Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

1. What recent assessment his Department has made of the potential impact of increases in the cost of living on the armed forces' (a) morale and (b) recruitment.

[The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)]

We have introduced a range of measures to support personnel and mitigate the cost of living, including capping subsidised accommodation charges, freezing food charges, increasing travel allowances, rebating contributions in lieu of council tax and introducing wraparound childcare, saving £3,000 per child a year. Additionally, over the past five years, the armed forces have received a cumulative pay award of 11%, with 2022 being the biggest percentage uplift in 20 years.

[Marion Fellows]

According to the House of Commons Library, this Westminster Government plan to spend £3 billion on renewing nuclear weapons for this financial year 2023-24. The UK Government are making a political choice on weapons of mass destruction. When we have seen reports of service people and their families using food banks, does the Minister think that is a wise use of public funds?

[Dr Murrison]

I have to differ with the hon. Lady. I fully support the continuous at-sea nuclear deterrent. It has kept us safe all these years, and so long as we have a Conservative Government, there will be a continuous at-sea nuclear deterrent. It is a pity that her party cannot line up behind the men and women of our armed forces, who are committed to that deterrent.

[Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab)]

2. What recent steps Veterans UK has taken to support veterans and their families.

[Stephen Morgan (Portsmouth South) (Lab)]

18. What recent steps Veterans UK has taken to support veterans and their families.

[The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)]

We will shortly be publishing the quinquennial review into the armed forces compensation scheme and the independent review of Government provision of welfare services for veterans. Between them, they will ensure that the scheme remains fit for purpose and that we identify areas for improvement and better align support services. Crucially, we will continue to press ahead with the £40 million digital transformation of paper-based processes.

[Janet Daby]

At the last Defence orals, I stated that claims to the Veterans UK compensation scheme have dropped and rejections have risen compared with a decade ago. The Minister for Armed Forces, the right hon. Member for Wells (James Heappey) said that the Department’s digital programme would address that. Is the Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families concerned about the structural issues with the scheme? I say that because even the independent reviewer has said that the scheme’s process is

“overly burdensome and even distressing for the claimant due to unreasonable timeframes and a lack of transparency.”

I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response.

[Dr Murrison]

I am glad that the hon. Lady has asked that question, because two reviews are under way: the quinquennial review and the review being launched jointly by the Ministry of Defence and the Office for Veterans’ Affairs. I suspect strongly that those reviews will bring forward recommendations to improve processes, but all institutions have to change with time, and this is no different. I am pleased to note that fewer claims are now going to appeal or tribunal, and that is our measure of success. I pay tribute to those who administer such things; they work very hard.

[Stephen Morgan]

Over the past year, the number of veterans claiming universal credit has increased by 50%. How does the Minister plan to help veterans in receipt of universal credit to acquire the skills they need to access well-paid employment?

[Dr Murrison]

Universal credit is an in-work benefit that will affect a small number of service people. The hon. Gentleman will know that we have done everything we can to mitigate cost of living rises. I said in response to the previous question that we have a freeze on accommodation costs, a freeze on food and a contribution to offset increases in council tax. All those things are helping our service personnel at this difficult time. We will continue to do what we can to mitigate those cost of living increases.

[James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)]

One group of veterans to whom a gross injustice was done many years ago is the LGBT community, who until 2001 were court-martialled, shamed and dismissed. That shame is still with them today and has not yet been corrected. The Government perfectly properly commissioned a report by Lord Etherton to look into the whole matter, and I understand it was provided last week. Will the Government undertake to produce that report and make an oral statement to this House to discuss it? Above all, will they give the apology it calls for and accept the need for financial compensation that those veterans deserve?

[Dr Murrison]

I suspect I will be asked the same question on Saturday, when I attend London Pride. The Etherton report has been delivered. It is pretty magisterial, as we would expect from Terence Etherton, with a number of recommendations that we are working through. When we respond, it will be a proper response, and I hope it will satisfy my hon. Friend.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

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[Rachel Hopkins]

The Minister will be pressed again for his response—he will not have to wait until Saturday—because until 2000 it was illegal to be gay in the UK armed forces. The loss of livelihoods and long-term suffering endured by LGBT+ veterans as a result of that cruel and unjust policy has been immense. I am pleased that there is such cross-party agreement about the publication of the report being so important to those who have experienced such injustice, but 18 months on there is still no report and no Government apology. Will the Minister confirm specifically when the report will be published in full, with all testimony, and when we can expect an apology from the Prime Minister for this historic injustice?

