Draft Common Fisheries Policy (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Draft Common Fisheries Policy and Aquaculture (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Draft Common Fisheries Policy (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) (No. 2) Regulations 2019
Robert Goodwill Excerpts(7 years ago)
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The Chair
Debate on each instrument can continue for up to an hour and a half. I remind the Committee that the debate should be confined to the instrument being considered.
The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr Robert Goodwill)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Common Fisheries Policy (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.
The technical amendments made by the draft regulations, which were laid under the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, will ensure that retained EU law provides effective and enforceable UK law, as well as continuity to businesses, while protecting the environment. No policy changes are being made to the effect of the retained EU law, and the regulations are not expected to change the way in which the fishing industry conducts its activities.
The draft regulations are complemented by the other fisheries statutory regulations that the Committee will consider today and by the Fisheries Bill, which will deliver our promise to take back control of our waters and decide who may fish in them and on what terms. They will create the powers to allow us to build a sustainable and profitable fishing industry over time.
The draft regulations will extend to, and apply to, the whole United Kingdom. Fisheries management in the UK is largely devolved in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, so the regulations have been developed and drafted in close co-operation with the devolved Administrations, who have given their consent. This will ensure a common approach that respects the existing devolution settlements and maintains the existing system of fisheries management, providing certainty to the fishing sector and businesses.
The draft regulations will amend the majority of the retained EU legislation, including the basic regulation, which provides overarching principles for fisheries management; the control regulations, which contain rules on compliance, including inspection and enforcement; the sustainable management of external fishing fleets regulation, which will provide a framework for authorising UK vessels to operate outside UK waters and non-UK vessels to operate in UK waters; and the regulations on illegal, unregulated and unreported fishing, which will allow us to prevent, deter and eliminate illegal fishing activities—by prohibiting the import of fish from vessels or countries that fish illegally, for example.
The draft regulations were considered by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, which reported them to the other place because of the public and political interest in fisheries. The Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments did not report them.
Because the draft regulations make only necessary technical amendments to retained EU law that already applies prior to exit day in the form of directly applicable EU law, a full impact assessment was not required. A 10-week consultation was conducted through the fisheries White Paper, which described future fisheries policy and the legislative approach taken by these statutory instruments. Meetings also took place with key stakeholders from the fisheries sector, the food industry and environmental non-government bodies, which broadly supported our approach. We also received several questions and comments from stakeholders, which we have addressed in explanatory memorandums available to parliamentarians and the public.
I commend the draft regulations to the Committee.
Luke Pollard
I am grateful for that intervention. It is good to see the former Fisheries Minister, the hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth, in his place, and good to know that the Government now need not only a Fisheries Minister but a former Fisheries Minister to rebut some of the Opposition’s scrutiny.
The concerns that we are raising sometimes relate to the implementation and drafting of the regulations. As the hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth will know from the statutory instrument Committee we sat on earlier today, the Minister himself acknowledged that there was a gremlin in that particular statutory instrument, which we flagged up. Our concern is about what other gremlins are in the statutory instruments we are considering today, and how they will affect future considerations.
Mr Goodwill
I appreciate that it is possible for oversights or mistakes to be made, but the gremlin that the hon. Gentleman describes was something that the EU had changed and that we had not quite caught up with. It was not something that was going to have a massive effect; it was just that there had been a change, which we will now reflect in future.
Luke Pollard
I am grateful to the Minister for making my point for me. The fact that mistakes have been made in that respect means that other mistakes could be made, which is why enhanced scrutiny is important in making sure that the regulations we are considering today—all 190 pages of them—are dealt with sufficiently robustly. These regulations affect one of our most important sectors, one that is especially important for those Members who represent coastal communities. As Business Green has noted,
“The pace at which draft legislation has been processed has been relentless…Parliamentary scrutiny has been creaking at the seams with MPs and peers often admitting they haven't had enough time to review the legislation thoroughly.”
I will now set out the Opposition’s concerns about these SIs, starting with the draft Common Fisheries Policy (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. We have a number of concerns about how the powers provided for in section 8 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 are being used. The drafting in a number of areas appears to be defective: it often fails to adequately correct the provisions of EU law, and makes a number of policy changes to the current provisions. Environmental organisations have got in touch with us to recommend that these common fisheries policy SIs be annulled and updated, because they fall short in a number of areas. I will take the Committee through the areas in which we believe the SIs, and this one in particular, are falling short.
These SIs risk creating a governance gap, placing responsibilities from EU bodies on to organisations that are yet to be created or sufficiently financed. They leave gaping holes in the area of enforcement, leaving fishers less safe and our waters less protected—a concern that the Opposition have raised about previous SIs. There is a risk that these SIs could degrade environmental standards, a point to which I will return when we consider electric pulse trawling. We have specific concerns about the Government’s ban on electric pulse trawling: it is a good example of a policy change hidden within these SIs, notwithstanding the Minister’s statement that there are normally no policy changes in such SIs.
I understand that the Minister will want us to hold our nose and vote these SIs through, because we are at risk of careering towards a no-deal Brexit. In the area of fisheries, unlike in other areas of Government scrutiny, the regulations are not necessarily in place if we do not pass these SIs, so we need to make sure we are using our time properly. However, given the extension from 29 March to 12 April, I suggest to the Minister that some provisions in these SIs should be looked at again and the instruments re-laid, so that they can be comprehensive and fulfil the role they are supposed to.
I am not trying to be difficult or fly a partisan flag, but the concerns about this SI were also highlighted last month by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, on 6 February. Its report states:
“Given the significance of fisheries as a policy issue, the House may wish to explore further the approach the Government have taken with this instrument.”
We also reject these SIs being grouped together. That is one reason why we have asked for them to be taken individually, and why I will focus my remarks on each in turn.
I have mentioned the governance gap, which was raised by a number of stakeholders. That is a common theme that Ministers and Government Members will have heard about from the Opposition when responsibilities, especially oversight responsibilities, are being moved from EU bodies to UK bodies. Several provisions in the first common fisheries policy SI remove functions currently carried out by EU bodies, such as the European Commission, the Scientific, Technical and Economic Committee for Fisheries, the European Fisheries Control Agency and the Advisory Council, which are not replaced in this particular SI. The loss of monitoring, reporting and other governance requirements will seriously undermine the functioning and effectiveness of the law. I would be grateful if the Minister came back on that point when he gets to his feet.
Obligations to provide assessments from reports to the European Commission and the European Parliament have been removed, including the provision of data on stock quantities. Given the fact that we are leaving the European Union, that might not be an unreasonable assumption, but our concern is that no subsequent scrutiny functions are inserted. The oversight role that we are looking for is no longer there.
Mr Goodwill
The fundamental point that I need to make at the very outset is that this SI is a business-as-usual SI: nothing is changing. It is indeed the case that once the Fisheries Bill is on the statute book, there will be a lot of opportunities to change policy, but this SI maintains the current situation. Many of the concerns the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport raised are possibly ones he might raise in the future when policy changes; indeed, they are ones he might wish to build into his party’s policies to ensure that these issues are addressed. However, this is a business-as-usual matter.
I also have to say, as a former Member of the European Parliament, that I was always struck by the lack of interest in Westminster in legislation that was being passed; indeed, when legislation did arrive in this building, the stable door had generally been well and truly shut after the horse had bolted, and it was generally a case of just rubber-stamping it. There was little engagement with the way legislation was being considered through the conciliation procedures and through the way the Parliament and the Council worked together. Yes, Ministers were engaged, and certainly British MEPs were engaged, but Parliament was pretty much out of the loop. Leaving the European Union will give us a chance to put Parliament back in the loop, and laws will be properly scrutinised as they are enacted.
The hon. Gentleman said that issues had been raised by non-governmental organisations and talked about bodies being funded. I have to say that, to a large extent, the enforcement, scrutiny and management of these schemes are already administered by the UK on behalf of the European Commission; we do not have an army of European Union fisheries inspectors marching up and down our quaysides and going on to our vessels to enforce these schemes, so the issue is something that, in many ways, we already have covered.
The hon. Gentleman mentioned CEFAS and the excellent science that is done by it, and my hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth also mentioned the work it does. Science can be the only basis on which the available fish is allocated and we consider our conservation measures. Having been to an EU Fisheries Council with my hon. Friend’s predecessor, I saw first hand the horse-trading whereby countries with no coastline and no fishing industry traded away the interests of fishermen in other member states to gain favours. Being an independent coastal state will give us the opportunity to set our fishing policy in a way that benefits our own economy and our own fishermen, rather than being subject to the horse-trading in smoke-filled rooms in Brussels—or rather rooms that used to be smoke filled.
The hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport talked about sharing vessel monitoring system data. One reason why it is important that we get the deal across the line is that we will then move into the implementation period, when a lot of these things can be hammered out. If we go for a no-deal scenario, then, yes, there could be problems; that is why I have now voted twice to get the deal over the line. If Members of the Committee would really like to avoid even the possibility of a no-deal scenario, they will have a third opportunity to act very soon.
Luke Pollard
I am reading into what the Minister has just said. The criticism I raised about VMS data-sharing is real, and it is a concern. When he gets to his feet, could he confirm that there are no data arrangements about VMS data-sharing? It sounds like he just admitted there were. For the record, it is really important that we are certain: is there data-sharing or is there not in relation to this SI?
Mr Goodwill
As far as I am aware, this is one of the issues that needs to be dealt with during the implementation period.
George Eustice
Does my right hon. Friend agree that, with other countries outside the European Union, such as Norway, we have in place framework agreements that set out our approach to joint fisheries management; that those agreements include provisions on data sharing; that the European Union has created a mandate for there to be a continuity agreement for the remainder of this year, which would cover such issues; and, indeed, that the Department already has advance plans for a future framework agreement to cover such matters?
Mr Goodwill
I thank my hon. Friend—having had five years in this job, he is well aware of the intricacies of some of the issues. However, the point that I am making is clear: the Prime Minister negotiated a 20-month implementation period to allow this and other measures to be agreed.
The hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw, who speaks for the SNP, said that we want to see continuity. That is precisely what this measure does: it ensures continuity. The measures agreed at the Fisheries Council before Christmas will continue past the date on which we leave the European Union. It has always been clear that that will be the case. I have to say to her, however, that members of the Scottish fishing industry—those to whom I spoke, anyway—are fully behind Brexit. They relish the opportunity we have to be an independent coastal state and to exploit the resource available to us.
Marion Fellows
Which group of fishermen did the Minister meet? Were they east coast fishermen, as opposed to the guys on the west coast, who are very much against Brexit?
Mr Goodwill
The guy I spoke to was on the east coast and very keen to exploit the opportunity. However, I am aware of some of the west coast issues as well, and they would need to be addressed. East coast fishing is big business, and its fishermen are concerned for us to move ahead. In that regard, fishermen on the east coast are absolutely out of step with the SNP’s view.
The Labour Front Bencher, the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport, asked why we had removed the requirement to enforce compliance with the rules effectively and proportionately. Under common law, the UK Government are already required to act in that way, and that is well established.
The hon. Gentleman talked about why the draft SI might result in a lack of regulatory oversight, which follows on from my previous point. It is not possible to create equivalent bodies through these SIs. Instead, the Environment (Principles and Governance) Bill will create the office for environmental protection and introduce other measures.
Luke Pollard
The Minister is making a good fist of this, but I worry that he is placing much of the key emphasis—the foundation of his arguments—on Bills that might appear in the future. As we know from the Fisheries Bill, however, Bills can go missing—that Bill has gone missing without any date set for it to come back. We are placing hope in a Fisheries Bill that does not exist in the current parliamentary schedule—it stands no chance of coming back—and in an environmental protection Bill that might face a similar fate if introduced in the next Session of Parliament. We need to look at the protections in this piece of legislation, within our existing regulatory framework. Doing that reveals a governance gap, because we do not have the primary legislation in place. Does the Minister agree with that concern?
Mr Goodwill
I am as keen as anyone to make progress on not only the environment Bill but the Fisheries Bill and the Agriculture Bill. It would certainly help if we can clear the decks for them, and one way to do so is to get the withdrawal agreement through so that we can move forward into the new phase and have new legislation from which the UK would benefit as an independent coastal state in terms of fisheries.
The hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport talked about pulse trawling, which is very much at the forefront of my mind. Article 31 of Council regulation 850/98 contains a prohibition on fishing with beam trawl using electrical pulse current in specified areas in most of the southern North sea. Part of that area falls in UK waters, and article 31a contains a limited derogation from the prohibition. That derogation has been amended so as to apply only to UK fishing vessels after EU exit—in other words, non-UK vessels will not be able to take advantage of it in our waters.
