Alex Norris
Main Page: Alex Norris (Labour (Co-op) - Nottingham North and Kimberley)Department Debates - View all Alex Norris's debates with the Home Office
(1 day, 16 hours ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Urgent Questions are proposed each morning by backbench MPs, and up to two may be selected each day by the Speaker. Chosen Urgent Questions are announced 30 minutes before Parliament sits each day.
Each Urgent Question requires a Government Minister to give a response on the debate topic.
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
Mr Angus MacDonald (Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire) (LD)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if she will make a statement on the planned use of MOD barracks to house asylum seekers.
The Minister for Border Security and Asylum (Alex Norris)
The use of hotels to house asylum seekers is a disgrace. As Members on both sides of the House know, it is a practice that became widespread long before this Government entered office, and it is one of the clearest indicators of the shambles that we inherited last summer. People across the country are frustrated, if not furious. We wholeheartedly agree, and that is why since the general election we have been working to address the chronic issues in the asylum system that have been allowed to build up over several years. At their peak under the previous Government, there were 400 hotels in use; now, the number is around 200. That reduction has been achieved despite what the Home Affairs Select Committee has called a “dramatic increase in demand”. Under this Government, decisions on asylum applications are up, as are asylum-related returns, while system costs are down.
However, as my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary has made clear, we must go further and faster. That means moving at pace to fulfil the Government’s commitment to close every asylum hotel. Work to facilitate this exit is ongoing, and the asylum accommodation taskforce is working across Government to deliver alternative asylum accommodation. I can confirm to the House that plans are under way for the temporary use of Ministry of Defence sites at Cameron barracks in Inverness and at Crowborough training camp in East Sussex for the purpose of asylum accommodation. Under the plans, a total of around 900 people will be housed across both sites.
Those two sites are among a number of options that we are looking at as we seek to alleviate the pressure on the system and drive down hotel use, and while this is a complex and fast-moving operating environment, there is a strong understanding within the Home Office of the importance of local engagement. My officials have been engaging directly and regularly in advance of this announcement with the Scottish Government, the relevant councils and local service providers, and will continue to do so. Whatever decisions are made regarding specific locations, we are clear that the impact on communities must be minimised. The safety and security of people living and working in the surrounding areas is paramount.
A crisis of the scale we were left with was always going to take time to correct, but we know that the British people are impatient for change, as are we. This Government will do whatever it takes to end hotel use, fix the broken asylum system, and secure our borders.
Mr MacDonald
I thank the Minister for his answer, and the Speaker for allowing me to ask this urgent question.
I got a call yesterday at 7.10 in the morning from the BBC, who asked, “What is your comment on the Cameron barracks being taken over and used to house migrants?” I know that place well, because I was based there when was in the Army. It is residential—it is surrounded by housing that is very close by—and what is more, it is only 10 minutes from Inverness city centre. I asked for a briefing from the Home Office and got one, which was wonderful. What I learned is that there are going to be up to 309 single male asylum seekers there, who will move in at the end of November. I have a few questions arising from that.
First, why was I not engaged in any discussion? Why were the Scottish Government not engaged in conversation, and why were Highland council and other authorities just informed, rather than engaged, which is the word that the Minister used? Secondly, did Home Office officials consider the fact that the site is in a city centre before they agreed to take it on? Why is it okay to close town centre migrant hotels in the south of England, yet plan to house 300 migrant men in Army quarters in Inverness city centre? It is effectively the same thing. Thirdly, will the Minister meet me to discuss the Home Office halting its plan to utilise Cameron barracks to house migrants?
Alex Norris
I am grateful for those questions, and recognise the anger that the hon. Gentleman has conveyed. I am sorry that he heard in the way he did, and of course I will have that meeting with him. It can be difficult to sequence these things correctly; as all colleagues know, we live in an age of misinformation and disinformation, and trying to sequence who hears what and when can be sticky. Nevertheless, the hon. Gentleman should not have heard in the way he did. The same is true for the hon. Member for Sussex Weald (Ms Ghani), whose duties as Deputy Speaker preclude her from taking part in these proceedings. I recognise the strength of feeling that she has conveyed to me in no uncertain terms about her views and the views of her constituents, and their opposition to these plans. I will continue to engage with the hon. Gentleman and the hon. Lady, and I encourage her local authority also to do so. Again, I recognise the strength of feeling.
