All 18 contributions to the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 (Ministerial Extracts Only)

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Mon 14th Nov 2016
Technical and Further Education Bill
Commons Chamber

Money resolution: House of Commons & 2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Tue 22nd Nov 2016
Technical and Further Education Bill (First sitting)
Public Bill Committees

Committee Debate: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Thu 24th Nov 2016
Technical and Further Education Bill (Third sitting)
Public Bill Committees

Committee Debate: 3rd sitting: House of Commons
Thu 24th Nov 2016
Technical and Further Education Bill (Fourth sitting)
Public Bill Committees

Committee Debate: 4th sitting: House of Commons
Tue 29th Nov 2016
Technical and Further Education Bill (Fifth sitting)
Public Bill Committees

Committee Debate: 5th sitting: House of Commons
Tue 29th Nov 2016
Technical and Further Education Bill (Sixth sitting)
Public Bill Committees

Committee Debate: 6th sitting: House of Commons
Thu 1st Dec 2016
Thu 1st Dec 2016
Technical and Further Education Bill (Eighth sitting)
Public Bill Committees

Committee Debate: 8th sitting: House of Commons
Mon 9th Jan 2017
Technical and Further Education Bill
Commons Chamber

3rd reading: House of Commons & Legislative Grand Committee: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Wed 1st Feb 2017
Technical and Further Education Bill
Lords Chamber

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wed 22nd Feb 2017
Technical and Further Education Bill
Grand Committee

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Mon 27th Feb 2017
Technical and Further Education Bill
Grand Committee

Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wed 1st Mar 2017
Technical and Further Education Bill
Grand Committee

Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Mon 27th Mar 2017
Technical and Further Education Bill
Lords Chamber

Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Mon 27th Mar 2017
Technical and Further Education Bill
Lords Chamber

Report stage (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Tue 4th Apr 2017
Technical and Further Education Bill
Lords Chamber

3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wed 19th Apr 2017
Tue 25th Apr 2017
Technical and Further Education Bill
Lords Chamber

Ping Pong (Hansard): House of Lords

Technical and Further Education Bill

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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Money resolution: House of Commons & 2nd reading: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Monday 14th November 2016

(7 years, 5 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Justine Greening Portrait The Secretary of State for Education (Justine Greening)
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I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

The background to the Bill is that the Government have worked tirelessly over the past six years to embed our school reforms so that we can raise standards and ensure that an excellent academic route is open to all students. That work continues. Thanks in no small part to the hard work of the teaching profession, over 1.4 million more children are now being taught in schools rated as good or outstanding compared with 2010. This is vital if we are to be a country in which everyone not only has a level playing field for opportunity, but has their potential unlocked and can thereby do their best. This transformational progress has been great news, particularly for those young people who choose to build on their time at school by pursuing an academic route through Britain’s world-class universities on their way to joining the workforce and making a contribution to the economy. The truth is, however, that half—last year, most—of our young people, often those from disadvantaged backgrounds will choose not to go to university, but to follow a less purely academic route, or perhaps one that plays to their individual strengths, talents and interests.

Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)
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The Secretary of State will know that we are failing nationally to train enough graduate engineers to serve our own needs. One reason is the teaching of mathematics and the failure of young people to acquire skills in that subject. A lot of effort has been put into improving the quality of mathematics teaching in schools. Are we now starting to see the fruits of that extra effort?

Justine Greening Portrait Justine Greening
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I believe that we are. Not only have we seen investment in more effective mathematics teaching—through some of the Mathematics Mastery work, for example—but we have tried to widen participation by making sure that girls do maths and science courses, thereby better balancing our engineering careers between men and women. Alongside that—this is why the Bill matters so much—we must recognise routes into such professions that are not purely academic which, for many of our young people, will take the form of technical education.

Tristram Hunt Portrait Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab)
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Do the Government still want young people who do not achieve a C or above in maths and English to repeat their GCSEs, rather than having a more useful level 2 post-16 qualification?

Justine Greening Portrait Justine Greening
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We have been clear that we do not want children to be left behind by not getting a GCSE in maths or English when they could have achieved one, so we want those who score a D to take resits. For others, however, there is the option to study for functional skills qualifications, and it is important for employers that we make sure those functional skills qualifications work effectively.

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Justine Greening Portrait Justine Greening
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I will make a little more progress. I will definitely let the hon. Gentleman intervene but, as he will know, I have some way to go as I introduce the Bill.

I was setting out how most young people will not necessarily go down an academic route, but choose more a technical educational route. Despite that fact, the technical education route open to those young people for decades has often lacked sufficient quality and failed to offer a proper pathway into the world of work. That is not acceptable. If we are to create a country that works for everyone, it is time that we gave technical education the focus its deserves, alongside our school and academic education reforms, so that people who choose to pursue this route have as good a chance at getting a high-skilled career as someone taking an academic route.

Nic Dakin Portrait Nic Dakin
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I think that everyone applauds the direction of travel for technical education. In response to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt) about GCSE maths and English, the Secretary of State focused on functional skills. Is she saying that those functional skills will remain as an equal qualification in the future, because I do not think that that is being said to institutions or students?

Justine Greening Portrait Justine Greening
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What we are saying is that we want an education system, particularly at the primary and secondary level, that really stretches our young people to get through their GCSEs and to come out with GCSE qualifications that are well recognised and respected by employers. Alongside the resit policy, we want strong functional skills qualifications that can, in conjunction with a broader offer for technical education, enable young people to demonstrate their attainment in both maths and English. No young person should leave our education system without something to show for all their time spent on maths and English. It is important that they are able clearly to demonstrate their level of attainment to employers. At the same time, we need to make sure that people achieve as high a level of attainment as possible to recognise their potential in maths and English. STEM subjects, especially maths and English, have been a strong push for this Government so that we ensure that we give young people the critical building blocks that are important not just for their future careers and work but, much more broadly, so that they have a chance of being successful in life.

Lucy Powell Portrait Lucy Powell (Manchester Central) (Lab/Co-op)
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The Secretary of State is being generous with her time. There is still quite a lot of confusion about this point. She says that she wants to make sure that GCSEs are well understood and that they have a certain status, so will she clarify whether those who will take the new maths and English GCSEs next year will be required to resit if they get a 4 or if they get a 5? Will that apply thereafter, or is it a transitional arrangement?

Justine Greening Portrait Justine Greening
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Of course, a level 4 broadly equates to a C grade. We will make sure that the resit policy aligns with the new way of grading GCSEs that will come through next summer. I hope Members recognise that the most important thing is to ensure that young people come out of our education system with adequate skills, particularly in maths and English, as well as—dare I say—adequate digital skills, which are also important.

The aim of the Bill is to ensure that there is a genuine choice between high-quality academic and technical education routes. The Government want to build on what exists in the further and technical education sector and steadily create a gold standard of technical education for the first time so that students can be confident that if they commit their time and effort to a course, they will be building towards a successful career. We will unlock those opportunities only by addressing the challenges facing further education. We need to get to the root causes of poor-quality provision, including weak employer engagement, ineffective training methods, the proliferation of qualifications that are not highly valued and, of course, institutions with uncertain finances.

James Berry Portrait James Berry (Kingston and Surbiton) (Con)
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Is collaboration between local institutions part of the process? Will my right hon. Friend commend the work of Kingston College in leading the way by federating with Carshalton College to provide a much better offer to local students?

Justine Greening Portrait Justine Greening
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That work shows that colleges acting collectively can provide not only a higher-quality offer, but a broader one. We hope that through the local area review, other colleges will steadily make sure that they are co-ordinating their local provision for young people. Wherever young people are growing up, it is vital there is a strong further education offer on their doorstep if they want to follow a technical education route.

The good news is that much of the work is already well under way. Lord Sainsbury’s report on skills in this country led to the skills plan, which was published in July by my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford (Nick Boles). Let me take this opportunity to wish him well, as will Members on both sides of the House, following the recent announcement about his health. I am sure that all Members look forward to seeing him back in the House as soon as possible.

The vision that my hon. Friend outlined in the skills plan involves streamlining technical education so that, despite the plethora of career opportunities, there are clearly identified routes into work that students can easily understand and that enable them to make informed decisions about their futures. The skills plan also explains how important it is for employers to play a big role so that the qualifications that young people obtain equip them with the skills and knowledge that they need to enter the jobs market successfully and start their careers. I shall come on to how the Bill will help us to deliver that.

Some 2.4 million apprenticeships were created during the previous Parliament. We want to build on our commitment to increasing both the quantity and quality of apprenticeships, and we remain committed to our target of creating 3 million more by 2020.

Peter Kyle Portrait Peter Kyle (Hove) (Lab)
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I accept that the Secretary of State is determined to ensure that enough students and other young people take up apprenticeships, but will she commit herself to a target for completing them, as well as a target for starting them?

Justine Greening Portrait Justine Greening
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We do want to ensure that students complete their apprenticeships. As the hon. Gentleman will know, the Higher Education and Research Bill commits us to widening our review of how inclusive and open higher education is, taking account of not just the number of young people who embark on courses, but the number who finish them, particularly if they are from more disadvantaged and diverse backgrounds.

As part of last year’s spending review, we announced that we would provide more than half a billion pounds this year alone to help further education colleges and sixth forms to support students from disadvantaged backgrounds or those with low prior attainment. Moreover, we are already committed to future funding levels. Those assurances will give the sector the security that it requires to deliver the skills that young people need if they are to succeed in modern Britain. We are committed to doubling the 2010-11 spending on apprenticeships, in cash terms, by 2019-20, and to protecting the national base rate of £4,000 per student in 16-to-19 education for the duration of this Parliament. By 2019-20, our funding for 19-plus skills participation will be £3.4 billion, which represents a cash increase of 40% on 2015-16. The steady progress of the Government’s programme of area reviews for the further education sector means that we have taken another important step towards giving institutions the opportunity to put themselves on a secure financial footing.

Justine Greening Portrait Justine Greening
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I will give way once more.

Lucy Powell Portrait Lucy Powell
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I thank the Secretary of State for her generosity. I welcome the fact that further education funding streams have stabilised recently, but does she accept that the pernicious and deep cuts that the Government imposed on further education and technical education budgets during their first five years in office had a long-lasting and difficult impact on further education, and that that is why we are now so far behind our international comparators when it comes to post-16 funding?

Justine Greening Portrait Justine Greening
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I do not accept the picture that the hon. Lady presents. In the long term, our technical education offer for young people has not met the ambitions that all of us should have had for it. However, when we went into government in 2010, we asked Alison Wolf to look into further education. Her report said that at least 350,000 young people had been let down by courses that had

“little to no labour market value.”

She said that those courses were not valued by employers and did not prepare young people for further study. Perhaps as damagingly, she also said that students had been “deliberately steered” away from challenging qualifications—that

“funding incentives have deliberately steered institutions, and, therefore, their students, away from qualifications that might stretch (and reward) young people and towards qualifications that can be passed easily.”

I make the point about what Alison Wolf said about the further and technical education system to demonstrate why the body of work undertaken over the last six years is so important. It has at its heart the Sainsbury review that was undertaken alongside Alison Wolf’s work, and what came out of that was the skills plan. I hope that Members on both sides of the House will now swing in behind the skills plan and, indeed, the Bill, which is part of how we will develop it.

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer (Finchley and Golders Green) (Con)
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What steps are being taken to address the continuing gender imbalance in our apprenticeships?

Justine Greening Portrait Justine Greening
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My hon. Friend raises an important point. We want to make sure that young girls get exactly the same opportunities as young boys. We know that part of the challenge relates to the kinds of industries that might offer apprenticeships. The hon. Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins) asked me about the engineering profession. It is important to ensure that the technical education route is as desirable for young women as it is for young men, and among the ways we will do that is by steadily changing its image, by ensuring that it is of high quality, and by making sure that people know that if they follow this route, they will come out with experience and qualifications that employers truly value. That is why part of the Bill’s purpose is to put employers at the heart of our technical education strategy.

University technical colleges have also been established to address skills gaps in local and national industries. They provide technical education that meets the needs of modern businesses. Indeed, they also give a much different offer to young people who are interested in specialising through a technical education route.

Justine Greening Portrait Justine Greening
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I would like to make a little more progress. I recognise the hon. Gentleman’s long-standing interest and expertise in this area, but let me get on to the Bill itself.

Alongside our wider education reforms, the Government’s work on technical and further education over the past six years represents a firm foundation on which we can now build a really strong technical route in this country. The Bill serves to do exactly that. Part 1 focuses on technical education. It extends the role of the Institute for Apprenticeships to give it responsibility for classroom-based technical education in addition to apprenticeships. It will be renamed as the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education. The measures take forward and support the reforms set out in Lord Sainsbury’s report and the skills plan so we can truly streamline the technical education system and ensure young people can follow clear routes to skilled employment. That will ensure that we have strong standards as part of an employer-led approach on technical education so that courses and apprenticeships develop knowledge, skills and behaviours in individuals that meet the needs of employers and improve overall productivity.

Rob Marris Portrait Rob Marris (Wolverhampton South West) (Lab)
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The right hon. Lady may well know that those of us who have worked in factories and in similar jobs realise that often the people at the chalk face, as it were, know at least as much as employers about what skills are needed. How will we ensure the revamped institute includes workers or their representatives—as well as employers, of course—so that there is a rounded view of what is needed and what is appropriate for a particular skill?

Justine Greening Portrait Justine Greening
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As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Government have talked significantly about our plans to make sure that workers have more representation at the higher echelons of business. As the Institute for Apprenticeships becomes responsible for technical education, it will of course have employers at its heart, but it will also work with other stakeholders including, importantly, further education colleges themselves. We will make sure that the institute can truly deliver on our ambition for it to be at the heart of how we drive forward and improve standards in technical education.

Part 2 of the Bill puts in place protections for students for the first time and provides greater certainty for institutions by introducing an insolvency regime for further education and sixth-form colleges. It applies normal insolvency procedures to colleges. At present it is not clear whether or how colleges are covered by existing insolvency law, and the resultant uncertainty is bad for colleges and for students. The Bill will remove the uncertainty for all parties by putting in place a regime that allows for an orderly process in the very unlikely event of a college becoming insolvent. As I have said, we need to rectify the lack of protection for students. Crucially, chapter 4 of part 2 will put in place a special administration regime that will have the special objective of minimising or avoiding disruption to the studies of existing students at affected colleges. These measures will ensure that students can be protected if a college becomes insolvent.

As I mentioned earlier, the current programme of area-based reviews is already putting the sector on a sustainable financial footing for the future. Part of the review process is to encourage colleges to consider needs and provision locally. That will help to ensure that the right provision is available in the right places. The proposed insolvency regime and technical education measures also require certain delegated powers, and we will be providing more information about those to the House before the Bill goes into Committee.

Part 3 of the Bill, the title of which is “Further education: information”, includes a measure to amend existing legislation to ensure that, after the devolution of further education functions and the adult education budget to a combined authority, FE providers and others will continue to submit relevant information to the national data system. This will ensure the continued availability of relevant data that are needed to make intelligent and strategic policy decisions about investment in further education.

Six years ago, we inherited a system from Labour in which too many young people—often those from the most disadvantaged backgrounds—left school or college without the skills and qualifications that they needed to build a successful future. Our wide-reaching reforms have had a transformational effect on the education system in this country, and it is important that we now build on the work of my two immediate predecessors in this role, my right hon. Friends the Members for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove) and for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan).

We know that there is still so much more to do, which is why we are doubling free childcare for working parents of three and four-year-olds to 30 hours a week. We are also working hard to put our first-class universities on an even stronger footing so that they can continue to compete with the very best in the world. We are starting work on opportunity areas to ensure that the education system as a whole can work better to drive social mobility in those parts of the country where it has been stalled for generations, and we have doubled the previous Labour Government’s spending on school places and set out plans to make more good and outstanding school places available to more families all over the country.

The newly broadened remit of the Department for Education, with skills and further education back under one roof alongside schools, gives us an exciting opportunity to build on the excellent work that has already been done over the past six years, both in FE and in the wider education sector. In the end, education underpins how this Government want to create a country that works for everyone so that, irrespective of their background, people can get the skills that they need to take advantage of the opportunities in our country. This is not only good for individuals, but will ensure that we have the skills that our businesses and our economy need so that we can drive up prosperity across the country. The Bill will allow us to take the next steps to give the technical and further education route the status and the spotlight it deserves so that it can flourish as a genuine, high-quality alternative to the academic route, and one that leads to successful careers for those who choose to pursue it. I commend the Bill to the House.

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Lucy Powell Portrait Lucy Powell
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I apologise, Madam Deputy Speaker. I want to put it on the record that it was I who was speaking from a sedentary position. The Minister is indeed at the vanguard, but the only other discernible member of the Government is the Minister for the Armed Forces, who is standing behind the Speaker’s Chair.

Robert Halfon Portrait The Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills (Robert Halfon)
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May I make a quick point? As the debate has highlighted today, it is quality, not quantity, that counts.

David Rutley Portrait David Rutley
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Indeed.

The Bill is timely. After strenuous efforts to stabilise the economy following the financial crisis, the UK faces a new opportunity—and some challenges—in Brexit. If we are to make a success of leaving the EU, it is increasingly urgent that we tackle our long-standing productivity gap compared with other leading economies. The challenge is to upskill the existing and future British workforce. It is interesting that the Chartered Management Institute says that one in four jobs was left vacant in 2015, owing to skills shortages.

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Robert Halfon Portrait The Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills (Robert Halfon)
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I welcome the thoughtful contributions to the debate from Members on both sides of the House.

This important Bill has two purposes: to provide high-quality technical education to students; and, when colleges are suffering extreme financial difficulties, to provide clarity in the unlikely event of insolvency while protecting students as part of the process. The Bill has the protection and best interests of students at its heart, which is why David Hughes, the chief executive of the Association of Colleges, has stated that he is

“pleased that the Government is continuing to take forward the measures outlined in the Post-16 Skills Plan”.

The Bill is vital because we face serious challenges: a chronic shortage of high-skilled technicians; acute skills shortages in science, technology, engineering and maths; and low levels of literacy and numeracy compared with other OECD countries. A number of Members have raised an important issue about maths. We do not yet require all 17-year-olds who have not achieved an A to C in maths and English to resit the qualifications. Students who achieve lower than a D grade at 16 may take other qualifications. We are looking at functional skills. I want functional skills to be better and for them to be as prestigious to employers as other skills.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
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I ask the hon. Gentleman to hold on one second, because he said that he wanted resources for maths, and we have invested £67 million to recruit up to 2,500 additional maths and physics teachers, and to upskill up to 15,000 non-specialists. We are investing the resources.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
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I will not give way because of the shortage of time.

A number of hon. Members mentioned the Maynard reforms. We will implement those as soon as we possibly can, particularly with regard to the issue of maths for those with disabilities. We will inform the House as progress is made.

The hon. Member for Hove (Peter Kyle) talked about the levy and technology. The thing is that if companies have apprentices, they do not pay the levy, and they get 10% on top. This is about changing behaviour and raising money to fund millions of apprenticeships in our country.

We have substantially grown apprenticeships, with 619,000 starts, which is why we have the levy. It will have an impact on employers with a pay bill of £3 million or more and help to fund the quantity and quality of apprenticeship training. We are dramatically reducing the number of technical qualifications available, ensuring even better quality for students.

A lot has been said about FE funding, but by 2020 more will be spent on FE and skills participation than at any time in our island’s history—£3.4 billion in the year 2019-20. My hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) correctly described FE as a ladder of opportunity for young people.[Official Report, 20 December 2016, Vol. 618, c. 11MC.]

We are adopting the Sainsbury report, as has been suggested, and will put in place 15 high-quality technical routes to skilled employment. Those will be implemented by the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education, which will oversee the employer-led reforms.

We are proud of the university technical colleges. There is clearly a debate here, as some Members want those for pupils at 14 and some for education at 16. That debate will no doubt continue, but we allow flexible entry to UTCs in certain circumstances.

My hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (David Rutley) asked about the role of business. We have created the Careers & Enterprise Company to boost businesses’ linking up with students in schools.

The hon. Member for Wolverhampton South West (Rob Marris) talked about representation. I am very keen for all kinds of organisations to be represented. I am a trade union member myself, and I am very proud that this Government give Unionlearn £12 million. It has an incredible fund that supports thousands of learners and apprentices. I very much hope that trade unions will be involved in the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education. The institute will ensure that all technical provision, across both apprenticeships and college-based courses, matches the very best in the world.

Rob Marris Portrait Rob Marris
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Will the Minister give way?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
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I am sorry, but we have very little time.

Rob Marris Portrait Rob Marris
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On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Order Paper I have says that this debate can continue until 10 pm. Am I misreading it?

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Eleanor Laing Portrait Madam Deputy Speaker
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Mr Hunt is excited at the prospect of another three hours from the Minister, but it is incumbent on every Member of this House to judge the mood of the House, the pace of the debate and the necessity of taking up the time of the House. From my observation and experience, a speech of between 10 and 15 minutes from a Minister winding up is usually appropriate and welcomed by most Members of the House.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
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The hon. Gentleman and other Opposition Members talked about quality, not quantity. They should practise what they preach.

Let me give an example of the technical education reforms in practice. For someone aspiring to be an engineer, rather than choosing from the 500 qualifications that are currently on offer, many of which hold very little value for employers, there will be one clear route: the new engineering and manufacturing route. That individual will choose an apprenticeship or college-based technical education course by choosing an occupation. They will initially learn a broad base of knowledge based on one approved standard per occupation, and then they will specialise, for example towards electrical engineering. The awarded certificate will be universally recognised and have real value for employers. That is an example of the nature of our technical reforms.

There is no doubt that FE and sixth-form colleges play a vital role in our education system, as the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) noted so brilliantly. That is why I have visited my own FE college more than 50 times since becoming an MP. FE colleges act as genuine centres of expertise. We know that, because 80% of colleges are either good or outstanding, and 79% of adult FE students get jobs, move to apprenticeships or progress to university afterwards. It is worth noting that 59% of institutions are in good financial health and 52% are operating with a surplus.

A minority of colleges, however, are in serious financial difficulties—about 40 colleges face these problems. In supporting these colleges, we forecast by March 2017 a total spend of £140 million on exceptional financial support. That £140 million could have been invested in students. We have to deal with the roots of these problems and ensure that we protect students, which was why we started the area reviews, about which there has been much discussion. They will be completed by March 2017 and will ensure financial resilience, strong leadership and well-governed institutions. We have a moral duty to students that money is spent on learning, and a duty to deliver value for money for the taxpayer. Money that would otherwise be spent servicing debt will be freed up to invest in high-quality education and learning.

Jo Churchill Portrait Jo Churchill
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Will the Minister give way for a brief intervention?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
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I am very sorry, but I cannot because of time, even to my hon. Friend. I apologise.

Let me be clear: no FE or sixth-form college will close as a direct result of the Bill. The Bill will help to ensure prudent borrowing and lending, and to safeguard the protection of students.

The insolvency regime under the Bill will clarify what will happen should a college become insolvent. The special administrative regime we are introducing will allow Ministers to take action to ensure that learners are protected. There will be duties on the Secretary of State to promote education, and to provide suitable apprenticeship training and basic skills training for certain people. All existing statutory requirements will stay in place. Local authorities are also legally responsible for promoting effective participation and making clear how transport arrangements support young people of sixth-form age to access opportunities. That is not to say, however, that creditors are not important. Colleges and banks have long worked together to grow and develop the FE sector. The Bill will introduce a clear process for all involved should a college become insolvent, and will reassure creditors about how their debt will be treated.

The reforms in the Bill are fundamental to the Government’s vision for a country that works for everyone. It will ensure that we improve the skills base in our country, that we increase our economic productivity, that we protect students, and that those from the most disadvantaged backgrounds have a chance to climb up the ladder of opportunity. I commend the Bill to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

Technical and Further Education Bill (Programme)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the Technical and Further Education Bill:

Committal

1. The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee.

Proceedings in Public Bill Committee

2. Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Tuesday 6 December 2016.

3. The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.

Proceedings on Consideration and up to and including Third Reading

4. Proceedings on Consideration and the proceedings in legislative grand committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings are commenced.

5. Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day.

6. Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on Consideration and up to and including Third Reading.

Other proceedings

7. Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments or on any further messages from the Lords) may be programmed.—(Heather Wheeler.)

Question agreed to.

Technical and Further Education Bill (Money)

Queen’s recommendation signified.

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Technical and Further Education Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of—

(1) any expenditure incurred under or by virtue of the Act by the Secretary of State, and

(2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable under any other Act out of money so provided.—(Heather Wheeler.)

Question agreed to.

Technical and Further Education Bill (Ways and Means)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Technical and Further Education Bill, it is expedient to authorise—

(1) the charging of fees, and

(2) the payment of sums into the Consolidated Fund.—(Heather Wheeler.)

Question agreed to.

Homelessness Reduction Bill (Money)

Queen’s recommendation signified.

Resolved,

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Homelessness Reduction Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable under any other Act out of money so provided.—(Mr Marcus Jones.)

Technical and Further Education Bill (First sitting)

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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Committee Debate: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 22nd November 2016

(7 years, 4 months ago)

Public Bill Committees
Technical and Further Education Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 22 November 2016 - (22 Nov 2016)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

On that point, we all try very hard to get the apprentice voice heard, so it is unfortunate that the witness cannot come today. On the original list of witnesses was the name of Baroness Wolf, which has since disappeared, so she is obviously not giving evidence to us today. Do we know the background to that?

David Evennett Portrait The Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty’s Treasury (David Evennett)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I believe she is unavailable to come along today because of other commitments. We are disappointed, but obviously people have full diaries.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Indeed, and she is a very busy lady.

Technical and Further Education Bill (Third sitting)

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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Committee Debate: 3rd sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 24th November 2016

(7 years, 4 months ago)

Public Bill Committees
Technical and Further Education Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 24 November 2016 - (24 Nov 2016)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

None Portrait The Chair
- Hansard -

Obviously that is not a matter for the Chair. However, the point has been made and I invite the Minister, if he wishes to respond, to do so.

Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is further to that point of order, Mr Bailey. I just want to support my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool South. I arrived at the House fairly recently and picked up the paper from my office, but I have not had time to read it, and it is clearly lengthy. I entirely support what he said and hope that the Minister will be accommodating.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The existing policy statement has already been on the gov.uk website for several weeks, as has the delegated powers memorandum. What was provided last night was an expanded refresh, but we have provided information on the policy, and that is the key point.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I appreciate what the Minister says about the original version having been on the website, but the point is that this is not the original but an expanded version. He used the word “refresh”, which, if I may say so, politely, is another slightly slippery term that would be best avoided. This is actually an amended version of what was on the website, which is why we are raising the issue.

We broadly support the principles of the Bill. We are trying to take it forward and do due diligence, as all members of the Committee should want to do. This is not a partisan argument or an opportunity to score points; it is about treating the Committee with the respect it deserves. Hon. Members received a significantly amended version of the policy statement at 5 o’clock last night, without having had any prior indication. I return to my point, which the Minister has not answered: why could this document not have been circulated on Tuesday? Why was it left until 5 o’clock on a Wednesday evening, when many hon. Members perhaps were not looking at, or were unable to look at, their emails? The Minister has heard already that my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North has picked his up only this morning. Frankly, if we want to proceed in a co-operative and friendly way in the Committee, this is no way to run a railway.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point, and I assume that most of the time these things come about—if I am not using unparliamentary language—as a result of a cock-up, rather than a conspiracy. For the sake of Hansard, I stress that I am not saying that that was the case here. What I am saying is that it was not terribly helpful that the document turned up at only 5 o’clock last night. I understand that these issues are quite complex. I might add in passing, however, that some of the discussion in this sitting will be about capacity, and if the Minister’s Department did not have the capacity to produce this very important document by Tuesday, that will raise concerns about its capacity to do some of the other things that it needs to do in relation to the Bill.

I am not asking that the document not be looked at. I entirely accept the point made by the hon. Member for North West Cambridgeshire that these things happen, but in the circumstances I think it not unreasonable to ask that hon. Members on both sides of the Committee, who might want to look at some of these issues, should have the opportunity to table amendments in the light of this policy statement. I remind those on the Government Front Bench that clause 1 and schedule 1 deal with most if not all of the meat of the establishment of this new institution, and we should get that right.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will just say one final word on the matter. It is important to note that this is existing material. Most of it is already in the public domain—in the Sainsbury report and the explanatory notes. We did not publish it on Tuesday because we wanted to be able to digest the oral evidence session. There is no conspiracy. We were just trying to be helpful to the Committee by ensuring that there was a fuller note on the matter.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I entirely accept the Minister’s explanation. It is unfortunate that we are in this situation, but I am asking whether, under the circumstances, we will be able to move amendments to clause 1 and schedule 1 by manuscript or on a starred basis at the beginning of next week.

--- Later in debate ---
None Portrait The Chair
- Hansard -

The situation is that Members can table amendments if the Committee has not moved on, but if schedule 1 has been taken, they cannot. I call the Minister.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The policy document does not change anything. As I say, most of it was already in the public domain and we were just trying to help the Committee. We are here to debate the clause and schedule relevant to the issue in hand.

None Portrait The Chair
- Hansard -

I will move on to some preliminary announcements. Today we begin line-by-line consideration of the Bill. Members may remove their jackets during Committee meetings. Please ensure that all electronic devices are turned off or switched to silent mode.

The selection list for today’s sittings is available in the room and shows how the selected amendments have been grouped for debate. Grouped amendments are generally on the same or similar issues. The Member who has put their name to the leading amendment in a group will be called first. Other Members will then be free to catch my eye and speak to all or any of the amendments in that group. A Member may speak more than once in a debate. I will work on the assumption that the Minister wishes the Committee to reach a decision on all Government amendments.

Please note that decisions on amendments take place not in the order in which amendments are debated, but in the order in which they appear on the amendment paper. In other words, debate occurs according to the selection list and decisions are taken when we come to the clause that the amendment affects. I hope that explanation is helpful. I will use my discretion to decide whether to allow a separate stand part debate on individual clauses and schedules following the debates on the relevant amendments. If any Member wishes to make a declaration of interest, he or she may do so at this point.

--- Later in debate ---
Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bailey. I am very pleased to be here this morning to begin line-by-line consideration of this important Bill. I look forward to debating it with all members of the Committee. I particularly want to convey my thanks to Lord Sainsbury and his Independent Panel on Technical Education for the excellent work that they have done on technical education, which we are now taking forward through the post-16 skills plan in the Bill.

I want to pay significant tribute to my predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford (Nick Boles), who has been recovering from a serious illness. It was good to see him in the House recently. I want to thank everyone who has taken time to serve on the Committee, and I thank you, Mr Bailey, and Ms Dorries for serving as chairpersons. I thank those who gave oral evidence on Tuesday this week and those who have already submitted written evidence; their expert contribution has got us off to a great start.

Turning to part 1 of the Bill, clause 1 seeks to amend the name of the Institute for Apprenticeships to reflect its wider responsibility for college-based technical education. The Enterprise Act 2016 will establish the Institute for Apprenticeships. The institute is expected to come into operation in April 2017 with apprenticeship functions. The clause, together with schedule 1, will extend the institute’s remit to reflect the Government’s vision for the skills system set out in the post-16 plan.

The reforms will result in technical education qualifications that are designed around employers’ needs. They will support young people and adults to secure sustained employment and will meet the needs of our rapidly changing economy. Measures to extend the institute’s remit are important for a number of reasons. As a country, we face a pressing need for more highly skilled people, yet the current system presents a bewildering array of overlapping qualifications with similar aims. We cannot continue to let so many of our young people work their way through a succession of low-level, low-value qualifications that lead at best to low-skilled, low-paid employment.

The Bill will give the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education responsibility for approving high-quality technical qualifications that develop the skills, knowledge and behaviours required by employers for skilled employment. Apprenticeships and college-based technical education courses will be based on a common set of employer-developed standards. This will ensure consistency between the two methods of obtaining a technical education.

Securing a step change in technical education is vital for the productivity of this country. By 2020—we are open and honest about this—the UK is set to fall to 28th out of 33 OECD countries in terms of developing intermediate skills. The size of the post-secondary technical sector in England is extremely small by international standards. That affects our productivity, where we lag behind competitors such as Germany and France by as much as 36%. Unless we take action, we will be left further behind.

A high-quality skills system needs to be distinct from the academic option. Academic qualifications such as A-levels are clearly understood, yet most young people do not go to university. Evidence shows that technical qualifications have long been regarded as inferior to academic qualifications. Reforming the system so that it provides a clear line of sight to the world of work will ensure that technical education in this country is valued as equally as the academic option.

The reformed technical education system will be built around a clear framework of skilled occupations. Occupational maps will be used to identify the occupations that are suitable for technical education, grouping together those with similar requirements, designing the system around clearly identifiable occupations, and bringing together employers to identify the skills and knowledge needed for those occupations. They will ensure that the new system genuinely meets the needs of individuals, employers and the economy.

It is important that a single organisation is responsible for working with employers and is the custodian of employer-led standards. Giving the institute responsibility at the heart of these reforms will ensure that all technical education provision is closely aligned and of the same high quality. We will ensure that the institute has the skills and capacity to be responsible for technical education when its remit is extended in April 2018. It is right that the institute’s name is changed to reflect the wider scope of its responsibilities.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I associate myself with the Minister’s kind words about his predecessor, the hon. Member for Grantham and Stamford. It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bailey, and that of Ms Dorries. I appreciate that this is quite a technical and detailed Bill, so we will depend upon the skills of the Clerks and hopefully timely policy submissions from the Government to wade our way through it.

The Minister rightly spoke about the broad need for the institute. He talked frankly about the situation in terms of technical skills, which was alluded to recently by the noble Baroness Wolf. It is absolutely right that we have the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education—I do not know whether we are going to have to state that in full all the way through, or perhaps we can use the acronym; I assume the “E” will not be silent. I shall not detain the Committee with the story of why one Government had to change the title of a higher education and lifelong learning department; Members can think about that acronym.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

On a point of order, Mr Bailey. To help the Committee, IFATE is a perfectly acceptable description of the institute during the debate.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Great. I shall use it with relish.

We are very much in favour of the establishment of IFATE. We were very much in favour of the establishment of the Institute for Apprenticeships—so much so, in fact, that we anticipated the Government in tabling a clause in which, with our limited capacity as opposed to the civil service’s, we tried to spell out what that institute should do. I make that point to issue a caution to the Minister. He is still relatively new to his post, but not to this field; he has a distinguished record in championing apprenticeships, both in person and in policy. I am entirely confident that the principle of everything he has said today is very close to his heart—it is not always close to every Minister’s heart, but I think it is in his case—and that he will do his best to take that through.

We did not oppose the Bill’s Second Reading, not simply because of the Minister’s personal qualities but also because we believe there is a great deal of good in the Bill. However, the devil is in the detail, and the detail that causes us significant concern, and to which my hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State referred on Second Reading, is the fact that we come to the Bill and to this new institution with a great deal of rather confused and not very comforting baggage.

I remind the Committee that when the Enterprise Bill was originally going through the House of Lords, where it started, there was no concept of an Institute for Apprenticeships at all. If Members consult the Hansard report of the House of Lords debates, they will see that there was much discussion on the Government Front Bench as to how the whole issue of standards could be developed. At one stage, a Government spokesperson suggested—whether accurately or otherwise I do not know—that some of it might be the province of trading standards officers. I think most Members here who know the way in which local government has had its trading standards officers cut back in recent years would agree that that is probably an over-optimistic assessment.

In due course the Government decided that they needed to set up an arm’s length body, which is why, at a relatively late stage during the Commons debate on the Enterprise Bill—I think it was on Report; I might be wrong—the then Minister, the right hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry), tabled an amendment to that effect, which we then debated in Committee. As I said, the Government on that occasion had not got their act together to put a clause down establishing it in the Bill, so we put one down and we discussed it.

I know that no Government like to take anybody else’s idea, but we were rather disappointed that, when the Bill eventually came out, it was a fairly standard boilerplate structure, if I can put it that way, for setting up any institution of this sort. As we know, this is an innovation that potentially takes quite a lot of working responsibilities away from the Department for Education and the Skills Funding Agency. I think we are now back in the sort of territory that we were in during the Committee stage of the Higher Education and Research Bill. The Minister I faced then was the Minister for Universities, Science, Research and Innovation, but we had exactly the same conversations in that Committee about the appropriateness of a Bill that established the office for students but did not mandate students to go on to that body. I feel a sense of déjà vu, because we are in exactly the same place with this Bill. We will return to the detail of that amendment in due course, but I mention it now only to illustrate the lack of connectivity that there seems to have been, and the relatively late stage at which guidelines for the Institute for Apprenticeships have been produced.

Hon. Members might also remember that the skills plan was originally intended to be in the Government’s academies mark 2 Bill. It disappeared from that Bill at a relatively late stage, when the Government realised that that Bill would be too hot to handle with their Back Benchers. We then had the rather strange situation, again at the very last minute, in which a Government statement about introducing the Bill and laying out its provisions had a little bit tucked in the middle saying, “Oh, by the way, we’ve decided we don’t have to go ahead with the academies issue.” I am not here to talk about academies, but I mention that example because it is illustrative. The hon. Member for North West Cambridgeshire spoke earlier about things that go wrong in Government. It is illustrative of the fact that the Government felt, at a relatively late stage—largely because of their embarrassment over that Bill, some observers believe—that this set of changes, which we welcome, should have separate legislation.

Whatever the reasons for that, we welcome it now, although I will gently say that it would have been better to have been able to discuss some of this in more detail, and possibly to have the Institute for Apprenticeships itself incorporated in the Higher Education and Research Bill. During the passage of that Bill, as the Government Whip will well remember, the Minister for Universities and Research spoke at length about the importance of higher level skills and everything that went with that, so it seems rather bizarre to some of us that this did not go into that Bill in the first place. We will not dwell on that.

What we want and need to dwell on are the issues relating to capacity. Capacity and time in terms of establishment have plagued the Government ever since discussions about the skills plan and the apprenticeship levy started. Sector skills council after sector skills council, employer bodies and providers have all had queasiness about the apprenticeship levy. We, too, support the levy, but we share some of the severe concerns about its implementation. A long list of organisations, including the Confederation of British Industry and the Federation of Small Businesses, have expressed and continue to feel concern about timing and capacity.

--- Later in debate ---
Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Thank you, Mr Bailey. I was aware that I was straying from the subject. As I said, I taught in further education myself. I have taught a small number of day-release students as well, mainly A-levels in economics, politics and statistics. My experience was not very long—three years or so—but it was a great experience that has coloured my politics ever since. I know the difficulties of training young people.

Another problem that we have had is that, because of the reduction in employer size, there are fewer employees, and it is harder for a small employer to sustain an apprentice without a proper levy system with heavy state subsidy. I think that the levy system is exactly right; I would like it to be more extensive, so that we can give apprentices secure employment with reasonable pay, while they are working and studying. Apprenticeships across the board need to be properly sustained financially and a levy system is the way forward. We are moving in that direction.

I have come across another problem. Small garages, for example, might take on an apprentice as a car mechanic, who might stay there for three years, but then that small garage might suddenly find that its apprentice has been poached by a big garage that does insurance work, which would be very lucrative and much more highly paid. The small garage loses out because it has put a lot of work and finance into training somebody who has been lost to a bigger employer. We ought to be training more people and giving more security to small employers to ensure that they can sustain an apprentice with similar and appropriate pay for a longer period.

There is a lot for the institute to address. I welcome the fact that we are moving in the right direction, but we must ensure that apprenticeships are high quality and secure, not just because our young people should have the right to good training, education and skills, but because our country and its economy needs those people to do well.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I could listen to the hon. Member for Luton North for a long time on this subject, because he speaks with a lot of wisdom. I have been to the north-east of England to see young people on five-year apprenticeships in companies, doing exactly the things that he talks about.

I will just say that the public and private sectors will be following the same standards. We have exactly the same standards on training and quality, and we are introducing a public sector target from April 2017 in all areas to increase the number of apprenticeships in the public sector: 30,000 by 2020.

I will respond to the points made by the hon. Member for Blackpool South. He is kind about me and it is good to be opposing someone who also cares passionately. I very much enjoyed the visit to Blackpool and the Fylde College. What it is doing is extraordinary, not just for students but for the long-term unemployed.

I will comment on a few things, given that we are about to discuss amendments. The hon. Gentleman said that the levy was an administrative challenge for the IFA. It is important that it has only an advisory role on funding caps. The implementation of the levy is for the Department and the Skills Funding Agency.

The hon. Gentleman talked about the apprenticeship target and how difficult it was. It is worth remembering that there have been 624,000 apprentice starts since May 2015. We have 899,400 apprenticeship participations in the 2015-16 year. That is the highest number on record. Of course, it is a challenge to reach a 3 million target, but we are on the way.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The Minister is right to point to progress so far and I do not want to disparage that. He reminds us that implementation is for the Department and the Skills Funding Agency. I am well aware, of course, that David Hill, who is an extremely talented and assiduous civil servant, has been seconded to do precisely that as director of apprenticeships. I was puzzled, however, that the Minister made no reference to the Apprenticeship Delivery Board. I will not go into whether it will have tsars or not; that is for others to decide and the Minister to ponder.

When that board was announced, it was advertised as being a key part of the process of encouraging and driving up the numbers. It was not simply to be a bully pulpit, but it was to have a very direct and active role. Yet since the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi) stood down from that post, we seem to have heard very little out of the board. What is its role?

--- Later in debate ---
Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am duly rebuked, Mr Bailey.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I reassure the hon. Gentleman that the Apprenticeship Delivery Board is in full flow. I meet it and its chairman regularly. It goes up and down the country and works with businesses to encourage them to employ apprentices. Much of our success has been because of that board’s incredible work.

On frameworks and standards, the hon. Gentleman will know that 25% of frameworks will be gone by the end of this year. The 400 standards support around 340,000 apprenticeships. We hope by the end of the Parliament to have moved entirely from frameworks to standards. That is our target. As he knows, the standards will be determined by occupational maps based on labour market evidence and information about employer demand. We do not want to set an upper limit, because we need flexibility to respond to the economy. It will be up to the IFATE to plan the timescales for the review of those standards.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Will the Minister give way?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I want to get to the amendments, and no doubt the hon. Gentleman will bring some of these things up again at some point, so will he allow me to answer the questions?

The hon. Gentleman asks us to sign a blank cheque on IFA capacity. We are consulting on the Secretary of State’s strategic guidance letter to the IFA. The IFA’s shadow board will publish a draft operational plan. The hon. Gentleman is right that Peter Lauener, the shadow chief executive, is excellent. He has been working with Antony Jenkins, who is the shadow chair. The shadow IFA is working hard to get the institute’s operational plan up and running by April 2017, and that plan will be published soon. Progress is being made, and the institute will be set up in April 2017.

As the hon. Gentleman knows, the institute’s board and chair are being appointed. There are 60 core staff. The IFA will draw on many more people through engagement with employer panels, experts and more than 1,000 employees, so the IFA does have the necessary capacity. We are doing this carefully. The technical education bit will start a year later; the first course on the new route will start in 2019. We are doing everything that he wants. The institute has the necessary capacity, and we have the right people and board to run it.

On occupations not included in the 15 routes, if the hon. Gentleman remembers, the principal of his college said in the evidence session that it was possible to do different things, such as sports, through the academic route and applied general qualifications. We are not closing the door on those things, but 15 is regarded as the right number. We have analysed the labour market, and I think that it is right to have those 15 routes, which are, in essence, what our economy needs. On that basis, I believe that the expanded institute is the right body to be at the heart of the reforms—we are implementing the Sainsbury reforms—and the Government are committed to ensuring that the institute plays that role. Clause 1 should therefore stand part of the Bill.

Tracy Brabin Portrait Tracy Brabin (Batley and Spen) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

It has been interesting to listen to the Minister. I have one quick question. How will the nearly 900,000 apprentices currently on courses be channelled into those routes? If they are in retail, for which a route does not currently exist, what will happen to their course?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Current apprentices in the existing frameworks will not be affected. This will only be for new apprentices. Standards are being brought through, but people in the existing frameworks will not be affected by the changes.

