Welsh Affairs

Albert Owen Excerpts

Monday 19th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

The reason for using the word “temporary” is that we want to bring in order-making powers for 24 areas of law to use them to protect the UK market until we have reached a position of agreement with the devolved Administrations on how we will enact legislation to put in place frameworks on those areas of law. In each and every one of the areas, we will, as we progress through the 24 areas, use the Sewel convention. This demonstrates the pragmatic, positive process we are pursuing. I could easily give some simple, practical examples of why this is important, but Wales has certainly more to gain than it has to lose. I have highlighted the fact that 80% of Welsh output goes to the rest of the UK, and that undermines—sorry, underlines; let me clarify that this underlines—the importance of doing the right thing on these 24 areas of law, because one part of the United Kingdom should not be given the power to hold up every other part.

Much attention is understandably given to the EU market, but the UK market is central to the success of the Welsh economy, and we must recognise the importance of the UK market to investment and jobs. As I have mentioned, 80% of Welsh output goes to the rest of the United Kingdom, so protecting the internal UK market will protect jobs and investment in Wales and across the UK. Where these limited common frameworks are needed or indeed essential, we will continue to apply the principles of the Sewel convention, seeking the support of the devolved Administration at every stage. This is an entirely reasonable proposition, and follows the foundations on which devolution has been established since 1999. I hope that the Welsh Government and Labour Members will recognise that we have moved a considerable way on this, and will see the importance of providing as much certainty and continuity as possible for businesses in Wales. We will continue to work closely with the Welsh Government to secure their agreement to promote a positive recommendation on a legislative consent motion in the Assembly.

Advice on the 24 areas, as well as on the others that we do not want to be subject to an order-making power, has come from industry itself. An expert panel was established, and businesses have raised genuine concerns about their UK prospects being undermined. Industry has advised us all the way along, and that is how we have ended up with these 24 areas. Any action to scupper that will be undermining—genuinely undermining —industry and business, as well as investment prospects, in Wales.

Agriculture is a key area of the Welsh economy and central to our way of life across Wales. Last summer, I hosted the Environment Secretary at the Royal Welsh show where, in one his first official engagements, he met the Farmers Unions of Wales, the National Farmers Union Cymru, the Country Land and Business Association and other key stakeholders, as well as my hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Chris Davies), who was working at the show that day. Our engagement with them has continued since then, with all of them having regular access to UK Government Ministers and officials. Most recently, the farming Minister—the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, my hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice)—met a group of representatives at the Royal Welsh agricultural showground to discuss our exit from the EU, but also to talk about longer-term plans for the UK’s environment and agriculture sectors.

At many of those meetings, if not all, geographical indicators have been raised, because we all recognise the importance of labelling, marketing and branding our produce. A moment ago, I talked about clause 11 and frameworks. This is a good example of why a UK approach is needed to protect the interests of producers and consumers. We obviously need common regulations on food labelling across the UK because we rightly want to protect the status of Welsh lamb, Welsh beef, Halen Môn and many other brands, so that they are recognised and protected across the UK and beyond. That does not mean, as has been suggested, a one-size-fits-all approach to branding. We are committed to protecting all 84 of the registered geographical indicators now and after EU exit.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State makes an important point about what the UK wants. Has he had discussions with European Ministers or Commissioners about what they will allow in respect of such branding in the future? Many brands, including Halen Môn in my constituency which he mentioned, are very concerned about this issue.

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important point. Like me, he highlighted Halen Môn, which has gained significantly from its geographical indicator brand. He will recognise that these issues are subject to negotiations. I expect our discussions with the European Union to take place on a positive footing, but of course we cannot pre-empt anything.

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[David T. C. Davies]

I look forward to seeing whether those predictions are any more accurate than the many other predictions that have been proved completely inaccurate since the referendum.

Let me return to matters that we are not allowed to discuss in the Welsh Affairs Committee. I should very much like to have the right to discuss education, for instance.

[Albert Owen]

The hon. Gentleman is right: his own party’s Government have now put aside an extra £39 billion for the Brexit divorce bill. Did he advertise that fact when he was campaigning for us to leave the European Union?

