European Union (Withdrawal Arrangements) Bill
Fleur Anderson ExcerptsFriday 6th December 2024
(2 weeks, 3 days ago)
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Jim Allister
I will when I have dealt with some other points.
That is an assault upon the sincerity and efficacy of those who dare to say, “If we are part of the United Kingdom, we need to be treated as part of the United Kingdom.” The hon. Member for Belfast South and Mid Down (Claire Hanna) did not explain why she thinks it right to disenfranchise her constituents and to reject a workable and practical solution. Those who reject a workable and practical solution are those who do not want such a solution in respect of the Irish border. That was very clear from her intervention.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Fleur Anderson)
Several years ago, former Prime Minister Boris Johnson told us that there was an oven-ready deal. That was clearly not the case, because we are still discussing this. The hon. and learned Member has mentioned mutual enforcement, but nowhere in the world does mutual enforcement happen wholesale under trading regulations between countries. The only workable deal that has been struck was reached not by politics, but through a pragmatic working out, and that is the Windsor framework. Is he selling something that cannot actually work? The mutual enforcement idea has been described by the EU Commission as magical thinking.
Jim Allister
I remind the Minister that the magical thinking came from the EU itself, through Jonathan Faull and his colleagues, who made that very suggestion. And why would what I suggest not work? If the EU is our friend—if we trust it and it trusts us—why would it not trust us to keep our word on imposing its standards on our goods entering its territory? If that does not work, then it is time to talk about alternatives, but that proposal should be the starting point. There was the whimsical dismissal that it would not work, even though it has never been tried. The really chilling thing about the Minister’s intervention is its subtext: “Suck it up, Northern Ireland. You’re no longer a full part of the United Kingdom. You will just live like a colony of the EU, under its laws in 300 areas. We have no empathy and no desire to fix it; we will just leave you in that position.” That is the chilling import of her intervention.
Peter Dowd
My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. We have to be very careful of the law of unintended consequences when we go down a particular path.
Issues are bound to arise that either no one thought about or thought would have significance outside of an abstract environment but subsequently became significant, or that were parked so that we could come back to them at a later date. The reality, as we found throughout the whole post-referendum period—oven-ready this and oven-ready that—is that lots of things that were parked are coming back to bite. The problem with that, as I said, is the law of unseen and ignored consequences—those things are waiting around the corner, and turn up like an uninvited and unwelcome guest in our house.
Please bear with me, Madam Deputy Speaker, on the potential unintended consequences of coming out of a treaty. Imagine what would happen if we decided to abrogate the North Atlantic treaty—which, of course, no one would dream of doing. We know there would certainly be huge consequences to such an action. I suspect Members understand there would be pretty immediate and most probably predictable consequences to that. However, it is sometimes the unpredictability of taking actions that comes back to haunt us.
The same could be said for other treaties, which may appear to be of little significance and consequence in the short term, but which might take on a whole new persona down the line. I am not sure that many people would initially grasp the consequences of, say, breaching the Antarctic treaty, but there would be consequences in due course. If we abrogate a treaty, or part of a treaty, it is unlikely that we can then somehow revisit it, change domestic law and expect other countries to accept that.
I will finish on this point, because it is important. There are other treaties that we have to look to—I could go into detail on them, but I will not. What about— [Interruption.] Well, if Members insist. How about the 1963 nuclear test ban treaty? What would happen if we decided to tweak that a little bit through domestic law?
Peter Dowd
Precisely—my hon. Friend on the Front Bench says it would be dangerous, and it would be. What about the key provisions of the outer space treaty? What about the agreement establishing the European Bank for Reconstruction and Redevelopment? On and on it goes.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Fleur Anderson)
Let me begin by expressing thanks to all those who have contributed to this debate so far—I am sure that there will be many more after me—and to the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister). He has set out his view to the House with the same ardour as he did a fortnight ago, although at greater length than he was allowed to in Westminster Hall, and he made his case during his time in Stormont as well.
It is important to restate to him what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland said to this House a fortnight ago, which is that the Government want Northern Ireland to prosper and flourish as an important part of the Union. On that, many of us will find agreement. We are here to do what is best for the people of Northern Ireland. I also reiterate the Government’s commitment to both the Windsor framework and to the UK internal market. It was on that point that the Secretary of State respectfully disagreed with the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim in this House a fortnight ago.
I will set out the Government’s objection to this Bill, which is not compatible with international law, does not account for Northern Ireland’s unique circumstances, and would take away powers that are given to the Northern Ireland Assembly to make decisions about Northern Ireland. It would result in a regulatory black hole that would be very bad for businesses, jobs, growth, the Northern Ireland economy and the rest of the United Kingdom.
I will start by outlining some of the good news for the Northern Ireland economy—news that shows what the Windsor framework, the prospect of stability, the Executive returning, and the stability of a new Labour Government are doing for the economic outlook in Northern Ireland. The Northern Ireland composite economic index indicates that economic output increased by 0.4% over the quarter to June 2024 and by 2.3% over the year. Ulster University’s economic policy centre shows that Northern Ireland has a forecasted growth rate of 1.4% in 2024 and 1.7% in 2025. The region’s economy is performing better than was expected at the start of the year. This has been driven by strong growth in employment, particularly in the transport, construction and health sectors.
The Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency’s interdepartmental business register shows that the number of businesses registered for VAT or pay-as-you-earn operating in Northern Ireland in 2022 is estimated to have risen by 1,550 since 2021 to 77,640, and is continuing to increase. I could go on and on; I have a longer list of the good news stories for Northern Ireland. The economy is working, but all the businesses I speak to talk about the need for stability, and the underlying premise of this Bill would change that stability. We would go into uncertainty and chaos, which would not be good for the Northern Ireland economy.
Jim Shannon
Honestly and sincerely, each one of us on the Unionist Benches who has concerns has presented examples of where things are not working, and the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister) introduced the Bill to address those issues. I gave two examples of businesses, and I could give many more if you, Madam Deputy Speaker, were to let me, but I know that you will not. The Minister might say that what has been done is positive, but for us there is not positivity. Constituents with businesses have told me that they will no longer be able to trade, to have a business, or to provide employment and pay wages, and that has to be addressed. Those are the issues that we are raising, Minister. Tell us what will happen.
Fleur Anderson
I listened carefully to the examples that the hon. Gentleman gave on behalf of his constituents. They are concerning, and we need to listen to them carefully. I absolutely understand the concerns raised by other Members in this debate as well. It is useful to have this debate, so that we can talk about those issues, but without the Windsor framework, there would be no framework from within which to negotiate changes. Many changes have been made since the establishment of the Windsor framework, and that shows that it can flex, allow negotiation, and allow for practices and schemes, such as the internal market scheme, that enable the smooth flow of trade. That is the benefit of having the Windsor framework, rather than ditching it.
Jim Allister
The Minister talked about the flexibility of the Windsor framework in allowing change. Of course, the Windsor framework was not able to change one word of the substantial content of the protocol, because the protocol involved giving the EU control over the vast swathes of our economy that are under those 300 areas of law. It involved putting Northern Ireland under the EU’s customs code. Only if that is reversed can Northern Ireland return to the UK internal market and be retrieved from the EU single market. The Windsor framework does none of that, and even with the greatest will in the world, it is not capable of doing any of that. It can tinker; it cannot change.
Fleur Anderson
I will come to his important point on the 300 areas of laws, because it is important to put that in context. However, I reiterate that having a framework within which to negotiate is better for all those areas than not having one, resetting things and trying to do in just three months what has been done and talked about for the past eight years. That is what this Bill would do.
I will cover the points made by the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim and by others. They were sincerely made, but the Government sincerely disagree. Before I come to the substance of the Bill, it is important that this House should deal in facts, and I am afraid that the opening speech of the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim contained a number of factual inaccuracies that it is important to correct. He claimed that a Stormont brake is nothing more than a request from the Assembly for the law to be disapplied. Back-seat driving was referred to. That is incorrect. In fact, schedule 6B of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 places a strict legal duty on the Government to act where the brake is validly used by Members of the Northern Ireland Assembly.
