Oral Answers to Questions

Torsten Bell Excerpts

Monday 3rd February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Neil Duncan-Jordan (Poole) (Lab)]

2. What steps she is taking to increase take-up of pension credit.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Torsten Bell)]

In recent months, the Department has run the biggest ever pension credit take-up campaign, across TV, radio and online. Some 150,000 pension credit claims were made in the 16 weeks following the winter fuel payment announcement, and the campaign continues. This week, new work to invite all pensioners newly receiving housing benefit to claim pension credit will begin.

[Neil Duncan-Jordan]

I thank the Minister. The latest figures show that at least 800,000 pensioners are eligible for pension credit but do not claim it, which means they have now also lost out on the winter fuel payment that they previously would have enjoyed. Does the Minister think that means-testing is working?

[Torsten Bell]

It is important that 1.5 million pensioners will receive the winter fuel payments this winter. The statistics my hon. Friend refers to relate to previous years, before the recent take-up campaign. However, he is right to highlight that under the Conservative Government, three in 10 eligible pensioners were missing out.

[Tom Gordon (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (LD)]

In recent days and weeks, household bills across my constituency have gone up and up and up. Many who miss out on pension credit because they are just above the cut-off will now be wondering where they will find that extra money. Will the Government think again about the removal of the winter fuel payment and ensure that pension credit is rolled out on a taper?

[Torsten Bell]

It is important that we keep driving up the take-up of pension credit, but that is not the only support available to pensioners: everyone will see the state pension rise by over 4% this April; the household support fund is very important and will be extended for another year; and the warm home discount is available to the poorest pensioners.

[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

Government figures show that an additional 42,500 households have claimed pension credit, yet that is only about 5% of all those eligible who were not claiming it. As constituency MPs, we are having to support people who are really struggling with the cold and their financial balances. Will the Minister think about setting up a pensioner poverty taskforce, so we can really get underneath the issues facing older people?

[Torsten Bell]

I am sure that all Members, on both sides of the House, are providing support to their constituents—pensioners, those of working age and children—to ensure they can cope following a difficult few years for everyone because of the cost of living crisis. On pensioner poverty specifically, it is important that we update our understanding of how that has developed. If we look at the record, we see that pensioner poverty halved under the previous Labour Government, but rose by 300,000 under the Tory Government over the past 14 years.

[Gideon Amos (Taunton and Wellington) (LD)]

Those on the guaranteed element of pension credit receive the warm home discount, but many do not. Following the changes made a couple of years ago, linking the warm home discount to the age and size of a property, have the Government made any assessment of how many people have been affected the double whammy of losing the warm home discount and the winter fuel payment?

[Torsten Bell]

I have heard the hon. Gentleman’s comment and will raise it with the responsible Minister in the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero, but it is important that all pensioners who are entitled to support get it. That is what the Government are focused on.

[Mr Andrew Snowden (Fylde) (Con)]

3. What assessment she has made of the potential implications for her policies of recent trends in the unemployment rate.

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[Lincoln Jopp (Spelthorne) (Con)]

6. If she will make an assessment of the potential impact of the Pensions Regulator on economic growth.

[The Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Torsten Bell)]

The Government are looking across the piece at how the important work of our regulators supports economic growth, and the Pensions Regulator, which oversees the third largest pension system in the world, is no exception to that.

[Lincoln Jopp]

The then pensions Minister, Guy Opperman, said that green-lighting defined benefit pension superfunds was his greatest achievement of lockdown. The unelected Governor of the Bank of England then unhelpfully intervened and said that superfunds would be a risk to financial stability, and as a result the Pensions Regulator has authorised only one pension superfund to come into existence. Can the Minister be a little more specific and tell us what exactly he is going to get the Pensions Regulator to do differently in order to support the growth mission?

[Torsten Bell]

That is an important question. The Pensions Regulator does recognise its important role in supporting growth; indeed, it has statutory duties not just to protect savers but to minimise the impact on the growth of employers. Superfunds have an important role to play in ensuring that we have larger pension funds that are able to invest in a wider range of assets. As the hon. Gentleman says, on an interim basis the Pensions Regulator has authorised one such fund, but we will take measures in the pension schemes Bill to make further progress in this regard.

[Patrick Spencer (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)]

7. What assessment she has made of the potential impact of means-testing the winter fuel payment on levels of pensioner poverty.

