Srebrenica Genocide (20th Anniversary)

David Lidington Excerpts

Tuesday 7th July 2015 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

The genocide in Srebrenica—the massacre of more than 8,000 Bosniak men and boys—represents the worst atrocity in Europe since 1945. It is also probably one of the darkest moments in the history of the United Nations. Twenty years on, it is right that we recall those events, pay tribute to the victims of the atrocities committed at Srebrenica and remember those from all sides who have lost family members and friends during the conflicts in the Balkans. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) both for securing and leading today’s debate and for the way in which he has spoken up for Bosnia and Herzegovina, for the memory of Srebrenica and its victims and for the western Balkans region overall during his time in the House.

Hon. Members have rightly said during the debate that alongside those who lost their lives at Srebrenica, we need to hold in our thoughts the survivors, who to this day mourn the loss of their family members and friends. The testimony of Nedžad Avdic, which my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham included in his speech, was a searing testimony to the appalling nature of the events that took place in and around Srebrenica 20 years ago. While commemorating those events, we need also to redouble our resolve to continue to push for the perpetrators of war crimes in the Balkans and elsewhere to be brought to justice.

This is an opportunity to encourage greater reconciliation both in Bosnia and Herzegovina and in the wider western Balkans region. It is also a moment to pause and reflect on the lessons learned and commit ourselves to making “Never again” not just a slogan, but a reality.

The United Kingdom is leading the drafting of a United Nations Security Council resolution to commemorate the victims of the genocide in Srebrenica and those who suffered on all sides in the war. That resolution encourages further steps towards reconciliation and a brighter future for Bosnia. The draft text that we have tabled also affirms our determination to prevent genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes and to use all the tools at our disposal to do so. The Security Council is due to vote on the resolution in New York this afternoon.

As the hon. Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis) said, Srebrenica is an acute reminder of the extreme consequences that can occur when divisions are allowed to prevail and when we fail to stand up to extremism and hatred, so this is also an important opportunity to reflect on what can happen when hatred and discrimination go unchecked.

Of course, part of reconciliation is about justice. It is for that reason that UK funding has provided immense support to the state prosecutor’s office, where financial support to the Srebrenica team from 2004 until December 2012 has had a direct impact on the number of successful prosecutions for Srebrenica-related war crimes. Our embassy in Sarajevo continues the valuable work on justice, supporting programmes to bring Bosnia’s justice and security sectors into line with international standards.

However, there is a great deal more to do. Reconciliation is also about rebuilding the damaged relationships to ensure that communities can live alongside each other in a cohesive and integrated manner and that intolerance never again divides Bosnia and Herzegovina or Europe. I am therefore glad that regional leaders of all faiths and ethnicities will join citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina and representatives of the international community at the burial of more than 130 people and in shared commemorations at Potocari cemetery. Her Royal Highness the Princess Royal will represent the United Kingdom at the ceremony on Saturday 11 July.

My hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham asked about the work done by the Fund for Refugees in Slovenia. I can tell him that Lady Nott is due to speak to my officials later this week, and we will obviously be interested to hear her ideas at that point, although the fact that the Department for International Development does not at the moment have an in-country programme in Bosnia and Herzegovina means that one obvious potential source of funding is not available.

The hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) asked me about the recent article in The Guardian. He was generous enough to say that he did not expect me to go into detail about it, but I have read the article. Comprehensive documentation has been published by the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, and the detailed Harland report in 1999 gave the official United Nations version of events. I think that the best thing we can do is to learn the lessons and resolve that we will never again stand by and close our eyes to atrocities of the sort that were committed two decades ago.

The hon. Gentleman also mentioned the International Commission on Missing Persons. I have seen for myself the work that it does in Sarajevo and Cyprus under extremely difficult and challenging conditions. We have been a strong supporter of the ICMP since it was established and we have provided more than £3 million in funding over the past 15 years. In the last financial year alone, we provided several hundred thousand pounds to help the ICMP to excavate a previously unknown mass grave site at Tomašica in north-west Bosnia and Herzegovina, which could produce evidence that will have an impact on ongoing cases before the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia. I assure the House that our commitment to the ICMP will continue.

We are spending about £4.75 million this year on projects that promote security and stability in Bosnia, including on peacekeeping, security sector reform, good governance and community reconciliation. We want Bosnia and Herzegovina to fulfil its potential as a stable, prosperous nation in the heart of Europe. When I have been to Sarajevo, I have found it encouraging to talk to young people from different ethnic and religious backgrounds, who see their future as being in the mainstream of European civilisation and who want not to forget the past, but to come to terms with it and build a better, more united future for their country.

In February last year, the entire international community heard the concerns of the Bosnian people. The demonstrations brought into stark relief the urgency of addressing key political and economic challenges, such as creating jobs for young people in their own country. That is why in November last year, our Foreign Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr Hammond), alongside his German counterpart Frank-Walter Steinmeier, led a new initiative to try to re-energise Bosnia’s path towards EU integration, a plan that has been adopted by the EU as a whole. The focus of that initiative is on delivering real reform and changes that will have the most direct impact on the Bosnian people. That does not mean that we can avoid addressing difficult political and constitutional issues, but I believe it is right to move ahead as quickly as possible with changes that will make a difference for the better to the lives of ordinary families from every community in Bosnia. Bosnia’s political leaders have signed up to that approach, and they need to implement reforms that will move the country forward and create a society that will bring opportunities for all its citizens. It is vital that old, divisive nationalist politics does not get in the way. Last year, in response to the appalling floods, Bosnians from all ethnicities showed that faced with a crisis, they could work together.

The bloodstained nature of recent history means that the path will not be an easy one, but we have a public commitment by party leaders from across the political spectrum in Bosnia and Herzegovina. The international community has a responsibility to support the people in holding their leaders to account to improve the lives of their citizens. All citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina deserve lasting prosperity and stability, and that will be achieved only when hope and good will for the richness of all members of society prevail over division. Building a secure, integrated, reconciled Bosnia and Herzegovina is, I believe, the best way to ensure that we can in truth say, when we reflect on Srebrenica, “Never again.”

Iranian Nuclear Programme

David Lidington Excerpts

Thursday 2nd July 2015 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

I, too, welcome you to the Chair, Mr Amess. I congratulate the hon. Member for Dudley North (Ian Austin) on securing this debate. I thank my hon. Friends the Members for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) and for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter) for their contributions, and the two Opposition Front-Bench spokesmen for theirs.

It will be no surprise that I am unable to speculate about quite a few details, because negotiations are continuing in Vienna today. Although all questions asked during the debate were perfectly reasonable, many can only be answered if and when there is a final agreement between the E3+3 and Iran. At present, there is an interim agreement—the so-called Lausanne parameters—and ongoing negotiations. The Foreign Secretary is in Vienna today to take forward conversations with the Iranian negotiators, having met his five counterparts a few days ago.

I can tell the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) that throughout this process, which it is fair to say has commanded broadly bipartisan support under successive Governments, Foreign Office Ministers have sought to keep Parliament informed about negotiations, and we will certainly continue to do so. I expect that, in the event of a final agreement being reached, a statement to Parliament will be made by the Foreign Secretary or another Minister, so that Members have the chance to see the detail of what was agreed.

When we and our E3+3 partners and Iran agreed the key parameters for a comprehensive agreement on Iran’s nuclear programme on 2 April, we set ourselves a deadline for reaching a final deal. That deadline passed on Tuesday, as hon. Members mentioned, without an agreement being reached, but that does not mean that the process has definitively ended in failure. It demonstrates our resolve not to be hurried into an unsatisfactory agreement on the substance, including on the vital technical details—I accept what Members from all parties said about consideration of the technical details being essential to any judgment about the nature of a final deal, should one be secured. It is important that all sides have the assurances they need and that we get those details right. We have to be confident that any deal is verifiable, durable and addresses our concerns fully. I agree with the right hon. Gentleman: substance is the key to this, not any particular question of timing.

All parties remain committed to achieving a deal. Nobody wants another long extension, so the interim agreement—the joint plan of action—has been extended for seven days to allow negotiations to continue.

Just over two weeks ago, the House debated these issues, and the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood), replied on behalf of the Government. I have picked up from this debate, as I did from the record of the previous one, that hon. Members in various political parties are concerned about the detail and worry that Iran might be granted too many concessions.

Although I cannot give a running commentary on the detail of the negotiations, I reiterate my strongest possible assurance on behalf of the whole Government that we will not do a bad deal. Any deal must achieve the Government’s prime objective of preventing Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. That means more than just a verbal or written commitment: it means the inclusion of detailed undertakings by Iran that are sufficient to give us confidence that their nuclear programme will be entirely peaceful. Anything less is completely unacceptable.

We have an historic opportunity to find a solution to a long-standing source of tension, instability and global concern that, if unresolved, will undoubtedly threaten our security and that of our partners. In a week when we have seen tragic violence and bloodshed in the wider region, we should reflect on how much progress we have made towards reaching a solution through peaceful, diplomatic and negotiated means. A great deal is at stake—for this country, for our partners and for the people of Iran.

Let me give a bit more detail on the parameters within which we hope to agree a deal and its implications for Iran, for the region, and for the UK. In addressing the Lausanne parameters, I hope that I will answer at least some of the questions and concerns raised during this debate.

