Ford in Bridgend

Albert Owen Excerpts

Monday 10th June 2019 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

Steven Armstrong, the head of Ford Europe, explicitly said:

“It’s important that we get the agreement ratified that’s on the table at the moment.”

I was happy to vote for that agreement. Was the hon. Gentleman?

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

I join the Secretary of State in praising the Welsh Government and the trade unions for the tone they set over the weekend. My thoughts are with the families.

The Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee has looked into Brexit and the effect it will have on the manufacturing sector. The automotive sector was very clear that the current deal suits it and that no deal would be an absolute disaster. The Secretary of State has a responsibility today, in making this statement, to give assurances to the Welsh workforce that he will rule out no deal. Will he tell his favoured candidate that that is what the ultimate representatives are saying? Let him not ignore them.

Can we have an industrial strategy that is nimble enough to help those affected by these closures, liquidations and, yes, suspensions, which are becoming a trend?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman points to the statements from the motor manufacturing sector that the current deal suits the sector.

[Albert Owen]

The current deal with Europe.

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman talks about remaining in Europe, but the sector strongly supports the deal that the Prime Minister negotiated with the European Commission. The Government and I responded positively to the sector’s statements. Perhaps he should have also supported the sector and responded to it at that time, too.

St David’s Day

Albert Owen Excerpts

Thursday 28th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[David T. C. Davies]

In fact, the hon. Member for Newport East was a member of the Welsh Affairs Committee when that first report was produced some nine years ago, and I think that it was at her instigation that the abolition went ahead. I pay full tribute to her for that.

As I was saying, the advantages that will accrue from the abolition of the tolls will be greatly increased if the Welsh Government now get on with building the M4 relief road. I know that was the policy—or it certainly seemed to be—of the Labour Government in the Welsh Assembly, and I am sure the Government here will want to support them in that.

To be slightly more parochial, the booming south Wales economy, for which my colleagues in government can take much of the credit, has meant that there is a demand for housing in south-east Wales, which is causing further problems. I hope Ministers will be doing everything possible to get the local authorities together to build the Chepstow bypass, which is also urgently needed.

The Select Committee on Welsh Affairs obviously cannot do much in the way of culture, media and sport, which is a devolved matter, but there are areas where we can offer support, not least in cheering on the national side as we all did on Saturday, but on S4C too. We have produced numerous reports to try to ensure that there are no threats to S4C’s budget.

I am also delighted that the Select Committee now enables anyone who wishes to do so to give evidence in Welsh. Debates can also now be held in Welsh in the Welsh Grand Committee, and I do not see why this cannot be extended further. I know that many Committee members would be quite supportive of it. There is no technical reason why we could not have debates on Welsh matters in Westminster Hall in Welsh, and I do not think there is any technological reason why a St David’s Day debate in this very Chamber could not also be held in the medium of Welsh. Perhaps we could look at that over the next few years.

We have looked on many occasions at the issue of powers for the Welsh Assembly. I was on the losing side of a referendum: I campaigned against the Welsh Assembly but quickly realised it would be utterly wrong to stand in the way of something the people of Wales had voted for. That is why I am glad the Conservative party, rather than trying to overturn the result of that referendum in 1997, embraced it and realised we would simply have to go along with what the Welsh people wanted, because that is democracy.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman must then be very upset that the Prime Minister in 1997, after the referendum, voted against the Government of Wales Act.

--- Later in debate ---

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure, as always, to speak in this debate and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi) on securing it. I have to say to Government Front Benchers that, after last year’s example of the Government taking the lead, I thought that we would be returning to where we were for many years, with the Government taking Wales day seriously and Welsh issues seriously, so that we would not have to make a bid to the Backbench Business Committee.

I want to say—as many have in the last few days; I make no apologies for saying it now—how great the victory on Saturday was by Wales against England in rugby. It united the country of Wales in a way we have not seen for a long time. The tactics were perfect; I wish the Prime Minister would act more like Warren Gatling than Eddie Jones when it comes to Brexit and mind games, and actually deliver.

[Kevin Brennan]

My hon. Friend is right; that victory did unite the country. Does he wonder, as I do, whether it united the Ministers in the Wales Office? It would be interesting to know who the Under-Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams), was supporting last Saturday.

[Albert Owen]

I will give Ministers the opportunity to speak for themselves, but I have had compliments from both of them on the way Wales played on Saturday; it absolutely united them.

I want to talk about energy, the north Wales economy and indeed Brexit, but I want to start by paying tribute to my late good friend Paul Flynn. As chairman of the Welsh parliamentary Labour party, I officially send our condolences to Sam and her family, and their friends from the Newport area, many of whom I know and who have told me great stories. Paul was a unique man; he was a great campaigner, as many people have said. I remember my other great late friend Rhodri Morgan—he was also of the class of ’87—saying to me, “If you haven’t had an argument with Paul, you’ve never really known Paul.” That was his nature; he was very astute at putting his arguments and not afraid to hold to his opinions. Those are my memories of Paul, and I will miss him very dearly.

The Secretary of State and others on the Treasury Bench will know that I have taken an interest in energy for many years, and I have taken this subject up because I believe that Wales has the great potential to be a world leader in the low-carbon economy and to lead the way on many projects. When I talk about a mixed rich energy diversity I am talking about renewables, nuclear and also energy efficiency. The innovation can come from Wales; we have a skill base there, we have natural resources and we have the potential to be a world leader.

I have written a booklet—you may have a copy after this debate, Madam Deputy Speaker—on resetting the energy button, because over the last few years we have not focused attention as we should. Prior to 2009 there was a great consensus across the House on a way forward and how we would reduce carbon emissions. I accept that the great world recession had an impact on that, but there has been disjointed policy from the UK Government since then. We have had reform Bills—electricity reform, market reform, retail reform—but we have not had a coherent policy. Wales is suffering as a consequence of that, because many major projects were earmarked for Wales, with lots of time and effort from the private sector, the Welsh Government and the UK Government, yet the end product has not materialised as it should have.

I have argued for many years that we need a proper formula, particularly for first-of-a-kind energy projects, for example in marine technology, because the auction system—the contracts for difference—that the Government have put in place does not help new forms of technology break through. We have great tidal resources around the coast of the UK and Wales—the west coast has some of the best tidal resources—and we need to work together to make things happen.

The Secretary of State has been very good with me in recent weeks and we are working together to get a new formula, but now we want not only a formula but an action plan. We want to be able to deliver on these projects, because we need to get the carbon emissions down and to meet our targets. We will not do that by prevaricating or by blaming the private sector for its financing. We need proper Government investment, in financial as well as policy terms. We should not leave this to the auctions; we need coherent planning.

I also want to talk about the job losses that we have seen in north Wales in recent times. I mentioned this yesterday, and I am grateful for the response that I received from the Under-Secretary of State for Wales, the hon. Member for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams). Rahau Plastics in my constituency town of Amlwch is going through a consultation programme and could lose 104 jobs. It is an international company. It is a family company that is based predominantly in Bavaria, but it has global reach. It has been in Amlwch for 40 years, but it is consolidating the work that is done at that plant in central Europe.

There is a pattern developing, whereby international companies that have their bases across continental Europe and the United Kingdom are consolidating their workforces and their businesses in the European Union, because they know that the single market delivers. They are very polite about it and say that this is not simply down to Brexit, but I say to the Secretary of State that we cannot have companies based in countries such as Japan, which have direct agreements with the European Union, pulling out of Britain like this. Our workforce, our commitment and our end product are all good, but there is a fault, and that fault is the uncertainty of Brexit, pure and simple.

I want to move on to the North Wales growth bid. I congratulate the Secretary of State on working with the Welsh Government and local government on this important issue, but I want to say to him directly that there should be greater input by north Wales MPs. Simply leaving it to the councils is not good enough, because their resources are being cut and they have different responsibilities. As north Wales MPs, we have a strong mandate here and we want to work with the Treasury, the Government, the Welsh Government and local government to make this deal happen. This is not about being top-down; it is about working in partnership to deliver for the people of north Wales.

Following the suspension of the Wylfa Newydd power station, many of the projects are now in jeopardy. The Secretary of State and the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy are joining us for a meeting next week to discuss this. It is hugely important that the gap created by the suspension of that £20 billion project should be filled. It could be filled with quality jobs in renewable energy, in improving our rail infrastructure and in many more projects. I want to work with the Secretary of State in focusing on that, but I want a commitment from him that he will fight our corner in Whitehall and that we will get more money as a consequence of that suspended project. The private investment that has been lost needs to be topped up, and that could be done through the mechanism of the North Wales growth bid. The Welsh Economy and Transport Minister, Ken Skates, has said that he would match any moneys that come from the United Kingdom Government. We want to see action from this Government, not just warm words.

I understand the time constraint on this debate, but I want to mention Brexit very briefly. I have been arguing in this House for more than two years about the Irish dimension to Brexit and its effect on the port at Holyhead. The former Secretary of State just said, “Don’t worry, it will be simple”, but we are coming up to the eleventh hour and we are still arguing about the Irish backstop. If we treat one part of the United Kingdom—that is, Northern Ireland—differently and allow it to have alignment with the single market and the customs union, that will have an impact on Welsh ports as well as on ports in Scotland and England. Those countries will lose out as a consequence.

I want this message to go out from Wales to the Prime Minister: look at what is happening in Wales, listen to the Welsh Assembly and to Welsh MPs, do not be blinkered and do not pander to one side of your party. Start speaking up for Wales, because it is an integral part of the United Kingdom. We are pioneers and leaders, and I am proud to speak in this debate.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

--- Later in debate ---

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi) for securing this debate, and for the support of the Backbench Business Committee in making time available for it. It has been a wide-ranging debate, as was pointed out by the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Neath (Christina Rees). Unfortunately, I will not have time in the time permitted to respond to each and every point made, but if I do not have the opportunity to respond to them, I will happily continue to engage positively with colleagues in all parts of the House on the issues they have raised.

Among some disagreements, there has without doubt been unity and lots of agreement on a number of issues, but I want to underline the comments by every Member of this House about our friend and former colleague Paul Flynn, the past Member for Newport West. I had the privilege of knowing him before I was elected to this House, and I remember that he was particularly supportive of me at a difficult time. My hon. Friend the Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies) pointed out his exceptional constituency work, and I can speak about that from experience because my parents-in-law live in his constituency. As I mentioned yesterday, I think there is a significant gap on the Labour Benches, and Paul will be missed. We pay tribute to him, and we pay our respects to his family.