[Dr Murrison]

It was this Government who set up the review. This situation was going on from 1967 to 2000, and it was an appalling stain on all of us, so I am really pleased that, at long last, the Government have gripped it. I am afraid that the hon. Lady will have to be a little bit more patient, but I suspect that we will publish the report and a response very soon indeed.

[Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)]

3. What steps he is taking to end the hollowing out of the armed forces.

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[Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford and Eccles) (Lab)]

4. What steps he is taking to issue nuclear test medals to veterans before Remembrance Sunday 2023.

[The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)]

The hon. Lady will welcome the commemorative nuclear test medal announced by the Prime Minister in November last year to recognise service veterans and civilian personnel who participated in the UK’s atmospheric nuclear test programme between 1952 and 1967. The first nuclear test medals are expected to be available this autumn—I hope in time for Remembrance Sunday.

[Rebecca Long Bailey]

A nuclear testing veteran has said:

“We have heard it all before, governments come and go, but the Nuclear Veterans keep fighting, that’s exactly what we did for our country all them years ago, so please, no more false promises just action…award us our medal”.

He speaks for the thousands who were promised medallic recognition by the Prime Minister on 22 November last year. Sadly, they are now informed that the medal has been delayed again by the Government. What is the delay? Why is it happening? Will the Minister categorically promise the House today that those veterans, whose average age is now 85, will finally be awarded their medals before Remembrance Sunday so that they and their descendants can proudly wear them?

[Dr Murrison]

Once again I remind the hon. Lady that it is this Government who got on and made the announcement on 22 November last year. I very much hope that by 22 November the veterans will get their medals. It is my sincere hope that by Remembrance Sunday they will be able to wear proudly what is due to them.

[Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)]

5. What recent steps his Department has taken to provide military support to Ukraine.

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[Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con)]

13. What steps his Department is taking to ensure that the armed forces have the skills required for the future.

[The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)]

Last week, the Ministry of Defence published the Haythornthwaite review of armed forces incentivisation. Rick Haythornthwaite and his team have done an absolutely brilliant job. The MOD is now working out how to implement the recommendations, but I think it true to say that Haythornthwaite addresses our pressing need to build a firm foundation for an increasingly skills-based future in which the MOD will have to compete extremely hard if it is to continue to recruit and retain the very best.

[Mary Robinson]

In February of last year, we were informed that the Ministry of Defence was

“actively considering recruiting people with neurodiversity”.

That will have given hope to many, including a constituent of mine who does not believe that his autism diagnosis should be a barrier to service. Can my right hon. Friend tell me what the status is of those considerations, and will the MOD consider running a pilot scheme so that neurodiverse individuals can be encouraged to give their skills to the armed forces?

[Dr Murrison]

We are very proud of the wide-ranging make-up of our armed forces, which includes many neurodiverse people. The Haythornthwaite review recognises that tomorrow’s defence will be very different from today’s, and that its people will be as well. I agree with the thrust of my hon. Friend’s perceptive question, and anticipate that the skills and attributes that we will need in the future will mean our casting the net much more widely than before.

[Selaine Saxby]

In North Devon, our two military bases, Chivenor and Arromanches, have units specialising in logistics, engineering and unmanned marine technologies. What steps is my right hon. Friend taking to encourage more budding young engineers to fulfil their technical education and work prospects in our armed forces?

[Dr Murrison]

The Ministry of Defence is deeply committed to supporting future engineers both inside and outside the armed forces, and is one of the largest deliverers of UK apprenticeships: we have 22,000 personnel on 100 different apprenticeships at any one time. Furthermore, the Haythornthwaite review and the pan-defence skills framework will take the skilling of our defence people to the next level.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his response. Northern Ireland is one of the leading regions of the United Kingdom that are pushing cyber-security very hard. Has the Minister given any consideration to ensuring that companies that are involved in cyber-security, of which there are many not only in Northern Ireland but in the south-east of England, could work in partnership with the MOD to ensure that the skills to be found in private companies can be used in the Army?

[Dr Murrison]

I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman. I think that in future we will see much more zig-zagging between the armed forces and the industry and back again, and, indeed, Haythornthwaite touches on the subject of so-called zig-zag careers. I expect to see a much closer working relationship between the armed forces and industry in the future: we are all in it together.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

On Armed Forces Day last week, as a nation we thanked our armed forces for their service, and as a nation we rightly invest in the skills of those who serve, but year after year we are seeing more people with essential skills leaving the forces. Satisfaction with service life has plummeted from a recorded high of 61% under Labour in 2009 to 42% today, and among junior ranks it is even lower, at 39%. What is the Minister’s plan to restore morale in order to help to retain the skills that we need in our armed forces, and does he expect armed forces morale to be higher or lower than it is today by the time of the next general election?

