Oral Answers to Questions
Andrew Selous Excerpts(6 months ago)
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The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
I can tell my hon. Friend that the Church Commissioners are bringing forward substantial new amounts of housing across England, including affordable homes, in accordance with local planning policy in the areas concerned. Where the commissioners are able to, we also seek to go further— for example, through the use of rural exception sites to provide a higher proportion of affordable housing than the local plan requires.
Selaine Saxby
I thank my hon. Friend for his response, but given that affordable housing is such a concern across North Devon, can the Church do any more to assist?
Andrew Selous
I know what a great champion my hon. Friend is on this issue. Unfortunately, the Church Commissioners themselves do not have any land in North Devon that is being considered for housing at the moment, but I will put her in touch with the diocese of Exeter to see whether it has opportunities in its own land portfolio. As I said, I know what a big issue this is in North Devon, and how important it is for my hon. Friend, who has been working on it passionately, so we will do what we can to help.
Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
Andrew Selous
During an interregnum, a diocese will usually arrange for clergy in neighbouring parishes and across the local deanery to take services and to be available to support the church wardens and the parochial church council. It is important that those local volunteers are well supported during an interregnum, when they lack the visible and present leadership of a parish priest.
Kevin Foster
My hon. Friend will know that the combined parishes of St Paul’s and Christ Church serve a large part of Paignton but are currently in interregnum. As he outlined, during interregnums, lay ministers and church wardens have to step forward. What extra support does the Church make available to them when they do so?
Andrew Selous
It is typical of my hon. Friend to take this level of interest in his clergy and churches, as I know he does regularly. I can tell him that the diocese of Exeter has produced a guide to help church wardens and the parochial church council, and a duty of pastoral care is clearly owed to all those who keep the church going in the absence of a minister. The best help that Christ Church and St Paul’s, Paignton can receive is for that vacancy to be really well advertised. Having done a bit of research on that church, I can see that the new incumbent would inherit a dynamic worshipping congregation on the beautiful English riviera—I am pleased to be able to provide some free advertising for that tremendous opportunity. I hope that parish priests looking for an exciting new opportunity will be flocking to Christ Church and St Paul’s, Paignton to take up that one.
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)
Andrew Selous
The Church of England educates more than 1 million children in its 4,700 schools in England. My hon. Friend must be particularly proud of the fact that all Church of England schools in his constituency are currently rated “good” by Ofsted.
Martin Vickers
I recently visited three of the Church schools in my Cleethorpes constituency, and I was impressed by how they are influenced by their connections with the Church. The website of New Holland Church of England and Methodist Primary School says:
“As a church school, New Holland…seeks to live out the church’s philosophy of ‘Valuing all God’s children’ paying particular attention to our Christian Vision, ‘Looking forward with hope. Flourishing. Doing all the good we can’”
and staying true to
“our core Christian values”.
Does my hon. Friend agree that those words exemplify the values of Church schools and what they can bring to their local communities?
Andrew Selous
The fact that those three Church schools are rated “good”, including New Holland primary, which my hon. Friend has visited, shows that they provide not just excellent teaching, which is really appreciated by parents—such schools are generally oversubscribed—but a caring and nurturing environment, as he rightly says. That is well encapsulated by the values of New Holland primary school, which he read out just now. I am grateful to him for highlighting their excellent record, and I think that we all pass on our thanks to those schools.
Danny Kruger (Devizes) (Con)
Andrew Selous
Parish ministry is at the heart of all that the Church of England does. Between 2023 and 2025, the Church Commissioners are distributing £1.2 billion to support our mission and ministry. That is a 30% increase on the previous three-year period, and the lion’s share of that funding goes to dioceses to strengthen and grow local ministry in parishes and worshipping communities. In addition, the commissioners wish to maintain that level of funding over the next six years, which would mean £3.6 billion being distributed between 2023 and 2031.
Danny Kruger
I am grateful for that very encouraging information, and I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for the work he has done during this Parliament on behalf of the Church Commissioners. He has been unfailingly assiduous and courteous—almost holy—in the conduct of his work on behalf of the Church.
Does my hon. Friend share my concern about the forced amalgamation of parishes that many dioceses across the country are undertaking? Vibrant and viable local churches in dioceses such as Liverpool are being offered the invidious choice of either surrendering their autonomy to become part of new mega-parishes or giving up access to resources from the centre—resources that they themselves contribute to the centre. As my hon. Friend has said and implied, surely the whole value of the Church of England is in the local parish system, not in its regional bureaucracies. Can he tell the House how the Church of England will continue to ensure the integrity of our parish system?
Andrew Selous
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. He is right to highlight to the House that there are pressures in some areas, and he is also right to point out that the parish network across the whole of England—across every one of our constituencies in England—is extremely precious. We must do everything we can to preserve it, and I make that point at every opportunity. I know that many Members of Parliament, including my hon. Friend, also make that point regularly, and that message has been heard at the top of the Church, which is why we are putting the vast majority of our funding back down into parishes. Of course, we are also encouraging parishes to do what they can to raise money at the local level, but my hon. Friend’s point is absolutely right.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
The Church of England is already the biggest provider of academies in England, with 1,770 academies and 280 multi-academy trusts. Each diocese across England will have its own academisation plans. These schools include pupils of all faiths and none, and they are committed to serving the whole community.
Sir Desmond Swayne
There is a growing need for special education, particularly in the New Forest. What can the Church do to assist in my constituency?
Andrew Selous
I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend, who has had a long-standing interest in these and other Church matters. He is right in what he says because, with two thirds of special schools at or over capacity, the recent decision to allow faith education providers to run special schools will enable the Church of England to alleviate some of those pressures and give families more choice and opportunity in the New Forest as well as across the whole of England. I would say that our strong ethos of community care makes our schools well suited to providing a nurturing environment for all children with special educational needs.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)
Andrew Selous
The Church of England calls for the immediate release of the hostages in Gaza and an end to the fighting, which has caused the loss of so many lives and caused so much suffering to the Palestinians. The diocese of Jerusalem and the worldwide Anglican communion continue to support financially the al-Ahli Anglican Hospital in Gaza City, which, as I know from the diocese of Jerusalem synod last week, is still operating with the wonderful medics in it and is still providing care.
Rachael Maskell
I thank the hon. Member for his answer. Of course, while Parliament is not sitting we know that the horrendous situation in Gaza will continue, and it is really important that we put the focus on those institutions that can make interventions over the next few weeks. I therefore ask him: how is the Church of England using its soft power and leverage to bring peace and justice to the region, particularly to the people of Gaza?
Andrew Selous
I thank the hon. Lady for her very pertinent and important question. She will know that the Archbishop of Canterbury himself went out to the Holy Land just after 7 October. I can tell her that the Bishop of Chelmsford was there very recently and the Bishop of Suffolk is also a frequent visitor. The worldwide Anglican communion, as well as the Church of England, will absolutely continue to play its part in bringing peace and justice to this terrible conflict, which has gone on for far too long.
Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)
My hon. Friend will know that the diocese of Gloucester has been very supportive of those in need—whether asylum seekers, refugees or, indeed, the homeless and rough sleepers in our city of Gloucester. Will he therefore join me in congratulating it on the fact that the planning approval for its first modular housing in Gloucester—with six modular homes—should go through Gloucester City Council imminently, and that more will be coming soon to help people in need?
Mr Speaker
I think the question may also be about the help that Gloucester’s diocese has given to the people of Gaza.
Andrew Selous
I am very grateful to my hon. Friend, and he is right that—both in Gaza and Gloucester—there is absolutely the need for significant reconstruction. I know that he has been a long-term advocate of that in Gloucester, and I commend the work he has done with the Bishop of Gloucester. Of course, there will also be a massive need for reconstruction in Gaza, which we all want to see.
Oral Answers to Questions
Andrew Selous Excerpts(7 months, 1 week ago)
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Stuart Andrew
I reject that accusation. There are 62 proposals in the White Paper, half of which will be finalised as a result of the consultation or are complete. A further three consultations have ended, and we are now analysing those. The levy is a priority, because we want the funds to be directed where they are needed most, on the basis of evidence, and we are working at pace to ensure that happens. I also point out that it was this Government who introduced it.
