LGBT International Rights

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Monday 12th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Black of Brentwood (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. I declare my interest as a patron of the Terrence Higgins Trust.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK is a strong supporter of lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans rights internationally through our overseas network, at the UN and through our co-chairmanship of the Equal Rights Coalition. During the recent UN General Assembly, I announced further UK support to help Commonwealth Governments and civil society to repeal outdated, discriminatory laws. Today, I can announce a further £800,000 of funding to support the work of the Commonwealth Equality Network.

[Lord Black of Brentwood (Con)]

My noble friend will know that, in many countries, the Covid-19 emergency has been used by Governments to curtail human rights, with LGBT people very much in the firing line in places such as Uganda and Turkey. Some, particularly in those countries where homosexuality is criminalised, have been jailed under the guise of enforcing Covid legislation. However, is my noble friend aware that the pandemic risks the progress that has been made internationally in tackling HIV, with a rise in new infections of up to 60% and possibly half a million extra deaths from AIDS predicted this year as a result of disruption to antiviral therapy services—with tragic consequences for those who are most marginalised and at risk? Will she commit to the protection of LGBT people as a core component of the Government’s international response to Covid, including preventing HIV transmission and ensuring that new vaccines and treatments are available to and affordable for all?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we are clear that states must not use Covid-19 as a cover for repressive action, including discrimination against LGBT citizens. Like my noble friend, I am concerned about the impact Covid is having on HIV care and prevention, and we are taking steps to action this. The global fund, to which the UK is the second-largest donor, is reallocating up to $1 billion to continue prevention and treatment services. The UK is fully committed to equitable global access to safe and effective Covid-19 vaccines.

[Lord Herbert of South Downs (Con)]

My Lords, I draw attention to my entry in the register of interests. As chair of the Government’s international LGBT conference, which regrettably had to be postponed, may I ask my noble friend to update the House on what is happening with this important event, which offers the opportunity to demonstrate to the world the Government’s commitment to the promotion of LGBT rights? Will she also say something about the opportunity to announce a funding commitment for the groups all around the world that fight hard to promote LGBT rights and which rely on support from the UK and other Governments?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we are looking forward to hosting the international conference. As my noble friend said, our ambitious plans, sadly, had to be postponed. We are looking at alternative options that will ensure that the event achieves all we want it to and is safe for our delegates; we hope to make an announcement on that shortly. We have a strong record on funding and supporting LGBT rights programmes, and that will continue.

[Baroness Hunt of Bethnal Green (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the UK is rightly proud of its record on both LGBTI rights and inclusion and the global power and influence of the FCDO. In order that we can strengthen our position on the global stage, will the Minister seek advice from countries with legislation that is more progressive than our own—including Ireland, Denmark, Malta and Portugal—so that we can be world-beating once again?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, the UK is recognised as one of the most progressive countries on LGBT rights and has one of the world’s strongest legislative frameworks to prevent and tackle discrimination. We are fully committed to the principle of non-discrimination on any grounds, including on the basis of sexual orientation and/or gender identity.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that on 27 September, an open letter was released urging the Polish Government to end discrimination against sexual minorities. It was sent by envoys from 50 countries, including the UK, the US, Israel, India and Poland’s EU partners. Many towns in Poland have declared themselves free from LGBT ideology. It is commendable that our ambassador signed the letter, but is that sufficient? Are there any plans for this message to be delivered to the Polish Government at ministerial level?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, our embassy in Warsaw works actively on this agenda with both civil society and the Polish Government, in close co-operation with our diplomatic partners. The noble Lord pointed to the letter that the UK ambassador recently signed. Earlier this year, the embassy hosted an expert round table with Polish businesses and LGBT groups. We fly the rainbow flag annually, and our embassy in Warsaw will continue to work on this important agenda and support the groups that are fighting for equal rights in Poland.

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, statistically, LGBT citizens of the United Kingdom enjoy greater rights than many people around the world, but citizens of our overseas territories do not. They often find themselves in legal limbo, whereby they cannot appeal to their Government or ours. What are the Government doing to close that legal loophole for citizens in our overseas territories?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness will know, the British Overseas Territories are separate and largely self-governing jurisdictions with their own democratically elected representatives. That said, we are seeing progress. I was delighted to see the Government of the Cayman Islands introduce civil partnerships legislation recently. We have seen good progress on that and I hope that other OTs will follow.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, Theresa May’s apology at the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in London in 2018 marked a turning point, placing the responsibility for laws that outlaw homosexuality at our door. I welcome the fact that the Government are topping up the fund, but how much progress has been made on decriminalisation in Commonwealth countries and are other countries contributing to the fund to ensure that we make more rapid progress?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we have seen good progress over the past two years. Our UK-funded Equality & Justice Alliance has helped to promote the full social, economic and political participation of all, has helped to support the creation and strengthening of movements for change and has delivered a series of dialogues across the Commonwealth. We hope to see further progress in Commonwealth countries.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

My Lords, trans rights in international competitive sport is a sensitive and important issue. Does my noble friend the Minister agree that leaving it to international sports federations and not enshrining it in domestic legislation is the only fair and sensitive way to address this incredibly difficult and sensitive issue, given that the current guidelines allow successfully transitioned athletes to compete internationally, subject to limiting testosterone levels as a metric in women’s competition categories?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend: it is right that sports bodies have the discretion to set their own rules on these issues.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, like my noble friend Lord Browne of Ladyton, I have issues with the regime in Poland. I welcome the Minister’s recent answer, but can I press her slightly further to confirm whether the UK Government, with allies, are exploring any further steps to support the LGBT population of Poland?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we are working closely with allies to support the LGBT community in Poland. Recently, we have seen concerning reports of local councils and regional administrations in Poland making themselves free of LGBT ideology. We are also working with all our allies to make it clear that we oppose all forms of discrimination and are committed to protecting and promoting the rights and freedoms of LGBT people in Poland.

[Baroness Warsi (Con) [V]]

My Lords, every country is on a journey in recognising LGBTQ rights. Indeed, over the past decade my party—particularly under the leadership of the right honourable David Cameron—and I have learned much and made huge strides. Will my noble friend accept, therefore, that we must always work with local campaigners to ensure that changes in other countries are both indigenous and long term? Will she join me in congratulating Pakistan on its achievements on transgender rights, including the appointment of a transgender rights adviser—Aisha Mughal, who last year became the first transgender person to represent their country at the UN—to its Ministry of Human Rights?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, I will happily join my noble friend in praising the right honourable David Cameron; I know that introducing marriage for same-sex couples was one of his proudest achievements. I agree that we must always work with local campaigners to ensure that the changes we see and the progress we make are sustainable. I also join my noble friend in welcoming this and congratulating Pakistan; it is important that we see transgender representation at all levels.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, the Government can now do independent trade deals, but as we know, some countries have capital punishment for LGBT people. What approach will the Government take to doing trade deals with countries that kill people just because of who they love?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we oppose the death penalty in all circumstances and oppose any discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation. We will continue to work with countries to remove the death penalty.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, should we not pay tribute to organisations such as the Human Dignity Trust and the Commonwealth Lawyers Association, whose work helps LGBT people in Commonwealth countries to gain their basic rights through their courts, most recently in Belize and Botswana? At the same time, should we not continue to deplore the oppression and suffering that remain the lot of gay friends and colleagues in most parts of the Commonwealth, in open defiance of that organisation’s charter?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, of course we fully support the Commonwealth charter and we are working closely to make sure that we are seeing progress in this area. I join my noble friend in paying tribute to the brave organisations that are working across the world. These are exactly the kind of organisations that we are supporting through the Commonwealth Equality Network. They work tirelessly to protect the rights of fellow citizens and ensure that LGBT people can live free from discrimination and violence.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Russell of Liverpool) (CB)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked, and we now move to the next Question.