[Dr Murrison]

It was a great pleasure to see the hon. Gentleman in Falmouth for Armed Forces Day at the weekend.

The armed forces continuous attitude survey was established in 2007 by the last Labour Government. It is interesting to look back at what the figures were then. There was no Labour nirvana. We find from the 2007 figures that the percentage saying that morale is high or higher is about the same now as in 2007. [Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman may chunter, but these are the facts. The percentage feeling valued has risen significantly, as has the percentage who would recommend their career to a friend. It is hardly surprising that satisfaction with kit, for example, is much better now than it was then. We remember 2007 and the Snatch Land Rovers—coffins on wheels—and we remember, do we not, the appalling kit with which the then Labour Government provided our armed forces in Iraq and then Afghanistan. I think that Labour’s record is nothing to be proud of.

[Tom Randall (Gedling) (Con)]

7. What recent steps his Department has taken to strengthen NATO unity.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

9. What assessment he has made of the adequacy of his Department’s implementation of the lump-sum payments for war widows who previously lost their pensions after remarrying or cohabiting with another partner.

[The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)]

I was delighted to announce the war widows ex gratia payment scheme last month. A specialist team is being stood up to deal with applications and assist and advise widows when the process opens. This will ensure that people are treated with the care they deserve and that their individual needs are met. The scheme will start as soon as possible, and in any event by this autumn, and will be open for two years. It will not erase their loss, but I hope that this payment will offer some comfort to those affected. I again pay tribute to the staunch, dignified campaigning of the War Widows Association, which has brought us to this point; I also pay tribute to my right hon. Friend, who has been absolutely four-square behind the campaign.

[Sir Julian Lewis]

In return, I would like to thank Ministers for persevering with the matter in the face of many obstacles erected by the Treasury. There is just one last hurdle to surmount: the question of taxation of the ex gratia payment. As war widows’ pensions are a recognition of sacrifice and not a benefit, they are not taxed. If this ex gratia payment is taxed, some war widows will get only slightly more than half the lump sum concerned. Will my right hon. Friend use his very best endeavours to avoid that unintended and unfortunate result of an otherwise successful initiative?

[Dr Murrison]

I fully understand the point that my right hon. Friend is making. He will know that the payment was uplifted to take tax into account. I appreciate that it may not be taking care of all tax in many, if not most, circumstances. What I will say to him, without setting any hares running, is that I am having a conversation with colleagues, but I emphasise that it is around how we deal with tax on this payment. I cannot really give him any more comfort than that.

[Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) (Con)]

10. What steps his Department is taking to support the development of innovative defence technologies.

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[Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)]

12. What recent assessment he has made of the adequacy of service accommodation for the armed forces. [905607]

[The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)]

The Ministry of Defence fully recognises the importance of safe, good-quality and well-maintained homes. In the last seven years, the MOD has invested more than £936 million in service family accommodation. That includes £185 million last year on modernising homes, tackling damp and mould and improving thermal efficiency. Currently, 97% of MOD SFA meet or exceed the Government’s decent homes standard. Only those properties are allocated to service families. We strive to do better but, for context, the figure for social housing is 91%.

[Matt Western]

When he has been around various sites, I am sure the Minister will have noticed the substandard quality of accommodation, and indeed squalor in certain cases. He will also know that some 800 armed forces families are living in potentially unsafe homes that have not yet had gas safety checks. Will he confirm what action he and his Government are taking to make those homes safe?

[Dr Murrison]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. On gas and electric safety, my hon. Friend the Minister of State for Defence Procurement was made aware of the issue on 2 May and he worked exceptionally quickly to remedy it. Currently, there are some 555 gas safety certificates outstanding. That number is plummeting dramatically, and almost all of them will be cleared by the end of June, which is a measure of some success.

[Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con)]

If a private or a professional landlord did not properly complete these safety checks, they would be sued. It is completely unacceptable that we put armed forces personnel and their loved ones at risk for months because the Future Defence Infrastructure Services contract that is meant to do that is completely broken. If the head of the Defence Infrastructure Organisation, who is meant to oversee this, is completely out of his depth, which some of us believe he is, after this, should he not consider his position?

