Scotland: General Election and Constitutional Future

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Wednesday 17th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP) [V]]

It is a great pleasure to sum up this debate. My only regret is that I am not in the Chamber to deliver the speech personally. As you know, Mr Deputy Speaker, I always enjoy my little exchanges with and interventions from my friends on the Conservative Benches. Listening to their contributions today, it is a frustration that I can only send all my love to them virtually.

Some fantastic contributions have been made by my hon. Friends today and then there were some speeches from Conservative Members. How these debates usually go is that we make the positive case about Scotland and all the opportunities that independence will present to our nation. We talk of Scottish democracy, the claim of right and the Scottish people’s inalienable right to determine their own future, and then the Conservatives get to their feet to tell us why none of this is possible and why we would be better off with them and the Governments they would impose on us. Today has been a sort of variation on that theme, with so many of our Conservative friends telling us what we should be debating today, somewhat forgetting that this is our Opposition day and that, with all due respect to them, it is really a matter for us.

Independence and the constitution is the defining issue in Scottish politics and, if anything, it is not debated enough. In the latest STV poll, independence was rated as the most important issue that would influence the choice of the Scottish people—it was at 44%. My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East (Tommy Sheppard) was spot on when he said that when it comes to how we recover from covid, undoubtedly the most important issue in Scotland, we need the full powers of independence to fully secure the recovery that Scotland requires.

I always wonder what exactly the Scottish people think when they watch these debates and some of the curious views of Conservative Members—I am sure they find it all very amusing and bewildering. One of the reasons we bring these debates to the House is to allow the Scottish people a glimpse of the Westminster Tories’ thinking on our nation. Our friends are in fact the biggest recruiting sergeants we have. I thank all of them again for all their efforts and for everything that they do for the cause of Scottish independence. Their efforts will not be forgotten and, in a few short years, the Independence Cross, first class will be awarded to everyone from the hon. Member for Eastleigh (Paul Holmes) to the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mark Fletcher). If I can, I will personally present them.

The choice that will be offered to the people of Scotland in the next few weeks is, “Who do you want to run our beautiful country? You, the people of Scotland, who live and work here, or them, Boris Johnson’s Conservatives and all their Brexit horror”. I was trying to discern from the speeches what exactly they still have to offer Scotland. Listening to Conservative Members today, it is quite clear that their Union has run its course and that it has absolutely nothing more to offer the Scottish people. There is no positive vision for Scotland in their Union. They have nothing more to offer, nothing more to give. The key thing in all this is the future, and Scotland must secure what it votes for. Democracy must be everything to us. Scotland must have the right to choose and define its own future.

In the past few months, the Government have tried to suggest to the people of Scotland that their democracy can be ignored and rejected as they consistently assert that they will not agree to participate in another referendum. All the lofty ideals of 2014—“Lead the UK, not leave the UK”, near federalism, “We love you, please stay”—have descended into this: “We will keep you as part of this Union against your will.” The slogan for the next election could well be, “Scotland, we have nothing to offer you but our chains”. What a pitiful condition the Union is in when it has descended into nothing other than an attempt to keep us captive.

I say to the Conservatives that there is a way to stop our referendum and that is to beat us in an election. It really is as simple as that. If the Conservatives win the next Scottish election, they will win the right to stop a referendum, but they are not considering stopping a referendum simply through democratic means. This is where it all starts to become deeply troubling. Their main means of stopping a referendum is to ignore and bypass democracy, impose their will, ignore elections and democratic outcomes, and say no to a majority. What a dreadful place to be even for this Conservative Government, with their cavalier disregard for so many democratic principles.

The Conservatives also know that the situation is unsustainable. They cannot keep a nation in a political Union in the 21st century against its will. Even they know that. When their Union becomes a prison, it has simply failed. They also know that saying no does nothing other than drive up support for independence even higher. If the SNP wins a majority in May and replicates the conditions of 2011, they know that it is game over.

While the Conservatives are saying that they rule out a referendum, they continue to prepare for one. We have seen the resources being ploughed in and the capacity that they are building. We see it in every piece of election material that is going through every door in Scotland just now, where they tell us that only by voting for the Scottish Conservatives can people stop an independence referendum. It is a curious strategy when they have supposedly ruled out that referendum.