The parameters for a deal agreed in Lausanne are a sound basis for what could be a very good deal that is durable, verifiable and addresses our concerns about proliferation. Under the Lausanne interim agreement, Iran’s enrichment capacity, enrichment level and enriched uranium stockpile would all be limited, and the facility at Natanz would be Iran’s sole location for enrichment.

Hon. Members mentioned research and development capability. Iran’s research and development on centrifuges will be carried out under the Lausanne parameters, based on mutually agreed details relating to scope and schedule. When I say “mutually agreed”, I mean agreed not just by Iran, but by Iran and the six international partners with whom it is negotiating. The Lausanne deal also requires the Arak heavy water research reactor to be redesigned and modernised to exclude production of weapons-grade plutonium. Taken together, these measures will ensure that Iran’s break-out time—the time taken to produce sufficient fissile material for a nuclear device, should Iran ever attempt to do so—will be extended to at least 12 months.

A robust and credible regime for monitoring compliance by Iran will be put in place under the Lausanne parameters. Iran would need to implement the modified code 3.1 and the additional protocol to the comprehensive safeguards agreement. The International Atomic Energy Agency must be able to use the best modern monitoring technologies and have enhanced access to sites to make sure that if Iran ever tried to break out towards a nuclear weapon, the international community would be alerted and have sufficient time to respond.

[Neil Parish]

What faith have we that this agreement, which should deal with enhanced access to nuclear sites in Iran, will happen? We have had agreements like this before, but still have not had access to the sites.

[Mr Lidington]

I want to say a little bit more about access in a few moments, but to answer my hon. Friend directly, questions about access and verification lie at the heart of the detailed negotiations going on today. Unless we and our partners are satisfied that the IAEA will have the access that it believes it needs, there will not be a final agreement.

[Dr Poulter]

My right hon. Friend’s considered, helpful response is shedding perhaps greater light on the issues than we had in the previous debate. On access, is it not difficult to understand what is being negotiated if there has not been transparency about exactly what the situation is on the ground and what access there is to the scientists? Should there not be some level of access first, before the final details of the negotiation are put to bed?

[Mr Lidington]

I promise my hon. Friend that I will come to the point he raised on access to scientists a little later in my remarks. All the questions about access and the sequencing of access are precisely the subject of the negotiations that Foreign Ministers are pursuing this afternoon in Vienna.

So far as sanctions are concerned, the position under Lausanne is that once the IAEA has verified that Iran has taken all the agreed actions on its nuclear programme—and only at that point—Iran will receive phased sanctions relief, including comprehensive relief from economic and financial sanctions. The interim plan provides for proliferation-related measures to remain in place until the international community has confidence in the peaceful nature of Iran’s programme. Importantly, Iran will remain bound by its non-proliferation treaty obligations both during and after a deal. We will not hesitate to take action, including through the re-imposition of sanctions, if Iran at any time violates its obligations under a comprehensive deal. To respond to the shadow Minister, one thing we and our partners are discussing is how to devise the mechanism for the snapback of sanctions in the event that Iran breaks from the terms of a deal that it has agreed. Obviously any final agreement will contain far more detail than I am able to set out today, but we are confident that a deal within the Lausanne framework will achieve what we set out to do.

Turning to some of the questions raised in the debate, the hon. Member for Dudley North asked about the joint committee. The joint committee mechanism would be set up only in the wake of a deal. It would be a format within which issues relating to the implementation of the agreement could be discussed by all parties together. It would be a deliberative forum. The political reality is that Iran would be present along with the six negotiating partners. One may want to be very pessimistic and say that the six will not be able to maintain solidarity. So far, there has been a very good working relationship among the three EU members, the United States, Russia and China, but were something to go wrong, it would remain the reality that the three European countries and the United States would constitute a majority on the joint committee.

On access, it is essential that the IAEA is able as part of any agreement to verify all of Iran’s nuclear-related commitments, including through access to relevant locations. That must include robust monitoring of Iran’s nuclear activities and how it implements the additional protocol, which it will need to sign up to once again as part of any agreement. Under a comprehensive agreement, Iran, by implementing the additional protocol to the NPT, will provide the IAEA with substantial access to its declared nuclear facilities. Also, under the additional protocol the IAEA can request access to any location in Iran that it chooses, including non-declared and military sites. For a comprehensive agreement to be credible, we will need to ensure that the IAEA can obtain that access. It needs to be more than just words on paper. The detail of how we can ensure confidence in the IAEA having the access it believes it needs is central to the ongoing negotiations.

If Iran implements the additional protocol, the IAEA will have additional rights to information on and access to the entire Iranian fuel cycle, including uranium mines and some parts of the centrifuge production process. That will clearly give the IAEA a better understanding of Iran’s nuclear fuel cycle and make the diversion of nuclear materials more difficult than it has been.

The question on access to scientists, which was raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich, relates to what is sometimes termed the possible military dimension of Iran’s programme. The IAEA is keen to see that addressed. The six and Iran agree that the resolution of outstanding issues remains essential, particularly those related to the possible military dimensions, or PMD, of the Iranian nuclear programme. The completion of measures to address the IAEA’s concerns over PMD will constitute one of the set of “key nuclear-related actions” that Iran must complete following agreement at Lausanne of the joint comprehensive plan of action. The IAEA director-general has been careful to separate the talks taking place under the framework for co-operation signed by the IAEA and Iran on 11 November 2013 from the E3+3 process. He has said that he hoped they would be mutually beneficial, and we continue to share that view.

Iran will need to address the IAEA’s concerns about the possible military dimensions of its programme, regardless of the outcome of the E3+3 talks and any joint comprehensive plan of action. We note and are disappointed by the extremely limited progress on PMD reported by the IAEA in its board report of 29 May. We continue to give our full support to the IAEA, which has continued to engage with Iran at short notice and has tried to demonstrate maximum flexibility on what it sees as the essential need to get to the bottom of the PMD question.

Concerns were expressed about whether a time-limited agreement could be a problem, because Iran might just massively expand its nuclear programme once the period of the agreement expired. The key point to make is that a comprehensive deal would lead to significantly increased transparency, in particular through the implementation of the additional protocol and modified code 3.1, and those measures do not expire at the end of any deal; they are permanent and will ensure that Iran’s programme remains transparent and subject to verification by the IAEA, providing reassurance to the international community about the peaceful nature of that programme. Iran remains bound by its NPT obligations during and after any deal. The deal is attractive to Iran because of the huge economic benefits it would bring, and that gives it a significant incentive to keep its nuclear programme exclusively peaceful. I said that we will not hesitate to take action, including through the reimposition of sanctions, if Iran violates its NPT obligations at any time. Our hope is that the implementation of a comprehensive agreement, with all the benefits that that would bring to the people of Iran, would mean that the Iranian Government would not wish to take such a step.

A nuclear deal would also make a significant contribution to regional stability. It goes without saying that the alternatives to a diplomatic settlement are a nuclear-armed Iran or a military confrontation aimed at stopping its nuclear programmes. Those would be terrible outcomes for the region at large. If Iran had or was believed to have nuclear weapons, the risk of a nuclear arms race in the middle east would be serious indeed. By contrast, a deal that ensured that the Iranian programme was exclusively peaceful would have a significant positive regional impact. Improved trust and confidence could go a long way in easing the tensions of a volatile and dangerous region.

At the same time, we completely understand that Israel and our partners in the Gulf have concerns. To them we say, as we have said consistently: we do not want and will not do a bad deal. We will only do a deal that provides assurances about the peaceful nature of Iran’s programme. Securing such a deal, if it is indeed attainable, is inherently better than the alternatives.

Our relationships with our partners in the region—our commitment to talking to them and keeping them up to date with our views and the progress of the talks—will remain. We will not turn a blind eye to Iran’s destabilising actions in the region, but we will work with both our partners and Iran to support and encourage in the Iranian Government a more constructive regional attitude. By reaching a nuclear deal, Iran can start to show willing, and it can show us that it is willing to work towards solutions to regional challenges.

On the bilateral relationship, a comprehensive deal would bring potential benefits to the UK as well as to Iran. If—I say “if”—Iran not only strikes a deal but adheres to its commitments and so sanctions are lifted, the Government will help British business in whatever way they can to take advantage of the resulting opportunities and to promote trade and investment between the two countries. A functioning British embassy in Tehran would be an important part of the Government’s role. We have been clear from the start that the reopening of our embassy is not dependent on a nuclear agreement, and we remain committed to reopening it as soon as we have resolved some outstanding issues relating to the practical functioning of the mission.

Sending our diplomats back to Tehran would not, however, mean setting aside all differences with Iran. We continue to disagree on a number of core topics, not least Iran’s record on human rights and approach to regional stability. Nevertheless, an embassy in Tehran would allow us to engage the Government and people of Iran on a full spectrum of issues, just as we do in many other countries around the world with whose Governments we also have profound disagreements. Increased dialogue is in our mutual interests and the only way to move forward.

We have the opportunity to settle one of the most complex foreign policy problems of our time. To have got even this far is a remarkable achievement and a testament to the dedication, perseverance and creativity of diplomats and officials from all sides, including Iran. It demonstrates what can be achieved when we allow the time and space to settle differences through diplomatic means. There is an historic opportunity for Iran, the region and the international community, but we cannot and will not make a deal at any price. An agreement is worth having only if it delivers our key objective of ensuring that Iran’s nuclear programme can only ever be peaceful, and it must deliver that outcome in a credible, verifiable way.

