Syria: President al-Assad
Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts(7 years, 8 months ago)
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Lord Cormack
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the remarks by the Foreign Secretary before the Select Committee on International Relations on 26 January, whether it is their policy that President Bashar al-Assad should be allowed to run for re-election in the event of a peace settlement in Syria.
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)
My Lords, our long-standing position is that there can be no sustainable peace in Syria while Assad remains in power. He is incapable of uniting the country because of his military campaign against political opposition. Syria needs a transition to a new, inclusive, non-sectarian Government to achieve the credible political settlement that will bring long-term stability. This is set out in the Geneva communiqué and endorsed by UN Security Council Resolution 2254.
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, of course I thank my noble friend for that Answer but, in the light of the evidence given last week to the committee of my noble friend Lord Howell—I am so glad to see him back—I am somewhat disappointed. Could we not have a new, realistic approach, recognising that we cannot remove Assad? In the words of the patriarch of the Syrian Orthodox Church, who was here a few weeks ago, he should be a candidate in any election. Far be it for me to suggest that, if he wins, he would be invited on a second state visit—but should we not establish diplomatic representation in Damascus and be at the centre, so that when peace is eventually restored we will have played a constructive part in restoring it?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, we are taking a lead in the constructive discussions for resolving what is an appalling situation across Syria—a situation where, at the last election, the only opposition opponent to Assad felt it necessary at the last moment to encourage everybody in the country to vote for Assad rather than himself as a candidate. Assad has shown that he is incapable of protecting his own people, but I agree with my noble friend that we should not dictate an outcome. What we are saying is that Assad has not proved that he can bring peace to the country. We are leading the way in the Syria Support Group of the United Nations in trying to ensure that there can be a position where the Syrian people decide the next steps. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said when he appeared before the committee of my noble friend Lord Howell, whom I am delighted to see today:
“I would hope that it would be possible to have a plebiscite or an election, properly supervised by the UN, in which all the 11 million displaced persons, including the 4 million who are now outside Syria, are fully entitled to vote”.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, we are a long way off the pathway to peace, but one principle—which I know the noble Baroness shares strongly—that we need to make clear in following that pathway is that there is no impunity and that people who are responsible for crimes against humanity are held responsible, come what may.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
That is absolutely right and we will continue to take forward work with the United Nations and our allies to find a way in which those who have committed appalling crimes can be brought to justice. In particular, we are continuing to invest money in providing a way in which robust evidence that would stand up in the case of prosecutions can be collected and stored—and I pay tribute to the brave people who are collecting that evidence.
Lord Wright of Richmond (CB)
My Lords, in view of a rather more positive interpretation of what the Foreign Secretary told the committee of the noble Lord, Lord Howell, can the Minister tell us whether the Foreign Office is considering any installation of a diplomatic presence in Damascus?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, certainly not. We have found in the past that Assad is an unreliable person in the dealings we have had with him. It would not be appropriate to show that we trust him in any way, because he is not to be trusted.
Baroness Northover (LD)
My Lords, if the Foreign Secretary is shifting his position on Syrian elections, does the Minister agree that there needs to be a constitutional agreement to restrict current autocratic powers and, therefore, are we supporting Syrian civil society organisations and others in drafting such changes?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I repeat that our position and policy have not changed. What the Foreign Secretary was trying to say, in his inimitable manner, to the Select Committee is that in the real world it is for the Syrians to decide. It is their decision; it is not for us to impose a solution on them. That has been our position throughout. With regard to the shape of any constitution, we would not wish to dictate that. It is for the Syrian people to be given an opportunity to discuss how that may be achieved.
Lord Tebbit (Con)
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that I agree with her very much that it is not for us to decide who should be the President of Syria? But surely, once we take the step of saying who should not be the President, we are in effect transgressing against that very good principle that she just set out.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I said that President Assad has shown that he cannot be trusted. He has led to the deaths of something like 400,000 of his own people, has put tens of thousands in detention— I have met some of those who have experienced torture at the hands of people there—and has failed to provide a secure future for his country without the air power of countries such as Iran and Russia. That is somebody whom we do not see as being capable of providing a political solution and providing peace. However, what we are doing, and continue to do, through the UN Geneva process is to provide the opportunity for the Syrians to decide this matter. Whatever our view is, it is for the Syrians to decide.
Lord Hain (Lab)
My Lords, is not the very problem with our foreign policy that, to use our own phrase, we have tried to dictate what should happen, not having learned the lessons from Northern Ireland that you do not impose preconditions when trying to resolve a conflict? To demand at the beginning with a bit of bombast and bluster that Assad must go—he was never going to—then say that he should stay for only six months, and now say that he cannot stand for re-election, is a failed strategy which is contributing to a disastrous catastrophe. Why do the Government not change course and recognise that he has to be negotiated with and a transition agreed?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, the noble Lord has interpreted what has been said in a way that is not accurate. Throughout this process we have always stressed that it is for the Syrians to decide this matter. We have also said that Assad cannot be trusted. That has been proven by his past relationship with us. The peace process is one in which the opposition groups need to come together in security to discuss the future. The Syrian Government have, of course, been part of that process. That is the objective of the UN procedure. That is why the Geneva process, which we hope and expect will be reconvened by Staffan de Mistura later this month, provides an opportunity for the future. As I said, it is not for us to dictate. We have said that we do not think Assad can lead the country to a peaceful future. The Syrians need to have a chance to decide that for themselves. That is what we are trying to provide.
Lord Green of Deddington (CB)
My Lords, do the Government recognise that a considerable number of people in the government-held areas are supportive of President Assad? That includes the minorities, including Christians, and a lot of women who have had far more opportunities under the regime in Syria than elsewhere in the Middle East. Do the Government recognise—this is the key point on which I entirely agree with the noble Lord—that the collapse of this regime would lead to the most terrible revenge killing throughout Syria? We cannot allow that. We should keep our fingers out.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, where I entirely agree with the noble Lord is that nobody wants to see the collapse of the country. Whether it is the collapse of the regime by negotiated means is a different matter. But, as I stressed, the important thing is for the international community to give the Syrian people the opportunity not just to come together as they are doing at the moment, meeting in separate rooms in the same city, but ultimately to meet in the same room and come to a peaceful conclusion.
Russia
Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts(7 years, 8 months ago)
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Lord Balfe
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether, in the light of the change of administration in the United States, they intend to re-evaluate United Kingdom relations with Russia.
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)
My Lords, the Government’s objectives on Russia have not changed. They remain to protect UK interests and those of our allies, uphold the rules-based international order in the face of Russian challenges, engage with Russia in key areas of shared interest, promote our values including the rule of law and human rights, and build stronger links between the British and Russian peoples. The new Administration in the US do not alter these objectives.
Lord Balfe (Con)
I thank the Minister for her Answer. Do the Government understand that there was considerable anger in the United States at what was seen as Europe—not Britain, but Europe—not pulling its weight, particularly in defence matters? People in Louisiana cannot see why they pay 3.3% while people in Latvia, in return for an Article 5 guarantee, pay 1.1%. Therefore it is not unreasonable that the new United States Administration may be seeking a further means of détente. Will we support them in so far as we can?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, when my right honourable friend the Prime Minister met President Trump last week, she confirmed not only that they had agreed to lay the groundwork for a future trade deal but that he had confirmed that he was 100% behind NATO. However, it is right that all members of NATO pay their fair share. We shall certainly encourage other members to do so. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister also advised clearly that in relations with Russia, it is a matter of “engage but beware”.
Lord Davies of Stamford (Lab)
Would we not send the most dangerous and perverse signal to Russia, and indeed to any potential aggressor anywhere in the world, and greatly undermine the credibility of the western world if we were to lift sanctions without Russia having begun to fulfil her obligations under the Minsk agreements?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has made it absolutely clear that we will support the continuation of sanctions until and unless all the aspects of the Minsk agreements are met. That is essential.
Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)
My Lords, do the Government agree that the treatment of Russian minorities in the Baltic states has been unhelpful to harmony with Russia? If so, what are they and the multicultural but ineffective European Union doing about it?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I would say many things about the European Union, but I would never call it ineffectual. It is because of some of its effects, perhaps, that the British people decided that they wished to leave the European Union when they cast their votes last year. With regard to the specific issue of ethnic minorities, as I made clear in my Answer, we are a strong supporter of human rights. We will continue to argue that point in our relationship with Russia.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, given the importance of co-ordinating our relations with Russia with our European partners, particularly with regard to Ukraine and the other countries round Russia’s western border, how do the Government intend to maintain that close co-ordination as we withdraw from the mechanisms of European foreign policy co-operation?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, on a previous occasion I have been able to make it clear that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is already putting in place the opportunity to expand our network throughout the other member states of the European Union. Our bilateral relationships should therefore remain strong and develop to be even stronger as and when we leave the European Union.
Viscount Waverley (CB)
My Lords, would it be helpful if the Government, in the Security Council, resolved to endeavour to complete uncompleted Wilsonian principles as to when the right of self-determination supersedes that of territorial integrity, to remove all question of doubt?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, we can learn from history. We can certainly learn to engage with Russia and to engage even more closely with our allies in the United States, as I mentioned yesterday. Sometimes it seems at the moment that policy development is, in the polite phrase that I think I used, evolving and rather confusing. That makes it difficult to be able to give the noble Viscount a satisfactory answer at this particular moment.
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)
My Lords, will my noble friend take this opportunity, amid all the media froth, to emphasise the importance of the commitment which the Prime Minister obtained from President Trump to NATO, on which the security of Europe and indeed the West depends?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, as I mentioned a moment ago, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister indeed raised that very issue in the press conference. It is absolutely vital that we have that commitment, and it has been given by President Trump.