I would also underline the comments that have been made about Steffan Lewis, the former Plaid Cymru Assembly Member. Without doubt, he was an exceptionally bright talent. He had a significant influence in his short political career, and I think Wales will miss him and the influence he brought to bear during that time.

The rugby also brought significant agreement across the House. As my right hon. Friends the Members for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb) and for Clwyd West (Mr Jones) pointed out, it is a great time to be Welsh, particularly in relation to the rugby that took place at the weekend.

Listening to this wide-ranging debate, it is hard to believe that in 2010 Wales had a formula that underfunded its needs, a legislative consent order model that meant we did not have a full law-making Assembly and a rail franchise that was not fit for purpose—we did not have a single mile of electrified rail track—while unemployment was rising, economic inactivity rates were stubbornly high and manufacturing jobs had gone into quite a sharp decline.

Now, however, I would point out that Wales has a fair funding settlement—there has been enhancement on the funding settlement—and we now have a full law-making Assembly that is to become a Senedd. Major upgrades of the railways are taking place, with investment both in south Wales and in north Wales, and a will and a commitment to open new stations. Unemployment is at record low levels, and economic inactivity rates that have been stubbornly high for decades are now better than England’s. A remarkable transformation has taken place in the Welsh economy, and the manufacturing sector is growing faster than in any other part of the UK. Without doubt, one of my proudest moments has been the abolition of the Severn tolls, so people do not have to pay to come into Wales any more, which provides a great opportunity to bind together the United Kingdom.

[Albert Owen]

The figures for unemployment and employment levels that the Secretary of State reads out are a credit to the Welsh Government, but they are small comfort to people facing job cuts right now, and I think his tone should reflect that. On the devolving of powers, will he answer the question asked by my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (David Hanson)? Teachers up and down the country, like local authorities, are asking: has the money allocated through the teachers formula gone to Wales and is it going to those local authorities?

[Alun Cairns]

My tone is certainly not vitriolic in any way. I am seeking to contrast the situation in 2010 and the good place Wales is now in because of the joint work with the Welsh Government. I will come on to that as the second theme I am seeking to develop. I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman for the constructive way in which he works in relation to the challenges and issues that his constituency faces. On the specific point he makes about teachers’ pensions and so on, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury wrote to the Welsh Government on 11 February to clarify that additional resource is being made available. How the Welsh Government distribute that is a matter for them, but I hope that answers many of the questions that have been asked.

Whether it is “Lonely Planet” highlighting north Wales as one of the best places to visit, “The Rough Guide” pointing to Wales as one of the most beautiful countries or the Eurobarometer poll pointing out that Cardiff is one of the best cities to live in across Europe, Wales is in a strong position. Wales is a beautiful location, and it has a lot to offer to the United Kingdom and to the rest of Europe and beyond. In the spirit of my right hon. Friends the Members for Clwyd West and for Preseli Pembrokeshire, I want to celebrate what Wales has to offer. We should bear in mind that we are talking to international investors. Such people will be watching and reading this debate, and I am proud of what we have achieved and of the potential and the opportunity in front of us.

Oral Answers to Questions

Albert Owen Excerpts

Wednesday 27th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

I join the Minister in congratulating the Welsh rugby team on their excellent victory. They are on course for the grand slam this year. The Minister will be aware that REHAU plastics in my constituency, which has traded internationally for more than 40 years, has announced its closure. It will now concentrate its business on the European mainland. Will his Department work with the Welsh Government, myself and local government to try to retain those important trading jobs? They are international jobs, and we need them on Anglesey.

[Nigel Adams]

Absolutely. I have a sneaking feeling that rugby might be a running theme throughout these questions. We recognise the importance of REHAU as an employer in the region and on Anglesey, and we will work closely with the hon. Gentleman and with the company to achieve the best possible outcome, most importantly for the important staff who work there.

Shared Prosperity Fund: Wales

Albert Owen Excerpts

Wednesday 14th November 2018 Westminster Hall

[Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC)]

Diolch, Mr Hollobone. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I congratulate the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian C. Lucas) on securing this important and much-needed debate. Those of us representing constituencies in Wales will be all too aware of the importance of regional and structural funding schemes, and consequently that the design of the new shared prosperity fund will largely determine the prospects for our communities for decades to come. It is essential, therefore, that the new fund serves the people and communities that we are elected to represent.

Almost four months have passed since the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government confirmed in a written statement the UK Government’s commitment to the UK shared prosperity fund. The days are getting shorter, the autumn Budget has passed and, if nothing else, Christmas will soon be upon us, yet we are still awaiting quite basic details about the new fund. What will the total quantum be? When, and how, will the funds be allocated? What activities will be eligible for support, and which bodies will oversee the decisions?

As has already been mentioned, at present west Wales and the valleys receive a significant amount of funding, as our low GDP per head qualifies us as a less developed region. Over the current cycle, Wales will receive approximately £2.7 billion from European structural funds. A majority of the Welsh population—63% to be precise—lives in this less developed region of west Wales and the valleys, where the funding goes a long way to sustaining the rural and underdeveloped economy.

While it is good that regional and structural funding programmes have been available to us, it is nevertheless a shame that our constituencies have continued to qualify for them. That is not surprising, of course, when we consider that, on the whole, UK economic development has typically focused attention and investment on urban centres, and priorities for rural areas have amounted to little more than improvement of existing connections between the countryside and the cities, so as to accelerate the trickle of prosperity from the economic engines and powerhouses to the rural periphery. The result is that the productivity of rural areas is consistently below the UK average, in stark and rather depressing contrast to that of larger towns and cities.

As the MP for Ceredigion, and as there are few signs of there being a change to UK economic strategy in the near future, I must stress that whatever the methodology used by the new shared prosperity fund, Wales must not be left financially worse off. If rumours are to be believed, and the shared prosperity fund is also to finance other responsibilities such as the old pillar two programmes of the common agricultural policy, for example, its budget will need to be proportionally larger so as not to constitute a real-terms cut.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman is making an important point. We should put it on the record that the funds should not be put through the Barnett formula, but should be protected at the current European level.

[Ben Lake]

I agree wholeheartedly with the hon. Gentleman. If the Barnett formula were applied to the shared prosperity fund, that would be nothing short of a disaster for our communities. We need to make sure that whatever the methodology, it is focused on the need of communities, rather than on simple population share.

I must labour the point: if the fund is to be used for other responsibilities, it cannot be reduced to a convenient tool for hard-pressed Departments to realise budget efficiencies via consolidation. The funding will be a lifeline for our communities, so it must provide Wales with no less, in real terms, than the total allocated by the EU and UK funding streams it replaces.

Furthermore, I believe the UK shared prosperity fund must operate on multi-annual financial allocations of at least seven years. Inconvenient though that may be for the Treasury’s spending review cycles, it would allow recipient organisations and groups the time for proper planning and implementation of larger scale and transformative projects—the types of project needed seriously to ratchet up jobs, wages and living standards in constituencies such as Ceredigion. We cannot settle for mere tinkering around the edges. What is required is a programme that allows for substantial and prolonged investment, so that our areas are no longer less developed and eligible for such assistance.

As the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) mentioned, in terms of the shared prosperity fund’s administration, important aspects of economic development are devolved, so the Welsh portion of the new fund should be devolved to the Welsh Government, potentially, as the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) just mentioned, as an additional, separate block grant from the Treasury, so that we may bypass the Barnett formula.

Time is against me, so I will conclude with a question to the Minister, who I welcome to his place in the Welsh Office. Will he guarantee that the UK shared prosperity fund will be, in real terms, at least equivalent to the funds that it is replacing, and that its budget will be proportionally increased if other EU—or, for that matter, UK—competencies are to be blended into the fund?

--- Later in debate ---

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I welcome the Minister to his place and congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Ian C. Lucas) on securing the debate. I am disappointed that the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies)—the Chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee—chose to talk about other things when the topic of the debate is so important for the future of Wales.

My constituency has been a major beneficiary of both European structural funds and the European regional development fund. In the 1980s, my constituency had twice the national average of unemployment—mass unemployment and mass depopulation, which is why it qualified with low GDP for European structural funds. Objective 1 has been a success in my area and it has helped repair communities through its social cohesion funds. It has also helped port communities with infrastructure—the main gateway between Wales and the rest of Europe—and helped the agricultural, food and farming sector.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff Central (Jo Stevens) said, the further education and higher education sectors have also been major beneficiaries. There have been real, tangible outcomes in my constituency, such as energy centres, food technology centres and job creation, and Wales and the valleys are benefiting from this.

However, we still need to reflect on how we are going forward, because my area is still a low area of gross value added—GVA—and that needs to change. That is why we need a further commitment from the Government for post-2020: that the circumstances will not change and that there will be real growth. Unemployment in my area is now below the national average, when in the 1980s it was double the national average. That is job creation helped by European structural funds—real people benefiting from real jobs in my area. That is why I am a big supporter.

Even today, we have great investment coming in. In 2015, we had a brand-new, state-of-the-art, innovative science park, which was part funded by the Welsh Government and attracted private investment, but it would not have been possible without the grant from the ERDF. In 2017, we got a business park at Llangefni, which now works closely with colleges and universities to ensure that we get top-quality jobs coming to my area. Again, that did not happen in the ’80s, before the structural funds were put in place in the ’90s. A tourist package worth £1.7 million will help the port of Holyhead, which was damaged by storm—again, some of that money comes from the European social fund. It is a good thing. Energy companies are investing in my area, such as Minesto from Sweden, and a not-for-profit organisation has been set up—an indigenous company in Wales—because of ERDF funding.

[Ian C. Lucas]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the determination of companies and institutions throughout north Wales to work together is a massive attraction to outside businesses to come to our area? We have shown that we work very effectively together and can plan the north Wales growth bid.

[Albert Owen]

Absolutely. That is the next point that I want to move on to. I am a strong supporter of devolution—I have fought for it in referendums, and I have seen its enhancement—but devolution is no good just going from Whitehall down the M4 to Cardiff Bay. It needs to go throughout the areas of Wales, including to north-west Wales and north Wales generally. Real devolution is about empowering people in their local communities. My hon. Friend is right: we have a structure in the north Wales growth bid. We have a board set up, with business and local authority representatives, and they have the ability to be a mechanism for distribution of the new growth fund in the future. I hope that the Minister will take that on board. I know that he is visiting my constituency in north Wales shortly, and he will hear about that.

