Oral Answers to Questions

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Dr Murrison]

I suspect I will be asked the same question on Saturday, when I attend London Pride. The Etherton report has been delivered. It is pretty magisterial, as we would expect from Terence Etherton, with a number of recommendations that we are working through. When we respond, it will be a proper response, and I hope it will satisfy my hon. Friend.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab)]

We are going—

[Mr Speaker]

We will have to wait until Saturday, I think.

[Rachel Hopkins]

The Minister will be pressed again for his response—he will not have to wait until Saturday—because until 2000 it was illegal to be gay in the UK armed forces. The loss of livelihoods and long-term suffering endured by LGBT+ veterans as a result of that cruel and unjust policy has been immense. I am pleased that there is such cross-party agreement about the publication of the report being so important to those who have experienced such injustice, but 18 months on there is still no report and no Government apology. Will the Minister confirm specifically when the report will be published in full, with all testimony, and when we can expect an apology from the Prime Minister for this historic injustice?

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[Mr Wallace]

It is interesting, because of course it was Labour that cut 19 battalions from the Army when I was serving under the hon. Member’s Government. What is important is not just that the Army is the right size but that it is an Army that is properly equipped and able to do its job. Having just numbers and non-equipment leads to the place where we had Snatch Land Rovers in Afghanistan under her Government.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Defence Committee.

[Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con)]

I endorse the words of my Defence Committee colleague, the hon. Member for South Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck). The Secretary of State himself has used the words

“the hollowing out of our Armed Forces”.

Today, the Head of the Army said at the Royal United Services Institute’s land warfare conference that our world is heading back into the 1930s with growing threats. Does the Secretary of State agree that the Treasury’s argument for increasing Defence spending to 2.5% of GDP when the economics improve is not only naive but illogical, because our economy and our national security are one and the same thing? We need to invest in our Army, Air Force and Navy now, not when Britain’s economy improves.

[Mr Wallace]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point about levels of Defence spending. First, spend on the Army is 20% higher since I started as Defence Secretary, and I have made sure that a greater proportion of that spend is on catching up and modernising the armed forces, which had been neglected all the way back to Afghanistan and Iraq, where we were spending money on urgent operational requirements rather than the core budget to modernise that equipment.

On my right hon. Friend’s point about the Treasury, it has accepted—the Chancellor did so at the Dispatch Box—that Defence will require a greater share of public spending. Part of the big challenge is recognition across Government and in Whitehall that the culture has changed, with Defence requiring a greater proportion of spend if it is to defend these shores and indeed our people. That is how it used to be. I am confident that the Prime Minister’s support for 2.5% and the Chancellor’s position puts us on the right path, and of course that could not be needed quicker.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

In January, the Defence Secretary admitted that his Government have “hollowed out and underfunded” our armed forces and, in the past week, a string of senior military figures have agreed. NATO’s second-in-command said that the British Army is “too small”, a former Chief of the Defence Staff said

“The Army is now too weak”,

and another ex-CDS said:

“The hollowing out of warfighting resilience within the Armed Forces has been the single most obvious shortfall…since 2010”.

Will the Defence Secretary halt this hollowing out in his new Defence Command Paper? Will it be published this month, as he has promised?

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[Dr Murrison]

I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman. I think that in future we will see much more zig-zagging between the armed forces and the industry and back again, and, indeed, Haythornthwaite touches on the subject of so-called zig-zag careers. I expect to see a much closer working relationship between the armed forces and industry in the future: we are all in it together.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

On Armed Forces Day last week, as a nation we thanked our armed forces for their service, and as a nation we rightly invest in the skills of those who serve, but year after year we are seeing more people with essential skills leaving the forces. Satisfaction with service life has plummeted from a recorded high of 61% under Labour in 2009 to 42% today, and among junior ranks it is even lower, at 39%. What is the Minister’s plan to restore morale in order to help to retain the skills that we need in our armed forces, and does he expect armed forces morale to be higher or lower than it is today by the time of the next general election?

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[James Cartlidge]

My hon. Friend is a champion of SMEs and makes an excellent point about prompt payment. I can assure him that the MOD has a standard contract term that requires primes to pay suppliers within 30 days. I am informed this is called DEFCON 534. Obviously, it is not to be confused with other uses of the word “DEFCON”, but it is a very important point. Like him, I want to see our SMEs supported.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

When I asked the Minister for Defence Procurement to give a statement on the Sheldon review two weeks ago, he recognised the importance of workers to the defence industry. We have already heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith) about the problems of Morpheus, which I understand is now rated red by the MOD; the problems we had on Ajax are emerging on Morpheus. One of the issues that came out of the Sheldon review was that the company was not listening to the voices of workers on the shop floor. What guarantee is the Minister putting in place to ensure workers have a system for reporting back, so that, when things go wrong, as with Ajax or, potentially, Morpheus, they are reported, listened to and acted upon?

[James Cartlidge]

As I said in the statement, I recognise the unique angle the hon. Gentleman has on this issue, because the factory in question is in his constituency. I stress that the employment of those employees is the legal responsibility of the company. We engage closely with them. One of the lessons learned is about that close engagement at SRO level through Defence Equipment and Support. Andy Start, CEO of DE&S, has led huge change in improving the way we work together. I suspect we will continue to build on the significant improvement the Secretary of State just highlighted, in terms of both cost and timing, between when the Opposition was last in power and now.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson .

[Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP)]

The previous Minister for Defence Procurement impressed many by hitting the ground running. He developed a forensic grip on the manifold issues within this dysfunctional area of defence and he worked up a plan to try to deal with that. Sadly, he moved on before he could implement that plan, so can I ask this latest Minister for Defence Procurement, does he have a plan? What will be the first evidence of that plan that our weary service personnel and taxpayers might see?

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[James Cartlidge]

The hon. Gentleman has ranged a long way, from air to ground. The key element is to strengthen our speed and agility, whatever the platform in question. Some of the platforms he refers to are at a conceptual phase. I am committed to driving pace because, although times are improving overall, ultimately we do not want to have the delays we have had in some notable programmes. We need pace because that is how we maintain our competitive edge against our international adversaries.

[Mr Speaker]

Pacy answers would be helpful as well.

[Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)]

12. What recent assessment he has made of the adequacy of service accommodation for the armed forces. [905607]

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[Mr Wallace]

As the Vilnius summit approaches, it is very important that we recommit, and get other nations to recommit, to the targets and to make sure that 2% is viewed as a floor, not a ceiling. It is regrettable that only seven to eight nations in NATO are reaching that target. Britain is, of course, above the 2%. This is very important, because freedom is not free; we have to pay for it in the end.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister told last week’s Ukraine recovery conference that

“we will maintain our support for Ukraine’s defence and for the counter offensive”.

With the developments in recent days, surely now is the time to accelerate, not just maintain, our military support for Ukraine?

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[Dr Murrison]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Armed Forces Pay Review Body has reported, and that will be released shortly. Pay is part of a wider remuneration package, which includes an excellent non-contributory pension, subsidised accommodation, wraparound childcare, incremental pay, and a range of allowances. The non-financial aspects of the offer are also highly valued. What is not highly valued, frankly, are the tax increases that the SNP introduced in February, which make servicemen in Scotland much worse off than those in the rest of the United Kingdom.

[Mr Speaker]

Robert Courts has gone, so let us have Simon Jupp—he is a man on his feet.

[Simon Jupp (East Devon) (Con)]

The Royal Marines Charity, based in East Devon, helps to provide support to former servicemen and women in Devon, who we celebrated on Saturday as part of Armed Forces Day. What assessment has my right hon. Friend made of the welfare provision for veterans in Devon?