Nagorno-Karabakh

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Wednesday 7th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking in relation to the conflict in the Nagorno-Karabakh region.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK continues to urge de-escalation and an immediate return to the negotiation table in our engagements with our partners, including the Azerbaijani Minister Bayramov and the Armenian Foreign Minister Mnatsakanyan. We have also been in contact with the Turkish and Russian authorities to discuss the matter and we continue to believe that the best solution to this conflict is a peaceful negotiation under the framework of the OSCE Minsk Group.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine (CB)]

My Lords, the sad fact is that innocent civilians are being maimed and killed while the Minsk process continues to fail them—as it has for over 25 years. But so, too, has NATO failed, in so far as Turkey’s rampant authoritarianism and turbo-charged nationalism imperils its allies’ interests in Syria, in Libya and, now, in Nagorno-Karabakh. Can the noble Baroness tell the House what discussions Her Majesty’s Government are having within NATO to curb Turkey’s power and reassess its membership as a last resort?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, I join the noble Baroness in her concern at the reports of civilian settlements being targeted. We are deeply concerned about that and, as I say, we urge an immediate return to the ceasefire. Yesterday, the NATO Secretary-General highlighted NATO’s concern about the escalation of hostilities and called for all sides to immediately cease fighting. He also said that he expects Turkey to use its considerable influence to calm tensions. We welcome these calls. Turkey is a key NATO partner and we continue to work in NATO to encourage it to use its influence to calm tensions.

[Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the war in the Caucasus over Nagorno-Karabakh is definitely worsening, with an increasing number of casualties, as areas determine to regain territory they consider theirs? What are the Government doing with other like-minded countries, not just in NATO, to at least get a ceasefire? Also, given that the US is preoccupied, are we really going to let Russia and Turkey literally call the shots?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, I acknowledge that we are seeing an increase and escalation in the fighting, which is deeply concerning. The UK is working at a number of levels to try to bring about an end to this, including in the OSCE and through our diplomats on the ground. Our Minister for European Neighbourhood has spoken to her counterparts and, yesterday, the Foreign Secretary issued a second statement with the Canadians. The US President and Secretary of State have also issued strong statements calling for a return to the negotiating table.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

I welcome that last answer from the Minister but, with the real possibility of a regional proxy war, should we not be calling on our NATO ally Turkey not to get further involved? As for Russia, which has influence on both sides, should we not ask it to get more involved?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we are working with both Turkey and Russia on this. We are speaking to the Russian authorities in Moscow and we are working closely with the Turkey and its Defence Minister. The Secretary of State visited Turkey last week and raised this issue. We are working with all parties that we need to in order to bring an end to this conflict.

[Lord Randall of Uxbridge (Con) [V]]

My Lords, what assessment, if any, have Her Majesty’s Government made of a potential increase in terrorist recruitment or activity as a result of this dangerous instability in the area?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we are of course working to ensure that external partners do not escalate this issue further. We call on all external partners to help bring about the peace that we need to see.

[Baroness Cox (CB) [V]]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that legal experts, such as Geoffrey Robertson QC, argue that Azerbaijan’s repeated claims to sovereignty over Karabakh can be refuted? It has always been predominantly occupied by ethnic Armenians. A referendum was held in 1992 with an overwhelming vote for independence, and Azerbaijan’s previous attempt at ethnic cleansing justifies Nagorno-Karabakh’s claim for self-determination under the UN charter. Azerbaijan’s continuing attempt now at ethnic cleansing involves violations of international law, including targeting civilians with tanks, helicopters, heavy artillery, multiple-launch rocket systems, including Smerch, and cluster bombs. What are Her Majesty’s Government doing to more actively promote an urgent ceasefire?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the noble Baroness’s work in this area; I know that her charity HART does a lot of work in Nagorno-Karabakh. We are taking an active role in this as best we can. We are working with a number of our like-minded partners within the OSCE, as I mentioned, and we are working within the UN Security Council and NATO to try to bring about a de-escalation. On sovereignty, the UK supports the sovereignty, territorial integrity and independence of Azerbaijan, while underlining the importance of the UN and OSCE principles. We support the OSCE Minsk Group process and the basic principles that sit beneath it, including a return of the occupied territories and the acceptance of the free expression of will on the status of Nagorno-Karabakh.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I want to return briefly to my noble friend Lady Ramsay’s point about the vacuum that has been created. We have all the statements in the world saying, “Stop this war”, but we had a process—the Minsk process—we had talks, and we even had a framework agreement. What is the noble Baroness doing to ensure the United States returns all its efforts back to that process so that that vacuum is not filled by other players in the region?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we support the role that the US is playing in the Minsk process; I mentioned before the strong statements from the President and the Secretary of State on this issue. We believe that the Minsk process is the best way to bring about an end to this conflict. The role of that group is to facilitate the negotiations—as I said, it has proposed a set of basic principles—but it is for the parties themselves to negotiate a peace agreement. We recognise that that must involve compromise and hard choices, but there is no military solution. We need the parties to return to the negotiation table, with the help of the co-chairs—the US, France and Moscow—and we believe that that is the best way to bring about an end to this conflict.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, would the Minister agree that this is a conflict which has a long history, where everybody blames everybody else and everybody blames the backers of their enemy? Could the Government put as much pressure on as possible to allow journalists in, so that the rest of the world knows what is going on? We could do without propaganda from both sides clogging our view.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that the roots of this conflict are complex and predate the collapse of the Soviet Union. Apportioning blame is not the solution. I also completely agree about the importance of media freedom. We are concerned about disinformation in this conflict, and we are concerned about reports of lack of access to the internet. We will do all we can to facilitate access to the region so that we can understand what is happening.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, notwithstanding what the noble Baroness has just said about lessons from the past, has she considered, as I was asked to do while visiting Nagorno-Karabakh, how the indigenous, overwhelmingly Armenian community see this violence as an extension of the Armenian genocide, which claimed 1.5 million lives with international indifference leading to Hitler’s infamous remark, “Who now remembers the Armenians?” In the light of the current attacks on civilians, will we be joining Canada in suspending arms export permits to Turkey? Will we press, as my noble friend Lady Cox called for, for the prosecution of those responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity in Karabakh?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we continue to monitor developments in the region closely. We consider all our export applications against a strict assessment framework. We will keep all licences under careful and continual review. We comply with the OSCE arms embargo relating to the Nagorno-Karabakh region, which is considered as part of our export licensing process, and we will continue to work closely with Canada. We have issued a number of join statements with Canada, and we will work closely with all like-minded parties to bring an end to this conflict.

