Post-October Environment Council
Kwasi Kwarteng Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth (Kwasi Kwarteng)
My noble Friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Minister for Climate Change, Lord Duncan of Springbank has today made the following statement:
I attended the EU Environment Council on 4 October in Luxembourg. Roseanna Cunningham, Scottish Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform, also attended. I wish to update the House on the matters discussed.
UNFCCC COP25 preparations - adoption of conclusions
The presidency invited member states to discuss and adopt conclusions on the 25th session of the conference of the parties (COP25) to the United Nations framework convention on climate change (UNFCCC). The presidency set out four objectives for COP25: (1) complete work on the implementation guidelines of Article 6 of the Paris Agreement on “co-operative approaches”, including the international trade of emissions reductions; (2) complete the second review of the Warsaw international mechanism for loss and damage; (3) complete the review of the Lima work programme on gender; and (4) advance technical work under the enhanced transparency framework.
All member states intervened. A grouping of ambitious member states, including the UK, called for the conclusions to state that the EU will “enhance” its nationally determined contribution (NDC -2030 emissions reduction target under the Paris Agreement), while a grouping of other member states supported softer language that the EU would “communicate” or “update” its NDC.
The UK intervened to support the inclusion of a reference to the intergovernmental panel on climate change (IPCC) special report on the impacts of global warming of 1.5 °C and ambitious language calling on all parties to the Paris Agreement to enhance their NDCs by February 2020. The UK stressed the importance of the EU committing to reach climate neutrality (net-zero greenhouse gas emissions) by 2050. The UK also supported calls for there to be five-year common time frames for NDCs and for ruling out carry-over of pre-2020 over-achievement of emissions reductions under the Kyoto Protocol. Finally, the UK noted that it will double its international climate finance to £11.6 billion over the next five years and called on all countries to consider similar pledges that they can make.
The presidency circulated a final compromise text of the conclusions which struck a balance between member states, which the Council adopted. The final conclusions highlighted that the EU will “update” its NDC, stressed the need to step up global efforts in light of the latest available science and in particular the IPCC Special Report on 1.5 °C, stressed that the EU is discussing climate neutrality in light of the Commission’s proposal for an EU-wide 2050 net-zero greenhouse gas emissions target, recalled the importance of striving towards common time frames for NDCs, and expressed commitment to setting up a new mechanism under Article 6.4 of the Paris Agreement that can lead to the closure of the Kyoto Protocol mechanisms.
Clean planet for all - EU long-term strategy - policy debate
The presidency invited member states to discuss the Commission’s proposed long-term strategy, “Clean Planet for all: EU’s strategic long-term vision for a climate neutral economy” and the proposal for an EU 2050 target of net-zero greenhouse gas emissions. The purpose of the debate was to take stock of member state positions and discuss the conditions, incentives, enabling framework, and measures needed for climate neutrality in the EU, ahead of the European leaders reaching a decision at the European Council in December.
The Commission intervened expressing confidence that the EU would reach agreement on the proposed EU net-zero 2050 target by the end of the year.
The majority of member states intervened and were in broad agreement on the need to ensure a fair and just transition, to mobilise investments from the private sector, and ensuring policy and sectoral coherence in the transition. On the EU achieving net-zero emissions by 2050, member states fell into three categories: ambitious member states who stressed the need for the EU to show leadership and seize the first-mover benefits of the transition to net-zero emissions; supportive but more cautious member states highlighting the economic and geographic challenges and issues concerning carbon leakage; and the three remaining member states, Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary, opposed to the EU net-zero target. The latter emphasised the differential impacts and costs of decarbonisation, relative wealth, and emissions reduction potential among member states, and therefore the need for funding and support mechanisms for those member states who would be most affected by the transition to a net-zero EU.
The 8th environmental action programme - adoption of conclusions
The presidency invited member states to adopt Council conclusions on the European Commission’s draft “8th Environmental Action Programme—Turning the Trends Together”.
Seventeen member states intervened, all in support of the programme, with some member states calling for the Commission to come forward with proposals as soon as possible. The UK intervened to note our support for the draft and the high level of ambition outlined in the conclusions. The UK also noted that these were global environmental challenges not restricted to the EU, and the UK looks forward to continuing to work with the EU collectively and member states individually on these challenges.
The presidency closed the discussion and the Council conclusions were adopted.
“More circularity” framework - adoption of conclusions
The presidency invited member states to adopt Council conclusions on the circular economy framework, “More circularity—a transition to a sustainable society”. This was the second debate on the circular economy following on from the previous discussion at the informal meeting of the Environment Council in June in Helsinki.
Some 21 member states intervened, all supportive of the position taken by the Commission, and saw the circular economy as a key part of meeting the 2030 and 2025 environmental targets and the Paris Agreement. Many member states identified the key sectors where action was needed, including textiles, water reuse, and plastics.
The presidency concluded the debates and the Council conclusions were adopted.
AOB items
The following items were also discussed under Any Other Business.
Communication on protecting and restoring forests—information from the Commission
The Commission presented its communication “Stepping up EU action to protect and restore the world’s forests”, adopted on 23 July 2019, the objective of which is to strengthen international cooperation to protect and improve the health of existing forests and increase forest coverage worldwide.
Nine member states intervened in support of the Communication, welcoming ambitious action from the EU in halting deforestation and forest degradation and highlighting the benefits for biodiversity, absorbing CO2 emissions, and livelihoods.
Transition to a fleet of zero-emission passenger cars, information from the Danish delegation, supported by the Luxembourg delegation
The Danish delegation presented a paper on the transition to a fleet of zero-emission passenger cars for accelerating the decarbonisation of the sector at the same time as preserving its competitiveness.
Eighteen member states intervened. Some member states expressed agreement that further action on zero-emission vehicles is needed to meet the existing targets and contribute to the pathway towards climate neutrality. Other member states highlighted that further action was premature given the recent agreement of CO2 targets for vehicles at the EU level. These member states also highlighted financial, competitive, and infrastructural concerns and the differential purchasing power of consumers among member states, and the increased export of second-hand cars to Central and Eastern Europe.
The Commission welcomed the discussion and stated that the new Commission, as part of the proposed European green deal, will have to consider its existing suite of policies for reducing emissions in the transport sector. The presidency concluded the discussion.