The hon. and learned Gentleman has used hyperbolic and frankly incendiary language, impugning the motives of our partners and allies, all the while ignoring the fact that this House voted for the arrangements that now apply. I can only presume that he supports the sovereignty of this Parliament. Indeed, he has opposed the existence of the Northern Ireland Assembly under the Good Friday agreement, so he should reflect on the fact that the Windsor framework represents the democratic will of this House. He made repeated reference to the 300 areas where EU law is applicable to Northern Ireland. He ignores the fact that, under the Windsor framework, more than 1,700 pages of EU law, with accompanying European Court of Justice jurisdiction, have been disapplied. They cover areas such as VAT, medicines, which were referred to, and food safety; the UK Government can decide on them, and UK courts can interpret issues to do with them. I have my own views on the whole process, but that was faithfully applied after the democratic vote to withdraw from the EU.
Fleur Anderson
I will give way, but I will not do so too much, as I will not have time to go through all my points otherwise.
Jim Allister
Are there, or are there not, 300 areas of law that are now beyond the legislative reach of this House and the Assembly because they lie within the purview of the European Parliament? Is that true or false?
Fleur Anderson
There was this trilemma, involving the integrity of the UK internal market; avoiding a hard border on the island of Ireland; and respecting that our EU partners have a legitimate interest, and being able to co-ordinate trade with it. Those 300 regulations, which are a very small amount of the whole, allow for things like dairy farmers moving milk over the border and back, which I am sure the hon. and learned Gentleman would agree is necessary. They allow for smooth movement of trade. Those remaining regulations enable businesses in Northern Ireland to go about their business.
The hon. and learned Gentleman has claimed that the vast majority of veterinary medicines are at risk of being discontinued at the end of next year. That is also incorrect. He is right that there are ongoing issues that the Government are working hard with industry and farmers to address, and I am glad that they have been raised by Members today. However, he is simply wrong to say that the vast majority of veterinary medicines are at risk, and engagement with industry suggests no such thing.
The hon. and learned Gentleman claimed that the Windsor framework has caused shortages in medicines for diabetes. Again, that is incorrect. Various factors can sometimes give rise to gaps in medicine supplies across the United Kingdom. The overwhelming majority of medicines are in good supply, and we have well-established processes to manage supply issues. His claim that such issues are in any way a result of the Windsor framework, or are specific to Northern Ireland, is wrong.
The hon. and learned Gentleman held up the Good Friday agreement and asked where it demands that there be no border infrastructure on the island of Ireland. I know he has his own reservations about that agreement; perhaps that is why the facts have not been understood. That agreement was one of the proudest achievements of the last Labour Government, and the peace and security it has produced are premised in no small part on the normalisation of security. The absence of a hard border is an overwhelmingly good thing. The hon. and learned Gentleman asked for quotes, and I shall oblige him. The agreement committed to a normalisation of security arrangements and practices, and committed the British Government to
“the objective of as early a return as possible to normal security arrangements”.
The common travel area has existed for more than a century, and is integral to the movement of people and goods on the island of Ireland.
Fleur Anderson
I am going to make some progress. To the Government’s mind, this commitment to normal security arrangements could not be met, under the common travel area arrangements, with a hard border of the sort that the Bill would institute.
The hon. and learned Gentleman indicated that, come what may, he wants his part of the UK enabled to follow the rest out of the EU. I need not remind him that the whole of the UK left the European Union, and that the debate has been settled. We can see that he would prefer that damaging hard border for Northern Ireland.
Sammy Wilson
First, will the Minister accept that the arrangements referred to in the Belfast agreement were security arrangements—army watchtowers and Army posts along the border? Secondly, despite what she has said about the common travel area, does she accept that guards are stopping and searching vehicles on roads in and out of Northern Ireland, to take people off them, because they believe that they are illegal immigrants? The common travel area is not even being respected by the Irish Government.
Fleur Anderson
There are absolutely minimal stops along the border. It is not a hard border, but circumstances would be very different under the Bill, which implies an ideological hard Brexit—
Gavin Robinson
I am very grateful to the Minister, but could I just cautiously and gently urge her to draw back from the comments she has made about the movement and security around the border? One of the most incendiary things to occur during the discussions with the European Union and the British Government was Leo Varadkar showing a copy of The Irish Times that displayed a picture of a border post that was blown up by the IRA during the troubles, and suggesting that the trade arrangements could lead to the same thing. He was wrong then, and I think the Minister is in danger of stepping into that territory today.
Fleur Anderson
I hope the right hon. Member understands that I am talking about the difference between a hard border and a soft border. The Windsor framework enables the smooth flow of trade, which is good for businesses on both sides of the border and also safeguards the Union. The Windsor framework does not damage the Union; it actually strengthens it and ensures that it can continue.
Fleur Anderson
I will make some progress now, because time is running out in this debate and I want to get to the end.
On the consent vote, it is simply wrong to claim that all major decisions in Northern Ireland require cross-community agreement. As the hon. Member for Belfast South and Mid Down (Claire Hanna) pointed out, cross-community agreement was not required for Northern Ireland to leave the EU and is not a requirement for constitutional change, in line with the principle of consent in the Good Friday agreement. The reality is that the Good Friday agreement never envisaged a device such as the consent vote, so the arrangements for that vote were determined by this House and the amendments that it made to the Northern Ireland Act.
Let me briefly thank right hon. and hon. Members who have contributed to the debate, including my hon. Friend the Member for Bootle (Peter Dowd), the right hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson), the hon. Members for North Down (Alex Easton) and for Belfast South and Mid Down, the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith), my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing Southall (Deirdre Costigan) and the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart), and others who have yet to contribute. I am grateful to Members for raising many issues, which I will take away. I am also grateful for the comments from the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar and others about continuing to speak, and about dialogue.
I turn now to the substance of the Bill. I shall set out three reasons why the Government cannot support it today. First, the Bill cannot be said to be compatible with international law. I know that the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim has made assertions about international law, but the absolute truth is that the Bill is premised on replacing the agreed measures under the Windsor framework with unilateralism and uncertainty. In the circumstances, that would constitute a breach of the UK’s agreements, which would be unlawful under international law.
This Government are committed to the rule of the law and to meeting the UK’s international obligations, and the Bill contains a set of unilateral measures that do no such thing. This is not an abstract matter; it is a matter of consequence. We must be clear that it is never in any nation’s interests to flagrantly disregard international law and treaty obligations. Doing so would weaken our standing abroad and our prospects for beneficial international agreements in the future, which matters, particularly for Northern Ireland.
As the House knows, the Government were elected with a mandate to reset our relationship with the EU and tear down trade barriers, including by negotiating a sanitary and phytosanitary agreement. Hon. Members have raised concerns about the operation of the Windsor framework, but there is significant potential for practical issues to be improved or addressed through the negotiation of such an agreement. That is in the best interests of Northern Ireland, and it is in the interests of the United Kingdom as a whole, but a nation that turns its back on prior commitments cannot hope to persuade others to enter new and beneficial arrangements.
I know that, as a proud Unionist, the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim will appreciate the potential benefits of such an agreement to Northern Ireland and to strengthening the Union, so I confess that I am somewhat baffled that he is promoting legislation that would be so detrimental to the prospect of securing future agreements. It is playing fast and loose with the rule of law, which is very bad for business. The Bill would create conditions in which businesses and citizens can never be certain about which rules will be respected and which will not. It would create uncertainty over the regulatory framework on which businesses in Northern Ireland now rely to trade, including the ability to trade across the island of Ireland without friction. It would do so automatically by bringing down a hard guillotine on the trading arrangements in just three months, leaving businesses no time to adjust. It would be an economic shock.
In my time working on international development campaigns, I saw at first hand at the World Trade Organisation what regulatory certainty and uncertainty can do for the prospects of small businesses, the jobs they create and the economies they contribute to. I can personally attest that it is better for those businesses to work on the basis of agreed trade arrangements than to leave them stranded in the choppy waters of regulatory uncertainty.
Secondly, the Bill does nothing to account for Northern Ireland’s unique circumstances. Let us be honest: these issues have been discussed, debated, analysed and dissected in this House for nearly a decade now, as other Members have said. They have occupied the political life of the nation for some time, and it is right that they have done so. The concerns of the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim, and those of right hon. and hon. Members from the Democratic Unionist party and the Ulster Unionist party, are real and legitimate, and deserve to be taken seriously. But, although I understand and respect the strength of feeling behind the Bill, I say respectfully to the hon. and learned Gentleman that neither this Bill, nor the similar variations on its proposal that have been advanced over the past nine years, do anything to address the practical issues in a more stable and sustainable manner than the Windsor framework addresses them.
Fleur Anderson
I am going to make progress.