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, much mention has been made of the Minsk talks, which are now over 25 years old and are about the possibilities of bringing peace—but are without any outcome that we can appreciate—and of various other bodies that have been in conversation with our Government about ways forward at this crucial stage. Azerbaijan and Armenia are both member states of the Council of Europe, as indeed are Turkey and Russia, with the United States on the sidelines as an observer. Would this not be a forum through which, especially with its focus on human rights, we could stimulate a more broadly based response to the present crisis—particularly, perhaps, focusing on the civilian losses, which have been widely reported—in order to get a new sense of purpose in what is a very long-standing dispute?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

I acknowledge the noble Lord’s point on the length of this conflict, and of course we must use every avenue we have to try to bring about an end to the conflict. We continue to urge dialogue and we are clear that the only lasting solution to the conflict can be a negotiated one, but I will certainly take the noble Lord’s point on the Council of Europe back to the department to see if there is yet further we can do within that organisation.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, the time allotted for this Question has elapsed and we have come to the end of Question Time.

Nagorno-Karabakh

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Wednesday 30th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of violence in the Nagorno-Karabakh region; and what representations they have made to the governments of Armenia and Azerbaijan about that violence.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK is deeply concerned by the conflict along the line of contact in the Nagorno-Karabakh region, especially by the reports of civilians being targeted. The Minister for European Neighbourhood spoke to the Azerbaijani Foreign Minister, Mr Bayramov, and the Armenian Foreign Minister, Mr Mnatsakanyan, on 28 September. Our message has been clear: we are calling for a ceasefire, an end to the hostilities and a return to the negotiation table.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, since the 1994 ceasefire, we have had the OSCE Minsk Group—headed by France, Russia and the US—and a framework agreement was established. Yesterday, I spoke to Matthew Bryza, the US ambassador who led the framework talks. He felt that the United States had pulled back from mediation efforts. What has the UK done to encourage the US Administration to renew their efforts as part of the Minsk Group, and what have we done within NATO to seek the de-escalation of tensions in the region?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

As the noble Lord says, the US co-chairs the Minsk Group. It continues to engage directly with Armenia and Azerbaijan as part of that role. It also issued a joint statement on 27 September, condemning the use of force and calling for a return to negotiations. From the UK perspective, we will continue to work with the US, including through the OSCE and at the UN Security Council. On NATO, both Armenia and Azerbaijan play an important role in the Partnership for Peace, which works to create trust and peace.

[Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that this long-expected war in the Caucasus is a danger for a wider conflagration that is complicated by Russia and Turkey supporting different sides and the attentions of the US elsewhere just now? Will the Government do more than make their usual statements and calling in ambassadors, and work actively as a high priority with like-minded countries to achieve an immediate ceasefire to avert a widening conflict?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we continue to urge all parties to avoid external interference and rhetoric, which may of course exacerbate the situation in the wider region. We continue to work with our allies in the Security Council, where yesterday a meeting was held at which members voiced support for the call by the Secretary-General to stop the fighting immediately and expressed their full support for the central role of the Minsk Group.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

Are the Government aware of reports that a Turkish security company has been recruiting Syrian fighters from Idlib to fight in Azerbaijan? Does the Minister see this as a very dangerous development?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we are not able to confirm the media reporting of the recruitment of Syrian troops. We remain concerned about the recent ceasefire violations and of course deeply regret the loss of life. We will continue to monitor the situation closely.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con) [V]]

My Lords, do the Government consider that Russia’s co-chairmanship of the Minsk Group peace process conflicts with its geopolitical interests in Armenia, including its basing of armed forces there and its supply of hydrocarbons to the country?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, Russia of course has long historical links with both Armenia and Azerbaijan. We do not consider that the co-chairmanship of the Minsk Group conflicts with its political interests. A peaceful settlement to the conflict should be in Russia’s interest and we continue to support the Russians in their role as co-chairs.

[Lord Crisp (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I know from Armenian friends how tragic this is and I understand the potential for this conflict to increase regional instability, and I am therefore pleased with the steps that the Government are taking. However, what discussions have Her Majesty’s Government had with the Turkish Government and what pressure do they believe that our Government and the international community can bring to bear to prevent Turkey’s further intervention in this conflict?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

The noble Lord rightly highlights the situation in which many civilians find themselves in this conflict, which is why we are keen to do everything we can to de-escalate it. On relations with Turkey, on 28 September, the Prime Minister spoke to President Erdoğan. They agreed on the importance of a return to dialogue. As I have said, we will do all that we can to urge the parties to avoid any external interference.

[Baroness Goudie (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, war crimes do not justify further war crimes. The talks have been going on since the early 1990s, so is it not time that we had a new round of peace talks with the parties? I call on the British Government to be one of those leading parties at a round table with NATO and with women from the locality who are on the ground. There can be no peace without women. It is really important that we start the talks afresh.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, I agree completely with the noble Baroness on the importance of including women in the peace talks. As she will know, when women are involved, we see longer-lasting peace. The international community is fully behind the Minsk process, which we think is the correct mechanism to bring the parties to the table and to see some progress on this.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware of the allegations that an Armenian aircraft, an Su-25, has been shot down by a Turkish F16 aircraft? Will the Government undertake to investigate whether these allegations are well founded?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we are aware of the media reporting and are urgently looking into the situation. I am afraid that I have no further information on that allegation at this time, but these are incredibly worrying reports which underline the desperate need for de-escalation.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans [V]]

Does the Minister agree with the interventions made by Pope Francis and the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury that call on all parties in the conflict to take concrete steps to resolve this latest clash? Specifically, have Her Majesty’s Government offered to be part of that mediating process? I ask this because we need to find new partners who can offer that mediation if we are to find a way through after so many years of deadlock.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we support calls from all the parties to help to de-escalate this process. We are working very closely within the OSCE to support the Minsk Group process and we will continue to do so.

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the Government’s calls for de-escalation. As my noble friend is aware, Nagorno-Karabakh is a part of Azerbaijan as recognised by international law. What representations have been made by our ambassador at the United Nations in relation to UN meetings as well as bilateral meetings between our ambassador, the Azeri ambassador and the Armenian ambassador?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, the UK supports the sovereignty, territorial integrity and independence of Azerbaijan while underlining the importance of the UN and OSCE principles that govern relations between member states. We also support the OSCE Minsk Group process and the basic principle that sits beneath it, which includes a return of the occupied territories and the acceptance of a free expression of will on the status of Nagorno-Karabakh. A meeting was held yesterday of the Security Council, where our representative expressed concern about the reports of large-scale military actions and underlined our full support for the central role of the Minsk Group co-chairs. We continue to engage diplomatically in the UK with the Minister for the European Neighbourhood, and in both countries.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB) [V]]

Given the fact that it was Russia that brought about an end to the war in 1994 and brokered a truce in 2016, what representations have Her Majesty’s Government made to the Russians, and in particular asking them to put pressure on Turkey to stop siphoning Syrian mercenaries into Nagorno-Karabakh?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble and right reverend Lord highlights, the Russians have a key part to play in bringing about peace in their role as co-chair of the Minsk Group and we continue to work with them at the OSCE.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)]

My Lords, the OSCE was created to help to ensure stability and peace across the European continent following the end of the Cold War, yet today we have frozen conflicts in Georgia and Moldova, the annexation of part of Ukraine, the continuing problems in Belarus and now a resurgence of violence between Armenia and Azerbaijan. What can be done to reform the OSCE to make it more relevant to the 21st century and ensure that it is much more effective in dealing with these situations?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

As the noble Lord will know well, the conflicts and issues that he has raised are incredibly complex and very different in their nature and history; there is no easy answer to them. The UK fully supports efforts under the OSCE to find peaceful and lasting solutions to these issues and we will continue to work with the organisation to make sure that it becomes ever more effective.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, all the supplementary questions have been asked.