I want to quote the remarks referred to by the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Ben Lake), in which the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government stated:

“The UK Shared Prosperity Fund will tackle inequalities within communities by raising productivity, especially in parts of the UK whose economies are furthest behind…It will have simplified administrative arrangements aimed at targeting funding effectively; and…It will operate across the UK. The UK Government says it will respect the devolution settlements in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and will engage the devolved administrations”.

I want those words to be put into action. I want the new Minister to take that on board and to work with us, as Welsh Members, to ensure that areas such as mine continue to grow and will benefit from the shared prosperity fund. I do not want to see this Government pull the rug from under the feet of the poor communities, education communities and farming communities that have benefited since 2000. Europe based its European structural funds on need, and that is what we need: to establish the needs of areas throughout the UK, including periphery areas such as the one that I represent, to show that we will go forward, that we do share prosperity and that we share it at a pace equal to that in the south-east of England. At the end of the day, we want a more equal society, economically and socially.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

We now come to the Front-Bench speeches, and the guidelines are five minutes for Her Majesty’s Opposition, 10 minutes for the Minister and the remaining time Mr Lucas may use to sum up the debate.

--- Later in debate ---

[Albert Owen]

I am not criticising the Minister, because he has only been in the job a short time, but it is the duty of Wales Office Ministers to stand up for Wales. We are having this debate to put pressure on him, so that the Welsh voice is heard loud and clear in this debate. It is not for others to decide; it is for Government to decide, and he is our voice in that Government.

[Nigel Adams]

I completely agree. I see myself as a champion for Wales in Westminster. That is incredibly important and must be my priority. I cannot tell the hon. Gentleman the exact date, but I can say that it will be this year, which indicates that it will be incredibly soon. I hope he takes me at my word when I say that the consultation is about to start.

Given the significance of the shared prosperity fund, it is right that questions about the size, structure and priorities for investment develop as we approach next year’s spending review, which will determine the amount of money that will be discussed.

Welsh Affairs

Albert Owen Excerpts

Monday 19th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

The reason for using the word “temporary” is that we want to bring in order-making powers for 24 areas of law to use them to protect the UK market until we have reached a position of agreement with the devolved Administrations on how we will enact legislation to put in place frameworks on those areas of law. In each and every one of the areas, we will, as we progress through the 24 areas, use the Sewel convention. This demonstrates the pragmatic, positive process we are pursuing. I could easily give some simple, practical examples of why this is important, but Wales has certainly more to gain than it has to lose. I have highlighted the fact that 80% of Welsh output goes to the rest of the UK, and that undermines—sorry, underlines; let me clarify that this underlines—the importance of doing the right thing on these 24 areas of law, because one part of the United Kingdom should not be given the power to hold up every other part.

Much attention is understandably given to the EU market, but the UK market is central to the success of the Welsh economy, and we must recognise the importance of the UK market to investment and jobs. As I have mentioned, 80% of Welsh output goes to the rest of the United Kingdom, so protecting the internal UK market will protect jobs and investment in Wales and across the UK. Where these limited common frameworks are needed or indeed essential, we will continue to apply the principles of the Sewel convention, seeking the support of the devolved Administration at every stage. This is an entirely reasonable proposition, and follows the foundations on which devolution has been established since 1999. I hope that the Welsh Government and Labour Members will recognise that we have moved a considerable way on this, and will see the importance of providing as much certainty and continuity as possible for businesses in Wales. We will continue to work closely with the Welsh Government to secure their agreement to promote a positive recommendation on a legislative consent motion in the Assembly.

Advice on the 24 areas, as well as on the others that we do not want to be subject to an order-making power, has come from industry itself. An expert panel was established, and businesses have raised genuine concerns about their UK prospects being undermined. Industry has advised us all the way along, and that is how we have ended up with these 24 areas. Any action to scupper that will be undermining—genuinely undermining —industry and business, as well as investment prospects, in Wales.

Agriculture is a key area of the Welsh economy and central to our way of life across Wales. Last summer, I hosted the Environment Secretary at the Royal Welsh show where, in one his first official engagements, he met the Farmers Unions of Wales, the National Farmers Union Cymru, the Country Land and Business Association and other key stakeholders, as well as my hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Chris Davies), who was working at the show that day. Our engagement with them has continued since then, with all of them having regular access to UK Government Ministers and officials. Most recently, the farming Minister—the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, my hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice)—met a group of representatives at the Royal Welsh agricultural showground to discuss our exit from the EU, but also to talk about longer-term plans for the UK’s environment and agriculture sectors.

At many of those meetings, if not all, geographical indicators have been raised, because we all recognise the importance of labelling, marketing and branding our produce. A moment ago, I talked about clause 11 and frameworks. This is a good example of why a UK approach is needed to protect the interests of producers and consumers. We obviously need common regulations on food labelling across the UK because we rightly want to protect the status of Welsh lamb, Welsh beef, Halen Môn and many other brands, so that they are recognised and protected across the UK and beyond. That does not mean, as has been suggested, a one-size-fits-all approach to branding. We are committed to protecting all 84 of the registered geographical indicators now and after EU exit.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State makes an important point about what the UK wants. Has he had discussions with European Ministers or Commissioners about what they will allow in respect of such branding in the future? Many brands, including Halen Môn in my constituency which he mentioned, are very concerned about this issue.

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important point. Like me, he highlighted Halen Môn, which has gained significantly from its geographical indicator brand. He will recognise that these issues are subject to negotiations. I expect our discussions with the European Union to take place on a positive footing, but of course we cannot pre-empt anything.

--- Later in debate ---

[David T. C. Davies]

I look forward to seeing whether those predictions are any more accurate than the many other predictions that have been proved completely inaccurate since the referendum.

Let me return to matters that we are not allowed to discuss in the Welsh Affairs Committee. I should very much like to have the right to discuss education, for instance.

[Albert Owen]

The hon. Gentleman is right: his own party’s Government have now put aside an extra £39 billion for the Brexit divorce bill. Did he advertise that fact when he was campaigning for us to leave the European Union?

[David T. C. Davies]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that we were paying about £18 billion a year to be a member of the European Union. Even if the £39 billion Brexit divorce bill figure is correct—I am prepared to accept that it is—it represents about two years’ membership of the European Union. If that is the price that we have to pay for a good deal, and if other Members support it, I am willing to support it as well. I would probably be willing to walk away and, effectively, say “Get stuffed”, but I am a man who likes to work with other people, and if I can encourage other Members to get behind the Government and compromise a little bit, I am all for doing that.



Let me now return to education for a minute. I think it very important for members of the Welsh Affairs Committee, and Welsh MPs in general, to consider the state of education in Wales. We often hear comparisons between the Welsh and the English national health services, but I do not think we hear enough comparisons between the Welsh and the English education systems. I want to know why my children, who attend state schools in Wales, have less chance statistically of getting good GCSE results and A-level results, less chance of getting into the best universities, and less chance of getting first-class degrees, and I want to know whether Labour Members agree with the judgment of the former Labour Education Minister in Wales who announced that it was time for the Labour Government in Wales to apologise to learners and parents for the mess that they had made of education.

--- Later in debate ---

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies), who talks a lot of sense in a very consensual way. I know that he is a strong supporter of devolution and that he has worked with Members from across the parties here in Westminster and in Wales to make it happen. I want to join him and the Secretary of State in paying tribute to Lord Crickhowell and to Lord Richard, both of whom died recently. I have lobbied both of those guys, and I did not agree with some of the things that they did, but they listened to me. They did not always deliver, but they were true servants of the Welsh people in their respective roles.

I also want to join the Secretary of State in thanking the Backbench Business Committee for allowing us our original debate on Thursday 1 March, which was co-sponsored by the hon. Members for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies) and for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts). We did not have the debate on that day, however. It was put off because of Storm Emma, which had a devastating effect on Wales. In my own constituency, huge storms ripped apart the harbour in Holyhead and caused untold damage to 80 vessels. The cruel sea really was cruel on that occasion. I am sure that the House will join me in paying tribute to the emergency services for the work that they did during Storm Emma. They dealt with snowdrifts and high winds in my constituency, and the coastguard and lifeboat services were also involved. I declare an interest as vice-president of the Royal National Lifeboat Institution. The emergency services went out and took staff to the hospitals as well as delivering essential medication and care to people in rural constituencies, and that is worth putting on record.

We are celebrating 100 years since the Representation of the People Act 1918, and I want to put on record the work that the suffragettes from Wales did in getting the vote for women. The first woman MP to be elected in Wales, in 1929, was Megan Lloyd George, in my own constituency. That showed the pioneering spirit of the county of Anglesey, which has also been seen in the field of education. Megan Lloyd George was the first Member of the House of Commons to lead a Welsh affairs debate, in the 1940s. She is historically important in that way.

Since we last met for a Welsh affairs debate in the House of Commons, we have had a general election, and there is a Welsh dimension to that, because the Prime Minister went for a walk in the hills of north Wales and thought that it was a very good idea to have a general election. We called it the hard Brexit general election, because she was seeking a mandate and an increased majority in the House, but the people of Wales and the people of the United Kingdom took away her majority.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

Does the hon. Gentleman recall the story about sleeping on the slopes of Cadair Idris? It goes that one will awake either inspired or mad.

[Albert Owen]

I will take the hon. Lady’s word for it. However, I will say that the Prime Minister had told the House on several occasions that she was not going to hold a general election, but she did. She said that she wanted to put her trust in the people of the United Kingdom, and they voted overwhelmingly against a hard Brexit.

Before moving on to Brexit, particularly the links with the Republic of Ireland, I am sure that the House will join me in congratulating the island of Ireland on winning the grand slam this weekend, Wales for being the runners-up and a third Celtic nation on coming third. Eddie Jones’s smirk was wiped off his face.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The hon. Gentleman prompted me to intervene at this point. I wish everyone a belated happy St Patrick’s day for Saturday. We know that when the Blarney stone is turned the right way, we will have the opportunity for good weather, and we had a great victory on Saturday as well. The Irish team do their talking on the pitch, unlike the England rugby coach, who does his talking—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Mr Shannon, I am the most lenient at letting you in, but I think the world already knows about the Irish team and how successful they were. We do not need it to be echoed again.

