NHS (Private Sector)
Grahame Morris Excerpts(12 years, 9 months ago)
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Andy Burnham
That is exactly the point. The proposal has to be seen in the context of the health system the coalition Government want to create. They want a broken-down system where one hospital is pitted against another, where there is a duty on the Secretary of State to promote the autonomy of NHS organisations, so that they are out there on their own, having to stand or fall on their merits, with a clear incentive to drive up income gained through a relaxed private patient income cap. I shall come to that point in a moment.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
Ministers are shouting, “Choice”, but is my right hon. Friend prepared to reflect on the merits of the private sector, both in the UK and abroad, in the efficiency of the service that it delivers?
Andy Burnham
When the Bill was introduced, great claims were made that it would improve NHS efficiency. That was one of the reasons the Government gave for subjecting the NHS to a huge top-down reorganisation; they wanted to make the system more efficient, but they made a mistake that many people make over time. They claimed that the NHS is inherently inefficient when in fact international evidence shows the exact opposite: the NHS model is the most efficient health care system in the world. That is because control of the system is democratically accountable, and national standards can be set through bodies such as the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence and entitlements can be set at national level. If that control is removed, we will see the emergence of a much less efficient health care system, like the many market-based systems.
Mr Lansley
That is exactly the same question that the hon. Lady asked during oral questions. The Prime Minister and I did indeed go to Salford Royal hospital and we were tremendously impressed by what is being done there but, like other hospitals across the NHS, as part of a process of using resources more effectively and as part of the consequences of a transfer to supporting patients more in the community than in the acute sector, that hospital is changing the way it manages its services, and it is delivering cost improvements. We make no bones about that.
We delivered £4.3 billion of cost improvement in the NHS in the last financial year. We are aiming to do more this year. We delivered £2.5 billion, according to the deputy chief executive of the NHS, in the first two quarters. Every penny saved by reducing costs in the NHS is available to be reinvested in the NHS. That is why we are in a position to improve the performance. The hon. Lady did not talk about how that funding is becoming available through savings on central costs—for example, £150 million extra funding this year announced since Christmas for support for the integration of health and social care.
Was that Labour’s priority? No. Did Labour come to the House and say, “We want to welcome the way the NHS has achieved an increase in the flu vaccine uptake,” or the simple fact that flu activity at this stage is at its lowest level for the past 20 years? No, none of that. The hon. Lady talked about Salford Royal and the way nurses are engaging in some best practice—
Mr Lansley
No. I am still answering the previous intervention. Nurses are engaging in best practice to improve the quality of care for patients in Salford Royal. Was that the basis upon which the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) chose to come to the House to talk about the things that matter to patients—the quality of care being delivered to patients? No, it was none of those things.
Mr Lansley
No. I answered the hon. Lady’s question.
Labour Members came to the House not to pursue the priorities of patients or of those who work in the NHS, but to pursue Labour’s priorities. They are not in 2012; they are not even in the 21st century. They are back in the past. Talking of the past and somebody who lives in the past, let us listen to the hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris).
Grahame M. Morris
The Secretary of State has quoted a series of statistics. Does he welcome the 29% increase in patients waiting more than 18 weeks since May 2010 as a result of dropping targets?
Mr Lansley
Let me explain to the hon. Gentleman. The average time that patients waited for in-patient elective procedures in the NHS according to the latest data was 8.4 weeks, which is exactly the same as at the time of the last general election. For out-patients it was 3.9 weeks, compared to 4.3 weeks at the election. For diagnostic tests, despite the fact that the NHS has performed 440,000 more diagnostic tests, the average waiting time is 1.8 weeks, the same as at the election. Long waits? The hon. Gentleman did not say that according to the latest data published the number of patients waiting more than a year for their treatment went down 40%, compared with what we inherited from the Government at the time of the last election.
The motion is all about Labour’s going back to the past. I am staggered. It is almost like revisiting Barbara Castle’s antipathy towards the private sector, or that of the right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson), the only former Labour Secretary of State now, even including himself, that the right hon. Member for Leigh seems to agree with.
I will ask the House to reject the motion, but in a way I am asking the House to reject those sentiments all over again, because we have been here before with this debate. Far from the House not having had an opportunity to consider issues including the private income cap, I remember having exactly this debate on Report. We were very clear about that. We discussed it when the White Paper was published, we discussed it when the Bill was debated on Second Reading, when it was in Committee and on Report, and it has been debated again in another place. I hope to use this opportunity to trample on some of the myths that the right hon. Member for Leigh and his friends are propagating about the Bill.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
To respond to some of the misrepresentations of the Opposition, I worked for the NHS for some 12 years and hold it in the very highest regard. I am here to defend the NHS against privatisation, and I make no apology for doing so to Government Members or anyone else for that matter.
It is fitting to pay tribute to all those who work in the NHS and who make it such a tremendous institution. I also pay tribute to members of the British Medical Association consultants committee who took part in Bevan’s run to mark their opposition to the dreadful Health and Social Care Bill as part of the “Drop the Bill” campaign. They ran 160 miles in six days from Nye Bevan’s statue in Cardiff to deliver a postcard to the Department of Health in Whitehall to call on the Secretary of State to drop the Bill.
In the limited time available, I should like to address the point in the motion about the cap and to address Government Members’ misrepresentations. The private patient income cap, which was set up under the previous Labour Government in the Health and Social Care (Community Health and Standards) Act 2003, which established NHS foundation trusts, was a protection against the need for profit overtaking the needs of NHS patients. With all hospital trusts set to become foundation trusts by 2014, a meaningful cap on the amount of resources that can be directed to the care and treatment of private patients becomes even more important.
The passage of the Health and Social Care Bill—it is in the Lords at the moment—can only be described as a shambles. It is an incredibly unpopular measure. There could have been agreement on, for example, clinical involvement in commissioning, but that could be achieved without this incredible disruption to the service. I certainly believe that it is harmful to the future existence of the NHS. There is no mandate or basis for it in the Conservative or Lib Dem manifestos or in the coalition agreement. This NHS privatisation plan might be better described as an NHS privatisation paving Bill—
Grahame M. Morris
With all due respect, I have very limited time and I am not going to take any interventions.
Any utterance about the nature of the NHS reforms planned by the Secretary of State during the general election campaign was heavily disguised. He weaved a tangled web in private health care during his seven years as Opposition spokesman on health. A few moments ago, he mentioned Labour’s involvement with the trade unions, but it is the involvement of the Conservatives with private health care interests that should be the subject of scrutiny.
NHS professionals, staff, the public and experts alike have all rejected the ethos of profits over patients, but the Secretary of State will not be deterred. He has defended his move by claiming that foundation trusts have a core legal duty to care for NHS patients. However, at the same time he is telling these trusts that they must make a profit to survive, and that if they run a deficit, they risk failure. That could mean being taken over by another trust or, as we have seen in the case of Hinchingbrooke hospital in Huntingdon, being taken over by a private sector provider.
We have not seen the Bill’s risk assessment, but as a member of the Public Bill Committee, I saw the impact assessment, and in point B95 it confirms that rather than improving services at hospital level through performance management, poor providers
“may need to contract or exit completely.”
That has created the ultimate Catch-22 for foundation trusts, with a conflict between patients and profits. A further Government proposal to scrap the provision in the 2006 Act which allows failing foundation trusts to return to NHS control puts further pressure on the need for trusts to pursue profits and has been opposed by the NHS chief executive, Sir David Nicholson.
I urge hon. Members to vote for the motion to ensure that patient care is placed before private profit and to send a clear and strong message to the Government that they must think again about their plans to ratchet up privatisation in our beloved NHS. The Minister of State, Department of Health, the right hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns) has often quoted Nye Bevan, but to quote Robin Cook,
“If he believes that the spirit of Nye Bevan supports his changes to the NHS then there is a wheel missing from his ouija board.”
Breast Implants
Grahame Morris Excerpts(12 years, 9 months ago)
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Mr Lansley
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for what she said about the NHS. I think that before considering whether there is a cost associated with regulation and how it might appropriately be met, we should consider what is necessary to assure patients of safety and quality.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
I welcome the statement, but may I caution the Secretary of State against placing additional burdens on the Care Quality Commission without providing it with additional resources? May I also urge him to heed the advice of my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham), and pause to listen and reflect on what lessons can be learned and what safeguards can be provided for the future? I am thinking both of the protection of patients’ safety and of future NHS liabilities when surgical procedures or treatments are carried out by the private sector, which is likely to become more frequent as the privatisation provisions of the Health and Social Care Bill are implemented.
Mr Lansley
For reasons that I have already explained, the hon. Gentleman is simply wrong about that. It is nonsensical to attempt—as the editor of The Lancet did this morning—to compare the regulation of private providers of private care with that of private providers of NHS care. There is no comparison at all.
