Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)
15. What assessment he has made of the likely defence budget post-2015.
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)
The defence budget for the financial year 2015-16 will be set in the current spending round, which is expected to conclude in the summer. The budget for subsequent years will be set in the next spending review. The Ministry of Defence has an agreement with Her Majesty’s Treasury that we may plan on the assumption of a 1% real-terms annual increase in the equipment budget—about 40% of the current defence budget, rising to 45%—from 2015-16 to 2020-21. Our equipment plan, which we recently published, is based on that assumption.
Rosie Cooper
On 14 May last year the Secretary of State boasted that he had balanced the budget over 10 years. To prove his claims, he said:
“I have agreed with the National Audit Office that it will review the equipment plan and confirm that it is affordable.”—[Official Report, 14 May 2012; Vol. 545, c. 264.]
However, in January the NAO’s report damningly said that it could not
“offer a definitive view on the affordability of the Equipment Plan.”
Will the Secretary of State tell us how we can believe a word that this Government say on defence when their central claim to competence cannot be confirmed by the independent auditor?
Mr Hammond
I think the hon. Lady needs to go away and read the National Audit Office report carefully. To put it into context, she probably needs to read some previous NAO reports on equipment plans. For example, in its 2010 report the NAO discovered that in a single year under Labour just two programmes—Typhoon and the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier—rose by £3.3 billion in cost. In 2009, it said that
“the budget remains consistently unaffordable over the next ten years”
and that attempts to rebalance the defence budget had represented poor value for money. We are very happy with the NAO’s review of the equipment plan, which recognised the huge steps of progress that we have made and set out an affordability assessment model for the Department’s assumptions.
Mr Speaker
Order. Both the question and the answer are hopelessly long-winded; we need to get better.
Derek Twigg
The Prime Minister promised real-terms growth in the post-2015 budget. Can the Secretary of State confirm that that will still be the case for the equipment budget and the non-equipment budget?
Mr Hammond
The Prime Minister has made it clear that he stands by his view that the equipment plan budget needs to increase in real terms, and we have a pledge from Her Majesty’s Treasury that we may plan on the assumption of a 1% real-terms increase. Our planning assumption is flat real-terms growth for the remainder of the budget.
Mr James Arbuthnot (North East Hampshire) (Con)
I do not think that that was precisely what the Prime Minister said. Nevertheless, does my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State agree that if we possibly can we should continue to meet the NATO objective of spending at least 2% of our gross domestic product on defence?
Mr Hammond
I agree with my right hon. Friend. The plans that we have set out do indeed show that we will continue to comply with that 2% threshold.
Sir Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con)
Will the Secretary of State enlighten the House on what discussions he has had with the Treasury in the light of the Prime Minister’s most welcome announcement last week that some of the aid budget might very usefully be diverted to peacekeeping operations? The Department for International Development is to have another £2.65 billion extra this year, but how on earth is it going to spend it when the Ministry of Defence is so short of cash?
Mr Hammond
I shall leave it to my right hon. Friend the International Development Secretary to explain how DFID proposes to spend its budget. There is already a high level of co-operation between the Ministry of Defence, the Foreign Office and DFID. It makes absolute sense to look at how we spend the budgets available across those three Departments in order to achieve their objectives and secure the UK’s vital national interests.
Mr Jim Murphy (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)
Last May the Secretary of State announced to an outburst of self-congratulation that he had balanced the MOD’s books and, as we have heard, he even called on the National Audit Office to validate his assertion. Instead, however, the auditors have declared that his costings are “over-optimistic” and his approach “not statistically valid”. Put simply, the NAO said:
“The costings are not sufficiently robust to support the affordability assertion.”
Is it not now time for the Defence Secretary, just like the Prime Minister, finally to admit that he has failed to deliver on his boasts on the MOD budget?
Mr Hammond
No, and I am sorry that the hon. Member for West Lancashire (Rosie Cooper) has stolen the right hon. Gentleman’s thunder. We now have an equipment plan that includes £4.8 billion of centrally held contingency, £8.4 billion of contingency in the individual projects, and £8 billion of unallocated headroom. The right hon. Gentleman might have noted that the right hon. Member for Barking (Margaret Hodge) recently said that, since the election, the MOD has made
“welcome progress…particularly on the purchasing of equipment”
and “great strides forward”. That is in marked contrast to the National Audit Office and Public Accounts Committee’s assessment of what happened under the previous Government.
Mr Murphy
The Secretary of State should spare us the lecture. This is the party that sold off the Harriers, that could not decide which aeroplanes to put on the carriers, that sends our one carrier to sea without any aeroplanes and that cost the country tens of millions of pounds.
To return to the budget, we now know that when the Defence Secretary told this House that the defence budget was balanced, he meant that only 40% of it was costed. The National Audit Office looked at just £1 in every £5 of the MOD’s budget, and even then it discovered a £12.5 billion black hole in the plans. The NAO said:
“Achieving affordability is…contingent on savings being achieved elsewhere in the budget.”
Will the Defence Secretary confirm the NAO’s figure for the new black hole and that his plans to boost the equipment budget will fall on the back of further cuts to our armed forces and their welfare?