Regulation on type approval of motor vehicles—information from the presidency
The Council noted the information from the presidency on the new legislative proposal amending the regulation on type approval of motor vehicles with respect to emissions from light passenger and commercial vehicles. The legislative proposal follows the judgment of the General Court on 13 December 2018 that the Commission did not have the competence to amend the limits for real driving emission (RDE) tests. Eight member states intervened, all supportive of the swift adoption of the legislation. Interventions were divided between those supporting setting a lower conformity factor for the RDE tests compared with tests under laboratory conditions on the basis of improvements to testing equipment and the need to take action on air quality, and those supporting retention of the already-agreed limits in order to ensure legal certainty for the automotive sector and their investment decisions.
Regulation on sustainable finance taxonomy—information from the German, Luxembourg, and Austrian delegations
The Council noted the information from the German, Luxembourg, and Austrian delegations on the proposal on taxonomy for sustainable finance, who object to the current approach which classifies nuclear energy as sustainable. Fourteen member states intervened; Belgium and Italy were supportive of the effort to declassify nuclear as sustainable, while other member states stressed the importance of maintaining technology neutrality and the role of nuclear in meeting emissions reduction targets.
Report on the 18th meeting of parties to the convention on international trade in endangered species of wild fauna and flora—information from the presidency and Commission
The Council noted the information from the presidency and Commission on the 18th meeting of the conference of the parties (COP18) to the convention on international trade in endangered species of wild fauna and flora (CITES) in Geneva on 17-28 August 2019.
The 7th high-level dialogue conference of the China Europe Water Platform—information from the Portuguese delegation
The Council noted the information from the Portuguese delegation on the upcoming 7th high level dialogue conference of the China Europe Water Platform in Guimaraes on 6-9 November 2019.
[HCWS37]
Nuclear Energy Infrastructure
Kwasi Kwarteng Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth (Kwasi Kwarteng)
This statement concerns an application made by Horizon Nuclear Power Limited under the Planning Act 2008 for development consent for the construction and operation of a new nuclear power station and associated infrastructure at Wylfa Head on the Isle of Anglesey.
Under section 107(1) of the Planning Act 2008, the Secretary of State must make a decision on an application within three months of receipt of the examining authority’s report unless exercising the power under section 107(3) to set a new deadline. Where a new deadline is set, the Secretary of State must make a statement to Parliament to announce it. The deadline for the decision on the proposed Wylfa Newydd (Nuclear Generating Station) Order application was 23 October 2019.
There are outstanding issues which mean that we are unable to reach a decision based on the information provided to us. The Secretary of State has therefore extended the deadline for deciding the application to allow further information in respect of environmental effects and other outstanding issues to be provided and considered. The applicant and other interested parties will be given until 31 Dec 2019 to respond to our request for further information. This will then be assessed, potentially including public consultation, and a final decision taken on or before 31 March 2020.
[HCWS33]
Oral Answers to Questions
Kwasi Kwarteng Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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Lee Rowley (North East Derbyshire) (Con)
The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth (Kwasi Kwarteng)
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s campaign on this fracking issue. We are all concerned about the impact of recent seismic events in Lancashire. My hon Friend knows that the Government have been clear that they will support the exploration of our shale gas resources only in a safe and sustainable way. The Oil and Gas Authority is undertaking an analysis of the data from Cuadrilla’s operations and we will set out our future approach as soon as we have considered that report.
Lee Rowley
I thank my right hon. Friend for his comments. Will he confirm that he will consider not just the OGA review, but feedback from constituencies such as mine that do not believe that fracking is the way forward?
Kwasi Kwarteng
My hon. Friend is right: this is one of the top issues that come across my desk. I feel the local concern about it, and we will take that into consideration when we reach a final decision.
Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)
The National Audit Office report confirms that the UK Government have not analysed the costs and benefits of fracking and do not know how much money they have actually spent supporting fracking. Governance and regulation risks remain, as well as decommissioning liabilities that need to be resolved. Is it not time that the UK Government followed the lead of the Scottish Government and decided not to support the development of unconventional oil and gas?
Kwasi Kwarteng
As I said to my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire (Lee Rowley), we will consider the Oil and Gas Authority’s report and we will look at the evidence before we reach a final decision on the issue.
Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend think that it might be a good idea to leave those carbon-based fuels in the ground as a reserve for future generations in case of emergency?
Kwasi Kwarteng
My hon. Friend knows that we are committed to a net zero carbon target. We are doing very well on renewables, and our success in that is the best way to reach the target.
Danielle Rowley (Midlothian) (Lab)
Definitely not, Mr Speaker. No offence to the hon. Gentleman.
The decisions that we take over the next year will be critical in preventing climate change from becoming irreversible. The Committee on Climate Change has said that fracking on a significant scale is not compatible with UK climate targets. It increases local air pollution, generates huge volumes of chemical waste water, causes earthquakes and is just not necessary for the UK’s energy security. Yet the Secretary of State recently reiterated her support for fracking. Given the climate emergency, will the Government reconsider and commit now to banning fracking?
Kwasi Kwarteng
As I have said on three occasions now, we will consider the OGA report, and we will look at the evidence. We are very mindful of what local communities are saying and we will set out our future direction shortly.
Faisal Rashid (Warrington South) (Lab)
Karen Lee (Lincoln) (Lab)
The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth (Kwasi Kwarteng)
The hon. Lady will understand that the UK was forced to make these changes to comply with EU legislation. Since the new rates only came into effect on 1 October this year, it is too early to see what effect they have had. Once we have left the EU, we will have opportunities to amend the VAT treatment of low- carbon technologies to ensure that we can set the rates that we consider most appropriate.
Karen Lee
By raising the VAT threshold for solar installations, the Government are disincentivising the transition to green energy, and this is just one example of the Government’s failure to act with the urgency that the climate crisis demands. Will the Minister undertake today to consider adopting Labour’s plans to fit solar panels to 1.75 million low-income homes, which would combat climate change while creating jobs and reducing energy bills for people in Lincoln and across the UK?