Third-country vessels cannot be authorised in UK waters when we leave the EU. The UK currently has three authorisations linked to pulse use, which are in the process of being reviewed with a view to withdrawing them, irrespective of the proposed EU time line to implement a pulse trawling ban effective from July 2021. Once again, the UK is moving ahead of our European partners on that method of fishing, which is deemed unacceptable by many and particularly members of the public.
Mike Hill (Hartlepool) (Lab)
I know we are going to move on to pulse fishing, but the Minister will recall that it is allegedly so cruel that it breaks the backs of fish. He will also recall that the number of vessels in the UK is pretty limited, and that other countries, such as the Netherlands, have much bigger fleets. Given that the EU has voted to completely ban pulse fishing by 2021, should we not be following the same lead?
Mr Goodwill
I thank the hon. Gentleman for the question; Hartlepool is an important port just up the coast from my constituency. As I said, only three authorisations are in place for UK vessels. We are proposing to review that, with a view to withdrawing them. I am confident that we may well be in a position to be ahead of the EU in getting that ban in place.
George Eustice
Does the Minister agree that the UK has led the calls in the EU for that change? Far from responding and reacting to what the EU is doing, we will implement, through the changes he outlines, a ban on the majority of pulse trawling in our waters far sooner than the European Union.
Mr Goodwill
My hon. Friend is absolutely right—I can think of several instances where the UK has wanted to move ahead on environmental or animal welfare legislation. I am digressing slightly, but we are looking at dry sow stalls, battery cage legislation and veal crates. The UK moved ahead of, and faster than, the rest of the EU—it was not moving at the same speed as us. Although people say that leaving the EU will result in a degradation of our environmental and animal welfare legislation, that has no regard to our track record as a nation. Both parties have been keen to promote those topics and to move faster than the rest, so leaving the European Union will give us the opportunity to do that, rather than dragging behind.
Hugh Gaffney (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)
On the point about the environment, can the Minister outline the limitations on the voltage and frequency? On top of that, what are the penalties if people go above them?
Mr Goodwill
I am not aware of the limitations on the voltage used, but we want to move to a situation where we have banned the practice altogether. As I say, when we have left the European Union, foreign vessels will not be allowed to operate it in our waters. We are also aiming to make progress on the three remaining UK vessels that are operating it. Every piece of advice that I have received indicates that it is an unacceptable way to fish.
The hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport asked why we had removed articles 11, 12 and 13. They will be replaced by schedule 7 to the Fisheries Bill. Together with the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967, that will allow us to go much further to protect the marine environment.
I thank all hon. Members who have contributed to the debate. The amendments made by the instrument are essential to ensure that retained EU fisheries law is effective and enforceable after the UK leaves the EU. The instrument marks an important step towards having a cohesive statute book for exit day, and provides us with a solid foundation on which to build our future fisheries policy as an independent coastal state. I thank hon. Members for their points, and I hope the Committee will approve the measure.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That the Committee has considered the draft Common Fisheries Policy (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.
Draft Common Fisheries Policy and Aquaculture (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Mr Goodwill
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Common Fisheries Policy and Aquaculture (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.
The instrument was laid under the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. The technical amendments made by the instrument will ensure that retained EU law concerning international agreements, technical conservation measures and the management of certain North sea stocks provides effective and enforceable UK law, as well as continuity for businesses, while protecting the environment. The draft instrument will also transfer powers from EU entities to UK fisheries administrations.
No policy changes are made to the effect of the retained EU law, and no change is expected in the way that the fishing industry conducts activities as a result of the draft instrument. The instrument is complemented by the Fisheries Bill, which will deliver on our promise to take back control of our waters and to decide who may fish in them and on what terms. It will create the powers to allow us, over time, to build a sustainable and profitable fishing industry.
The amendments extend and apply to the United Kingdom. Fisheries management in the UK is largely devolved to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The instrument has been developed and drafted in close co-operation with the devolved Administrations, who have given their consent, ensuring a common approach that represents existing devolution settlements, and maintains existing systems of fisheries management, providing certainty for the fishing sector and businesses.
The instrument amends regulations concerning regional fisheries management organisations. Having these in place when we leave the EU will mean that we are fully compliant with international agreements, allowing us to join key conventions in our own right. The instrument also amends the technical conservation measures that fishing vessels must adhere to. These regulations are essential for the management of the fisheries activities of UK vessels, wherever they are, and of non-UK vessels in UK waters.
Furthermore, amendments are made to the North sea multi-annual plan, which establishes long-term plans for the recovery, preservation and sustainable management of mixed fisheries in the North sea. The instrument also transfers powers contained in 15 of the regulations amended by the other two statutory instruments, as well as one aquaculture regulation.
These powers to make legislation or to exercise legislative decisions were previously conferred on EU entities but will now be enacted by UK Administrations, and parliamentarians will be able to scrutinise them in a way not possible when the powers were exercised by the EU—a point I made during the debate on the last instrument. There are also minor, consequential changes to domestic legislation. The instrument has been considered by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee and the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, neither of which reported it.
Because the instrument makes only necessary technical amendments to retained EU law that—prior to exit day—already applies in the form of directly applicable EU law, a full impact assessment was not required. A 10-week consultation was conducted through the fisheries White Paper, which described future fisheries policy, as well as the legislative approach taken by these SIs.
Alongside that, meetings took place with key stakeholders from the fisheries sector, the food industry and environmental non-government bodies. Stakeholders were broadly supportive of the approach taken. We also received several questions and comments from stakeholders, which we have addressed in the explanatory memorandum, which is available to parliamentarians and the public. I commend the regulations to the Committee.
Luke Pollard
My hon. Friend is right. If we are to create sustainable fisheries, we need them to be sustainable, both environmentally, by dealing with climate change and its effects, and economically. The temptation to use this method is a real concern, which is why I want to see it banned comprehensively, with no provision for an opt-out.
Mr Goodwill
My hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth is absolutely right: under the withdrawal Act, we cannot move further than this legislation does, because that would be a policy change. We have clearly announced that we will review the three UK boats that pulse fish, with a view to stopping that activity. I cannot see owners of other vessels considering it to be a worthwhile investment to engage in that type of fishing and investing in the equipment, given the message that we have sent out.
Luke Pollard
When the Minister got to his feet, I was looking to him to commit to removing that 5% derogation and ban the practice completely. That is what the Opposition are looking for and what hon. Members on the Government Benches, who have fishing communities that have been trimmed from the SI, also want.
If we are to have truly sustainable fisheries, which is the ambition set out in the fisheries White Paper, we must not allow a loophole through which up to 5% of beam trawlers can use this method. Conditions might change; we need to ensure that fishing regulations are future-proofed. Otherwise, all we are doing is simply allowing a loophole that will need to be addressed in future.
We are very concerned about the 5% figure. I would be grateful if the Minister could set out how he intends to remove any loopholes from future regulations. Potentially allowing 200 boats—5% of beam trawlers—to use this fishing method in future opens the opportunity for considerable pain.
I would also like the Minister to edit this part of the SI to include additional protections. The former Minister set out the need for occasional scientific derogations, to investigate whether elements of technological change in pulse beaming could be more sustainable, but clear parameters should be set around that.
The Minister missed a trick with regard to public consultation, and when he said there was no prohibition on this type of fishing activity in marine protected areas, or within 12 nautical miles of the shore. We believe there should be strict punishments and proper enforcement.
I am conscious that hon. Members wish to return to the main Chamber, so I will not keep us on this point much longer. Our concern is that the SI creates a loophole in law and does not set out a clear enough vision or certainty that this method will be banned. I would like to see the SI brought forward again with that loophole removed, in which case the Opposition would be happy to support the Minister.
Mr Goodwill
The hon. Gentleman cannot have it both ways. I have given him assurances that the SI is merely updating EU legislation to take account of the fact that the UK will be an independent coastal state with control of its own fisheries, and we will be leaving the European Union. At the same time, he is tempting us to add additional measures. This is a business-as-usual measure that will reassure the industry that things are not going to change. When the Fisheries Act, as it will become, is on the statute book, we will have the opportunity to make changes.
The hon. Gentleman can be assured that on the day that we leave the European Union, none of the 87 Dutch-registered vessels using this fishing method will be able to fish in our seas. We will review the three UK boats, with a view to stopping that activity; it would then be banned.
Mike Hill
Earlier, the Minister was talking about making improvements. I understand that improvements can be made further down the line, but some matters are simple. Marine protected areas are protected for a reason—they are vulnerable or important ecosystems. Why is there no protection for them against pulse fishing? Why is pulse fishing not kept away from marine protected areas?
Mr Goodwill
Marine protected areas are there to allow habitats to build, and fishing can be limited or banned altogether in those areas. One of the big conversations I have with the charter boats in my constituency is whether they should be allowed to fish using conventional rod-and-line methods in those areas. The Fisheries Bill gives us the opportunity to make further changes unilaterally, without having to get the agreement of 27 other nations, many of whom do not have a coastline and have no real interests in fisheries, but do have votes in the Council.
Listening to the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport, one would assume that the common fisheries policy had been an unqualified success, and that we were being dragged kicking and screaming from its clutches. I do not need to remind the Committee of, for example, the effect of discards on fish supposedly being conserved and having their stocks improved; it has been very destructive. It is only in recent years that we have brought in the landing obligation and more reasonable methods. We can build on that as an independent coastal state without waiting for the others. When we come to the annual fisheries negotiations, we will be there in the same way that Norway and the Faroes are there. I hope we will have close links with them so that we can work together with the EU as another part of the process to ensure that we continue to build stocks in the North sea and have fewer stocks under threat.
Luke Pollard
I am sure the Minister knows, having read back on fisheries debates in this House over the past year, that it is not my view that the CFP is a field of gold. Despite my being fond of Europe in many respects, the CFP is an example of where it went wrong. I am grateful to set the record straight. Improvements can be made, and banning electric pulse beam fishing is something that we could and should do now. If it is not to be banned in this SI, will the Minister commit to introduce a dedicated, tiny SI to remove the 5% so that when we leave the European Union—if that happens—a cruel fishing method will be banned in its entirety?
Mr Goodwill
I have made it clear twice that we will review the remaining three vessels. There are only three UK boats that are doing this and, following the review, we will consider how we can stop such activity. When we have left the European Union, none of the 87 Dutch vessels will be able to fish in our waters.
The hon. Gentleman mentioned why we have revoked emergency powers on recovery of stocks. I remind him that each UK fisheries administration already has existing powers to do that through licensing of fishing vessels under the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967.
I think I have covered the points made during the debate. Once again I reassure the Committee that this is a business-as-usual statutory instrument. It reassures the industry, environmentalists and others that when we leave the European Union, as I am convinced we must and should if we are to deliver on the momentous decision made by the British people, we can do so in a way that is orderly. If Members are concerned about how that will happen, I have only one message for them: vote for the withdrawal agreement. Their third chance is coming up. We need to move into the implementation period where many of the issues raised can be sorted out. It seems nobody wants a hard Brexit. I do not look at anyone in particular, but if we can just get over the line we can move into a situation where we can resolve the issues.
We have had a constructive and useful debate and I commend the regulations to the Committee.
Question put.
Mr Goodwill
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Common Fisheries Policy (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) (No. 2) Regulations 2019.
The technical amendments made by this instrument will ensure that regulations concerning fishing opportunities and the landing obligation continue to operate effectively as retained EU law after the UK leaves the EU. They will provide continuity to businesses while protecting the environment. No policy changes are made to the effect of the retained EU law, and no change is expected in the way the fishing industry conducts its activities as a result of the SI.
The instrument is complemented by the Fisheries Bill, which will deliver our promise to take back control of our waters, and decide who may fish in our waters and on what terms. It creates powers that will allow us over time to build a sustainable and profitable fishing industry. The amendments apply to the United Kingdom. Fisheries management in the UK is largely devolved to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. These instruments were developed and drafted in close co-operation with the devolved Administrations, who have given their consent, ensuring a common approach that represents the devolution settlement and maintains the existing system of fisheries management. They provide certainty to the fishing sector and businesses.
This instrument amends three regulations that set out exemptions from the landing obligation for certain fisheries in north-western waters and the North sea. The minor technical amendments to these provisions enable the UK to facilitate the full implementation of the scheme from January 2019. That will ensure that the UK continues to abide by the same conservation measures.