We face some difficult discussions in the coming hours and days, and, whatever the outcome in Vienna, we will continue to have our differences with Iran on regional issues and human rights. However, a deal within the parameters agreed in Lausanne remains the best way to secure the assurances we seek on Iran’s nuclear programme—the best way for Britain, the region and the global community.

Foreign Affairs Council and General Affairs Council

David Lidington Excerpts

Wednesday 1st July 2015 Written Statements

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs attended the Foreign Affairs Council on 22 June. The Foreign Affairs Council was chaired by the High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Federica Mogherini. She also hosted the Secretary-General of the United Nations Ban Ki-moon for a working lunch with EU Foreign Ministers. The General Affairs Council was chaired by the Latvian presidency. The meetings were held in Luxembourg.

Foreign Affairs Council

A provisional report of the meeting and conclusions adopted can be found at:

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/meetings/fac/2015/06/22/

Mediterranean migration

The Council approved the Council decision to launch the EU CSDP operation in the southern central Mediterranean (EUNAVFOR MED), activating phase I—deployment and assessment. Ms Mogherini was grateful to member states for launching the operation in record time. The Foreign Secretary said that the UK supported the operation, and was contributing a ship, HMS Enterprise, and a Merlin helicopter. The Foreign Secretary called for an audit of additional EU activity in source and transit countries to be presented at the July FAC, work on a stronger evidence base on migrant movements in source and transit countries, enhanced EU investment and a clear roadmap to the Valletta summit.

Energy diplomacy

The Council discussed how to use EU foreign policy most effectively to meet the growing geopolitical risks associated with energy, with a focus on diversification, alternative routes, EU unity and work with a wider set of partner countries. The Foreign Secretary underlined the necessity of rapidly completing the internal single market in energy, noting the importance of harmonising strategic energy goals with market incentives.

Asia

The Council held a strategic discussion on EU relations with Asia. There was general support for the need to continue to strengthen relations at a multilateral level, as part of a re-energised EU approach to the region. There was an emphasis on trade and economic co-operation, including in the exchange of views on relations with China, ahead of the EU-China summit, which took place on 29 June 2015. There was also discussion of developing better connectivity in Asia, with a focus on ensuring compatibility with European transport networks.

EU-UN co-operation

During lunch UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, focused on preparations for forthcoming UN high-level events, including those taking place in Addis Ababa in July on financing for development, in New York in September on the post-2015 agenda and the climate change COP21 in Paris in December. The discussion also covered EU-UN co-operation in tackling a number of current crises, and the Council approved EU priorities for the UN General Assembly.

Macedonia

The Council discussed the political situation in Macedonia. Ms Mogherini expressed grave concern regarding the ongoing political crisis, and welcomed the close co-operation between the EEAS and Commission. There was wide agreement that the current situation was unacceptable. Conclusions were subsequently adopted by the General Affairs Council on 23 June.

Any other business

Middle east peace process

Ms Mogherini briefed the Council following her recent trip to Jerusalem and Ramallah. Discussion centred on how the EU and its member states could most effectively support the peace process. The Foreign Secretary emphasised the need for a coherent approach, and noted the important role of the EU, particularly on issues around settlements and Gaza. Ms Mogherini proposed a discussion item on the middle east peace process at the 20 July FAC.

Ministers agreed without discussion a number of measures:

The Council launched the EU naval operation to disrupt human smuggling in the Mediterranean;

The Council adopted the EU priorities at the United Nations and the 17th UN General Assembly—September 2015 to September 2016;

The Council adopted conclusions on EU-ASEAN relations;

The Council adopted conclusions on the forthcoming elections in Burma;

The Council adopted conclusions on the EU strategy for central Asia;

The Council adopted conclusions on Burundi;

The Council adopted conclusions on Lebanon;

The Council extended the EU economic sanctions, which responded to Russia’s destabilising role in eastern Ukraine, until 31 January 2016;

The Council approved the EU annual report on human rights and democracy in the world in 2014;

The Council adopted conclusions on common principles for multi-purpose cash-based assistance to respond to humanitarian needs;

The Council extended the mandate of Mr Lars-Gunnar Wigemark as European Union special representative in Bosnia and Herzegovina for a further four months—until 31 October 2015;

The Council amended the EU restrictive measures against the Syrian regime.

General Affairs Council

A provisional report of the meeting can be found at:

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/meetings/gac/2015/06/23/

The General Affairs Council (GAC) on 23 June focused on: Macedonia; preparation of the European Council on 25 and 26 June 2015; the 2015 European semester; and the better regulation agenda.

Macedonia

The GAC adopted Council conclusions in response to the ongoing political crisis in Macedonia.

These call on the political parties to honour their 2 June agreement and implement all the recommendations of the European Commission, starting with urgent reform priorities in relation to rule of law issues confirmed by, or arising out of, the current crisis. The Council will revert to the issue in the next months.

Preparation of the June European Council

The GAC prepared the 25 and 26 June European Council, which the Prime Minister attended. The June European Council focused on: migration, including follow up to the April European Council; security issues including common security and defence policy, the European security strategy and follow-up to the February European Council on terrorism; and economic and competitiveness issues including the digital single market, 2015 European semester, TTIP and economic governance in the euro area.

I emphasised the importance of a comprehensive approach to the Mediterranean migration situation including conclusions language on tackling the smugglers and the root causes of migration. I reiterated the Prime Minister’s recent announcement of the extension of the Syria vulnerable persons scheme, and that the UK did not intend to participate in EU burden-sharing proposals.

I also stressed the importance of progress on the digital single market, one of the biggest opportunities for the EU to reinforce competitiveness and innovation and focus on consumers, including a swift end to mobile roaming charges in the EU.

European semester

The GAC considered the country specific recommendations (CSRs), published by the Commission to all non-programme EU member states on 13 May, as part of the European semester process. CSRs were also considered by the Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council on 18 to 19 June and the Economic and Financial Affairs Council on 19 June.

The advice to the UK is to continue reducing the deficit, boost housing supply and address problems in the labour market, in line with the Government’s long-term economic plan.

Better regulation agenda

The GAC held an initial discussion on the recently published better regulation package by the European Commission. The key part of the package is theinter-institutional agreement (IIA) on better regulation, which focuses on red tape in the EU and the institutional co-operation among the Council of Ministers, the Commission and the European Parliament. The negotiations on the IIA are expected to commence shortly and expected to continue through the Luxembourg presidency of the EU.

I welcomed the Commission’s proposal and highlighted the importance of specifying regulatory burden reduction targets—in particular for SMEs—an independent assessment board, and the use of subsidiarity, proportionality, and national parliaments as the key vehicles to deliver democratic accountability to the EU.

[HCWS77]

European Union Referendum Bill

David Lidington Excerpts

Thursday 18th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Peter Grant]

Briefly, we intend to support amendment 3. As the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) said, only part of the problem was addressed earlier, and a major problem remains if the referendum is held on the date of other elections.

First, on a point of principle, if this is truly—certainly for voters in England—the most important democratic constitutional decision taken for 40 or more years, it is surely worth a day of its own rather than being tacked on to something else. A second, practical point is that some of the elections that are listed—the Scottish local government elections, for example—are run according to a completely different electoral system. Last time the local government elections took place on the same day as a straightforward first-past-the-post election, there were well over 100,000 spoilt ballot papers, because those who were voting in the local government elections did not understand how to vote in a different way. The one thing that we do not want is doubt about the result of the EU referendum caused by a lot of spoilt papers.

I am surprised that we are having to debate the impartiality of broadcasters. Members should be aware that there is a widespread perception in Scotland—I will not comment on whether I share it—that some broadcasters were not impartial during the Scottish referendum. I do not think that that tainted the validity of the result, but it has tainted the reputation of those broadcasters, and it may be a generation before it has been sufficiently restored. We need to send the broadcasters a message, whether through legislation or by some other means. We need to convey to them that this referendum has to be fair, which means that the broadcasters must be impartial and seen to be impartial, not only during the purdah but from today. Otherwise, the impression will be given that the referendum was not fair.

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

I shall deal first with the arguments about combination advanced by the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden). I shall then respond to what the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) said about electronic voting. If time permits, I shall also say something about clause 3 stand part and conduct rules.

Let me begin with combination. As the right hon. Gentleman said, we settled the issue of May 2016 on Tuesday, by means of amendment 55. In practice, what we are discussing today is whether we should also rule out any possibility of May 2017. I am not yet persuaded that the arguments are sufficiently compelling. The principle ought to be that the timing of a referendum concerning our future in or out of the European Union should be determined by the progress of negotiations at EU level. I suspect that once those negotiations have concluded and the Prime Minister is ready with his recommendation, there will be a pretty strong appetite in all parts of the House of Commons—and, I think, an even stronger one among British voters and, indeed, our partners in the European Union—for the issue to be brought to a head and settled as soon as possible, in so far as that is compatible with a campaigning period that is seen to be fair and that allows all the arguments to be set out clearly so that people can make a well-informed and deliberate choice.