Belarus: Presidential Elections

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Friday 25th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister and the Foreign Secretary for this very clear Statement. The Foreign Secretary is right to state unequivocally that the elections in Belarus were not free or fair. I am very glad that we are taking action as a result. These Benches also give the Government our full support.

It is appalling to see the violence, the imprisonment and expulsion of opposition candidates and the arbitrary arrests of their supporters. I also note what the Foreign Secretary said about the targeting of the press, including the BBC, and of our own embassy staff.

It is remarkable to see that, week after week, despite the crackdowns we have seen, the people in Belarus are marching to make their point despite the personal risks to them. The women in Belarus have been astonishingly brave, stepping into leadership roles despite the risks to their safety and that of their families.

I welcome the fact that we are preparing Magnitsky sanctions against those who are responsible for these serious human rights violations and that we are co-ordinating with the United States and Canada on this. I am also glad that we are working closely with our EU neighbours as well.

The noble Baroness will know that I regret the fact that we are outside the EU and that we and our able diplomats cannot engage on this from the inside, because this is precisely the kind of situation where the UK has in the past had a disproportionate effect as a member. Now we have to influence from the outside. We make it more difficult for like-minded countries in the EU to persuade Cyprus, for example, as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that what is required here is a laser focus on Belarus and not on other issues, however important they may be for regional stability in the Mediterranean.

Coming back to the sanctions, the Foreign Secretary refers to the appalling abuse of women and notes that UN human rights experts have reported that female protesters have been threatened with violence, including rape. As the Government draw up the sanctions, will they work with their allies to make sure that the abuse of women is fully recognised as the human rights violation that it is? It took a long time to recognise rape as a war crime, but it is, and we know how sexual abuse is deliberately used to undermine opposition. Can the noble Baroness assure me that violence against women will be fully taken into account as these sanctions are drawn up?

Like the noble Lord, Lord Collins, I will ask about progress on extending the Magnitsky sanctions to cover corruption, as planned. I am very glad that they have this under active development. When does she think the Government will be ready to announce their plans?

In terms of financial wrongdoing, London and the banks here have negatively been in the news over recent days. It is clearly vital that fraud, corruption and money laundering are pursued. Even if this were not the right thing to do, it would be vital if London is to retain its key position as a leading financial market post Brexit. The sooner the Government explicitly back-track on their plan to break international law, the better it will be going forward. I am well aware that countries look to engage, for example, on the London Stock Exchange because this country is seen as a beacon for the rule of law. That needs to be strengthened, not weakened. What checks are being made on corrupt resources from Belarus going through London? Also, is there any equipment originating in the UK, for example for crowd control, that ends up in Belarus? Are we carefully scrutinising that?

The press has been under attack and the BBC has been targeted. I am very glad the Foreign Secretary is supporting the BBC. In this context, will the Minister’s new department properly value the BBC World Service? It is vital for the free press as an unbiased source of news that helps to underpin human rights and liberal democracy around the world.

Lastly, we are all holding our breath as to what Putin may do and what the consequences of that might be for the people in Belarus and the region. I note that the Government are actively engaging with the Government of Lithuania. The Baltic states are particularly vulnerable not just to what is happening on their border with Belarus but to Russia’s actions in terms of trade, for example, and how that might be throttled. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful for the full support of the noble Lord and the noble Baroness. It is a powerful statement of solidarity for the people of Belarus. Like both of them, I am appalled at the arbitrary detention and abuse of protesters that we have seen.

The noble Lord highlights the importance of international co-operation. The UK is working very closely in the OSCE and the UN Security Council and with our Five Eyes partners and our European allies to make sure that we have a common approach. He also asked about sanctions. As the Foreign Secretary said yesterday in the other place, we will join the EU in adopting targeted sanctions against those responsible for violence, repression and vote-rigging in Belarus—although, as the noble Lord highlighted, the EU process has been delayed. Given that delay and Lukashenko’s fraudulent inauguration, the Foreign Secretary has directed the FCDO sanction team to prepare Magnitsky sanctions for those responsible, and we are co-ordinating very closely with the US and Canada to prepare appropriate listings as a matter of urgency.

The noble Lord and the noble Baroness asked about corruption. As they highlighted, corruption is not currently covered by the Magnitsky sanctions; they deal with a slew of the most serious human rights violations and cover those who profit from human rights abuses, but the Foreign Secretary is looking very carefully at how we can extend the next step of the Magnitsky sanctions to corruption and similar types of offences. He will say more on that in due course, but I am afraid I do not have a date at the moment.

The noble Lord highlighted our close working with the French and the Germans. The UK hosted an E3 meeting recently where we discussed this important matter and the imposition of sanctions. When the Foreign Secretary was in the US last week, he discussed the matter with Secretary of State Pompeo.

The noble Lord spoke about the trade unions and highlighted the Foreign Secretary’s words about them yesterday in the other place. The trade union movement has been closely aligned with the human rights movement and the cause of liberty for many years. We have doubled our support for civil society organisations and are working closely in Belarus with people on the ground to decide exactly how best to distribute that money, including with academics, trade unions and civil society.

Like the noble Baroness, I pay tribute to the brave women who have played such a prominent role in the opposition to Lukashenko’s fraudulent election. They have led an incredibly effective and unified opposition campaign in really trying circumstances. There have been first-hand accounts, witness reports and statements by the UN OHCHR stating that women have been detained and subject to beatings and the threat of rape. That is never acceptable. Of course we will recognise the abuse of women as we prepare our sanctions and will continue to lead the way with our work on preventing sexual violence in conflict. We are very pleased to be co-hosting the action coalition on gender-based violence for the following year, where we will do more work on this.

The noble Baroness also highlighted the importance of cracking down on illegal finance activities. Of course, criminals, from Belarus and elsewhere, should not be able to profit from their illegal activities in any circumstances. Banks should be, and have been, taking steps to ensure that this is not happening on their watch. The UK is internationally recognised as having one of the strongest systems to tackle money laundering and terrorist financing and to bring justice to those who seek to use or hide the proceeds of crime, as found by the Financial Action Task Force. We will continue to crack down hard on dirty money through our world-leading legislation, unexplained wealth orders and the measures in our economic crime and asset recovery plans.

