Workplace Pay Gaps

Kim Johnson Excerpts

Tuesday 7th January 2025 Westminster Hall

[Dawn Butler (Brent East) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered pay gaps in the workplace.

Thank you, Sir Roger. I wish everybody a happy new year, too, and it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship.

There are multiple pay gaps in the workplace. I have had emails about the age pay gap, size pay gap and accent pay gaps—as a certified cockney, I know that that is true, and just for the record, some of the most intelligent people I know are cockneys. But today, for Ethnicity Pay Gap Day, I want to focus on gender, ethnicity and disability pay gaps. The key point is that if we measure something, we can fix it, but at the current rate, it will take another 40 years to fix the gender and ethnicity pay gap. Nobody should feel happy about that slow rate of progress; and imagine how long it will take to fix the disability pay gap—it will take even longer.

Last year, the Fawcett Society reported that Equal Pay Day fell on 20 November, two days earlier than the year before, and that essentially meant that from 20 November until the end of the year women were working for free. It is shocking that, on average, women earn £630 less a month than their male counterparts. On social media, people sometimes say, “What is this all about? Are you trying to reduce how much men are paid?” That is not what this is about. It is about fairness and equality and about paying people more, not less. I do not want on social media the manipulation and the misinformation of people saying, when we talk about equal rights and fairness, that that is somehow doing down men, because it absolutely is not. Currently, the ethnicity pay gap is 5.6% and the disability pay gap is 12.7%. That is a whopping pay gap.

The Government are to be applauded for their ambition and plan to make work pay. The Prime Minister said, as part of his new year message:

“The security of working people…is the purpose of this government.”

That is something that we should all applaud: working people should be secure in their job and in their work. Following the King’s Speech, companies of 250-plus employees have to report ethnicity and disability pay gaps, which is welcome. It is also welcome that gender pay gap reporting has been expanded to include equality action plans. That is great, but producing equality action plans is not enough. What will companies do with the action plans? How will they ensure that they use the action plans to close the pay gaps? It is one step, but it does not go far enough.

It has to be acknowledged that what we do now will actually make the workplace better for everybody—not just women, people with disabilities and people of different ethnicities. Everybody will benefit if the workplace is fairer. Research has found that men want flexibility in the workplace. This is always framed as women wanting flexibility in the workplace, but the reality is that men also want flexibility, so if we make that a standard, everybody will be happy. And no matter who is doing the job, doing the work, they should be paid fairly. That should be the case no matter who they are or what they look like, so there also needs to be a concerted effort whereby we stop stereotyping people into jobs or creating structures that try to normalise inequality.

[Kim Johnson (Liverpool Riverside) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. The Equality Act 2010 states that it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of race, yet in 2024, black people earned an hourly mean rate 19.04% lower than their white counterparts. The Employment Rights Bill provides an opportunity for employers to develop and publish an equality action plan. However, those action plans at the moment cover only gender. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government need to place more emphasis on ethnicity gap issues, and that that Bill, which is in Committee, needs to make that right by covering them at this stage?

[Dawn Butler]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. If our ambition is to make the workplace fairer and secure it for everybody, we should take the opportunities laid before us. That is one opportunity to ensure that we not only close the gap but make workplaces fairer.

There was one case that was easy to identify as a trade union official: men were called chefs and women were called cooks, and chefs were paid a higher rate than cooks. That was an easy one, once we could figure out what was going on. A more difficult case was that of Kay, who said:

“I had been working as a chef with a large catering company for ten years. During a casual conversation, my colleague mentioned he was being paid £22,000 a year. This was £6,000 a year more than me. I thought the right to equal pay would mean I was being paid fairly. For years, I went to work each day without knowing I was being paid less than those I was working alongside. I am not an isolated case. I know there are many women who, like me, don’t realise they are experiencing pay discrimination.”

That picks up on the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool Riverside (Kim Johnson). The law is there, but if someone does not know what the person next to them, who is doing the same job, is paid, they could be discriminated against.

Some people will say that some men and women do different jobs, different types of work or different hours. The law says the “same work” or “work of equal value”, but even when men and women work the same hours and in the same roles, nearly two thirds of the gender pay gap remains unexplained. That points to pay discrimination, which we must tackle as a Government. How do we tackle that and move faster towards security, fairness and equality? One way is transparency. It is important for people to know who is being paid what and why. We should introduce the right to know. In Kay’s situation, she should be able to see how much X is being paid and know that there is a £6,000 pay deficit. We also need actionable and enforceable action plans. Again, an organisation may have identified a pay gap, but unless it has committed to closing that gap, that probably will not happen. Another way companies can do that is by assigning it as a key performance indicator. We have found that when organisations assign that to somebody as a KPI, real action is taken and pay gaps begin to close.

The Government have a huge role to play not just through legislation, in terms of the Equal Pay Act and so on, but by securing the circular economy. The Government can have an active role in making the workplace fairer by ensuring, as has been done in some areas, that they give contracts only to companies that pay people well and fairly and do not have a pay gap. So the Government’s procurement contract processes can ensure that they give contracts only to companies that follow good practices, which will enrich the circular economy. This is not just about doing the right thing. Companies that pay people well and employ the right people for the right jobs generally have a 15% higher profit margin than their nearest counterparts. That also plays out in the fact that a lot of young people are becoming socially informed, so they like to shop with companies that have good ethics and consider climate change. This approach will benefit everybody and is good in itself.