Ultimately, it will be for Parliament itself to decide whether to approve the specific date that the Government propose. The Bill includes an order-making power for the Secretary of State to set down the referendum date, and that date must be approved through a statutory instrument, which must be tabled in accordance with the affirmative procedure. I can give an undertaking that the debate, whenever it comes, will take place on the Floor of the House. It will be for the House of Commons as a whole—and, separately, the House of Lords—to decide whether, in all the circumstances of the time, to agree to the date that the Government have proposed. Given the reservations that have been expressed about a hypothetical combination with local elections in May 2017, the Government will need to make a persuasive case at that time.

The right hon. Gentleman advanced his argument with his characteristic courtesy and in a constructive tone, so I shall try to respond in kind. I think that he underestimates the British public: I think that voters will be able to distinguish between the different outcomes that they want.

[Mr Jackson]

I have not always been too helpful to my right hon. Friend this week, but I hope to be helpful now. He will have noted that the Opposition spokesman did not address my point that there was a constitutionally significant vote in May 2011—whether or not he agreed with its taking place in the first place—and, at the same time, very important local elections. One did not invalidate the other. Also, in terms of purdah, voters were clear about the issues they were deciding on at the time. He did not address that issue in his remarks.

[Mr Lidington]

My hon. Friend is quite right. The precedent, from 2011, is that the British public were able to make that distinction perfectly reasonably in their own minds.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

If the Government have accepted the principle that there should be no clash with elections for the National Assembly for Wales, the Scottish Parliament and the Northern Ireland Assembly in 2016, why do they not go a step further, accept the amendment and rule out a referendum in 2017 at the same time as local authority elections?

[Mr Lidington]

Partly for the reasons that I have given, and also because I think there is a qualitative difference, which we acknowledged when we introduced amendment 55, between elections held for a constituent nation of the United Kingdom and elections held for local government. We accepted that distinction in the amendment we introduced earlier this week.

If we look at the number of occasions when local elections and general elections have been held on exactly the same day, we find plenty of examples where the public have indulged happily in ticket splitting, sending a Member to this House representing one political party and electing a different political party to run their local authority. The public are able to make that distinction perfectly well.

[Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con)]

The Minister and I have discussed this issue before, but I want to place on the record that my constituents, across Winchester and Chandler’s Ford, are quite capable of distinguishing between two elections. When they have one piece of paper for a parish election, for a district election or even for a county election, as well as a parliamentary election on the same day, they seem to manage it.

[Mr Lidington]

My hon. Friend puts it very well.

[Andrew Gwynne]

May I take the Minister back to his earlier answer to the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) and point out politely that the population of Greater Manchester is greater than that of Northern Ireland and almost as large as that of Wales? We are going to have an inaugural election for a metro mayor, which is a creation of his own Government. Do we not deserve to have that argument separately from the EU referendum?

[Mr Lidington]

I take the hon. Gentleman back again to 2011, when we had the London mayoral election on the same day as the referendum on the voting system for the House of Commons. That did not appear to cause the electorate any great problems.

The other question that the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East put to me was about the difficulty of operating different regimes for purdah during overlapping electoral and referendum periods. To some extent, the riposte to that came from my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough (Mr Jackson), but given that the Government have this week undertaken to consult all parties on the appropriate framework for purdah in the run-up to the EU referendum, I am happy to take on board the right hon. Gentleman’s points as part of that consideration and future discussion.

There are some technical flaws in the Opposition’s amendment. There is, for example, no carve-out regarding by-elections, so an unanticipated by-election could inadvertently result in an agreed referendum date becoming invalid at short notice. Nor does it capture police and crime commissioner elections, which, if the amendment were agreed to, would still be possible on the same day as the referendum. Even if the right hon. Gentleman had his way, there would need to be some tidying up at a later date.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

rose—

[Mike Gapes]

rose—

[Mr Lidington]

I am overwhelmed by Members’ enthusiasm.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

The Minister implies there is more to be discussed and there has been too short a time to have a proper debate about the issue. It should be returned to on Report and, possibly, in another place before the final Bill is approved.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Lidington]

As I said earlier, whatever the decision in this House during our progress on the Bill, the House will discuss the timing of the referendum again when the Government table a statutory instrument to designate a date for that.

[Mike Gapes]

Have the Government considered the fact that if there is a referendum on the same day as local elections, in some wards one candidate for a party will be campaigning for a yes vote and another from the same party will be campaigning for a no vote? That might make it difficult for the political parties to co-ordinate their literature, apart from anything else, if they are going to take a united position.

[Mr Lidington]

One thing about the European referendum campaign, which I think the public will expect, is that people from both the hon. Gentleman’s party and mine will be campaigning in both the yes and no camps. Both parties are broad churches and we accept that that is a reality. I do not think the British public are incapable of understanding that the European question is one that cuts across normal party political boundaries.

I wish to move on to deal with the amendment on electronic voting tabled by the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington. I do not want to cause him too great a shock in saying that I am not wholly unsympathetic to some of the points he makes. I have been to Estonia and talked to Estonian Ministers about what they have put in place, not only on electronic voting, but in delivering almost all interaction between citizen and government through digital means. Given current advances in IT, I can see how e-voting sounds attractive, but we would have to consider a number of issues carefully and thoroughly before this country committed itself to going down that path.

Most obviously, there are genuine concerns that e-voting is not sufficiently rigorous and could be vulnerable to attack or fraud. The last thing that would serve the interests of Parliament or of democracy in this country would be for us to move swiftly to a system of electronic voting that led to still greater public mistrust in the integrity of our democratic process. Particularly when selecting elected representatives or deciding an issue of national importance in a referendum, it is essential that we have the highest possible security, and I am not convinced that we have the requisite assurance yet. Even in the short exchanges that have taken place on this subject, different views have been expressed about whether or not the pilots in the past have led to a serious increase in turnout. That is another point to be borne in mind.

[John McDonnell]

Even the Conservative elements of the campaign group have been a problem, too. May I suggest something to the Minister? This referendum will be in two years’ time, the Electoral Commission is focusing its work this year on electronic voting and we will have elections before then. Can we look again at reviving some of the pilots, at least for next year’s local government elections, so that we can learn the lessons and overcome the security issue, which he rightly mentions? Things have moved on from the last pilots and we need a new pilot to give us the confidence that we can then use e-voting more extensively in referendums.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Lidington]

I am sure my colleagues in the Cabinet Office, who lead on constitutional matters, will have heard that point. E-voting may be something that the Government will want to consider in the future, but it is not a priority immediately for the legislation to authorise the arrangements for this referendum.

I want to say a few things about the conduct rules more generally. Clause 4 provides that Ministers may make provision about the conduct of the referendum in regulations. The provisions in clause 3 and schedule 3 already set out the key aspects of the conduct of the referendum, and broadly they are concerned with the overall framework. In addition to those general provisions, it will be necessary to set out more detailed rules for conduct. Clause 4 grants Ministers the power to do so by regulation.

Our intention will be to draw on the rules used for the conduct of the parliamentary voting system referendum in 2011 and those used for elections more generally, in particular for our parliamentary elections. We will also take account of recent changes to electoral law to ensure that they also apply for the purposes of this referendum. The clause also requires that Ministers consult the Electoral Commission before making any regulations on these issues.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

The Minister will know that there have been serious concerns in the European Scrutiny Committee, the Chair of which is in the Chamber at the moment, but there is not the time at this stage to discuss bias in the media on European Union matters. Will there be a time on Report for a more thorough discussion of this, because there are some serious concerns? As he will know, the chair of the BBC Trust and the director-general of the BBC have both been before the European Scrutiny Committee to discuss the matter.

[Mr Lidington]

Obviously, what we discuss on Report will be in the hands of Members who table amendments. I have known my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash) for many years, and I know that he is ingenious and creative in finding opportunities for parliamentary debate on subjects that are close to his heart.

[Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con)]

With great respect, may I be ingenious for one moment, as I wish to put amendment 8 on the record? The amendment is supported by the Electoral Commission. Given the time that is available, I just want to say that the Electoral Commission supports the proposal, which is that the detailed regulations required to administer and regulate the referendum

“must be made and come into force not less than six months before the start of the referendum period.”

We do not propose pressing the amendment to a vote, but we would like to return to it on Report. I know that the Minister understands it, and that the Electoral Commission supports it.

[Mr Lidington]

My hon. Friend’s amendment proposes that the legislation be put in place at least six months before it is required to be implemented or complied with by campaigners or administrators. Although it is not necessary or appropriate in this specific case to set an arbitrary timeframe in statute, I can offer him some reassurance on the point. The reason for the Electoral Commission’s recommendation, to which he alluded, is that it is important to ensure that the people who are responsible for organising and administering a referendum and the people who will be responsible for accounting for expenditure on behalf of campaign organisations are clear about the rules that apply. To some extent, as I said a few minutes ago, the general framework of those rules is set out in the body of the Bill. The more detailed rules on conduct will be provided for by regulations that the Government will have the power, under the Bill, to table.

I can assure the Committee that it is the Government’s intention to publish the conduct regulations this autumn. That will mean, especially given the decision that the Committee took on Tuesday not to combine the referendum with the devolved local elections in May 2016, that there should be plenty of time for the Electoral Commission, and returning and counting officers and campaigners to familiarise themselves with the detail of the rules under which the referendum will be conducted. We would expect those detailed rules to cover such matters as the referendum timetable and the key stages within that; the provision of polling stations; the appointment of polling and counting agents; the procedure for the issue of ballot papers and for voting at polling stations; the arrangements for the counting of votes and declaration of results; the disposal of ballot papers and other referendum documents; arrangements for absent voters and postal and proxy votes and so on.