The CQC will inspect a sample of providers of cosmetic surgery to check that they are meeting registration requirements, and will undertake a number of unannounced inspections as part of that. We expect the inspections to be completed by the end of the month, and expect the CQC to have published its report by the end of March. It has confirmed that it has enough resources to undertake the inspections within its existing budget.
Oral Answers to Questions
Grahame Morris Excerpts(12 years, 11 months ago)
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Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East) (Lab)
9. What plans he has to allocate resources to local authorities when they assume responsibility for public health.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
10. What steps he plans to take to ensure that the allocation of public health funding reduces health inequalities.
Anne Milton
The hon. Gentleman is right to draw attention to the excellent work that has been done despite the fact that public health budgets have not previously been ring-fenced. Indeed, what we have seen previously is PCTs raiding public health budgets for service provision, which is one reason why inequalities in health have got worse. It is extremely important that we transfer expertise, and employment law will ensure that all the transition is managed smoothly.
Grahame M. Morris
We are having problems getting reports published by the Department of Health. Will the Minister tell us about the public health outcomes framework by which we will measure progress in tackling and reducing health inequalities? What does the fact that the framework still has not been published say about the Government’s commitment to reducing health inequalities?
Anne Milton
I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would not want us to rush this. It is extremely important that for the first time we will have a public health outcomes framework. There was no such framework under the previous Government, so it is important that we get it right. It will be an important signal to local authorities about what we expect them to achieve—with, as I have said, a focus on improving the health of the poorest fastest.
National Health Service
Grahame Morris Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Andy Burnham
The hon. Gentleman nods, but I am afraid that that was not the Secretary of State’s policy.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
I compliment my right hon. Friend on how he is moving the motion. What are his views on the impact of the reduction of funding for the NHS on the front line, and on the number of hospital trusts that are breaching the 18-week target?
Andy Burnham
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for those words and I shall come to precisely that point, but let us be clear about this one: the Prime Minister promised a real-terms increase, but he has delivered a real-terms cut. He stands at the Dispatch Box week after week boasting about increasing health funding when he has not. All the while, NHS staff deal with the reality on the ground of his NHS cuts. Does he not realise how hopelessly out of touch he sounds? Hospitals everywhere are making severe cuts to services, closing wards, reducing A and E hours and closing overnight, making nurses redundant, and cutting training places. Last week, The Guardian revealed the random rationing that is taking place across the country. There are cuts to pay for management services, one third of neo-natal units are reducing the number of nurses, and midwife places are being cut despite the Prime Minister’s promise to recruit 3,000 more.
Andy Burnham
I said just a moment ago that I was the one who put my name to the Nicholson challenge, because that money was going to help the NHS respond to the new demands placed on it at this difficult time, so the hon. Gentleman need not lecture me about efficiency. He needs to tell me how placing a moratorium on change in the NHS helps it to respond and deliver those efficiencies. That is the contradiction of his position, and he stood for election on that policy, as did others.
Mr Lansley
That is absolutely not true, because we ordered absolutely no cuts in the NHS budget in 2010-11 compared with the spending plans that we inherited. So that is a complete own goal on the right hon. Gentleman’s part. And in regard to all that stuff that he talked about the support that the NHS is giving to social care, I can tell him that, with the exception of the underspend in the departmental central budgets, because we cut back on all of its bureaucracy and its IT programme, we spent over £150 million, or whatever it was—
Mr Lansley
Sit down for a minute. I am answering the shadow Secretary of State. As I was saying, more than £150 million was generated from underspends in the departmental central budget in the last three months of the last financial year, and it was spent with local authorities in supporting social care. The rest of the social care support is for 2011-12, so what the right hon. Gentleman said cannot be a reason for the underspend in 2010-11. The amount spent was all in PCT allocations; there was no mechanism by which the Department of Health could go out and ask PCTs to spend less—the money was allocated to them. The shadow Secretary of State shakes his head, but he knows it is true. The money was allocated to the PCTs and they were free to spend the money they had.
The first reason to reject the motion is that it is a spectacular own goal. The second reason to reject it—
Mr Lansley
I am sorry, but that is another spectacular own goal. Both before and after the election, the chief executive of the NHS set aside, as the right hon. Gentleman had planned before the election, £1.7 billion for non-recurrent expenditure for the costs of NHS reorganisation. It was done before the election; we never changed the figure. It is not a consequence of any of our plans, but a precise consequence of the right hon. Gentleman’s. He said he accepted the Nicholson challenge, and the £1.7 billion non-recurrent set aside in 2010-11 was to fund that challenge. That was set out before the election, not after it. I thought that one of the benefits of the former Secretary of State coming here to debate matters would be that we would be treated to a bit of knowledge of the NHS and of how it works, but that does not seem to be the case at all.
Mr Lansley
No, I want to make a bit of progress. Strictly speaking, I have not yet said anything I intended to say.
Mr Lansley
No. I have given way many times. I am answering the hon. Member for Edmonton (Mr Love). It was very clear that we could not proceed on that basis.
I have another point for the hon. Member for Edmonton about what I found in a number places. Although this was not true of the moratorium in Maidstone and Chase Farm, the moratorium has led to substantially improved outcomes for local services elsewhere, as with Burnley, Solihull, Sidcup, Ealing, the Whittington hospital and other places.
Mr Lansley
No. I am still answering a point raised in an earlier intervention. In all those places and others, the moratorium has led to better solutions.
Mr Lansley
The right hon. Member for Leigh says from a sedentary position that he did not ignore the panel’s advice. I do not believe that a Secretary of State has directly sought to contradict the panel since its establishment, or has sought not to comply with its recommendations. After all, it is there for a reason. The point is that, as I have made clear, the panel should be involved in the application of those four tests, and in the past that has tended not to happen.
Let me explain why I am asking the House to reject the motion. I believe—and this was always my approach in opposition—that when we table such a motion, we ought at least to be clear about what our alternative solution would be, but there is no such solution in the motion. Let me remind the new, or recycled, shadow Secretary of State what his old friend James Purnell wrote last February:
“The Tories appear to have the centre ground. Labour need to take it back—by coming out in favour of free schools and GP commissioning”.
The right hon. Gentleman did not come out in favour of free schools. He now says that he is coming out in favour of GP commissioning. If he believed in GP commissioning, why did he do nothing about it? Why did everyone in the general practice community, throughout the length and breadth of the country, believe that practice-based commissioning had come to a virtual halt? Why did David Colin-Thomé, the right hon. Gentleman’s own national clinical director for primary care, effectively say that it had completely stalled and was not going anywhere?
I know that the right hon. Gentleman agreed with this at one time. Back in 2006, he said of GP commissioning:
“That change will put power in the hands of local GPs to drive improvements in their area, so it should give more power to their elbow than they have at present. That is what I would like to see”.—[Official Report, 16 May 2006; Vol. 446, c. 861.]
If the right hon. Gentleman wants that to happen, he must support the Bill that will make it happen. The same applies to health improvement and public health leadership in local government, and to our finally arriving at a point when, as was the last Labour Government’s intention, all NHS trusts become foundation trusts. We are going to make those things happen, but in order to do so we must have a legislative structure that supports them. That is evolutionary, not revolutionary. However much the right hon. Gentleman rants about the changes being made in the Bill, the truth is that it will do—in what his predecessor, the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) described as a “consistent, coherent and comprehensive” way—much of what was intended by our predecessors as Secretaries of State under the last Government. The fact that the right hon. Gentleman turned his back on that at the end of his time in office—mainly at the behest of the trade unions, which seem to be the dominant force in Labour politics—does not absolve him of his responsibility to accept that we are now delivering the reforms that he talked about.
Grahame M. Morris
The Secretary of State told my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) that there had been no cuts in the NHS budget. Does he recall cancelling the building project for a new hospital serving my constituents in south Easington as part of the comprehensive spending review?
Mr Lansley
On the occasion when the Chief Secretary to the Treasury told the House that we were supporting a number of hospital projects, we made it clear that the hon. Gentleman’s local trust was a foundation trust. As his colleagues should tell him, the point of a foundation trust is that it should take more responsibility for securing the resources—
Mr Lansley
I am answering the hon. Gentleman’s question. The point of a foundation trust is that it should take more responsibility for securing the resources enabling it to undertake its own building projects. Foundation trusts cannot walk into the Department of Health imagining that they will receive a capital grant of more than £400 million. That is simply not the way it works. It is to the credit of the hon. Gentleman’s local trust that it accepted that, and is working, as a foundation trust, on a better solution for the hon. Gentleman’s area.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
Although the words “shocking legacy” are ringing in my ears, I find it difficult to believe them, given Labour’s legacy on the NHS compared with what it inherited in 1997. Expenditure was increased from £30 billion in 1997 to £103 billion when we left office, and we had record patient satisfaction ratings. It beggars belief that that can be considered a shocking legacy.