The instrument also amends two regulations that set fishing opportunities. One sets total allowable catch and quota for fish stocks for 2019, and the second sets total allowable catch and quota for certain deep-sea stocks for 2019 and 2020. In those two regulations, the prohibitions on fishing for certain species in certain areas will be amended so they continue to apply. However, provisions that put into law the TAC and quota set by the EU will be revoked, because it will not be appropriate for them to apply to the UK when we become an independent coastal state.
This instrument has been considered by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee and the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, neither of which reported it. Because it makes only necessary technical amendments to retained EU law prior to exit day, which already applies in the form of directly applicable EU law, a full impact assessment was not required. As I say, it is another business-as-usual SI.
A 10-week consultation was conducted through the fisheries White Paper, which described future fisheries policy and the legislative approaches taken by these SIs. Alongside that, meetings took place with key stakeholders from the fisheries sector, the food industry and environmental non-governmental bodies. The stakeholders were broadly supportive of the approach. We have also received several questions and comments from stakeholders, and we have addressed them in the explanatory memorandum that is available to parliamentarians and the general public. I commend the regulations to the Committee.
Mr Goodwill
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. He asked why we removed a reference to maximum sustainable yield; setting stocks at maximum sustainable levels is the key to building stocks, particularly for declining or flatlining species. That is a key element of the way we measure stocks and control fishing. A target to achieve maximum sustainable yield appears in a number of provisions in EU retained law. The statutory instruments have required different approaches for each target until we can set the UK future approach using the Fisheries Bill, which I have said I would like to get on the statute book as soon as possible, to make it a Fisheries Act.
With regards to article 2 of the basic regulation, we cannot make the maximum sustainable yield target in this provision operable because it depends on mutual access across member state waters. The Secretary of State would be unable to achieve it unilaterally. Article 6 of the TACs and quota regulation is concerned with TACs to be determined by member states. It has been omitted because the Secretary of State will determine TACs under the powers in the Bill and common law powers, along with the criteria for setting quota. On the North sea multi-annual plan, the draft regulations detail specific targets that relate to certain species in certain areas. Amending the targets would be beyond the scope of the powers provided by the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018, as the MSY target has already been implemented and we are staying in the multi-annual plan.
The hon. Gentleman mentioned article 6 of the TAC and quota regulation; that is to be determined by member states because we are still in the European Union. He mentioned that the SI removes article 15 of regulation 2019/124, which is about the submission of data to the Commission, and asked whether we will still record the quantity of stocks. That will continue to be collected. Article 33 of the control regulation, which is referred to in article 15 of EU regulation 2019/124, is amended by the third instrument to ensure that fisheries administrations must record all relevant data on fishing opportunities, as referred to in that regulation. However, it would be inappropriate to report the data to the Commission once the UK is no longer a member state.
The hon. Gentleman raised similar concerns to the ones he raised in the two preceding statutory instruments. I reassure him similarly that this is a business-as-usual measure and that further exciting changes to the way we manage our fisheries will be available to us when we are an independent coastal state, using the Fisheries Bill when it becomes an Act to do that. I look forward to debating the remaining stages of that Bill as soon as we can.
Question put and agreed to.
Draft Rural Development (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Draft Rural Development (Rules and Decisions) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Robert Goodwill Excerpts(7 years ago)
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The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr Robert Goodwill)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Rural Development (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.
The Chair
With this it will be convenient to consider the draft Rural Development (Rules and Decisions) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.
Mr Goodwill
It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gapes. As a farmer myself, and given that my family business participates in an agri-environmental scheme, I should mention my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.
The two statutory instruments are closely interrelated and I thank the Committee for taking them together. They amend retained EU law to ensure that rural development payments can still be made after exit day. The amendments will maintain the effectiveness and continuity of EU legislation that would otherwise be deficient after our exit. The changes are necessary to enable rural development programmes, particularly those partially funded by the European agricultural fund for rural development—the EAFRD—to continue to operate effectively in the United Kingdom following exit, until their closure after the end of the 2014 to 2020 programme period.
Sir Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con)
With his background, the Minister will know the importance of the rural development programme for England. Can he confirm that the effect of the draft instruments will be that that programme will continue unimpeded and unchanged and that there will be proper funding for it if we have a no-deal Brexit?
Mr Goodwill
I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for his question. I can absolutely confirm that—it is vital if we have a no-deal Brexit. If, as I hope, we do not have a no-deal Brexit—I hope Opposition Members will think about that before next week’s vote—the regulations will come into force when we leave, following the implementation period.
Four rural development programmes operate in the UK—one for each Administration—providing funding for rural businesses, farmers, land managers and applicants who live in a rural community, with the intention of growing the rural economy, increasing productivity and improving the environment. The European fund relevant to the instruments is the EAFRD, which supports the delivery of rural development in the UK and is worth £430 million a year over the programming period.
The UK Government have guaranteed that any projects funded from the 2014 to 2020 allocation will be funded for their full lifetimes, to repeat the point that I made to my right hon. and learned Friend. The changes that the draft instruments make ensure that payments can continue to be made to agreement holders, using domestic funding in place of EU funding. That will provide certainty to individuals and businesses who receive development funding or who are considering applying for funding during the current 2014 to 2020 programming period.
The draft Rural Development (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 amend the EU regulation that provides the general rules and structures that govern support for rural development, provide payments to be made to agreement holders and lay down rules on programming, networking, management, monitoring and evaluation. That includes the countryside stewardship and environmental stewardship schemes, which improve the environment; the countryside productivity fund, which supports productivity improvements in farm and forestry businesses; and the growth programme, which supports rural business development, food processing, tourism and broadband. Let me give examples of the sort of projects that the latter two funds might support. The countryside productivity fund might fund a fruit-growing business to increase the storage capacity of a reservoir to include water security during the summer months. The growth programme might support a company that grows salad leaves and specialist vegetables to invest in new equipment to keep up with demand and grow the business.
The draft Rural Development (Rules and Decisions) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 amend the implementing and delegated provisions made under the main rural development EU regulation. They also amend four implementing decisions that approve the rural development programmes for each of the devolved Administrations. We are omitting powers to submit and implement an information and publicity strategy, and actions relating to it. That includes the requirement for agreement holders to publicise EU participation. We have all seen the big billboards around the country where EU funding has been used. As we are no longer using EU funding, putting up those big billboards, with those blue flags with yellow stars on, will no longer be a requirement. I am sure that that will be a great relief to many of those travelling around the country, and will emphasise that we have left the European Union.
I emphasise that the instruments remedy deficiencies in the regulations that are a direct result of the UK leaving the EU, to ensure that they continue to operate effectively when we leave. They do not introduce any new policy, and simply preserve the current regime for supporting rural businesses and environmental land management, among other things. The amendments include omitting redundant references to the European Commission and member states, and replacing them with either the UK or the relevant authority as appropriate. The instruments also make references to “Union law” throughout, so that the relevant EU regulations continue to operate effectively as part of national law. Provisions that are deficient because they are time limited, under which the relevant actions have occurred, have also been omitted—such as the provisions relating to ex-ante evaluations that have already been completed.
One purpose of the modifications is to ensure continuity and clarity regarding which public bodies have responsibility towards the programmes. The obligations and discretions placed on member states will continue to be exercised after exit by relevant authorities in the UK. In this context, “relevant authority” means the Secretary of State in relation to the rural development programme for England, Scottish Ministers in relation to the rural development programme for Scotland, Welsh Ministers in relation to the rural development programme for Wales, and the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs in relation to the rural development programme for Northern Ireland, where we do not currently have an Administration operable.
As hon. Members are well aware, agriculture is a devolved policy area, and is of special importance for all parts of the UK. We have worked closely with the devolved Administrations to produce the instruments, and they place great importance on them. They have given their full consent for them.
I repeat that the statutory instruments are required for the continued operation of the rural development programmes. Without them, there will be no legal powers to make payments to fulfil the promises that those important programmes will continue.
Mr Goodwill
I am very pleased to respond to the hon. Gentleman’s points, which I have to say are precisely the sort of questions that I have been asking as a new Minister in the Department. It is constructive that we seem to be on the same page about the exciting opportunities available to us as we leave the European Union. I will expand on that in due course.
The two draft instruments will ensure that the rural development programmes funded by the EAFRD continue to operate effectively in the United Kingdom following EU exit. As I said, the development fund is worth some £430 million a year, and the UK—I repeat—has guaranteed that any projects funded from the 2014 to 2020 allocations from the fund will be funded for their full lifetime. The instruments provide the legal basis for continuing to make payments to agreement holders, providing certainty to farms and land managers, and for preserving the existing regime for supporting rural businesses and environmental land management, among other things.
The hon. Gentleman started his remarks by saying that this SI is the one that concerns him most. I have to say, there is nothing to see here. These are not changes; this is maintaining the existing situation so that we can continue the current regime. It is business as usual. The debate gives me another opportunity to reassure right hon. and hon. Members that that is indeed the case.
The hon. Gentleman has not fully grasped the opportunities that life outside the European Union may present. Having sat in the back row in the Agriculture Bill Committee, I know of the tremendous opportunities and the innovative new schemes that will come forward. No doubt those schemes will build on our experience of existing agri-environmental schemes. On my own farm, for example, we are planting nectar plants—the first time that we have ever encouraged weeds, rather than killed them. We need to build on such schemes.
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
My recollection of the Agriculture Bill Committee is that the right hon. Gentleman disagreed with rather a lot of the Bill. Now he has been promoted to the Front Bench, has he had something of an epiphany so that he agrees with the Government line?
Mr Goodwill
If the hon. Lady analyses everything I said in that Committee, as I have done, it was absolutely in line with the objectives and ambitions of the Bill, and the reassurances that I received from my predecessor established the fact that we are on the right page and that we need to move forward. She must revisit the points that I made—I asked some searching questions during the debate, and I was pleased with the answers that I received. Indeed, I was happy to vote for that piece of legislation.
Kerry McCarthy
I assure the Minister that I have gone through what he said in the Agriculture Bill Committee with a fine-toothed comb. I have a very long list of where there might now be some inconsistencies, but we can return to them at a future date.
Mr Goodwill
I look forward to that robust exchange of views. Indeed, it might be that, given my particular take on some aspects of that Bill, we look at some amendments. Who knows!
The hon. Member for Stroud made a valid point that not all the funds have been drawn down. That is a great disappointment, because the funds are important to develop not only our rural economy but the public goods and the environment that people wish to see. We need to analyse why that was not done. In the case of some of the capital grant funding for improvements to businesses, the EU structure was often very much based on giving money to co-operatives. Many European Union countries have a much wider co-operative structure among their farmers, particularly in areas where there are small farmers, who can work together only if they co-operate. In the UK, we do not have that same history of co-operatives, which in some cases has prevented farmers from applying, say, for better storage facilities.
Secondly, as the hon. Gentleman mentioned, many EU schemes are complicated and over-bureaucratic. We need to look at how to simplify them. Given the egregious exploitation of schemes in some parts of southern Europe, I can understand why the European Union came to the view, in some cases, that every farmer was out to exploit the system in a way that was not intended. My view is that farmers in this country are much more likely to comply and engage with our common objectives.
I met several landowners and farmers at an event last week. The point has been made that we have not made payments as effectively as we should—there have been delays, particularly in the agri-environmental schemes. Many such schemes involve up-front investment, such as buying seeds or hedging plants, so we need to improve our performance to encourage more people to feel that they can invest in them.
The hon. Gentleman talked about funding. There is the small matter of our contribution to the European Union budget, which we will be able to deploy for our own interests. As net contributors, we will be in a better position to make sure that the money is adequately spent. We will certainly be engaging in the spending review and with the devolved Administrations to make sure that we have a fair share of the available money and that it can be deployed as intended and not top-sliced in some other way.
Dr Drew
Obviously we will not replicate pillar 1 and pillar 2, but is the Minister saying that the pillar 2 moneys will be secured? So far, he has mentioned agriculture and land, but not rural communities. A key thing about the pillar 2 moneys was that they were ring-fenced for particular rural developments, which may have involved farmers and landowners, but did not have to. What will the Government do to make sure that the pillar 2 moneys are secured, as they were under the EAFRD?
Mr Goodwill
As the hon. Gentleman well knows, the direction of travel in policy is to switch funding from pillar 1 to pillar 2, so direct funding will be reduced at the same time as the schemes that the Agriculture Bill facilitates are delivered. I am ambitious and optimistic that we can continue to build on such schemes and that the money will be there, because we will be directing it for the public goods that farmers will be keen to deliver. The general public will also feel more content, perhaps, that taxpayers’ money is being spent in those directions rather than how it was spent in the past.