As I come to the end of my speech, some may wonder why I have not mentioned fines. The Minister may correct me, but to my knowledge no company has been fined for its gender pay gap. Unless that part of the law is strengthened, it is meaningless. I am interested to know how we can ensure that we fine companies that are not closing their pay gaps, and what the Government plan to do with any money that is collected.

There is a stark difference across UK regions, with some doing better than others. London has the largest ethnicity pay gap, which currently stands at a whopping 23.8%. That is appalling in one of the most diverse capital cities in the world and the financial capital city of the UK. As chair of the London parliamentary Labour party, I want to accelerate the move towards closing those pay gaps. I commend Dianne Greyson, founder of #EthnicityPayGap, for her work on that.

As chair of the all-party parliamentary group on governance and inclusive leadership—GAIL—I launched a maturity matrix in Parliament. That guide is available online for free for companies to implement in their workplace. It takes them through various stages to recognise and close pay gaps. That has been so successful that companies have asked for it to be expanded for disability and other things, which is currently being done. That is a free resource because, ultimately, we want better and fairer workplaces.

People should be paid fairly on merit. No one should be paid less for their work because of their gender, colour of their skin, ethnicity, background, accent, size, age or class. If we get this right on gender, ethnicity and disability, we will create a better and fairer work environment for all.

Safety of School Buildings

Kim Johnson Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab)]

I thank all the hard-working teaching and support staff in my Liverpool, Riverside constituency. I welcome the fact that St Silas, The Belvedere Academy, St Margaret’s, Liverpool College and Bellerive have been allocated condition improvement funding, yet the stark reality is that we are facing the very real prospect of school buildings collapsing in this country. The consequences of such a disaster are almost unthinkable.

Crumbling schools have now become commonplace. Hundreds of schools across the country are now unsafe, let alone fit for purpose. In February this year, the Government admitted that at least 39 state schools in England have been forced to close, either partially or entirely, in the past three years, because one or more buildings have been deemed to be unsafe.

Between 2009-10 and 2021-22, overall capital spending on school buildings declined by almost 37% in cash terms, and by half in real terms. Given the crisis of inflation over which this Government are now presiding, the current funding commitments will barely scratch the surface and only paper over the cracks. At this rate, it will take over 400 years to fully remove dangerous asbestos from the school estate.

As a result, seven major trade unions organising in schools across the country are calling for urgent action to be taken now. They point to the two minor school collapses in England that have already happened—thankfully, no one was hurt. My good friend, my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Olivia Blake), pointed out the serious accident that took place in her constituency. Just imagine if that had hurt a child.

The school rebuilding programme has identified 400 schools to be rebuilt. Some 13 years of Conservative cuts to school budgets have left us with a crumbling and dangerous estate. On top of that, a lack of investment in new schools is impacting our children’s education and safety, but today I discovered from the Minister for Children, Families and Wellbeing, the hon. Member for East Surrey (Claire Coutinho), that the Government plan to build 98 new special schools, with a further 39 in the pipeline. Can the Minister clarify if those will be free schools or operated by the private sector?

Nelson Mandela said:

“Education is the most powerful weapon you can use to change the world.”

Teachers cannot focus on education if they have to manage in inadequate facilities. Does the Minister honestly believe, hand on heart, that it is safe to send children and staff into school buildings in England? If not, why will the Government not publish the data to show children, parents and staff where they are at risk?

Oral Answers to Questions

Kim Johnson Excerpts

Monday 27th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab)]

3. What steps she is taking to tackle transphobic bullying in schools.

[Dame Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)]

16. What steps she is taking to tackle transphobic bullying in schools.

[The Secretary of State for Education (Gillian Keegan)]

The tragic death of Brianna Ghey will be at the forefront of all our minds. An investigation is ongoing and we should not assume the facts of the case. However, I want to take this opportunity to express my deepest sympathy to her family and friends.

Schools should be safe, supportive and calm places where children are taught to respect each other and staff. The Government are clear that bullying is unacceptable. Since 2016, we have provided a total of more than £5.5 million to a number of anti-bullying organisations, including the Anti-Bullying Alliance and others, to support schools to tackle bullying.

[Kim Johnson]

I thank the Secretary of State for her response. According to research from Stonewall, students identifying as transgender are more likely to report having a bad experience at school or at college as a result of bullying. Can she commit to ensuring that schools and colleges are obligated to record incidents of transphobic bullying, and providing guidance on how to support students to report such incidents?

[Gillian Keegan]

All schools are required to have a behaviour policy, which will include anti-bullying, and Ofsted holds them to account on that. We also recognise that issues relating to sex and gender can be complex and sensitive for schools to navigate. I am currently working with my right hon. Friend the Minister for Women and Equalities to develop guidance to support schools in relation to transgender pupils. It is important to consider a wide range of views to get the guidance right and we have committed to holding a public consultation on the draft guidance prior to publication.

Crisis in Iran

Kim Johnson Excerpts

Tuesday 25th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Gillian Keegan]

That question is very important and was the subject of a Westminster Hall debate not long ago. We condemn any actions that restrict freedom of religious belief.

[Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab)]

I send my solidarity and support to the women and girls of Iran fighting for their human rights. Does the Minister agree that, in the light of recent events and the attacks on human rights, the BBC’s decision to close down its Persian radio service is deeply unfortunate when so many rely on it as a lifeline? Will she undertake to speak to the BBC director-general to ask whether the closure can be reviewed and reversed?