Mr Hammond
No. The right hon. Gentleman is simply wrong. The figure of £12.5 billion is from CAAS—the internal cost assessment and assurance service. It was quoted by the National Audit Office and has subsequently been reassessed at £4.4 billion. [Interruption.] No, it was by CAAS and has been reassessed at £4.4 billion. The right hon. Gentleman is simply wrong.
Labour has to decide whether it is going to engage seriously in this debate or not. At last year’s Labour conference, the right hon. Gentleman told his party that it
“must deal with the issues we would if we were in power…No smoke and mirrors, no delay in tough decisions”.
Just two weeks ago, however, he told The Daily Telegraph:
“I’m not going to say we will guarantee to overturn this cut or the other.”
Which is it to be: tough decisions or more ducking and weaving?
Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
The 2011 independent commission acknowledged the increased cost of collectively training Territorial Army units over their regular brethren when force generation factors were taken into account. Given that the Green Paper makes clear that TA units will be more frequently used, will the Government justify their claim that replacing regular troops with reservists is cost-effective?
Mr Hammond
As my hon. Friend knows, we have allocated £1.8 billion over 10 years for additional training, infrastructure and equipment for the reserves to try to rebuild the broken trust that resulted from the previous Government’s slashing of funding for reserve training and equipment. On the economics of using reserves instead of regular forces, it is true that, when deployed on operations, reserves are more expensive than regulars, but, held as a contingency, reserves are significantly lower cost than regular forces. We are simply trying, within the budget envelope available, to create the greatest amount of military capacity it is possible to generate.
Mr Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)
Is the Secretary of State able to give any detail as to the exact consequences of the Prime Minister’s welcome statement on the use of the DFID budget alongside the budgets of the Foreign Office and the Ministry of Defence for the future of defence diplomacy?
Mr Hammond
As I have said, we already co-operate significantly. The conflict pool is a tri-departmental pool of funding that is used for upstream stabilisation and capacity-building operations. The Prime Minister was alluding to a commitment by all three Departments to look again at how we can do more of that to support the UK’s national interests, while at the same time support the development agenda. It is a simple fact that unless there is security it is not possible to have economic development or effective poverty eradication.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)
2. What his most recent estimate is of costs up to 2016 of the replacement of the Trident nuclear missile system.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Dunne)
As the hon. Gentleman is aware, the Trident D5 missile is expected to remain in service until the 2040s. No decision on a replacement system is expected to be made during this Parliament. The estimated cost remains at £2 billion to £3 billion at 2006 prices for the missile itself, as was set out in the White Paper published by the previous Government, whom he occasionally supported.
Jeremy Corbyn
Will the Minister undertake to report to Parliament regularly on expenditure on the missile replacement ahead of the 2016 main gate decision? Does the estimate that he has given today include the upgrading of AWE Aldermaston? Does he think that in a time of austerity it is really such a good idea to prepare to spend £100 billion on a nuclear missile system that will be our very own weapon of mass destruction, which will not help to bring about world peace?
Mr Dunne
As the hon. Gentleman knows and as I have just said, we published an update to Parliament at the end of last year and we intend to publish such updates periodically. The upgrade at Aldermaston is part of the regular routine maintenance of that site which is needed for the existing programme, irrespective of the successor programme.
Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con)
17. Notwithstanding my hon. Friend’s answer, will he join me in paying tribute to the brave submariners who have ensured that the UK has had a continuous at-sea deterrent and who have been the guarantor of our country’s security for 50 years?
Mr Dunne
I am very pleased to pay tribute to the bravery of the men and women who support our submarine fleets, both the conventional fleet and the deterrent fleet. As my hon. Friend rightly says, they have done so for many decades. The deterrent is an important component of the defence of the realm and long may it stay so under this Government.
Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)
I have tabled parliamentary questions on the Trident alternatives review. The Government are refusing to tell me how much it is costing and what it is looking at. The review is blatantly the Liberal Democrats researching their manifesto at taxpayers’ expense and in secret. Will the Government release the details of the Trident alternatives review?
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Talking of alternatives, does my hon. Friend agree that the few percentage points of the defence budget that will be spent on replacing Trident give far better value for money than the alternative of putting nuclear cruise missiles on Astute class submarines, as has been recommended by the Liberal Democrats, almost all of whom are unaccountably absent from the Chamber today?
Mr Dunne
My hon. Friend is a stalwart defender of this country’s nuclear deterrent. I applaud him for that and for the debate that he called on this subject at the end of last year. It remains to be seen what costings are attached to the alternative plans that our coalition partners may or may not publish in due course.
Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP)
The majority of Scottish MPs at Westminster have voted against Trident renewal, just as the majority of Members of the Scottish Parliament have voted against Trident renewal, and just as the Scottish trade unions, the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations, every single faith group and the majority of public opinion are against Trident renewal. Why are the Government ignoring the democratic majority in Scotland and wasting billions of pounds on something that could never be used, rather than investing in conventional defence?
Mr Dunne
The hon. Gentleman should address his remarks to the workers of the Rosyth area and see how they feel about whether we should retain a nuclear deterrent in this country. Decisions about this country’s nuclear deterrent are made in this Parliament, as they were in 2007, and they will continue to be made here.
David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)
3. What consideration he has given to routinely storing DNA samples for all members of the armed forces.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Andrew Murrison)
I congratulate my hon. Friend on taking a close interest in this matter. As the Minister responsible for defence personnel, veterans and welfare, my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois), told him in November, it is MOD policy
“to offer all military, deployable MOD civilians and other entitled personnel the opportunity to provide reference samples suitable for DNA analysis.”—[Official Report, 26 November 2012; Vol. 554, c. 18.]