The hon. Gentleman talked about the consultation. There was no statutory requirement to consult, because we are not making operational changes. We met the Rural Payments Agency industrial partnership group in September 2018 to update farming and land management stakeholders about the Government’s plan for EU exit. A number of stakeholders were present, including the Tenant Farmers Association, the Country Land and Business Association, the Farming Community Network, the Institute of Agricultural Secretaries and Administrators, the British Institute of Agricultural Consultants and the National Farmers Union. A subsequent meeting was held on 26 November 2018.
The hon. Member for Dundee West is concerned about Scottish participation. I spoke to Fergus Ewing last week to reinforce my wish to work with the Scottish Government. Their consultation, “Stability and Simplicity”, which was published in June 2018, invited comments on their proposals for dealing with the implications associated with leaving the common agricultural policy. It explained that the first stage would be for EU law to be retained in domestic legislation. The consultation closed in August 2018 and there were 137 responses. At least so far as that aspect is concerned, the Scottish Government are engaging.
Chris Law
Will the Minister confirm that, when the Agriculture and Fisheries Bills are introduced, the powers that belong to Scotland will be devolved back to it? On funding for the highlands and islands, it looks like we will be £160 million short from 2021 to 27. He might not be able to give me the numbers just now, but will he look into that and write to me about what he will do about that shortage?
Mr Goodwill
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to make the case on behalf of not only his constituents but his nation. We certainly look forward to robust exchanges about the way funding is brought forward, but I repeat that, as we leave the European Union, the money that we previously paid into the coffers in Brussels will be available for us to deploy here. England is embracing the opportunities of leaving the European Union, and the Agriculture Bill is one clear example of that. The Scottish Government need to engage more widely in those opportunities and must not be in Brexit denial. Many of the hon. Gentleman’s right hon. and hon. Friends seem to think that it is not going to happen. It is important that they realise that the result of the referendum in the United Kingdom was to leave the European Union. The Government of the United Kingdom are determine to deliver our promise.
As further changes to the way we deploy and deliver the agri-environmental and other schemes in this SI emerge, we will of course consult. We will evaluate the way that schemes have worked in the past. We will need to see how we can balance and incentivise new schemes, particularly in connection with the environment, to ensure we get the balance right between rewarding those who were in the vanguard of delivering these environmental schemes and incentivising new entrants. Getting that balance right will be one of the important challenges for us.
Dr Drew
Given how small the rural team is in DEFRA—people now just call it “DEF”, because the “RA” has dropped off—who will do this? These schemes, such as the ones through Erasmus, have not necessarily directly involved DEFRA. It may have had some sign-off, but it has not been directly involved with some of the rural initiatives. Who will do that? We are talking about dropping out next week, so this is pretty urgent stuff. What mechanism is in place to undertake this evaluation?
Mr Goodwill
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. We will only drop out next week if the Labour party votes against the agreement that will allow us to leave in an orderly way, and allow the implementation period to be delivered. We are preparing for a no-deal Brexit, but it is not a particularly palatable prospect, in terms of turbulence in the land market. The documentation required for, say, fish exports will need to be delivered in a very short time. The Labour party needs to think long and hard about the game it is playing in this regard.
Mr Goodwill
I apologise, Mr Gapes.
As we move forward, we are looking to ensure that these schemes are adequately funded. We will need to consult if changes are to be made in future. The Agriculture Bill is the perfect foundation on which to build new, innovative and exciting schemes that will not just deliver for agriculture and food production, which is the primary role of agriculture, but provide important public goods.
On highlands and islands funding, and Scotland’s missing out on EAFRD funding, we have committed that the Barnett formula will not simply be applied to DEFRA’s agriculture budget in 2022. That means that farmers in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland will not just be allocated funding according to the population size in each nation, which in each case is significantly smaller than England. I hope that provides some reassurance that we will look at the needs of agriculture, rather than per capita funding.
I hope I have answered all the questions that were asked. These statutory instruments are required for the continued operation of the rural development programme, and will ensure that farmers and land managers are able to be paid after we have left the EU.
Question put.
Draft European Structural and Investment Funds Common Provisions (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Draft European Structural and Investment Funds Common Provisions Rules Etc. (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Robert Goodwill Excerpts(7 years ago)
General CommitteesRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr Robert Goodwill)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft European Structural and Investment Funds Common Provisions (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.
The Chair
With this it will be convenient to consider the draft European Structural and Investment Funds Common Provisions Rules etc. (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.
Mr Goodwill
Thank you, Mr Owen. I welcome everybody, in particular the former agriculture Minister, the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse, and the former Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire. What a panoply of expertise we have in the room.
As a farmer, and given the family business participation in an agri-environment scheme, I should mention my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. The matter in the two instruments is closely interrelated and I will speak to both together.
The instruments amend retained EU law and domestic legislation to ensure that rural development payments and maritime and fisheries payments can still be made after exit day. Those amendments will maintain the effectiveness and continuity of EU and domestic legislation that would otherwise be deficient following our exit.
The changes are necessary to enable rural development programmes, partially funded by the European agricultural fund for rural development and the maritime and fisheries operational programme, and partially funded by the European maritime and fisheries fund, to continue operating effectively in the United Kingdom following exit, until their closure after the end of the 2014 to 2020 programming period.
There will be an opportunity to consider the scheme-specific regulations for the European agricultural fund for rural development tomorrow, and for the European maritime and fisheries fund during the week commencing 25 March, because they are made operable in the EU exit regulations for the common fisheries policy.
There are currently four rural development programmes operating in the UK, one in each Administration, providing funding for rural businesses, farmers, land managers and applicants living in a rural community with the intention of growing the rural economy, increasing productivity and improving the environment.
The projects funded include water environment grants, the English woodland grant scheme and the growth programme, which supports rural business development, food processing, tourism and broadband. The maritime and fisheries programme is UK-wide and promotes growth in the sector by providing funding for sustainable fisheries, marketing and processing and sustainable aquaculture, among other things.
Examples of projects include health and safety initiative training schemes delivered through Seafish, individual pots—creels, north of the border—and net replacement schemes, as well as support in ports and harbours. The EMFF also supports innovative projects that aim to promote partnerships between scientists and fishermen.
The European agricultural fund for rural development supports the delivery of rural development in the UK and is worth £430 million per year over the programming period. The European maritime and fisheries fund supports the implementation of the common fisheries policy and promotion of growth in the sector. It is worth £32 million per year. The UK Government have guaranteed that any projects funded from the 2014 to 2020 allocations from those funds will receive their full financial allocation and will continue to receive funding over the project’s lifetime. That repeats the reassurances I gave during a similar Committee yesterday.
The changes made by the instruments ensure that payments can continue to be made to beneficiaries, including domestic funding in place of funding from the EU, providing certainty to individuals and businesses that currently receive rural development and maritime and fisheries funding, or that are considering applying for funding during the current 2014 to 2020 programming period.
The draft European Structural and Investment Funds Common Provisions (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 amend the EU regulation that sets out the shared framework for all of the European structural and investment funds but only as far as it applies to rural development and maritime and fisheries.
The draft European Structural and Investment Funds Common Provisions and Common Provision Rules etc. (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 amend the supplementary and implementing rules for European structural and investment funds for rural development and maritime and fisheries. I emphasise to hon. Members that these instruments ensure that those funds continue to operate effectively when we leave. The instruments do not introduce new policy; they preserve the current regime for supporting rural businesses, environmental land management and sustainable fisheries, among other things.
The amendments include omitting references to the European Commission and member states, which will no longer be relevant as a result of the UK leaving the European Union, and replacing them with “the relevant authority” as appropriate. The instruments also amend references to European Union law throughout, so that the relevant EU regulations continue to operate effectively as part of our national law. Provisions that are deficient because of exit and where the relevant actions have already taken place have also been omitted, such as provisions relating to pre-financing, which was paid out when the programmes were initially set up.
One purpose of those modifications is to ensure continuity and clarity as to which public bodies have responsibility towards the programmes. The obligations and discretions placed on member states will continue to be exercised after exit by relevant authorities in the UK. In that context, “relevant authority” means the current managing authority of the maritime and fisheries operational programme; the Marine Management Organisation; the Secretary of State in relation to the rural development programme for England; Scottish Ministers in relation to the rural development programme for Scotland; Welsh Ministers in relation to the rural development programme for Wales; and, at the moment at least, the Department for Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs in relation to the rural development programme for Northern Ireland.
As hon. Members are aware, agriculture and fisheries are devolved policy areas and are of special importance to all parts of the UK. We have worked closely with the devolved Administrations to produce these instruments. Those Administrations place great importance on them, and have given their full consent. I repeat that these instruments are required for the continued operation of the rural development programmes and the maritime and fisheries programme. Without them, there would be no legal powers to make payments to fulfil the promise that those important programmes will continue. I therefore commend the instruments to the Committee.
Mr Goodwill
It gives me great pleasure to respond to constructive questions that we all need reassurance about. Fundamentally, the two measures are an insurance policy in the event of a no-deal exit from the EU. Members have talked about the difficulties of a no-deal situation, but the answer is simple: vote for the deal, as I have done twice already. If we can get the deal over the line, as Members on both sides of the House have already voted to do, we can get into the implementation period and these measures will not be necessary. The people of this country are looking at Parliament aghast and wondering why we cannot implement the decision that they made in that historic referendum. I suspect that Members of Parliament, of whatever party, who do not deliver on that, however they justify casting their vote, will not be thanked when it comes to the next time their constituents visit the ballot box.
The instruments ensure that those rural development programmes that are partially funded by the European agricultural fund for rural development, and the maritime and fisheries operational programme, which is partially funded by the European maritime and fisheries fund, continue operating effectively in the United Kingdom following the EU exit. The rural development fund is worth some £430 million a year and the maritime and fisheries fund is worth £32 million a year. The Government have guaranteed that any projects funded from the 2014 to 2020 allocations will be funded for their full lifetime, and I hope that reassures the Committee.
The instruments provide the legal basis to continue making payments to agreement holders, providing certainty for farmers, land managers and fishers, and preserving the current regime for supporting rural businesses, environmental land management and sustainable fisheries, among other things. The hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport raised the progress of the Agriculture Bill and the Fisheries Bills through Parliament. I repeat that I am keen to make progress, but there is, of course, a lot of other business in the House that needs to be cleared.
Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab)
With the shadow Minister’s permission, as a Whip I wish to protest. The Minister says there is a lot of business in the House, but we have missing Bills that, if we were to leave the EU next Friday, would have to have been passed before then. The Agriculture Bill and the Fisheries Bill were not only raised in these SIs, but they were described by the Government and by those in the leave movement as the big new dawn for fisheries and agriculture. Where are they?
Mr Goodwill
Thank you, Mr Owen. Your constraints are welcome, but I will briefly say that the one important piece of business that we need to get over the line in this House is the withdrawal agreement. That is why many other measures are on ice and unable to make progress.
The hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport is absolutely right: there is a jigsaw of statutory instruments, and these are two important pieces that we need to put into place. He asked whether there will be gremlins, and whether mistakes will have been made. I can honestly state that that is not impossible, and if we spot gremlins and mistakes they need to be fixed as soon as possible. Yesterday, I said that we spotted that the European Commission was increasing the de minimis payment level for fishing communities, and we made that correction before the matter came to Committee.[Official Report, 29 March 2019, Vol. 657, c. 6MC.]
The hon. Gentleman talked about consultation. There is no statutory requirement to consult, because no changes are being made to the operation of the schemes. However, we carried out stakeholder engagement separately for the rural development, and maritime and fisheries elements of the SI, and I can go into that in some detail if he wishes.
That engagement targeted stakeholders on the approach of the broad set of common fisheries policy EU exit statutory instruments, which included those related to the European maritime and fisheries fund. It included meetings with the DEFRA-led external advisory group, and other separate meetings with the fishing industry and non-governmental organisations, involving key stakeholders from the fisheries sector, the food industry, and environmental non-governmental bodies.
Additionally, as the hon. Gentleman said, a 10-week consultation was conducted through the fisheries White Paper, which described future fisheries policy as well as the legislative approach taken in these instruments. Stakeholders were broadly supportive of the approach outlined in the White Paper, and did not raise concerns about the way in which funds are being delivered, which might have had a bearing on these two provisions.
Some of the stakeholders who were present in those meetings and engaged with the White Paper had an interest that went wider than England. For example, the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation is very keen to make progress on Brexit, unlike the Scottish National party, and NGOs. DEFRA was also in contact with the devolved Administrations, which confirmed that they are engaging with their own stakeholders about these statutory instruments.