[Gillian Keegan]

BBC Persian is a legitimate journalistic operation, which is still operating and is editorially independent of the UK Government. However, I am shortly meeting with representatives from BBC World Service and I will discuss the matter further with them.

Free School Meals and Child Poverty

Kim Johnson Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab)]

On behalf of the constituents of Liverpool, Riverside, I extend my heartfelt wishes to the Queen and the royal family and wish her a speedy recovery.

I am grateful to have secured this Adjournment debate on free school meals and tackling child poverty. This is a very urgent and timely call to action for the new Prime Minister, calling for the roll-out of universal free school meals. I believe no issue is more important than making sure that no child goes hungry.

I congratulate the Minister on her new position and the new Education Secretary—the fifth we have had this year. I hope the Minister is serious about tackling the very real poverty crisis that has exploded over the past 12 years of Tory rule. We know it is likely to get worse over the coming months, which will be the hardest winter for thousands of children growing up in poverty.

When I applied for this debate before the summer recess, I had intended to focus on how the benefits of investing in universal free school meals would help to reverse the long-standing and ever-deepening inequalities in health and educational attainment between poorer pupils and their more affluent peers. But the economic landscape has worsened significantly. Everything is going up except incomes for the worst-off. The cost of living crisis is set to plunge two thirds of the country into fuel poverty and three quarters of a million children into poverty. The call for universal free school meals has now become much more urgent.

If the new Prime Minister is to prevent children from freezing and starving this winter, rolling out universal free school meals must be a key cornerstone of any emergency support plan. Instead of a real living wage and a welfare system that supports people out of poverty, we have a crisis of insecure work and poverty pay, and a welfare system that drives people into destitution. Make no bones about it, we are facing an unprecedented humanitarian crisis. Inflation and interest rates are going up, while the pound is plunging and a record rise in food prices is pushing millions more into food insecurity.

As pupils head back to school this week, nearly a quarter will be eligible for free school meals. That number has risen by nearly 50% since 2019 and is rising every single day. It is a clear indication of the explosion in child poverty that this Government have contributed to during the last 12 years of austerity. We have seen attacks on the welfare system and under-resourcing of the public sector. School pupils have already suffered setbacks during the pandemic, with inequalities in educational attainment widening, particularly between the north and the south. In my constituency of Liverpool, Riverside, 11 children in every class of 30 were already living in poverty before the current cost of living crisis.

Classroom hunger drives the education attainment gap between children from disadvantaged backgrounds and their peers, leaving poorer children over 18 months behind their better-off peers by the time they leave secondary school. A-level and GCSE results this year showed regional and national disparities. The attainment gap between the richest and the poorest pupils is more pronounced than ever. Even before the current cost of living crisis, Government policies failed to level up and instead fuelled spiralling inequalities.

[Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this Adjournment debate on such an important matter. As a former primary school teacher for many years, I know what she is saying: a child cannot learn if they are hungry in school. Does she agree that the announcement in today’s energy statement does nothing to assure schools that are having to cut back their free school meal service to young people that those young people will not be going hungry in the weeks and months to come?

[Kim Johnson]

I do agree; children cannot learn on empty bellies. It is scandalous that, even at this young age, the futures of the most of them have already been decided. Their life expectancy, job opportunities, salary, housing and so much more have already been predetermined by their background—by situations that are outside their control.

The National Education Union’s campaign, “No Child Left Behind”, clearly identified child poverty as the biggest scandal of our time, with 4 million already living in poverty and a further three quarters of a million projected to be plunged into poverty in the coming months. In a recent NEU survey, over eight in 10 teachers said that their students demonstrate fatigue and an inability to concentrate as a result of poverty. Nearly three quarters said that their students were unable to complete homework and more than half said that their students had experienced hunger or ill health. Millions of children are going hungry every single day. The current restrictive eligibility, complicated registration procedures and the stigma built into a system that separates rich and poor mean that children are already missing out on existing support.

[Navendu Mishra (Stockport) (Lab)]

I thank my good friend for giving way and congratulate her on securing this important debate. I also paid tribute to her for organising an event with the National Education Union earlier this week in Westminster Hall to highlight the issues in our schools. The former Prime Minister preached to us about the benefits of levelling up, but one easy way to level up the north and the south, and also address the educational attainment gap and the lack of productivity, would be for the Government to make a universal free school meal offer to everyone so that our children are not segregated between rich and poor at our institutions.

[Kim Johnson]

I thank my hon. Friend for the intervention and I definitely agree that universality is the way forward for free school meals.

[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for securing the debate. In York in 2021, 25.3% of children were in poverty, and that number will have gone up substantially in the last 12 months. One thing that really struck me about the event that my hon. Friend the Member for Stockport (Navendu Mishra) is talking about was the stigma that children experienced because they were different from other children. For that reason alone, surely we should have a universal offer of free school meals for children, so that they have the same stature as their peers and are not marked out as a child needing free school meals.

[Kim Johnson]

I thank my hon. Friend for the intervention and will come on to the point about stigma later.

More than 200,000 children are eligible for free school meals but are currently missing out. At my free school meals event with the National Education Union on Tuesday in Parliament, which received cross-party support, we heard some heartbreaking testimonies from youth ambassadors for the End Child Poverty coalition.

Liv, Emilia and Naomi, who have lived experiences of food poverty, spoke passionately about their personal experiences of being singled out in front of their friends and watching their parents skip meals to ensure that they were fed. They spoke about the long-term impact on their mental health, on their relationship with food, and on their responses to the current pressures of the cost of living crisis, and about the trauma response that growing up with such pressures has instilled in them. One said that having free school meals was like having a badge pinned to their blazer that read “Poor.” That stigma often worsens in secondary school and can be incredibly alienating for children struggling to fit in and thrive.