[Albert Owen]

I am glad to hear the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) supporting the united Ireland in its grand slam victory.

I want to talk about our historic links with the Republic of Ireland. Dublin is the nearest capital city to my constituency, and we have had trade for many decades—hundreds of years—between the Republic of Ireland and Wales. Much of that will be put in jeopardy if we do not get the Brexit deal right. We need a special arrangement, and I am appealing to the Secretary of State because he has been to my constituency to see the port of Holyhead and the problems that could occur. It is no good his repeating what the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union says about a frictionless border, which is meaningless. We need proper policies and partnerships, because Irish firms are already doing direct trade and are proposing further direct trade between the Republic of Ireland and continental Europe, bypassing the ports of Wales, Scotland and Ireland, so we need a special relationship.

We have a common travel area with the Republic of Ireland, and the Prime Minister has told me on several occasions that it would continue, but the reality is that it was set up based on our historical links and formed part of our special relationship when we were both in the European Union—we joined at the very same time. Now that the UK has decided to leave the European Union, that puts strain on the relationship. Unless we have a customs union of sorts—an arrangement or agreement—it will be impossible not to have tariffs and barriers at Welsh ports. The reality is that jobs will be lost in those ports. Holyhead and Fishguard are also railway towns, and they rely on the trade that comes from Ireland, so if we lose that vital link due to high tariffs, people will go elsewhere and jobs will be lost. It is hugely important that the Secretary of State listens to what the people of Wales, the Welsh Government and what many Welsh Members are saying. It is no good repeating the mantra of frictionless trade; we need practical things. The Irish Government want to see practical arrangements, as do Members of this House.

Turning to the Welsh economy, I agree with the right hon. Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones) when he talked about the north Wales growth deal. I am as frustrated as he and my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (David Hanson) are, because we have been told for a long time that the process will be bottom-up. Now is the time to shape that growth deal and to deliver on those arrangements. I want north-west Wales and the rest of north Wales to benefit. We need to put pressure on the Treasury to come up with a figure that can match the deals that are coming up from the local level to deliver jobs and prosperity in north Wales.

Time is limited, but I want to talk briefly again about the low-carbon economy and how Wales and north Wales can benefit and lead in this area. There are two marine energy projects in my constituency, and I know that the Secretary of State for Wales and the other Secretaries of State are aware of them. They need a kick-start, and the Welsh Government and the European social fund are providing the essential investment. Minesto, a Swedish company, is investing in my constituency, and Morlais, a local social enterprise, is working to develop marine and tidal energy.

New nuclear is on its way, and I congratulate the Secretary of State and his predecessor, the right hon. Member for Clwyd West, on the continuity they have provided in that project, which started in 2007 to 2009, because we could be world leaders in the low-carbon economy.

Like many Members, I again want to raise the issue of the Swansea bay tidal lagoon, because it is not good enough for the Government to keep saying, “We want value for money.” Of course we want that, but we also want ambition from this Government. They talk about an industrial strategy for the whole UK, and they now have to put their money where their mouth is. If they want Wales to prosper, they will find that Wales has an on-the-shelf project that can be rolled out across the whole of Wales in tidal lagoon technology. It will benefit the steel industry in Wales, and the supply chain in Wales and across the UK. We can be that first of a kind. Yes, first of a kinds are expensive, but if we had not invested in other first-of-a-kind technologies, we would never have anything in this country. It is time this industrial strategy came to life.

I want to finish by saying a few things more. I wish this debate had been held on 1 March, and I want to carry on campaigning for a public holiday—a bank holiday—on St David’s day. This was in our manifesto. If the Prime Minister decides to go for another walk in north Wales, I am sure we will have that opportunity to deliver a public holiday. The people of Wales are unique, but we are proud members of the United Kingdom, an equal nation—we are a nation and a proud one. When we come to this next year, as the biggest party in Wales, we will get another debate—we hope it will again be in Government time, not in Back-Bench time—because the people and the Members of this House of Commons from Wales deserve it.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

--- Later in debate ---

[Stuart Andrew]

Of course.

My right hon. Friend touched on some remarkable points in his opening statement and how significant they are for Wales. In just under two weeks, we will see the new devolution settlement come into force in Wales on the same day that Wales puts in place its first devolved taxes, as we provided for in the Wales Act 2014. Not only are we transferring powers to the Welsh Government, but the Budget announced significant fair funding for the Assembly.

Many subjects have been discussed during this debate, including Brexit, transport, growth deals, universal credit, the rural economy, broadband, the NHS, the tidal lagoon, energy, universities, steel, and local organisations such as Rotary and the Royal National Lifeboat Institution. There was also mention of bigotry, and let me say clearly from the Dispatch Box that I am proud that I have tried to fight bigotry wherever I can, and I will always stand up for people who are facing discrimination. It is important to recognise, though, that not everybody is bigoted towards the Welsh. At the weekend, I was in my local pub, where most of my friends are English. Everyone has a nickname in the pub, and one of my friends, Mucker, had the grace to shake my hand and congratulate Wales on their strong performance. There is lots of support for us out there.

Turning to the growth deals, the whole point is that we are trying to rebalance the economy. We have heard lots about doing that today, but that is what the growth deals are all about. We need local involvement, because local people, local businesses and local authorities know their areas best and know the uniqueness of the local economies. That is why we are keen to deliver the deals. We already have the £1.2 billion scheme for Cardiff and the £1.3 billion scheme for Swansea, and I am taking a personal interest in the north Wales scheme. In fact, my first official visit after my appointment was to meet the leaders of the north Wales growth deal to show them that I am absolutely committed to ensuring that we deliver for north Wales. I am acutely aware of the concerns that north-west Wales should not lose out to the more industrial north-east Wales, and I am keen that the growth deal recognises every single part of north Wales and the contribution that it can make to growing the local economy.

Lord Bourne was in Aberystwyth last Friday to start the discussions on the growth deal in mid-Wales. The hon. Member for Ceredigion (Ben Lake) made some important points and is a doughty campaigner on broadband. We are investing money to ensure we get broadband connectivity and we introduced the universal service obligation to try to guarantee that every household has the right to request a minimum broadband speed. We will do everything we can on that, and I hope it may well feature in the emerging growth deal that comes forward.

[Albert Owen]

The Minister will be aware that the roll-out in Wales has been undertaken by BT, along with Welsh Government, UK Government and European Union support. Can he guarantee that if we leave the EU, the UK Government will make up the shortfall, so that we can have full coverage across the whole of Wales?

[Stuart Andrew]

As I just mentioned, the USO that we put in place seeks to achieve that before we even reach the point the hon. Gentleman mentions. We are committed to delivering it because we recognise its importance.

I also want to address the cross-border issue, because it is important. We have already shown that we are keen on making sure that we maximise the cross- border potential we have. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State held a summit in south Wales not so long ago, and the fact that the tolls are going from the Severn bridge will be a huge transformational project in terms of encouraging that cross-border activity. As the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) mentioned, the area is already starting to see some of the benefits, although I know there will be challenges, too. I was pleased to meet my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones) and other members of the all-party group on Mersey Dee North Wales to hear how we can make that cross-border connectivity even more effective in building the economy in north Wales.

We also talked about steel, and I know that many Members rightly have concerns about that. I assure them that the Secretary of State for Wales has spoken recently to the UK trade commissioner to the US to get an update on the latest developments, has met the US ambassador to the UK, has written to the First Minister to update him on the situation and is acutely aware of the issues being faced. The Government have been clear that tariffs are not the right way to address the global problem of overcapacity—a multilateral solution is needed. We will continue to work with EU partners to consider the scope here and the work that will be needed to protect the steel industry as much as possible.

Energy was another issue raised, and I know the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) has worked very hard on getting my home island to become a great area for investment in energy. I certainly look forward to working with him in the future. We also heard a discussion on universal credit. I know that there have been issues with it as it has been rolled out, but that is why we have been taking time to roll it out, and to listen and make alterations to it. The old system meant that if someone worked a minute over 16 hours they would lose so much benefit, and that was not a good incentive. We are continuing to monitor this to make sure we get it absolutely right.

International Women’s Day received a number of mentions, including from the hon. Member for Ynys Môn, who referred to Megan Lloyd George, a former Member of this House. I also pay tribute to the 93-year-old constituent of the hon. Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds) who is serving as a mayor. There is hope for us all yet that perhaps our political careers can carry on long into old age, even for those, like me, who have a very marginal seat.

This has been a great debate, and I am grateful to all Members, from all parts of the House, for the contributions they have made. It is a good testament to the passion we all have for Wales. I know there has been criticism from some Members that Conservative Members do not care about Wales, but I can tell them that we fight day in, day out for Wales. We are passionate about its success. This is why we are all working hard for it, in every level of government here in Westminster, and we will continue to do so, for as long as I am in this role.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered Welsh Affairs.

Oral Answers to Questions

Albert Owen Excerpts

Wednesday 13th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

I have said this several times, and I will continue to repeat it because it is extremely important: we will negotiate a Brexit deal that works for every part of the United Kingdom. Yesterday’s meeting of the Joint Ministerial Committee was positive, but the differences will be debated, as is only right and proper. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will respect the outcome of the referendum that the UK voted for.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

Nadolig llawen a blwyddyn newydd dda i chi, Mr Speaker, and to all Members. Last week showed how important the Irish dimension is to the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill and the negotiations. Will the Secretary of State give me a categorical assurance that Welsh ports, especially Holyhead, will be safeguarded and given the same treatment as those in Northern Ireland when it comes to trade?

[Alun Cairns]

I share the hon. Gentleman’s interest in Welsh ports. Holyhead is clearly important, as is Fishguard in Pembrokeshire. Leaving the European Union provides new opportunities for both north-west and south-west Wales. After we have left the European Union, they will be gateways to Europe in a way that they have not been previously, and local authorities and businesses will need to respond to new opportunities for growth.

Rural Economy of Wales

Albert Owen Excerpts

Tuesday 28th November 2017 Westminster Hall

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I genuinely congratulate the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Ben Lake) on the tone he set in opening the debate. I pay tribute to him and his predecessor Mark Williams, who for many years adopted the same tone of consensus in Wales. He brought people together to speak as Welsh MPs in the House of Commons.