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)
My Lords, if we can learn from history, as the Minister states, could she say whether her department does an assessment and evaluation after state visits? Did it do so after President Putin visited the country and might it repeat that in the future?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, matters relating to state visits are decided by a committee whose members come from across Whitehall, including of course from No. 10 Downing Street. I am sure that all departments reflect on the success of every single state visit.
Lord Marlesford (Con)
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that one of the things that international diplomacy should seek is common ground between all these countries? In the case of the United States and Russia—and of course us—one important bit of common ground is fighting ISIS. We can also bring in the other two permanent members of the Security Council, France and China, on that. But apart from the military aspect, the aim should be to ensure secular rather than theocratic Governments. That is the only long-term route to peace.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, we of course work towards the principle that it is for the people of the country to decide the status of any Government in free and fair elections, which should include votes for every single person qualifying and involve no duress. I would not say that I would ban one particular type of democratic government, if properly chosen. With regard to the unity of the strongest powers in the world—as the P5 at the UN may be defined—it is essential that we find common ground to resolve conflicts. I am delighted that Russia, Turkey and Iran all recognised, at the Astana talks on Syria, the primacy of the UN in resolving those issues.
Recent Changes to US Immigration Policy
Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts(7 years, 8 months ago)
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The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)
My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat a Statement made in another place by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary. The Statement is as follows:
“Mr Speaker, with permission, I should like to make a Statement on the implications for this country of recent changes in US immigration policy.
In view of the understandable concern and uncertainty, it may be helpful if I describe for the House the consequences for British citizens and dual nationals of the executive order issued last Friday. Let me begin by saying that this is not UK policy—this is not our policy—or a measure that the UK would ever introduce. I have already made clear our anxiety about measures that discriminate on grounds of nationality in ways that are divisive and wrong.
On 27 January, President Trump issued an executive order banning the citizens of seven countries from entering the US for a period of 90 days. Those countries are Syria, Iraq, Iran, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Sudan. The order makes clear that no US visas will be issued to citizens of those states, and anyone who already has a visa will be denied entry.
The immigration policy of the United States is of course a matter for the Government of the United States, but on the face of it this executive order had consequences for some British citizens. For that reason, I spoke yesterday to the US Administration, and my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has today spoken to General Kelly, the Secretary of Homeland Security. I am able to provide the following clarification.
The general principle is that all British passport holders remain welcome to travel to the US. We have received assurances from the US embassy that this executive order will make no difference to any British passport holders, irrespective of their country of birth or whether they hold another passport. In any case, the executive order is a temporary measure intended to last for 90 days until the US system has added new security precautions. This is of course a highly controversial policy that has caused unease, and I repeat that this is not an approach that this Government would take.
Let me conclude by reminding the House of the vital importance of this country’s alliance with the United States. On defence, intelligence and security, we work together more closely than any other two countries in the world. That relationship is overwhelmingly to our benefit. The Prime Minister’s highly successful visit to the White House last week underlined the strength of that transatlantic alliance. Where we have differences with the US, we shall not quail from expressing them, as I have done so today, and as the Prime Minister did in Philadelphia last week. But I will also repeat our resolve to work alongside the Trump Administration in the mutual interest of both countries. I commend this Statement to the House”.
My Lords, that concludes the Statement.
Baroness Northover (LD)
My Lords, I too thank the noble Baroness for repeating the Statement, and I welcome the fact that the Foreign Secretary has described the new US immigration policy as “divisive and wrong”—it surely is.
Can I point out that, as originally announced, this policy would have swept up the noble Baroness, Lady Afshar, who might have had the uncertain privilege of risking jail if she returned to her home country of Iran, yet being expelled if she tried to enter the so-called liberal democracy of the USA? As someone who benefited from that liberal democracy by being able to pursue all my postgraduate study in the United States, I find this development almost unbelievable. It was an astonishing action to take in relation to refugees on Holocaust Memorial Day.
What assessment has been made of the potential backlash from countries identified and from Muslim communities worldwide, and what impact might this policy have on British citizens, including aid workers, army personnel and diplomatic staff living and working in these countries? Do the Government agree that the policy potentially promotes, rather than limits, instability and insecurity? Might we even have seen evidence of that divisiveness in the utterly inexcusable act of terrorism that we have just seen in Canada, whose leader was wonderfully forthright in rejecting his neighbour’s policy?
Does the Minister agree that working together with our European allies is, right now, even more important than it ever was, in the light of the unpredictable and reactionary nature of the current US Administration? What are we doing in pivoting away from Europe towards the US? Does she agree that, even though President Trump’s apparent commitment to NATO may be welcome, we cannot rely on what he seemed to agree? Does she agree that, although trade with the US is important to us, it is dwarfed by that with the EU as a whole, and that expanding it is less a matter of tariffs and more a matter of standards and regulation, and that none of us would wish to lower our standards in agricultural products to enable an increase in that trade—an increase which experts estimate may amount to only 2%?
In conclusion, will the Minister strongly reaffirm that, even in our exposed post-referendum position, the UK Government will not in future hesitate before we make it plain that we will not stand by when there are such assaults on the liberal international order—rather, we will challenge both the ideology and actions that are illustrated by the orders emerging from the Trump Administration in their very first week?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I believe that both my right honourable friend the Prime Minister and my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary have made it very clear that they consider that the executive order was wrong and divisive. I think that that covers much of what the noble Baroness has referred to there.
With regard to its impact on people around the world, time will tell, but of course the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and all its personnel around the world stand ready to assist anybody who feels that they may be unsettled or be in any difficulty as a result of any opinions expressed in those countries. The noble Baroness raises an important point on that matter.
The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked in particular about our view on refugees. For us, the implications are quite simple: we do not resile from any of our undertakings to international law and international humanitarian law. The UNHCR and the IOM remain strong partners for the UK in delivering our humanitarian and development response to the refugee crisis. Of course we will need to wait and understand any impact of US decisions on their operations, but we will look very carefully, and our commitment to them remains.
I was asked why the Prime Minister did not immediately condemn the executive order on Saturday. That was for two reasons, but the prime one was that on Saturday we were waiting to have clarification about the implications for the range of those who carry British passports, and to think before we acted. Also, as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister made clear yesterday, with regard to international relations it is the Foreign Secretary who takes action and with regard to issues of immigration it is the Home Secretary who takes action, and therefore they pursued these matters at the earliest opportunity.
I was asked whether an assessment has been made in the UK about upholding our obligations. As I say, the assessment is that we maintain our obligations on refugees.
I was also asked about those who are legally resident here and whether their ability to travel to the United States has been compromised. The US embassy web page has been updated to clarify that matter, and it says that, additionally, those who have indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom and hold nationality of one of these countries are eligible to apply for US visas. So they are eligible to apply for visas.
Clearly, this is a matter where we should work with all our allies, both within the European Union and worldwide, to ensure that all of us understand our duties in international law—and, beyond international law, humanitarian law and our simple duty as humanitarians in these issues.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, clearly there were private conversations happening with the Prime Minister on Friday, and there was a public press conference, and I am not going to add to those. But it certainly became clear, when the executive order was published, what the text of that was. As I am sure my noble friend will be aware, the position has been, from the point of view of the United States at least, rather evolving and, let us say, confusing.
Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon (LD)
My Lords, the noble Baroness said that the Prime Minister’s visit was a success. Does she realise why there are many in Britain who regard her scramble to be the first through the doors of Mr Trump’s house as both unseemly and ill judged? Did she not realise when she went there that Mr Trump has specifically made it clear that he wishes to see the break-up of the European Union? Does she not realise that to be the first through that door in the way she did is bound to ensure that she is treated with greater suspicion when she comes to bargain on our behalf with the members of the European Union? For a little PR and a distant promise of some trade deal that we do not know any details about, she has damaged her ability to get a decent deal for this country in the thing that really matters.
As for the invitation for a state visit, I make this prediction. I do not know whether it will embarrass Her Majesty—she will do her duty, no doubt, as she always does—but I promise that this will end up embarrassing the Government and, in the face of the huge public demonstrations against him, end up embarrassing the highly volatile, thin-skinned US President. I cannot see how that helps anybody.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
I have never known my right honourable friend the Prime Minister to scramble or be undignified, and I have known her for some long while. She demonstrated her dignity and statesmanship when she was in the United States, and she will continue to do so as she fights for British interests. It is the case that the United States, as the noble Lord is well aware, is our oldest and strongest ally—historically, as I was always reminded by one noble Lord, Portugal beats them in time, of course—and certainly it is our strongest ally. For the sake of world peace, it is right that that alliance should remain so. However, as the Prime Minister said, she will make clear her views; when we disagree, we will make it clear.
Yes, indeed, Her Majesty the Queen has issued an invitation to President Trump. Details of the date and arrangements have not been announced, but I would judge that the people of this country will act with dignity as well at the time.
Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)
My Lords, would the Minister say very clearly—I think she is about half way there—whether or not we regard the action taken by the US Administration, in particular the action on refugees, as consistent with their having signed and ratified the 1967 protocol to the 1951 convention? Secondly, would she say whether the British Government consider that the action that has been taken by the US Administration is likely to reduce the threat from terrorism or, possibly, make it worse?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, on threats of terrorism I rely on the advice of our security agencies and border security, to whom I pay great credit. I saw them in operation when I returned earlier this month from a Foreign and Commonwealth meeting overseas. I have great respect for the work that they do. I am not going to jump to any conclusions here or announce the results of any assessment. It will be for those in the United Nations to take a view on the matter of law and whether this is a breach of the 1951 convention. I would hope that advice was taken before the order was issued.
Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)
My Lords, I welcome what the Minister has said about refugees, but it is not clear what the British Government have said to the US Government, particularly regarding the blanket, open-ended exclusion of refugees from Syria, which must clearly contravene the obligations under the refugee convention and protocol. What has been said to the US Government on this specific issue?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, the fact that we have said this is divisive and wrong encompasses that as well, as does the fact that we would not carry out a similar act. That covers the fact that this is not the way we would behave towards refugees. The Home Secretary has of course made it clear that it is important to understand whom one is describing when one talks about refugees, and to take into account the security of a nation in the way one screens those arriving in one’s own country. We make careful efforts to do that, but that also means that we would not use this kind of executive order.
Baroness Falkner of Margravine (LD)
My Lords, the Minister tells the House that the reason the Prime Minister hesitated—if I can describe it that way—was because she was waiting to be on top of the facts and they were not clear when it originally happened. When moderate Muslims in this country—I hate to describe myself in that way; I prefer to use the phrase secular Muslim—are constantly exhorted to fight radical elements in our midst, we take up that challenge. Does the Minister accept that in return we expect our Government, whether they are waiting for facts or not, to speak with a clear, moral voice when actions are wrong and simply say, as Angela Merkel has, that it is wrong to generalise among entire countries of people? That is what we expect to hear from our Prime Minister and it was extremely sad to hear her. It made communities in this country extremely nervous. It is only by luck that Pakistanis, large numbers of whom are in this country, are not on this list, although we know that Pakistan is a source of terrorism. For some inexplicable, illogical reason, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are not on the list but they could have been and it would have affected tens of thousands of people in this country.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, as I have said before, my right honourable friends the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister have made it clear that this is divisive and wrong. I do not know what could be clearer than that. Today we have had the opportunity to give the detail of the implications for those who hold British passports, and they are still welcome in the United States. The noble Baroness referred to other countries. I appreciate that the list is of seven countries whose nationals President Obama had previously said would have to apply for visas and not be able to use the visa waiver scheme. The question of Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan is one for the US Administration, not us.
Lord Blencathra (Con)
My Lords, when my noble friend gets back to her office, will she look at an article entitled “One million sign a petition” on the BBC news website and then scroll down to look at the 5,000 plus comments? She, and the whole House, would find it interesting. There is overwhelming condemnation of the “synthetic outrage” at the ban. She will see that there is massive support for President Trump coming here; that there is recognition that it is not a ban on Muslims; that the list of countries was drawn up by Obama, who banned everyone coming from Iraq for six months; and that the President was merely implementing what he promised to do when he was standing for election—a nice change from Obama. On the BBC website the silent majority are not opposed to the President’s visit and are not outraged.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I have carefully noted that, whenever President Trump has been asked about these matters, he has sought to stress the fact that it is not about Muslims, it is about the countries concerned. It is important for those who are responsible for carrying out the processes by which people now enter the US to hear that.
Lord Judd (Lab)
Does the Minister agree that the real tragedy in this situation is that, faced with global insecurity and dangers on an unprecedented scale, the challenge, above all else, is to build bridges, make friends and win good will? A few hasty words, ill thought out in their consequences, can do immense damage to that cause. If we really are going to make this relationship with the States so important, we have to undertake a huge battle with our friends in government there to persuade them to take the course of reconciliation and understanding. The underlying issue is that we will ultimately secure a peaceful world by winning minds and hearts, not by executive orders.
Baroness Berridge (Con)
My Lords, the devil is often in the detail, so I would be grateful if the Minister clarified that, although British residents are eligible to apply for visas to travel to the United States, the Printed Paper Office copy of the Statement outlines that they could face additional screening at US airports. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s own website still states that dual nationals will be affected: that they might have extra checks if they are,
“coming from one of the 7 countries themselves – for example a UK-Libya dual national coming from Libya to the US”.
Can the Minister clarify that point? In your Lordships’ House on 16 November, I raised the issue of whether US immigration policy would be applied to UK citizens, irrespective of their faith or belief. On that occasion, the Minister quoted the policy of US Customs and Border Protection, which clarified that:
“The religion, faith, or spiritual beliefs of an international traveller are not determining factors about … admissibility into the US”.—[Official Report, 16/11/16; col. 1425.]
If there are to be extra checks for British residents or dual nationals, as outlined on the website, will the Minister assure the House that the United States will be applying those checks, irrespective of the faith or belief held by that British resident or national, and that British dual nationals who happen to be Muslims will not face different checks from those who happen to be Christians or Hindus?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
I can assure my noble friend that that is the position as we understand it, as it is the existing direction given to those who carry out the checks. The FCO website says:
“The only dual nationals who might have extra checks are those coming from one of the 7 countries themselves – for example a UK-Libya dual national coming from Libya to the US”.
This was merely a caveat; a slight warning that there is likely to be longer queues for those going into the US. All of us who have travelled to the United States know how long those queues can be. It is just a cautionary matter in an evolving and confusing time at the US end. There will still be time for this to work through. Of course, this is only for a 90-day period, subject to evaluation, and we understand that there are legal challenges in some US states.
Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)
My Lords, before she went to Washington, the Prime Minister suggested that she was going to “speak truth to Trump”. At the press conference on Friday, it appeared that she may have made some progress on NATO and torture, yet her response to the executive orders was that the United States was responsible for its policy on refugees. Does the Prime Minister understand that there is a difference between refugee policy and immigration policy? Can we call on the Minister to ask the Prime Minister to tell the President of the United States that his action is in breach of international law? The Foreign Secretary telling Members of the House of Commons about the rights of UK nationals is one thing, but if anything is speaking “truth to Trump”, it is saying that this policy on refugees is morally abhorrent and illegal.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, as I have already mentioned, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has made it clear that this policy is wrong and is not one that we would adopt. But, clearly, Governments make policy. We did not make this one and, as I have said, we would not make it. We could not make that clearer to President Trump if we tried. The whole issue of international law is a matter for lawyers to construe. I am sure that we and all the members of the United Nations will work on this issue to see whether it is compatible with international law, as the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, raised.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, the Minister just referred to the importance of international law. I press her further on the point raised by the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Hannay, my noble friend and the noble Baroness. Are the law officers being asked to give advice to the Government, so that not only we but our many friends who sit in the American Congress can evaluate what they have to say about our commitments under the Geneva convention? That is, after all, one of the bulwarks which will ensure that these executive orders are given proper scrutiny in future. They could then see what the obligations are in law and come to their own conclusions. What consideration has the Minister given to our counterterrorism strategy? Does she accept that the inability to understand the difference in our own narrative between a faithful Muslim who prays in a mosque each week and lives their lives by the tenets of their faith, and those involved in jihadist activities supporting Boko Haram, al-Shabaab, al-Qaeda or ISIS, plays into the hands of those very groups?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, indeed it is very much the cornerstone of security policy in this country to ensure that one can differentiate between those who effect the outward trappings of devotion and those who have faith, and that one can determine who is a threat to security and who is not. Regarding advice on legal matters, as far as I am aware, the law officers advise the UK Government about their own legal responsibilities. However, my expectation is that there would be discussions at an international level—say, in the United Nations—on the implications of the United States’ actions. That would be for the United Nations to decide, not this country. I do not think we could have made clearer the UK Government’s view on this divisive and wrong policy.
Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)
My Lords, the Minister seems to be saying that there is not much opposition to President Trump visiting the United Kingdom. I have just left a demonstration in Whitehall involving thousands of people. They streamed over into Parliament Square saying, “We do not want this visit. We do not want to embarrass our sovereign, ourselves and our Parliament by having him here”. This is not happening just in London. If you went to Bangor, Aberystwyth, Swansea or Cardiff tonight, you would find demonstrations there and everywhere. I imagine that there will be as many as 50 or 60 demonstrations going on throughout the United Kingdom. Is the Minister aware of people’s feelings about what is happening in the United States, and that we do not want to be tarred with the same brush?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I think Hansard will make it clear that I said nothing of the sort. With regard to the state visit, I said that I expected that British people would act with dignity, which can encompass making one’s view known. In this country we have freedom of expression, which is a great privilege not enjoyed by all countries around the world. I wish that it were.
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean (Lab)
My Lords, the noble Baroness spoke about those who have indefinite leave to remain, and how they may be treated in the future. Will UK consular services be available to those with indefinite leave to remain who may get caught up in additional screening at their port of entry? In the past, we have had consular access in certain cases for not just foreign citizens but those with indefinite leave to remain. Can she shed any light on that?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
I will certainly make inquiries about that. As the noble Baroness is aware more than most, having been a Minister with responsibility for these matters, normally the guidance is that those in our posts around the world give information and advice only to those who hold British passports. There is the added inhibition that we do not normally provide consular assistance to those who hold dual nationality in countries which do not recognise that dual nationality. However, we do waive that in certain cases and provide advice and assistance, as in the case of Mrs Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe. I will make inquiries about the specific matter of those who are not nationals or dual nationals and do not hold a British passport but have the legal right to remain.
Brexit: UK International Relations
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The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)
My Lords, I add my good wishes to my noble friend Lord Howell and I hope that he is soon restored to good health. I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Jopling for stepping in to lead our debate today, which gives noble Lords the opportunity to address some of the vast range of issues encompassed by the two Motions before the House. The heart of the matter is the role of the UK in the world once we have left the EU. I shall seek to reflect on some of these issues in my response today.