Technical and Further Education Bill (Fourth sitting)

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

Read Full debate
Committee Debate: 4th sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 24th November 2016

(7 years, 4 months ago)

Public Bill Committees
Technical and Further Education Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 24 November 2016 - (24 Nov 2016)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair again this afternoon, Ms Dorries. I strongly support the amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool South and the case he made for them. I am also sympathetic to what the hon. Member for North Swindon said.

I have some knowledge of these issues. In general, it is so important for all citizens to have a sense of worth, and having some form of education or having a job gives us that. Without that sense of worth, we can become not only alienated and miserable, but difficult people in society. All sorts of problems arise when people do not have a proper role in society. Even if one has disabilities, to be able to have a real role among one’s fellow human beings is so important.

I particularly wish to discuss adults with moderate learning difficulties. Some 15 years ago or so, a friend invited me to speak to a class of young adults with moderate learning difficulties at my local college. I spoke fairly briefly about politics and about what I did and then they asked questions. I have to say that I could not answer the first two questions, which were very perceptive and intelligent. One was about benefits—they were very conscious about benefits and the rules governing them. I was not up to speed on that, so I was in difficulty there. The young man’s second question was why Tony Blair had abandoned socialism. I have to say that on both counts I was completely floored. I had to say that I could not speak for the Prime Minister, but that I had not abandoned socialism.

That experience showed me that these young adults were not daft. They had things to say and they had an understanding of the world. With the right courses and, if possible, the right apprenticeships, they could find some employment at some point. For example, recently, in one of our supermarkets, the young man who collects the trolleys and pushes them to the collection points for customers has moderate learning difficulties, but he has a job; he is a character; everyone knows him and he is happy. We ought to organise the world so that such things can happen.

Amendments such as the one tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool South ought to be on the face of every Bill relating to education, training and employment, so that it becomes deeply embedded in our culture. Some employers and teachers, although they would not necessarily discriminate wittingly, might do so unwittingly without such things in their mind. They need to be aware that they must be fair and provide equal opportunities. Some employers are notorious for discriminating against women. That is changing, but we still have some way to go to ensure that women have equal shares with men. We do not have equal pay yet.

We have also talked about minority ethnic communities. Again, it is particularly those who are unemployed and live in poorer areas who sometimes get into difficulty or trouble. If they had jobs, it might be different. There was a time in my own town when anybody could literally knock on the door at Vauxhall and get a job. It might not be a very skilled job, but they could get one.

On the difficulties on the streets, an interesting statistic featured in The Guardian some years ago: when unemployment rose to 3 million in the early 1980s, street disorder and street crime took off like a rocket. It is not surprising. All those young men whose energy would have been absorbed putting wheels on cars or doing whatever they would have been doing were on the streets, with nothing better to do than cause trouble. I have always been a passionate believer in organising society to ensure full employment. Some years ago, I was chair of a Back-Bench group with outside members called the Full Employment Forum, started by the renowned Bryan Gould, one of the leading Labour politicians, who is still a friend.

On looked-after children, I said in an intervention that it is important for them to be given extra advantage, because they have had disadvantages in early life. Perhaps their education has been disrupted by their being absent from school, moving house or being generally disturbed and unhappy in education, but they might have abilities way beyond the level of education that they received, so it is important that they are given an extra boost through an apprenticeship or a college education. Providing them with security, hope for the future and a stable and predictable environment in life is important to giving them a sense of optimism and increase their self-worth.

I think these two amendments should, in one form or another, be made. I hope that at some point—maybe today, or maybe not—such amendments can be incorporated into the Bill in its final form. I am happy to support them, and I congratulate my hon. Friend on moving them.

Robert Halfon Portrait The Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills (Robert Halfon)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Dorries. I will respond to some of the issues raised. The hon. Member for Batley and Spen talked about careers guidance in schools, and I agree with her. The first ever speech that I made in the House of Common was about the problem of careers guidance in schools not encouraging people to do technical education or apprenticeships. We must consider the issue holistically, from primary school all the way through. Although it is not part of the Bill, I am considering from the start how we deal with the issue.

That said, we are investing £90 million in careers. The Careers & Enterprise Company has 1,190 enterprise advisers and a £5 million careers and enterprise fund. I have seen myself how they go into schools to boost provision on technical education and apprenticeships, to encourage work experience and to build links between businesses and schools. There is also a separate £12 million mentoring fund, which I am very keen on.

--- Later in debate ---
Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move amendment 11, in schedule 1, page 22, line 14, at end insert

“following consultation with institutions, students and employers, and their representatives”.

This amendment would ensure that the Government must consult with institutions, students and employers, and their representatives before making changes to the “occupational categories” or “routes”.

The amendment would ensure that the Government consult with institutions, students, employers and their representatives before making changes to the occupational categories or routes. You were not with us this morning, Ms Dorries, but we had quite a detailed discussion around occupational categories and routes, so I will try not to repeat the arguments that we had—people can read them in Hansard.

If there are concerns and controversies about the different routes—for instance, about whether the service sector is adequately represented in the existing routes—that gives even more force to the argument that there should be as broad a consultative and collaborative process as possible. It should not hold up the processes; I am conscious that consultations can go on and on endlessly.

As it stands, the Bill enables the Secretary of State to propose categories for those routes without any further input. It simply requires the Secretary of State to notify the IFA of any changes. I say to the Minister what I said to his counterpart on the Higher Education and Research Bill: although I genuinely have every confidence in his wish to consult, and, for that matter, in the Secretary of State’s wish to consult, we are setting down legislation that will last for a significant number of years, so we have to be careful that we do not hook everything on to the whim of a Secretary of State. After all—we made this argument about the Higher Education and Research Bill—if a new institution is to succeed, it has to have the active and enthusiastic participation of as many of the people who are affected by it as possible. A consultation with institutions, students, employers and their representatives is a necessary part of the process.

A further point is that there is a balance to be struck —the Minister will be well aware of this, because it is a continuing and intensifying debate—between the bespoke skills that are needed for immediate jobs and the enabling skills for more generic future employment. There will always be a tension between the needs of an employer and the needs of an employee—they might be a student or an apprentice—in whichever skills area. After all, in the 21st century we will not all have, as my father was promised before the second world war, a job for life.

We will probably see young people who—I am sure we have all used this phrase, one way or another—do five careers during their lifetime, two of which have not yet been thought of. It is therefore even more important that we have that broad process of ongoing consultation about how generic, as opposed to bespoke, skills should be, so that not only do we get the skills that we need for the future, but young people and adults wanting to return to work or start a new career get the skills that they need.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I welcome the opportunity to debate the amendment, and understand why Opposition Members support it. It is important to understand the purpose of occupational categories, which we refer to as routes in the technical education reforms we are putting in place, and how they relate to the overall system we are developing. The routes are the main ways that learners will find their way around the new system. They provide clear and accurate signposts to the new qualifications.

Lord Sainsbury’s report proposed a system that has

“employer-designed standards...at its heart”,

which is what we have created. He urged that there be a common framework of standards, covering both apprenticeships and college-based provision. Those standards are the basis of the new technical education system we have created. In essence, the standards are the knowledge, skills and behaviours required to perform the occupation.

Presentationally, it does not help to have hundreds of different standards, completely distinct from one another. It is better to group them together to make it easier for people to understand how to navigate through the system. The routes give us a mechanism to do that. I shall not go through it again, but on Second Reading I set out how, if someone went down the engineering route, that would be reflected if they then chose a different branch of engineering.

Earlier, we discussed best practice overseas—I think the hon. Member for Luton North mentioned it—and our system does reflect international best practice. It was reviewed with employers, academics and professional bodies as the Sainsbury panel developed its proposals. The routes are each based on evidence-based occupational maps, on which we have to consult widely. The institute will take on board a wide range of views when developing the occupational mapping, which will then feed into the shape of the routes. It will have to help to ensure that the routes are aligned with the needs of the economy and the industrial strategy, so that young people and adults can make the choices they need to make when they move into skilled technical occupations.

Route panels—panels of professionals—and employers have been consulted to ensure that the institute gets it right, so it is not necessary to consult on the routes separately. Nevertheless, there will of course be an ongoing need to keep the route structure under review—it is flexible—and to continue to listen to the feedback from stakeholders. In view of that, I hope that the hon. Gentleman will feel reassured enough to withdraw the amendment.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for that explanation, which is helpful. I hear what he says, but I am still not entirely reassured. I understand the process; indeed, I understand the process laid out by Lord Sainsbury in the skills plan. The point I was trying to make, and to which I referred this morning when I discussed the responses from the Association of Employment and Learning Providers and various others, is that there remains considerable unease—I will put it no more strongly than that—about whether the routes cover a large enough area of the skills or sectors we will need for the future. That is separate from the issue I raised about enabling skills.

I am not rubbishing the existing routes at all, but the matter needs to be thought about and watched very carefully. I can understand what the Minister is saying about not having everything chopped into silos, but I would not want him to think that certain areas, particularly the service sector, can be ignored just because he has been told that this is the route to follow. Nevertheless, it was a probing amendment. I was interested in what the Minister had to say, and we can always return to the matter on Report if we are not happy. On that basis, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(David Evennett.)

Technical and Further Education Bill (Fifth sitting)

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

Read Full debate
Committee Debate: 5th sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 29th November 2016

(7 years, 4 months ago)

Public Bill Committees
Technical and Further Education Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 29 November 2016 - (29 Nov 2016)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Dorries. I express our thanks for the latitude given with regard to the amendments tabled on Friday, which is very welcome.

The commonality in these amendments is that they are designed to ensure that those who are involved in setting the standards for routes in technical and further education have relevant experience and that, where possible, students are included in the process. Amendment 13 would require the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education to publish information about its reasons for convening or choosing not to convene a group of persons to prepare a standard for an occupation.

The skills plan consistently talks about the institute being employer-led, with college-based learning being decided by employer groups. That is precisely why further education colleges, other training providers and learners are an essential component of the roll-out and delivery of standards and assessments. I cannot emphasise enough how essential it is for the groups formed to set standards for the routes in technical and further education to have wide-ranging representation, including all key components of apprenticeship creation and delivery. The Minister will no doubt have heard several times—if he has not, I am sure he will in future—the term “co-creation” or “co-production”, which has come from many of the people in those groups.

Our vision for apprenticeships, which I hope the Government share, requires input from further education providers and colleges, and especially universities, given the crucial role of higher skills and degree apprenticeships. I will not labour the point that I made previously about how important it is, particularly in the context of higher skills and degree apprenticeships, that there is good read-across and co-operation between the office for students and the new institute, as well as the relevant trade unions, which have key experience, to ensure a broad outlook on new frameworks and accreditations. We believe that including apprentices and learners in that process is vital.

A representative of the National Society of Apprentices, which Members will know is associated with the National Union of Students, was scheduled to give evidence to the Committee last Tuesday, but unfortunately she was unable to attend because of illness. However, the National Society of Apprentices has said:

“At the moment, apprentices have no real opportunities to improve their education. Although most students going through the ‘traditional’ education system at college or university are able to give feedback through their class representative system, similar structures do not exist for apprentices.”

There is also the Industry Apprentice Council—I referred to it in a previous sitting—which is strongly supported by EAL and the Science, Engineering, Manufacturing and Technologies Alliance. Of course, there are other groups, such as the valuable group that Lindsay McCurdy and her colleagues convene, particularly around Apprenticeship Week, which involves a large number of different sorts of apprentices. Apprentices should be able to influence the way in which their training is developed and carried out. After all, they know from the frontline what has been helpful and successful for them and what has not. I hope that the Minister, who has been very passionate in his support of both apprenticeships and apprentices, appreciates that point.

It is also quite unclear what role there will be in the institute for workforce representatives and trade unions. I think it is appropriate to talk about that on a day when the Government, and particularly the Prime Minister, have again signalled their strong interest in making sure that, in some shape or form—the details will obviously have to be hammered out—there should be more workforce representatives involved in companies.

The TUC has said that it is crucial that

“Trade unions must be given a central role in setting and monitoring quality standards”

for technical education. After all, that is common practice in leading European economies with high-quality skill systems in place. Those systems are largely based on a social partnership model, which involves employers and unions agreeing standards and best practice at both national and sectoral level. Social partnerships have been key to the success of high-quality vocational routes in other countries, so I suggest that we would do well to take that lesson into account for our reforms of technical education. With particular regard to amendment 12, we might make a start in considering the composition of the groups formed to set standards for the routes. That is why I think it is important to give some form of direction to the new institute and its board of directors on that matter.

All the issues involved in getting the right sort of broad-based input are extremely important, because we have to get the routes right. We welcome the detailed and thoughtful proposals of the Sainsbury group. The Government are now, after some dithering, taking a new approach to the wilderness that has so far characterised aspects of skills policy, particularly in the technical and vocational areas. However, the devil is in the detail, and a number of stakeholders believe that the skills plan is not without fault. I mentioned in a previous sitting that the Opposition share the concerns of groups such as the Association of Employment and Learning Providers, and various others that we have quoted, about the potentially limited scope of the routes. I also spoke about the crucial role of the service sector, which will potentially provide huge numbers of apprentices with jobs and make sure that they are not left out of the process.

The Sainsbury review was clear that only jobs with technical aspects will be included within the 15 routes. I do not know whether the Minister was present at the recent Association of Colleges conference, as I was—I was not actually there when Lord Sainsbury spoke, but I read his remarks. I think there was some concern that he was—dismissive is perhaps the wrong word—too light on the importance of a significant number of jobs that are non-technical occupations, which currently lie outside the scope of these routes. I want to make it clear that we are not criticising the initial number of 15, and we are not necessarily arguing for the creation of lots more routes, but we are saying that, as this process develops, it is important that the Government generally, and the new institute in particular, pay attention to those jobs and to that training. We have to consider carefully the impact of workforce development in those sectors.

That brings me to amendment 13, which would

“require the Institute to publish information about its reasons for convening, or choosing not to convene, a group of persons to prepare a standard”.

The amendment’s underlying principle is transparency, because it is important to be able to monitor who is preparing the standards, in order to ensure that those standards will meet all of the requirements. However, it is also important as a signal of confidence to the broad range of stakeholders, who will not necessarily be directly involved in preparing the standards. The setting up of the new institute will be a busy period. With so many organisations involved in the process, transparency is crucial to provide students with the best available standards and to keep the rest of the stakeholders well informed.

I must again raise the vexed issue of capacity: the capacity of employers to put what they need to into the process, but also the capacity of the institute for oversight of quality assessment. We will move on to that when considering another aspect of the Bill. I just observe for the moment that the phraseology used in the guidance to the Green Paper is that there will be other options available, including Ofqual, professional bodies and others, and that some or all of those bodies may charge for doing it—or presumably not charge.

With those variables and parameters, there is inevitably some doubt about capacity, elasticity and the unpredictability of delivery from the new institute, certainly in the first couple of years, because other providers and options might have been taken up in the process of preparing standards. That inevitably raises concerns about whether the numbers for the new institute, as provisionally set out by Peter Lauener and confirmed by the Minister, will be adequate or what process there will be for boosting them if this somewhat variable geometry about who might take up the institute, as opposed to Ofqual and others, comes to pass.

Those are important issues and, again, a number of different agencies have commented on them. I draw the Minister’s attention to the written evidence submitted by the Association of Employment and Learning Providers, which states:

“Through its proposed funding mechanisms, the Government is encouraging employers and providers to move from Apprenticeship frameworks to standards by reducing the prices payable for frameworks, even though many standards are not yet in place. This makes it very difficult for providers to judge and therefore plan whether future provision will be viable. As has been reported in the sector press, apprentices have also started on Apprenticeships under a new standard without an EPA being in place, which means they have no means to complete it.”

That is the AELP’s view. I am not necessarily saying that I share it; I am just saying that this is one of the issues out there. It continues:

“The situation is exacerbated by the Government’s insistence that employers can negotiate with providers on the price of training and assessment.”

I would not necessarily agree with the AELP on that point—not in every detail—but the essence of what it says is this:

“Reform proposals may not currently be giving sufficient weight to the input of stakeholders and the concerns of and about learners, which must be rectified by the inclusion of stakeholder representatives on the Board of the Institute. We are therefore supportive in principle of the amendments to Schedule 1 of the Bill which have been tabled jointly by Gordon Marsden MP and Mike Kane MP.”

The AELP makes the strong point that the number of standards being developed, and the investment in time and resource required to develop them, could be leading to

“‘employer fatigue’ and a drop in employer engagement.”

We have also had written evidence from the Centre for Vocational Education Research. I know that the Government Whip is deeply interested in the bona fides of people who submit evidence to Committees.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

We had a lively exchange on the issue when the Higher Education and Research Bill was in Committee. For the sake of the Whip, and indeed the whole Committee, let me explain that this evidence was prepared by the Centre for Vocational Education Research, whose people are stuffed full of qualifications from the London School of Economics. Even better—we cannot get much better than this—the Centre for Vocational Education Research is funded by the Department for Education and was launched in 2015. It states in its written evidence:

“An employer-led body as proposed by the Bill, in particular in the more competitive labour market of the UK, which does not engage with all relevant stakeholders, will not be able to achieve similar outcomes”

as they do in

“coordinated market economies…in Scandinavian and Western European countries”.

It states that the institute needs to

“bring together all relevant actors beyond the Department for Education and employers.”

It references unions,

“because of their role in life-long learning in the workplace”.

It also states:

“Associations of colleges and learning providers need a clear role in the Institute, and student associations and associations concerned with the interests of particular groups”—

I will not dwell on this now, Ms Dorries, because this will come up with one of our later amendments—

“also need to be involved from the start.”

It suggests that:

“Careers advice and…employment services…essential to balance short and long-term supply and demand in the labour market, need to be similarly engaged.”

That is the view of the Centre for Vocational Education Research, which touches on the three amendments.

I again underline a point made in the evidence submitted by the TUC, which specifically referred to the important role of the union learning fund. This year is the 10th anniversary of the official establishment of the union learning fund. The TUC commissioned an evaluation by academics at Leeds University Business School and the University of Exeter, based on surveys of employees engaged in training through the ULF and their employers. I will refer to two or three of the key findings. Over two thirds of learners with no previous qualification attained their first qualification as a result of engaging in union-led training. Four in five employees said that they had developed skills that they could transfer to a new job. And two in three said that those made them more effective in their current job.

Equally importantly, half of the employers said that

“their staff were more committed as a result of unions facilitating training and development opportunities.”

Separate analysis showed:

“Union-led training delivers an estimated net contribution to the economy of more than £1.4 billion as a result of a boost to jobs, wages and productivity.”

Those are also cogent points for broadening representation.

Finally, amendment 28 asked for the institute to show

“due regard for broad representation and diversity amongst the group of persons preparing each standard, including—

(a) gender and

(b) the representation of both large and small employers.”

For both your information, Ms Dorries, and the information of the Minister, this is a probing amendment, so we did not intend to include a list of all the potential groups that might be included; that would not have been appropriate at this stage. The reasons why we have highlighted those two are fairly obvious, I hope. First, the gender issue has already bulked large in our conversations in Committee. Secondly, because of the key role of large and, in particular, small employers—the Minister will know about the discussions on the delivery of the apprenticeship levy—it is crucial that those groups are involved.

The Minister sang the praises of the Apprenticeship Delivery Board the other day. It may be a fine body, but it was actually made up of members drawn from a relatively narrow section of business and, incidentally, had only one woman among its number. There was no role for others, such as further education providers, universities, trade unions and local authorities. There has been some progress with the number of women on the ADB—it has increased to three—but it is important that those lessons are taken on to a broad representation and diversity being found among the group of persons preparing each standard.

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Robert Halfon Portrait The Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills (Robert Halfon)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Blackpool South for tabling the amendment, and to him and the hon. Member for Luton North for what they have just said. I fully understand the concerns regarding the group of persons convened by the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education to develop the standards, and I agree that the reforms to technical education should be informed by a balanced and diverse range of industry professionals. I also share the view that the institute should have a clear and transparent rationale for bringing together groups of persons to develop the standards.

I wish to comment on some of the issues raised by the hon. Member for Blackpool South. On apprentices and education, he will know that, as part of the reforms we have introduced, apprentices have not only to do the full-time, on-the-job training that is their apprenticeship, but to spend a significant amount of time at an educational institution, whether a private provider or an FE college. That offers them the education they need while they are earning.

Apprentices are able to give feedback to the employer and the provider. At the beginning of the apprenticeship, all parties have to sign a commitment setting out the roles and responsibilities, which include the giving and receiving of feedback. The apprentice is also able to give feedback during the review of the standard and assessment plans, and we can include that in terms of the guidance note from the Secretary of State.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

That is very encouraging. I know that that feedback process takes place; as I say, it has been welcomed by the various groups. I do not want to make things over-bureaucratic, but is there going to be a formal, or at least easily understandable, mechanism whereby apprentices can feed in—either as a group or as individuals?

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am sorry, Ms Dorries. If the Minister is not in a position to say anything more on that today, I would welcome a note to the Committee at some point.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will provide one, but I am always against very formulaic structures; things need to be flexible. The fact is that we give the opportunity for the apprentice to feed back at every step of the way, and the agreement has to be signed by the employer and the apprentice when the latter starts.

On the representation of small businesses, the hon. Gentleman will know that the trailblazer groups—there are roughly 10 employer organisations altogether—have to have a minimum of two businesses with fewer than 50 employers. We envisage that the employer panels will be the same. I am happy to reflect on that being included in the remit letter for the institute. We are also investing taxpayers’ money in huge incentives to encourage small businesses to hire apprentices and to encourage providers to take people on. We are doing everything possible to use taxpayer investment to ensure that small businesses hire apprentices and that providers do provide.

I would like as much as possible to be done by FE colleges, and I would be delighted if they took on more apprenticeship training. That is happening slowly, but I think they would be very willing. I have seen it happening in my own constituency of Harlow: whenever there is an issue to do with a company wanting an apprentice, Harlow College will be there, ready to advise the employer on what should be done and to offer training if it is required.

On the wider issue of the technical routes, I disagree with the hon. Gentleman. I shall set out the context of the problems we face. I have been quite open in admitting that we have a huge skills deficit in this country. The OECD said in 2012 that 20% of young people lacked basic skills. By 2020, the UK is set to be 28th out of 33 OECD countries for intermediate and technical skills. We are way behind.

The whole purpose of the reforms and the legislation—this is why Lord Sainsbury has supported them—is to ensure that we have state-of-the-art technical education for young people that transforms our skills deficit. People who do not want to do one of those 15 state-of-the-art routes, for technical and professional education, will have different options through other applied general qualifications and the academic route. The reforms focus on occupations that require the acquisition of a substantial body of technical knowledge and a set of practical skills that are valued by industry and that address employers’ needs and our huge skills deficit. I am glad that the hon. Member for Blackpool South quoted the Centre for Vocational Education Research, which my Whip guarantees is a blue-chip organisation.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Indeed. The centre says:

“We welcome the Report…led by Lord Sainsbury…the subsequent Post-16 Skills Plan”—

by the Government—

“and the measures contained in this Bill. The recommendations are consistent with our findings”.

It continues, and this is the whole point of the argument:

“Part of the problem is undoubtedly the confusing array of options, with uncertain pathways, that are on offer for young people after age 16. There must be a system that students, teachers, parents and employers…understand. Otherwise it is difficult for young people to be matched up with courses that are suitable for them and for employers to understand what qualifications actually mean.”

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I understand the Minister’s points, and I tried to make it clear that I am not asking for a huge response—we do not want to end up like the wax in a lava lamp, which starts off as a great base and goes up to the top before, after some time, becoming big again. I understand the need not to have duplication, but the AELP and others made a particular point about the service sector. Is the Minister not concerned that, if the Government are not careful, they will be, by excluding a large part of the service sector, in danger of sending out a binary message that certain sorts of occupations are valued and others are not?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

No, because this is about technical and professional education. There are 15 routes, and people have many other ways of doing the vital training for the other areas that the hon. Gentleman mentions. People can do an individual apprenticeship, they can do part of the Government’s training scheme or they can do work experience. This is about addressing our skills deficit and, similar to what happens in other countries, ensuring that we have the technical education that our country needs.

On capacity, the institute will ensure that arrangements are in place for evaluating assessments. There are different options for employers and others to develop the standards. We will discuss the assessments later, but I will set out the current figures on apprenticeship assessment. On standards, some 61% of all apprentice starts have an end-point assessment organisation available to them, whether or not they are close to needing an end-point assessment. That figure rises to 94% for all apprentice starts, including those who are expected to reach the gateway—the end of their apprenticeship—within the next 12 months, where an organisation is close to being put on the register. We are considering a number of options and we will discuss them later, but the situation is not as bleak as has been said in respect of the assessment organisations and what is being planned and done.

The hon. Gentleman addressed the levy and the autumn statement, and I am pleased to say that we will still have £2.5 billion available for the levy, regardless of the announcements in the autumn statement. The Government are determined to create an apprenticeship nation, and by 2020 the spending will have doubled to £2.5 billion. We have discussed the providers, but I am happy to reflect on action that could be taken to ensure that SMEs are offering training that is relevant to their apprentices. I am pleased by the response from the providers so far.

The amendment raises other issues of concern. We need to learn from previous models, but there is a risk that requiring specific representation on the panels may not always be appropriate and may result in standards that do not have labour market currency. The purpose of the reform is quality, not quantity. If the panels try to do too much to please too many different groups, ultimately they might not support young people and adults in getting high-quality technical education to progress into skilled employment. The problem is that there is a proliferation of qualifications.

I agree that the groups should be as representative as possible, however. The Sainsbury report makes it clear that the institute will be best placed to ensure that the right people are brought together to develop the standards. Institute staff with expertise in specific occupational areas will know which employers and other stakeholders are suitable to develop standards that are representative of the occupations within the specific routes. The institute is independent. It should be for the institute to manage the composition of groups, and we should not constrain that process.

As for the approval of the groups that are not convened, it is for the groups to come together to put proposals to the institute. That has been the hallmark of the employer-led reforms, which, again, have been based on best practice in other countries. The groups should be flexible enough to reflect the requirements of specific occupations. In some occupations, such as blacksmithing, there are few large employers, while there may be other occupations in which there are no smaller employers or in which there is a bias towards a particular gender. On that point, I remind the Committee that 53% of apprentices are women, which shows that we are making significant progress, although of course we need to do a lot more to get women into STEM—science, technology, engineering and maths—and other key areas.

There are other ways in which views can be taken into account through the institute’s wider structure. Crucially, each route will have its own panel making decisions about the provision within that route. Standards will also be subject to peer review, the purpose of which is to ensure that the proposals meet wider needs. The institute’s board is open to applicants with a wide variety of interests. We hope to announce the composition of the board—genuinely—in the very near future. I firmly believe that once that announcement has been made, the hon. Member for Blackpool South will agree that there is important representation.

Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Does the Minister agree that it is important to appoint the right person as chair of the board of the institute? We have had big, forceful characters in the field of public education, and sometimes they get it right and sometimes they get it wrong, but choosing the right person with the right skills and the right character to lead is crucial.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. The board and the chairman are both incredibly important. The person has to have incredible knowledge of the field, as well as the charisma, connections and ability to drive the institute forward so that it can transform technical education in the way that we hope it will.

The Secretary of State will provide advice to the institute once a year on how it should carry out its functions, and the institute will have to have regard to that advice. As I have often mentioned, we will consult on the draft of the first guidance letter and provide advice on who the group of persons should be. We plan to encourage the institute to ensure that others with relevant knowledge and experience are included, as well as employers, professional bodies, sector experts, providers and assessment organisations—the more FE representation the better. The institute will need to explain in its annual report how it has taken that advice into account or, if it has not done so, explain why. I hope that that provides reassurance.

On amendment 13, the decisions to convene the panels will be driven by a robust evidence base. If the evidence shows that there is a need for a standard to be developed, the institute will be able to convene a group of persons if the trailblazer group has not already come forward. The need for the standard to be developed will be driven by the relevant occupational map. There will be an occupational map for each category of occupations or route. The maps will be underpinned by analysis of the labour market information and will illustrate how occupations are grouped together according to their shared requirements for skills and knowledge. The occupational maps will therefore provide the evidence base for all the provision within the route.

--- Later in debate ---
Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Absolutely. They will be available on the institute’s website. The institute will publish information so that employers and others know what is required to gain approval to become a trailblazer group. Amendment 13 is therefore unnecessary, because the need for a standard in the absence of a trailblazer group should be the only trigger for the institute to convene a panel. Where the institute convenes a group to develop a standard, its approval of that group is implicit.

In light of that information, I hope that hon. Members agree with this approach. Designing the system around clearly identifiable occupations, and bringing together employers and others to identify the skills, knowledge and behaviours needed for those occupations, will ensure the new system genuinely meets the needs of employers and technical education. I hope the hon. Member will feel reassured enough to withdraw the amendment.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am very grateful to the Minister for going into detail and for the thoughtful and measured way in which he responded on the three amendments. It is a very techie but extraordinarily important area to get right. The intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North about the chair was particularly apt in that respect, and I am glad the Minister recognises those points.

I am interested to hear the Minister say that £2.5 billion will still be made available for England. Presumably, that means there will be less available for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. If I am wrong on that matter, I ask him please to come back to me. It was quite clear in the autumn statement that the figure was £2.8 billion, so I just assumed that it would go down to £2.3 billion. If the Minister assures me that it is £2.5 billion, that is obviously good news for England.

We share a view on the direction of travel with the routes, but I am not as sanguine about what the Minister said about the technical side. We will reflect on that. I am pleased that he has given more detail on the occupational standards and that he has addressed the SME and gender issues. Again, we may have a further discussion at some point about the mechanisms in that respect. On the whole, he has given a positive and reasonable response. We can always come back to these issues on Report, if necessary. On that basis, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move amendment 14, in schedule 1, page 24, line 6, leave out “as it considers appropriate”.

This amendment would require the Institute to publish apprenticeship assessment plans for all standards.

The Minister may want to say the same sorts of things on amendment 14 as he touched on under amendment 13. Nevertheless, I rise to move the amendment because it would require the institute to publish apprenticeship assessment plans for all standards. I hear what the Minister says about numbers and everything else. I shall reflect on that and drill down into the detail. However, recent analysis shows—this, of course, is real-time experience—that there are no approved awarding organisations for over 40% of learner starts on the new apprentice standards. Number crunching on the Government data that were published in October suggests that that applied to 1,790 or 42% of the total number of starts so far on the employer-developed programmes.

I accept, as I am sure will the Minister—it must make him tear his hair out at times—that because moving from frameworks to standards is an iterative process, there will be complications. There will be stats that do not appear to fit, and all the rest of it. I am not criticising the fact that there will be an element of confusion. However, those apprentices on the standards will have to pass end-point assessments for the first time, so those assessments have to be carried out by organisations that have been cleared for the task by Government or the Skills Funding Agency-registered apprentice assessment organisations.

I come back to my opening remarks on the previous group of amendments about the degree of uncertainty that still exists about how this will settle down in terms of what the institute does as opposed to other well established bodies such as Ofqual. Because of that, it is important that we have transparency on who is being cleared and who is doing the clearing.

The Minister may be familiar with the observations of Dr Susan Pember, who stood down as the civil service head of further education and skills investment in February 2013. I am very familiar with Dr Pember. On one famous occasion, when we had challenged the Government on various things, she said that we had been challenging them too much. The Minster’s predecessor, the right hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), said that we were absolutely right and that that was the role of the Opposition. Dr Pember has said:

“It is diabolical to let an apprentice start a programme without explaining not only what the end test will contain, but where it will be, what shape it will take and who will be the organisation—

that is the key point—

“to oversee and manage the process.”

We are told that the Department for Education—the Minister can contradict this if he wishes and it would be very pleasant were he able to do so accurately—is still struggling to recruit enough of those assessment organisations. Indeed, one of its spokespersons said:

“We know there is more work to be done to ensure we have the range and breadth of high quality assessment organisations we need.”

We are also concerned that the slowness with which this process has been taken forward has meant that students have not started on some apprenticeship standards for two years after they were launched. I appreciate that this refers to matters that took place not on the Minister’s watch, but it will colour and inform what people think about what the new institute does and what guidance the new institute is given in this respect by Ministers. The backstory, as it were, is an important one.

FE Week has looked at the latest Skills Funding Agency data, specifically the first standards that were given Government sign-off in 2014. It found that there were no starts at all in that academic year, or in 2015, while low numbers of students were recorded in several others. There may be an element here of what I described in a previous sitting as the very slow process of taking these trailblazers though. On that occasion, I alluded to the issues raised by the Transport Committee about the time it had taken to passport various standards that were developed in the maritime sector into the required frameworks for the SFA.

The National Skills Academy for Food & Drink took a lead role in developing one of the apprenticeships that ended up having no learners for food and drink maintenance engineers. Its chief executive frankly blamed the Government. She said that employers involved with the trailblazer group led by the NSAFD, which developed the standard, had been

“frustrated by the evolutionary nature of the government’s decision making process for approval. We were advised at the start that this new and innovative approach was called ‘open policy-making’… Unfortunately policy implementation does not lend itself well to this approach and valuable employer time and effort has been spent unpicking decisions made as policy decisions have firmed up. This has led to redrafting, reworking and lost time, such that the industry has written to the new skills minister, requesting that the Department for Education implements a far more structured and clear process for the future.”

That refers to things that have happened historically in the last couple of years, but the Minister will understand why, on the basis of that, we are keen to make sure that the institute publishes all of its apprenticeship assessment plans for such standards in a timely fashion. Will the Minister, if he is able to, tell us what is the status of his response to the NSAFD on that issue? Its chief executive, Justine Fosh, said that the standard had not been ready for apprenticeship starts until the beginning of this academic year, but that

“at least 60 students I know of”

have started since September.

That is only one example, but as this process strengthens and multiplies, as it needs to do to meet all the Government targets, the Government will have to pay close attention to this issue of capacity and this iterative process, otherwise they will find themselves in a logjam of standards approvals as early as the middle of next year. That is the point at which any Government of any political persuasion, when they have the Opposition or other stakeholders bearing down on them, might be tempted to cut corners. We do not want to see corners cut, but we, like the stakeholders, want to see what progress is taking place in real time. That is why we have put amendment 14 before the Committee today.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The hon. Gentleman said that there was a slow process in taking the trailblazers through. We have committed to carrying out all Government checks and approval processes within six weeks. The average development time is one year. The policy has changed over time and the employer groups have had to make amendments at times.

Under previous amendments, I set out the position on the 61% of all apprentice starting standards. That rises to 94% of apprentice starts, including those that are expected to reach their gateway. We have had some difficulties relating to low volume apprenticeship standards and we are considering recommending a targeted procurement organisation for a bundle of these standards. We are doing everything possible to make sure that the proper assessment organisation is in place.

The amendment recommends that all published standards must be accompanied by an assessment plan. The legislation already allows for the institute to publish assessment plans for standards as it considers appropriate. The flexibility on this is intentional. Our objective is that the Institute for Apprenticeships will assume responsibility for college-based technical education. At that point, standards will apply to both apprenticeships and the college-based routes, but assessment plans will still only apply to apprenticeships. College-based technical education will be tested in a different way because it is taught in a different way, even though it may be testing similar outcomes. It will be up to the panels to decide how each college-based course should be tested, but the proposals have to be scrutinised and approved by the institute. There will be some standards that are not appropriate for apprenticeships and that will be used only for the college-based routes; it is therefore unnecessary to develop and publish a plan for those standards. I hope the hon. Gentleman is reassured enough to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---
Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will speak briefly in support of my hon. Friend. The reality is that those who have become chief executives and chairs of organisations—those with leading roles—are frequently strong characters who want their own way. Some will not want to include in their organisations and structures people who are likely to challenge them. I have seen at least one notorious leader—he has now left, I am pleased to say—who wanted his own way. He would have liked acquiescent, docile and amenable people in his organisation, not people who put alternative points of view, which is actually often a healthy thing. In this place, we want people to put forward alternative points of view and have a range of opinions, even within parties, so that we get things right. We can make mistakes if we allow a wilful leader to have their own way without ever being questioned, let alone challenged.

My hon. Friend is right. We do not want to cause problems within these bodies, but it is important that a range of insights into what is being done is represented within them. I have concerns about giving too much power and freedom to wilful individuals who may not wish to be constrained by having, for example, a trade unionist on the board. Indeed, there are those who will not want a trade unionist on a body, whether that body is a board or a committee deciding on apprenticeships. I strongly support my hon. Friend and hope that the Minister can be persuaded.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

This discussion is incredibly important. I understand that the hon. Members for Blackpool South and for Wythenshawe and Sale East who tabled the amendments want a quality, fair, open and genuinely representative institute at all levels. For me, this is not an argument about quotas. There are three issues: that the institute gives us high-quality technical education that meets our skills deficit; that the institute is independent, but employer-led because, as the Sainsbury report argued, that is how we will achieve that goal; and the question of the best way to achieve representation.

I welcome the intention behind amendment 15, which is to ensure that the groups who develop assessment plans are representative of the sector and others with an interest in ensuring high-quality assessment that really tests the achievement of the standard. That is what we want to do. The experience of the past few years from running our own trailblazer process is that the vast majority of groups that have come together to develop the standards and plans have been representative of the sector. Like the hon. Member for Luton North, I am not opposed to trade unions. I am a union member and very strongly support Unionlearn, which the hon. Member for Blackpool South mentioned. I hope very much that the trade unions will be involved in some way or another.

Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I know very well the Minister’s record and admire the fact that he is a trade unionist, but not all politicians in this place are quite so at ease with trade unionism. Indeed, in the world outside not all are as admirable as the Minister in his support of trade unions.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comment but I think the issue is about how to create that representation. That will be the point of discussion between us.

In the institute, we have designed an organisation that will be able to carry out apprenticeship functions independent of Government, so that the decisions have credibility with employers. The Enterprise Act 2016 gave it autonomy in determining who should be approved to develop each standard and related assessment plan. The idea was to ensure that it had the flexibility to respond differently to different sectors and ensure that the groups are representative. Although it is right that the institute is independent and can make its own choices about how it operates, it is incredibly important that the Secretary of State is still able to give it guidance through a written statutory notice. The institute must have regard to the statutory notice and must justify its actions if it chooses to disregard the advice.

We will shortly consult on the draft of that guidance and that will provide advice on who the group of persons should be. I very much want to encourage the institute to ensure that others, beyond employers, with relevant knowledge and experience are included. As I said in the previous debate, that would be professional bodies, other sector experts, FE providers, other providers and assessment organisations. I strongly encourage hon. Members of all parties to engage in the consultation and give their views.

On amendment 16, I appreciate the interest in ensuring that the institute must be transparent in why it convenes groups and develops an assessment plan. It is essential that we avoid the proliferation of new standards and assessment plans, learning from the experience of previous apprenticeship frameworks. The whole purpose of the reforms is to ensure quality over quantity.

I am sure that hon. Members are aware that in formal technical education, standards form the basis of both apprenticeships and college-based technical education courses. With reference to the previous debate, the quality will the same whether it is the assessment of an apprenticeship or classroom-based education. It just reflects the nature of the different delivery between apprenticeships and college-based courses. Quality is everything; it is the whole purpose of the reforms.

In addition to employer demand, the need for the standard will be informed by the occupational maps. There will be an occupational map for each category, and the maps will be underpinned by labour market information. That is the best way to provide an evidence-based road map for all the provision within each route. The institute must ensure that standards exist for all skilled occupations that need them. Where an approved group of employers and other persons is not available, the institute will be able to convene a group to develop a standard and an assessment plan where necessary, but the occupational map must be the primary factor for determining whether a group of employers is convened. The occupational maps, as well as the approved standards, will be available on the website. The institute can convene a group to develop a standard only if one has not come forward organically, motivated by employer demand. The only other criterion that the institute will use to convene a panel itself is the occupational map, which is publicly available. Therefore, the information that the amendment requests is unnecessary.

The amendment could also have the effect of requiring the institute to publish its set of criteria for who should form the group of persons who will develop the assessment plan. As I said response to amendment 15, it is up to the institute as an independent organisation to decide the detail of how it carries out its functions, but I will reflect seriously on what has been said. I believe in strong representation in all parts of the institute, and we can suggest that it be part of the Secretary of State’s guidance to the institute. For that reason, I hope that hon. Members will feel reassured enough to withdraw the amendment.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The Minister, with thoughtfulness and detail, has taken much the same view on amendment 16 as he took on amendment 15, and I will do the same. I heard what he had to say. It is one of those issues on which we agree to disagree, but as he said, we will have the opportunity to pursue it when the guidance is issued. On that basis, I am content to withdraw amendment 16.

On amendment 15, I have listened carefully to the Minister’s measured and thoughtful response. We are not disputing that the process must be employer-led. That is why we particularly say in the amendment

“a number of employers which, taken together, comprise a broad range of employer within the given occupation”.

That is the issue: there must be somebody in that group who knows their stuff.

This might be a fundamental philosophical difference between us. I find it odd that the Government should so set their face against putting in the Bill the principle that there should be a trade union representative, or indeed someone who could represent the interests of students or apprentices. I was tempted on that basis to press the amendment to a vote, but I will not. I have heard what the Minister said. We will wait to see the guidance, and we will want to contribute to it. As I said, we can always return to the matter on Report. With some reluctance, but recognising his bona fides in the matter, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

--- Later in debate ---
For all those reasons, through amendments 29, 31 and 33 we are arguing strongly that regulations should be subject to the affirmative procedure, rather than the negative procedure listed in the policy document.
Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his scrutiny. I need to explain the context of why we have chosen to go down this route. We have had a lot of discussion about the quality and evaluation of apprenticeship assessments. Ensuring consistency between assessments will mean that an apprentice can be sure that, wherever they obtain their apprenticeship, they are being judged on a fair and equal basis.

Our aim is that the institute should work to ensure that an apprentice in Hull and an engineering apprentice in Blackpool both have consistent and high-quality assessment. The power that allows the institute to charge for its role in reviewing assessments is critical to enabling it to discharge its function of evaluating assessments effectively.

Other organisations approved by the institute to carry out a quality assurance role in relation to apprenticeship assessments, such as professional bodies, are likely to charge. If the institute were unable to charge, there would be an increased incentive for employers to use the institute instead of the other options, and the extra running costs would ultimately fall on the taxpayer. It follows that, like other organisations, the institute should be able to charge for its work and to recover all its costs.

Importantly, the specific fee is likely to be adjusted over time for a range of reasons, such as to reflect any changes in the institute’s approach to carrying out evaluations and as assessments are updated and altered. Additionally, as the Committee will appreciate, the institute is still finalising the operational detail on how it will carry out some of its functions, including the evaluation of assessments, which we have just debated.

The actual amount that the institute will need to charge is not known. It is conceivable, although it has not been decided, that there could be different fees in different cases to take into account the cost of evaluation in different sectors. I reassure the Committee that the policy is that organisations should be able to charge only to cover their costs. We will make that clear to the institute in the guidance letter. Of course, the institute will be able to charge only if authorised to do so, and subject to the restrictions set out in the regulations.

It is likely that the fees would need to be reviewed quite frequently to ensure that they were appropriate, which is why hon. Members will welcome the provision to allow for the introduction of a statutory instrument without requiring Parliament to debate the matter each time a fee changes. The negative procedure ensures that the fee levels can be updated relatively quickly, if necessary, thus protecting the taxpayer from unwanted financial risk. The procedure is consistent with the Secretary of State’s approach to charging fees for certificating framework-based apprenticeships and, more recently, for English apprenticeship certificates—we are doing that in parallel. Even so, as the hon. Member for Blackpool South pointed out, regulations tabled under the negative procedure can still be debated in Parliament. If there were real demand, scrutiny could still be achieved.

Amendment 31 raises the same issue. I agree that any matter left to secondary legislation requires scrutiny, but the negative procedure provides for sufficient parliamentary scrutiny and would enable debate if the secondary legislation was prayed against. In the event that the institute wishes to introduce an application or process, or to update the fee levels, the negative procedure allows for that to be done as quickly as possible, which is consistent with the Secretary of State’s approach to apprenticeships.

As the institute is not yet established, flexibility is needed to prescribe the most appropriate method. We may also wish to seek advice from the institute and others on what those measures should be. I confirm that, at most, the fees should cover all the costs connected with carrying out the function.