I concede that today has been a bit more encouraging. I have looked at their amendment and listened to them very carefully. None of them has actually ruled out a referendum and our nation’s right to choose, other than, curiously—from Labour—the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray). There is this weird tension that runs through everything that they are doing just now. We need only look at the demise of their Union unit to see that in all its glory. Essentially, they are conflicted as to whether to behave more consensually towards us or whether to continue to attack and undermine us. They really do not know whether to cuddle us or clobber us.

Their Union unit was the frontline between the cuddlers and the clobberers and it was so dysfunctional that even after its demise, I still do not know who actually won that battle. One minute it is “the full malky” Unionism, a full-frontal attack on our institutions, a constraining of our democracy and a disregard for our legislation, but they know that this aggressive “sink the heid” Unionism has been an absolute disaster for them. The Scottish people very much cherish their Parliament. They see attacks on it as attacks on themselves. And then comes the cuddling. The cuddlers now seem intent on getting us to love them by covering the country in Union Jacks as a sign of their largesse. Nothing could be more designed to irritate the Scottish people than that. When I first heard of this, I thought that it was some sort of grotesque joke, but they are actually serious about it. I do not know who advises them on all this nonsense, but all I can say to our agents and snoopers in Whitehall is that they are doing a great job. It will soon be time to come home. May will be the great independence election. I know the Conservatives have been encouraged by a couple of opinion polls showing support for the Union coming back a bit, and they have taken delight in one today that asked the Brexit question, not the independence one.

This is going to be an election about our future. I say to the Conservatives, “Let’s be constructive. Let’s work together with the principle of democracy at the heart of everything we do together. If it is clear that the Scottish people want to secure a referendum on independence, let’s respect that.” If the Conservatives win in May, they earn the right to stop a referendum. If we win, with the backing of the Scottish people, that must be respected too. Beyond democracy there is only chaos. Let us all agree to be democrats.

Oral Answers to Questions

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Wednesday 27th January 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jack]

I wish my hon. Friend many happy returns, and my birthday present to him is to say that I could not agree with him more. Rather than waste time on a divisive separatist agenda, the Scottish Government should be working with us to defeat the pandemic and to recover our economy.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP) [V]]

I did not quite detect an answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mhairi Black) when she asked how the Scottish people could now secure a referendum on independence. We can dispute the merits of that, and I am sure we will, but does the Secretary of State accept that this is now what the Scottish people want? Twenty opinion polls in a row indicate that, so how do the Scottish people democratically acquire the right to have what they want in a referendum?

Oral Answers to Questions

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Wednesday 11th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jack]

The Union connectivity review that I referred to earlier and the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill, which is currently going through Parliament, will both promote the economic ties that my hon. Friend refers to. They will protect vital trading links and improve transport links.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP) [V]]

The Secretary of State is doing such a fantastic job of strengthening the Union that support for independence is at a historic high and has been at a sustained majority all year. Saying no to a majority in Scotland is only going to drive support for independence even higher. Apparently, he was only joking when he said that there would be no indyref for 40 years, just after John Major said that there would be two referendums in the next few years. The Secretary of State is renowned for his legendary wit and humour, but the Scottish people are not finding this democracy denial funny anymore. What is the difference between denying a majority in the Trump White House and denying a majority in the Scotland Office?

[Mr Jack]

That is quite a tenuous link, but I will answer the question. To be quite simple, my belief is that we should stick to the referendum from 2014 and respect it. It was very clear—the SNP said it at the time —that it was a once-in-a-generation referendum. I do not believe that we should go into a process of neverendums, which are divisive, unsettling and bad for jobs in Scotland. We should respect democracy, and that is what I am doing—democracy that was handed out by the Scottish people in 2014.