Kwasi Kwarteng
I did suggest that the VAT increase was part of EU legislation, and that is something we can amend, if we wish to do so, after we have left the EU. Solar is a UK success story. I will not take any lessons from the Labour party about the success of solar: 99% of our solar-generating capacity and over 1 million installations have been deployed since 2010, since the Government took office. This is something that we are proud of, and it will obviously be part of our energy mix as we seek to hit the target of zero carbon emissions in 2050.
Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)
Even given the VAT situation, solar and wind, together with battery storage on commercial buildings, are pretty much viable without public subsidy. Is not now the right time for a widespread deployment on every public building, including every school, hospital and prison?
Kwasi Kwarteng
My hon. Friend makes an excellent observation. We are supporting innovation in this area. We have the Modern Energy Partners programme, which cuts energy costs and carbon emissions across the public sector.
Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)
Any VAT increase would be yet another hammer blow to solar. The Minister’s predecessors took solar power to the brink, blocked onshore wind, cut support for offshore wind and failed to capitalise on Scotland’s lead in marine and tidal power. Has he compared the detail in the Scottish Government’s new green deal with the lack of detail in the Queen’s Speech? When will his Government wake up to the climate emergency?
Kwasi Kwarteng
As I have said a number of times, the VAT increase was a consequence of EU membership, so on that basis I recommend that the hon. Gentleman support the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill this evening.
Drew Hendry
Last month’s energy auction revealed that offshore wind is a third cheaper than gas and half the price of the energy from Hinkley C nuclear plant, yet Tory dogma is holding climate change mitigation back. Does the Minister agree that VAT on solar is yet another barrier to much needed change, and will he ask the Chancellor to rule that out in the Budget?
Kwasi Kwarteng
I very much appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s prepared remarks, but he does not seem to be living in the real world. We have delivered on offshore wind, which he mentioned. The price has fallen by two thirds—that is a Government success and we are going to pursue that sort of success to meet the net zero carbon target.
Giles Watling (Clacton) (Con)
The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth (Kwasi Kwarteng)
As a result of the Government’s support, the UK is a world leader in offshore wind and a leader in tackling climate change. The third contracts for difference auction in 2019 delivered 5.5 GW of new offshore wind capacity, and the price was £39 per megawatt-hour, which was two thirds less than just four years ago. Our sector deal also paves the way to increase exports fivefold to £2.6 billion a year by 2030.
James Cartlidge
In East Anglia, we want to be champions of clean growth and are very proud that off our coast we are generating 52% of this country’s offshore wind output, but we want to go much further. Can my right hon. Friend assure me that the national grid will be able to keep pace and that we will support technology such as battery storage that will enable us to make the most of our natural asset?
Kwasi Kwarteng
My hon. Friend can rest assured that the Government continue to upgrade and invest in the electricity system to ensure that it can deliver additional generation. Of course, battery storage technology and other forms of storage are at the centre of any strategy to reach the net zero carbon target.
Greg Hands
The offshore wind sector has been one of the Government’s biggest success stories, with the delivery of the world’s largest capacity. When I was at the Department for International Trade, we also made it a priority to be able to export that capability. Could the Minister tell us a bit about the work that BEIS is doing with the DIT to continue that work so that we also deliver real economic benefits for our country’s exporters?
Kwasi Kwarteng
I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend, who spent two years in the Department for International Trade and was an excellent Minister. He has driven a great deal of progress in this area. As he will know, increasing competitiveness and the capability of our supply chain are key to increasing our exporting power, and, through the offshore wind sector deal, the sector will invest up to £250 million for that purpose. I continue to work with my right hon. Friend’s former Department to identify opportunities, and I regularly meet my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for International Trade, in his capacity as Minister for investment.
Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby) (Lab)
Ørsted recently opened an east coast hub in my constituency. It is committed to providing local employment opportunities as part of its business, but sadly the extension of the non-EEA visa waiver to the offshore wind workers means that some companies can exploit underpaid and overworked foreign labour rather than developing local opportunities. Will the Government commit themselves to ending the waiver next year?
Kwasi Kwarteng
The Government will absolutely commit themselves to supporting new jobs in the sector. Because of allocation round 3, the contracts for difference auction, we are envisaging 400,000 new jobs in the immediate future, in the next few years. This is something at which the Government are actually succeeding and on which we are working.
Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
It was welcome that the Hebridean renewable project won 240 MW in the contracts for difference allocation round, but we need 370 MW to 400 MW for an interconnector. I know that the Scottish island group has enough CfDs to build an interconnector for clean green energy. Is it only the UK that could design a system under which we secure CfDs but Ofgem then says that that is not enough to build an interconnector? Will the Minister ensure that, in these days of climate change, the clean green energy of the Saudi Arabia of renewables—the Hebrides, Shetland and Orkney—is taken advantage of?
Kwasi Kwarteng
I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s enthusiasm and passion for this technology, but it is wrong to suggest that the CfD auction was a failure, or that it somehow constituted a defeat. In fact, it was extremely successful. As I have said, the price was £39 per megawatt-hour, two thirds lower than the 2015 price of £115. Obviously we are looking at interconnectors, which will be part of the solution to the issue of net zero carbon.
Mr Speaker
Anyone would think that the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Angus Brendan MacNeil) was conducting a symphony orchestra rather than chairing an august Select Committee of the House, but the eccentricity of the hon. Gentleman merely adds to his lovability.
Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con)
There is huge potential for low-cost, low-carbon electricity generation from floating wind in the Celtic sea. Will my right hon. Friend accept an invitation to pay a visit on 19 November and find out about this exciting opportunity?
Kwasi Kwarteng
My desire and propensity to visit all these installations know no bounds, and I should be very happy—diary permitting, obviously—to take up my hon. Friend’s offer.
Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)
Does the Minister agree that hydrogen should be made from renewables via electrolysis in the medium and long term?
Kwasi Kwarteng
The hon. Lady is right to point to the advantages of hydrogen, but, as she will understand, the issue with electrolysis is that it is currently very expensive, so the green hydrogen to which she has referred is something that we are continuing to develop.
Mr William Wragg (Hazel Grove) (Con)
The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth (Kwasi Kwarteng)
A number of hydro projects are currently in receipt of support through the feed-in tariff and renewables obligation schemes. As my hon. Friend will know, from 2020 small-scale hydroelectric projects will also be eligible for the smart export guarantee, which allows people to resell excess capacity to the grid.