I congratulate the NFU on providing a concise brief, much of which the hon. Gentleman referred to, and I make no apologies in echoing some of the statistics that it provided. Indeed, farming unions have been helpful to Members over many years, and I pay tribute to the work they do not just for their members, but for the communities of rural Wales. They play a very positive role in the social fabric of Wales, and I thank them for that.

I will concentrate my contribution on a matter that has been affecting my constituents for a long time, but in particular since 2010: the over-centralisation of many of the UK Government’s services, away from rural and semi-rural areas to the towns and cities of Wales and the UK. I will also touch on food and drink and the importance of agriculture, tourism and connectivity.

The Welsh food and drink industry is hugely important, as the hon. Gentleman said, to the whole economy of urban and rural Wales. The backbone of the food industry is Welsh agriculture. As has been said, it is a progressive, outward-looking industry that exports much of its produce across the European Union—some 90% of it is freely traded across the EU. A third of the lamb that the United Kingdom exports is Welsh lamb, which is without a doubt the finest lamb in the UK. It is hugely important, and we need to pay tribute to our agriculture industry and our farmers and offer them help and support.

I know the Minister listens carefully to what is said and represents our views to Government as a Minister in the Wales Office. He talks about securing EU funding to 2020, but I challenge him to go further than that. Our farming industry needs safeguarding post-Brexit. The money we receive from the common agricultural policy needs to be ring-fenced. If the funding is done through the Barnett formula, we will lose out. That is the challenge for the Government. When they talk about agriculture and rural Wales, they need to safeguard the monies we receive now. Alternatively, the Minister can tell us exactly how he will replenish that money.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

I beg the hon. Gentleman to bring to bear what influence he can on the Welsh Government to get them to commit to maintaining the same level of income for farmers when that money is transferred from Westminster under the devolved processes, whatever they may be.

[Albert Owen]

That is the point I was making: it should not just go through the Barnett formula, because we would lose out by getting only a certain percentage. We need like-for-like funding, because when the European Union negotiates the amount, it looks at need in a way that is fairer to rural communities.

Connectivity is also important. In north-west Wales, and indeed in Ceredigion on the west coast of Wales, we suffer from a double whammy in being not just rural communities, but peripheral communities. Often a Cardiff or London-centric view predominates in the United Kingdom, so we have to fight harder for services and the connectivity that we deserve. I consider north-west Wales to be the heart of the British Isles. I do not see it as peripheral; it is only peripheral to someone looking up towards it from down south. It is the heart of the British Isles, because to our west is the island of Ireland and Northern Ireland, to our north is Scotland, and to our east is England. We are the heart of the British Isles, and need to start speaking with that confidence.

When there are roll-outs of programmes such as 5G, which we heard about in the Budget, it should be started and test-piloted in difficult rural areas, not just in the large towns and cities of the United Kingdom. That is the challenge for the Wales Office in the UK Government. Swansea deserves its connectivity, but so too does rural Wales. If the Government are serious about spreading wealth across the United Kingdom, they need to pilot projects in rural and peripheral areas.

[Simon Hart]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the technology already exists? It is available in the Alps, in Norway, and in the highlands of Scotland. The technology is, to some extent, proven. What is actually required, as I am sure the Minister will confirm, is political will.

[Albert Owen]

The hon. Gentleman has asked me a question and answered it in the way that I would have: it does require political will. Each time the Government trial something, I ask them to go not for the easy towns and cities, but for rural and peripheral areas.

Tourism is hugely important. It is the fastest-growing industry in the United Kingdom and in the world, and we have some of the best brands in Wales. Many visitors to Wales come for our coastline, our national parks, our areas of outstanding natural beauty, and the tranquillity, which is best seen on the Isle of Anglesey—the heart of the British Isles. In my opinion, Anglesey is very much the jewel in the crown of Welsh tourism. There are, however, serious challenges in rural Wales. If we are to develop a 21st-century economy, we need 21st-century tools to do the job. As I said, in the digital age we do have better connectivity in broadband and mobile, but it is still behind many parts of the UK. We should address that problem, and the Ministers from the Wales Office need to fight for it.

I commend the roll-out package that was put together in partnership between the UK Government, the Welsh Government, the EU and BT. I hope that the EU money can be replenished in some way in the future, because that package has worked in many places. I have been working with BT, the Welsh Government, and indeed the Ministers in the Wales Office, including the Minister here today, who has listened to what I and other Members have been saying.

When I talk about rural Wales, I talk about inter- dependency with urban Wales as well, which is very important. My main point is about the centralisation of UK Government services. We have seen court closures over many years, which not only result in denial of local access to justice but damage to local economies. Many of the local economies created by solicitors’ offices and the extra boost given to the economy by the areas around the courts are lost for good. Many personnel move from those areas to where the courts move to. We have seen HMRC, for example, moving its offices from the west to the east, to central Wales, down to Cardiff. That does not help rural economies in north and north- west Wales.

[Ian C. Lucas]

I am afraid this is an irresistible opportunity to talk about the Government’s appalling proposal to shift HMRC from Wrexham in north Wales, my constituency, which has many rural areas, to Cardiff’s city centre. Is that not exactly the opposite of what we should be doing?

[Albert Owen]

Yes, it is. The Government talk, as many Governments do, about decentralisation and devolution of services, but they act in the opposite way, pulling out services from rural areas. Those rural areas have very competent people, with the skill sets to do those jobs for many years. The services are being moved just to save the Government money, and in the long run communities are getting left behind.

My final point has nothing to do with the Government, although the Government need to take some responsibility. We need to get proper banking policy in this country. When high street banks close in rural areas and in small and larger towns, it rips the heart out of those communities. Local government, the Welsh Government and the UK taxpayer are paying for those communities, yet banks just walk away. We know what banks have done to our global economy; we see the recession across the world and in this country. Those banks have responsibilities, but we need to plug those gaps, because often buildings are left empty, jobs are lost and the local high street suffers.

Rural Wales needs a strong voice and, with Welsh MPs across the parties, we have one. We also need a Government here in the UK that are listening and putting devolution into practice, with real delivery of jobs and services in our rural communities, so that rural and urban Wales can compete on a level playing field with the rest of the United Kingdom. I thank the hon. Member for Ceredigion for giving me the opportunity to say that, because I want to stand up in future and say how much better things are in Wales because rural and urban areas have worked together to create the best place to live, work and visit in the whole of the United Kingdom.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

We now come to the first of the Opposition Front-Bench speeches. The guideline limit for both the Scottish National party and the Labour party Front Benchers is five minutes.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Guto Bebb)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I also join in the congratulations for the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Ben Lake) on what was a very constructive speech and the tributes to his predecessor, who was also always constructive in this Chamber.

We have had a wide-ranging and constructive debate. It is a pleasure to be able to highlight some of the success stories and some of the work that needs to be done. The hon. Gentleman highlighted the need for a mid-Wales growth deal, although he was not particularly generous in his support for the comments made by the Chancellor in the Budget. I think it is a major step forward.

Since 2015, we have had a city deal for Cardiff and the 10 local authorities surrounding Cardiff and we have had a regional deal for Swansea—not just for Swansea, but for Swansea and the region surrounding Swansea, including Carmarthenshire, Neath, Port Talbot and Pembrokeshire. We are working on a growth deal for north Wales; I had the privilege yesterday to be at the acceptance of the bid from north Wales. I was joined at the session by the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian C. Lucas). It was a constructive session and there was engagement across the political spectrum. We had leaders of local authorities in north Wales of all political colours. We had a Plaid leader in the session, a Plaid member who was also a leader but not currently a Plaid leader. I am not quite sure what is going on in my own county of Conwy, but we do have a good leader, who was there, and we also had leaders from other north Wales counties, who were of a Labour party persuasion.

[Albert Owen]

I want to say on the record what I have said to the Minister privately—that he should involve Welsh MPs from north Wales in the growth deal. Yes, let us have bottom up and get the bid, but we have a mandate from the communities as well.

[Guto Bebb]

I am absolutely delighted to welcome that comment. It was great to see the hon. Member for Wrexham there. In addition, I am engaging with north Wales MPs and there will be a roundtable session in Gwydyr House with the bid authors and north Wales MPs in due course.

The hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) made a very important point in highlighting the fact that growth deals are bottom up. The key thing is that the proposals from north Wales were coming in from local authorities representing the whole of north Wales. Our responsibility down here in Westminster—the responsibility of the UK Government—and the responsibly of the Welsh Government is to work constructively with the partners in north Wales.

This is the template for an approach for mid-Wales. One of the key things I am aware of as a UK Government Minister representing Wales is the importance of ensuring that we do not forget mid-Wales. One of the key things that we highlighted in the Budget is that, although of course we need to deliver a growth deal for north Wales—after all, in the context of this debate, a significant part of north Wales can undoubtedly be described as rural—we also need to deliver for mid-Wales. I want to be able to stand up and say categorically that we will have delivered growth deals for every single local authority in Wales. We have already delivered for 14 local authorities in south Wales. We are working with the six in north Wales, and we are opening the door to a deal in mid-Wales.

We passionately believe that such deals should come from the bottom up. That is why, in the discussions with the leader of Gwynedd County Council and the chief executive of Carmarthenshire County Council, and in the discussions that Lord Bourne, my fellow Minister in the Wales Office, had yesterday with the chief executive of Ceredigion Council and the vice-chancellor of Aberystwyth University, we were very clear that we do not think that the mid-Wales deal has to be confined to Powys and Ceredigion.

I am sure the hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden) is aware of examples in Scotland of counties involved in more than one growth deal. We are keen to ensure that if the proposers from mid-Wales say that they want involvement from south Gwynedd—Meirionnydd, for example—Dyffryn Teifi in Carmarthenshire or even north Pembrokeshire, that is something we can look at, because we want to work to deliver the growth deals that are needed in every part of Wales. If people are telling us that the way to do that is to expand or to work as two counties in mid-Wales, we will listen. I am pleased to say in the spirit of co-operation that, over the past few years, the relationship with the Welsh Government Minister for the economy has been extremely constructive.