That is on entirely a voluntary basis, complies with the Human Tissue Act 2004, and is to enable identification post mortem if required.
David Mowat
The Minister may recall the case of my constituent Emma Hickman, who had difficulty in demonstrating paternity because of a dispute over the ownership of DNA. That case was resolved, and I thank him for his help in that, but we need routinely to require all active soldiers to have DNA taken so that, as in the case of armies such as that of the United States, samples can easily be made available. By what time scale might we do that?
Dr Murrison
The policy is under review, and it will certainly include reviewing practice in other countries, notably the US, where, as my hon. Friend says, there is mandatory testing on enlistment. That clearly needs to be within UK legislation, particularly the 2004 Act, and I anticipate the result of the current review being available in late spring.
Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)
4. What steps he is taking to encourage other Government Departments to support the armed forces covenant.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)
As stated in December in the first formal annual report on the armed forces covenant, by enshrining the principles of the covenant in law and establishing a Cabinet-level Committee to oversee progress, we are embedding the covenant across Whitehall. The Cabinet Sub-Committee on the Armed Forces Covenant, led by my right hon. Friend the Minister for Government Policy, was formed in February 2012 to oversee the covenant programme of work and ensure that momentum is maintained. It provides a forum where Ministers can discuss the commitments owned by their Departments. It met four times in 2012 and has already met this year, a meeting that I attended.
Mr Buckland
I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer. What further work is being done to reinforce at local level the need to address veterans’ issues, for example through work with housing associations, many of which have tenants who are veterans, some of whom are in a vulnerable position?
Mr Francois
More than 250 local authorities have now signed community covenants, and housing is one issue that is often covered in them; it is covered, I believe, under section 4 of the Swindon community covenant. If veterans have particular problems with housing, as well as contacting their local council and housing associations they can contact the Ministry of Defence’s veterans welfare service, which is part of the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency and can assist them with their inquiries.
Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op)
The Government have been tested on how seriously they take the armed forces covenant by the issue of the bedroom tax, and they have failed that test. The right hon. Gentleman has finally admitted, in a letter to my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin), that some armed forces families, including those of reservists, could be affected by the bedroom tax, but he does not know how many. Now that we know that some armed forces families will be punished by the bedroom tax, why does he think the families of prisoners and of students should have a year’s exemption, but not armed forces families?
Mr Francois
It is believed that very few, if any, full-time service personnel will be affected by the new policy of the Department for Work and Pensions as the overwhelming majority will be living in service accommodation provided by the Ministry of Defence. I have met Lord Freud at the DWP to discuss the issue in detail, and we believe that the number of service personnel who will be affected, either regular or reserve, will be really quite small.
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)
5. What steps he is taking to help families of service personnel find work.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)
We recognise that the mobile lifestyles of service personnel can create a particular difficulty for working partners who may have to give up their own jobs. The Government are committed to addressing such disadvantages, including through Jobcentre Plus armed forces champions to assist service families in finding employment, and through easier access to several Jobcentre Plus benefits and services, such as early access to the Work programme of the Department for Work and Pensions. However, we would like to do more. The new employment model that we are currently developing is intended to create a more stable family life, which in turn should help family members find work.
Andrew Selous
I spoke to a service wife this morning who told me that she and other wives at their base believe that they are at a real disadvantage when looking for work. They worry about saying what their husbands do, and even about giving their address. These are special people to whom we owe a debt of care. What more can we do to help them?
Mr Francois
My hon. Friend raises an important issue, and the armed forces covenant report 2012 points out that for spouses and partners
“despite the generally difficult economic situation, we have seen increased levels of full time employment—from 34% in 2011 to 38% in 2012—and the number of partners reporting difficulty finding a job because of employment history has decreased from 25% in 2010 to 16% in 2012.”
In addition, the Government plan to make an announcement shortly on regular Army basing, which should help to provide greater stability in future for service families.
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)
Has the Minister considered having a Jobcentre Plus at each service accommodation site to ensure that service families are not disconnected from the services they require to help them get back into work?
Mr Francois
I understand the hon. Gentleman’s question, but we already have a network of armed forces champions in DWP districts and a number of jobcentres. We attempt to meet the requirement by doing things that way round, and we believe that it works.
Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab)
6. What plans he has for the non-equipment defence budget.
Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)
11. What plans he has for the non-equipment defence budget.
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)
The defence budget was set for this Parliament in the spending review conducted in 2010. As I have set out, the budget for financial year 2015-16 will be set in the current spending round, which is expected to conclude in the summer. The MOD’s planning assumption is that the non-equipment element of the budget, about 55% to 60% of the total, will grow in line with inflation—that is, will remain flat in real terms—over the 10-year planning horizon that the Department uses for budgeting purposes.
Ian Mearns
The National Audit Office has called into question the Secretary of State’s projections, and MOD analysis shows that capability gaps could arise in some areas, particularly the Army. Will the Secretary of State publish the analysis to which the NAO referred, and will he guarantee to all future, current and past members of the Army that their livelihoods will not be cut to pay for miscalculations within the Department?