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)
The Minister for Media, Tourism and Creative Industries (Julia Lopez)
High-quality affordable workspaces are essential to ensuring that we can retain our finest creative talent. The Government are committed to encouraging local authorities and property owners to make spaces available for cultural activities. Arts Council England is already supporting artists’ spaces through funding and brokering partnerships. The national portfolio boasts numerous workspaces that receive revenue funding, such as Spike Island and Yorkshire Artspace, which offer space for artists to create work and gallery space for exhibiting new work.
Andrew Selous
Leighton Buzzard, Dunstable and many other parts of my constituency are blessed with an abundance of artists, painters, sculptors and others, but they have very few places where they can create their work—they need more studio space and more workspaces —and even fewer places in which to exhibit. Providing such spaces should be essential—it aids economic activity, increases footfall and increases wellbeing—so how can we ensure that it is essential, as the Minister said, and not an afterthought? It really does matter.
Julia Lopez
I thank my hon. Friend for raising his concerns about the creative community in Leighton Buzzard—it sounds like a buzzing creative community. As I say, we support creative industries primarily through Arts Council England, which has initiatives that look at workspaces. I encourage organisations in his constituency and community to make applications for grants, because there are specific funds available.
Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
Although we do not yet have confirmed numbers of worshippers for this Easter just gone, our clergy report high attendance, among all ages, at services, which supports the post-pandemic trend of people returning to services on Easter day in person to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus.
Kevin Foster
The future of the Church is reliant on younger families attending and receiving the good news of the Holy Gospel. What assessment has the Church made of initiatives like the pupil chaplain scheme and regular “Messy Church” at All Saints Torre in achieving that?
Andrew Selous
I was delighted to learn about the pupil chaplain scheme that All Saints Torre is running with Torre Church of England Academy; I will bring it to the attention of the Church nationally. The Church of England has committed £40 million since 2022 to increase provision for children and young people across the country. I thank Father Paul Jones for his service at All Saints Babbacombe and his wife, Jackie, who has led a Rainbows group at the church for many years. Their important work, which includes inspiring the next generation, has been noted and appreciated.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
The report of the joint Archbishops’ Commission on Families and Households was enthusiastically received by the General Synod at its meeting in February. The Archbishops’ Council is now incorporating the report’s recommendations into the work programme.
Mr Hollobone
The key messages from the Archbishops’ Commission are unambiguous: families, relationships and love matter. The No. 1 action point from the commission is
“to maximise the protective effect of families”.
What steps is the Church of England taking to achieve that in Kettering and across the whole country?
Andrew Selous
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his interest in this important area. I can tell him that the commissioners have had meetings with Departments and with the children’s commissioner to work alongside Government to strengthen family relationships, parenting and marriage. The Church itself wants to play a more active role in this crucial area and is producing new resources to help parishes do so. I am sure he will know that, in his own constituency, St Andrew’s Church is already exemplifying much of this good work under the excellent leadership of the Reverend Tom Houston, who trained as a youth worker prior to ordination.
Sir Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
Same-sex couples are able to show love and be a good family as well, so why will the Church of England not recognise same-sex marriage?
Andrew Selous
The hon. Member will know that this is an issue with which the General Synod continues to be involved through the living in love and faith process. We are working through these issues and the Church will have heard very clearly what he has said, and I can assure him that that work is being taken forward.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
Andrew Selous
The Church of England believes that the foetus is a human life with the potential to develop, while recognising that there can be strictly limited conditions under which abortion may be morally preferable to any available alternative. The Church also believes that every possible support, especially by Church members, should be given to those who are pregnant and in difficult circumstances. The Church would support new clauses 15 and 34 and believes that, while women should not face criminalisation, anyone coercing a woman to have an abortion, or providing one beyond the legal limit, or supplying an abortion kit for a late-term use should be prosecuted.
Sir Desmond Swayne
I welcome the support for new clauses 15 and 34. I think the Second Church Estates Commissioner has given implicit opposition to the new clause in the name of the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson), but I am gobsmacked not to have had a clear statement on the criminality of terminating a pregnancy up to the moment of birth by whomsoever. Is the intention to drive us into the arms of Rome? Is he as gobsmacked as I am?
Andrew Selous
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his interest in these serious issues, which, given their importance, I am sure the House will want to treat sensitively. I will convey his comments to the leadership of the Church, but just to repeat: the Church is supporting the two-week reduction in the age of viability from 24 to 22 weeks, based on the latest available evidence that foetuses do survive from 22 weeks onwards. It is also supporting protection for Down’s syndrome children to make the case that abortion beyond the legal limit should not be acceptable for such children. The Church supports the continued prosecution of medical practitioners who assist with abortions beyond the legal limit.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
The Bishop of Southwark has raised this issue repeatedly in the other place over the past six months, and it remains an ongoing and very concerning issue. Only 15 days ago, an unlawful eviction was led by the Israeli police within the premises of the Armenian Patriarchate, with no court orders or permits presented.
Sir Edward Leigh
Those of us who are good friends of Israel need to call out the violent activities of the settler movement. The Armenian Christians have enjoyed the best part of 2,000 years in their part of the old city in tranquillity. The appalling incident on 3 April was led not just by thugs but by an Israeli officer called Assaf Harel. Frankly, there was downright intimidation and an attempt to force out Armenian Christians. The Christian population in the old city has declined from 25% a century ago to just 1%. Will the Church of England stand up for Christians in the old city?
Andrew Selous
I am extremely grateful to my right hon. Friend for his sustained interest in this really important issue. It would be an absolute tragedy if there were to be no Christians left in the Holy Land. The House will have heard the figures that he has just presented. The pressures facing the Armenian church exemplify those faced by other churches in Jerusalem and the west bank. The Armenian Patriarch of Jerusalem is one of the custodians of the Holy Land and overseers of the four quarters of the city. The Church of England is absolutely clear that the historic settlement and the status quo of Jerusalem need to be maintained. The lack of any call for restraint from the Israeli Government is escalating tensions in Jerusalem, and that remains a great concern.
Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)
Andrew Selous
When the Church Commissioners sell land, they seek to engage all those who are affected by a sale or development. The commissioners are not aware of any land that they own being for sale in North East Bedfordshire.
Richard Fuller
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his response. The word “engage” is interesting in this context. It is the case that there is a church in my constituency where there was local opposition to the sale of allotment land. Discussions were held initially with the diocese, and then at Church House in Westminster. My hon. Friend will be aware that in such discussions there is an imbalance of power, so can he assure me that there is adequate guidance to enable parishioners and local communities to combat effectively pressures to sell land where there is clearly local opposition?
Andrew Selous
I particularly agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of allotments, for which there is often a very long waiting list. The land at Henlow is owned by the diocese of St Albans, and I will ask the diocesan secretary to contact him. Of course, he can also speak to the Bishop of Bedford and the Bishop of St Albans, whom we both know well. Charity law places a fiduciary duty on organisations to gain best value from the sale of their assets. That may be an issue that my hon. Friend would want to raise with the relevant Government Minister, in the context of what is happening in his constituency.
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
Andrew Selous
The Church of England educates more than 1 million children in its 4,700 schools, which includes 40% of all primary schools in England. Church schools in Harrow East do incredible work, and among them is St John’s School in Stanmore, which has many children for whom English is not their first language and who are from disadvantaged backgrounds. That school achieves a reading progress score of 4.5 compared with the average score in the rest of the local authority of 1.1. That excellent achievement is to be warmly commended.
Bob Blackman
I am very proud of the fact that parents in Harrow East have the option of a Church education or the religious-ethos education of their choice. However, as we all know, the birth rate is dropping, as is the number of children who need primary places in Harrow. There is therefore a direct threat to the rolls at St John’s and other religious-based schools, which may become unviable. What action is the Church taking to enable young people, particularly those who have recently come to this country, who may be of a Christian faith but not necessarily of the Church of England faith, to identify with a Church school and get that sort of education?
Andrew Selous
It may surprise my hon. Friend and the House that there are some Church of England schools in which all the children are from other faiths. That is because Church schools are community schools and welcome all. I will draw his concerns about falling roll numbers both to the diocese of London and to the national education department of the Church of England. However, in my experience, parents have a pretty good nose for finding their way to a good school. The results at St John’s, about which I have just told the House, should help in this case.