As I said earlier, the core challenge remains the trilemma: how do we preserve the integrity of the UK’s internal market, avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland, and respect the legitimate interests of our EU partners in protecting their single market, just as we seek to protect ours? The Windsor framework provides an answer to a very difficult question. I say simply that, across several elections, the vast majority of right hon. and hon. Members elected to this place have been elected on a platform of avoiding a hard border. For good reason, then, we need to support the Windsor framework.
Thirdly, the Bill would serve to prejudice the democratic decision that the Northern Ireland Assembly is making itself. Last month, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland initiated the progress for the Northern Ireland Assembly to decide on the continued application of articles 5 to 10 of the Windsor framework. That vote is provided for in the Windsor framework and under domestic law, which was strengthened under the terms of “Safeguarding the Union”. It is now a matter for Northern Ireland’s elected representatives to decide on. I am pleased that the elected representatives of the people of Northern Ireland are able, as part of the functioning devolved institutions, to exercise the important democratic scrutiny functions included in the Windsor framework. The Bill would fatally undermine the powers that those in the Assembly have over scrutinising regulations that apply in Northern Ireland.
The Government will only support sustainable arrangements for Northern Ireland that work for business, protect the UK’s internal market and uphold our international obligations. The Windsor framework does just that, and the Government are firmly committed to it, just as stridently as we are committed to the UK internal market and to Northern Ireland flourishing within a strengthened Union. Just as important is that we will be honest with the people of Northern Ireland about what is and is not possible, and what the trade-offs are with various options. There will be no more magical thinking; no reopening of the wardrobe into a political Narnia of mythical solutions to the practical issues that we must consider in respect of trade; and no more simplifications that work as soundbites but do not stand up in reality. At this crucial time, the people of Northern Ireland deserve honesty.
Sir Iain Duncan Smith
Does the Minister not agree that mutual enforcement is, in principle, about using what already exists in terms of trade? In the course of building on the Windsor agreement, might she consider influencing the EU to get rid of the border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom?
Fleur Anderson
I do not know where in the world mutual enforcement has worked. I understand how it can work in some limited ways, but not in the wholesale way outlined by the right hon. Member. I am afraid it is in the tradition of unreal answers to real and complex challenges to which the Windsor framework remains the only credible solution.
Claire Hanna
Will the Minister indulge me for a moment? Can we just kill off this canard about mutual enforcement? The Bill goes much further than suggesting mutual enforcement. It seeks to remove Northern Ireland from the European Court of Justice, and therefore from the single market. It is not just about in-market surveillance; it is about entirely removing our economy, including our agri-foods economy, from the single market. Does the Minister agree that that is why this proposal is magical thinking and why it is simply not on the table?
Fleur Anderson
I thank the hon. Member for mentioning one area in which this process would be disallowed. However, there is a long list of areas on which we are currently working, in which systems are working well, that would be disapplied. We could go back to 1880 and the Acts of Union, when there actually were differences between the island of Ireland and the rest of the UK, and I could say more about those, but I will end my speech by saying this. I believe that if the Bill were passed, far from strengthening our constitutional settlement—although I am sure that the right hon. and learned Member for North Antrim would wish that to be the case—it would weaken the UK’s constitutional foundations and its international standing immeasurably. It would not be good for businesses in Northern Ireland, and it would not be good for the people of Northern Ireland. For those reasons, the Government will be voting against the Bill today.
Oral Answers to Questions
Fleur Anderson Excerpts(3 weeks, 5 days ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Fleur Anderson)
Happy Lancashire Day to you as well, Mr Speaker. The Secretary of State and I were deeply saddened by the recent passing of former UTV political editor Ken Reid, who was a close follower of Northern Ireland oral questions. Our thoughts are with his family and his many peers across journalism.
I recently attended the launch of Invest NI’s business innovation grant, which received £440,000 of UK Government funding. This will complement the Government’s work to target high-growth sectors in Northern Ireland, including the digital and technologies sector, through our industrial strategy.
Chris Murray
My constituency in Edinburgh has two universities, both of which do excellent work with our counterparts in Northern Ireland. Can the Minister tell us how the Government are working with universities to support innovation in Northern Ireland?
Fleur Anderson
It is fantastic to hear of those close links, which are so important for innovation and business growth, in combination with the university sector. Northern Ireland’s universities are key partners in boosting innovation and growth; for example, through the UK Government’s new deal for Northern Ireland, £11 million of funding is helping Queen’s University Belfast’s centre for secure information technologies to deliver a cyber-artificial intelligence hub—a leading cyber-security research centre. This investment is unlocking a further £4.5 million of investment from the private sector.
Dan Aldridge
Free trade across the UK single market, from major tech hubs in London, Edinburgh and Cardiff to smaller towns such as Weston-super-Mare, is vital to supporting innovation in Northern Ireland and across the UK. What steps is the Minister taking to streamline Northern Ireland’s ability to trade with all corners of the UK, and vice versa?
Fleur Anderson
I thank my hon. Friend for raising that point and the connection to Weston-super-Mare. There is a lot of work that we can do to support innovation across the whole country, including through the business innovation grant that I mentioned, which is especially for small and medium-sized enterprises. It offers grants of up to £20,000 to enable those enterprises to come into the market.
Matt Western
Beyond its excellent universities, Northern Ireland is home to major innovative businesses such as Wrightbus, Spirit AeroSystems and Harland & Wolff, which specialise respectively in hydrogen vehicles, composite wing and aerostructure manufacture, and modular construction and shipping. Given the economic importance of those businesses, can I ask the UK Government to look again at the future of the whole-site operation at Spirit, as well as at Harland & Wolff, to ensure that those investments and jobs stay in Northern Ireland?
Fleur Anderson
I thank my hon. Friend for raising the important aspect of business innovation and for mentioning those businesses, which are important to Northern Ireland’s economy. We are working with the Northern Ireland Executive to ensure the best outcome for Short Brothers and its staff in relation to Spirit. The Department for Business and Trade remains in contact with Spirit, Airbus, Boeing and other potential buyers. We want to see an outcome that includes a commitment to develop Short Brothers and its supply chain as part of any acquisition and that provides the best possible opportunity for growth in Northern Ireland. The Department for Business and Trade continues to provide over £13 million of support for Short Brothers’ research and development activity.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
Across these islands, Northern Ireland is at the forefront for fibre broadband due to our confidence and supply deal with the previous Government. Can the Minister indicate what is being done to promote this golden innovative opportunity nationally, which would help small businesses right across Northern Ireland?
Fleur Anderson
This Government are working across the whole of the UK to promote those businesses, and the industrial strategy provides an excellent opportunity to have this discussion. The UK Government are working with businesses, trade unions, local and devolved leaders, experts and international partners to develop that international strategy, which will cement this work and growth. Eight growth-driving sectors have been identified, including some that my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Matt Western) has already identified—advanced manufacturing, clean energy industries, creative industries and so on. The transition to net zero also provides huge opportunities, and we will make the most of them.
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)
Has the Minister yet studied the national semiconductor strategy for Ireland published by the Irish Government? If so, can she say how Northern Ireland will be able to exploit that strategy, and how the whole of the United Kingdom will be able to compete with Ireland, which has plainly identified this as an important growth sector?
Fleur Anderson
I thank the right hon. Member for raising that issue. This is an excellent opportunity to raise something that I have not yet looked at. I will go away and study it, because it sounds like a very important aspect of our joint working. We have many international business opportunities to work with our counterparts in the Republic of Ireland, and I will take it up with them as well.
Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)
May I associate myself with the condolences to the widow and family of the late Ken Reid? The family are constituents of mine in North Antrim, and Ken was such a part of the political architecture.
On innovation, there is no greater trailblazer in Northern Ireland than Wrightbus in my constituency, which has really set the pace on hydrogen. How far have the Government invested in advancing that, and in ensuring that public funds, when they are needed, are there to build the hydrogen infrastructure that is so key to advancing that matter?
Fleur Anderson
I thank the hon. and learned Member for rightly singing the praises of Wrightbus. The transition to net zero presents huge opportunities, as he has identified, for businesses like Wrightbus in Ballymena. It is producing 1,000 low-carbon buses, securing 500 jobs in its factory and creating 1,500 additional jobs across the UK supply chain. This shows that Northern Ireland is leading the way, and we will continue to work on such opportunities through our industrial strategy.
Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Fleur Anderson)
I thank my hon. Friend for raising this issue. I would like to start by paying tribute to Anna Lo, who passed away earlier this month. As the first ethnic minority politician elected to the Assembly, she was a trailblazer, and I extend my sympathies to her family and friends.