Turning to the hon. Gentleman’s other questions, of course the location of the site has been considered. We are looking at all sites in that way; whether it is a hotel or dispersed accommodation, the local context is always considered. I would gently say that both sites have been used recently for the Afghan resettlement scheme, so there is a clear understanding across Government of the capabilities of those sites and their locations.
However, I want to be very clear about what is at stake here. The hon. Gentleman talked about the closure of hotels, and we know that hotels are an exceptionally challenging issue in this country. Too many people come to this country having been sold the dream that they will be housed in a hotel and will be able to work illegally in our economy. Today, we have announced that we have had our best ever year for illegal work raids, with 1,000 people deported as a result, but we have to break the model that says, “You’ll get to live in a hotel and work illegally.” Closing the hotels is a really important part of that work.
Matt Vickers (Stockton West) (Con)
Since this Government entered office, the illegal immigration crisis has gotten seriously worse on every front. The number of people arriving in this country illegally is up, and not just by a little bit; arrivals are up by more than 50% compared with the same period before the election. Before the election, the number of migrants staying in hotels had fallen by 47%. It has now gone up, and fewer of the people breaking into this country illegally on a small boat are being removed.
We are now in a position where the Government are putting forward a proposal that, in opposition, they described as “an admission of failure”. The Defence Minister, the hon. Member for Plymouth Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard), is unable to say whether the plan will save us money or cost us more. We also hear that this proposal will involve accommodation on a site that is directly next to homes provided to the families of our brave armed forces personnel. Have the Government consulted those families about this plan?
All this demonstrates that we need much stronger proposals than the weak efforts the Government are presiding over. That is why we have put forward the borders plan, which goes beyond tinkering with the system. If we want to stop the use of this accommodation, we need to change completely how we approach this problem and ensure that all illegal immigrants are removed within a week. It is a comprehensive plan based on our proposals to leave the European Convention on Human Rights, reform how our asylum system operates, and remove the blockages that have prevented the removal of illegal entrants. It is a proposal that is not only practical, but fair, as those who come to the UK illegally should not be housed at the taxpayer’s expense in ever greater numbers. People need to know that if they break into this country, they will be detained and deported. That is how we will solve this crisis.
I will finish by asking the question we are all wondering: when will the asylum hotels close? Will the Government commit to closing all asylum hotels within a year?
Alex Norris
What an optimistic effort by the hon. Gentleman! He invites us to believe that he and his colleagues have worked out in 14 months how to fix a system that they broke over a period of 14 years. The British public saw through that in July 2024, and I suspect that they will see through it again.
The hon. Gentleman talks about removals. Of course, removals are up—over 35,000 since we took office. When it comes to the question of why we have hotels in the first place, what was the original sin? It was that Conservative colleagues stopped assessing claims. That is why we have hotels, and it is why we have made the efforts to shift the backlog.
The reality is that the system is broken. It is a very simple equation—it is a complicated issue, but a simple equation. We are a very popular country and people want to come here. Of course we are popular—we are the greatest country in the world, with brilliant institutions—but that popularity is also due to the fact that people are sold a dream that they will be able to come here, live in a hotel and work illegally. Until and unless we attack those two fundamental factors, nothing will change. We know that the Conservatives do not oppose the plans we are debating today, because after all, they used two military sites themselves.
Chris Murray (Edinburgh East and Musselburgh) (Lab)
The Home Affairs Committee this week released a report into asylum accommodation and it is utterly damning. In 2019, the Conservative Government bound the country into asylum contracts that have been disastrous for local communities, disastrous for asylum seekers themselves and disastrous for the taxpayer, but they have been brilliant for private providers who have made tens of millions of pounds of profits. It is right that the Government are looking at alternative ways to house asylum seekers that will be better for communities, asylum seekers and the taxpayer. Scotland is a welcoming, tolerant country, and we are willing to play our part, but will the Minister give us assurances that he will learn from the mistakes of the previous Government and work with local communities, local authorities and devolved Administrations to make sure that this works and solves the problems we have seen?