In terms of rural development, on 25 September 2018 DEFRA met the Rural Payments Agency’s industry partnership group to update farming and land management stakeholders on the Government’s plans for EU exit. At that meeting, stakeholders were informed of the plans to make retained EU CAP legislation, and existing domestic CAP regulations, fully operable at the point of EU exit. That will enable DEFRA and the devolved Administrations to continue to deliver ongoing CAP pillar 1 and pillar 2 commitments to the agriculture sector in 2019 and beyond, in the event of a non-negotiated EU exit.
Stakeholders present at that meeting included the Tenant Farmers Association, the Country Land and Business Association, the Farming Community Network, the Institute of Agricultural Secretaries and Administrators, the British Institute of Agricultural Consultants, and the National Farmers Union. A subsequent meeting was held on 26 November 2018 between DEFRA and the Rural Payments Agency to update stakeholders further on legislative progress in preparing for EU exit.
The Welsh Government did not undertake a formal consultation on the statutory instruments, which officials considered to be technical in nature. However, stakeholders in Wales, including farming industry representatives, were invited to a workshop to learn about the approach, and they have been kept informed of progress by the Cabinet Secretary for Energy, Planning and Rural Affairs, and officials at the established EU exit stakeholder roundtable and legislation sub-groups. Chapter 8 of the Welsh Government document for the “Brexit and our land” consultation proposed an orderly exit from the rural development programme. That consultation received more than 12,000 responses, which are still being considered by Welsh Ministers.
The Scottish Government published a consultation in June 2018 entitled “Stability and simplicity”, which invited comments on Scottish Government proposals about dealing with the implications of leaving the common agricultural policy. It explained that the first stage would be to retain EU law in domestic legislation. The consultation closed on 15 August 2018, with 137 responses received. Overall, responders were broadly content for support to continue it in its current form to ensure a period of stability for the rural economy. The Scottish Government have been and continue to be in regular contact with stakeholders in Scotland regarding the implications of leaving the EU, and the effect of the statutory instruments is consistent with the proposal set out in that consultation. Last week, I spoke to Fergus Ewing on the phone, and I look forward to my first face-to-face meeting with him.
Let me turn to some of the other points raised by hon. Members. I was asked about continuity and the responsibilities of the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, which has tabled a separate SI that addresses the remaining funds. I was asked who takes responsibility for the roles currently held by the Commission. As I said in my opening remarks, the relevant authorities will be the Secretary of State in England, Scottish Ministers in Scotland, Welsh Ministers in Wales, and the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs in Northern Ireland. The relevant authority for fisheries is the Secretary of State in England, with the role delivered by the Marine Management Organisation.
There was some talk about how we will fund taking over these roles, but that exposes a degree of misunderstanding because the European Commission does not deliver those projects in the UK, and they are delivered by the UK Government on behalf of the Commission. For example, the environmental schemes were delivered by Natural England and are now delivered by the Rural Payments Agency. There will be no change in the way that happens, and it is similar for many of the fishing schemes.
Luke Pollard
My point was about not the implementation, but the scrutiny and overview. The Commission provides an overview function, which is being removed by this SI. What resources are being given for the overview functions contained in the SI, rather than the implementation?
Mr Goodwill
Farmers and fishermen will understand that scrutiny and checks are carried out not by the European Commission but by my Department, in order to ensure that rules are complied with. That will not change, but we will still have our homework checked nationally by the National Audit Office, for example, which will take on that role, and the MMO and DEFRA will publish a quarterly report on fisheries funding.
I was asked whether there will be any cuts to agricultural funding and what guarantees the Government can give. The EU funds will be replaced—£137.4 million for the remainder of the programme period of the EMFF and between £400 million and £450 million a year from the EAFRD. Those figures depend on the euro-pound exchange rate. The EMFF figure is higher than the figure in the explanatory memorandum. It is a more accurate figure, based on the most recent returns from each of the intermediate bodies. The Treasury has guaranteed funding to cover all European structural and investment fund projects entered into before the end of 2020 for their full lifetime, and I hope the hon. Gentleman takes that reassurance on board.
The Government have pledged to continue to commit cash totalling the funds for farm support until the end of this Parliament, and that includes all funding provided for farm support under the EAFRD. On 10 December 2018, the Government committed to provide £37.2 million of extra funding for the UK seafood sector for projects approved during 2019 and 2020, so as to boost the industry as we become an independent coastal state.
The hon. Gentleman asked whether fisheries will be better or worse off. There will be four schemes after 2020, when the EMFF ends. Those will be comparable to the EMFF, but designed for the UK fishing industry, alongside the devolved Administrations, and that will be detailed in the next spending review. The fisheries White Paper, which was published in 2018, asked the industry for its opinion on future funding and how it wants the industry to be reformed. Our approach was always going to be long term, and it will not change in several months.
I hope I have answered hon. Members’ questions. If they have any specific questions about the detailed financial information and funding—I would not want to mislead the Committee by winging it—I would be more than happy to give them that information. Indeed, it would be great to see the Labour party’s long-term plans for funding agriculture and fisheries. There seems to be a bit of a vacuum, which might need funding before farmers consider how they will cast their vote at the next election.
These statutory instruments are required for the continued operation of rural development programmes and the maritime and fisheries programme, and they will ensure that farmers, land managers and fishers are able to be paid after we leave the EU.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That the Committee has considered the draft European Structural and Investment Funds Common Provisions (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.
Draft European Structural and Investment Funds Common Provisions Rules etc. (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Resolved,
That the Committee has considered the draft European Structural and Investment Funds Common Provisions Rules etc. (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.—(Mr Goodwill.)
Draft State Aid (Agriculture and Fisheries) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Robert Goodwill Excerpts(7 years ago)
General CommitteesRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr Robert Goodwill)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft State Aid (Agriculture and Fisheries) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.
I make my debut, once again, Mr Robertson; the Government are very much in favour of recycling, and here I am.
The regulations are one of a number of affirmative statutory instruments to be considered as the UK leaves the EU, made under the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. The SI makes technical, legal amendments to maintain the effectiveness and continuity of retained EU legislation, so that following our exit from the EU the law will continue to operate effectively. I assure the Committee that the adjustments contain no policy changes, nor will they have any significant impact on businesses or the public.
The instrument refers to specific state aid regulations on agriculture and fisheries. It does not make provision for the broader domestic state aid framework, which is addressed in the State Aid (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. That instrument, laid by the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, passed through the upper House last week. It transfers monitoring and reporting functions from the European Commission to the UK domestic state aid regulator, the Competition and Markets Authority—ably chaired by our former colleague, the now Lord Tyrie—and provides the framework for the instrument we are discussing today. I hope, Mr Robertson, you will agree that wider questions about the new domestic state aid regime are not, therefore, within the scope of the debate. I will endeavour not to be tempted if right hon. and hon. Members raise questions along those lines. The House will have the opportunity to debate the BEIS framework state aid instrument in due course.
The relevant EU regulations covered by the instrument we are discussing fall into three groups. The first consists of two block exemption regulations that currently exempt certain categories of agricultural and fisheries funding from the state aid requirement under articles 107 and 108 of the treaty on the functioning of the European Union: Nos. 702/2014, the agricultural block exemption regulation, and 1388/2014, the fisheries block exemption regulation. With the second group, the amended legislation provides that agricultural and fisheries aid under a certain de minimis threshold does not constitute state aid under agricultural, and fisheries, de minimis regulations, Nos. 1408/2013 and 717/2014 respectively.
Finally, the statutory instrument amends state aid clauses in some of the common agricultural policy regulations, exempting funding provided under those regulations from the state aid requirement under articles 107 and 108 of the treaty on the functioning of the EU, and also ensures the proper operation of those funding arrangements. Those regulations are 1303/2013, the CAP common provisions regulation; 1305/2013, the rural development regulation; 1307/2013, the direct payments regulation; and 808/2014, the implementing regulation under the rural development regulation.
The statutory instrument corrects deficient references throughout the retained agriculture and fisheries state aid regulations to, for example, the Commission, member states and the internal market. For instance, in regulation 5 of the agricultural block exemption regulation, references to “Commission notices” are being replaced with references to “Competition and Markets Authority statements of policy”.
The SI also transfers a number of minor Commission functions to the domestic regulator. For example, regulation 1(4)(a) of the agricultural block exemption regulation provides that when the UK has exceeded its annual state aid budget certain categories of aid are exempted from state aid rules for six months only, unless the Commission extends the period, and the SI gives the Competition and Markets Authority the power to extend that period.
I emphasise that the instrument corrects deficient references in retained EU regulations from day one. We have not made any substantive policy changes. I underline the fact that the legislation ensures that all exemptions continue. As we leave the EU, the amended regulations will ensure that the agriculture and fisheries state aid exemptions are operable in the UK, which will give continuity and greater certainty to businesses across the UK. I therefore commend the instrument to the Committee.
Mr Goodwill
I thank the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport for the constructive way that he has approached this matter. The questions he asked me were precisely those that I asked my officials, to be reassured that nothing is changing.
The hon. Gentleman spoke about the speed and volume of the SIs. I apologise that there is so much legislation that we must transfer from the competence of the European Union so that we can take back control of some of these measures. I can reassure him that there are no missed nuggets. Indeed, one nugget that we did spot was the change that is under way in the European Commission to increase the de minimis fishing limit from €25,000 to €30,000 and we have managed to include that.[Official Report, 29 March 2019, Vol. 657 c. 5MC.]
The hon. Gentleman talked about progress on the Agriculture Bill and the Fisheries Bill. I am also keen to make progress and this SI relates to some of the measures that we could implement through the Agriculture Bill in particular, so that we can deploy taxpayers’ resource to deliver those public goods that we all want to see as a way to continue agricultural support. We are keen to schedule that business and particularly keen, as I discussed earlier, not to lose all the hard work that has been done.
The hon. Gentleman also talked about resources for the CMA. I can reassure him that the CMA has been allocated £20 million for 2019-20 to prepare for EU exit, which includes resources for setting up its new state aid function. That is in addition to the £23.6 million allocated for the financial year 2018-19. The SI heads off potential challenges to the CMA over what could be described as illegal state aid because it now makes it legal state aid. I am talking about, for example, the subsidies that farmers get—the greening schemes and the aid for the fishing industry—and the SI allows for that without its being illegal state aid.
The hon. Gentleman talked about the impact assessment. We did not do one because nothing has changed. All we are doing is transferring responsibilities from the European Commission to the CMA. If we did not pass the measure today, that would change and there would be additional work for the CMA. On rural development, we intend to maintain the aims of the work that is being done. We are not making any changes as we leave the EU. We will maintain the status quo as we leave. The rural development regulations are being rolled over by other SIs.
The hon. Gentleman talked about the EMFF. The Secretary of State announced on 10 December four schemes comparable with the EMFF to support industry from 2021 onwards. The funding quantum will be set following the spending review in 2019.
The hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire is understandably concerned that the measure might be seen as a land grab by the Westminster Government, but if he peruses page 4 of the document he will be reassured to read that article 2B states:
“In relation to Scotland, in respect of areas within devolved competence, the competent authority is the Scottish Ministers”,
and the same will apply to Wales. As somebody who has just finished being a member of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, I share his concerns about the need for a restoration of the devolved Administration in Northern Ireland so that they can make the decisions. Currently the civil service in Northern Ireland—the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs in the case of agricultural policy—is in effect on automatic pilot. It is becoming more and more difficult for it to navigate a way forward, given that the co-ordinates it is using were set when there was an Administration in place.
Martin Docherty-Hughes
I am grateful to the Minister for what he has said, but I ask him again: has his Department discussed the SI with the civil service in Northern Ireland?
Mr Goodwill
Yes. We continue to have close contact with the devolved Administrations, whether they have been democratically founded or whether we have the situation that exists in Northern Ireland. I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that I spoke to Fergus Ewing, who is responsible for this matter in Scotland, and I look forward to having a productive and cordial relationship with Mr Ewing, whom I found to be very positive about what we can do together to deliver not only for Scottish agriculture, but for Scottish fishermen.
I think I have covered the points made.
Question put and agreed to.
Rivers Authorities and Land Drainage Bill
Robert Goodwill ExcerptsFriday 15th March 2019
(7 years ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Rivers Authorities and Land Drainage Bill 2017-19 View all Rivers Authorities and Land Drainage Bill 2017-19 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 11 March 2019 - (11 Mar 2019)
David Warburton
I am grateful for that important intervention. It is important to note that, while the Bill nominally allows for new rivers authorities to be set up, with local support and after consultation, anywhere in the country, there is no particular desire or need for that at the moment, as far as I am aware. That said, the measure is there.