The Northern Ireland Assembly currently has no Members from ethnic minorities or ethnic minority backgrounds. I have met many community groups that have raised this matter with me. The key to changing it is the membership and selection processes of the political parties in Northern Ireland, and we should think about what we can all do as Members to speak with people from ethnic minority backgrounds and represent them.
Adam Jogee
I wish the Secretary of State a happy birthday for yesterday—[Interruption.] And a happy Lancashire Day to you, Mr Speaker.
I join the Minister in paying tribute to Anna Lo. Anna was the first non-white Member of the Assembly, but she cannot be the last. I urge the Minister to encourage all parties in the Assembly to redouble their efforts to ensure that all the people of Northern Ireland can look to their Assembly and see someone like them.
Fleur Anderson
I recently met Lilian Seenoi Barr, the first mayor in Northern Ireland from an ethnic minority background, who is showing the way for others. I agree that people must see themselves represented, so I join my hon. Friend in urging all parties across Northern Ireland to look at their selection processes and their invitations to meetings, and to make sure that all parties welcome everyone from every background.
Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)
Jay Basra is a 20-year-old Ulster Unionist candidate who ran in Mid Ulster at the last general election. Jay describes himself as Punjabi-British. When he announced his candidacy, he received a torrent of online abuse, which he described as “dehumanising” and “abhorrent”. He said:
“It reduces me down to my skin colour rather than myself as a person.”
However, he has also said:
“If anything I’m even more determined to run again and increase the Ulster Unionist vote like I did in the general election.”
What words of encouragement does the Minister have for people such as Jay?
Fleur Anderson
I am horrified to hear of that online abuse, and I am horrified to hear of any abuse that any politicians receive. I commend Jay for his courage in saying, “Actually, this is not putting me off. I want to stand again.” The hon. Member is quite right to raise this matter, as we would all want to do, and to show support for Jay and others who want to be able to say that they can stand and not receive such abuse. We should call it out whenever we see it.
Bambos Charalambous (Southgate and Wood Green) (Lab)
Chris Bloore (Redditch) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Fleur Anderson)
White Ribbon Day this week marks the start of 16 days of activism against violence against women and girls. The scale of this violence in our country is unacceptable, and this Government is treating it as the national emergency that it is. Every woman and girl deserves to feel safe wherever she is. That is why the Labour Government have set out our ambition to halve violence against women and girls within a decade. The Government want to take a joined-up approach across the UK, and I have discussed this issue with the First and Deputy First Ministers and the Deputy Prime Minister. We will continue to work collaboratively with the Executive—
Mr Speaker
Order. We want to get to PMQs, but we will not achieve it at this rate.
David Smith
According to Women’s Aid, a fifth of all crime in Northern Ireland is domestic abuse. We know that paramilitary organisations make reporting, confronting or escaping such abuse even more difficult. How are the Government working with the Northern Ireland Executive to break down those coercive barriers to support for women and girls?
Fleur Anderson
I thank my hon. Friend for raising that question. Alongside the alarming femicide statistics, there are other factors that add to the complexity of gender-based violence in Northern Ireland, and it is important to recognise and take action to prevent these factors—paramilitarism is one of them. We need to tackle the grip of paramilitaries to end this abuse.
Alistair Strathern
The theme of this year’s White Ribbon Day is, “It starts with men”. Does the Minister agree that it is incumbent on us all, especially men, to play our part in stamping out violence against women and girls wherever we find it? How is she working with the Executive in Northern Ireland to deliver on our shared mission and do exactly that?
Fleur Anderson
I am delighted to see so many men raising this issue today at Northern Ireland questions. Yesterday, I met with Tahnee McCorry from White Ribbon Northern Ireland, who is working with men in football and Gaelic Athletic Association teams and in prisons. We absolutely all have a role to play to have those difficult conversations and really change our society.
Chris Bloore
The Northern Ireland Executive’s strategic framework to end violence against women and girls acknowledges the rise of online influencers who have a toxic influence on men and boys. Will the Minister provide an update on discussions she has had on sharing best practice on how to challenge these influencers and promote healthier and safer attitudes towards consent and relationships across the UK?
Fleur Anderson
I am very supportive of the Executive’s strategic framework to tackle violence against women and girls. I am in constant dialogue with organisations such as White Ribbon NI to learn and share best practice. That is how we are going to achieve this—in partnership with the Executive. The Government are committed to tackling online abuse and violence against women and girls with the Online Safety Act 2023 and further work we will be doing on this matter.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
Last year in Northern Ireland, six women were murdered by men. All the men have been arrested, and their cases are pending. Last year, some 800 women and children stayed in a Women’s Aid refuge, and 10 babies were born in a refuge. There is an epidemic of violence against women in Northern Ireland. What can the Minister do in discussions with the Northern Ireland Assembly to make that better?
Fleur Anderson
I pay tribute to all the Women’s Aid organisations across Northern Ireland, which do absolutely fantastic work. It is about prevention and provision of services. Tackling online abuse and violence against women and girls wherever we see it—by everyone in this House and across the UK—is the only way that we will change this situation.
Sir Ashley Fox (Bridgwater) (Con)
Does the Minister agree that the low number of police officers in Northern Ireland hinders the fight against violence against women and girls? Will she work with the Executive to ensure that the number of officers is increased to the 7,500 recommended?
Fleur Anderson
Action by police officers is fundamental, and we are looking at how we can change the justice system, as we are doing across the UK, as our target to halve violence against women and girls is essential. It is, however, about much more than that—it is about a whole-of-society change and tackling misogyny wherever we see it. Every organisation needs to get involved in this. Action by the police is one part of it, but it is about so much more than that.
Mike Wood (Kingswinford and South Staffordshire) (Con)
Following on from my hon. Friend’s question, the key to reducing violence against women and girls is, of course, effective policing, which was a clear commitment in New Decade, New Approach. When does the Minister expect policing numbers in Northern Ireland to reach the levels set out in that commitment?
Fleur Anderson
In the Budget, this Government provided a record-breaking devolution settlement of £18.2 billion, with £640 million this year and £1.5 billion next year. It is now up to the Chief Constable to spend those figures.
Draft Terrorism Act 2000 (Alterations to the Search Powers Code for Northern Ireland) Order 2024
Fleur Anderson Excerpts(1 month ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Fleur Anderson)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Terrorism Act 2000 (Alterations to the Search Powers Code for Northern Ireland) Order 2024.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer, and I am grateful to the Committee for being here to consider this instrument. The order was laid before Parliament on 15 October 2024.
The UK, and Northern Ireland in particular, knows all too well the human cost of terrorism. This week sees the 50th anniversary of the Birmingham pub bombings. The vast majority of people in Northern Ireland want it to continue to be a safe and wonderful place in which to live and work. However, despite the work of the Police Service of Northern Ireland and other security services, we know that there is a small minority that continues to want to cause harm. It is important that the PSNI has the tools it needs to allow it to continue to keep people safe. I would like to take this opportunity to thank our former and current police officers and members of the security services, who work so hard and with such courage to keep us safe.
Following the terrorist attack at Fishmongers’ Hall in November 2019, the then Home Secretary commissioned the independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, Jonathan Hall KC, to review the multi-agency public protection arrangements, commonly referred to as MAPPA, which are used to supervise terrorist and terrorist-risk offenders on licence in the community. In response to recommendations made by Jonathan Hall KC following that review, the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022, hereafter referred to as the 2022 Act, established three new powers for counter-terrorism policing: a personal search power, a premises search power and a power of urgent arrest. Those powers were established in 2022.
The order relates to the new power of personal search, the creation of which was also recommended by the “Fishmongers’ Hall Inquests: Prevention of future deaths” report. That power, which came into force on 28 June 2022, was inserted into the Terrorism Act 2000 in section 43C by the 2022 Act and applies UK-wide. The order puts into practice the revised “Code of practice (Northern Ireland) for the authorisation and exercise of stop and search powers relating to sections 43, 43A, 43C and 47A of, and schedule 6B to, the Terrorism Act 2000”, hereafter referred to as the code. A copy of the draft revised code was laid before Parliament on 15 October 2024. The purpose of the code is to provide guidance to officers authorising and conducting stop and search under sections 43, 43A, 43C and 47A of, and schedule 6B to, the Terrorism Act 2000, and protection to persons being searched.