The history and culture of this country is profoundly internationalist. We have for centuries been an outward-looking nation—a nation whose success has been built on the alliances and relationships that we have made around the world. As the Prime Minister said recently, we want the United Kingdom to be more outward-looking than ever. We remain absolutely committed to maintaining—and in fact reinforcing—our links with old friends, and building relationships with new allies too. My noble friend Lady Hooper was right to refer to Latin America. In recent months, I have visited Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras, though I am sad to say that, with Honduras, it was 17 years since a UK Minister had visited. My noble friend’s stricture has indeed been heeded. The noble Lord, Lord Reid, reminded us of the stark and important fact that we can no longer keep to traditional thinking about how international relationships work, because of the rise of non-state actors and the danger that they pose in so many parts of the world. I assure him that in the FCO we take that into account and it is certainly part of the way in which we discuss these matters with those in the diplomatic academy.
To our European neighbours, we will continue to be reliable partners, willing allies and close friends. We will support them as they take the EU forward to the next stage of its journey, because it remains overwhelmingly in Britain’s national interest that the EU should succeed. The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, raised a particular issue about a strong and stable neighbourhood in the Balkans. We certainly want to maintain that and we remain of the view that the EU accession process is fundamental to delivering security, stability and prosperity. So we will continue to support countries that are committed to the accession process, as long as they meet the necessary requirements.
Beyond Europe, we will maintain and strengthen our existing partnerships, above all with the United States. The special relationship is as important as ever. The fact that, tomorrow, the Prime Minister will be the first world leader to have a meeting with President Trump following his inauguration is testament to the strength of that relationship. It is a relationship based on shared values: a commitment to freedom, democracy and enterprise. That is why it is right that we engage fully with the Trump Administration to continue our work. There may indeed be areas where we disagree, but fundamentally the US and UK remain natural, strong and resilient partners and allies. I have been asked by several noble Lords to clarify one area where we will, it seems, disagree with the US—let us wait and see—which is the use of torture. The Brexit Secretary told Members in another place that:
“The British Government’s stance on torture is very plain: we do not condone it and we do not agree with it in any circumstances whatever”.
At a committee hearing in this House, the Foreign Secretary said that the Prime Minister was,
“clear that our principled position and our objection to torture remains unchanged”.
Indeed, the Prime Minister referred to this at Question Time yesterday and made it clear that we would not be dragged into a position where we condoned the use of torture.
As we leave the EU, our relations with the US will become more important than ever. We look forward to a strong special relationship continuing under President Trump. The economic relationship between our countries remains special, too. We should not forget that our exports to the US were worth £100 billion in 2015, a fifth of total UK exports, more than double those to our next biggest market, Germany, and five times those to China. The US is the single biggest source of inward investment to the UK, with a total stock of £253 billion. We look to the results of the Prime Minister’s discussions tomorrow with President Trump. Several noble Lords asked me to forecast what might be discussed and what might be the outcome. I think that I will leave that until I know the result and shall deal with it in future debates.
Many noble Lords have stressed the importance of our relationships with the United Nations. The UK has long been one of the most active UN member states, and that is as it should be. As we leave the European Union, we will continue to play a leading role in this vital institution. We remain a permanent member of the Security Council—the P5—a leading international donor and a strong champion of human rights. We are the only major country which will simultaneously meet the NATO target of spending 2% of our GDP on defence—I hear what my noble friend Lord Jopling said; it can sometimes be more than that—and the UN target of spending 0.7% of our GNI on development. I stress that we will continue to persuade other NATO members that they should increase their defence spending.
We remain a passionate advocate for the women, peace and security agenda and the sustainable development goals. We know that building prosperity for all is vital for long-term stability. That is why we continue to work hard to increase women’s participation in all areas of life, stamp out corruption, reduce poverty and tackle climate change. We work closely with a wide range of like-minded partners at the UN, including EU member states, the G7, members of the Commonwealth and other regional groupings.
Noble Lords were right to remind us of the importance of the Commonwealth and the importance of saying why we value it so strongly. The Commonwealth does not work as a recognised regional group in the UN. I discussed that with representatives of the Commonwealth at a special meeting I convened during the ministerial week last September. Nevertheless, there are areas where we can work more closely with Commonwealth members in a way that supports our shared objectives. As an organisation with immense global reach, the Commonwealth has huge potential to exert influence on issues of global importance. I am glad to say that we are offering support, including financial contributions, to the small states offices in Geneva and New York to enable some of the Commonwealth’s smaller members to participate fully in UN business. I am pleased to say that I am looking forward to the first ever meeting of Commonwealth Trade Ministers, which will be hosted in London in March this year, and to the next meeting of the Commonwealth Heads of Government, which will take place in the UK next year. Last but not least, we take an active role in the Geneva group of major funders of the UN to push for continued reform and value for money.
At this point I turn to the Select Committee’s report on the priorities for the new UN Secretary-General. We welcome the Select Committee’s timely report and support most of the recommendations. The government response was published earlier this month and is available in the Printed Paper Office to be read in full. Indeed, some noble Lords quoted some of the recommendations. We absolutely agree with the committee that the UN is a vital institution to help resolve disputes peacefully, to preserve the rules-based international order, to protect human rights and to promote sustainable development. The Security Council, the General Assembly and the other bodies all play important roles. As we leave the EU, we will remain actively engaged in the full range of UN activity and will promote reforms to strengthen the UN’s ability to meet future challenges.
One of those challenges, of course, is on refugees and migration. The Prime Minister has set out three guiding principles: refugees should claim asylum in the “first safe country” they reach; states should exercise their right to protect their borders and commit to taking back their nationals; and there should be a clear distinction between refugees and economic migrants. We have made it clear that we must ensure we provide proper protection for refugees. We also want to allow global economies to enjoy the benefits of controlled migration, while providing protection for the most vulnerable migrants, including victims of that evil trade, human trafficking. We intend to take this forward in our engagement with the UN and other agencies. We agree with the committee that changes in geopolitics and other global trends present new challenges for the UN. We will work with other states through the UN system to ensure its continued relevance.
I will be delighted to do that alongside the new Secretary-General, whose appointment presents an opportunity for further reform of UN structures and delivery of its programmes, and to address modern challenges more effectively. We will continue to play a leading role in this regard, promoting reform across all the pillars of the UN’s work—a structure that has done so much to vitiate the best of attempts to bring the UN up to standard. It is vital to drive forward this reform. Our priorities, such as strengthening UN peacekeeping, preventing sexual violence in conflict and promoting the economic rights of women and girls, can be achieved only when there is strong UN reform.
António Guterres has made an impressive start to his tenure as UN Secretary-General. He is getting straight into the key policy issues and sending the right messages on UN reform, including on points highlighted in the Select Committee’s report. Mr Guterres has set out three high-level priorities, all of which have our full support: the UN’s work on peace; support for sustainable development; and improving the UN’s internal management.
I note the question from the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, with regard to the use of Article 99. The UK raised this point regularly during the General Assembly hearings with candidates who were seeking the position of Secretary-General, asking them how they would approach that, as I did when I met each of the candidates in advance of those hearings when they visited me here in London. We made it clear how important it was that the Secretary-General should make use of his power under Article 99.
During his first appearance at the UN Security Council on 10 January, Mr Guterres expanded on his idea of a “peace continuum”. His fresh thinking bears examination by us all and deserves our support as he develops it. I know that he will find difficulty in some areas. We have conflict prevention and resolution to tackle in countries such as South Sudan, Somalia, Libya and Yemen. The UK leads on many of these issues and we pledge to work closely with António Guterres’s team and other member states to strengthen the UN’s work on these matters.
The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, raised a specific question about accountability with regard to sexual exploitation and abuse, and asked which countries exercise the duty to prosecute. As he made clear, prosecutions are a matter for troop-contributing national courts, but I can say that Uruguay and Pakistan court-martialled their troops in Haiti for SEA, as did South Africa in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Egypt claims to have prosecuted its troops, although I do not have further information on that at the moment. No doubt I will press Egypt on that.
On sustainable development, Mr Guterres has appointed an excellent deputy Secretary-General, Mrs Amina Mohammed, who was instrumental in building consensus on the 2030 sustainable development goals. The UK supports their reform plans, which include closer integration of humanitarian and development assistance. I wish the new deputy Secretary-General well.
On internal management, the Secretary-General has rightly highlighted the need to streamline procedures in areas such as staff recruitment and deployment. As UN High Commissioner for Refugees, he made efficiency savings by moving back-office functions to lower-cost locations. The UK will work with like-minded member states to support sensible reforms of this kind. The Prime Minister met the UN Secretary-General in Davos on 17 January. They had a substantive meeting, which included discussion of the recent talks on Cyprus. There was much common ground. However, there is much common ground for all members of the United Nations to pursue, and I am glad that we have to assist us the advice of the Select Committee.
I will now draw my remarks to a close. Although I am aware that in theory I have 20 minutes, that would mean that my noble friend Lord Jopling would have no opportunity to respond, as earlier speeches overran rather severely. In closing, therefore, I stress that we will use our departure from the EU as an opportunity to forge a new identity as an independent nation, ever more outward-looking and a force for good. We will continue to play a leading role in tackling the global challenges of our time: poverty and disease, mass migration, insecurity, conflict and climate change. It is absolutely in the UK’s interests that we do so. That is our vision for a truly global Britain.
Sudan
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Baroness Cox
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of recent developments in Sudan.
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)
My Lords, we remain concerned by the situation in Sudan, particularly the humanitarian situation in Darfur and the Two Areas. We welcome positive steps, such as extension of the unilateral ceasefire by the Sudanese Government and conclusion of the first phase of the national dialogue, coupled with assurances that this process remains open to the participation of opposition groups. We welcome our frank engagement on human rights, on which we need to see more progress.