Mr Wragg
My right hon. Friend will be aware of the failure of Solarplicity during the summer. Many renewable energy companies, including Stockport Hydro in my constituency, are significantly out of pocket. Will my right hon. Friend meet me to discuss the problem, and will he urge Ofgem to step in and cover the debts that are owed to Solarplicity?
Kwasi Kwarteng
I should be delighted to meet my hon. Friend to discuss the issue. Obviously, I cannot commit Ofgem to bailing out companies or paying debts—that is not its function, as my hon. Friend should know—but I should be happy to meet him at any time that is convenient.
Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)
I welcome the support given to hydroelectricity generation at this time. Exciting new projects in marine energy need the same support. We would not have a successful offshore wind industry had not support been given to that for decades. Will the Minister follow the work of his predecessor on this and work with the Welsh Government to ensure that this happens around the UK coastline?
Kwasi Kwarteng
Absolutely. The hon. Gentleman raises an important point: the success with offshore wind did not come out of a clear blue sky. It evolved and depended on huge amounts of investment and development over many decades. So I am very happy to engage with the hon. Gentleman and the Welsh Government on this.
Eddie Hughes (Walsall North) (Con)
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth (Kwasi Kwarteng)
This subject has come up, and we need to look at how companies and exporters tackle serious carbon emissions. What they are doing in the Amazon is not acceptable. We need to engage with that and have a dialogue.
Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)
Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East) (SNP)
Kwasi Kwarteng
The hon. Gentleman is right: carbon capture, usage and storage is going to be crucial to our meeting our net zero carbon target. We are committed to supporting its deployment in the 2020s. The Government are already funding programmes in this policy area worth more than £500 million, and we will have a useful dialogue with colleagues in the Treasury to encourage the development of the technology.
David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con)
I draw the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. In my constituency, we have two EDF nuclear power stations. Part of the EDF group is RTE, which is currently working with the British company Aquind to deliver cross-EU-border energy infrastructure. The EU Commission has just removed UK companies from its list of projects of common interests, which affects their regulation. Will my right hon. Friend urge Ofgem to step up and protect British companies by granting regulation as soon as possible in accordance with British law?
Kwasi Kwarteng
Absolutely. We had an official present in the room at that PCI meeting on 4 October. This issue has been raised with me and is a matter of concern.
Kirstene Hair (Angus) (Con)
I was delighted to hear that Seagreen wind farm off the coast of Angus was successful in its bid in the UK Government contract for difference auction. It will be the most powerful wind farm throughout the United Kingdom and will have the ability to power up to 40% of Scottish homes. Would the Minister like to come to Angus and see the impact it is already having on our local economy? The local port has already secured the contract for the operations and maintenance base.
Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)
Sedgefield is home to the largest business park in the north-east of England, with 500 companies and 10,000 to 12,000 jobs. More than 50% of the jobs and businesses there rely in some way on trade with the EU. If the Secretary of State has her way and there is no more frictionless trade with the EU, no more customs union and no access to the single market as there is now, does she not have a responsibility to publish an economic assessment on the effects that will have on my constituents’ jobs?
Draft Gas Tariffs Code (Amendment) (EU Exit) regulations 2019
Kwasi Kwarteng Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth (Kwasi Kwarteng)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Gas Tariffs Code (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. The draft regulations were laid before the House on 10 July this year. As Members will know, a significant part of the legislation that governs our energy markets is derived from EU law. The European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 will have the effect of making such legislation retained EU law, and as we approach EU exit my Department is determined to ensure that that energy legislation continues to be operable in the event of a no-deal exit.
The extension of the article 50 period to 31 October means that additional EU law that is now applicable will be retained EU law on exit day, and the draft regulations deal with precisely that issue. Chapters II, III and IV of the network code on harmonised transmission tariff structures for gas, known as TAR, applied across the UK and the EU from 31 May 2019. The tariffs regime therefore needs to be amended to correct deficiencies in what will be retained EU law, such as where there are functions in relation to EU entities that will no longer have a role in our affairs, and EU references that are no longer appropriate. A clear example of that is replacing references to member states with reference specifically to the UK. We are amending the Gas (Security of Supply and Network Codes) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 to address that very issue. That supports our aim to retain regulatory functions and frameworks if the UK leaves the EU without a deal, by keeping Great Britain and Northern Ireland’s gas markets working effectively and providing continuity for UK industry and consumers.
The TAR network code covers the ways in which transmission system operators collect revenues associated with the provision of services at entry and exit points via capacity and commodity-based transmission tariffs and non-transmission tariffs. By retaining those technical specifications we will maximise business continuity for market participants and cross-border gas trading. The modifications are straightforward and ensure that on exit day TAR will operate effectively, maintaining regulatory certainty in its entirety.
The draft regulations are an appropriate use of the powers set out in the 2018 Act. They will maximise continuity in our energy regulation and, crucially, ensure business continuity for operators in the UK market. They will facilitate continued international trade in gas and protect the security of affordable cheap gas supply for UK consumers as we leave the EU. I commend the draft regulations to the Committee.
Kwasi Kwarteng
On the first question, I think the hon. Member for Southampton, Test was trying to get me to say that we will somehow be locked in forever, but the point of this legislation is to ensure that retained EU law is not affected in the event of no deal. I know about this sort of thing, because I an Under-Secretary of State at the Department for Exiting the European Union in charge of the withdrawal Bill. The principle behind that was that we did not want any discontinuity, or as little as possible, between 31 October—or 29 March as was—and the following day. That principle, as the hon. Gentleman suggests, is enshrined in this SI. He is quite right to say that the reason chapters II, III and IV were not covered by the original SI is that they have only been in operation since 31 May, so that is quite in order.
On the hon. Gentleman’s second point, it is a principle of the UK Government that if a Minister signs in his capacity as Minister, which is what my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood did, and he is the relevant Minister at the time of the signing, it does not invalidate that if he is then moved on. In fact, he has not really been moved on; he is still a Minister in the Department. At the time of signing, he was technically not the relevant Minister anyway because, as the hon. Gentleman says, the relevant Minister was taking a leave of absence, but he was standing in for her and signed the requisite documents. As I understand it, that does not make any difference.