I turn to amendment 33. The Secretary of State has powers to make arrangements to develop new technical education provision. The Bill would allow the Secretary of State to transfer those powers to the institute to ensure continuity. I hope it will reassure the hon. Member for Blackpool South and his colleagues if I give a broad overview. We are progressing the arrangements that we are putting in place before the institute takes on its wider responsibility.

The hon. Gentleman will know that creating this new technical education provision is a complex process. Although we are committed to taking through the reforms quickly, and particularly to establishing all 15 technical education routes as soon as possible, we recognise that certain lead-in times are required for reform. The Government plan to phase the reforms in progressively; development will commence before the institute remit is expanded in April 2018.

We have already talked about the occupational maps and the routes to identify occupations. We know that employers will play an especially important role in assessing the standards, including articulating the knowledge, skills and behaviours needed. I assure hon. Members that the negative procedure provides sufficient parliamentary scrutiny. We have thought carefully about the right balance of primary and secondary legislation and about which procedure to use for secondary legislation. We have set out the rationale in the delegated powers memo for the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee in the other place and I look forward to reflecting on that Committee’s response. I hope that the hon. Member for Blackpool South will feel reassured enough to withdraw the amendment.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Again, I am grateful to the Minister for the thoughtful and measured way in which he has put his point of view. I entirely accept everything he has said about the need to move carefully and about the fact that there may be variations in charges and that we may have to return to them frequently.

However, none of that undermines the essential argument that this is a new Bill that is taking on new stuff. We believe—I am afraid that history teaches us lessons in this respect—that it is far safer for the Bill to specify the affirmative procedure than the negative procedure. Although I appreciate the Minister’s remarks, I regret to say that we wish to press the amendment to a vote.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

Division 1

Ayes: 5


Labour: 5

Noes: 8


Conservative: 7

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move amendment 30, page 27, line 3, at end insert—

A2DD Directions: consultation

Directions given to the Institute by the Secretary of State under this Act shall be subject to—

(a) periodic review, and

(b) consultation by the Institute with—

(i) organisations representing the teaching professions,

(ii) further education bodies and provider organisations,

(iii) employers and employers’ organisations,

(iv) awarding bodies, and

(v) organisations representing students and apprentices.”

Broadly speaking, amendment 30 continues the theme of our other amendments this morning. It is interesting to move the amendment after the Minister’s useful exegesis of the role of the Secretary of State and of the relationship between the Secretary of State and the institute, because it is that relationship that the amendment seeks to probe further. The Government’s policy statement gives those further powers to the Secretary of State, in particular in relation to matters concerning technical education.

Technical and Further Education Bill (Sixth sitting)

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

Read Full debate
Committee Debate: 6th sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 29th November 2016

(7 years, 4 months ago)

Public Bill Committees
Technical and Further Education Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 29 November 2016 - (29 Nov 2016)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

None Portrait The Chair
- Hansard -

I remind the Committee that with this we are discussing the following:

Amendment 31, in schedule 1, page 28, line 32, at end insert—

“(3) Regulations under this section shall be laid before Parliament and shall be subject to the affirmative resolution procedure.”.

Amendment 33, in schedule 1, page 30, line 17, leave out “negative” and insert “affirmative”.

Robert Halfon Portrait The Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills (Robert Halfon)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will pick up on a number of points that have been raised before talking about the main substance of the amendment. A key recommendation of the Sainsbury report, No. 8, stated:

“While it is right for the Institute for Apprenticeships to be delegated wide-ranging autonomy across its operational brief, responsibility for key strategic decisions must be reserved for the Secretary of State. Crucially these decisions include those relating to the shape of the overall national system of technical education”.

The Secretary of State will obviously consult when making her decision, and she needs to ensure that any directions are reasonable and include all relevant factors, which means that the Government consult and listen where appropriate. Under public law duties, a Secretary of State has to act reasonably and fairly.

The hon. Member for Blackpool South mentioned City & Guilds, which stated:

“The City & Guilds Group fully supports the Government’s policy drive to improve the skills of the UK workforce and improve the transition for those entering employment from education and training. We see much merit in the Post-16 Skills Plan, and look forward to continuing to work with the Government and the new IATE to improve the quality and esteem of vocational and technical education in the UK.”

The hon. Gentleman also talked about the timescales. We will publish an implementation plan in due course—a real “due course”—which will set out the timeline for delivering the technical education reform set out in Lord Sainsbury’s independent plan and the Government’s post-16 plan. It will demonstrate firmly how we are to ensure that the institute will be able to deliver its functions according to the plan’s timescales.

As I said all the way through this morning’s sitting, the whole purpose of establishing the Institute for Apprenticeships—now to be the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education—is to give employers a clear and independent voice. I understand that it must be strange at first sight that the Bill gives the Secretary of State powers to issue directions to the institute in respect of its responsibilities for technical education qualifications and the steps towards occupational competence, but the limitation in the amendment is neither necessary nor desirable, and I want to set out why.

I have mentioned Lord Sainsbury, who touched on this again in oral evidence to the Committee. We are including the direction provision in the Bill because it ensures that although the institute has real responsibility for developing and operating the technical education system flexibly, that will be in an overall strategic context guided by the Secretary of State. The Committee might be concerned that we did not include a similar power in respect of apprenticeships and the institute, but the two cases differ substantially. There is a stronger relationship between technical education and the education system as a whole—apprenticeships form part of that—particularly as it relates to young people, than is the case with apprenticeships individually.

To make it clearer, let me describe the circumstances in which we envisage that the direction power may be used. They could include a national requirement for all qualifications taken by 16 to 18-year-old students to include a specific core skill or knowledge. Or they could reflect reforms to other parts of the system, such as a change in the structure of A-levels or in the length of the academic year, which might have a strong impact on the shape of technical education provision. Many issues covered by the directions are likely already to be subject to specific consultation before they are put in place, such as the consultations that take place on A-level subject content. The direction power simply enables the Secretary of State to ensure that her wider policy responsibilities are given effect throughout the system.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I intervene on the Minister at this point to clarify that the point of the amendment, and the argument I made, was not to question in any way the ability, legality or desirability of the Secretary of State having an ongoing, one-to-one relationship with the institute. The point was that the aggregate of those instructions, if they are not tempered—that is the way I want to look at it—by a periodic review or consultation with the sorts of organisations that we have talked about, could cause not a chasm but a gap between what one set of people know and what another set know. I entirely understand the Minister’s point about making these decisions based on technical things, but that is the purpose of the amendment. The purpose was not to question in any way the desirability of the Secretary of State having that one-to-one relationship.

--- Later in debate ---
Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

As I mentioned previously, it is highly likely that the Secretary of State, when issuing a strategic direction, will have a full and thorough consultation. We want to make sure that the Government are able to exercise overall strategic control where necessary and without delay.

The amendment relates to additional consultation on, and review of, directions issued to the institute, rather than the principle of the direction-making power itself. We have just agreed that those directions are likely to deal with changes to the education system as a whole, for which consistency of implementation is of primary importance. Consultation and review relating to only part of the system—the institute’s responsibilities for technical education—seems to have little practical value and, we think, might cause considerable delay, which could put coherent and consistent implementation of strategic measures in peril.

There might be other cases in which the Secretary of State would need to intervene quickly, for example before arrangements for particular qualifications are finalised. We therefore believe that the Secretary of State should be able to exercise a direction power of the kind the Sainsbury panel had in mind, without a specific requirement for additional consultation and review, even though it is unlikely that there would be no consultation when that directional power was given. I therefore hope that the hon. Gentleman will agree to withdraw the amendment.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I have heard what the Minister has to say on this matter. Again, I make the point that we are concerned about the aggregate process, and it is that process that prompted this probing amendment. The Minister mentioned the implementation plan, which raises another issue that was brought to us by a number of different people. The Minister and I swapped quotes from City & Guilds, but the original comment I made was what City & Guilds said about the timetable. The implementation plan, which he says will give the timeline in due course, is welcome, and may well allay some of the concerns that others have had and which we have tried to reflect in the amendment. If that is the case—in due course—we will be satisfied. I therefore beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

--- Later in debate ---
Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I support what my hon. Friend says about amendment 17. It is very important to have representation by an apprentice or someone who has recently been an apprentice, so the board gets feedback from someone who has been on the receiving end of the experience, rather than just from people who think they know about it, but may not know it all. An apprentice who has spent considerable time going through the system will have a lot to offer to the board, so that is very important.

It is important to have members of the board who are different from the rest of the board. In the past, having one woman on a board—nowadays, we have many more than that, I am glad to say—made a difference to the nature of the discussions. Having representatives from minority communities on boards makes a difference by broadening the discussions and making them better. Assumptions that might have been made if the board were made up of small “c” conservatives and middle-aged white men in suits—I am one of them—can be challenged. We see too many people like me, and not enough of other people—[Interruption.] I said people like me, not necessarily me personally. It is important to recognise that there are other voices and other views, and the way to get those views represented is to have such people on the boards. Having at least one apprentice on a board is a good idea, although it should be someone who is experienced—someone who is coming to the end of their course or has just completed it, not someone who is at the beginning of their course. I strongly support what my hon. Friend said, and I hope the Government take cognisance of his views.

Turning to amendment 32, I have chaired two confirmation hearings and I sat on a committee interviewing an appointee before they went for their confirmation hearing. I think it is an extremely good exercise that has improved the quality of the appointments in recent years, so I very much welcome it. Occasionally, the people have not been ideal for the job and have chosen to stand down before going right through the process; I think that shows wisdom. Sometimes the Government and Ministers have been reluctant to let go of appointments, but they have now done so, and I think they are pleased with the job that Select Committees have done on confirmation hearings. I really do think that this would be a very good idea.

It is particularly important to have confirmation hearings for the chair, although perhaps the chair should deal with the chief executive. The confirmation hearings I chaired were to do with that role. It might not have been a chair—it might have been a director or something—but we were essentially interviewing for the chair role. It was extremely interesting and very useful, and I think that in each of those hearings we got the right result. I support amendment 32 in principle, even if my hon. Friend does not press it to a vote.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Let me begin by saying that if there were more people like the hon. Member for Luton North in education and skills, we would be in a very good place indeed—whatever their age may be.

Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I should correct myself. I said “middle aged”; I think that is rather beyond me. [Laughter.]

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Member for Blackpool South for tabling these amendments, particularly amendment 17, which is a very thoughtful amendment. He may be interested to know that even before they were tabled, when we were discussing these matters, I made some of the points that he just made.

Regarding advertising and interviewing for the board members, we have had 281 applications to the board, representing a wide spectrum of apprenticeship experience. I believe that once the board is finalised the hon. Gentleman will be happy with the membership—we have a few rubber stamps to go yet, but I think he will be happy. He will know that the board is responsible for ensuring that the interests of apprentices and students of technical education are well represented.

I have thought about this issue very seriously—long before we discussed it in Committee—but I cannot go so far as to say there should definitely be apprentices on the board. In part that is because board members need to have experience and they carry a great deal of governance responsibility; they also come under press scrutiny, which is not easy. In addition, the board needs to represent the interests of all apprentices of varying levels, ages and sectors, so a single recent apprentice would be unlikely to speak for all apprentices. We do not think that the amendment offers the best way to represent the interests of apprentices and those in technical education.

I think we can square the circle by agreeing that the institute should draw on the experiences of apprentices, so I am pleased to announce that we expect the institute to invite apprentices to establish an apprentice panel, which would report directly to the board. The panel would be made up of apprentices from different occupations and experiences. The panel would decide for itself which issues to focus on, and it will challenge and make recommendations to the board. That squares the difficult circle of wanting experience but also having the vital input from apprentices up and down the country. The Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education will ensure that the first panel is in place before the institute goes live in April 2017. The institute will consider how best to engage with apprentices on an ongoing basis and how best to represent technical education students ahead of it taking on that responsibility in April 2018.

I am also pleased to report that there are plans to recruit three apprentices to work at the institute, which will review that number periodically. While I am in this post, I will certainly look at this issue with an eye to expanding the number of apprentices who work for the new institute.

Regarding amendment 32, I understand that it is looking for scrutiny of these crucial appointments—the hon. Member for Luton North spoke about how important these appointments are. However, given the size and scope of the institute, and even after the addition of the new functions in the Bill, I do not agree that the amendment is necessary. Generally, appointments that are subject to confirmation hearings by Select Committees are to much larger organisations. Furthermore, the appointment of the chair is subject to a code of practice set out by the Office of the Commissioner for Public Appointments, as the hon. Gentleman no doubt knows, and is already subject to a high degree of scrutiny.

In line with requirements, the Secretary of State has approved the launch of a recruitment campaign for the chair and the public appointment selection panel. The panel is chaired by a public appointments assessor, and as the appointing Minister I am kept informed every step of the way. A shadow chief executive is in post; the recruitment of the permanent chief executive will follow established civil service rules, with fair and open competition. Also, the Enterprise Act 2016 is clear that the chief executive will first be appointed by the Secretary of State in consultation with the chair and thereafter by the institute itself. The chair and chief executive can of course be called on by the relevant Select Committees to give evidence to Parliament and account for their actions

I do not think the amendment is necessary as I believe that the appointments will be subject to appropriate scrutiny, consistent with established public appointment rules. I hope that the Committee agrees on the need for the institute’s leadership to be established without delay, especially given questions posed by the hon. Member for Blackpool South about the institute’s capacity, whether it will be set up in time, and so on. I hope that the Opposition are sufficiently reassured by that information to withdraw the amendment.

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None Portrait The Chair
- Hansard -

Before I call the Minister to respond, I remind Committee members that any decisions on new clauses are taken at the end of the Bill.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will start with new clause 4 and then go on to the other provisions before answering the general queries of the hon. Member for Blackpool South.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Batley and Spen on a really important contribution to the debate; I mean that genuinely. She knows from the brief conversation we had that I completely agree with much of what she says. I agree that we have a problem with careers in our country. I agree that for so long, careers guidance has pushed people towards universities. Having said that, I can imagine a lot of things, but I could never imagine the hon. Member for Luton North as a banker—I have a broad mind, but it is not that broad.

One reason why we have those problems is that wherever I go around the country, whatever institutes I visit and whatever kids I speak to, it is exactly the same: the chances are, they will not have been given advice on apprenticeships or technical education. It is university, university, university. We need to change that. I would be pleased to have the hon. Lady’s input. Careers guidance used to be fragmented and covered by two Departments, but we have moved it wholly to the Department for Education.

When I was appointed Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills, I realised that the title should have been Minister for apprenticeships, skills and careers guidance because careers guidance is perhaps the most important part of everything we are trying to achieve in the Bill. It is the first rung on the ladder of opportunity because without the right careers guidance we will not succeed in what we want to do. That goes back to the arguments of the hon. Member for Luton North on prestige and other things.

The hon. Lady said—this is important—that we need more than just warm words. I accept that and I am looking at the whole issue from the beginning: what we can do in careers guidance, whether it is possible to gear it much more towards skills and starting not in secondary school, but primary school and going all the way through. To be fair, the Government have done substantive work. First, it is now a legislative requirement that schools must give careers advice on apprenticeships. With reference to what the hon. Member for Luton North said, we have also tightened up in legislation the definition of “apprenticeship”.

When I spoke at an hotel recently, I asked someone whether they realised they would be paying the levy and whether they were going to have apprentices. The reply was, “We’ve already got some in the kitchen.” When I said, “You already have apprentices?” they replied, “No, they are interns, or whatever.” We have changed the definition to make sure that an apprenticeship is what it says on the tin.

We have also created the Careers & Enterprise Company, to which the hon. Member for Luton North kindly referred, and again I have been around the country to see it working in practice. I have been to east London and the north-east. Of course there is much more to do. Some £90 million, which is a serious amount of money and not just warm words, is being invested over the Parliament not just in the Careers & Enterprise Company, but in careers generally: 1,190 enterprise advisers and 78 enterprise co-ordinators. They have connected 900 schools in about 37 of the 38 local enterprise partnerships, the whole purpose being to build careers links with students and to get them to do work experience.

There is a £5 million careers and enterprise fund to boost provision for nearly 250,000 young people across England in 75% of the areas the Careers & Enterprise Company identified as cold spots. There is a £12 million mentoring fund, because mentoring is incredibly important. This year, £75 million is being spent on the National Careers Service to help its work and £24 million on web kits to support more than 650 people with face-to-face advice. We have started the work.

David Rutley Portrait David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend is setting out some important things the Government are doing and no doubt he will explain what more is to be done. Does he agree with Lord Heseltine who said recently in a Select Committee that industrial policy for the benefit of the country starts in primary school classes if we are to achieve the productivity gains we want?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend is exactly right. I was in a primary school—it might have been in the constituency of the hon. Member for Blackpool South—where the kids had to guess the career of the individuals there. They included a fire officer, a business person and a pilot, who then went out and returned with their uniforms on. Careers guidance must start in school. We will not achieve what we want unless it starts in primary schools.

I am looking at the matter and there are substantive funds, but we must change the whole argument and gear careers advice towards skills and apprenticeships, although we have no problem with people going to university. I have held roundtables, not just with the great and the good, but with people from up and down the country, to get ideas for how to form our careers strategy. The hon. Member for Batley and Spen is very welcome to take part in them when they carry on next year.

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Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I understand the Minister’s point, and I, likewise, would not want to lumber the institute with the responsibility for all those things. Will he give us an assurance, because he said these things occur from time to time, that there will be, at some point during an annual cycle, what I can only describe as a “state of the nation” report? That report could actually bring these various things—not necessarily all of them—together, so that not only stakeholders but Parliament will have a clear picture of what has happened over the past year.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will reflect on what the hon. Gentleman has said. I reiterate the point that a lot of that is done already. We have monthly and annual announcements of all kinds of data to do with apprenticeships and skills. I always ask about destinations because I think they are incredibly important. I am glad that surveys show, for example, that more than 90% of apprentices get into work afterwards, either by staying in place or entering other employment. That is an incredibly important destination statistic.

On new clause 5, the principle of consultation, which we have mentioned quite a lot today, is already a key feature of the current Institute for Apprenticeships. The institute has a statutory duty under the Enterprise Act 2016 to undertake its functions with regard to industry, commerce, finance, the professions and other employers regarding education and training within the institute’s remit. Even more importantly, the institute must also undertake its functions with regard to those who may wish to undertake education and training that is within the institute’s remit—the apprentices themselves.

More specifically, the institute also already has a statutory responsibility to ensure that all draft standards and assessment plans are subject to third-party scrutiny before they can be considered for approval, and it must take account of the findings and conclusions of those carrying out that independent review. The bodies and organisations listed in the new clause are already covered by that existing legislation, and the institute must have regard to them in all functions, not only the specific function set out in the new clause. That approach will also apply to the functions that the Bill plans to give to the expanded IFATE.

The consultative principles that will underpin the institute have already been evidenced. Antony Jenkins, the shadow chair, has held a series of roundtables with a wide range of external organisations to hear how they think the institute should operate. Later this year the shadow institute will publish a full consultation on the operational plan for the institute, setting out its core functions and proposals for how it will deliver them.

The Department also plans to publish a draft for the consultation of a statutory strategic guidance document, which it will issue to the institute next year. That will include the steers that the Government expect the institute to have regard to. It will ensure that the institute consults all those with an interest when carrying out its functions. I therefore hope that the hon. Members will be reassured and will not press the new clauses.

I will come to an overview of schedule 1 but will begin by answering some of the key questions the hon. Member for Blackpool South asked. Although the 19 to 24-year-old NEET figure increased by 0.8% in July to September, he will know that the overall trend has been down over the years. The figure for 16 to 18-year-olds fell by 1.5% compared with the same quarter in 2015.

The hon. Gentleman also asked about the clarity of a single awarding body—the Wolf report body. Of course, we looked at that but the Wolf report, as the hon. Gentleman will know, identified that a large proportion of vocational qualifications offered very little value to employers, young people and adult learners. The whole purpose is to remove thousands of poor-quality qualifications that were not valued by employers.

The proliferation of qualifications was partly down to the awarding organisations’ competition for market share within the existing system. Following Lord Sainsbury’s recommendations, we are bringing the system into line with the best in the world to ensure excellence in technical education provision and having a single awarding body per qualification model. It is strange that the hon. Gentleman should argue for competition while I am doing the opposite but we live in a topsy-turvy world. We are not being driven by competition in the market, with the adverse effects that that brought. Innovation will be driven by the awarding body competition for the market through winning exclusive licences.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

We may live in a topsy-turvy world but, on balance, we are a little less gung-ho about competition than the Minister’s colleague, the Minister for Universities, Science, Research and Innovation, was on the Higher Education and Research Bill Committee. However, that was not the point I was going to make.

The point I want to make is that there is a distinction. I made it clear that I was putting forward the concerns of a number of the awarding organisations that they put to us in evidence. There is a clear difference between letting 1,000 flowers wither because they are of poor quality, and coming down to a single qualification point. I made the observation in one of the papers that the suggestion had been made that there might be two or three. There was no suggestion that there should be no dilution; simply that a monopoly position was possibly unwise, not least because one of the awarding companies might one day go bust.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will reflect on that but the whole purpose is to ensure quality and simplification. Once it is agreed to have another one, then there is another and another and so on. I think we are right to follow the recommendations of Lord Sainsbury and Baroness Wolf.

Tracy Brabin Portrait Tracy Brabin
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I appreciate the amount of money given to careers advice; it sounds substantial. I have just googled the Careers & Enterprise Company and discovered that in my region of Leeds city only 5.6% of young people are in apprenticeships; 33% of 16-year-olds and 30% of 17 to 18-year-olds are poorly prepared for work. That is on the Government website. That suggests to me that they have not had brilliant careers advice, even given the extra money that is available, so maybe that message is not coming through.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will find out what the Careers & Enterprise Company is doing in Leeds and in the hon. Lady’s constituency. It will be involved with the LEP, but it has not been there for a long time; it is a recent creation. It has been working to identify the spots where we need help the most. I will look into what is happening and write to the hon. Lady.

On the copyright issue, the content of qualifications will be determined by employers, with the support of the institute. That is very different from the current system, where awarding organisations develop qualifications in subjects or sectors of their choosing. In some cases that is with the involvement of employers, but not always. The new technical qualification will be based on the skills, knowledge and behaviours that employers have identified as requirements for particular occupations. As the content of the qualifications will be determined with the institute’s oversight, it is perfectly reasonable and appropriate that copyright for relevant course documents should rest with the institute.

On the relationship between the framework and the new standards, the same organisations can deliver assessments for frameworks and new standards as long as they meet the criteria for assessment organisations for standards and are admitted on to the register of assessment organisations. The same position exists for training. Providers can offer training for both but need to meet the criteria and get on to the provider register.

When I was talking about careers, I forgot to talk about the investment we are putting into training, which the hon. Member for Blackpool South mentioned. The hon. Member for Batley and Spen gave examples of constituents who are not getting apprenticeships and described the low take-up. For those people, we potentially offer traineeships. We have spent £50 million on that. Many of those people—over 19%—are people with learning difficulties and disabilities.

In terms of Ofqual and Ofsted, I see it not as a problem but as a bonus that there are all these qualification organisations out there, maintaining the quality of apprenticeships and technical education. As the hon. Member for Blackpool South knows, Ofqual and Ofsted are responsible for different elements of the system; Ofqual regulates qualifications and Ofsted regulates the trainers and providers. The institute will regulate the quality of standards and assessment plans. I do not think that is a problem. It is a good thing that all those bodies are there, to ensure we get the quality technical education and apprenticeships we need.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will reflect on what the Minister said. Even if it is a good thing that there is a plurality of opportunities, I will reiterate two points. First, it does not make the judgment of what capacity the institute may need when competing in this marketplace any easier. Secondly, I hope the Minister will understand and accept that there are enough difficult organograms out there already in further and technical education without creating one with lots of little dotted lines here, there and everywhere. If he is going to maintain that position, it is important that lines of responsibility and why they work are clearly explained to stakeholders and employers.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point and I will reflect on what he has said, but I think it will be set out clearly. We are considering how the new technical education qualification should be regulated. The regulatory approach will need to be designed specifically for new qualifications and in the light of the institute’s contract management function. Ofqual remains the qualifications regulator.

I am pleased to turn now to the schedule and give an overview of what the Bill seeks to do. We have discussed much of it today. The schedule seeks to extend the remit of the Institute for Apprenticeships to give it responsibility for implementing reforms that we believe will raise the quality of college-based technical education. The reforms will result in technical education courses that are designed around employers’ needs, support young people and adults to secure sustained employment and meet the needs of our economy.

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None Portrait The Chair
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Mr Marsden, may I make it clear that, if you are speaking to clauses subsequent to clause 2, no amendments have been tabled for clauses 3 to 12 either? We understand that neither the Opposition Front-Bench team, nor the Minister, wish to speak to these clauses. Is that correct?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Except for clause 2.

None Portrait The Chair
- Hansard -

So do we have the leave of the Committee to put the question—after the Minister has spoken—and we have dealt with clause 2, that clauses 3 to 12 stand part of the Bill?

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Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I have some experience in these matters. There have been funding pressures in all spheres of post-16 education, although not necessarily in universities, which seem to be well funded compared with other areas. In spite of the fact that there are advantages of scale in producing wide ranges of subjects in whatever qualification one is taking, some of the smaller subjects are, even now, dying. We are getting to a point where subjects such as modern European languages are being lost entirely from an area because no college or school will teach them any more. That is tragic. We should be creating more variety of opportunity in technical and academic education, not less.

My second major speech when I first came into this place was about funding for sixth-form colleges and the fact that they did a superb job. I said that funding constraints were in danger of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs: the sixth-form college sector. They do a fabulous job and I know from experience that we should have created more of them. Sadly, a view was held that we should create lots of schools with small, less efficient sixth forms with much narrower subject ranges, instead of sixth-form colleges. I think that went in entirely the wrong direction. I hope that I can persuade the Minister and others that we ought to look more favourably on sixth-form colleges and FE colleges if we are to make serious advances in educating and training our young people better than we have done in the recent past.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

May I put some things in context for the hon. Member for Blackpool South before I speak directly on the clause? No one denies that there have been funding pressures, as the hon. Member for Luton North pointed out, but, even with such pressures, 80% of colleges are either good or outstanding, and 79% of adult FE students get jobs, move to apprenticeships or progress to university. Some 59% of institutions are in good financial health and 52% are operating with a surplus. That does not mean everything is rosy, but it puts things into context.

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Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I have two observations: first, “protecting” is an interesting word when we are talking cash terms as they are not real terms. By 2020 inflation may have eaten into that figure. Secondly, the hon. Gentleman mentions the advanced learning loans, but are they not sums of money out there to be offered—and at the moment, only 50% of them have been taken up?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Yes, but it is still a Government expenditure item and its aim is to help more people take part in education.

Overall, the Department for Education plans to invest £7 billion in 2016-17 to fund education and training places for 16 to 19-year-olds. The area reviews will support those colleges that want to merge—no one is being forced to merge—and we will provide financial support where appropriate to help them do so. We are confident about the programme and we will deliver strong, sustainable colleges for the future. Mergers do not necessarily mean that provision in a local area will end. It will be up to the colleges to decide whether to keep a campus or site open.

The clause is probably the least technical of the Bill’s insolvency-related clauses. It explains that part 2 is about the insolvency of further education bodies and, in summarising what is covered by chapters 2 to 7, sets the scene for what we will debate over the coming sittings. Underneath the simple clause is the Government’s commitment to ensuring that every young person has the opportunity to achieve their full potential and to succeed.

The Secretary of State talked about the Government’s commitment to building a further education sector capable of delivering these skills and that is why we are supporting colleges through the area review to take whatever steps are needed to transform themselves into providers of the highest quality teaching. We are providing them with the opportunity to ensure they are in a strong and sustainable financial position for the future.

Once the area review recommendations have been implemented, the Government has been clear that we will no longer provide exceptional financial support to colleges that find themselves in financial difficulties. We will draw a line under what has become an implicit understanding among creditors and some educational institutions that those who fall into extreme financial difficulty will be able to rely on the taxpayer to make good the shortfall.

The provisions in the Bill will send a clear message to colleges that, to deliver excellence in teaching and leadership, they need to ensure that they have strong and robust financial controls in place. The commissioner who gave evidence said that, where there had been significant problems, much had been down to leadership and financial management. Why is it that so many colleges are doing extremely well, the college of the hon. Member for Blackpool South being an example?

Any college or creditor in extreme financial difficulties cannot look to the Government as the bank of mum and dad for a bail-out. The bank of mum and dad—the taxpayer—will be shut, because we have a duty to give taxpayer value.

Although we expect a college insolvency to be a rare thing, we cannot say it will never happen. That is why the measures the Bill introduces will ensure existing insolvency procedures apply to further education bodies, whereas ordinary insolvency procedures would offer protection only to creditors.

If I summed up this part of the Bill in a few words, it would be about protection, insurance, prudence and caution. Through the Bill we will introduce a special administration regime for the sector that ensures that, in the unlikely event that a college become insolvent, the Secretary of State or Welsh Ministers will be able to take action to protect the interests of the learners.

That is at the heart of the Bill: protecting learners and ensuring that colleges are cautious about borrowing and banks are cautious and prudent about lending. Young people entering a college expect to complete their studies, leaving with the skills that they need to move forward in their lives. That is the purpose of the SAR and I urge that the clause stand part of the Bill.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 2 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 3 to 12 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(David Evennett.)

Technical and Further Education Bill (Seventh sitting)

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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Committee Debate: 7th sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 1st December 2016

(7 years, 4 months ago)

Public Bill Committees
Technical and Further Education Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 1 December 2016 - (1 Dec 2016)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

None Portrait The Chair
- Hansard -

Members may remove their jackets during the sitting if they wish. Will everyone please ensure that all electronic devices are turned off or switched to silent mode? The selection list for today’s sitting is available in the room. I remind Committee members that we will consider clauses and schedules in the order set out in the programme order, which has been previously agreed and is set out at the end of the amendment paper. We will start with clause 13, to which no amendments have been tabled.

Clause 13

Overview of Chapter

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Robert Halfon Portrait The Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills (Robert Halfon)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, Mr Bailey. The clause is the first in chapter 4, which deals with the regime at the heart of the insolvency measures in the Bill. In this chapter, we make provision for the special administration regime that will make sure that students attending further education bodies in England and Wales are protected should that body fail. Hon. Members will be aware that the regime has been broadly welcomed by all, and I am grateful to the hon. Member for Blackpool South for welcoming it previously. That is not to say that there are no points of concern for stakeholders, but I hope to address those as we work our way through the clauses.

The clause sets out the when, the who and the what of the regime, which will be formally known as education administration. First, the when: the regime can be used when

“a further education body is unable to pay its debts or is likely to become unable to pay its debts”—

in other words, when an FE body is insolvent, based on the well established definition in the Insolvency Act 2000. Secondly, the who: an education administrator can be appointed by the court only on the application of the Secretary of State or Welsh Ministers, depending on where the FE body is based. Thirdly, the what: the education administrator will be responsible for managing the FE body’s

“affairs, business and property with a view to avoiding or minimising disruption to the studies of existing students.”

Each of those features is set out in more detail in subsequent clauses. I look forward to debating them with members of the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 13 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 14

Objective of education administration

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move amendment 1, in clause 14, page 8, line 4, at end insert—

“(3) Before an education administrator may perform functions specified in subsection (2), they must ensure an appropriate assessment is made and published of the impact of performing such functions, including, but not restricted, to—

(a) the impact on the quality of education provided to existing students of the further education body;

(b) the capacity of another body or institution to undertake any additional functions or provide education to additional students;

(c) the infrastructure of the local area, in particular transport;

(d) any impact on the travel arrangements of students to another body or institution; and,

(e) any financial impact on those students or any such impact on their travel arrangements, and what measures need to be taken to mitigate them.

(4) The Secretary of State shall make regulations to specify suitable bodies for making the assessments at subsection (3).”.

This amendment would ensure that an appropriate assessment is made of any potential impacts on students and their education, if an education administrator puts a further education body into “special administration” and takes action such as transferring students to another institution or keeps an insolvent institution open for existing students. This amendment would also require the Secretary of State to specify suitable bodies to perform such assessments.

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Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend again makes a very good point. It underlines our concerns and why we think such issues need to be taken into account.

Amendment 2 is designed to ensure that, within the circumstances in which the process takes place, all relevant stakeholders are fully consulted about decisions taken by the education administrator in respect of the future of the institution. This touches on a theme not dissimilar to that which we discussed during the debates on schedule 1 to the Higher Education and Research Bill, where consultation with staff and students was a high priority.

The amendment would ensure that there is full consultation with various bodies or groups representing further education staff and students. Members of the Committee might ask, “Is this necessary? Surely the students and the student body are bound to be informed,” but I have to say—Members may have experience of this—that is supposed to be the case when businesses fail and companies go bust or when something cataclysmic happens, but often workers or employees are not kept in the loop. We should legislate for the worst scenarios and the worst employers, not for the best.

It is important that the education administrator should consider representations from relevant stakeholders such as students and staff, as they have invested two or three years of their time and money in studying and their livelihoods will depend on the institution in question. It is surely not too much to ask that the education administrator should have the responsibility placed on him or her to consider those representations, too.

The other group it is vital to consult are recognised trade unions at the further education body. The positive influence of unions on training and skills in the workplace and in colleges is another key reason why unions should be consulted. Research by Unionlearn has shown, as I have mentioned before, that the union effect on skills across the whole economy is significant and has strengthened in recent years. I am obviously referring to the training that goes on at work, but often the trade union representatives who operate in a college will be either union learning reps themselves or closely associated with union learning reps. That point needs to be made. On the union learning fund, an independent evaluation has demonstrated a range of new findings about the positive impact of union learning for both employers and employees. That also has a bearing on the necessity and advisability of consulting the recognised trade unions at the further education college in question.

I will finish with those remarks, but I ask that the Minister gives some thought to both amendments. These are things that should happen, and by making the amendments we would ensure that they do happen.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his thoughtful amendments. I will comment on a few of the points he made, then go into the substance of the amendments.

The hon. Gentleman will know that the AOC, the Sixth Form Colleges Association and the Collab Group work closely with the Government and will continue to do so as we develop secondary legislation to address their concerns. On trade unions, I will come on to the general point about consultation, but first let me quote the TUC:

“Whilst the TUC continues to express concerns about the financial pressures colleges are facing due to the major cuts to the sector…we do welcome the new safeguards that will enable students to complete their courses in the event of a college becoming insolvent.”

In addition, we have committed £12 million to Unionlearn.

The hon. Gentleman asked where the funding was coming from. Crucially, clause 25 states that the Secretary of State will have the power to fund special administration as long as the funding is for the purpose of achieving a special objective through either a grant or a loan, and the decision on funding will obviously be taken on a case-by-case basis. The whole purpose of the education administrator is to speed things up. If we look at this in a general context, at the moment there is no protection; there is nothing. We are creating a protection regime for students with the purpose of ensuring that the education administrator acts quickly.

The hon. Gentleman talked about an exodus of staff. If colleges reach such a situation, it is likely that there will have been some kind of intervention, perhaps by the FE commissioner, way in advance. I do not think that would suddenly come about just because of the insolvency regime. All staff will be subject to statutory legislation on terms of employment and so on. That is worth noting. There cannot be a one-size-fits-all solution.

I am talking as though these circumstances will arise regularly. They will not. The whole purpose of the SAR is, as I said last week, to be an insurance against the worst possible outcome, which I think, given what is happening with the area reviews, will be very rare indeed.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I understand that this will have to be done on a case-by-case basis, but has the amount of money that might be needed in a calendar year to deal with this been assessed? Obviously, it will have to be agreed with the Treasury. The Minister says he does not think this scenario is likely, given the area reviews. I hope he is right, but I am very conscious that the FE commissioner said the number of colleges that may merge on this basis might be in the 80s. Surely there might be problems with at least some of those, and surely that should have been taken into account.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

There is a substantial restructuring fund, which I believe is about £756 million. As I say, funding of a SAR has to be done on a case-by-case basis because every case will be completely different. It will be up to the education administrator to decide how to proceed. The hon. Gentleman mentioned the different options.

Tracy Brabin Portrait Tracy Brabin (Batley and Spen) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Before I make my comment, I thank the Minister for his letter this morning on the Careers & Enterprise Company. I was grateful to receive it and I thank him for sending it in such a timely fashion. I have been monitoring the situation locally, and if things work, I will be encouraging other sixth-form departments in schools to get involved, because some schools are not doing so.

The Minister says that the measure will speed things up, but there is one thing on which I could do with some clarification. Clause 23 relates to transfer schemes. The explanatory notes say that:

“Such schemes can be used to override some third party rights, e.g. transferring a lease without the landlord’s consent”.

I want to double-check something. If that were to happen with Kirklees Council and someone wanted to take back a building, that could lead to some sort of legal dispute. Would that not hold up the transfer of the students to another college and the process of their learning?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Will the hon. Lady allow me to think about that example? We will consider transfer schemes in detail later, but I do not think the issue she highlights would arise. The transfer schemes are particularly about looking after the students and establishing who the provider is if the existing college management are no longer looking after the students. There might be a different provider, but we will come on to that point later in our consideration.

Ranil Jayawardena Portrait Mr Ranil Jayawardena (North East Hampshire) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Is not the point, as we heard in the evidence from the banks, that some banks may take a view that they should realise their security? The provision allows for learners to be prioritised in any transfer or land, property and so on, so that that is to their interests. They should come first.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend has it exactly right. He asked that question in our evidence sessions, and one of the banks said, “No, our whole purpose is to act in the interest of the lenders.” The whole purpose of this provision, however, is to act in the students’ interest. Creditors will get a fair deal, but one that is in the interest of students.

I will come on to transfer schemes in a minute. The area review mergers are different, but it is important to quote Richard Atkins, the FE Commissioner, from the evidence session. He said:

“Mergers do not necessarily mean the closure of sites, so they do not mean the end of provision for students locally. Clearly, in rural areas, for example, the history of the sector has been that provision has not gone even when there have been mergers. When Truro and Penwith came together, that did not end provision in Penzance. In fact, it regenerated the provision in Penzance to a higher standard. You can see that across the country.”

I accept he is talking about area reviews, but he went on to say:

“The idea that you close provision down in a particular district, borough or town is not something I would be in favour of at all. I would be looking for merger solutions that bring together back-room services, avoid duplication and so on.”––[Official Report, Technical and Further Education Public Bill Committee, 22 November 2016; c. 26, Q34.]

This will not always be the case, but it is important to say that a merger does not necessarily mean the closure of provision in an area.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I entirely accept what the Minister has just said, but at the risk of over-stressing the point, decisions about transferring students can affect the closure of courses. The closure of courses is not necessarily the same as closing a site, but it can have a deleterious effect on an area. One can think of a college where lots of people are doing accountancy and that course becomes no longer available in that town, even though the college is still going to be there. That is the only point I want to make. The issue is broader than simply saying, “You either close the college or you don’t.” There is a suite of potential impacts there.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I accept that completely, but I was just trying to again make the point that currently if a college has financial difficulties, it can close a particular bit of provision and no one has any guarantees whatever. This measure will change that.

On the transfer schemes, it is important to talk about the statutory duties. We all know that under the Education Act 1996, the Secretary of State has a general duty to promote education and exercise his or her powers

“with a view to…improving standards, encouraging diversity and increasing opportunities for choice.”

Local authorities have a duty to ensure that their areas have sufficient education and training provision. They also have a duty to publish a transport statement setting out what arrangements they consider necessary to support young people to access education or training.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned education maintenance allowance. We took the view that we want to give funds to those who most need it, and the problem with the education maintenance allowance was that it went to everyone. It was paid to 45% of all 16 to 18-year-olds in further education and it was not income-related, which is why we introduced the 16-to-19 bursary fund.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I hesitate to cross swords with the Minister but I think that is factually not entirely correct. The education maintenance allowance came in at least two—I think were three—different tiers. The top tier, which from memory was about £30 a week, was specifically focused in many cases on travel. I do not wish to move outside of the scope of the amendment, Mr Bailey, but it is important to make this point: subsequent assessments of the impact on students who had had it taken away showed significantly that the travel aspect of the different elements was most well regarded. I am not here to open up a debate about EMA—we have given our points of view—but it is important for the Minister to take those points on board.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I do, but an independent evaluation found that only about one in 10 of those who received EMA said that they would not be able to participate without it. That is why we introduced the 16-to-19 bursary fund—to ensure that the money goes to those who need it—which amounts to £177 million for 2015-16. That is why, as the hon. Gentleman knows, I campaigned successfully with the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) for free school meals for students from disadvantaged backgrounds in FE colleges. The Government are spending £39 million on that. That is separate from the £500 million that is given to the FE sector to spend on what FE bodies like, but primarily for helping the disadvantaged. The Government are doing everything that they can to ensure that those in need are getting the right support.

Let me move on to the substance of the amendment. We want to be sure that, as far as possible, if their college finds itself in financial distress students are able to continue their studies with little or no disruption. The clause does that by setting out the overarching objective for the education administration: to “avoid or minimise disruption” to the students.

The hon. Member for Blackpool South noted that the special objective can be achieved in a number of ways, and we do not believe that one size fits all. It could be done by rescuing the body as a going concern, with a new principal and governors if necessary; by merging with another body, perhaps another college nearby; by keeping the college open to teach out the existing students; or by arranging for students to transfer to another college to complete their studies. That list is not exhaustive, nor is it intended to be prescriptive. There may be other options, and those are not intended to be mutually exclusive. Occasionally some students might be transferred to another college and others taught out. It will be for the education administrator to decide what is best, based on the circumstances of each case.

I appreciate the suggestions made by the hon. Gentleman, but I assure him that it is inconceivable that the education administrator would take decisions on how the special objective would be met without first having had conversations with a wide range of stakeholders. Let me be clear: I and the Government would expect, in an appropriate case, the education administrator to liaise with the FE commissioner—that view was shared by the FE commissioner last week in his evidence—who might be able to advise the education administrator whom they should be speaking to in addition to staff, students, local authorities and the other providers. We would expect that the EA, in seeking to fulfil the special objective to avoid or minimise disruption to students’ studies, would seek to satisfy themselves that, as far as possible, the quality of the education or training that students have been receiving at the college is maintained. That may be achieved by transferring students to another provider or by continuing to teach them in the FE body until they complete their courses.

We expect the education administrator to take travel distances into account when considering the transfer of students to another provider, on the basis that the special objective is about avoiding or minimising disruption to the studies of existing students. Where possible he may choose to take into account the generally used guideline of travel for learners of no more than 75 minutes to and from their place of study, even though the FE commissioner observed to the Committee that some—not all; not those who are not able to—learners are happy to travel considerable distances for the right provision.

I understand the concerns that amendment 1 seeks to address in relation to additional transport-related costs for students in the event that they are transferred to another body. For those who are transferred, there may be scope for the EA to set up a scheme to cover some or more of the additional travel costs from any funding provided by the Secretary of State or Welsh Ministers, as I highlighted a moment ago in terms of clause 25. Although there is no obligation on FE bodies to provide student transport, it is open for them to use the resources that are available to best support their students because, as I mentioned, disadvantage funding is not ring-fenced. Where students attract such funding, FE bodies can decide upon the most appropriate offer for their students. Often they do give those students free transport.

The education administrator will want to be sure that in deciding the right option for dealing with the particular body in insolvency, they have assessed a wide range of factors, including those set out in the amendment, calling on advice and input as necessary from those best placed to help. It is therefore unnecessary for the Secretary of State to make regulations to specify “suitable bodies” for making the assessments described in the hon. Gentleman’s amendment.

We are keen to strike the balance between a fair and thorough process that generates well thought through conclusions, and a system that is not so rigid that it ends up working against the interests of students by being drawn out and cumbersome. The hon. Gentleman observed that himself. The longer it takes to end the education administration, the longer students face uncertainty and possible disruption. The number of FE bodies and their different circumstances mean that there would be no single solution in the event of an insolvency, and the education administrator needs the flexibility to be able to do what is right in the circumstances.