I would like to start by assuring hon. Members that the revisions to the code will not change the manner in which searches are conducted in any way. The amendments should be non-contentious and relate mainly to technical matters. They are intended to provide guidance to the Police Service of Northern Ireland on the search powers in the Terrorism Act 2000. The equivalent code of practice for police in England, Wales and Scotland was updated in 2022. The changes to the Northern Ireland code will align with the code of practice for England, Wales and Scotland, but will not mirror it exactly due to jurisdictional differences.
The revised code builds on work started by previous Ministers in the Northern Ireland Office. I will outline the main revisions. The primary update to the code is the incorporation of the new stop-and-search power provided for by section 43C of the Terrorism Act 2000. The code as amended provides guidance to the Police Service of Northern Ireland, and to officers from police services in England, Wales and Scotland when operating in Northern Ireland, not only on the use of sections 43, 43A and 47A of, and schedule 6B to, the Terrorism Act 2000, as outlined in the original code of practice, but on the use of section 43C.
Section 43C provides a power for a constable to search a terrorist offender who has been released on licence and not recalled, and whose licence includes a search condition. I wish to reassure hon. Members that this power applies only to those who have been convicted and for whom, when released, it was deemed appropriate to have this licence condition included as part of the conditions of their release. Even when the power is included as a licence condition, in order for it to be used, the constable must be satisfied that it is necessary to do so for purposes connected with protecting members of the public from a risk of terrorism. Furthermore, the constable may conduct the search in any place they have access to legally, whether or not that is a place to which the public has access.
In revising the code to include the section 43C power, we have set out for police officers the basic principles for its use, and clarity on its scope. This includes guidance on when the power can be used and the powers of seizure associated with the search power.
The revised code also clearly sets out limitations on the clothing that a person can be required to remove when the section 43C power is being exercised by officers. In keeping with existing stop-and-search powers, police officers exercising the section 43C power may not compel a person to remove any clothing in public except for an outer coat, a jacket or gloves, and an intimate search may not be authorised or carried out under the new power.
Also added to the NI code is an explanation of when the search condition can be added to a licence, specifically to help to manage the risk posed by terrorist offenders on licence who are assessed to be a high or very high risk to the public.
Finally, the code as amended contains some language and formatting differences from the code for Great Britain. However, the purpose and key content of the code remains the same. These differences reflect the devolution of policing and justice functions in Northern Ireland and subsequent differences in approach adopted in different jurisdictions. For example, the code for Great Britain contains an explanation of the basis upon which an offender is to be released on licence, whereas the revised code for Northern Ireland outlines the roles of both the Parole Commission and the Department of Justice in the process.
The Government ran a 12-week public consultation on the proposed amendments to the code of practice, which closed in January 2024. Seven responses were received, six of which were in favour of the revisions, with one response commenting that, as a matter of policy, it would not be appropriate for them to comment. Of the six who responded in favour, five suggested other slight amendments to the code, which were duly considered, with a number being accepted. The full details of those suggestions were published in the consultation response document on the NIO webpages in March 2024.
I hope that hon. Members will agree that, while these revisions are technical, they are important. They align the code of practice used in Northern Ireland with the code used in the rest of the UK, ensuring that this offender management tool is available across the UK. They give guidance to the PSNI in its use of the stop-and-search powers in the Terrorism Act.
This Government are committed to keeping people safe. The fact that the threat level for Northern Ireland-related terrorism in Northern Ireland remains “substantial”, following its reduction in March 2024, is testament to the tremendous efforts of the PSNI and security partners. We must ensure that they have the right and appropriate tools in order to continue to do this.
I know that hon. Members will join me in welcoming the increased additional security funding that will be provided to the PSNI in the next financial year. This £37.8 million of funding, provided in recognition of the unique security situation in Northern Ireland, ensures that the PSNI is equipped to tackle the threat posed by Northern Ireland-related terrorism in Northern Ireland.
The revised code promotes the fundamental principles to be observed by the police, and helps to preserve the effectiveness of, and public confidence in, the use of police powers to stop and search under the Terrorism Act 2000. I very much hope that hon. Members will support these alterations to the code of practice.
Fleur Anderson
I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising those important points about how the code of practice will be put into operation, as well as the wider points about the policing context in Northern Ireland. I also thank other hon. Members for their support.
In terms of intimate search, it is really important to maintain the confidence of the police and for the public to know that there are regulations governing the powers. This is an operational matter; how that is conducted will be up to police officers, but they will know about the very clear limits set on what clothing can be taken off and in which places this can be carried out—I can write to the hon. Gentleman with more detail on these issues.
The code will continue to be reviewed, as all operational matters are. This will now be an operational matter for the Chief Constable in Northern Ireland, but as Ministers we will continue to take a keen interest in the ages and ethnicity of the people that the power is used with. I have been asking questions about all those issues, and we will continue to do so, because it is really important that the powers are used within those confines—they need to be used—and that they are well used, but also that the public have confidence in them and how they are used.
Finally on policing, the Government absolutely recognise the difficult financial position that the PSNI faces, including in terms of police numbers. Policing is largely a devolved matter, as the hon. Gentleman will know, and it is for the Chief Constable to look at additional police numbers, as an operational matter. However, last week’s Budget delivered a record £18.2 billion for the Northern Ireland Executive in 2025-26. This was the largest settlement in real terms in the history of devolution, in recognition of the unique security situation in Northern Ireland. The Government are also making additional security funding payments, but it is up to the Chief Constable as to how he will use them when it comes to additional police numbers. The report on paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland—an additional area of concern—was published in 2015 and was intended to inform ongoing cross-party talks. This remains an area that we are closely watching for any additional funding needed.
To conclude, this statutory instrument is largely technical, but it is important to policing in Northern Ireland, to help the police continue to keep people safe and to have the confidence of everyone across all communities in Northern Ireland. The Government are committed to ensuring that the people of Northern Ireland, as in the rest of the UK, are safe. I therefore commend the order to the Committee.
Question put and agreed to.
Police Funding
Fleur Anderson Excerpts(1 month, 2 weeks ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Fleur Anderson)
It is a great pleasure to respond to this debate and serve under your chairship, Sir Roger. I congratulate the hon. Member for North Down (Alex Easton) on securing this Westminster Hall debate—hopefully the first of many—on such an important and timely topic. I welcome comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Luke Myer), the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister), the shadow Minister the hon. Member for Hamble Valley (Paul Holmes), and the hon. Members for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart), for South Antrim (Robin Swann) and for Wokingham (Clive Jones).
It is important to be talking about safety—safety on our streets and in our homes, workplaces and schools. Wherever we are, everyone deserves to feel safe, and that is vital. Equality of safety goes alongside all the other equalities that we want to see. This Government are supporting frontline policing levels across the country, putting us on track to start to deliver on the pledge to boost visible neighbourhood policing. It is a key mission of this Labour Government to take back our streets and have safer streets. That is also a key mission in the Northern Ireland Executive’s draft programme for government, and we can agree on that whatever party we represent.
I pay tribute to the brave men and women who serve in the PSNI and work tirelessly to keep the people of Northern Ireland safe. The commitment and bravery of the PSNI is shown every day; however, two examples vividly demonstrate its commitment and dedication. The terrible attack on Detective Chief Inspector John Caldwell last year reminded us that there is still a small minority in Northern Ireland who wish to cause harm to those who serve. More recently, officers sustained serious injuries while ensuring the safety of others during the violent disorder this summer.
In early August, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and I met with PSNI and Northern Ireland Fire & Rescue Service members in Belfast during that week of protest to offer our thanks in person. We heard many stories of bravery. The Prime Minister also met injured PSNI officers. It was clear to us all that the response of PSNI to the disorder was a testament to their dedication and ability to deliver safety and security in Northern Ireland. We owe all those who serve in the PSNI our gratitude. The Government will continue to work alongside the Northern Ireland Executive to support the PSNI. In response to the shadow Minister’s question, we will continue to have conversations with the Chief Constable and other members of the PSNI as a matter of course.
In recognition of the unique security situation in Northern Ireland, the UK Government make additional contributions to the PSNI through additional security funding, as has been mentioned. As we announced in the spending review last week, we have increased that funding for the PSNI for the financial year 2025-26. It will be provided with £37.8 million in additional security funding. It was previously provided with £32 million a year, and that amount had been in place since 2015-16. The increased funding that this Government have provided will give the PSNI the resources it needs to tackle the threat posed by Northern Ireland-related terrorism in Northern Ireland and allow it to continue to keep people safe.
The Government recognise the difficult financial position that the PSNI faces. However, policing is largely a devolved matter in Northern Ireland, and the PSNI’s main budget is allocated by the Northern Ireland Department of Justice.