One thing that has been highlighted in this debate is that we have an east-west issue in relation to economic development. I would argue—perhaps some Opposition Members would agree—that there was perhaps too much emphasis in the early years of devolution on strengthening ties within Wales, which was perfectly understandable. When a new institution is being created for Wales, there needs to be a coherence to Wales. But we also need to recognise the economic realities, including the links between Newport and Bristol, and the cross-border links in north-east Wales. We need to ensure we have a strong Welsh economy that is able to work with our partners in other parts of the United Kingdom.

The hon. Member for Ynys Môn said that Wales is not a peripheral region. I could not agree more. The north Wales growth deal can link to the northern powerhouse and the success stories that are Manchester and Leeds, and a sector deal for the nuclear industry could make a huge difference not just for north-west Wales, but for the entirety of the north Wales economy and the north-west of England economy. That shows clearly that we are not a peripheral region and that we have a huge contribution to make.

I want to touch quickly on the involvement of universities. The hon. Member for Ceredigion was absolutely right to highlight the importance of universities for economic development. He is fortunate to represent not one but two universities in his constituency. The contribution of Glyndwr University and Bangor University to the north Wales growth deal is an example of what can be done. I was pleased that Lord Bourne met the vice-chancellor of Aberystwyth yesterday, because universities will have a crucial role in any mid-Wales growth deal. I encourage the hon. Gentleman to highlight the importance of the university and further education sector in developing growth deals.

I am aware that time is short, so I will highlight some other issues that were raised in debate. Concerns were raised about broadband connectivity. Listening to the hon. Gentleman, I could be forgiven for thinking that I was listening to his predecessor. Broadband connectivity in Ceredigion is indeed a very serious issue, as it is in many parts of rural Wales, although there are some areas where that is not the case. For example, the connectivity in Aberdaron on the Llŷn peninsular, which is much better than the connectivity in the majority of my constituency, is an example of what can be done. Rural Wales can be served if there is a desire to serve rural Wales, but we need some honesty in this Chamber. For broadband connectivity to be supplied across Wales, there has to be a partnership between the private sector, the Welsh Government and the UK Government.

Back in September, I announced the £56 million of addition spending to be made available through the claw-back on the contract with BT, but it is disappointing that that figure was lower than the 11% secured for Wales in 2011 because take-up in Wales had been lower. There has been a lack of transparency in Wales about why and how the priorities for rolling out broadband were set. It is unacceptable that Ceredigion—an area with two universities, which can make such a contribution to our rural economy—has been so ill-served by the way the Welsh Government have rolled out the contract. We can rectify the situation, and we need to do so, but that can be done only if we work together.

I expected that the agricultural sector would be more of a key part of this debate. We understand the importance of the agricultural sector for Ceredigion and most of rural Wales, including Powys. The Government have gone a long way in trying to reassure the sector. First, we guaranteed that the funding will be in place until 2020. We also said that there will be comparable funding until 2022. I hear what the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) is saying about getting guarantees post-2022, but a funding guarantee until after 2022 would be a longer period of certainty than we would have had if we had decided to remain within the European Union. The farming community appreciates that guarantee.

The hon. Member for Ynys Môn made an important point, which I am happy to accept, about the importance of ensuring that our share of future agricultural funding is based on the historical trend, rather than a Barnett-based system. The Wales Office and Ministers representing Wales in the Wales Office will be making that case, but we have to do so with sensitivity because we cannot say to the Welsh Government, “This is a chunk of money for you, but you must spend it on this specific area.” If we did that, we would be accused of a power grab.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ben Lake]

Thank you for chairing this debate, Mr Hollobone. It has been a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I thank all Members of Parliament—particularly the 10 Welsh Members of Parliament—who attended. That reflects the importance of the rural economy for Members of Parliament from Wales.

I outlined some of the problems facing the future of the rural economy, and we have had a broad discussion about them. We have covered issues relating to what our relationship with the European Union means for our trading arrangements and the future of rural development payments. We also outlined some of the possibilities and opportunities for the rural economy in Wales.

The hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) set out the problem of centralisation and the need for decentralisation. It would send a very strong signal if the UK and Welsh Governments were able to decentralise a lot more of their institutions to rural areas. I am fortunate in Ceredigion to have a Welsh Government building in Aberystwyth, but perhaps there is more we could do to implement that.

[Albert Owen]

I am glad the hon. Gentleman has highlighted that point. Is he as disappointed as me that the Minister did not refer to that? The Government have responsibility for it, and by keeping agencies open they would help local economies.

[Ben Lake]

I agree. The Government, and the public sector more broadly, can play a very important role in investing and locating agencies in more rural areas. That would send a signal—a vote of confidence in rural areas—to the private sector that the countryside is open for business, as I said earlier.

I am conscious that time is getting the better of me. We have an opportunity with the growth deal in particular to work on a cross-party basis. This debate has been constructive, which can only be a good thing. We have an opportunity not only to safeguard the current rural economy, but to lay the foundations of the rural economy of tomorrow. Making better use of our higher education institutions and improving connectivity would be a great way to start. Just like decentralising some of the Government agencies, getting the growth deal right would send a clear signal to the outside world—to businesses and entrepreneurs—that the countryside is open for business, and that they should locate our businesses with us. Diolch.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the future of the rural economy in Wales.

Oral Answers to Questions

Albert Owen Excerpts

Wednesday 1st November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. He is a champion for the agricultural industry, which is no surprise in view of the constituency he represents. I can assure him that the discussions with the farming unions will intensify, and I am very pleased to announce that the Secretary of State for International Trade will be in Wales this week.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

rose—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman discovers anew his popularity on a daily basis.

[Albert Owen]

I am very pleased that the Prime Minister is here to listen to my question, because on a number of occasions I have asked her about the importance of the port of Holyhead in my constituency to Irish trade. Last week, a company from Ireland suggested a new route to Holland and Belgium, circumnavigating Britain. Stakeholders in my constituency are concerned about that. The Irish Government are concerned about that; so are the Welsh Government. When will the UK Government wake up?

[Guto Bebb]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important point about the port of Holyhead and the concern is shared by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales, who visited the port with him. These concerns have been heard in the Wales Office; we have met stakeholders and Irish businesses. I can assure him that our intention is to ensure a frictionless border in Holyhead, in the same way as in Ireland.

Energy in Wales

Albert Owen Excerpts

Thursday 14th September 2017 Westminster Hall

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered energy in Wales.

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley.

I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response, though I am a tad disappointed that it is the Under-Secretary of State for Wales, the hon. Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) who will respond on behalf of the Government. If the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy truly wanted to spread wealth across the whole of the United Kingdom, and if energy and the industrial strategy were the central plank of this Government’s approach, I would at least have expected an Energy Minister to come along today. However, the Under-Secretary is a very good friend of mine—he helped me with many projects even before he became a Member of Parliament—and I know that he understands the subject of energy in Wales.

The purpose of this debate is to take stock of energy in Wales, to press the reset button—that is a polite way of telling the Government to get their finger out on certain projects—and, although it might not sound like I am doing so, to recreate a consensus. I stress the word “recreate” and will come to that in a moment. My contribution will look fairly at the good, the bad and the frustrating in energy policy, including some very welcome consensus in the late 1990s and the noughties, right through until about 2012.

Wales has enormous potential in energy. It has the potential to drive the energy policy of the whole United Kingdom and, indeed, its industrial strategy. We have natural resources, human resources and skills in the energy sector; welcoming local communities to host many of the proposed projects; and a forward-looking Welsh Government.

[Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that we need the UK Government to commit to big projects? Whether we are talking about the electrification of the railway to Swansea or the tidal lagoon, such commitment to Wales has been missing from this Government.

[Albert Owen]

We are at a crucial time with the UK Government. As I said in my opening remarks, if BEIS, in particular, and other Departments are serious about spreading wealth across the United Kingdom, they need to look at Wales in a more positive way.

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

Following on from the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds), if the Government were to invest in electrification and the lagoon projects, much-needed jobs would be delivered throughout south Wales, as well as in north Wales and Ynys Môn. Such commitment from the Government would help with some of the longer-term unemployment issues that some parts of Wales have had for a number of years. Ii would also improve the skills agenda in Wales.

[Albert Owen]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. When we talk about energy projects, we are talking about building infrastructure, helping the environment, climate change, jobs and skills. They are important and linked to the other projects he mentioned. Wales not only complements the United Kingdom, but can lead the United Kingdom and rekindle a pioneering spirit in many projects.

Since I entered this House, I have been interested in energy. I used to work in the energy sector. One of my first jobs was in the oil industry: for many years I was a galley boy on an oil tanker going around the middle east. During the 1970s I saw some of the big issues of the oil crisis at first hand, when people talked about developing renewable, solar and other technologies because of the crisis. Sometimes it takes a crisis to focus attention and to concentrate minds. Afterwards, however, we went back to oil and coal, carrying on as normal in many ways.

I am proud that we now have the Climate Change Act 2008. I was proud to vote for it and I think I am the only Member present in this Chamber who did so. It was a pioneering Act that showed that the United Kingdom was a lead nation in looking after the environment. To complement the Act, to ensure that we reduce carbon and improve the environment, we need low-carbon projects. There have been some good results.

As the Minister knows, I am pro-renewables, pro-nuclear and pro-energy efficiency, and I see no contradiction in taking all three views, if we are to achieve the targets we all want. Even ardent climate change deniers now acknowledge that the climate is changing and accept—humbly, some of them—that mankind is contributing to that. We need to dispel the idea that the climate is not changing and that we need do nothing. We have to do something for this and future generations.

I repeat that I was very proud that under the previous Labour Government, but with the support of all parties in the House, we passed the Climate Change Act. We need a rich mix of energy technologies, to ensure that we reach our targets. When I sat on the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs, we produced a number of reports on energy in Wales and they were very good platforms to build on. I have also been on the Select Committee on Energy and Climate Change and am now on the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee, and we are considering the issue. I have scrutinised Governments of both colours—of three colours if we include the coalition, which was a mix of Conservatives and Liberals—but, to be fair, in the early days there was a consensus on how to progress.

We need to push the case for new renewables, new nuclear and new opportunities for jobs and skills in the future. I welcome the initiatives of previous Governments. The renewables obligation was introduced to help kick-start solar and wind, the development of which is now producing lower-cost clean energy. That was because of subsidy, which is not a dirty word but an essential tool to get firsts of a kind going. We need the help and support of subsidy. We rightly subsidise our buses and trains; we should be subsidising the development of renewable and future generation technologies.