[David T. C. Davies]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that we were paying about £18 billion a year to be a member of the European Union. Even if the £39 billion Brexit divorce bill figure is correct—I am prepared to accept that it is—it represents about two years’ membership of the European Union. If that is the price that we have to pay for a good deal, and if other Members support it, I am willing to support it as well. I would probably be willing to walk away and, effectively, say “Get stuffed”, but I am a man who likes to work with other people, and if I can encourage other Members to get behind the Government and compromise a little bit, I am all for doing that.



Let me now return to education for a minute. I think it very important for members of the Welsh Affairs Committee, and Welsh MPs in general, to consider the state of education in Wales. We often hear comparisons between the Welsh and the English national health services, but I do not think we hear enough comparisons between the Welsh and the English education systems. I want to know why my children, who attend state schools in Wales, have less chance statistically of getting good GCSE results and A-level results, less chance of getting into the best universities, and less chance of getting first-class degrees, and I want to know whether Labour Members agree with the judgment of the former Labour Education Minister in Wales who announced that it was time for the Labour Government in Wales to apologise to learners and parents for the mess that they had made of education.

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[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies), who talks a lot of sense in a very consensual way. I know that he is a strong supporter of devolution and that he has worked with Members from across the parties here in Westminster and in Wales to make it happen. I want to join him and the Secretary of State in paying tribute to Lord Crickhowell and to Lord Richard, both of whom died recently. I have lobbied both of those guys, and I did not agree with some of the things that they did, but they listened to me. They did not always deliver, but they were true servants of the Welsh people in their respective roles.

I also want to join the Secretary of State in thanking the Backbench Business Committee for allowing us our original debate on Thursday 1 March, which was co-sponsored by the hon. Members for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies) and for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts). We did not have the debate on that day, however. It was put off because of Storm Emma, which had a devastating effect on Wales. In my own constituency, huge storms ripped apart the harbour in Holyhead and caused untold damage to 80 vessels. The cruel sea really was cruel on that occasion. I am sure that the House will join me in paying tribute to the emergency services for the work that they did during Storm Emma. They dealt with snowdrifts and high winds in my constituency, and the coastguard and lifeboat services were also involved. I declare an interest as vice-president of the Royal National Lifeboat Institution. The emergency services went out and took staff to the hospitals as well as delivering essential medication and care to people in rural constituencies, and that is worth putting on record.

We are celebrating 100 years since the Representation of the People Act 1918, and I want to put on record the work that the suffragettes from Wales did in getting the vote for women. The first woman MP to be elected in Wales, in 1929, was Megan Lloyd George, in my own constituency. That showed the pioneering spirit of the county of Anglesey, which has also been seen in the field of education. Megan Lloyd George was the first Member of the House of Commons to lead a Welsh affairs debate, in the 1940s. She is historically important in that way.

Since we last met for a Welsh affairs debate in the House of Commons, we have had a general election, and there is a Welsh dimension to that, because the Prime Minister went for a walk in the hills of north Wales and thought that it was a very good idea to have a general election. We called it the hard Brexit general election, because she was seeking a mandate and an increased majority in the House, but the people of Wales and the people of the United Kingdom took away her majority.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

Does the hon. Gentleman recall the story about sleeping on the slopes of Cadair Idris? It goes that one will awake either inspired or mad.

[Albert Owen]

I will take the hon. Lady’s word for it. However, I will say that the Prime Minister had told the House on several occasions that she was not going to hold a general election, but she did. She said that she wanted to put her trust in the people of the United Kingdom, and they voted overwhelmingly against a hard Brexit.

Before moving on to Brexit, particularly the links with the Republic of Ireland, I am sure that the House will join me in congratulating the island of Ireland on winning the grand slam this weekend, Wales for being the runners-up and a third Celtic nation on coming third. Eddie Jones’s smirk was wiped off his face.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The hon. Gentleman prompted me to intervene at this point. I wish everyone a belated happy St Patrick’s day for Saturday. We know that when the Blarney stone is turned the right way, we will have the opportunity for good weather, and we had a great victory on Saturday as well. The Irish team do their talking on the pitch, unlike the England rugby coach, who does his talking—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Mr Shannon, I am the most lenient at letting you in, but I think the world already knows about the Irish team and how successful they were. We do not need it to be echoed again.

[Albert Owen]

I am glad to hear the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) supporting the united Ireland in its grand slam victory.

