Shipyards: Economic Growth

Sarah Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 18th March 2025 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Jardine. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Glenrothes and Mid Fife (Richard Baker) on securing such an important debate. I thank him for quoting Donald Dewar in the first speech of the Scottish Parliament in 1998. I worked in an office next to Donald Dewar for a couple of years and he was an incredible man. He also said in that speech:

“We are fallible. We will make mistakes. But we will never lose sight of what brought us here: the striving to do right by the people of Scotland; to respect their priorities; to better their lot; and to contribute to the commonweal.”

The debate this afternoon has shown that many Members are carrying on in that spirit and acting in that way on behalf of their constituents.

One of the first issues that crossed our desks when we came to power last July was the challenge with Harland and Wolff. We were faced with a dilemma: if we had, as the shadow Minister suggested, thrown money immediately at the problem, we would have been throwing good money after bad. That was clear to anybody who had any sight of what was happening, but it was also clear that we were in a perilous position and we wanted to make sure that the Government could do whatever they could to save all four yards. There was a big push, for a number of reasons including the contracts that existed, to think about Belfast, and not to think about the four yards together.

A collective piece of work was done in which I played a small part and my hon. Friends the Members for Glenrothes and Mid Fife and for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Torcuil Crichton), who has the Arnish port in his constituency, as well as the Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland, Scotland and Defence and my boss the Secretary of State for Business and Trade, played a large part. They all wanted to make sure we could do some kind of deal. When I was sat in the Ministry of Defence with Navantia, we were scratching our heads and thinking, “What on earth needs to be done here?” It was a big piece of work, with a lot of hard work around the clock from officials. The Prime Minister intervened because he saw the importance of this good piece of work. My hon. Friend the Member for Glenrothes and Mid Fife made the important point that we did not want to do this work out of a sense of charity. It was because the people at Methil, in his case, are enormously skilled, offering the possibility of future contracts and operations.

We did not see it as charity; we saw it as protecting the talent we have in this country, and wanting to see it grow. When I had the privilege of going to Methil to meet and talk to some of the 200 workers, 50 of whom are apprentices, it was apparent that this was a place—though cold—where we built the things that defined the 20th century, and can also be where we build the things that will define the decades to come. It is important to keep that in mind.

I want to touch on an issue many hon. Members raised about the Scottish Government, procurement and the award going to a Polish shipyard. I was talking to my hon. Friend the Member for Inverclyde and Renfrewshire West (Martin McCluskey) about that earlier today. He questioned why Poland had been chosen over Port Glasgow, which was a good question to ask. I know Anas Sarwar has also been asking questions. I heard the intervention about phase 2, and perhaps there is something to be pulled and gained from this, though what has transpired is a shame.

There is a question about procurement, which both we and the Minister for Defence Procurement are looking at. We will keep doing that, including considering the Procurement Act 2023. I will soon be talking to that Minister, not only in this area but on steel, to see what more we can do.

[Jamie Stone]

I thank the Minister for giving way. On that point, I do not know how well I can put this. In building offshore structures, different bits can be built in different places, but they would come to Invergordon to be amalgamated, hence the £55 million Government investment. Could the same principle apply of looking at the rules, to ensure that the different bits are built in Methil or Ardersier, rather than being built abroad? Because that is our fear, that they may be made far away in somewhere such as Poland or Korea.

[Sarah Jones]

I thank the hon. Member for that intervention. He mentioned the importance of the £55 million that has gone to Cromarty Firth. Of course, we need to ensure, when looking at supply chains in whatever the industry, we do what we can to rebuild British jobs. In quite a few of our manufacturing industries over recent years, we have seen a slow decline, which we are keen to turn around.

I am working on the steel strategy, where we have a £2.5 billion fund that we committed to in the general election, on top of the £500 million that will be going, if delivered, to the Port Talbot work with Tata. That is a lot of taxpayers’ money; we want to ensure we are spending it wisely and that we are using the levers of Government, whether in procurement or other matters, to ensure that we are building as much as we can in the UK. We obviously have to be cognisant of laws around procurement and need to look at it carefully. It is an ambition of the Government that we make things in the UK and use supply chains here as much as possible.

I am sorry about the decision that was made in Scotland. I am also sorry that there is no one here from the SNP to make their case. We will do what we can with procurement to ensure we make the right decisions. We talked about shipbuilding and shipyards and the importance—

[John Grady]

On the topic of SNP Members being away—perhaps they are all listening to “Desert Island Discs”, although one would not reach the desert island if the SNP were in charge—many of my constituents have family, friends and loved ones on the Scottish islands, but at many times of the year they have terrible difficulty going to see them because of the appalling ferry service. That is because the age of the fleet has increased significantly during the 18 years that the SNP has been in power and the reliability of the vessels is down, which damages businesses, people trying to go to hospitals or travelling, and industry on those islands. Does my hon. Friend agree that the way the SNP has managed the ferry service in Scotland over the last 18 years is utterly contemptible?

[Sarah Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention and I will bow to his wisdom as to why and how that situation has transpired, but for sure the ferry service is crucial for people’s lives, wellbeing and health. As my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight West (Mr Quigley) said, a ferry service is not just about identity; it is also about basic necessities and lifelines. So, I agree with my hon. Friend that there does not appear to have been good management of the ferries by the SNP, but sadly we are not overly surprised by that.

There were lots of good contributions to the debate about the role that shipbuilding can play and about some of the issues that we need to look at. We have talked a lot about defence. I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Glenrothes and Mid Fife, who secured this debate, has about 350 workers in his constituency who work for Babcock and we are really pleased that the Government have committed to the 2.5% spending on defence going up to 3%. I have talked to the Minister for Defence Procurement and Industry, and of course we all think that the increase in defence spending presents an opportunity to do more here in the UK. I am working with colleagues to make sure that we get that right.

The whole point of the industrial strategy, which the Conservative party was ideologically opposed to, is to bring together the things that we do really well and ensure that all the levers of Government are tilted in the direction of turbocharging those sectors. Defence is one of those sectors, but historically defence has sort of worked to one side and everybody else has worked to another side. We are trying to bring those two together a bit, so that civil and defence can work together, learn with each other and prioritise all that activity from Government, to make sure that, as I say, we are turbocharging those eight sectors, one of which is defence.

There was a lot of talk about apprenticeships. The spokesperson for the Opposition, the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire, talked about the apprenticeships that were set up under the last Government. Sadly, the apprenticeship levy does not work for a lot of people and we have shortages in professions such as welding. Indeed, welders have been on the Migration Advisory Committee list of people who we can procure from other countries because we are not training enough of our own. So, to see those welders in Methil learning their trade was a great thing. It was also great to hear the senior managers at Navantia talk to me about welding, because they actually know about shipbuilding and welding; they have real expertise. That was really encouraging.

We are reforming the apprenticeship levy, we are talking about how we can ensure that companies invest more in apprenticeships, and we are again looking at how we can tilt the whole skills regime towards the professions that we know we will need in the future. Engineers, welders and electricians are all on the list of the professions we need to boost in the future.

Members also talked about the opportunity provided by offshore wind and the green economy, as it were, more widely. As has been said already, Navantia plans to make Methil the centre of excellence for offshore wind manufacturing. There is also green shipbuilding, which is a burgeoning industry, and there is the whole infrastructure of monopiles and floating jackets—all of those possibilities—as well. I have also talked to the industry about the opportunities to lead the way in autonomous systems and robotics.

When we pull together the industrial strategy, the defence spending, our reforms to apprenticeships and our prioritisation of funding, including the Cromarty Firth example, the National Wealth Fund—with £5.3 billion for clean, green energy in five groupings, one of which is ports—and the clean industry bonus, which is another opportunity to support growth in this sector, it is clear that the Government have a plan. That has been lacking in previous years, but we are not afraid to roll up our sleeves and get things done. We are all invested in the shipbuilding industry for reasons relating to the past and, more importantly, the future.

The hon. Member for West Dorset (Edward Morello) talked about women in boatbuilding. I spend quite a lot of time with a lot of men in the industries I work with. That was a good point, well made.

My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow East (John Grady) made a good point about the importance of spending taxpayers’ money wisely in this space and not throwing good money after bad. I have talked about that already. We need to back winners and use that money as wisely as we can.

I thank the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) for his kind words. He made the point that shipbuilding used to employ tens of thousands of people, but now it employs hundreds to a couple of thousand. We are realistic about that. We are talking about a smaller industry because of the changing nature of how ships are built, but it is still very important.

My hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Irene Campbell) talked about procurement, which I have touched on already—it is very important. It is nice that my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow West (Patricia Ferguson) saw the electric ferry bought in Norway, for Norway, but that speaks to a point that we are all looking at: we want do more in the UK.

My hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight West said that shipbuilding is a lifeline, a kind of identity and an opportunity for economic growth. I agree with that, of course.

My hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Alison Hume) mentioned Captain Cook and the Endeavour. I did not know about that, but I now do. She talked about skills and apprenticeships, which I have touched on. She is absolutely right that they are very important.

This is an incredibly important area for the Government. We have put our money where our mouth is and are ready to do what needs to be done. The industrial strategy, the apprenticeship work and the defence spending present huge opportunities for the future, and I look forward to working with everyone here to deliver them.

Oral Answers to Questions

Sarah Jones Excerpts

Thursday 13th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Shaun Davies (Telford) (Lab)]

2. What steps he is taking to support manufacturing in the west midlands.

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

It was a good night for Villa fans last night, so I congratulate anyone in the west midlands who supports the club, as my husband does.

The west midlands, in many ways, leads the country on manufacturing, and it has one of the UK’s largest specialist workforces. Whether in automotive, aerospace or the rail supply chain, it is an incredibly important area. We have invested in the west midlands investment zone—Made Smarter, the High Value Manufacturing Catapult; it is all there—but we want to keep breaking down barriers to growth in the area, which is why advanced manufacturing is such a key part of the industrial strategy that we will announce soon.

[Shaun Davies]

In Telford and the wider west midlands, we have a strong and proud British manufacturing base, as the Minister has just outlined. One of the biggest challenges that I hear from businesses is the uneven playing field between us and the rest of the world on pay rates and regulation. Clearly, no one wants a race to the bottom, so will the Government back British business to ensure that we sell more, make more and do that in the west midlands and in Telford in particular?

[Sarah Jones]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right; we do not want a race to the bottom. Advanced manufacturing jobs in the west midlands are well paid for a reason: there is a very highly skilled workforce and we want to protect and grow that. He is right that there is more that we can do. Some £2 billion was set aside in the Budget for the automative sector and just shy of £1 billion for aerospace. That will help; however, we can further reduce the barriers, whether around regulation, planning or trading and export, and we are working as fast as we can to do just that.

[Sir Gavin Williamson (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge) (Con)]

In Staffordshire and the west midlands, we are the only part of the country that is a net exporter of manufactured goods. The threat from Trump on tariffs could have a significant impact on manufacturers right across Staffordshire and the west midlands. What action are the Government taking to ensure that we will continue to export our world-leading products?

[Sarah Jones]

The right hon. Gentleman is right that the west midlands is a big exporter to many different countries, including the US and others. Of course, we will keep talking with the US, as the Secretary of State has been doing, and will ensure that we are standing up for British industry and doing the right thing.

[Callum Anderson (Buckingham and Bletchley) (Lab)]

3. What steps his Department is taking to improve the regulatory environment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve Race (Exeter) (Lab)]

T2. The south-west has a huge number of innovative start-up and scale-up businesses, but we attract only about 3% of private equity and venture capital funding per year. What is the Department doing to ensure that foreign direct investors are aware of, and have access to, the fantastic business infrastructure opportunities that we have in Exeter and across the south-west?

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

I saw many incredible businesses when I went to the Exeter business park last year. When I was in Saudi Arabia in January, I was with a range of businesses that were promoting investment, including many from the south-west. There is more that we can do, but there are some brilliant people there who are doing brilliant things. I think we can go further, and I am certainly very happy to work with my hon. Friend on that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Jones]

My hon. Friend asks a very good question. I am very pleased that the Department for Transport today launched the new UK bus manufacturing expert panel. We need to support our bus manufacturing, both for the transition to net zero and for building our businesses in the UK. I am very happy to work with him on that.

North Sea Energy

Sarah Jones Excerpts

Thursday 6th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

With permission, I would like to make a statement about this Government�s plans to unleash the North sea�s clean energy future.

For almost half a century, the workers, businesses and communities of the North sea have powered our country and the world. We believe that they can and will continue to do so for the next half a century and beyond, which is why yesterday, we launched a consultation on the steps we are taking to seize the opportunities of the clean energy transition in the North sea. This is about working with businesses, workers and communities to strengthen north-east Scotland�s status as the energy capital of the UK, and it is about showing global leadership as we deliver a well-managed, orderly and prosperous transition.

We know that the North sea is a maturing basin. Oil and gas production has seen a natural decline of 72% between 1999 and 2023, and as a result, the industry has lost around a third of its direct workforce over the past decade. The truth is that sprinting to clean energy is the only way to deliver energy security and good, long-term jobs for the workforce and for communities. At the same time, we know that we need to listen to the science on what is required to keep global warming to 1.5�C. A science-aligned approach to future oil and gas production is the only way to deliver climate security for future generations, so we owe it to the North sea�s workers and communities�who have done so much for our country�to come up with a proper plan for the future. That is what this Government are doing.

First, we are consulting on our manifesto commitment not to issue new licences to explore new fields. While we have always been clear that oil and gas will continue to play an important role for decades to come, the reality is that new licences for oil and gas awarded in the past decade have made only a marginal difference to overall production. To continue granting them would not help our energy security, would not be compatible with our climate commitments, and would not take one penny off bills. As such, we will not award new licences, but we will continue working with the sector to manage existing fields for the entirety of their lifespan. We will also provide the long-term certainty on its fiscal landscape that the sector needs. Yesterday, the Treasury set out plans for a new regime to respond to future spikes in oil and gas prices once the energy profits levy ends in 2030.