The noble Baroness also asked about exports to Belarus. The UK currently implements EU sanctions on Belarus, which include an arms embargo and the ban on exporting equipment which might be used for internal repression. We will continue to observe those restrictions through our autonomous Belarus sanctions regime after the transition period has ended. The noble Baroness also highlighted the importance of media freedom; as she will know, the FCDO supports the BBC World Service. I agree with her that it does incredibly important work, both to ensure fair reporting and to support other independent journalists who are having such a difficult time in Belarus at the moment.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con)]

My Lords, we now come to the 20 minutes allocated for Back-Bench questions. I ask that questions and answers be brief so that I can call the maximum number of speakers.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

My Lords, in welcoming this important Statement of support for the people of Belarus and help for those who have been targeted by their Government’s attack on media freedom, I first ask my noble friend whether that help will also cover members of the arts and culture community who have been affected. Secondly, do the Government plan to appoint another UK special envoy on media freedom now that Amal Clooney has resigned?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for her question. On her second question, we are currently reviewing the position of the special envoy on media freedom. In the meantime, of course, the UK remains fully committed to supporting media freedom and standing up for the rights of journalists. On her first question, as I said, we are currently considering how best to support all members of society protesting in Belarus at the moment. I agree with her that we need to make sure that we continue to see free arts and culture, which is such an important part of society.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I commend the Government and the Foreign Secretary for finally further embracing the principles of the Magnitsky Act, and I support using them to the letter in the case of Belarus. These personal sanctions are surprisingly effective—witness the fury that they engender in Russia—and are really one of the few weapons we have when tyrannical regimes use nefarious means to gain and consolidate power. I would urge an even greater use of them. Having said that, I believe passionately in keeping open cultural corridors as a means of dialogue, and this is where the BBC World Service plays a vital role. However, I concede that a dreadful situation such as that in Belarus overwhelms and transcends soft politics, which is why we need to use hard means such as Magnitsky.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his support. The Magnitsky regime, as he will know, is relatively new. As I said, we are looking at what more we can do to strengthen it, and there will be further developments on that in due course. I also agree with the noble Lord on the importance of keeping up cultural relationships with countries all around the world, and we will continue to support the BBC World Service and other cultural organisations.

[Baroness Goudie (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I very much welcome the Government’s Statement. Belarus is the only country in Europe not to be part of the European Convention on Human Rights. The United Kingdom would become the second if we were to move on to the second round of Brexit, and it would cease to be a full party to the convention, as many Conservatives wish. I do hope that this will be reconsidered.

As many colleagues have said, Belarus is the only country in the world where the President is inaugurated in secret, and he is very close to his ally, President Putin. I hope that we will consider the whole question of how women are being treated in Belarus, with sexual violence, imprisonment and having other rights taken away, because the women are leading this campaign, and it is vital that they are given support.

Belarus has had arrests on a huge scale. The United Kingdom must go beyond recognising the Belarusian regime—we must review our relationship at every level, and we must pursue sanctions; otherwise, our credibility will be at stake. We must demonstrate solidarity continually with everyone, including those in the trade union movement. I end where I began: human rights are the heart of this matter.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness rightly highlights many of the reasons why the people of Belarus continue to protest for a better future. She mentioned the European Convention on Human Rights; we are committed to that and to protecting and championing human rights at home and abroad. I hope the noble Baroness is reassured that we are pursuing sanctions, and we will continue to demonstrate solidarity with the brave protesters. I spoke to our ambassador this morning, who talked me through all the different ways she is supporting the protesters: both laying wreaths and hosting some of the protesters at the embassy to give them a safe space to talk. Also, UK diplomats have attended the trials of political opponents and independent journalists to show solidarity. I agree with the noble Baroness that human rights are at the heart of this matter.

[Lord Taylor of Goss Moor (LD) [V]]

I welcome the Minister’s support for the critical investment in the BBC World Service. That was good to hear. Will the Minister also comment on the intervention of President Putin in the affairs of Belarus—with the threat to introduce what are effectively forces into the equation, if requested—and make it clear that the UK would not leave such an intervention without response?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we are clear that foreign intervention here would be unacceptable. The international community must come together and help support a dialogue between the authorities in Belarus and its people. Russia has a role in supporting that, and we urge Russia to engage constructively.

[Lord Blencathra (Con)]

My Lords, last November I was privileged to lead the Council of Europe mission to Belarus to observe the parliamentary elections there. We found, as every previous mission had found, that there were fundamental deficiencies in election law which prevented free and fair elections. This Wednesday, I was appointed rapporteur for electoral law reform in Belarus. Does my noble friend the Minister agree with me that while many people are understandably calling for new and fresh elections, these will still not be free and fair until we sort out the fundamental deficiencies and all the wrongs in election law in Belarus?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

I very much welcome my noble friend’s appointment as the Council of Europe’s rapporteur, and thank him for his previous work observing parliamentary elections. My noble friend and the Council of Europe are doing incredibly important work in this area, and the Government support their efforts. I share his view that electoral reform is crucial for ensuring that the Belarusian people can exercise their voice through genuinely free and fair elections. Not only will our work with the OSCE investigation of vote-rigging and human rights abuses provide moral support, but its findings will provide practical support in making progress on this important work.

[Viscount Waverley (CB) [V]]

My Lords, this is a monstrous situation. The world must be rid of these thieves who rob citizens of their human rights. Our reputation, the reputation of democracy and what it stands for, and the effectiveness and future ability of official election monitoring are all dependent on it. Will the Minister, as a custodian of the rule of law and representing the UK as a Security Council member, commit to ensure that this despot stands aside?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, the UK has been consistent in its statements condemning the fraudulent elections and the violence by Belarusian authorities, and we called for a full investigation into the electoral human rights violations through the OSCE. The UK actually led the group which formally invoked the Moscow mechanism, which will trigger that independent investigation. I assure the noble Viscount that we will absolutely continue to stand up for the people of Belarus, in the Security Council, in the OSCE and at every opportunity we have.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, last night, I chaired a meeting of a number of people involved in a support committee for the Belarusian people. It was a group of lawyers and we were joined by leaders of the protest movement in Belarus and the leader of the human rights organisation there, Viasna. They strongly welcome the steps being taken by the United Kingdom. Our ambassador is a very important person in this, and has indicated that there should be support for civil society—that we in Britain should be supporting many of the organisations involved here: NGOs, independent journalists, trade unions and so on. Is resource being given to that end—to support civil society, because it is in difficulties? Will the sanctions regime that we have brought into being include sanctions against people close to the regime who have homes or resources in London, who are leading figures in the business community of Belarus, who are exporting, and so on? That is what the people of Belarus are calling for. Finally, children are being taken into state care as a way of punishing the women who are protesting. Something has to be said about the way that women are experiencing particular kinds of punishment, too.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

It is really good to hear the noble Baroness’s reflections from her meeting last night and her praise for our ambassador over there, who, as I said, is working incredibly hard to support political opponents and independent journalists. We are working in partnership to support civil society, including independent media and human rights organisations. We have announced the doubling of support for civil society organisations, providing an additional £1.5 million for human rights, independent media and community groups in Belarus over the next two years. The noble Baroness highlighted the appalling activity against minors. We know that some of the women involved in opposition have had to flee the country to protect their children. We are expanding our support for victims of gender-based violence to include support for women and children who have been exposed to violence through the protests, and co-ordinating with the Council of Europe, the International Red Cross and other organisations to make sure that they have the resources they need to respond to the medical, psychological and social needs resulting from those human rights abuses.

