Welsh Affairs

Chris Elmore Excerpts

Monday 19th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

I am quite surprised that the hon. Gentleman suggests that major investments such as that take place with such simplicity. They might have well have been thought of a number of years ago, but it takes a lot of hard negotiation to strike the final deal and gain a commitment to investment. We all recognise that global companies such as Toyota could take their investment almost anywhere, but it chose to bring it to the United Kingdom. I was in Japan just last August talking to Toyota about that investment, because of the ongoing influence it will have on any investment on Deeside. We have not yet won that for Deeside, but we are in a much stronger position because of Toyota’s commitment in Derbyshire.

I have also had the privilege of visiting Qatar and the US in recent months, to meet investors and seek to establish new relationships that will benefit Wales and the rest of the United Kingdom. The Welsh and UK Governments are developing a strong trading relationship with Qatar, and in six weeks the very first Doha to Cardiff flight will operate, making it far easier for investors from the region to trade in and with Wales.

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

Does the Secretary of State now accept that the Welsh Government were right to put in the investment to purchase Cardiff airport several years ago? Without that investment within his own constituency, Cardiff airport could have folded, because he simply was not interested.

[Alun Cairns]

I do not accept that statement. The ownership of the airport does not matter; it is the operation and management of the airport that is important. The hon. Gentleman will recognise that it is an independent, limited company, and it is important that the airport has the freedom to operate in the way it does. I am privileged to have the airport in my constituency, and I support it. In recent months, I have spoken to every managing director or chief executive involved to encourage and facilitate more flights to and from the airport, which is playing a part in contributing to its success. It has grown by 8%, but other airports across the country have grown by similar amounts because of the success of the UK economy.

Welsh businesses will be at the forefront of the UK’s biggest ever trade festival, which kicks off in Hong Kong later this week. I am determined to ensure a close working relationship between the Welsh Government, my office and the Department for International Trade on foreign direct investment and our export ambitions. This is what businesses and communities want. Last week, the Department for International Trade and I held workshops in my office in Cardiff bay to better understand the barriers to exporting and the opportunities in which each Government can play a part in supporting those ambitious companies. I will host a similar event in north Wales next week.

Certainty and continuity for businesses and communities are themes that we are extending to our approach to leaving the European Union. As Members will be aware, we have been working closely with the Welsh Government on the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill. Our initial approach was to retain all EU powers at UK level on a temporary basis to provide the certainty and security that the business community has called for, and we have committed to working with the devolved Administrations on how these powers will work and their onward transfer to the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Ireland Assemblies and Parliaments. However, having listened carefully to the concerns raised by the devolved Administrations, we have tabled an amendment to clause 11. The assumption is that the powers should be devolved, but with an order-making power to enable the UK Government, working with all the devolved Administrations, to legislate and to protect the UK common market. This will apply only in a limited number of areas and on a temporary basis. We have published analysis showing that we expect there to be only 24 areas of policy where we will need to discuss the possibility of legislative frameworks with the Welsh Government.

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[Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Opposition echo the Secretary of State’s comments about the sad passing of Lord Crickhowell and Lord Richard.

The St David’s day debate is now a firm fixture in the parliamentary calendar, as it provides a great opportunity to discuss the issues, challenges and priorities that matter to Wales. Even though this year we are debating these issues a little later than usual because snow stopped play on 1 March, today it will take more than the beast from the east to put us off our stride.

There is so much to celebrate about our great nation, but there are also many challenges and uncertainty against the backdrop of Brexit and the negative effects of austerity on so many Welsh communities and families. The challenging times make it more important than ever to have a strong shadow Wales team here in Westminster, working with Carwyn Jones and the Welsh Labour Government in Cardiff Bay. It remains a huge privilege to serve as shadow Secretary of State for Wales, supported by the tremendous team of my hon. Friends the Members for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) and for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi). We are all kept in line by my hon. Friend the Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden).

Serious matters confront us, and the people of Wales are watching. The people of Wales heard loud and clear the Government’s commitment to modernise and electrify the railways in our country. That included the main line between Cardiff and Swansea as well as the north Wales main line. The people of Wales will hold the Government to account for their failure to deliver.

The Opposition will continue to make the case to give the go-ahead to the Swansea bay tidal lagoon. That vital investment in Wales’s infrastructure would represent a step change in technology, provide hundreds of jobs and help equip Wales for 21st-century energy generation, as well as sending a strong signal of confidence throughout the Welsh economy. It is long past the time for the UK Government to work with the Welsh Government and match the latter’s commitment to that indispensable project.