As the hon. Member for Batley and Spen said in the evidence session on 22 November, we need to give students certainty about what will happen as quickly as possible; that is as much true for the staff, and for the creditors. Of course, if students, or anyone else, are unhappy with the EA’s actions, they can bring their concerns to the attention of the Secretary of State, or the Welsh Ministers, who have the power to be able to challenge the education administrator through the courts if the EA is not carrying out their functions for the purposes of achieving the special objective or the objective relating to the creditors.

I recognise the intention behind the amendments and believe that, as much as possible, the Bill covers the issues that the hon. Gentleman has raised. I hope that he is reassured enough to withdraw the amendment.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to the Minister for the detail that he has gone into. It is particularly useful that he made the point about there being scope for the EA to get supplementary funding in certain circumstances. That is welcome. We may want to look again at this issue on Report, but at the moment I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 14 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 15

Education administration order

--- Later in debate ---
Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I again thank the hon. Gentleman for his remarks and his thoughtful amendment. I not only understand the concerns but, when looking at the Bill in the early stages, asked those questions myself. I hope that I can reassure him. I will answer some parts of what he said and then go into the substance, if I may.

On a point of clarification, it will be for the Secretary of State or the Welsh Minister to decide whether to apply for an education administration order, but they can do so only if the FE body is insolvent in accordance with the definition in clause 17—if it is unable or unlikely to pay the debt. It does not happen automatically.

The hon. Member for Blackpool South will know that insolvency practitioners are very qualified individuals—usually accountants or insolvency specialists. Practitioners with experience in FE and education do exist; I met one only a few days ago who happens to work for the Skills Funding Agency, to talk through these very issues. However, we must make it clear that according to the laws of insolvency, only insolvency practitioners can legally act as office holders in insolvency proceedings—liquidators, administrators and administrative receivers of companies. They are regulated through the Insolvency Act 1986.

The key qualification of the insolvency practitioner to deal with an insolvent college is their expertise with respect to a business or non-profit-making organisation that is insolvent. There are special administrative regimes in other areas such as utilities and the postal service. In addition, they can draw on the knowledge of the governors and staff at the college, and the wider sector. As I said in a previous debate, it is possible—it is most likely—that the insolvent college will have undergone a period of intervention before becoming insolvent, so the education administrator will also be able to consult the Further Education Commissioner. I repeat—I want it to be clear—that we would expect, in an appropriate case, the Education Minister to liaise with the FE Commissioner.

It has also been said that it is inconceivable that the education administrator would take decisions on how to meet the special objective without first having conversations with the range of key stakeholders. Mention has been made of Mr Harris’s evidence to the Committee. He said:

“From an insolvency practitioner’s perspective, it is worth standing back and recognising that insolvency practitioners are not train drivers, or people who spend their life in the railway or the London Underground, when it comes to a special administration regime, nor are they specialist property developers. They come to each situation afresh. One comforting thing that insolvency practitioners bring is recognising when they need to keep in place the existing management structure in a corporate sense, or the workforce in a pastoral sense, recognising that those people have skills and qualifications that they as an office holder do not necessarily have, and also recognising that they can bring outside specialist help to continuing the duties of education administrator, should the need arise. That is all part and parcel of any trading insolvency regime, and I would imagine that any office holder stepping into the role of an education administrator would have that at the forefront of their mind. I do not think it presents a unique challenge; it is very similar to all the other special administration roles. There is an extra dynamic—there is a pastoral element.”––[Official Report, Technical and Further Education Public Bill Committee, 22 November 2016; c. 46, Q60.]

Of course, as Stephen Harris pointed out, when an institution is insolvent, there is a critical need for someone who understands and can deploy the tools necessary to ensure that the education administration is properly managed. Given what I have told the Committee, we expect that that is exactly how the education administrator will operate. Many insolvency practitioners come from big companies that have huge amounts of expertise in a range of fields, including education. The leadership team of the FE body would be in place to provide support on the day-to-day running of the college and information to assist the education administrator in his task of achieving the special objective. So would the Further Education Commissioner and Sixth Form College Commissioner and their teams, and officials in the Department for Education. That is how the interaction between the various bodies highlighted by the hon. Gentleman works.

Of course, the education administrator will be free to seek advice from any other source, but I think that introducing unnecessary requirements as to the appointment of an education administrator would limit the pool of insolvency practitioners from which we could draw, in the event that we needed to use the special administrative regime.

Ranil Jayawardena Portrait Mr Jayawardena
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The Minister is making a very important point. Does he agree that the arguments the hon. Member for Blackpool South outlined earlier about the complexity of such insolvency regimes and the unwinding, possibly, of certain troubles that FE colleges might get into—on rare occasions, as the Minister said—is actually the reason why it is important that insolvency practitioners are the people appointed to deal with these situations, because they are aware of how to deal with these complexities?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend is exactly right, but the crucial thing—I must mention this at almost every opportunity—is that it is unlike when I have seen receivers come in in my constituency who just care about the creditors. If I may just speak personally for a moment, I remember being in a hotel with the staff, some of whom lived on the premises, and the receiver literally said they had to leave on that day, when they had lived there for a long time. This situation is completely different. The whole purpose of this measure is that that kind of individual will not be involved. There will be somebody who has to fulfil the special objective of protecting the students.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I accept that, and for the avoidance of any doubt, and with respect to what the hon. Member for North East Hampshire has just said, I did not at any stage query the fact that it would need to be an insolvency practitioner. The Minister is saying some reassuring things. The only point I would gently make to him is that there is a difference between saying that someone has to acquire a set of skills that might be tested by some mechanism or other, and having a sense of—I think Stephen Harris talked about a “pastoral element”; perhaps I would have said “empathy”, which is possibly the same thing. I am sure that aspect has given the AOC some pause for thought, because I do not know—perhaps the Minister does—how many insolvency experts have the admirable background of the gentleman he met.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The gentleman I met has a direct background, but as Stephen Harris said, that is not necessarily a requirement. However, it is inconceivable that the individuals involved will not have access or that they will not be working with all the relevant institutions. Having said that, they have to be first and foremost an insolvency practitioner, according to the law, but with the special objective.

Given that, I hope that the hon. Gentleman is more reassured and will agree to withdraw the amendment.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

We have had a helpful exchange and it has been useful to probe on this issue and in particular the relationship with the Education Funding Agency. The one point the Minister has not answered—I do not ask him to come back on it now, but it would be useful if he produced a note—is the point that I raised about the different measures of financial performance.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

If the hon. Gentleman is happy for me to do that, I will. We will always require different information to test different issues, for different institution types or in different circumstances. There is a continuous improvement process for the systems and processes for identifying financial risk. The whole function of the area review process is to use it, where relevant, to review the financial management processes. I hope that answers his question some way.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am not entirely sure that it does, but I will not pursue the matter. However, these are technical issues and ones that I am sure the AOC and others may wish to take up with the Minister in a less formal capacity.

I am reassured by what the Minister has said today so far. The organisations may wish to probe further on some of the details, but I am happy to beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 15 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 16 to 21 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 22

General functions of education administrator

Technical and Further Education Bill (Eighth sitting)

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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Committee Debate: 8th sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 1st December 2016

(7 years, 4 months ago)

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Technical and Further Education Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 1 December 2016 - (1 Dec 2016)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

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None Portrait The Chair
- Hansard -

I remind the Committee that with this we are discussing amendment 4, in clause 22, page 10, line 7, leave out “(if possible)”.

This amendment would ensure that the primary concern of the education administrator is the special education administration objective, that is minimising disruption to learners.

Robert Halfon Portrait The Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills (Robert Halfon)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will answer one or two of the questions asked by the hon. Member for Blackpool South. If I understood correctly, he was asking about safeguarding. I assure him that the statutory obligations that apply to colleges will transfer to the special administrator during the special administration period.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned one bank. To clarify, the chap from Santander, Gareth Jones, told the Committee in evidence:

“On the Bill and the proposed insolvency regime, we are actually supportive of the clarity that they provide.”

He also said that

“we are still…looking to grow our exposure to the sector and grow our lending book.”––[Official Report, Technical and Further Education Public Bill Committee, 22 November 2016; c. 38, Q41.]

Later, he said:

“From a risk perspective, when we assess the underlying risk of a transaction, there has always been that uncertainty and we have had to make assumptions in the background. If the Bill is passed, the certainty it will provide is positive for us.”––[Official Report, Technical and Further Education Public Bill Committee, 22 November 2016; c. 41, Q46.]

Different banks have different views on the issue.

Clause 5 and schedule 3 allow the education administrator to dissolve a statutory corporation if no property is left for the creditors’ book, which will usually be after students have had benefit protections from the special objective. The hon. Gentleman will know that there is a special provision in the Bill to protect students with special educational needs, which is important. The education administrator is additionally bound by the duties that apply to the college in relation to SEN students. There is no protection at the moment—nothing.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

This relates to the point we discussed earlier. It is not so much about cost as about distance. The Minister said earlier that the provisions currently allow students to transfer on the basis of up to 75 minutes’ travel time. This cannot be included in the Bill—we are all planning for the worst and hoping for the best—but it should be taken into account that if, for the sake of argument, a college with a significant number of SEN students goes insolvent, it might be possible to ensure that any transport provided is disability friendly. If a college with a relatively small number of SEN students goes insolvent and those students have to travel a fairly long way, it would create additional difficulties. I am not asking for anything to be put in the Bill, but I ask him to take that into account in the guidance notes.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will reflect on that important point, but the Bill makes it clear that the administrator has to protect not only students, but special needs students. The administrator will be under the same obligations as the college in relation to the Equality Act 2010. That is an important part of the Bill.

My hon. Friend the Member for North East Hampshire said that clause 14 is one of the most important in the Bill. Clause 22 is equally important, and it should be considered not in isolation, but in conjunction with clause 14. It is the backbone of the special administrative regime and distinguishes it from ordinary administrative processes. While clause 14 enshrines the overriding purpose of the special administrative regime—the protection of students through the special objective—clause 22 gives the education administrator the power to manage the FE body’s affairs, business and property, and it places a requirement on the education administrator to carry out their functions for the purpose of achieving that objective.

Clause 14 makes it clear that student protection is the primary purpose of the special administrative regime. Reading clauses 14 and 22 together makes it clear that the education administrator’s primary purpose is to achieve the special objective. I hope that explanation reassures the hon. Member for Blackpool South and that he will agree to withdraw the amendment.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful for the Minister’s remarks and for our short exchange on the situation for SEN students. I am particularly grateful to him for emphasising the relationship between clauses 14 and 22. It is important that he has stated in Committee the primary purpose of the education administrator; if in future there are any doubts or concerns about the interpretation of the clause, that will be an important point. I thank him for his response and I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will be very brief. I support my hon. Friend. One of the problems for the FE sector and, even more, for sixth-form colleges is that the whole sector has been bedevilled by decisions being made by people who are unfamiliar with those sectors. Many people involved in politics have come through a school or university environment; they have not been through further education. Many areas do not have sixth-form colleges, so people are not quite sure what they are. It is important that we have people with knowledge of the sector—educationally and organisationally —to make judgments on these matters. I just wanted to support my hon. Friend with those few words.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I appreciate the amendment. I raised these issues in the previous sitting. I go back to the quotation from Stephen Harris, the insolvency expert, who said that

“it is worth standing back and recognising that insolvency practitioners are not train drivers, or people who spend their life in the railway or the London Underground”––[Official Report, Technical and Further Education Bill Public Bill Committee, 22 November 2016; c. 46, Q60.]

Those people are expert insolvency practitioners, but many have some kind of educational link or work for a company that has a good link with and expertise in education.

It would be inconceivable that any education administrator would not consult—I strongly expect them to—key stakeholders, particularly the FE commissioner, student bodies, governors, parents and any relevant sponsor or other stakeholder involved with an insolvent college. That is expected as a matter of course, but I will reflect on what the hon. Member for Blackpool South said. On those grounds, I hope that he is happy to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---
Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for underlining that point and giving that practical example of a personal issue. Perhaps I can be forgiven for mentioning that the shadow Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner), has herself strongly expressed how crucial further education was to her during her teens. She said on Second Reading that she would not have been there to present our view on the Bill had she not had that experience, when she was in that vulnerable situation as a teenager.

There are groups of people who must particularly be thought about in this context. We discussed care leavers on another occasion, and the difficulties that many of them face, but it seems particularly appropriate to discuss them again in the context of the amendment. In their apprenticeship funding proposals last month, the Government recognised that apprentices aged 19 to 24 who had previously been in care, or who had had a local authority education, health and care plan, might need extra support. The majority of respondents to their survey supported that—more than twice as many providers agreed with the proposal than disagreed. The Government have pledged in the proposals to give extra funding to employers who take on someone who was previously in care or had a local authority education, health and care plan. We applaud that as a good start, but it is important to think about legislating further and to guarantee that other necessary steps are taken to ensure that access and opportunity are available to care leavers.

Looked-after children often achieve less highly at GCSE, as my hon. Friends have noted, partly because they may have a chaotic family background or a history of abuse. The Special Educational Consortium stated in written evidence that young people who have a care plan at age 15 are more than twice as likely not to be in education, employment or training at 18. Barnardo’s said:

“These young people often leave school with few or no qualifications and need alternative options outside of the school environment if they are to achieve their potential. Some need provision that allows them to catch up on what they have missed. These young people also often want the option of practical-based learning that clearly links to a real job.”

While we are on the subject of care leavers, how does the Minister envisage the proposals to support apprentices, and the proposals that we would like to see taken on board more generally in respect of care leavers, linking up with the work done in the children’s services section of the Department for Education? In particular, what discussions has he had about the Bill with his hon. Friend the Minister for Vulnerable Children and Families, the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Edward Timpson), or his officials? I have credited him before for the assiduousness with which that part of the Department introduced the responsibility up to the age of 25.

The amendment also includes parents and carers, who for numerous reasons might be particularly affected by changes to their study arrangements. They may have particular arrangements for their children or dependants that might not be addressed by simply transferring them to another college. What happens if the college to which they are transferred is not as near to their children’s school? What if the new institution’s timetabling disrupts routines for those they care for, or their ability to be there for their children? What if potential increases in travel costs negatively affect the carefully planned budgets of those with caring responsibilities, affecting both their access to education and the care that they can provide to their own children and loved ones?

There will be others with particular needs, which is why the amendment has flexibility built into it to accommodate them. For all those reasons, the education administrator’s decisions must be carefully thought through, so we feel that it is important to require the administrator to do so. I know that there is a school of thought that says any decent education administrator, given the background, qualifications, empathy and pastoral issues to which the Minister referred, would do so, but I do not think that it reflects doubt about the good intentions of particular people in particular circumstances to say that they might be beset by a series of difficult decisions and priorities, probably within a relatively constrained period of time. It does not indicate that people would not think about the groups concerned. It is important in that pressurised situation that they are reminded of the importance of those particular groups. That is the basis on which we have brought forward the amendment.

As my hon. Friends have said, those groups already face challenges and barriers to education that it can be difficult for others even to imagine. I can imagine some of it. That is not from the perspective of being a teacher or tutor in further education, but from my perspective of having been a part-time course tutor with the Open University for nearly 20 years. I do not think I had many care leavers, but I certainly had people who were carers and who came into other distinct categories. I marvelled at the determination with which they took forward their studies under some trying and difficult circumstances. I believe that our proposal is the right thing to do, and I would welcome the Minister’s thoughts on whether the Bill needs to say rather more about the particular needs of these groups of students.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am going to do the opposite to the hon. Gentleman: I will talk about the broad thrust and then answer the specific issues. I thank him again for his thoughtful contribution. I have already explained that we are introducing protection for students in the unlikely event that their college or provider becomes insolvent. The special objective will require the education administrator to take action to avoid or minimise disruption to their studies, by whatever means they consider appropriate.

However, the Government recognise that the education administrator might find it harder to find, or will need to think more carefully about, suitable alternative provision for those students with special educational needs, compared with the general student body. We do not want those students to be disproportionately affected by the exceptional event of college or provider insolvency, which is why we have placed a requirement on the education administrator —set out in clause 22(3)—to have particular regard to their needs.

We have had a lot of preliminary discussions about SEN students, because two thirds of care leavers are SEN students. We included provision for SEN in the Bill because of the particular difficulties such students face. There might be the need for specialist equipment or adaptations to teaching, or there might be a transport issue, and it is a requirement that the education administrator considers those in developing their proposals.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Will the Minister give way?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will answer the hon. Gentleman’s points. If he wants to raise a different point, I am happy to answer it, but I ask him to have faith in me. I have tried to answer questions as much as I can all the way through.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am not suggesting that the Minister has not.

--- Later in debate ---
Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I need to set this important issue in context. We already make good special provision available for post-16 education. Care leavers are a priority group for access to the vulnerable student bursary, which provides financial assistance. Care leavers receive yearly bursaries of up to £1,200—it is pro rata for part-timers. As care leavers, their eligibility for that support will not change, even if they are transferred to another provider as part of a college insolvency.

Alongside the vulnerable student bursary is the 16 to 19 bursary fund, which I discussed earlier. It is a discretionary fund targeted at young people and allocated to schools, colleges and training providers, which make awards to students. It is up to the college to define eligibility criteria, because it will know the needs of its students best. It is targeted support at a local level.

I am pleased to say that the Government have changed the law to improve how young carers and their families are identified and supported. For the first time, young carers have the right to an assessment of their need, no matter who they care for, the type of care they provide or how often they provide it. The assessment will consider their educational needs and will not be affected in the scenario where the student has to transfer college providers.

In answer to the specific question about care leavers, as the hon. Member for Blackpool South has pointed out, at this stage we have not included the requirement for the education administrator to take account of the needs of care leavers. As I have said, it is an issue that I will reflect on seriously.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The Minister has been very helpful, and I appreciate that, but before he concludes, I have a definitional question that I think relates to what he has been saying. Subsection (7) refers to “special educational provision” and subsection (6) refers to a student with “special educational needs”. I have heard everything he has said about young carers, but is it his understanding that young carers or care leavers would automatically come under those categories? I know this is a narrow point, but it is quite important, because it influences whether further definition is necessary in the Bill.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

No. It applies only to what is classed in statutory terms as an SEN student. That is why I have acknowledged that college insolvency is disruptive, especially to SEN students and care leavers. By the way, I should say that it was very gracious of the hon. Gentleman to mention the apprentice funding to make sure that care leavers are employed as apprentices, which is something I care deeply about. I am glad that he acknowledged that funding.

I want more time to reflect on what more might be done in the context of a college insolvency, to ensure that the Government live up to their promise of being an effective corporate parent. I will reflect on that.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to the Minister for that and for his promise to reflect on this issue and on the catch-alls in the clause as drafted. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---
Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Briefly, we have had some useful exchanges on the amendments, which I have been content to withdraw. I am broadly very pleased and satisfied with the points the Minister has made.

However, as I have said before, if this process—the Bill, the new institute, the new insolvency clauses—is to be a success, it is incumbent upon us to take as large a group of people from across the stakeholders with us as possible. I want to refer to a couple of issues that the Association of School and College Leaders and the Association of Employment and Learning Providers have raised in their written evidence. As the Minister knows, the ASCL in particular is quite critical of part 2 of the Bill because it thinks it is the result of rushed consultation. That is for others to judge, but the point it makes in its written evidence, which I would like a response to, is this:

“FE and sixth form colleges were created as exempt charities by Act of Parliament… As such college corporations cannot resolve to remove their charitable status. ASCL…is concerned that applying aspects of the Insolvency Act that applies to companies runs the risk of jeopardising that status. The Charities Commission does not appear on the list of those consulted…The primary duty of a corporation/governing body is to maintain the solvency of its college. Where it fails in that duty by negligence or worse, the Charities Commission has the power to investigate and bar governors/trustees from further service.”

If the Minister is able to, I would ask him to address that issue from the ASCL.

The AELP makes another point about the status of colleges. It believes that

“this reclassification should be reviewed by the ONS. This is not merely a technical point. Some colleges have reportedly used their current ‘independent’ status to resist Area Review proposals which is well within their right. However, when AELP has argued that the Government is using a form of state aid to assist colleges…we have been told by the SFA that colleges are ‘community assets’ which justifies the further injection of public funding. The insolvency measures in this Bill would…appear to place colleges very much back in the public sector.”

It says that this has become a “murky area”.

Those are two specific observations from two important stakeholders in the area. In the context of the clause, given everything else that we have been talking about in terms of the general function of the educational administrator, I would be grateful if the Minister would comment on those points.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will give a brief response. The Charity Commission does not appear in the list of respondents because it did not submit a formal written response. However, we worked very closely with it during the development of the proposals in the Bill.

Charities that are companies and charitable incorporated organisations are all covered by insolvency legislation, and the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986 regime for disqualification applies to those organisations. The Charity Commission has been fully supportive of the approach that we have taken and sees it as being in line with the approach taken for trustees of charitable companies and charitable incorporated organisations.

With regard to the AELP, the process of implementing a SAR would not automatically mean reclassification for an individual college, let alone the entire sector, because the Government would not be directly influencing the college’s corporate policy.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 22 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 23

Transfer schemes

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move amendment 7, in clause 23, page 10, line 31, at end insert—

“(2) The education administrator may not transfer assets of any further education body to a private company where he or she considers that more than half of the funding of the acquisition of the asset came from public funds.”.

This amendment would ensure further education bodies with a track record of accruing assets publicly, could not be transferred to a private company.

We come to an amendment that is longer than the clause it seeks to amend. That might suggest that the amendment is otiose, but I do not think it is; I think the clause ought to have been expanded a little more— but then I would say that. I want to focus some attention, at a certain length, on this issue. On our side of the Committee, that raises some really big issues about what would happen to the transfer of assets from a further education body to a private company.

Information produced by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills on the dissolution of an FE corporation specified that assets should be transferred only to charitable bodies:

“The Secretary of State and the CESF are concerned with the appropriate use of those capital assets that have been acquired/developed/redeveloped with public funding and the conditions for their transfer and usage…FE corporations are advised to undertake early discussions with the Skills Funding Agency to identify the relevant assets and any potential repayment of some, or all of the associated grant or proceeds of sale…The regulations include a requirement that the FE Corporation publish the proposed arrangements for the transfer of the property, rights and liabilities of the FE Corporation…The Dissolution of Further Education Corporations and Sixth Form Colleges Corporations (Prescribed Bodies) Regulations 2012”—

that would have been an interesting secondary legislation Committee to sit on—

“lists the bodies to which an FE Corporation can transfer its property rights and liabilities upon its dissolution. It is expected that all transfers should be made to charitable bodies, and for the purpose of education.”

It is on that point that I want to focus my remarks on the amendment. The document continues:

“Where the bodies are not charities then it must be transferred in accordance with the charitable purposes of the trust.”

It then links to a whole list of prescribed bodies to which assets could be transferred, including sixth-form colleges and governing bodies.

The point I start from is that to say it is “expected” that all transfers should be made to charitable bodies is not the same as saying it is “required”.

--- Later in debate ---
Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I strongly support my hon. Friend’s case. This is something that I am alarmed about. The reality was that, at incorporation, hundreds of thousands of acres and hundreds of buildings were transferred without charge from the local authority and incorporated in bodies that still seemed to be essentially in the public sector and were still largely funded by it—sixth-form colleges are entirely funded by the public sector. The idea that they could be sold off to speculators for profit, with development value acquired and millions of pounds made, is completely unacceptable. If anyone ought to have that asset, it is the public sector: either local authorities or a central Government Department. If they so choose to sell land off, at an appropriate value—if it has planning permission for housing or whatever—that development value should accrue to the public purse as well.

I have some experience and, as always, knowledge of what has been happening recently. Indeed, one college had a large area of land associated with it that had been a sports field that was still used for sports but was also a local leisure amenity. The principal wanted to sell that land off for housing development, making a vast amount of profit, and the implication was that he might have benefited personally. He was known to be assiduous in making sure his pocket was well filled. I think he managed to pay himself the highest salary of any college principal in the country even though his was not one of the largest colleges. Be that as it may, he eventually left in some disgrace and the college is now recovering, but selling off land for personal profit was a temptation that clearly affected him.

The principal was also building an academy chain by getting schools to become academies and then trying to get them into his ambit. It is interesting that two of the schools had land attached, and when, some way through the deal, it was decided that he could have the schools but not the associated land, he lost interest in getting them into his academy chain. It was clear that he was interested in the land associated with those schools, not in the education of the children, the success of schools or whatever. When big money is involved, college principals and others involved in college life can be tempted by the prospect of substantial personal financial gain. That has to be guarded against, and the way we do that is by ensuring that the assets stay in the public sector and that any benefit, financial or otherwise, accrues to the public sector.

The amendment therefore goes some way towards what I would like to see, and I will certainly support it should my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool South press it to a vote, but I think we ought to go further and ensure that those kinds of practices cannot happen. We are talking about public assets, built up by the public sector over decades, if not scores of years or generations, and to see them simply handed over to private speculators without any benefit to the public sector is absolutely unacceptable.

We have to separate out capital assets from revenue costs. Revenue costs become too great if students disappear or the college is not being run efficiently and so on. We can deal with that. Capital assets, on the other hand, should be treated as precious and retained for the public sector and for public benefit; they should not be for the benefit of property speculators who could make millions, if not billions, out of such assets across the country, if allowed to do so.

With those few words, I express my strong support for the amendment. I hope that at some point the Government will recognise this issue so that we can go further and make the principles behind the amendment even stronger in legislation, whether in this Bill or in others.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Opposition for the amendment and the hon. Member for Luton North for his contribution. I will make a couple of general points before I go on to the specifics.

As has been observed, and I repeat, without the Bill there is no protection for students or from the seizure of college assets. The hon. Gentleman talked about hundreds of millions in government funding, but the general point is that college insolvency is likely to be a very rare event, so the portion of government assets that might transfer to a private sector company is likely to be small. The priority, as I say, has to be protecting students. Such a transfer is right if the education administrator is fulfilling his special objective and believes that it protects the students if he has the ability to do so.

On solvent dissolution, assets must go to a charity that has educational purposes. In insolvency in a special administrative regime, transfers go to bodies prescribed in regulations, all educational, which can include private education providers, or, as the hon. Gentlemen will be pleased to know, local authorities. As the FE Minister, I always have colleagues coming to me with suggestions about how the local authority might be involved with the FE college.

The Bill is not about private providers; it is about statutory bodies and companies that run designated FE institutions—that is, designated by the Secretary of State. For independent training providers offering provision to those with advanced learner loans, there must be a register of training organisations, they must have at least satisfactory financial health, they must pass capacity and capability requirements, and they have to have evidence of, and a track record in, education and skills delivery.

To go back to the question asked by the hon. Member for Batley and Spen, transfer schemes are a feature of other special administrative regimes. They allow for assets to be transferred to another body without the agreement of a third party which would otherwise be necessary—for example, leases without the consent of the landlord. That means that the scheme can be used to prevent a third party from blocking a transfer that is intended to facilitate the achievement of the special objective. The special administration regime’s delivery of the public policy objective—in this case the protection of students—should not be subject to third-party agreement. The education administrator will use a transfer scheme only if that is necessary to achieve the special objective.

It is important to note that the Secretary of State must approve any such scheme before it is used. Even if the education administrator does not use a transfer scheme, it is open to the Secretary of State to challenge the administrator if he or she feels that the administrator is not performing his or her duty to protect students.

Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

A thought occurs to me. If charitable organisations were brought into play, would it not be possible for assets to remain publicly owned but be allocated to such organisations on a rental basis rather than an ownership basis?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

We are looking at cases of insolvency. We have the protection of students at heart, but we also want to be fair to creditors. I am passionate about the Bill because I believe it assures the protection of students, but I acknowledge that we have to be fair to creditors as well, and I do not think that would be the case if we did what the hon. Gentleman suggests, although in an ideal world that would of course be a lovely thing to be able to do.

The FE body itself cannot be sold. It is a statutory body. If it is insolvent and must therefore close, the protection of students must come first; the sale of the asset would be to protect students first and creditors second.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am listening carefully to the Minister. He has just said that the FE body cannot be sold and the assets must be dealt with in the way that he has described. The problem is that this is not necessarily a question of the FE body being sold. For the sake of argument, to take the example that my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North used, there may be an asset with substantial land attached that was originally a public asset, and that could be disposed of as part and parcel of the process of trying to resolve an insolvency without that actually involving the dissolution of the FE body. I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me that there is nothing in principle to stop that happening. In those circumstances, a part-asset could be transferred that was not the whole of the FE body but perhaps represented tens of millions of pounds of value.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The assets currently are not publicly owned; they are owned by the FE body, which has significant operational independence, and are for the educational purposes of the FE body. Valuable land that is sold in the way that the hon. Gentleman describes has to be sold for the purpose of the special objective. I am involved at the moment in a case where an institution wants to sell for housing land that is, in my view, meant to be for FE use. He probably knows the case. We are clear that that land is for the educational purposes of the students. That is our belief.

I have covered most of the hon. Gentleman’s points. I would not be so down on private providers; there are examples of good private providers. Let us take the example of SEN students, whom we talked about earlier. It may be better for those students if the education administrator were able to transfer the students and facilities to a private body if that was the only one available. That would minimise the disruption to them, and their studies could continue uninterrupted at the same location. Sometimes, to have the private sector involved is a good thing, as long as private organisations, as I say, are properly inspected and registered and have a good record of education. I hope that I have been able to assure the hon. Gentleman that there will be no haemorrhaging of publicly funded assets to the private sector and he will agree to withdraw his amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

Division 2

Ayes: 5


Labour: 5

Noes: 8


Conservative: 6

Clause 23 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
--- Later in debate ---
Conduct of education administration: statutory corporations
Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move amendment 20, in schedule 3, page 33, line 4, leave out “and”.

This amendment and amendment 21 are intended to make it clear that, where the context requires, a reference to the director of a company in the insolvency legislation applied by Schedule 3 can be read as a reference to a person who is a member of the further education body or the principal of the relevant institution rather than both. The purpose of amendments 22 and 23, which relate to references to an officer of a company, is similar.

None Portrait The Chair
- Hansard -

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 21 to 23.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The amendments are minor and technical in nature, and are intended to address a minor drafting error relating to general modifications to the provisions of the Insolvency Act 1986 related to the special administrative regime. These general modifications are set out in a table in paragraph 2 of schedule 3. Schedule 3 applies to further education bodies that are statutory corporations. Paragraph 2 makes general modifications to the provisions of the Insolvency Act 1986 relating to administration to apply them to FE bodies in special administration.

The effect of the two modifications currently leads to uncertainty about which post the relevant person should hold or have held in order for the provision to apply to that person. The minor error we identified was that, in short, we have used “and” when we should have used “or”. In more detail, as drafted, the general modifications provide that “director” is to mean “(a) member…and (b) principal”. We want the director to be “(a) member…or (b) principal”, unless the context requires otherwise.

Similarly, as drafted, the modifications in the table provide that “officer” is to mean “(a) member…(b) clerk…(c) chief executive…and (d) any senior post holder”. We want “officer” to mean “(a) member…(b) clerk…(c) chief executive… or (d) any senior post holder”, unless the context requires otherwise. These are minor and technical amendments and I hope the Committee agrees to them.

I have always wanted to read an amendment like that. [Laughter.]

Amendment 20 agreed to.

Amendments made: 21, in schedule 3, page 33, line 6, at end insert “, or

(c) if the context requires, both of the above.”.



See Member’s explanatory statement to amendment 20.

Amendment 22, in schedule 3, page 33, line 14, leave out “and”.

See Member’s explanatory statement to amendment 20.

Amendment 23, in schedule 3, page 33, line 17, at end insert “, or

(e) if the context requires, all of the above.”.—(Robert Halfon.)



See Member’s explanatory statement to amendment 20.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move amendment 24, in schedule 3, page 36, line 10, leave out “(3)” and “insert “(4)”.

This amendment corrects a cross-reference.

None Portrait The Chair
- Hansard -

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendment 25.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

We have been clear that although the purpose of the education administration is to avoid or minimise disruption to students’ studies, the special objective is not to be pursued without regard to the interests of creditors. Clause 22, which we have previously discussed, contains a requirement for the education administrator to carry out their functions to achieve the special objective and, so far as is consistent with the special objective, to do so in a way that achieves the best result for the FE body’s creditors as a whole.

If creditors, the Secretary of State or Welsh Ministers believe that the education administrator is not acting in accordance with this requirement, the amendment made by paragraph 21 of schedule 3 to paragraph 74 of schedule 1B to the Insolvency Act 1986 allows them to apply to the court claiming that the education administrator is not carrying out their functions in accordance with requirements set out in clause 22. However, there is an error in the cross-referencing. The reference should be to sections 22(2) and 22(4), not sections 22(2) and 22(3).

Without the amendment, creditors would be unable to challenge the way in which the education administrator was carrying out their functions, which is not what we intend. I hope the Committee agrees that the amendment is necessary for the provisions to function effectively, and that it will agree to accept it.

Amendment 24 agreed to

Amendment made: 25, in schedule 3, page 36, line 34, leave out “(3)” and “insert “(4)”.—(Robert Halfon.)

This amendment corrects a cross-reference.

Schedule 3, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule 4

Conduct of education administration: companies

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move amendment 26, in schedule 4, page 44, line 6, leave out “(4)” and “insert “(5)”.

This amendment corrects a cross-reference.

None Portrait The Chair
- Hansard -

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendment 27.

--- Later in debate ---
Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The amendments are the same in effect as amendments 24 and 25, which we have just made to schedule 3. You will be pleased to hear, Mr Bailey, that I do not propose to take the Committee through the changes again. I am sure that once was enough. It is necessary to make the amendment twice because schedule 3 relates to FE bodies, which are statutory corporations, and schedule 4 relates to those that are companies.

Amendment 26 agreed to.

Amendment made: 27, in schedule 4, page 44, line 32, leave out “(3)” and “insert “(5)”—(Robert Halfon.)

This amendment corrects a cross-reference.

Schedule 4, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 25 to 29 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 30

Education administration rules

--- Later in debate ---
Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I rise to speak very briefly about this clause and clause 37, both of which I want to put in the context of the broad policy statement that we have been given on part 2 of the Bill, which is pertinent to many of the questions that we and people in the sector have been asking about the capacity of the DFE and the institute to expand the remit of the Bill. That is no less true in the context of the insolvency proceedings than it is in the remainder of the Bill.

Page 4 of the policy statement says that it has not been possible to prepare draft regulations during the passage of the Bill—I feel somewhat conflicted about this, because part of me is rather glad that we did not have to consider the regulations, which may, and I quote, run to hundreds of pages in total. Instead, the Government have prepared a series of detailed notes describing every delegated power and setting out how they plan to use them. According to the Government, it was not possible to produce the full list of the regulations for us now. I say gently that they will have to be produced at some point, even if not for the delectation of members of this Committee. Does that not raise questions about the capacity of the Department? What happens when the Bill becomes an Act? Who will have the capacity to draft the regulations then? I hope the Minister does not think that is an entirely flippant comment. The assurances we have been given about capacity throughout the passage of the Bill do not appear to be piecing together.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I assure the hon. Gentleman that the regulations will be published; the problem is that there are many pages of insolvency legislation. That is why we were unable to publish them in time for the Committee and why we issued the policy statement. They will be published, but it takes quite a long time.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I entirely understand that. I was not suggesting that people are slothing on the job; I was merely making the reasonable point that the Bill necessarily involves a lot of administrative time—I put it no stronger than that—and that raises in my mind some ongoing concerns about the capacity, either of the Department or of some of its institutions, to take some of these things forward. I will leave it at that.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

All I can say is that my hon. Friend is a shining example to us all. He shames us deeply.

Let me make my own brief and pathetic response to clause 30, in the context of the Stakhanovite task that my hon. Friend has just suggested we undertake. I have a practical question for the Minister. On clause 31, the policy note talks about the way in which the power will be used to make decisions. For simplicity, I say to the Minister that although I am making this point specifically about clause 30—it affects chapter 4, which is very important because it is the special administration chapter —my question is generic and may be relevant to other clauses as well. It is very straightforward. When these revised instruments and regulation-making powers are brought forward, will there be consultation in any shape or form with the various stakeholders—FE bodies, the Association of Colleges, the Collab Group and others?

That is not for the sake of consultation itself. There have been occasions in the past, although I am not suggesting in this particular Department or area, when the lack of such consultation on detailed regulations between representative bodies—it normally has to be done at that level—and officials from the Department has produced anomalies that subsequently have to be rectified. It would be interesting to hear if the Minister can offer any reassurance on that.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his remarks. On Tuesday, the hon. Member for Luton North suggested that he might have been a banker, and today he talks about being an expert on delegated legislation on insolvency. I believe the latter more than the former. Knowing the kind of person he is, he is probably about the only person who could get his head round all the different delegated powers.

The clause modifies the power to make rules under sections 4 and 1 of the Insolvency Act 1986. It allows detailed rules about the education administration for FE bodies to be made in the same way as they are for companies. The power only permits rules to be made to give effect to the chapter of the Bill that establishes an SAR or FE bodies, and the rules cannot be made for any wider purpose. Clause 5 deals with the rules needed for other insolvency procedures for FE colleges. It applies the company insolvency rules and allows us to modify them as necessary.

To answer the question from the hon. Member for Blackpool South, there has been a significant amount of consultation already, and there will be full consultation all the way through. We have to; these things cannot be done without it. I want to reassure him that that will absolutely happen. On those grounds, I hope the clause is acceptable to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 30 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 31 to 36 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 37

Disqualification of officers

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move amendment 8, in clause 37, page 18, line 14, at end insert—

‘(1A) The Secretary of State must ensure the list of disqualified officers is made publicly available.”

This amendment would ensure that a list of disqualified officers was publicly available.

The amendment is fairly straightforward, so I will not detain the Committee long. Again, we hope that these situations will be very rare, and we certainly hope it will be very rare that people are disqualified as a result of them. However, if disqualified people are involved, the principle of transparency is extremely important. This is a probing amendment, to find out how this might be effective.

Perhaps it is worth mentioning what the explanatory notes say about clause 37:

“This clause gives the Secretary of State the power, in relation to further education corporations and sixth form college corporations, to make regulations that have the same or similar effect to the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986. This will mean that, like company directors, members (i.e. governors) of those corporations can be disqualified from acting as such in the future and the power allows the Secretary of State to make provision so that when a person is disqualified as a director of a company they can also be prohibited from acting as a member of a further education corporation or sixth form college corporation.”

I repeat that we all hope and assume that these occurrences will be irregular. However, would it not be logical for the list of disqualified officers to be made publicly available, to ensure transparency and to allow colleges to easily assess applicants to their own corporations in the future?

Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I support the amendment. In my experience of life, it is often the rogues who are most plausible and we have to have lists of people to make sure that people do not get through the net, move to a different part of the country and take up a job, before we find out that they have twice been a rogue, not just once.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The disqualified officers to whom the amendment refers are those members of an FE body that is a statutory corporation who have been disqualified by the court on the grounds that they have been found liable by the court of wrongful or fraudulent trading or other similar offences under the Insolvency Act 1986 as applied by the Bill. Wrongful and fraudulent trading are provisions of insolvency law that will be applied to governors and others involved in running FE bodies that are statutory corporations in the same way as they apply to directors of, and those who run, companies. That is the purpose of the amendment.

It is right that a list is kept of those individuals who have been disqualified and that such a list is available to the public, so that it is evident which individuals should not be appointed as governors of colleges in the future. However, there is no need to provide for that specifically in the Bill. There is provision in the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986 for a register of disqualification orders to be kept by the Secretary of State and for that register to be open to inspection—as we continue to refer to that Act, I propose that we use its acronym, the CDDA.

Clause 37 will allow us to replicate provisions of the CDDA; therefore it already allows us to achieve what hon. Members seek with the amendment. I have made it clear that I intend to consult on secondary legislation made under the Bill. That includes regulations made under clause 37, so it will be transparent that we will include a provision in regulations that is the same as, or similar to, the provision that exists in the CDDA, modifying it as necessary to make it work effectively for disqualified members of college corporations. On those grounds, I hope that the hon. Member for Blackpool South will feel able to withdraw the amendment.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for that explanation of the procedure and situation. I am satisfied and beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 37 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 38

Information for Secretary of State about further education

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move amendment 18, in clause 38, page 18, line 38, leave out subsection (2).

This amendment removes the restriction on the Secretary of State obtaining information for purposes connected with the education of certain people aged under 25. The way that section 54 of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992 is currently framed allows that information to be obtained so the amendment preserves this aspect of the current law.

None Portrait The Chair
- Hansard -

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendment 19.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The purpose of the amendment is to rectify a problem that we have identified with the drafting of clause 38 that means that it does not fully meet our policy intent. Amendment 19 is consequential on amendment 18 and simply renumbers subsections.

Our aim is to ensure that the Government can maintain our current system of receiving data from further education providers after certain further education functions are devolved to some combined authority areas in England, which is due to happen from 2018. A key element of the statutory foundation for the further education data system is set out in section 54 of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992, which clause 38 amends. Section 54 imposes a duty on various bodies to provide information to the Secretary of State. Due to its specific reference to functions of the Secretary of State, that duty would cease to apply to some FE provision, as certain functions would have been transferred from the Secretary of State as part of devolution. The intention of clause 38 is to reframe the statutory basis to overcome that problem and enable comprehensive continuation of the current system of gathering information on further education.

We are not seeking to narrow or broaden the scope of education provision or types of learners covered by the duty. Clause 38(2) was drafted because we considered that the learners it describes—those aged 19 to 25 who have an education, health and care plan—were not captured by the duty under section 54. However, after further scrutiny, we have realised that for apprenticeship provision, such learners are in fact in scope of the current duty. Therefore, by including the subsection we were inadvertently narrowing the scope of the duty. That is not our intention, so we are seeking to remove subsection (2).

--- Later in debate ---
Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I congratulate my hon. Friend on speaking to the new clause with his customary insight and from past experience, which are powerful advocates for the mechanisms he proposes. There are not many vehicles in the House for the regular praising of accountants. I am tempted to say that if we were in the middle ages and my hon. Friend, with the passing of years, were to pass away, he might be subject to a posthumous cult of the patron saint of accountants. The serious point is that everything my hon. Friend said is valid. Whether what he proposes is done in a formal way, as he suggests, or by strong direction, the Government would do well to take on board his proposals.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Member for Luton North for the new clauses and for his wise contributions throughout the Committee. Rather than the role of banker, I think he has taken on the role of the Gandalf of the technical education and further education sector. There will therefore be no danger of his passing as the hon. Member for Blackpool South described.

The hon. Member for Luton North has tabled two important new clauses. In an ideal world it would be a good thing if all or even some members of governing bodies had important financial qualifications, but I remind him that the head of Blackpool and The Fylde College, when asked about that, said:

“I am thinking of the unintended consequences. It is very easy to say that we can dictate exactly the constitution of a governing body, but if we are looking at further education corporations across the country, some of them are very different. My own, for example, is an outstanding college.”—

I have seen it for myself, and it certainly is—

“We are very strong financially…we benefit from the mix and balance that we have on the board: we benefit from our business community and from two very able students on the board. I am hesitant about mandating exactly what that board would look like, because it varies by college. If, for example, I were a land-based college, I might want a slightly different mix, so I am hesitant about fully supporting that.”––[Official Report, Technical and Further Education Public Bill Committee, 22 November 2016; c. 60, Q80.]

When I asked her about the best way to achieve what she had done, she said what is needed is an expert to manage finances: not necessarily, dare I say it, someone with an educational background—we were talking about the education administrator earlier—but someone with a good understanding of finances. Where colleges are doing better even with all the financial pressures, I suspect that is because they have brilliant financial teams as well as the brilliant leadership of the principals and the advice of the governing body.

It is the governing body of the college that is best placed to ensure that effective management is in place that meets the needs of the college, but it must be the principal who puts her team in who has the day-to-day responsibilities. When colleges fail, as the hon. Gentleman will know, the proper intervention system is in place, with the education commissioner and suchlike.

The introduction of the insolvency regime will change a lot of this anyway, and it will serve to emphasise the importance of sound financial management. Although the Government are committed to the protection of learners, corporations are ultimately responsible for ensuring the financial health of their institutions.