Oral Answers to Questions
Andrew Selous Excerpts(9 months ago)
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Lucy Frazer
I am very proud that we have a free press, and I think it is really important that we repeal section 40 to ensure there is not a chilling effect on our reporting. Of course, since that was first proposed, we have had greater self-regulation, and I am sure the press will continue to ensure that they do their outstanding job in an appropriate fashion.
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)
Can we recognise pickleball as a national sport, and will the sport Minister come to the Dunstable Hunters pickleball club, where he will see men, women, grandparents and grandchildren having a wonderful time?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Stuart Andrew)
How can I possibly resist such an invitation? [Laughter.] People are laughing, but this is becoming a more and more popular sport. For me, anything that gets people active and enjoying sport can only be positive, so I am happy to come to see it in action.
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
Before I reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham, may I pass on my condolences, and I am sure those of the whole House, to the family and friends of Alan Wilson, the Bishop of Buckingham, who died suddenly last Saturday?
There is comprehensive advice to all parishes on the Church of England website about how to keep buildings secure, which we regularly update. All buildings used for religious worship are also eligible for the Home Office’s hate crime protection scheme.
Greg Smith
I join my hon. Friend in passing on my condolences to the family of the late Bishop of Buckingham.
Vicars tell me that theft from churches is a continuing problem in my constituency and that the insurance sector is now demanding that churches must be locked unless someone from the church is present inside. That clearly creates a big challenge for those wanting a moment of quiet prayer or reflection or to just enjoy the beauty of our historic churches. Can my hon. Friend tell me what the Church Commissioners are doing with the insurance sector to ensure that our churches can remain, while secure, open for quiet prayer and reflection?
Andrew Selous
I am sorry to learn of the experience in my hon. Friend’s constituency, and I can tell him that he is completely right about the importance of keeping churches open for those who want to come. The good news is that keeping churches open increases footfall, and that deters criminals. Locking up churches is a poor deterrent to thieves. I can also tell him that funding for roof alarms was provided by the diocese of Oxford back in 2019, when there was a spate of thefts from church roofs in his area. I encourage churches in his constituency to contact the diocese again to see whether that might be made available.
Bob Blackman
I thank my hon. Friend for his answers thus far. He will recall that I have previously asked at Church Commissioners questions about thefts from churches in my constituency and neighbouring constituencies, St John’s and St Andrew’s. At St Andrew’s, the theft took place during the mass, which is outrageous, to put it mildly. In my view, the Church Commissioners are not listening to the police’s advice and support. What needs to happen is for churches to get at least the same support and assistance from the police as other places of worship. Will he use his good offices to go back to the Church of England and ensure dialogue between the police and the Church to protect our churches as places of worship?
Andrew Selous
I am sorry to learn of my hon. Friend’s concerns. I will certainly feed that straight back to the hierarchy of the Church and ensure that those meetings happen. However, I am pleased to tell him that following his question to me on this issue last month, the police have arrested a suspect for a series of church burglaries in Barnet, Brent and Harrow, and he is remanded in custody. I have been told that the Metropolitan police is in close contact with the diocese of London and local churches, but there clearly needs to be more dialogue. I will ensure that that happens.
Richard Foord (Tiverton and Honiton) (LD)
I recently had the pleasure of visiting the Holy Trinity church at Dunkeswell, which sits on the site of the Cistercian Dunkeswell abbey in my constituency. Visiting it is a moving, spiritual experience. Given that some sites such as that are in rural, remote areas where there will simply never be the footfall that the hon. Member describes, can he assure us that we can continue to keep them open in spite of any threat of theft?
Andrew Selous
I completely understand the hon. Gentleman’s point. Like him, I am a lover of our rural churches. I suggest that he points the churchwardens and the priest to the comprehensive advice on the Church of England website and perhaps has further conversations with the diocese and local police. If there are still issues, I ask him to come back to me about that.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Second Church Estates Commissioner for that answer. We live in an age where modern technology is available as a method of addressing these issues but is incredibly expensive. What funds are issued to us in Northern Ireland through Barnett consequentials to ensure that churches can adequately secure buildings with security cameras and CCTV? If there is currently no funding, could that be considered when we take into account the rural and isolated status of so many church buildings?
Andrew Selous
I am sorry to tell the hon. Gentleman that, as far as I am aware, this area is not covered by Barnett consequentials. Again, I direct him to the advice on the Church of England website, which can be seen by churches in Northern Ireland. If there are particular issues, I am happy to have a quiet conversation with him in the Tea Room to see how we can share best practice to try to help his churches.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
Andrew Selous
Both archbishops have offered to meet the Home Secretary, and the Church has provided advice and guidance for clergy to consider when dealing with requests for baptism from asylum seekers. The guidance refers to the need for discernment and recognises that there may be mixed motives on the part of asylum seekers requesting baptism.
Mr Hollobone
I welcome that meeting. Those who are genuinely seeking to convert to Christianity should of course be allowed to do so. But is my hon. Friend aware that there is growing concern in this country that the Church of England—naively at best, and deliberately at worst—is being seen to aid and abet asylum seekers in getting around the laws of this country and remaining in the United Kingdom? May I urge the Church of England to update its guidance entitled “Supporting Asylum Seekers—Guidance for Church of England Clergy” as soon as possible to ensure that it is in alignment with new legislation passed in this House?
Andrew Selous
That guidance is being updated, so I can reassure my hon. Friend on that point. He is right that clergy will always rightly tell everyone they come across about the love of Jesus, but clergy do not determine asylum claims. Of course, priests are expected to uphold the law and make truthful representations of character. I hope that reassures him. I also note that in the recent Times investigation of 28 cases heard by the upper tribunal where a claimant cited conversion to Christianity as a reason to be granted asylum, only seven were approved, 13 were dismissed, and new hearings were ordered in eight other cases.
Michael Fabricant
My hon. Friend will have heard the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) at Prime Minister’s questions. The problem is, this brings the Church of England into disrepute. It implies that some vicars are naive, foolish and innocent. It is important for the credibility of the Church of England that training is more robust and that well-meaning folk do not endanger our society.
Andrew Selous
I hear very clearly what my hon. Friend says. I know that he, like me, takes seriously the reputation of the Church of England. He cares a great deal about it, and I am grateful to him for that. I repeat the answer I gave my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone): priests are required to use discernment, to recognise that there might be mixed motives, and always to put forward truthful representations of character.
Sir Desmond Swayne
I heard the words of my hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) as well. When there is plenty wrong and plenty to complain about, it is not always the case that we should blame the established Church, is it?
Andrew Selous
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. Any institution run by humans will never be perfect, but he is right that the Church of England was unfairly accused of being involved in some cases, when it had no involvement at all.
Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)
Andrew Selous
In February 2023, the General Synod passed a motion to welcome the decision by the House of Bishops to replace a document called “Issues in Human Sexuality”. The House of Bishops has published pastoral guidance that partially replaces that document. It is working on further pastoral guidance that would allow the document to be replaced entirely.
Mr Bradshaw
Papers going to tomorrow’s General Synod once again recommend backtracking on the agreements made, not just in February but in the autumn General Synod, regarding same-sex blessings and the rules governing priests in same-sex relationships. That is totally unacceptable. Yesterday’s report by Professor Alexis Jay on safeguarding in the Church of England was excoriating. It pointed to serial failures, and recommended setting up a completely independent body, the Church being stripped of its responsibilities, and those being handed to an independent regulator. It pains me to say this, but does the hon. Gentleman agree that dealing with both those very important historical challenges for the Church appears to be beyond the capacity and will of its current leadership, and that perhaps our established Church might benefit from a fresh start at the top?
Andrew Selous
The right hon. Gentleman takes these issues very seriously and has a long involvement with the Church of England. Starting with the second issue, the Church commissioned Professor Jay’s report. The Church gets the seriousness of these issues, and it will consider very seriously how to respond. The archbishops have described her report as a “vital next step”. We are not in denial, and we will put things right. The right hon. Gentleman also knows very well how the General Synod of the Church of England works; it is a sovereign body. It meets again this weekend. Reconciling different viewpoints so that we can walk together is not easy, but we are committed to that. I know that his words will have been heard and noted by members of the General Synod in advance of its debate.
Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
Through the sister Churches of our communion and our linked missionary societies, the Church of England continues to provide both prayerful support and practical assistance to all parts of the Anglican communion where freedom of religion or belief is threatened or impaired. The Church works with our Government, other Governments around the world, and multilateral bodies such as the United Nations to advocate forcefully for freedom of religion or belief.
Fiona Bruce
Following the implementation of much of the groundbreaking Truro review, the UK is now seen as a global leader on religious freedom. However, sadly, persecution is exponentially increasing across the world, so we need to embed that work. Does my hon. Friend agree that, like Governments, religious leaders need to commit to strategic thinking, structural change and the provision of additional resources if together we are to effectively tackle this global scourge?
Andrew Selous
Indeed I do. On embedding that work, it is good news that my hon. Friend’s International Freedom of Religion or Belief Bill had a successful Second Reading in this House on 26 January, and that it goes to Committee in April. I am glad that the Bill is strongly supported by the Foreign Secretary, and that the Bishop of Winchester has offered to take it forward in the other place; of course, he was the person who wrote the original report. However, my hon. Friend’s challenge is fair. As our Government step up on this global challenge, the Church of England and the Anglican communion need to as well. I will pass her remarks back to Lambeth Palace.
Mr Speaker
That completes the questions, but I would like to answer Sir Charles. The security of all Members really matters. It is taken very seriously in this House. Work is ongoing, and I am having serious conversations about what we do going forward. I can tell you that we have some of the best people working on it, and I would like to thank them for what they do.
Oral Answers to Questions
Andrew Selous Excerpts(10 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Stuart Andrew
I commend the hon. Lady for her commitment to improving sports facilities in her local area, and I commend all the volunteers, like Jonathan Dunn, who do a tremendous amount of work. Frankly, without them we would not have so many people being physically active. The Football Foundation and Sport England are always ready to discuss potential investments, and I would be happy to provide the hon. Lady with those contacts. Of course, I will raise this issue with my colleagues in the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities.
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)
The community sports area on Tithe Farm Road in Houghton Regis is about to get an amazing new all-weather facility funded by developer money, town council money, Central Bedfordshire Council money and Government money. Will the Minister come to open the facility? It is much needed and should be celebrated.
Stuart Andrew
How could I possibly resist such an invitation? It is always a great honour to open facilities in this role, and I am delighted that we are so busy that we are opening thousands of them.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
The Church Commissioners provided £1 million to support music in cathedrals during the pandemic. That sum was match funded by the Cathedral Music Trust. The commissioners are extremely grateful to the trust for doing what it did to help ensure that worship in our cathedrals remains of the highest calibre.
Michael Fabricant
My hon. Friend will know that cathedral schools, such as Lichfield Cathedral School, play an important part in providing young choristers for cathedrals, but they are very concerned that if they have to charge 20% on their fees, and possibly lose their charitable status, they may no longer be viable and will go bust. What assessment have the commissioners made of the effects of such a change?
Andrew Selous
I can tell my hon. Friend that there is a concern that cathedral schools may not be able to afford to pay business rates. If the payment of business rates and the addition of VAT on fees cause choir schools to close, that would be an issue for a number of cathedrals.
Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
Andrew Selous
Many parish churches provide shelters and support for rough sleepers. The Church of England is working to provide long-term secure housing for those who need it, and piloting projects to build housing on Church land to enable that to happen.
Kevin Foster
Church buildings and congregations can work well with local councils to reduce rough sleeping by providing not only a bed and a meal, but the opportunity for lasting spiritual and emotional support through membership of the Church family. What further support can the Church of England offer parishes in Torbay that are undertaking such work?
Andrew Selous
I warmly congratulate all the churches in Torbay on the provision of the night shelter, and I single out in particular Mark Gridley and Gary Mitchell, who I know have been instrumental in leading that work—I am sure that the whole House is grateful for what they are doing. It is also typical of my hon. Friend that, as I understand it, he provides a Sunday evening surgery at the shelter. I am sure that churches across England could learn from that excellent initiative. If any churches would welcome conversation with the Church of England about housing on Church land, I ask them to get in touch with me directly and I will enable that to happen.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
In my constituency, unfortunately, at this time of year we are witnessing a number of people who are homeless—we have not seen that for some time. The story of Christmas tells of Mary’s journey before the birth of baby Jesus, when they too were homeless. I am very keen to hear from the Church Commissioners what can be done not just here on the mainland, which I understand is the responsibility of the Church of England, but in Northern Ireland, where the Church of Ireland and other churches also wish to participate.
Andrew Selous
I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. In the first instance, I suggest that he and churches in Northern Ireland might want to look at the joint archbishops’ commission on housing, which came out last year. The commission was widely praised for its work, and we are taking that work forward in the Church of England, but I am sure that churches in Northern Ireland could learn from it as well.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
I am very pleased to be able to tell the hon. Lady that the Church of England has transformed its use of digital and social media in recent years, including through Instagram and TikTok, and our digital team has won over 30 prestigious awards for its work. That has led to hugely increased online engagement—as the hon. Lady and I were learning about earlier this morning—not least among those who have difficulty attending church.
Rachael Maskell
In a multimedia age, there are 2 million people in the UK who are housebound, and globally many Christians across the persecuted church are unable to gather with others. With good Christian online content such as services and podcasts, and popular series such as “The Chosen” through to the Alpha course, how is the Church equipping people to navigate that content safely and easily, in order to extend its mission with the equipment and skills needed to access it?
Andrew Selous
I commend the hon. Lady for such an important question, which takes in the housebound in England and people persecuted across the world who cannot attend church safely; she is absolutely right to raise those issues. For those who are not online at all, the Church of England offers DailyHope, which is a free telephone line providing 24/7 worship, prayer and talks. Of course, our digital content can be followed not just around England but across the world, to help make Jesus known.
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
Back from wine to God, Mr Speaker. Sadly, vandalism and theft are persistent issues for parish churches, and I was sorry to learn about thefts at churches in Stanmore, Hendon, Edgware and Bushey in my hon. Friend’s constituency. I can tell him that advice from the diocese has been circulated to all parishes in the area. Of course, the best way to deter thieves is to have a high footfall in and around churches, keeping the building open to welcome people. I also know that the police will be providing crime prevention advice to the churches concerned.
Bob Blackman
I thank my hon. Friend for his answer. He is right that St John’s church in Stanmore was the subject of a burglary just before Christmas, Christ Church in Hendon was the subject of another burglary, and St Andrew’s church in Kingsbury was robbed during the mass itself. Will my hon. Friend use his powers to encourage the police to take extra action, particularly around Christian festivals when it seems that there is more action by burglars and a pattern of behaviour?
Andrew Selous
I think the whole House is very sorry to learn what has happened to my hon. Friend’s local churches. A theft during the mass is really quite extraordinary. I will make sure that the Church of England nationally gets in touch with the Metropolitan police to pass on his concerns about that case. On general security advice, alarm sensors and attaching safes securely to the building will help, as will making sure that there is an accurate record, and pictures of valuables can help to secure their return. We certainly do not want a repeat of what my hon. Friend has experienced.
Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
Andrew Selous
I commend the Prime Minister’s special envoy for freedom of religion or belief for yet again bringing this issue before the House. It is extremely concerning that the Cuban Government continue to control religious activity so tightly by using surveillance, harassment, forced exile, fines and ill-treatment of prisoners. The Church of England works multilaterally through the United Nations, the World Council of Churches and other bodies to advocate vigorously for freedom of religion or belief for everyone in Cuba.
Fiona Bruce
I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. The Open Doors 2024 world watchlist will be launched in the Palace of Westminster on 17 January, and I urge all colleagues to attend. I anticipate that once again it will, sadly, indicate a deteriorating picture of freedom for Christians around the world as autocratic regimes seek to suppress dissenting voices.
On Cuba, I thank the Church Commissioner for sharing my concerns about reports on the worsening situation, particularly for religious leaders there. As he mentioned, many are subject to harassment, fines, forced exile, detention and ill-treatment in prison. Will he join me in calling for the release of religious prisoner of conscience Pastor Lorenzo Rosales Fajardo?