The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr Robert Goodwill)
I am pleased to signify early on that the Government will support my hon. Friend’s Bill.
David Warburton
I am very glad to hear it.
As we experienced just this week with Storm Gareth, which brought high winds and heavy rainfall, we are powerless to control the weather, but that is not so with flooding. Things can be done to reduce the likelihood and the impact of floods. We can and we do help our communities to better manage the risk of flooding of their homes and businesses by constantly assessing the risk and taking strategic action to be better prepared so that when the weather is against us, there is less risk to life, livelihoods and property and recovery is quicker.
The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr Robert Goodwill)
It is good to be back, Madam Deputy Speaker.
It is a pleasure to follow the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Ipswich (Sandy Martin). Let me also record thanks to his colleague, the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard), for all his work during the Committee stage. Able contributions have been made today by many other Members: each and every one of them made a valuable contribution, often citing specific issues in their constituencies. I note the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman) about the wider benefits beyond those applying to rateable beck or river frontage. I also congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome (David Warburton) on pursuing this important Bill. I am pleased to reconfirm that the Government support the Bill and its aims, and it has been welcome to hear that it is supported on both sides of the House. The two measures that it contains fit well with the Government’s ambitious agenda.
As my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome said, many of us have spoken eloquently about the impact of flooding and our experiences. Indeed, in my coastal constituency of Scarborough and Whitby, it is no different. Scarborough has experienced multiple floods in recent years, and sometimes we feel that we are being attacked from all sides. Our sea front is subject to tidal flooding, as we saw in 2013 and 2017, and again just a year ago, last March. If that is not enough, the town has also seen its fair share of heavy rainfall, frequently causing flash flooding and sometimes requiring the rescue of several motorists. Of course, we all remember the Boxing day floods of 2015, when Scarborough also suffered. If only that had been the last time: in August 2017, 70 properties suffered flooding which also damaged local infrastructure and highways.
Whitby and the surrounding area have not escaped either. Sadly, Whitby has a long history of tidal flooding, with records going back to the 1800s, and it still occurs relatively frequently. A December 2013 storm surge caused major disruption, with flooding of major properties along and near Church Street. Thankfully, the Church Street flood alleviation scheme currently being planned by Scarborough Borough Council will provide protection to 54 residential properties and eight businesses, and I know similar schemes are being delivered up and down the country. So I recognise what my hon. Friends have said and share their concerns not just because of the experiences in my own constituency. The 2015-16 storms brought a volume of water that overwhelmed the pumping station and Foss barrier in York, resulting in severe flooding to the residents and businesses of that wonderful city on Boxing day, and the collapse of Tadcaster bridge just a few days later, effectively cutting that town in half.
I was deeply honoured to be appointed as the flood envoy for Yorkshire in the aftermath and saw at first hand the destruction and devastation experienced by so many people. I am proud of the way those communities came together—as did those in Somerset—to support each other through the recovery and to identify and deliver solutions through, for example, the Calderdale flood action plan. I am also proud of any small part I played in supporting them through this most awful of times by ensuring their voices were heard at the very heart of government. Members will therefore not be surprised to know that I completely agree with the sentiments expressed by my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome: the effect of flooding is devastating, both physically and mentally, both on people and in terms of the wider consequences for communities, businesses and the environment. Such impacts can also last a long time after the water has receded to a more normal level.
Rainfall brings many benefits to our green and pleasant land, but too much water in the wrong place is not welcome. We cannot stop natural hazards: just this week we have seen Storm Gareth bringing strong winds and heavy rain and flood warnings to much of our country, and we will continue to be susceptible but need to try to reduce or manage the damage flooding can wreak. We can all take steps to mitigate the risk and the impact. To that end, the Government are continuing to invest a record £2.7 billion in better protecting communities across England, with some 1,500 new flood defence schemes being put in place between 2015 and 2021, as well as significant investment to maintain existing flood management structures.
There is also action that communities and individuals can take to become more flood aware, including registering for flood warnings and alerts, and taking advice from the Environment Agency and local authorities. The Government are also keen to empower communities to take further action at a local level and have committed to bringing the public, private and third sectors together to work with communities and individuals to reduce the risk of harm from environmental hazards, enabling communities to help themselves, which is why we are here today.
This Bill will, once enacted, enable communities to do just that if they decide to take, and to fund, local action so as to be better protected. This could be through the creation of rivers authorities, as we have heard, or through the creation of a new, or expansion of an existing, internal drainage board. While there is currently only one rivers authority, in Somerset, there are 112 internal drainage boards, covering 10% of England, and many of us are aware of the important work that they do on flood risk management and water management more generally.
I assure the House that back up north we are no strangers to the benefits of effective land drainage and water management. If you choose to visit us, Madam Deputy Speaker, in the beautiful county of Yorkshire, you will see a drainage scheme that was put in place over two centuries ago, the Derwent sea cut, which history tells us was the brainchild of local businessmen and landowners, constructed at least in part by prisoners of the Napoleonic wars—a precursor, I suggest, of the type of scheme we heard about in Banbury, although I assume it had no ready access to French prisoners.
That proud history of managing water flows to alleviate flooding and create rich agricultural land continues today via our internal drainage boards. I farm on land that sits within the internal drainage district managed by the Foss internal drainage board, so I have direct personal and professional experience of the outstanding work these bodies can do. That is just one of the reasons I welcome this Bill today—so that other areas that need and want to can benefit from locally funded bodies, with local expertise to support flood risk management, be that an internal drainage board or indeed a rivers authority.
Following Royal Assent to the Bill, the Government will take the necessary steps to develop and publish our national framework for rivers authorities, and will engage with interested parties in doing so. This will enable local proposals to be developed and local consultations to be held. The Government will also pursue the regulations for the internal drainage boards through the affirmative procedure. Again, this will enable proposals to be developed and local consultations to be held. As I mentioned earlier, the Government fully support this Bill and hope it will now make a swift passage through the other place without amendment.
Agriculture and Fisheries Council, March 2019
Robert Goodwill Excerpts(7 years ago)
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The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr Robert Goodwill)
The Agriculture and Fisheries Council takes place in Brussels on 18 March.
As the provisional agenda stands, the primary focus for agriculture will be on the post-2020 common agricultural policy (CAP) reform package. Ministers will exchange views on the regulation concerning CAP strategic plans, the horizontal regulation, and the regulation on the common market organisation (CMO) of agriculture products.
Council will also hold an exchange of views on bioeconomy.
There are currently three items scheduled for discussion under “any other business”:
information from the Netherlands delegation on the outcome of the congress “CAP Strategic Plans —Exploring Eco-Climate Schemes” (Leeuwarden, 6 to 8 February 2019),
information from the Netherlands delegation on the decision by the technical board of appeals of the European patent office regarding the possibility to patent the results of classical plant breeding,
information from the Commission on the outcome of the workshops organised by the Commission’s task force on water and agriculture (Sore, 27 November 2018 and Bucharest, 5 and 6 February 2019).
Although not confirmed, we expect additional items to be added to the agenda under “any other business”:
information from the Slovenian delegation on small-scale coastal fisheries and the European maritime and fisheries fund,
information from the Polish delegation on the meat market situation.
[HCWS1409]
Leaving the EU: Fishing
Robert Goodwill Excerpts(7 years ago)
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Each debate is chaired by an MP from the Panel of Chairs, rather than the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. A Government Minister will give the final speech, and no votes may be called on the debate topic.
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Melanie Onn
My right hon. Friend raises a serious issue. There must be equitable distribution of funds. If there is a genuine desire to support the industry, the infrastructure and the facilities must be there. To exclude one at the expense of another is not looking to the future. I hope that the Minister will take the opportunity to respond to my right hon. Friend’s point in his closing comments.
The additional funding is of course welcome; nobody is going to say no to additional funding, but how it will be shared and distributed and where the priorities will lie are still a concern. When it comes to the spending, will it go to the company that runs the dock facilities, which will have all the responsibility of dealing with the customs checks and perhaps an increase in activity? If Dover is unable to cope, perhaps we will see an increase in freight coming up to our port. What will that mean for the fish stocks and for the auction site? Will it get a share of it? That is not clear. I would be interested to know whether the Minister has any thoughts on that, too.
The concerns are clearly not felt by the processing sector alone. According to the UK Seafood Industry Alliance, we export most of what we catch and we import most of what we eat, with 90% of the cod consumed in the UK coming from outside our borders, and species such as nephrops, which are quite unfamiliar to UK dinner tables, being among our most valuable seafood exports. If we leave without reciprocal and favourable trade arrangements with major importers and exporters, we could easily end up in a situation in which fishermen struggle to make vital profits on export species that are extremely valuable in foreign markets, while we see the cod and haddock in our chippies and supermarkets skyrocket in price as tariffs are slapped on our imports.
The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr Robert Goodwill)
Customers may not recognise nephrops, but they will certainly know what Whitby scampi or Young’s scampi look like.
Melanie Onn
Yes. The Minister makes a key point. Perhaps there is less familiarity with some of the other species that we export, and export very valuably, to the EU markets.
Let me return to the point about tariffs, which we touched on. There was the publication this morning that referred to 11.9% on protected lines. That is the most preferred nation rate. It is what, in the event of no deal, we will be trading on. Can the Minister explain that in greater detail? The information came out only this morning. I have gone to various sources, including the Library, to try to get more detail about exactly which species will be affected and how, but perhaps the Minister can put that on the record here today. If he cannot do so, will there be a ministerial written statement to explain the implications of the tariffs and what they mean for the UK sector?
The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr Robert Goodwill)
Thank you very much for that, Mr Stringer, and I am grateful to the hon. Member for Greater Grimsby (Melanie Onn), who is my relatively near neighbour on the other side of the Humber, for securing this important debate.
As a former shipping Minister, I know Grimsby very well. Indeed, I recall that, years ago, when I first entered Parliament, there was the annual fishing debate, when Austin Mitchell and I would often engage in speeches. By the way, I am very pleased to know that he is still alive, but he will be very pleased when the UK finally leaves the European Union, as will the many people in Greater Grimsby who voted to leave.
I begin my first debate as fisheries Minister by paying tribute to our fishermen, who regularly risk their lives to provide healthy, sustainable and nutritious food in what is still one of the most dangerous jobs in this country. My thoughts are with the fishermen who have suffered loss and injury and with their families, and I thank those in the rescue services for their bravery and dedication. Before I turn to the notes I have prepared, I will comment on some of the points that have been made during the debate, which are probably more important. I particularly want to address the hon. Lady’s point about tariffs, and the situation in Northern Ireland.
Leaving the EU with a negotiated deal remains the best outcome for the UK, and I am disappointed that so many people in this room, particularly those on the Opposition Benches, did not vote last night to leave the European Union on 29 March. Doing so would have moved us on from many of the concerns that Members expressed about a no-deal Brexit.
Liz Saville Roberts
I know that many fishermen are watching this debate. Will the Minister tell fishermen in Wales who export processed whelks to South Korea what their future will be under the withdrawal agreement? I emphasise to the Minister that the highest percentage of small vessels in the United Kingdom are Welsh vessels. Ninety per cent. of Welsh vessels are under 10 metres, and many of their owners make their money out of this sort of industry. The withdrawal agreement could be devastating for them—I declare an interest, because my daughter is the part owner of exactly one of those vessels. Will the Minister commit to providing financial support to fishermen who trade under non-EU free trade agreements in this current situation of uncertainty?
Mr Goodwill
South Korea, as we know, is not in the European Union, and therefore Brexit will not have an impact on that industry. However, the hon. Lady may rest assured that we are planning for all scenarios, as any responsible Government would, including leaving without a deal.
Today, the Government have published information about essential policies that would need to be in place if the UK were to leave the EU without a deal on 29 March. In that scenario, the Government would implement a temporary tariff regime that would apply for 12 months. Under that regime, the majority of imports would be tariff free, including the majority of fish imports. There would be exceptions for some fish products, primarily tuna and warm-water shrimps and prawns. For those products, preferential access to the UK market is important for developing countries.
In a no-deal scenario, the Government are committed to entering into urgent discussions with the EU, including Ireland, to jointly agree long-term measures to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland. On a temporary basis, the Government would not introduce any new checks or controls on goods crossing from Ireland to Northern Ireland. However, fish from outside the EU would need to enter Northern Ireland through a designated entry point.