Oral Answers to Questions

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Wednesday 7th October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jack]

The Union connectivity review, which is being led by Sir Peter Hendy, who I met yesterday, is a really important initiative for Scotland and the whole United Kingdom, and it will create very exciting opportunities. However, I am concerned that Transport Scotland has been told by the Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity, Michael Matheson, not to engage with the review, and I urge Mr Matheson to think again and to ensure that his officials take part. It cannot be in Scotland’s interest for the SNP to play politics with an issue that is so important to our economic future.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP) [V]]

The Secretary of State says that the job retention scheme is a great example of their Union, but according to his boss, the ever-cheerful hon. Member for Moray (Douglas Ross), the Westminster Tories are not interested in their Union anymore. He says:

“The case for separation is…being made more effectively in London than…in Edinburgh”.

Is his boss right? Are the Westminster Tories full of defeatism about their Union? And if they do not care about their Union, why on earth should the Scottish people?

[Mr Jack]

First, the new leader of the Scottish Conservatives cares deeply about the Union, and that is something that we cannot say for the Scottish nationalist party. But I would go further: he was making the very clear point that Westminster should not devolve and forget. Huge sums of money and support go to Scotland and other parts of the United Kingdom, and he was just pointing out that Departments in Whitehall should stay focused, stay connected and follow up on those funds.

Oral Answers to Questions

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Wednesday 9th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jack]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on his appointment as leader of the Scottish Conservatives. I was sorry to lose him as a Minister, but I got to know him well, and I know very well that he will do an excellent job. He does make a very good point. It is important that we come together to fight this virus and not go back into division and constitutional wrangling. That just basically creates uncertainty and is bad for the Scottish economy and bad for Scottish jobs.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

May I just say ever so gently and candidly to the right hon. Gentleman that he is not presiding over the strengthening of the Union—he is presiding over its demise? Support for independence is now at an all-time high at 55%—but after today it is going to get a lot, lot worse for him. If there was ever any doubt that this Government were determined to override the authority of the Scottish Parliament, it is clause 46 of this disgraceful Bill today. Why does he not man up? Why does he not confess and be honest with the Scottish people and tell them that this is an unadulterated power grab?

Oral Answers to Questions

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Wednesday 20th May 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jack]

This is not the time for the Scottish fiscal framework to be opened up and looked at again. The UK Government have given huge support to the whole United Kingdom through the furlough scheme, the self-employed scheme, the bounce-back loans and the coronavirus business interruption loan scheme. There has been a huge package of measures to keep money in people’s pockets and to keep the economy as strong as it can be when we return to something near normal. Have I argued Scotland’s case? Yes, I have. We have an extension coming on 1 August, running to 31 October. I hope that we can get people back to work over that period and get the economy up and running, to save people’s livelihoods. While we are very focused on saving people’s lives, we must remember that after that comes saving their livelihoods.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP) [V]]

It is so disappointing to see the Secretary of State and his “better together” shadow in the House of Commons in London today. Their Government are telling them to stay at home and not to travel unnecessarily, but there they are in the House of Commons today. The Secretary of State is right that virtual proceedings allow Scottish Members of Parliament to work from home, so why are the Government pulling the plug on the virtual proceedings today? He is the voice of Scots in the Cabinet. What is he doing to ensure that Scots’ voices continue to be heard in the House of Commons on behalf of our constituents and to allow us to do our work?

[Mr Jack]

The hon. Gentleman might be jumping the gun on that, because discussions are ongoing between the Whips Office and the House authorities. I want to make it clear to him that we are not going to put anyone at risk. However, we have to recognise that if we are asking schools to go back and the public to go back to work, we should lead by example, and we should return to a covid-safe—I emphasise that: covid-safe—working environment.

Migration and Scotland

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Tuesday 11th February 2020 Commons Chamber

[Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Streatham) (Lab)]

I thank the SNP for securing this debate. It is often falsely claimed that we never talk about migration in this country; on the contrary, it seems that many on the Government Benches and their supporters never stop talking about immigration. What separates today’s motion from so much else is its attempt to talk rationally about migration. That alone is a breath of fresh air.

Furthermore, today’s motion sets the discussion in terms of what our needs are, wherever we are located. It sets it in terms of what is needed for our society, our education system, our public services and our economy. That must be the right overall approach, otherwise people would be arguing about what immigration system we want, irrespective of the consequences on our society and on our economy. Only a charlatan or worse would argue that they wanted an immigration policy that disregarded the consequences. On close inspection of today’s motion, I can say that it contains nothing objectionable. However, there is one point of disagreement, to which I will return.