Jim Shannon
The hon. Member for North Down (Alex Easton) and I had a particularly difficult time about a year and a half ago. There were special circumstances—paramilitaries were feuding—so funding for our area had to be above and beyond. The police service was able to give officers more overtime, but it was only able to do so because it had the resources. Without the extra resources and extra money that was provided due to the special circumstances, the police would be unable to police.
Fleur Anderson
The need for more funding is understood, which is why I was glad that more money was delivered to Northern Ireland in last week’s Budget. It was good news for Northern Ireland. The Budget delivered a record £18.2 billion for the Northern Ireland Executive for 2025-26—the largest settlement in real terms in the history of devolution. That includes a £1.5 billion top-up through Barnett consequentials for 2025-26: £1.2 billion for day-to-day spending and £270 million for capital investment. What will be done with that money? It is for the Executive to set a budget for all Northern Ireland Departments and for the Department of Justice to allocate funding to the PSNI. How that funding is used is an operational matter for the PSNI and the Chief Constable.
The PSNI estate—police stations—was raised by the hon. Member for North Down. The allocation of that money and questions of whether police stations are open or not are entirely operational matters for the Chief Constable, who is accountable to the Northern Ireland Policing Board.
Paramilitarism has been mentioned. The effort to tackle paramilitarism is led by the Northern Ireland Executive’s “Tackling Paramilitary Activity, Criminality and Organised Crime” programme, which was established after the “Fresh Start” agreement. The programme is working to tackle the presence of paramilitaries through evidence-based early interventions, targeted law enforcement measures and initiatives that provide direct support to help build safer communities who are resilient to paramilitarism. The UK Government provide 50% of the funding—£8 million a year—for the cross-Executive programme for tackling paramilitary activity and organised crime. As was announced in the spending review, that has been secured through to March 2026.
One strand of this work is the Paramilitary Crime Task Force, the PCTF, which is a multi-agency taskforce including officers from the PSNI, the National Crime Agency and His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. Over the period from April 2023 to March 2024, the PCTF made 107 disruptions and 83 arrests, charged and reported 115 people and conducted 175 searches. The PCTF seized drugs with a street value of more than £1.3 million and illicit tobacco with a street value of more than £2.8 million, along with 41 firearms and weapons, of which eight were explosive devices.
The Executive programme for tackling paramilitary activity and organised crime has provided PSNI with £5.6 million in 2023-24, and the same for 2024-25. PSNI police numbers have been raised several times—rightly so. A well-staffed and resourced PSNI is vital to the success and stability of Northern Ireland. I am aware that the PSNI restarted recruitment earlier this year, and that the Chief Constable has been speaking to the Department of Justice to discuss funding to allow that to continue. Recruitment and retention are absolutely vital to delivering effective policing. Policing in Northern Ireland, apart from national security, is a devolved matter, and police numbers are a matter for the Department of Justice and the Chief Constable. As of 1 October 2024, PSNI has 6,303 full-time officers. I am aware that the Chief Constable aims to lift officer numbers to 7,000 within three years. That will be challenging, but I understand that he is speaking to the Department of Justice about it and we will continue to support him.
The hon. Member for North Down will be aware of the Executive’s draft programme for government, which was published in September. I note the programme’s recognition that PSNI officer numbers are low, and welcome the Executive’s commitment to grow police officer numbers to 7,500 in line with New Decade, New Approach. As I have said, last week’s Budget delivered the largest settlement in real terms in the history of devolution, including that £1.5 billion top-up through the Barnett consequentials. The money is not ringfenced, and the Northern Ireland Department of Finance will work with Executive Departments to allocate it based on budget pressures.
I welcome the fact that the data breach was raised by the right hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson). In response to the August 2023 PSNI data breach, the PSNI worked closely with the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland to fully understand the cost implications of its response to the very serious incident. The UK Government granted an initial, non-repayable reserve claim of £15 million after the data breach. That was communicated to the Department of Finance and intended to assist in addressing the challenges to the PSNI budget caused by the data breach. In February 2024, however, the Department of Finance confirmed that the funding was not required and PSNI costs could be absorbed within the NI budget. No additional funding was required from the UK Government, but we continue to work together in ways like that to ensure that policing can continue.
Gavin Robinson
Would the Minister accept that that was in relation to the likely fine from the Information Commissioner’s Office? The fine was greatly reduced, but there is no cover or resource allocation for the level of compensation that will be due to the thousands of officers that were involved. That figure is at £240 million.
Fleur Anderson
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for raising that ongoing issue, but I will need to conclude now. I agree with the hon. Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) that ending violence against women and girls must be a priority in policing. Altogether, it has been demonstrated that the positive steps Northern Ireland has taken to become a more peaceful and prosperous place are ongoing, and reflect the commitment of communities from across Northern Ireland to build a safer place to live and work. The work of the PSNI, alongside other security partners, is a crucial component in the delivery of a safer Northern Ireland. I am delighted that the Government have been able to increase the additional security funding provided to PSNI to allow it to continue to do that.
Northern Ireland
Fleur Anderson Excerpts(1 month, 4 weeks ago)
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Fleur Anderson
The Ballymena bus manufacturer, Wrightbus, recently signed a deal worth £100 billion to supply more than 1,000 buses to Go-Ahead.
[Official Report, 23 October 2024; Vol. 755, c. 261.]
Written correction submitted by the Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, the hon. Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson):
Fleur Anderson
The Ballymena bus manufacturer, Wrightbus, recently signed a deal worth £500 million to supply more than 1,000 buses to Go-Ahead.
Oral Answers to Questions
Fleur Anderson Excerpts(2 months ago)
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Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Fleur Anderson)
Although energy costs have come down, they remain too high. Our priority is to ensure access to energy is affordable and secure for consumers. That is why this Government have established Great British Energy, which will operate across the whole UK, including Northern Ireland. The Department for Energy Security and Net Zero and the Northern Ireland Department for the Economy are working together positively on the GB Energy Bill.
Jim Shannon
It is a pleasure to see the Minister in her place and I wish her well; we have been friends for some time. She will be aware of Northern Ireland’s unique energy profile: we are more heavily dependent and reliant on oil than other nations in the United Kingdom, with some 68% of people in Northern Ireland using oil. Was that taken into consideration when the Government determined to cut the winter fuel allowance? What discussions were had with the Northern Ireland Executive in relation to doing so?
Fleur Anderson
I am aware that two thirds of Northern Ireland’s homes use oil. The decision to means test winter fuel payments was not a decision the Government wished to make, but a result of the Conservative’s £22 billion black hole. In Northern Ireland, the Executive have decided that winter fuel payments will continue to be paid to households where someone receives pension credit. I have checked the figures; in Northern Ireland it is estimated that over 26,000 people could be eligible for pension credit and the winter fuel payment but are not receiving them. I encourage anyone who is eligible, or knows someone who could be, to check and apply if they can.
Jerome Mayhew (Broadland and Fakenham) (Con)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Fleur Anderson)
Northern Ireland is a great place to live, work and invest. That is something the Secretary of State and I have promoted in our over 120 visits and meetings. Growth is a key mission of this Government, which is why we are supporting UK businesses through securing further investment and through our industrial strategy. The Chancellor will set out the steps this Government are taking to support growth across the UK on 30 October.
Clive Jones
Businesses in Northern Ireland are struggling to operate in a constantly shifting regulatory environment that is deterring investment and decreasing business confidence. It is no wonder that a third of UK businesses want the Government to reduce Brexit-related barriers, such as customs procedures, according to a recent survey by Santander. A starting point would be agricultural trade. Will the Minister update the House on progress in negotiating a new veterinary and plant health agreement with the European Union?
Fleur Anderson
Many businesses have secured excellent deals in Northern Ireland, including EY, which is bringing over 1,000 jobs; Wrightbus, at its bus factory in Ballymena; and Hannon Pharma Link. We are working at pace on a veterinary agreement. We want to reduce checks and the need for checks, doing all that we can to protect the UK’s internal market. This Government have brought in economic stability in place of the economic chaos we saw up until now, and Northern Ireland businesses will benefit from that.
Jerome Mayhew
It is all very well talking about an industrial strategy, but economists agree that increasing national insurance contributions for employers reduces profits, reduces pay and leads to fewer jobs. Does the Minister agree that if the Government decide to raise taxes, perhaps to fund union pay rises, then employer national insurance contributions would be the last tax to choose if they want to support Northern Ireland’s economy?
