Oral Answers to Questions

Elizabeth Truss Excerpts

Tuesday 6th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

1. What steps she is taking to reform the Human Rights Act 1998.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Elizabeth Truss)]

First, I would like to pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s work on human rights reform as a Minister in this Department. He is a great champion of liberty.

The Government are committed to scrapping the Human Rights Act and introducing a British Bill of Rights.

[Mr Raab]

May I say at the outset that it is an honour to be the first Member to welcome the new Justice Secretary and the new Front-Bench team to their posts? I wish them every success. I also reassure my right hon. Friend, from experience, that being a lawyer is of very limited value in her Department—no offence to the Minister of State.

Britain’s decision to leave the EU will remove the jurisdiction of the Luxembourg Court, which is probably the biggest obstacle to delivering a Bill of Rights. May I welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement on the intention to continue this reform and encourage the Government to proceed to consultation as soon as possible?

[Elizabeth Truss]

This is an important reform; we need to get it right. We will be introducing proposals in due course. We will deliver on this manifesto commitment.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

Which convention rights does the Justice Secretary propose to leave out of the Bill of Rights?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question, and I remember with fondness our time together on the Justice Committee, where he had many good thoughts to put forward. We will be putting out our proposals in due course, which will discuss these issues in detail, but one of the important points is that we want the ultimate arbiter of those rights to be the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom.

[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that one of the problems with the current set-up is that the code of rights includes many reservations and qualifications that the European Court does not embrace? A British Bill of Rights can ensure that there is proper balance and that the interests of justice are served.

[Elizabeth Truss]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. It is absolutely the reason we want to pursue a British Bill of Rights to put that in place.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

If we are to have the Supreme Court as the ultimate arbiter, does that mean that the Lord Chancellor wants to withdraw from the European convention?

[Elizabeth Truss]

The Prime Minister has been very clear that leaving the European convention on human rights is not something that we are going to pursue.

[Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con)]

May I, too, welcome my right hon. Friend to her post and her determination to proceed with a British Bill of Rights? Could I urge her to remember that the cornerstone of the rule of law in this country has always been the sovereignty of Parliament? May I urge her not to listen to those who argue that getting rid of an Act that came 40 years after we signed up to the European convention on human rights somehow or other undermines our position within the treaty.

[Elizabeth Truss]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: human rights were not invented in 1998 with the Human Rights Act. We have a strong record, as a country, of human rights, dating back to Magna Carta, and the British Bill of Rights is going to be the next step in enshrining those rights in our laws.

[Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)]

May I welcome the Secretary of State to her new role and say that while, of course, it is not a prerequisite for the person in her role to be a lawyer, she will no doubt wish to listen carefully to any legal advice she receives about any proposals to reform the law?

There is almost universal opposition to the repeal of the Human Rights Act in Scotland; this is reflected in the Scottish Parliament and across Scottish civic society. On 11 August, I wrote to the UK Government seeking clarification of their plans for so-called reform of the Human Rights Act, following press reports. I have yet to receive a substantive response. At what stage in her plans will the Secretary of State seek to consult the Scottish Government, and can she confirm that she will listen to and respect their answer?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I have already had a number of legal meetings about this issue, and I am sure I will enjoy working with the legal profession in my role. The Prime Minister has already had a very good meeting with the First Minister of Scotland. I will be meeting the Scottish Justice Minister shortly to discuss a number of issues.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Richard Burgon.

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[Joanna Cherry]

I was rather hoping to have a second bite of Her Majesty’s Government, Mr Speaker.

If the Secretary of State has been having legal meetings about the Human Rights Act, she will have been advised that human rights are not a reserved matter and that therefore the Scottish Parliament must be consulted regarding any legislation with regard to human rights. During the independence referendum, Scotland was told that it was an equal partner in this Union. Does she appreciate that to proceed with repeal of the Human Rights Act across the UK would fly in the face of that promise and exacerbate the democratic deficit that already exists in Scotland, where a Tory Government we did not vote for are planning to take us out of the European Union against our will?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I would point out that this was in the Conservative party manifesto and we secured a majority at the general election. As I said, I will be in touch with the Scottish Justice Minister; I look forward to talking to him about this subject.

[Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab)]

I welcome the Secretary of State to her new role. It is good to see a Leeds person at each Dispatch Box. I understand that, like me, she comes from good, left-wing Leeds stock, and I look forward to our exchanges.