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)
In recent weeks, I have been corresponding with Iceland’s ambassador to the UK, who is particularly concerned about whether the tariff advantages that Iceland receives under EEA arrangements will continue. Can the Minister confirm that that will be the case?
Mr Goodwill
I think I will be spending quite a lot of time in Oslo, Reykjavik and the Faroe Islands, which will be our new allies in this area, particularly at the annual Fisheries Council. We will attend those negotiations as an independent coastal state like Norway, making those important decisions.
The hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard), the Opposition spokesman, talked about effort-based regimes. The points I made came at the height of the discard crisis, when there was a particularly emotive story on local BBC television about perfectly good fish being thrown into the sea because the fishers had found some larger-quota fish. We are moving into a new era, and the landing obligation solves many of the problems that the quotas created, but our White Paper noted that effort-based regimes attract mixed views. We may consider a pilot, but we need to ensure that fishing is sustainable and that we do not encourage a race to fish.
The right hon. Member for Tynemouth (Sir Alan Campbell) made a point about investment in ports; as a former ports Minister, I refute his allegations. Ports up and down the country, including in the north-east—private ports, trust ports such as the one in Newcastle, and local authority ports—are making massive investments. In Whitby, £7.6 million is being invested in pier repairs. Sirius Minerals is investing massive amounts of money as part of a £4 billion project to deliver polyhalite fertiliser through the port of Tees, using many of the facilities that British Steel used. On 26 February this year, Hartlepool council announced a big investment development order through which many opportunities will come to Hartlepool, including offshore wind.
My hon. Friend the Member for Banff and Buchan (David Duguid) repeated his invitation to visit Peterhead, which I hope to do very soon.
Kirstene Hair (Angus) (Con)
I want to correct the record. Opposition Members said that there had been no investment in the fishing industry, but last year’s UK Government Budget delivered millions in technology and methodology funding. That will ensure that we not only regain control of our waters when we leave the CFP, but give our fishermen the chance to innovate within the industry.
Mr Goodwill
If anyone wants evidence of investment and confidence in the Scottish fishing industry, they should visit Parkol Marine Engineering in Whitby, which builds fishing boats. It has an order book stretching almost into the middle of next decade, with Scottish fishermen from Shetland and elsewhere buying state-of-the-art boats because of the confidence they have in the fishing industry. Massive investment has gone into Fraserburgh and Peterhead, and I have also heard of amazing plans for future investment in Peterhead’s fishing industry.
David Duguid
I hope the Minister will forgive me for potentially being helpful to Scottish National party Members, but does he agree with the Scottish Government’s report from last summer, which stated that Brexit could generate up to £540 million for the fishing industry and 5,000 jobs?
Mr Goodwill
That is exactly right. It is nice to hear some optimism from the Government Benches, in stark contrast to the SNP, which is fast becoming a one-trick pony. It has had one referendum, which it lost, but it seems to think that the answer to everything is an independent Scotland. The people of Scotland made their view quite clear in that referendum, and the SNP should respect it, in the same way that the people of the United Kingdom respect the result of the referendum on leaving the European Union.
It is a fact that the majority of people working in the fishing industry voted to leave, and many did so because those in that industry who survived the common fisheries policy still bear its scars. It is also true that we have asymmetric access to the market: an average of 760,000 tonnes of fish was caught by foreign EU vessels in our waters between 2012 and 2014, compared with only 90,000 tonnes the other way around.
Mrs Sheryll Murray
Does the Minister agree that it is not just UK fishing businesses that will benefit from increased catches, but the UK Exchequer?
Mr Goodwill
My hon. Friend makes a good point. We touched briefly on visas, and as a former immigration Minister I know about the problems with Filipinos working on vessels because of the way the 12-mile limit works, particularly in Ulster and the west of Scotland. I am sure that the new Immigration Minister will have conversations with right hon. and hon. Members on that topic. Of course, as my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Mrs Murray) said, we need to get young blood into the industry. We need to train our own people, and have newer ships in places such as Portavogie.
I know of the recent concerns about the Irish suspension of the voisinage agreement, which has been mentioned, and the impoundment of two Ulster boats. That was the result of a legal challenge, not of any action by the Irish Government; I am pleased that the Irish Government have committed to resolving that issue, and we will monitor any moves closely. When I was a transport Minister in the European Council, Mr Varadkar was my opposite number. I know that he is a man of great integrity, and we should take the Irish Government at their word that they are going to fix that problem.
I understand the concerns that have been raised about pulse trawling. The statutory instrument laid before the House on 13 January will provide continuity for the fishing industry by ensuring that EU law on technical conservation is operable in the UK. That will mean that vessels will no longer be able to conduct pulse trawling in UK waters.
I had better allow the hon. Lady who secured the debate to make a few concluding points. If I have not covered every point, I will be happy to write to right hon. and hon. Members.
Modern Farming and the Environment
Robert Goodwill Excerpts(7 years ago)
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The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr Robert Goodwill)
Thank you very much, Mr Evans. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Gordon (Colin Clark) for calling this important debate, and I recognise his work on the red meat levy on behalf of Scottish farmers. He began his speech by talking about “friends of the earth”, and I confess that, as is recorded in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, I too am a friend of the earth. I had the pleasure of serving with my hon. Friend on the Agriculture Bill Committee, and he consistently championed the needs of Scottish farmers and the link between farming, food production and the environment.
I, too, would like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to my predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice). Not only did he serve the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs so expertly for five years, but his vision has ensured that we are now taking up all the opportunities provided to us by leaving the inflexible common agricultural policy and the frustrating common fisheries policy. His will be a hard act to follow. It now falls to me to take the helm and guide the Bills underpinning our ambitious future policies through to Royal Assent.
My hon. Friend the Member for Gordon talked about how we should get more new entrants into the industry. It is important that we get new young blood in, bringing with it innovation and energy. Sadly, I know from my own constituency that many farmers’ sons and daughters are not taking over family holdings, so we need to consider new ways of getting new entrants in. It was interesting to see on this week’s “Countryfile” new models of tenancies being tried out to get young people into the industry. The Agriculture Bill will certainly look for opportunities to bring new blood and diversity to the industry.
A number of Members referred to the concerns about the multi-annual settlements. Farming needs a sustainable financial model, and I am happy to agree with those who support the idea of a multi-annual settlement for the industry. It is a manifesto commitment that guarantees the same cash total until 2022—indeed, our farmers have more certainty than farmers in the EU. I welcome the efforts that have already been made by DEFRA, which is working closely with the Treasury on arrangements for future funding. We are committed to offering multi-annual contracts to farmers under the environmental land management scheme for the delivery of public goods.
My hon. Friend the Member for Gordon also mentioned gene editing. As somebody who studied for a degree in agriculture a whole generation ago, when gene editing and some of the more advanced methods of breeding crops were not known, I put on record that the Government disagree with the European Court of Justice’s ruling on gene editing. We argued that gene-edited organisms should not be subject to GM regulations if the changes to their DNA could have occurred naturally or through traditional breeding methods. That remains our view, but the Court has decided otherwise, and its judgment is binding on the UK. We will be considering our future approach to regulation in the context of negotiations about the UK’s future relationship with the EU.
We recognise the potential for advanced breeding techniques such as gene editing to make farming more productive and sustainable. We want to support innovation in that area, and ensure that any regulation is science-based and proportionate. We want the UK to be a leading player in developing the possible applications of new technologies, such as gene editing, building on the excellence of our science research base and our plant breeding sector. Ultimately, we want our farmers to have the best access to the tools available, so that they can remain competitive and boost productivity. The available evidence about the impact of current GM crops is variable, but it indicates that such crops have delivered both economic and environmental benefits. For example, a meta-analysis published in 2014 concluded that, on average, the adoption of GM crops has increased yields by 22%, increased profits by 68% and reduced pesticide use by 32%.
Deidre Brock
Is the Minister therefore confirming that he supports the introduction of GM crops in England? Can he clarify his personal views on GM crops?
Mr Goodwill
At the current time, as a member state of the European Union, we must comply with its legislation. However, whatever decisions we make in the future must be based on the best available scientific evidence.
[Sir Gary Streeter in the Chair]
My hon. Friend the Member for Gordon raised the question of whether food is a public good. Food is a commercial good, and the prime purpose of British agriculture is to produce good food, fibre and fuel. Recognising that those products are integral to UK agriculture should be front and centre in all our policies. He also mentioned the displacement of CO2. I have previously been involved with that topic as a Member of the European Parliament, when energy-intensive industries such as the metallurgical industry were being exported to countries with environmental standards that were not as good as ours.
I agreed with the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) more than I had thought I would when she got to her feet. Having served on the Environmental Audit Committee with her, I know that her views are to be taken seriously. Organic farming has a part to play. Under our new agricultural regime, we may look at how we can encourage farmers to innovate, and organic farming is one of those innovations. However, organic production should be demand-led, because we do not want to create surpluses of organic food that cause a collapse in the market and make the farms that produce such food un-economic.
The hon. Lady also talked about wildflower margins. As part of a mid-tier scheme on my farm, we are planting those margins, which are certainly a public good. The Government are in the process of designing an environmental land management system to ensure that farmers are rewarded for the environmental benefits they deliver, such as creating habitats for wildlife. Decisions about how public goods such as biodiversity, clean air and water are delivered will be in the hands of farmers and land managers, who may choose, for example, to lower their pesticide use through integrated pesticide management. We will pay for the public benefits that they deliver.
A number of Members, including the hon. Member for Bristol East, talked about improving soil. The question of how we increase the organic matter in soil is important. Indeed, my hon. Friend the Member for Gordon talked about minimum tillage, and the chemicals needed to ensure that we can engage in minimum tillage contribute to the amount of carbon we can store in our soils. Mixed farming, including livestock production, is particularly important, as manures are a vital source of plant nutrients and improve the structure and heart of our soils. That means keeping livestock, and ruminants in particular, as they are the only way in which we can utilise some of our upland soil and areas that are not suitable for intensive cereal or crop production as upland pastures.
My hon. Friend the Member for Taunton Deane (Rebecca Pow) is a champion of farmers and the rural environment, and she is right that soil is a public good. Some 300 million tonnes of carbon are stored in our upland peat areas. My hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) chairs the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, to which I have given evidence before, but I look forward to appearing before him again. My hon. Friend the Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Bill Grant) represents a great farming area. When I was studying agriculture at university, we went on a field trip to Ayrshire, and I am very jealous of its mild climate, brought to it by the gulf stream. It is clear that food production and the delivery of environmental objectives are not mutually exclusive; there is a synergism between those two goals, and we need to deliver them in parallel.
My hon. Friend the Member for Banff and Buchan (David Duguid) asked whether the pursuit of trade deals around the world will jeopardise our high standards, as did the Labour Front-Bench representative, the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard). I am clear that we will not lower our standards. Indeed, our very high standards and high-quality produce give those countries with which we engage in trade deals a lot to worry about. We will have a great opportunity to market that produce around the world, as is already the case for good products such as Scotch whisky.
Neil Parish
I am delighted to hear the new Minister’s comments. Does he support the amendments to the Agriculture Bill that would maintain high standards for imported food, so that we do not import lower standard food through future trade deals?
Mr Goodwill
I hear what my hon. Friend says, and I will be looking at those amendments line by line—who knows, there may even be Government amendments tabled that will achieve many of those objectives. I was a member of that Bill Committee, so hon. Members can look at what I said at the time. I will aim to be consistent with what I said.
The hon. Member for Edinburgh North and Leith (Deidre Brock) talked about the intra-UK allocation of domestic support. On 16 October 2018, the Government announced a review of intra-UK allocation of domestic farm support funding that will run until the end of this Parliament, which will be in 2022—I hope. The review aims to ensure that all parts of the UK are treated fairly, and that individual circumstances are taken into account. Lord Bew will chair the review, supported by a panel drawn from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The review will look into intra-UK farm support allocations between 2020 and the end of this Parliament, in line with our manifesto commitment.
I thank the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport for welcoming me, and I welcome him in return. He actually talked a lot of sense—indeed, the points he made were an oasis of sanity within Labour policy. I am confident that we can work together constructively to deliver a successful Brexit. If he really wants to help me with this, the first thing he can do is join me in the Lobby tonight, to ensure that we deliver a successful Brexit. The hon. Gentleman also mentioned forestry, and I look forward to working with Sir William Worsley, who has been appointed as the Government’s forestry champion. He is one of my near neighbours in North Yorkshire, so I have visited him there and know that he has an amazing tale to tell.