The second part of the consultation is about harnessing the North sea�s unique strengths, including its offshore infrastructure, highly skilled engineers and deep supply chains, to make it a global clean energy powerhouse. In just eight months, we have already made significant progress. We have established Great British Energy in Aberdeen, so that it is in the perfect position to drive the roll-out of clean energy projects. We have improved the offshore wind auction, so that later this year there will for the first time be a new clean industry bonus to reward investment in good manufacturing jobs and clean supply chains. We have overseen a record-breaking renewables auction. We have kick-started the UK�s carbon capture and hydrogen industries�the energy sectors of the future�with strong, early investments. Just yesterday, we awarded more than �55 million to the port of Cromarty Firth for upgrades that will support the development of floating offshore wind, creating hundreds of jobs as we ensure Scotland and the UK remain world leaders in this next-generation technology. But that is just the start.

Our clean power action plan will drive �40 billion a year of investment to meet our goal of clean power by 2030. Research shows that jobs in offshore renewable sectors could increase by tens of thousands in that time. We will also make sure workers have the tools they need to take up these new opportunities. Already, we have worked with the Scottish Government and trade bodies to launch a skills passport, making it easier and quicker for oil and gas workers to bring their skills and experience into clean energy jobs. That idea has been stuck in the mud for years. Thankfully, we have made more progress in the past eight months than was made in the previous 14 years combined. At the same time, we are putting clean energy at the heart of our upcoming modern industrial strategy.

We are incredibly fortunate to have the North sea on our doorstep. For decades, the oil and gas buried there have fuelled development and charged our economy, but the North sea�s long-term future lies in its incredible clean energy potential. We know that its stable winds and shallow shelves make it one of the best locations in the world for offshore wind farms. We know that the UK continental shelf alone has enough capacity to store up to 78 billion tonnes of carbon, which is roughly the amount this country has produced since the industrial revolution. With our skilled offshore industry and workforce, we are perfectly placed to seize this natural advantage and get ahead in the global race for new jobs in new industries.

Instead of sticking our head in the sand and avoiding the big decisions, we have set out a plan to deliver the future that the North sea�s workers and communities deserve. It is a plan to co-ordinate the scale-up of clean energy industries, from offshore wind and hydrogen to carbon capture and storage; a plan to give the oil and gas sector the support and clarity it needs to continue operating for decades to come; a plan for energy security and sustainable economic growth; and a plan to keep working with the people who matter most�the North sea�s businesses, workers, communities and trade unions� to take advantage of the tremendous opportunities of the years ahead together. I commend this statement to the House.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Andrew Bowie (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (Con)]

I thank the Minister for advance sight of her statement.

Another day, another demonstration of this Government�s total ignorance of our oil and gas industry and the north-east of Scotland, their incompetence on the economy and their disregard for the hundreds of thousands of workers in our North sea, as well as their dangerous ineptitude when it comes to our energy security. No other country in the world, especially at a time of heightened global instability and volatility, would actively choose to aggressively and at pace shut down its domestic oil and gas industry, but that is exactly what this Government and in particular this Department, led by the eco-warrior in chief, are doing.

The consultation, announced yesterday, was trumpeted by Government spinners as the beginning of the end of the energy profits levy and a brave new dawn for the North sea. It is complete and utter rubbish. It is a total joke. The energy profits levy is higher now than it was before, because of the decisions of this Labour Government. The investment allowances have almost all been scrapped by this Labour Government. Crucially, the windfall tax is now in place for far longer�until 2030�because of this Labour Government. That is five years away, but the oil and gas industry does not have five years. Investment is drying up, and work is being put on pause. Companies are literally shutting up shop.

The truth is that the high-paid, good, long-term jobs that the Minister speaks of do not yet exist in renewables in the north-east of Scotland. People are leaving in their droves for other countries, such as the USA, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Qatar and Norway, where the industry does have a future. She says we owe it to the North sea�s workers and communities to come up with a proper plan for their future, but this Government�s plan for the North sea is simply to shut it down. This Government�s plan is a betrayal of those workers. This Government�s plan will devastate the communities of the north-east of Scotland.

It is said that in every oil-producing country in the world you will find an Aberdonian. It turns out that the only country in which you will not find an Aberdonian working in oil in the near future is Scotland, driven by this mad rush to clean power 2030 and the Government�s obsession with renewables at the expense of everything and everyone else. It may be �Drill, baby, drill� in the United States, but it is �Dole, baby, dole� under Labour in the United Kingdom. The Government�s decisions will cost our economy some �12 billion in lost tax revenue to the Treasury, on top of the �12 billion in lost capital investment. This makes a complete mockery of their claim to be anything like pro-growth.

It is insanity to be doing all this to our own industry while becoming increasingly reliant on imports from abroad and causing more carbon to be released into the atmosphere: more imports of liquefied natural gas, fracked in the USA, frozen and then shipped across the Atlantic on diesel-chugging ships; or more imports from Norway, a net exporter, which is drilling from the very same sea from which we could drill ourselves. It is completely nonsensical. This Government are a complete joke, overseeing the wilful deindustrialisation of our nation. If the Minister will not take my word for it, perhaps she will take the word of the GMB leader, who said:

�In the new geopolitical reality�it�s madness. If the North Sea is being prematurely closed down and we are increasing import dependence�that�s bad for jobs, economic growth and national security.�

Or perhaps she will take the word of the general secretary of Unite, who said:

�we need to resist any calls that amount to offshoring our carbon responsibilities for the sake of virtue signalling.�

May I ask the Minister whether she has personally met any oil and gas workers since taking office, in order to understand what her Government�s policy means for them and their families, and whether the Secretary of State has done so? Will the industry receive an answer on the uncertainty surrounding the calculation of scope 3 emissions and environmental impact assessments? Given the announcement of �200 million to support the 400 workers affected by the closure of Grangemouth, how much does the Minister think the Treasury might need to find to support the 200,000 workers currently supported by the oil and gas industry? Does she agree with the Climate Change Committee that we will need oil and gas until at least 2050, and has she accounted for the higher carbon emissions associated with importing liquefied natural gas instead? Finally, let me ask whether she still sees the Department as a sponsor and a champion for the industry�because the industry certainly does not trust that to be the case.

[Sarah Jones]

The shadow Minister quoted trade union representatives, having not met them or supported them in government. That is always rich. [Interruption.] He says that he did; I stand corrected, although I suspect that he did not do it often. He quoted the general secretary of the GMB, so let me quote him back. The general secretary said:

�Tory ideology has left the UK vulnerable and exposed. Our Government stood by and exported the bulk of the jobs, closed gas storage and failed to invest in new nuclear and skills.�

I thank the shadow Minister for his questions, and I will come to them shortly, but I have to say that this is a fairly familiar story from the Conservative party: no acknowledgment of their failed record on the North sea, no acknowledgment of their having presided over the worst cost of living crisis in a generation, and no answers to the future challenges that our country faces. I remind the hon. Gentleman that it was his party that lost 70,000 North sea jobs in less than a decade. His Government were content for those workers to have to go around the world to find jobs, but this Government want to keep those talents here in the UK, which is why, unlike the last Government, we have a plan.

In my statement, I said that everyone accepts that the North sea is a declining basin. I do not know whether the shadow Minister understands the basic geology, but this is a super-mature basin, and the harder it becomes to drill for oil and gas, the less likely it is that people will be successful. Only one in 10 of the licences that have been offered and granted in recent years have ultimately led to any work.

The hon. Gentleman needs to establish what his party�s view of this agenda is. The hon. Member for West Suffolk (Nick Timothy), who is sitting next to him, had some very peculiar things to say in Westminster Hall yesterday, and it is unclear exactly what their position is. The hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Andrew Bowie) was a Minister for the grid who opposed grid infrastructure, he was a Minister for solar who opposed solar power, and here he is now, the Minister for Aberdeen, campaigning against jobs and investment in his own community.

We are getting on with a plan for the future. First, we will invest in clean power. It is ludicrous that at this time when our bills depend on what Putin chooses to do and we have to respond, the shadow Minister is suggesting that we should do more of that. Even if there were no climate change, even if there were no push to clean power, if we drilled as much oil and gas from the North sea as we possibly could, it would amount to less than 1% of the global market and would have no impact on bills whatsoever.

We will give immediate support to workers�we have explained how we will do that�and we will support Scotland more widely. We will support Great British Energy in Aberdeen. We will support Grangemouth with �200 million from the national wealth fund. Harland and Wolff in Arnish and Methil has been saved from closure. Yesterday, the Port of Cromarty Firth received �55 million through the floating offshore wind manufacturing investment scheme. Twenty per cent. of the contracts in allocation round 6 of the contracts for difference auction are going to Scotland. We have hydrogen investment in Cromarty and Ayrshire. We have the biggest budget for the Scottish Government that we have seen. This is a party that is committed to supporting the people of Scotland, not overseeing managed decline.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call the Chair of the Select Committee.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

The Minister was right to remind us that the North sea is a mature basin, she was right to remind us that 70,000 jobs have been lost there in the last 10 years, and she was right to praise the highly skilled engineers who have made such a contribution in the North sea and to the country. She mentioned the skills passport, and said that the Government were making progress with the industry in finding alternatives in the jobs transition. The Select Committee has heard, a number of times, evidence that one of the challenges is the fact that pay in the North sea is significantly higher than pay in equivalent jobs in the renewable sector, and offshore wind in particular. What, at this stage, are the Minister�s thoughts on how we can make pay more attractive for workers moving from oil and gas into renewables?

[Sarah Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for his work on the Select Committee, which is very important. As he knows, for a long time we have been a bit stuck in trying to set up a passport system because of the slightly different skills and qualifications in each industry and the need to bring them together. The Government became involved to try to ensure that we could bridge that gap and enable people to make the transition. Oil and gas workers are highly skilled and greatly in demand, and, as my hon. Friend says, they are paid a good wage. We need to work with the new offshore wind companies; we like to see union recognition, and we like to see good salaries for people doing those jobs as well. There will be other jobs that people can go into. The plan is to help people make the transition rather than leaving them adrift as the last Government did.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. There is always a maximum of two minutes, and you have exceeded it. Please be seated.

[Sarah Jones]

I thank the hon. Lady for her remarks. On upskilling and redeploying workers, as I said previously, we are introducing the passporting scheme and making sure that we can break down the barriers that exist in different industries, because the skills and talents of people working in oil and gas can be transferred to renewable energy. We want to make sure that we do that.

The hon. Lady talks about vulnerable residents and the cost of heating, and she is absolutely right to do so. We have all suffered from the huge cost of living crisis caused by Putin�s invasion of Ukraine. We are doing what we can, and 6 million people will now get the �150 warm homes discount this winter, which will help with their energy bills.

The hon. Lady asks about the windfall tax. The clue is in the name: it is a tax on windfall profits. While the oil and gas industry is making windfall profits, there will be a windfall tax; when it is not, there will not be. That is the way the scheme works, but her points on the need to insulate homes�we are working at pace on that�and to support vulnerable people are absolutely right. The basic principle is that we have an energy bill rise driven by fossil fuels, so we must move to home-grown power for our energy security and for long-term bill reductions.

[Several hon. Members rose�]

--- Later in debate ---

[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West) (Lab)]

I congratulate the Minister on setting out a plan that supports jobs, skills and communities in the face of technological change�unlike the Conservative party, which abandoned wholesale our industrial base in the 1980s. Like the north-east of Scotland, the north-east of England has jobs, skills and opportunities that depend on the energy of the North sea. Kinewell Energy, in my constituency, leads in wind farm design optimisation. Can the Minister confirm that she will work with the Mayor of the North East, Kim McGuiness, to ensure that the north-east of England benefits from the jobs and opportunities of the North sea?

[Sarah Jones]

I meet industry representatives all the time, and their response to Kim McGuiness is great. She is such a force of enthusiasm, knowledge and power for her communities, and people engage with her. They like what she says about investing in the north-east, and they are responding to her. She is making a real difference in her community. We are doing all we can, through all kinds of levers that the Government can use, to make sure that the investment in clean energy supports all our communities. My hon. Friend is right to highlight the fact that we need to take advantage of the particular skills of people in the north-east.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call the Father of the House.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

When I climb the hill behind my home in the Lincolnshire wolds, I can see, 20 miles away, a wonderful array of wind turbines in the North sea. We love it locally�we love it for our economy�but nothing in that precludes oil and gas exploration. If we in Lincolnshire are doing so much for green energy, why are we allowing the bread basket of England to be covered with solar farms? We have 10,000 acres of them around Gainsborough, and there is another application for 3,900 acres at North Clifton. Will the Minister and her boss please look at such mass applications in the round so that there is not overdevelopment in the break basket of England?

[Sarah Jones]

The right hon. Gentleman paints a lovely picture of walking up the hill in his constituency� I am sure we would all enjoy doing that. He makes an important point about solar. We need to make sure that we are taking people with us and doing the right things, which is what we are trying to do. We know that even if we pushed as far as we could on solar, it would still account for less than 1% of the overall land and the same proportion of our agricultural land�it is a small amount. He is right to want to make sure that his constituents have an environment that they like and enjoy. It is equally right to say that we will need infrastructure in our communities, and that people should see a benefit where we ask them to have infrastructure. There is the solar taskforce, which is looking at all these issues.

[Ms Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is good to see the Government taking a very sensible approach in the consultation to working with our European partners on how we develop renewable energy and get energy costs down. As with so many other areas, our constituents have paid higher bills because the previous Government refused to work with our European counterparts. Can the Minister give us a bit more detail? As we look to expand our capacity to create renewable energy, she will be very aware that there is a risk of an �800 million charge because of the variation between our emissions trading schemes. Can she also tell us a bit more about what working with the North Seas Energy Co-operation might entail, and whether we might rejoin that organisation to help drive down bills further for our constituents?

[Sarah Jones]

My hon. Friend raises a number of thorny issues relating to ETS, for which I am responsible in the Department. We have been having lots of conversations about how we progress, what the EU does, what we do and what we need to do moving forward. These things are enormously complicated, because pulling a lever here will have an unintended consequence over there, so we are treading carefully, as she would expect.