[Sir Ashley Fox (Bridgwater) (Con)]

22. What assessment she has made of the potential impact of means-testing the winter fuel payment on levels of pensioner poverty.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Torsten Bell)]

This Government have run the biggest ever take-up campaign on pension credit, which is worth around £400 on average to those eligible. It also opens the door to extra support and means that 1.5 million pensioners will continue to receive the winter fuel payment. The modelled impact of the decision to target the winter fuel payment at those who need it most does not account for the measures that this Government are taking to raise pension credit take-up.

[Patrick Spencer]

There is no doubt that the cut to the winter fuel payment has hit Suffolk hard. NHS Suffolk reported that 97% of beds were occupied over the Christmas period due to a spike in cold, flu and pneumonia-like symptoms. Kesgrave community centre has set up warm rooms for impacted pensioners. The only good news is that the Suffolk Community Foundation has managed to raise £100,000 to support pensioners across our community who are impacted by the cut. Will the Minister join me in paying tribute to the Suffolk Community Foundation for being there for the most vulnerable people in our society when his Government were not?

[Torsten Bell]

This Government and the important charity that the hon. Gentleman mentions are here for the most vulnerable pensioners. That is why we are targeting the winter fuel payment at those who need it most, and why we will uprate all the state pension elements by over 4% this April. He raises the case of the national health service and how important it is to older generations, but it is his party that drove the NHS into the ground over the last 14 years.

[Sir Ashley Fox]

Labour-controlled Bridgwater town council is increasing its council tax precept by 40%. That means that pensioners in my constituency are suffering from not only the loss of their winter fuel allowance, but an enormous tax rise. What advice does the Minister have for those of my constituents who do not qualify for pension credit, and who now face the loss of the winter fuel allowance from this Government and a huge tax rise from their Labour council?

[Torsten Bell]

I encourage all pensioners to consider whether they are eligible for pension credit, but also to look for the wider support that can be provided via the household support fund and the warm homes discount. I say gently to the hon. Member that the driving up of council tax bills is a direct result of the destruction of local government finances by the Conservative party over 14 years.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

[Helen Whately (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)]

I welcome the Minister to his place. I have a simple question for him: how many people are still waiting for their winter fuel payment?

[Torsten Bell]

The largest campaign to drive up pension credit take-up is now under way, and it will continue in the years ahead. What we are seeing at present is that anyone who made their claim for pension credit before 21 December will receive their winter fuel payment when that claim is processed.

[Helen Whately]

So the answer is that the Minister does not know. He does not know how many people are waiting for their winter fuel payment. He does not know how many people are stuck in the pension credit backlog. He does not know when they will hear about their claims. He does not know who has had help from their local council. He does not know how many people who lost their winter fuel payment have ended up in hospital this winter. He and his Department have dodged or refused to answer every single one of those questions in recent weeks. Will he commit to a full review of the winter fuel payment cut so that we can get those answers?

[Torsten Bell]

I will commit to fighting every day to avoid a repeat of the exercise under the last Government whereby pensioner poverty rose by 300,000, having fallen by 1 million under the last Labour Government. We will make sure that we publish details of the take-up of pension credit by the end of February.

[Katrina Murray (Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch) (Lab)]

8. What steps she is taking to support people with disabilities and long-term health conditions into work.

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[Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)]

I was pleased to hear that Labour councillors on Hull city council have voted to condemn the Government’s shameful decision not to compensate WASPI women. Has that given the Minister pause for thought?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Torsten Bell)]

I recognise the strength of feeling on this issue right across the House. We carefully considered the ombudsman’s report, but as the hon. Member knows, we do not think it is fair to provide compensation costing up to £10 billion when 90% of affected pensioners knew that the state pension age was rising, and the evidence shows that letters being sent earlier would have made little difference.

[Danny Beales (Uxbridge and South Ruislip) (Lab)]

T4. This week marks Time to Talk Day, the Mind campaign to destigmatise talking about mental health. In light of this, will the Secretary of State join me in calling for employers up and down the country to take part in Time to Talk Day and outline what more could be done to end mental health stigma in the workplace?

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Torsten Bell)]

I thank the hon. Member for raising that case and I would be happy to meet her to go into a bit more detail. That is exactly why we make sure the pension credit threshold rises in line with the basic state pension through the triple lock.

[Damien Egan (Bristol North East) (Lab)]

During covid, assessments for personal independence payments were moved either online or to over the phone. Today less than 5% of those assessments have returned to face-to-face, so what assessment have Ministers made of that change and are there any links with the rise in fraud?