Mr Hammond
I can tell the hon. Gentleman that we have right-sized the Army to the budgets we have available, and having taken tough decisions we are in the process of drawing the Army down to its future size of 82,000. That size will allow us to equip and protect properly our service men and women when we ask them to go out and do a very dangerous job on our behalf, and we believe that is the right approach.
Mrs Glindon
Given that the National Audit Office did not confirm the affordability of the equipment plan, will the Secretary of State commit to publishing a more detailed summary of the plan with individual funding lines for individual programmes?
Mr Hammond
I remind the hon. Lady that the question is about the non-equipment defence budget. For the equipment budget we have published a plan that is more detailed than anything published previously, and certainly more detailed than any equipment plan published during the 13 years of the Labour Government. We have gone as far as we believe we can without compromising either national security or taxpayers’ commercial interests in negotiating with defence contractors, and I am afraid I cannot offer her any more detail than that already published without compromising those things.
Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con)
Although Ministers rightly never comment on funding for our special forces, does my right hon. Friend agree that the current operational capability of our special forces, in terms of both equipment and manpower, is a huge national asset?
Mr Hammond
Our special forces are a huge national asset, and their capability has been expanded very substantially in response to the needs of Operation Herrick in Afghanistan. It follows that as we draw down from our operations in Afghanistan we will want to review some of the supporting infrastructure put in place for that specific operation. As my hon. Friend will know, however, the MOD never comments publicly on the details of special forces numbers, funding or disposition.
Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)
Last week I met trade union representatives from Defence Support Group Sealand who are obviously concerned about the future of the maintenance budget. What future plans does the Secretary of State have for the maintenance budget, and in particular on whether DSG might be privatised?
Mr Hammond
The current intention is that DSG will be privatised, and we are in the process of achieving that objective. On the equipment support budget, one important innovation—hon. Members might have thought that this was standard practice, but it has not been until now—is to ensure that no equipment is allowed into the programme for procurement unless we also clearly have a budget to support that equipment over the 10-year horizon to which we budget. Achieving that will ensure not only that our equipment will be first class, but that we can maintain it in first-class condition.
Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)
On an all-too-frequent basis, we hear of cyber-attacks on global businesses and Government Departments globally. Last month, the Select Committee on Defence published its report on defence and cyber-security, which appears to highlight a number of failings. Bearing in mind that cyber-security cuts right across the Government, does the Secretary of State recognise the need for even more investment in it? What percentage of any additional governmental spend will go to his budget?
Mr Hammond
Cyber-security is a cross-Government agenda led by the Cabinet Office, but the Ministry of Defence is heavily involved in the programme. The hon. Gentleman is right to draw attention to the increasing frequency and severity of attacks on industrial and civilian infrastructure targets not just in the UK but throughout the western world. The arrangements the Government have put in place for a quinquennial strategic defence and security review give us a framework within which to review our responses to cyber-threats and to make any adjustments in priority that we need to make for the next five-year period. The allocation of costs across Departments would be a matter for the next spending review.
Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)
7. What plans he has for the future of the core equipment programme.
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)
Having established the core equipment programme in planning round 12, as I announced on 14 May 2012, we are now concentrating on delivering that core programme. We will, however, continue to keep under review candidate projects for inclusion in the core programme in the future, bearing in mind that we have £8 billion of uncommitted headroom in the programme. However, before we include any further projects, we will need to be satisfied, first, of the capability need and, secondly, that we have sufficient room within the budget to see projects through to completion and sustain them in operation. Thirdly, decisions will be required to meet proposed in-service dates.
Phil Wilson
The National Audit Office has identified a £12.5 billion black hole in the Department’s equipment plan. Will the Secretary of State say how he will fill that black hole?
Mr Hammond
We have done this one before. As I explained to the right hon. Member for East Renfrewshire (Mr Murphy), the £12.5 billion quoted by the NAO is a CAAS figure, based on its assessment of early summer 2012. In October, CAAS reported that it had downgraded its assessment of the contingency requirement to £4.4 billion, which is rather less than we have allocated in the budget.
Peter Luff (Mid Worcestershire) (Con)
This is my opportunity not to ask a question on the defence equipment programme that I believed I would have to ask for a fourth time at Defence questions, but instead to congratulate my right hon. Friend on the programme’s publication. What has been the reaction from industry and elsewhere to the welcome detailed information in the equipment plan, and to its clean bill of health from the NAO?
Mr Hammond
I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who is an aficionado of NAO reports. Anybody who reads NAO reports regularly will recognise that, in context, the report was supportive and favourable. However, it does not make us complacent—we still have a great deal of work to do. I can tell him that the response from industry has been favourable. I chaired a meeting of the defence suppliers forum the week before last, which commented favourably on the report and the guidance it gives in directing its investment in future capability.
Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)
In a written answer on 11 February to my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry South (Mr Cunningham), the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, the hon. Member for Ludlow (Mr Dunne), who has responsibility for defence equipment, said:
“This Government will not blindly pursue projects, ignoring new information about defence equipment acquisitions.”—[Official Report, 11 February 2013; Vol. 558, c. 442W.]
That is obviously vital in core programmes, but the Defence Committee report on defence acquisition suggested that that was exactly what the Government have done. It concluded that decisions were
“rushed and based upon incomplete and inaccurate policy development…and…without the MoD understanding how the change could be implemented.”
Was the Committee wrong to question the Government’s competence?