I repeat that I welcome the consensus between the two major parties that promoted and developed a low-carbon economy. In 2001 and 2003, during a review, I lobbied the Labour Government to introduce new nuclear and to push the wind agenda to offshore as well as onshore. The Conservatives adopted that policy and supported the Climate Change Act. There was a great period of continuity from when the Conservatives were in opposition and Labour in government, to when the coalition came to office and the stewardship of the then Energy Minister, Charles Hendry, to whose name we will no doubt return. That continuity gave essential certainty to investors, which is important because such projects are long term and cannot be done in a single parliamentary cycle. In many cases, we need to consider working over two or three Parliaments.

That was the good part. The bad part was the populism of the coalition, with some of the Conservatives dancing to the tune of The Daily Telegraph and many others, pulling projects because they were not popular. The wind industry was coming to the end of its subsidies anyway, but the Conservative-led coalition turning against it hampered investment in the sector. Offshore wind is now back on the agenda; many of the projects started in 2006 and 2007 are now coming to fruition and producing the wind energy the country needs. Wind is important. I know it has its critics, because it is intermittent, but that means it can be switched off when demand is at a certain level. We can have continuous demand and supply, but also demand when needed.

We moved from a good period to a frustrating period because of external factors—the global financial crisis—when external investment became difficult to obtain. I understand that, but we need a stimulus. We needed it then, and I argued that the stimulus could have come in the form of investment in the energy requirement. That would have created the jobs and skills necessary to boost a flat economy that is on its knees.

[Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that we should ask the Government to secure a price per unit for wind energy for a year, rather than price variation?

[Albert Owen]

I will come to price mechanisms in a moment, but my hon. Friend is absolutely right that we need certainty. Investors need to know what the price will be and what return they will get in the long term. I think that everyone accepts that economies of scale enable lower-cost energy production, and that should be reflected in subsidies. The governance framework needs to be a little tighter. The contract for difference, which I will come to, is a good principle. Many people do not appreciate that with a strike price, if prices fluctuate, big developers do not get the money; it comes back and stays with the Government, so we get certainty about how much the Government spend. That is good.

Major energy policies are reserved. I appreciate that the Wales Act 2017 devolved control over projects up to 350 MW, which reflects the larger scale of projects, but we require a partnership between local communities, local businesses, devolved Administrations and the UK Government, within—remember that we are still in the European Union—the European framework.

I acknowledge that whoever won the 2010 general election would have had to reform the electricity market. I sat on the Committee that discussed the relevant legislation before it went through. I did not agree with everything in it, but I did agree with the principle of reforming the electricity market to ensure certainty for investors and value for money for the consumer. Energy Ministers have changed frequently—that has been a problem with both Labour and Conservative Governments —so we have perhaps not given energy the attention it deserves. I support the contract for difference principle and the need for a capacity market mechanism, but during the period of populism I referred to, the oil price and energy prices went up, and that became a big political issue. We were significantly reliant on oil and gas prices, because we were not developing the renewable, new nuclear and low-carbon technologies we should have been.

Wales is still heavily reliant on oil and gas as part of our mix, so we need to move forward. It is ironic that Wales and Scotland are huge producers of energy, yet household and business bills are higher in those areas than in the rest of the United Kingdom. It is totally unfair that a consumer in Wales pays extra for their energy. They might be close to a power station that generates energy for the grid but, because of the transmission and distribution mechanisms, they end up paying more for it. I would not say that the energy market is completely broken, but it is fractured and those issues need to be addressed. Wales is still reliant on gas and coal, and it needs to wean itself off them. I am disappointed that combined storage schemes for coal and for oil have not progressed in the past five to six years. We could have retrofitted many of our power stations so that we had clean coal and oil production as we transitioned to renewables, but we did not do so.

Let me turn to some of the technologies. I will start with marine technology, which is important. We have a history in Wales of small hydro schemes. The Dinorwig pumping station in many ways revolutionised storage. We need to consider storage, and here is a scheme that was developed in Wales many years ago that pumps electricity up at night, when energy prices are low, and stores it.

[Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC)]

I echo the hon. Gentleman’s comments about the potential in Wales for hydro schemes. Dinorwig is a fantastic example of a larger hydro scheme. Does he agree that smaller hydro schemes—the potential of which we perhaps have not fully realised—are just as important for our energy mix in Wales? He also talks about the UK and Welsh Governments working in partnership. We desperately need to look at the revaluation of business rates, which is affecting many hydro energy schemes, particularly community energy schemes. Does he agree that we have an opportunity to fully realise the potential of hydro in Wales by addressing that revaluation?

[Ian Paisley (in the Chair)]

Order. I remind Members to keep their interventions as short as possible.

[Albert Owen]

I welcome the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Ben Lake) to the House—this is the first opportunity I have had to do so. He is a new Member and he will get used to making shorter interventions as he gets going.

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right: we need to look at barriers and at whether the rates system deters such schemes. We are going back to basics with some of these smaller hydro projects. Many farms and small communities had their own hydro projects many years ago. We get an awful lot of wind and rain in west Wales and the west of the United Kingdom, and we need to harness that. Many of the windmills that produced food in the past were driven by both hydro and wind; we are only returning to that.

Wales and the UK’s west coast have enormous marine energy potential. Their tidal ranges are some of the best in the world. The Welsh Government and the UK Government have done numerous studies in Scotland, west Wales and the west of England, yet although prototypes have been set up, many have not been developed. Indeed, I visited Strangford lough in Northern Ireland to see some of the pioneering schemes there, but those have not reached the necessary commercial scale because of a lack of investment. There is a blockage, and it is in all our interests to undo that blockage and ensure that such schemes are successful.

Minesto, a Swedish company in my constituency, is moving forward a project, which the Minister knows about, 8 km off the coast of Holyhead that links with the port of Holyhead. Not-for-profit organisation Menter Môn, which the Minister also knows about, is involved in the grid connection there and will benefit from that. That project is up and going.

This Parliament and the Welsh and Scottish Governments have talked for some time about tidal lagoons; we now need to move forward with them. We could have a cluster in Wales because of the tidal range from Colwyn Bay to Swansea Bay—the potential is absolutely there. I am sure that colleagues will want to elaborate on the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon, but I mention it because it has been identified as a first-of-a-kind project that could go forward. The Government have taken it seriously and a lot of development work has been done on it.

This Government set up the electricity market review and capacity mechanisms that I talked about, and they also set up the Hendry review, which reported at the beginning of this year. Reports take time, and I understand the Government’s frustration when they get external issues. Brexit is dominant, and we had a two-month election period that everyone wanted—apart from the Conservatives themselves, when they saw the results. That election cost the taxpayer £140 million, excluding the figure for Northern Ireland, which we have not yet seen. That money could have been invested in some of these projects, which could have been moving forward as I speak.

Tidal lagoons could generate 250 MW to 350 MW of electricity. The tidal range allows some 14 hours of generation per day—it is huge. That would enhance the area, since it could be used for tourism as well as for producing much-needed low-carbon energy. Of course, we need great connections, which are controversial. I will come to connections for transmission and distribution; we need to handle them properly and have them underground so they are not unsightly.

I urge the Minister to give us a response to the Hendry review. It is no good the Government saying, “We’re looking at it”—they have been looking at it for many months. The civil servants were not involved in the election campaign; they were diligently doing their work in the BEIS office. They should come up with recommendations for Ministers, and Ministers should have the grace to make their mind up and come back to the House to say where they are going. Investors need certainty; they do not need the Government to abandon decisions after setting up a review. In my humble opinion, the only thing holding the project back, having looked at the potential mechanisms and the price—the first of its kind will be expensive—is the political will of the Government. It will be the job of the Minister to convince the House that that is not the case. The only way he will be able to do that is by announcing the date of an announcement. The Government should stop prevaricating and do that immediately. The Orkney isles, the west coast of England and south Wales have the potential for marine technology.

Let me turn to new nuclear, because it is important that we keep these projects on track. Again, this is older technology that has been modernised for the 21st century. In my constituency, the Wylfa power station site generated safe nuclear power for a record number of years, which created jobs for many decades. In fact, it is the only industry I know where classmates who left school at the same time as me worked in the same high-quality, high-paid jobs in one industry, thereby contributing to the local economy. The supply chain is huge and the technical skills are high.

We need to move forward. The project that started in 2007 to 2009 is on track. We now have new developers in Hitachi with proven technology and capacity, and I know that, working with the Welsh Government, the local community, local government and the UK Government, we can move forward on the project and produce high-quality jobs. There is some £12 billion of investment, which I remind Members—I have raised this enough times—is the equivalent of the London Olympics being invested in north-west Wales. There is huge potential to develop the economies of Anglesey, Conwy, Gwynedd and the whole of north Wales. Indeed, it is the biggest project in Wales in terms of jobs—construction jobs and ongoing jobs as well.

The Minister is aware of this, but I also want to talk about small module reactors and the potential for them. I met with the Advanced Manufacturing Research Centre in Sheffield and have also visited. It has got all these companies together so that we can forge the modules for nuclear reactors with British steel in the United Kingdom and deliver the kits to different locations. Trawsfynydd is ideally located for that. It has a welcoming community that would play host, and it has the infrastructure in place. What we need, once again, is for BEIS to stop sitting on reports and papers and to start making announcements. That is what the business world and local communities want to hear: the trade unions and business working together to develop these high-skilled jobs.

I could also talk about many other projects. Orthios wants to develop an eco-park in my constituency. It was not successful in the auctions—the auctions are cumbersome, and it did not meet the criteria. We need to simplify those criteria. The threshold of 299 MW has, I think, been reduced to 150 MW, so it did not qualify.

We also have great offshore wind projects. My hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) may interject, or he may wait—he is now a patient Front Bencher and statesman—and respond in his speech. Many people opposed the offshore project, including the previous Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones), who I remember lobbying the Welsh Affairs Committee when we went to north Wales, saying, “Save our shore,” because the project was not wanted. It has now developed and was a flagship of the Conservative-led coalition Government in which he served. He suddenly changed his mind on that and then flew the flag for wind farm development. My point is that sometimes these projects are controversial and appear costly when looked at, but they are a worthwhile investment because they produce low-carbon energy off stream and jobs in localities. Celtic Array Rhiannon, just off my constituency, would have been the biggest offshore wind farm. That was aborted in many ways because of the mechanism as well as technology developments, but the potential is still there.