Baroness Cox (CB)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for her sympathetic reply. Is she aware that I have just recently returned from the Nuba mountains? I saw there first-hand evidence of the Sudanese Government’s continuing destruction of homes and schools in military offensives and aerial bombardment of civilians who have been forced to live in caves with deadly snakes. I met a girl who had been bitten by a cobra and a father whose five children had been burnt alive when a shell hit the cave in which they were sheltering. They have no healthcare, acute shortages of food and there has recently been a measles epidemic in which at least 20 children are known to have died. Will Her Majesty’s Government urgently reconsider the obligation to provide cross-border aid to save the lives of these innocent civilians, as the people of the Nuba mountains and Blue Nile cannot accept aid from the Khartoum Government, who are killing them?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, humanitarian assistance is indeed a high priority for the UK and the international community, as is finding a lasting peace settlement. As part of the peace process, the US reached an agreement with the Sudanese Government on humanitarian access to the Two Areas. We believe this offered a real opportunity to provide support to the people of the Two Areas and to allow the current ceasefire to be made permanent. We were therefore disappointed that at a meeting of the troika envoys in Paris last week, the secretary-general of the SPLM-North—the opposition forces—rejected the offer. We remain in direct contact with organisations on the ground in the Nuba mountains, including with the SPLM-North itself. It is not suggesting to us that there has been a resumption in fighting. However, I am very grateful for the information provided by the noble Baroness in her report, which I have read. I reassure her that we will continue to monitor the situation closely and raise breaches of the ceasefire, when they occur, with the Government of Sudan.
Lord Sheikh (Con)
My Lords, the United States has agreed to lift sanctions which previously applied in Sudan. Will we now consider trading with Sudan and strengthening our educational and trade links with that country?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, we will continue to provide support to UK companies to understand the opportunities and challenges of operating in Sudan. However, we have been clear with the Government of Sudan that the current conflicts, human rights abuses and business environment remain obstacles to a sizeable increase in interest from British companies. We continue to urge them to make progress on these issues. The UK will continue to support the UN targeted sanctions for Darfur, as well as the EU arms embargo that remains in place across Sudan.
Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead (Lab)
My Lords, in South Sudan tens of thousands of people have been killed, there are 2.2 million displaced people, 4.6 million need food aid, and the economy has been absolutely destroyed. Despite this awful misery, South Sudan has been largely forgotten by the rest of the world. Does the Minister share the view that another Rwanda is looming, and accept the UN Secretary-General’s warning of a potential genocide in South Sudan? What will our Government do to ensure that the term “never again” has real meaning this time?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I perfectly understand the valuable reasons why the noble Baroness asks that question today—but perhaps she was unable to see that the Question on the Order Paper changed, and therefore South Sudan is no longer part of today’s Question. However, I reassure her that it will be on the Order Paper to be asked next week, and I will certainly address it at that stage. She is right to raise those questions. Indeed, some from South Sudan have fled to Sudan itself, and we are trying to assist with aid there.
Lord Chidgey (LD)
My Lords, the United States sanctions placed on Sudan because of the humanitarian and genocidal crimes in Darfur, the Nuba mountains and South Kordofan and Blue Nile states have apparently been lifted by executive order from the past United States President, in response to supposed positive actions. I think that the Minister acknowledges that the abuses have continued pretty well unabated, with humanitarian access still blocked, the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians, the refusal to rein in sexual violence throughout Darfur, and attacks by militia forces in South Kordofan and the Blue Nile. Apart from providing potential business investment opportunities, what positive relief has the Sudan dialogue and Khartoum process given to the oppressed and abused minorities in that region?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, there were several important points there. May I in response point out that when the US promised to lift economic sanctions it was on the basis of a raft of conditions, which will be assessed by July? The first condition is a ceasefire across the country. The noble Lord raised Darfur and the Two Areas, on which I thought I had already responded. The opposition forces there say that there has not been a breach. We are aware, however, of reports of clashes in Nertiti, Darfur. The problem is that we have not been able to verify those with people on the ground, because of the difficulty of access—but I assure the noble Lord that we shall continue trying to do so.
Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)
My Lords, has my noble friend noticed that the Chinese have about 8,000 troops in the peacekeeping force in Sudan—in southern Sudan? Might this not be an opportunity to review our own peacekeeping contribution, and indeed the mandate under which those people have to work, and also, in the longer term, to strengthen our security links directly with the Chinese Government?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, my noble friend is right to raise the question of the importance of being able to discuss with China the whole issue of security round the world—and indeed its contribution to the peacekeeping forces. I would again point out that the peacekeeping forces are in South Sudan and this Question is about Sudan—but I can reassure my noble friend that we are looking carefully at how the UK’s contribution to peacekeeping in South Sudan is being developed accordingly, including providing a stage 6 hospital there.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, would it not have been better if on 13 January, when Minister Tobias Ellwood welcomed the lifting of sanctions against the Republic of Sudan by the United States, he had said what the noble Baroness has said to the House this afternoon and made the following abundantly clear? When a regime is led by people who have been indicted by the International Criminal Court for genocide and crimes against humanity, and has been responsible, as we heard from my noble friend, for indiscriminate bombing of hospitals, schools and homes, the unlawful killing of civilians, the abduction and rape of women, the looting and destruction of entire villages, the alleged use of chemical weapons in Darfur, details of which I have sent to the noble Baroness, and the forced displacement of an estimated quarter of a million people—what the White House itself once described as a “stain on our soul”—surely it cannot be a case of business as usual.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord; indeed, it is not a case of business as usual because what is unusual now is that the Government of Sudan have agreed to a series of markers of progress they must make to maintain the removal of some of the sanctions that the US has imposed. The US has clearly set out how those sanctions will be lifted. As ever, the noble Lord raises a vital point about the International Criminal Court, international justice and the fact that al-Bashir himself is subject to an order under the ICC. I discussed those matters with members of the ICC when I attended the states parties meeting at the end of last year in The Hague, including with the South African Justice Minister, and I will continue to do so.
The Lord Bishop of Durham
My Lords, i recognise that improvements between the Anglican Church of Sudan and the Sudanese Government have occurred but it remains the case that, after over a year, there are two Sudanese pastors, one Czech aid worker and a Sudanese civil rights activist still in al-Huda prison in Omdurman under the death penalty. Human rights activists say that there is no case at all. What contact have Ministers with the Government of Sudan regarding these prisoners and the treatment of Christians more generally?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
The right reverend Prelate is right to raise these disturbing cases. We were pleased to hear about the release of the Reverend Kwa Shamal but remain very concerned about the fate of the three men who remain in detention charged with a number of crimes, including espionage and waging war against the Government. Together with our international partners, officials from our embassy in Khartoum regularly attend hearings. The next hearing is expected to be held on 29 January. It has been delayed. In addition, the UK embassy officials are in close contact with the lawyers representing the defendants. We will continue to monitor the case closely.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, I return to the question of impunity. Despite the best efforts of many Governments, including our own, we know that there has been extraordinary violence and breaches of human rights. What are the Government doing to ensure that we monitor and report human rights abuses and violations? How can we bring the people responsible to justice?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, we monitor human rights abuses through a wide range of sources, particularly with the NGOs which provide humanitarian aid across the region, and through the contacts that our own and other embassies have. This is a case where the international community must, and does, co-operate. However, as the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, pointed out, in some areas it is exceedingly difficult to get accurate information.
Iran: Human Rights
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The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)
I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Clarke of Hampstead, for securing this debate. The fact that it is the second on Iran this year does not mean that there are too many. It is important that this House holds both the Government of this country and the Government of Iran to account on the issue of human rights and how we press the Government of Iran to improve their responses on human rights.
First, I intend to set out our assessment of the human rights position in Iran, and then I will turn to the consular cases, which are much in people’s minds and hearts at this moment. The human rights situation in Iran, as noble Lords have made clear, continues to be of serious concern—certainly of serious concern to the British Government. It is clear that the Government of Iran could and should do more to improve the rights and freedoms of its citizens. The United Kingdom has consistently pressed Iran to improve its human rights record, both through bilateral engagement and with our international partners, including through the UN and the EU. We continue to do so. This is vital to ensure that human rights in Iran continue to be given prominence in discussions, and also to maintain pressure on Iran to abide by its international obligations. Last year we strongly supported the renewal of the mandate of the UN special rapporteur and, in December, we welcomed the UN General Assembly’s adoption of the Resolution on Human Rights in Iran. I am pleased that the resolution passed with an increased number of votes in favour—in part due to UK lobbying efforts.
The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised the specific issue of what the Government have been doing to follow up on the matter of support for the UN special rapporteur. We continue to call on Iran to allow the UN special rapporteur access to the country to carry out the mandate and for Iran to move towards ending the death penalty, providing equal rights for women, and ending discrimination against ethnic and religious minorities. Those are indeed the areas of concern that have been raised by noble Lords.
First, on the continued and extensive use of the death penalty, the British Government are firmly opposed to the death penalty, in all circumstances and in every country. We regularly raise this issue with Iran, bilaterally and through action with the international community. We are also, as noble Lords have said, particularly concerned about the number of executions of individuals who were minors when convicted, which continues despite Iran being a signatory to international conventions that prohibit juveniles being sentenced to death.