Mr Hammond
The reference that the hon. Lady cites is specifically to decisions made in 2010. We have received the Committee’s report, we are studying it very carefully and we will publish our response in due course.
Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)
8. What plans he has for the training of reservists.
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr Andrew Robathan)
Defence has committed an additional £1.8 billion investment over 10 years, starting last year, into the reserves, including for training, equipment and recruitment. Reservists will receive the kit and the challenging individual, collective and command training they need to enable them to contribute as part of a fully integrated force.
Army reserves will be trained and be able to routinely deploy at up to sub-unit level and, at times, unit level. This operational requirement will drive improvements in training and equipment, and provide sustainable command and development opportunities both for officers and other ranks. It will also reinforce unit ethos and identity. There will be more structured and focused training up to sub-unit level, and company level overseas training exercises have already started; these will increase in number significantly by 2015.
Richard Drax
I thank the Minister for his answer. Is it wise to scrap regular battalions, such as 2RRF—2nd Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers—before our reservists are fully recruited and trained?
Mr Robathan
Many years ago, I served in the same regiment as my hon. Friend, and he raises a good point. Nobody would pretend that we wish to reduce the regular Army, but unfortunately we are in a dire financial position left by the last Government. We are quite confident that we will be able to recruit up to the 30,000 trained reserves that we want, and we are making good progress.
Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)
Timely and financially prudent training of reservists who will be able to deploy at short notice alongside regular personnel will require the Ministry of Defence to have accurate figures on how many reservists it has, how many it is recruiting on a monthly basis and how many will actually turn up for training. Will the Minister agree to supply, on a monthly basis, figures that show the number of new recruits to reservist forces?
Mr Robathan
I will not agree to do that on a monthly basis, because I do not think it is necessary. However, I will give the hon. Lady some figures. In 2000, under the last Government—whom she supported—the number in the Territorial Army was more than 40,000. We inherited approximately 25,000, and we are very hopeful that we will get the figure up to 30,000, which is what we want to see. The figures will be obvious and we will put them in the Library on a regular basis, but not monthly.
Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)
In the future, the Army’s composition will mean that it is more reliant on reservists, with more reservists being enrolled. In the interests of leading by example, how many civil servants in the Ministry of Defence will be called up as reservists?
Mr Robathan
It is not a question of calling people up, because all reservists, like all regular forces, are volunteers. However, we are encouraging people in the Ministry of Defence to join the reserves. My hon. Friend will know that, among others, the Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty’s Treasury, my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes North (Mark Lancaster), is a reservist, and my hon. Friends the Members for Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt) and for Filton and Bradley Stoke (Jack Lopresti) have served on operations. We certainly believe in leading by example.
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
9. What progress his Department has made on the aircraft carrier programme.
Andy Sawford (Corby) (Lab/Co-op)
16. What progress his Department has made on the aircraft carrier programme.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Dunne)
While I am on my feet and with your indulgence, Mr Speaker, I wish to correct the impression that I may have given in answer to a previous question. The thousands of jobs in Scotland supporting the deterrent are, of course, in Faslane. The other thousands of jobs in Scotland supporting the construction of the QEII class of aircraft carrier—the subject of these questions—are at Rosyth.
There are now more than 30,000 tonnes of ship in the dock at Rosyth. The forward and aft island structures, containing the ship’s bridges, funnels and radar masts, will be fitted in the coming months, followed by the final hull and flight deck sections. The ship will be largely structurally complete by the end of this year and she will be floated off next year. Construction of HMS Prince of Wales is also well under way, with all the lower block units in build.
Diana Johnson
The Select Committee on Defence says that the coalition’s double U-turn on aircraft carriers has cost taxpayers £100 million-plus, and we face years without carrier capability. With Hull considering a bid for the decommissioned HMS Illustrious, is the Minister aware that even Hull might soon have one more aircraft carrier than the Royal Navy?
Mr Dunne
As the hon. Lady has heard already today, the National Audit Office criticised the previous Administration for introducing a delay to the aircraft carrier that cost the taxpayer £1.6 billion, so the Government will not take lessons on how to run a major procurement programme.
Andy Sawford
Will the Minister confirm that the Government’s plans on whether a second aircraft carrier will be deployed will be based on the unit cost of the joint strike fighter, which is still unknown due to budgetary uncertainty in America?
Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con)
I welcome my hon. Friend’s commitment to this programme. Will he confirm that the aircraft carriers will be the largest in British history, and can I urge him not to let anyone put him off building them?
Mr Dunne
My hon. Friend is a redoubtable champion for all matters to do with the armed forces. He is aware that the 65,000 tonne aircraft carriers that will form the Queen Elizabeth class will be not only the largest aircraft carriers ever built in this country, but the largest naval ships ever built in this country.
Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)
10. What plans he has for the future of the defence estate at Bicester.
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr Andrew Robathan)
The Ministry of Defence continues to rationalise its estate and dispose of surplus sites such as RAF Bicester, where a preferred purchaser has been selected and disposal is expected to be completed by the end of the financial year. We have been preparing the Graven Hill site for disposal by submitting a planning application for new homes and commercial redevelopment.
Sir Tony Baldry
I appreciate that a lot is happening with the MOD at Bicester, with surplus land being sold and investment in new logistics and new warehousing, which is good news, because it will mean new opportunities and new jobs. Will my right hon. Friend assure the House, however, that while all that is going on, he will ensure that the existing work force are kept properly informed about what is happening and what is being planned?