It is clear that this Government have taken a high-handed and dismissive approach to the publication of the Scottish Government’s migration needs in “Migration: Helping Scotland Prosper”. It must be correct that the Home Secretary should engage positively with all elected politicians, although yesterday’s urgent question on charter flight deportations shows that that is still a work in progress. Of course, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster should be a man of his word and keep the promises that he made on devolution, all which is entirely reasonable. This is the main content of today’s motion.

My one caveat in relation to the motion, which does not negate my previous remarks, is that we on the Labour Front Bench do not believe that Scotland is a uniquely special case that would require a tailored migration policy. Skills and labour shortages are a common feature across the country. For example, there are more than 100,000 vacancies in the NHS alone. There are enormous shortages of workers in social care. The country lacks skilled engineers. We have labour shortages in agriculture and skills shortages in science and research and in the academy. The Office for National Statistics reports that, altogether, there were still more than 800,000 vacancies in the job market at the beginning of this year. They are concentrated in healthcare and social work, but there are huge shortages of professional and scientific workers.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

We are all grateful to the hon. Lady for her support for this motion. May I gently say to her that I know that there are issues across the rest of the United Kingdom, and that there are skills shortages in large parts of the UK—we found that in our Scottish Affairs Committee inquiry—but in Scotland, we can do something about it. We have a democratic political institution called the Scottish Parliament that can assume these powers and at least make it better for Scotland. Surely, if we can do that, we should do that.

[Bell Ribeiro-Addy]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his remarks.

There are huge shortages of professional and scientific workers, as well as of workers in the wholesale and retail trade and in the hotels and restaurants all across the country. Of course, the Government’s plans for a new migration system do not take that into account. They pretend that they have an Australian-style points-based system, which Professor Alan Manning, the departing chair of the Migration Advisory Committee, has derided as a “soundbite”.

What the Government actually propose is a crude income threshold for immigration, and on that we can agree. It ignores completely those underpaid sectors and jobs where there are skills or labour shortages. It is a system that is set irrespective of the consequences on our society and on our economy. Hospitals need not just brain surgeons but cooks, cleaners and porters too. That applies not just in Scotland but in all the countries and regions.

There are further concerns about what might amount to a devolution of immigration policy. The value that workers provide is the most important contributor to production. There are severe problems created by artificially limiting the flow of labour to where the jobs are, as this Government will do with their Brexit policy. There are further, if less significant, difficulties created by limiting the flow of labour within our nations and regions, as a Scottish-only immigration policy would do. For example, a Scottish NHS trust may recruit a junior doctor from overseas, but, after a few years, that junior doctor may need to further their training, and the best place in which to do so is Birmingham General. How would a Scottish-only visa help them? We could also take the example of an engineer recruited to Aberdeen, who now seeks to fill a post in Leeds, and so on.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Harper]

Let me just finish the point, then I will of course take an intervention. That fact is relative to their populations, and after I have taken the intervention, I might set out one or two reasons why I believe that to be the case.

[Pete Wishart]

Of course, we remember the right hon. Gentleman’s contribution of the “Go Home” vans, which he introduced when he was immigration Minister—but we will leave that aside just now. By pointing out that such a low number of migrants are coming to Scotland, surely he is actually making the case for allowing Scotland to have the ability to recruit more migrants.

[Mr Harper]

First of all, I make no apologies for wanting people who are in the United Kingdom illegally to go back to their countries of origin. People should obey the rules and follow the law, and they should not be here when they shouldn’t be here. I make no apology for that.

The point I was making was that we need to look at the reasons why people may not be choosing to go to Scotland. One of the clear points made in the Scottish Government’s own paper, in which they look at the experience of Canada and Australia, is that it is the economic performance of countries that determines their attractiveness to migrants. I simply note that the United Kingdom’s economy is forecast to grow more quickly than Scotland’s over the next four years, according to both the independent Office for Budget Responsibility and the Scottish Fiscal Commission, which says that the Scottish economy will grow by less than 1% in 2019, less than 1% in 2020, just over 1% in 2021 and just over 1% in 2022—significantly lower than the projected growth rate for the United Kingdom. That suggests to me that if the Scottish Government were more effective in increasing the Scottish growth rate, more migrants may choose to go to Scotland.