There will be a great deal of information, which it is our intention to have publicly available for everybody to see in the autumn of this year, well ahead of the referendum date. I hope that on that basis my hon. Friend the Member for Stone and others who have signed his amendment will be reassured that the Government are fully committed to our declared intention of ensuring that the referendum is conducted in an way that is not only fair but that is seen to be and is accepted as fair by everybody who takes part on both sides.

[John McDonnell]

I am not convinced that the Government are taking the matter of electronic voting seriously, but I welcome the warm words from the Minister that there could be some movement in the future. Although we might not be able to achieve it for this referendum, I hope that we can encourage the Electoral Commission to undertake pilots again next year that might resolve some of the issues with security. On that basis, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment proposed: 3, in clause 4, page 2, line 39, leave out subsection (2) and insert—

‘(2) The referendum shall not be held on the same day as:

(a) elections to the Scottish Parliament;

(b) elections to the National Assembly for Wales;

(c) elections for the Mayor of London; or

(d) local authority elections”. —(Mr McFadden.)

The amendment would prevent the referendum being held on the same day as Scottish Parliament, National Assembly for Wales, London mayoral or local authority elections.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

Foreign Affairs Council and General Affairs Council

David Lidington Excerpts

Tuesday 16th June 2015 Written Statements

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs will attend the Foreign Affairs Council on 22 June and I will attend the General Affairs Council on 23 June. The Foreign Affairs Council will be chaired by the High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Federica Mogherini, and the General Affairs Council will be chaired by the Latvian presidency. The meetings will be held in Luxembourg.

Foreign Affairs Council

Asia

Ministers will have a strategic discussion on Asia. The UK will emphasise the importance of deepening EU co-operation with Asia on traditional and non-traditional security challenges which affect all our interests, including involvement with regional multilateral structures such as the East Asia summit. On China, the UK will encourage member states to push for agreement on a substantial investment agreement, and to agree to seek a reference to an EU-China free trade agreement (FTA) in the EU-China summit’s joint statement, alongside an ambitious statement on climate change. The UK will also encourage the EU to make progress on the EU-Japan FTA. The UK will highlight its positive engagement with the Asia Infrastructure Investment Bank and encourage other member states to do the same. Council conclusions on strengthening partnership between the EU and ASEAN and on Burma ahead of the November elections are also likely to be adopted.

Lunch with UN Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon

EU Foreign Ministers will attend a lunch hosted by High Representative Ms Mogherini with UN Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon. This is an opportunity to hear, first hand, the most pressing areas of interest for the Secretary-General. Discussions are expected to cover a range of issues including the post 2015 development agenda, UN climate negotiations, migration in the Mediterranean, Yemen, Syria and Libya.

Mediterranean migration

Mediterranean migration will be on the agenda for the 25 and 26 June European Council (JEC), and ahead of this will be discussed at the JHA Council (16 June) and FAC (22 June). Some member states want to agree arrangements to share the burden of refugees across the EU. We also expect discussion of a CSDP operation to disrupt the smugglers’ business model. We need to break the link between being rescued and automatic entry into the EU, which means challenging the people smugglers’ business model that encourages potential economic migrants to believe that they can achieve settlement in Europe. We will argue strongly, at the FAC and JEC, that tackling the flows requires a comprehensive approach, incorporating development, capacity- building and good governance work in source and transit countries, action against smugglers, and robust arrangements to return economic migrants to source countries. We will also be pressing the EU and member states to put their weight behind a political deal in Libya and—if one is agreed—strongly support a Government of National Accord.

Energy diplomacy

The European External Action Service (EEAS) has produced an “energy diplomacy action plan” for consideration by Ministers. The plan proposes EU foreign policy measures and actions in follow up to the European Commission’s communication of February 2015 “A Framework Strategy for a Resilient Energy Union with a Forward-Looking Climate Change Policy” and the March 2015 European Council conclusions. The UK broadly welcomes efforts to make best use of the EU’s external diplomacy and co-operation mechanisms where this can add value to the work of member states in support of secure, sustainable and competitive energy supplies. While further co-operation between member states and the EU institutions may be useful in some situations, the UK will continue to argue against any extension of EU competence in the international energy sphere.

Macedonia

We expect a discussion on the ongoing political crisis in Macedonia and an update on EU-facilitated talks with political leaders.

General Affairs Council

The General Affairs Council (GAC) on 23 June is due to focus on: preparation of the European Council on 25 and 26 June 2015; the 2015 European semester; the better regulation agenda; and Macedonia.

Preparation of the March European Council

The GAC will prepare the 25 and 26 June European Council, which the Prime Minister will attend. The June European Council agenda is expected to include Mediterranean migration and security and defence issues as well as economic issues—including the digital single market, the country specific recommendations of the 2015 European semester and a report on better economic governance in the euro area. The Prime Minister will continue his discussions with other leaders on EU reform.

European semester

The GAC will consider the country specific recommendations (CSRs), published by the Commission to all non-programme EU member states on 13 May, as part of the European semester process. CSRs will also be considered by the Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council on 18 and 19 June and the Economic and Financial Affairs Council on 19 June.

The advice to the UK is to continue reducing the deficit, boost housing supply and strengthen the labour market. These are generally in line with the Government’s long-term economic plan.

Better regulation agenda

The GAC will hold an initial discussion on the recently published better regulation package by the European Commission. The key part of the package is the inter institutional agreement (IIA) on better regulation. The IIA focuses on red tape in the EU and the institutional co-operation among the Council of Ministers, the Commission and the European Parliament.

Macedonia

We expect a short discussion on the ongoing political crisis in Macedonia and an update on EU-facilitated talks with Macedonia’s political leaders. We expect short conclusions setting out the EU’s concerns about the current political crisis.

[HCWS37]

European Union Referendum Bill

David Lidington Excerpts

Tuesday 9th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

Like the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden), I first wish to congratulate all 12 hon. Members who made their maiden speeches today—the hon. Members for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders), for Ilford North (Wes Streeting), for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Drew Hendry), for Fermanagh and South Tyrone (Tom Elliott), for Halifax (Holly Lynch) and for Glasgow South (Stewart McDonald) and my hon. Friends the Members for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully), for Havant (Alan Mak), for Torbay (Kevin Foster), for Wealden (Nusrat Ghani), for North Devon (Peter Heaton-Jones) and for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman). I do not have time to do justice to their contributions, but what struck me listening to all 12 speeches was that each Member spoke with warmth and respect about his or her predecessor, regardless of which party that predecessor had come from. That is an important reminder to ourselves and the world outside the Chamber that we respect each others’ views even when we profoundly disagree.

I notice that all hon. Members who spoke today for the first time rightly paid tribute to the glories of their constituencies, and also spoke with a sense of awe—that is not too strong a word—about the trust that has been placed in them by their electors. That is something that those of us who have been knocking around here for a few years need to remember and to strive to keep in mind. The House will look forward to hearing from all 12 of those hon. Members again in the future.

We have heard many other speeches today, some from relatively new and still enthusiastic Members of the House and other speeches that had more of the character of national treasures, with time-honoured arguments that had a certain familiarity for me, having sat through debates on Europe for the past five years.

In the little time that I have, I want to concentrate on some of the questions and concerns expressed about the content of the Bill, rather than on the broader debate about Europe, which we will have ample time to consider in the months ahead and during the referendum campaign. I simply say on that point that, as far as the Government are concerned, the objective that we are pursuing is that set out by the Prime Minister in his Bloomberg speech in January 2013—to seek changes to the European Union to make Europe more competitive, more democratic, more flexible and more respectful of the diversity of its member states than it is at the moment. We believe that such changes would be in the interests of Europe as a whole, but would also have the benefit of enabling the people of the United Kingdom to feel comfortable with their place in the European Union in a way that they do not today.

[Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)]

Seventeen years ago I authored a pamphlet entitled, “Britain’s Place in the World: Time to Decide”. This is an opportunity to make a decision on the running sore in British politics of our relationship with the European Union, and it is essential that the Bill lays the foundation for a fair referendum.

[Mr Lidington]

My hon. Friend is correct and I believe that is what the Bill provides. The Bill is about delivering on the Government’s pledge to put the decision about the nature of our relationship with the European Union to the people of the United Kingdom so that they can take it on behalf of us all, whatever the differences between the political parties.

[Alex Salmond]

The Minister has been here throughout the debate. He will have heard, from representatives from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and indeed from across the Chamber and from all points of view, of the unwisdom and unacceptability of holding the referendum on the same day as the national polls next year. Will he now rule that out?

[Mr Lidington]

What we are providing for in the Bill is a power to set a date by order. The only thing on the face of the Bill is that the referendum must be held, at the latest, by the end of 2017. We are at the start of negotiations and we do not know when they will be concluded, but that is the right approach to take. It is Parliament that will have the right, when the order comes before it, to decide whether the date proposed is the right one or not. I will also say—this is the point the right hon. Gentleman made during his speech earlier—that when the Government come to set a date, if that date were to require combination with other elections of some kind, we would obviously at that point make our views known and provide a full explanation to the House in line with what the Electoral Commission proposed in its report of December last year.