The noble Lord, Lord Clarke, among others, raised the issue of alleged executions in 1988. What I can say is that at the moment the UK is in the position of having very little corroborated evidence of the reported massacre of political prisoners in 1988. I certainly hear what noble Lords have said. I have in the past expressed at the Dispatch Box that if there was corroborated evidence, we would be able to take action. At the moment, the Iranian Government have repeatedly denied that it took place, although noble Lords have graphically set out what they and certainly many people believe took place.
The treatment of women in Iran is another important area of concern. The special rapporteur’s October 2016 report highlights continuing unequal treatment of men and women. It is absolutely clear that women continue to face discrimination—travel restrictions being one example. Married women need the consent of their husbands to leave the country. They cannot obtain or renew a passport if their husbands refuse to sign the required paperwork. This is surely completely unacceptable in the 21st century.
Like the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, we too are concerned by continuing restrictions on freedom of expression. Dissent is not widely tolerated, and the Government control the majority of newspapers, as well as TV and radio channels. They systematically block access to information and restrict free speech on the internet. Last month, restrictions were placed on the most popular social media platform, Telegram. The most followed users now have to seek official permission to operate. There have also been reports of Telegram channels being hacked by the Iranian cyberpolice. If true, this is a clear attempt to silence and intimidate independent voices within the country. The UK, along with our EU partners, has already placed sanctions on the Iranian cyberpolice following reports of other hacking activity carried out by them.
Sadly, as my noble friend Lord McInnes set out so clearly this evening, the Iranian state also continues to discriminate against certain religious groups and minorities. That includes continuing persecution of followers of the Baha’i faith. Last November, many businesses owned by followers of the Baha’i faith closed temporarily to observe their holy days. The Iranian authorities’ reaction was permanently to close down 100 of these businesses. This discrimination is completely unacceptable. An inclusive, free and fair society is in the best interests of everyone in Iran. I was pleased to join other distinguished panellists for a discussion on this very subject at a UK Baha’i community event last year. Christians face similar types of discrimination. There have been reports of house church leaders and Christian converts being arrested or harassed by security services, and of Church property being confiscated. These actions by the Iranian authorities are not commensurate with a free and open society and they must stop. The UK has clearly and repeatedly made known our views on this.
The noble Lord, Lord Collins, referred in particular to the issue of LGBT rights in Iran, and I am pleased that he did so. We are profoundly concerned by the continued persecution of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in Iran. We repeatedly call on Iran to fulfil its international and domestic obligations to protect the human rights of all Iranians, including members of those communities.
On UK dual nationality consular cases, like many Members of this House, the Government are, of course, deeply concerned for the welfare of several UK-Iranian nationals currently detained in Iran. The Iranian Government do not recognise dual nationality, and on that basis continue to reject our repeated requests for consular access. In answer to my noble friend Lord McInnes, who properly raised this matter, the consequences of that is that it hobbles every opportunity to be able to learn exactly what charges are being faced, what the evidence is and how we can best help people—or even how we can meet them. That does not stop us asking, but it certainly gives the Iranian Government the opportunity to block our efforts.
My right honourable friend the Prime Minister and my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary have both raised our concerns with their Iranian counterparts. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, the Prime Minister has not raised these matters subsequently, other than on one occasion last year, but they were raised by the Foreign Secretary again this morning and on multiple occasions by our ambassador in Iran. When my noble friend Tobias Ellwood met the Deputy Foreign Minister responsible for consular issues in Tehran last week, he reiterated our request for consular access to all detained British Iranian dual nationals. He also requested that detainees receive appropriate medical treatment and access to lawyers.
I recognise that this is such as very difficult time for all the families of detainees, let alone for the detainees themselves. The FCO is in regular contact with the families and we will continue to provide support. Tobias Ellwood has met family members and reassured them that the Government are making every possible effort and that we will continue to raise these cases with the Iranian Government at every possible opportunity.
On the condition of Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe, naturally we were hugely disappointed to hear the outcome of Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe’s appeal. Tobias Ellwood called Iranian Deputy Foreign Minister Ravanchi earlier today to express our concerns at the outcome. FCO officials are in regular contact with Mr Ratcliffe and have met him in person on multiple occasions since Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe’s arrest in April last year. Tobias Ellwood met Mr Ratcliffe on 28 November to discuss her case. He will meet Mr Ratcliffe again shortly to provide an update on his—that is, Tobias Ellwood’s—visit to Tehran on 18 January this year. FCO officials are also in contact with Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe’s family in Tehran and Tobias Ellwood met them during his visit to Tehran. Consular officials stand ready to assist Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe’s family with any support they require. We also stand ready to assist Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe’s family to bring her daughter Gabriella back to the UK should they wish to do so.
I was asked particularly about the matter of calling for release. The noble Lord, Lord Carlile, who is learned in law, will know that, as of yet, the process of appeal is not yet finalised. The family have yet to reflect on whether they wish to take any further legal action—that is, if further legal action is possible. We stand ready to support them in consideration of those matters. As is the case in this country too, one does not call for release until one is aware of the circumstances of evidence and proof and, finally, of the disposal of the case. That is all so obscure because of the judicial system in Iran—perhaps the court system might be a better way of describing it—which provides great uncertainty to those who are within it, both during the process of trials and subsequently.
We are also very concerned for Mr Foroughi’s health and we have raised this with the Iranian authorities. Indeed, my honourable friend Tobias Ellwood raised this case with the Deputy Foreign Minister just last week in Tehran. Throughout all this, it is vital that we continue to uphold the human rights of all the citizens in Iran with our international partners. We must never forget—and this Government do not forget—that the nuclear deal has within it an ability to hold Iran to account that is separate from the matters of the dual nationals. We will not forget them and, I know, neither will this House.
Israel and Palestine: Paris Peace Conference
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Lord Steel of Aikwood
To ask Her Majesty’s Government why no United Kingdom minister attended the Israel–Palestine peace conference in Paris.
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)
My Lords, the UK welcomes France’s efforts to promote peace. However, as the role of the US is so critical, we have repeatedly expressed reservations about holding a conference so close to the change of US Administration and without the attendance of the two main parties. We did not consider this the best way to make real progress. As a consequence, we decided to attend the conference as an observer, at senior official level.
Lord Steel of Aikwood (LD)
Would the Minister agree that it is important to draw a clear distinction between support for the State of Israel and for the policies of the present Israeli Government? Given that the ministerial absence from this conference followed the crass repudiation of a speech by Senator John Kerry, who had done so much to support the peace efforts, will she confirm that it is still the policy of Her Majesty’s Government to recognise that settlements in the West Bank are illegal and, therefore, one of the obstacles to peace?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, this is about more than illegal settlements, although I have made it clear from this Dispatch Box that this Government view illegal settlements as an obstacle to peace. What I affirm, against the background of what the noble Lord has raised, is that the UK’s long-standing position on the Middle East peace process is clear: we continue to support a negotiated settlement leading to a safe and secure Israel living alongside a viable and sovereign Palestinian state, based on 1967 borders, with agreed land swaps, Jerusalem as the shared capital of both states, and a just, fair and agreed settlement for refugees.
Lord Turnberg (Lab)
My Lords, can I ask the Minister to speculate on what the attitude of the British Government would be if the French decided to hold a conference with 70 countries to discuss Northern Ireland but did not invite the British or Irish Governments?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, as I rather waspishly said, I think, in response to the noble Baroness, Lady Tonge, on Tuesday, I try not to speculate; I prefer to deal with what is. Indeed, in those 13 long, long years in opposition, I remember having my leg pulled very gently on the basis that I always wanted to know what works, and what works is having the two main parties involved in negotiations. Without the Israelis and the Palestinians coming to an agreement, there can be no lasting peace.
Lord Robathan (Con)
My Lords, I commend the Government for sticking with their support for the two-state solution, which is generally accepted as the best way forward. But I invite my noble friend to speculate: without the two states of Israel and Palestine at the discussion of the two-state solution, what exactly was the conference designed to achieve?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I do pay tribute to the way in which France has, under various Administrations, genuinely sought to take forward international discussions on a potential peace settlement—this was one more effort by France to do so. But unless the main protagonists are there to come to an agreement, there can be no resolution. That is the nub of the discussion today.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, in the light of the Foreign Secretary’s off-the-cuff remarks, I am not at all surprised that the Government were reluctant to send him to France. However, the Minister has today and yesterday reiterated the Government’s support for the two-state solution. Will she reassure the House that, when the Prime Minister visits President-elect Trump—very soon, as we hear—the issue of support for the two-state solution will be high on the agenda?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
Indeed, as I have set out today, our position on the two-state solution has not changed. I have again listed the component parts of a lasting settlement, which I know all Members of this House want to achieve—that is, a lasting solution to a very difficult position across the Middle East and one that could be respected by all. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has a wonderfully dramatic way of making a point. It certainly gets attention.
Baroness Northover (LD)
My Lords, the noble Baroness rightly often emphasises the importance of international law. UNOCHA states that there have been record numbers of demolitions of Palestinian properties in 2016. Will the noble Baroness comment on that?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, we continuously bring to the attention of the Government of Israel the fact that we believe that moves to extend illegal settlements, but also moves to carry out demolitions, can undermine the future of peace, even if those demolitions may be in green-line Israel. It is a very sensitive matter because green-line Israel is not the same as the Occupied Palestinian Territories, but, for me, it is a matter of respecting human rights.
Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)
Does my noble friend agree that any moves by Governments to move their embassies to Jerusalem would make the two-state solution even more difficult?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, we have no plans to move our embassy to Jerusalem. I hope that is in accord with my noble friend’s wishes.