The UK Government must recognise the folly of continuing to frustrate efforts to launch a major new domestic market for Welsh steel at a time when Donald Trump is slapping tariffs on exports. The pathfinder tidal lagoon requires around 100,000 tonnes of steel, much of which can be sourced in Wales with a clear commitment from the investors and businesses involved to buy Welsh.

The UK Tory Government continue blindly with their austerity agenda, while families and entire communities struggle to make ends meet. The Chancellor’s spring statement signalled simply more of the same. The Government’s failed prescription of austerity will deliver nothing except even slower economic growth, wage stagnation and even longer queues at food banks the length and breadth of Wales. It will deliver only further pressure on the NHS and social care, on our schools, our police services and right across the public sector. Those of us who believe in decent public services will continue to fight for the investment that they desperately need to serve us all.

Wales needs investment, as the whole UK needs investment, and the people of Wales will judge this Government harshly if they continue to fail to deliver it. As the date for Brexit looms ever closer, it becomes ever more urgent to take the necessary measures to protect Welsh industry and Welsh business. There is still no clarity for Welsh businesses on customs arrangements and no clear steer for Wales’s key exporters in the agriculture, aerospace and automotive sectors that rely so heavily on friction-free trade with our EU partners.

Wales’s close and indispensable economic ties to Ireland must be maintained. How will the UK Government deliver that? Thousands of jobs in Wales depend on clarity and on sensible agreements being reached. The clock is ticking. If the UK Government fail to deliver stability for Welsh industry post Brexit, the consequences could be nothing short of calamitous.

[Chris Elmore]

On stability in industry, the Secretary of State talked a lot about export and import within the UK market and with the EU. A concern is Ford in Bridgend, which neighbours my constituency, where a lot of the workforce live. Does my hon. Friend agree that, if we do not get stability post Brexit and are not inside a customs union at the very least, there would be a real risk of Ford pulling out of Bridgend, with the loss of thousands of jobs in the tributary system?

[Christina Rees]

I totally agree. As a former councillor on Bridgend County Borough Council, I have close ties with the factory and I fully understand my hon. Friend’s point.

Ports make a huge contribution to the Welsh economy, supporting around 11,000 jobs and providing an economic hub and trade gateway with Europe and the rest of the world. Indeed, 80% of goods carried in Irish-registered HGVs between the Republic of Ireland and Europe pass through Welsh ports. In 2016, 524,000 lorries passed through major Welsh ports to and from the Irish Republic. Ireland holds a key position in Welsh inward investment, with more than 50 Irish-owned companies in Wales employing 2,500 people.

Opposition Members will continue to speak up for Wales and for Welsh families, communities and businesses. We will continue to stand up for the devolution settlement itself. Twice the Welsh public have gone to the polls in referendums to shape their devolved Government, and they have set down the parameters on how the Government in Wales relate to the Government of the whole UK. It is not for any UK Government unilaterally to rewrite the rules of devolution—to attempt to power-grab and centralise functions set out in law and agreed through the ballot box—using Brexit as a cover for those actions. Opposition Members will stand up for Wales and for devolution.

The Welsh Labour Government have made it clear that they will not recommend that legislative consent is given to the UK Government’s proposals while they impose unacceptable constraints on current devolved powers, which remain unworkable in practice.

The Welsh Labour Government also made it clear that, in the event of the UK Government failing to bring forward satisfactory amendments, they will introduce their own legislation to provide legal continuity in Wales for EU-derived legislation relating to devolved competences.

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[David T. C. Davies]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that we were paying about £18 billion a year to be a member of the European Union. Even if the £39 billion Brexit divorce bill figure is correct—I am prepared to accept that it is—it represents about two years’ membership of the European Union. If that is the price that we have to pay for a good deal, and if other Members support it, I am willing to support it as well. I would probably be willing to walk away and, effectively, say “Get stuffed”, but I am a man who likes to work with other people, and if I can encourage other Members to get behind the Government and compromise a little bit, I am all for doing that.



Let me now return to education for a minute. I think it very important for members of the Welsh Affairs Committee, and Welsh MPs in general, to consider the state of education in Wales. We often hear comparisons between the Welsh and the English national health services, but I do not think we hear enough comparisons between the Welsh and the English education systems. I want to know why my children, who attend state schools in Wales, have less chance statistically of getting good GCSE results and A-level results, less chance of getting into the best universities, and less chance of getting first-class degrees, and I want to know whether Labour Members agree with the judgment of the former Labour Education Minister in Wales who announced that it was time for the Labour Government in Wales to apologise to learners and parents for the mess that they had made of education.