[Lord Jones of Cheltenham (LD) [V]]

Having been an observer of elections in a number of countries, I know how important a peaceful handover of power is when a Government loses an election. Will our Government do their best to ensure that all political leaders in Belarus understand this and, as we are working with our European partners and the USA on this difficult situation, will they make sure that Mr Trump understands that a peaceful handover applies to him too?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, of course we all want peace in Belarus, and we will continue in our efforts to bring that about. As I said, the Foreign Secretary was in Washington last week and discussed this with Mike Pompeo, and we will continue to support the calls for mediation and do everything we can to ensure that the people of Belarus are able to be represented in a free and fair way.

[Lord Mackay of Clashfern (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I very much support all that has been said on this matter by your Lordships. I was particularly interested in the account of the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, of her meeting last night. I wonder whether there is any possibility of court action in Belarus itself which could attack the nature of the election under which the present President seeks to hold on to his office.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, in addition to the civil society groups I mentioned, we are also speaking to lawyers in Belarus and ensuring that any measures we can take are followed through. We will continue those conversations with, and giving support to, that legal community.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I refer to my entry in the register of interests, specifically my role in the European Leadership Network. Since the crisis began, the ELN has twice convened a confidential dialogue on Belarus involving leading experts from 13 OSCE participating states, including Belarus itself, the United States, Russia and the Baltic states. Among diverse views, we found unanimous agreement on the importance of addressing the risks posed by the recent increase in the frequency, duration and proximity of military exercises undertaken by Russia, Belarus and NATO in the region, which could lead to an accident or miscalculation that proves the spark to a more serious confrontation. While I welcome the Statement, it is silent on regional security. Do the Government share that concern and agree that it is critical that we avoid that development at all costs?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, of course we want regional stability, and we are working closely with all our partners. The Foreign Secretary recently spoke to the Foreign Secretary of Lithuania, and we will continue to support both Belarus and its neighbours to see the regional peace we all want.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

Forty years ago this month, the people of Poland were the first to break apart the Soviet communist empire, and Belarus remains one of the last vestiges remaining. When they did, the people of this country, the Government of this country and the TUC in this country led the way with practical and political support. Would it not be appropriate this time that the same organisations, and the Government backed by Parliament, led the way in the UN, the OSCE and elsewhere with practical, political and pragmatic support?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

I completely agree with the noble Lord, and I would argue that we are leading the way with practical and political support. We led the way at the OSCE, bringing together countries to invoke the Moscow mechanism. We are supporting practically, with civil society organisations, and we will absolutely continue to do so.

[Lord Pickles (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I return to the point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, about our support for NGOs and civic society. Like many noble Lords, I have seen difficult issues in Belarus—sometimes difficult and controversial historical issues—addressed by those organisations. They play an enormously important part in ensuring that the truth is confronted and recognised. I urge my noble friend to keep under constant review the support, both financial and moral, that we give to those organisations.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for highlighting the importance of that support, both moral and financial, and reassure him that we will absolutely continue, both on the ground in Belarus and from here in the UK. We must make sure that the opposition and civil society organisations have that support and, importantly, the media organisations, which are doing so much excellent work to counter disinformation. UK funding is going to provide training and support for those journalists and other media workers detained by the authorities and to help replace destroyed and confiscated equipment so that people can see the truth of what is happening.

[Lord Bowness (Con) [V]]

I declare my interest as a vice-president of the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly. My noble friend says that the Moscow mechanism has been triggered, but can she indicate whether the experts appointed to investigate matters will be allowed entry into Belarus, or will they try to conduct the investigation from outside the country? On a happier note, this week, the parliamentary assembly held a virtual meeting with Svetlana Tikhanovskaya and the head of the Belarusian delegation, a supporter of President Lukashenko. After initial recriminations about the past, there was a hint of willingness to talk about the future. Will my noble friend confirm that the Government will support all OSCE efforts to secure an initial dialogue without conditions to seek a way forward to meaningful and binding negotiations between government and opposition parties?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we do not yet know whether the OSCE investigation will be able to access Belarus. We very much hope that it will, in order to be able to fulfil its independent investigation. The UN rapporteur has not been allowed access to the country, but we hope that they will be allowed access and will report back soon. My noble friend highlights the importance of parliamentary support, and I pay tribute to his and others’ work, which shows such good solidarity with the people of Belarus. I share his desire to see a binding and meaningful dialogue, and we will do all we can to help bring that about.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con)]

My Lords, all questions have now been asked and answered.

Aid Impact

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Thursday 3rd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sheehan]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the quality of the work carried out by the Independent Commission for Aid Impact in the scrutiny of (1) the effectiveness, and (2) the value for money, of United Kingdom aid.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government highly value the Independent Commission for Aid Impact’s scrutiny of UK aid and have assessed its quality in two reviews since its establishment in 2011. The last tailored review in 2017 found that ICAI’s work continued to be both necessary and important. Since its inception, the commission has contributed to improving the impact and value for money of UK aid.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. The retention of ICAI, at least in the short term, is welcome. Inevitably, however, the merger of two departments will see much jockeying for ideas. Therefore, first, does the Minister accept that it is important that ICAI’s remit is not curtailed but, instead, bolstered to ensure that transparent scrutiny is maintained and that effective and accountable aid will be the hallmark of the new FCDO? Secondly, can she tell us to whom ICAI will report?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we are committed to more effective and accountable aid spending under the new Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, and of course that includes transparency and external scrutiny. We will reinforce that external scrutiny by not just maintaining ICAI but strengthening its focus on the impact of our aid and the value that it adds to our policy agenda.

[Baroness Blackstone (Ind Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that it is very disappointing that the Independent Commission for Aid Impact rated the UK’s progress on international climate finance as inadequate? How do the Government intend to rectify this, given the urgency of much more progress before the UK hosts COP 26 next year?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we are committed to increasing and improving our work on climate. We are doubling our funding to the International Climate Fund and, as the noble Baroness says, we are hosting COP. We are also absolutely committed to making sure that that funding is spent effectively.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome the Government’s decision on ICAI. I worked with Andrew Mitchell on its establishment and the set-up agreed then has proved successful. ICAI is subject to confirmatory hearings by the International Development Committee and, through the committee, reports its programme and findings. This needs to be maintained if the UK’s global reputation is not to be risked. Therefore, I urge the Government to support a dedicated Commons Select Committee to monitor ICAI and UK aid, and to maintain the credibility of the great work that has been done to date.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for welcoming the commitment to keep ICAI. On the Select Committee point, the Government agree that Parliament has an important role in scrutinising UK aid spending, and Select Committees are of course fundamental in scrutinising the Government’s spending and policies. We acknowledge that, as a consequence of the merger, the House of Commons might have to reconfigure the Select Committee structure, but the Government’s view is that normally the committee structure mirrors the departmental structure.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the independent commission clearly does a good and much-needed job in evaluating aid flows, but does my noble friend agree that it has been particularly useful in bringing home the fact that aid alone is not an effective driver of development or indeed of poverty reduction, and that issues such as counterterrorism, security, human rights breaches, private investment conditions and, obviously, good governance under the law are just as much part of the modern development package? Does she further agree that the proposed merger between our aid and foreign policy departments, about which I think we are going to hear a Statement later today, offers a highly effective and rational way of bringing these essential modern-day strands of development closer together?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My noble friend is right that my noble friend Lord Ahmad will be repeating a Statement later today. The advantages that my noble friend highlights are exactly the reason why the Prime Minister has merged DfID and the FCO to become the new FCDO. My noble friend is right that aid alone is not going to resolve many of the world’s problems. We need to make sure that we are taking a joined-up approach and bringing the strands of foreign policy, development and trade together in order to tackle these huge global challenges.