Data from the Child Poverty Action Group has shown that 800,000 children currently living in poverty are not eligible for free school meals, and miss out on holiday support and other benefits. That number is increasing every day, with many families falling into debt with school lunches. Crucially, children are denied a meal if they are more than two weeks in arrears.

On the steps of Downing Street on Tuesday, the new Prime Minister said that

“we have what it takes to tackle those challenges”

and that we can “ride out the storm”, but the energy price guarantee announced this afternoon will not support families already in crisis. They will be paying far more, not less.

A recent report from the Food Foundation revealed that about 2.6 million children live in households that missed meals or struggled to access healthy food. Levels of insecurity in households with children have risen by more than 40% since the start of this year alone. We are one of the richest countries in the world, yet so many low-paid workers, including public sector workers, rely on food banks. Nearly 70% of food bank providers say, however, that they may need to turn people away or shrink the size of emergency rations due to a completely unsustainable surge in demand that will prevent them from feeding the hungriest families this winter.

The Government-commissioned national food strategy, authored by Henry Dimbleby, calls for the extension of free school meals for all under-16-year-olds in households earning under £20,000, to help to tackle the nutritional gap between rich and poor in this country. Children in the most disadvantaged areas are now being diagnosed with Victorian diseases such as rickets, scurvy and scarlet fever—and that was even before the cost of living crisis.

Four councils have rolled out universal free school meals for all primary school children. Southwark pioneered that flagship initiative a decade ago in response to the so-called once-in-a-lifetime economic crisis. The results speak for themselves. Pupils made four to eight weeks’ more progress than expected. The schools have seen a massive improvement in attainment over the last 10 years and have gone from being fourth bottom to more than 90% being rated good or outstanding by Ofsted. Nearly a quarter more children were eating vegetables at lunch time, and there was an 18% reduction in children consuming crisps and soft drinks. Hammersmith and Fulham has seen a 60% increase in secondary school children on free school meals since 2018, and it is now piloting universal free school meals for secondary pupils.

Universal provision contributes to family food security. It improves pupils’ concentration and behaviour. It improves attendance, which is also a key aim of this Government’s Schools Bill. It increases the amount of fruit and vegetables and reduces the amount of sugar and salt consumed by pupils at lunch time. Crucially, it also reduces the stigma that many children who receive free school meals feel when they are singled out from their peers.

Often, stigma and mental health are overlooked in Government policy discussions—poorer children are expected to put up and shut up, and be grateful for their handouts—but the reality is incredibly damaging. It can cause long-term trauma and problems, and makes the means-tested policy far less effective. Yes, universal free school meals will cost. Yes, they should be understood as an investment in our future. However, these are children, and everything we do should allow them to flourish and thrive. Their bright futures should be our priority. We cannot lose sight of the human impact of not feeding our children, or of choosing an arbitrary threshold to decide who deserves to go hungry and who deserves to be fed.

Universality provides far greater opportunities to improve educational attainment across the board and to reverse the ever-growing inequalities. Investing in our children now will be better for everyone in the long term. Prevention is better than cure. Doing nothing now will reduce the productivity of the future workforce. It will put greater pressures on the NHS. It risks a generation suffering from poor mental health and poor physical health, and being trapped in a never-ending cycle of poverty.

[Rachael Maskell]

My hon. Friend is being generous with her time. I very much want York to adopt free school meals for all primary school children, and then to look at rolling that out to secondary school children. However, I also want to ensure that children in my constituency have access to a hot nutritious meal in their stomachs every day through the school holidays. I take it that my hon. Friend will also be campaigning against the school holiday hunger that we still see in our constituencies.

[Kim Johnson]

I thank my good friend for her contribution, and I definitely will be promoting food security during holiday periods. It is not just about children having a hot nutritious meal; in reality, it means so much more. It sets the foundations for improved behaviour and improved attainment. It means better health, better jobs, higher salaries and higher life expectancy—in short, the chance to break the vicious cycle of poverty.

UK food prices have hit the highest levels since 2008. Children are going hungry right now. They simply cannot afford to wait for this Government while they are dragging their feet. The last time the Tories tried to resist helping hungry children, there was public outrage—

[Navendu Mishra]

Rightly so.

[Kim Johnson]

Yes, rightly so, and the campaign fronted by Marcus Rashford forced a U-turn within a matter of weeks. I hope the Minister can confirm that her Government will learn from past mistakes and act immediately to prevent unnecessary and unimaginable suffering for millions of children and their families. We will not allow this Government to continue to bury their head in the sand. On the steps of Downing Street this week, the outgoing Prime Minister claimed that the Tory party is a compassionate party. If that is truly the case, the new Prime Minister and the Education Secretary should take urgent steps to roll out universal free school meals as a priority.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kelly Tolhurst]

I thank the hon. Lady for that point. As I said, I, like all Members of Parliament, absolutely care about our young people in school and want them to thrive, have great lives and enjoy their school years, and we must ensure that stigma does not exist for them. In my role, I will look at many things, and I am more than happy to look at that further. We do not have plans to extend the universal provision in England, but, as I said, we will continue to keep free school meal eligibility under review to ensure that those meals are supporting those who need it most.