Alex Norris
I have studied that report closely. There have been more than a thousand lessons learned from the previous Government’s attempts to solve this issue. We are taking those in hand to make sure we do it right. My hon. Friend talks about the cost. I am pleased that in our time in office we have reduced the cost to the taxpayer of the asylum system by £1 billion, including £500 million across the hotel estate, but it is clear, including from his Committee’s reports, that we have to go further, and that is what we are doing. We are, within the parameters of the contracts we inherited, sweating things. Where there is money to be recouped, we will recoup that for the taxpayer, but it comes back to the fundamental question that if we want to spend less money on this type of activity, we have to have fewer people in the estate. That starts with breaking the attraction that they have to come to this country.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)
I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.
Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)
We share the Minister’s concern about the approach of the official Opposition. Clearly, they left us with this mess and now they feign outrage. It appears that this Government’s proposal, sadly, is to decant asylum seekers from one kind of unsuitable and costly accommodation to another. Instead, they should be tackling the real issue: speeding up asylum decisions so that those with no right to stay are returned and those with a valid claim can work, pay tax and integrate.
I will pick up the Minister’s point about the difficulty of sequencing communications. As a Member of Parliament who had an asylum hotel opened in his constituency, I was informed several weeks in advance. I offered a much better alternative form of accommodation somewhere else nearby. As I found out, the Home Office was determined to open a hotel, because that alternative was not taken up. The alternative accommodation would have been more appropriate, and my constituency feels let down.
The Government have promised to end the use of hotels by 2029, yet they have put forward no credible plan to achieve that. The Lib Dems have set out a plan for ending hotel use in just six months by declaring a national emergency and setting up Nightingale processing centres to bring down the backlog. Will the Home Secretary match the Lib Dem plan by declaring that national emergency today? Will the Minister confirm whether the plan that he has put forward means speeding up decisions and returning those with no right to stay, or does it simply mean shifting large numbers of asylum seekers from one form of accommodation to another? Will he share what assessment has been made of the relative merits of Army barracks that are in or next to urban areas, as opposed to those in rural areas? Finally, will he concede that cutting overseas development spending will drive more people away from conflict zones to seek safety in Europe and onward unsafely on to boats in the English channel?
Alex Norris
I recognise the spirit with which the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues speak, and I share their zeal. Indeed, I think we can demonstrate it through our actions to speed up decisions. That is why we have made such a significant increase in decision making. Our commitment to speeding up removals is a matter of record. That is why we have seen well over 35,000 people with no right to stay removed since we took office. I gently say to him that as we deal with the backlog left by the Conservatives, we still have a significant cohort of people who will need to be housed and accommodated while their claims are processed.
Additionally, there is an attraction. We see that in the numbers who seek to cross the channel to come here. Until and unless we address that element, the suggestions from the hon. Gentleman alone will not create that deterrent. What we offer today is a significant and real deterrent to break that pull factor. On his point on overseas development, he will know the commitment made by the Prime Minister. We want to return that spending to 0.7% as soon as we can, because it makes a huge impact across the world, and we want to continue to do that.
Dame Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West) (Lab)
I have visited the hotel in Newcastle where up to 400 asylum seekers are living. I have listened to local community concerns. I have spoken to the asylum seekers, the hotel owners, the programme managers, the police, and local stakeholders. It is clear that the policy of housing asylum seekers in hotel accommodation, instituted by the last Government, is failing everybody concerned, except for possibly the private providers profiting from the contracts. Newcastle city council is in discussions with the Home Office about alternative models for accommodation that better meet the needs of the city and of asylum seekers. Can the Minister tell us how those discussions are going and when we can expect to see progress?
Alex Norris
My hon. Friend will know that in the spending review, £500 million was set aside for working with local government to try to identify those exact sites that she is talking about and to bring them forward for use. In the spirit of what the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Max Wilkinson) said, and in the spirit of what other colleagues have said about early engagement, there may well be better ways to build public confidence in what is being provided and that it is in the right locations with the right support. Those conversations with the city of Newcastle are ongoing, and we will be working hard to bring them to a satisfactory conclusion.