Andrew Selous
My hon. Friend is absolutely right that the case of Pastor Lorenzo is all too indicative of a worsening climate of freedom of religion or belief in Cuba. The Church of England calls on the Cuban Government to release Pastor Lorenzo immediately, along with all those others detained in relation to the 11 July protests. The international community must continue to follow this case closely and hold Cuba to account bilaterally and multilaterally. My hon. Friend has put Pastor Lorenzo’s name on the record in this House. I also endorse everything she said about the Open Doors event in the House next Wednesday.
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
The House may not be aware that the Anglican Church is one of the largest providers of healthcare and education globally. The al-Ahli Hospital in Gaza is an example of this. Before Christmas, the hospital was severely damaged again and a tank demolished its front wall. Most of the hospital staff were taken away by the Israeli Defence Force and the Church of England has asked the Government here to inquire about their wellbeing and whereabouts and to request that they be released.
Sir Desmond Swayne
Intimidation by hard-line settlers has prompted the Patriarch to say that clergy are fighting for their lives, and that the Armenian quarter faces a violent demise. Is a Christian presence in Jerusalem still viable?
Andrew Selous
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for bringing this issue before the House. He is right: a century ago, a quarter of Jerusalem was Christian; now, just 1% of the population is, and in the Armenian quarter of the old city, the Christian presence has come under intensified threat from intimidation and aggressive property acquisition by settlers. The Church of England is very concerned that the rule of law should prevail in Israel and the status quo be maintained. It is unconscionable that Christians should be driven from the holy land.
Oral Answers to Questions
Andrew Selous Excerpts(1 year ago)
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Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
My hon. Friend is right to focus on the importance of this issue. The Church of England is working hard to create a church that is younger and more diverse, doubling the number of children and young active disciples by 2030. More than £60 million has been awarded to five dioceses to achieve that.
Bob Blackman
Recently, I had the opportunity to be at the patronal service where 12 young people from St Mary’s church in Kenton and St Lawrence’s church in Stanmore were confirmed in the Church of England. That demonstrates that young people are attracted to the church, but what more can my hon. Friend—and the Church—do to attract younger people to come into the church and fulfil their destiny?
Andrew Selous
I am delighted to learn about the good work at St Mary’s Kenton and St Lawrence’s Stanmore, where 12 young people were recently confirmed. The good news is that the £60 million is being well spent, and is producing promising results across the Church of England. We need to see a lot more of it.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
Whenever I was a child in the ’60s—it wasn’t yesterday—every child in Ballywalter attended Sunday school meetings. Today, it is a different generation. National Sunday attendance figures for under-16s have dropped below 100,000 for the first time. I understand that the Church is reaching out to young people, but perhaps we need to reach out a wee bit differently. What plans are there to do that?
Andrew Selous
As always, the hon. Gentleman is on the money. I can tell him that the Church’s strategic mission and ministry investment board is doing exactly that: investing in a range of different organisations that are connecting really well with young people, often through community projects. Large numbers of them are coming to church and staying there, which is brilliant.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
Andrew Selous
I thank my hon. Friend and the cathedral chapter at Lichfield for their warm welcome on my recent visit, which I greatly enjoyed. The Lichfield cathedral summer school is indeed an inspiration to the wider Church in supporting children, many of whom are on free school meals, to socialise and learn before the new school year begins. It has expanded with county council support and the Government’s holiday activities and food programme, and it would like to operate throughout the school holidays. I warmly commend it.
Michael Fabricant
I thank my hon. Friend for his answer. It is the 20th anniversary of MusicShare, which started in Lichfield. Over 150 schools are engaged each year. I went to the anniversary concert in Lichfield cathedral last Saturday and saw “Noye’s Fludde”, which was written by Benjamin Britten. It was a spectacular occasion, with all the schoolchildren taking part. What more could Lichfield do to advise other cathedrals on how it ought to be done?
Andrew Selous
As so often, where Lichfield leads others follow. My hon. Friend is right that the choral tradition in our cathedrals is one of the glories of our country. Lichfield’s MusicShare programme has, I understand, reached 25,000 children, with participants of all ages, including people up to their 90s. That is, no doubt, why it has won a national award from The Times Educational Supplement.
Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
This week the General Synod agreed that the prayers of love and faith, and the pastoral guidance for their use, will be commended for use from mid-December, and also that special services of prayer and dedication using the prayers of love and faith can be authorised for a trial period before full synodical authorisation.
Mr Bradshaw
I am sure the vast majority of Members on both sides of the House will warmly welcome the outcome of Synod yesterday, and I thank the hon. Member for the role he played in conveying Parliament’s views to Synod. It was very clear during the debate that there are a small number who will never, ever accept LGBT people as equals in their churches. As he knows, some parishes have stopped paying their diocesan share—effectively going on strike. Why should they continue to enjoy the benefits and privileges of being Church of England parishes?
Andrew Selous
The payments by parishes to dioceses, often known as common fund or parish share, are voluntary payments towards the cost of ministry in those parishes and in the wider Church. It is a matter for dioceses how they work with their parishes to encourage them to contribute, but I would certainly very strongly encourage every church to make a fair contribution to the costs of their ministry and, where they can, to help others in poorer areas.
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
I reinforce what the right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) said about the general welcome in the House for the movement towards equality and fairness. We have had it on ordination; we now have it on same-sex relationships up to a point. Through my hon. Friend, I ask those who are disappointed with this movement forward to think of the pain that they have caused by resisting the change for so many people, whether by sex or orientation, over the past decades.
Andrew Selous
I am grateful, as always, to the Father of the House for his wise reflections on these matters. He is right that this has been a difficult and painful period across the Church. I very much regret that, as he does. I hope we can move forward together in love, truth and unity on these matters.
Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
Andrew Selous
I am extremely grateful to the Prime Minister’s special envoy for freedom of religion or belief for again bringing the situation in Manipur to the House’s attention. Archbishop Justin has spoken about it publicly, other bishops have contacted the Indian high commissioner, and I will shortly be visiting the high commissioner myself to talk about issues in Manipur with another hon. Member, both of us being great friends of India.
Fiona Bruce
There have been months of violence in Manipur, and that violence continues, with Christians of different ethnicities targeted—such as the mother crying after four family members were tortured, killed, mutilated and cut to pieces on 7 November. Hundreds of churches and homes have been burnt, women have been sexually abused and organised mobs attack with impunity, allegedly using looted Government weapons. International news media from abroad find access hard. Will the Church continue to do all that it can to draw the world’s attention to this situation so that those responsible can be brought to account, the violence does not spread further, and practical help can be provided in the form of security, rehabilitation, reconstruction, and compensation for those who have suffered so much?
Andrew Selous
Reflecting on those awful remarks, I would suggest that it is pretty shocking to realise what our news media do not tell us much of the time. However, I can tell my hon. Friend that the Church of England is in regular contact with the Church of North India to offer all the support we can, and that we are supporting Anglicans here in the UK who have connections with Manipur. Those who suffer in Manipur are not alone, and we will continue to walk alongside them.
Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
Andrew Selous
The Church of England is proud to have a presence in every part of the country, but sadly that means that our churches and clergy are sometimes targeted in unpleasant ways. Working with the police and local authorities, the Church recognises that it has a duty of care to all its staff, and it will always do everything it can to protect and assist them.
Kevin Foster
It is right that parish churches offer a beacon of hope and light to those going through the dark tunnel of addiction, reaching out the hand of Christian fellowship, but that can result in both clergy and church buildings being targeted by darker forces who see that as a threat to their trade. What further steps does my hon. Friend believe dioceses could take to ensure the personal safety of all involved?
Andrew Selous
I am extremely sorry to learn that clergy and church buildings are being targeted in this way in my hon. Friend’s constituency. I thank the leadership and all the members of Paignton parish church for the inspirational work that they are doing in supporting those who are sleeping rough, and in tackling drug and alcohol addiction. That is important and necessary work, and I commend my hon. Friend for doing it. I am sure that the diocese of Exeter and Devon and Cornwall police will be able to offer further help as they undertake that challenging work.
Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)
Andrew Selous
The Church of England is supporting asylum seekers and refugees across the country, and our chaplaincies in Europe are providing health kits, safe places to sleep, clothes, and messages to families who have become separated.