Dr Whitehead
I would be grateful for an indication that the Government do not intend to introduce any further legislation relating to the TAR regulations as they now stand, as was implied in the original statutory instrument, which I think has been superseded by the present one.
Kwasi Kwarteng
The Government have no intention to review or change the tariff regime. Obviously, once we have left the EU, future Governments may decide to review that, but the present Government have no intention to change anything in regard to gas tariffs.
Question put and agreed to.
Government Plan for Net Zero Emissions
Kwasi Kwarteng Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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Westminster Hall is an alternative Chamber for MPs to hold debates, named after the adjoining Westminster Hall.
Each debate is chaired by an MP from the Panel of Chairs, rather than the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. A Government Minister will give the final speech, and no votes may be called on the debate topic.
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth (Kwasi Kwarteng)
Thank you very much, Mr Gray. I have to say that this has been an excellent debate, and I sincerely commend my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) for securing it. I hope that we can have more time in the House of Commons to discuss these important issues.
One thing that struck me in the debate was the level of consensus. There were one or two examples of political point scoring here and there, and we can accept that, but I was delighted to see so many MPs sing the praises of their local councils and of the fact that local communities are making great strides. In one of the few agreements I have ever had with the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Emma Hardy), I completely agree that the Government have to be involved in this. No one in this House has praised the free market as extensively as I have over the years, but even I, as an energy Minister, realise that, as she clearly said, private enterprise and the free market economy will not deliver this target on their own. That is very clear. As a Government Minister, I am absolutely committed to the target.
We can argue about how quickly we are reaching the target, and I happen to think that we have done a great deal as a country. The hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead) said, “Oh well, you’ve done okay in the power sector”, but the power sector is huge. Looking at the history of this country, at what the industrial revolution meant and at industrialisation across the world, power is absolutely at the heart of it. For a country that for 300 years was powered by coal burning and fossil fuels, taking coal off the system entirely in 2025, in terms of power generation, is an achievement.
I do not want to rest on my laurels. I do not want to be accused of complacency—there is still a hell of a lot to do. However, to face the future, we have to recognise where we have come from. I pay tribute to the last Labour Government for passing the Climate Change Act 2008. I do not think we need to play childish, point-scoring games on that. It was a significant piece of legislation, and I am happy to say that. I think that what we did in amending that Act in 2019 was also significant and bold and showed leadership.
As the new Minister—I have been in post for two months—I have seen a number of my counterparts across the world, and all have said that the United Kingdom is a leader in this area. That does not mean that we have solved everything. I think it is impressive that we have reduced our carbon emissions by 42% since 1990 while growing our economy by two thirds, but I fully recognise that we need to do more on energy efficiency and insulating homes, which is why we are spending a large amount of money dealing with fuel poverty. We have put in bids for the Budget; it would be inappropriate for me to say exactly what those bids are, but we are looking at this. Our officials and Ministers are very focused on the idea that fuel poverty is a real problem.
We have also committed ourselves to offshore wind. Ten years ago, many people thought that offshore wind was a crackers and slightly bizarre idea. An energy specialist was telling me that the reduction in the costs of offshore wind is the biggest story of the decade. We were looking at costs of £150 per megawatt-hour at the beginning of the decade. The first auction came in at £119. Only two weeks ago, the price was £39 per megawatt-hour. That is a significant achievement. Nobody was saying that these targets were in any way achievable, and while I fully appreciate that Opposition Members say that we should move further and faster, and I fully understand that we are not exactly where we should be, we have to recognise that there have been big achievements in this.
On the forward view, we can dwell on the past and say that we got the right legislation, but my right hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) and my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth are absolutely right that we can all say a date. It can trip off the tongue—net zero by 2050 or 2030—but how do we actually get there? That is exactly what the Government are trying to set out. My team is looking at pathways to net zero, and it is clear to me that the best way, in terms of energy security and also cost, is to have a balanced approach. The question of an entirely renewable economy was raised, but the problem with that is that we would need huge amounts of capacity because of the intermittent nature of that power.
Drew Hendry
On that balanced economy, the CBI, while acknowledging the offshore wind success story, said that investment in onshore wind and solar has stalled for political reasons, and urges this UK Tory Government to take politics off the table for onshore wind. Will they do that?
Kwasi Kwarteng
The hon. Gentleman will recognise that the target has changed. The Climate Change Act 2008 set an 80% reduction, but this year we have set a net zero carbon target. There is absolutely a wider debate about how we move on—[Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman is trying to put words into my mouth, but I am just saying that there is a broader debate.
Kwasi Kwarteng
I am not going to give way any more; I have to sum up.
It is absolutely right that we should debate these subjects. There has been considerable progress with a bipartisan approach. I will not stand here and say that everything that Labour did was terrible and that everything we have done is brilliant. That is a childish approach—[Interruption.] For the avoidance of any doubt, I am not saying that Opposition Members are saying that. I am just saying that we have to have a bipartisan approach, because as an hon. Member suggested, that is the only way that businesses will be able to invest in this sector and work with the Government.
Lastly, I will talk about COP 26. Hosting it in Glasgow will be a great opportunity for the United Kingdom to show its strengths and to show the progress we have made in this area. People from around the world are looking forward to this event. They say that Britain seems to have cross-party consensus. They look at our politics in other areas, such as Brexit, and think it is very disunited, but on this particular issue, people say that, across the board, from the Conservative party to the Labour party, the Scottish National party and the Liberal Democrats, there is a degree of consensus, which we should build on and encourage. In that spirit, I will take a very quick intervention.
Anna McMorrin
I thank the Minister for giving way; he is very kind. What is the ambition for COP 26 next year? What is his ambition going forward? Will it be harder, faster targets than 2050, which is what we need?
Kwasi Kwarteng
First, we need to get other countries to sign up to the net zero carbon target. They have not done that. This is one thing that will absolutely be at the top of our agenda at COP 26. That is exactly how we are showing leadership. The Chinese Energy Minister says that they do not want to pollute their country and want a cleaner energy approach, and that they are looking to countries such as Britain to help them. That is where the leadership comes in, and that is what we will apply at COP 26.