Grahame M. Morris
If the hon. Gentleman does not mind, I will continue my introduction and give way in a moment.
I wish to recognise the contribution of the NHS staff, who are the source of great pride. They have done such a great job, and continue to do so, even in difficult circumstances, in delivering the very high levels of patient satisfaction reported in the recent surveys.
In November 2010, the Backbench Business Committee selected my application for a debate on the impact of the comprehensive spending review on the Department of Health, the NHS and public health. So many of the issues that have been raised are implanted in my mind, not least the loss of the funding for a new hospital that would have served many of my constituents in the south of Easington. I am concerned about the particular reference that has been made to that and I would be grateful if the Secretary of State or the Minister would deal with that in their closing remarks. A value-for-money assessment was made by both the Department of Health and the Treasury and it was found that the best way to take forward that proposal was with public funding, rather than through the private finance initiative route. The disingenuous position repeated by those on the Government Benches, including the charges laid against the Labour Opposition about our support for PFI, has been compounded. I remind right hon. and hon. Members on the Government Benches that in the case of the new hospital planned for my area we were directed to the PFI route, despite the criticism that has come from the Secretary of State and other Members on the Government Benches.
I am pleased that the motion focuses on the failed personal pledges of both the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State. A key promise was made to increase real-terms expenditure on the NHS, but it is another broken promise. It is probably the most fundamental one, as the NHS is such a beloved institution of the whole British public. Before the election, the Conservatives promised to protect the NHS and give it a real-terms budget increase year on year. The coalition document promised a 0.4% real-terms budget increase for the NHS over the spending review period.
I am sure that we all saw the expensive billboards before the election, to which my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) referred. They showed the Prime Minister, then Leader of the Opposition, saying:
“I’ll cut the deficit, not the NHS.”
That was not really about rebranding the NHS; it was more an exercise in conning the British public. Whereas Labour gave a guarantee to protect the front line of the NHS, the Health Secretary, then the shadow Health Secretary, saw a cynical opportunity to give a guarantee on spending. We now know from the Treasury’s own figures that that guarantee was false: it is a promise that has been broken. It was a guarantee that went against all the Tory mantra. We are constantly told by the Conservative party that public service delivery is not about how much we spend but about how we spend it—in fact, we heard that today from the Prime Minister in relation to police numbers. However, the Tory promise was never about protecting the NHS; it was about protecting the Tory brand.
Even the Tories’ biggest backers realise that the promise to increase funding on the NHS was a con. The Secretary of State cited James Purnell a little earlier, so perhaps I might cite Fraser Nelson, who is not a well-known socialist—he writes for The Spectator and is a right-wing commentator. He says:
“It has become clear now that there was a cynical competition to dupe the British public into believing that if they voted Tory at the General Election, the NHS would be safe.”
After 13 years of unprecedented rises in the NHS budget under Labour, and efficiency measures such as those on procurement—
Henry Smith
The hon. Gentleman is talking about the 13 years under the previous Labour Government. I do not know what happened in his constituency, but my constituency lost accident and emergency provision, and we lost maternity provision. That was the direct consequence of Labour’s Department of Health.
Grahame M. Morris
I think we saw an unprecedented period of growth with the building of new hospitals and new facilities. I have some sympathy with the hon. Member for Enfield North (Nick de Bois) and what he is going through with the Chase Farm downgrading, because in my area the Hartlepool accident and emergency facility is also being downgraded to an urgent treatment centre. That is a cause of consternation among the public.
Grahame M. Morris
Well, it is being done under the Secretary of State’s Administration when an impression was given that there would be a moratorium and that we would not face such downgrading and closures. That was clearly a con that was sold to the public, so I do not accept the contention that the hon. Member for Crawley (Henry Smith) has put forward.
Let me press on, because time is limited. The NHS is hurting under this Government and these reckless reforms. On the promises for a real-terms increase, we know that health inflation has surged and that the spending power of the NHS is going down, so will the Minister now admit that the NHS is receiving a real-terms cut? This is not just about the NHS being held hostage to inflation. It is facing real financial pressures on the front line—which Labour promised to protect—for a number of reasons including the Government’s decision to push through this latest reorganisation, which is the biggest the NHS has ever faced, at the same time as pushing through £20 billion-worth of efficiency savings. The figure of £1 billion a year is being taken from the NHS’s existing budgets to meet the growing and ever-increasing costs of social care. The Select Committee on Health is now looking into that issue and I hope that we are able to come forward with some positive ideas that the Minister will consider.
Joan Ruddock
My hon. Friend heard the Secretary of State’s responses to my questions. I know that my hon. Friend served on the Committee considering the Health and Social Care Bill. Will he confirm that competitiveness is still at the heart of that Bill and that the cap on private patients in the NHS is being removed from hospitals?
Grahame M. Morris
I am grateful for that intervention from my right hon. Friend and I should like to place on record, because the Secretary of State did not take the opportunity to do so, that the cap on private patient work, which had been set at 5%, is to be raised by the Bill. That must have a detrimental impact on the NHS in general, and on non-private patients, as resources are directed to the private sector and private patients.
Grahame M. Morris
I shall not, if the hon. Gentleman does not mind, because I do not think I will get any injury time if I do so and I have rather a lot to get through.
I have mentioned the transfer of resources from the NHS budget to meet the growing costs of social care. We have also discovered, from evidence that was given to the Select Committee, that there has been an underspend of almost £2 billion—much of it from the capital budget, with some of it, presumably, being saved by cancelling the new hospital that was to serve my area. Meanwhile many NHS trusts are sitting on hundreds of millions of pounds of debt, and figures produced by the Department of Health show that six large NHS trusts in London are predicting year-end deficits of £170 million. The pressures on the system are enormous and will inevitably show through in reductions in services, having an impact on the front line.
The reductions in tariffs for operations and the further pressures in that area will also mean that foundation and NHS acute trusts will bear the brunt of financial pressures within the system. Again, that means that the buck and the spotlight of transparency are being passed away from the Secretary of State to the NHS Commissioning Board, although he might have to reconsider that after last night’s Lords amendments.
Another area of pressure in the NHS comes from the huge redundancy costs being incurred as a consequence of the premature closure of primary care trusts and strategic health authorities, which is estimated to cost the taxpayer more than £1 billion. The opening up of the NHS entirely to the private sector, and the prospect of the £103 billion NHS budget being taken out of the public sector and placed within the remit of shareholders in private health care companies, is anathema to the majority of the British public. The Minister of State, Department of Health, the right hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns) is cringing, but the majority of the British public are cringing at the thought of this proposal.
Chris Skidmore
The hon. Gentleman will regret his comments. We have to pay back £65 billion on PFI deals that were originally signed for £11 billion—that ain’t minutiae. Many constituents are concerned about the waste that took place under the previous Government.
In 1997, there were 23,400 managers. That has gone up to 42,500. We are making a genuine attempt to tackle the problem. I could go on, but I will put the party politics aside.
Grahame M. Morris
Would the hon. Gentleman care to comment on the National Audit Office report in relation to savings that could be made from NHS procurement? Does he think that fragmenting the NHS will assist that or hinder it?
Chris Skidmore
We are spending £1 billion more than we should on procurement because of the lack of consistency across the NHS, delivered principally by the previous Government. That is one area in which we could make vital savings. The NHS needs to change. Your boss, the Leader of the Opposition, said:
“To protect the NHS is to change it”
and we need to do so. The reforms that we are bringing in are essential if we are to deliver savings and also to ensure that the NHS survives when our ageing population means there will be twice as many 85-year-olds by 2030.
We need to reform the NHS and we do so in the spirit of what Tony Blair and new Labour put forward. Julian Le Grand, Tony Blair’s key adviser, said that the reforms were
“evolutionary, not revolutionary: a logical, sensible extension of those put in place by Tony Blair”.
When I asked him in the Health Committee whether this is what Blair would have done, he said: “Absolutely. Blair ‘would have tried’ to get these reforms through, but I imagine the left of his party may have prevented him from doing so.”
Oral Answers to Questions
Grahame Morris Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Anne Milton
I congratulate Sign Up, Speak Up, Save Lives. I am happy to meet Hope, Abby and the hon. Gentleman, along with the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper). The electoral registration form has been used as an opportunity. In 2000 there was a campaign called Vote for Life, which was stopped after about 15 months because of problems with the Representation of the People Act. I would be happy to revisit it and would enjoy an opportunity to discuss the matter further. Anything we can do to get those rates up matters.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
The reorganisation of NHS procurement has been described in a National Audit Office report as fragmented and poor value for money. The report shows—
Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)
What discussion has the Minister had with Welsh Ministers who are bringing forward legislation for an opt-out system of organ donation? If she has had such discussions, what conclusions has she drawn?
Mr Lansley
My hon. Friend will know, from our conversations and from my visit to Cornwall and the Royal Cornwall Hospitals NHS Trust, the steps that we are taking alongside other NHS trusts to bring them up to high standards of care and financial sustainability. In that regard, the 3.1% increase in revenue allocations for the Cornwall and Isles of Scilly primary care trust between last year and this year will help Cornwall as a whole towards greater financial sustainability.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
I am grateful, Mr Speaker. On indebtedness, the National Audit Office has produced a report on NHS procurement in England, which it describes as “fragmented” and “poor value for money”. The report shows that £500 million could be saved each year if trusts came together to buy products more collaboratively. Is this further evidence that the Government are wrong to pursue an agenda of competition, rather than co-operation?
Mr Lansley
I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is completely wrong about that. In procurement throughout the NHS, what we have had is fragmentation, and what we need is better co-ordination. That is precisely why, since the election, for example, we have instituted a consistent bar-coding system, allowing procurement throughout the NHS to be undertaken more effectively; and why under the quality, innovation, prevention and productivity programme, the improvement in procurement —reducing the costs of procurement—is intended to achieve those savings and more.
Health and Social Care (Re-committed) Bill
Grahame Morris Excerpts(13 years, 1 month ago)
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Mr Lansley
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that. I will deal with that matter in a moment, because subsequent amendments in this group continue the capacity of the Department of Health, for example, to make a loan in those circumstances—that would not change.
Of the five principal changes that I was talking about—
Mr Lansley
I have reached the third of them, so I will carry on for a moment, if I may.
Thirdly, if a provider gets into significant difficulties, we have provided Monitor with powers to be able to try to turn around the provider. The aim would always be to support the recovery of the provider, wherever this was possible. Specifically, the amendments require Monitor to maintain an ongoing assessment of risk to the continued supply of NHS services. Monitor must then intervene proactively to help a provider to address problems and, where necessary, agree contingency plans with commissioners. New clause 2 and amendments 100 to 104 achieve this.
Fourthly, we have put in place provisions to deal with the rare event of a provider no longer being sustainable in its current form. In that instance, the priority must be to secure continued access to the services patients need. This protection is particularly important in relation to foundation trusts, which of course are the principal providers of acute, emergency and specialist hospital services.
So we have put forward amendments that would build and improve on the previous Government’s regime established under the Health Act 2009. The improvements would ensure that foundation trusts do not revert to being NHS trusts and that commissioners take the lead in securing continued access to NHS services, and they would increase democratic legitimacy by allowing the Secretary of State to intervene in individual cases to protect patients’ interests. At the same time, we are retaining Bill provisions to allow Monitor proactively to regulate to secure continued access of NHS services delivered by companies and social enterprises, through provisions on the health special administration regime, should these providers become unsustainable. New clause 6 and amendments 107, 188 to 193, 195 to 204, 217, 218 and 371 to 372 achieve this.
Fifthly, it is essential that political accountability runs through what hon. Members will all know is central to our responsibilities to our constituents. Our plans therefore strengthen political accountability at both the local and national level. At a local level, the amendments enhance democratic legitimacy by extending local authority scrutiny to all NHS services. That is in contrast to previous proposals, where only designated services would have been subject to such scrutiny. At a national level, we will establish a process for the Secretary of State to veto proposals, in individual cases relating to unsustainable foundation trusts, if he decides that they do not secure continued access to NHS services and, as a last resort, to intervene where he believes that the NHS commissioning board or Monitor has failed to discharge its functions. This veto will ensure that the Secretary of State retains all the powers needed to retain his role—
Mr Lansley
In a moment. I want to complete the five points; otherwise people might not see them in their entirety.
The veto will ensure that the Secretary of State retains the powers needed to fulfil his role in promoting a comprehensive health service. Amendments 205 to 207 and 208 to 216 achieve this.
Grahame M. Morris
Will the right hon. Gentleman clarify an issue to do with the Secretary of State’s powers to intervene in the event of failure? I am thinking in particular of the reports about freedom of information requests that appeared in The Guardian earlier in the week, which said that Department of Health officials had been in discussions with Helios about a potential transfer of between 10 and 20 NHS hospitals to the private sector. Is that a scenario in which the Secretary of State would use his powers?
Mr Lansley
I do not recognise such a scenario and in any case there will be no transfer of NHS-owned organisations and the estate and property of such to the private sector. We are not engaging in privatisation, so to that extent the question does not arise.
I must also make it clear that the implication of the proposals I have just described—
Mr Lansley
The point I am making is that we are not transferring foundation trusts or NHS trusts into the private sector. We are not planning to do that. The particular case to which the hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) referred was misrepresented as a proposal to transfer the ownership of NHS organisations. There is no such proposal; we are not planning to do that.
As I have described, the Bill would establish a comprehensive system of regulation focused on protecting and promoting patients’ interests and applicable to all providers of NHS services. The purpose of part 3 is to protect our health services from the unrestrained operation of market forces—otherwise, why would we want this structure of regulation? That is why it is there. The provisions will ensure that services are not destabilised or undermined and will protect the public and patients’ interests.
Let us consider the implications of the Labour party’s amendment 10, which would remove part 3 of the Bill. The impact of removing part 3 would be to expose the NHS to the full force of competition law, as I described earlier, without the safeguard of a health sector regulator and without any sensitivity to the needs of patients, health services and our NHS. It should not be beyond the wit of Opposition Members to recall the impact on the health service and, in particular, on pharmacy services, when the Office of Fair Trading undertook an inquiry into the provision of pharmacy services from a competition perspective without any reference to the health perspective.
Mr Lansley
No.
That is what happened in the past and it is important that it does not happen in the future. We must have a health sector-specific regulator to see the health-related aspects of such matters.
Labour’s amendment 10 would potentially expose the NHS to practices that we do not wish to see. That would include paying over the odds for private sector services, as the previous Government did when they paid £250 million extra to the independent sector for operations that were never carried out; the cherry-picking of easier operations by the private sector, which is an issue in the NHS because the previous Labour Government let it happen; unreformed payment by results, losing the focus on outcomes and integration; and the retention of a system of payment based on price. We are not introducing payment by results; we are reforming it. Payment by results, as implemented by the Labour party, was simply payment for price and volume, not for quality.
Amendment 10 would leave independent sector providers of NHS-funded services, which serve hundreds of thousands of patients a year, unregulated by Monitor and unprotected if the service in which they are being treated gets into financial difficulty. So Opposition Members will wish to consider whether all of those things are what they want to be voting for when they walk through the Lobby later on.
Mr Dorrell
I agree that the sustainability of essential services—or, in the Government’s wording, the continuity of essential services—is a key role of Monitor. If I may interpret what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said, the patient’s interest is continuity of service, but not necessarily from the same provider for ever more. There has to be a commitment to sustain the service, and if there is to be a change of provider, the service has to be sustained through the change of provider, but the service does not necessarily have to be sustained by the same provider. Nor has there ever been such sustained service. There are not many people who rely on the service once provided by the Westminster hospital, as it is now a block of flats. I believe, however, that the service delivered to patients in this part of London is better as a consequence of the change that resulted from that decision.
Grahame M. Morris
As always, the Chairman of the Health Select Committee, is making a powerful contribution. He has really hit the nail on the head. The fundamental point, as evidenced in the Bill, is not that the provider could change—that has happened in the past, as he said, although the provider has always been a public sector provider, either in an NHS trust or an NHS foundation trust—but that, under the Bill, the provider could well be a private sector provider.
Mr Dorrell
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who is a member of the Select Committee, because he provides me with a link to my next point—I was beginning to wonder how I was going to get on to it.
The health service has not always provided services from a public sector provider. Until this Bill and the powers it gives to Monitor, regulatory bodies in the public sector had not had the opportunity to inquire into the sustainability of services provided by private sector providers. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State made the point that the role of Monitor under the Bill is to ensure first—if I may repeat myself—that foundation trusts are of a high quality when they are launched; secondly, that they are accountable for retaining their high standards; thirdly, that we intervene early if they start to go off the rails; and, fourthly, that if they get into serious difficulty, we have the capacity, through Monitor, to continue to deliver continuity of service to those who rely on public health provision, whether from an NHS foundation trust or, as a result of the Bill, for the first time from the private sector. I regard that as a significant step forward in the delivery of continuity of care for NHS patients, whether provided, as the vast majority still will be, by public sector institutions or by some of the independent sector treatment centres introduced by the previous Government.
Grahame M. Morris
May I take up my right hon. Friend’s point about effective scrutiny and the assurances that Ministers have given the House? The knives prevented us from debating two of the Bill’s most significant clauses in terms of costs and implications, clauses 29 and 30, which deal with the abolition of strategic health authorities and primary care trusts. The redundancy costs will amount to more than £1,000 million.
Frank Dobson
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. I think that nowadays those who call themselves members of the Conservative party only purport to be Conservatives. The basic Conservative approach in this world is, broadly speaking, not to make great changes without being absolutely certain that substantial benefits will result from them. A proper Conservative recognises the problems that arise during the process of change, and the unpredictability of things in human life. What we have now, certainly in relation in health and possibly in other spheres, is a Government who are going ahead with something which—good God!—cannot be regarded as well thought out, given that they have tabled 1,000 amendments on Report.
Grahame M. Morris
I am privileged to have the opportunity to speak in this debate on an issue close to my heart. A number of Opposition Members—and perhaps Members across the whole of the House—have taken advantage of the opportunity to spend a day with the NHS to see at first hand some of the issues and problems and to discuss with staff and patients their concerns. Many Members have received e-mails and letters from constituents and from various interest groups, and the issues we are considering this evening are very important.
As my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) said during his contribution, the NHS holds a very special place in people’s affections. In many respects it is viewed not unlike a religion, in so far as it is loved and cherished. Members who have had the opportunity to travel to other countries and see different health systems will no doubt be well aware of the high esteem in which our own health service is held throughout the world. It is a real exemplar—a model of a publicly funded, publicly provided health service. As an aside, I point out as a member of the Select Committee on Health that we have a very frugal Chairman, and the furthest we have travelled is to Hackney. My knowledge is therefore based on reading and on evidence submitted to the Committee.
Let us consider the problem we face with the Bill and the amendments and new clauses. I listened carefully to the Secretary of State’s statement, and the real concern among patients, the public and the Opposition is, what are the motivations behind these reforms? I worked in the health service for a dozen years or more and have taken the trouble to look into the various options in some detail. Ministers have said that there are precedents for Bills of this complexity, but I would be staggered to find that there are. It is incredibly complicated and has been subject to numerous amendments. As members of the Bill Committee who are in the Chamber this evening know, many of the arguments originally made by Government Front Benchers were turned on their heads in Committee, and some of those that were rubbished by the Opposition were taken up and rehashed as part of the Future Forum.
Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con)
I am listening very carefully to the hon. Gentleman, as I did in Committee. Indeed, those of us who served on both Committees—the original and the re-committal—deserve a badge of honour. He talks about the Bill being complex. Does he not think that the process has been made more complex by the use of misinformation and emotive language, and by campaigners obscuring the Bill and needlessly causing patients to worry about their ability to access the health service once the Bill has been passed? The point is that free access at the point of need is not changing, and that is what most patients care most about. Does he not agree?
Grahame M. Morris
I am afraid I do not agree with the hon. Lady, as she might expect. The Secretary of State said that it was a question of communication, but I suspect that part of the problem with the Bill is that, far from there being additional clarity, the more that Members of Parliament, the medical profession, health care workers, members of the public and informed commentators have examined the proposals in detail, the greater the number of concerns that have arisen.
If the Secretary of State had been open and honest about the direction of travel and the motivation for these health reforms, perhaps we could have avoided some of the confusions that have arisen. There is no electoral mandate for a huge structural review and reorganisation. I suspect that there is something seriously wrong with the whole privatising agenda and philosophy, which the Secretary of State denies.
Rosie Cooper
Does my hon. Friend believe that misinformation and emotive language almost began and ended when the Prime Minister said that the NHS was safe in his hands? The misinformation began when he fooled the British public into thinking that the NHS was safe. This is the result.
Grahame M. Morris
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that issue, which I will return to later. There were assurances that there would be no top-down reorganisations, but we should note the scale and complexity of this huge, top-down reorganisation. The Government alluded in Committee to the costs of administration, as did other members of the Committee. During Health questions and in Committee, I raised the question of the huge costs of administering Monitor, which have grown exponentially. We have had various estimates from the Government about the true cost, but over the lifetime of a Parliament it could be as much as £500 million, once we know the full extent of the legal challenges that Monitor will be expected to defend. That is a colossal sum.
I wanted to intervene when the Secretary of State referred to clause 60 of the original Bill and the intention to extend the duties of Monitor into the social care element of health and social care, but he would not allow me to do so. I wanted to ask whether any estimate has been made of the cost of such an extension of Monitor’s remit, which I suspect will be considerable.
Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)
The Secretary of State mentioned 38 Degrees, which clearly has touched a raw nerve. Quite apart from the people from 38 Degrees who have contacted me, huge numbers of my constituents have contacted me to express real worries about this issue. Given the concerns of the Opposition, the press and, most importantly, the voting public, how does my hon. Friend think that we all got so out of step with the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State?
Grahame M. Morris
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for expressing that concern, which many people share—even among the Government, although perhaps they conceal it. Such concerns are not restricted just to 38 Degrees and Opposition politicians. Lord Tebbit of Chingford, an outspoken man who could hardly be described as a left-wing agitator, raised real concerns about what he described as these privatising reforms. He said that there is something seriously wrong, and that
“What worries me about the reforms…is the difficulty of organising fair competition between the state-owned hospitals and those in the private sector. In my time I have seen many efforts to create competition between state-owned airlines, car factories and steel makers. They all came unstuck. The unfairnesses were not all one way and they spring from the fact that state-owned and financed businesses and private sector ones are different animals”.
I have rarely found myself in agreement with Lord Tebbit, but on this occasion his analysis is extraordinarily insightful. His comments underline many of the basic contradictions in the Bill and in the subsequent amendments, which number more than 1,000.
Fiona O'Donnell
Apart, perhaps, from his warm comments about Lord Tebbit, my hon. Friend is, as ever, making a well-informed and considered contribution. We face a lack of information, inaccuracy and changing numbers. Does he therefore agree that what we also need, given the concerns raised by many hon. Members about the potential for an increased health inequality gap in this country, is an equality assessment of the Bill?
Grahame M. Morris
I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s contribution, as that is an excellent point. If hon. Members will bear with me, I shall discuss new clause 6 and what I believe the implications of the Government’s proposal would be for the Bill and for health inequalities. I was intrigued by the Secretary of State’s assurances in his opening statement about the responsibilities being conferred on him in the Bill that did not apply when Labour was in power. I believe he said that those powers were devolved to primary care trusts, but if PCTs are disappearing or clustering and strategic health authorities are disappearing over time or being clustered, surely it is right that the Secretary of State, as an accountable politician, should have these powers clearly defined in the Bill. I did not mean to digress, Mr Deputy Speaker. Those remarks related to clause 1 and I shall confine myself to the provisions before us.
As I have said, many concerns have been raised about the approach being taken to this cherished institution, not least those set out by my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras about patient perception.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the survey carried out among the 50,000 members of the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy? It indicated that 81% do not agree with the proposals for NHS reform—that touches on the issue that he just raised. It also indicated that 89%—almost nine out of 10 of those who work in the health service—believe that patient care will suffer and that 84% do not believe that the Government have considered these changes. Does he believe that the level of concern among those workers in the health service, and among the general public, means that whenever the vote takes place tonight hon. Members should be very careful and should oppose the Bill?
Grahame M. Morris
I am grateful for that information. I know that other hon. Members have spent a day with the health service and I am sure that Ministers take soundings, but I can honestly say that what the hon. Gentleman describes is the feedback I have received from talking to health professionals, patients and so on. I recognise that the Secretary of State has said on numerous occasions that a substantial body of GPs support this approach. When I tuned in to this morning’s “BBC Breakfast” I saw Professor Chris Ham of the King’s Fund being interviewed. He is an eminent and respected commentator on health service issues who has given evidence to the Public Bill Committee and the Health Committee. He gave his view that it was a small cohort of GPs who were signed up and committed to these reforms. I agree with his assessment.
These provisions deal with the role of Monitor, the relevant implications and changes to the failure regime. A “Panorama” documentary on the BBC featured Sir Gerry Robinson, who has some standing in the business community and for previous journalistic investigations into the NHS. The conclusion of his report was that he thought that these reforms could mean
“the end of the NHS.”
That is his conclusion. Even after meeting the Secretary of State he remained unconvinced of the value of the reforms.
The Secretary of State has failed to persuade the public and he has failed to persuade NHS staff of his approach. That has been illustrated by various surveys, through the British Medical Association, by personal contacts and in other ways. Even elements of the business community recognise the level of public opposition and concern. It seems that the principal backers are overseas US-style private health groups, whose interest is not philanthropic. They see the prospect of substantial profits and unprecedented access to billions of pounds soon to be available from NHS coffers. We hear Ministers and Government Members saying that the NHS was open to private sector providers under the previous Administration, and a very small figure—5% or so—was cited in the Public Bill Committee proceedings.
Frank Dobson
My hon. Friend may like to know that even in the final year of the Labour Government just 2.1% of operations were carried out by the private sector.
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)
My hon. Friend is right to talk about the potential role for overseas health companies. He might have seen the article in The Guardian yesterday stating:
“A German company has been in talks to take over NHS hospitals, the first tangible evidence that foreign multinationals will be able to run state-owned acute services”.
That has become apparent only through freedom of information requests. Does my hon. Friend think that this is the slippery slope that this Bill is going to usher in?
Grahame M. Morris
That point was raised during the Secretary of State’s earlier remarks. [Interruption.] Well, it came in response to a freedom of information request. I thought that his response was illuminating, as he assured us that that would not involve the transfer of NHS real estate, although he did not rule out the possibility that private sector providers would take over the running of these things. The report that I saw said that they would take responsibility for the management and staff, and he gave no rebuttal of that report.
Grahame M. Morris
I will give the Minister an opportunity to do that, if he so wishes.
Mr Burns
There is an air of déjà vu to this debate now, although I am delighted to be taking part in a debate with the hon. Gentleman yet again. May I point out that the only example of what he is saying relates to Hinchingbrooke hospital? What happened there was started by the previous Labour Government—his Government.
Grahame M. Morris
I do not wish to labour the point, but the report in The Guardian said that freedom of information requests to the Department of Health indicated that discussions were taking place between officials in respect of the transfer of between 10 and 20 NHS units—[Interruption.] I am simply reporting what I have read in the paper.
Mr Burns
May I say to the hon. Gentleman that that report is unadulterated claptrap? The trouble is that it was a misunderstanding of the contents of the e-mails. [Laughter.] The right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) may think that that is funny, but the e-mails were not about these bodies taking over NHS hospitals; the e-mails were about discussing what their views are on hospitals that are struggling. The e-mails were part of an information-gathering mechanism to find out how policy in the NHS could be improved to deal, within the NHS, with hospitals that might be struggling as part of the foundation trust pipeline.
Grahame M. Morris
I do not find this at all funny. I would find it really worrying if this report is an indication of what is in store. It is rather ironic that the Secretary of State quoted from the Labour party manifesto. Perhaps it might be instructive if I were to quote from the Conservative party manifesto. It said that the Conservatives would
“defend the NHS from Labour’s cuts and reorganisations”.
If this Bill is not the biggest reorganisation that we have ever seen—[Interruption.] Well, it is, even though the Conservatives said that they would not proceed with any such huge reorganisation.
Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)
Would not the Secretary of State be able to clear that up tonight by giving a categorical assurance that no hospital will be transferred to or run by a foreign entity?
Grahame M. Morris
I am happy to give way to the Minister, if he wishes to give that assurance from the Dispatch Box. It would reassure staff and members of the public. Perhaps we can read something into the Minister’s reluctance to give such an assurance.
The Government, despite the spin, are delivering one of the most radical reorganisations ever and in the view of many Opposition Members it will undermine the basic principles of the NHS. When the Health Secretary was shadow spokesman for the then Opposition, at no point did he explain his plan to apply 1980s-style privatisation mechanisms to the NHS. I am an avid follower of health policy and the idea of creating an economic regulator—as we have discovered through a series of parliamentary questions, the costs of Monitor could be £500 million in a single Parliament—is again ironic when we hear the Government talk about waste and bureaucracy.
As for exposing the NHS to competition law, I accept the point made by the hon. Member for Southport (John Pugh), which was also made by my own Front Benchers, that it is not the provisions on the face of the Bill but the changes to the architecture of the NHS that will expose the NHS to European competition law—the same law, as we have heard, as applies to the utility companies. Health would be considered a commodity and £60 billion of the NHS budget would be handed over to private bodies, by which I mean those bodies that were the GP commissioning consortia, now renamed clinical commissioning groups. Despite the assurances about openness, transparency and accountability, those would be private-sector companies and my understanding is that they would not be open to FOI requests. That must be of huge concern to people who champion civil liberties, freedom and transparency. Over the past six years or so, we had no indication from the Secretary of State that he was planning such a radical change.
On the subject of the new failure regime, as set out in the amendments, having sat through the Public Bill Committee on the initial Bill as well as that on the re-committed Bill and having listened intently to the arguments, I cannot decide even now whether this is a U-turn or a side-step. I have read this huge document—the weighty tome that makes up the Bill, with all its various chapters and parts—as well as the impact study and the whole justification behind the Ministers’ arguments was that the NHS needed a market and a failure regime to boost productivity. Has that whole idea been left by the wayside?
Dr Poulter
Does the hon. Gentleman accept, however, that the previous Government failed to put in place any adequate failure regime to deal with situations such as that which occurred at Stafford hospital and that the Bill is a step towards providing a proper overview of what to do when trusts fail and let down patients?
Grahame M. Morris
I am not suggesting in any way, shape or form that every NHS organisation—be it an NHS hospital trust or a community-based organisation—is incapable of improvement. My philosophy, as someone with a bit of a scientific background, has always been that we should assemble an evidence base, pilot a proposal in one area, establish best practice, see where the faults lie, tweak it if necessary and then, if it works, roll it out. This leap-in-the dark approach is flawed and will end in tears. The service is hugely important and touches everybody’s life in this country at one time or another. The whole concept of the Bill is flawed and the way it has been prosecuted is compounding the problem.
Grahame M. Morris
Absolutely. At this late stage in the process, however, these are huge and significant changes.
Nicky Morgan
Just to help the hon. Gentleman, a number of the amendments relate to the continuity of services, which his party and those on his Front Bench asked to have considered by this House on Report rather than being left to the Lords. I am sure that the Ministers can help, but if that subject was not included, I suspect that the number of amendments would be significantly smaller. It is right that they should be considered in this House at this time—does he not agree?
Diana Johnson
Does my hon. Friend agree that if this Bill had been properly drafted in the first place and there had been proper pre-legislative scrutiny, we would not have to have this cartload of amendments brought in at the last moment?
Grahame M. Morris
Again, that is a really good point. An incredible number of complex and detailed changes have taken place during the passage of the Bill, including the listening exercise and the consideration of a series of complex amendments, and even they did not address every issue that had been raised. Essentially, I am trying to say in a clumsy kind of way that the Bill is poorly thought out. I think it is a bad Bill, and if it is implemented it will cause real problems for the service and the people who use it.
Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)
I do not think my hon. Friend is making a clumsy speech at all; he is making a lot of very good points. His point about the Bill being badly drafted and set out is why I have been inundated over the past few days with messages from a range of professionals and service users who are very concerned about where things are going. I applaud my hon. Friend’s approach.
Grahame M. Morris
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his point and for his kind words. My contention is that the problem with all these reforms is that they tend to unravel once there is an opportunity for not just Members of Parliament but health care professionals and the broader public properly to scrutinise them. Once people have the chance to consider the proposals in detail, there is an outcry such as that described by my hon. Friend.
I have tried to understand the thinking behind the Government’s changes and amendments. As I mentioned earlier, many of the changes fly in the face of the logic of the arguments originally made in Committee and when the Bill was first published. The obvious logical conundrum, if that is the term, can be seen in the fact that the original impact assessments, which were very comprehensive, said that it was essential to create a functioning market to gain the benefit of the reforms. A whole section of the impact study explained why “market exit” was fundamental to reforming the NHS. I heard what the Minister said earlier and I have read the Government’s amendments, but I am not quite convinced—perhaps I am a bit of a cynic—that this is a real concession. If we follow the Government’s logic, that makes the Bill as a package at best inconsistent and at worst it removes the possible benefits that Government Members may wish to promote in terms of the costs of any market system. Instead, we are subject to a strange system. The Secretary of State initially mentioned creating a level playing field to allow access for private health care firms as well as existing NHS and public providers. There are therefore some basic contradictions in the rationale behind some of the reforms, if there was any merit in the arguments initially.
Tom Blenkinsop
Is my hon. Friend concerned, as I am, that 2% of PCT budgets—approximately £2 billion—is being used for this reorganisation? There is a direct effect on my community and the Redcar and Cleveland PCT, where almost £4 million has been taken from health inequality budgets, which could have been used on the front line.
Grahame M. Morris
I am making rather slow progress, but I did want to get on to health inequalities. My hon. Friend makes an excellent and important point. We touched on it briefly in the Bill Committee and it relates to new clause 6. I was concerned about the reports that in the allocations to PCTs and SHAs, the element set aside for addressing health inequalities had been reduced. That should concern us all, especially those who represent areas that suffer high levels of health inequality and deprivation.
It is a bit of an achievement that the Government could take the NHS at its most successful point and turn it around. Government Members have highlighted particular failings, but the NHS had a record number of doctors and nurses and a hospital building programme. There had been a transformation from waiting times of 18 months for routine operations such as knee and hip replacements or removal of cataracts to only a few weeks. The previous Government should be given some credit for that. The improvement was confirmed in patient satisfaction surveys and it is a great shame that the Government have decided not to commission the Department of Health to conduct such studies in the future. I suspect their motives in that regard.
Dr Poulter
That is a good point. Under the previous Government cataract and hip operations were done more quickly, but that was because the Labour Government commissioned private providers. The unfortunate thing was that the providers cherry-picked services and did not provide the integrated health care that this Bill will provide.
Grahame M. Morris
We had this exchange many times in the Committee on a variety of clauses. We need to give some credit to the previous Government. I am old enough to remember when people routinely waited a year, 18 months or longer for life-changing operations such as knee and hip replacements. It is a real quality-of-life issue if someone has cataracts and has to wait a long time for an operation. I accept that Labour used the private sector. I am a socialist and make no apology for that, and I want the provision to be public sector. I was not a Member of Parliament and did not vote for the commissioning of private providers, but I acknowledge that the private sector played a role in bringing extra capacity and some innovation to the service.
Barbara Keeley
My hon. Friend is making a wonderful speech. I wanted to make this point when my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) was speaking about the number of operations and the improvements during Labour’s term of office.
In the 1997 general election when I was campaigning in Wythenshawe and Sale, East constituency, I met someone who had been told that he had to wait two years for vital surgery and was desperately worried that he would die while he was waiting. I met someone in my constituency in last year’s general election campaign who received a diagnostic test on Monday, found he had cancer on Tuesday, went into hospital on Wednesday and was operated on on Thursday and his life was saved. From two years to four days—I thought that was the best testament to the improvement that Labour had brought about in the NHS.
Grahame M. Morris
I am grateful for that example. It illustrates the importance of that improvement, the value that people place on it and how critical it is to people’s health and well-being.
I know that we shall come later to the clauses that lift the cap on private patient work, which the Minister mentioned in his opening remarks. If the cap on private patient work in NHS foundation trusts is lifted and those trusts are under financial pressure—those of us who are in touch with our hospital trusts know that they are under financial pressure, with the reductions in the tariff and other issues—the level of private sector involvement in NHS trusts will increase.
Rosie Cooper
The hon. Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter), who is also a member of the Select Committee, pointed out that Labour reduced waiting lists and private providers were involved. Does my hon. Friend agree that the general public now face longer waiting lists and more private providers?
Grahame M. Morris
This is the danger. Labour Members have attempted to highlight it, and people are increasingly aware of it.
Frank Dobson
Does my hon. Friend accept that if we want to look at how best to increase the number of people who are treated, the best thing to do is go to the people who do the treatment? When I was Health Secretary, the NHS was doing 160,000 cataract operations a year. Following discussions with the experts, some changes were made—no structural changes—and in the last year for which figures are available the NHS did 346,000 cataract operations a year. The private sector’s contribution averaged 6,000 a year.
Grahame M. Morris
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for putting those important statistics on the record. Government Members often raised these issues in the Bill Committee so it is helpful to have that clarified with such precision.
I want to deal in more detail with health inequalities, if that is in order, Mr Deputy Speaker. While serving on the Bill Committee and as a member of the Health Select Committee, I have always tried to champion the cause of reducing health inequalities. In the Bill Committee, Opposition Members pushed for greater duties to reduce health inequalities to be placed on the new bodies being created by the Bill.
I am conscious that there has been some movement in this direction. New clause 6 is relevant to the special administration of services and makes references to health inequalities. I would be grateful if the Minister gave some clarification in respect of the point that I wish to make. I am delighted that the Government have recognised that a market system in health care will only worsen health inequalities. My rationale in making that statement is that at least new clause 6 says that services must be kept open where closure would adversely impact on or increase health inequalities. Opposition Members are not convinced that the safeguards are strong enough, that the safeguards could not be overturned or that inherent health inequalities that areas such as mine suffer from so terribly, largely reflecting socio-economic patterns in society, would not be exacerbated.
Grahame M. Morris
That is a good point. Like the curate’s egg, the Bill is good in parts—and bad in parts. I am prepared to acknowledge the commitment on health inequalities but, as I have mentioned, there are contradictions in the Bill, and that is what I seek to highlight. My concern is that the new structures proposed in the Bill move us away from a co-ordinated health service and towards a competition-based health service. Failure has been touted by Ministers as a driver of improvement, but following the latest U-turn, that commitment seems to have been dropped. I would welcome Ministers’ views on that.
Our concern is that the health service will be left to the worst elements of privatisation, without the supposed benefits of market competition. Members have referred to the British Medical Association and its calls for a co-operative and co-ordinated environment, which an open market would make impossible. When Dr Clare Gerada, the chair of the Royal College of General Practitioners, gave evidence to the Bill Committee, she raised a number of concerns about the clauses that we are discussing—concerns
“about the duplication of care and fragmentation…the under-provision of care once competition starts kicking in, the pace and extent of change, and the capability capacity and competence of GPs”
to deal with the extent of health needs. Most importantly, she said that
“the Bill risks widening health inequalities and could lead to worse patient care”.––[Official Report, Health and Social Care Public Bill Committee, 8 February 2011; c. 43, Q94.]
Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con)
The hon. Gentleman talks about health inequalities, but does he accept that under the current system primary care trusts have brought about a number of health inequalities? Certainly in my area of north Yorkshire, the PCT has brought about a number of health inequalities, and I think that that is the case in other areas, too. The system is already delivering that; that is why we need the change.
Grahame M. Morris
The picture is incredibly variable. We should consider many of the policies that the Government are pursuing, not least that on public health observatories, which collect the evidence on which many public health interventions are based. The sustained cuts to their budgets—there is a cut of 30% this year, and 30% next year—are exacerbating the situation. Some PCTs are performing well in this regard, and some are not performing as well. If there are measures that can strengthen our performance, they ought to be welcomed.
We have in the past mentioned some of the public health issues. As far back as 1977, the Department of Health and Social Security’s chief scientific adviser, Sir Douglas Black, commissioned a report on the extent of health inequalities in the UK. The Black report, published in 1980, brought about a sea change in how Governments would respond to health inequalities and reduce their worst effects, particularly for the lower social classes. It is generally acknowledged in more recent reports by Professor Sir Michael Marmot that the NHS can only do so much to address the situation. There are general issues that must be addressed through a whole plethora of Government policies—child benefit, improvements in maternity allowances, more pre-school education, an expansion of child care, and better housing. I mention that in relation to the amendments that we are discussing to highlight the stark danger of a reversal in relation to health inequalities, which are not only influenced by decisions of the Health Secretary, but greatly influenced by decisions taken across Government.
I shall draw my remarks to a conclusion. I am sure that Government Members will be relieved to hear that. [Interruption.] Well, I could go on for longer if they want; I have another six pages. I draw the House’s attention to the real concerns that the general public, the medical profession, staff who work in the service and patients have about particular details—about the new and expanded role of Monitor, and about the implications for the new NHS. It will not necessarily be Monitor that decides the future of failing services; in the end, that will be decided in the courts. Finally, in parts 3 and 4, we are dealing with some of the most contentious issues in the Bill, and I urge Members to consider the issues very carefully and to think about what is at stake, before deciding how to vote on the amendments.
Mark Simmonds
I draw the House’s attention to the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.
I congratulate the hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) on a thoughtful, balanced and considered contribution, albeit somewhat lengthy. Some of the key points that he made are worthy of comment. He is absolutely right to highlight the importance of the issue of health inequalities, and it is absolutely right to make sure that the House understands that the Secretary of State and his Ministers are absolutely determined to narrow those inequalities; that is why the Secretary of State has ensured that that is in the Bill.
The hon. Member for Easington is also right to point out that health inequalities are determined not just by health policy. A whole range of factors influence health inequalities, and the best synthesis and summary that I have seen—if he has not read it, he should—is in a report by Professor Marmot.
Mark Simmonds
The hon. Gentleman has read it, which is very good; I see him nodding his head. He also asked a key question about the Government’s motivation for bringing forward the Bill.
Mark Simmonds
I shall finish this point, and then I will happily give way to the hon. Gentleman, because he was extremely generous in giving way. Let me summarise the Government’s motivation in five areas. The first is to improve patient care; the second is to drive up the quality of services; the third is to improve patient outcomes; the fourth is to ensure better value for taxpayers’ money; and the fifth, and perhaps most important, is to ensure that our much-loved national health service has a successful future as a service that is free at the point of need, and a service that is based on requirement, not ability to pay. There should be continued equity of access and, even more importantly, excellence for all.
With the honourable exception of the hon. Gentleman’s contribution, all the contributions from Labour Members, including those on the Front Bench, have completely misrepresented the Bill. There is a degree of complacency creeping into the Labour party. The view that it puts forward—that there is nothing wrong with the national health service, and that it is a perfect, utopian service—is clearly not correct. Its view that no reform or innovation is required is not correct. Its view that no productivity improvements can be made is clearly not correct. The view that there is no problem with patient outcomes across a whole range of clinical indicators compared with the outcomes in our developed-world comparators is clearly not correct. The Labour party’s view that there is no need to reduce the cost of administration and get more resources to front-line patient care is clearly not correct; nor is it correct that there is no need for greater clinical involvement in commissioning and for greater patient choice. The Labour party’s position is purely political. It is not clinical and it does not have the best interests of patients at heart. I urge the Secretary of State and his ministerial team to reject the amendments tabled by Labour.
Mark Simmonds
I hope the hon. Member for Easington has a better intervention to make.
Grahame M. Morris
Can we agree on one thing—that opinions should be evidence-based? I was amazed that when Professor Steve Field was asked whether the Future Forum had taken independent legal advice on the contentious issue of whether European competition law would apply as a result of the reforms—the matter was raised in the Bill Committee or the Select Committee—he said no, he had not taken independent legal advice. That was a major omission.
Oral Answers to Questions
Grahame Morris Excerpts(13 years, 3 months ago)
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Mr Lansley
Yes, I join my hon. Friend in that. I have signed up to the organ donor register and have discussed that with my wife so that she knows my wishes. I encourage others to do the same. In the last few days, I have been to the retirement event of John Wallwork, who was the first surgeon to undertake a successful heart and lung transplant in this country. He has led the charitable activities on transplant over recent years. I know that he would share our desire for more organs to be available for this vital activity.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
Has the Secretary of State had an opportunity to pause, reflect and listen to the NHS foundation trusts, particularly North Tees and Hartlepool NHS Trust, which serves part of my area, given the uncertainties created by the Health and Social Care Bill and the difficulties that they are encountering in raising capital for new build and modernisation? In particular, will he indicate what consideration he has given to detailed safeguards?
Southern Cross Care Homes
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Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
There seems to be a measure of agreement among Members on both sides of the House about the need for proper regulation, oversight and management of these homes. Will the Minister therefore take the opportunity to dissociate himself from the remarks made and position adopted by the Minister of State, Department of Health, the right hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns) on 7 January 2004? He moved an Opposition motion deploring the then Labour Government’s
“over-prescriptive, expensive and bureaucratic regulation of the care home sector”—[Official Report, 7 January 2004; Vol. 416, c. 324.]
That statement is reminiscent of the neanderthal, neo-Conservative approach adopted by his right hon. Friend the Chancellor in his remarks on deregulating the banking sector.
Paul Burstow
I am going to stay focused on the welfare and interests of the residents of these homes, and we will have those political debates on another occasion.
Health and Social Care Bill (Programme) (No. 2)
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John Healey
I do not normally quote the hon. Gentleman’s party leader, but a few weeks ago, the Deputy Prime Minister said:
“It is very important that MPs, who represent millions of patients up and down the country, have the opportunity to really look at the details that we are proposing…I have always said that it is best to take our time to get it right rather than move too fast and risk getting the details wrong.”
The Prime Minister has stopped listening to the Deputy Prime Minister, and that is exactly the mistake the Government are making with the motion.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that despite the Conservatives saying that they are against cherry-picking, that is exactly what they are doing? They are cherry-picking the elements to be referred to the Bill Committee. Clause 60, for example, which deals with Monitor and the regulation of the NHS, is not included. There are so many inconsistencies in the Bill.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
I am very grateful, Mr Deputy Speaker. I call for the motion to be opposed.
Caring Responsibilities
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Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)
The whole House owes the hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) a great “thank you” for having secured this debate in carers week. As co-chair with Baroness Pitkeathley, who is in the other place, of the all-party group on carers, I am particularly glad to have the opportunity to take part in this debate.
In the US Congress, there is a wonderful device that allows people to read a chunk of their speech into the record. I am beginning to feel that for Westminster Hall debates I should have a standard set of three paragraphs about the budget deficit, which I will put on my website, and that those paragraphs should be read into the record. I say that because I think that it will be very tedious during the course of this Parliament if Labour colleagues simply come to Westminster Hall and say, “Woe is us, the Government are having to make budget reductions”, and I then have to explain, “Well, actually…”
I calculated all the money that the Government give to my district council, county council, the Thames Valley police authority and the health authority in my area. We are spending more in 11 days simply on funding the budget deficit than we are on funding all those services in Oxfordshire. That is just not sustainable. So we all have a collective responsibility to be grown-up about the challenges that the Government have to face on the national finances.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
We have had this type of discussion before about productivity, deficit reduction and so on. However, is it not the case that the Government have made a firm commitment to protect the most vulnerable people in society and is it not right that Labour Members, who have turned out in numbers for this debate today, should hold the Government to account on that commitment? This issue is about choices and the Government are making a choice here that will affect some of the most vulnerable people in society.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter, for the first time in a Westminster Hall debate. I echo the tributes to my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore), whom I congratulate on securing this important debate on the effects of spending reductions on families with caring responsibilities, not least because of the important changes being made in the House of Commons in the Welfare Reform Bill.
I want to confine my remarks to a couple of issues, because of the shortage of time. A survey of more than 2,000 carers was recently carried out for carers week. It shows that 80% of unpaid carers are worried about cuts to services and that about 50% are unsure how they will be able to cope without the vital support that they currently receive. For the record and for anyone who is not involved directly as a carer, it is worth stating that three out of every five people will be an unpaid carer at some point during their lives. To respond to the point made by the hon. Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry), those unpaid carers save the economy a huge sum. It is difficult to quantify it, but it may be more than the total NHS budget—£103 billion each year.
We have done some research in County Durham. I am proud to speak up for the vulnerable, the disabled and for carers. My county alone has 61,000 carers and the estimated moneys saved to the public purse by the very important work that these unpaid carers carry out are £1 billion a year. We should not be dismissive of their needs and requirements. Each carer who works for nothing saves the Government, the taxpayer and the Exchequer the cost of a care worker, which is about £18,000 a year.
My own constituency of Easington is characterised by long-term ill health. As the hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) has mentioned, many carers, particularly in my area, are themselves victims of ill health. That was highlighted by a recent report by Carers UK. The legacy of coal mining and heavy industry has left many thousands of people debilitated in later life by long-term disabilities and in need of care, which is often provided not by the state, but by close family members.
I shall speak briefly about a number of issues. In particular, I want to draw Members’ attention towards, and place on the record, the effects being felt by some of my constituents as a result of the transport costs they now face due to local government cuts, and towards respite care, which has been mentioned. I also want to ask the Minister a couple of questions—I hope that she will answer them—about carer’s allowance and the provisions in the Welfare Reform Bill.
A constituent who came to see me recently is a full-time carer for her husband. She has one day a week of respite care. Her husband attends a day-care centre in Grampian House, in Peterlee in my constituency, once a week for four and a half hours. That is the only break she has. It is an excellent facility and I pay tribute to its care staff. I have visited it myself and a close relative of mine is in there. They do tremendous work in terms of physiotherapy and rehabilitation. However, from September, due to the front-loading of cuts of £67 million this year to my local authority of Durham county council, transport to the centre will be cut. It will cost my constituent £72 for specialist transport, which means that she will not be able to take her break and take advantage of the respite care.
The issue of transport has been raised by many of my constituents. They understand that cuts to social care by local authorities are due almost entirely to the swingeing, front-loaded cuts that the Government have imposed. Councils are struggling to cope with massive funding reductions from central Government.
People are also aware of the impact that the Government’s £18 billion package of cuts to the benefits system will have on carers in particular. The Government accuse Labour of rejecting welfare reform, but I am proud to say that we stand firm on the principle that the most vulnerable should not be paying that £18 billion when some of the richest in society—most notably, the bankers and the banking sector—contribute only between £2 billion and £5 billion to the cost of the deficit.
I shall conclude my remarks, because time is short. Another big issue that has been raised is that of ring-fencing moneys for social services, with a distinctive sum identified for carers’ services—the carer’s grant. Although it was not ring-fenced under the previous Government, councils at least knew how much money they were receiving for that purpose. The Minister has responsibility for public health and I would like to congratulate my own soon-to-disappear primary care trust, County Durham PCT, on clearly ring-fencing, identifying and spending its allocation from the Department of Health on the provision of respite care for people with disabilities and their carers.
How will the Government fulfil their pledges to improve the support for carers in the face of massive cuts to local government? How will the Government ensure that the proposed reforms, outlined in the Welfare Reform Bill, do not result in carers losing their carer’s allowance? The Government could give two promises that would give confidence to those who are most vulnerable and most in need. First, budget cuts should not result in carers losing the services that they rely on. Secondly, carers should not lose out under changes to the benefits system.