Let us look at some of the detail. We currently have an earnings threshold of £7,400 for families on universal credit, but that does not include income from benefits—those payments are not included—so household incomes can be considerably higher than that threshold without children being excluded from a free school meal. Extending free school meals to all families on universal credit, for example, would carry a significant financial cost, quickly running into billions of pounds, and yet some of those households have incomes exceeding £40,000 a year. Those are clearly not among the most disadvantaged, and other households would have a greater need of our support.

As every family knows, it costs more to put a healthy meal on the table than it did even just a year ago, and it is no different for free school meal provision. We have therefore increased core funding for schools. This year, the free school meals factor in the national funding formula has increased to £470 per pupil to take into account inflation and other cost pressures that schools face. We are also providing extra core funding through the schools supplementary grant, which represents a significant increase of £2.5 billion for the 2022-23 compared with last year. We are also spending £600 million on universal infant free school meals each year as well as about £40 million on delivering free meals to around 90,000 disadvantaged students in further education. In addition to that, we will provide more than £200 million a year for the next three years to deliver healthy food during holiday periods through our holiday activities and food programme. We are also funding breakfast clubs in more than 2,000 schools, and the school fruit and vegetable scheme and Healthy Start vouchers add further support.

The Government are committed to a sustainable, long-term approach to tackling poverty—especially child poverty—and supporting people on lower incomes. There are currently about 1.27 million job vacancies across the UK, and we believe that the best and most sustainable way of tackling child poverty is to ensure that parents get the right sort of help and support to move into work. We know that employment—I am talking primarily about a full-time job—offers the best chance of reducing the risks of poverty. Our multimillion-pound plan for jobs has protected, supported and created jobs, and will continue to help people across the UK to find work and develop skills to progress their careers and increase their earnings.

[Kim Johnson]

I thank the Minister for giving way. She makes the point about work being the route out of poverty, but as I pointed out in my speech there are vast numbers of parents who are working and are ineligible to apply for free school meals. Work is not the route out of poverty, and some work needs to be done on that.

[Kelly Tolhurst]

I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. In my new role, I have already committed to keeping eligibility under review.

Today, the Government set out decisive action to support people and businesses with their energy bills, tackling the root causes of the issues in the UK energy market through increased supply and ensuring the country is not left in the same position again. Under plans for the new energy price guarantee, a typical UK household will pay no more than £2,500 a year on its energy bills for the next two years from 1 October, saving the average household £1,000 a year from October, based on current energy prices. That support is in addition to the £400 energy bill discount for all households. Together, they will bring costs close to where the energy price cap stands today. The new guarantee will apply to households in Great Britain, with the same level of support made available to households in Northern Ireland. The action will deliver substantial benefits to the economy, boosting growth and curbing inflation by between four to five points, reducing the cost of servicing national debt. This historic intervention comes after a failure to invest in home-grown energy and to drive reform in the energy market.

[Kim Johnson]

Again, the money being made available will not target the most vulnerable, because we know there are thousands still in crisis who are likely to pay an extra £500 on top of what they were already going to pay. We know that the most disadvantaged who have payment meters often have to pay more than those who have direct debits. How will the Government address those major, urgent issues for the vulnerable at this time?

[Kelly Tolhurst]

Ahead of today, we had already announced a significant package of support for those most in need—I outlined the extra £400. Local authorities also have the household support grant scheme, which is accessible by people who are in need and is an opportunity for those who have fallen through certain gaps to access funding they may require.

We need to invest in home-grown energy and drive reform in the energy market to secure the UK’s supply. Putin’s weaponisation of the energy supply has exposed the UK’s vulnerabilities to the volatility of global markets, coupled with a regulatory framework no longer fit for purpose which is driving up bills and holding back economic growth. A new six-month scheme for businesses and other non-domestic energy users, including public sector organisations like schools, will offer equivalent support to that being provided for consumers. That will protect them from soaring energy costs and provide them with the certainty they need to plan their business. After the initial six-month period, the Government will provide ongoing, focused support for vulnerable industries. There will be a review in three months’ time to consider where that should be targeted to make sure that the most in need get support.

Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Bill

Kim Johnson Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 13th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the legislation is totally unnecessary and divisive, with little evidence to support the Government’s position that there has been a rise in intolerance and a creeping culture of censorship? The Office for Students’ own data showed that out of 10,000 events with external speakers, only six were cancelled.

[Matt Western]

I thank my hon. Friend for her contribution. Yes, there are issues out there, but that is about the scale of it. That is what has been uncovered in the surveys and analysis done by the Office for Students and by others. The scale is being exaggerated by the Government in order to make this legislation. It would be nonsensical to ignore shifting attitudes, and new clause 5 would allow for well-informed public policy guided by evidence rather than by Ministers’ latest lightning rod of choice.

Our amendments 19 and 20 would ensure that non-disclosure agreements or confidentiality agreements between those listed in the Bill and higher education providers did not inhibit freedom of speech, save where it was expressly agreed to between the parties to protect intellectual property. I will defer to my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley, with whom I have tabled amendment 19, to explore that further. She is a tireless campaigner on the issue and I commend her work in bringing it to the House’s attention on Report. I hope that the Minister, who has previously stated her commitment to stamp out that practice, will take on board our suggestions.

Finally, I would like to take this opportunity to push the Minister on some of the finer points of the Government amendments. The illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia has rightly thrown a spotlight on the source of foreign investment and money in our public institutions. The misguided “golden era” ushered in by David Cameron and George Osborne in 2015, in which foreign nation states acquired substantial control over key parts of our national infrastructure, must come to an end.