On the EU partnerships and the new relationships that we have with our partners, they are incredibly important. Today the Prime Minister is with the Taoiseach in Ireland, and we are agreeing an energy partnership. We will be working together in the Celtic sea and the Irish sea to speed up progress on wind turbines by using data and our resources to look at our marine landscape and get to a point where private investors can invest quicker. These things are worth doing, and we will certainly carry on doing them.

[Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

I am in favour of net zero, and this country has achieved a great deal in working towards that, but what planet is the Minister�s Department on? Is she unaware that there is now a national security crisis that demands much higher defence expenditure? Is she aware that the costs of net zero are inflicting untold harm on our industry and have done for some years? It is now time to prioritise economic growth, to target cheap energy instead of net zero, and to generate growth and energy exports in order that we can afford the defence we need. The Department is living on another planet, and the Minister should listen to her Chancellor and her Business Secretary, who are trying to give her this advice.

[Sarah Jones]

I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that I am on planet Earth and that we are well aware of what we are doing. We look at the world around us and see the enormous hike in energy prices, which is linked to our being attached to the global market for oil and gas. The previous Government spent tens of billions of pounds of taxpayers� money in order to protect people against the price hike, and we cannot allow that to happen again. It is absolutely right that we push for cheaper renewable energy, and I remind the hon. Gentleman that I sit in two Departments: the Business Secretary is my boss, and the Energy Secretary is my boss. They both agree with this policy, as does the Chancellor, because it is the right thing to do.

[Gareth Snell (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

Through support for jobs, support for skills, the prominence of the industrial strategy and support for a clean transition, the Minister has demonstrated what is possible when there is political will. To quote her words back to her, when will we be able to give the sector the support and clarity it needs to continue operating for some decades? The ceramics sector would love a package like this�or is the ceramics sector not sufficiently important enough?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I ask the Minister to keep her responses short.

[Sarah Jones]

Forgive me, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am over-enthusiastic and have so many things to say.

I always worry when my hon. Friends quote my words back to me. My hon. Friend and I have talked often about ceramics, and I am well aware of the issues. We had a great debate in Westminster Hall this week on the ceramics industry�s challenges with the transition and with energy prices. We are well aware of all of them, and we are working to fix them. I give as much time to ceramics as I do to any other industry, and I will continue to do so.

[Gregory Stafford (Farnham and Bordon) (Con)]

The Minister has previously said that energy security is national security. Why, then, is she cutting energy jobs in the North sea, yet imposing and buying from energy technology companies in China�at best one of our competitors, at worst our enemy�instead of investing in this country for high-paid, high-skilled jobs in the North sea?

[Sarah Jones]

I am not sure how many times I will have to go through this, but we are not cutting energy jobs. The North sea is declining because there is less and less oil and gas there. The work the previous Government did on renewable energies secured no supply chains for this country, so we were reliant on other countries, as the hon. Member points out. We are putting in place incentives for supply chains to be in this country, so that we make more. I am delivering a steel strategy to make sure that we use steel from this country for our clean energy future. These are the policies we are putting in place to make sure we have a managed transition, clean energy, lower bills and energy security.

[Torcuil Crichton (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for her statement, and for the role she played in securing a future for the Methil and Arnish yards in my constituency under the new ownership of Navantia, with new and secure jobs for the future. I am glad she is taking no lessons from the shadow Minister, given that under his Government�s watch, 70,000 jobs were lost from the North sea. What we have today is an industrial strategy that looks after jobs, secures a future for the North sea and ensures that we will be there for another two generations. Can she explain how things such as a skills passport, our investment in GB Energy and our investment in the Cromarty firth�and, I hope, in ports such as Stornoway�will ensure that future?

[Sarah Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question; it has been a pleasure to work with him and to see the way he has championed his community during the conversations we have had about Navantia and Harland & Wolff. The industrial strategy is there for a reason. The previous Government were ideologically opposed to one, for reasons that nobody quite understands. We are setting up a British energy company, which the Conservatives oppose for reasons we do not quite understand. Whether it is Grangemouth, Harland & Wolff, the FLOWMIS money for the port of Cromarty firth, our auction rounds for offshore wind, or hydrogen, we are putting in place the support to make sure that we build an industry we can all be proud of.

[Seamus Logan (Aberdeenshire North and Moray East) (SNP)]

Energy bills are up �300 on Labour�s watch, while our industry cries out for certainty from this Labour Government, who have offered little more than confusion, hostility and prevarication. The Minister talks about clarity and certainty, but what she has given us is another consultation. However, she does not need another consultation to give us certainty on the Acorn carbon capture project at St Fergus, which is a no-brainer if she is serious about economic growth. Will the Minister confirm today that Scotland will finally receive this long overdue investment for the Acorn project in the spring statement later this month?

[Sarah Jones]

If only I was able to confirm what will be in the spring statement, but clearly I cannot do that. We are hugely supportive of the Acorn project, which is an exciting opportunity. We will be investing �21.7 billion in carbon capture, after years of failure and prevarication by the previous Government. That is obviously subject to the spending review, and I cannot give the hon. Member the answer he is after, but I think this is a really exciting opportunity for Scotland. I have met representatives of many of the businesses involved and talked to them about what the potential could be.

[Mr Jonathan Brash (Hartlepool) (Lab)]

I welcome the statement, particularly the Minister�s commitment that oil and gas will be with us for decades to come. Was she as surprised as I was to hear the announcement from Reform UK of a renewables investment tax that would destroy jobs in the North sea and in places such as Hartlepool, which I represent, as well as expose us to Vladimir Putin, and does she suspect that that is what Reform UK actually wants?

[Sarah Jones]

My hon. Friend is completely right to expose Reform�s arguments for the nonsense they are. The CBI brought out a report a week or so ago showing that the net zero economy grew by 10%, which is much faster than the wider economy. This is delivering jobs already, as well as investment from around the world, in part because we are the second most attractive country in the world in which to invest, as PwC has told us. The reality is that we can bring down bills, secure good jobs and make ourselves more energy secure, and Reform is living in the past.

[Martin Vickers (Brigg and Immingham) (Con)]

As the Minister knows, the North sea renewables sector has been very beneficial to my Brigg and Immingham constituency, and I support proposals that will enhance and speed up the development of that sector. However, many businesses in the constituency are struggling because of energy costs, as my hon. Friends have mentioned. Can the Minister give an assurance that, particularly where energy-intensive industries are involved, the Government will bear in mind the consumer, be they business or domestic?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Jones]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question, and indeed for the good relationship we have built up from his speaking on behalf of his constituents in relation to steel and other sectors that we have talked about. Of course, energy-intensive industries talk to us about energy prices, and we are looking to see what we can do. I held a roundtable last week with the energy-intensive industries�steel, chemicals, ceramics of course, and others�and we are looking at what we can do to make sure they can be profitable and grow.

[Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes) (Lab)]

Conservative-led North East Lincolnshire council has embraced the green industries that are helping to reshape our identity in Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes, and it is playing a critical role in decarbonising our energy estuary. Does the Minister agree that the Opposition�s new anti-renewables position undermines the ambition of young people in my constituency, who are excited by this sector? They are keen to work with these companies, which do good, pay well, provide training and benefit the community.

[Sarah Jones]

My hon. Friend is standing up for the jobs and the young people in her community, and it is a shame that the national Conservative party Opposition do not seem clear on what their policy is. Where people can see the jobs and the benefits, councils such as her Conservative-led council support renewables, but for some reason Conservative Front Benchers do not. I do not understand that, but we will keep backing this agenda because we know it will deliver jobs.

[Harriet Cross (Gordon and Buchan) (Con)]

A really interesting line in the Minister�s statement shows, in my opinion, the Labour Government�s complete misunderstanding of the role of the North sea. She said that

�the reality is that new licences�awarded in the past decade have made only a marginal difference to overall production.�

However, that does not take into account the jobs they have supported, the tax intake that comes with them, and the skills, investment and expertise they have preserved and that will help in the transition to renewable energies. Is the Minister saying in her statement that she is actually willing to sacrifice all that to ideologically stop new licences in the North sea?

[Sarah Jones]

The previous Government oversaw a loss of 70,000 jobs that they cared not one jot about. They had no plan of support and no transition plan, and they allowed that managed decline without any commitment. This Government are doing exactly the opposite. We are supporting that transition, we are supporting those workers and we are making sure we can transition people, grow the economy and deliver energy security at the same time.

[Ms Polly Billington (East Thanet) (Lab)]

I welcome my hon. Friend�s statement, and indeed the fact that there is a plan. Although the Tories now accept that they did not have a plan, which is at least an important admission, the result of that lack of a plan is that have been left with uncertainty for both workers and consumers. In East Thanet, we need better jobs and lower bills, and surely she will agree with me that the overall security of our energy is also vital. There is one solution, which is to get off fossil fuels and shift to renewable energy as soon as possible.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Jones]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. She was of course referring to the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for West Suffolk (Nick Timothy), who said yesterday that

�one of the things our party did not get right in government was setting ambitious goals on�energy policy without having a clear�plan to deliver them.��[Official Report, 5 March 2025; Vol. 763, c. 171WH.]

I entirely agree with him.

[Ellie Chowns (North Herefordshire) (Green)]

I welcome the Government�s commitment to no new oil and gas licences, and to putting workers and communities at the heart of the transition to a climate-safe economy. It is a bit disappointing to hear that so many Conservative Members still live on planet flat earth, with an ostrich approach to our energy future when what we need is a phoenix approach. I would like to ask the Minister a specific question. Can she confirm that the 4 billion barrels of oil equivalent currently in the North sea will not be pumped? If it is, it would be the equivalent of running 15 coal-fired power stations from now until 2050. She will know the climate implications. Will she confirm that the Government will stop consent for new production?

[Sarah Jones]

Our manifesto was clear that we would not issue new licences, we would not revoke existing licences, we would manage existing fields for the entirety of their lifespan, and we would ban fracking. The consultation is about the detail behind that. There are some complicated issues that we need to unpick, which is why we are having the consultation, why we welcome everybody�s views, and why I hope the hon. Lady will add her voice to it.

[Leigh Ingham (Stafford) (Lab)]

We are in the midst of yet another fossil fuel price spike, caused by our overreliance on international gas markets. Despite my constituency of Stafford, Eccleshall and the villages being landlocked and quite far from the North sea, I am very proud to have GE Vernova�s largest UK base there, supporting over 1,700 jobs and providing some of the technology for over 30% of UK electricity. Does the Minister agree that there is only one solution to the price spike: to get off fossil fuels and move on to clean home-grown power here in the UK?

[Sarah Jones]

I welcome my hon. Friend�s question. What GE Vernova is doing and the jobs it is providing are incredibly important for her community. We will continue to encourage growth in that sector and beyond through our industrial strategy with its eight sector plans, one of which is clean energy. These things are all connected. We can grow the economy and deliver clean energy, and we can do it together.

[Lincoln Jopp (Spelthorne) (Con)]

BP�s global headquarters are in my constituency. As the Minister meets industry �all the time�, to use her words, she will be fully aware that it announced a major reset last month, whereby it is increasing its investment in upstream oil and gas to the tune of $10 billion a year from next year. That is investors� money, not taxpayers� money. Is the Minister not concerned that by making Britain a hostile environment for oil and gas extraction, we are simply kissing away that investment to overseas?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Jones]

I met BP yesterday to talk about that. If we look at somewhere like the US, there are massive supplies of oil and gas. BP has made its decision. We are working with it very closely on carbon capture and hydrogen in particular. If we drilled as much as we possibly could in the North sea, we would only find less than 1% of the global market. This is a declining basin �that is a fact. It has declined significantly over the past decade and it will continue to do so. We need to manage that process and support people. BP is working very closely with the Government on our renewables agenda, and on carbon capture and hydrogen.

[Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)]

The usual luddite tendencies are on display on the Opposition Benches after 14 years of abject failure. This Government are embracing the golden triangle: energy security to reduce bills, transitioning to net zero, and hundreds of thousands of secure British jobs in Scotland and across the UK. Does the Minister agree that if the shadow Minister, who has a great track record of losing jobs, does not want jobs in Scotland, we will have them in Cornwall?

[Sarah Jones]

My hon. Friend is right to point to the golden triangle of energy security, jobs and climate, and how we can bring them together. I am working hard�not as hard as him; he is working incredibly hard�on bringing as many jobs as possible to his constituency. I look forward to continuing to do that.

[Several hon. Members rose�]

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

As someone with two generations of their family who have depended on the North sea oil and gas industry, I know that we have to move away from fossil fuels and that we have to drive forward to the just transition, but we must also recognise that we are not there yet and that this is not the moment to push the industry off a cliff. It is declining naturally. We are leaving ourselves in a position where we will still need oil, so will we import it? We will need gas for hydrogen production, plastics, chemicals and pharmaceuticals. All of that is necessary. We also face a threat from the Chinese trying to infiltrate our renewables, so what are the Government going to do about that?

[Sarah Jones]

As I hope I made clear, we are not revoking existing licences and we will manage the existing fields for the entirety of their lifespan. As I also made clear, this is a declining basin and we need to manage the transition. The hon. Lady is absolutely right to point to the challenges, and I have great respect for her family history and for all those who work in oil and gas. She is right that we will need oil and gas for decades to come. We are trying to have a sensible plan to manage that process and I hope she will take part in the consultation, too.

[Steve Yemm (Mansfield) (Lab)]

The Minister has already alluded to last week�s CBI report, which set out some of the huge opportunities that net zero offers for job creation, investment and growth. Will she outline to the House what steps her Department is taking to ensure we benefit from all that opportunity through Great British Energy and the National Wealth Fund?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Jones]

The National Wealth Fund and Great British Energy will be incredibly important in this space. Most countries have a sovereign wealth fund like the National Wealth Fund. We have set that up. Most countries have their state energy companies. We have loads of state energy companies�just other countries�. It is absolutely right that we set up our own. We also have the clean energy bonus, which will mean that we are encouraging supply chains and jobs here in the UK, so we can move away from reliance on other countries.