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Gordon for securing the debate, and all those present for their contributions. The UK is a global leader in environmental management and scientific breakthroughs, including earth observations, sensors, big data, artificial intelligence and robotics. The agriculture sector can be transformed when we apply those strengths alongside our excellent reputation for producing food. The Government are committed to delivering a modern, tech-savvy and sustainable farming sector in England, with the protection of the environment at its core. The Agriculture Bill is paving the way for that shift, and I look forward to sharing further information and engaging with colleagues about our future policies in due course.
Draft Plant Protection Products (Miscellaneous amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Draft Pesticides (Maximum Residue Levels) (Amendment Etc.) Regulations 2019
Robert Goodwill Excerpts(7 years, 1 month ago)
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Mr Robert Goodwill (Scarborough and Whitby) (Con)
I will make one point very briefly. May I ask the Minister, when he sums up, to give an assurance that we will truly have an independent plant protection products regime in the United Kingdom, and that it will not be the case that if, for example, the European Union bans a product, perhaps because of a political campaign rather than because of scientific evidence, or because of misapplication of the precautionary principle, that we will be forced to follow suit? Would that apply to withdrawal periods for pesticides? He talked about maximum residue levels, which are determined in practice by the withdrawal period. It may be that we have different climatic conditions in the UK whereby we could apply different withdrawal periods to achieve the same safe residue level.
Agriculture Bill (Thirteenth sitting)
Robert Goodwill Excerpts(7 years, 4 months ago)
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Dr Drew
I am minded to support the hon. Lady on this, although we have tabled our own new clause 23. This is at the core of the Bill. Although we are talking about agriculture, we cannot exclude trade from that. We—I mean the great “we”, because no organisation that has commented on the Bill is not of a similar mind—need to know what guarantees there are that the animal welfare, environmental and food-quality standards that British agriculture prides itself on will not be undermined by a race to the bottom, and that we will not take on some mad trade deals to try to dig the UK out of its current dilemma of what it does if it shuts the door on the EU. This is very important.
We have reached a turning point in our debate on the Bill. We hope the Government will get the message, from not just the Opposition but the organisations that have commented on the Bill, many of which will have spoken to the Minister. They want security and the knowledge that there will be no attempt to undermine the standards that have been put in place over generations for British agriculture and the environment. Greener UK, which has been largely supportive of the Government’s approach, sees this as one of the major dividing lines. It wants new clause 23 or new clause 12 in the name of the hon. Member for Edinburgh North and Leith.
We can argue about the definitions—we think that our new clause is slightly more foolproof, but we will listen to the hon. Lady and my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol East, who will hopefully get the opportunity to speak to new clause 14. This issue is absolutely crucial to the way the Bill will be received in not just this country but the wider world. We have to send the wider world the message that this Bill rules out importing cheaper, poor-quality food.
I know there is a degree of disunity in the Government. The Secretary of State for International Trade has been going to all sorts of places, but I challenge him to name one place outside the EU—where he has not been—whose food standards are equal to the UK’s and the EU’s. The reality is that there are not any. Other countries are able to produce cheaper food because they undermine labour standards, sadly mistreat the animals and use all sorts of other methods.
Mr Robert Goodwill (Scarborough and Whitby) (Con)
The hon. Gentleman is making some very valid points, but is it not the case that currently, in the EU, we are unable to ban the import of foie gras or veal produced under systems that are illegal in this country? We could improve animal welfare standards by disentangling ourselves from the single market with Europe.
Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Wilson. I rise to speak very much in the spirit with which the hon. Member for Bristol East finished her remarks. She is absolutely right to have identified the cross-party interest in and concern about these issues.
Since the British people made the decision to leave the European Union, I have always said during my meetings with the National Farmers Union and farmers in my constituency that, as important as this Bill will be, the most pressing issue is probably the one raised by the hon. Member for Bristol East in relation to the new clauses. The Bill does important work: it is trying to sculpt and scope a framework of support, and triggers for that support, for UK agriculture. We all want that to be a success, we all understand the importance of the sector to our national economy, and we all want to see it flourish. We therefore understand the importance of the Bill.
We also understand entirely, from remarks made by my hon. Friend the Minister, that in many respects this is a skeleton Bill, or a Christmas tree Bill, upon which certain things will hang and from which future policies and initiatives will flow. I think that we have to be incredibly careful. I hope that we will be able to enter into trade agreements, because they will be good for UK plc, but we should not throw the baby out with the bathwater in their pursuit. We should not see a lowering of our standards in certain areas, particularly within the food sector. I have always had a concern that, for some in British politics, the pursuit of the “Brexit dividend”—to give it a handy moniker—could most readily manifest itself in the price of foodstuffs.
On several occasions I have heard my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset, as the hon. Lady for Bristol East referenced, talk about the lowering of food prices in the shopping basket, and likewise with shoes and clothing, although I appreciate that they are not part of the Bill. He may very well be right. I always point out that we are spending the lowest percentage of our household income on food than at any time in our history, so it is hard to see how food could become very much cheaper in real terms.
However, my concern is about the next step of the scenario. My concern has always resided on this point: if individual trade deals came back to this House to be voted upon in an affirmative way, whether through a statutory instrument or on the Floor of the House, this issue could be part of the checklist to establish whether one would be minded to support it. However, it looks as if trade agreements will not be subject to a vote in the House, so we would be wise to include in the Bill this precautionary principle—this little check—to provide comfort to consumers, who need as much information as possible. I do not believe in the sort of free market in which any old rubbish is put on the supermarket shelves and then people are allowed to make an informed decision. We have to have some standards so that people can have general confidence in the product they are purchasing, irrespective of the price that happens to have been set. There needs to be some underpinning and some general benchmark of standards.
On the “Brexit dividend”, I have always put it to my colleagues in this way: were trade agreements to be entered into that saw, as part of some spirit of reciprocity, new markets opened to what we might call the sexier sides of our economy—finance, IT, insurance, pharmaceutical and the like—the quid pro quo trade-off will be access to our large and growing consumer market, hungry for food, if the Committee will forgive the pun. We would find ourselves swamped with cheap imports, raised to all sorts of standards. Some may be higher than ours, which would be great. Some may be the same, which would be perfect. I think that we would all be keen to resist anything that was lower, for example in relation to chemical applications or animal welfare issues—I see those as equally important.
However, I have often made the point that those cheap imports would remain cheap only while a robust domestic production market formed a competitive market and challenge. I made that point on Second Reading, as did other colleagues. My fear, my hunch and my prediction would be that, as a result of a swamping of overly cheap imports—priced cheaply because the standards are lower and therefore the costs of production are less—that would see a rapid choking off of our domestic production market, either to the point of being barely recognisable, or to be non-existent.
Either of those scenarios could result in a situation whereby those who had distorted our food pricing market would then ride the crest of a non-competitive wave because domestic production would have diminished to a point at which it really only deals with the niche, farmers’ market type of market, but not large-scale domestic production. Having had two or three years of cheap prices, we would suddenly find prices going in an upward trajectory on a very fast escalator. It would be faster plus, because not only would they want to recoup the money for products sold cheaply then, but they would also want desperately to claw back the under-pricing that they had triggered as importers to our country—or exporters, depending which end of the telescope we care to look through—and regain that lost revenue, because they had deliberately distorted the market in order to choke off domestic competition.
I entirely take the point made by the hon. Member for Bristol East that the bona fides on this issue of my hon. Friend the Minister and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State are beyond challenge. They have been absolutely and abundantly clear. If I could preserve my right hon. and hon. Friends in some sort of political aspic and presume that they would always be in office—I am not sure whether they would find that an attractive proposition—we could all take a step back and breathe a little more easily. We all know that legislation cannot bind our heirs and successors because it is subject to amendment by future Parliaments, but we should at least be setting some definitive benchmarks now. On something as important as this, it is in the Bill—although not necessarily in the wording of these new clauses—that we need to put down those important markers. Would it not be the most frustrating waste of the Committee’s time to have spent it talking about the importance of a sector and seeking to build a cross-party coalition in its support and furtherance, only to find all our work and good efforts coming to nought as a result of an overly laissez-faire approach to trading issues?
Before my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South has some sort of apoplectic fit, I assure him that, at this stage—because I am very conscious that our hon. Friend the Minister will need to go back and talk to colleagues—if the amendments are pushed to a vote, I will not support them, because further discussion is needed. I give my hon. Friend the Whip that assurance today, but I am afraid that I cannot give the same cast-iron guarantee on Report unless we see some movement on this.
I do not believe that I am alone. I noticed the sharp inhalation of breath by the hon. Member for Bristol West, in a theatrical, pantomime gesture. I hope that my hon. Friends on the Front Bench know that I have never rebelled—I have never voted against Her Majesty’s Government—and I hope that I do not have to. However, I think that the hon. Member for Bristol East was absolutely right that there is a broad coalition of interest in this on the Floor of the House. Whether Members come from a public health aspect or a fiercely pro-agricultural aspect, or whether they are concerned about better shaping and sculpting the post-Brexit environment, I am not sure.
Mr Goodwill
My hon. Friend makes some very valid points. Does he agree that adequate labelling is also part of this? For example, a lot of processed chicken comes in from Thailand and Brazil, but consumers are often not aware because it comes as part of a product. Does he agree that part of the solution to this problem is better labelling, so that people know what they are buying?
Simon Hoare
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. At the appropriate time there needs to be a significant and radical overhaul of the red tractor. There needs to be much clearer labelling and information. However, information itself can be a bit of a blunt instrument. People need to know how to interpret and understand the information put in front of them. I can read a manual on how to wire a plug 17 times but I will still not understand how to do it. However, the information is there. I do not actually know how to rewire a plug. That is why candle consumption in the Hoare household is very high.
Jenny Chapman
I do know how to wire a plug; that is the first thing I want to say. I add my voice to this because we need to hammer home to the Minister the level and extent of the concern across the parties on this issue. I do not know whether my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol East wishes to press the clause to a vote today or whether there might be opportunities to express the view of parliamentarians in future stages of the Bill, but the Government need to take the hint provided by the excellent speech by the hon. Member for North Dorset, which put the point across incredibly well. It might be a good idea for the Government to come back with their own proposition at a later stage, perhaps in the other place, and propose something that we can all support.
This matter is of such great concern and importance because it is all happening in the context of the withdrawal agreement that we had sight of last week, which is unclear about the future of these kinds of standards, either in the backstop arrangement or in the political declaration about the future relationship. There is a huge row going on about that outside this Committee, so we do not need to go into it all here, but suffice it to say that the agreement is incredibly vague and non-specific about how the UK’s future standards and regulations on these issues would look. That is something that we are unhappy about anyway, but it is particularly important when we look at the issues that we are considering. The hon. Member for North Dorset put it well when he said that the impact may not be felt straightaway but that the erosion of the industry could be seen over time. We have spent so much time in Committee discussing how to protect, enhance, sustain and grow that industry so it will continue to be the best in the world, and it would be a tragedy to see it diminish because we did not have the foresight to put these safeguards in place.
In a way, I am reminded of what has happened to the high street. In not that long a time, we have seen the withdrawal of the vibrancy of our high streets, and it will be very difficult to get that back. Exactly the same thing could happen to our agricultural industries. As a generation of politicians, we would never be forgiven for that.
Obviously, we import food from the US now, but we do it carefully within a set of rules and we are mindful of the standards of what we import, so everybody knows that they can buy food that has been imported from the US with confidence and that it complies with the standards that we expect in this country. That needs to be the case in the future too. I think there would be widespread public support for that to happen in the Bill, and if it does not, I am not sure where in law that provision would be placed, particularly if we were to leave without a deal. I am pretty confident that we are not going to do that, actually, because I do not think the Government would take us down that catastrophic path, but we are here to deal with things that might happen as well as things that we expect to happen.
Mr Goodwill
Surely if the hon. Lady is keen for us to leave with a deal, her party should vote for the deal before us.
George Eustice
There is a very good reason for having the thorough process outlined by the Department for International Trade that I am describing to the hon. Gentleman.
Mr Goodwill
There has been much talk about trade deals in terms of what others might send us, but does the Minister not agree that trade is a two-way process? If, as he suggested, the Americans are becoming much more discerning in the quality of the products they buy, there are great opportunities to export products such as Wensleydale cheese or British beef to these new markets.
George Eustice
That is a very important point. We are working at the moment to try to get access for British beef to the United States because it is a premium product and their beef tends to be lower grade. There is also a good market for British dairy products, particularly our famous cheeses, in the United States where they largely have a standard cheddar that is not particularly good. There is a market for those. There are offensive opportunities in some of these trade deals, which we should always bear in mind.