Richard Graham
My hon. Friend will know that the diocese of Gloucester has recently acquired six modular homes from a local provider. Following the Gloucester housing summit that I convened not long ago, our diocese, city council and housing association are discussing how to make this model of modular housing work effectively for people in need of temporary accommodation, including those recently granted asylum. Will my hon. Friend join me in congratulating the diocese on its good work so far, and encourage it to make progress and put this model into practice as soon as possible, recognising that it is a new approach that could perhaps be adopted elsewhere?
Andrew Selous
I am very happy to congratulate those in the diocese of Gloucester and thank them for the pioneering work that they are doing on housing, and I also thank my hon. Friend for the important leadership role he plays locally in respect of that extremely important issue. He is right to suggest that what Gloucester is doing has a wider application for others in need of emergency housing, not just asylum seekers and refugees, vitally important though that provision is. I share his view that the need is urgent, and that we should get on with this and other similar excellent initiatives as quickly as possible.
Nick Fletcher (Don Valley) (Con)
Andrew Selous
Parish ministry is at the very heart of the Church’s mission. The Church Commissioners are distributing £1.2 billion between 2023 and 2025 to support our mission and ministry. This is a 30% increase on the previous three-year period, and a significant share of that funding will be distributed through dioceses to strengthen our parishes.
Nick Fletcher
What can the Church hierarchy do to remove administrative burdens from the clergy, so they can spend more time in their community spreading the best message ever told: the gospel of Jesus Christ?
Andrew Selous
I think we all recognise that, in any position of public responsibility, there comes a need for some administrative work, but I very much agree with my hon. Friend that we should be freeing up our clergy and parish staff as much as possible to interact with their parishioners and to spread the good news of Jesus Christ. As someone said, the gospel is good news only if it is not too late. I also note the tremendous work being done in his community by St John the Evangelist in Balby and, indeed, by many other churches in his local area.
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)
Last Saturday I was privileged to attend the enthronement of the new Bishop of Lincoln, at which there was a vast array of clergy in all their finery. It was a very grand occasion. Lincoln is a predominantly rural diocese and many of the clergy serve five, six or more parishes. Can my hon. Friend reassure me that the Church will focus on providing more clergy to rural areas?
Andrew Selous
I am delighted that my hon. Friend was able to attend the consecration of the new Bishop of Lincoln. Consecrations are, indeed, very splendid affairs.
My hon. Friend is completely right that the beating heart of the Church of England is what goes on in the parishes. Rural areas really matter, as does every part of the country. I assure him that we will not forget rural areas, and I recognise the problems of large benefices.
Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con)
We also have rural churches in North Devon, and St Augustine’s church in Heanton Punchardon is without a rector. Will my hon. Friend join me in recognising and congratulating Sharon Newcombe of Pilton on the service she has provided to that church, where she has sung in the choir for over 51 years?
Andrew Selous
I am sure the whole House will join me in thanking Sharon Newcombe for her fantastic service to her local church and local community. Fifty-one years’ service to her local church is extremely impressive, and we are very grateful to her. I recognise that leading laypeople keep many of our churches going through these difficult times, and I thank her very much for what she does.
Oral Answers to Questions
Andrew Selous Excerpts(1 year, 5 months ago)
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Sir John Whittingdale
Again, that is a matter for the BBC. I would say that the decision to freeze the licence fee was to reflect the significant pressures on the cost of living for many people—it would have been wrong to expect them to pay a significant increase at that time. That period is, of course, coming to an end shortly, but nevertheless the licence fee delivers a very large amount of money to the BBC. How it spends it is a matter for the BBC, but in my view, local radio remains an important part of the BBC’s output.
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)
Would the Minister be kind enough to ask the BBC to actually consult local people on what they think about the BBC’s proposed changes to radio services? “BBC Three Counties” is a very popular programme, and my constituents tell me they want it to carry on as before, so perhaps the BBC could ask the people it is broadcasting to, rather than just taking its own decisions.
Sir John Whittingdale
I recall the debate that has already taken place in this House on this matter, which was very widely attended. We heard from across the Chamber how much local radio is supported in each of the various areas represented by Members who spoke. The BBC does do a lot of consultation, but I agree that it is very important that local people should be able to make their views known on that proposal.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
The Church of England has enthusiastically supported the Government’s Sing Up programme, encouraging local music hubs to partner with churches, and enabling the use of skills and knowledge that schools would otherwise have to buy in. I am sure that my right hon. Friend, as a strong supporter of singing in church, will very much approve.
Sir Desmond Swayne
When will they be singing up in the New Forest?
Andrew Selous
I am very pleased to be able to tell my right hon. Friend that the new co-director of music at St Mary’s church in Fordingbridge, Hazel Ricketts, is running a singing club, working with 53 children in local schools every week. Her expertise in church music will enable that work to expand next term to include all four local schools, both primary and secondary. I am sure that my right hon. Friend will want to go to enjoy this wonderful singing for himself.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I am afraid that, as it says in the Bible, I make a joyful noise—it is never melodious, but it is always joyful and always noisy. I am very keen to encourage school choirs and church choirs to sing together. We have a tradition of that in my constituency. What can the hon. Gentleman do to ensure that Strangford can be a part of the project he is talking about?
Andrew Selous
As the hon. Gentleman knows, sadly the Church of England does not have any jurisdiction in Northern Ireland, but we are a generous-hearted church and we will share everything we are doing across England with churches in Northern Ireland. I am sure the scheme could easily be copied there.
Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
Andrew Selous
I am delighted to tell my hon. Friend that, with financial assistance from the Church Commissioners, the Diocese of Exeter has increased the number of new curates to tell more people the good news about Jesus. On 1 July it will ordain 18 new ministers, 11 of whom are stipendiary and seven are self-supporting.
Kevin Foster
My hon. Friend will be aware that some of the diocese of Exeter’s most challenged parishes are in the Torbay deanery, where an ordained minister can not only bring people into Christ’s flock but be a lynchpin for wider community work. Has the Church of England looked at the situation of deprived communities in Torquay and Paignton to see where an additional ordained minister may be able to bring real value to those communities?
Andrew Selous
I am very pleased to be able to tell my hon. Friend that Ordinand Kenny Wickens is soon to be the curate at Our Lady and All Saints, Torquay. I would also like to pass on my thanks to two inspirational priests in my hon. Friend’s constituency, the Reverend Sam Leach from Saint Mags church in Torquay and the Reverend Matt Bray from the Bay Church in Paignton, for the work they do in running the Living Room café, and groups for children and young people across the Torbay constituency.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
Parish ministry is at the heart of the mission of the Church and, per head of population, there is a higher proportion of ministers in rural areas than in urban ones, although I fully recognise how great the loss is to rural areas when they lose their minister. Between 2023 and 2025, the Church Commissioners will distribute £1.2 billion to support the Church’s mission and ministry, which is a 30% increase on the current three-year period, and a significant share of that funding will go towards revitalising parish ministry.
Sir Edward Leigh
Rural Lincolnshire has arguably the finest collection of medieval churches in the country and it is a joy to visit them. Many are open through the open churches event organised as part of the West Lindsey Churches Festival. Does my hon. Friend agree that the glory of the Church of England is the parish structure? Does he agree with many of the points made by the Save the Parish campaign, which prioritises keeping our parish churches open and functioning through worship, despite increasing diocesan bureaucracy?
Andrew Selous
I completely understand where my right hon. Friend is coming from. His concerns are shared by many colleagues across the House, because they care so much about the great work done in local parishes. If any of the communities in his constituency have candidates for non-stipendiary ministry—or self-supporting ministry, as we call it these days—that might be a way to provide a focal minister at slightly less cost; the Caleb stream might be one way to provide that. The Church of England’s lead bishop for rural affairs, the Bishop of Exeter, has also recently published “How Village Churches Thrive: a practical guide”, which might be helpful to my right hon. Friend’s local churches.
Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con)
Andrew Selous
The commissioners made 36 recommendations to the Church of England and 29 to the Government, and now the focus must turn to implementation. Recommendations include supporting a consistent and universal roll-out of family hubs, requiring registrars to signpost high-quality marriage preparation, and a call to the Church to build relational capability at all life stages, not just for couples preparing for marriage.
Tim Loughton
I declare an interest as the son of a former Church of England rector.