[John Cooper (Dumfries and Galloway) (Con)]

With due deference to the newly appointed Minister for Aberdeen on the Conservative Benches, the question of these jobs is not a matter purely for the north-east or purely for Scotland. Those 200,000 jobs are spread across every constituency in this country and they are all at risk. As we heard from the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine), they are being pushed off a cliff edge. The Minister talked about our energy bills being in the hands of Vladimir Putin. Does she not agree with me that we are stuck between a rock and a hard place? We have Vladimir Putin on one side driving up energy bills and her dogmatic Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero on the other.

[Sarah Jones]

I do not agree with that framing whatsoever. We have Putin who invaded Ukraine, leading to the massive global shock for energy prices, and we have a Secretary of State who is very pragmatically taking forward plans to, as the triangle tells us, protect and grow jobs, and give us energy security. I think most people in the country understand that. They get that we need energy security and to tackle the climate at the same time.

[Brian Leishman (Alloa and Grangemouth) (Lab)]

Scandalously, the workers of the Grangemouth refinery are to be the victims of a very unjust transition. The folly of a foreign state and private capital being in charge of such a key vital piece of energy infrastructure is laid bare, especially with no UK Government involvement. I am curious as to what ownership role the UK Government will take in the new energy industries that will be at Grangemouth.

[Sarah Jones]

My hon. Friend will know about the announcements that were made recently about support for Grangemouth. In the last couple of weeks, I met INEOS to talk about its chemical factory and the huge contribution it brings in terms of jobs and the provision of chemicals. The �200 million investment from the National Wealth Fund is really important in this space. The work that the Government have done to look at possible businesses and industries for Grangemouth in the future is really important and I am very happy to have a conversation with him.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Final question.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

While I very much welcome the move towards clean energy, my concern is that we cannot allow energy prices to rise any further, especially when we take into account the loss of the winter fuel payment for many pensioners on the poverty line. How will the Minister ensure that clean energy and heat will not be out of reach for those who are already struggling: the elderly, the vulnerable, those in poor health and those in poverty?

[Sarah Jones]

The hon. Gentleman raises a really important point. We know that energy bills have been rising because of the oil and gas we rely on and the impact of the war in Ukraine. We have massively increased the warm home discount so that 6 million households will get �150 to help towards their energy bills, but he is right to champion people who are going through a cost of living crisis. We will do what we can to support them.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

That marks the end of the statement. I could not get all colleagues in because questions were so long, and answers were occasionally just as lengthy.

North Staffordshire Ceramics Industry: Energy Costs

Sarah Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 4th March 2025 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir John. I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (David Williams) for securing this important debate. I begin by echoing his thanks to the trade unions, the industry and Ceramics UK for all they do. I have engaged with Ceramics UK quite a bit since taking up this role, and previously in opposition, and I work closely with the unions and the industry.

My hon. Friend clearly laid out the challenges we face, as well as the challenges facing his community’s disposable household incomes, and the importance of getting this right. He is right to look to the future of ceramics, not to the past. There are several industries that we want to grow in the UK, but we have historically focused on the past—steel is a case in point—not the future.

My hon. Friend talks about new advanced technologies, and the important uses of ceramics in our mobile phones, our aircraft, our defence and our medical equipment are clear to see, though little understood by those outside this sector. We can all do more to make sure people understand the ceramics industry and what it is for. The industrial strategy is one way to do that.

As my hon. Friend knows, the industrial strategy is coming out in the spring. We promised it for years in opposition, and the previous Government but one tried, but they did not persevere. We have identified eight growth sectors within the strategy—advanced manufacturing is one of them—but foundational industries have to power those growth sectors, which is where ceramics is important.

I nod to my hon. Friend’s well-made point about defence, which is one of the growth sectors in the industrial strategy. Over the last few days, we have seen this Government’s commitment to increasing our defence spending. The Chancellor spoke at the Make UK conference today about how we can change defence procurement to include more of this country’s SMEs. We have also been creative in using UK Export Finance to create jobs with Thales in Belfast. There is more we can do, and I will take away my hon. Friend’s point about advanced ceramic carbon filters. I suspect there are other potential applications in this space.

I acknowledge and appreciate the very real challenges that my hon. Friend raises. The cost of energy bills is very difficult for the ceramics industry and other energy-intensive industries. Every one of us has suffered from the huge price hike after Russia invaded Ukraine, although our energy costs are not comparable with those of our neighbours.

My hon. Friend also highlighted how electricity costs so much more than gas and the challenges that will bring as we decarbonise. He mentioned the emissions trading scheme and the ongoing consultation on free allowances. I also heard his well-made points about the low carbon transition and the challenges for sectors such as ceramics, where its up-front cost is potentially prohibitive.

[Gareth Snell]

The Minister probably knows as much about ceramics as those of us from Stoke-on-Trent, as she is constantly on her brief.

On the transition, one of the challenges facing ceramics companies in Stoke-on-Trent and around the country is that the margins on their products are not sufficient to allow big up-front capital investments, which means that going from a gas kiln to an electric kiln is often beyond their reach as they simply do not have the cash flow.

One solution that the Minister could potentially take back to the Department is some sort of VAT exemption for energy-intensive industries and companies that are looking to move towards more low-energy, low-carbon equipment. Perhaps the public sector decarbonisation scheme, which is currently undersubscribed, could be used in some way to help energy-intensive private companies to access new technology that would reduce not only their carbon output but their long-term energy costs through efficiencies.

[Sarah Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for those points, which he has previously raised with me. I can certainly take away the point about the public sector decarbonisation scheme. Bizarrely, as he knows, it is not part of my brief, but that does not matter. This Government work across Departments and across barriers, and I will endeavour to look into it. The point is well made that it can be challenging when a company has small margins and big up-front costs, especially in these industries where there has not been infrastructure investment for a long time. A lot of places need general infrastructure investment, and we are looking actively at this issue through the spending review process.

Happily, I can say that we are looking to answer all the questions asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North. I cannot promise what the answers will be at this point, and I cannot promise that we will do everything we seek to do, but we are well aware of all his points and are looking at them in depth.

We are looking at subsidies on energy costs. My hon. Friend said that the Department for Business and Trade and the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero should work together. I sit in both Departments, so I have conversations with myself about these issues. There are competing vantage points that we need to grapple with, but the advantage of my sitting in both Departments is that officials from the two Departments meet to find solutions before speaking to me, which is helpful. They are working well together.

We are also looking at the energy-intensive industries exemption scheme. As my hon. Friend knows, grid connections are an issue across the board. We are working on how to remove undeveloped, speculative programmes from the grid connection queue and prioritise others. One of my roles as the Minister for Industry is to point to the need not to forget our existing industrial base and the need for it to connect to the grid, as well as the need for the important data centres, artificial intelligence and new technologies and new investment that we want to come to the UK. If we cannot get our own industry connected in the way we want, we are getting something wrong, so my hon. Friend is right to make that point.

I met representatives of the energy-intensive industries last week, including Rob from Ceramics UK, and I am following up on all these things with the Treasury and with officials. We agreed on a couple of things at that meeting, and one is to have a session with the industrial strategy team and the energy-intensive industries to make sure we are all working towards the same outcome. Another is to talk to the Treasury about the challenge we face in how the ETS and the CBAM align and fit together, or not, depending on policy. These things are enormously complicated, as my hon. Friend knows, and CBAM is a Treasury lead. However, I am very aware of the need to get that relationship right; otherwise, the system does not work at all.

My hon. Friend talked about hydrogen, which is very important and is part of my brief in the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero. We are developing a kind of hydrogen network. We have had what we call HAR1, or hydrogen allocation round 1, which was the initial agreement to fund 11 hydrogen projects—electrolyser projects—around the country. There is hydrogen in the carbon capture and storage clusters that we are developing, and we are currently looking at what the next phase of the hydrogen roll-out will be.

My hon. Friend knows that hydrogen is currently very expensive. We need to work out a path to reduce costs, which is what we are grappling with at the moment, in a climate where it is difficult to bid for money in the spending review. How can we unleash the hydrogen industry and give certainty to businesses that want to invest but need the right signals? How can we do that and use money wisely? And who pays for it? People are very interested in hydrogen, whether in steel, in transport or in the green energy space—it has a lot of uses. We need to make sure we are making the right decisions. I will speak to the hydrogen team about ceramics, and I will ask what we are looking at in that space.

[Gareth Snell]

Again, I am grateful to the Minister for her generosity in giving way. My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (David Williams) is right that hydrogen could be the thing that helps our industry, but electrolysis requires electricity. Electricity generation is capped to the gas price, and therefore the gas price drives the hydrogen price. Unless there is a way of decoupling that rather difficult circuit, we will find ourselves replenishing fuel without a particular discount.

Our other unique challenge, as my hon. Friend expertly laid out, is that these factories are in communities, because that is how ceramics worked—a potbank was built and then houses were built around it. Connecting to hydrogen would not be suitable if the hydrogen has to be contained in large towers, which are better suited to large out-of- town factories.

Although I welcome the Minister’s commitment to hydrogen, I hope she can bear those two points in mind, because ceramics are a unique challenge. However, we are willing to work with her to find a solution.

[Sarah Jones]

My hon. Friend articulates his concerns very well. Connecting the gas sounds like a song: “The hip bone’s connected to the thigh bone.” It is very challenging, and he is right to say so. The challenge with hydrogen is getting it to a point where we can deliver it at the scale we want. Or will it always be used in certain areas for certain things, as we will never get the cost down? That is what we are grappling with. On the potential jobs, potential growth and potential exports, these are huge opportunities for the UK, but we need to work out how we take it forward.

Finally, my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North mentioned the huge challenge of counterfeiting. He nodded to the actions taken by the Trade Remedies Authority. I know that Ceramics UK and ceramics manufacturers have responded to that review and a final recommendation is due in July. Of course, I will make representations where needed. I recognise the challenge that my hon. Friend highlights.

Trade officials regularly meet representatives of Ceramics UK. I do not wish to add to the burden of my colleagues, but it might also be good for my hon. Friend to speak to the Minister for Trade Policy and Economic Security, my right hon. Friend the Member for Lothian East (Mr Alexander), if he has not already done so, about some of the challenges we face.

Hopefully, I have answered my hon. Friend’s questions. I congratulate him again on securing a debate on such an important issue, on behalf of his constituents who work in such a fantastic industry for our country, and hopefully we can work together to fix some of these challenges.

Question put and agreed to.

Business and Trade

Sarah Jones Excerpts

Monday 3rd March 2025 Written Corrections

[Clive Jones (Wokingham) (LD)]

This is yet another failure in the Government’s main aim of getting Britain growing again. Zero-emission vehicles are too expensive and, it appears, too hard to manufacture in the UK. That forces us into an unfortunate reality in which we are reliant on Elon Musk for our supply of EVs, and are funnelling money into his already very deep pockets, rather than promoting a productive domestic market with good jobs. We need to show ambition and make it easier for ordinary families to buy EVs. What measures will the Government take to support and encourage consumer demand for electric vehicles?

[Sarah Jones]

The hon. Gentleman talks about the Government’s policies for growing the economy. A few months ago, we held an international investment summit, at which £63 billion of investment was announced. As I have mentioned, there was £2 billion announced in the Budget for the automotive industry. Interest rates have been cut three times, wages are up, and more than 70,000 jobs have been secured in the UK since the Government came to power. The International Monetary Fund and the OECD predict that the UK will be Europe’s fastest-growing economy over the next few years. The industrial strategy was scrapped under the last Government; our industrial strategy will be the backbone of ensuring that we deliver growth…

[Official Report, 24 February 2025; Vol. 762, c. 509.]

Written correction submitted by the Minister for Industry, the hon. Member for Croydon West (Sarah Jones):

[Sarah Jones]

The hon. Gentleman talks about the Government’s policies for growing the economy. A few months ago, we held an international investment summit, at which £63 billion of investment was announced. As I have mentioned, there was £2 billion announced in the Budget for the automotive industry. Interest rates have been cut three times, wages are up, and more than 70,000 jobs have been secured in the UK since the Government came to power. The International Monetary Fund and the OECD predict that the UK will be Europe’s fastest-growing major G7 economy in the coming years. The industrial strategy was scrapped under the last Government; our industrial strategy will be the backbone of ensuring that we deliver growth…

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Minister has a real interest in the matters for which she has ministerial responsibility; I want to put on the record my thanks to her. When we have had meetings on other issues relating to Northern Ireland, she has been anxious to help and support me, and I appreciate that.

The decision not to go ahead with the EV production is disappointing to say the least, but it perhaps indicates a wider issue that we face in the manufacturing industry due to rising costs. What can the Minister do to help companies attract more investment through lower energy costs, and what can the Government do to ensure that British jobs are not sent to China, and to ensure that firms that choose to relocate jobs understand that no future help will be forthcoming?

[Sarah Jones]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind words. I should be clear for the House that the decision has not been made to not go ahead; this is a delay and a change in timing. BMW is committed to going ahead with the investment. At the moment, its e-Mini is being produced in China. This investment will bring it here to the UK.

[Official Report, 24 February 2025; Vol. 762, c. 512.]

Written correction submitted by the Minister for Industry:

[Sarah Jones]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind words. I should be clear for the House that the decision has not been made to not go ahead; this is a delay and a change in timing. BMW is committed to going ahead with the investment. At the moment, its e-Mini is being produced in China. This investment will bring EV production to the UK, in addition to China.

Plant Oxford Site

Sarah Jones Excerpts

Monday 24th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Greg Smith (Mid Buckinghamshire) (Con)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Business and Trade if we will make a statement on the Plant Oxford site.

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

This Government are determined to see a strong, thriving UK automotive industry. We recognise the vital role that the British motor industry plays within our manufacturing landscape, employing more than 150,000 people, with tens of thousands more working in the wider supply chain. That is why we are ploughing £2 billion into the sector’s green transition and £300 million to encourage the uptake of new, clean, green electric vehicles—a big incentive for the global automotive sector to invest in the UK. Building on this momentum, our modern industrial strategy will back automotive companies that want to invest in Britain and drive long-term sustainable UK growth.