I am wary of imposing such a measure, but I have a lot of genuine sympathy with the hon. Gentleman’s intentions. I commit to continue working with the sector to strengthen the financial acumen of governing bodies and the capability of financial directors. That will protect the interests of not only the colleges, learners and employers in the local communities but the taxpayer, which is incredibly important. On that basis, I hope the hon. Gentleman will withdraw the motion.

Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for his assurances and for his acceptance of the points I have made, if not of the new clauses. Even if nothing arrives in the Bill, I hope that guidance to colleges will, in one form or another, make sure that proper financial governance and financial management takes place so that insolvency is avoided at all possible costs.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I should have said that we are lucky in the sense that we have the Association of Colleges, the Collab Group and the Education and Training Foundation, and all those organisations are doing everything they can to improve financial leadership in colleges up and down the country.

Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

On a point of order, Mr Bailey. As we have reached the end of the Bill—in Committee, at least—I would like to put several things on the record. First, I thank the Opposition for the incredibly thoughtful and serious way in which they have dealt with the Bill. Where I have said that I will reflect on things, I really mean that. I particularly congratulate my opposite number, the hon. Member for Blackpool South, given that he has just come out of another huge Bill; he did this Bill almost straightaway. His capacity for knowledge is extraordinary. What the hon. Member for Batley and Spen said about careers is particularly important, and I also thank the hon. Member for Luton North for his contributions.

May I also thank you and your team, Mr Bailey, and my Government colleagues, who have been incredibly helpful and supportive? Finally, I mentioned capacity—over the past couple of weeks, the incredible officials and many others have worked day and night to get this Bill to the House and into Committee, and I am hugely grateful to them.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Further to that point of order, Mr Bailey. May I associate myself with the Minister’s thanks to you and Ms Dorries? You have chaired fairly and lightly. I also thank your team—particularly the Public Bill Clerks, to whom the Opposition are always indebted, given that we do not have the Government’s resources.

May I thank my own superb team for everything that they have done? I am sorry that my on-the-ball Whip, my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull East, is unable to be with us today, but he is at the forefront of industrial progress celebrating Siemens wind farms finally coming to fruition in his constituency, so he has a good excuse. I am grateful to all of my team, in which we have two relatively new Members—particularly my hon. Friend the Member for Batley and Spen—and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East for deputising.

I also thank the Minister and his team. He has been generous and prepared to listen and think carefully and constructively, and we welcome that. We look forward to some of the amendments we have withdrawn perhaps re-emerging in further information from him before Report stage. We are delighted to have taken part in this process and grateful for his contributions and constructivity.

Bill, as amended, to be reported.

Technical and Further Education Bill

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

Read Full debate
3rd reading: House of Commons & Legislative Grand Committee: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Monday 9th January 2017

(7 years, 3 months ago)

Commons Chamber
Technical and Further Education Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: Consideration of Bill Amendments as at 9 January 2017 - (9 Jan 2017)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Robert Halfon Portrait The Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills (Robert Halfon)
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I think this is the first time that a lapel microphone has been used in this way—I appreciate that. I wish the House, and the many apprentices who worked over Christmas and the new year, a very happy new year. I thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for chairing the debate. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Blackpool South (Gordon Marsden) for his amendments—as ever, very thoughtful.

I will start by discussing new clause 1, but I just want to make the point that the hon. Gentleman talked about the completion of apprenticeships. Some 70% of apprentices complete and 90% get either employment or further training. We have nearly 900,000 apprentices, an all-time high and a record in our nation’s history, so we are making good progress. He talked about NEETs. He will know that between 2014 and 2015 the proportion of 16 to 18-year-olds in education or work-based learning increased to 90%, which is the highest on record. The percentage of NEETs fell to 6.5%, the lowest rate since records began. He talked about the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education appointments and went on, yet again, about Christmas. I have to say that IFATE is not just for Christmas, it is for life and we want to get it right. We want to ensure that the appointments we make are the right ones and are not made in haste. He sometimes says that we are doing things too quickly and at other times he says that we are doing things too slowly.

On new clause 1, as I explained in Committee, the institute will be required to report on its activities annually under schedule 4 to the Enterprise Act 2016, and the report must be placed before Parliament. That provision will also allow the Secretary of State to ask the institute to report on anything else she thinks appropriate, such as the information requested in the amendment. We think it would be an unnecessary and significant duplication of effort, as the information is already collected and published by the Secretary of State on the performance of the FE sector, which includes apprentices—I gave the hon. Gentleman some of the figures only a moment ago.

Much of that information goes far beyond the role of the institute. The institute’s core role from April 2017 is to oversee and quality assure the development of standards and assessment plans for use in delivering apprenticeships. Under the reforms in the Bill, college-based technical education cannot be held wholly responsible for, for example, job outcomes and wage rates of apprentices once they complete their apprenticeships. It is essential that the institute is aware of the impact it is making. We would expect it to make good use of the data on the outcomes made available to it through these public data sources and surveys, and to explain in its annual report how it has deployed them.

Rob Marris Portrait Rob Marris
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I am grateful to the Minister for the work he does. He is very committed—whenever I see him he is wearing an “A” on his lapel to show his support for apprenticeships. Will he clarify one point in relation to new clause 1(2)(e), which would include in the report the satisfaction rates of employers? He will be aware that there is some concern that to reach the 3 million target there will be dilution. I am not saying there will be, but that there is concern that there might be. Is the satisfaction rate of employers currently collected —not for every employer, but through sampling—and published? If it is not, it would be very important for it to be published, so that the concerns about a dilution of standards could be somewhat allayed.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind comments. It is published. I think, if I am not mistaken, employer satisfaction is near 90%; it might be 88% or 85% or something like that. I am very happy to provide him with the information if he so requires.

I agree with the hon. Member for Blackpool South that the institute needs to consider the views of those who take an apprenticeship or a course in technical education. I am confident that it will do that. He will know—he pointed it out—that last week we published draft strategic guidance for the institute. In this document, which is now open for consultation, we set out that we expect the institute to establish an apprentice panel that will report directly to the board. I am pleased to say to the hon. Gentleman that it will be ready by April 2017, but the wider point is that we should not rush things. We need to get it right. The apprentice panel will be made up of apprentices from different occupations and experience. The panel will decide for itself which issues to focus on, and will challenge and make recommendations to the board. I am sure it will be a success. It will ensure that the views of apprentices are fed directly into the institute’s governance. It might not be exactly the right model in practice. I want to see how it works. I believe that the institute, particularly in its infancy, should have the flexibility and the freedom to decide the best way of gathering the views of an apprenticeship on an ongoing basis. Whatever model it adopts, I would expect the institute to do something similar for technical education students when it takes on this responsibility, but I want to see how the apprentice panel pans out.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
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I thank the Minister for giving way with his customary courtesy. I just want to be absolutely clear about the implications of the wording of the document. Is he giving an assurance on the Floor of the House that the panel will be set up by April, that he will review the panel’s progress and whether it has the right form and structure, and that if he thinks it does not have the right form or structure he will replace it with something equally valuable in representing the views of apprenticeships to the board of the institute?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am pleased to give the hon. Gentleman that guarantee. The panel will be set up by April. I believe it would be pointless to have an Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education without proper apprentice representation, but I want to see what the best format is. I am sure it will work and be a success, but I just want, as I said, to see how it pans out. We expect the institute then to do something similar for technical education students.

I agree with the motivation behind the amendment, but I am concerned about enshrining the establishment of panels in legislation. I do not want to put the institute in a constant straitjacket of legislative red tape that reflects every good idea there may be on how best to fulfil its responsibilities. I therefore think the amendment is unnecessary and would undermine the institute’s power to regulate its own governance and perform its duty.

On new clause 4, the hon. Member for Batley and Spen (Tracy Brabin) made a remarkable speech in Committee on a careers strategy. She cares passionately about this, as I do, but I think we do have meat on the bones. It is not just words. The hon. Member for Blackpool South talked about budgets. We are spending £90 million, which includes the work of the Careers & Enterprise Company. A separate £77 million is being spent on National Careers Service guidance just this year. I am going further. I am looking at a careers strategy from the beginning to ensure that we address our skills needs, and to look at how we can help the most disadvantaged. I am looking at how we can ensure widespread and quality provision, and how that leads to jobs and security. I will set out my plans on careers over the coming weeks.

On the investment in the Careers & Enterprise Company, the hon. Gentleman seemed to suggest that there was no activity in London. I have been to a school in east London supported by the Careers & Enterprise Company and the local enterprise partnership. It is doing remarkable work. Some 1,300 advisers are connecting schools and colleges. They are slowly creating a way to connect with 250,000 students in 75% of the cold spots around the country. There is also money for mentoring. He talked about a famine. I would not say there is a feast, but substantive and serious funds are going in. I could spend a lot of time listing the different moneys, but if he looks at this carefully and fairly, he will see the work that the Careers & Enterprise Company is doing.

We will monitor carefully the impact of our work. In January 2017, destination data will be included in national performance tables for the first time, ensuring an even sharper focus on the success of schools and colleges in supporting their students. Before my time, we legislated to ensure that schools gave independent careers advice on skills and apprenticeships—that was done by my predecessor. Work is being done in schools. I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s thoughtfulness in proposing the new clause, but it is my view that it is not necessary because of the action we are taking, the careers plans I am developing and the money that is being spent, which I have highlighted.

As the hon. Gentleman said, amendment 4 would require the institute to have regard to the need to promote equality of opportunity. I welcome the opportunity to debate that. I know why he tabled the amendment and why it is important. It is crucial to widen access and participation, and to ensure that apprenticeships and technical education are accessible to all, which is why I was glad that, for this year, we have our £60 million fund to help to encourage apprenticeships in the most deprived areas of our country.

I reassure the House that the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education will have to have due regard to widening access and participation. We carried out an equalities impact assessment before publishing the post-16 skills plan, which concluded that the reforms are likely to have a positive impact on individuals with protected characteristics, in particular those with special educational needs or disability, those with prior attainment and those who are economically disadvantaged. The economic assessment concluded that all learners would benefit from the proposed technical education reforms, which will give people access to high-quality technical education courses.

I believe that the need to promote equality of opportunity in connection with access to and participation in further and technical education already exists in legislation under sections 149 and 150 of the Equality Act 2010. It is expressly set out in section ZA2 of the Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Act 2009 that the institute must have regard to

“the reasonable requirements of persons who may wish to undertake education and training within”

its “remit”. The Secretary of State has the power to provide the institute with further guidance under that section. I hope that that explanation gives the hon. Gentleman confidence. I am committed to ensuring that people of all backgrounds have equal opportunities. As he will know, over Christmas we removed the need for apprentices who have serious hearing difficulties to do functional English—they can do sign language instead. That is an example my commitment, as is the extra funding we are giving to employers and providers to get more apprentices who are disabled.

Mims Davies Portrait Mims Davies (Eastleigh) (Con)
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Will the Minister confirm that bringing together oversight of apprenticeships and technical education in one place will bring coherence into the system, which will ensure and protect diversity and equal opportunity because there will be clearer guidance on all opportunities for career progression?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend, who campaigns a lot on diversity and equality, is absolutely right. The proposal will benefit the people who need it most. Many people from disadvantaged backgrounds and with disabilities are prominent in further and technical education.

Amendment 5 addresses the Apprenticeship Delivery Board. The hon. Member for Blackpool South was a little unkind about the board. The board’s representatives include the chief executive of Channel 4, the Compass Group, the City of London, Barclays bank, Sunmart Ltd, Fujitsu, Wates construction, the Ministry of Defence and a significant retail sector member. As he said, there are three women on the board. They are doing important work. They advise the Government and work with businesses to encourage them to have apprentices. As far as I am aware, those people are not being paid. They do not have to do it; they do it because they want to serve our country. They have helped the Apprentice Ambassador Network. The chair, David Meller, is doing important work on that and running the board. I pay tribute to the board. I mean this kindly, but I would not be obsessed with whether or not the Prime Minister has an apprenticeship adviser. As far as I am concerned, the Prime Minister’s advisers are the Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills, which is me, and my boss the Secretary of State. A new adviser for the Prime Minister will not change the course of history for apprentices in our country.

Rob Marris Portrait Rob Marris
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Most of us would see the Minister as a journeyman or time-served Minister rather than as the Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills. He will forgive me for not researching this earlier, but I did not notice in the list he read out any trade union representation. Unusually for Conservative Members, he is an active trade unionist—or he was. Does he agree that it would be desirable to have trade union representation on that board to get buy-in from the workforce side?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The hon. Gentleman will be pleased to know that I am still a trade unionist. That is a good idea. The board is independent, but I will suggest it. I am very impressed and supportive of the work that Unionlearn does, which is why we have agreed to fund it by £12 million. It works to promote training and apprenticeships.

The institute will consult the Apprenticeship Delivery Board and other bodies but, as I have said, we do not need to straitjacket the institute with so much red tape that we stop it from being independent. The delivery board is not intended to have any special legislative standing or corporate identity. It would be unusual to name it in legislation, but the institute will consult the board along with others.

Amendment 6 would require the institute’s expenditure in any one year to exceed that raised by the levy. It is important to clarify that the institute will not have responsibility for the apprenticeship budget, which resides with the Secretary of State for Education. Although the institute is not a funding body, it will be asked to advise on the pricing of apprenticeship standards and allocation to funding bands. The institute’s operations will be funded by my Department and not from the levy funds. It follows that the institute should not be obliged to spend funds raised under the levy.

On devolution, which the hon. Member for Blackpool South mentioned, it will be up to the devolved authorities how they spend the money. If we were to tie the spending explicitly to the levy receipts, there could be adverse funding consequences for the programme as a whole. The budget for spending on apprenticeships in 2019-20 for England and the devolved Administrations totals in excess of £2.9 billion, whereas the projected levy income is £2.8 billion. Having certainty over the funding for apprenticeship training is preferable to linking the funding on a year-by-year basis directly to the wider performance of the economy.

Mims Davies Portrait Mims Davies
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Eastleigh College, which is the third-largest college providing apprenticeships in England and trains over 9,000 apprentices, is particularly interested in how the funding formula for the institute will work and how that will support its work with communities, so the Minister’s clarity today around the levy, the funding criteria and how it will be delivered is very welcome.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank my hon. Friend. It is brilliant that her college is providing such training, and I would be pleased to come and see its training programme when I am next in the area. That it is doing this means that it will also be receiving significant funds. I congratulate the college on the work it is doing on apprenticeships.

Amendment 7 would limit the power to confer new functions on the institute to “state funded” apprenticeships and technical education. All the institute’s current functions in part 4 of, and schedule 4 to, the Enterprise Act 2016 and in schedule 1 to the Bill apply to all reformed apprenticeships and technical education qualifications, not just those that are state funded. We would therefore expect that any new functions the institute is required to carry out should also apply in the same way, to ensure that they are fully effective and do not treat some apprenticeships and technical education courses differently in accordance with how they are paid for. We want to ensure that as many people as possible can undertake an apprenticeship or technical education course, and we would not want this to be restricted to those that are state funded purely because the institute’s functions have been limited.

On amendment 8, it is important that the institute considers what apprenticeships might be appropriate for 16 to 24-year-olds. We know that apprenticeships are incredibly important to school leavers and are making sure that anyone from the age of 16 will have an offering of either an academic or technical education or an apprenticeship. The occupational maps that the institute will put together and which will guide apprenticeships and technical education qualifications will be based on information about the skills needs of the country. They will focus on occupations that can help to increase the UK’s productivity and meet the needs of employers. Putting any constraint around the development of the maps and the occupations included, such as by focusing on a particular group of the population, could damage this overall aim.

My Department runs a number of highly successfully promotional and advice services to help to ensure that young people access the right apprenticeship for them. A significant number of 16 to 18-year-olds take up STEM subjects.

Lord Coaker Portrait Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

On STEM subjects and the advice given to young people, successive Governments have tried to effect change, and the Bill, which is well meaning, will make a positive difference in many respects, but is not the real problem the fact that successive Governments have failed to persuade people that the vocational route is as good as the academic route? Is this not a cultural problem that has bedevilled our country for decades?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The hon. Gentleman is completely right. When I talk about my priorities for skills and education, one of the first things I mention is transforming the prestige and the culture. As he says, this is regardless of what party is in government, and it is not just about Governments either; businesses have also underinvested. Vocational training has always been seen as a so-called—I hate the term—Cinderella sector. The whole purpose of the Sainsbury reforms and the levy is to change behaviours and give apprenticeships and skills and technical education the prestige they deserve.

Lord Coaker Portrait Vernon Coaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The question for the Minister, as it was for me and others here when we were schools Ministers, be we Conservative, Liberal Democrat or Labour, is this: why will it be different this time? The Minister is absolutely right in what he has said, but why will it be different this time from all the times that have gone before?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Unlike the hon. Gentleman, I was not around for all the other times that have gone before. We have our differences, of course, but there is much cross-party consensus on the Sainsbury reforms, for example. Moreover, the apprenticeship levy is a fundamental reform to change behaviours—it is not just about raising money; it also changes behaviours. I believe that there is a new national conversation about apprenticeships and that things are changing, but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. I think we are on the tip of something special, but a lot more work needs to be done.

Because of time, I will speak only briefly on some of the other amendments. On amendment 9, the hon. Member for Blackpool South raised some important points, but we feel that the amendment is unnecessary. The important feature of approved English apprenticeship standards is the move away from a reliance on a series of small and pre-existing qualifications making up an apprenticeship and towards a single end-point assessment. By not mandating qualifications in standards unless they meet one of these criteria, we are ensuring that individual employers have the freedom and flexibility to determine how to train their own apprentices to ensure they gain full competency. It is expected that the institute will continue with this approach.

The provisions on education copyright are very complicated, and I understand why the hon. Gentleman has raised them, but we do not think that the proposed provisions are necessary. Some of the concerns are covered by existing legislation, but we believe that the institute should have the right of copyright, and the bodies working with the institute will know that. We do not agree with the word “route” either because it could be confusing for employers. I want this form of training to be prestigious, and so I want the words “technical education”. I do not like the term “tech levels” either because it dumbs down a very important qualification.

Amendment 17 is on the power to charge for technical education certificates, and I should say that we also have a duty of care to the taxpayer. The institute will not make money out of this provision. It is all about giving it the power to do so if it so chooses and about having a duty of care to the taxpayer. It is for that important reason that we do not support the amendment.

On the Quality Assurance Agency for Higher Education and amendments 18 to 21, the organisations named in the provisions will all have an important role. The omission of the QAA reflects in part the changes being introduced in the Higher Education and Research Bill, which is currently in the other place. Amendment 20, which specifies that the term “apprenticeships” should include those offered by higher education institutions, is not required. I am clear that the term “apprenticeships” includes all apprenticeships offered at all levels, regardless of the training provider.

In conclusion, I thank the hon. Member for Blackpool South for his thoughtful new clauses and amendments on technical education and I thank other hon. Members for their contributions. I hope that my responses have reassured the hon. Gentleman and the House on their underlying concerns. I therefore ask that he withdraw new clause 1 and not press his other amendments.

Rob Marris Portrait Rob Marris
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

If you will allow me a little latitude, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to place my remarks on the amendments in context. I was recently speaking to someone who made a very good point about who is fitting all the kitchens and bathrooms in Poland. This person had experienced very good electricians from Romania working in this country. Our conversation was about Brexit and the skills shortage in the United Kingdom. Whichever side of the debate hon. Members supported, Brexit provides our country with an opportunity to try to address the skills shortages that we have had for decades and have relied for filling on importing workers.

--- Later in debate ---
Rob Marris Portrait Rob Marris
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am not surprised about that. In the last Parliament but one, I had the joy of visiting Lithuania with what was then the Trade and Industry Committee, and that was the sort of issue we talked about. In those days, Lithuania was already starting to import labour from Moldova—outside the European Union—because so many Lithuanians had come with their skills particularly to the United Kingdom and Ireland to ply their respective trades, and I specifically mean trades.

What my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool South (Gordon Marsden) has sought to do from the Labour Front Bench is to beef up the Bill in two ways. One is to introduce even greater confidence in the new system that we will have, and part of that confidence building means moving towards national standards. This partly addresses the issue raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker) about parity of esteem. We talked earlier this afternoon about parity between mental and physical health, but in this case, we are talking about parity of esteem between the vocational and the academic.

Having been a semi-skilled worker for a number of years as a professional driver and a bus driver, I faced a fork in the road. Was I going to go down the vocational route—I had my eye on being a plumber—or was I going to go down the academic route with an eye to being a lawyer? I went down the academic route and I became a lawyer. I do not regret that at all. One reason I did so related to esteem or lack thereof, and another reason was that lawyers get to work indoors whereas plumbers sometimes have to work on building sites outdoors—and I do not like the cold. I am talking about quite a while ago, and the money was better in law than it was in plumbing. I am not sure whether that remains the case nowadays.

We live in a capitalist society. Part of what needs to be done to move towards parity of esteem in a cultural sense is the sort of thing that the Minister has attempted to do during his tenure of office and through this Bill; and, frankly, in a capitalist society, part of it is about paying people more. If we want parity of esteem, we should start paying people equal amounts of money—and pay plumbers as much as lawyers. Given that we live under capitalism, we are moving towards that because of skills shortages.

On new clause 1, I quite understand the Minister’s point that some of the information is already published as a result of the Enterprise Act 2016, but I believe that building this into the Bill as my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool South has proposed, would be helpful for sending out the right message about confidence. It is the same with new clause 2, so that the representative panels can become more representative when they are put in place. I welcome the Minister’s assurance this afternoon that those panels will be in place by April, and I hope they will have a breadth of representation that should, I think, be built into the Bill. I asked the Minister a similar question in a slightly different context about the involvement of trade unions. This is not just a tit-for-tat along the lines of “You have the bosses there, so we have to have the workers there,” although that is important; it more about getting buy-in to the new regime from all sections of our society to build towards addressing the skills shortages that we will face, as I have said, under Brexit.

Under Brexit, there is no mistake about it: the price for staying in the single market would be free movement of labour and people; and the UK population has said that it is not up for that and does not want free movement of people or labour. We will therefore not be in the single market, but we will not have free movement either, because there will be restrictions—whether Members like it or not. We should use these circumstances in a positive way, so that local people can train up for jobs and so that we do not keep poaching skilled people from abroad—whether from Lithuania, as my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins) mentioned, or elsewhere. For that, we need national standards.

When it comes to confidence, we need proper advice. Careers advice in England has certainly been, to say the least, patchy over the years. I remember when my Government set up Connexions, which was not exactly a resounding success—certainly not in the west midlands. I urge the Minister to think again about new clause 4, which is all to do with building confidence. That is particularly clear in paragraphs (b) and (d) of new clause 4(3). These highlight the fact that the Secretary of State should seek to

“ensure that such information, advice and guidance may be taken into account by relevant authorities and partners to meet the needs of local or combined authority areas”

and to

“monitor the outcomes of such information, advice and guidance for recipients.”

It is part of confidence building that we have a regime that is sensitive to local labour markets, which will change greatly from April 2019 when we are out of the European Union.

This Bill is part of the Government—surprisingly, given what is not happening in other areas—showing a bit of foresight, on which I congratulate the Minister. If only we had such foresight about Brexit ramifications for other areas of public endeavour; we do not, but this Bill is a step forward and part of that jigsaw. I am not saying that this is why the Minister has sought to introduce the Bill, but I do think we should look on it positively in that way, and I think that new clause 4 would help to build confidence in the new system, by ensuring that it would be reflective and flexible.

In referring to amendment 9 and others that my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool South said were in a sense under its umbrella—amendments 10 to 16—the Minister talked about employers having freedom and flexibility. Amendment 9 deals with “recognised technical qualifications” and these are connected, certainly for England as I said, with national standards. We need those standards as part of the confidence-building measures, but also to make sure that we get the right people with the right skills—in a sense, workforce planning.

This country is pretty poor at workforce planning. The one area where we could have excellent workforce planning because the number of employees is so enormous and they almost all work for the state is in healthcare delivery, yet it is absolutely appalling. We do not have enough doctors trained here; we do not have enough dentists trained here; we certainly do not have enough nurses trained here; we do not have enough professions allied to medicine—whether radiographers or phlebotomists and so forth—trained here. Yet this is the one area of workforce planning that the Government could get right. I do not mean that only this Government have singularly failed. Under the coalition Government, things went backwards when some nurse training places were shut down. Figures on the number of employees working in the NHS in England alone are so huge that we could take social trends into account and do some pretty good workforce planning on the kind of skills that will be needed in five years or the 10 years that it takes to train a doctor, and so forth.

Arguably, we have been absolute rubbish at this since 1948. Having national standards is important not just for confidence, but for workforce planning. That is why I again urge the Minister to have another think about the import of amendment 9, if not its wording. It is all very well having flexibility and freedom for employers. These were the sort of words that the Minister used—he will correct me if I am wrong—when he explained why he thought amendment 9 was unnecessary and invited my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool South to withdraw it. In my view, however, the Minister should have another think about that, because I believe that national standards are important. Again, I draw on my own experience. When I qualified as a lawyer, I took a national exam that had to be taken by all those seeking to become solicitors in England and Wales. For most of us, if we passed, that led to what was, in a sense, the equivalent of an apprenticeship. It was called “articles of clerkship”, and it involved two years in a solicitor’s office. What had been a national exam taken by everyone who wished to be a solicitor in England and Wales then became a moderated Law Society final exam. My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff Central (Jo Stevens) will remind me what it was called. [Hon. Members: “Legal practice course.”] Yes. It became a legal practice course, and standards went down. I say that having talked to people in post-secondary institutions at the time and having trained articled clerks who had experienced the later system when national standards no longer existed.

National standards are not, of course, a guarantee of quality output, but they can be used by any Government, legitimately and properly, to ensure that we have confidence in the system and to ensure that those who undergo an apprenticeship process and emerge from it fully qualified have a qualification that is worth their having as individuals, and worth our society having.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Qualifications may be mandatory in an apprenticeship standard if that is a mandatory requirement set by the regulator. They include qualifications that are recognised as a legal requirement—that is, licence to practise—that are required for professional registration, or that are used in a hard sift when apprentices are applying for jobs in the occupation related to the standard and would be disadvantaged in the job market without them.

Rob Marris Portrait Rob Marris
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for that clarification. In a sense, he has made my point for me. There will be some national standards in certain fields of endeavour, which he has helpfully specified. However, I think that there is a contradiction in his position, a contradiction from which I do not think I suffer.

Amendment 7, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool South, would insert the words “state-funded”. I found the Minister’s argument persuasive when he explained why he thought that the amendment should not be passed. I may have misunderstood what he said, but he seemed to be saying that he wanted a more overarching model that would encompass privately obtained qualifications. I agree with him. I merely suggest that, if amendment 7 is not accepted, it would be logical to accept something along the lines of amendment 9, which would not limit the requirement to state funding but would provide for national standards, not just in the broad but restricted field defined by what the Minister helpfully read out a moment ago, but more widely. I think that that would be better for confidence, better for our economy and better for the people—many of whom will be young—who will acquire those qualifications. I therefore ask the Minister to think again.

A similar issue is raised by amendments 18 to 21, which relate to the involvement of the Quality Assurance Agency for Higher Education. They, too, seem to me to relate to the ability of employers and prospective apprentices—and, in the case of young apprentices, their families—to feel confident that the system will deliver a qualification that our country needs and that involves enough training to ensure that those apprentices are likely not only to end up with jobs but to contribute to society as we would like them to. That returns me to the workforce planning issue to which I adverted earlier.

The Minister and the Government ought to think again about those amendments. They may not want to accept the exact wording, but I should like them to include the Quality Assurance Agency for Higher Education in the list of agencies that will have a role to play in the planning, the maintenance and perhaps even the raising of standards. That would be desirable.

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Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is a great pleasure to speak in this important debate. I, too, was a member of the Bill Committee, and I am somewhat disappointed that Government amendments have not been introduced at this stage reflecting some of the points made in Committee, especially as they seemed to be accepted at the time, in broad terms, by the Minister. I therefore hope that amendments will even now be brought forward in another place to reflect some of the discussions we had in Committee, and, indeed, some of the points made this evening, particularly by my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool South (Gordon Marsden) on the Front Bench, who made a tour de force speech introducing all his amendments. It is surprising that there are no Government amendments or new clauses on Report; that is very unusual.

All the amendments and new clauses have been introduced by my hon. Friend on behalf of the Labour Opposition—and they are all splendid and I support them all. The lack of Government amendments is disappointing, even though there is a degree of agreement on the value of this legislation, and we all know we have to do something about improving apprenticeships and training our young people for the future. As my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South West (Rob Marris) said, we have to train our own rather than just poach people from abroad.

New clause 1, requiring the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education to report annually, is specifically about the outcomes of completed apprenticeships; it is about the quality of apprenticeships, not just other, broader measures of success. The quality of apprenticeships is vital, to ensure that they lead to the development of skills for quality, long-term jobs after their completion. Young people who complete their apprenticeships must be desirable to their own and to other employers; they must be able to command good jobs for the long term and to look forward to relatively high pay and advancement in those jobs. It is very important to make sure that apprenticeships are high quality not just in words, and that apprentices can do the things they are required to do after they have qualified.

I remember the days, many decades ago now, when we had full employment. I taught in further education during that era, and in many ways it was a better and happier period than we are in now. Everybody who wanted a job got a job, and teaching in further education was a sheer joy. It has been more painful and stressful since then, I have to say, and less well paid, and the conditions of employment are less good than when I was teaching. But that was several decades ago, back in the early 1970s. We also had large companies, mainly in the manufacturing sector, and the giant public utilities, which were then in public ownership, employing thousands of apprentices every year. They had to train their own and they wanted to make sure they were good. Some of those they trained moved off to other jobs, of course, but it was nevertheless beneficial to those doing the apprenticeships and to wider society.

Our society did well because we were training our own, but we have failed to do that in recent times; we have left things to the market, and the market does not always work well in these matters. A degree of Government intervention is required, and it is significant that the Prime Minister has used a phrase not used by any Government for a long time: she has talked about the need for an industrial strategy. I absolutely support that, and we had a debate on industrial strategy just a few weeks ago, which the hon. Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White) led very well.

The subject we are discussing now is part of that industrial strategy. We have to train these people, to make sure we rebuild industry. We do not produce enough any longer, particularly in the manufacturing sector; we do well in services, but not in manufacturing. We have a gigantic trade deficit because we cannot produce enough and we have to buy in from abroad. We must rebuild the manufacturing sector, not so that it becomes the dominant force necessarily, but at least so that it produces sufficient to have a sensible trade balance, which we do not have at present.

Apprenticeships have always been insecure in recent times because companies are much smaller now than they were and they are less secure because of economic crises. I have many anecdotes from my own experience. Just after the 2008 crisis, I was being driven to Heathrow for a parliamentary visit and the driver had an apprenticeship in the construction sector, but the company he had been with had collapsed and he finished up being a cab driver, which he could have done without doing an apprenticeship.

I have heard of fears, too, such as small companies training apprentices who are then poached by larger, more financially lucrative companies. That is particularly the case in the motor trade, where there are skilled small companies training their own people who are then poached by large companies that do lucrative insurance repair work, which can pay a lot more.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Gentleman for, yet again, making a thoughtful speech. I do not have the figures to hand, but the evidence suggests that apprentices in companies are more loyal to that company than those on any other training scheme or in work experience or doing early-career jobs, and that they tend to stay with the companies they do their apprenticeships in.

Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am sure the Minister is right in the majority of cases, but for some there is pressure to move on—for instance as a result of what is happening with house prices at the moment, as one can imagine. Certainly in Luton I know of companies, such as small motor repair firms, that employ apprentices who are under pressure to get a home, and if they can earn a few thousand pounds more at a larger company nearby to help them get on the housing ladder, they will do that. I agree that loyalty is important and many of them want to be loyal, but if the financial pressures on their lives are such that they have to move, they will in the end move.

I particularly want to support the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool South about the need for a strategy for improving career education and new clause 4. We must ensure that when young people are at school or in further education they are aware of the enormous range of opportunities out there and they do not just look at a narrow field. In Luton too high a proportion of students want to get into the legal profession, for example; they want to be professionals and do not appreciate that there are highly paid, highly skilled jobs in manufacturing industry.

Vauxhall Motors still has a plant in Luton, and almost all its senior executives started as apprentices, leaving school, doing apprenticeships and going up the ladder, eventually doing higher qualifications such as higher national certificates and higher national diplomas and becoming highly paid senior executives in the company. Those opportunities are out there, and young people must be made aware of them. We must have a careers strategy making sure that every young person knows about all the thousands of different roles they could assume in life, rather than just going into the professions, or, indeed, just going into a local company; there are lots of things young people can do.

Life can be very exciting, and it is important that all of us do something we enjoy. I am very fortunate in that I was fascinated by politics in my early life and I finished up in Parliament where I wanted to be; I do not regret a moment of it. But sometimes people are not aware of the enormous range of possibilities in life. Having a powerful careers advice strategy is vital not just for young people’s lives, but for the economy. If people are happy in their work, they will work better and the economy will work better, and the world will be a much better place.

I have one more story that explains something tragic that has happened in Luton. We were a town that trained thousands of apprentices, and I know many of them personally. Recently I visited a small manufacturing company that makes components for Formula 1 and Jaguar. It could not find one toolmaker; it wanted one toolmaker from a town of over 200,000 people that used to be dominated by manufacturing, but could not find one. It is a disgrace that we have failed to train sufficient numbers of people in these areas.

There are many other things I would like to say—I could speak for an hour unaided, I am sure—but as others want to contribute, I will leave it there. I hope the points I have made are of interest.

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20:10

Division 115

Ayes: 186


Labour: 175
Liberal Democrat: 5
Democratic Unionist Party: 4
Green Party: 1
Social Democratic & Labour Party: 1

Noes: 274


Conservative: 272
Ulster Unionist Party: 2

Clause 14
--- Later in debate ---
Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend has a double qualification to speak on the subject: as the Member of Parliament for the constituency she represents and through her previous career as a distinguished local government leader in London. She knows whereof she speaks and she is absolutely right that the problem is accentuated in those areas.

Money has come in over the years including pre-1992 and in the major Building Colleges for the Future programme that the Labour Government introduced in the 2000s. Then, of course, significant sums of money were put in by regional development agencies and sometimes through regional growth fund developments and offshoots of European structural funding. As I said, FE colleges deliver not just FE, but higher education. If 10% to 12% of total HE provision is being delivered by FE colleges, it is really important that we do not lose that position.

I do not want to rehearse—indeed, we do not have time to tonight—the arguments that were made in 2011 about the private for-profit sector training coming in and being involved with various equity funds whose investment platforms were very much focused on a broad area. However, I would say, as many in the sector would, that although the private equity funding sector can be extremely profitable and useful, it is based on a relatively short-term view of providing management and initial capital to buy other companies and then taking them off the public share markets. It is entirely reasonable for us to be concerned about the possible disposal of lands with significant amounts of public assets. The question is not simply whether it is a good thing to transfer a significant number of public sector assets to a private provider, but what the financial guarantees are. More importantly, there are issues regarding the nature of the body and the guarantees to the students and the people employed there if such organisations use the insolvency to take on those colleges.

Ministers may talk about guarantees for staff under TUPE, but I am sure that hon. Members realise that TUPE does not offer protection forever and a day. I have had significant experience of that in my constituency in Blackpool over the years with people who have been outsourced from the civil service and TUPE-ed into other organisations that have then passed on to someone else, at which point those people’s automatic rights and security of tenure have almost become extinguished. Those are our concerns and they are not irrelevant. They are concerns of pragmatics and of principle. It is not as though there have not been concerns in the area previously.

In December 2014, the Public Accounts Committee severely quizzed officials from the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, which then had responsibility for the matter, about why private providers were allowed to engage in untrammelled expansion without proper quality checks. In February 2015, the Committee published a report that said that BIS has repeatedly ignored advice from the Higher Education Funding Council for England about vast sums of public money going to for-profit colleges without due process and consideration. There is the potential, as Martin Doel, the former chief executive of the Association of Colleges, said, for private organisations to

“asset strip colleges’ buildings and facilities”

or “pick” assets.

So, for the avoidance of doubt, we are not saying that we would oppose any private sector takeover of a college in any circumstances; we are saying that the education administrator will have to make a judgment. We are also saying that, without the protection in this amendment, the potential for the things I have described to happen would be very high, and that is why we are determined to press the amendment this evening.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Member for Blackpool South (Gordon Marsden) again for his amendments. I will begin by discussing amendment 1, which affects clause 14. I have to stress that, in the unlikely event that an FE body becomes insolvent, we want to ensure that any disruption to students’ studies is avoided or minimised as far as possible. It will be for the education administrator to deal with that, and according to the relevant clause in the Bill, they will be an insolvency practitioner—they are likely to come from one of the bigger companies and to have education experience. It will be the same system as with insolvent companies.

The education administrator will decide how the special objective will best be achieved. Clause 14(2) does no more than suggest ways in which that might be done. The education administrator will need to consider the specific circumstances of any insolvency and then determine the most appropriate approach. It is inconceivable that they would draw up proposals for achieving the special objective without having had discussions with a wide range of stakeholders, such as the Further Education Commissioner, student bodies and others, and without considering a wide range of pertinent issues.

Our expectation is that that will include discussions with the key stakeholders, local authorities and others. Where appropriate, it may also involve—I brought this up in Committee—a conversation with the care leaver’s personal adviser. We discussed in Committee the additional personal and pastoral support that care leavers might need. I undertook to consider the matter further, and I hope the hon. Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins) will be pleased that we are keeping the promise we made in Committee. We will ensure that the guidance to local authorities on their corporate parenting responsibilities, being introduced through the Children and Social Work Bill, includes advice on the role of personal advisers in the event of a college insolvency affecting a young person for whom they are responsible.

We expect the education administrator, in developing their proposals, to take account of the quality of alternative provision and, if it is necessary for students to complete their studies in other locations, to consider the impact of travel distances. The hon. Member for Blackpool South will be aware that we provide funding to colleges to support disadvantaged and vulnerable young people. In addition to the disadvantage funding for post-16 places—£550 million in 2016-17—which can be used to subsidise college buses, there is also the 16-to-19 bursary fund and the fund for the particularly vulnerable. Colleges will be able to offer this funding to eligible students who transfer to them under a special administrative regime. There may be scope for the education administrator to set up a scheme to cover some or all of the additional travel costs if students do have to travel to another location.

In Committee, the hon. Gentleman said:

“We do not want this to become”

a

“long-winded, time-consuming process”—[Official Report, Technical and Further Education Public Bill Committee, 1 December 2016; c. 174.]

I share that view. It is in the interests of students and staff to have certainty as soon as possible about what will happen. Requiring formal assessments to be carried out in the way proposed by the amendment would lengthen the process and reduce the education administrator’s discretion to find the best way of achieving the special objective. That is not to say that we do not agree that these issues are important, but I have shown that they are at the front of the education administrator’s mind.

On amendment 2, I understand the issue about double protection and why the hon. Gentleman has tabled the amendment. The amendment is unnecessary because the court, on hearing an education administration application, already has the discretion to make any interim order it thinks appropriate. If it is necessary or appropriate to make an order relating to an existing student protection plan, the court has the power to do that under the Bill.

On pensions, we have followed as far as possible the provisions of the ordinary administration regime that exists for company insolvencies. We propose to adopt similar provisions for college insolvencies, which, as I say, will be very rare indeed. As with any administration, once the administrator has adopted the employment contracts of the staff they decide to keep on, they are personally liable for the costs of those individuals, such as their salary and their pension contributions. They would take on the appointment only if they were confident that sufficient funds were available to meet the costs. Some pension contributions will continue to be made and benefits accrue. Some staff may be made redundant, whether at the start of the education administration or subsequently, but this will of course be in accordance with statutory employment rights. For these staff, contributions to the pension fund will end once they are no longer employed by the body, but this is no different from the position of any other person leaving their employer’s pension scheme. It is important to be clear, however, that the benefits individuals have accrued in the scheme prior to the end of their employment will not be lost.

I accept that the hon. Gentleman feels very strongly about the transfer issue. FE colleges are statutory corporations with very significant freedoms to deal with their own assets. A solvent college is free to transfer property to any person or organisation it chooses. In order to benefit, the college would of course expect to receive value when transferring an asset to a third party, and in general this would mean transferring at market value, although this depends on the nature of the transaction as a whole. In this case, however, we are talking only about a situation where a college has failed financially and is insolvent—an extreme case.

I need to make it clear to the hon. Gentleman that there are four vital protections that act as a quadruple lock to safeguard assets that belong to the college, which may well have been paid for with money from the public purse but have to be dealt with because the college is insolvent. First, unlike solvent, operational colleges that wish to transfer property, if the education administrator decides to make a transfer scheme, they are restricted as to whom they can transfer the assets. These bodies are prescribed in the secondary legislation made under section 27B of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992. They are public sector bodies with educational functions. In addition, transfers can be made to private companies, but the company must be established for purposes that include the provision of educational facilities.

Secondly, just as with any other action of the education administrator, any transfer scheme must be for the purposes of achieving the special objective of avoiding or minimising disruption to students’ studies. Thirdly, creditors have a general right to challenge should they consider that the education administrator is selling things “on the cheap”, for example. Finally, the Secretary of State or Welsh Ministers must approve the proposed transfer scheme. Any approval will include, among other matters, consideration of whether it is for the purposes of achieving the special objective. I believe that the quadruple lock answers the hon. Gentleman’s concerns.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his amendments, and thank other hon. Members for their contributions to the debate. I hope that my response has reassured him, and the House, on his underlying concerns. I therefore ask that the amendments are not pressed to a Division.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I have listened carefully to what the Minister has said and taken note of his views and the proposals he has made. On that basis, we are prepared to withdraw amendment 1.

On amendments 2 and 3, I heard the reassurances that the Minister has given, but when the Bill reaches the other place there needs to be a further examination of the very important issues around the pension schemes. I am not entirely convinced that the assurances, which I am sure have been made in good faith, will actually do the business.

As regards amendment 22, I thank the Minister for his explanation of what he described as the quadruple lock, but I am afraid, not least because of seeing past practice, that we have to plan in this Bill not for the best circumstances but for the worst. This is also a really important issue of public policy that we should establish within the Bill. On that basis, we wish to press amendment 22 to a vote. I beg to ask leave to withdraw amendment 1.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.



Schedule 2

Education administration: transfer schemes

Amendment proposed: 22, page 30, line 39, at end insert—

“3A The education administrator may not transfer assets of any further education body to a for-profit private company where he or she considers that more than half of the funding of the acquisition of the asset came from public funds.”—(Gordon Marsden.)

This amendment would ensure further education bodies with a track record of accruing assets publicly, could not be transferred to a for-profit private company.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

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20:59

Division 116

Ayes: 183


Labour: 174
Liberal Democrat: 5
Ulster Unionist Party: 2
Green Party: 1
Social Democratic & Labour Party: 1

Noes: 278


Conservative: 274
Democratic Unionist Party: 4

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will now suspend the House for no more than five minutes in order to make a decision on certification. The Division bells will be rung two minutes before the House resumes. Following my certification, the Government will table the appropriate consent motions, copies of which will be shortly available in the Vote Office and will be distributed by the Doorkeepers.

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Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I can now inform the House of my decision about certification. For the purposes of Standing Order No. 83L(2), I have certified clauses 2 to 38 of, and schedules 2 to 4 to, the Technical and Further Education Bill as relating exclusively to England and Wales and within devolved legislative competence, and clause 1 of, and schedule 1 to, the Bill as relating exclusively to England and within devolved legislative competence. Copies of my certificate are available in the Vote Office.

Under Standing Order No. 83M, consent motions are therefore required for the Bill to proceed. Does the Minister intend to move the consent motions?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

indicated assent.

The House forthwith resolved itself into the Legislative Grand Committee (England and Wales) (Standing Order No. 83M).

[Mr Lindsay Hoyle in the Chair]

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait The Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I remind hon. Members that if there are Divisions, only Members representing constituencies in England and Wales may vote on the consent motion for England and Wales, and only Members representing constituencies in England may vote on the consent motion for England. As the knife has fallen, there can be no debate

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83M(5)),

That the Committee consents to the following certified clauses of the Technical and Further Education Bill:

Clauses certified under Standing Order No. 83L(2) as relating exclusively to England and Wales and being within devolved legislative competence

Clauses 2 to 38 of, and Schedules 2 to 4 to, the Technical and Further Education Bill.—(Robert Halfon.)