Lord Dykes (CB)
My Lords, while respecting the Minister’s earnest endeavours and being grateful to her for those, does she agree that if the Government legitimately are more critical of the Netanyahu illegal settlement policies, that encourages, and gives support to, the millions of Israeli citizens who disapprove of those settlement policies?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, in continuing to voice our opposition to the building of illegal settlements, we also point to other aspects of the disputes that need to be resolved. However, this is set against a wider issue because this country firmly upholds international law. My right honourable friends the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister have made it clear that, as global Britain going forward as we leave the European Union, we intend to maintain our position as a firm upholder of international law.
Populism and Nationalism
Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts(7 years, 8 months ago)
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The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)
My Lords, I join in the congratulations offered to the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, on giving the House this opportunity to discuss and reflect on these extremely important issues. It is also a special day simply because it is the last Thursday of Liberal Democrat debates this Session. A fitting way to conclude is to reflect on these issues. I shall seek to echo that mood of reflection and rhetorical questioning that we have heard from around the House today.
The liberal international order, also called the rules-based international order, describes the system brought into being by the United States, the UK and other allies and partners in response to the horrors of the Second World War. I was born after the Second World War, but my father fought in it. I grew up in that atmosphere of recognising how we had to work together to avoid such a horror ever occurring again.
At its core, it is a system defined by economic openness; democracy and the rule of law; respect for human rights; and rules-based relations between states. It has become formalised over time through multilateral organisations such as the UN, the World Trade Organization, the World Bank and the web of international conventions, laws, agreements and norms which shape and regulate relations between nation states. This multilateral architecture has been underpinned by the economic and military power of the United States and its security alliances, including NATO, which together cover some 50 countries around our world. The democratic, rules-based international model was further strengthened by the collapse of the Soviet Union, its ideology and its client states.
Not all countries are democracies, but all countries which have signed up to the UN charter have committed to a set of binding principles on human rights, rule of law, peaceful resolution of disputes and collective action to solve problems. Multilateral institutions and democratic values are now central to discussions of good governance.
Since the Second World War, this system of laws, institutions, norms and values has helped us all to promote an exceptional period of economic growth and democratic transition across the world. It has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty and spread political and economic freedoms.
The increasingly deep integration of trade, investment, people and information— otherwise described as globalisation—has been a particular feature of global growth during the past 25 years. The global economy has more than doubled in size since 1989. In 1981, almost half the world’s population lived in extreme poverty—I reflected on this as the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, was speaking. Today, that figure is less than one in 10. She was right to draw attention to the improvements that have been made and must continue to be made.
This economic transformation has been accompanied by extraordinary political change. In the past 30 years, the number of democracies has doubled. Working together, countries have improved the lives of many people around the world—from tackling human rights abuses, most recently on issues such as sexual violence and modern slavery, to prosecuting war crimes and genocide and finding solutions to global threats such as climate change.
The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, reminded us that, not long ago, some were suggesting that we had reached “the end of history”. As she made clear, that was a somewhat dramatic way of saying that the liberal international order looked set to remain unchallenged. It is now clear that this was complacent; the noble Baroness was right. Today, as many noble Lords have indicated, there are more challenges to the rules-based order and more concerns about the merits of this model than for many years.
The rise of China has led some to argue that economic development does not need, or automatically lead to, democracy. The gradual historic shift of economic power from developed to emerging economies has led others to question whether the current institutional architecture is still fit for purpose, and whether the new, emerging economies that have reaped the benefits of openness are now committed to shouldering some of the responsibilities of leadership. All this comes at a time when the continuing impact of the 2008 financial crisis has undermined the faith of electorates, not just in the competence of Governments but in the benefits of open economies. Free trade is stagnating. Protectionism is on the increase.
Alongside these economic changes, the world today feels more dangerous and more volatile. Political freedoms are under threat in some of our newer democracies and independent nation states. A nationalist rhetoric which seeks to blame others has resurfaced. The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, reminded us very clearly of some of the threats we face. For the first time since the Second World War, one European country—Russia—has forcibly annexed the territory of another. Russia continues to undermine the sovereignty of Ukraine, in contravention of its obligations. Russia is also supporting, in President Assad of Syria, a leader who has waged a brutal war against his people.
In the wider Middle East and across parts of Africa and south Asia, the nation state itself is under threat from violent, ruthless, non-state actors such as Daesh and al-Qaeda. These groups have an entirely different vision of a future world order, coupled with a determination to use terror globally to achieve their aims. Global conflict, most notably in the Middle East and Africa, has led to more than 60 million people being displaced from their homes—the highest number since 1945. These humanitarian catastrophes have put pressure on generous neighbours, aid agencies and the international system committed to giving a safe haven to refugees.
All these challenges are increasing the pressure on political systems, and raising fears for many that their children’s lives will be worse than their own. As parents, we know that parents strive to make improvements—that the future should be better for their family. While recognising these political challenges, we must be careful in our use of the terms populism and nationalism. As noble Lords have said, they are broad terms, interpreted in different ways. Popular discontent takes different forms from country to country. So-called populist or nationalist parties or movements can indeed appear, as we have been reminded today, on the left as well as the right, and may be responding to particular domestic circumstances and issues. Some are focused primarily on economic inequality. Some use xenophobic language, attempting to blame complex problems on others. Others are led by charismatic leaders with a personal political vision and agenda.
As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has set out in her recent speeches, including today in Davos—I am grateful to my noble friends Lord Tugendhat, Lady Stroud and Lady Finn for referring to that speech in more detail—she has identified that the underlying problem is that many people in the developed world feel that the gains from global, open economies have not been shared equitably in recent years. People fear that globalisation has enriched corporations and elites and that it has opened the door to unfettered competition which has driven the decline of traditional industries and regions and destroyed jobs.
This Government argue that inequality and regional decline are not, and must not become, inevitable consequences of globalisation. We believe that competition can drive the efficiency, innovation and growth we need to build our prosperity. I was very interested in the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Stone of Blackheath, who talked about big data. That was a refreshingly different speech this afternoon—it just shows what the House of Lords can do. Furthermore, we must remember that more jobs are now lost to technological advancement and automation than to off-shoring, for example.
However, we all, in Parliament and in government, have a responsibility to assist those who have lost out. In my right honourable friend the Prime Minister’s words, we will be:
“A confident global Britain that doesn’t turn its back on globalisation but ensures the benefits are shared by all”.
In a changing world, we can shape both domestic and foreign policy to help people be better prepared to deal with the challenges of rapid economic change.
This also means that we must be robust in countering the xenophobia that is a feature of some populist and nationalist rhetoric, while also recognising the balance that must be struck on immigration, to which so many noble Lords have rightly referred. Immigration is important in developed countries: it brings us economic benefits, innovation and a diversity of skills and experience. However, we must ensure that the rate of immigration is at a pace which means that those arriving can be appropriately integrated into our communities.
Strengthening the rules-based international order and the institutions and values that underpin it remains the best way to ensure our collective security and prosperity, and to advance the UK interest. However, we also recognise that systems and institutions cannot remain unchanged. In a changing political and economic landscape, we need to look carefully at how institutions and rules can adapt to maintain legitimacy. That is why, for example, we joined the Chinese-led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. It is also why the UK supports enlarging the permanent membership of the Security Council of the United Nations to include important, rising global powers, such as India. We believe that emerging powers have benefited from the openness, transparency and rules of the existing order. The last 70 years have shown that this international order can be flexible and effective in adapting to profound political change and finding a way to reconcile political and cultural diversity. I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Sheikh for reminding us that it is essential that we respect that cultural diversity.
In this context, I come to the subject of the UK’s decision to leave the European Union. Some have ventured to suggest that the decision by UK voters last year may be part of the challenge to the current order but that interpretation would be fundamentally incorrect. As we have said many times and as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister made clear again in her speech at Lancaster House on Tuesday this week, the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union should on no account be interpreted as a rejection of the UK’s historic global role, of the institutions of the rules-based international order or of the universal values which we and our European partners champion. As is often said, we may be leaving the European Union as an institution but we are not leaving our European partners. We remain fundamentally committed to them all. We are not and never will be an inward-looking country; we have been and will remain a global Britain.
We recognise the extraordinary achievements of the European project in bringing peace and prosperity to a devastated and divided continent. We have Members in this House who have played a key role in that achievement. We will be embarking on a new kind of relationship with Europe but we will remain,
“reliable partners, willing allies and close friends”,
of our European colleagues. We will continue to work together to support an open, rules-based order that serves our shared values. We will retain the joint goal of shared prosperity, security and stability in our European neighbourhood and beyond. As has been reflected upon so often today, on many issues—such as the promotion and protection of human rights globally—it is vital that the UK remains the closest of partners in promoting human rights around the world, in our own country and within the European context.
I turn briefly to the incoming Administration of President-elect Trump. Much mention has been made of him, some of it not entirely flattering. Some outside this House have been tempted to draw early and potentially incorrect conclusions about the future direction of US foreign policy. A change in the US Administration invariably impacts on foreign policy, but the complex system of alliances and multilateral commitments which the US has supported since 1945, through different Administrations, is strong and enduring. Throughout our history, the UK has worked successfully with Republican and Democratic presidents to advance our mutual interests and tackle shared challenges. We have not always agreed, regardless of the party in power in Washington. However, we have always understood that nothing would fundamentally shake our strong bond based on history, mutual interests and shared values. That remains, so we expect that this will be the case with President-elect Trump. The US was instrumental in creating the rules-based order, including NATO, the cornerstone of European security, so we look forward to continuing our close co-operation with the US both to champion that order and to demonstrate active leadership in the UN and other institutions.