BMW has taken a commercial decision to delay the production of two new electric Mini models at its Oxford plant. Undoubtedly, that news will be unsettling for the company’s many hard-working employees, not least those working directly on the production line, but I must stress that BMW remains committed to its investment in the UK. It is by no means unusual for a manufacturer to adjust its product line-up or production start dates for commercial reasons.

We are proud that BMW considers Oxford to be at the heart of Mini production. As a Government, we are throwing our weight behind its investment. We want big automotive brands from Britain and around the world to lie at the heart of our growth mission and plan for change, creating well-paid jobs and putting more money into people’s pockets. As part of that effort, this Government are working closely with BMW as it reviews its investment timelines, ensuring that more cars are built right here in the United Kingdom.

[Greg Smith]

I draw attention to my entry in the register of interests. I expected the Secretary of State to hide from talk of CVs, but it seems that also applies to EVs. This weekend we saw the disastrous consequences of Labour’s rigid approach to net zero: BMW hitting the brakes on a £600 million investment in Plant Oxford. That deal, from 2023, would have secured 4,000 high-quality jobs and was a strong vote of confidence in the UK. Like other deals, it was possible only because the previous Government were willing to be pragmatic. The Conservatives made the sensible decision to delay the ban on internal combustion engine cars, bringing the UK into line with major global economies such as France, Germany, Sweden and Canada, but Labour said it knew better, restoring the 2030 phase-out date in its manifesto.

When the negative impacts of that approach became clear, the Government launched a fast-track consultation on the zero emission vehicle mandate, pitifully attempting to buy themselves time. Surely, no consultation is necessary. The effects of their puritanical ZEV obsession is already clear: Jaguar Land Rover says that the ZEV mandate is causing disruption to the market; Vauxhall has confirmed that it will shut down its Luton factory, citing the ZEV mandate as making the plant less economically viable; and now the future of Plant Oxford—the home of the Mini since 1959—is uncertain.

Labour’s reckless policies have shattered industry confidence, with consumer demand for EVs dropping off a cliff and numbers only just about sustained by subsidised fleet sales. Will the Minister do the right thing: stop hiding behind consultations and acknowledge that the Government’s ideological approach to net zero will lead only to economic disaster for our automotive sector and consumers alike?

[Sarah Jones]

It is hard to know where to start. The “puritanical ZEV obsession” was, as the hon. Gentleman knows, a Conservative policy from the last Government. The only changes made to that policy under the last Prime Minister dampened demand by changing the deadline, and hampered manufacturers by not ensuring flexibility or pragmatism in how the policy operated—it was the worst of both worlds.

By contrast, Labour and the Government are acting with pragmatism. We are listening to industry and working at pace to get this right. We are also creating the conditions in which the automotive industry can thrive. That means delivering not just the economic and political stability so lacking under the previous Government, but an industrial strategy that will deliver growth, including in the automotive industry; investing £2 billion in automotive transition through the Budget; investing in research and development; supporting and talking to our industries; and understanding the global climate.

It was really clear in BMW’s statement that there were macroeconomic global and commercial reasons why the decision to delay was made, but BMW is clear that it is still committed to this investment in the UK. I have talked to my right hon. Friend the Member for Oxford East (Anneliese Dodds), who is liaising closely with workers and unions, as would be expected. We will continue to work to ensure the right economic and political climate, so that these industries can grow.

[Sonia Kumar (Dudley) (Lab)]

Will the Minister update the House on progress on the industrial strategy for the automotive industry? How will that support supply chains in places like Dudley and across the west midlands?

[Sarah Jones]

We are working at pace on delivering the industrial strategy in the spring. There are 150,000 good jobs in the automotive industry, and we want to see those jobs grow. We have identified eight growth sectors that the industrial strategy will turbocharge. Advanced manufacturing is one of them, and that of course includes the auto industry. We have £2 billion of investment, committed at the Budget, to underpin that. We are also working in the industrial strategy on identifying any barriers to growth, so that we can ensure that the sector grows in the years to come.

The industrial strategy will give the stability that we need over the long term—over five and 10 years. It will look at the policy levers that we can control to ensure that businesses continue to want to invest in the UK. PwC has just ranked the UK the second-best place in the world to invest, so I think the future is positive.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

--- Later in debate ---

[Clive Jones (Wokingham) (LD)]

This is yet another failure in the Government’s main aim of getting Britain growing again. Zero-emission vehicles are too expensive and, it appears, too hard to manufacture in the UK. That forces us into an unfortunate reality in which we are reliant on Elon Musk for our supply of EVs, and are funnelling money into his already very deep pockets, rather than promoting a productive domestic market with good jobs. We need to show ambition and make it easier for ordinary families to buy EVs. What measures will the Government take to support and encourage consumer demand for electric vehicles?

[Sarah Jones]

The hon. Gentleman talks about the Government’s policies for growing the economy. A few months ago, we held an international investment summit, at which £63 billion of investment was announced. As I have mentioned, there was £2 billion announced in the Budget for the automotive industry. Interest rates have been cut three times, wages are up, and more than 70,000 jobs have been secured in the UK since the Government came to power. The International Monetary Fund and the OECD predict that the UK will be Europe’s fastest-growing economy over the next few years. The industrial strategy was scrapped under the last Government; our industrial strategy will be the backbone of ensuring that we deliver growth.

The hon. Gentleman asked what we were doing. I have already set out the stability, investment and reform that we are bringing to the sector to make sure that it can thrive. Hundreds of thousands of people rely on the automotive industry through their work in it, or in its supply chains. Those are good, well-paid jobs, and we are absolutely determined to ensure that the sector grows.

[Antonia Bance (Tipton and Wednesbury) (Lab)]

The Minister has set out how we delivered £2 billion-worth of support for the automotive sector in the Budget. That support is both for manufacturing and for the crucial supply chains in places such as my Black Country constituency and Oxford. Is she able to set out any further details about how that money will be used to support our brilliant manufacturing?

[Sarah Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question, and for her support for the industry, which is so important. Through the £2 billion funding, the automotive transformation fund, the exceptional regional growth fund and the advanced propulsion centre research and development fund, we have found innovative ways of supporting the industry. In January, I was pleased to hear Jatco, a company that makes transmissions for Nissan, announce that it would put its first manufacturing plant in Europe here in the UK; it is converting an old hospital building with a £50 million investment. That plant will be at the international advanced manufacturing park in Sunderland. That is the kind of opportunity that we want to create and deliver.

[Sir Gavin Williamson (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge) (Con)]

Jaguar Land Rover, which has its engine manufacturing centre based in Staffordshire, is a vital employer for people not just in Staffordshire, but right across the west midlands. That plant is pioneering the development of electric vehicles for JLR. What additional support and flexibility will there be from the Government to ensure that Great British brands continue to prosper in the west midlands?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Jones]

The right hon. Gentleman is right to talk about Great British brands. We have some incredible small car manufacturers, as well as larger ones, in the UK, and there is great diversity of provision. We are supporting the development of gigafactories in the UK, so that we can make the batteries that we need. We are helping with R&D and innovation to make our cars more sophisticated and efficient, and supporting the large manufacturers to ensure that the conditions are right for them to develop in the UK. We are doing all those things through our industrial strategy and our automotive strategy. I work with the Automotive Council; we met just a couple of weeks ago to talk about the vibrant future that we see for automotives in the UK. I am always happy to talk to JLR about its plans, and have done so several times.

[Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)]

I know that the shadow Minister struggles with the dynamics of the automotive industry, but for the last 20 years, 50% of new vehicle sales have been fleet and business sales. Does the Minister agree that the decision taken today is a commercial decision, based around the structure of BMW’s dealer network, as opposed to an obsession with petrol and diesel vehicles?

[Sarah Jones]

My hon. Friend as absolutely right to say that this is a commercial decision. As he would expect, we are talking to representatives of BMW; my officials were with them in Munich a couple of weeks ago, and I have met the UK managing director several times. We are talking to them to support the commercial decisions that they need to make. They have made it clear that there were macroeconomic, global and commercial reasons for the delay that has been announced; such delays are not uncommon. I know that BMW remains committed to this investment in the UK.

[Calum Miller (Bicester and Woodstock) (LD)]

More than 300 employees at the BMW plant in Oxford live in my constituency, and this morning I met plant convenors from the Unite union to discuss the impact that the uncertainty at the plant is having on those workers and their families. Can the Minister outline exactly how the new industrial strategy will help the plant to become more competitive, in the face of severe competition from other BMW plants in the EU, the US and China?

[Sarah Jones]

The hon. Gentleman is right to highlight the concern that I suspect those employees feel. They have known about this change since last year. There are 3,500 people who work in the Oxford plant and many more who work at Rolls-Royce, which is owned by BMW, and in other parts of the UK. Through the industrial strategy, we are looking at a number of issues that we will use the £2 billion for, and we will use the powers that we have. Skills, energy costs and access to finance are all issues that we are having lots of conversations about, as well as the transition to electric vehicles. We are making sure that the flight path for investment in the UK is as good as possible, and that those who are already investing in the UK continue to do so. BMW has announced a £300 million investment in Rolls-Royce, which it owns. It remains committed to this investment in the UK, but I appreciate that there will be concerns among the workers to whom the hon. Gentleman has been talking, and I am always happy to meet people to discuss these matters in more detail.

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

Tata’s Llanwern steelworks in my constituency produces world-class automotive steel. The Minister has acknowledged the importance of the automotive sector. Will she also acknowledge the importance of having a strong steel industry, and of plants like Llanwern making steel for EVs, and put that at the heart of the forthcoming industrial strategy—a strategy that the Conservatives never had?

[Sarah Jones]

I am glad that my hon. Friend has managed, as ever, to bring steel into the debate. It is incredibly important, and that is why we will have a separate steel strategy, on top of the work that we are doing in the industrial strategy to ensure a thriving sector in the future. That will look at all the issues that we are grappling with and that she knows about, including the transition, energy prices, access to finance, access to grid connections and scrap. We will continue to ensure that the UK’s six steel producers can thrive and bring in new business.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

In answer to the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire (Greg Smith), the Minister stated that the strategy is resulting in people wanting to invest in the United Kingdom. The sad fact is that as a result of the mad net zero policies that this Government are following, we are losing investment every week; this is yet another example. Does the Minister not follow the logic? If we punish people for not wanting the cars that we produce, the companies will cut back production and jobs, consumers will not get what they want, and economic growth will be affected. When will this Government come to the conclusion that this policy of net zero and punishing people is wrong?

[Sarah Jones]

I do not know if the right hon. Gentleman saw that the CBI brought out figures over the weekend showing that the net zero economy grew by 10% last year, which is significantly more than the economy as a whole. We are absolutely right to transition to electric vehicles, so that we can stick to our commitments on climate change. We are being pragmatic in how we do that. We are not following the same policy as the previous Government, because we are talking to industry and consulting. We will publish the results of the consultation on how the flexibilities within the transition are working, and whether we need to change them in any way.

[Richard Tice (Boston and Skegness) (Reform)]

The British car industry was thriving until the Conservative party introduced net stupid zero, and now we have another car plant at risk; another business struggling and losing hundreds of millions of pounds; and hundreds more British jobs at risk. Does the Minister agree that the automotive industry in the UK will continue to decline until we scrap net zero?

[Sarah Jones]

Here we go with the same old lines. The hon. Gentleman tells us that net zero is a massive con, yet he owns a company that is investing in electric car charging ports. I rest my case.

[Mr Speaker]

On that well-known BMW plant in Strangford, I call Jim Shannon.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Minister has a real interest in the matters for which she has ministerial responsibility; I want to put on the record my thanks to her. When we have had meetings on other issues relating to Northern Ireland, she has been anxious to help and support me, and I appreciate that.

The decision not to go ahead with the EV production is disappointing to say the least, but it perhaps indicates a wider issue that we face in the manufacturing industry due to rising costs. What can the Minister do to help companies attract more investment through lower energy costs, and what can the Government do to ensure that British jobs are not sent to China, and to ensure that firms that choose to relocate jobs understand that no future help will be forthcoming?

[Sarah Jones]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind words. I should be clear for the House that the decision has not been made to not go ahead; this is a delay and a change in timing. BMW is committed to going ahead with the investment. At the moment, its e-Mini is being produced in China. This investment will bring it here to the UK. Lots must be done in terms of energy prices, as he says. Building a gigafactory means significant reductions in energy prices, but the wider manufacturing sector is talking to us virtually every day about these kinds of issues. Through the industrial strategy and the reforms that we want to bring in, and by spending the £2 billion that we were allocated in the Budget, we hope to deliver a thriving automotive industry well into the future.

Steel Strategy: Consultation

Sarah Jones Excerpts

Monday 24th February 2025 Written Statements

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

Steel is essential for a modern economy, underpinning sectors from construction to advanced manufacturing and driving growth. It plays a vital role in the communities in which it is situated, supporting jobs and living standards in the UK’s industrial heartlands.

The Government are wasting no time in taking action to support the industry. We have simplified public procurement and aligned it with the Government’s missions, to put UK firms—including the steel industry—in the best possible position to compete for and win public contracts. That is on top of delivering a better deal for Port Talbot within weeks of taking office, to transform production there and deliver a modern electric arc furnace and implementing the British industry supercharger to cut electricity costs for steel firms, bringing prices more in line with international competitors.

We are committed to rebuilding the UK steel sector and securing the future of the industry, and that is why in spring 2025 we will publish the steel strategy, “The Plan for Steel”, which will establish a clear and ambitious long-term vision for the steel industry and set out the actions needed to get there. It will articulate what is needed to create a competitive business environment in the UK, with the aim of attracting new private investment to expand UK steelmaking capability. Our planning reforms will give the industry a strong pipeline of business that will secure supply chains for years to come and drive economic growth as part of our plan for change. This will be backed by up to £2.5 billion, which will be available through the national wealth fund and other routes.

This could benefit regions across the UK—such as Scunthorpe, Rotherham, Redcar, Yorkshire and Port Talbot—that have a strong history of steel production. It will be spent on initiatives that will give the industry a long future, such as supporting the transition to electric arc furnaces, or other improvements in UK capabilities. The strategy will be pursued in alignment with wider Government priorities, including the trade strategy, the strategic defence review and Invest 2035, the upcoming industrial strategy.