Dr Kieran Mullan (Bexhill and Battle) (Con)
Let me begin by making it crystal clear that Madam Deputy Speaker, my hon. Friend the Member for Sussex Weald (Ms Ghani), is doing everything she can to object to proposals to house illegal migrants at the Crowborough training camp in her constituency, just over the border from mine. The site is not suitable. It was previously considered by the Home Office and rejected, but it seems that we now have a council willing, for ideological reasons, to roll over to the suggestion that it is used. Councils can object to these proposals, so what objections has the Green and Liberal Democrat-led Wealden council made to the proposals to use the Crowborough training camp to house hundreds of asylum seekers?
Alex Norris
As I have set out, we have had significant discussions with local authorities. They challenge our assumptions, and they challenge scale and location, as is always the case. Nevertheless, I gently say to the hon. Gentleman that when he says, “No, it is not the right location”, he should be clear about what he is saying yes to. Is he saying yes to the continued use of hotels, or is he simply saying they should be somewhere else? I know those conversations will continue, and I encourage the local authorities to engage with local Members of Parliament.
Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney) (Lab)
I am often asked on the doorsteps what we are doing to tackle this issue. Will the Minister please set out more information on what the Government are doing to stop small boat arrivals in the first place, so that we can close more hotels more quickly?
Alex Norris
My hon. Friend raises the crucial part of the equation. Over the past year, we have made significant inroads in our efforts to disrupt organised crime and the people who use this model to prey on others. We have done 350 disruptions—an increase of 40% on what we inherited. These are embedded gangs who have had a six-year head start on this Government thanks to the Conservatives. That work is vital, but underpinning the gangs’ business model is the attraction of this country. We have to remove the hotels and illegal working to make sure we are not so attractive.
Mr Paul Kohler (Wimbledon) (LD)
My colleague on the Home Affairs Committee, the hon. Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh (Chris Murray) made an excellent point. The asylum accommodation contract signed under the previous Tory Government gifted scandalously high profits to private providers. Frankly, it is a PPE-type scandal. Clearsprings’ profits soared from £6,000 per employee in 2020 to £300,000 per employee in 2024, with its owner Graham King entering the Sunday Times rich list. Vast sums are still being wasted on asylum hotel accommodation under those same flawed arrangements, despite this Government having been in power for 16 months, and the numbers housed in hotels has increased by 8% over the past year. Will the Minister please explain how any new asylum accommodation will be provided in a cost-effective manner that does not allow private companies to make further obscene profits on the backs of the UK’s hard-working people?
Alex Norris
We have to work within the parameters of the contracts that we inherited from the Conservatives, but I can give the hon. Gentleman the assurance that we have reduced that bill by £1 billion, including £500 million from hotels. We are looking further at the profit-sharing elements of those contracts, and are recouping money for the taxpayer by making sure we get the best deal possible.
Torcuil Crichton (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab)
As the Minister pointed out, and as Shaun Fraser, the Labour candidate for Inverness, said yesterday, this situation has arisen because of the broken asylum system that the Labour Government inherited from the Conservatives, but it must be handled sensitively. While I sympathise with my friend, the hon. Member for Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire (Mr MacDonald), given how he heard this news, I must caution him against leaning into language about Army patrols, security fences and the security of young women. As I have said, this must be handled sensitively, and it falls to us all to set a reasoned tone when expressing reasoned concerns.
May I ask the Minister how he will deal with the situation locally, and what talks he will have with Highland council, and other councils, when it comes to dealing with this proposal?
Alex Norris
My hon. Friend has made an important point about the effectiveness of these sites. We have engaged with the local authorities, the health services, the police services and the fire services to ensure that the impact on the community is as light as possible. The experience from Napier barracks and from RAF Wethersfield is that if it is done thoughtfully it can be done well, and that is our commitment.
Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)
My constituents are increasingly concerned about the rising number of houses in multiple occupation. Can the Minister assure me that any overflow from these bases will not lead to an increased reliance on HMOs in our towns and cities, including Walsall, and may I ask what further powers the Government will give councils to protect the private rented sector from being squeezed out as a result of this?
Alex Norris
The right hon. Lady has alighted on an important point. There is, of course, an option open to the Government: if we want to close the hotels, we can simply pull the lever of houses in multiple occupation and change the character of communities across the country, but we are clearly not doing that. We want to find the right balance, and dispersed accommodation is an important tool that local authorities have in relation to people fleeing violence, people with substance abuse and, in this instance, people who are seeking refuge. As I have said, we must find the right balance, and that is the choice. Opposition Members want the hotels to be closed, and they apparently do not want us to use military barracks, having done so themselves. They also do not want us to use houses in multiple occupation. That is an unserious approach to what is a very serious problem.
Jessica Toale (Bournemouth West) (Lab)
The Conservatives left our asylum system in an absolute mess, and now they claim to care about consultation and community impact. Where was that when my community got two asylum hotels more than 10 years ago? This Government, by contrast, are bringing the number down while increasing the number of people with no right to be in the country who are returned, which shows how seriously we take the issue. Can the Minister please tell my constituents what more the Government are doing to close every single asylum hotel?
Alex Norris
I can give that clear message to my hon. Friend’s constituents form the Dispatch Box. We will close every single asylum hotel, as we committed ourselves to doing at the time of the general election.
My hon. Friend has raised an important point, and I acknowledge the shortcomings in this exercise that were raised by the hon. Member for Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire (Mr MacDonald) and also by Madam Deputy Speaker, the hon. Member for Sussex Weald (Ms Ghani). We want to reset the Home Office’s relationship with local government, which is why we have had those conversations, but we need to ensure that local decision makers and local leaders are wired into these decisions earlier so that we can collectively ensure that they are a success.
Graham Leadbitter (Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey) (SNP)
My colleague Shirley-Anne Somerville, the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice in the Scottish Government, wrote to the Secretary of State about this issue on 26 September, seeking an urgent meeting with Highland council and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. No reply to that letter was received, and the first she knew of the decision was when she heard about it on the radio, as many of the rest of us did.
Asylum seekers, by their very nature, are fleeing conflict and persecution. Many require wraparound support, having suffered significant mental and, in some cases, physical trauma. If there is no support package in place, things are not going to go well. The arrival of 300 people in Inverness in such a short space of time puts a huge strain on local services. What is the Minister doing to address those issues with the Scottish Government and with Highland council?
Alex Norris
That point about wraparound support is very important as well. The point of using these sites is that we are able to provide local amenities and vital services for that cohort without having to rely on the local health services. We are having those conversations with health authorities, police and fire services and the local council to ensure that that support is in place, so that, as I said earlier, the impact on the existing community is as light as possible.
Euan Stainbank (Falkirk) (Lab)
I welcome the urgency with which Ministers are seeking to end Tory-created asylum hotel use—which does not work for those fleeing persecution, or for local communities such as those in Falkirk—while also lowering the cost of the asylum system and speeding up processing. Will the Minister elaborate on the criteria that the Department will apply in deciding the sequence of asylum hotel closures, and on how they will be applied fairly and equitably across all the nations and regions of the United Kingdom?
Alex Norris
My hon. Friend tempts me, as he has tempted me on multiple occasions—this time to give him details on the sequence. I know of his vigour in closing hotels in his community. As I have said, we will close every single one of those hotels, and none will be open a day longer than they have to be. My hon. Friend will have to bear with us a little longer in respect of the sequence, but we will be clear about the decisions that we make when we make them.
Mims Davies (East Grinstead and Uckfield) (Con)
Well, what a bolt from the blue! There has been huge concern throughout the Wealden district since the news broke of a “boats to barracks” plan in Sussex. The council leadership urgently needs to speak to local MPs, as do many other councillors, to assuage deep concerns about hundreds of asylum seekers coming to a very rural part of Sussex. Does this simply mean that people living in the Copthorne hotel will move to the barracks? Will the Minister kindly try to work with the Wealden district council leadership, so that public meetings can be held locally to discuss the significant issues that have arisen and the discussions that have taken place? What is happening about the planning process, and the community and police support? Many people need to understand these matters, given the unexpected choice of such a countryside location.