I want to talk about our historic links with the Republic of Ireland. Dublin is the nearest capital city to my constituency, and we have had trade for many decades—hundreds of years—between the Republic of Ireland and Wales. Much of that will be put in jeopardy if we do not get the Brexit deal right. We need a special arrangement, and I am appealing to the Secretary of State because he has been to my constituency to see the port of Holyhead and the problems that could occur. It is no good his repeating what the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union says about a frictionless border, which is meaningless. We need proper policies and partnerships, because Irish firms are already doing direct trade and are proposing further direct trade between the Republic of Ireland and continental Europe, bypassing the ports of Wales, Scotland and Ireland, so we need a special relationship.

We have a common travel area with the Republic of Ireland, and the Prime Minister has told me on several occasions that it would continue, but the reality is that it was set up based on our historical links and formed part of our special relationship when we were both in the European Union—we joined at the very same time. Now that the UK has decided to leave the European Union, that puts strain on the relationship. Unless we have a customs union of sorts—an arrangement or agreement—it will be impossible not to have tariffs and barriers at Welsh ports. The reality is that jobs will be lost in those ports. Holyhead and Fishguard are also railway towns, and they rely on the trade that comes from Ireland, so if we lose that vital link due to high tariffs, people will go elsewhere and jobs will be lost. It is hugely important that the Secretary of State listens to what the people of Wales, the Welsh Government and what many Welsh Members are saying. It is no good repeating the mantra of frictionless trade; we need practical things. The Irish Government want to see practical arrangements, as do Members of this House.

Turning to the Welsh economy, I agree with the right hon. Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones) when he talked about the north Wales growth deal. I am as frustrated as he and my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (David Hanson) are, because we have been told for a long time that the process will be bottom-up. Now is the time to shape that growth deal and to deliver on those arrangements. I want north-west Wales and the rest of north Wales to benefit. We need to put pressure on the Treasury to come up with a figure that can match the deals that are coming up from the local level to deliver jobs and prosperity in north Wales.

Time is limited, but I want to talk briefly again about the low-carbon economy and how Wales and north Wales can benefit and lead in this area. There are two marine energy projects in my constituency, and I know that the Secretary of State for Wales and the other Secretaries of State are aware of them. They need a kick-start, and the Welsh Government and the European social fund are providing the essential investment. Minesto, a Swedish company, is investing in my constituency, and Morlais, a local social enterprise, is working to develop marine and tidal energy.

New nuclear is on its way, and I congratulate the Secretary of State and his predecessor, the right hon. Member for Clwyd West, on the continuity they have provided in that project, which started in 2007 to 2009, because we could be world leaders in the low-carbon economy.

Like many Members, I again want to raise the issue of the Swansea bay tidal lagoon, because it is not good enough for the Government to keep saying, “We want value for money.” Of course we want that, but we also want ambition from this Government. They talk about an industrial strategy for the whole UK, and they now have to put their money where their mouth is. If they want Wales to prosper, they will find that Wales has an on-the-shelf project that can be rolled out across the whole of Wales in tidal lagoon technology. It will benefit the steel industry in Wales, and the supply chain in Wales and across the UK. We can be that first of a kind. Yes, first of a kinds are expensive, but if we had not invested in other first-of-a-kind technologies, we would never have anything in this country. It is time this industrial strategy came to life.

I want to finish by saying a few things more. I wish this debate had been held on 1 March, and I want to carry on campaigning for a public holiday—a bank holiday—on St David’s day. This was in our manifesto. If the Prime Minister decides to go for another walk in north Wales, I am sure we will have that opportunity to deliver a public holiday. The people of Wales are unique, but we are proud members of the United Kingdom, an equal nation—we are a nation and a proud one. When we come to this next year, as the biggest party in Wales, we will get another debate—we hope it will again be in Government time, not in Back-Bench time—because the people and the Members of this House of Commons from Wales deserve it.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

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[Stuart Andrew]

Of course.

My right hon. Friend touched on some remarkable points in his opening statement and how significant they are for Wales. In just under two weeks, we will see the new devolution settlement come into force in Wales on the same day that Wales puts in place its first devolved taxes, as we provided for in the Wales Act 2014. Not only are we transferring powers to the Welsh Government, but the Budget announced significant fair funding for the Assembly.