Question agreed to.

The House forthwith resolved itself into the Legislative Grand Committee (England) (Standing Order No. 83M(4)(d)).

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83M(4)(d)),

That the Committee consents to the following certified clauses of the Technical and Further Education Bill:

Clauses certified under Standing Order No. 83L(2) as relating exclusively to England and being within devolved legislative competence

Clause 1 of, and schedule 1 to, the Technical and Further Education Bill.—(Robert Halfon.)

Question agreed to.

The occupant of the Chair left the Chair to report the decisions of the Committees (Standing Order No. 83M(6)).

The Deputy Speaker resumed the Chair; decisions reported.

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Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

I want to give my special thanks to all the individuals who have shared their time and knowledge during the Bill’s passage through the House, to the officials who have worked so hard to bring it before Parliament and to those providing written and oral evidence. I would like to thank members of the Committee for their diligent approach and careful consideration of the practical implications of the Bill, and Members who have already spoken today.

I am clear about the priorities that we want to see in apprenticeships, further education and skills, creating a ladder of opportunity for all. These include a transformation of prestige and culture; widespread, high-quality provision; a system that addresses our skills needs; social justice; and job security and prosperity. The Bill seeks to build those priorities into our system, bringing to life the fundamental reforms needed to ensure that we have a skills and education system that rivals the best in the world.

For too long, technical education has been overly complex, overlooked and undervalued. Putting employers at the heart of these changes, as demonstrated through the current apprenticeship reforms and as recommended by Lord Sainsbury’s independent report, we can provide a clear route to employment for our young people. The changes in the Bill will support the achievements of those young people from difficult backgrounds, such as those with special educational needs or disability. In response to what my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) said earlier, we are doing a lot to implement the Maynard reforms, we are spending £2 million to help apprentices with mental health difficulties, and we announced over Christmas that apprentices with severe hearing problems will be able to do sign language instead of English as a functional skill.

We expect individuals with SEND to be over-represented on technical education routes: 23% of those who access technical education routes will have some form of special educational need compared with 7% of those taking level 3 academic qualifications, and 20% of those in the cohort as a whole.

The measures in the Bill will drive up the productivity of our country, turning us into an apprenticeship nation and providing the skills we need for our country to thrive. That is why the CBI has said:

“Businesses have long called for a vocational route…so today’s proposals are a real step forward.”

David Rutley Portrait David Rutley
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank my right hon. Friend for the incredible work he has done in taking the Bill forward and I commend him for his efforts. Does he agree that one of the most important factors is engaging businesses in these apprenticeships and making the route to skills more relevant for business so that this will not only help to address the productivity challenges that he has mentioned, but improve life chances for the young people involved, too?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend, whom I thank for his work on the Committee, is absolutely right. We introduced the apprenticeship levy to change behaviour and involve businesses in supporting apprenticeships, we have created the institute and the employer panels, and we are giving huge financial incentives to businesses, especially small businesses, to ensure that they hire apprentices.

The Bill also introduces an insolvency regime for the further education sector that will, in the unlikely event of a college insolvency, provide clear-cut protections for learners to minimise disruption to their studies as far as possible, while offering certainty to creditors. During oral evidence, we heard from representatives of the Association of Colleges, Collab and others, who supported the insolvency regime and the protections that it includes for learners. Although there were issues about which the banks had questions, many spoke in support of the clarity provided by the proposed measures. Santander told us that it was keen to lend more to the further education sector, and said:

“On the Bill and the proposed insolvency regime, we are actually supportive of the clarity that they provide.”––[Official Report, Technical and Further Education Public Bill Committee, 22 November 2016; c. 38, Q41.]

Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

As the Minister will remember, I suggested in Committee that all colleges should have professionally qualified members with financial skills in both management and governorship, so that skilled eyes would be trained on the finances to ensure that at least mistakes were not made internally.

--- Later in debate ---
Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I accept the hon. Gentleman’s premise, but, as I think I said in Committee, I do not want to put a straitjacket on colleges. The principal of Blackpool and The Fylde College acknowledged that there might be different requirements for different colleges. Nevertheless, there should be as much financial expertise as possible in further education colleges. When there is real financial leadership, those colleges will always be in good financial health whatever the funding pressures.

We forecast that, by March 2017, we will have spent a total of about £140 million on propping up colleges facing extreme financial difficulties. That money should have been spent on education and training priorities. While we envisage that only a very small number of colleges will ever find themselves insolvent, providing protection for learners and clarity for creditors is a crucial part of what we are trying to do, and of our responsibility to support the sector.

Since the Committee stage, we have been in a position to publish for consultation the Secretary of State’s draft strategic guidance. Following our conversations about the importance of incorporating the views of students in the running of the institute, it will come as no surprise that the guidance sets out our firm expectation that the institute will establish an apprentice panel by April this year. The panel will report directly to the board, ensuring that the learner voice—the apprentice voice—is at the heart of the institute. I am glad that the hon. Member for Blackpool South (Gordon Marsden) is encouraged by our approach. We also intend to publish for consultation, before the institute becomes operational in April, an operational plan for the institute which will set out in more detail how it intends to carry out its functions.

As for the insolvency elements of the Bill, we discussed in Committee the protections given to students through the special objective, and the possible ways in which the education administrator could ensure that disruption to students’ studies was avoided or minimised. In particular, we discussed whether the particular regard that the education administrator must have to the needs of students with special educational needs and disabilities should be extended to any other groups. I also recognise the importance of taking account of the needs of care leavers, recognising that they may need additional personal or pastoral support to deal with any uncertainty or upheaval should their college ever be subject to insolvency. Such support is best provided for each individual by a local authority-assigned personal adviser. As I said earlier, we will take steps to ensure that the guidance being produced for local authorities on their corporate parenting responsibilities includes advice on the role of personal advisers in the event that the young people for whom they are responsible attend colleges that enter education administration.

There is much to be proud of in our current system, given that 71% of FE colleges are good or outstanding and more than 50% are in good financial health, the proportion of 16 to 18-year-olds in education or taking up apprenticeships is at a record high, the reforms made following the 2011 Wolf review have raised the quality of qualifications, and 88% of students were recorded as having a sustained education destination in the year after key stage 5.

We know that high-quality further education can have a truly transformative impact on young people. That is why we announced as part of the spending review that we will protect the 16-to-19 national base rate of £4,000 per student for the duration of this Parliament. By 2020, if we include the adult education budget, the 19-plus apprenticeship funding and advanced learner loans, more funding will be available to support adult further education participation than at any time in England’s history.

The measures in this Bill will build on the key priorities, enabling students to make better choices about their future, with the opportunity to gain qualifications valued by employers that will secure their future prosperity and that of our nation.

Rebecca Pow Portrait Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

In my constituency we are very fortunate in having Richard Huish sixth-form college, which has just been shortlisted as one of the six best sixth-form colleges in the country for The Times award. It runs apprenticeship courses, but there are concerns that it cannot get enough students to apply for some of the business admin courses. There is a real demand from business for those students, yet there are loads of apprentices doing courses where business does not really have jobs for them. Does the Minister agree with me and the principal of the college that provisions in this Bill to develop the synergy between education, apprenticeships and business are welcome, and indeed vital in addressing the skills shortage in this country?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention, and she is absolutely right: everything this Government are doing—the apprenticeship levy, this Bill, FE and technical education reform, the drive up of standards, the encouragement of apprenticeships, the money we are putting in with £2.5 billion that will be doubled by 2020—is designed to solve the problems she has talked about.

The OECD has said about the skills plan that

“the UK has a promising plan to advance technical education from a last resort to a first choice.”

Colleges, too, have spoken highly of the plan, including the principal of my own Harlow College, who said:

“As colleges we are not just about courses, we are about careers—we therefore believe that any reform that brings us closer to employers means our students gain higher skills and better jobs.”

This Bill is a Ronseal Bill: it does what it says on the tin. It transforms the prestige and quality of apprenticeships and technical education in our country, addresses the skills deficit, protects students in the event that colleges face extreme financial difficulty, and ensures that the most disadvantaged are able to climb the ladder of opportunity. The Bill underlines the Prime Minister’s commitment to a country that works for everyone. I commend the Bill to the House.

Technical and Further Education Bill

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
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Lords Chamber
Technical and Further Education Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: Consideration of Bill Amendments as at 9 January 2017 - (9 Jan 2017)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

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Moved by
Lord Nash Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, first, I express my gratitude to noble Lords who have already attended meetings with me and the Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills, Robert Halfon, or who have met with officials from my department to discuss the Bill. Across those meetings, there has been support for the principles underpinning the Bill. I welcome this and look forward to working with noble Lords to scrutinise the detail of the Bill to ensure that it meets our shared ambitions.

The Technical and Further Education Bill aims to build a high-quality technical education system that rivals the best in the world, providing the core skills our country needs to thrive. The measures in the technical education part of the Bill take forward the recommendations made in the independent review by the noble Lord, Lord Sainsbury of Turville, and indeed support the work of the noble Baroness, Lady Wolf of Dulwich, to increase the prestige and value of technical education. Currently, the technical option is undervalued —the poor relation to its academic cousin. Too often, those choosing technical education find that it does not provide a clear route to employment or equip them with the skills they need to get the job they aspire to.

The measures in the Bill will work to provide a genuine choice between a technical or academic route, whereby people can feel confident that either route will equip them for sustained employment. Indeed, when the noble Lord, Lord Sainsbury of Turville, gave evidence in the first committee session during the Bill’s passage through the other place, he talked of the international lessons to be learned about parity of esteem between technical and academic routes:

“In most of the successful countries you find the two routes are equally well valued, so there is not a problem of the technical education route being considered inferior. You can have these two routes and both of them be highly valued”.—[Official Report, Commons, Technical and Further Education Bill Committee, 22/11/16; col. 13.]


That is what we are trying to achieve.

The technical education measures in the Bill extend the role of the Institute for Apprenticeships to give it responsibility for classroom-based technical education in addition to apprenticeships. It will be renamed the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education. The institute will put employers at the heart of the technical education system, empowering them to identify the knowledge, skills and behaviours needed for particular occupations. This fundamental shift in the way that technical training courses are designed will enable people to get themselves into employment and provide our country with the skilled workforce it needs.

Part 2 sets out, for the first time, a clear process to be followed in the unlikely event of a further education college insolvency. These measures were carefully developed through consultation over the summer of last year. They apply the normal insolvency procedures to colleges, and in so doing provide much needed clarity for creditors, which they have welcomed. But, importantly, the Bill puts in place protections for students through the introduction of a special administration regime that will have the special objective of avoiding or minimising disruption to the studies of existing students at affected colleges. These measures will ensure that students are protected if a college becomes insolvent.

That is not to say that we expect this process to be regularly used. The current programme of area reviews is well under way, working to put the further education sector on a better and more sustainable financial footing for the future. Part of the review process is to encourage colleges to consider needs and provision locally. That will help to ensure that the right provision is available in the right places. As I said, we do not anticipate that the proposed insolvency regime will be used often, but it is necessary to introduce greater rigour to the further education sector. We forecast that we will have spent approaching £140 million propping up failing colleges by March this year—money we can ill afford to spend.

Being clear that we will no longer bail out colleges that become insolvent will encourage improved financial management in FE colleges which may have performed less well in the past. We know from schools that, often, those running poorly financially also do so educationally, so we can expect to see a further benefit in improved educational performance.

Part 3 includes a measure to amend existing legislation to ensure that, after the devolution of further education functions and the adult education budget to a combined authority, FE providers and others will continue to submit relevant information to the national data system. This will ensure the continued availability of relevant data needed to make intelligent and strategic policy decisions about investment in further education.

The Bill received constructive challenge in the other place and, although it was not amended, we made changes to our approach outside the Bill on the basis of that challenge. I welcome the further scrutiny that this Chamber will provide, and I look forward to hearing the views of noble Lords as the Bill makes progress through your Lordships’ House. The reforms in it will ensure that we improve the skills base in our country, increase economic productivity and protect students, while encouraging greater rigour regarding the finances of the further education sector. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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My Lords, we have heard many expert contributions from noble Lords with considerable collective experience of education, which I found extremely helpful. My colleague Mr Halfon, the Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills, has been present throughout the debate and has already told me that he found the contributions very thoughtful. I am sure he also found the debate very instructive. I have no doubt that the scrutiny this House will provide will further strengthen the Bill. As I said, I am very grateful for the points that have been made. I will respond to as many as time will allow, and write to noble Lords on those points that I cannot cover. I look forward to discussing the issues further in Committee.

A number of noble Lords raised the important question of status. I agree that we desperately need to raise the status of technical education, and ultimately to achieve parity with academic routes. We have a long way to go to achieve this, although I believe that the Bill is part of what the noble Baroness, Lady Wolf, called a serious reversal of the current situation. Many noble Lords, including the noble Baroness, Lady Wolf, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Norwich, my noble friend Lord Leigh, the noble Lord, Lord Watson, and my noble friend Lord Lucas raised the important question of quality. The core aim of the apprenticeship reform programme is to improve the quality of apprenticeships in England. All reformed apprenticeships will be based on a standard which has been designed by employers, giving them the opportunity to set out the skills, knowledge and behaviours that their apprentices will need to be fully competent. Over 490 standards have either been developed or are in development, involving 215 groups of employers. Instead of being assessed through a number of small, low-quality qualifications throughout the apprenticeship, in future apprentices will be tested at the end of their apprenticeship by a new rigorous assessment, also developed by employers, to really test that they can do the job. No one will be able to pass their apprenticeship unless they have met this new high bar. We have introduced new quality criteria which providers have to meet before they can be approved to deliver training as part of an apprenticeship, and Ofsted, HEFCE and QAA will continue to quality assure the training as it is delivered. The Skills Funding Agency will also continue to monitor outcomes and intervene where it has concerns.

A number of noble Lords, including the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, and the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, raised the potential problem of being fixated on targets. The 3 million target is an important galvanising force and a statement of intent but our reforms are absolutely about quality, not just quantity. Good progress is being made on the set-up of the institute and we fully expect it to be able to carry out its apprenticeship functions from April this year. Last week, we announced the institute’s board members. I am extremely grateful to my noble friend Lord Baker for his very high praise for the board members. We have also published the institute’s draft operational plan, which sets out how it will carry out its functions. This follows the publication for consultation earlier this year of the Secretary of State’s draft strategic guidance letter to the institute for 2017-18, which outlines the policy parameters within which the institute should operate. The recruitment of the senior team is going well. The interim chief executive and deputy chief executive are in place, six permanent deputy director roles have been filled and all will be in post in April, and a permanent chair will be announced very shortly. Job advertisements for the chairs of the institute’s route panels are out now, and interviews will take place before the end of the year.

A number of noble Lords asked whether the institute will have adequate resources. The final size and structure of the institute is still to be determined, but we expect that around 60 to 80 staff members will be appointed. I am sure that my noble friend Lord Leigh will be pleased to hear about the appointment of Paul Cadman to the board of the institute. He is the CEO of a training provider.

The noble Baroness, Lady Morris, the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Norwich and others talked about overlap with other bodies. We are confident that the institute will have a clear and distinct role in technical education. Instead of embarking on a mammoth merger of the different bodies, the Government are asking Ofsted, Ofqual, HEFCE and the QAA to work together collaboratively towards a common goal. We have explained in our draft strategic guidance for the institute that we will expect it to play a leadership role in the context of apprenticeships, including establishing a quality partnership group. This is also referred to in the institute’s draft operational plan published last week. To ensure the roles are distinct and transparent, we are preparing an accountability statement that will make the bodies’ responsibilities clear and avoid overlap or gaps.

A number of noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Watson, raised the point about representation. The shadow institute is establishing route panels, which will be aligned to the technical education routes—which are groups of occupations—and will review and approve proposals for new occupational standards and the standards and assessment plans themselves.

The noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, asked about the constitution of the panels. They will be largely made up of institute staff but will include a range of experts with knowledge of the occupations within a particular route and could include employers, academics, professional bodies, sector and trade organisations, and national colleges or other training providers. The institute is also required by legislation to ensure that all standards and assessment plans have been subject to independent, third-party scrutiny. The draft strategic guidance sent to the institute sets out that it should involve a wide range of interested parties in this process.

A number of noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Addington, my noble friend Lady Stedman-Scott and the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, raised the question of technical education for vulnerable students. Technical routes will be fair and accessible to young people with SEND and care leavers, and reasonable adjustments will be made to enable them to take part and succeed. When such young people cannot access a route because of prior attainment, they will have a “transition year”, which will be flexible and tailored to individual need, with additional support to ensure that care leavers and young people with SEND complete their courses and move on to the next stage of their learning. This “transition year” will help young people from all backgrounds, ability levels and personal circumstances to gain the skills they need to enter employment.

My noble friend Lord Leigh and the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, raised the question of representation of apprentices. To ensure that the institute represents the views and interests of apprentices, it will establish an apprentice panel by 1 April, which will report and make recommendations directly to the board. This panel will be made up of apprentices from different occupations and experiences, and it will decide for itself what issues it will focus on.

On copyright, which was raised by my noble friend Lord Lucas, the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, and others, under the reforms it is our intention that there will be one qualification per occupation or group of occupations. Employers and other professionals will play a significant role in determining the content of the new qualifications, with the support and input of the institute. The institute will have the final say over approving these qualifications and their content. It is therefore appropriate that copyright for relevant course documents should rest with the institute. The institute is empowered to grant any person, including that organisation, a licence to use the qualification for a specified period or potentially to be used for other markets; that is, internationally. As a public body, the institute is under a duty to act fairly and transparently.

We recognise that this is a significant departure from the current system, whereby awarding organisations are free to decide on the qualifications they offer and on their content. We know that copyright is an important feature of the current system. However, I reassure noble Lords and awarding organisations that the copyright measures in the Bill are not intended to disadvantage them. To make sure that the new system is fair and transparent—and that it remains an attractive commercial proposition—we want to work with awarding organisations and others. We want to hear their views on these arrangements; for example, what the length of a contract should be or exactly which documents should be the subject of copyright. It is instrumental to the reforms that the institute, rather than organisations, dictates the content of the qualification. We believe that this will help drive up competition and keep the market active. Organisations whose qualifications were not approved in one round will be able to improve their qualification and its delivery and bid in another round. They would be prevented from doing so if copyright were not vested in the institute.

A number of noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Lucas, raised the point about the single awarding body. To bring the system in line with the best in the world and ensure excellence in technical education, the noble Lord, Lord Sainsbury, recommended a single awarding organisation per qualification. The proliferation of qualifications has in the past led, as we all know, to a race to the bottom and a decline in standards.

The noble Baroness, Lady Garden, asked about certificates, as did my noble friend Lord Lucas and the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare. The institute will have overall responsibility for apprenticeship certificates. It will work with the SFA to design a high-quality apprenticeship certificate that will be awarded to learners who successfully complete their training. Every apprentice will receive the same design, and in time, learners who pass an approved classroom-based course will also receive a similar institute-designed certificate. The institute is by no means an awarding organisation, and a certificate will be given only when the assessment organisation has confirmed that the apprentice has passed their end-point assessment and this has been validated by the SFA.

Approving certificates for standards will be much less bureaucratic than for frameworks; indeed, the SFA took on responsibility for the certification of apprenticeship standards at the start of this year, and the cost will be covered by the employer, not the apprentice.

My noble friends Lord Baker and Lady Stedman-Scott and the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, asked about pupils moving at 14. Young people can choose to focus on technical education at various ages and stages. Between the ages of 14 and 16, young people can study technical awards alongside their GCSEs, and of course they can enrol at a UTC, to which a number of noble Lords referred.

I am grateful for the endorsement by the noble Baroness, Lady Wolf, of the insolvency measures in the Bill. I will reflect on how we might consider the independent provider sector and how best to protect students—a point my noble friend Lord Lucas also made. HE and FE sectors have different characteristics, so it follows that they might need different approaches to student protection in the event of insolvency. The Higher Education and Research Bill requires student protection plans to be put in place by providers. Both SPPs and the special administration regime have the same objective of student protection, albeit by different means. The likelihood of insolvency of independent training providers is low; the SFA oversees a rigorous process through approving and monitoring independent providers, which subject financial returns to the SFA. Independent providers eligible to offer student loans are subject to the SFA’s policy on intervention, which is triggered by Ofsted inspection or not meeting SFA standards. We have put into intervention that it may have to take remedial action, with the potential effects on learners taken into account. As companies, independent training providers are already subject to insolvency law and, like public providers, private providers are already subject to obligations in their funding agreements which they have with the Government, which require them to protect the interests of students.

On more detail on private providers, the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Aberdare, raised the question of the private sector from slightly different directions, as one might expect. The private sector already provides a significant amount of education and training very effectively. It is true that transfers can be made to private companies. However, I recognise the concern that assets which may have been paid for by the taxpayer, and for the purposes of providing education, should not then be transferred to the private sector on the cheap. I reassure noble Lords this is not the case. The Bill provides four key protections, acting as a quadruple lock, should the education administrator deem it necessary to make a transfer scheme for the property, rights or liabilities of an insolvent FE body.

First, the education administrator is restricted in who they can transfer the assets to. These bodies are prescribed in secondary legislation and are public sector bodies with educational functions, colleges and similar public-funded educational bodies. Transfers may be made to private companies, but if so, the company must be established for the purposes, which include the provision of educational facilities or services. Secondly, any transfer scheme must be for the purposes of achieving the special objective; that is, it must avoid or minimise disruption to students. Thirdly, creditors have a right of challenge should they consider that the education administrator is not working to fulfil the objective of achieving the best result for creditors as a whole, so far as is consistent with that special objective with regard to students. Finally, the Secretary of State or Welsh Ministers must approve the proposed transfer scheme. Any approval will include, among other matters, consideration of whether it is for the purposes of achieving the special objective.

The noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Young, mentioned the IFA’s assertion that most money raised through the levy will not be spent on apprenticeships. We disagree with this. By 2019-20, spending on apprenticeships will be £2.5 billion, and we are confident in the extensive research that demonstrates the real economic benefits that apprenticeships deliver.

Lord Watson of Invergowrie Portrait Lord Watson of Invergowrie
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

When the issue was discussed on Report in the other place, the question was raised as to whether the Treasury might keep part of the money raised through the levy. I do not think that I am being unfair to the Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills when I say that he did not answer that question clearly on Report. Can the Minister give us an assurance now that all the money will stay in the sector, not with the Treasury?

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will write to the noble Lord about that, checking carefully before I respond.

I was very interested to hear from the noble Baroness, Lady Cohen of Pimlico, about her involvement with the Cambridge UTC and the Parkside educational trust MAT, and about the advantages. For the very reasons that she mentioned, it is our policy to encourage all UTCs to join MATs. On her point about the evaluation of UTCs and the fact that apprenticeships are not recognised in outcomes, this is something that we are looking at very closely at the moment. She also made the point that institutes should not approve degree apprenticeships. Degree apprenticeship standards are currently approved by my department. I can reassure her that, although the institute will take on this approval function, it will not be responsible for investigating or engaging with individual universities. However, it will of course work with the Office for Students in the future.

Many noble Lords raised the important matter of careers and careers advice. We take this extremely seriously. That is why the industrial strategy set out that we will publish, later this year, a comprehensive strategy for careers information, advice and guidance across all ages, expanding the quantity and quality of careers advice. As my noble friend Lord Lucas rightly pointed out, the development of careers leadership in schools and colleges will be an important element of this.

We are investing £90 million in this Parliament to improve the quality and coverage of careers advice for young people, and the Careers & Enterprise Company continues its excellent work. I echo the praise expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, for this organisation, which is very ably run by Claudia Harris. Picking up on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Storey, about the importance of careers education, the advisers will also support schools and colleges to develop comprehensive strategies. However, more needs to be done to inform pupils of their options. We have recently agreed to institute a requirement for local authorities to write to the parents of year 9 students, informing them of the existence of UTCs, further education colleges and studio schools that offer courses for students starting at the age of 14.

My noble friend Lady Pidding made a good point about the need to do more to promote apprenticeships. We launched a new apprenticeships communications campaign in May last year, promoting the benefits of apprenticeships for young people. It builds on the previous successful Get In Go Far campaign. National Apprenticeship Week 2017 will take place in March, celebrating the positive impact of apprenticeships and traineeships.

As the noble Lord, Lord Watson, said, getting careers advice right is an important area—as the Minister, my honourable friend Robert Halfon, noted in his careers speech on Monday. I look forward to hearing more from noble Lords in Committee, including my noble friend Lord Baker, about approaches to strengthening careers advice.

My noble friend Lord Baker talked about maths, as did the noble Earl, Lord Listowel. We now have maths hubs and are supporting many maths programmes, such as Singapore maths and Shanghai maths. Over the last few years there has been a substantial increase in the number of pupils taking maths GCSEs and A-levels. My noble friend Lord Baker talked about the skills gap in STEM subjects and computing. We have introduced coding and computing into the curriculum for the first time. He said that there were just over 60,000 pupils taking computing at GCSE. I accept that that is a small number, but it is from a standing start. I pay tribute to my noble friend’s engagement in the digital economy through UTCs.

My noble friend Lord Lucas talked about schools having a dedicated person to engage with the world of work. I consider that to be very important. I know that before the last election the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, had the idea that this should be the case in every school. We are not as prescriptive as that, but certainly it happens in my schools. I think it is very important that schools try to find the money in their budget to do that because, when you see the effect of pupils’ engagement with the world of work, the payback is obvious. Regarding the school sector’s engagement with the world of work, we have certainly found that the door is wide open, with businesses and the professions being extremely willing to help.

The noble Baroness, Lady Morris, talked about the importance of flexibility, and I entirely agree. A framework of routes will ensure that choices are clearer for young people. She also raised concerns about assessment and the approach to assessment for apprentices, and I look forward to discussing this with her further in Committee. We recognise that there is more to do to ensure the breadth of the high-quality assessment organisations that we need, but we have been making good progress through the register for assessment organisations, run by the Skills Funding Agency.

The noble Lord, Lord Watson, asked why less money was spent on post-16 education. The best predictor of attainment at age 19 is attainment at age 16, and that is why we prioritise school funding. As we all know, students have many more pastoral issues, which are expensive to deal with, in the earlier years.

The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, referred to the governance of FE colleges. We talked about this when we met yesterday, and I have already discussed it with my ministerial colleague, Robert Halfon. For the academies programme, we have started something called Academy Ambassadors, recruiting pro bono non-executive directors from businesses and the professions to the boards of multi-academy trusts. As of this morning, we have already made 417 appointments, which is quite a pro bono movement up and down the country. I have discussed with my fellow Minister the possibility of encouraging FE colleges which need further support on their boards to engage with this programme.

The noble Baroness, Lady Garden, asked whether craft, creative and service skills are intended to be covered by technical education. The answer is that they are. The noble Lord, Lord Storey, talked about the relevance of courses, rather than students just doing courses that are popular. Of course, our destination data and data on jobs and pay rates, as well as on payback from courses for students, will in future enable students to make much more informed decisions.

My noble friend Lord Leigh asked about spending on adult education. The total spending power of the FE sector to support adult and 19-plus participation will be £3.4 billion by 2019-20. In cash terms, this is an increase of 40% compared with 2015-16. Within the £3.4 billion, the Government have maintained funding for the adult education budget, which supports adult skills participation in cash terms at £1.5 billion.

My noble friend Lord Baker used some statistics from Davos which were very persuasive. Industry and all of us are aware of these issues. They create an urgency, but I am as hopeful as the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, that this is the moment when we start to reverse the trend that we have all discussed today.

Today’s debate has been thoughtful and enlightening, and I look forward to further discussions. The noble Baroness, Lady Morris, said—

Lord Young of Norwood Green Portrait Lord Young of Norwood Green
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I asked about the application of the levy and the involvement of SMEs in apprenticeships. I do not know whether the Minister is intending to address those points.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I do not have time now, but I will write to the noble Lord on those points.

The noble Baroness, Lady Morris, said that the Bill looked like somebody who had lost their best friend. I think that it has found a number of new friends during this debate. As I said, I will write in response to the points that I have not covered. That letter will be sent to all noble Lords, with a copy placed in the House Library, alongside policy statements explaining the delegated powers set out in the Bill. I should also be very happy to meet noble Lords to discuss the Bill, along with my ministerial colleagues and officials, if they would find that useful. We are listening and will reflect on the important points raised today, and I look forward to more detailed scrutiny in Committee.

Bill read a second time and committed to a Grand Committee.

Technical and Further Education Bill

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

Read Full debate
Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 22nd February 2017

(7 years, 1 month ago)

Grand Committee
Technical and Further Education Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: HL Bill 88-I(a) Amendment for Grand Committee, supplementary to the marshalled list (PDF, 55KB) - (21 Feb 2017)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Lord Nash Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
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My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Hunt, for these four amendments. I am delighted to discuss matters relating to how we will ensure that the quality of technical education and apprenticeships is improved, as this is as the heart of our reforms. I echo what was said by the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, and the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, about the importance of improving the reputation and the esteem of apprenticeships and technical qualifications. On the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, and the noble Lord, Lord Young of Norwood Green, about the target of 3 million, I say, as I believe I did on the Floor of the House, that 3 million is the target but standards and quality must come first. The institute does not have a statutory responsibility to meet the target, but a statutory responsibility to have regard to quality.

Regarding Amendment 1, it is of course critical that reporting measures are in place to enable us to assess how well the programme is achieving quality outcomes. I agree, therefore, with the spirit of this amendment, which proposes that this type of information be monitored, measured and reviewed regularly. However, we do not need the amendment to achieve that aim. This amendment was discussed in Committee and on Report in other place, and the Minister of State for Apprenticeships and Skills gave a sound justification for why such an amendment is unnecessary.

The institute will be required to report on its activities annually under the Enterprise Act 2016 and the report must be placed before Parliament. This will include information on how the institute has responded to the statutory guidance provided to it by the Secretary of State. In addition, the Enterprise Act includes provisions enabling the Secretary of State to request information from the institute on any other topic she deems appropriate. The information set out in the amendment is already collected and published by the Secretary of State on the performance of the FE sector, which includes apprenticeships. To inform its activities, we would expect the institute to make good use of these data in its annual report, when it assesses its performance and impact each year. Indeed, the shadow institute has explained in its draft operational plan that it,

“will make more use of learner, employer and wider economy outcome data when reviewing the success of standards”.

The institute’s core role is to oversee and quality assure the development of standards and assessment plans for use in delivering apprenticeships and, we expect, from April 2018, college-based technical education. Much of the information that this amendment proposes that the institute should provide goes well beyond what is in scope of its remit. It would not therefore be appropriate for the institute to be asked to provide this type of information; it would be an unnecessary duplication of effort given that this information is already collected and published by the Secretary of State. It is right that Government collect and monitor this information, but where this falls outside the remit of the institute, it cannot reasonably be expected to provide it.

On the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Young of Norwood Green, about Ofsted’s resources, we have had detailed discussions with Ofsted and it is confident that it has enough resources to deliver against the current remit, including apprenticeships up to level 5, based on a risk-based approach. If its role expands, we will obviously discuss the resourcing level again. The noble Baroness, Lady Cohen, asked if she had got it right; I think she basically had but, to be clear, the IFA will approve all apprenticeships and funding for degree apprenticeships comes from the levy, like all others, and is subject to SFA rules. The Office for Students will have a role in regulation of HEIs but not in the approval of standards. If that is not clear, I shall try to set it out in writing so that it is clear to everybody, including myself.

Lord Young of Norwood Green Portrait Lord Young of Norwood Green
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I listened carefully to what the Minister said about the role of Ofsted and a risk-based approach. I shall try to define that. If I were Ofsted, I might think, “Do I need to worry too much about a Rolls-Royce apprenticeship, a BT one, or whatever?”—literally, not metaphorically. I could probably say that I would have a look at them but they are not at the top of my list. But if I was looking at an area where the numbers are very high—for instance, carers—that would worry me as there is a high turnover. I do not necessarily expect the Minister to have the answer now but would welcome more clarification on a risk-based approach.

If we look at the last time Ofsted said it was dissatisfied with a range of apprenticeships, to be fair the Minister responded to that and got rid of what were not really apprenticeships anyway. There was the six-month scenario. I would welcome further clarification so that we understand what is meant by the risk-based approach and the statement made by the Minister that Ofsted is confident it can ensure quality throughout the range of apprenticeships.

We welcome what the Minister said about the target, which he said even more explicitly here, but maybe my memory deceives me. It is welcome that the Minister places that emphasis on it.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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I am grateful to the noble Lord. I am meeting Ofsted shortly, either next week or the week after. I will certainly dig deeper into the issue so we can explain more what we mean by a risk-based approach.

The noble Baroness, Lady Donaghy, asked who takes the final decision about judging quality. The institute takes the final decision on whether the standard of assessment plan is high-quality enough, but obviously the market—in terms of whether employers will deliver these apprenticeships and whether the apprenticeships will be taken up—will be another good test of how good they are.

I fully understand the importance of Amendment 4 and agree that there should be appropriate measures to ensure that standards are in place and the quality of further education technical qualifications is maintained. The core role of the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education from April 2017 is to oversee and quality assure the development of standards and assessment plans for use in delivering apprenticeships, as I said, and, from 2018, college-based technical education. The institute will be required to report on its activities annually.

In developing these standards, consultation is a key feature of the institute. It already has a statutory duty to undertake its functions with regard to industry, commerce, finance, the professions and other employers regarding education and training within the institute’s remit. It must also ensure that the standards, assessment plans and, from 2018, technical education qualifications represent good value for money and are of appropriate quality. Also, in her strategic guidance, the Secretary of State may set out specific areas for the institute to take into consideration when performing its functions. When carrying out its core functions, the institute will need to consider the wider skills market, and will be expected to make good use of the data on outcomes made available to it through public data sources and surveys, and to explain in its annual report how it has deployed them.

Turning to Amendment 5, I agree that ensuring high-quality training provision is a very important part of our apprenticeship reforms, but I am not convinced that this amendment is desirable or necessary. It would introduce an additional scheme to regulate the quality of teaching in further education institutions. We believe that it is unnecessary to require in legislation for the Office for Students to run a quality assessment scheme in this case. The change proposed in the amendment would be a significant increase in the scope of the office, expanding its remit into, for example, apprenticeships, other than degree apprenticeships, and technical education at level 3. While I appreciate the noble Lord’s motivation, Ofsted already fulfils this function. Given the diversity of FE provision and providers and the overlap with schools in terms of provision at 16 to 18, the Government believe that Ofsted should continue to have the lead role in quality oversight for teaching in FE institutions to ensure continuity. I therefore believe that the proposed new scheme is unnecessary and duplicative and would lead to confusion.

Amendment 19 would require the institute to publish an apprenticeship assessment plan for each standard that it approved. As currently drafted, the Bill would allow the institute to decide whether an assessment plan is appropriate for each standard. This is to reflect its proposed future role in relation to technical education. While all standards can be used for both apprenticeships and technical education qualifications, some will be developed specifically for the college-based route and would be inappropriate for an apprenticeship, because of the nature of the occupation and the knowledge, skills and behaviours that need to be acquired. Technical education qualifications are not tested through an apprenticeship end-point assessment and therefore do not need an assessment plan. This amendment would therefore require something that was not necessary.

Lastly, let me deal with the understandable concern of the noble Lord, Lord Watson, about enforcing the low pay rules. HMRC is a strong enforcement body, which can and does take action to enforce the minimum wage for apprenticeships.

I hope that the noble Lord will feel reassured enough on the basis of my explanation not to press these four amendments.

Lord Lucas Portrait Lord Lucas (Con)
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My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that answer, but could he enlarge on what he said about how parents can have the confidence to encourage their child to do an apprenticeship? As I understand it, the IFATE is the body that will say whether an apprenticeship has been set up right. I would be grateful for my noble friend’s thoughts on how many such apprenticeships it has to cover, how often it will review them and what staff it intends to allocate to that job. I will come back to this frequently, because I am astonished that the IFATE thinks that it can do its work with 80 people.

Secondly, am I right in thinking that the IFATE also looks at the design of delivery—the whole process by which an apprenticeship will be delivered? Over how many instances of that does it think it will have oversight and what resources does it intend to devote to it? What burden of work does the IFATE think it has in this area and with what regularity does it expect to carry out its reviews?

Perhaps my noble friend could also enlarge on what he said about Ofsted. Ofsted is a pretty variable visitor to schools. To some it will come every six months and to others it will come every 16 years. Given that we are in a pretty unmapped part of the world, I hope that the Government are budgeting for fairly frequent Ofsted inspections to enable the reputation of this area to grow quickly. I would be grateful if my noble friend could tell me what Ofsted is planning in terms of the number of visits that it intends to make a year and the average frequency with which it expects to visit providers.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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I will write to my noble friend about that.

Lord Watson of Invergowrie Portrait Lord Watson of Invergowrie
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My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this lively debate. It is important that the Minister in his response began by saying—I wrote it down—that the 3 million target is a target but quality comes first, and that the institute is not responsible for meeting the target but for ensuring quality. Those words will be well received, and to have them in written in Hansard will be a comfort to many people. However, that is the aim and it has to be followed through to ensure that apprenticeships achieve what everyone in this room would want them to achieve.

There seem to be three primary aims for apprenticeships, at this time anyway. One is that the aforementioned word “quality” must be everywhere. The second is that they are able to produce young people, and perhaps not-so-young people, equipped to fill the skills gaps in the economy that we know are there. The third aim is that apprenticeships and everything surrounding them should ensure what my noble friend Lady Morris said: that they have public confidence and that parents in particular are not just willing but knowledgeable enough to guide their sons and daughters into apprenticeships with the confidence that they will get something worth while out of them. If that public confidence is not there, the 3 million target will not be met. I therefore hope that those three aims will be met as a result of the institute being reformed.

The Minister mentioned Ofsted. The noble Lord, Lord Lucas, covered some of the points I wanted to make but the Minister said Ofsted tells him that it has sufficient resources. I am tempted to say that it would, would it not? However, with a new head of Ofsted, I should have thought that this was a time to increase resources to take account of increased responsibilities and duties. There will clearly be far more apprenticeships than there have been. If Ofsted has the work deriving from Bill added to its ability to inspect schools—some are inspected rarely—it is hard to see how that can be done without additional resources. The Minister did not mention additional resources and I suspect that is because there may not be any, but it would be helpful if he could clarify the point about Ofsted. It is difficult for us to take on board that Ofsted could suddenly adopt extra responsibilities without additional resources.

The Minister also mentioned the Office for Students, particularly in respect of Amendment 5. He did not believe that it was appropriate for the OfS to have the regulating duty set out in that amendment and that the body’s role was regulating higher education. I agree that Ofsted will have the lead role but that does not preclude the OfS. I must ask the Minister for clarification because—with due deference to my noble friend Lady Donaghy—there are five acronyms in the letter he issued today for bodies involved in apprenticeships and technical education. The OfS is not one of them, yet it has some role in the provisions of the Bill. If Ofsted is going to take the lead role, it impacts on the resources argument. We need some clarification of what the OfS is expected to do.

I must also ask about another comment the Minister made in his response. He said that Ofsted had sufficient resources up to level 5. However, the chart at the back end of the letter we received today said that Ofsted inspects the quality of training for level 2 to level 3 apprenticeships. Perhaps that can be clarified because the two comments do not sit easily together.

The points made by my noble friend Lord Young, a former skills Minister, about the importance of safeguarding quality, and the Minister’s acceptance of the basis of these amendments, particularly Amendment 1, are important. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, for his enthusiastic welcome. It is good to have cross-party support in these situations.

To some extent, the Minister has answered the points that we put to him. Some concerns remain, not least about who will be doing what. He seeks refuge in HMRC being the answer to enforcing the national minimum wage and apprenticeship rates. In my experience, HMRC is unable to enforce the national minimum wage for adults, again because of a lack of resources. I do not think much attention has historically been given to apprenticeships, and clearly much more should be, as recommended in the report from the Low Pay Commission, which I outlined earlier. But you cannot just add additional duties to public bodies without giving them the resources to make sure they can meet those. However, we have covered most of the points in some depth. On that basis, I thank the Minister for his response and beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Watson of Invergowrie and Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, for the first of four amendments relating to the important matter of careers education and guidance.

We are committed to transforming the nature of careers guidance to underpin our reforms to technical education and apprenticeships. This will give everyone the necessary skills and training to open up opportunities and jobs for their future. We set out in the industrial strategy Green Paper that we will publish a comprehensive careers strategy for all ages. The Minister, Robert Halfon, set out the key principles of our approach in a speech last month. The strategy will look carefully at the role of careers provision in supporting people from primary school right through to retirement. It will look at how we can ensure widespread and high-quality support, and how that leads to jobs and security. The strategy will focus on giving people the information they need to access education and training through their working lives. This will include steps to raise the prestige of technical education and make it easier for people to apply for opportunities.

Our careers strategy will be at the heart of the Government’s focus on social justice. We want to nurture the aspirations of those who are disadvantaged and ensure that everyone, regardless of background, has the opportunity to succeed in life. I do not accept the suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, that stripping advice away from Connexions resulted in a decline in careers education. I have spoken to many young people who engaged with Connexions and I have to say that I found few fans. As the noble Lords, Lord Storey and Lord Knight, and the noble Baroness, Lady Whitaker, acknowledged, there is no previous golden age of careers education. It has always been pretty poor. What is clear is that the more engagement with the world of work that students in school have, the more engaged they become in their studies, and the more they realise why they are at school. McKinsey carried out a good study across Europe, which concluded that one-to-one careers advice was generally of little value and that the best experience was project-based working with employers.

That is why we have made such a significant investment in this area, including £70 million or so in the Careers & Enterprise Company and nearly £80 million in the National Careers Service. The work of both organisations provides an excellent base on which to build. The National Careers Service’s website receives over 24 million visits a year and supports more than 650,000 people in community locations with face-to-face advisers. The Careers & Enterprise Company, ably run by Claudia Harris, has made a great start. As my noble friend Lord Aberdare said, it has made good progress in rolling out its enterprise adviser network. Some 1,500 schools and colleges now have an enterprise adviser, helping them connect with local employers to provide experience of the workplace for young people. The company is also scaling up the number of business mentors—a subject close to the heart of the noble Baroness, Lady Morris—who work with young people at risk of underachieving or dropping out of education. Our goal is for 25,000 young people a year to benefit from this by 2020.

We will carefully evaluate the effect that our work has on careers provision. As of January, we are including destination data in national performance tables. They will help ensure that schools and colleges place an even greater importance on helping their students transition successfully to positive destinations. We fully acknowledge the importance of strong partnership working. As we develop the Government’s careers strategy, we will work with a diverse group of stakeholders, such as the Institute for Apprenticeships.

I welcome the obvious commitment to high-quality careers provision that noble Lords have shown in proposing this new clause. The Government share that commitment. However, it is our view that because we have set out the principles of our approach to careers and have confirmed that we will publish a strategy later this year, the proposed new clause is not necessary.

The noble Baroness, Lady Morris, said that people moaned about teachers—I am not quite sure in what context. Certainly, this Government are not moaning about them in the context of careers. Teachers are busy people and it is important that they identify the passions, interests and aptitudes of their pupils, but they cannot be expected to keep up with the rapidly changing world of work and make those important links to businesses that are so necessary. The noble Lord, Lord Young of Norwood Green, said how important they were. It is important that we link schools to the world of work. That is what the Careers & Enterprise Company and its advisers are all about. I personally believe that all schools should have one person focused purely on engaging with careers, the world of work and all those wonderful, free resources available to schools, if they would only engage with them, from many charities and employers. We do this in my academy group and I recommend it. The payback in terms of pupil engagement is massive and we should engage with this model in more detail. The noble Lord, Lord Knight, asked how we might revise the various pathways and qualifications. Obviously in this rapidly changing world we need to revise them on a regular basis.