In 2011, there were 51,000 weddings in Church of England churches; by 2019, pre-covid, that figure had dropped to 29,000; and since the current Archbishop of Canterbury came to office in 2013, as he readily admitted last week, the average congregational attendance has dropped by 15%. How can the Church of England influence the population on family relationships and marriage matters, when too many of the congregations are voting with their feet?
Andrew Selous
That is a good challenge from my hon. Friend, who I know cares about these things. The work the commissioners are doing to fund the Church to try new types of ministry is proving successful in different parts of the country. I know he will join me in supporting the objectives of the Church Commissioners to try to strengthen family life, which was the subject of his question. In particular, I think he will agree with me about the role that registrars have to play, but he makes a fair point that we need people in the churches. That is central to what the Church of England is doing.
Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)
There might be more weddings in church were the Church of England to allow same-sex couples to get married in church. In that context, does he welcome the commissioners’ conclusion, as I do, that
“‘family’ does not necessitate a certain type of relationship or a specific family form. What matters is the depth of the connections and the support which can always be relied upon”?
Is that not completely inconsistent with the Church’s continued rejection of families where the couple happens to be of the same sex, and its refusal to solemnise their committed relationships?
Andrew Selous
I know that the right hon. Gentleman follows these issues closely. This was an independent report to the archbishops, which has been welcomed by the Church. It is based on deep evidence collecting over a two-year period, which involved talking to, in particular, young people up and down the country. I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that it contains some sensible suggestions, and the matters to which he refers are on the agenda of the General Synod of the Church of England, which will take place in York early next month.
Oral Answers to Questions
Andrew Selous Excerpts(1 year, 10 months ago)
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Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
There are Church of England churches that provide breakfast and lunch clubs, as well as youth, children’s and toddler activities, including messy church and much more besides. A vibrant children’s and youth ministry is often a key component of church growth.
Kevin Foster
I thank my hon. Friend for his answer. The core of any parish mission is outreach to the community, with events such as the forthcoming family fun day at St Martin’s church, Barton, which will offer local families a chance for free fun, with lunch included. What resources are the Church Commissioners providing to support parishes in that mission and to ensure that details of such events reach those who would most benefit from attending?
Andrew Selous
I commend my hon. Friend for drawing attention, for the second month in a row, to the great work done by his local churches—none more so than St Martin’s church, Barton under the inspirational leadership of Father Nick Debney and Pamela Macey. On behalf of the House and the Church of England leadership, I warmly thank them for everything they do. I will send my hon. Friend details of the national churches strategic funding programmes, to which the diocese of Exeter can apply for St Martin’s church and other local churches.
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
The Taylor review of cathedral and church building sustainability was published in 2017. There is an urgent need for dialogue with the Government about it, because without a bedrock of basic maintenance and repairs funding, there is a real risk to many of our amazing church and cathedral buildings. In passing, I note that such issues are always easier to address with a full church.
Bob Blackman
I thank my hon. Friend for that answer. My constituency is home to no fewer than 24 churches, including every branch of Christianity, but St Lawrence’s church in particular is in dire need of repair. It is a very well populated church, but it does need additional funds to restore it to its previous good keeping. Can my hon. Friend tell me what help will be given to St Lawrence’s church?
Andrew Selous
I have read up on St Lawrence, Little Stanmore: its baroque interior and internationally renowned organ—Handel was employed as a composer in residence —are real treasures. I will put my hon. Friend in touch with the national church buildings department, which advises parishes on grants and support for refurbishment. I can also tell him that the Willesden area council of the diocese of London is able to distribute grants of up to £20,000 for urgent repairs.
John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)
As the hon. Member said, a large number of churches and cathedrals in this country are in serious danger, including a number in my constituency. He also mentioned discussions between the Government and the Church of England on securing the future of churches. Will he say if those discussions are imminent?
Andrew Selous
I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that point, and I think the answer is that they need a bit of a boost, if I could put it that way. I would welcome his support, and indeed that of hon. Members on all sides, because I think all places of worship—and the Church of England does have an enormous number of grade I and grade II buildings—are important in all of our communities, and we do need a serious national conversation about how we keep them going for the future. Other countries fund them from the state. Personally, I do not think that is right, but I do think we need a dialogue with Government as to how we go forward in this area.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
The Church Commissioners have not tried to draw a direct line from historical investments to current assets, given the myriad inflows and outflows over 300 years. Our forensic accountants estimate that investments linked to the slaving activities of the South Sea Company were equivalent to several hundred million pounds in today’s money. That is deeply shameful to acknowledge, and while no amount of money will ever be enough to repair the horrors of the past, the Church Commissioners have decided to invest £100 million over the next nine years in a better future for all, particularly in those communities affected by historical slavery.
Sir Desmond Swayne
Can my hon. Friend assure me that the not disproportionate £100 million will be spent to reduce the shocking persistence of slavery in the present?
Andrew Selous
The £100-million fund will enable impact investment grant funding and research in response to the findings in the Church Commissioners’ report. An oversight group will be established to help the Church Commissioners shape and deliver that response. Today the Church Commissioners, as award-winning ethical investors, punch well above their weight in combating modern slavery and human rights violations all around the world.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
While we cannot and should never ignore the Church’s historical involvement with slavery, is it not better to focus on the missionary work that churches did over the years, with the spread of the Gospel and the best story ever told: that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners?
Andrew Selous
I do not think it is a question of either/or. When the chief executive of the Church Commissioners was on the “Today” programme recently explaining why we have done this, he was contacted later that day by a global majority heritage individual who had stayed away from the Church for 40 years and is now going to come back again. I say also to the hon. Gentleman that full churches do not tend to fall down.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
Andrew Selous
I look forward very much to visiting Lichfield cathedral, but sadly that may not be until after Dean Adrian Dorber retires. I know that the dean’s work has been so significant that I will see many ongoing examples of his tremendous legacy when I do visit.
Michael Fabricant
My hon. Friend is absolutely right, because he will see the Herkenrode glass, which has been restored, and he will hear the magnificent organ, for which £6 million had to be raised to make it sound so beautiful. They are a reminder that a dean’s work is not just worship, but fundraising, management and all the other factors in running a great and successful cathedral such as Lichfield. What sort of training is given? It seemed to me that poor Adrian Dorber had to learn on the job and then, with a little bit more investigation, Mr Speaker—it is a bit like being a Speaker, actually—that they all have to learn on the job. Can we not improve on that?
Andrew Selous
One might think that Lichfield cathedral was the only cathedral in the Church of England, because my hon. Friend is one of the very few Members who regularly stands up for his cathedral. Running a cathedral, as he rightly says, is not only a major spiritual undertaking to proclaim the good news of Jesus, but a huge management task, which is why we require all new deans to undertake a component of an MBA module before taking up office.
Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)
Andrew Selous
With you permission, Mr Speaker, following my response to the urgent question on Tuesday, the advice I was given then was by the Church legal office, and I was yesterday asked to make a small clarification. A simple majority in each of the three Houses of the General Synod could suffice to pass a measure and amending canon to change the definition of marriage in ecclesiastical law, but circumstances could also arise in which two-thirds majorities in the House of Bishops and the House of Clergy would be needed, and, as with all authorised forms of service, a two-thirds majority in each House would be required for the approval of the Synod as a form of service for the marriage of a same-sex couple. I apologise, Mr Speaker, but I was only informed yesterday. Given that I was answering questions today, I thought you would find it acceptable that I put that slight clarification on the record.
In answer to the question from the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine), it is the case that the General Synod of the Church of England can make its own decisions on these matters. Members of the Synod will have a chance to make their own views clearly known, having listened to the very forcible views expressed in this House on Tuesday. I repeat that the Church of England has apologised for past behaviours, and welcomes and values LGBTQI+ people unreservedly and joyfully.
Christine Jardine
I thank the hon. Member for that clarification and for his comments about welcoming the LGBTQI+ community joyfully. But can I ask him to clarify then why it is that a man and a woman who do not believe in God and do not regularly attend church are welcome to marry in the Church of England—indeed, the Church’s website says, “God’s blessing is the main attraction for many couples”—but a couple in a same-sex relationship, both of whom may have worshipped in the Church all their lives and live in the spirit of Christian faith, are denied the same right in the Church, even though similar denominations in Scotland offer that opportunity? Can the hon. Member inform the House whether the Commissioners have discussed that inequality with the Church of England?