On Sunday 16 February 2025, we published a consultation document that sets out our planned approach for the strategy and asks stakeholders for their feedback and evidence on a range of topics, both on the wider direction that the UK steel sector should take and on the detail of the proposed areas of focus for the strategy. This is an important step in developing the strategy for the longer term. This includes issues that we know to be concerns for the industry, such as the price of electricity and the challenging global trading environment, but also areas of new opportunity, such as how best to leverage the UK’s abundant supplies of scrap steel and how we can best align our production capabilities with domestic demand. The document also seeks views on funding and financing, which will help inform how best to take forward our commitment of up to £2.5 billion for the sector. This information will be reviewed as we develop the strategy and will be reflected in the final document when it is launched in spring 2025.

This is just one element of our open and collaborative approach to this work, which had a strong start at the beginning of this year with the first meeting of the Steel Council under this Government. The intention is that the Steel Council, a body of industry experts and representatives, will meet again before the publication of the strategy. I have also had the opportunity to speak to the industry directly—and I will continue to do so— by chairing a series of roundtables addressing specific issues where detailed industry feedback will be vital to inform our approach.

We believe that this is important and timely work. This Government stand by the UK steel sector as it continues to work on finding solutions to those challenges. As the Secretary of State for Business and Trade, my right hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds), has set out in the consultation document, the steel industry has an enormous role to play in our mission to drive economic growth, and it is of the utmost importance that the steel strategy is a real driver of meaningful change in the industry. The publication of this consultation, and the insight that we hope to receive from stakeholders, is an important step in achieving that.

Responses to the consultation can be provided by online survey until 30 March.

[HCWS457]

Manufacturing and Engineering (Northern Ireland)

Sarah Jones Excerpts

Thursday 6th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

I thank the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) for introducing today’s debate in his usual style of gentle persistence, and for the birthday message that he sent me back in December. I think he is the only Member of Parliament who sends birthday messages to every MP. The care with which he treats all of us is an example to us all.

I have a list here of all the good things about Northern Ireland manufacturing. The hon. Member has listed most of them already. For the benefit of the House, I will not repeat the case that he has made; I will just set out a few things about the Government’s approach. First, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and I, and others, were in Northern Ireland when we were able to announce a successful outcome on the Harland and Wolff deal. When we first came to power last July, it was one of the early industries in distress that came across our desks. We were faced with the possible collapse of Harland and Wolff, and there was absolutely no way we could allow that to happen. We all worked very hard to ensure that there was a deal that worked both for the Ministry of Defence, in terms of the fleet solid support contract for Navantia, and its commercial interests and what it could do, and for the workers of Harland and Wolff.

We did not do that because we are good people and we did not want to see job losses, although those things are true; we did it because the four Harland and Wolff sites are of incredible strategic importance to us. As it happens, I was in Methil yesterday, the Harland and Wolff site in Fife, where there is a huge future for offshore wind. The site can build part of that future. Sometimes we look through misty eyes at what has happened in the past in Belfast, and what Harland and Wolff used to be. The way we see it is: let us look at what it can be in the future, and how important it is. Of course it is important for people to have good well-paid jobs, but it is the talent and expertise they bring—which I see in spades in Northern Ireland every time I go; the enthusiasm, the talent, the training and the apprenticeship programmes—that mean we can build the future we want to see. They will be very important for our defence, but the whole ecosystem the hon. Gentleman talked about is very important for our future.

What support can the Government bring to ensure that people continue to flourish and thrive? First, we want to work collaboratively across the nations in a way that is productive and useful. I chair the business and industry inter-ministerial group in the Department for Business and Trade. At our first meeting, the hon. Gentleman’s colleagues in Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland were there, too. What we can do collectively that helps all our nations is really important.

Secondly, the Government set the structure, through the industrial strategy, and a direction of travel that industry can understand. The hon. Gentleman will know that we are developing the industrial strategy. There are eight growth sectors where we think there is the biggest capacity for growth. We are working on honing down what the sub-sectors are within that. Advanced manufacturing, defence and green energy are all key areas that we have identified as opportunities for growth and Northern Ireland has such a role to play in that space. That architecture, which will provide the long-term stability over the next five to 10 years, will be really important and helpful.

The third bit of architecture is our universities, colleges, catapults, Innovate UK and all the other networks that help us to come up with new ideas and new businesses. I met Catapult Network chief executives this morning. They told me about—they were keen that I mention it in this debate, as I said I was coming here—some of the innovative work going on through the catapults in Northern Ireland. They are working with Invest Northern Ireland on hydrogen, which will accelerate supply chains for the hydrogen economy. They are working with Queen’s University Belfast to ensure that Northern Ireland’s manufacturing businesses can connect into national capabilities and help address future challenges. There is a lot of good work going on there.

The next bit of architecture is how we help all those businesses in Northern Ireland to export. I was in Saudi Arabia two weeks ago, alongside Invest Northern Ireland and Northern Ireland businesses, which were taking their huge talent and, I hope, doing some good deals. There was a business—I might get this wrong and have to tell Hansard to correct this—that makes kit that washes sand. It has washed 99% of the sand that needs to be washed—I am going to stop trying to go into detail!—in Qatar. It was a very small business in Northern Ireland that was, basically, providing a service to Qatar that nobody else could do. That was quite extraordinary, but that is the talent we have coming out of Northern Ireland and we want to work with Invest NI on that. We need to get the right architecture in place to ensure the future is bright.

I think what the hon. Gentleman also wants me to talk about is how we protect what we have. He made a very good case on Spirit and how it is not just the jobs, but the supply chain and all interactions. He used some very interesting statistics on the potential impact of closures. What I will say in this space is, first, that we all want the same thing. Secondly, just to correct the record, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds South (Hilary Benn) has met the trade unions to talk about that. I was at Spirit on 19 December and talked about the future. I have talked to all interested parties in this space. Collectively as a Government—the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the Secretary of State for Business and Trade, my right hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds)—we are trying to do what we can. It is a complex situation, as we know, and there are layers of complexity in terms of who does what. We are trying to do what we can. Government can only do what they can in trying to bring people together, come up with solutions and talk to those interested parties, but I think we are pushing in the right direction. Although I cannot click my finger and have the answer that the hon. Gentleman wants this evening, I can give him the commitment that we are doing what we can. If he has suggestions as to further meetings we could hold and things we could do, of course, I would be very happy to do that. I am having conversations regularly on Short Brothers and Spirit AeroSystems, as the hon. Gentleman would expect. I am talking to the aerospace industry, Boeing and all the interested parties.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. I am happy that the meeting has taken place. Whenever I met them—it would have been three or even four weeks ago—they informed me that the meeting had not taken place. I am glad that it has, because that is better. When it comes to moving forward in Northern Ireland, things only ever happen when we all work together. That is important.

I also thank the Minister and the Secretary of State for what they have done in relation to Harland and Wolff. We appreciate that. I know it was complex and difficult, and that there were things they could not say when we asked in the past and things were happening behind the scenes. Could the Minister be involved in those contacts with Spirit and Unite and the GMB unions, again with the Secretary of State? That contact is important. I say to the Minister that she should bring people with her. If we bring people with us, we always win the case.

[Sarah Jones]

I am always happy to meet the trade unions. I think I spend more time with trade unions in government than I did in opposition. We are forever meeting, usually in very happy circumstances where we are all trying to push to the same end in terms of building industry and creating growth. I am therefore always happy to meet and to do that. Of course, it is not just Ministers who are in conversation; I should say that the officials are also talking to all the interested parties, just to see what can be done. But I will not deny that it is a challenge.

The two-pronged approach of trying to ensure we have the architecture to build our manufacturing and our industry in Northern Ireland, alongside trying to see if we can find a solution when it comes to Spirit, is the right thing to do. We should not ignore one or the other; we need to try with both and that is what we will do.

Encouraging new investment into Northern Ireland is also part of the picture. The Government’s investment summit and the work through the Office for Investment and the Minister for Investment really focuses on the strengths of a region and an area—the strength of a nation in this case—and the wonderful manufacturing ecosystem that we should be able to build on and which should be a very attractive proposition to investors who want to come in and expand.

I could talk more about some of the other examples of good practice and exciting things that are happening in Northern Ireland, but I do not want to keep the House longer than is necessary. The hon. Member has made the case very well, and I agree with everything that he has said.

[Jim Shannon]

I suppose the thrust of all the good things—we do not deny them but welcome them because they are good things—is to have the sale as one entity. On behalf of the workers, I especially ask the Minister to commit to looking at what more can be done for the Spirit workers. They are skilled, they are experienced and they are critical to Northern Ireland’s manufacturing base. That is my request to the Minister: to sell it as one entity and keep the workers.

[Sarah Jones]

I thank the hon. Member for that intervention. He is now looking at his phone. I do not whether the unions are messaging him during the debate, but if so, it is very effective.

Of course I will do whatever is useful in this regard. Commercial decisions are being made; we cannot influence all of them, but we can do what we can, and we are trying. We have a very skilled workforce that we do not want to lose, and I am happy to meet, work with and walk alongside our colleagues who are working in Northern Ireland.

I thank the hon. Member for initiating the debate. It is always a joy to talk about what is happening in Northern Ireland, and even more of a joy to be there and see it. I look forward to doing that again soon.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Sarah Jones Excerpts

Thursday 30th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Paul Waugh (Rochdale) (Lab/Co-op)]

16. What progress his Department has made on developing an industrial strategy.

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

This Department and, indeed, Departments across Government are working extensively on developing our industrial strategy, which the Conservative party opposes, but which business and industry welcome. Last month, we launched the Industrial Strategy Advisory Council, comprising a very impressive group of the UK’s top business leaders, policy experts and trade union leaders. My right hon. Friends the Chancellor and the Secretary of State for Business and Trade attended the council’s inaugural meeting on 17 December. In addition, we are currently analysing more than 3,000 responses to the Industrial Strategy Green Paper from businesses, academics, think-tanks and unions, and their insights and feedback are incredibly valuable as we develop the strategy.

[Alan Strickland]

I strongly welcome the inclusion of defence in the draft industrial strategy and was pleased yesterday to host a roundtable in Sedgefield with the Minister for Defence Procurement and Industry. Many of the innovative small and medium-sized enterprises that we talked to spoke of the struggles that they have with red tape, bureaucracy and contracting with Departments across Whitehall. How will Ministers grab the opportunity of the industrial strategy to remove this red tape, which too often can thwart SME growth?

[Sarah Jones]

I am really pleased my hon. Friend held that roundtable. It is quite a turning point to have an industrial strategy with defence as one of the sectors; building new relationships across Departments with colleagues who work in defence is a really powerful and important thing to do. He speaks to a wider problem face by a lot of industry when it comes to dealing with Government agencies and Departments. We are working hard to make these things easier, because growth is our priority and we have to break down those barriers.

[Tracy Gilbert]

It is essential that the Government’s industrial strategy creates manufacturing jobs across the country, including in my constituency. The RenewableUK offshore wind industrial growth plan shows the UK can be a global technology leader in advanced turbine tech, foundations, electrical systems and cables. Will my hon. Friend commit to using our industrial strategy to ensure there is growth in these areas to put British manufacturing at the heart of the clean energy transition?

[Sarah Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question, for her defence of her constituency and for her ambitions, which we share. I believe the report she refers to came out before this Labour Government came to power. With our new policies and the new drive and ambition from our Secretaries of State for Business and Trade and for Energy Security and Net Zero, we are powering forward with our renewable agenda, and we will make sure that all of our growth driving sectors speak to my hon. Friend’s area and everyone’s area of the country and drive growth across the board.

[Sarah Coombes]

Manufacturers in my constituency are really excited about the upcoming industrial strategy and all the growth that will bring. However, steel and aluminium businesses in particular are concerned about the upcoming carbon border adjustment mechanism, the gap with the EU, and whether the whole system will be ready for implementation. If we do not get it right, the CBAM will have a big impact on our ability to trade and on growth, so can the Minister assure me she is going to be working with the Treasury to ensure we get this right and that it supports manufacturers in the west midlands?

[Sarah Jones]

I know my hon. Friend will hold this Government to account on what we are doing and how we are going, and she will push, and already has done, to make sure we are doing everything we can for the industries in her area. The CBAM will be introduced in 2027, and she speaks to concerns that I have heard in conversations around steel in particular, which is very important to this country. That is why we are developing a steel strategy, which will set a future direction of travel for steel, but we are working with the EU and with industry here to make sure the CBAM works and does what it is supposed to do.

[Paul Waugh]

Andy Burnham’s Atom Valley mayoral development zone is creating a world-class supercluster for advanced manufacturing right across 70 million square feet in Rochdale, Oldham, Bury and Middleton. Rochdale’s Kingsway business park will be home to the SMMC—the sustainable materials and manufacturing centre—a world-class cutting-edge research centre. Will the Minister join me in supporting the SMMC, and perhaps arrange a visit either by herself or the Secretary of State to see what is happening with the jobs of the future in Rochdale?

[Sarah Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for bringing to the House the work that is going on for the Atom Valley development zone, which is incredibly important and exactly what we want to see. The Mayor of Greater Manchester is to be congratulated for his leadership in this space as well. I am very interested in the work my hon. Friend refers to, not least because of the critical minerals strategy we are developing and the graphene work that I know will be under way in the manufacturing centre hub, so I very much look forward to talking further to him about what is happening and how we can help.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Why is it that the Government’s energy policy is driving uncompetitive energy costs in absolutely the wrong direction? Sir Jim Ratcliffe has pointed out that the principal threat to any strategy is actually the uncompetitive costs for those enterprises that will have to populate it.

[Sarah Jones]

This Government inherited very high energy costs from the previous Government, who had taken no action to make our country more energy secure. We are powering through to have clean, green, home-grown energy that will bring costs down and make sure we are secure as a country and not reliant on the whims of global leaders and the price of oil and gas. We will bring those costs down and we will support our industry, which I am afraid the previous Government failed to do.