I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Hunt, for tabling Amendment 9 and I am pleased that they share the Government’s enthusiasm for a new system that would give prospective technical education students clear information and better support throughout the application process. We consider this new system to be key to ensuring that technical education is more on a par with academic education. Therefore, it is important to get it right. While I appreciate the keenness of noble Lords to have detailed proposals for the new system as soon as possible, it is important that we take the time to explore all the options. This will allow us to ensure that the new system meets the needs of the students who use it. We are considering the scope and implications of the new system, including working with a number of key stakeholders to discuss the potential options. It is crucial that the new system can support our ambition to increase the number of people pursuing quality technical education options. This is too important to rush. We intend fully to deliver on proposals for the system as set out in the industrial strategy Green Paper published just last month, but it would not aid the development of this complex project to commit to particular timescales at this stage. For these reasons, I hope that the noble Lord will feel reassured enough to not move the amendment.

I thank my noble friend Lord Baker for tabling Amendment 11 and pay tribute to him for his work in developing the UTC programme, which is now offering young people a technical education at 48 UTCs across the country. I particularly enjoyed his unbiased commercial for them. The amendment would require schools to give education and training providers the opportunity to talk directly to pupils about the approved technical education qualifications and apprenticeships that they offer. I agree that it would strengthen the Bill by promoting technical education and apprenticeship opportunities more effectively so that young people can make more informed and confident choices at important transition points.

As a number of noble Lords have said, the range of information on education and training options that young people receive is too narrow. Ofsted’s 2013 careers survey, referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Storey, found that college-based technical education, training and apprenticeships were rarely promoted effectively. We need to address this if young people are to benefit from the Government’s ambitious skills reforms which are supported by this Bill. We want institutions to co-operate in the best interests of young people. A school that chooses not to invite a local UTC or an FE college to speak to young people denies them information about opportunities which might be better suited to their long-term career goals, and does them no favours at all.

We need to tackle the myth that apprenticeships and technical options are not suited to high-achieving pupils. A study by the Sutton Trust in 2014 found that 65% of teachers would not advise a pupil with the grades for university to pursue an apprenticeship. I agree with noble Lords that it is time to end this outdated approach. We must get away from a two-tier system of careers advice where the information that young people get from their schools fails to correct or even reinforces the impression that college-based technical education and apprenticeships are second best to academic study. Schools will be required by law to collaborate with UTCs, studio schools, further education colleges and other training providers. This will ensure that young people hear more consistently about alternatives to academic routes and are aware of all the routes to higher skills and into the workplace. This is vital if we are to set our technical education on a par with the best in the world. I thank my noble friend for this thoughtful amendment and I accept it.

Amendment 61 was spoken to by the noble Lord, Lord Storey. I begin by saying that I appreciate the intent behind this proposed new clause. Our careers strategy will not be effective unless schools and colleges are held to account for the quality of their careers provision. Ofsted has an important role to play in this regard. However, I do not believe that the amendment is necessary because the current inspection grading structure provides appropriate coverage of careers provision. Ofsted has already sharpened its approach to the inspection of careers provision. As part of standard Ofsted college inspections, inspectors make graded judgments on: effectiveness of leadership and management; quality of teaching, learning and assessment; personal development, behaviour and welfare; and pupil outcomes. Matters relating to careers provision feature in all four of these judgments.

It is important that, in reaching judgments, inspectors are able to balance their considerations on a range of aspects to form an overall view, rather than this being determined by one specific aspect of a college’s provision. Furthermore, Ofsted evaluates provision offered by the college, including 16-to-19 study programmes, apprenticeships and traineeships. Judgments about all the types of provision within the inspection framework are informed by consideration of the quality of careers provision, work experience and the development of employability skills.

Destination data are now a more significant part of college accountability. For the first time last month, destination data featured as a headline measure in 16-18 performance tables. This encourages a sharper focus on how well colleges prepare their students to make a successful transition. I hope I have provided sufficient reassurance that colleges are held to account properly for the quality of their careers provision. I urge the noble Lord to not move his amendment.

Turning to the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, I thank him for his interest in this important matter. I agree that it is essential that the careers information, advice and guidance provided covers the full range of options available so that young people can make important choices about their future pathways. Schools and colleges must secure independent careers guidance. In doing so, they should provide access to a range of activities such as employer talks or hearing from young apprenticeship ambassadors. However, it would not be appropriate for the Government to distort the independence of careers advice and guidance by finding recruiters who promoted a single pathway over others.

The Secretary of State already has very broad powers to fund education and training. Funding for schools is provided by the EFA, and it can implement any policies that require adjustments to government funding for schools. In addition, we do not think the amendment is necessary from a legal perspective. The Secretary of State can fund matters connected to apprenticeships under Section 101A, which was inserted into the Deregulation Act 2015, and we are able to fund matters connected to technical education under Section 101B, which is provided for in the Bill. In view of what I have said, I hope the noble Lord will not move his amendment.

Lastly, I shall comment on remarks made by the noble Baroness, Lady Wolf, about the extension of the succinct five-line amendment produced by my noble friend Lord Baker. I would be happy to set up a teach-in with the draftsmen in the department as to precisely why this is necessary, but I am assured that it is. With regard to her general comment about the number of policies that she seems to be burdened with, I would be delighted to hear from her—I am sorry to see that she is not in her place—about how we might reduce these. I always welcome suggestions for reducing bureaucracy. To take a leaf out of my noble friend Lord Baker’s book, when I finish this job I think I shall try to jump on the next piece of education legislation and try to bring in a law that precis should be taught in schools again at every possible opportunity. In view of what I have said, I hope noble Lords will feel able to respectively withdraw or not move their amendments.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Portrait Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
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My Lords, I thank the Minister for that comprehensive response. I am very pleased that he has accepted the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Baker. Like my noble friend Lady Morris of Yardley, I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Baker, and the UTC movement; I agree that UTCs are a force for good. It may have been an advert, but I thought the destination analysis that the noble Lord referred to—the fact that so much information is available—was good, and on the face of it the statistics in relation to apprenticeship and university places are impressive. All I would say to the Government is that I hope they hold their nerve in supporting UTCs in the future.

We are all agreed that we want to see quality advice given to young people and their parents. The careers strategy is going to be very important, and the Minister has set out some of the things that are going to be in it. I thought the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Wolf, were important, because often schools are burdened by many regulations and requirements. I guess in the end it will be made clear to schools in the statute guidance issued by the Minister—succinctly, I hope—what is required, without having to go into enormous detail about how that is going to be done. I recognise that that is difficult, but we come back to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, and my noble friend Lady Morris: we have to recognise that in the end we will want schools to wish to do it. Statutory intervention is necessary because that is not happening at the moment, but in the end we somehow have to get to a stage where schools want to do the right thing.

I agree with my noble friend that teachers are not going to be experts in careers advice—the Minister is absolutely right about that—but they can be very influential in setting the terms in which young people will listen to that careers advice. Perhaps we are mistaken: it is the teachers who should go to the Skills Show. Part of this has to be an educational programme with teachers about the opportunities for apprenticeships, alongside the links with business and employment that the noble Lord has talked about.

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Lord Lucas Portrait Lord Lucas
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My Lords, I support what my noble friend has said. The Government are creating a very powerful body. It will own the intellectual property in all the technical qualifications for the routes described in the Bill. There will be no other institution with any long-term interest in evolving or maintaining those qualifications or in developing a name and a reputation that parents and others can rely on. Below the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education, we have a series of short-term contracts. City & Guilds—I sit on its council, which everyone knows is nothing, but at least indicates affection—will disappear at this level. There will be no City & Guilds qualifications; they will become qualifications of the institute for apprenticeships. City & Guilds, being a charity, may bid for a seven-year contract to be an awarding organisation or to look after one or two of the routes, but it will not be awarding City & Guilds qualifications, rather it will just provide a function for the institute.

We are creating something much closer to the German model. We are losing what remains of the lodestars that the British Computer Society, City & Guilds and others have been providing in terms of the name and quality of their qualifications and replacing them with a new structure. This structure needs to be more powerful and conscious of its role than it is described as being in the Bill. I would like to see the Government follow the logic of what they have produced in the Bill and create a creature which is capable of the long-term responsibilities being placed upon it. It may be that the Government need to acquire City & Guilds, which is after all a quasi-government organisation anyway. Perhaps they need to take it on board to provide the strength, history, continuity and the people needed to run the sort of thing that is being set up in the Bill, or at least to provide the engine for it. I do not see how dispensing with all that the good awarding bodies have created and providing a structure which does not have the power to do what is necessary is a safe way of proceeding with a very important part of our education system.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Hunt, and the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, for the four amendments in this group. They address important issues relating to the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education and, in particular, what functions it will have. I will address my remarks only to these four amendments and will start by responding to Amendment 6. Ensuring that new further education institutions provide high-quality provision is of course of the utmost importance. Through the area reviews process for the further education sector, we are also putting the sector on a secure financial footing by ensuring that the provider base matches student demand.

However, the institute is to be established with a very specific remit in relation to the quality of reformed apprenticeships: to set the quality criteria for the development of apprenticeship standards and assessment plans; to approve or reject proposed standards or plans and review them periodically, as appropriate; and to ensure that all end-point assessments are quality assured, including the potential to quality assure them itself. It will also advise the Government on the maximum level of government funding available for each individual apprenticeship standard. And, of course, the proposals in this Bill seek to extend its functions to technical education qualifications and related matters. It has no role at all, and is not expected to have a role, in relation to the authorisation of new further education institutions, even those that will deliver technical education qualifications in the future. It is therefore not appropriate to make this amendment to the Bill in the light of the expected remit of the institute.

I turn to Amendment 8, for which I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, and I wish her a happy birthday.

Baroness Garden of Frognal Portrait Baroness Garden of Frognal
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What better way to spend it?

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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I hope that she will be pleased to hear that we plan to finish at 7.45 pm, so she will have time to enjoy it and celebrate.

The amendment includes a number of functions that are essential for the institute to be able to discharge its remit effectively. However, the institute already has responsibility for carrying out the vast majority of these functions. Setting, maintaining and overseeing standards for apprenticeships and technical education is absolutely central to its role. We will also ensure strong recognition and transferability through continuing to secure the delivery of apprenticeship certificates for reformed apprenticeships which have real value and worth for the employer and the apprentice. We expect that the institute will also have some responsibility in relation to certification, working with the Skills Funding Agency in its operational role of delivering certificates. As part of this, a record of all apprenticeship completions will be kept. The institute will use this to inform a number of its functions, including the review of standards in the context of the country’s wider skills needs.

Section ZA2 of the 2009 Act, inserted by the Enterprise Act 2016, requires the institute to have regard to the reasonable requirements of those with an interest in apprenticeships. This includes many of those listed in the amendment, including employers, apprentices and technical education students. The Government are able to write to the institute with guidance to which it must have regard when carrying out its functions; this can include asking it to consult certain bodies. We have just completed a consultation exercise on the draft of the first guidance document which asked the institute to work with particular organisations, such as those listed in the amendment, when carrying out particular functions.

We share the noble Baroness’s enthusiasm for the promotion of apprenticeships in schools and colleges. Legislation is in place that requires schools to inform pupils about apprenticeships and other options. Noble Lords will be aware that we have recently announced a careers strategy and we will consider how apprenticeships can be promoted in schools and colleges as part of the development of that strategy.

Moving on to Amendment 13, I fully understand the importance of ensuring that all young people are able to access a range of suitable education and training opportunities, including technical education and apprenticeships where appropriate. I know that this concern is shared by a great number of noble Lords, some of whom made eloquent and most welcome contributions at Second Reading, including the noble Lord, Lord Addington, my noble friend Lady Stedman-Scott and the noble Earl, Lord Listowel. The key to achieving this aim is to ensure that suitable provision is available to accommodate the needs of a wide range of learners. The effect of this amendment would be to require the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education, when exercising its functions, to have regard to the duty of local authorities to ensure that sufficient provision is available for all young people in their areas between the ages of 16 and 19, as well as for those young people in their areas aged 19 to 25 who are covered by an education, health and care plan.

I would like to reassure noble Lords that I am absolutely mindful of the need to ensure that the institute takes account of the needs of all learners, including those who have had a difficult start in life or who have special educational needs and disabilities. However, legal provision has already been made to ensure this. Section ZA2(1) of the 2009 Act, when it is commenced in April, will require the institute to take account of a range of factors, including the reasonable requirements of persons who wish to undertake training and education, when carrying out its functions. This will apply regardless of the type of provider serving those learners or indeed how that provision has been commissioned. As many young people as possible should be able to access technical education, which is valued by employers and has been approved by the institute. Noble Lords will also be aware that the Equality Act 2010 places a duty on public sector bodies, including the institute, to promote equality of opportunity across all forms of education and to ensure that their actions do not disadvantage those with protected characteristics, including disability, pregnancy and maternity.

Our wider reforms will also support access for those who have low prior attainment or require additional support. In particular, the transition year will provide young people aged 16 or older where their education has been delayed, with tailored catch-up provision to enable them to access the same range of education and training opportunities as their peers, getting them back on track and helping to tackle the challenges they face obtaining qualifications valuable to their future career prospects.

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Lord Watson of Invergowrie Portrait Lord Watson of Invergowrie
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for that response and thank the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, for her contribution. I should have said at the start that we support the suggestions in Amendment 8. I noticed that the Minister said that most of these were already covered. That impacts on a point that I will come back to in a minute about the operational plan for the institute.

The Minister somewhat took the wind out of my sails on Amendment 6 by saying that there was no role for the institute with regard to new institutions. I take it that just the Secretary of State would have the ability to give them the green light, if that is the case. In which case, I am rather surprised that it got accepted as an amendment. None the less, I hear what the Minister says, and if that is the case, so be it.

On Amendment 14 in particular, the Minister did not answer a couple of the questions I put to him. One was the point about the percentages for categories of those underrepresented in the take-up of apprenticeships. I mentioned the 20% target for people from black and minority ethnic communities and asked whether there were plans for anything similar for women, care leavers and indeed any other underrepresented groups. I am happy for him to write to me on that. I do not suggest what the percentages should be, but these are underrepresented, so by definition it is appropriate that some action is taken to bring them more into line with other groups.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

We do not intend to have any targets, but as I said, we intend there to be the expectation that the opportunity to participate should be widely available for all students.

Lord Watson of Invergowrie Portrait Lord Watson of Invergowrie
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Yes, but that is a bit woolly. Students have always had the opportunity; the point is that certain groups are not taking it up in sufficient numbers. It would be interesting to know why black and minority ethnic people have been specifically identified, and yet others have not. If work needs to be done there to bring underrepresented groups more into the mainstream, surely the institute should concentrate particularly on that. However, that would impact on the institute’s operational plan. In the Minister’s letter today, he mentioned that the shadow institute’s draft operational plan is out for consultation but only for a few more days. He said that that will provide more detail on how the institute would be expected to deliver its role. I have not yet looked at that but I will do so. I hope that it will have something to say on broadening participation because we may wish to return to that matter on Report.

For the moment, we have covered the issues and I thank the Minister for his response. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Lord Aberdare Portrait Lord Aberdare
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I add only one very small point: it seems to me that part of the problem with the esteem in which some of these technical and professional qualifications are held is that they are seen in a rather narrow light. The word “technical” rather reinforces the problem. A lot of people who might be interested in creative or public sector qualifications or some others might be put off by the word “technical”, which makes it seem more narrow than it needs to be.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Garden of Frognal, and the noble Lord, Lord Storey, for tabling this amendment. I understand that they wish to ensure that all technical or work-based qualifications are included within these reforms and can benefit from them. I assure them that all relevant and appropriate occupations in the economy will be covered within the technical education routes and the qualifications offered to students following these routes. However, having thought carefully about how to achieve this, we hope to address it in the following way.

Each route, of which there are currently 15, provides a framework for grouping together occupations where there are shared training requirements. Each route will have an occupational map. Each map will identify all the occupations in the scope of that route, such as the digital route or the engineering and manufacturing route. These maps are currently being developed through a robust, evidence-based process, with input from employers, employer representatives, industry professionals and professional bodies.

It is important to be clear, however, that it will not be appropriate to include some occupations within the routes. The independent panel of the noble Lord, Lord Sainsbury, established the principle, which we have adopted, that technical education must require the acquisition of both a substantial body of technical knowledge and a set of practical skills valued by industry. As the panel made clear, there are some unskilled or low-skilled occupations which do not meet this requirement, as they can be learned quickly and on the job; such as that of a retail assistant. Therefore, it is not necessary or appropriate to offer technical education qualifications to people wishing to work in one of these occupations. It would not be the best use of their time or of taxpayers’ money.

With this exception, I can assure the noble Baroness and the noble Lord that within the technical education routes there will be comprehensive coverage of the skilled occupations that are vital to the success of our economy. I can also assure them that the occupational maps will be reviewed regularly to ensure that they continue to reflect the needs of industry. We will listen to any evidence-based case from an employer who identifies a gap, if it meets the above criteria and they can demonstrate employer need and a genuine skills gap. I hope that the noble Baroness and the noble Lord will feel reassured enough to withdraw this amendment.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Portrait Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Before the noble Baroness responds, I have two points. The Minister quoted from the Sainsbury review the definition of “technical” education. Why has that not found itself in the Bill? If the Sainsbury definition is going to set the boundaries of the 15 pathways, would it not have been helpful to pin it down some more? The noble Baroness, Lady Garden, is absolutely right to say that it would have been helpful to have that in the Bill.

My second point comes back to the issue raised by the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare. Sadly, in this country, “technical” does not have the status that we want it to have. You cannot legislate for that, but as we go through this it would have been interesting to hear from the Government how, in general, they think we are going to raise the status of the word “technical”, so that when young people in particular consider a technical education, they see it as something to aspire to.

Baroness Garden of Frognal Portrait Baroness Garden of Frognal
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am sorry that this has become more complicated to involve occupational maps and routes. I thought it was a very simple explanation: that there are different emphases in different vocational routes, for the want of a better word. Actually, included in the routes there are such things as “hair and beauty”. There are technical elements to that, but there is a tremendous amount of personal skills and creativity also. Also included are “creative and design” and “catering and hospitality”. There are technical aspects in just about all of these, but that is not their prime activity or focus. The people who go into those sorts of fields are not doing so because they love doing technical things but because they like working with people and creating things, and doing things that are not primarily technical.

I am sorry if the word “technical” has now been downgraded, but we really are running rings round this. We apparently do not like and have abandoned the word “vocational” because it is considered downmarket. The word “technical” was supposed to raise the profile and be a lot better, but now, suddenly, here are the noble Lords, Lord Hunt and Lord Aberdare, saying that “technical” is a pretty rubbish word too. I always quite liked “work-based”, which is one of the terms that we used, as well as “practical”. There are other terms that might not be deemed quite so lower class as “technical”.

As I said, my amendment was intended simply to try to protect all those people working in fields where they think of themselves primarily not as technical but as creative, with personal skills and so on, which is what the Government are trying to include in the Bill. I accept that the Institute for Apprenticeships has to encompass all those routes too. I am sorry but I may have to bring this back on Report. We will perhaps have a discussion before then to see whether the noble Lord can think of a really upmarket word to take in all the different aspects of practical skills that we are looking for.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I shall be delighted to have a very technical conversation with the noble Baroness about this. I heard what she said about words meaning what they mean, but I am sure that she did not quite mean what she said when she used the expression “lower class”. However, we can have a discussion about this to see whether we think that anything more needs to be done.

Technical and Further Education Bill

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

Read Full debate
Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 27th February 2017

(7 years, 1 month ago)

Grand Committee
Technical and Further Education Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: HL Bill 88-III Third marshalled list for Grand Committee (PDF, 86KB) - (27 Feb 2017)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Lord Knight of Weymouth Portrait Lord Knight of Weymouth (Lab)
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My Lords, I shall speak briefly in support of this amendment. I want to remind your Lordships and the Minister that FE colleges come in a number of different guises and there are some specialist FE colleges for which this is particularly important. I am particularly a fan of the Ada Lovelace College—the newest college, I think, to be given FE status by the department—which is the National College for Digital Skills, based in Haringey. We have an acute shortage of digital skills throughout this country, including here in London, and there is a massive demand for them. If we can allow more international students to come and take advantage of studying at that college, we would do our economy and some of those young people an enormous service. I urge the Minister to listen carefully, as is his wont, and to be sympathetic to this amendment.

Lord Nash Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, the Committee will be aware that this issue is already being considered as part of the Higher Education and Research Bill. As a Government, we will want to consider our position across the board, and I can assure noble Lords that we are doing this. This topic is best discussed in the context of the Higher Education and Research Bill, where there will be ample opportunity to consider the issue during the forthcoming Report stage. However, I will briefly address the more specific points of the amendment.

While there are some further education colleges that have centres of expertise or offer higher level study that attract a significant number of international students, such as the one referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Knight, as a whole the number of international students in FE is much smaller than for the higher education sector. Courses are on average shorter, and delivery is more locally focused and reflects local economic priorities. Where colleges take significant numbers of international students, the issues will parallel those that have been considered through proposed amendments to the Higher Education and Research Bill.

I do not propose to repeat the arguments that my noble friend Lord Younger of Leckie made during that debate. I do wish to emphasise that we have and will continue to set no limit on the number of genuine international students who can come here. The controls in place are there to prevent abuse of the system and ensure that the reputation of the UK educational sector continues to be internationally renowned. The immigration statistics are controlled independently by the Office for National Statistics. It is not up to the Government to create the statistical definitions. Our responsibility is to set the policy, which in this case places no limit on numbers of students.

As I have said, there will be an opportunity to debate these issues further as part of the Higher Education and Research Bill, which is the more appropriate forum. In those circumstances, I hope that the noble Lord will withdraw the amendment.

Lord Watson of Invergowrie Portrait Lord Watson of Invergowrie
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the two noble Lords who contributed to the debate and the Minister for his response. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, about the positive message that this sends. That is what I was trying to get across in moving this amendment.

Equally, I accept the Minister’s use of the term “abuse of the system”. No one would be tolerant of that at all. There were such situations in the past in the case particularly of language schools. Some of them had been—to use about the kindest adjective that could be applied to them—“bogus”. Very largely, these have been driven out of the system. I would not say that there is no abuse, but there is not a great deal. Opening up the further education sector does not necessarily increase the likelihood of such abuse.

I take the Minister’s point that the Higher Education and Research Bill is the place to deal with that. Fortunately for him, he will not have to do that, but I will be returning to these subjects next week. I wanted to draw attention to the fact that, hopefully, the further education sector has the opportunity to broaden its scope a bit. Whereas local provision is what it is mainly about, there is scope to expand that and I hope that the sector will take the opportunity to do so and will not be prevented from doing so through the inability to bring students in from abroad.

With those remarks, I beg leave to withdraw this amendment.

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These sorts of things lie behind the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Hunt. This side of the Committee is trying very hard to persuade the Government to adopt these amendments, because we are all desperately keen that this apprenticeship system should work. We are very keen to get to 3 million apprenticeships, if we can. We do not think we are taking seriously enough the role of enforcement, and which organisations are doing it.
Lord Nash Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
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I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Watson of Invergowrie and Lord Hunt, for this amendment. I could not help but notice that the moment the noble Baroness, Lady Donaghy, made the very inappropriate comparison with Superman that I appeared, according to the annunciator anyway, to be in two places at once, as was pointed out to me by the noble Lord, Lord Watson of Invergowrie. I am not sure that even Superman managed that, but at least I am back now.

It is essential that all the public organisations that have a role in the delivery of apprenticeships and technical education, as elucidated by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, work together to ensure a coherent system which delivers a high-quality result.

The noble Lord asked the perfectly fair question, “Who is in charge?”. The Government will work to ensure that the system works and will keep this under review via the accountability statement, which we will share with noble Lords.

The noble Lord asked what the Minister’s role in this was. I guess, if the system does not work, Ministers will intervene to change the system, but individual bodies are responsible for their individual part of the system. The strategic guidance document will ask the institute to carry out a leadership role—a co-ordination role—across the system.

In response to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Storey, on quality versus quantity, I repeat a point I made on the first day of Committee that our target is 3 million. We believe it is a realistic target, but quality must come first.

Paragraph 10(1)(b) of Schedule A1 to the Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Act 2009, which will be inserted into that Act by the Enterprise Act 2016, will allow the Institute for Apprenticeships to co-operate with any organisation that it deems necessary for it to carry out its specific functions. It is therefore unnecessary to include the requirement in the Bill.

The Bill includes a data-sharing provision to allow the named organisations freely to share data and information between them, to ensure that they can all deliver their functions properly. This, in addition to the legislation referred to above, is all that is needed in primary legislation to allow those bodies to work together.

In addition, the amendment would require the institute to co-operate with the named organisations but, without a similar requirement on them in return, the effect would be unbalanced. However, that is not my main point.

It is in the interests of all of the organisations named in this amendment to work well together to enable them to fulfil their statutory duties. Past experience demonstrates such a willingness. As the legislation will permit this, we see no need for a further requirement. In preparation for the launch of the institute in April this year, these organisations and others are working together to agree an accountability statement which sets out each of their separate roles and responsibilities in relation to apprenticeships. There is a very positive working relationship between them and a palpable desire to ensure the institute is a real success.

In answer to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Young of Norwood Green, about how Ofsted will carry out its risk assessment approach, I am meeting Ofsted later this week and will discuss this with it in some detail and write to the noble Lord and copy my letter to other interested Peers. I hope that the noble Lord will feel reassured enough by what I have said to withdraw the amendment.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Portrait Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister. We always thought that he had super powers and are glad to have confirmation of it. This debate has been helpful.

The Minister has promised an accountability statement and it would be helpful to have that before Report. He said that Ministers will intervene and, importantly, that the institute will have a leadership and co-ordinating role. One question is whether it would be helpful to have that backed up by some legislative provision to reinforce it, which is perhaps something that we can come back to.

On the question of the 3 million and quality, I hear what the Minister says. I take his point that 3 million is deliverable but that quality comes first. The question I would like to ask him is whether the Treasury and No. 10 Downing Street share that view. My experience is that, when push comes to shove, the key indicator on which his department will be held accountable will be the 3 million, rather than the quality indicator. Essentially, we are trying to give some cover to the Government to say that at the bottom line quality is more important than the numbers.

I take the point about the drafting of the amendment —that the duty should have been reciprocal—and we can probably come back to it, but this has been a very helpful short debate. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

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Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Hunt, for their two amendments relating to issues of representation for the Institute for Apprenticeships.

With regard to Amendment 16, the institute should obviously understand the views of those people undertaking this training to ensure that it is meeting their needs, because it is the organisation responsible for apprenticeships and technical education. Section ZA2 of the 2009 Act, inserted by the Enterprise Act 2016, already requires the institute to have regard to,

“the reasonable requirements of persons who may wish to undertake education and training within”,

the institute’s remit, and to other interested persons. The institute is also required to engage interested groups as part of the review of standards and assessment plans.

The institute has purposely been established as an independent organisation, with high-level responsibilities set out in legislation but with the freedom to decide how it delivers them. It is essential for the credibility of apprenticeships and the wider apprenticeship reform programme that the institute retains as much autonomy as possible. Government can provide the institute with advice and guidance about how it could carry out its functions. It has to have regard to this advice and must provide justification if it chooses not to follow it. The Government recently consulted on a draft of their guidance to the institute for 2017-18, which includes a request for the institute to establish an apprenticeship panel to advise the board. The shadow institute has already committed to doing this by the time that it is launched and good progress is being made. Members for the first apprenticeship panel have already been shortlisted and an initial meeting is planned for March.

Lord Watson of Invergowrie Portrait Lord Watson of Invergowrie
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

On that point, can the Minister say how this was done? Were applications invited?

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will have to write to the noble Lord about that.

As well as advising the board, the first panel will decide how the panel will be run, including how future members will be recruited. The proposal is for the institute to take on responsibility for technical education from April 2018. I can confirm that it would be our intention to include a request in its guidance for 2018-19 for a panel to represent those undertaking technical education.

Amendment 18 would stipulate the make-up of the group of persons whom the institute could approve to develop a standard. In particular, it would require that the group includes a range of employers and at least one provider. I agree that it is essential that the standards that form the basis of reformed apprenticeships and new technical education qualifications are of high quality, and meet the needs of a wide range of employers and learners, but I am not convinced that this amendment is necessary. I have already explained that the institute needs to be independent from government to be able to undertake its functions with credibility. It will be well placed to make decisions about who can develop a new standard, based on a range of factors, and it is right that it should be given the flexibility to do so without the constraints that this amendment would impose.

However, in my remarks on the preceding amendment I referred to the strategic guidance providing a vehicle for government to advise the institute. The current draft of the guidance includes the recommendation on who should be able to develop standards and makes it clear that we will expect the institute to continue to ensure that standards are developed primarily by employers, but with input from others with the relevant knowledge and experience, such as professional bodies, other sector experts, providers and assessment organisations. If the institute decides not to follow the government guidance it must give reasons in its annual report, but it is crucial that, as an expert, independent organisation, it retains the ability to make decisions itself about delivery, taking into account all the relevant circumstances. We believe that our approach strikes the right balance. I hope that, on the basis of my explanation, the noble Lord will feel reassured enough to withdraw this amendment.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Wolf, for her Amendment 36A. I am sure it was prompted by concerns for publicly funded learners who may find themselves without a place to complete their course in the event that an independent provider shuts down. I share her concerns but just as with FE bodies, the likelihood of independent training providers becoming insolvent is low. The Skills Funding Agency has a robust entry process in place to ensure providers are capable of delivering a high-quality learning offer to loans learners. Once providers have met the entry criteria and are eligible to offer loans-funded provision to learners they are subject to a range of further measures and controls, including review of their financial health, audit, and assessment of their qualification achievement rates. Providers are also required to comply with robust funding and performance rules. A small handful of providers is facing difficulty, but the numbers affected by these cases represent less than 1% of providers operating in the advanced learner loans programme.

Baroness Wolf of Dulwich Portrait Baroness Wolf of Dulwich
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

If it is not necessary to have protection because not very many people get affected, why is it necessary to have it for further education colleges, which also do not fail very often?

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will come to that in my explanation. These are private companies and it is not our role to interfere. I will elaborate in a moment.

In cases where independent providers delivering publicly funded training courses have closed down, our first priority is to support any publicly funded learners affected, ensuring they can continue their courses with minimal disruption. The SFA works closely with the SLC to ensure that, wherever possible, we identify a suitable alternative training provider or college where individuals can complete their learning. We have been doing just that in a recent case, which received a certain amount of publicity, when a provider went into liquidation in November: we have matched all the learners to alternative provision.

However, these are private companies, and it is not for the Government to involve themselves in their financial matters any more than those of other private companies. This is, essentially, the point I made in answer to the noble Baroness. We will always work to support learners affected in cases where the provider fails and it is right that we do so, in the way I have outlined. But as to whether we should have a special administration regime, we cannot make the same special and complex arrangements, which will often involve significant and additional public funding, where a private company has failed. This is, and must remain, a matter for the company and its creditors and shareholders. I hope the noble Baroness will agree, and will therefore not press her amendment.

Lord Young of Norwood Green Portrait Lord Young of Norwood Green
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I asked how they are subject to scrutiny and accountability for the quality of service they are providing, never mind the financial side. I gave the Minister an example where I thought they would. I take the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Storey, that there are some good examples of training providers, but who scrutinises the quality of service they are actually providing? That was what I wanted to know.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is Ofsted.

Baroness Wolf of Dulwich Portrait Baroness Wolf of Dulwich
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am happy not to press my amendment, but I would like some clarification on why a private company which is often entirely dependent on public funding should be in some sense exempt from any requirements. This does not seem to be consistent with much of what goes on elsewhere in the public sector and what it requires of people.

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Moved by
33: Schedule 1, page 28, line 37, leave out from beginning to end of line 13 on page 29 and insert—
““40AA Sharing of information by or with the Institute(1) The Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education may disclose information to a relevant person for the purpose of a relevant function of that person.(2) For disclosure of information by the Institute for the purposes of its own functions, see paragraph 10 of Schedule A1.(3) A relevant person may disclose information to the Institute for the purpose of—(a) a function of the Institute, or(b) a relevant function of that person.(4) In this section “relevant person” means—(a) Ofqual,(b) the OfS,(c) Ofsted, or(d) a prescribed person.(5) In this section “relevant function” means—(a) in relation to Ofqual, the OfS or Ofsted, a function of that body, so far as the function relates to England;(b) in relation to a prescribed person, a prescribed function of that person, so far as the function relates to England.(6) In this section—“Ofqual” means the Office of Qualifications and Examinations Regulation;“OfS” means the Office for Students;“Ofsted” means—(a) the Office for Standards in Education, Children’s Services and Skills, and (b) Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Education, Children’s Services and Skills.(7) Regulations under this section prescribing functions of a person may prescribe all of the person’s functions.”
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, these government amendments will allow the Secretary of State to make sure that the data-sharing gateway in new Section 40AA remains fit for purpose through regulations. The regulations can include persons to whom the institute can disclose information or who can disclose information to the institute, and the functions about which the information may be disclosed. New Section 40AA will establish data-sharing gateways between the institute and Ofsted, Ofqual, the Office for Students or any other person set out in the regulations. There is already a separate provision for the institute to share information in relation to its own functions.

The bodies with which the institute is likely to need to co-operate and share information to do its job effectively are expected to change over time. That is particularly important given the reforms in higher and technical education. For example, the Quality Assurance Agency will not be named specifically in legislation and the quality arrangements in that area may change over time. It will be important to ensure that the institute can work effectively with whatever body is designated in that case, as well as any other bodies which take on roles in relation to education and training. All the disclosures under the gateways take precedence over any non-statutory restrictions, but they would be subject to all the important safeguards in the Data Protection Act 1998.

I reassure noble Lords that I am, however, absolutely mindful of the need to ensure full parliamentary scrutiny each time the Section 40AA power is used. Although not common in relation to similar regulations, where the negative procedure will be used, it is proposed that these regulations will be subject to the affirmative procedure. In view of this, I hope that noble Lords will accept this amendment.

Lord Lucas Portrait Lord Lucas
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Will the DfE be able to access this data, for instance to try to understand what history at school leads to what sort of performance in technical qualifications and apprenticeships?

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Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

If I may answer my noble friend Lord Lucas’s point, the answer is yes under a separate provision in the Bill. On the point about the difference between relevant and prescribed, a prescribed person is somebody set out in regulations and a relevant person is set out in the Bill or in regulations.

Amendment 33 agreed.
Moved by
34: Schedule 1, page 29, line 13, at end insert—
“27A In section 40D(3)(interpretation of Part 1A)—(a) the words from “affects” to the end become paragraph (a);(b) after that paragraph insert— “(b) authorises the disclosure of any information in contravention of any provision made by or under any Act which prevents disclosure of the information.””
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Moved by
35: Schedule 1, page 29, line 33, at end insert—
“29A In section 262(6)(orders and regulations subject to affirmative procedure), after paragraph (aa) insert—“(aza) regulations under section 40AA;”.”
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Moved by
36: After Clause 6, insert the following new Clause—
“Records etc
(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision for or in connection with—(a) the delivery to the registrar of companies of documents that relate to the insolvency of further education bodies;(b) the registrar’s function of keeping records of information contained in such documents under section 1080(1) of the Companies Act 2006;(c) the publication of, or access to, those records or related information.(2) The regulations may, in particular, provide for any provision made by or under the following sections of the Companies Act 2006 to apply (with or without modifications) in relation to those documents or records.

Provision of Companies Act 2006

Description

sections 29 and 30

copies of resolutions etc to be forwarded to the registrar

section 859K

registration of enforcement of security

sections 1077 and 1079

public notice of receipt of certain documents

sections 1081, 1084 and 1085 to 1091

keeping and inspection of register of companies

sections 1093 to 1097

correction or removal of material on companies register

section 1104

documents relating to Welsh companies

sections 1112 to 1113

supplementary provisions

(3) The power under subsection (1) includes power—(a) to impose requirements on a person who delivers a document to the registrar in relation to the insolvency of a further education body to provide supplementary information;(b) to confer power on the registrar to make rules in accordance with section 1117 of the Companies Act 2006 imposing such requirements.(4) Provision made under this section is in addition to any applicable provision made by Part 35 of the Companies Act 2006 or elsewhere. (5) Regulations under this section are subject to the affirmative resolution procedure.(6) Section 1114(1) of the Companies Act 2006 (meaning of document etc) applies for the purposes of this section.”
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, we have tabled this amendment to ensure that should an FE body become insolvent, there will be an accessible public record of documents relevant to the insolvency procedure for that body. FE bodies that are statutory corporations are exempt charities and not companies. As such, they are not subject to filing requirements with any particular regulatory body, although they are required to keep audited accounts and to publish them, for example on their websites.

When the Bill was originally drafted, it was thought that we could rely upon certain provisions of the Companies Act 2006 so that an insolvency practitioner could file documents required by the court as part of any insolvency procedure, including education administration. However, it is now clear that specific provision is needed within the Bill to ensure that an accessible and workable file for insolvent FE bodies may be created and managed by the registrar. This amendment therefore creates a new clause to provide for exactly that and allows the Secretary of State to make regulations relating to the delivery of documents about the insolvency of FE bodies to the registrar, about the registrar’s function of keeping records of information within those documents and about the publication of and public access to such records or information.

The power in the new clause also allows the Secretary of State to permit the Registrar of Companies to make rules relating to filing requirements, such as about the form of documents to be filed. As I hope the Committee will appreciate, this amendment is necessary to permit the paperwork of an insolvency procedure for an FE body to be properly managed. I beg to move that this amendment be accepted and that the new clause stand part of the Bill.

Amendment 36 agreed.

Technical and Further Education Bill

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 1st March 2017

(7 years, 1 month ago)

Grand Committee
Technical and Further Education Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: HL Bill 88-III(a) Amendment for Grand Committee, supplementary to the third marshalled list (PDF, 54KB) - (28 Feb 2017)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Lord Nash Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
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My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Hunt, for these three amendments, to the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, for his remarks supporting them and to the noble Lord, Lord Storey, for his comments.

These amendments relate to assessing the impact of the proposed insolvency regime on further education colleges. Before I deal with individual amendments, I shall respond to some of the general points made by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, and if I do not cover them all I will certainly write to him. Following the area reviews, all colleges should be on a sound financial footing for the longer term. That is part of the reason behind the area reviews. These measures will not come into force until after the recommendations of the area reviews have been implemented. There will be no closures as a result of the reviews. Colleges are working together to remove overcapacity in their area and to better align their offer to local employers’ needs. Some colleges may merge as a result, but there will be no insolvencies as a direct result of the reviews.

I believe that Amendment 37 is intended to ensure that the special objective offers protection not only to existing students of an insolvent college but to those of the future. In that regard, noble Lords and I share common ground. Indeed, that is the purpose of our programme of area reviews. We are working with colleges, local authorities and other local stakeholders to ensure that FE bodies are put on a strong and resilient footing. This is the best way to safeguard the interests of all students. Delivering strong, sustainable colleges that can provide young people now and in the future with the opportunity to pursue courses right for them will offer them the opportunity to achieve their full potential.

In the unlikely event that an FE body were to become insolvent, our first priority would, rightly, be to the existing students, whose studies are likely to be directly affected. That is the purpose of the special objective. While we cannot know how the education administrator will propose to achieve the special objective in every insolvency, as that will clearly depend on the circumstances of each case, it seems likely that the preferred solution would be to find an alternative provider to take over provision at the insolvent body’s campus. That would almost certainly prove least disruptive for the students involved. However, that may not be possible or the right outcome. It might ultimately be better for existing and future students to attend other colleges where they may have access to a greater choice of course, better facilities and the like.

I recognise noble Lords’ concern that moving to a different provider might mean travelling greater distances, with a consequent increase in travel costs. While many students would be willing to travel to access the right provision—a point the FE commissioner made when he gave evidence to the Committee in the other place—there will be those for whom this would be a challenge. Colleges are already able to provide financial support to help eligible students with their travel costs, and this will extend to students transferring in from an insolvent college. In addition, the education administrator may be able to make provision for such costs where it is for the purpose of pursuing the special objective.

There is the possibility that a college that is the only FE provider in the wider area may become insolvent; for example, in a rural area such as Devon or Cornwall. Were that to happen, I assure noble Lords that the Government could not and would not ignore their wider responsibility to students in the area. No Government would leave an area without any FE provision. However, this is a matter for the Government of the day to consider, not the education administrator.

I shall now respond to Amendment 38. Clause 14 sets out the fundamental principle underpinning the special administration regime we are introducing in the Bill. In the unlikely—I must emphasise “unlikely”—event that an FE body becomes insolvent, we are acting to ensure that disruption to students’ studies is avoided or minimised as far as possible. That is the purpose of the special objective set out in subsection (1). Pursuit of that objective will govern all the actions of the education administrator. It will be for the education administrator to decide how the special objective can best be achieved. Whether it is one of the solutions suggested in subsection (2), a combination of them or something different will depend on the special circumstances of the college or FE body. Only by considering these issues will the education administrator be in a position to come to a view on the most appropriate approach. As we all know, something that might be right in one situation will not necessarily be right in another, so, in a way, I agree with Amendment 38. Noble Lords are right that there are a number of assessments that the education administrator should carry out before taking any action to achieve the special objective, including assessments of the capacity of other bodies or institutions to undertake any additional functions or provide education to additional students.

Noble Lords are right, too, that there should be discussion with those most directly affected by the decisions to be taken—the students, the staff and their unions. Where I think we differ is that I do not believe such assessments or discussions need to be prescribed in legislation. As my colleague the Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills said when this matter was debated in the other place:

“It is inconceivable that they,”


by which he meant the education administrator,

“would draw up proposals for achieving the special objective without having had discussions with a wide range of stakeholders, such as the Further Education Commissioner, student bodies and others, and without considering a wide range of pertinent issues”.—[Official Report, Commons, 9/1/17; col. 113.]

I wholeheartedly share this view. As the Minister made clear in the other place—and I do here today—it is our clear expectation that the education administrator will engage fully with those who have the knowledge and experience to aid them in developing their proposals: the commissioner, staff and students, local authorities and other providers.

When we refer to avoiding or minimising disruption to student studies, this is not just about keeping students’ timetables unchanged or ensuring that they remain at the same campus—although, in reality, this might well be the case. It is also about ensuring that where it is necessary to transfer students, factors such as those identified by noble Lords are taken into consideration. In developing their proposals, the education administrator will be expected to consider the quality of the alternative provision, as well as the impact of travel distances if students need to complete their studies at another location.

Of course, some trade-off or compromise between the different factors might be necessary, but this will be for the education administrator to address in the particular circumstances. If students find themselves having to travel to another location, I recognise that they may incur additional travel costs. Where this is the case they may be eligible, as I have said, for the 16-to-19 bursary fund, or the education administrator may consider setting up a specific scheme for them paid for by from any funding provided by the Secretary of State or Welsh Ministers.

I turn now to Amendment 39. In developing the special administration regime we have been concerned to ensure that the process should take no longer than necessary. Concerns have previously been expressed, including during debate in the other place, about the time a special administration might take. I share these concerns. However speedily the special administration is concluded, it will be too long for those involved. Staff, students and creditors will want certainty about what will happen to them at the earliest opportunity. Amendment 39, which seeks to require the education administrator to consult students, staff and the trade unions of the FE body before making any decisions on how to achieve the special objective, would inevitably lengthen the process but would be unlikely in reality to have any real benefit to the education administrator. Indeed, it may fetter his or her discretion to find the best way of achieving the special objective to the disadvantage of all concerned.

We are not disputing that the issues raised by noble Lords are important. They are. But, as I hope I have made clear, they cannot help but constitute a major element of the education administrator’s considerations in developing his or her proposals and there is therefore no need to legislate in this case. I hope the noble Lord will feel reassured enough by my explanations to withdraw the amendment.

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Portrait Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
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My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Storey, for his support for these amendments and his comments about what we are trying to achieve with them. I think that those were picked up by the Minister, and I thank him too for taking the time to go through some of the issues and recognise that they had a bearing on this, should insolvency happen. The fact that these words are now on the record is a very good thing.