Alex Norris
The hon. Member has raised a number of important questions. Of course we want to work with the local authority to ensure that the public are giving the information and the reassurance that they need; as I have said, there is always a great deal of misinformation and disinformation, and I can give that commitment to her. She will have heard what I said about the timeliness of engagement with colleagues, and I reiterate my sadness in that regard. We will do better for her and her colleagues in securing the answers that they need as leaders in the community. Let me also reiterate, to her and her community, that we intend this to have the lightest possible impact on them. It has been proven to be done at Wethersfield and at Napier, and I have no doubt that we can do it again.
Samantha Niblett (South Derbyshire) (Lab)
The number of boat crossings has risen from 800 in 2018, before we left the European Union, to 40,000 a year because of Brexit. Can the Minister provide some clarity on the measures that he is taking to help solve this immigration crisis at its core, without falling back on yet another fake silver bullet—leaving the European convention on human rights, which some Opposition parties are suggesting—which would get rid of not only the rights of asylum seekers but those of my constituents?
Alex Norris
My hon. Friend has made an important point about the global nature of this challenge—[Interruption.] It is like being at a party you were not invited to at the moment, Madam Deputy Speaker.
My hon. Friend, and other Members, will know of the work that we are doing with France, our most immediate neighbour, and the importance of scaling up our returns pilot. She will also know of our engagement on the continent with regard to organised crime. These are highly sophisticated global networks, and a global response is required to break them.
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)
Will the Minister ensure in future that Members are given some notice of the Government’s plans relating to MOD accommodation? Will he ensure that the gross discourtesy that has been visited on the hon. Member for Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire (Mr MacDonald) in this particular case is not repeated, and that communities may even be able to suggest to the Government alternatives, where alternatives exist? As for the pull factors to which he rightly alluded, will he ensure that accommodation that is offered up by the Ministry of Defence is at the more austere end of the spectrum? It is certainly the case that the men and women of our armed forces, families and veterans are heartily fed up with seeing people not being put in accommodation that apparently is not fit, but that apparently was fit to hold soldiers, sailors and airmen.
Alex Norris
These sites are austere accommodation. The whole point is to change the narrative that is sold to people on social media—that they can come here, live in a hotel and work illegally. The accommodation will be functional and it will be humane, but it will be basic. I can give the right hon. Member that assurance, because the point is exceptionally important.
On the right hon. Gentleman’s point about engagement with colleagues, I hope he will know, from the short time I shadowed him in opposition, that I would never knowingly be discourteous to colleagues—I value colleagues across this place, of all parties and none. I have reflected a lot on what has happened in this case, exactly as he says, and yes, certainly with regard to colleagues, I need to do more directly. I have taken that on board as part of those reflections.
Carla Denyer (Bristol Central) (Green)
The Refugee Council has a clear proposal that would allow the Minister to close asylum hotels within a year without resorting to barracks: a one-off scheme to give a time-limited permission to stay, subject to rigorous security checks, to people from countries that mean they are almost certain to be recognised as refugees if it were not for the backlog. Will the Minister adopt that sensible solution, and also provide safe and legal routes so that people are not pushed into the hands of people smugglers in the first place?
Alex Norris
The hon. Lady mentions an important proposal, and it is a reasonable thing to mention. We are talking about capacity in the system, and one way to resolve that, of course, would be to let significant numbers through the system without processing their claims in the normal way. I cannot support that. As she has heard me say on a number of occasions, the root of this is not just the strong day-to-day administrative running of the system; the reality is that we have managed to really improve the performance of it and reduce costs. But that alone will not stop what is happening, due to the significant pull factor to this country. I believe that doing as she suggests would merely turbocharge that, which I cannot support.
Nick Timothy (West Suffolk) (Con)
The Minister has given us the usual Government lines on returns under this Government, when the majority of them are obviously voluntary returns. When it comes to enforced returns, the numbers are lower than in nine of the 14 years of Conservative Government, and 15% lower than the Tory average.