Mr Robathan
I agree with my hon. Friend that that is extremely important. I believe that we will do what he asks, and if we do not, I am sure he will bring it to our attention. Since I first went to the Ministry of Defence nearly three years ago, he has been a doughty exponent of the need for the development of commercial and residential estates on old MOD sites. I pay tribute to him for his work on behalf of his constituents.
Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)
12. What support his Department provides to gay people serving in the armed forces.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)
A wide range of support is available to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender members of the armed forces, including LGBT forums and an employee network site, Proud2Serve, which provides them with a key communication tool. In addition, all members of the armed forces are supported by a network of equality and diversity advisers, who are trained to provide support on a range of equality and diversity issues.
Steve Rotheram
At the turn of the millennium, the previous Labour Government ended the ban on homosexual men, lesbians and transgender personnel serving in our armed forces. Given that only one of the Minister’s Defence colleagues voted in favour of equal marriage, can he explain what message he thinks that sends about this Government’s commitment to equality in our armed forces?
Mr Francois
I remind the hon. Gentleman that that was a free vote. With regard to the other issue he raised, we intend to introduce an option for members of the armed forces to record their sexual orientation on our joint personnel administration system if they so wish. I take it that that is a change he would welcome. In the meantime, we have expanded our recruit trainee survey to give personnel the option of providing their sexual orientation if they wish to do so.
Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)
13. What steps he is taking to improve defence procurement.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Dunne)
Reforming defence acquisition and support so that it provides the right equipment to our armed forces at the right time, while driving better value for money from the budget, is a key element of the defence transformation programme currently under way. This is one of my top priorities, which will reverse more than a decade of mismanagement by the Labour Government. Through the materiel strategy work, we have concluded that only significant reform will solve the problems that have for years beset defence procurement. We expect to make decisions on the next steps of that work soon.
Neil Carmichael
Does the Minister agree that the need to ensure that the UK defence industry has encouragement and a sense of continuity is also important to the small and medium-sized businesses that supply the defence industries? What steps is he taking to ensure that they can play a major part?
Mr Dunne
In 2012, 40% of new contracts placed by the MOD were with small and medium-sized enterprises; they are at the heart of the innovation within the supply chain for defence contractors. My hon. Friend may be interested to know that next week I will be addressing an NDI conference in Manchester on the very subject of encouraging SMEs into the defence supply chain.
Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)
Please can the Minister tell me what knowledge he and his Department have of weapons procurement by the Syrian opposition funded by the Saudis and supported by the Americans?
Karl MᶜCartney (Lincoln) (Con)
14. What assessment he has made of the credibility and effectiveness of a part-time nuclear deterrent.
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr Andrew Robathan)
As stated in the 2010 strategic defence and security review:
“The Government will maintain a continuous submarine-based deterrent and begin the work of replacing its existing submarines.”
A deterrent works only if it is credible and available. All the evidence points to a continuous at-sea deterrent, based on Trident, as the best way to deliver the UK’s deterrent effect. A part-time deterrent—for example, where we do not have a submarine permanently on patrol—would make us vulnerable to a pre-emptive strike, and the act of deploying the deterrent in a period of tension would risk escalation at a potentially critical moment.
Karl MᶜCartney
One of the key elements of our nuclear deterrent has been its uninterrupted nature. Does the Minister agree that it is vital that we not only maintain that continuous deterrent, but refrain from conducting defence policy with an idealistic, flip-floppy, Lib Dem view of the world?
Mr Robathan
My hon. Friend draws me to make some disparaging comments before the by-election. I shall refrain from doing so, but I most certainly agree with him.
Mr Speaker
I call Siobhain McDonagh. Not here—[Interruption.] We are never going to be troubled for any length of time, any more than the right hon. Member for South Leicestershire (Mr Robathan) is.
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)
Our priority is and will remain the success of the operation in Afghanistan. Beyond that, my priority is to deliver the military tasks for which the MOD is mandated. The MOD is also engaged in a major project of transformation to bring about the behavioural change that is needed to maintain a balanced budget and to deliver equipment programmes, so that our armed forces can be confident of being properly equipped and trained. To deliver that project, we need to complete the rebasing of the Army from Germany, secure our target level of trained reserves and restructure the Defence Infrastructure Organisation and Defence Equipment and Support. In parallel with the defence transformation project, I am focused on the steps we need to take to restore confidence in the future to those who serve in the armed forces after a period of turbulence and uncertainty.
Andy Sawford
Why do the Government think it right that the pension age for firefighters in the defence fire and rescue service is to be aligned with the civil service pension age, rather than with the age for civilian firefighters, given that the job done by those serving in our defence services is no less dangerous, and certainly no less physically challenging, than that done by other firefighters?
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)
Lord Newby has been leading negotiations on behalf of the Treasury as the Public Service Pensions Bill has gone through another place. We are now working with our colleagues in the Cabinet Office and the Treasury to understand the implications of the amendment made to the Bill in the House of Lords, which I believe is at the heart of the hon. Gentleman’s question. We are currently considering how to respond.