A large number of right hon. and hon. Members spoke about the importance of securing a fair referendum. I agree with that. Many of the concerns expressed related to matters of campaign funding. The arrangements provided for in the Bill rest upon those provided for in the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. Campaigners who do not wish to register with the Electoral Commission are allowed to spend up to £10,000. Campaigners who are registered with the Electoral Commission—these have to be permissible campaigners and donors under our electoral law—have other rules that apply to them. The two designated lead campaign groups will have an equal maximum limit available to them of £7 million. Each of those groups will be entitled to receive a Government grant of £600,000. Each will have the right to a free mailshot to all homes and each will have the right to a television broadcast. Other permitted participants in the campaign will be subject to a maximum of £700,000 each. Political parties are, of course, free to campaign. The ceiling on their permitted expenditure will depend on their vote share at the general election, in line with the provisions in the 2000 Act.

[Mr Jenkin]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Lidington]

If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I have very little time and there were many points made in a very long debate to which I wish to respond.

The hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) asked about the position of the European Commission and foreign Governments. They cannot be permissible donors under our law, so they would not be entitled to contribute to the lead organisations for either campaign, or make donations of any kind. We cannot pass law in this House that has extraterritorial impact on foreign Governments and international institutions. They have both certain freedoms and responsibilities under the Vienna conventions on how they operate in this country. I can say, from a recent conversation I have had already with the head of the European Commission office in London, that I think the Commission is aware that the very last thing that would help a yes campaign in a European referendum would be a flood of glossy literature from the European Commission going through people’s letterboxes. I would trust the proper diplomatic relationships with Governments and institutions, and encourage them to stick by their duty to respect the right of the British people to take their own decision responsibly. I do not think that their intervention needs to be feared.

I will write to the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds), who raised detailed points about foreign companies. All I would say is that we are simply applying the rules as they currently exist within the overall legislation on political parties, elections and referendums.

Many right hon. and hon. Members spoke about section 125 of the 2000 Act and the Government’s proposal that it be disapplied. I emphasise the points that the Foreign Secretary made earlier. Normal EU business will not stop during a UK referendum campaign, but the phrasing of the 2000 Act is so broad that it could prevent the Government from, for example, setting out in any published form its position on the mid-term review of the multi-annual budget, on ECJ court cases that have an impact here, on negotiations on annual budgets, on trade negotiations or on EU foreign policy initiatives. That would not be a sensible position for us or any Government to get themselves into. For this referendum the public will expect the Government, as the Government, to make their recommendation clear, to explain their reasons for that recommendation and to respond to questions put to them by electors during the course of the campaign. It is for those two reasons that we propose to disapply section 125.

The question I take from the debate is this: how do we provide the credible assurances that give effect to what my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary said—that the Government will be restrained in their use of public money and have no wish to compete with the umbrella campaign organisations whose job it will be to lead the yes and no campaigns? I acknowledge the constructive way in which the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) responded to the Foreign Secretary’s speech on that point. As the Bill goes forward over future weeks and months, within the House we will need to consider how we put in place the right framework so that what my right hon. Friend talked about will be given proper effect, while giving the Government the freedom to publish without being constrained in the way I have described.

We will come to questions about the franchise in Committee of the whole House next week. I simply say to those who have argued for EU citizens to be enfranchised that it is straightforward and in accordance with referendum precedent for the United Kingdom as a whole that we rely on a general election franchise, rather than on the franchise for local and national elections.

On the question of 16 and 17-year-olds, I accept that there are strongly held views in this House on both sides of that debate, but the proper occasion to have that debate will be in the form of legislation to amend our arrangements on the Representation of the People Acts, so that we can debate the principle and decide as a House whether to apply that rule to all future elections and referendums—not to make some one-off exception for this referendum on the United Kingdom’s place in the European Union.

There have been a large number of detailed points made by right hon. and hon. Members in all parts of the House. I shall try to respond in detail to those Members whose points I have not been able to address in the course of my concluding remarks in the form of letters over the next week. We will have the opportunity very soon, in the form of Committee of the whole House, to explore some of these matters in further detail.

I believe, however, that this Bill provides a straightforward, fair and effective framework for the British people to decide our country’s future in Europe. This Bill delivers on a promise that the Government of the United Kingdom made to the people of the United Kingdom at the general election, and I commend it to the House.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Lidington Excerpts

Tuesday 9th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con)]

7. What his policy is on continuation of EU sanctions on Russia until that country complies in full with its obligations under the Minsk agreements.

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

Sanctions were imposed because Russia invaded and annexed Crimea and intervened in eastern Ukraine. They can be rolled back when Russia has taken steps to comply with international law and its own commitments, starting with the full implementation of the Minsk agreements.

[Alec Shelbrooke]

The sanctions on the Russian regime are clearly starting to have an effect, but does my right hon. Friend agree that support for the democratically elected Government of Ukraine is also important? Will he describe the action that the Government are taking to support the democratically elected president, President Poroshenko, in moving forward to defend Ukraine from Russia?

[Mr Lidington]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of helping the elected Government of Ukraine. The United Kingdom has provided Ukraine with technical assistance to support economic and administrative reform as well as humanitarian aid and non-lethal military assistance. We stand ready to discuss with the Ukrainian Government what further ways we might be able to help them in their task.

[Mr Jackson]

Will my right hon. Friend commit to working with the Defence Secretary to ensure that the toughest possible sanctions are applied to Russia until all the Minsk II protocols are met, and that Russia is aware that threats to Moldova and the Baltic states will result in the most severe repercussions?

[Mr Lidington]

My hon. Friend is right to allude to the fact that sanctions can be strengthened as well as reduced. It all depends on what Russia chooses to do. We have demonstrated our strong commitment to our NATO allies in the Baltic states through our participation in air policing and NATO training exercises in that region, and our solidarity with them will certainly continue.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

We hear this morning of even more tragic deaths in Ukraine. When will all this stop? Sanctions are not enough. The Russians are looking closely at us as we run down our defence forces and do not commit to the 2% spending level. That is a fact—the Secretary of State does not like it, but the fact is that a weak Britain, weak in Europe, is not good for our country.

[Mr Lidington]

I think it is generally accepted that there is not a military solution to the conflict in eastern Ukraine. That is why we are determined to continue with the diplomatic and political path on which we, together with our partners and allies, have embarked. We need to see the Minsk agreements implemented in full and, in particular, for the OSCE monitoring mission to be given access to the areas controlled by the separatists, which is still not happening.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

I am pleased to hear the Minister say that there is no military solution in this case. Over the weekend the Foreign Secretary reportedly said that “unnecessary provocations” must be avoided when dealing with Russia but, when asked, he did not rule out the placement of US nuclear missiles on UK soil. Will he take the opportunity to rule that out very firmly?

[Mr Lidington]

We have not been asked by the United States for such a location. If we received such a request, we would consider it on its merits in the way that successive British Governments always have done.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

Given that evidence was submitted to the Foreign Affairs Committee that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office had no in-house Crimea experts at the time of the Russian annexation, does the Minister agree that greater investment is required in our analytical capabilities?

[Mr Lidington]

We have an extremely talented team of analysts working in the eastern European and central Asian directorate within the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. In the light of events over the past 18 months, we have taken steps to strengthen the capacity of that side of the FCO. It is fair to say that most Governments throughout the world had hoped on the basis of the past 25 years’ experience that Russia was moving towards integration in a rules-based international order. It is clear from the actions that Russia has taken in the past year that that cannot be guaranteed and we need to respond accordingly.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

The G7 communiqué agreed in Germany states that

“we…stand ready to take further restrictive measures in order to increase cost on Russia should its actions so require. We expect Russia to stop trans-border support of separatist forces and to use its considerable influence over the separatists to meet their Minsk commitments in full.”

Given the clear evidence that Russia continues to pursue its proxy war in the Ukraine, what more will the Government do to ensure European unity and maximum pressure on Russia in the sanctions process? On today of all days, does the Minister agree that our role as a strong voice for united European action in the face of Russian aggression would be helped if we did not leave the European Union—a move that would delight President Putin?

[Mr Lidington]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his final words. If he looks at how the United Kingdom Government have been engaged since the Ukraine crisis began, he will see that my right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have been decisive in getting a tough EU sanctions regime in place against Russia. We are actively engaged in contingency planning should those sanctions need to be further strengthened in response to Russia’s actions. When I saw the Russian ambassador last week, I emphasised to him the need for the Minsk agreements to be implemented in full, including access to all territory for the external observers.

[Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con)]

2. What discussions he has had with his EU counterparts on prospects for reform of the EU.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

12. What steps his Department is taking to protect Christians from persecution worldwide.

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

Freedom of religion and belief is one of the Government’s core human rights priorities. We try to help Christians facing persecution overseas through our bilateral diplomacy and our participation in international organisations, most notably the United Nations Human Rights Council.

[Jessica Morden]

Christians suffer the most persecution globally, and many of my constituents with relatives in Syria and Iraq, and Church groups, rightly campaign to highlight that. People of different faiths and atheists are at risk in different parts of the world. What more can the UK do to promote more collaboration between faith communities to promote more religious tolerance?