At the Secretary of State’s swearing-in ceremony, she quoted with approval the late Lord Bingham. On the Human Rights Act, Lord Bingham said in 2009:

“Which of these rights, I ask, would we wish to discard?”

He went on to say:

“There may be those who would like to live in a country where these rights are not protected, but I am not of their number.”

To give the Secretary of State another chance, because she failed to answer the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner), which of these rights does she wish to discard?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I, too, welcome the hon. Gentleman to the Dispatch Box. It is great to have somebody who is also from Leeds facing me, although I learned the error of my ways after growing up in a left-wing household in that great city.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Shocking!

[Elizabeth Truss]

All I can say is that I believe that everyone is capable of reform, even those on the Opposition Benches. I have not yet given up hope on the shadow Secretary of State for Justice.

The whole purpose of the Bill of Rights is to enhance human rights in this country. We have led the world in human rights since Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights that was published in Wales in 1689, and we will continue to do so.

[Richard Burgon]

I thank the Secretary of State for that response, but let me say this:

“We were very clear that we will replace the Human Rights Act, which isn’t working for British people, with a British Bill of Rights that gives the ultimate power to citizens in this country.”

Those were the words of the Secretary of State on the “Today” programme in May 2015. Given that, and in the light of the answer that she has just given, can she explain to the House why she wants to rob the people of Britain of their rights? Will she admit that talk of a so-called Bill of Rights is simply posturing and making concessions to the hard right of the Conservative party?

[Elizabeth Truss]

Human rights were not invented in 1998 with the Human Rights Act. There are major issues with the Human Rights Act and we need to move forward. We need a British Bill of Rights that enshrines our ancient liberties.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

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[Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) (Lab)]

3. What recent assessment she has made of safety in prisons.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Elizabeth Truss)]

In the last year, assaults have risen by 31% and those on prison staff have risen by 40%. That is totally unacceptable and I am determined to tackle it. Reforming prisons will be possible only if they are made safer places for staff and offenders alike.

[Bridget Phillipson]

As the Secretary of State’s response makes clear, prison safety continues to deteriorate. That significant problem puts both prisoners and staff at risk, but a major issue that must be tackled is the retention of staff. Will she set out exactly what she will do to make that a priority and how she will succeed where her predecessors have failed?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I absolutely agree that the retention of staff is a very important issue. I have been to a number of prisons and seen how brave, fearless and hard-working our prison officers are. They are vital in turning around offenders and getting them the education and skills they need to succeed outside. I am determined to support and work with them, and over the coming months I will lay out more detailed plans.

[Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)]

May I warmly welcome the Secretary of State and her team to their posts? Lawyers do sometimes have their uses, and so do non-lawyers. Her predecessor made prison reform a centrepiece of the agenda and rightly described the deterioration of safety in prisons as terrible. The figures have now got worse. He committed to an action plan to tackle violence in our prisons. Will the Secretary of State reaffirm that, and what specific steps will be taken to deal with what is a ticking time bomb in our criminal justice system, because nothing else has worked?

[Elizabeth Truss]

May I say how pleased I am to have been able to meet the Chairman of the Justice Committee? I take the advice of all my lawyers, but particularly that of the Chairman of the Select Committee, extremely seriously.

This is a critical issue that faces our prisons. We cannot have reform in our prisons if we do not have safe prisons for people to work in. Those two things go hand in hand. I am committed to an agenda of making our prisons safe and places of reform. I will be laying out my plans very shortly on this issue, and I look forward to discussing it more with the Select Committee tomorrow.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State look again at statements that were made by her Department recently about the number of prison officers? The Department claims that the number has increased, but it has not. Will she look at the matter again? I believe that she did not take into account staff being regraded or the number of hours that they actually work when she examined the number of officers in the system.

[Elizabeth Truss]

I will, of course, look at those numbers in detail. In fact, I am looking at them at the moment. As well as the number of staff, it is important to consider how staff are deployed and trained, and the powers that governors have to get the best out of staff working in prisons. I am looking at all those aspects, but I agree that staff are absolutely crucial to make our prisons work well.

[James Berry (Kingston and Surbiton) (Con)]

One of the causes of a lack of safety in prisons has been novel psychoactive substances. Does the Secretary of State agree that the ban on the possession of those substances in prisons should really improve the safety of other prisoners and prison officers, if it is properly enforced?

[Elizabeth Truss]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that NPS have been a major issue in our prisons. When I visited HMP Norwich last week, I was pleased to see that it was using the new legislation to tackle that issue in the prison, to search people and to catch them out. HMP Norwich has succeeded in reducing the usage of such drugs already. I would like to see that type of programme happening more across our prison estate.

[Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

4. What steps her Department is taking to improve safety for prisoners and prison staff.

[Mr Speaker]

Minister at the Dispatch Box.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Elizabeth Truss)]

Forgive me, Mr Speaker; I think that the summer recess has taken its toll on my memory of parliamentary procedure.

I am determined to ensure that our prisons are places of safety and reform. We need to help offenders to get off drugs, improve their education and get the work skills they need so they are less likely to reoffend when they come out.

[Andy Slaughter]

I thank the Secretary of State for concentrating. Does she see a connection between the long-term decline in prison officer numbers—they went down 30% between 2010 and 2013, and they are going down again—and this massive increase in assaults on staff, which went up 90% over the last Parliament?

[Elizabeth Truss]

There are many factors driving prison violence and self-harm. I am looking at the evidence about what will work and what steps we can take, but I am determined to tackle this. I am very clear that the current levels of violence are unacceptable.

[Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)]

May I also warmly congratulate the Secretary of State and the new ministerial team on their appointments? Of course we need more prison officers in prisons, but may I urge the Secretary of State and her Ministers to consider the greater use of prisoners as mentors? Wandsworth is leading the way, with 50 mentors providing teaching and education, but that could also be used in employment, for therapeutic purposes and to cut down the use of drugs.

[Elizabeth Truss]

As a Prisons Minister, my hon. Friend did tremendous work in this area; we are very much learning from the work that he carried out in the Department. He makes an important point, and I think we need to look at the overall culture in some of our best prisons. We have exemplary work going on, such as mentoring, and we need to make sure that that is happening right across our prison estate.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

The Secretary of State may be aware that the head of the prison service in Northern Ireland recently stood down. Attacks on prison staff are on the rise. Will the Secretary of State ensure that her Department engages actively with the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland to see what lessons can be learned and to try to improve safety in prisons in Northern Ireland?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I have been in touch with the Justice Minister in Northern Ireland, and I look forward to talking to her in due course.

[David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con)]

May I, too, congratulate the Secretary of State on her appointment? Is not a large part of the problem the fact that we have so many Victorian prisons? Does she have any plans for a prison rebuilding scheme?

[Elizabeth Truss]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have a big issue with prisons that are out of date and not fit for purpose, which makes it more difficult for our excellent governors and officers to manage them well. I am pleased to say that this summer we were able to close Holloway prison. We have a £1.3 billion building programme. I want new modern prisons to be built in which prisoners will get the education and work they need to succeed in outside life, and to close down some of our most dilapidated and out-of-date prisons.

[Joan Ryan (Enfield North) (Lab)]

5. What her Department’s strategy is for supporting victims of crime.

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[John Pugh (Southport) (LD)]

8. What information her Department holds on the level of social mobility and social diversity within the legal professions.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Elizabeth Truss)]

That information is published by the legal professions. For example, 13% of QCs are women, and 6% declare themselves as coming from a black, Asian and minority ethnic background.

[John Pugh]

Available data show very limited progress, particularly with only 13% of QCs and only a third of the people practising at the Bar being women. What can the Government do to improve that and rattle up the profession a bit?

[Elizabeth Truss]

We want a justice system that works for everyone and a legal services industry that uses all the talent in our country. I have already had very positive conversations with the Lord Chief Justice, who is keen to improve diversity figures in the judiciary, and I am due to meet the Bar Council shortly to talk specifically about the Bar.

[Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con)]

What assessment has my right hon. Friend made of opportunities to increase apprenticeship-based routes into the legal professions and prison services to increase social mobility?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I am a huge fan of apprenticeships. The new apprenticeship levy brings a big opportunity for some of our large legal services firms, and right across the board, to increase the number of apprenticeships. I will certainly be talking to those firms about that over the coming months.

[Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab)]

At one London provider of legal education, fees for the academic year ahead are as follows: nearly £11,000 for the graduate diploma in law; more than £15,000 for the legal practice course; and near to £19,000 for the Bar professional training course. That is on top of the cost of university education. Such fees are beyond the reach of many people from ordinary backgrounds. Given that reality, how will the Minister ensure a diverse legal profession?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I have been discussing this matter right across the legal profession. At the younger end we are seeing a lot more diversity; the question is how people progress through the pipeline. I would like more transparency so that we can look at people moving through the system. I have no doubt that the Lord Chief Justice and leading judges want to see more diversity. They are very keen to work with me on this agenda.

[Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)]

9. What steps the Government plan to take to tackle mental health issues in prisons.

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[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

12. What proportion of prisoners are illiterate.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Elizabeth Truss)]

Fewer than half of the people entering prison have basic standards of English and maths. This is a huge problem because we know that low levels of education can prevent people from securing jobs on release and leading law-abiding lives.

[Neil Parish]

The Secretary of State is quite right to say that both literacy and numeracy are essential to getting a job. Should we not therefore put more resources into educating prisoners on release so that they are able to get jobs?

[Elizabeth Truss]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The fact is that too many people enter our prisons without those skills. We need to use their time in prison to help them to gain the basic skills so that they can succeed outside. We have started measuring prisoners’ skills by testing them as they enter prison. I am keen to see that we measure real progress made during prisoners’ stay in prison and hold governors accountable for that.

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State confirm that there will be no return to the policy of banning books for prisoners?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I confirm that books are freely available in prison.

[Mr Edward Vaizey (Wantage) (Con)]

I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend to her position. I was delighted to hear the new Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport talking about the importance of the arts in prisons. I hope that my right hon. Friend will recognise how the arts can bring prisoners to literacy and teach them a huge range of skills. I hope she will meet the National Criminal Justice Arts Alliance at the earliest opportunity to discuss what the arts can do, particularly in respect of literacy.

[Elizabeth Truss]

May I say what a fantastic job my right hon. Friend has done in championing the arts in every part of our country? His legacy lives on, and it will live on in our prisons.

[Mr Speaker]

I think that the right hon. Member for Wantage (Mr Vaizey) is overcome with emotion. What a happy day for the feller!

[Elizabeth Truss]

I look forward to meeting my counterparts from all over the United Kingdom and discussing these critical issues, because this is a challenge that we all face.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We are running late, so extreme brevity is now required.

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[Mr Douglas Carswell (Clacton) (UKIP)]

T1. If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Elizabeth Truss)]

I am proud to take on the role of Lord Chancellor and Justice Secretary, upholding the rule of law and reforming our justice system. I am determined to ensure that our prisons are places of safety and reform where offenders can get off drugs, improve their education, and develop the work skills they need so that they are less likely to reoffend. I pay tribute to our brave prison officers and probation staff.

Over the next couple of months I shall lay out my plans for prison reform, and set out plans to modernise the courts so that we can continue to have a world-leading justice system.

[Mr Carswell]

Sir James Munby was asked to undertake a review of the family courts in August 2014. Can the Secretary of State update the House on any progress that has been made in opening up the family courts and ending the secrecy that can lead to injustice?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I am due to meet James Munby next week to discuss that issue in more detail. Some progress has been made in opening up the family courts, but there is, of course, a balance to be struck between highly sensitive issues and opening them up fully. I will look at the issue in more detail.

[Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con)]

T2. Will my right hon. Friend commit herself to using all the powers at her disposal to protect British military personnel and veterans, who have served our country bravely and with great honour, from spurious and outrageous legal claims such as those pursued by, for instance, public interest law firms?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I am delighted to tell my hon. Friend that this summer the Legal Aid Agency pulled the plug on its contract with Public Interest Lawyers, who will no longer be ambulance-chasing our brave service personnel. Legal aid should support vulnerable people in our society, and should not be used to pursue spurious cases against the armed forces who do so much to serve our country.

[Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)]

May I join colleagues in welcoming the new Justice Secretary and her team to their roles?

The Government created the toxic conditions for the record levels of violence, drug finds and deaths throughout the prison system by reducing the number of prison officers by a third, yet the former Prisons Minister spent much of his time at the Dispatch Box this year telling me quite proudly about his Department’s successful recruitment drive. The Justice Secretary did not seem to have the figures with her earlier when she answered a question from my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington (Jenny Chapman), so I will help her out. Can she explain why we have 421 fewer full-time equivalent front-line prison officers working in our public prisons than we did a year ago?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I fully acknowledge that we do have issues with violence and safety in our prisons. The levels are unacceptable. I am determined to deal with this issue and I will lay out my plans very shortly.