The Government’s new clause 2 is much preferable to new clause 1, tabled by Conservative Back Benchers, particularly on the risk-based approach of the Government’s suggestion, but I have some concerns about new clause 2’s practical effect. The Minister suggests that it is her stated aim to reduce the data burden in the higher education sector. It is for that reason that I am interested in ascertaining how the new clause will be both proportionate and balanced. For example, the threshold at which providers have to report foreign donations is set to be determined by the Secretary of State in regulations, so it is disappointing that once again the Minister seemingly chose to brief it to The Times that the threshold would be set at £75,000—as she mentioned earlier—rather than allow the House to have a meaningful debate on what is appropriate. This is not on the face of the Bill. Interestingly, when we contrast this to the reporting threshold in the United States, which is $250,000—just over the equivalent of £200,000—the Government seem at risk of disincentivising foreign investment by implementing additional bureaucratic burdens.

I am also concerned about the scope of new clause 2, and I would be grateful if the Minister could expand a bit more on what is meant by “constituent institutions.” How much direct control does a higher education provider need to have over a constituent institution for it to fall under the remit of the new clause? For example, would Cambridge University Press be covered? My hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner) referred to that earlier. Relatedly, some of the requirements in the new clause are quite technical and may require fine judgment. It is likely that the value of non-monetary benefits—human capital and access to data, for example—will be difficult to ascertain. Could the Minister therefore detail what steps she is taking to ensure that universities are supported in determining the value of the partnerships they sign?

The Government’s proposal hands the responsibility for the new clause to the director for freedom of speech, making the director’s appointment all the more important. This adds further justification to our new clause 4, and I hope that Conservative MPs will consider that when they go through the Lobby later. Given that the regulator has limited prior experience of dealing with research partnerships or commercial arrangements, what additional resources will be provided to the OfS to handle this new responsibility?

Labour has tabled some important amendments in the same manner and spirit as we did in Committee. Let us remember that we debated a staggering 80-plus amendments in Committee at that time—it is a 19-page report—and now we have these few. Such a number would seem to underline just what a big dog’s breakfast the legislation is, and I am sure that those in the other place will spend many an hour realising what poor quality red meat lies at the bottom of it.

Children’s Education Recovery and Childcare Costs

Kim Johnson Excerpts

Tuesday 7th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Bridget Phillipson]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. It is incredibly important that all our children receive healthy nutritious meals while at school, but also through the holidays. We know so many families are under significant pressure at the moment.

The Government are not just failing our children at school. They are failing our families, not merely through months of inaction but through conscious choices, time and again, to make life harder still for working people. It took five months for the Chancellor to come to this House and set out the windfall tax for which Labour had been calling all that time—five months when families were forking out £53 million a day. Let us not forget that the wider cost of living crisis we face today is a crisis made worse in Downing Street: income tax thresholds frozen, council tax up, national insurance up, petrol costs through the roof, food prices soaring and universal credit support slashed. Again and again, when the Chancellor wants to raise money, he has reached for the pockets of working people.

I have been hoping that the Chancellor’s change of heart on the windfall tax might be an omen that the Education Secretary and his Minister might start to heed some of our calls. I cannot but welcome, for example, the Government’s belated conversion to the belief that headteachers in our schools, rather than executives and overseas HR firms, are best placed to ensure children get the tutoring they need. My hon. Friend the Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) made that point last summer, when she raised our concerns that the national tutoring programme was being taken out of the hands of education experts and given to a multinational HR company. She asked the Secretary of State and his predecessor whether they were happy with the contract and could provide assurances that it was not a cost-cutting exercise to the detriment of our children’s learning. Those assurances could not be given and the contract has failed. At the current rate of progress, all secondary school pupils will have left school by the time his Government deliver the 100 million tutoring hours promised.

The reason the Government veer to and fro from inaction and impoverishment to political larceny, with the Education Secretary cherry-picking his evidence, is because they lack any sense of purpose. As one of the Minister’s colleagues said yesterday, the Government lack a sense of mission. They have a majority, but not a plan. Not only does the Secretary of State lack a vision of what growing up in this country should be like, but he lacks a vision of what going to school in this country should mean. That is clear from the way he and his Government have treated our children since the start of the pandemic and the absence of ambition for their futures. It is clear from the lack of care given to the soaring cost of childcare and it is clear from the way they propose to treat our schools.

Taking our children first, as Government should, and as Labour does, children’s education has been through three phases during the pandemic. First, when schools closed in March 2020, we asked for daily updates, for information on support for home learning and on how free school meals would be delivered, and the evidence underpinning the Government’s decision making. We wanted to know there was a plan. Sadly, as the National Audit Office found, there was none. Secondly, when it came to school reopening, we made suggestions. We called for ventilation and for nightingale classrooms. We put forward ideas and demanded a plan. Once more, no plan. Thirdly, when we needed a plan for children’s recovery and their futures, what we got was a hollowed out, cut-price offer that is failing our children.

Labour has set out a very clear plan for how we would support children’s recovery. We would match, not temper, the ambition of our young people. If there were a Labour Government right now, there would be breakfast clubs and new activities for every child: more sport, music, drama and book clubs to boost time for children to learn, play and socialise after so many months away from their friends. There would be quality mental health support in every school, answering the plea of parents and teachers to get professional support to young people now. There would be small group tutoring for all who need it, with trust put in schools to deliver from the start, and ongoing training and development for school staff, because we know that investing in our children’s learning means investing in our education profession, too. And there would be targeted investment so that teachers and lecturers can provide extra support to the children and young people who need it most. Critically, our plan would increase the early years pupil premium more than fourfold to drive up the quality of early education and keep costs down for parents.

[Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the best way to tackle inequalities is to invest in early years? I have first-hand experience of how Sure Start centres made a significant impact on families and children, particularly in marginalised and disadvantaged areas. Does she agree that the Government need to do much more to invest in early years on the scale that Labour invested?

[Bridget Phillipson]

My hon. Friend is exactly right. The last Labour Government transformed early years—we put it first and made it an absolute priority—and I assure her that the next Labour Government will do the same again. Early years childcare and education in this country is too often unaffordable, unavailable and inaccessible.

Skills and Post-16 Education Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting)

Kim Johnson Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 2nd December 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Mr Perkins]

I recognise that point, but this is an area of real worry for me. The Government have said explicitly that they want to reduce the number of people doing university degrees that they consider to have low value. Again, they have not told us which ones. A disproportionately high number of learners from deprived communities are doing BTECs rather than A-levels. I strongly suspect that seeking to reduce the number of people doing certain university degrees will disproportionately affect the cohort who do BTECs. Although my hon. Friend is right that a lot of students, such as my son, the child of my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hall Green, and the child of the hon. Member for Loughborough, have gone to university via BTECs, I fear that the number will reduce under the Government’s expressed strategy to reduce the number of students doing university degrees that they do not think have value.

[Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend has identified that young people from disadvantaged communities are likely to suffer. There will also be a disproportionate impact on both black students and students with special educational needs who use that route into education and higher education.

[Mr Perkins]

I am glad that my hon. Friend made that incredibly important point. She is right that BTECs, and the further education sector in general, have a far higher proportion of black and ethnic minority students than mainstream schools. They are incredibly important routes, and it is important that they are spoken up for, and that that difference is raised. Different students study in different ways. The Government have a real bias against anything that is not largely exam focused. They believe that only an exam focus gives someone a real qualification, and BTECs have been much more based on a student showing what they have learned over a two-year course, rather than just in a couple of weeks at the end of June.

Such qualifications have been a route for many people to improve their social mobility. That is why the campaign to defend them is so strong. We will talk about BTECs in more detail under future amendments, but amendment 48 seeks to provide that the Government

“must publish criteria to define what is meant by ‘high quality qualifications’, which can be used as a framework for future deliberations about any defunding of qualifications.”

It states:

“Any future defunding of qualifications must be reviewed by an appointed independent panel of experts, against the criteria”

that the Secretary of State has set out. It continues:

“The Secretary of State must publish the proposed list of Level 3 vocational and technical qualifications which are proposed to be defunded, based on the criteria set out…within 3 months of this Act receiving royal assent.”

That amendment would make an important difference. First, the Secretary of State would tell us by what criteria he will continue to fund, or to defund, qualifications. Secondly, to ensure that the decisions are based on academic considerations rather than political ones, it would ensure that the independent panel of experts applies the criteria that he has put in place. Thirdly, it would ensure that the process for level 3 qualifications does not drag on endlessly.

The Government have started the process of undermining the qualifications by describing them as of low quality. That should not go on forever—within three months, we could have a list to say, “This is high quality, this is what you should study in future and this is what, under the criteria set out by the Secretary of State, we will no longer fund.” I find it hard to understand why people would vote against such an amendment. It is widely supported and I am interested in what response we will get from the Minister and others to the amendments.

Skills and Post-16 Education Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting)

Kim Johnson Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 2nd December 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Mr Perkins]

Precisely—I could not have put it better myself. In fact, I do not think that I was putting it better myself. If a chamber of commerce has, for example, a tree surgeon as its chair, and the local skills improvement plan has policies on attracting skills in tree surgery and no other does, people might consider that an agenda has been driven. There are all kinds of other examples. There is nothing negative about tree surgery—we all know how important it is—but people would need to understand why it was in the policy and whether there were any other factors to consider. In recent weeks, there have been real concerns about the allocation of Government funding, who was getting it and on what basis, who was talking to who, who was donating to who, who was signing up to who, and who was the best pal or a publican of a friend of who. In that context, it is important to ensure that local skills improvement plans are not mired in the murk that we have seen from the Government recently.

[Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab)]

As we know, eight trailblazer ERBs were set up in July this year, with £4 million. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need to find out how beneficial they have been before we decide to roll them out and have chambers of commerce leading on them?

[Mr Perkins]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. It is feature of the Government’s approach, particularly to skills, that they set up pilots and then reach a conclusion before it is completed, as we saw on T-levels. We are debating the creation of something when the pilot is still at a very early stage. It was commented on, on social media and elsewhere, that the Minister said on Tuesday that it does not have to be a chamber of commerce; it could be any kind of organisation. When I asked him how many other organisations there are, he said, “Well, none.” It is better if we are straight and honest about what we are talking about. The anticipation is that chambers of commerce will do it in the vast majority of cases. Other organisations may come forward, and we look forward to seeing that emerge, but clearly the legislation was written with chambers of commerce in mind, and they are taking on the trailblazer role. My hon. Friend makes a valuable point. Why not find out how these things are working before we rush ahead and do them?

--- Later in debate ---

In 2016-17, 494,000—almost half a million—people were doing apprenticeships. By 2019-20, before we even take into account the collapse in apprenticeship starts during the covid crisis, that number had gone down to 322,500. That is a 35% reduction in the number of apprenticeships. On the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish about the number of apprenticeships going to under-19s, the number fell from 122,800 in 2016-17 right down to 76,300 in 2019-20—that is a 38% reduction in the number of apprenticeships for people under the age of 19.