Energy Council
Kwasi Kwarteng Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth (Kwasi Kwarteng)
The UK did not attend the EU Energy Council in Brussels on 24 September 2019.
The UK Government have decided that from 1 September until exit day, UK Ministers and officials will only attend EU meetings where the UK has a significant national interest in the outcome of the discussions.
[HCWS1854]
Energy Planning Project
Kwasi Kwarteng Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth (Kwasi Kwarteng)
This statement concerns an application made by Orsted Hornsea Project Three (UK) Limited under the Planning Act 2008 for development consent for the construction and operation of the proposed Hornsea Three offshore wind farm and associated offshore and onshore infrastructure in the North Sea and in Norfolk.
Under section 107(1) of the Planning Act 2008, the Secretary of State must make a decision on an application within three months of receipt of the examining authority’s report unless exercising the power under section 107(3) to set a new deadline. Where a new deadline is set, the Secretary of State must make a statement to Parliament to announce it. The deadline for the decision on the proposed Hornsea Three offshore wind farm development consent order application was 2 October 2019.
The Secretary of State has set a new deadline for deciding the application of 31 March 2020 to allow further information in respect of offshore environmental effects to be provided and considered. The decision to set the new deadline for the application is without prejudice to the Secretary of State’s decision on whether to ultimately grant or refuse development consent.
[HCWS1852]
EU Environment Council
Kwasi Kwarteng Excerpts(4 years, 7 months ago)
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The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth (Kwasi Kwarteng)
My noble Friend the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State, the Minister for Climate Change (Lord Duncan of Springbank) has today made the following statement:
The next EU Environment Council will take place on 4 October, in Luxembourg. I will attend, representing the UK. The Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform of the Scottish Government, Roseanna Cunningham, will also attend.
On climate items, the main focus will be a debate and adoption of Council conclusions on the EU’s preparations for the 25th session of the conference of the parties (COP25) to the United Nations framework convention on climate change (UNFCCC), to be held in Santiago de Chile, Chile, on 2-13 December 2019. There will then be a policy debate on the proposed EU long-term strategy on climate, “Clean Planet for all: EU’s strategic long-term vision for a climate neutral economy”.
On environment items, there will be a debate and adoption of two Council conclusions: one on the EU’s 8th environmental action programme and the other on the framework for a circular and sustainable economy.
Any other business (AOB) will include information from the Commission and the Presidency on three items:
Current legislative proposal (information from the presidency): common techical requirements for the type approval of motor vehicles and their replacement parts with regard to emissions from light passenger and commercial vehicles; and
Communication on stepping up EU action to protect and restore the world’s forests (information from the Commission); and
Reports on main recent international meetings (information from the presidency and the Commission): 18th meeting of the conference of the parties (COP 18) to the convention on international trade in endagered species of wild fauna and flora (CITES), Geneva, 17-28 August 2019.
There are currently three member state-led AOBs:
Transition to a fleet of zero emission passenger cars (information from the Danish delegation);
Regulation on taxonomy sustainable finance (information from the German, Luxembourg, and Austrian delegations); and
7th high-level dialogue meeting of the China-Europe Water Platform, Guimarães, 7-8 November 2019 (information from the Portuguese delegation).
[HCWS1848]
Nuclear Safeguards Bill
Kwasi Kwarteng ExcerptsTuesday 8th May 2018
(5 years, 11 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Nuclear Safeguards Act 2018 View all Nuclear Safeguards Act 2018 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Commons Consideration of Lords Amendments as at 8 May 2018 - (8 May 2018)
Stephen Kerr
My hon. Friend has the power of mind-reading because the next thing I wish to say is that given that it will not be possible for us to maintain Euratom membership, the Government have taken the realistic approach of declaring through the process of the current round of negotiations that we would like to achieve an “as close as possible” relationship with Euratom, however that might ultimately be described. Although there is no such thing today as an associate membership, perhaps it is possible to become an associate of some form or another to the end of achieving that “as close as possible” relationship that we desire.
Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con)
My understanding is that we as a country want to leave Euratom. Does my hon. Friend agree that opening up a suggestion that we could have associate membership muddies the waters slightly in terms of the clarity of the debate?
Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)
I should like to begin by echoing the remarks of the hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead) about the Minister’s participation in the Bill so far. He has indeed been helpful, inclusive and relentlessly courteous as we have gone through the process. I welcome the progress that has been made, but that must be set against the background of what we believe to be the folly of leaving Euratom in the first instance. The last time the Bill came before us, I said that despite the Government’s ideological intention to abandon Euratom—it is ideological; there has been no attempt to challenge whether there might be a possibility to stay in it—their proposals fell short of answering vital questions on the UK’s nuclear future. Those answers have been asked for by the nuclear industry, the medical profession, our research sector and virtually everyone associated with nuclear power. Simply put, we should not be leaving Euratom.
Even with some sensible amendments from the Lords that have been accepted by the Commons, the Bill still fails to answer many critical concerns. As I have stated before, we in the Scottish National party believe that the safest nuclear power is no nuclear power. In Scotland, we have demonstrated what can be achieved by alternative renewable energy sources, and there is still a vast potential to be tapped, especially offshore, for an abundance of low-cost clean energy. In contrast, the UK Government continue to chase the folly of new nuclear, including the white elephant that is Hinckley C. That means higher costs for consumers, and technologies whose capital costs continue to skyrocket.
Kwasi Kwarteng
Does the hon. Gentleman believe that “no nuclear” can be squared with full participation in Euratom? If he had to choose one or the other, what would he decide?
Drew Hendry
I find the hon. Gentleman’s question rather odd. I shall come to the reasons that we support Euratom in a moment, but a no-nuclear future means that we still have to navigate the nuclear that we have at the moment, and the wider public need to understand the existing nuclear technology.
Drew Hendry
I want to make progress, because I am aware that Members wish to move ahead and I wish to accommodate that as much as I can.
On safeguards, at Dounreay in the highlands we have lived with the consequences of the UK’s previous regulatory regime. Decades on, we are still finding nuclear material that has simply been dumped or buried. For these reasons, and many more, while we work for a nuclear-free future, we recognise the vital need for the continuing protections and benefits that we have enjoyed through Euratom. I hope that that answers the hon. Gentleman’s question.