[Jo Stevens]

Since the Government’s probation privatisation, concerns have repeatedly been raised about the quality of pre-sentence reports for the courts as a result of arbitrary targets set. The probation inspectorate has this month described that as a persistent problem leading to inappropriate sentences being handed down. Vital safeguarding checks, such as domestic violence checks with police and child protection checks with children’s services, are not taking place prior to sentencing. Will the Justice Secretary today commit to an urgent review so that the public, probation professionals and sentencers can have confidence that when convicted criminals are sentenced, those deciding on them have all the necessary safeguarding evidence available?

[Elizabeth Truss]

Our probation services do vital work and the Minister responsible for prisons and probation is looking very closely at this issue, but I would point out that those now on shorter sentences get much more support thanks to our new probation contracts.

[Mr Speaker]

Contributions to topical questions must be brief, whether from the Back Benches or the Front. There is a lot to get through and not much time in which to do so.

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[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

T4. The Secretary of State will know that Charlie Taylor was asked to carry out a review of the youth justice system last year. An interim report was published in February, and we were promised the final report in July. We still do not have it; can the Secretary of State tell us when we will have it, and give us an explanation for the delay?

[Elizabeth Truss]

This is an incredibly important issue. Both the youth justice Minister and I have met Charlie Taylor and we will publish our response this autumn.

[Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con)]

T5. Does the Department intend to promote English law, the rule of law and our legal sector around the world, particularly to take advantage of the opportunities that may arise from Brexit?

[Elizabeth Truss]

English law has had a huge impact, spreading the rule of law around the world. It is the law of choice in over a quarter of jurisdictions, and Brexit gives us even more opportunities to promote this. I will be championing our £25 billion legal services industry as a key part of post-Brexit global Britain.

[Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab)]

T7. The Justice Committee has expressed concern that judges are now reporting that they hear no money claims at all—claims that were brought by workers in low paid sectors and which often succeeded. So when will the Government publish the review of the impact of employment tribunal fees, which is now six months overdue, and act to restore justice for low paid workers?

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[Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)]

T8. The Secretary of State alluded earlier to the closure and imminent sale of Holloway prison and she may be aware of the wish to site a woman’s centre on the site. Discussions are taking place, I understand, with the Mayor of London. Can the Secretary of State confirm that she and the Government will play their part in ensuring an outcome that secures services for women on that site?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question, and I will be very interested in looking more at the details of that proposal.

[Andrew Bingham (High Peak) (Con)]

T9. Following the closure of Buxton courthouse in my constituency, the previous Minister decided, following my representations, that the work should go to Stockport, not Chesterfield, as had originally been intended. However, a sign has now appeared on the disused courthouse saying that the work has gone to Chesterfield. Will my hon. and learned Friend please investigate this and ensure that the decision made by the Minister is implemented, rather than the one envisaged by the officials in the original, flawed consultation?

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[Vicky Foxcroft (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab)]

My constituent’s 17-year-old son Shaquan was murdered last year in Brockley. Will the Minister meet me and Sharon, Shaquan’s mother, to discuss the repeated failings in our justice system that mean that his killer is still walking the streets?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I would be very happy to meet the hon. Lady and her constituent, and I am very sorry to hear about that case.

[Alberto Costa (South Leicestershire) (Con)]

Colin Pitchfork was convicted of raping and murdering two young girls in the 1980s. Will the Minister please assure me and the public of their safety, given that Mr Pitchfork is being moved to an open prison?

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[Rob Marris (Wolverhampton South West) (Lab)]

Half an hour ago, the Secretary of State said that when the Human Rights Act is repealed it will be replaced with a new British Bill of Rights that will include additional human rights. What additional human rights will there be?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I said that we will enhance human rights in this country, and we will bring forward our proposals in due course.

[Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) (Con)]

With proactive cross-Government work, we have seen a 41% increase in disability hate crime prosecutions. Will the Secretary of State keep that as a priority?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I absolutely agree with that.

[Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton East) (SNP)]

I received assurances from the Government that the post-implementation review of tribunal fees would be published late last year. Nine months on and after thousands more discrimination cases, we are still waiting. Why has it taken so long for the Government to get a move on and publish the review? Will the Government follow the Scottish Government by abolishing tribunal fees completely—that is Scotland, not Northern Ireland?

[Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)]

Will a Minister confirm that this ministerial team will continue the good work of its predecessor in considering how prisoners’ family ties can be strengthened to improve rehabilitation and reduce recidivism?

[Elizabeth Truss]

My hon. Friend has a long-standing interest in this matter, as does the former Prisons Minister. We are determined to pursue this important part of rehabilitation.

[Mr Speaker]

I am sorry to disappoint some colleagues but, as usual, demand has exceeded supply.