I am conscious that I have taken a lot of time, but I want to talk about distribution and transmission. Hon. Members will be aware that British Gas hiked its gas prices and that many other companies, including Scottish Power, have highlighted that the high cost of distribution and transmission has pushed bills up. I am sure, Mr Paisley, that you are diligent and look at your bill either online or in paper form, like I do. When we look at it, we see that 25% is for distribution and transmission costs. That is a huge amount of the bill.

If we are serious about reducing and capping energy prices, we need to look at distribution costs. The national grid is a monopoly—there is no competition in it—and it almost holds developers at ransom. I know it is regulated, but it does not work. Had there been a different result in the general election, the Labour party would have nationalised it or introduced a not-for-profit model, like we have for water in Wales. We are used to not-for-profit organisations, which reinvest all their money into infrastructure. Welsh Water—Dŵr Cymru—is an excellent example of that. Instead of paying directors in the United States of America and shareholders, it puts the money back into the communities in which it works.

The proposal for pylons across Anglesey and north-west Wales is controversial: 1950s-style pylons are to be attached to 21st-century nuclear power. National Grid needs to listen to the communities it is working with and look at undergrounding and subsea rather than pylons.

Finally, we need to deal with energy prices. As I have said, Wales has high bills compared with the rest of the United Kingdom. Transmission is cited as one of the reasons for that. There are also higher levels of fuel poverty in Wales and pockets of fuel poverty. I know there are issues elsewhere in the United Kingdom, but we do need to address that. When we invest properly in new technology, we are creating a better country and high-skilled jobs. If I had more time, I would go into energy poverty issues, but we do need to deal with them.

The coalition Government changed the criteria for measuring fuel poverty. They were archaic in many ways—the Queen was in fuel poverty because a high percentage of Buckingham Palace’s outgoings were on energy—but the serious point is that many people in Wales, in areas that produce a lot of energy, are paying a higher price and are in fuel poverty. The Welsh Assembly and devolved Administrations have done good work in that area, and I hope that the Government are listening. There needs to be more work on that as we go forwards.

I called for the debate because I believe there is huge potential for Wales to be a huge contributor to the United Kingdom’s industrial strategy when it comes to energy and manufacturing. We have successful projects going forward, which is good for Wales, for the United Kingdom, for Welsh businesses and for the consumer. They will reduce carbon emissions into the environment and help to deal with climate change. The skills issue, raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Chris Elmore), is essential. These projects create clusters of high-skilled science parks and faculties for research and development, which link into higher and further education institutes. This is a win-win situation.

I support the Government’s principle of an industrial strategy. They talked about nuclear and energy as being part of that. Electric cars are a good thing, but we need to get on with it. We need to press the reset button and get these projects going. We need to invest in them and work together to produce the low-carbon economy that the Minister, the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and everyone in the Chamber wants to see. Wales can be the pioneer, creating the jobs, the technology and the energy that the country needs.

I hope that the Minister is in listening mode and that he has some answers for us. If he does not, I hope he will pass these points on to the BEIS Minister, who may have the grace to come to the next debate with “energy” in the title. Wales is part of the United Kingdom and part of the industrial strategy, and Ministers need to be aware of that. Wales is a forward-looking country when it comes to many things, including energy. We want the best for the people we come here to represent and we want a better, clean environment, clean air, and climate change to be dealt with. We want to play a leading part in that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) on securing the debate. In March last year, I stood in the main Chamber and spoke in the St David’s day debate about how accustomed to waiting for things we are in Wales. We waited so long for rail electrification, which is now merely another broken promise from the Government, and we waited for the Welsh national team to reach the European championships. That one was worth waiting for.

[Albert Owen]

We beat Northern Ireland as well.

[Carolyn Harris]

No comment. We were also waiting for Charles Hendry’s review on the Swansea bay tidal lagoon, which was published 10 months later. It was conclusive, and it provided the assurance that the Government sought on whether tidal lagoons could play a cost-effective role in the UK energy mix. It recommended moving forward with a pathfinder lagoon in Swansea bay

“as soon as is reasonably practicable”.

That was eight months ago, and once again we are still waiting.

Since the review’s publication, the Government have made no concerted effort to proceed. The Conservative party’s manifesto for the 2017 general election merely touched on renewable energy in Wales, with a promise to

“explore ways to harness Welsh natural resources for the generation of power”,

but failed to make any commitment to the Swansea bay tidal lagoon. By comparison, all other major political parties committed in their manifestos that it should happen as a priority. Since the election, we have heard nothing more from the Government about any plans to develop the project.

We all know that the tidal lagoon is the way forward; it harnesses natural power from the rise and fall of the tides, so offers an entirely predictable year-round supply. It is a guaranteed power source for generations to come, and the long-term cost benefits speak for themselves. The Welsh Labour Government, local councils and city regions all support a tidal lagoon in Swansea. Welsh businesses, community leaders and the people of Wales and Swansea support it. Swansea is ready for this now.

There are many benefits that will have immediate impacts on the economy and the community. The lagoon will bring an estimated 2,000 new jobs to the region, and there will be a demand for approximately 100,000 tonnes of locally sourced steel. The tidal lagoon already has 1,300 British businesses registered on its supply chain database. This is a golden opportunity to use British resources to develop British industry in Wales. Why are we stalling?

In his review, Sir Charles Hendry said:

“We can either stand back and watch other countries take the lead…or we can decide that we should do what the UK has done so well in the past—spotting an opportunity, developing the technology and creating an industry.”

As Britain moves into a post-Brexit world, we need to ask whether we want to be leaders or followers. Today, I ask the Minister that very question. Are we ready to be world leaders and develop this new energy source in south Wales, or are we going to be left behind waiting, this time for someone else to steal our lead? We cannot afford to let this slip through our fingers. We need an answer. We need the lagoon, and we need it now.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Ruane]

The big difference between what occurred under Labour and under the Conservatives is that the communities were left high and dry under the Conservatives. It was a political decision to close those mines. It was spite because of the industrial action by the miners. That was the big difference, and those communities are still suffering today. I want to move on to more modern times, but I thought I would just give the historical perspective.

[Albert Owen]

I hear this argument from the Conservatives about closures under the Wilson and Callaghan Governments. Those mines were exhausted; there was no coal left—that was one reason why they closed them —or they were dangerous and flooding. That was why they closed them down; it was not for political reasons, but for economic reasons.

[Chris Ruane]

I will move on now, Mr Paisley.

We now live in greener, cleaner times, but the Conservative Government’s attitude to energy, and especially renewable energy, in Wales has not changed. I was privileged to open Wales’s first offshore wind farm—in fact, according to Wikipedia, it was the UK’s first major renewable power project—which was located off the coast of my constituency, off Rhyl and Prestatyn. North Hoyle was a pilot, test-bed project for this new industry in the UK. It had the full support of the Welsh Government, the UK Labour Government, the local MP—me—and Ann Jones, the Assembly Member. Can I ask the Minister whether he supported that project—the wind farms off north Wales—when it was proposed?

--- Later in debate ---

[Guto Bebb]

I believe that it was the hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) who commented that good things are worth waiting for; that was certainly the case with the Welsh football team’s appearance at the European championships last year. I would rather have a good decision made in time than a rushed decision. This debate has highlighted the previous Labour Government’s decisions to invest in all sorts of concepts in Wales, but it is fair to say that by the time the coalition came into government, we were paying the price for how the Labour Government dealt with public money. It is much better to have a decision made on sound grounds, which is what we will provide, than an early decision.

[Albert Owen]

The Minister is engaging in the knockabout that he said earlier he did not like. What I was arguing in my contribution was that we must make difficult decisions and investments in first-of-a-kind technology, to get that technology going. We did it in solar and wind, and we are reaping the benefits; I believe that we can do it in tidal as well, and the review says so. We have a competent Minister in Charles Hendry, who delivered it. He knows his onions. What we are getting from this Government is prevarication and pushback.

[Guto Bebb]

I welcome that intervention, but the hon. Gentleman would be entirely unreasonable to state that the Hendry report included a comprehensive financial review. It is only fair for the Departments in question and the Government to take the issue seriously.

[Albert Owen]

I am sorry, but I need to establish this. I have been trying to tie this issue into the electricity market reform and the mechanisms set up by this Government. The Hendry review fits into that. We have cost-effective mechanisms and capacity mechanisms. For joined-up thinking, we now need a decision from Government.

[Guto Bebb]

That is the same question that I have been asked several times in Welsh questions and in this debate. The answer is the same: we will provide the right answer in due course, but it is important that we take our time to consider all the implications.

--- Later in debate ---

[Albert Owen]

I will not take two minutes, because Members who are here for the next debate missed my opening remarks; they would be at a loss if I came to a lengthy conclusion.

Welsh Members of Parliament are passionate about energy in Wales. We have a good record; we pioneered many technologies in the past, and we want to do so in the future. I take on board what the Minister said about the continuation of renewables policy, but the heavy lifting was done by the previous Government. This is the time and the opportunity for the Government to show their credentials. They started the Hendry review; it is time for them to respond positively to that review and to move forward.

I give the Government nine out of 10 on new nuclear. We need to move forward on small module reactors. We need to be pioneers. I want Wales to be central to the industrial strategy, which it can and will be if the Wales Office, BEIS and others work with the Welsh Government, with business and with the community, so that Wales is at the forefront of energy in the United Kingdom.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered energy in Wales.

Oral Answers to Questions

Albert Owen Excerpts

Wednesday 6th September 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There are far too many noisy private conversations taking place in the Chamber. I want to hear the views of the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) on the matter of tidal lagoons.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

As has been indicated, the Hendry review was set up by the Conservative party, and the framework to finance these big projects was set up by the Conservatives. It is time, now, to stop talking and start delivering for Wales. I urge the Wales Office to stand up for Wales on this project and deliver for Wales.

[Guto Bebb]

The hon. Gentleman is undoubtedly a champion of energy projects across Wales and, indeed, in his own constituency of Anglesey. He will understand, as I do, that such decisions must be right in relation to the costs for the taxpayer and the energy consumer. We will ensure that the decision, when it is made, takes all issues into account, and that it is right for the energy consumer and the people of Wales.