[Chris Elmore]

I think I have raised this issue with the hon. Gentleman before. When his own county’s education services were put into special measures while being run by a Conservative administration, he said nothing. I will tell him what is good about the Welsh education system: record investment in school buildings, record GCSE results, record A-level results, and some of the best universities in the United Kingdom, if not the world.

The hon. Gentleman is doing a great disservice to the people of Wales and the people of Monmouth. He needs to get his facts straight rather than making misleading statements on the Floor of the House.

[David T. C. Davies]

I am certainly not doing—

[Chris Elmore]

I got carried away, Mr Deputy Speaker. I apologise, and I withdraw those words.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Thank you very much.

[David T. C. Davies]

I welcome the fact that everyone feels passionately about this issue, but I suggest that the hon. Gentleman look at what his own Labour Education Minister is saying about Labour’s education record in Wales.

[Chris Elmore]

rose—

[David T. C. Davies]

I have been given only 10 minutes, and I would like to move on to the subject of Brexit, which, after all, is a matter of some interest to all of us at the moment.

I commend my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union for the enormous amount of extra power that he will give the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament, although, if I were anything less than a man who likes compromise, I would be slightly worried about it. I was on the losing side of a referendum in 1999. I remember what it was like to wake up the next day and realise that we had lost, and to have a great discussion about what to do next. What we decided to do was respect the fact that the people of Wales had voted for a Welsh Assembly, albeit by a very narrow majority, and with a much smaller turnout than the one that we saw for the Brexit referendum. We in the Conservative party decided—and I think that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales was among the people who were thinking about this—that the thing to do was simply to respect the decision and get on with it.

We did not say, “Well, there was only a small turnout and a tiny majority, so let us have a second referendum.” We did not say, “Let us see if we can find some dubious hedge fund managers and challenge the whole thing in the courts on a technicality.” We did not go off to the House of Lords and say, “Let us see if we can delay the whole thing”, or whip up a load of scare stories about what it was likely to do to the economy—although I must admit that the scare stories that remainers are coming out with are not particularly good. One minute they say that Brexit will crash the economy, and the next minute they are complaining that there will not be enough people to fill the thousands of job vacancies that are currently available as a result of the good handling of the economy by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State.

We did not do any of that. We recognised the fact that the people of Wales had voted in a certain direction, and we respected that. We respected devolution and we respect it now, and we respect the voice of the Welsh public, who voted overwhelmingly to leave the European Union. I commend my right hon. Friend and the Government for listening to the people of Wales. Ours is the only political party that is willing to deliver the Brexit for which those people voted.

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[Jo Stevens]

I thoroughly endorse what my hon. Friend has said. We know that when such incidents happen in Cardiff, which, sadly, they do from time to time, the whole community turns out in support of our fight against them.

When I walk through Cardiff Central, past the neoclassical buildings of Cathays Park or the modern, striking architecture of the University of South Wales, or Cardiff Met, I see those buildings as a striking reminder that our universities represent both our openness to ideas and our promise to future generations. The way in which we value and treat our universities and those who work and study in them says a lot about our progress on those fronts.

Topically, the last month has seen the biggest ever industrial action undertaken by the University and College Union in defence of the university superannuation scheme and against proposals by Universities UK to change it. The changes would mean a reduction of £10,000 a year in the pension of the average university academic. Cardiff University UCU members voted overwhelmingly to take industrial action, easily seeing off the restrictions in the Government’s mendacious Trade Union Act 2016. Cardiff UCU, through a very effective campaign and with a perfectly reasonable and justifiable case, has seen its vice-chancellor—who is also the head of Universities Wales—eventually peel away from the hard core of vice-chancellors who were opposing any return to the negotiating table and a fresh, independent look at the pension fund valuation that had been undertaken by Universities UK.

The dispute that has hit Cardiff University is a consequence of the Government’s marketisation of higher education. In the Government’s rush to ensure that universities are run like private businesses, lifting the cap on tuition fees and treating students as customers, the balance sheet has become king. It is the balance sheet that will allow vast borrowing to expand campuses and capacity, and, as we have seen in the private sector, employees’ pensions are always an easy target for those trying to smarten up their balance sheet. But what is the point of a glossy prospectus and a shiny new building if we cannot attract the best people to teach and do research there? As if Brexit was not enough of an unnecessary threat, we do not need to turn the brightest minds away from a career in our universities in Wales teaching the next generation of engineers, doctors, teachers, business leaders, and, yes, maybe even politicians, by making those careers less attractive through slashing pensions. As Anthony Forster, vice-chancellor of Essex University, has said:

“university employers must step up to the plate and commit to increasing employer contributions to the scheme…Principled compromise is the answer.”

Going back to the issue of how we value and treat our universities in Wales and those who work and study in them, Government higher education policy says a lot about their attitude to young people in Wales. In 2010 the Tory-Lib Dem coalition Government made clear what future they had in mind for the next generation when they saddled young people with tuition fees of £9,000 a year, and this was made clearer when the current Government replaced maintenance grants with loans. While preaching the virtue of paying down the national debt, claiming this was for their benefit, the UK Government devised a system whereby the average graduate would be £50,800 in debt and the poorest graduate an average of £57,000 in debt. The bankruptcy of this system can now be seen in the Prime Minister’s own pledge to freeze tuition fee rises and hold a review.

We should contrast this with the approach of the Welsh Labour Government, who have looked to keep maintenance grants at every stage of further education, from college to the end of university. They have also kept NHS bursaries in Wales, unlike the Government here. Labour’s policy has been to ensure that the playing field is kept as even as possible, as opposed to piling the greatest debt on the poorest students.

While the Welsh Labour Government have not been able to rein in fee rises indefinitely, they have ensured that for almost a decade Welsh students have graduated with significantly less debt than their English counterparts, and they will continue to do so.

[Chris Elmore]

My hon. Friend is making a passionate and well-informed speech. The Welsh Government have also worked with students, including NUS Wales, to get to where we are now with this new programme for students. That is important and shows a clear contrast between how the British and Welsh Governments work.

[Jo Stevens]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and that permeates much of what the Welsh Labour Government do, such as working through the social partnership with trade unions in Wales on public services and with the NUS in Wales on education.

All of this matters because, although Cardiff has three excellent universities, it also has postcodes and catchment areas that contain some of the highest levels of poverty in Wales. No child, wherever they live in the United Kingdom, should ever have their aspirations of obtaining a university degree curtailed because of the frightening burden of debt. With the Institute for Fiscal Studies reckoning that three quarters of our graduates will never pay off their student loan, it is clear we need to end this system which is loading our children’s future into a Ponzi scheme.

The Government’s approach to higher education also says a lot about our openness to new ideas and new people. It is vital that the Government listen to the concerns of universities and students, rather than dismiss them. Universities and their global connections and collaborations are vital to our knowledge economy. A recent report by the London School of Economics found that Cardiff University alone contributes £3 billion to the UK economy per year, and every year international students at Cardiff University generate over £200 million for Cardiff’s local economy. Welcoming people from all over the world has long been an integral part of our successful higher education sector, yet our exit from the European Union threatens to compromise that.

For all the Government’s words, everyone knows that immigration policy is being dictated by what looks good on the front page of the Daily Express or Daily Mail rather than the good of the country. The Government say that they remain committed to the UK, and by extension Wales, being as “open as before,” yet that contrasts with their own stated aim of reducing net immigration to “tens of thousands,” which, unless they are planning on encouraging mass emigration, will necessitate a large drop in the number of international students.

The Government’s approach to Brexit and the Brexit negotiations have been at best confused and at worst downright hostile. It is already having a detrimental effect on our higher education sector, with a fall in applications to UCAS from EU students. If the Government are serious about the UK still being open to new people, they need to recognise the overwhelming view of the public and drop international students from their immigration targets. They also need to explain to us and to the Welsh Government how they are going to ensure that academic institutions in Wales and across the UK can still easily attract and recruit EU academics after Brexit.

Literally every week constituents come to my advice surgeries to ask whether they will be able to live, work and travel in and around Europe as they do now. I cannot answer those questions but it seems that I am in good company, because pretty much every time I ask the Secretary of State for Wales or his Minister, they cannot answer either. In the last four months, I have asked the Secretary of State eight times whether he can identify and name any specific advantages or opportunities for Wales of leaving the EU, and he has not yet given me a single specific, tangible example—and I have not heard any in today’s debate either. With our exit less than a year away, this is ridiculous.

By contrast, students and academics in Cardiff have been regularly and forcefully telling me how Brexit is harming the horizons of higher education in Wales. Cardiff University is currently part of over 50 Horizon 2020 schemes, and the EU remains a significant investor in Welsh higher education. This funding and the jobs it supports could easily be lost in the car-crash Brexit that some members of the Government are pushing for.

Welsh students are currently able to enjoy the advantages of the Erasmus+ scheme along with students from non-EU countries such as Norway and Iceland. While the Government have in principle committed to paying into EU programmes, the lack of detail on this front is deeply concerning. We need clarity now that the Government have contingency plans in place for alternative sources of large-scale credit and funding from which our universities have often benefited.

We often speak about duty in this House: we talk about our duty to our constituents and our duty to our country, but surely both those duties are not just in the here and now, but encompass the future, too.