Turning to the Lords amendments, and the Government amendment in lieu, I should like some clarification from the Minister. On Lords amendments 1 and 2, I have said that providing clarification on the definition of “civil activities” is a sensible move, but is he in a position to enlighten us on the question put by Lord Hutton as to why the phrase, “for peaceful purposes”, has been defined in regard to electricity generation? I understand that Lord Henley, the Under-Secretary for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, was to write to Lord Hutton with a response to that question. However, I am not aware that there is anything on the public record on that issue, so I would be grateful if the Minister enlightened us.
Lords amendment 4 proposes a sunset clause, but I still do not think that the Government have fully answered the question as to why the sunset provision needed to be extended to five years from two years, so I would welcome clarification from the Minister. That being said, this is a sensible clause to add to the Bill.
I also agree with Lords amendment 5, which will mean that we receive a report for each three-month period in the years after the Bill is enacted. I note that the reports could include information on the development of the domestic operational arrangements required for the new domestic safeguards regime. Will the Minister outline what level of information he expects to provide? What information does he intend to include in the reports? For example, will they include information on the profile of ongoing costs, including any increases, on skills, on the recruitment and skills opportunities for girls and women and on gender pay? Reports should also include a rolling risk register.
I also note that we are to expect, or “may” have, a report that includes information on future arrangements with Euratom, including on nuclear research and development and on the import and export of qualifying nuclear material. I listened carefully when the Minister said that he had “every confidence” about the situation. It is good that he does, but we should have a guarantee. As was said earlier, there should be no diminution of the current protection that we enjoy under Euratom. I remain concerned about radioactive isotopes, but I do not intend to go through the rationale that I presented in the previous debate for why they are vital—although if I did, I would make no apology for doing so. The medical profession is concerned about their future availability, and even if there are agreements about access to such isotopes, the question remains unanswered about how we are supposed to obtain them in a Brexit future that means no customs union. How are they going to get across the border in time, before their limited half-life has expired? I could say much more on that, but perhaps the Minister can tell us how he intends to overcome the customs barriers and get that material here.
The Scottish National party supports Labour’s position on Lords amendment 3, and if it comes to a vote, we will vote to disagree with the disagreement that the UK Government have brought forward. If the Minister was serious about giving Parliament assurances, he would accept Lords amendment 3, which was moved by a Cross-Bench peer. The amendment quite literally does what it says on the tin: no exit from Euratom if relevant and necessary agreements are not in place. Instead, in presenting their own amendment (a), the UK Government are again asking us to take things on trust and believe that everything will be all right on the night. That is not good enough when it comes to nuclear safeguards.
Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con)
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak tonight as I spoke in this important debate at an earlier stage—on Second Reading. I was pleased to hear the speech from my hon. Friend the Member for Copeland (Trudy Harrison), who gave a good, comprehensive analysis of why civil nuclear power and the nuclear industry are so important, not only to her constituency but to the country as a whole. In this debate, we tend to get forgetful about the immense contribution Britain has made to the nuclear industry and nuclear science. At the beginning of the 20th century, we had people such as Thomson and Rutherford, and others in the Cavendish laboratory at Cambridge and at other universities. They pioneered nuclear technology and advances in the nuclear industry. It is sad to hear speeches in this House that yet again undermine, frustrate or seek to question our capacity to get this right and to institute safeguards.
In that regard, the Bill is an excellent piece of legislation. It is sensible and it tries to construct a framework that will allow us to leave Euratom and go our own way. After all, we are members of the International Atomic Energy Agency—it has a structure and about 169 countries as members—and we should celebrate that. To hear people in this Chamber, one would think that without Euratom we were absolutely nothing and there would be no safeguards and no industry. We have heard the doom-mongering prophecy of thousands of job losses, to which the hon. Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock) alluded in his mildly entertaining speech. We have had all these bugbears and goblins, and all this terror, held before us, but we are taking a simple step: we are going to leave Euratom and institute our own Bill, as we are doing, that will provide for safeguards in the industry. We also have the IAEA as a backstop. All this fear-mongering and these doom-laden prophecies of job losses are grossly exaggerated.
The other thing to say on the amendments is that in eight years in this House I cannot remember a Government who have been so accommodating and open to amendments as we have been on this Bill. In general, we see Governments, including the one of which I am a member, rejecting amendments; sometimes the amendments make sense and often they do not. In this instance, I have been surprised and impressed by the fact that our Front Benchers and the Government as a whole have adopted many of the amendments proposed in the Lords.
I want to talk a little about the House of Lords amendments and the processes they are going through. The job of scrutiny that the Lords are doing is good, but in the context of Euratom and debates about the EU there is a suspicion—I am not saying that all the people in the other place are influenced in this way—that a lot of these debates and institutions are being set up as straw men with which to block Brexit. When people say we should stay in this or that institution, there is always the suspicion of it being a rearguard fight to reverse the decision of the referendum of June 2016 and somehow to stay in the EU by other means. I am not suggesting the majority of their lordships are influenced by that, but in these debates there is always the suspicion that people are trying to use proxies and excuses to prolong our membership, unnecessarily, of these European institutions.
Euratom is a creature not of the EU but very much of the philosophy that was underpinning countries of western Europe coming together. I believe Euratom was established in 1957, roughly at the same time as the treaty of Rome, but we did not actually join it until 1973. To hear some of these speeches, one would think that we had no nuclear industry and no nuclear expertise before we joined Euratom. As I was trying to suggest, that is, of course, completely false.
Layla Moran
Would the hon. Gentleman perhaps concede that he has misunderstood the amendment? It says that its provisions would be invoked only if everything had not been agreed. It does not say that we would stay in Euratom in perpetuity; it simply says that we would stay in until the point at which every single i had been dotted and every single t had been crossed.
Kwasi Kwarteng
I accept that it is a clever amendment. I accept that on the face of it, it says that it is just a backstop, there purely to ensure that if we do not have the right treaties in place we get to stay in Euratom forever and ever, but the hon. Lady and I know that the people who composed the amendment do not expect all the relevant treaties to have been signed in the short timeframe available. I suggest, perhaps cynically—perhaps the hon. Lady will challenge me on this—that the clever amendment is simply a ruse to prolong our membership of Euratom. Call me an over-cynical man of superstition, but a lot of my constituents, if they pay any attention to this issue, would come to the same conclusion.