What can the UK do? The rules-based international order is clearly fundamental to our security and prosperity. We will face challenges. Noble Lords have reflected carefully on them. However, I am confident that, working with our key friends and allies and with the support of British parliamentarians in both Houses, we can navigate the development of a more resilient, inclusive international order over the coming years in line with our values and interests. The UK will continue to champion this system by promoting, with renewed vigour, the United Nations as the primary pillar of the rules-based system. We must remain passionate in our defence of its crucial role and mission, while continuing to seek reform through working closely with the new and most welcome Secretary-General, António Guterres. We will continue to work collaboratively with all partners to defeat global challenges, including terrorism, climate change and cybercrime, to which reference has been made. We will be robust in our defence against attacks on the rules-based order by those states and non-state actors who think that somehow the rules do not apply to them. They should, and they will. We will continue to work closely with our European allies in foreign and security policy, and following our departure from the European Union we will champion open economies and free trade. We will maintain our commitment to spend 0.7% GNI on development aid and 2% GDP on defence. We will continue to take a compassionate and pragmatic approach to global problems such as the migrant crisis, including supporting refugees in their region and seeking peaceful settlements in conflict-affected countries such as Syria, Libya and Yemen.
I am being reminded of the time. The UK remains an open, progressive, democratic country whose objectives are best served by a rules-based international order. That world order has delivered huge benefits. It remains robust, but it faces many threats. We all have a duty to continue to defend it and to ensure that it is in good shape for many years to come. This has been an important debate. I am finishing slightly early because otherwise I appreciate that the mover of the debate would have no opportunity to respond. I am glad that he raised this issue today.
Israel: Ambassador
Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts(7 years, 8 months ago)
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Baroness Tonge
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the apology by the Israeli Ambassador for remarks made by an embassy official concerning a Foreign Office Minister, whether they intend to conduct an inquiry.
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns)
My Lords, the Israeli ambassador has apologised and it is clear that these comments do not reflect the views of the embassy or of the Government of Israel. The UK has a strong relationship with Israel and we consider the matter closed.
Baroness Tonge (Non-Afl)
I thank the Minister for that response, but will she please tell us what action would be taken if, for example, Chinese embassy staff were discovered to be interfering in our political process in this way? Will she agree that the very serious charge of anti-Semitism is devalued if it is used against anyone who criticises the actions of the Government of Israel?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I shall not speculate on what might happen; I deal with what does happen. It is clear that in this case unacceptable activity was undertaken by one person who is no longer in this country, and appropriate action was taken by the Israeli embassy.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, a junior embassy official made a stupid remark at a gossipy lunch and was sacked, and our Government say that that is the end of the matter. Does the Minister share my puzzlement at any possible benefit that would result from raising the matter now? Is it seriously suggested, for example, that the Israeli embassy wants to bump off Sir Alan Duncan?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I am delighted to say that my right honourable friend is alive and well and an excellent Minister at the Foreign Office.
Baroness Northover
The Government accepted the Israeli ambassador’s explanation but, on Sunday, the UK failed to send a Minister to the Paris meeting on the peace process and yesterday the UK vetoed the EU’s support for the conclusions of that meeting. Can the Minister assure us that on Israel/Palestine the Government are not distancing themselves from our European neighbours and seeking favour with a very unpredictable new US President?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, the UK position on the Middle East peace process has not changed. I appreciate that there has been some speculation over the recess—that happens during a recess period. But the noble Baroness rightly raises specific points, and I would like to address the two main points of those specific issues.
First, with regard to the Paris conference, we made it clear to the French, whom we congratulate on trying to take the process of peace forward, that decisions made at this stage without the presence of the only ones who can come to a settlement—the Palestinians and the Israelis—were not going anywhere and could simply harden opinions. It was nothing to do with the incoming President of the United States. However, we have to recognise that the US plays a crucial role in these negotiations, and has done so. With regard to Paris, while welcoming the French efforts, we made it clear that we would not attend the meeting at ministerial level, although we had a senior representative there—the head of our Near East department—and as such it was not appropriate for us to sign up to that communique.
I would like to put on record a clarification about the misunderstanding in the press to which the noble Baroness referred. We did not veto anything yesterday in Brussels. Federica Mogherini, the High Representative of the European Union for foreign affairs, confirmed yesterday that the UK,
“did not stop or prevent any decision of the European Union”.
From her mouth, I hope that the House will accept that we did not veto anything.
Lord Wright of Richmond (CB)
Can the Minister confirm nevertheless that the Government are still firmly in favour of a two-state solution to the Arab-Israel question? Can she add to her explanation why the British delegate to the meeting in Paris—and, indeed, the Foreign Secretary himself, at a meeting of his European Union colleagues—both failed to go along with a statement in support of the two-state process?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
First, it was not an occasion for making a statement. Yesterday was a discussion over lunch—it was not a position from which one makes a statement. What we have made clear, and the Prime Minister has made it clear, is that we continue to be in favour of a two-state solution. The importance is to concentrate on the range of issues which both of those who will come to the settlement table need to sign up to. My grammar is getting a little awry there but, clearly, our policy has not changed. We want to see a safe and secure Israel living alongside a viable and sovereign Palestinian state based on 1967 borders, with agreed land swaps, Jerusalem as the shared capital of those states and a fair, just, agreed settlement for refugees. We are constant in our policy.
Cyprus
Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts(7 years, 9 months ago)
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Lord Balfe
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the progress of the reunification negotiations between the leaders of the two communities in Cyprus.
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)
My Lords, we welcome progress in the Cyprus settlement talks and commend the courageous leadership of President Anastasiades and Mr Akinci. We encourage the leaders to take this opportunity to secure a just and lasting settlement. As the Prime Minister said when she spoke with President Anastasiades, the UK will continue its steadfast support for the settlement process and stand ready to help to bring it to a successful conclusion.
Lord Balfe (Con)
I thank the Minister for her reply. I look forward to the UK Government joining the five-party talks in Geneva on 12 January. Will the Government bear firmly in mind the concerns about territory and security expressed in particular by the Turkish population, and the fact that any settlement will need to be passed in a referendum by both communities? Both communities need to feel confidence that any settlement reached is fair to their community.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My noble friend raises an important point, naturally. The UK is willing to consider whatever arrangements the sides can agree upon to meet the security needs of a reunited Cyprus. Indeed, both sides recognise that future security arrangements will need to enable both communities to feel safe.
Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)
My Lords, does the Minister recognise that in the run-up to what could be a very important meeting it is necessary that countries such as Britain, which is a permanent member of the Security Council, pursue an active diplomacy in support of the United Nations, which needs support at moments like this? Further to what she said in reply to the noble Lord, will she confirm that, were issues relating to the guarantee treaty—to which we are a party—to arise, we would be prepared to show flexibility towards any solution that had the agreement of Turkey, Greece and the two parties in Cyprus?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, this is, of course, a Cypriot-led process. I assure the noble Lord, as he wished me to, that we are willing to consider whatever arrangements the two sides leading this process can agree on to meet the security needs of a reunited Cyprus. We do not take a particular role for ourselves, except the one the noble Lord rightly stresses, which is our relationship with the United Nations and others involved in this process to bring it to a successful conclusion.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, key to these talks is the success of the two leaders in Cyprus. We have to give our full support to them, but as the noble Lord who asked the Question said it is ultimately for the people to decide. I hope that in the forthcoming period we put all our effort in supporting the two Cypriot leaders—the leaders of the two communities—and the last word must be with the people.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
I entirely agree with the noble Lord. We not only stand ready to assist, but actively support any moves to achieve a settlement.
Lord Craig of Radley (CB)
My Lords, will any agreement that may be reached have any effect on the sovereign base arrangements that the United Kingdom currently enjoys on the island of Cyprus?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I assure the noble and gallant Lord that if we were to make the offer that we can cede up to half of the sovereign base area in terms of its space, it would not in any way undermine our security position in the sovereign base itself.
Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)
My Lords, the Minister quite rightly points out that this is a Cypriot-led peace initiative, backed by the United Nations, but the United Kingdom as a guarantor power plays a very important role. As she will know, the people of Cyprus look to us as a power of influence. We can do far more to lend our support to any peace process. Will she say that, when—I hope if—we get to a referendum, something we know a little about, we can lend a bit more support in ensuring the outcome will be a positive one?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, the noble Baroness tempts me to forecast the future. What I will forecast is that the United Kingdom’s support for this process will continue unabated. As the noble Lord speaking for the Opposition said a moment ago, it is important to recognise the bravery of the two leaders taking part in the process. They deserve our support.
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, would it not be sensible for us not to attempt to tell them how to run a referendum?
Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)
My Lords, it is clear that the process going on is extremely important, and we all wish it success. Can the Minister comment on the extent to which the consent of the people, to which my noble friend referred, relates to the people of Cyprus or to the wider diaspora of the various communities and, if so, how that is to be managed?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, it will be for the parties leading this process when they meet again in the new year to discuss and determine such matters. I appreciate that when they meet they will come forward with proposals from the point of view of the two leaders before it goes to the more open or wider process, if I may call it that, from about 12 January, when the guarantor powers and perhaps one or two other representatives will be present.
Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)
My Lords, Turkey is rather in our minds with the horrific assassination there the day before yesterday, but have Her Majesty’s Government talked to the Turkish Government in recent weeks—indeed, since the attempted coup in the summer—about their attitude to the reunification? Their support in the background is vital if any progress is to be made.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, my right honourable friend Sir Alan Duncan has visited Turkey. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has also done so and spoken to all those involved. My noble friend is right to stress that it is important for Ministers from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to be in regular engagement with those in authority in both Turkey and Greece.