Fleur Anderson
It is hard to take lectures from the Conservative party on investment and growth. We have had a change election. We will be investing in growth. The hon. Member has only a week to wait to listen to what will be happening in the Budget. In the meantime, we are going at pace. The international investment summit brought in considerable investment for companies based in Northern Ireland. We are moving on with our industrial strategy, Invest 2035. We are investing in skills and getting people into work, and transforming our health services. That is essential so that people will want to come to Northern Ireland because of good health services, and so that they will be well enough to work. All of that is a package for investment in Northern Ireland.
Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab)
At last week’s international investment summit, the Prime Minister and the Chancellor announced a total of £63 billion of private investment into the UK economy. What steps are the Secretary of State and the Minister taking to ensure Northern Ireland is at the forefront of this Government’s effort to stimulate the investment that is needed?
Fleur Anderson
The Secretary of State went to the international summit with the First and Deputy First Ministers and they are all working together on this. The Ballymena bus manufacturer, Wrightbus, recently signed a deal worth £100 billion to supply more than 1,000 buses to Go-Ahead. That shows real business confidence in Northern Ireland. We are also focusing on the skills gap. I have met wonderful skills providers across Northern Ireland to talk about how we can get people into well-paid jobs and to achieve faster growth.
Kevin Bonavia (Stevenage) (Lab)
It is good to hear from the Minister about the work being done to close the skills gap. Can she provide further examples of that work and lay out her intentions for the future?
Fleur Anderson
My hon. Friend is right to raise the issue of the skills gap and economic inactivity in Northern Ireland. I have met wonderful skills providers across Northern Ireland, such as the Rural Women’s Network, Bolster Community, the Superstars Club, Disability Action Northern Ireland, Ulster University and the King’s Trust. A wealth of work is being done on good skills support, and we in the UK Government want to work with the Northern Ireland Executive to continue to provide support in that area. A reliable, bespoke skills offering is essential to futureproof Northern Ireland’s key growth sectors.
Paul Holmes (Hamble Valley) (Con)
The Minister talks about growth, but the Mid South West region growth deal, which was paused by this Government, now lies inactive with no direction, and there are reports that much-needed private sector business involvement is now withdrawing. Will the Minister accept that this Government’s handling and pausing of these growth deals was haphazard? Will she apologise to the people affected and enter urgent direct talks with businesses to get this deal back off the ground?
Fleur Anderson
The Secretary of State and I are in constant talks about such deals and with the deal providers. I know the value of these deals not just to the regions affected, but across Northern Ireland. However, the Government face a £22 billion black hole, and it is right that the Treasury considers all options on the table to address that. We will find out more in the Budget next week. The Mid South West and the Causeway Coast and Glens growth deals are being considered as part of the spending review, and the Government will continue to work closely with the deals’ partners and the Executive. The Secretary of State and I will continue to underline the importance of these deals to my ministerial colleagues in the Treasury.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
We look forward to a positive conclusion to those discussions next week. As the Minister knows, both representatives from the Mid South West region growth deal and the Causeway Coast and Glens growth deal are in Westminster today. Will the Minister acknowledge that, in working with businesses and in trying to encourage greater trade within our own country, the appointment of a chair of Intertrade UK was an important first step, but work needs to start, the terms of reference need to be set and businesses need to be able to engage with that body established to support trade within our country?
Fleur Anderson
I agree with the right hon. Member that Intertrade UK needs to get going with its work to encourage investment between all of the regions and nations of the UK. It is very important to set the terms of reference, and we are working with the organisation as fast as we can now that the chair is in their place
Gavin Robinson
I thank the Minister for her reply. She will know from discussions with her Cabinet colleagues that decisions have been taken to delay the agreement on parcels, to delay the agreement on customs, and to avoid taking the decision on UK-wide labelling. Myriad other decisions were also made and supported by this House, including Labour Members, that are required to be implemented from the “Safeguarding the Union” document. She will know about the interface between trade and constitutional politics, so I urge her to engage with the Secretary of State, the Paymaster General and others within the Cabinet to get on and deliver what businesses and the people of Northern Ireland need?
Fleur Anderson
We are not the only Ministers who came into office three months ago to have faced all sorts of decisions that should have been taken by the previous Government. We have taken up those decisions on parcels and on every aspect that the right hon. Member mentions. He is right to raise them, because we do need to work on them to ensure that we protect the UK internal market and that we create the best possible regime for business.
Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)
Claire Hanna (Belfast South and Mid Down) (SDLP)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Fleur Anderson)
I congratulate my hon. Friend on her new role as leader of the Social Democratic and Labour party, and I thank her for raising this important issue. Seven women and girls have been killed violently in Northern Ireland this year alone. That is devastating. I have discussed the importance of action on violence against women and girls with the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister, and I welcome the Northern Ireland Executive making it a priority in their programme for Government, as well as the new strategic framework.
Claire Hanna
Mary Ward in my constituency became the fourth woman to be murdered in just six weeks in Northern Ireland. It remains one of the most dangerous places in Europe to be a woman, with a femicide rate twice that of Britain. We need to think deeply about the type of society that we have created, and that is manifesting in this way. The recent publication of the Northern Ireland strategy on violence against women was overdue and very welcome. Does the Minister agree that the funding and human resources attached to that strategy must be proportionate to the urgency and the deep roots of the issue? Will she support the Executive as they review the sentencing and judicial processes that are contributing to these very preventable deaths?
Fleur Anderson
My thoughts are with the family and friends, and all those affected by the murder of Mary Ward. Every woman deserves to feel safe. There is what has been called an epidemic of violence against women and girls in Northern Ireland. I join my hon. Friend in welcoming the new strategy. We need stronger action by the justice system and more support for frontline services in order to tackle harassment wherever it is—in homes, schools, workplaces, and on our streets. We need to challenge and change misogynistic attitudes and behaviours. That will need urgent action, and us working together, and this Government stand ready to do that.
David Davis (Goole and Pocklington) (Con)
Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner
Fleur Anderson Excerpts(2 months, 1 week ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Fleur Anderson)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dowd. This is my first time responding to a Westminster Hall debate for the Government and I am delighted that it is on this issue; my grandfather was from Northern Ireland and served in the British Army, so this debate is very close to my heart. I am so grateful for his service and the service of all veterans.
I congratulate the hon. Member for South Antrim (Robin Swann) on securing this important debate—his first Westminster Hall debate as well—and on his work to improve support for veterans in Northern Ireland over many years, including reconvening the Armed Forces Liaison Forum when he was Minister of Health for Northern Ireland. I know he is deeply committed to ensuring that veterans in his constituency, and indeed right across the UK, receive all the recognition they deserve and the support to which they are entitled. It is a commitment shared by this Government and, I am sure, by all in this Chamber—
Gavin Robinson
I appreciate that the Minister is here today and speaks with a personal connection to this story. She will know that the commitments in NDNA were important and represented work done in the Defence Select Committee and through private Members’ Bills to make sure veterans in Northern Ireland had a strong voice, as their counterparts across the United Kingdom do. She should also know that the last number of years have proven very difficult for veterans, with the closure of the VSO and with the feeling that they are not treated the same as their counterparts across the UK. Does she understand that the most important initial step she could take would be to confirm that the NIO will advertise the position of Veterans Commissioner? Doing that now would indicate a commitment to that support.
Peter Dowd (in the Chair)
Order. This is a half-hour debate. I accept that people are intervening on a very important matter, but I ask Members to be careful and considerate with their interventions in such debates.
Fleur Anderson
Thank you, Mr Dowd. I thank the right hon. Member for his intervention. In fact, my next sentence was going to be one that will please him greatly, I think. I was about to say: which is why we have moved very quickly to advertise the position of the Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner. In fact it will be advertised this week, with all the details available. This debate is therefore extremely timely and can serve as a very long job advertisement for the position. I hope that many people who listen to this debate, or read it in Hansard, will consider applying for this position. It is such an important position and one on which we have moved extremely quickly as a Government, demonstrating our commitment to supporting veterans.
Fleur Anderson
If I keep giving way, I will not have enough time to speak, so I think I will continue.
Mr Kinahan was appointed by the previous Government, which established the role of the Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner. I join the Secretary of State in expressing my gratitude for Mr Kinahan’s dedicated work over the last four years on behalf of veterans and their families living in Northern Ireland. As has been said, it was one of the commitments made as part of the New Decade, New Approach political agreement in January 2020, which helped to restore devolved Government in Northern Ireland.