Layla Moran
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for allowing me a second go. In a sense, we are all rooting for the Minister, in the hope that he will come to a complete set of agreements in time. We all want that, and as soon as he does that, the amendment’s provisions will no longer apply. There is no issue, because if it all happens, it is fine, and even if it does not happen, the amendment will no longer apply as soon as it does happen. I do not understand the hon. Gentleman’s argument; it does not make logical sense.
Kwasi Kwarteng
I am grateful for the hon. Lady’s interventions. All I am suggesting is that what we have seen in the other House and heard in speeches there over several weeks is a consistent and concerted attempt to reverse the verdict of June 2016. I feel that this Euratom debate—I spoke on Second Reading—has been very much a proxy debate about the merits of the EU, which it should not have been. I have every confidence that the Government have the right safeguards in the Bill. I do not feel that the British civil nuclear industry is under any threat whatsoever. With the IAEA, we have in place the right structures. The scaremongering and doom-laden prophesies should be set aside, we should encourage the Government and we should reject the Lords amendments.
Question put, That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 3.
Industrial Strategy
Kwasi Kwarteng Excerpts(6 years ago)
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Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con)
I am grateful to be called in this important debate. I thought that I was coming here to speak about industrial strategy, but having listening to the hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Rebecca Long Bailey), I realise we are having just another general debate on the economy in which we hear the same old Labour rants, gloom-filled prophecies and denunciations of Government policy.
Industrial strategy is one of the most interesting areas of policy and government, so it is frankly disappointing to see the Labour party using it purely as a political football, with its spokesman giving a ranting speech that, in my many years in this House, I have heard far too often—it was very dispiriting. I am sorry to have to introduce my short speech in this way, but her speech was a real missed opportunity.
It is exciting that, for the first time in a long while, we actually have an industrial strategy. The House will remember that there was no such thing under the previous Labour Administration. There was no coherent, focused strategy between 1997 and 2010, and it was exciting when the Government made their announcement last year.
On the reach of the industrial strategy, it is right to start with research and development, which is central to our forward progress. It was remarkable that the Lady opposite did not once use the phrase “research and development”, as far as I remember, although I will check Hansard tomorrow. It is was surprising in such a debate that we did not hear anything about research and development from the Opposition.
Research and development is clearly a big part of the Government’s strategy, and there is a £4.7 billion fund for such investment. We are also trying to create a more favourable environment. From where I stand, corporation tax cuts, about which we have been very consistent over the past eight years, have been an important lever—the Lady opposite talked about levers.
Kwasi Kwarteng
Forgive me. I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman has picked me up on that.
It is right that we look at these measures in the round. Reductions in corporation tax from 28% towards 18% have been of huge benefit in trying to create a culture of entrepreneurship and in trying to create growth.
Alan Brown
The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Government’s Red Book at the 2017 spring Budget predicted that cuts to corporation tax would cost the UK Treasury £24 billion. How does that equate to growth?
Kwasi Kwarteng
The hon. Gentleman talks about predictions, but let us look at the past. We have cut corporation tax in every single year since 2010, but revenues from that tax have gone up. That shows exactly that the Government’s strategy is right.
Let us consider ideas about investment in our people and their education. When I go around schools in my constituency, I am struck by the fact that everyone is talking about STEM subjects—science, technology, engineering and maths. These subjects are being fostered and encouraged by the Government. The message is very much going out, right through the educational establishment and across schools, and it is very encouraging that that is happening. In my constituency, a number of schools are looking in particular to increase STEM participation among female students, which is very exciting. All these things are part of an industrial strategy. All these things will make the country more prosperous and more productive—they will drive future productivity growth. The Government are to be commended for taking an unusually medium to long-term view of the UK economy. Far too often in this House, we sling insults, with lots of abuse and all that, and we are very focused on the short term. It is exciting that in this industrial strategy we can think in terms of the medium and longer term.
On that note, infrastructure spending is very dear to my heart, as the Member for Spelthorne. Heathrow—the “H” word—is something that this Parliament will have to decide on, hopefully in the next few months, but certainly in the next couple of years. I have always been clear about my support for the third runway—or rather, I should say, the expansion of Heathrow. That is vital to drive forward the economy, productivity growth and prosperity, so we will have to tackle that.
On the broad range of infrastructure issues, investment in human capital with regard to STEM subjects, and research and development—
Norman Lamb (North Norfolk) (LD)
I absolutely welcome the increased investment in research and development to which the hon. Gentleman refers, but does he agree that aiming to get to the OECD average in 10 years is not exactly ambitious for this country?
Kwasi Kwarteng
There are a huge number of ambitious initiatives in the industrial strategy. We are very good in this House—Opposition Members certainly are—at running the country down and pointing out shortfalls. However, as my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall North (Eddie Hughes) pointed out, we have some of the best universities in the world, and we have the best talent, as the Secretary of State mentioned. The trick, and the ambition, is to try to marry some of that talent with commercial productivity, and that is what the Government are trying to do. That is an exciting development. When we look at world-beating innovation and scientific research, we see that this country is right at the top of any list. We should celebrate that and try to improve on it, and I fully accept the remarks that have been made about that.
I am delighted that we are debating this issue because, as far as I can recall, it has been a very long time since we have talked about industrial strategy, certainly in this House. We are putting to bed a lot of the ghosts of the 1970s. I know that the Labour party does not necessarily want me to talk about the 1970s, but they were a disastrous era, when the so-called industrial strategy collapsed into a slightly absurd game of trying to pick winners and of backing industries that were totally failing. It is a real relief to hear a plan from the Secretary of State that moves away from some of those old ideas. Anyone who thinks we will drive innovation, R&D and talent by nationalising vast swathes of the British economy—anyone who thinks that is a viable option—deserves some sort of break or respite, because they are clearly not thinking particularly straight. I do not think it is right to confront this country with threats of nationalisation and confiscatory taxation. I do not think that helps the investment climate, and it is not a good form of industrial strategy. I am delighted that we are discussing this, and I look forward to contributions from Opposition Members that will be made in a more constructive spirit than the speech we heard just a few minutes ago.