Oral Answers to Questions

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Wednesday 8th May 2019 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

1. What recent discussions his Department has had with the Scottish Government on the potential effect on the devolution settlement of the UK leaving the EU.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

2. What recent discussions his Department has had with the Scottish Government on the potential effect on the devolution settlement of the UK leaving the EU.

--- Later in debate ---

[Pete Wishart]

The Secretary of State reinvented history at the weekend when he said:

“I reject the…myth that people were told they would stay in the EU if they voted to stay in the UK”.

The truth is that Scotland voted to stay within the UK but is being dragged screaming and shouting out of the EU against its national collective will. Better Together in fact said:

“What is process for removing our EU citizenship? Voting yes. #scotdecides”.

What part of that tweet did he not quite understand?

[David Mundell]

I was inclined to vote for the hon. Gentleman to succeed your good self, Mr Speaker, before that intemperate question, although I note from his manifesto that he would no longer support independence if he was in your Chair.

I would point the hon. Gentleman to the debate around the EU at the time of the independence referendum, when the former First Minister of Scotland asserted that Scotland would automatically be in the EU as an independent country. That statement proved to be false.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill: Sewel Convention

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Thursday 14th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

We can reach an agreement only with people who want to reach an agreement, and it is clear that Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP have a different interpretation of the current constitution from everyone else. It is also abundantly clear from the weekend and from many of the SNP group’s antics that all they really want is to replace the existing devolution settlement with independence.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

There was really only one thing that we needed to hear from the Secretary of State today—I say this as someone who is fond of the right hon. Gentleman—and that was his resignation. He has presided over this crisis with an ineptness rarely demonstrated on something that required a delicate touch and real negotiating skill, and he has a litany of failed commitments and broken promises. He will be remembered as the Secretary of State who first reversed devolution. He has let our Parliament down, and he has let democracy down. For goodness’ sake, man, just go.

[David Mundell]

That was an uncharacteristically quiet performance from the hon. Gentleman. I presume that it was aimed at achieving gravitas, but I will leave others to speculate as to whether he succeeded. I have not changed the devolution settlement, and the devolution settlement has not changed. The settlement, as achieved in 1998, was clear on the Sewel convention, and we are abiding by it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Wednesday 24th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

First, it is not correct to suggest that non-executive directors take policy decisions in relation to Government Departments. Keith Cochrane has done an excellent job as a non-executive director of the Scotland Office, and I pay tribute to him as one of Scotland’s most respected businessmen. However, in order not to become a distraction at a time of very important work for the Scotland Office, he has decided to step aside from his responsibilities until the investigation into Carillion and any subsequent inquiries are complete.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

May I also wish you a very happy Burns season, Mr Speaker?

The Secretary of State talked of a powers bonanza and could not list one new power. He promised amendments on clause 11 and no such amendments were tabled. Can we now believe another word he says in this House?

[David Mundell]

I know that the hon. Gentleman does not necessarily have the best of relations with some people in the Scottish Government, but perhaps he could have a word with them about the publication of the frameworks. I am keen that we publish what has been agreed in relation to frameworks, but the current position of the Scottish Government is that that should not be published.

[Pete Wishart]

The right hon. Gentleman is personally responsible for a breakdown in the relationship between this House and the Scottish Government, and the breakdown in relationships between all the Members of this House. The Brexit Secretary today has suggested that the right hon. Gentleman is the blockage to progress. He has accepted full responsibility for not producing these amendments. Has he now had the time to think about his own position?

[David Mundell]

Again, the hon. Gentleman strikes a completely different tone from Michael Russell, who has pursued a very professional approach to these matters. They are complicated and difficult matters, and it is important that they are thoroughly debated, discussed and agreed. The reason the Government did not bring forward an amendment at that stage was that no amendment had been agreed with the Scottish Government, but we are committed to delivering that.