Many subjects have been discussed during this debate, including Brexit, transport, growth deals, universal credit, the rural economy, broadband, the NHS, the tidal lagoon, energy, universities, steel, and local organisations such as Rotary and the Royal National Lifeboat Institution. There was also mention of bigotry, and let me say clearly from the Dispatch Box that I am proud that I have tried to fight bigotry wherever I can, and I will always stand up for people who are facing discrimination. It is important to recognise, though, that not everybody is bigoted towards the Welsh. At the weekend, I was in my local pub, where most of my friends are English. Everyone has a nickname in the pub, and one of my friends, Mucker, had the grace to shake my hand and congratulate Wales on their strong performance. There is lots of support for us out there.

Turning to the growth deals, the whole point is that we are trying to rebalance the economy. We have heard lots about doing that today, but that is what the growth deals are all about. We need local involvement, because local people, local businesses and local authorities know their areas best and know the uniqueness of the local economies. That is why we are keen to deliver the deals. We already have the £1.2 billion scheme for Cardiff and the £1.3 billion scheme for Swansea, and I am taking a personal interest in the north Wales scheme. In fact, my first official visit after my appointment was to meet the leaders of the north Wales growth deal to show them that I am absolutely committed to ensuring that we deliver for north Wales. I am acutely aware of the concerns that north-west Wales should not lose out to the more industrial north-east Wales, and I am keen that the growth deal recognises every single part of north Wales and the contribution that it can make to growing the local economy.

Lord Bourne was in Aberystwyth last Friday to start the discussions on the growth deal in mid-Wales. The hon. Member for Ceredigion (Ben Lake) made some important points and is a doughty campaigner on broadband. We are investing money to ensure we get broadband connectivity and we introduced the universal service obligation to try to guarantee that every household has the right to request a minimum broadband speed. We will do everything we can on that, and I hope it may well feature in the emerging growth deal that comes forward.

[Albert Owen]

The Minister will be aware that the roll-out in Wales has been undertaken by BT, along with Welsh Government, UK Government and European Union support. Can he guarantee that if we leave the EU, the UK Government will make up the shortfall, so that we can have full coverage across the whole of Wales?

[Stuart Andrew]

As I just mentioned, the USO that we put in place seeks to achieve that before we even reach the point the hon. Gentleman mentions. We are committed to delivering it because we recognise its importance.

I also want to address the cross-border issue, because it is important. We have already shown that we are keen on making sure that we maximise the cross- border potential we have. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State held a summit in south Wales not so long ago, and the fact that the tolls are going from the Severn bridge will be a huge transformational project in terms of encouraging that cross-border activity. As the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) mentioned, the area is already starting to see some of the benefits, although I know there will be challenges, too. I was pleased to meet my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones) and other members of the all-party group on Mersey Dee North Wales to hear how we can make that cross-border connectivity even more effective in building the economy in north Wales.

We also talked about steel, and I know that many Members rightly have concerns about that. I assure them that the Secretary of State for Wales has spoken recently to the UK trade commissioner to the US to get an update on the latest developments, has met the US ambassador to the UK, has written to the First Minister to update him on the situation and is acutely aware of the issues being faced. The Government have been clear that tariffs are not the right way to address the global problem of overcapacity—a multilateral solution is needed. We will continue to work with EU partners to consider the scope here and the work that will be needed to protect the steel industry as much as possible.

Energy was another issue raised, and I know the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) has worked very hard on getting my home island to become a great area for investment in energy. I certainly look forward to working with him in the future. We also heard a discussion on universal credit. I know that there have been issues with it as it has been rolled out, but that is why we have been taking time to roll it out, and to listen and make alterations to it. The old system meant that if someone worked a minute over 16 hours they would lose so much benefit, and that was not a good incentive. We are continuing to monitor this to make sure we get it absolutely right.

International Women’s Day received a number of mentions, including from the hon. Member for Ynys Môn, who referred to Megan Lloyd George, a former Member of this House. I also pay tribute to the 93-year-old constituent of the hon. Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds) who is serving as a mayor. There is hope for us all yet that perhaps our political careers can carry on long into old age, even for those, like me, who have a very marginal seat.

This has been a great debate, and I am grateful to all Members, from all parts of the House, for the contributions they have made. It is a good testament to the passion we all have for Wales. I know there has been criticism from some Members that Conservative Members do not care about Wales, but I can tell them that we fight day in, day out for Wales. We are passionate about its success. This is why we are all working hard for it, in every level of government here in Westminster, and we will continue to do so, for as long as I am in this role.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered Welsh Affairs.