As set out in New Decade, New Approach, the commissioner’s role was
“to act as an independent point of contact to support and enhance outcomes for veterans in Northern Ireland.”
Danny Kinahan, himself a veteran and subsequently an elected representative in Northern Ireland, took up the role on 1 September 2020. Over the last four years the commissioner and his team have worked to deliver that important support for veterans in Northern Ireland. Their work conducting direct veteran engagements and veteran information roadshows across Northern Ireland has been particularly valuable, as has their establishment of a veterans mental health committee, involving a number of key mental health service providers for veterans.
The commissioner was also involved in encouraging collaborative working with the veterans sector, working closely with veterans commissioners in Scotland and Wales, with regimental associations and with the voluntary sector. He also sought to ensure that Northern Ireland veterans’ views were heard in my Department and across Whitehall with regard to the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023 and the development of the Independent Commission on Information Recovery and Reconciliation.
In delivering its role, the Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner’s Office works closely with a range of local statutory and non-statutory stakeholders. Previously that included the Veterans Support Office, which was formed in 2018 to develop capacity to deliver the armed forces covenant in Northern Ireland and played a role in co-ordinating and signposting to charity provision. It closed in June this year, as the way that support for veterans is provided in Northern Ireland continues to evolve.
Many of the functions of the Veterans Support Office had over time been replicated by other organisations or superseded by other initiatives. That includes the establishment of the Veterans Commissioner’s Office, which now plays a leading role in communicating with and championing the needs of veterans resident in Northern Ireland, as well as building connections with partners delivering support to veterans across Northern Ireland.
The Office for Veterans’ Affairs has additionally created a new role, based in Belfast, to provide dedicated strategic co-ordination of organisations, programmes and initiatives that support veterans’ wellbeing in Northern Ireland. That post will become operational imminently and is a post that is evolving to continue to support veterans.
This is a Government of service that will always stand up for those who have served our country. My hon. Friend and colleague the Minister for Veterans and People is leading work across Government and with civil society to ensure that our veterans and their families get access to the health, housing, employment and other support that they need, wherever they reside in the United Kingdom. In Northern Ireland specifically, the specialist statutory welfare body for veterans, the Veterans Welfare Service, provides information and practical support to veterans and their families, including timely physiotherapy and psychological therapies to eligible veterans.
The £500,000 Defence Medical Welfare Service pilot additionally supports veterans’ health and wellbeing in Northern Ireland and provides insight that will improve our understanding of veterans’ health needs. Veterans in need of housing advice, meanwhile, can contact the Government’s single housing support pathway, Operation FORTITUDE, where a dedicated team of advisers works to assist veterans across the UK.
The armed forces covenant continues to be a key Government priority, with a commitment to fully implement the covenant in law. It ensures that the armed forces community is treated fairly across the UK, including in Northern Ireland, although its delivery is approached differently there due to Northern Ireland’s unique historical and political circumstances.
As the hon. Member for South Antrim mentioned, at the beginning of September the Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner met the Secretary of State, who accepted his resignation. Mr Kinahan explained his reasoning, and it has been reiterated publicly. I join the Secretary of State in expressing my gratitude for Mr Kinahan’s dedicated work. I am delighted that we started work immediately on the appointment of the new Veterans Commissioner—I hope that will begin tomorrow, but maybe later this week.
The appointment of the new Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner will be made on merit by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, following open and transparent process, which includes public advertising and independent assessment. Again, I encourage all suitably experienced people to apply for this important role. In the meantime, the Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner’s Office has engaged and will continue to engage with veterans, signposting them to support, including while the new Veterans Commissioner is appointed. Indeed, I believe the office was involved in a successful event last month at Parliament Buildings in Belfast, which recognised and celebrated Northern Ireland veterans’ service in Iraq and Afghanistan, and which was sponsored by the hon. Gentleman’s party colleague, Lord Elliott.
In addition, the Government are committed to continuing to support veterans in Northern Ireland through the Veterans Welfare Service, which has field teams across Northern Ireland linked in with various partner organisations and statutory bodies, and with the different initiatives funded via the Armed Forces Covenant Fund Trust. That includes the Veterans’ Places, Pathways and People programme, known as the Veterans’ Pathway in Northern Ireland, which is led by the charity Brooke House and does excellent work on improving the co-ordination of mental health support to veterans among partner organisations locally. The charity Beyond the Battlefield was also awarded £100,000 in March 2024 to provide wraparound services for veterans in Northern Ireland who are homeless or at risk of homelessness.
I have listened carefully to the points the hon. Gentleman made about the basis for the role, including the ability to communicate, with veterans, health support and the other issues. I am pleased that he has raised those, and I am sure they will be read by any applicants for the role and by the future Veterans Commissioner once they are appointed.
In conclusion, I thank the hon. Gentleman for securing this important debate. The role of the Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner is an important element of the support provided to veterans across a wide range of areas that I have already detailed, in recognition of their service to our country. Let me once again encourage everyone who is suitably experienced to apply for the post, and reiterate that this Government recognise the dedicated service of all our veterans and are committed to supporting the veteran community across the whole of the United Kingdom. This is a Government of service that will always stand up for those who have served our country, and we will continue to do so.
Question put and agreed to.
Oral Answers to Questions
Fleur Anderson Excerpts(4 months, 4 weeks ago)
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Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Fleur Anderson)
I am delighted to be appointed to this role, and I look forward to working closely with Executive Ministers to see public services transformed in Northern Ireland. I will be meeting the First and Deputy First Ministers tomorrow in Stormont, as well as the Northern Ireland Health Minister, Mike Nesbitt.
Gavin Robinson
I welcome the Minister of State and Secretary of State to their positions. I am delighted to see them in post, and I know they are committed to effective public services and stability of the institutions in Northern Ireland. May I caution that in a number of responses that we have received from the Front Bench, we are having a recurring conversation that the fiscal framework that was announced back in December on an interim basis does not solve the problems we have? Even the stabilisation money that was agreed back in December has already been forecast as necessary to sustain pay in Northern Ireland. Will the Minister of State engage earnestly not only with what the Government—both of this hue and the previous Government—have been saying for the past six months, and recognise that to provide good public services in Northern Ireland we need not only to sustain, but to transform?
Fleur Anderson
I agree with the right hon. Member. Money is allocated specifically for transformation of public services to improve service delivery outcomes. In Northern Ireland, three in 10 people are on an NHS waiting list; that number is one in 10 here in England. That figure needs to be transformed for health outcomes.
I will be talking about funding when I meet Executive Ministers, but I will also be talking about other ways in which our doors, and those of other Government Ministers, too, are open. We are determined to work together to transform public services.
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
Dr Neil Hudson (Epping Forest) (Con)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Fleur Anderson)
I understand how important and urgent this issue is. I thank the hon Member for his contribution to the veterinary medicines working group, whose work we have committed to continuing. He will know that a grace period for veterinary medicines will remain in place until the end of 2025, which provides continuity of supply to Northern Ireland. The Government will make progress on this issue as quickly as possible.
Dr Hudson
I thank the Minister for her answer. The Windsor framework secured by the previous Government extended that grace period to veterinary medicines in Northern Ireland until the end of December 2025. That includes vaccines and anaesthetics, so it is vital for biosecurity and both animal and public health that access continues. Will the Minister assure the House that the Government will strain every sinew to secure permanent access to veterinary medicines in Northern Ireland, and will they continue the Cabinet Office’s veterinary medicines working group, on which I sat, which was working so hard to find a solution?
Fleur Anderson
I can confirm again that the veterinary medicines working group will continue. We recognise its importance, and we will continue to work at pace on a long-term solution, because continuity of supply and knowing about it well in advance of next December is very important.
Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)
I welcome the Secretary of State and his team to their place, and I associate myself with the remarks of the hon. Member for Belfast South and Mid Down (Claire Hanna). I can only hope that the success of the hurling at the weekend means that the BBC will consider showing the shinty-hurling international that takes place every year.
I welcome attempts by the new Government to continue to rebuild trust with Northern Ireland political parties and to improve relations with the European Union, which offers the opportunity to reduce trade frictions between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Could the Secretary of State set out what he is doing with ministerial colleagues and other Departments to open the door to securing a veterinary agreement with the EU, which will further reduce those barriers to trade?
Fleur Anderson
The Government are committed to working at pace on a long-term solution, including a veterinary agreement. That might change the relationship with the EU and build more trust, and so a bespoke agreement may be needed, but we are working at pace to secure that.
Dr Allison Gardner (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab)