Online Sale of Goods (Safety) Bill

Dean Russell Excerpts

Friday 20th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)]

The hon. Member mentioned button batteries. My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Jo Gideon) has been running a fantastic campaign to ban them altogether or at least to make them safer. Will he reflect on that more broadly? It is not just about selling them online. A child of one of my constituents swallowed one of those small batteries; thankfully, they survived, but it could have been much worse. Will he support that campaign?

[Ian Mearns]

I could not agree more. That is just one unsafe element of electrical goods bought online, but I accept the hon. Gentleman’s point.

Investigations by Electrical Safety First and others have, time and again, found unsafe products listed on online marketplaces by third-party sellers. In one investigation, Electrical Safety First found unsafe devices on online marketplaces that claimed to save consumers energy. Not only were those devices ineffective in saving energy, but they were unsafe. In other investigations, it found 60 unsafe e-bike and e-scooter chargers listed on online marketplaces, and white goods that had been recalled for safety concerns listed for sale on online marketplaces. I apologise if I sound repetitive, but I hope that shows the urgent need for the Bill.

The solution that the Bill provides would be welcomed by consumers, experts in the field and the reputable part of the industry, particularly high street retailers. Another survey commissioned by Electrical Safety First found that 85% of consumers want the United Kingdom Government to ensure that online marketplaces are bound by the same regulations as high street retailers. The Law Commission noted that current legislation is “unclear” and that it provides consumers with “very limited rights” on online marketplaces. The National Audit Office has found that there are gaps in the powers to regulate online marketplaces. The House of Commons Public Accounts Committee found similar results: it stated that online marketplaces were

“a significant source of potential product safety harm.”

It is now time to truly level up and ensure that consumers are safe, regardless of whether they are shopping in online marketplaces or high street shops. If the Bill does not progress through the private Member’s Bill process, I urge the Minister to take those justified concerns on board and to bring forward measures to rectify the hole in consumer safety regulation. I strongly commend the Bill to the House.

Employment (Allocation of Tips) Bill

Dean Russell Excerpts

3rd reading
Friday 20th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)]

I stand here today as a very happy man, but not without a certain trepidation, as I know the fragility of the private Members’ Bills process—even at this stage.

I begin by thanking the current Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake), and those who came before me in my short period in the role, for making sure that the Bill is in front of us today and has Government support. I particularly thank my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie) for her work. To reuse a phrase slightly incorrectly—but I think it is true in this case—she took the Bill by the horns and made sure that we took it forward in such a way that it got here today. The truth is that, when I was made a Minister and was looking for somebody to take over this private Member’s Bill, I could not think of a better person in the UK, or potentially the world, to get behind it. I know how important hospitality is to her constituents and constituency. The power that she has used to get the Bill to this stage is incredible. As well as being an ambassador for the Bill, she has championed it to an extent that many would not have been able to achieve.

I will speak briefly about the purpose of the Bill and how it came about, because we need to recognise its importance. For many years, many of us have given tips in restaurants and similar, and as we hand over the money, put money in the tip jar or pay on a credit card machine, we often end the conversation by asking: “Are you sure you’re going to get this? Will you and your team get this tip? That has become part of the national conversation whenever giving a tip. There is a lack of surety about whether the tip will reach the people who have been serving or cooking. This Bill will help put an end to that question. We will no longer need to ask it, and members of staff will no longer need to worry whether they will receive the tip.

The birth of this Bill was mentioned in the excellent previous speech. The measure is not something that I came up with; it has been gestating in government and society for many years. Last May, Quentin Letts wrote a typically humorous and well-written piece about how snollygosters in the machine often slow down good Government policy and stop really positive Bills going through, whereas other laws, including those to raise taxes—that is not a dig at anyone—go through much more quickly. This Bill has been in the system for many years. As a result of the private Members’ Bills process, the work of Government and standing on the shoulders of giants, we are showing that when the right thing needs to be done, it does get done eventually.

The Bill’s power lies in the fact that it provides surety. It will result in 100% of the tip going to the workers. The next issue is how it is then divided. After this Bill is enacted and the code of practice becomes law and the tribunal process is introduced, work will be undertaken to provide organisations with a bunch of scenarios that they can refer to in order to ensure that the tips are shared fairly. The word “fairness” is at the heart of the 100%. This is about fairness. This is about the money going to the right people—the people we have given it to—and it is about them knowing that they are getting it and that there is no room for manoeuvre. It is as simple as that—100%—and fairness is absolutely key.

This is not about topping up salaries. The Bill is very clear—this was part of the work in the early stages with the fantastic civil servants—that this is not about saying that organisations can suddenly reduce the minimum wage and use tips to top up people’s salaries. A tip is a gratuity; it is a thank you, an addition. This is not about giving organisations the opportunity to treat is as part of a salary. I totally appreciate that, for many who go into the hospitality sector, the tip is part of what they see as income, but it should never be used to replace a salary or to top it up. It should be a thank you, an addition and a bonus to help those who work in the sector.

I am passionate about this private Member’s Bill, although it was my second attempt at promoting it. In Watford we have some fantastic hospitality organisations. We have new businesses such as The Beech House, along with older establishments such as Tarboush, L’Artista, the Essex Arms, Rhubarb Cafe and many others that I could list, but they all have a common thread. They all rely on people to come and work in those places—to work in hospitality, to wait on tables and to cook—and they also rely on customers knowing that they are going to have a fantastic experience and be grateful enough to want to give a tip at the end.

What I found during the pandemic was fascinating. We noticed that none of the places we went to, in my role as an MP and as someone who lives in Watford, was taking cash; or rather, most places were not. Increasingly, payment was by credit card. Again, the question was: what does that 12.5% service charge actually mean? Does it go to staff, or is it just for businesses to make a bit more money? In most places, most people we spoke to could not really give an answer. What is it actually for? Do we then give a tip on top of the credit card charge, or not? This Bill will make it absolutely clear. If it is a service charge, tip or gratuity, it will go to the staff.

I have heard people ask whether this change will create an extra burden for businesses—the word “burden” has been used a lot this week in debates on legislation affecting business. Actually, it will not be a burden for businesses. Most businesses do the right thing. Most businesses give the tips to their staff, and that is absolutely part of what they do, because many people in hospitality grew up working in the industry, will have had tips in the past and will therefore know how important it is for their staff to keep them. But there are a few businesses—including, sadly, from reports I have read, some large franchises—that do not make sure that their staff get those tips.

The vast majority of good businesses that pass on tips see this as a positive, not an extra burden, because they see that it creates a level playing field. Those businesses will know that other organisations cannot make extra profit out of the back pockets or wallets of the people who work for them. Not only is that utterly wrong, but it changes and games the system towards those engaged in bad practice versus those who do the right thing. Again, that is another important aspect of fairness in this Bill.

I will not talk for too long, even though I would love to talk for hours. There have been many ups and downs—at times I have felt my heart beating and thought, “Are we going to get this through? Is it going to actually happen?” I want to speak for as short a time as possible, to make sure we can hopefully pass the Bill on to the Lords, but I would like finally to make a point about workers’ rights. At the heart of this is workers’ rights and the young people in society, many of whom work in hospitality. But it is also about this place coming together. I always think that Friday debates are perhaps the most powerful, because we are all usually in some form of agreement, and the point-scoring party politics stays out of it. We have seen that with this Bill. As it has passed through this place, we have seen Members coming together, many of whom worked in hospitality when they were younger, have had experience of it, or have businesses in their own patch whose staff receive tips and gratuities.

If we can get the Bill through today—I urge all colleagues and the other place to please support it—it will make a difference to so many people. Not only will it make a difference to the million that have been quoted, to their friends and families, to the industry in its efforts to get more people to want to work or stay in it, and to businesses by ensuring that they are working on a level playing field; it will also show that, while it does sometimes take time to get legislation through this place, while it does sometimes get utterly frustrating and while, as Quentin Letts pointed out, it does sometimes look like the snollygosters might be winning, eventually one does get to the right place.

If we can get this through today, I will be really pleased, but so will society. I say thank you to the Ministers, thank you to the fantastic civil servants and a huge thank you to my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn for the work that she has done.

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[David Johnston]

I am even more grateful to my hon. Friend for asking that question. I am probably not quite as generous as they are in the US, where a 25% or 30% tip is now sometimes recommended on the bill. I would always err on the side of giving a good tip, even for average service, and an even better tip for exceptional service.

[Dean Russell]

I have been asked, as I am sure my hon. Friend has, whether the Bill will move us towards the US model of tipping. As I said earlier, it is important to note that this is not about making tips part of the salary. We want workers to have good salaries, and the minimum wage has been increased again. Tips are a top-up. They are an additional gratuity to say “thank you,” rather than being part of the salary. That has come up a few times.

[David Johnston]

My hon. Friend makes a couple of important points. On his first point about the US, it was a particularly bad practice when employers were using tips to try to meet the minimum wage. We have made great strides in increasing the national living wage in recent years. I think it has now hit £10.40; the Minister can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe it is at least £10. That is particularly important. If we went into a restaurant and bought a pizza for £10, and the member of staff said when we paid, “I’m going to take £2 of that £10 for the pizza and keep it for myself,” there would be outrage. There would be outrage about the reverse situation, and it is right that we should feel offended on behalf of staff who are working hard for these tips and not getting them.

My hon. Friend the Member for Cheadle (Mary Robinson) is right: this is not just about hospitality. She made an important point about nail bars, hairdressers and lots of other places that I have many of in my constituency, but I realise that this is, in large part, about hospitality. My constituency has a lot of hospitality venues—pubs, for example. There are only seven MPs who have more pubs in their constituency than I do. I have been trying to get around them all, and I am doing pretty well.

The hospitality industry is vital for the UK economy, and particularly for younger workers, ethnic minority workers and part-time workers. It is a very accessible industry for people to get their foot on the ladder and get some important skills. It is hard work, often involving someone being on their feet all day, in difficult conditions, and dealing with difficult customers. It might involve long hours. It is vital, and it is hard. People get good skills, and they should get all their tips.

It is a small minority of employers who are doing this. Most employers will feel, as we do, that staff should be given the tips for the work they have done. That small minority of employers are shooting themselves in the foot in many ways, because where an employee has a choice between different employers—of course, they do not always—the chances are that they will pick the one that will let them keep their tips. That is a perfectly logical decision to make, and it is probably the decision I would make. As we discussed earlier, just as the customer expects a tip to go to the staff, the staff think, “That wage may not be very high, but I’ll be able to earn more in tips.”

This debate reminds me of two other things that are relevant to the passage of this legislation. The first is unpaid internships. The hope with this Bill was that employers would not wait for it to take effect but would start to change their practices before the statutory code came into effect, because the attention on this issue would make those practices socially unacceptable. I hope that that has happened. This reminds me of unpaid internships, which have unfortunately been rife in the UK. They have also been rife in this place, by the way. One reason why we were slow at first to make progress on getting rid of unpaid internships was that the two groups we often need for campaigns use them a lot: politicians and the media. Both are usually very important for campaigns on issues, and both were using a lot of unpaid internships.

When we look across our professions—media, fashion and many others—we find people working for no money. Their employers would say that they were providing a great opportunity, because people in those positions were getting skills that they would need later in the workplace, but the fact is that someone needs a number of things to let them do an unpaid internship. As internships are concentrated in London, interns usually need to move there and will need accommodation. While they are doing work for their employer, they will need money from somewhere, so they will either be working two jobs—one paid for and one not—or, as has often happened, be from the wealthiest families, who can support their children by supplementing those internships. Those internships then lead to jobs, and those jobs look unrepresentative of the country of a whole because of who gets into them.

Again, it is a small proportion of employers doing those things, but as we have shone a light on the issue with the Bill, making it clear that it is not acceptable for employers to be taking their staff’s tips, we would hope that employers have already started to change their practices. None the less, the Bill is important, and I am glad that it is being brought in.

The second issue that I am reminded of is access to cash, which, as Members have touched on, is currently a big challenge. We have banks closing branches all over the country, we have cashpoints disappearing, and we have an assumption that everybody wants to do everything by card or online. I get quite a number of constituents writing to me—I am sure that we all do—who are really concerned about that. They really like to be able to use cash, they worry that it will disappear and they do not know what they will do about it.

That is relevant to the Bill because we have heard the odd voice in the hospitality industry saying that the Bill is not a good thing because there are cost pressures on the hospitality industry at the moment and that, when people pay on card, the business incurs fees for those transactions, so it is not right to let all of the money go to the staff. Their basic argument is, “They might tip on card. I am paying money for that charge, and you’re saying that I have to give the entire thing to the staff.” I am hugely sympathetic to the hospitality industry in lots of ways, but I am afraid that I am not sympathetic to that particular point. However, it does relate to access to cash.

By the way, we could all do a better job of carrying cash. There is a national issue of how we ensure that people who need cash always have access to it. However, on the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Watford (Dean Russell) about whether I need to have cash to ensure that somebody will get their tip, the answer, as a result of the Bill, is no, but, none the less, they might appreciate it.

I am afraid that I really do not agree with places that have become card-only. I accept that it may be simpler for some people to pay by card—particularly younger generations, although I do not want to make an age-related comment because I know of plenty of people in their 70s and 80s who like using contactless—but we could all do a better job of carrying cash so that tips could be paid and received in it.

One way or the other, this is a hugely important Bill. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie) as well as my hon. Friend the Member for Watford on the work that he did before on the Bill. Although we are talking about a small minority, we are doing an important thing to ensure that people are rewarded for the effort that they put in.

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[Paul Howell (Sedgefield) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie) for tabling the Bill, and my hon. Friend the Member for Watford (Dean Russell) for all the tremendous work that was done beforehand. As has been said several times already, this is such an important issue, and it is delightful that my hon. Friend the Member for Watford has been able to put in the time and commitment to get the Bill to the stage it is now at—I hope his heart can stop fluttering soon. Of course, it is always a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby).

I said in relation to the previous Bill that I did not have much experience, but I have a little bit more experience of this one. My constituency of Sedgefield is 240 square miles, and contains a significant number of pubs, restaurants and hotels. I do not, unfortunately, have a great deal of awareness—apart from the odd visit—of nail bars or what the quality of service is there; I have had some engagement with the teams, maybe, but that is about as far as I have taken it.

It is fair to say that anyone paying a service charge, or giving a tip, as we would normally call it, expects it to go to the staff, but it is important in this discussion to understand who the staff are. In a multinational hotel chain, the owners are clearly distant, but in a lot of pubs and small restaurants the staff may be the owners. There is some differentiation, in that there could be one person in the family who owns it, and maybe he or she should not be getting the tips, but the other could be working behind the bar or serving the food, and clearly the distribution model—however we make it up—must be fair to them as well.

Certainly, a number of pubs either start as or evolve into quasi-restaurants because the owner is the chef. They have put the effort into the kitchen and they are providing the service of food. When we look at what generates a tip, particularly in a food environment, there are two clear dimensions: the quality of the food and the person-to-person service and delivery. It is important that all of that is considered.

[Dean Russell]

One key component of the Bill, assuming that we get it through today and the Lords agree with us, will be the code of practice, which will effectively set out a 12-week consultation—I believe it is 12 weeks, unless things have changed—with the hospitality industry and more broadly to ensure that there are scenarios that are practicable and work in reality for organisations and staff. Those scenarios can be referred to in tribunals, should things get to that point, but, hopefully, they will give many approaches for businesses, even before the Bill becomes law, to say, “This is the right way to do it.” The Bill does not try to offer a one-size-fits-all model; it is about making sure it works, but at its heart is fairness. If the tip is for the people who have served and cooked wonderful food, then fairness within that organisation means ensuring that that tip is shared fairly across them all, and they can refer to the code of practice as part of that.

[Paul Howell]

I thank my hon. Friend for his very valuable clarification of the direction of travel we hope the Bill will proceed in.

The point was made earlier that the Bill is about making sure people are fairly paid. We have seen in the past people trying to incorporate the tips as part of the justification for a minimum wage. That is wholly inappropriate and I think that is one of the drivers for this Bill, which reinforces the position that people can ensure they get the appropriate pay on their payslip for their work, with tips being a separate scenario that can be discussed and followed through.

We must factor in a number of considerations about where organisations have got to. I do not think many sectors of our economy have been harder hit than hospitality over the last few years, first by covid and then by subsequent problems with labour. That puts pressures on business, and unfortunately some businesses take a step to the side of where their morals should be. This Bill will help to give clarity to that space, so it is absolutely clear that the tips belong on one side of the equation and we do not have a situation, as was mentioned earlier, where businesses are competing with each other, but one is taking the tips and putting it into the profit pot—or the cost-covering pot—and the other is doing the right thing and passing those moneys on to where they belong.

To come back to the point about cash-only or contactless-only methods of payment, another benefit of the Bill is that it provides clarity. The method of payment should not influence whether somebody gets a tip. We have all been to organisations—not in my constituency, as my hon. Friend the Member for Wantage (David Johnston) said; it must have been when I was travelling—that say “card payment only” or “cash payment only”. When a customer walks into an organisation where that direction is given, it makes them think that there is an ulterior motive. Does the organisation want cash so that it does not always go through the books? Does the organisation want contactless so that it has control over all the tips? Those are the two extremes, and both thought processes are probably unfounded in most organisations, but it puts doubt into the customer’s mind as to an organisation’s motives. The Bill will hopefully take that uncertainty away from the customer, so they know that the right thing is being done and the whole tips agenda has no impact.

Many typically small organisations are affected by this issue, so the aggregate number of people involved is incredible; I understand that up to 1 million people could benefit from it and the stats imply that they could get about £200 a year each. That is a significant amount but as my hon. Friend said, I like to think that I tip people reasonably, so I would have thought that they would get significantly more than £200 in the year. There could easily be a significant benefit for the people who are providing excellent services in our organisations, so I commend the progress of the Bill.

My hon. Friend also said that he had tried to go to as many pubs and other places in his constituency as he could, as I do. I hope the House will excuse a slight digression on this, but sometimes that has unintended consequences. I do not think that I am a particularly heavy drinker, but when I go out, I have a couple of beers from time to time. Hon. Members may have seen the “Love Your Liver” campaign in the House earlier this week. I called in and I am now going to my GP, because apparently I need to be checked out. When people go out, they should be aware of the impact on their health, because they would not necessarily know—I do not think there is anything wrong with me, but a scan tells me that there could be, so I need to check it out. I apologise for the digression, but it seemed appropriate to put a shout out for the health agenda.

I appreciate the Bill’s intention, because it is about fairness and it takes away the need for concern and gives employees the legal right to go back and check, if necessary. I endorse the earlier point about the potential for publicising it to make sure that staff and employers are aware that there is a now a line in the sand that has a legal footprint behind it, and it is not just best practice. Of course, best practice attracts the best staff who will attract customers.

Anybody who has worked in any organisation—any manufacturing, trading or sales business—knows one thing above all else: the easiest customers are the repeat customers. If a business can repeat its customers, it will be more successful and sustainable. Why do customers come back? As I said, it is because of the quality of the product, typically food or drink in this context, and the quality of the service. If businesses look after their staff, pay them correctly and allow them to keep the tips that they have earned, they will have a more successful business. I commend the Bill to the House.

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[James Grundy]

I thank my hon. Friend for clarifying that. I am afraid that I have never been to America, but I hope to have the opportunity to go.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Watford said, there is a difference between a tip and a service charge. It is important to consider them slightly differently. The main reason is that a tip is often voluntary, and if we feel that we have received bad service, we will simply not leave one. A tip is given to the individual who served us for their particular service—a token of thanks to them individually—whereas a service charge is, or should be, as my hon. Friend said, disbursed to the staff as a whole. Sometimes a service charge is not voluntary but appears on the bill, so it is not a personal choice. A distinction should be made on that.

Let me talk briefly about something that we have not mentioned. My hon. Friend the Member for Watford has said that further work will be done, so I hope that this will be given some consideration: any potential taxation of tips should be different from taxation of service charges. Tips are effectively gifts, which are taxed differently, so they should be considered in a slightly different manner from service charges. I realise that that is a slightly esoteric point—perhaps so esoteric that it may not have been considered in this debate or during the drafting of the provisions.

[Dean Russell]

Taxation is wholly separate from this Bill. The Bill is very much about BEIS. To give my hon. Friend some reassurance, what the Bill will not do is change anything on taxation.

[James Grundy]

I thank my hon. Friend for his clarification. I have covered most of the points I wish to cover. We have heard a number of very sensible and reasonable contributions. This Bill has overwhelming cross-Bench support. It is long overdue, but it is terribly sad that we have to legislate to deal with this problem. It is pretty cheap for businesses to try to take tips for themselves. It is my view that they are always meant for the staff, as a token of thanks to people for service above and beyond what should be expected.

Neonatal Care (Leave and Pay) Bill

Dean Russell Excerpts

3rd reading
Friday 20th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)]

May I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones) for the emotional and personal tales she just told? It is so important to share those, and telling them in this Chamber must take a lot of courage, so I welcome her doing that, because I am sure that many people at home who are watching this will have gone through similar experiences. May I also pay tribute to the hon. Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East (Stuart C. McDonald)—I hope I said that correctly this time—for introducing this Bill? Private Members’ Bills do not always get through to this stage and it is easy for them to fall much earlier.

I know from hearing testimonies in the previous debates and in the Committee, and from speaking to members of the public, including constituents of mine, people’s personal take on this Bill, which brings to life how having children is one of the most—if not the most—precious thing that those of us who are fortunate to have had children can do. My family were fortunate in not needing to go through neonatal care, but I do remember that, when my daughter was born at Watford General Hospital, emotions ran high; there was a fear for this precious, fragile, wonderful person that we had brought into our lives. There is this fear that something could go wrong, so to have to go through the distress of something actually going wrong must be so challenging and difficult to deal with. That is why the Bill is so important.

According to the Office for National Statistics, as I understand it, there are 624,828 births in England and Wales every year, and 13,500 in Hertfordshire, but every year more than 90,000 babies are cared for in neonatal units in the UK due to premature birth, or sickness among full-term births. That is a huge number. It affects not just those children, but their parents, their families and all those who need wrap-around care. It is difficult to think that a parent could not spend time with their child in those precious few days, in that first couple of weeks, but it is not just for their child; it is for their loved ones—their spouse—as well. People want to make sure that they can put first not work but the thing that they probably go to work for.

I appreciate that colleagues will quite rightly challenge and scrutinise the impact on business and organisations. There are burdens—if we can call them that—that are placed on business, but, actually, the burden of having a member of staff or member of a team who is desperately worried about their newborn child while being at work cannot be very productive and it cannot be helpful for them doing their job. I would say that it is not a burden to enable the Bill to pass and to follow these rules; it is something that will help businesses. It will help to build morale, build a team, and make sure that people are being productive. That is why the Bill is so important. We hope that businesses and society will do the right thing, and often that is the case—the tips Bill that we will discuss later this morning is a good example of that—but they do not always do the right thing. This law will make sure that support is there for the families as well as for the babies. It will also ensure that businesses know that, as family life is at the heart of this country, workers have a right to take time off to look after their family member and their child.

When researching the subject of this debate, I looked up some statistics and found that the number of families and parents impacted is quite high. Two in five parents of hospitalised babies—40%—have anxiety or post-traumatic stress. Levels decline over time, but, a year after birth, one in four is still suffering. That is higher than generally seen in new parents. The truth is that this goes to the heart of mental health as well. Next week—to give a small plug—I shall be introducing a ten-minute rule Bill on mental health first aid in the workplace, and all Members are welcome to join in on that.

People are far more aware today than they have ever been of the importance of mental health and mental wellbeing in the workplace. Two in five parents of hospitalised babies suffer anxiety or post-traumatic stress, which is a huge number. The fact is that that can trigger depression and long-term impacts, so those first couple of weeks—or even first few days—of being able to be there for our loved ones and for our child will reduce the risk of long-term impacts, such as anxiety and depression. That can also have an impact on people’s relationships. Those to whom I have spoken, who have been supportive of the Bill, all say that we are not talking about an isolated two or three weeks and then it is over and suddenly life gets back to normal. It does not. When people have a young child, the worries and anxieties about what that will bring in future are incredibly strong and can linger for years. They can damage relationships and they can harm other children in the family.

One other point to make is that, as I understand it, the average length of stay in neonatal care in England and Wales is seven days, so this Bill will do a huge amount to ensure that in that first week or two, parents can be supported and do not have to worry that they will damage their career opportunities. They will not have to worry about having to go cap in hand to their bosses to ask for what is really a family right in this country.

I will not speak for too long, but I want to say a huge thank you to hon. Members across the House for supporting this Bill. It is an important way to show that this country is one that cares about family and about children, and that builds a better society and a better community. Thank you for indulging me by allowing me to speak today, Mr Speaker; I wholeheartedly support the Bill.

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[Simon Baynes (Clwyd South) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the eloquent and moving speeches of my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie) and other Members across the House. This is an important Bill.

I pay tribute to the special care baby unit at Wrexham Maelor Hospital, which is in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Sarah Atherton) but is frequented by many of my Clwyd South constituents. The maternity unit there was under some degree of threat about seven years ago, and I campaigned alongside many others for its retention. Using information provided by the special care baby unit, I will mention a little about what it does, because one aspect that we should include in this debate—I will come to parents and families in a minute—is the fantastic dedication, skill and care of all those in the health service who look after babies, and their families, in neonatal care.

The unit at Wrexham Maelor Hospital has 12 cots: one stabilisation or short-term intensive care cot, two high-dependency cots, and nine lower-dependency cots. The babies are cared for by a team of medical staff, led by a paediatric consultant, and a team of specially trained nursing staff, supported by healthcare support workers, neonatal outreach, speech and language therapists, physiotherapists, and many other professionals who work in the team. A Bliss volunteer also attends the unit every Wednesday from 10 am to 12 pm to provide emotional support. I say that not only to pay tribute to the hospital that serves my constituency so well, but to highlight the sheer skill of the people there and the wide range of complex processes that are required to ensure that babies are properly cared for in neonatal units.

As has been mentioned, one in seven babies born in the UK receives some level of neonatal care shortly after birth. Many people who have not had the experience of a baby in neonatal care—such as my wife and I, because our children did not go to neonatal care—would be surprised by that high number of babies, which further commends the Bill that the hon. Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East (Stuart C. McDonald) has brought forward. I commend him for persevering with it, because it is to everyone’s benefit. As has also been mentioned, about 50,000 babies in the UK spend more than one week in neonatal care after birth every year. For many families, the inflexibility of current parental leave laws exacerbates those issues and adds to the stress for the whole family.

When the Government launched a consultation in October 2019, it found overwhelming—almost unanimous —support for what the Bill proposes. Some 99% of respondents agreed that parents of babies who are admitted into neonatal care should have access to additional weeks of leave and pay; 93% supported the proposal for a right to neonatal leave from the first day of employment in a role; and 81% felt that the maximum number of weeks for neonatal leave should be the same as the maximum number of weeks for statutory neonatal pay. As I said, I commend the hon. Member for bringing forward the Bill and I am delighted that it has unanimous, cross-party support. Under the terms of the Bill, families will be entitled to paid leave if they meet the minimum service and earning requirements, and leave and pay will last for a maximum of 12 weeks on top of their other parental entitlements.

It is estimated—this important point has not been drawn out in the debate so far—that the annual cost to the Exchequer of neonatal care leave, if paid at the statutory flat rate, would be £14.2 million a year on average, alongside the one-off cost of £5 million required to update His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs’ systems. To be honest, that is not a large amount of money compared with the figures of billions of pounds that we hear mentioned in the House, and given that one in seven babies receives some level of neonatal care, it addresses a vital issue.

[Dean Russell]

As mentioned earlier, it is also important to look at the long-term anxiety and depression among parents from what could happen—ultimately, there is trauma in those first few weeks. When we look at the statistics, we see that many more people are taking sick leave for mental health and wellbeing reasons, which ultimately means a loss of income and damage to the individual, as well as a loss to the Treasury. I wholeheartedly agree that there is an economic argument and a very personal, long-term one.

[Simon Baynes]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention, and fully subscribe to his points. If it is not indelicate to say so, I felt that the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn about how traumatic it is for her to recall the experience, even now, make the point about the mental health issues that lie at the heart of this matter better than anybody could.

With regards to the Wrexham Maelor baby care unit, I mentioned Bliss, which we have already discussed this morning. It is a key charity that supports parents with sick and premature babies, and I commend that charity on having campaigned since 2014 to extend leave and pay for parents of babies in neonatal care. In 2019, Bliss conducted a survey that found that two thirds of fathers of premature babies had to return to work while their baby was still receiving neonatal care, and in 2018 that charity ran a campaign encouraging people to call their MPs

“to put pressure on the Government to extend leave for parents of babies in specialist care.”

Bliss noted that over 90% of MPs were reached through that campaign.

There have been many other very articulate and eloquent submissions, including from Catriona Ogilvy, founder of The Smallest Things charity; Sophie, a midwife from Tommy’s, the largest pregnancy charity in the UK; Jane van Zyl, chief executive of Working Families; and Caroline Lee-Davey, chief executive of Bliss. They have all pointed out that this is a vital issue, as has been said already this morning, and I am so pleased that we can come together in the House today to send the Bill further on its way.

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Dean Russell Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 18th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Alyn Smith]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. The UK constitutional arrangements in London, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland were all predicated upon the maintenance of the single market, the customs union and the EU; that was the balance of devolved competences that was struck. All this was upended by Brexit and the actions of the UK Government since. So there is deep consequence for the devolved settlements in all the home nations, and indeed the Brexit process, from this Bill.

If we are serious about protecting devolution—frankly, in light of yesterday’s decision, I do not accept that the UK Government are—we have put forward, as have others, ways to do so. But I do not think the Bill is fit for purpose. I disagree with its purpose; I think it was borne of spite and hubris rather than any pragmatic, rational process. I think it will cause problems for the UK Government—I say that with no pleasure—and in so doing will undermine the devolution settlement and cause grave disquiet to millions of our businesses and citizens.

I say to the Government that if they are going to do this damned silly thing, do not do it in this damned silly way.

[Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)]

I rise to speak primarily about new clause 1, but I will touch on other amendments.

This Bill delivers on the promise of Brexit, but also the practicalities of what that means for this country. The truth is that when people voted for Brexit across the country in large majority, especially at the last election, they wanted—to use a phrase that has been referred to a lot today—to take back control. There is no greater taking back control than having politicians and MPs in this place, and the Government that the people have elected, being able to decide our laws and make sure they are being implemented.

There has been a lot of talk about the idea that this is somehow a burden and a bonfire of rights. Actually, what we have seen in the Conservative party and the Government—I saw it myself last year—is an absolute passion to ensure that workers’ rights are at the heart of what we do. In my own work as a Back-Bench MP in the last year, I brought in a private Member’s Bill so that workers could keep their tips, which my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie) is taking through its stages. On workers’ rights, we have backed private Members’ Bills on extending maternity rights and carer’s leave. We are doing that in lots of ways not because we are being forced to or because the EU has told us to but because we believe that that is the right thing to do. I fully back that.

The truth is that the Bill is about ensuring that, when voters elect us to this place, we have the ability to make changes. At the next election, they can choose to keep us or get rid of us, but, by kicking the issue down the road, which is in effect what some of the amendments are about, that will never happen. We need a deadline that is purposeful and delivers on what people voted for at the last election. We need to ensure that we are delivering in a timely fashion.

There is the idea that somehow we are putting too much work on to civil servants, that it will be too hard and that it is too much effort. Actually, we are voted in to be here to deliver and to ensure that our civil servants are delivering on the promises that we made to the British public. I have to say that civil servants do an amazing job; my experience with them has been fantastic.

I have heard lots of misinformation and, sadly, in some cases, disinformation in the media and in emails about what the Bill will do. It is not about reducing rights or reducing environmental measures. It is actually about looking at what laws are in place and being delivered in this country for the British people.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

The hon. Member and I have worked collaboratively on a number of things, including the Online Safety Bill. Given the vast swathe of legislation that has still yet to be determined, what is concerning is that there are difficulties around trust. I think in particular about the rights of workers built up over a number of years, environmental standards, and even several aspects of online safety. If, for such significant changes in existing provision, that legislation could be brought back to the House so that we could see it, that would restore confidence.

[Dean Russell]

I enjoyed working with the hon. Lady on the Online Safety Bill, which made huge progress yesterday and is now going to the Lords. The key point here is that there are many laws—and many pieces of what I would consider to be red tape—on the statute book, some of which even those who wanted us to stay in the EU do not know exist. We need to go through a process to identify that. The Bill is about amending, repealing or replacing that legislation. One part of that is about ensuring that case law that currently refers to pieces of EU case law and others refers to UK pieces. There is legislation that will become rapidly out of date because it refers to old EU legislation, priorities and policies. That cannot be right. We need to ensure that our legislation is fit for purpose and up to date.

[Sir William Cash]

On a small point that was just raised, may I mention that the Online Safety Bill is not retained EU law? There is a law in the European Union, but our Bill does not relate to that.

[Dean Russell]

I agree with my hon. Friend.

I am conscious of time. The bit that I really want to touch on is this legislation’s role with regard to growth and small businesses. In the different world that we live in nowadays, it is essential that our small businesses—I believe that they are about 99% of all our businesses—can be nimble. We used to talk about having a shop on every corner, and we now have businesses that can be in every corner of the world. We need to ensure that they can grow and that they are not burdened with spending most of their time doing admin and back-office stuff to fulfil legislation that is out of date and unnecessary. We need to know what that legislation is.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

While most of the United Kingdom will benefit from the Bill, and my party will support the Government when it comes to the votes, Northern Ireland is being left behind due to the protocol, which the hon. Member for Stone (Sir William Cash) referred to. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that while we do these things tonight, we must ensure that the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill goes through so that the people of Northern Ireland have the same rights as the rest of us in United Kingdom?

[Dean Russell]

I thank the hon. Member—my friend—for his comments. Absolutely, we need to get that sorted, because it is essential that we move forward in the right way.

My point on small businesses is that, at the moment, they need staff to do extra things to deal with Government—admin, processes and all those different things—and if we relieved that stress and enabled them to be more nimble, they could spend more of their time selling and doing rather than filling out paperwork. That has got to be a good thing. When we look at this legislation, we must ensure that everything is fit for purpose, that there is a purpose to it and that we are being purposeful in implementing it.

There are thousands of laws on the statue book that are not essential or necessary. They are just there, and many hon. Members probably do not realise that they exist. That cannot be good for this country. It cannot be good for growth and it cannot be good in particular for small businesses and those who run those small businesses.

There is lots more that I would like to talk about, but I will finish. I absolutely support the Bill and look forward to seeing it go to the Lords. I hope that Opposition Members will see the benefits that it will bring to this country and that, when they talk about taking back control, they realise that this is at the heart of that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

I would be giving away my age if I said I do remember it well. Fortunately, not all of that has come to pass, but I worry that my age is out there. I must thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West for his fantastic work in Committee. He very sensibly talked about how we have absorbed EU legislation. Some of it is obsolete, and some being discovered by the National Archives is also obsolete. It is absolutely right that we have an exercise to identify and assess what is fit for our country.

[Dean Russell]

One of the key things here is looking at red tape that is unnecessary for small businesses. I am a great believer that businesses should focus on transforming their business and not just filling out forms. Does the Minister agree?

[Ms Ghani]

My hon. Friend, who was a fantastic Minister in the Department and led earlier consideration of the Bill, hits the nail on the head once again. We have an opportunity to look at regulation to see whether there is a way we can streamline it to make it even more easy for business to do business—it is as simple as that.

My right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings gave a fantastic speech, in which he talked about how we have surrendered our parliamentary authority and lawmaking to Brussels, but the people’s will means that we need to ensure that we are delivering laws and regulations here in the UK Parliament. That is what our constituents have empowered us to do. They want to be living under British law, and that is what the Bill delivers.

My hon. Friend the Member for Yeovil talked about this Bill being overdue and, boy, how many years will we spend discussing Brexit? I agree that the Bill is overdue. It is absolutely right that we have precision and certainty and that responsibility is best placed here in UK law, not in European law with European judges.

My hon. Friend the Member for Watford made a splendid speech—he was also splendid at the Dispatch Box when he was leading the Bill—once again standing up for small business, and his assessment is absolutely right: there are many opportunities if we are able to deregulate.

My right hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset once again thanked all the civil servants working on the programme, and I must thank him for all the tremendous work he has done on the Bill. He spoke about having a base and principles within UK law, and how we should not be relying on EU law and how EU law should not be supreme over UK law. There is nothing to fear in having UK law sovereign. We are somehow going to have to pull this plaster off, and this is obviously the time to do it. My right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford talked about her experience of consumer legislation, which I mentioned earlier, and I am more than happy to discuss that with her when the time allows.

Post Office: GLO Compensation Scheme

Dean Russell Excerpts

Wednesday 7th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Grant Shapps]

Again, I do not want to stray too much into the legal process, other than to say that Sir Wyn Williams will report and his inquiry will make a series of recommendations, and I can reveal that we are likely to look very kindly on what he has to say.

We put a number of steps in place after speaking to Alan Bates and those impacted by the group litigation, but we have not, for example, handled this stage of the process through the Post Office. Instead, there is the extra reassurance of an independent panel, which includes the right hon. Member for North Durham and Lord Arbuthnot, to make sure the same errors cannot be repeated.

The key point is about ensuring there is not a large cost. As I mentioned to my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie), there will not be a large cost in this part of the process. We then get into what will happen with prosecutions. I am probably leaping a little too far, but this significant injustice has caused misery to people’s lives, not only those who were wrongly convicted—I said in my opening remarks that some are not here to see this moment of partial justice—but the families who have been ripped apart and will never be brought back together. This damage and harm will last generations, and I very much hope our legal system will take all that into account.

[Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)]

I welcome my right hon. Friend’s commitment today and his statement. He is right to use the word “travesty”, as this was a scandal probably unequalled in government over many decades. I am grateful for his words today and the work he is doing, and I am pleased to hear that Alan Bates is in the Gallery to hear this, given the work he has done.

My question is about what will happen with this long-term commitment on communications. One thing I have heard often during this is that a lack of communication can, of itself, cause additional stress and anxiety. So will my right hon. Friend agree to ensure that there are regular communications from the Government on this, both in the House and outside?

[Grant Shapps]

I pay tribute to and thank my hon. Friend for what he did as Minister responsible in this area to help to bring forward the statement I was able to make today. On his point about communication, that is absolutely our intention, both through myself and through the small business Minister—the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton.

Fertility Treatment (Employment Rights) Bill

Dean Russell Excerpts

Friday 25th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Nickie Aiken]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Only a small percentage of the population is affected by fertility treatment, but it is so important that we support those people through what is quite often a difficult time.

[Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for introducing this Bill on a matter that is so important to so many people. The point that she just made is ultimately about the stresses. Many constituents have told me that going through IVF is emotionally challenging. For many people, knowing that they have the surety of time off work during that period would make a huge difference.

[Nickie Aiken]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, for his support and for the time he gave me to discuss my Bill when he was a Minister at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.

Draft Trade Marks (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Dean Russell Excerpts

Wednesday 26th October 2022 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Dean Russell)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Trade Marks (Amendment) Regulations 2022.

The regulations were laid before the House on 19 July. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Mundell.

Intellectual property has played a vital role in the UK economy. A well-balanced and effective IP system supports our citizens in their creativity and ingenuity. It helps ensure that great ideas can be turned into great businesses. The draft regulations relate to a special type of intellectual property: well-known marks. This is a particular branch of the UK’s trademark system.

A well-known mark is one that is considered reputable, and which the general public commonly knows about; examples are Rolex and Coca-Cola. Trademark law gives special protection to these marks in the light of the recognition that they receive and their reputation, irrespective of whether they are registered in the UK.

The UK protects well-known marks through a combination of trademark legislation and common law. The changes in this statutory instrument are technical amendments to the trademark legislation, namely the Trade Marks Act 1994. The amendments will further clarify the robust protection afforded to well-known marks in UK law.

The main impetus behind the changes is the need to ensure that the UK delivers on its obligations in the EU-UK trade and co-operation agreement. It is important to share some extra context. It was the UK that sought these robust provisions in the TCA. The TCA places a binding commitment on both parties to apply an international standard for well-known marks: the World Intellectual Property Organisation’s joint recommendation on the protection of well-known marks. That set of international standards was adopted in 1999. The UK was a strong proponent of that standard-setting document, and contributed a member to the committee of experts that led on its preparation between 1995 and 1997.

The SI makes two changes to the Trade Marks Act 1994. First, it will give holders of unregistered WKMs the right to prohibit the use of a conflicting trademark on dissimilar goods or services. That measure builds on provisions we already have to stop the use of a conflicting trademark on the same or similar goods or services. To give an example, under the new, amended law, a holder of an unregistered well-known mark, such as the famous Rolls-Royce brand, could rely on well-known mark provisions if its name was unjustly used not only on cars and similar goods, but on sports equipment or even domestic cleaning products. I have not bought a Rolls-Royce bar of soap, but perhaps they exist. The new remedy applies where such use is likely to damage Rolls-Royce’s interests or takes unfair advantage of the distinctive character or repute of the Rolls-Royce mark.

Secondly, the SI will amend a nuance in existing trademark law. Current well-known mark provisions are targeted at nationals of third countries, but exclude those of the UK. Historically, UK-based individuals and businesses have been able to rely on alternative provisions in common law and in the 1994 Act to enforce their rights. For example, where they hold a registered mark, they can seek recourse through the tort of passing off. However, we are taking this opportunity to extend the well-known mark provisions to ensure that the new remedy, and the existing well-known mark provisions in the 1994 Act, include the UK.

The changes will render the UK fully compliant with obligations in the EU-UK TCA. However, the benefits will extend further: they will place the UK in the best position to negotiate protection for the well-known marks of British companies in future trade agreements. I have detailed the benefits that the changes will bring to holders of well-known marks, through the new remedy for unregistered mark holders, and the harmonisation of the well-known mark provisions so that UK nationals can enjoy the same benefits as those provided to third-country nationals.

As for the practical implications of the regulations, the impact on the number of cases taken to the Intellectual Property Office tribunal or the courts is anticipated to be modest. During policy preparation for the instrument, research into tribunal cases before the Intellectual Property Office found that there were approximately 12 similar cases a year dealing with well-known marks, and just a fragment of those would ever be expected to reach the courts. That is primarily due to the specific characterisations of well-known marks, and the niche nature of those IP rights.

We do not mistake the importance of these changes, and I hope colleagues will not either. Even putting important international obligations aside, stakeholders have confirmed that the provisions are a welcome addition to trademark law. With that in mind, the Intellectual Property Office will prepare guidance to ensure that businesses that fall within the scope of these changes can manage any impact or, where appropriate, can make the most of the new remedies.

To conclude, the regulations make changes to a niche area of trademark law, but are an important development for the UK’s trademark system. They will ensure the effective protection of unregistered well-known marks, and that the UK meets its international commitments. I commend the instrument to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dean Russell]

I thank the hon. Lady for her excellent speech and excellent questions. I will do my best to cover as many as I can; I hope to cover most of them, but if I do not, I assure her that I will follow up in writing.

From my experience of working in the digital field and, partly, in branding, I know how much effort, time and money goes into these things. This is also an issue of trust. I believe that the hon. Lady used to work at Ofcom, so she understands the importance of this industry; she has a weight of experience, and that came through in her speech.

As I detailed, a well-known mark is a niche but special form of intellectual property. It is important to highlight that the provisions are not just about safeguarding exclusive or luxury names; they apply to all known well-known marks, including those of everyday services or goods, such as Google or Coca-Cola. The changes are highly technical, but stakeholders confirm that they represent a welcome addition to trademark law.

I will again summarise the benefits that the changes will bring to holders of well-known marks: there will be a new remedy for unregistered mark holders where their mark is being used on dissimilar goods or services, and harmonisation of well-known mark provisions to ensure that UK nationals can access the same benefits as those provided to third-country nationals.

In yesterday’s debate on the regulations in the other place, a question was asked about what exactly a well-known mark is and whether that might change over time. This is not an exact science. We have deliberately resisted enshrining a definition of a well-known mark in legislation, because it has developed over time in case law. The judiciary uses discretion and considers a variety of factors when determining whether a mark is well known. In the High Court decision in Hotel Cipriani SRL v. Cipriani (Grosvenor Street) Ltd, Mr Justice Arnold, as he then was, referenced the six criteria cited in the WIPO joint recommendation, which forms the basis for the test of whether a mark is well known. The criteria include the degree of recognition, the use of the mark, how the mark is promoted or enforced, and the value associated with the mark.

I will now endeavour to respond to the excellent questions raised. One was about compliance, and why the issue was not addressed sooner. The UK already has extensive provisions in place for well-known marks, and they work well. They are provided through a combination of the Trade Marks Act 1994 and common law—in particular, the tort of passing off. The technical amendments in the regulations top up those provisions, so that all possible permutations of conflict between marks are covered, as suggested by the joint recommendation. The need for these changes was not identified until after the TCA; we seek to implement them as soon as possible, once they are approved.

The hon. Lady asked about the 121 cases referred to in the explanatory memorandum. That is the number of cases that have been through the Intellectual Property Office’s tribunal in the past 10 years relating to well-known marks, and that have made use of existing provisions. That equates to approximately 12 cases a year. Of those, approximately four per year involved unregistered marks, and so would fall into the group of cases, involving well-known mark holders, in which use could be made of the new remedy. Based on those numbers, the changes are expected to have a modest impact; we expect approximately one additional court case every 50 years. I will double-check that, but I think it is not bad. We will of course monitor the impact of the change in the usual way.

On whether a detailed impact assessment has been produced on these changes, it is estimated that the impact will fall below the threshold required for full assessment. The statutory instrument will remedy unforeseen compliance issues caused by the ratification of the TCA. As mentioned, the changes are expected to have a modest, practical impact, and a minimal impact on the number of cases brought to court.

Finally, a concern was raised about foreign IP practitioners taking work away from UK attorneys. I reassure the hon. Lady that the IPO has a close working relationship with the Chartered Institute of Trade Mark Attorneys and will consider the issues that it raises, together with the Ministry of Justice, which leads on legal services policies.

I reiterate the hon. Lady’s excellent point about the importance of the creative industries. I echo her point that the creative industries and creators are very much the lifeblood of the UK; we are known around the world for our films, creative industries, artists and musicians, and I feel strongly that we have to make sure that we support them. I hope that my answers have been helpful to the Committee. I will follow up in writing if I have missed anything. As was noted, the regulations make changes to a very specialised area of law, and will play an essential role in our meeting our international obligations and ensuring effective protection for unregistered well-known marks in the UK. I hope that the Committee will support the regulations; it sounds as though it will.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Dean Russell Excerpts

Tuesday 25th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

4. What recent discussions he has had with Cabinet colleagues on the potential effect of raising the energy price cap on small and medium-sized businesses.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Dean Russell)]

Businesses are not subject to the energy price cap in the same way as domestic homes are subject, and are not eligible for the energy price guarantee. The Government are providing equivalent support to businesses through the energy bill relief scheme, which was launched on 21 September 2022.

[Alison Thewliss]

I have been inundated with calls from businesses, because those prices are not capped and they have soaring, runaway fuel costs. The latest was from Toryglen Community Base, whose bills are going up from £9,745 a year to £62,273 next year—a 539% increase. How does the Minister expect community organisations to pay those increased bills? They have to sign those contracts, whether they can afford them or not. The price is not going to go down. The community base has been quoted £50,000 a year for 2024. How does he expect community organisations to survive?

[Dean Russell]

I thank the hon. Member for raising her concerns, and I understand the points relating to her constituents and businesses. The Government are absolutely committed to supporting small and medium-sized businesses. I am very proud that, as the first point in my portfolio, small businesses are absolutely at the top of my agenda. Having worked with small businesses for many years, it is absolutely essential that we support them. We are looking at how we can best help to support businesses, and I will gladly write to her with further details.

[Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab)]

5. What assessment he has made of the adequacy of the number of onshore wind farms established in England since 2015.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con)]

14. What steps his Department is taking to safeguard intellectual property rights.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Dean Russell)]

The UK’s intellectual property framework and enforcement regime is widely recognised as world-leading. Our trade deals help UK businesses to get more from their rights overseas, and our ambitious counter-infringement strategy protects the value of investment in innovation and creativity.

[Sir John Whittingdale]

My hon. Friend will be aware of the critical importance of intellectual property protection to all the creative industries. Will he therefore reaffirm the commitment of his predecessor to look again at the proposal of the Intellectual Property Office to expand the exception for text and data mining, which would severely undermine intellectual property protection?

[Dean Russell]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his question. I think we have a shared love of the creative industries—definitely a love of film and music—and I understand the concerns he raises. When it comes to intellectual property, there is an absolute need to make sure that we are at the forefront of that around the world. On his specific question, the Government’s proposal on text and data mining supports their ambition to be a world leader in artificial intelligence research and innovation, but we recognise the concerns of the creative industries and want to make sure we get the balance right. That is why we will soon be launching a period of stakeholder engagement to consider the best way to implement the policy. I look forward to meeting him. He may want to bring some people from the industry along, too. I would gladly do that.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

We have seen an increase in research, sponsored by foreign countries, across the UK developing dual-use technologies that have benign civilian uses, but could be used for military purposes. Can the Minister provide assurances to this House today that IP developed on these shores will not be used against our allies for military purposes?

[Dean Russell]

I thank the hon. Member for his very important question. I will gladly follow up in writing to assure him of the position of the Government on the matter. What I would say is that the Government’s proposal to create a new text and data mining exception for copyright is part of their ambition to be a world leader in artificial intelligence research and innovation.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

A “yes” will do.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Dean Russell)]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question and her many years of work in this area. She is a staunch advocate for whistleblowing, and the chair of the all-party group for whistleblowing. I will gladly meet her to explore the issue further. I confirm that His Majesty’s Government are committed to the whistleblowing framework that the Department is still looking at.

[Kate Osborne (Jarrow) (Lab)]

T3. I thank the Minister for the constructive meeting that I and others had with him last week regarding the Post Office Horizon scandal, but he will know that no one from the Post Office, Fujitsu or the Government has yet to be held accountable. At that meeting, and last night in the other place, it was raised that despite this scandal, the Government are still awarding multimillion-pound contracts to Fujitsu. An apology from Fujitsu is not enough. Will the Secretary of State commit to pausing and reviewing all existing Government contracts with that appalling company?

[Dean Russell]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question and for meeting last week. The Horizon scandal was awful and I will gladly follow up with further meetings to discuss the matter further.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Will the Minister expedite the track 2 process for carbon capture, usage and storage?

--- Later in debate ---

[Ellie Reeves (Lewisham West and Penge) (Lab)]

T5. Postal workers at the depots in Forest Hill and Anerley in my constituency do a brilliant job, but they have faced weakening pay and conditions and now their jobs are under threat as Royal Mail looks to cut 10,000 positions. During a cost of living crisis, how can the Government allow that company to turn its back on hard-working staff? How is reducing the workforce compatible with maintaining the universal service obligation?

[Dean Russell]

That is a matter for the management of the company and its workforce to resolve. Disruption due to strike action impacts on consumers, businesses and other users. We are monitoring the dispute and urge both sides to reach an agreement as soon as possible.

[Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab)]

T6. The future of our planet is important to people in Newport West, who know that our climate is burning. We can see the impact all across the globe. With that in mind, what environmental assessment has the Minister made of the impact of a new round of oil and gas licences on the UK’s international climate commitment?

--- Later in debate ---

[John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)]

Judging from the earlier answer, can the public now assume that the Government are happy for Royal Mail management to drive the company into the ground, sack 10,000 people and reduce ex-workers to poverty—and the Government do not even have a view?

[Dean Russell]

Decisions on staffing levels and workforce structure are for Royal Mail. Collective redundancy legislation requires employers to consult employees or their representatives within a 90-day period, and that must include consultation on ways to avoid redundancies, reducing the number of redundancies or mitigating their impact. We want a resolution as soon as possible.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

The previous Secretary of State admitted that he had ignored looking at a price mechanism for pump storage hydro because he viewed it as a Scottish technology. It is actually a vital form of energy storage going forward, so can I get a commitment today on a timescale for BEIS officials to speak to SSE about a pricing mechanism for generating electricity at Coire Glas?

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Dean Russell Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 25th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Dean Russell)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

News of my promotion to Secretary of State has been exaggerated, but as Minister I will do my best this afternoon. I pay tribute to—I will not say predecessor—the former Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg). Without his staunch and hard work, and his passion to help families and businesses across the country to survive the difficult winter that is coming, and ensure that the energy support would be there, a lot of families would be very worried this winter. I pay tribute to him for his work. It is honourable of him to be here during this speech.

On 31 January the Government announced plans to bring forward the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill, which is the culmination of the Government’s work to untangle the United Kingdom from nearly 50 years of EU membership. Through the Bill we will create a more agile and innovative regulatory environment that would not have been possible were we still a member of the European Union. That will benefit people and businesses across the United Kingdom. The Government have achieved much since leaving the European Union and taking back control of money, borders, laws and our waters. We have created a world-leading covid vaccine programme, and signed 35 deals with 70 countries around the world. We accept that there is still more to do, and in January this year we set out our approach to becoming the best regulated economy in the world.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

How will the Minister answer the intemperate correspondence to which many of us have been subjected, announcing that the Bill will provide for the rape of the countryside and the destruction of wildlife? Will he be able to persuade people that this is a proportionate measure that will allow us to choose the regulations by which we wish to live, and judge them on their merits?

[Dean Russell]

I think that is the longest intervention I have ever heard my right hon. Friend make. He is absolutely right. The premise of the Bill is to ensure that we do what we have always done, which is to be the best place in the world to live, and that includes our environment. It is an absolute priority of this Government that the United Kingdom will be the best place to start and grow a business, to live, and to ensure that our environment around us is supported at all times. Within the Bill are powers that will allow us to make good on that promise.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Dean Russell]

I will give way in a little while; I want to make some progress. The Bill will enable outdated and often undemocratic retained EU law to be amended, repealed and replaced more quickly and easily than before. That will remove burdens on business, and create a more agile and sustainable legislative framework to boost economic growth.

[Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Minister be honest with the House? He says that the Bill will allow us to have the highest standards, but clause 15 formally confirms that we can only go down, and we can only have a race to the bottom, because it talks explicitly about not increasing burdens. Will the Minister tell the House who voted to lower our environmental protections in the referendum?

[Dean Russell]

I can be very honest in saying that the Bill will ensure that we have the highest standards, and within the process of this framework we will ensure that the burdens of delivering the best possible regulatory scheme are removed, while ensuring that we have the highest standards across all we do.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Dean Russell]

I will make some progress.

[Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)]

rose—

[Dean Russell]

I will come back to the hon. and learned Lady shortly.

As has been alluded to, some naysayers have asked, “Why is the Bill needed?” As a consequence of the oddities created by our previous EU membership, there are currently insufficient powers to make subordinate legislation to enable the amendment or removal of retained EU law from the statute book. The practical result is that standards do not get updated when they should be. Regulation, rather than adapting to support the needs of businesses in stable and emerging markets, ends up holding British businesses back. That is simply wrong, particularly when businesses and consumers face high energy bills and food prices as well as the many other challenges that we know are down to world events, and in particular the awful actions of President Putin. With our new-found freedom, it is important that we take the necessary powers to bridge the gap and reform legislation in a timely manner.

[Maria Caulfield (Lewes) (Con)]

The Minister is doing a fantastic job at the Dispatch Box. At oral questions this morning, Opposition Members were complaining about red tape and bureaucracy hamstringing small businesses. Does he agree that that means they will hopefully support the Bill in the Lobby tonight?

[Dean Russell]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The Bill is about cutting red tape where it is not needed and ensuring that businesses can spend more time transforming their business than filling out forms. We have a great opportunity to deliver for them and for people across the nation.

[Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab)]

rose—

[Dean Russell]

I will make some progress and give way in a while.

As I said, rather than adapting to support the needs of business, regulation has potentially been holding British businesses back, and we have an opportunity to deal with that. To ensure that the devolved Administrations can also seize fully the benefits of Brexit, we are providing them with the tools to reform retained EU law by extending the majority of powers in the Bill for use by devolved Administrations. It is a great opportunity—

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Dean Russell]

I am sure that many hon. Members are standing up to say how pleased they are with that announcement.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

As someone who fought to free ourselves from the shackles of Brussels, I welcome the legislation. Does the Minister recognise that the passing of the Bill will make it even more imperative that the Northern Ireland protocol be removed, because those freedoms would not be available to the Northern Ireland Administration, which will still be bound by EU laws?

[Dean Russell]

The right hon. Member makes an important point. This is about the United Kingdom and making sure that every single person across this great nation, wherever they live, can do and be their best in all that they do.

[John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con)]

I strongly support the Bill and congratulate the Minister on his presentation. I hope that the Government will urgently reform the energy directives and regulations that have made us cruelly import-dependent such that we now have to buy excessively expensive energy on the world market when we should drive for self-sufficiency.

[Dean Russell]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his intervention. It is ultimately about ensuring that we are doing the right thing by people across the country. The truth is that the Bill is a framework, and this is not the time to debate the minutiae and the details as there will be plenty of opportunities for that in Committee, the future stages and statutory instruments. We should welcome the Bill’s framework, which is about taking back control for the country.

[Joanna Cherry]

The Minister said that the Bill is about doing the right thing by people. Earlier, I understood him to say that there will be no diminution in rights as a result of it. However, has he not looked at clause 15(5), which makes it clear that, far from creating higher standards, replacement legislation can only keep standards the same or lower them? That is the case, is it not?

[Dean Russell]

I very much enjoyed serving with the hon. and learned Lady on the Joint Committee on Human Rights and understand that she is incredibly focused on detail. There will be much time for her to explore that further if she makes a speech; I hope that she will. The point of the framework is to transfer EU law into UK law and make sure that it does what it should. If she is happy with EU law where that is retained, it will be written in UK law.

[Joanna Cherry]

rose—

[Dean Russell]

I will come back to the hon. and learned Lady in a little while.

[Dame Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

Has my hon. Friend noticed, as I have, that Opposition Members seem to think that the only place that can possibly regulate, possibly have high standards and possibly deliver laws for this land is the EU? Does he agree that, actually, we have created much better regulation and far stronger standards that are much more flexible and suited to these islands than the EU and that we should carry on doing that?

[Dean Russell]

I thank my right hon. Friend—she is a very good friend—for her comments. The Bill is ultimately about making sure that we continue to do what we have done for decades, if not centuries: exporting high-quality products, exporting doing the right thing and exporting making sure that the world is a better place.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Dean Russell]

I will continue; I have taken quite a few interventions.

We have carefully considered how the Bill will affect each of the four great nations. We recognise the paramount importance of our continuing to work together as one on important issues, including environmental protections. The Bill will not weaken environmental protections.

[Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is doing a great job. It is right that, six and a half years after the referendum, we should get on with the process of taking control of our laws.

I served for two years in the Department for Exiting the European Union and gave many assurances in those years that, as we left the EU, our environmental standards and animal welfare regulations would be improved and strengthened, not weakened. Will he assure me that Ministers at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs will meet the Conservative Environment Network and our Wildlife Trusts to ensure that nothing is done in the process of the Bill to undermine our leadership in the nature protection space?

[Dean Russell]

I thank my hon. Friend and applaud the briefing that the CEN gave Members earlier today. Ultimately, this is about making sure that we are the best place in the world to live. On meetings, I assure him that we will engage widely—including with Opposition Members—and deliver on those promises. We will use the powers in the Bill to ensure that our environmental law is functioning and able to drive improved environmental outcomes, with the UK continuing to be a world leader in environmental protection.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

The Minister said earlier that the Bill was proportionate, but that is exactly what it is not, particularly given the sunset clause that means that DEFRA will have to go through revising and amending more than one piece of law a day between now and the end of next year. It is not proportionate; it is indiscriminate. It is also ideologically driven. Does he agree that DEFRA staff have better things to be doing, given that they are already late on the river basins management programme and the 25-year environment plan, and that the idea that the Department has the staff and resources to do that is irresponsible?

[Dean Russell]

I totally disagree, but I thank the hon. Lady for the intervention. Let me remind her that the Conservatives were the green party before the Green party. We are the party of the environment and will continue to be so. We were the party that made sure that businesses will not be able to put sewage in our waters, despite many Opposition Members making out that we voted for sewage. We did not—we made absolutely made sure that we are protecting our waterways. We are protecting our green fields and our land from top to bottom.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Dean Russell]

I will continue, because I have a lot to get through. I am sure that hon. Members have worked incredibly hard on their speeches, and I would like to listen to them.

As I said, we will use the Bill’s powers to ensure that our environmental law is functioning and able to drive improved environmental outcomes. The former Secretary of State did an excellent job recently meeting representatives of environmental groups alongside the environment Minister and assured them of the work that we will do. I am sure that that will continue.

As well as maximising the benefits of Brexit across the UK economy, the Bill will enable the Government to take the necessary steps to put our statute book on a sustainable footing by removing or replacing more than 2,500 laws derived from the UK’s membership of the EU, many of which are outdated and unduly burdensome. Earlier this year, the former Secretary of State—it irks me to have to say that—invited the House and members of the public to review the mass of legislation for themselves through the retained EU law dashboard, which was published in June and is available on gov.uk. That treasure trove of reform opportunities has acquired more than 100,000 views so far. I thank the public, businesses and civil society organisations for their invaluable views and input.

Together, we have identified where retained EU law must be excised from our statute book. Now, using this Bill, we will go further and faster to capitalise on the opportunities of Brexit. We will achieve that by addressing the substance of retained EU law through a sunset which means retained EU law will fall away on 31 December 2023 unless there is further action by Government and Parliament to preserve it. A sunset is the most effective way to accelerate reform across over 300 policy areas and will incentivise the rapid reform and repeal of retained EU law.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

What is the justification for allowing Ministers to scrap legislation that currently applies simply by doing nothing because of the sunset clause? I have never seen anything like it before. What is the justification for allowing law to fall away if Ministers decide, “Well, I’m not going to address it at all”?

[Dean Russell]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his comments. He was a staunch advocate of not leaving the EU, and I appreciate that that is his view. To answer the question, the goal here is that we are looking at all those laws. It is actually public on the dashboard; there is an opportunity for everybody to engage. On the framework of the Bill, there will be a Committee stage, and the ability to have parliamentary scrutiny is huge. I would make one other point, however. At what point were we able to scrutinise these laws when part of the EU? We were not. All those laws were put in without scrutiny and without the ability for us to do the work we needed to do. We are now taking back control to this country to deliver on the promises we made to the people and on the referendum they voted in.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Dean Russell]

I will not take many more interventions. I will continue for a short while.

Prior to 31 December 2023, the Government will determine which instruments should be preserved, which should be reformed and which should be revoked. I commend colleagues from across all Departments for their gallant efforts in establishing ambitious reform plans that will help to drive growth. We are already in the process of removing outdated retained EU law in financial services through the Financial Services and Markets Bill and have already repealed outdated rules, which has enabled us to capitalise on tax freedoms.

[Patrick Grady]

I thank the Minister for giving way. He is making the case for the constitutional importance of the Bill. As I asked him in Westminster Hall last week, will he not accept that the timetable proposed by the Government in the programme motion is wholly inadequate for the scrutiny of a Bill of such constitutional importance? If he will not commit the Bill to a Committee of the whole House, can he at least guarantee that we will have longer than a day on Report, so that it can receive the scrutiny it really deserves?

[Dean Russell]

I thank the hon. Member for his comments and for taking part in the debate last week. To be honest, we would have had more time today to debate if we had not played silly games earlier with votes and points of order, although I accept that they were important.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Dean Russell]

I will continue, if I may.

Prior to the date in the Bill, the Government will determine which instruments should be preserved, which should be reformed and which should be revoked. I repeat that because it is important. I commend colleagues across Departments for helping to ensure that we are driving growth. We are already in the process of removing outdated retained EU law in many areas. The Procurement Bill, for example, which is currently in the other place, replaces the EU procurement regime with a streamlined British approach, and of course DEFRA has made great headway over the past two years, taking us out of the common fisheries policy and common agricultural policy and pushing the boundaries of innovation thanks to Brexit, with two new pieces of legislation on gene editing.

The Bill will help us to sweep away outdated and obsolete EU legislation, paving the way for future frame- works better suited to the needs of the UK, including on energy, emissions trading, services and consumer law. Many in this House have claimed that changes to individual pieces of legislation will not make a difference. I could not disagree more. We must address the EU legislation holistically. By making marginal improvements across a whole host of regulation, we can foment a revolution in the margins and radically improve the UK’s competitiveness and productivity.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Dean Russell]

I have given way quite a lot today, and I want to at least get to the end of my speech while I am still in post!

For example, there are 33 individual pieces of retained EU law relating to eco-design requirements. I posit that it would be easier for business to comply if there was just one piece of legislation covering all relevant goods, providing a strong market incentive for businesses to increase energy efficiency. There are countless examples across Whitehall of where the Bill enables positive changes, from improving the clinical trial process to establishing sensible and proportionate artificial intelligence regulation, while still being very mindful of the rules around the impact on the culture sector and on many others.

[Sir Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)]

I am very grateful to the Minister for giving way and I congratulate him on doing such a sterling job under such difficult circumstances.

I recognise that it will be necessary to make changes to retained EU law that was never intended to be permanent, and there are good reasons for doing that, but there is a concern that doing it in the way proposed will add to legal uncertainty. The former Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg), kindly wrote to me as Chair of the Justice Committee to say that officials from the Department had engaged with the judiciary on how the Bill will work in relation to the interpretation of retained EU law and changes to it. Can the Minister help me, having had the benefit of discussions with the judiciary, with how the proposed changes will improve legal certainty, which of course is itself important for business certainty?

[Dean Russell]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. One of the key things for certainty is having a clear date and a point when it will all happen. Uncertainty often comes by not knowing. We were going to have to make sure that the sunset clauses came in at some point. If I am still in post, I will gladly continue to meet him. If I am not, I will make sure that the person who comes in after me—a bit like “Doctor Who” and David Tennant emerging from the TARDIS this week—continues that work. I look forward to that.

After consideration of the retained EU law dashboard, the former Secretary of State took the decision to exclude Acts of Parliament and Acts of the devolved legislatures from the sunset. The content of those Acts largely concerns the operation of domestic policy. As they have all been properly scrutinised and reflect the will of the public as enacted through democratically elected representatives, we will make sure of that. Given the practice of qualified majority voting in the EU, the same cannot be said for most other parts of retained EU law. That is why it is right we have the review and make plans to amend that law now. I remind Members that our constituents voted for us to be here to make decisions on laws that affect them. The idea that we should not be doing that and the idea that we are trying to say, “Let us keep it as it is” feels very wrong to me.

I accept, however, that some retained EU law in the scope of the sunset is required to continue to operate our international obligations, including the trade and co-operation agreement, the withdrawal agreement and the Northern Ireland protocol. Therefore, I am very happy to make a commitment today that the Government will, as a priority, take the necessary action to safeguard the substance of any retained EU law and legal effects required to operate international obligations within domestic law. We will set out where retained EU law is required to maintain international obligations through the dashboard, so that the public can scrutinise it. However, the sunset and the powers in the Bill are not enough to fully reclaim our parliamentary sovereignty. That is why I am also delighted to confirm once again that the Bill abolishes the principle of the supremacy of EU law. It is just absolutely absurd that in certain situations foreign law takes precedence over UK statute passed before we left the EU.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Dean Russell]

I am afraid I will make progress, because I can see the Opposition Front Bencher itching to get up and speak and comment on my speech.

By ending this constitutionally outrageous and absurd provision on 31 December 2023, we will ensure that Acts of Parliament passed during our membership of the EU will be returned to being the highest law in the land. The will of those past Parliaments as expressed through primary and secondary legislation will no longer be secondary to the will of Brussels.

The Bill will unlock growth across the United Kingdom. As we seize the benefits of Brexit and restore a sovereign approach to law and regulation, we can again legislate in support of the UK’s interests, rather than those of Brussels. This is of particular importance now, as our country pushes forward to recharge our economy in order to make the UK the best place in the world to run a business—[Interruption]—whether you want to live here, whether you want to walk in a beautiful green field in a park in our wonderful, beautiful lands of the UK—[Interruption]—or whether you want to start a business or grow a business—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I have let this run, but I have had enough now. The hon. Member for Lewisham West and Penge (Ellie Reeves) must stop shouting at the Minister. It is not appropriate behaviour and it gets us nowhere. She will have an opportunity to make a speech. If the Minister wishes to take her intervention, he will take it as he has taken other interventions, but she must stop shouting at him.

[Dean Russell]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have no issue with Opposition Members shouting, but I think that they perhaps sometimes do it a little too much. We want to make this country the best in the world; I have taken many interventions and hopefully that has been recognised. I commend the Bill to the House.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call Justin Madders—[Interruption.] Forgive me—I was totally prepared for a change of personnel on the Government Front Bench, but I had no idea that there would be one on the Opposition Front Bench. I call Jonathan Reynolds.

Carer’s Leave Bill

Dean Russell Excerpts

Friday 21st October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the Minister.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Dean Russell)]

It is always an honour to speak in these debates, and this one in particular shows the emotion that flows round the House. I really thank the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) for bringing forward this important legislation, and I thank all hon. Members who have spoken on this important issue. I will do my best to cover some of the key points—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. I do apologise for interrupting the Minister. It is important to admit a mistake when one has made one. I have omitted to call the Opposition spokesman. I am terribly sorry, but I got the order wrong. I call Imran Hussain.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Dean Russell)]

I should start by letting anyone watching on Parliament TV know that this is not a glitch—I am genuinely on my feet.

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bradford East (Imran Hussain). I thank the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) for introducing this important legislation. I thank all hon. Members who have spoken on this important issue. We must remember that any one of us, due to circumstances in our lives or those of our loved ones, could be a carer, and perhaps one who needs to work at the same time. The Bill affects everyone across society, but especially those incredible people who care for others. With that in mind, I am pleased to confirm that the Government will support the Bill. I thank my predecessors, my hon. Friends the Members for Loughborough (Jane Hunt) and for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully), for their work in this incredibly important area.

Carer’s leave will enable unpaid carers who are balancing paid employment with their caring responsibilities to take some time out of work if required, which will provide increased flexibility to support them to stay in work. The Bill has support across the House, which I was pleased to see reflected in our debate.

The speeches of the hon. Member for North East Fife and my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West (Shaun Bailey) were incredible, especially the statistics that my hon. Friend cited. The hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) gave incredibly powerful and moving testimony about her own experience. My hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) shared his personal experience with his parents; my heart truly went out to him.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers) is an incredibly experienced politician and a staunch and hard-working representative for her constituents. She asked whether we should legislate to go further, and she recognised the importance of the Bill and of where we are today. My hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough cited powerful statistics in support of the Bill and spoke about her work on the Bill as a Minister.

The Bill will provide invaluable support to unpaid carers, who carry out such an important and often difficult role in looking after their loved ones. It has been wonderful to see support for it across the House and across the political spectrum today. The Government truly look forward, as I do, to continuing to work closely with the hon. Member for North East Fife to support its passage.