[Chris Law (Dundee Central) (SNP)]

Over the past week, the UK Government have committed to support a runway in London, a football stadium in Manchester and a science corridor for Oxford and Cambridge, yet for the past year, Conservative and Labour Governments have failed to act to secure the long-term future of Grangemouth, after INEOS announced the closure of the oil refinery. Despite general election promises to step in and save the plant, why are the Labour Government willing to jeopardise jobs at Grangemouth, the country’s energy security, which the Minister has just spoken passionately about the need to secure, and the wider industrial strategy through this inaction?

[Sarah Jones]

The hon. Member will be pleased to hear that we have re- established a working group with the Scottish First Minister and the Welsh and Northern Irish leaderships to make sure we are working collectively, because we do not want to take a party political approach to the growth of all our nations. We are collaborating well with the Scottish Government on Grangemouth, where we are working at pace and putting in investment and support. We are working to transition people from North sea oil and gas into the new energies of the future. There is the passport that we published, and we have set up Great British Energy, which will be headquartered in Aberdeen. A lot of work is going on, and we need the Scottish Government to support us in that work. We will work in partnership, because that is what will create good jobs.

[Sir Gavin Williamson (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge) (Con)]

The chemical industry is an important employer in my constituency, with the HEX Group and SI Group employing many people. As mentioned, Sir Jim Ratcliffe is already highlighting the extinction of the British chemical industry. My chemical manufacturers need to ensure that they are buying energy at the same price as manufacturers in Germany, the Netherlands and France. When will they be able to do that?

[Sarah Jones]

The chemical industry has been suffering for many years because of the previous Government’s economic policies, crashing the economy under Liz Truss and failing to deal with energy prices over multiple years. I have met the chemical industry. It is an important part of our economy, and we need to do what we can to protect it. I am having conversations, and we are building our energy policies. We are building our industrial strategy.

[Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)]

Word salad!

[Sarah Jones]

Word salad? Gosh. That abuse from the Opposition Front Bench has cut me to the core. The industrial strategy has set out eight sectors that will turbocharge the economy. Across all those sectors lie our foundational sectors, of which the chemical industry is one. We will support that industry in a way that his Government failed to do.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Dame Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

I will try to avoid a word salad. We have heard from various different industrial sectors how important it is to have stable and predictable energy costs. This month has seen little sun and only intermittent wind, so we have been heavily dependent on imported oil and gas. Are Ministers in the Department for Business and Trade challenging the Energy Secretary over his policies?

[Sarah Jones]

I am disappointed by the hon. Lady’s approach to this matter, and I am disappointed by the Conservative party’s overall abandonment of previously strongly held views about the need to balance climate change with our economy. It is a fact that we are moving faster towards renewable energy. Last year, 50% of our energy came from renewables for the first time. We are growing them at pace because they are cheaper. Onshore wind is the cheapest form of energy we have, solar is very cheap and floating offshore wind brings us huge opportunities. Renewables will bring our costs down and make sure we are energy secure, and they go hand in glove with growth, as the Chancellor set out in her speech yesterday.

[Dame Harriett Baldwin]

The Minister’s Government have changed policy to not issue any new licences for domestic oil and gas, so we will become more dependent on imports at times when solar and wind are not working, unless we can increase nuclear generation. It is Nuclear Week in Parliament, so what pressure is she putting on the Energy Secretary to make new nuclear an important part of our industrial strategy?

[Sarah Jones]

I sit jointly in the Department for Business and Trade and the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero, so the hon. Lady can be reassured that I talk to my colleagues and am working with them. Indeed, I am leading on hydrogen and carbon capture, which is an important part of the mix. We are clear that nuclear is an important part of our future and that the strongest approach to deliver energy security and bring prices down is to have all the opportunities available to us and to build at pace. That is why we are trebling our solar, doubling our wind and supporting big nuclear as well as small modular reactors. She can be reassured that we are putting a strategy in place, which the previous Government failed to do.

[Mrs Sureena Brackenridge (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab)]

5. What progress his Department has made on developing a steel strategy.

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

I delighted to tell my hon. Friend that we are working hard on our steel strategy. Immediately after we have finished these questions, I will be going to Sheffield to talk to the industry about future demand. Steel is an important industry for our future, to which we have made a £2.5 billion commitment. We will ensure that we turn around the decline we saw under the previous Government and deliver a steel industry fit for the future.

[Mrs Sureena Brackenridge (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab)]

The steel industry is an important part of Wolverhampton North East’s heritage and must remain a part of our future. Will my hon. Friend outline how the £2.5 billion UK steel strategy and the new steel council will boost competitiveness and secure jobs at Tata’s Steelpark in Wednesfield, which is the UK’s largest processing and distribution centre?

[Sarah Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for standing up for her community and protecting her industry. I would be happy to have a conversation with her about the changes she thinks we need to make.

Steel output in the UK fell by 49% in 2021, by 30% in 2022 and by 11% in 2023—what an awful thing to have happened to our industry. We need to turn that around. We do not underestimate how hard that will be, but we are putting in place the money, the policies and the Government dedication to ensure that we support a thriving steel industry.

[Bradley Thomas (Bromsgrove) (Con)]

6. What steps he is taking to support high street businesses.

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[Steve Race (Exeter) (Lab)]

8. What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the UK in attracting international investment.

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

Through increased inward investment, we can innovate, create jobs and deliver on our growth mission to become the fastest-growing nation in the G7. We have wasted no time: on top of the £63 billion raised at our international investment summit, our new national wealth fund has already leveraged £1.6 billion of private sector investment, and we have outlined ambitious plans for planning reform alongside a modern industrial strategy to secure record levels of investment.

[Mohammad Yasin]

I am honoured to have been appointed as the UK trade envoy to Pakistan. Given the growing financial pressure on UK universities, with several leading institutions announcing job cuts amid the deepening funding crisis, what steps is the Department taking to foster stronger educational partnerships with Pakistan to help alleviate financial pressures in the sector in the UK, while supporting Pakistan’s educational goals?

[Sarah Jones]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on his appointment as the trade envoy to Pakistan. I can think of no one better, and I know he will make a big difference in that role. The Government took the decision to reappoint Professor Sir Steve Smith as our international education champion to ensure that the UK-Pakistan education partnership’s work continues as part of the international education strategy, which is now jointly led by the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, the Department for Education and the Department for Business and Trade. Led by Sir Steve, the UK has worked closely with the Pakistan Higher Education Commission on revising Pakistan’s new transnational education policy. That work will continue, and I am sure my hon. Friend will bring great help to it.

[Steve Race]

The south-west is home to an incredibly important economy based on defence, food security, space, maritime, and, in Exeter, life sciences and climate tech and research. We are also home to huge green energy potential, utilising floating offshore wind. However, we currently need investment in our port facilities so that the new green jobs will be based in the south-west, not in France or elsewhere. Will the Minister meet me, along with colleagues and the sector, to discuss to the future of green energy generation in the south-west?

[Sarah Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. I saw the talent and potential for myself when I visited Exeter in September for Great South West’s annual conference. I am visiting the region again in a few weeks, because there is huge potential, huge excitement and huge opportunities to grow. As he knows, there is £1.8 billion from the national wealth fund to invest in our ports. I am very happy to meet him and others to see what potential we can discuss.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Clive Jones (Wokingham) (LD)]

I declare an interest: a family member has shares in a medical company.

In the United States, President Trump created chaos by freezing funding for the National Institutes of Health, and his nominee for US Health Secretary is an anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist. The United Kingdom has the perfect opportunity to seize this moment and make ourselves a beacon for global research investment. Already, Wokingham has many pharmaceutical businesses, such as Becton Dickinson and Hollister. What steps is the Minister taking to ensure we attract global life sciences sectors to the UK?

[Sarah Jones]

I was in Davos last week meeting representatives from the life sciences industry and talking about the huge potential for growth that we have in the UK. One of the eight sectors we have identified as part of the industrial strategy, is life sciences, where we have huge talent and huge skills. We need to build on that and be really ambitious in what we can deliver. Through the industrial strategy and the work with the brilliant industries we have in this country, we can do just that.

[Sir John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con)]

9. What steps he is taking to help increase business confidence.

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[Rachel Taylor (North Warwickshire and Bedworth) (Lab)]

18. What steps his Department is taking to support the automotive industry.

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

As we have already discussed, the automotive sector is absolutely vital to the Government’s plans for green economic growth, and for growing the economy more widely. That is why, at the Budget, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor committed to ensuring over £2 billion of capital and research and development funding before 2030 for zero emission vehicle manufacturing and its supply chains. We are also consulting the industry to make sure that the zero emissions transition works for the UK’s car industry, and working with the automotive transformation fund and the Advanced Propulsion Centre to make sure that we carry on innovating and seeing the growth of the automotive sector in the UK.

[Rachel Taylor]

Around 3,000 of my constituents in North Warwickshire and Bedworth work in the automotive sector. I have met representatives of many small and medium-sized businesses that provide engineering and manufacturing services for the sector, as well as Jaguar Land Rover, which has a battery assembly centre in my constituency. A career in the automotive industry should be an attractive prospect to many young people in my constituency. What is the Minister doing to support the sector in upskilling its workforce and providing apprenticeship schemes, so that companies are not left relying on immigration to fill skills gaps?

[Sarah Jones]

My hon. Friend makes a really good point. There is a lot of work under way to look at skills across the board, because thus far no Government have had a proper strategy on the skills that we need, and on how we make sure that we train our own people, so that we do not have to rely on immigration. There are examples in the automotive sector of absolutely brilliant apprenticeship schemes that other industries can learn from, and we are working with Skills England. I have regular meetings with colleagues in the Department for Education, the Home Office and the Department for Work and Pensions to make sure that we crack this nut and encourage people to go into good, well-paid jobs.

[Sally Jameson (Doncaster Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

The Secretary of State and the Minister for Trade Policy and Economic Security are at the funeral of the late, great John Prescott. In this place, we remember him.

Yesterday, the Chancellor set out this Government’s plan for growth, our vision for the country and our path to putting more money in people’s pockets, reviving our high streets and supporting thriving businesses that create wealth, jobs and new opportunities. I was in Davos last week with the Chancellor and the Business Secretary, and there was enthusiasm about investing in a country that believes in open and free trade, that is resetting its relationship with the EU, that is forging new free trade agreements and that is creating stability here in the UK economy. It is little surprise that the UK has just been ranked by PwC as the second most attractive country in the world for investment.

We recognise that growth will not come without a fight, which is why we are pressing ahead with our industrial strategy, and channelling support for eight growth-driving sectors of our economy. It is why we are developing our small business strategy and working across all Government Departments to deliver the growth we need. We are supporting the Prime Minister’s plan for change, putting more money into people’s pockets and realising a new decade of national renewal.

[Sally Jameson]

Yesterday, the Chancellor announced that the Government will work with Mayor Ros Jones and the Mayor of South Yorkshire to reopen Doncaster airport, so will the Minister meet Doncaster MPs to discuss how the Department can meaningfully help? Will she also acknowledge that the growth agenda will be a success only if areas like Doncaster, South Yorkshire and the north are a critical part of it?

[Sarah Jones]

My hon. Friend makes a good point, and I would be happy to meet a group of MPs from her area. The ambition on airport expansion was very clear in the Chancellor’s speech yesterday. We are hungry for growth; we set that need alongside the need to decarbonise our airspace. Yesterday, I chaired a meeting of industry experts looking at how we can turbocharge our decarbonisation of aviation.

I would be pleased to meet my hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster Central (Sally Jameson), and I agree that we need to grow all parts of the UK to make this work.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

[Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)]

Next week, members of the Public and Commercial Services Union in the Department for Business and Trade are once again out on strike. Does the Minister consider the union’s demands to be reasonable? Will Ministers cross picket lines to return to work?

[Sarah Jones]

The shadow Secretary of State shows a new-found respect for the trade unions, after the previous Government’s failure to engage with them caused multiple strikes and huge amounts of wasted money. The contract is not directly with the Department, but obviously we work with PCS and all our trade unions. I regularly meet our trade unions to make sure that we have good workers’ rights.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Alison Hume (Scarborough and Whitby) (Lab)]

T3. The UK has the world’s largest deposits of polyhalite, which is used as a low-carbon fertiliser but is not on the Government’s list of critical minerals. The extraction of polyhalite is being developed at the Woodsmith mine near Whitby, employing over 1,000 people. Will the Minister meet me to discuss polyhalite’s inclusion on the critical minerals list, given the potential of the deposits at Woodsmith to cut carbon emissions, boost exports and create skilled jobs?

[Sarah Jones]

I met Anglo American to talk about Woodsmith just a couple of weeks ago when I was in Saudi Arabia, and it is an important site. I promised to go and see it, so perhaps I can go with my hon. Friend. It is important that the critical minerals strategy we are developing marks a step change from the previous Government’s strategy, which just looked at a moment in time and said, “We need to do a bit more of this, that and the other.” We will have targets, will be driving forward, and will look at our future demand. We are going to look at the eight sectors that we want to grow, consider what critical minerals we need, and think about how to ensure that we have the supply chains to get it right.

[Mr Joshua Reynolds (Maidenhead) (LD)]

T2. The outgoing chair of the Competition and Markets Authority warned of the authority being vulnerable to “expediency or vested interests”. Does the Minister believe that appointing a former Amazon executive produces that risk?

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[Luke Murphy (Basingstoke) (Lab)]

T4.  Basingstoke is a digital powerhouse, once dubbed the “silicon suburb”. It is home to over a thousand tech companies and thousands of high-quality tech jobs. Will the Minister set out what the Government are doing to support high productivity digital hubs, like Basingstoke, to scale, secure investment and contribute towards the Government’s national growth mission?

[Sarah Jones]

My hon. Friend is right that there is a lot of expertise and a lot of tech companies in his patch, and we want to see them thrive. It is for the Government to support that growth, to listen to what the barriers to growth are and to tackle them. Our digital development strategy, the UK’s digital strategy and our AI strategy, which the Prime Minister launched, are all vehicles to support these brilliant industries that we want to encourage. I am always happy to talk to my hon. Friend about what more we can do to encourage more of them on to his patch.

[Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)]

T8. My constituent, Charlotte Durrant, runs a plant shop called the Aroid Attic on Bath Road in Cheltenham. Before Brexit, she was able to import her plants from the Netherlands with no bureaucracy and without any import duties. Do Ministers agree that a customs union with the European Union would solve that problem? If they do not agree with that, do they agree that more needs to be done to help small and medium-sized enterprises like Charlotte’s to tackle the competition from larger supermarkets, which are her main competitors?

[Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab)]

T5. Despite repeated Government and union engagement, it seems that Luton could be set to lose one of its largest private sector employers, as Stellantis closes its Vauxhall plant, despite our excellent transport connections, skilled work- force and proud industrial heritage. In the light of that devastating blow, does the Minister recognise the importance of Luton airport as a tool to invest in growth and attract private sector employment to our town?

[Sarah Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for her work supporting workers at Stellantis. I met several of her colleagues and representatives from Stellantis this week, who I meet regularly. We stand ready to talk to them about whatever they need to remain. The consultation finished on 24 January and we await the final decision. She makes a good point about Luton airport, which I use very often because there are very good train links from Croydon to Luton. I should say that there are also good train links from Croydon to Gatwick. We know that the Secretary of State will be making a decision in due course, but the direction of travel on growth and breaking down barriers was clear in the Chancellor’s speech yesterday.

[Sir John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con)]

T9. Despite the very brief answer given by Under-Secretary of State for Business and Trade, the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Bromborough (Justin Madders) to the question asked by the hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mr Reynolds), is he aware that there is widespread concern among small and medium-sized tech firms and trade associations about the replacement of the chair of the Competition and Markets Authority by a former Amazon executive? Will the Government make clear their commitment to the operational independence of the CMA and the Digital Markets Unit, and to obtaining stronger competition in digital markets?

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[Ian Lavery (Blyth and Ashington) (Lab)]

T7. This week saw DeepSeek throw the global tech market into utter meltdown, with the Chinese AI app spooking investors, to say the least. With huge national infra- structure projects required to underpin the UK’s place in the AI revolution, what does this turmoil mean for projects such as the Blackstone AI data centre in Cambois in Bedlingtonshire, in my constituency?

[Sarah Jones]

My hon. Friend and I have previously talked about this great opportunity. The rapid development and breakthrough of new AI models such as DeepSeek tell us that we need to go further and faster to remove barriers to innovation and make Britain the most competitive market. We need to be developing the technology ourselves. That is why we have set out our new AI strategy and why we are scaling up our capacity, creating AI growth zones and putting in place every vehicle we can to support the growth of technology innovation in our country, because we will need it in future.

Solar Farms: Agricultural Land

Sarah Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 28th January 2025 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Sarah Jones)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Desmond. I congratulate the hon. Member for South Cotswolds (Dr Savage) on securing this important debate and the number of interventions she received in such a short period of time reflects the strength of feeling.

Before I set out the Government’s approach, I reassure the hon. Lady and her constituents that we agree on most things in this space. We agree that we should be using renewables—whatever they are, wherever they are—in the best way possible. We agree that we need to look at our responsibilities in terms of the climate, agriculture, the countryside and food production. The Government take all those responsibilities very seriously and look them at very carefully. We agree that if we are building solar panels, for example, we should build on brownfield sites first. If we cannot, we should build on areas of lower-quality land first. We agree that food security is enormously important for this country. In the global conditions we find ourselves in, where there is more uncertainty—as we saw with the war in Ukraine and what followed with our energy prices—we need to be mindful of those things. When it comes to the principles, we agree.

I will set out the Government’s overall approach to our clean power mission, which might help to put the debate in context. We, like the hon. Member for South Cotswolds, have been clear from the start that the only way to tackle climate change, secure our energy supply, bring down bills and drive economic growth is through clean energy. The rapid deployment of clean energy infrastructure is essential for our future security and economy.

[Greg Smith]

Is it not the case that the Government are just plumping for the technology that is available right now, in the form of thousands of acres of solar, when we need 2,000 acres of solar panels to produce enough electricity for just 50,000 homes on current usage? A small modular reactor needs just two football pitches for 1 million homes. As I have said many times, why on earth are the Government messing about with solar given its impacts on food security, which the hon. Member for South Cotswolds (Dr Savage) mentioned?

[Sarah Jones]

The previous Government messed around with solar quite a lot—we are building on what the previous Government did, up to a point. The answer is to look at all the technologies that are available to us. SMRs are enormously attractive in lots of different ways, and lots of colleagues have been talking to us about them. As the hon. Gentleman knows, there is a process for the development of SMRs. We need all the tools in our armoury and we need to make sure we are using the most modern technology available. He makes a fair point on that front.

Sustainable power generated here in Britain will reduce our contribution to the damaging effects of climate change and our dependence on the volatile global fossil fuel market. It is already creating thousands of highly skilled jobs and will continue to do so. Instead of delaying the inevitable, we have set ourselves a target to push to clean power by 2030. The clean power action plan, published last month, sets out how we will get there, including the likely technology mix required. It is clear that solar will play a major role.

[Richard Fuller (North Bedfordshire) (Con)]

On the Minister’s comments about the Government’s announcements in December and the subsequent announcement by the National Energy System Operator about moving forward rapidly with renewable energy, and in relation to East Park Energy, which is a proposal in my constituency whereby 74% of the land used would be best and most versatile land, in neither the December statement nor the January announcement by NESO was there any reference at all to the criterion on use of best and most versatile land. Can the Minister just affirm that that criterion is still used in the assessment of which projects the Government will move forward?

[Sarah Jones]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I cannot comment on the individual case in his constituency, of course. But of course when developers are applying for planning permission, they go through a series of criteria and have to adhere to a series of criteria, whether that is for the development of smaller solar plants, where it goes through local authorities, or whether it is through the nationally significant infrastructure project process. The solar taskforce is looking at all these issues as well. We are making sure we are mindful of all of the range of issues that we need to consider when we are looking at bringing infrastructure into communities. I will come to this later, but it is really important to say that we want to do this with local communities—with consultation of local communities and with consideration of what other options are available to us as well. That will continue.

Solar is one of the cheapest sources of power available to us, which is an important consideration when we are looking at the full range of options that we have between us. We are setting a target for around 45 GW to 47 GW of solar power by 2030. That is up from the 17 GW that we have today and it is a substantial increase.

I want to tackle the issue that a number of Members mentioned—the rooftop versus ground-mount issue. The hon. Member for South Cotswolds is right to talk about how we need to be going further to make sure we are putting solar panels on our roofs, and to ask what Government can do to encourage that. We are bringing in new building standards to ensure that all newly built houses and commercial buildings are fit for a net zero future. We expect those standards to encourage the installation of solar panels on new developments. We are issuing later this year a call for evidence on the construction of solar on outdoor car parks. The reconvened solar taskforce is focusing on rooftop solar, and further actions to increase deployment will be set out in the road map this spring.

I was talking to one of our big mayoral authorities yesterday about the power purchase agreements that people could potentially have in this space. If people look at public sector roofs and the collaboration they could have across some of our transport infrastructure and some of our public sector infrastructure, they could do more ambitious projects when it comes to solar, and of course we want to push that as much as we can. If we can put solar panels on rooftops, that is what we want to do. But we consider that we need a mix of both: we need ground-mounted and rooftop panels to get to the numbers that we want to see.

Let me turn to the planning system. All proposed solar projects are subject to a rigorous planning process, which considers the interests of local communities, as I said to the hon. Member for North Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller).

[Ben Obese-Jecty (Huntingdon) (Con)]

In my constituency of Huntingdon, a new solar farm of 1,900 acres is proposed. It spans from my constituency across into North Bedfordshire, which my hon. Friend the Member for North Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller) represents. The local population have spent a lot of time liaising with both me and my hon. Friend with regard to the impact that it will have and the lack of consultation that they have experienced. They have been told that realistically, they will receive no real benefit from the solar farm’s being there. They will certainly not receive directly cheaper energy bills for having it built right on their doorstep. What would the Minister say to those constituents, and the constituents of the other Members in this room, who are in effect having nationally significant infrastructure projects foisted on them and who do not feel that they have a say or any real ability to push back on that?

[Sarah Jones]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. He expresses a concern that local Members of Parliament will always have when constituents come to them with issues. Look, we are balancing an issue when it comes to solar. At the moment, about 0.1% of all our land in the UK—and, it turns out, about 0.1% of all agricultural land as a proportion as well—has solar on it. Even if we were to reach our targets or go beyond them, it would still be less than 1% of land. We have to look at that statistic, but we also have to look at the local situation, which is where we absolutely accept that we are asking people to have infrastructure in their communities that will affect them. It could change their view, change their roles or change the jobs that are available; it has an impact. Through our clean power action plan, we are looking at the community benefit systems that we need to put in place. I cannot speak to the hon. Gentleman’s particular case because it is going through a process and it would not be right for me to do so, but I am mindful of what he says about the need for communities to feel like they will have some direct benefits and to understand why we need some of this infrastructure.

The reality is that we have not kept up to speed with infrastructure developments in this country over the past couple of decades, and we need to move faster. Whether it is our grid system, renewable energy or our transport systems, we need to build these things for our children and grandchildren to have the future that we want to see. Of course we need to be mindful of the impact and how local people feel. That is why, for the nationally significant infrastructure projects, there is still consultation and strong engagement with communities. That needs to get better, and we are looking at that through our clean power action plan.

I am mindful of the time. I want to move on to food security, which the hon. Member for South Cotswolds mentioned. Food security is national security, and it is very important for this Government. We need a resilient and healthy food system that works with nature and supports British farmers, fishers and food producers. That is why the Government will introduce a new deal for farmers to boost rural economic growth and strengthen Britain’s food security.

[Tim Farron]

The Minister is being very generous; I am grateful. The concern is that farmers are often pushed into things that they would not choose initially—such as giving over productive agricultural land for stuff that is not food production. Because of the perversity of Government funding changes, perhaps the most egregious thing in the Budget was the 76% cut in the basic payment for farmers this year, which will make many of them feel that their hand is forced to go down a direction that they do not want to go down. Might the Minister have a word with the Treasury to see whether that cut could be taken away?

[Sarah Jones]

I hear the hon. Gentleman’s point. The wider point about farmers being pushed according to EU or local subsidies over the years is of course right, and we need to get the balance right. I will speak to the numbers again: we are looking to go from 17 GW to around 45 GW, which is a trebling of the current land use of 0.1%. We are talking about small numbers, although I appreciate that in some constituencies, such as that of the hon. Member for South Cotswolds, it will feel much bigger because there are more of these products coming along.

Of course we need to get our system right for farmers. I am a Member of Parliament in Croydon, where we do not have many farmers, but I am incredibly grateful to them for their role and the work that they do, and we need to make sure that we support them. Where it is necessary to develop agricultural land—and we need to start with the basics of using other land first where we can—we do not think it will have any significant impact on food security because of the numbers: less than 1% of the UK’s agricultural land will be occupied by solar farms. We do not believe that will have an impact on our food security.

[Adrian Ramsay (Waveney Valley) (Green)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Sarah Jones]

I will finish my point, because it is connected to the point made by the hon. Member for South Cotswolds. The biggest threat to British farmers in the countryside is not solar farms; it is the impact of climate change, and we are already seeing the effects in the floods and droughts that are threatening their livelihoods. We have to be mindful of that when we are trying to tackle climate change and increase the use of solar.

[Adrian Ramsay]

I appreciate the principles that the Minister is setting out, particularly on the impact of climate change on food security. Every model of net zero energy that I have seen includes a greater role for renewable energy on land, but is there not a risk that without a clear land use strategy that shows how we will achieve a resilient food supply while meeting net zero targets, decisions about where solar farms are located will end up getting made on a piecemeal basis, rather than the basis that the Minister is setting out?

[Sarah Jones]

The hon. Gentleman has predicted that I was about to talk about the land use framework. He is right. The Government recognise that England has limited land, and the use demands on it include our vital clean energy infrastructure. The Government will deliver our manifesto commitment by introducing a land use framework so that we can consider how to balance competing demands and transform how we use land. That will support economic growth and deliver on the plan for change that the Prime Minister outlined last month. The framework will work hand in hand with the strategic spatial energy plan, which we have commissioned the National Energy System Operator to devise. The hon. Gentleman is right that we have to understand the whole before we make piecemeal decisions, and our criticism of the previous Government is that those overarching plans were lacking.

[Pippa Heylings]

On that point, would it therefore be right to consider not overruling the Planning Inspectorate just now, in the build-up to receiving the land use framework and the strategic spatial energy plan from NESO, before making these big infrastructure decisions? We would take the public with us if they understood that we will decide where solar farms go once we have the land use framework and the strategic spatial energy plan.

[Sarah Jones]

I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. We already have a planning system that enables us to look at individual projects. The new Government will set those strategic frameworks, but we have to allow the legal processes to continue while we do that. We will see an increase in the push to 2030 and beyond that. We want to see, through good government, a proper national framework that puts these issues in place.

I want to touch again on the community benefits, which hon. Members have raised. I cannot stress enough that communities hosting clean energy infrastructure are doing a service to our country, and they need to benefit from that. It could be argued that we will all benefit in the long term as energy prices come down and we have more energy security, but there are many ways that communities can directly benefit, including through community funds, direct payments and community ownership. We are exploring all the options, and we will have more to say about that soon. In the meantime, Great British Energy will support community energy schemes, helping communities to unlock opportunities through the local power plan, which will support local authorities, community energy groups and others to deliver small and medium-scale renewable energy projects. It could develop up to 8 GW of clean power by 2030.

I thank the hon. Member for South Cotswolds for securing the debate, and other hon. Members for their very thoughtful interventions. The Government remain committed to balancing the urgent need for renewable electricity with considerations of land use, food production and community benefit. We want to take people with us on this journey, which will see us going into the future with a mix of renewable energy that delivers the lower prices that we all want to see.

Question put and agreed to.