[Lord Loomba (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the Government have confirmed that the Independent Commission for Aid Impact will continue to scrutinise all aid spending across all government departments. However, I am concerned that with the forthcoming review of its remit, and in the light of reports that the aid budget will be reduced, how will the commission ensure its independence and maintain its primary purpose?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, the review will consider how ICAI can improve the impact of aid spending across government and challenge the big decisions around aid spending so that it can provide robust and evidence-based recommendations. It will continue to follow overseas development assistance across all departments. I take this opportunity to reiterate the point that I made yesterday: the Government are committed to spending 0.7% of our gross national income on international development.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

I call the noble Lord, Lord Collins of Highbury.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister rightly argues that transparency and accountability are vital. The Government have said that it will be up to the Commons to decide whether there is an International Development Select Committee, which precedes the creation of a separate department. If a Motion is tabled to abolish that, will the Government be giving those on the government payroll and on the Back Benches a free vote, or will they be advised which way to vote?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we will reflect carefully on the recommendations of the IDC and the Liaison Committee before bringing forward Motions to change existing the committee structures for the House to agree later this year.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

Is the noble Lord, Lord Collins of Highbury, in a position to participate? If not, we will move on to the noble Baroness, Lady Falkner of Margravine.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I welcome the review. It is extremely timely, given the merger of the two departments. However, can the Minister confirm that the resources of ICAI will be strengthened? Surely three commissioners and a very small secretariat are not sufficient to provide the resources that the budget demands to provide assurance to Parliament and the public.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, that is certainly one of the issues that the review will look at. The terms of reference will be published on GOV.UK in due course. We are keeping ICAI because we welcome independent scrutiny, and we are committed to ensuring that it continues to give us robust and constructive criticism.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

I call the noble Baroness, Lady Cox. No? I call the noble Baroness, Lady Goudie.

[Baroness Goudie (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome the review. I very much hope that as part of it, unlike what has happened previously, the gender and disability lenses are looked at along with culture, and that there is respect for all countries in the projects that we are working on. I feel that this is very important. Further, I know this is not quite right, but there is spending in Scotland and Wales on development, and maybe we could include this in some way as an exception.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, ICAI’s reports have led to much substantive action in key areas, including the use of data and the preparation of results, as well as helping us to mainstream our policies on gender, making sure that all our policies are inclusive and that we reach the poorest and leave no one behind. We will encourage ICAI to continue to assist us on those measures. I also take the opportunity to reiterate the point that advancing gender equality and women’s rights are of course a core part of the new Government’s mission.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

Lord Collins of Highbury? The noble Baroness, Lady Cox, is with us.

[Baroness Cox (CB) [V]]

Is the Minister aware that the recent report by the All-Party Parliamentary Group for International Freedom of Religion or Belief, which I co-chair, highlights urgent concerns about British aid to Nigeria, especially the refusal of aid to the Middle Belt states, which are among the areas worst affected by Islamist killings, abductions, atrocities and the displacement of thousands of civilians? Will the Minister ensure a more rigorous and effective use of British aid, including food, medical care and shelter, for Nigeria’s Middle Belt states?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, I am of course aware of the report that the noble Baroness refers to, and we are looking at it very carefully. We all want to ensure that our aid is spent effectively and in a way that gives value for money but that it also really helps the people that it is designed to help. That is something that ICAI helps the department to do.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

I make one last call for the noble Lord, Lord Collins of Highbury. If he is not responding, all supplementary questions have been asked and we will move to the next Question.

Aid Spending

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sheehan]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the establishment of the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, what plans they have to maintain the requirement to spend 0.7 per cent of Gross National Income on aid.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, the commitment to spending 0.7% of our national income on aid is a manifesto commitment and is enshrined in law. As the PM has made clear, the new Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office will maximise the impact of our aid budget to help the world’s poorest, while making sure that we get the best value for money for the UK taxpayer.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, in an article in this week’s Sunday Times on the Chancellor’s possible tax rises was this line:

“Treasury officials are also examining ways of siphoning cash from the foreign aid budget.”


Given that £2.9 billion has already been cut from UK aid this year, going further would mean repealing legislation. From the same article was this quote:

“A source said: ‘Foreign aid is being looked at as well’.”


Quite simply, can the Minister say whether such media reports over the last few days are wishful thinking within elements of her party, or is it a precursor to yet another government U-turn, this time on a Conservative manifesto commitment?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, rather than focusing on unattributable media reports, I point the noble Baroness to No. 10’s confirmation yesterday that there is no change to the Government’s commitment to maintaining a 0.7% aid target. Also, the Foreign and Development Secretary today confirmed that we will continue to spend 0.7%. That is written into the law. The Prime Minister has said that we want aid capacity and development expertise; that is what we want to be the beating heart of the new department.

[Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean (Lab)]

My Lords, I have two questions. When will the first accounts for the new joint department be signed off, as they must be, by the FCO permanent secretary, and published? Secondly, on 19 June, 191 NGOs, think tanks and charities, all working on humanitarian assistance—including of course the current Covid problem—wrote to the Prime Minister protesting about this new arrangement. The doctors wrote, similarly, a couple of days later. All made the point that DfID is one of the most successful and respected aid departments anywhere in the world, and is recognised as such by everywhere else in the world. Has the Prime Minister answered those letters from the 191 NGOs and the doctors? They were written 10 weeks ago. If not, after almost 10 weeks, when will he reply?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, departmental accounts will be published in the usual way. I reassure the noble Baroness and, indeed, the NGOs to which she referred, that of course we are listening very closely to what they say to ensure that the new department is greater than the sum of its parts, and what we want it to be. We aim to use all the tools of our influence and expertise to continue our work and development. We are a world leader in international development, as the noble Baroness says, helping to end extreme poverty in developing countries around the world. We are absolutely committed to putting UK aid at the heart of what we do in the new department. We will continue with our 0.7% and will ensure that we continue the good work that we have seen from DfID in the new FCDO.