[Mr Lidington]

Obviously, the approach that is likely to work best will vary from one country to another, but we do, for example, through the Department for International Development, fund a number of programmes that try to help community and religious leaders in particular conflict-torn parts of the world to learn the importance of religious tolerance and to apply that within their own societies.

[Mr Mark Prisk (Hertford and Stortford) (Con)]

Given this country’s excellent record in defending liberty abroad, may I strongly encourage Ministers to make religious freedom a strategic priority, as proposed by the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Religious Liberty Commission?

[Mr Lidington]

We certainly continue to treat religious freedom and the freedom of people to express their beliefs as a core element of our broader human rights agenda. It is often Christian communities themselves who say that it helps them if their own concerns are presented within that broader human rights context.

[Mr Speaker]

Last but not least, I call Cat Smith.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Does the Secretary of State share my relief that the Turkish people have, for the time being at least, called a halt to the creeping Islamisation of their country? What assessment has he made of political stability in that important NATO ally?

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

The fact that there was a turnout of no less than 86% in the Turkish parliamentary election demonstrates the vigour of Turkish democracy. We are looking forward to working with the new Government, once they are formed, as there are many important political, economic and strategic interests that the UK and Turkey share.

[Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab)]

It is very important that a nuclear deal with Iran is not made at any price. The P5+1 must stand firm if Iran will not accept any-time inspections of all suspect sites or come clean on possible military dimensions of the nuclear programme, as suspected by the International Atomic Energy Agency. Should Britain and the P5+1 not engage much more closely with Arab states and Israel, who share concerns about an agreement that in a few years would allow Iran to greatly expand its nuclear programme?

Foreign Affairs Council/Foreign Affairs Council (Defence)/General Affairs Council

David Lidington Excerpts

Monday 1st June 2015 Written Statements

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Philip Hammond) attended the Foreign Affairs Council, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon) attended the Foreign Affairs Council (Defence), and they both attended a joint session with Foreign and Defence Ministers. I attended the General Affairs Council (GAC). The Foreign Affairs Council and Foreign Affairs Council (Defence) were chaired by the High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Federica Mogherini, and the General Affairs Council was chaired by the Latvian presidency.

Foreign Affairs Council and Foreign Affairs Council (Defence)

A provisional report of the meeting and conclusions adopted can be found at:

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/meetings/fac/2015/05/18/

Foreign Affairs Council (Defence) & European Defence Agency (EDA)

The EDA ministerial steering board discussion focused on preparations for the June European Council. The Defence Secretary welcomed the work that the EDA has done in delivering the major programmes agreed to at the December 2013 European Council and encouraged the agency to remain focused on delivering progress on these programmes at the June council. Ministers also endorsed the small medium enterprise (SME) action plan.

Defence Ministers discussed CSDP missions and operations in the Foreign Affairs Council (Defence), where greater political will by member states in force generation and increased EU-NATO co-operation were highlighted as being key to success. The Defence Secretary reaffirmed the UK’s support for the counter piracy, operation EU Naval Force Atalanta and highlighted that a combination of naval forces and development of best management practice by industry and private contractors remained important in order to suppress the pirates’ business model. The Defence Secretary also emphasised the UK’s continued commitment to the maintenance of the Executive mandate for EUFOR Althea. This mandate was an essential international safeguard against a return to violence in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Joint Meeting of Foreign Affairs Council and Foreign Affairs Council (Defence)

Over lunch, EU Defence and Foreign Ministers exchanged views on the security in the EU’s broader neighbourhood with NATO Security General Jens Stoltenberg. Ministers then discussed the preparations for the European Council in June 2015, which cover the common security and defence policy, and debated ongoing work reviewing changes in the EU’s strategic environment, including the preparation of a report by the High Representative to the European Council on 25-26 June. The Foreign Secretary noted that the June European Council should be a stocktake of the work begun in December 2013 and highlighted the importance of the EU’s co-operation with NATO.

The Council then took stock of the follow-up to the European Council of 23 April, which focused on migration issues. It approved a crisis management concept for a possible EU military operation and established an EU naval operation to disrupt the business model of human smugglers in the southern central Mediterranean. The Foreign Secretary and Defence Secretary spoke in support of the establishment of the operation, but, noted that prior to its launch, clarity would be required on the handling of migrants rescued, smugglers apprehended, and the necessary legal base for the operation would need to be established. All four phases (surveillance/intelligence; seizure of vessels on the high seas; seizure and potentially destruction in Libyan waters/ashore; and withdrawal) needed to be enactable. A number of Ministers set out their position on resettlement and relocation, including the Foreign Secretary who made it clear that the UK would not accept compulsory resettlement.

Foreign Affairs Council

Middle East peace process (MEPP)

Ministers exchanged views on the situation in the middle east and on prospects for the peace process, following the formation of a new Israeli Government and ahead of a visit of the High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy to the region. Ms. Mogherini would be accompanied by Fernando Gentilini, the newly appointed EU Special Representative for the MEPP. The Foreign Secretary recognised the widespread frustration on the MEPP and argued that the EU should keep in step with the US and that there would likely be no progress until the Iran nuclear talks ended.

Other Items

Ministers agreed a number of other measures:

The Council adopted conclusions on Burundi;

The Council adopted conclusions on the Common Security and Defence Policy;

The Council adopted the EU position for the twelfth meeting of the EU-Uzbekistan co-operation in Brussels on 18 May; and

The Council adopted the draft agenda for the EU-Gulf co-operation Council Joint Council and ministerial meeting, to be held on 24 May 2015 in Doha.

General Affairs Council

A provisional report of the Council meeting can be found at: http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/meetings/gac/2015/05/19/.

The General Affairs Council (GAC) on 19 May focused on: follow-up to the April emergency European Council; preparation of the June European Council; and the four presidents’ report on economic governance in the euro area.

Follow-up to the April emergency European Council on migration

The Latvian presidency and European Commission updated the GAC on developments since the 23 April emergency European Council discussed migration pressures in the Mediterranean.

I reiterated the points made by the Foreign Secretary at the Foreign Affairs Council and informed members states about UK activities to help prevent further loss of life in the Mediterranean. I emphasised the importance of addressing the causes of illegal immigration and tackling the organised criminals behind it, and the need for the EU to focus on the longer term picture.

Preparation of the June European Council

The GAC began preparations for the 23 and 24 June European Council, which the Prime Minister will attend. The June European Council will focus on security and economic issues including: defence and the European security strategy; relations with Russia and Ukraine; follow-up of the February European Council on terrorism and April European Council on migration; the digital single market; the 2015 European semester; TTIP; and economic governance in the euro area.

Four presidents’ report on economic governance in the euro area

The European Commission updated the GAC on preparations of the four presidents’ report on the Economic and Monetary Union (EMU) to be presented to the June European Council.

[HCWS6]

Foreign Affairs Council and General Affairs Council

David Lidington Excerpts

Tuesday 24th March 2015 Written Statements

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs attended the Foreign Affairs Council on 16 March in Brussels. The Foreign Affairs Council was chaired by the High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Federica Mogherini.

Dimitris Avromopoulos, Commissioner for Migration, Home Affairs and Citizenship, was in attendance for the working lunch at the FAC on migration. The General Affairs Council was chaired by the Latvian presidency. The meetings were held in Brussels.

Foreign Affairs Council

A provisional report of the meeting and conclusions adopted can be found at:

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/meetings/fac/2015/03/16/

Africa

Ministers held an in depth strategic discussion on EU relations with Africa, covering peace, prosperity and partnership with regional African organisations. Ms Mogherini highlighted the opportunities Africa offered to the EU and was keen to emphasise that there was a story of progress, growth, and economic opportunity. The Foreign Secretary highlighted the need to focus on both challenges and opportunities, highlighting the contribution Africa could make to an EU energy strategy. He also highlighted the economic benefits that could flow from reform, with the prospect of greater inward investment for those countries that provided good governance and stability.

The Council adopted conclusions on Ebola, noting the scope for the EU and its member states to keep playing a leading role in supporting co-operation in the affected region to end Ebola and ensuring it did not resurge. The Council also adopted conclusions on the Gulf of Guinea action plan, and Mali.

Libya

Ministers discussed the situation in Libya and possibilities for EU support in the event of a positive outcome of the UN-led peace talks. Ms. Mogherini stressed the need for urgent consideration of possible EU support once a National Unity Government was established. The Foreign Secretary agreed that the EU needed to be prepared to respond swiftly to the different scenarios, and set out the importance of focusing on the twin-tracks of the political process and counter-terrorism. He also highlighted the need for the EU to focus on working with international partners to stem the flow of irregular migrants and weapons from Libya, and ensuring that Libya’s financial assets were safeguarded for the benefit of all Libyans. Other member states emphasised concerns over the humanitarian situation, irregular migration flows, energy instability and the rise of extremists. Ministers called on the high representative to prepare policy options, including on possible CSDP activities, ahead of the April FAC. The Commission was also invited to develop a comprehensive strategy for Libya, taking into account the regional context.

Migration

Over lunch, ministers explored how EU foreign policy could contribute to comprehensively tackling Europe’s migration challenges. The debate will feed into the preparation of more concrete proposals for decision at one of the next Foreign Affairs Councils.