Andrew Selous
The hon. Lady is right to raise this issue. These matters will be very livelily debated at the General Synod between 6 and 9 February. I can also tell her that each province in the global Anglican communion is autonomous. The majority of the provinces in the communion provide neither blessings nor marriages for same-sex couples: the Scottish Episcopal Church provides marriages, the Church in Wales provides blessings, and the Church of Ireland provides neither for same-sex couples, so the hon. Lady can see that there is a variety of practice within these islands. But I have heard what she has said and, more importantly, I will make sure that the General Synod is very well aware of her views and those of others in this House.
Oral Answers to Questions
Andrew Selous Excerpts(1 year, 11 months ago)
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Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
The Church of England’s Christmas resources usually reach around 10 million people, and we hope for the same reach for this year’s “Follow the Star” theme, details of which can be found on the A Church Near You website. Crib, Christingle and carol services will take place in most of our 16,000 parishes and 4,500 primary schools to spread the good news of Jesus’s birth.
Bob Blackman
I was at one of our churches last night, and I was thanked for giving it work to help answer the question. From the census, we know Christianity is now a minority religion. What further action can the Church take to encourage more people to come back over Christmas, on such a joyous occasion?
Andrew Selous
I thank my hon. Friend for the support he gives to all the faith communities in his constituency. The answer to his question is in the work taking place in his local parishes. I know he will join me in commending, for example, the work of Rev. Jody Stowell at St Michael and All Angels in Harrow Weald, which is offering a warm welcome space and a special service for those who lost loved ones during the pandemic, and of Rev. Matthew Stone at St John the Evangelist in Great Stanmore, which is offering a united advent service with seven churches across the denominations and a Christmas afternoon tea with children from five local schools. That sort of work shows our churches are right at the heart of our communities.
Kevin Foster
Events such as the recent Christmas fair at St Luke’s, Torquay and the forthcoming Christmas tree festival at Paignton parish church can provide lots of low-cost fun and support for families facing festive budget pressures. Can my hon. Friend assure me that the Church of England is giving appropriate effort to highlighting this side of parish life, which often leads to families becoming regular churchgoers?
Andrew Selous
Again, I commend my hon. Friend for the interest he shows in his local churches. He is absolutely right that these types of church event often attract families and children who then become regular attenders. I thank and commend Father Peter March at St Luke’s, Torquay and Rev. Neil Knox at Paignton parish church for everything they do. It is important that they both know their work is noticed and appreciated.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
For the record to be factually correct, we should recognise that Christianity is the largest religious group in the United Kingdom, although it may not be the majority. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is important that children are taught the value of the Christmas message and the lesson of thanksgiving at the family events to which he refers?
Andrew Selous
Yes, I very much agree with the hon. Gentleman. This is an important part of our cultural heritage, and the Church will continue to do that work.
Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
The transition pathway initiative, of which the national investing bodies of the Church of England are co-founders, has supporters representing a combined $50 trillion under management, all committed to making the transition to a low-carbon economy. The Church Commissioners also co-chair the investors policy dialogue with Indonesia on reversing deforestation.
Alexander Stafford
My hon. Friend will, of course, be aware that a report on the UK’s upcoming green taxonomy was published this morning by the all-party parliamentary group on environmental, social and governance, of which he is a valuable vice-chair. I thank him for his support and his endeavours. One of the report’s key recommendations is that the Government should consult widely with stakeholders. What discussions have the Church Commissioners had with the Government, including the Treasury, about the UK’s green taxonomy and its implications for the Church’s ESG policy and investments?
Andrew Selous
I thank my hon. Friend for his brilliant work of chairing the all-party parliamentary group on environmental, social and governance, which are so important. I am pleased that Olga Hancock, of the Church Commissioners, chairs the policy committee of the UK Sustainable Investment and Finance Association, which is a member of the Government’s green technical advisory group, so I can reassure my hon. Friend that the Church is right at the heart of this important work.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
My hon. Friend continues to be an exemplary advocate for Lichfield cathedral, and I gently encourage other colleagues with cathedrals and major churches in their constituencies to stick up for them in the way that he does. I have spoken at the annual general meeting of the Association of English Cathedrals and I have also asked the Government to respond to the independent review of the sustainability of church buildings, published by Bernard Taylor. This matters for many reasons, not least the £55 billion of social value—calculated using Treasury Green Book guidance—generated by cathedrals and churches in the UK, according to the “House of Good” report by the National Churches Trust.
Michael Fabricant
I am grateful to my hon. Friend, particularly for his kind words about me, which were very decent of him. He will know that the chair of the Association of English Cathedrals was the Dean of Lichfield cathedral, Adrian Dorber. Sadly for the community in Lichfield, he is going to retire in March, after 17 and a half years’ service. Not only does he have theological skills, but he has raised millions of pounds, and his organisational and management skills are wonderful—many deans have those, but Adrian particularly does. Does my hon. Friend think that the Church of England could make more use of people when they retire and that they should not just disappear along with all their skills?
Andrew Selous
I, too, thank Adrian Dorber very much for everything he has done as a highly effective Dean of Lichfield, not just for Lichfield cathedral, but for the city and the wider Church. His chairmanship of the AEC has been outstanding. If he wants to continue to serve the Church after his retirement in March, I am sure that his wisdom will continue to be very much appreciated.
Oral Answers to Questions
Andrew Selous Excerpts(2 years, 10 months ago)
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Julia Lopez
I know that the right hon. Lady is passionate about this issue, which is something we are actively looking at, as I mentioned earlier. Those ratings are already voluntarily taken on by the likes of Netflix and others, but we are looking at what more could be done.
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)
If there is evidence that officials in the Department have inadvertently advised the Secretary of State on the application of the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 and the HMRC film production company manual, would this be of concern to her, and would she agree to meet me and my constituent about this matter?
Ms Dorries
I have met my hon. Friend in my office and we have discussed at length the situation regarding transport between film venues. It seems to fall into a difficult area. I have written to the Secretary of State for Transport and am awaiting his response. When I have had his response, I will revert to my hon. Friend further.
Draft Grants to the Churches Conservation Trust order 2021
Andrew Selous Excerpts(3 years, 8 months ago)
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The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher. I do not intend to detain the Committee for long, but I have been asked on behalf of the Church to say a few words. I thank my hon. Friend the Minister, whom I have known since before we were elected to this House, for his very sympathetic remarks. I was particularly pleased that he mentioned the public response following the rave in the church in Essex. That just shows exactly what we are talking about: the public really care about such buildings. I was very touched that both the shadow Minister and the Minister were clearly aware of the churches looked after by the Churches Conservation Trust in their constituencies, and it was really wonderful to hear them both talking about how important those buildings are.
As the Second Church Estates Commissioner, I want to put on record the thanks of the Church Commissioners to the Treasury and the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport for their continued joint support for the Churches Conservation Trust. This is a brilliant example of partnership between the Church and state, and it was founded back in 1969—it is well over 50 years old—to ensure our nation’s architecturally significant and historic churches remain open to the public when they are unable to sustain a regular worshipping congregation.
As a reminder to the members of the Committee, the Church of England is currently responsible for the upkeep and management of 45% of the country’s grade I and II* listed buildings, including over 4,000 churches and cathedrals up and down the country. Today, the Churches Conservation Trust has the care of 356 churches right across the country, from rural Somerset to inner-city Bolton. They are used by diverse communities and are visited each year by more than 1.6 million people, along with the 4,000 volunteers who work to maintain these architectural treasures. The Committee may not be aware that the churches remain consecrated and, when allowed, they are open for private worship and often have significant community support as well.
They are often located in highly rural communities—although not always—or areas of low economic activity. The trust’s work brings jobs, maintains craft skills such as masonry, glazing and leadwork and helps levelling up, giving opportunities for young people to receive apprenticeships and preserve other heritage crafts for the next generation. The Church Commissioners look forward to developing this vital Church-state partnership in the coming years and are pleased to see the Churches Conservation Trust already revitalising its communications and public engagement strategy.
On the Church of England side, the General Synod will be asked at its meeting next month to give approval for its side of the funding order. I hope the Committee will recommend passing this financial support order and recognising the important partnership between Church and state to care for our national heritage.