Stephen Phillips (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)
T3. My hon. Friend will be aware of recent problems caused by former military personnel accessing the MOD estate. Will he tell the House what measures he is going to implement to deal with this matter?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Dunne)
I am grateful for this opportunity to announce a comprehensive set of measures implemented in the MOD by the Secretary of State to ensure that both former and current employees are clear about the rules and restrictions on access.
For the first time, a list of all ex-MOD personnel who are subject to lobbying restrictions under the rules of the Advisory Committee for Business Appointments will be available for all MOD staff to see. The MOD permanent secretary has written to all former MOD personnel who are subject to business appointment restrictions to remind them of their duties under the advisory committee, and to the Association of Defence Suppliers to ensure that industry members are aware of the rules. Transparency measures have been radically increased, and since the review the permanent secretary has removed nearly 2,500 passes allowing access to the MOD’s main building to ensure that only members of staff who require regular access to the MOD are granted it. Passes that have not been used for 60 days have been disabled, and there will be an ongoing audit of those who are granted visitor passes.
Mr Jim Murphy (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)
When Ministers were last asked about the need to double the reserve force numbers, they dodged the question, instead talking about the increase in Territorial Army inquiries. Today we have heard from Ministers that they are hopeful that the policy will be a success. However, a policy that the country needs to be a success is being totally mishandled, with missed targets and too few businesses aware of the Government’s plans. Instead of talking about inquiries, will Ministers now place on record the fact that recruitment targets are being missed? Surely, in relation to this important issue, accepting that there is a problem would be the first step towards dealing with the problem.
Mr Hammond
Let me say to the right hon. Gentleman that the way in which we will not increase confidence in the Territorial Army, and will not increase reserve numbers, is arbitrarily cancelling its members’ training, cutting their kit and relegating them to the second division, which is what his party did in government. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. The right hon. Member for East Renfrewshire (Mr Murphy) is assuming that there is an automatic link between what he says and what the Secretary of State says, which is itself the creation of a notable parliamentary precedent. However, it is not for the right hon. Gentleman to yell from a sedentary position. He asked the question; whether he likes the answer or not, he is getting an answer, and he owes the Secretary of State the courtesy of hearing it.
Mr Hammond
That is certainly not a precedent that I noticed during my 13 years of opposition.
Let me say this to the right hon. Gentleman. We know that we have set ourselves a substantial challenge in increasing the size of the Army reserve to 30,000. We have a number of measures in train, including a new recruiting campaign which started only 10 days ago. We expect to start to make significant progress this year. We will be publishing details of recruitment and retention figures, and as my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Armed Forces suggested earlier, we will do that periodically and regularly—not, I think, monthly, but probably on a quarterly basis.
Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)
T4. I understand that it costs about £14 million a year for HMS Bulwark’s sister ship, HMS Albion, to sit in Portsmouth doing not very much. Given the Prime Minister’s new-found enthusiasm for spending on our armed services, may I suggest that some of the money be used to put this wonderful ship to sea—if for no other reason than to help the Department for International Development?
Mr Dunne
The Prime Minister has always been enthusiastic in his support for defence, but as my hon. Friend knows, in October 2010, as part of SDSR 2010, we outlined plans to place one of our two landing platform dock vessels at extended readiness, while holding the other at high readiness for operations. HMS Albion entered a period of extended readiness in late 2011, and according to current plans will remain at Her Majesty’s naval base Devonport until her upkeep is completed in 2016. At that point, HMS Bulwark will go into extended readiness and HMS Albion will be placed at high readiness for operations.
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
T8. Bearing in mind what the Minister said about the military covenant and the Liberal Democrats’ 2010 campaign for a fair deal for our troops, will he now publish the impact assessment—which I am sure he undertook—of the effect of the bedroom tax on the armed forces, and the actual numbers affected?
Mr Francois
I have to say to the hon. Lady that I believe that she and some of her parliamentary colleagues are becoming over-excited about this. We have discussed it with the Department for Work and Pensions, and we believe that a very small number of service personnel will be affected, but we will continue to keep the matter under review.
David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)
T5. Since 1990, the Army has been reduced by about 40%, but officer numbers are down by less than 30%. Indeed, there are more colonels now than there were then. Is there more that we can do to ensure that the cuts are proportionate?
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr Andrew Robathan)
We are committed to reducing—and, indeed, are reducing— the star count in the Ministry of Defence by 25%, which means those with the rank of brigadier and above. It is true that the number of colonels is higher than in 1990, but it has fallen by 80 since 1 April 2010, and some of the jobs that those officers do are specific to NATO or to defence engagements. For instance, some are defence attachés. We need all those jobs, and that is why we employ those people. However, my hon. Friend has raised a very good point.
Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab)
T9. The Minister for defence personnel will know that for the past two months I have been trying to secure a meeting with him to discuss the financial losses faced by Army officers who are being made redundant shortly before their immediate pension point. To date, he has not agreed to such a meeting. Will he do so today? If not, can he tell me how members of our armed forces should raise their concerns with this Government about broken promises on their conditions of service?
Mr Francois
I recently wrote back to the hon. Lady on this precise subject. I hope she has received the letter—she is nodding, and says that she has. I have also written to Ms Jayne Bullock, who wrote to me originally, and to a number of other servicemen’s wives who have campaigned on the matter. I remind the hon. Lady and others who support the so-called taper model, which a number of people have argued for, that we used that model for redundancies up to 2005-06, when the previous Government abandoned it.
Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)
T6. Last year, with colleagues, I visited the British peace support team in Nairobi. Does the Secretary of State agree that the valuable work it does at the international mine action training centre and in training peacekeepers from the east African armed forces plays a vital role in helping to bring about the stability that is essential to economic, social and political development?
Mr Robathan
I certainly agree with my hon. Friend and pay tribute to the work done by the team, which, as the House will note, is broadly in peacekeeping, ending conflict and mine clearance. We should all pay tribute to that work and we very much value our defence engagement in Kenya.
Mr Frank Roy (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State tell the House how many jobs will be lost at Faslane nuclear base if Scotland separates from the United Kingdom?
Mr Philip Hammond
As the House will know, the Government are confident that the Scottish people will decide in the referendum that the benefits of union far outweigh anything else on offer and will make the right decision. The hon. Gentleman is right to observe that significant numbers of jobs, not just in the immediate vicinity but across the whole of the west of Scotland—thousands of jobs—depend on the operation at Faslane. When I was last at the base, I made a specific inquiry about the geographical location of workers. People come to the base daily from the east coast, so such a change would affect the whole central area of Scotland.
Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)
T7. Constituents of mine, including Councillor Jenny Purcell, have raised with me the worrying case of soldier Harry Killick, who suffers from post-traumatic stress and has received recent press coverage. What steps is my right hon. Friend taking to provide support for personnel with post-traumatic stress disorder, such as Harry?
Mr Francois
The case of Corporal Killick is still before the court, with sentencing deferred pending advice on his mental health. I hope that the House will appreciate that it would therefore not be appropriate for me to comment further today. However, in general terms, when on operational deployment members of the reserve forces, such as Corporal Killick, have access to the same extensive range of mental health counselling and treatment as their regular colleagues, including access to mental health professionals in theatre and treatment in military-run departments of community mental health, if necessary. This issue is a priority for the Government, who have invested £7.2 million in it.
Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)
In response to my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns), the Secretary of State said that he had “right-sized” the Army in line with the defence budget. How would he rebut the suggestion that that sounds like the strategic defence review was not strategic but budget-driven?
Mr Philip Hammond
It sounds like a Government who are rejecting the previous Government’s policy of sending people out to do a dangerous job without the kit, equipment and support that they need and deserve. We have a moral obligation not to put people in harm’s way unless they are properly equipped, and setting the size of the armed forces at a level the taxpayer can afford to support and equip properly is the morally correct and appropriate thing to do.
Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)
I would like to ask the Secretary of State whether it is the case that when service personnel are accused of breaking the law their pay is stopped with immediate effect, which can cause real hardship to service families who are left unable to meet the costs of rent, bills and food, as well as of independent legal advice. If that is so, what is the justification for that and will he review the situation?
Mr Robathan
The hon. Lady raises a very important point, but I am pretty certain that that is not the case, although I will write to her if it turns out that I am wrong. Nobody has their pay stopped until and if they are convicted of a criminal offence or at a court martial. If I am wrong I will let her know.
Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)
Products from Belted Galloway beef cattle reared and slaughtered on the Falkland Islands travel 30 miles to the NAAFI shop at Mount Pleasant. To be used in the kitchens, I am told by the Falkland Islands Government, the beef travels 8,000 miles back to the United Kingdom, is rebagged and goes back. Is that smart procurement?
Mr Dunne
Food for our armed forces on operations, including in the Falklands, is supplied under a contract with Purple Foodservice, which undertakes supply to our forces wherever they are stationed. The hon. Gentleman raises an interesting point and I will look specifically, and write to him, as to whether there is any possibility of shortening procurement lines for beef in the Falklands.
Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con)
In Portsmouth and the surrounding area, we have world-leading maritime infrastructure, including dockyards, port facilities, marinas, protected and controlled waters, Europe’s largest hydrodynamic tank and a host of high-end maritime electronics system design and integration facilities. As well as maintaining the 200,000 tonnes of warship that will soon be in the harbour, ought we not to be capitalising on those assets too?
Mr Dunne
My hon. Friend is right to highlight the wide range of world-class defence-based skills around the maritime industry in Portsmouth. We will continue to capitalise on the capabilities offered around Her Majesty’s naval base, providing vital defence jobs for thousands in Portsmouth and the surrounding area, including along the M27 in Eastleigh.
Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab)
Given the earlier answer about equipment for our armed forces and given the plight of the remaining Remploy factories, will the Minister use his good offices to ensure that Remploy factories are the first preference for providing equipment and other procurement within the remit? The Remploy factory in my constituency has a long-standing relationship with the MOD, and if the MOD would commit to continue it, the factory may—just may—be secure.
Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con)
My hon. Friend has worked hard on the award of the Arctic Convoy Star medal to veterans of the second world war Artic convoys. He will appreciate that time is of the essence, so will he pledge to complete the necessary processes as soon as possible so that the remaining Arctic convoy veterans can receive their hard and bravely earned recognition?
Mr Francois
I thank my hon. Friend for that pertinent question. I am pleased to tell the House that since the Prime Minister’s announcement, considerable progress has been made on the introduction of the Arctic star. I hope to make an announcement very shortly on the design, eligibility criteria and application process for the new award. Similarly, I hope to make an announcement about the Bomber Command class at the same time. Both categories of men served their country with great distinction and it is right that we recognise them.