[Baroness Northover (LD) [V]]

Development is global and long term, which is usually different from the aims of other government departments. Given the headlines about raiding the development budget, including from the Treasury, exactly how will her department guard against this?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, as I hope I have made clear, we will continue our commitment to 0.7% in the new department, as was said in the Conservative Party manifesto on which we were elected, and we will proudly maintain that commitment. We must ensure that both our diplomacy and development work continues, as it has done in the two separate departments, within the new department. In our new department, we aim to pursue our national interests and project the UK as a force for good in the world, which includes safeguarding UK security, defending our values, reducing poverty and tackling the huge global challenges that we face.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, our overseas aid programme is under a triple threat: the questioning of the commitment to 0.7%; the reduced value of the 0.7% because of the post-Covid recession; and the subverting of aid spending into quite different areas, such as defence. Does the Minister accept that an effective aid programme is, in fact, firmly in the UK’s national interest and enhances our reputation globally? Will she reassure me that spending in areas where we are acknowledged world leaders, such as malaria—I declare my interest—which was also specifically mentioned in the Conservative Party manifesto, will be safeguarded going forward?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

I completely agree with the noble Baroness that our work in international development is firmly in the national interest and absolutely enhances our global reputation abroad. We have been a world leader in many things, including malaria. We need to focus, rightly, on the Covid-19 response, but we must not forget or reverse the significant gains that have been made over the years. We have many proud achievements on malaria, and the UK will continue to lead the way on eradicating malaria as part of our work on ending preventable deaths.

[Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne (Con)]

I welcome the Minister’s comprehensive replies and have a simple question for her. On the back of my views that the merger will add greatly to UK influence in global leadership, given that public health is central to all our thinking at the moment internationally, can the Minister reassure me that, from now on, we will use our contribution to the World Health Organization, where we are in fact the largest and most powerful contributor, to the greatest possible extent? That means perhaps not just contributing, but ensuring that the WHO has reorganisation in the centre, or whatever is needed, because it has lagged a little bit, which is why we have lost the United States. Will the Minister reassure me that she will do everything she can to make Britain more powerful in the World Health Organization dimension?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

As my noble friend says, we are a leading donor to the WHO. We have already pledged £75 million to help it to lead international efforts to stop the spread of the virus and then the pandemic. The UK has long been an advocate for reform in the WHO. We want to see the WHO continue to learn lessons on how to improve its response to global health emergencies. The new department will help us in this aim, bringing together our diplomatic engagement with the WHO and other bilateral donors, and also our development funding, for the first time.

[The Lord Bishop of Bristol]

My Lords, I have personally seen through the Anglican Communion’s worldwide partnerships the positive impact that the UK’s overseas aid has made to alleviating poverty. I share the concerns of other Peers about the reports of the Government’s intent to overturn the legal commitment to spend 0.7% of gross national income on aid. At the risk of tedium, I hope that the Minister will continue to give this House assurances that the Government have no such plans, which would reduce the UK’s impact under the UN sustainable development goals.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

I thank the right reverend Prelate for her question. Like her, I have seen at first hand the incredible work that church and faith groups do around the world. I assure her that we will continue to be guided by our responsibilities under the International Development Act, which of course includes a commitment to poverty reduction.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, as we have heard, there has already been a substantial reduction in real aid spending due to the contraction of our own economy. Where is the strategy? Which country programmes have been identified for closure and cuts? Does the Minister agree with the Prime Minister that we should be diverting aid from partners in countries such as Zambia and Tanzania? If so, why?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

As the noble Lord said, given the expected fall in gross national income this year, our commitments to aid spending have been reviewed across all departments. The strategy behind that was to ensure that there is continued support for the five priorities for overseas development assistance: the Bottom Billion support, poverty reduction, climate change, girls’ education and, of course, Covid-19. We want to ensure that Britain continues to play its role as a force for good in the world. That implementation is happening as we speak, and we are discussing that with suppliers. As usual, there will continue to be adjustments in year to individual departmental overspend to meet the 0.7% target, but we are absolutely focused on making sure that we continue to fund the priorities that I have outlined.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, is not the problem for the Minister that whatever she says in good faith is being undermined by persistent and detailed leaking, not least in today’s edition of the Times? The aid budget is a jewel in a very jaded foreign policy. Why should it be put at risk?

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that it should not be put at risk. It is not at risk. I point to the comments from No. 10, from the Foreign Secretary today and, indeed, from the Prime Minister when he made his announcement to Parliament on the merger. We should be incredibly proud of the changes that 0.7% has made and continues to make in people’s lives around the world, from girls’ education to eradicating wild polio in Africa. We continue to be proud of that and to be absolutely committed to carrying on the good work of 0.7% in the new FCDO.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) (V)]

My Lords, nothing, I suspect, could prick our collective conscience a moment more than the terrible suffering in Yemen. Can the Minister tell me how we are managing to extend some sort of help to the agencies working in that area?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, we continue to be incredibly concerned about the situation in Yemen. In fact, we have an announcement today, given the impact of Covid-19 heightening the risk of famine in countries from Sudan through to Yemen. We are providing an extra £190 million of famine relief. At the same time, in order to leverage our diplomatic network and bring countries together, we have appointed a new envoy for famine relief and we will continue to ensure that we are giving the support to the people of Yemen that they need.

[Baroness Chalker of Wallasey (Con)]

Can the Minister give us more assistance in developing public health training, because it is the lack of public health training in many of the countries concerned with Covid-19 that is putting them at even greater risk than they are already? Will she also discuss with the Foreign and Development Secretary the whole question of training officials from the two participating departments, perhaps with some help from those of us who have experienced working in both departments? That way we can show the diplomats exactly why foreign aid is so critical to what they do, and help the development specialists to understand the problems faced by the diplomats.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

As my noble friend said, it is incredibly important that we think carefully about how we spend our 0.7% budget. Of course, Covid-19 has changed our perception of what we should be doing. I agree with her that we need to invest more in health training and health systems in the developing world to make sure that they are strong enough to cope with this pandemic and any others that might come in the future. I also agree with my noble friend about the importance of sharing the expertise from DfID and the FCO with the new department. There will, of course, be learnings for everybody, and I would very much like to take her up on her offer of help on that, because I know that she has many years of experience in this. I am sure that the new department would benefit from that.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Government’s reassurance on the matter of 0.7% and I should mention my entry in the register of interests. However, I do not think that the announcement at the end of July of the cuts in the budget as a result of the contraction in the economy was a good start for transparency in the new department. To announce £2.9 billion of cuts without any detail or criteria was a significant problem, so I would like the Minister to give us some assurance, first, that there will be a detailed announcement about these cuts and, secondly, that the criteria used to make the cuts will be properly announced to Parliament in due course.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, the Foreign Secretary explained in letters to the Select Committees and placed in the Libraries of both Houses the priorities on how these decisions were made. We remain firmly committed to transparency in our aid spending. I hope noble Lords will welcome the announcement that we will continue in the Independent Commission for Aid Impact.

On the prioritisation decisions, at a minimum our DevTracker website is being updated at the end of every month. If, by the end of August, amended programmes and projects have been uploaded on to that, provisional international development statistics will be published in the usual way. Then, of course, the final international development statistics in autumn next year will include country-level data.

We do not know what the current GNI figure is, so this is an iterative process as we go, but we are absolutely determined to ensure that we are using the aid money that we have to deal with the many issues that the world faces.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Private Notice Question has now elapsed.