Eastern Partnership

The FAC discussed preparations for the fourth Eastern Partnership summit in Riga on 21 and 22 May 2015. The summit, chaired by European Council President Donald Tusk, will bring EU heads of state or Government together with those of Eastern partner countries. A meeting between EU Foreign Ministers and their counterparts from the Eastern Partnership countries is scheduled to take place in the margins of the Foreign Affairs Council in April.

Other business

Hungary raised the situation of Christians in Iraq and passed on a request from the Chaldean Archbishop of Erbil for humanitarian assistance. Luxembourg raised Israel’s withholding of tax receipts from the Palestinian Authority.

Ministers agreed without discussion a number of other measures:

The Council adopted conclusions on the EU regional strategy for Syria and Iraq as well as the ISIL/Da’esh threat

The Council welcomed the political agreement to conclude the Bosnia-Herzegovina SAA

The Council approved the EU position for the EU-Ukraine Association Council: The EU agreed the EU-Ukraine Co-operation Council would adopt the EU-Ukraine association agenda

The Council established the EU position for the first meeting of the EU-Moldova Association Council, to take place on 16 March 2015 in Brussels

The Council adopted the EU position for the 11th meeting of the EU-Tunisia Association Council, which will be held on 17 March 2015 in Brussels

The Council authorised the EU to approve the implementation of the EU-Tunisia action plan at the EU-Tunisia Association Council

The Council extended the mandates of two EU special representatives until 31 October 2015:

1. EU Special Representative for the Horn of Africa, Mr Alexander Rondos. A budget of €1.77 million was allocated to him for the period between 1 March 2015 and 31 October 2015.

2. EU Special Representative for the Sahel, Mr Michal Reveyrand-de Menthon. €900.000 has been set aside for his activities during the period between 1 March 2015 and 31 October 2015.

The Council authorised the opening of negotiations for an agreement on co-operation between the United Nations and the European Union in crisis management operations

The Council extended the mandate of the EU military mission to contribute to the training of Somali security forces

The Council launched the EU military advisory mission in the Central African Republic

The Commission pledged €1 million to Vanuatu in the wake of Cyclone Pam.

General Affairs Council

A provisional report of the meeting and conclusions adopted can be found at:

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/meetings/gac/2015/03/17/

The General Affairs Council (GAC) on 17 March focused on: preparation of the European Council on 19 and 20 March 2015; and the European semester 2015.

Preparation of the March European Council

The GAC prepared the 19 and 20 March European Council, which the Prime Minister attended. The March European Council agenda covered: energy union, including energy security; the internal market and climate security; economic issues including the annual European semester process; and external relations issues, including Ukraine, Libya and the Eastern Partnership summit to be held in Latvia in May.

On energy union I emphasised the importance of having the right governance system in place. Member states must have flexibility to decarbonise in the most efficient way by choosing their own energy mix and the EU must not impose unnecessary burdens, as was recognised at the 2014 October European Council. I also welcomed the commitment to a technology and innovation strategy, but as set out in the Commission’s communication, this should cover the full range of emerging technologies.

On economic issues, I supported the goal of concluding negotiations on an ambitious, comprehensive and mutually beneficial TTIP agreement by the end of the year. I also emphasised the need to pursue the better regulation agenda and reduce regulatory burdens, especially for SMEs.

European semester 2015

The GAC noted the presidency synthesis report and updated road map for the 2015 European semester for further discussion at the March European Council.

Any other business

Under any other business, the presidency briefed the Council on a letter it had received from the Icelandic Minister for Foreign Affairs outlining the intentions of the Government of Iceland in relation to their application to join the EU.

[HCWS460]

1915 Armenian Genocide

David Lidington Excerpts

Monday 23rd March 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Ealing North (Stephen Pound) on securing the debate. I pay tribute to the moving way in which both he and my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale) spoke about the tragedy that befell the Armenian people just over 100 years ago.

It was on 24 April 1915 that about 250 leading members of the Armenian community in Istanbul were arrested. This marked the beginning of a campaign of forced deportations directed against the Ottoman Armenian community. From 1915 to 1916 during the course of the deportations to the Syrian desert, it is estimated that well over 1 million Ottoman Armenians lost their lives as a result of massacres by soldiers or irregulars, forced marches, starvation and disease. A number of other minorities, such as the Assyrians, also suffered.

The British Government of that time robustly condemned the forced deportations, massacres and other crimes. We continue to endorse that view. British charities, as we look back, played a major part then in humanitarian relief operations. The deaths of more than 1 million Armenians in the Ottoman empire was an appalling civilian loss of life against the backdrop of the first world war, a conflict which itself broke new ground in developing international warfare on an industrial scale.

Today, the centenary of those terrible events has huge significance, as the hon. Member for Ealing North said, for the people of Armenia and for the worldwide Armenian diaspora. As an inseparable part of the tragedy of first world war, it is entirely appropriate that we in this country include this tragedy in our remembrance of the first world war to honour the dead, and to draw lessons from history and hope for a better future. The British Government’s commemorations this year have focused on how the first world war shaped society and touched lives and communities. The deportation and massacres of the Ottoman Armenians, and the role played by the UK and other allies in reporting the atrocities and helping the survivors, are an indivisible part of that story. The events and commemorative activities, which the Armenian community in the UK will organise on 24 April and over the course of this year, will help to illuminate further that period of history for British people, some of whom may be hearing about it for the first time.

The appalling nature of the events of 1915-16 were brought home vividly to me when I visited the Tsitsernakaberd memorial museum in Yerevan during my first ministerial visit to Armenia in 2012. When I went back to Armenia last year, I laid a wreath at the memorial to pay my respects to those who had died and those who had suffered. As has been said, in this centenary year my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon, as chair of the British-Armenian all-party group, and our ambassador to Yerevan will be present at the Armenian Government’s commemorations on 24 April in the Armenian capital.

As discussed in today’s debate, for this country and the Commonwealth the dates of 24 and 25 April have great significance for an additional reason, as the days we remember the centenary of the allied landings at Gallipoli. On 24 April, His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales will attend a ceremony in Gallipoli to honour the memory of all those who died during the campaign, including soldiers from Britain, Ireland, France, Australia, New Zealand, the Indian subcontinent, Canada and Sri Lanka, as well as the Ottoman soldiers who died defending the peninsula. Those sombre commemorations in both Gallipoli and Yerevan should be used to honour the memory of those who lost their lives, whether soldiers or civilians, and to reflect carefully on the painful lessons we have learnt from history and how to prevent such events from happening again.

The hon. Member for Ealing North asked me a direct question about the Government’s policy on the recognition of the events in Armenia as a genocide. I have to say to him that the Government’s policy, indeed the policy of successive Governments, has not changed since 1988 when this matter was reviewed. We take the view that genocide is not simply an expression of a political judgment. It is now a crime, and the British Government recognise as genocide only those events found to be so by international courts—for example, the holocaust and the massacres in Srebrenica and Rwanda. We do not exercise a political judgment in ascribing the term “genocide” to a set of events, whether in Armenia, the Holodomor in Ukraine or the massacres of the Kurds by Saddam Hussein in 1998.

In honouring and reflecting upon the past, it is vital that we look to the future. The peoples and Governments of Turkey and Armenia need to find a way to face their joint history together and forge a new, more constructive relationship, and part of the role the UK seeks for itself is to support them in finding this path forward. I will not pretend that we from London can provide instant answers, but we are doing what we can practically to foster people-to-people exchanges and links between the two countries to break down stereotypes and barriers. For example, we have just completed a successful exchange of Turkish and Armenian Chevening alumni who visited each other’s countries for the first time.

Ultimately, the Governments of Armenia and Turkey must take the lead in forging and delivering that new relationship. For that reason, the UK Government strongly supported the imaginative diplomacy that led to the Turkish-Armenia protocols in 2009. The protocols envisaged opening the border and initiating diplomatic relations without any preconditions, and it is a matter of great regret that the ratification process for those protocols has not moved forward. I hope that both sides will continue to consider creative ways to re-set their relations and open up new channels for dialogue and co-operation.

This year, we will reflect with sadness on the nature and horrific scale of the deportations, massacres and other crimes in 1915-16 and on the importance of this centenary for Armenia and Armenians worldwide, but we will also renew our commitment this year to promote reconciliation between Armenia and Turkey. A genuine step forward along that path to reconciliation would take us towards a more peaceful and secure future for everyone living in the region. I continue to hope that both Turkey and Armenia can find a way to look together towards a brighter future.

[Stephen Pound]

I have immense respect for the right hon. Gentleman—he and I have met the President of Armenia, and I entirely respect his position—but immediately after the genocide, the British Navy took 50 of the worst suspects from the Young Turks to Malta to try them because it recognised that what had happened was against civilisation. There was not sufficient legislation at the time for the trial to take place so the British took them back—probably rightly so—but does he not agree that we need that recognition now so as to avoid such a situation in the future? I am not criticising Turkey. I am talking about the Ottoman empire.

[Mr Lidington]

I hesitate to get into a legal dispute with the hon. Gentleman, but we take the view, as have successive British Governments, that international law, including the 1948 protocol on genocide, is not retroactive, and that is part of the explanation for our position. That is not to detract from the horror of what took place 100 years ago, or to suggest that we will draw back from our commitment to seek the reconciliation of the peoples of Turkey and Armenia and to strive as hard as we can to bring about that much desired outcome.

Question put and agreed to.