[Dr Murrison]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his comments. The important thing is that when my hon. Friend the Minister of State got to know about this, he acted immediately to put the matter right. I am not really interested in getting people’s scalps; I am interested in putting the matter right, and that is exactly what is happening.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Reclaim)]

14. What recent progress he has made on UK participation in the EU permanent structured co-operation project.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tom Randall (Gedling) (Con)]

T5. I was recently invited to visit the Army cadets in Arnold in my constituency, to see the work they are doing and the skills they are learning, from drill instruction to cardiopulmonary resuscitation. I was never a cadet myself, but will my right hon. Friend join me in congratulating Ben Mickle in Arnold and others across Nottinghamshire on the work they are doing in running cadet services, and will he encourage children and young people to take part?

[The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)]

I congratulate staff sergeant Mickle and his fellow instructors. Many of us were out and about for National Armed Forces Day on Saturday and saw some of our wonderful cadets. I pay tribute to all those instructors who put in so many hours to make it all possible.

[Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Streatham) (Lab)]

T4. I have been asking the Prime Minister and other Ministers about Government bodies spying on the activities of British citizens, including politicians, activists and journalists. In a statement issued in 2020 the Ministry of Defence said that the British Army’s information warfare unit, the 77th Brigade,“do not, and have never, conducted any kind of action against British citizens.”However, the Secretary of State said on 30 January that the 77th Brigade scours Twitter “to assess UK disinformation”. Can the Minister clarify whether the 77th Brigade conducts any surveillance actions against British citizens, for what purpose, and whether that is really the best use of its time?

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[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

T9. ACVC Hub, Community Veterans Support and Helping Heroes are three wonderful charities helping veterans in Glasgow South West. Veterans’ mental health is still an emerging field, so will Ministers consider providing a costed research and development plan to find innovative approaches to that vital research?

[Dr Murrison]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the range of mental health support services that are open to our veterans, particularly Op Courage and, he will be interested to note, Op Fortitude. Of course, there is always more we can do, particularly for those who have suffered as a result of their service, but I think it important to say that, in general, service in our armed forces is a positive for mental health, not a negative.

[James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con)]

I accept that we will hear a Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office statement in due course, but given the events over the weekend, what assessment has the MOD made of Ukraine’s ability to win in Ukraine?

[Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)]

The armed forces continuous attitude survey results have just been published. They show that less than a third of personnel believe that their basic pay is adequate, and nearly a quarter are looking to leave the forces. Will the Secretary of State admit that it is high time that he increased basic pay across the public service, but especially for those in uniform?

[Dr Murrison]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Armed Forces Pay Review Body has reported, and that will be released shortly. Pay is part of a wider remuneration package, which includes an excellent non-contributory pension, subsidised accommodation, wraparound childcare, incremental pay, and a range of allowances. The non-financial aspects of the offer are also highly valued. What is not highly valued, frankly, are the tax increases that the SNP introduced in February, which make servicemen in Scotland much worse off than those in the rest of the United Kingdom.

[Mr Speaker]

Robert Courts has gone, so let us have Simon Jupp—he is a man on his feet.

[Simon Jupp (East Devon) (Con)]

The Royal Marines Charity, based in East Devon, helps to provide support to former servicemen and women in Devon, who we celebrated on Saturday as part of Armed Forces Day. What assessment has my right hon. Friend made of the welfare provision for veterans in Devon?

[Dr Murrison]

I am sorry that I was not in Devon on Saturday; I was next door in Cornwall, commemorating our armed forces, as my hon. Friend was.

There is a range of welfare support services in Devon. My hon. Friend will be aware of the regional welfare support operation there, which has expert welfare officers who can look after the needs of our wonderful veterans. Of course we can always do more, but I would cite, as I just have, Op Courage and, now, Op Fortitude, which I think will be of great assistance.

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

While we wait for the upcoming pay review, may I ask what assessment the Minister’s Department has made of relative poverty rates among our service personnel and, while they await a significant pay rise, what work it is doing with the Department for Work and Pensions to signpost colleagues to the benefits that they are eligible for?

[Dr Murrison]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that, in addition to pay, things such as wraparound childcare and subsidised healthcare and dental care are available to members of our armed forces, as well as subsidised accommodation, the freezing of food charges and help with council tax—things that we have done in these difficult times to take the edge off the cost of living crisis. I hope he will welcome that.

[Damien Moore (Southport) (Con)]

Nowhere does events as well as my Southport constituency. This weekend’s Armed Forces Day was truly testament to that fact, so would my right hon. Friend welcome and support an application from Southport to host the national Armed Forces Day in 2025?