[Kim Johnson]

My hon. Friend makes some important points about apprenticeships and the fact that the number of them has reduced. Does he agree that some of that is down to the lack of information and career guidance available in schools for many of our young people?

[Mr Perkins]

I absolutely agree. There are a huge number of causes, but my hon. Friend is right that one is the abandonment of careers guidance that happened in 2010, when this Government came to power and scrapped Connexions—got rid of many of those—and the statutory responsibility for careers guidance.

To give a scintilla of credit to the Government, they have at least realised to an extent that the decision made back in 2010 was catastrophic and made an attempt to rebuild some kind of careers service. We have many criticisms of their approach, but at least there is a recognition that simply getting rid of face-to-face careers guidance and going towards a purely online service was disastrous. My hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside is absolutely right about the number of people not doing apprenticeships. We will have an opportunity later in proceedings to discuss careers guidance in more detail—it is a priority for the Labour party.

Without in any way undermining what my hon. Friend said, it is also important to make the point that there is a real shortage of opportunities out there; it is not purely that people do not want apprenticeships. I went to a training academy for construction on the south coast and I was told, interestingly, that there were about 100 applicants for every one of its apprenticeship opportunities. In an area with relatively low levels of unemployment, kids are still fighting to get hold of those opportunities. They recognise the value of apprenticeships. The importance of promoting apprenticeships is a strong point to make, but there is also a huge amount more to be done on supply.

To return to what I was saying a moment ago, it is important to understand the scale of the collapse in the number of apprenticeships. The number of apprenticeships going to 19 to 24-year-olds declined from 142,200 in 2016-17 right down to 95,500 in 2019-20, so there was a fall of almost 33% over that period. The levy was supposed to boost employer investment in training—my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish was in this place when the apprenticeship levy was announced, and he will remember that we were all told it would boost the amount that employers would invest in training—but that has declined, with £2.3 billion less spent in 2019 than in 2017.

The current funding arrangement particularly fails small businesses, which are a real priority for the Labour party. Especially in communities such as Chesterfield, small businesses are the prevalent providers of employment, and the fact that they have been shut out of the apprenticeship regime so dramatically with the introduction of the levy has had a massive impact. In 2016, 11% of businesses with less than 50 employees had apprentices in their organisation. I think 11% was probably not enough, but it was something. By 2019, there had been a 20% reduction in the number of small businesses with apprenticeships.

It is no wonder that the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development described the apprenticeship levy as having “failed on every measure”. It says that the levy will continue to

“undermine investment in skills and economic recovery without significant reform”.

Where is the opportunity to provide significant reform to apprenticeships and the apprenticeship levy, if not through a skills Bill? Yet the Government have chosen to leave apprenticeships out of it. Where is the reform? What are the Government doing about this failure, and do they even acknowledge that it exists? The starting point for addressing a problem is to accept that there is one. We have been forced to shoehorn an amendment into this skills Bill in order to even talk about apprenticeships.

Let us take construction as an example. The Construction Industry Training Board estimates that we need 217,000 new entrants to construction by 2025 to prevent growth from being slowed. The Government have for 11 years presided over a low-growth, high-taxation economy. Without an increase in the construction workforce, that growth will continue to be stilted.

Oral Answers to Questions

Kim Johnson Excerpts

Monday 1st November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

My hon. Friend is right to raise these concerns. We have consistently prioritised children with special educational needs, for example, by providing additional SEN uplifts in the catch-up and recovery premiums for 2020 to 2022. We also set an expectation that those with education, health and care plans would be able to attend schools throughout the pandemic and ensured that special schools remained open. We announced an additional £1 billion of recovery funding directly to schools to support catch-up over the two years from the academic year 2022-23.

[Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab)]

15. What steps he is taking to help ensure that students can continue to study BTEC qualifications.

[Paula Barker (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab)]

17. What recent assessment he has made of the impact of removing funding for BTEC qualifications on students.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Alex Burghart)]

I can confirm, following what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said, that we are not planning to remove funding from all BTECs. We will continue to fund high-quality qualifications, including BTECs, that can be taken alongside, or as alternatives to, T-levels and A-levels where there is a clear need for skills and knowledge. We will be led by the evidence and the final decision on qualifications reform will be taken in due course.

[Kim Johnson]

I welcome the Minister’s response to the question, but the Department’s own equalities impact assessment concluded that those from SEND black and disadvantaged backgrounds, and males were

“disproportionately likely to be affected”

by the plan to scrap the majority of BTECs. The City of Liverpool College offers 21 BTEC and 51 level 3 qualifications, and 1,400 learners would be impacted by the proposed changes. Is it not time that he listened to the calls from the Protect Student Choice campaign to rethink this damaging proposal?

[Alex Burghart]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question. She is a powerful advocate for the people of Liverpool. I would, respectfully, draw her attention to page 13 of the “Government consultation response: impact assessment”, which states:

“Following the additional flexibility on the future academic landscape, and the accompanying updated mapping and data, students from Black ethnic groups are no longer anticipated to be disproportionately highly affected. “

She raises an important point, which we are mindful of; we want all students, at all levels, to have the best opportunities. That is why we are reviewing level 3 qualifications and level 2 qualifications, so that we can have a qualifications system that gives students the skills they need, to get the jobs they need, for the economy we want.