I want to raise the case of Hadush Kebatu. The Home Secretary said that she had “pulled every lever” to deport him, but when it emerged that he was paid £500 after threatening to disrupt his departure, we were told that was actually an operational decision. Can the Minister confirm that Kebatu withdrew his asylum claim and forfeited appeal rights, and admit that we will not be able to deport foreign criminals in sufficient numbers unless we cut off the endless routes for human rights claims and legal appeals?
Alex Norris
I can say to the hon. Gentleman that returns are up by more than 10% under this Government. I think the British public care about that. I make no apology for doing that in the quickest, cheapest and most expeditious way, which is what we pursue in many cases.
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point about Hadush Kebatu, a convicted sex offender who had no place on our streets and no place in our country; it is right that he has been removed. He was forcibly deported and a team of five escorts accompanied him on that flight. We turned down an application regarding the facilitated return scheme—which, under successive Governments, has offered grants of up to £1,500—but, given the very real threats to disrupt the flight, an operational decision was taken to provide a £500 payment. That was taken because the alternative would have been slower and more expensive for the taxpayer, and it would have included detention, a new flight and, no doubt, subsequent legal claims. That decision was not taken at the ministerial level, but I am not going to second-guess what is a difficult operational environment.
Sorcha Eastwood (Lagan Valley) (Alliance)
This is a really difficult issue. The Minister spoke about people wanting to come to the UK because they had a dream. I want to be clear: I welcome people who want to come to the UK and live in a way that is reflective of our values, but so often we ask the most of communities who have the least. Does the Minister agree that the continued use of public money for asylum hotels poses a risk not just to our politics, but in terms of value for public money and social cohesion?
Alex Norris
I would start by saying that I share the hon. Lady’s spirit on that, and I believe that the British public do too. Whether it is regarding Syrian refugees, Homes for Ukraine, the Afghan resettlement scheme, or British nationals overseas, the British public meet the moment when people need shelter, and show extraordinary capacity for compassion. But there has to be a limit on that, exactly as she says. I can assure her that we will break the pull factors, so that those who do not have a legitimate claim—more than half of those assessed do not have a legitimate reason—will no longer have a reason to come. In the meantime, in exactly the spirit of what she said regarding public confidence, we have removed £1 billion of spending from this area for exactly that reason.
Richard Foord (Honiton and Sidmouth) (LD)
The UK is spending a fifth of its official development assistance budget on hotel bills. Some of that money was previously used to prevent conflict and to help refugees find refuge in their own regions. I served with an Army training regiment at Crowborough, one of the two sites, and I consider that if it was good enough for us, it is good enough for some of the refugees who are seeking asylum. But can the Minister assure the House that this move to use decommissioned barracks will cost taxpayers less than hotels currently do?
Alex Norris
The reality is that the unit cost per night is broadly similar. The point is that we have to reduce the number of people in that accommodation. That is how we get value for the taxpayer and how we will not need the accommodations at all.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Minister for his answers and his dedication to finding the answers that we need. While it was good to hear that there is a plan to house asylum seekers more cost-effectively, the Government must ensure that those areas do not become states within this state. What steps have been taken to ensure that law and order is upheld in any designated large areas, such as those proposed by the Minister?
Alex Norris
I am grateful for that question, and I would start by acknowledging the hon. Gentleman’s Herculean work throughout my time in Parliament, and before, regarding Christians persecuted abroad, so that people do not have to leave their homes. That is important work, and that opinion is shared across this place. I want to be clear: the rule of law has primacy; it is absolute in this country, and it is the same for all of us. People who come here and want to make their homes here, as the hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sorcha Eastwood) said, must embed themselves into communities, reflect our values and behave in those ways.
Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con)
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. We have just been debating the important matter of asylum seekers in MOD accommodation. Could you confirm, as I hope Hansard will, that in the nearly 37 minutes that we have spent debating this important matter, no Member of Reform has been in the Chamber or, indeed, made any contribution whatsoever?