We particularly recognise that where provision has to be provided at a distance under special measures, travel will become a material issue. Confirmation again that costs could be considered within that is very important. We accept that it would be wrong to tie the hands of the education administrator if, by having a list in the Bill, damage was done to how he or she approaches his or her work. I do not think that that was the intention, but I recognise the danger. The issues were engaged with by the Minister and were recorded in Hansard, which will be sufficient to ensure that these points are not ignored at the appropriate time.

We might want to come back to the question of how and on what basis the comparison between the provision made in one institution that might have to close and another will be done in practice, but that comes under the next group of amendments. For the moment, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Other issues may counterpose on the activities of those who are in further education colleges. It is not impossible that the Office for Students, which is soon to be established, may have made an order in relation to, for instance, access and protection in relation to a course that a student is taking. Would that be part of the order? I look forward to hearing from the Minister on that point. I beg to move.
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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My Lords, we have seen from our recent scrutiny of the Higher Education and Research Bill that it includes provisions to ensure that those undertaking higher education courses are able to continue their learning and are protected if their provider is unable to deliver their course—perhaps, but not solely as a result of it exiting the market; the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, referred to that. Under these proposals the Office for Students will have the flexibility to require any provider on the register to have a student protection plan in place through conditions attached to its registration. We expect that the OfS will require all approved fee-capped providers, including FE colleges, if they are higher education providers, to have plans in place. In those FE colleges with students studying HE courses, the FE students will have the benefit of being protected by the special objective in the event of the college becoming insolvent and the body being placed in education administration. Measures within the provider’s student protection plan may also be relevant and could be brought into play.

I understand that noble Lords are concerned that FE colleges offering such provision will be subject to both regimes and that this will add to the cost of running HE provision. Whether to require FE bodies to have student protection plans in place will be a matter for the Office for Students to decide. However, I agree that where an FE body is insolvent and in special administration, it would make little sense for the education administrator to be required to implement the SPP at the same time as implementing the proposals to achieve the special objective, if possible, as those proposals will extend to the very students covered by the student protection plan.

Where the Secretary of State or Welsh Ministers have decided to place an FE college in special administration, the special objective should take precedence over SPPs. In seeking to achieve the special objective, the education administrator must avoid or minimise disruption to the studies of students of the FE body as a whole, regardless of the course they are studying. There may be circumstances in which the education administrator may find it helpful to refer to the measures within the plan to inform the proposals for a particular student or groups of students, but a student protection plan might impede the education administrator’s discretion about the best way to achieve the special objective. Where this is the case, the provisions of the Bill already allow the court to make an interim order that would suspend existing student protection plans where it considers that necessary or appropriate. I hope that I have been able to reassure the noble Lord that the proposed amendment is unnecessary and that he will withdraw it.

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Portrait Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
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I thank the Minister for his response. I am glad we agree on this. I thought for a moment he was going to give me a concession, which would have been unexpected for a very broad probing amendment. He did not, but he did say that there is a power in Bill. I have been unable to find it, so if he could write to me about that, I would be grateful. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Baroness Cohen of Pimlico Portrait Baroness Cohen of Pimlico
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I support what I think the amendment is about. There is a worrying set of complications, in my mind. Someone has provided the money to keep the FE college going while the special administrator decides that actually it cannot be kept going. Where does the person who provided the money rank among the creditors? We are talking about selling assets at the end of this. For a start, the bank might have a charge on those assets, in which case I guess that is the answer, but somebody has put money in to keep the business going. I have done this on behalf of the Department of Industry—we took back the money that we had put in to keep it going. What is the order of batting in relation to the local authority, or whoever it is, who put the money in to keep the institution going, and the rest of the creditors?

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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My Lords, I start by saying that I recognise that the amendment is driven by noble Lords’ good intentions. They are concerned that assets that have been paid for largely by money from the taxpayer should not then find their way into the private sector at an undervalue, when they can then be sold and used to make a profit at the taxpayer’s expense. I recognise and share those concerns. FE colleges are statutory corporations with significant freedoms to deal with their own assets, but the key check on those freedoms is that any such dealing must be in the interests of the colleges’ charitable education—as the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, said, the basis on which they have their charitable status.

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Moved by
48: Schedule 3, page 34, line 34, after “authority,” insert—
“( ) to the director of children’s services at the local authority or combined authority in whose area the relevant institution is based, and to any other director of children’s services that the education administrator thinks appropriate,”
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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My Lords, I want to explain Amendments 48 to 55, which we have tabled to Schedules 3 and 4. These reflect the commitment that my colleague, the Minister of State for Apprenticeships and Skills, gave in the other place to ensure that the needs of care leavers are provided for in the event that the FE body they attend enters educational administration. We agree that students who are care leavers and have already experienced uncertainty and disruption in their lives may well need additional support to help and reassure them during what may feel like uncertain times. Of course, it is entirely possible that, in the event of insolvency, the insolvent college will be taken over by another provider and students will be able to remain on the same campus, studying many of the same subjects. If this is not possible and students need to be transferred to other providers and possibly other courses, we want to ensure that care leavers can get the advice and guidance that they need, particularly if this encourages them to remain in further education. Having got care leavers into education—which is sometimes not easy—it is important to make sure that we retain them there.

There was debate in the other place as to whether there should be a requirement placed on the education administrator to take particular account of the needs of care leavers in much the same way as Clause 22(3) requires them to take account of the needs of students with special educational needs. As the Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills explained, the needs of care leavers are more pastoral and would, therefore, be better met by the personal advisor appointed by the local authority to support them. He committed the Government to ensuring that guidance to local authorities on their corporate parenting responsibilities would include advice to personal advisers in the event of a college insolvency affecting a young person for whom they were responsible. This amendment supports the delivery of this commitment. It ensures that support and advice is available to those who need it, by adding the director of children’s services in local authorities—or in combined authorities where relevant—to the list of those to whom the education administrator is required to send a copy of the proposals for dealing with the insolvent college. In this way, the local authority will receive formal notification of what is happening and can trigger the necessary action by personal advisers. I hope that noble Lords will agree to accept these amendments. I beg to move.

Baroness Garden of Frognal Portrait Baroness Garden of Frognal
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My Lords, I warmly welcome these amendments. I am sure that if the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, were in his place, he would be particularly pleased to see that these were included. It is reassuring to find the director of children’s services being included in the Bill.

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Moved by
49: Schedule 3, page 34, line 44, at end insert—
“( ) to any director of children’s services to whom the statement of proposals was sent under paragraph 49,”
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Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Portrait Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
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I shall, rather sensibly, be brief because I am trying to amend a clause that I think will be deleted in the next group, so there is not much point in me trying to argue persuasively the merit of my case, although I certainly could. Since the point arises again in relation to the new Clause 37, if it is approved by the Committee, we may as well just cover it.

I do not think we are far apart on this. The question is more one of being clear about what is asked for and how it will be made available. The issue raised by the amendment is that where people are disqualified from holding office in the further education sector, there is a risk if their names are not made available because they could pop up in other colleges and might be subject to the same concerns. A list, which is quite common in other areas of insolvency, should be made available. It is not mentioned in the Bill or the new clause. When the Minister speaks, I may be advised that this will be dealt with in regulations. If so, I would be very happy at that stage to concede that this point is not required. I beg to move.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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I intend to go into the detail, which the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, referred to, of the application of the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986 to FE bodies when I speak to the amendment that I have tabled to amend Clause 37 by replacing it with a revised version. As we continue to refer to that Act, in this and the subsequent amendment, I propose that we use its acronym, the CDDA.

For consideration now is Amendment 57, which was tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Hunt, which specifically provides that the Secretary of State must ensure that the list of disqualified officers is made publicly available. This amendment refers explicitly to disqualified officers, which we take to mean members—that is, governors—of an FE body who have been disqualified by the court having been found liable of wrongful or fraudulent trading under the Insolvency Act 1986, as applied to FE bodies that are statutory corporations by Clause 5, or of similar offences. Under Clause 5, the provisions in the Insolvency Act 1986 relating to wrongful and fraudulent trading will apply to governors and other individuals who run FE bodies in the same way as those provisions apply to directors of, and others involved in the running of, companies.

I understand noble Lords’ concerns and recognise the intent behind this amendment that a publicly searchable list of disqualified individuals should be maintained, so that it is apparent who should not be appointed as a governor of other FE bodies. However, there is already provision in the CDDA for a register of disqualification orders, which is to be open to inspection, to be kept by the Secretary of State. Therefore Clause 37, both as currently drafted and as we intend to amend it, already provides for the well-intended purpose that noble Lords are seeking to achieve. On this basis, I hope that the noble Lord will withdraw the amendment.

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Portrait Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
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I thank the Minister for his comments, which I fully accept. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Moved by
58: Clause 37, leave out Clause 37 and insert the following new Clause—“Disqualification of officersIn the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986, after section 22F insert—“22G Application of Act to further education bodies(1) This Act applies to further education bodies as it applies to companies.(2) Accordingly, in this Act—(a) references to a company are to be read as including references to a further education body;(b) references to a director or an officer of a company are to be read as including references to a member of a further education body;(c) any reference to the Insolvency Act 1986 is to be read as including a reference to that Act as it applies to further education bodies.(3) As they apply in relation to further education bodies, the provisions of this Act have effect with the following modifications—(a) in section 2(1), the reference to striking off is to be read as including a reference to dissolution;(b) sections 9A to 9E are to be disregarded;(c) references to any of sections 9A to 9E are to be disregarded.(4) In this section—“further education body” means—(a) a further education corporation, or(b) a sixth form college corporation;“further education corporation” means a body corporate that—(a) is established under section 15 or 16 of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992, or(b) has become a further education corporation by virtue of section 33D or 47 of that Act;“sixth form college corporation” means a body corporate—(a) designated as a sixth form college corporation under section 33A or 33B of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992, or(b) established under section 33C of that Act.”
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, the amendments we have tabled are to replace the original Clause 37 with a new version, with the intention of fully applying, rather than replicating, the CDDA to FE bodies in England and Wales. Amendment 65 to Clause 43 adds an additional clause—Clause 5, in so far as it relates to Section 426 of the Insolvency Act—to the parts of the Bill which extend to all parts of the UK.

The amendment to Clause 37 removes the delegated power to replicate the CDDA and instead applies that Act in full to FE bodies in England and Wales. This allows the court to disqualify any governors whom it finds liable to wrongdoing, not only from being governors but also from being company directors. In so doing, it fully prevents them from being able to repeat, in a different way, the mistakes they have made potentially at the expense of another FE body. This was not possible with the original drafting of the clause, which allowed us to replicate the CDDA but not fully apply it. The amendment closes a potential loophole in the legislation and more fully protects learners at FE bodies from the actions of any governor who chose to act recklessly.

Wrongful and fraudulent trading are important elements of the corporate insolvency regime, which protects creditors against wrongful conduct by directors. We are looking to achieve the same protection in our own regime for creditors of FE bodies. The responsibilities we propose for those bodies’ governors are very similar to their existing responsibilities as charity trustees. Part of that protection is the deterrent effect enshrined in and created by the CDDA regime, which goes hand in hand with the corporate insolvency regime and has done so for the past 30 years. The Charity Commission is wholly supportive of the approach we are taking and sees it as in line with the approach taken for the trustees of charitable companies and charitable incorporated organisations.

The amendment to Clause 43 provides that the provisions of the Bill which extend in their application to all the different parts of the UK include Clause 5, in so far as it relates to Section 426 of the Insolvency Act. Let me be clear: this does not mean that the FE insolvency regime would apply to FE bodies incorporated in Scotland and Northern Ireland. It would apply, as set out in Clauses 5 and 6 when read together with the definitions in Clause 3, only to those FE bodies in England and Wales established under the Further and Higher Education Act 1992.

The amendment would provide that Section 426 of the Insolvency Act extends to the whole of the UK, which would ensure co-operation between the courts of the different parts of the UK. This means that courts in different jurisdictions might be asked to co-operate on a particular case, for example over the enforcement of a charge where assets are located in a different part of the UK to the location of the insolvent FE body; or, in the case of governor disqualification, preventing a governor disqualified in England or Wales becoming a governor in another part of the UK. In view of what I have said, I hope noble Lords will agree to accept the amendments to Clauses 37 and 43.

Amendment 58 agreed.
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Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Portrait Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
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My Lords, I support the amendment; it is a probing amendment in a complex area. Of course the matter is not in the hands of the Minister who is due to respond to it, because it is a matter that is jealously guarded by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who after all is responsible for tax receipts. In my experience, the issue is very complicated, not least because of history and practice. There may be a strand of European ideology built into this as well, which may reach a conclusion in a couple of years’ time—or not, as the case may be.

The basic principles of the VAT system are very straightforward: a trading operation has to trade with the full weight of VAT on it, and expenditure on it is recouped against subsequent users and from those who purchase the goods and services provided. Those things that are not deemed to be trading do not attract VAT, but equally they cannot be redeemed against the VAT that has been incurred in the purchase and preparation of them.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, said, those bodies exposed to the full weight of VAT on their non-trading activities suffer a 20% penalty for the work that they are doing, and that is money that could be properly reinvested. That is a sound case and I am sure it has exercised Ministers before. I look forward to hearing the response.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank noble Lords for this amendment, which calls for a change in tax policy. It seeks to allow FE colleges to claim refunds of VAT incurred on their non-business expenditure. As noble Lords have acknowledged, tax policy is a matter for the Chancellor and the Treasury. Any tax changes are considered by the Chancellor in the normal way and announced in the context of his Budget judgment, as he will be doing next week.

I understand this call for additional funds from the Treasury for FE, but there are clear implications when thinking about such a change. It is estimated that it would cost the Exchequer about £145 million per year. That cost would have to be covered somewhere in the economy—for example, reducing public expenditure on other government priorities. In addition, the VAT treatment of FE colleges is no different from many other public bodies.

However, in view of all that the noble Baroness said about the previous Prime Minister’s comments about looking carefully at the matter, I will go back to see what further I can say by way of explanation for the status quo. I hope that in view of my comments, she will feel able to withdraw her amendment.

Baroness Garden of Frognal Portrait Baroness Garden of Frognal
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to the Minister for his careful looking and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, for his support for the amendment. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Portrait Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I hesitate to speak because I can see that a Division is pending and it would be nice for us to be able to finish at just the right point, but I realised when my noble friend was speaking that I was that clerk. In an earlier career, I was the clerk of an FE college. The spectre of the buccaneering principals who were around in FE at that time came crowding back, and I felt I ought to share that with the Committee. The problem was that these institutions were very often the creatures of the local authority that owned and fronted them, and there were pressures at play. The principal wanted to be the person who was the main conduit to the local authority and would not brook any interference. Absent the principal, the company secretary, who was indeed a demon of great skill and ability to maintain her position in the structure, took over and ran the place very adequately. But with the growth of corporate structures and, now, the whole question of how that must be used to mature and operate organisations of some scale and scope, I would have thought there must be a way of ensuring that, when corporate structures such as companies are established, there has to be a company secretary, and that company secretary must fulfil at least the minimum standards required of those who operate in the private sector. So there may be a way forward.

I agree entirely with what my noble friend said: the pressure to keep those who are academics—and who should be academics—away from trying to do things that they are patently unable to do, just because they happen to occupy the position of principal or vice-principal, has been an enduring theme with those who have worked in the education sector at FE and HE level. It is only recently that appropriately qualified and suitably remunerated members of that profession have been operating in the way that they should. I support the amendment.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I recognise the very important role played by clerks as expert advisers to governing bodies of further education institutions, and I pay tribute to the contribution by clerks and governing bodies up and down the country. As the responsibilities of those bodies increase, we must also support the development of the capability and professionalism among clerks. As the Minister responsible for governors in schools, I can completely see the importance of this matter. That is why we support the Education and Training Foundation in the delivery of a new professional development programme for clerks to be rolled out this year. Sector representative bodies also deliver a range of activities to support clerks, including a very active clerks’ network and best-practice materials. The ETF is also supporting the increased professionalism of clerks through the improving clerk to company secretary programme to take account in changing college structures and clerks’ responsibilities, whereby clerks can attain company secretary qualifications. We are supporting chairs of boards of governors through the national leaders of governance programme, where experienced chairs mentor others who need support.

There is a well-established statutory requirement for the instrument of an FE institution to make provision for there to be a clerk, and for provision for the responsibilities of that role to be set out in the instrument. That is set out in Schedule 4 to the Further and Higher Education Act 1992. This means that the importance of the clerk’s role, which I know is recognised by members of this House, is also reflected in law.

While further statutory prescription in relation to duties and responsibilities of the clerk may appear attractive, I do not believe that it is the right approach in this case. I will elaborate. The amendment proposes a few high-level matters relating to advice that clerks should provide and, as proposed, overlooks certain features that would reasonably be expected to be an important part of any clerk’s role. These include, for example, independence from the senior management team at the institution and a duty to take appropriate action if the board, the chair or one of the committees appears to be at risk of acting outside their powers or to be proposing actions that may be unlawful.

The 1992 Act sets up high-level requirements for the instrument and articles, including a requirement for there to be a clerk and for the clerk’s responsibilities to be set out in the instrument. Since 2011, colleges have not required the consent of the Secretary of State to amend their instruments. The detailed content of the instrument, including the details of the responsibilities of the clerk, now largely rests with the governing body of the FE corporation rather than with Ministers.

In my view, the existing balance between the requirements set out in legislation and the responsibilities of the governing body is the right one. We should be very careful about removing from colleges the necessary flexibility that enables governing bodies to adapt and tailor their governance arrangements to fit the circumstances of their institution. That is particularly important in a sector as varied as further education. It is obviously important to guard against the possibility that greater prescription has the unintended effect of undermining the responsibility and thus the accountability of governing bodies. The careful balance set out in the current legislation in relation to matters of governance, including in respect of the role of the clerk, remains important going forward.

Principals do not appoint board members. Governors are appointed to the board by the board itself. A good principal will have a strong interest in having a capable body. When there is a material pre-existing relationship between the principal and a member of the board, it should be declared as part of the appointment process. The Association of Colleges’ model job description states that the clerk should be independent of the senior management team and should provide unbiased advice.

We do not think this amendment would add materially to the conduct of clerking or to governing bodies of FE colleges. We believe clerking is generally working well, and the quality of clerking has undoubtedly improved significantly in recent years. However, as I have spent part of the last four years attempting, I think with some success, to raise the importance and effectiveness of governance in schools, and in view of what noble Lords have said, I will go back and investigate their concerns and see what more we might be able to do in this regard, because it is important. Legislation may be a very blunt instrument, but I will go back to look at it further.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Portrait Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
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I am very grateful to the Minister. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Moved by
65: Clause 43, page 20, line 4, leave out “extends” and insert “and section 5 so far as it relates to section 426 of the Insolvency Act 1986 extend”

Technical and Further Education Bill

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Baroness Pidding Portrait Baroness Pidding (Con)
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My Lords, noble Lords may remember that I spoke some weeks ago on this Bill at Second Reading and described the challenges that the UK labour market will face in the coming years and decades. Such times need flexible legislation, so as not to tie the hands of government, the UK labour market and private providers. I believe that it would be a mistake to complicate and overlegislate, and then expect any improvement on the current system.

I agree with the sentiment of Amendments 14 to 16. It ought to be our duty to make sure that students are not left stranded after provider failure, through no fault of their own. However, it is my fear that these amendments may do the very opposite of their well-meant intention. I am particularly concerned by Amendment 14, explicitly subsection (3). I want to stress that however well intentioned it is to demand that private providers set contingency funds that can be used only for the purposes outlined in subsection (2), it risks placing additional financial commitments and burdens on providers unnecessarily. It would also, inevitably, deter excellent private providers from offering loan-funded courses, given these extra commitments.

Given that the Government have made a commitment to helping students affected by provider failure by providing them with alternative providers, it is my belief that this well-intentioned legislative burden is not necessary. It will simply overcomplicate the system and deter private providers from offering excellent qualifications and training.

Lord Nash Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
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My Lords, I am very pleased to be able today to speak about this legislation, which will help lay the foundations for transforming technical and further education, ensuring that all our young people have the same opportunities to travel as far as their talents may take them, move to a lifetime of sustained employment and provide the skills that British business needs. I am grateful for the remarks made by the noble Baroness, Lady Cohen. I share her sentiment: this Bill is the greatest engine of social change that can be imagined, or at least we hope that it will be. I also express my thanks to noble Lords for their continuous engagement in the Bill, which, as the noble Baroness said, has all-party support.

In Committee, we had some very interesting discussions on some of the broader aspects of the Bill, and on the operation and delivery that will turn this legislation into reality. My ministerial colleague Robert Halfon and I have found this scrutiny extremely helpful in refining our thinking for this next stage of the legislation—the transition. Minister Halfon was looking forward to being able to join today’s discussion, as he has done previously, but unfortunately has been called away as he needs to participate in the public sector apprenticeships debate.

I turn now to the first group of amendments, tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Hunt. I welcome the sentiment behind this amendment: that young people who choose to take up an apprenticeship should not be financially disadvantaged and that, in particular, young people who leave care should be encouraged to enter apprenticeships. I believe, however, that we have already established sufficient safeguards and support to deliver these aims. Following a 3% increase in October last year, the national minimum wage for apprentices is now set to rise again to £3.50 an hour from April this year. Most employers pay more than this minimum. The most recent Apprenticeship Pay Survey, in 2016, estimated that the average gross hourly pay received by level 2 and 3 apprentices in England is £6.70 an hour. Moreover, apprentices receive training which, together with their paid employment, sets them up for increased earnings in the future.

Lord Watson of Invergowrie Portrait Lord Watson of Invergowrie
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I wonder whether the Minister is going to respond to the point I made about apprenticeship pay. At the beginning of the year, the Low Pay Commission reported that 18% of apprentices were not getting even the national minimum wage.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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The noble Lord has raised that before. As we discussed at that time, it is illegal to pay below the minimum wage. We and HMRC are focused on ensuring that it does not happen. We all share the noble Lord’s concern about this. I assure him that we will do everything we can to stamp out such practices.

One of the core principles of our reforms is that an apprenticeship is a genuine job. As such, apprentices are treated accordingly in the benefits system. Child benefit is intended to provide financial support to parents to help with the extra costs of raising a dependent child. It is payable to parents until the end of the academic year in which their child turns 16. After that, payment can be claimed for children up to the age of 20 if they are in approved education or training. From April this year, undertaking an apprenticeship at minimum wage will pay more than five times the maximum child benefit rate. Therefore, an apprentice’s parents are not eligible for child benefit for supporting that employed young person. These rules have been a long-standing feature of the welfare system.

Moving to paragraph (b), on extending the higher education bursary to statutory apprentices, while I understand the intentions behind the proposal, it is not correct to equate being on an apprenticeship to being in higher education, where a student is making a substantial investment in their education and has appropriate access to student finance. Apprenticeships, by contrast, are real jobs and those undertaking them are employees who earn a wage, unlike participants in HE who are students and treated as such by the benefits system. Although apprentices generally spend a fifth of their time in training, it is part of the minimum wage regulations that they are paid while undertaking that training, so I cannot share the suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Watson, that the training equates to being in HE. They are still being paid.

Consequently, our focus continues to be on ensuring that there are incentives for employers to recruit care leavers as apprentices. An additional £1,000 is paid to employers who take on a care leaver as an apprentice, as well as their training providers. Furthermore, the funding system ensures that, for all care leavers aged under 25, the full training costs related to undertaking an apprenticeship are met by the Government in recognition of their particular vulnerabilities.

I hope that I have provided sufficient reassurance that reflects that apprenticeships are real jobs, pay a wage that is more than sufficient to offset any household income reductions through the loss of child benefit, and are funded to ensure accessibility for care leavers.

Amendments 14, 15A to 15C and 16 concern the protection of students at independent training providers in the event of their closure. I am sympathetic to the intention behind these amendments that the interests of learners must be at the heart of the system.

Turning to the detail of Amendment 14, I think that it will be helpful also to consider Amendment 15, which would amend it. As currently drafted, Amendment 14 would apply only to further education bodies, which the Bill defines as further education corporations and specialist designated institutions in England and Wales, and sixth form colleges in England. Private providers would not fall under the scope of this amendment, although we need to consider that Amendments 15A to 15C would make this change so that private providers are within scope of the amendment.

As noble Lords will be aware, the main purpose of this part of the Bill is the introduction of a special administration regime which will prioritise the needs of learners. It places an overriding obligation on the education administrator to take the action that best avoids or minimises disruption to the studies of existing learners. This will apply to all students—fee paying as well as non-fee paying. The special objective focuses, rightly, on giving learners the opportunity to continue and complete their studies having set out on their journey to gain new skills or qualifications. That is what individuals will be most concerned to achieve rather than the repayment of any money for which they have not received provision.

Of course, fee-paying students typically pay for their courses in stages, as they do via advanced learner loans, and quite often in arrears, so it is likely that the student will not be significantly—if at all—out of pocket. But, through the special objective, the education administrator will be working to identify opportunities for learners to complete their studies, whether by rescuing the college or transferring the individual to another provider, meaning that the learner can continue on their study path.

We know that noble Lords are interested in the idea of a fund or guarantee to support students in the event of private provider failure, especially where they have paid money in advance. Following recent cases highlighted in the press. I will now say a little about what we are doing to provide support for those affected. Our priority is to support learners whose providers have ceased trading. I want to make it clear that we will take every step we can to ensure that learners are given the opportunity to complete their studies, be that with their current provider if possible or with another provider. In the rare cases where providers fail, the Skills Funding Agency and the Student Loans Company work together to identify solutions for any individuals affected. They make direct contact with learners to inform them of the help they will get. I am happy to say that this is already current practice and is an integral part of the contractual arrangements between the funding agency and the provider. There are many cases where those learners who are affected are successfully transferred to alternative providers.

Students’ new providers may receive funding to deal with necessary administrative costs relating to transferred learners to ensure that they are not out of pocket. We have taken further action to protect learners due to recent cases of private providers going into liquidation. For those who have not completed their course, and while we work to make transfers happen, they will not be required to start repaying their loans during the 2017-18 tax year.

I shall now look at the detail of Amendment 16. I believe, as a number of noble Lords have said, that we should approach the regulation of independent private training providers with caution. These are mostly private profit companies and, unlike the further education bodies which are the subject of this part of the Bill, they are not part of the statutory FE sector and are created by their promoters and owners with no hand from government. They are not subject to the same intervention arrangements as the statutory sector. Furthermore, while they may receive state funding, that funding does not have the same breadth of purpose as the funding for the statutory sector and is paid on a different basis. In particular, the funding is contractual and normally paid in instalments linked to attendance, which limits the financial risk which this amendment is seeking to address.

There are around 400 private providers, of which the vast majority are financially sustainable. I am delighted to join with the noble Lord, Lord Storey, in his comment that many of them provide very good quality education.

Providers must be listed on the SFA’s register of training organisations to receive advanced learner loans funding, while successful approval includes due diligence to assess providers’ capacity to deliver contracts to the required standard and to determine whether they are financially robust. Providers delivering only loan-funded provision must have a financial health assessment rated as good or outstanding. Once on the register, the SFA closely monitors providers’ financial health and achievement rates, with providers having to comply with robust funding and performance rules.

However, I accept that there could be rare cases where a private provider fails and students suffer as a result. Although learners choose their private provider as consumers, “buyer beware” may be thought an unduly harsh response to that predicament. That is the concern which noble Lords are seeking to address through this amendment. I understand the concern, but at the moment I am not convinced that the imposition of significant new regulation on a fully private part of the sector is either a necessary or proportionate response to it.

As far as I am aware, a banking or insurance market for the guarantees referred to in the amendment does not exist and would have to be developed. We do not know whether and how fast this might happen, or at what cost. However, much more significantly, the nature of this sort of financial protection is that it puts a burden on the vast majority of healthy providers, where it is not needed, as well as on those few where it is. In aggregate terms, it would mean substantial sums of money, much of it originally public money, moving from the education sector to the insurance and financial sector, which is not necessarily what the taxpayer would want for the sake of a safety net in very rare cases of failure. Moreover, as the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, said, it would lead inevitably to an increase in the cost of these courses.

Private providers and their representatives will also have views on this of course, and there has not been the opportunity to seek them or reflect on these matters since the amendment was laid, so we are by no means ready to accept that legislation is an appropriate response to the risk that noble Lords have helpfully highlighted. However, I would be delighted to discuss this matter further with the noble Lord, Lord Storey. We are looking into this carefully, but we need to take proper time to consider our policy response, which may not require legislation.

I will now discuss Amendment 20. I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Hunt, for this amendment. I understand their concerns, but I hope that I can reassure them that this amendment is not necessary. The Government are doubling investment in apprenticeships because we know that they provide employers with the skills they need to grow their businesses and benefit the economy. Through the funds raised by the apprenticeship levy, we will be able to invest twice what was spent in 2010-11 in apprenticeships by 2019-20.

The institute’s responsibilities include ensuring that the quality of apprenticeships available to employers reflects employer needs and the Government’s priority for apprenticeships to be a high-quality programme. It will need to work closely with the Department for Education, employers and other stakeholders to make that happen. Its responsibilities also include advising on the pricing of apprenticeship standards to ensure that government funding supports the delivery of high-quality training. The institute will work with employers and providers to understand the cost and value of apprenticeships to inform their advice. The institute does not have responsibility for the apprenticeship budget or how much of it is spent. This resides with the Secretary of State for Education and her department’s agencies.

The Government are fully committed to comprehensive investment in apprenticeships. The apprenticeships budget is set at the spending review. That provides certainty on the forward spending profile for the duration of the Parliament, as well as ensuring affordability of the programme and that the taxpayer receives value for money.

Tying a commitment on spending explicitly to the levy receipts could mean adverse funding consequences for the programme as a whole. The 2016 Autumn Statement revised down the projections for income from the apprenticeship levy over the next five years, but this does not impact on the agreed budget that the department already has as part of the spending review settlement. For example, the provisional budget for spending on apprenticeships in 2019-20 for England and the devolved Administrations totals in excess of £2.9 billion, versus the projected levy income of £2.8 billion. Having certainty over the funding for apprenticeship training is preferable to directly linking the funding on a year-by-year basis to the wider performance of the economy. As described earlier, levels of spending will be determined by the choices that employers make.

I hope that noble Lords feel reassured enough by my responses to these amendments not to press them.

Lord Watson of Invergowrie Portrait Lord Watson of Invergowrie
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My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response and all noble Lords who have participated in this debate. On the three amendments that carry my name—our amendments to Amendment 14, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Storey—the Minister said that we will have an opportunity to consider that further. That is to be welcomed.

On Amendment 20, I feel the Minister rather overegged the pudding. I said that I do not think the levy will be undersubscribed or short of applications. He seemed to be saying that this would depend on monetary fluctuations. The fluctuation that would concern me would be, if not enough applications for the fund came forward, what would then happen to any so-called surplus that would remain? I am not unhappy with his response. I am optimistic that the levy will be fully taken up.

I am not so optimistic about the Minister’s comments on Amendment 1 and apprentices being described as approved learners, as I think they should be. He mentioned apprentices as being employed and receiving—or at least being entitled to receive—the national minimum wage of £3.50, but that is the figure that will apply next month. For any other worker aged up to 18 the rate will be £4.05; for those aged between 18 and 20 it will be £5.60. Despite that very low level, apprentices are paid less than their peers who, for whatever reason, are not in apprenticeships but are working. I do not think that argument carries a great deal of weight.

The Minister also said that he is not willing to support extending the higher education bursary of £2,000 for apprentices to those leaving care. Surely any barriers to young people taking up apprenticeships should be removed or at the very least mitigated. On those two issues, the Minister did not show any willingness to do so. He said there were sufficient safeguards to ensure that apprentices and their families do not lose out by dint of the young person taking up an apprenticeship. That is palpably not the case. Further education colleges have already drawn to the attention of the Association of Colleges a number of cases of would-be apprentices being dissuaded from applying for—or, having applied for, then taking up—an apprenticeship when the financial consequences become clear. That is through pressures within their families. Whatever the rates in place, there are not sufficient safeguards. That deters some young people from taking up apprenticeships. That they are not regarded as approved learners is surely a glaring loophole which the Government must at some stage move to close.

I regret that the Minister has demonstrated no willingness even to acknowledge that there is an issue, far less a willingness to find a means of resolving it. We regard that as unsatisfactory. For that reason, I wish to the test the opinion of the House on Amendment 1.

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16:00

Division 1

Ayes: 244


Labour: 125
Liberal Democrat: 75
Crossbench: 31
Independent: 7
Green Party: 1
Plaid Cymru: 1

Noes: 190


Conservative: 163
Crossbench: 22
Democratic Unionist Party: 2
Independent: 1
UK Independence Party: 1
Bishops: 1

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Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lords and the noble Baroness for the amendments on reporting issues for the institute. I start by discussing Amendment 2, tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Hunt. Being able to assess how well the apprenticeship reform programme is achieving outcomes is of course essential. We need to know whether those undertaking apprenticeships or technical education qualifications are receiving the benefits that we would expect them to receive. To be able to do that, we obviously need the right information to help us make such an assessment. How the institute reports on its work is a topic that we discussed in Committee, but I remain convinced that the provisions already in the Bill are the right ones and that they are sufficient. I am sorry to disappoint the noble Lord, Lord Watson, but I therefore still do not believe that an amendment to the Bill is necessary to achieve that objective.

As I have said, the amendment was discussed in Committee and on Report in the other place, and in Committee in this place, and both the Minister of State for Apprenticeships and Skills and I have given sound justification for why it is not necessary. The institute will be required to report on its activities annually under the Enterprise Act 2016, and the report must be placed before Parliament. This will include information on how the institute has responded to the statutory guidance. In addition, the Enterprise Act includes provisions enabling the Secretary of State to request information from the institute on any topic.

The information set out in the amendment is already collected and published by the Secretary of State on the performance of the FE sector, which includes apprenticeships. In order to inform its activities, we would expect the institute to make good use of these data in its annual report when it assesses its performance and impact each year. Indeed, the shadow institute has explained in its draft operational plan that it,

“will make more use of learner, employer and wider economy outcome data when reviewing the success of standards”.

The institute’s core role is to oversee and quality-assure the development of standards and assessment plans for use in delivering apprenticeships and, we expect, from April next year, college-based technical education. Much of the information that the amendment proposes that the institute provide goes well beyond what is in scope of its remit. It would therefore be inappropriate for the institute to be asked to provide this type of information, and an unnecessary duplication of effort, given that this information is already collected and published by the Secretary of State. It is right that the Government collect and monitor that information, but where it falls outside the remit of the institute, it cannot reasonably be expected to provide it.

I turn to Amendment 3. Improving social mobility is integral to our apprenticeship reforms. The Institute for Apprenticeships is supporting this by helping to create a ladder of opportunity based on quality apprenticeships for people across the country. This ladder will ensure that, no matter where you are born or who your parents are, if you work hard and apply yourself, you can get ahead, succeed and shape your own destiny.

To support this aim it is of course critical that reporting measures are in place to enable us to assess how well the programme is achieving positive outcomes for a range of groups, including young people. I agree therefore with the spirit of the amendment, which proposes that such information is monitored, measured and reviewed regularly. However, I believe this amendment is unnecessary to achieve that.

We want an education system that works for everyone and drives social mobility by breaking the link between a person’s background and where they get to in life. Our defining challenge is to level up opportunity.

On 18 January, the Secretary of State for Education set out her three priorities: tackling geographic disadvantage; investing in long-term capacity in the system; and making sure that our education system as a whole really prepares young people and adults for career success. That is why the Government are delivering more good school places, making school funding fairer, strengthening the teaching profession, investing in improving careers education, transforming technical education and apprenticeships and opening up access to our world-class higher education system.

The Department for Education already publishes a range of data on apprenticeships through a number of reports broken down by starts, achievements, sector subject area, framework and standard, geography, gender, age, ethnicity and other diversity and disadvantage markers. These data are published as national statistics by the department and intended to provide transparency.

It would be more appropriate for the head of profession in the department to consider how and where breakdowns of disadvantage for apprenticeships data are published, in accordance with the code of practice for statistics set by the National Statistician. Additionally, the department is considering publishing new data and measures required to support the Secretary of State’s three priorities. The department is committed to publishing disadvantage measures such as the pupil premium, but needs to be free to find the most appropriate for each age group, programme and purpose.

Data are already helping our work to improve social mobility. For example, we know that 10.5% of those starting an apprenticeship in 2015-16 were from a black and minority background, and we have set an ambitious target to increase the apprenticeships started by people from BAME backgrounds by 20% by 2010. In addition, the department publishes 16-to-18 performance tables that cover classroom-based provision within schools and colleges. The 2016 performance tables were reformed to report five headline measures for students taking A-levels and vocational qualifications at a similar level. Further reforms are planned for 2017 performance tables. This includes extending the performance tables to include outcomes for students still studying at GCSE level and reporting outcomes for disadvantaged students, the definition of which is those who were in receipt of pupil premium funding in year 11. This will have the effect of linking key stage 4 pupil premium information with 16-to-19 outcomes. In 2018-19, we will include only GCSE-level equivalent qualifications that are on the technical certificates list.

The institute has been given a clearly defined role, in which it will be responsible for setting quality criteria for the development of apprenticeship standards and assessment plans—reviewing, approving or rejecting them; advising on the maximum level of government funding available for standards; and quality assuring some end-point assessments. While we expect data to be at the heart of the institute’s operations, the collection and publication of the data in this amendment goes beyond that remit and would create an undue burden on the institute, preventing it from carrying out the range of its other duties effectively.

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, and the noble Lords, Lord Storey and Lord Lucas, for tabling Amendment 21. I completely agree with the spirit of the amendment, but there are already measures within the Bill that require the institute to monitor, measure, review and report on performance on a regular basis. I hope that after I have explained this further, the noble Lords and the noble Baroness will feel able not to press the amendment.

The institute will be a sustainable and long-term governance body that will support employers, individuals and others and will, among other things, uphold the quality of standards. I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Baker for his comments on the strength of the board and its governance. Although the institute will have wide-ranging autonomy across its operational brief, and will be able to carry out its functions in relation to apprenticeships independently, the Secretary of State will retain strategic oversight of the reformed technical education system and will be able to give directions and statutory guidance where appropriate. Of particular relevance to this amendment, the Secretary of State may direct the institute to prepare and send to the Secretary of State, as soon as reasonably practicable, a report on any matter relating to its functions. It may be in that context that the idea to which my noble friend Lord Baker referred, of a letter, would be most appropriate.

The institute will be required to report on its activities annually under amendments made under the Enterprise Act 2016, and that report must be placed before Parliament. This will include information on how the institute has responded to the strategic guidance provided to it by the Secretary of State. While the institute will collect and report on relevant data and information, the Secretary of State will also continue to collect and publish a range of data on the performance of the FE sector, including apprenticeships. We would expect that, to inform its activities, the institute would make good use of those data when it assesses its performance and impact each year, and compiles its annual report. The Enterprise Act has made amendments that also include provisions enabling the Secretary of State to request information from the institute on any other topic that she deems appropriate in relation to their functions in relation to apprenticeships. Through this Bill, those provisions extend to technical education.

Therefore, although ultimately the Secretary of State will retain sufficient powers to ensure that government retains overall control in relation to technical education and will provide strategic guidance in respect of both apprenticeships and technical education, we would expect that, in the exercise of its functions, the institute would assess its performance and take action to address any issues identified. I am confident that, with the governance that it has managed to line up, that should happen.

I hope that noble Lords and the noble Baroness will feel reassured enough on the basis that I have explained not to press their amendments.

Lord Watson of Invergowrie Portrait Lord Watson of Invergowrie
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply—almost half the debate on this group of amendments was from his lips—which in some ways was not unencouraging. I welcome the contributions of two former Secretaries of State for Education, which are always informative. Although my noble friend Lady Morris was very supportive, the noble Lord, Lord Baker, was supportive only up to a point. He said that he did not believe this needed to be on the face of the Bill, but welcomed what Amendment 2 seeks to achieve. I noted that the Minister said it was likely that the request by the noble Lord, Lord Baker, for a letter from the Secretary of State would be taken up, and that is to be welcomed.

I also welcome the supportive contributions of the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, and the noble Lord, Lord Lucas. We are trying to make the point—expressed strongly by my noble friend Lady Morris—that the institute is just being established and needs to build its reputation. One way it will do that is by being as open and transparent as possible. The Minister said that collecting the information mentioned in Amendments 2 and 3 would be an undue burden. However, Amendment 3 provides only for the institute to ask the department for information which it already holds, which is not particularly burdensome.

The transparency mentioned in Amendment 2 is important because it will build confidence, as my noble friend Lady Morris said. Many employers and training providers—all further education colleges—as well as putative apprentices, are looking to the institute to raise the quality of apprenticeships. Why not demonstrate that as effectively as possible by both assembling and publishing the information mentioned in Amendment 2? The Minister said that the activities of the institute will be monitored, measured and reviewed but not reported on in the detail we have asked for. The Department for Education will have the information but apparently it does not want to give it to the institute to publish in its reports, which seems slightly odd.

Nevertheless, the Minister said quite a lot. I need to read his words in Hansard but he seemed to be mentioning quite a lot of benefit which will be seized on by those in the sector who have a genuine desire to make the Institute for Apprenticeships successful—to get it off to a good start and then build from there. There was certainly some positive input from the Minister, which I welcome. On that basis, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Lord Watson of Invergowrie Portrait Lord Watson of Invergowrie
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Young for moving this amendment, which I am happy to support. In broad terms, we believe that the recommendations of the Sainsbury review should be fully implemented and funded. In the short term, there are three clear funding needs from the skills plan: fair funding for colleges; costs associated with finding and managing work placements, because they involve an individualised service to young people and employers rather than education to a group; and the cost of the transition year. A two-year full-time course would be the standard model under the plan, but with the expectation that some school leavers would need to take an additional transition year. This implies a full-time three-year programme. The current 16-to-18 funding system assumes a full two years and then administers a 17.5% cut in the third year. A sensible step, therefore, would be to maintain the full rate for three years for those students taking the transition year.

In his letter to noble Lords dated 22 February, the noble Lord, Lord Nash, stated that there are currently around 3,500 vocational qualifications. Most professionals in the sector have cited a figure of more than three times that amount, but more important is how the transition to the new regime is managed and funded. The Minister also said in his letter that the reforms would be phased in progressively, with the first routes available for delivery from September 2019. That apart, the transition was not set out and the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord Young would enable that to happen. It would be a positive move and we believe that it is incumbent on the Minister to commit to it by accepting this modest amendment.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Young, for tabling this amendment. I fully understand their concerns and hope that I might be able to provide an explanation that will put their minds at rest. I was grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Young of Norwood Green, for his kind comments about our branding as T-levels.

We know that colleges, students and awarding organisations will need to know in good time the arrangements for existing qualifications as the new qualifications are introduced. As the noble Lord, Lord Watson, has just said, we plan for the first new technical routes to be introduced in autumn 2019, with the full range of programmes coming on stream soon after. Additional hours will be available for the new programmes as they become available and we will announce further details in due course following further engagement with employers, colleges and other key stakeholders.

In implementing the reforms, the Government will consider in consultation with the institute how best to manage the transition from legacy qualifications to new technical qualifications approved by the institute and intend to involve stakeholders and set out plans for this in due course.

Given that the new technical education routes will be subject to phased introduction, it would not be sensible or appropriate to commit to a fixed timescale for publishing detailed proposals for transition. I reassure the noble Lords, however, that once the institute has approved a new qualification, the Department for Education will consider future funding for the current, similar qualifications on a case-by-case basis. We will not withdraw funding for a student who is part way through their course. I therefore hope that the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Young, will be sufficiently reassured to consider not pressing their amendment.

Lord Young of Norwood Green Portrait Lord Young of Norwood Green
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I listened carefully to what the Minister said but am not sure that it entirely dealt with the transition process. Maybe I did not quite grasp what he said. I understand his point: I fixed upon a period of time that I thought would be sufficient for him to be able to describe to the various stakeholders how this would happen. Telling them at the end, “We’ve identified this particular new qualification”, seems a bit late in the day. It still does not seem to give the kind of reassurance that people would want: “This is the process we are to go through, how we will carry it out and how we will manage during the transition period”. I am not particularly fussed about the timing—I had to put something in there—but I am concerned about the detail of the transition process and a more detailed response would be welcome. Perhaps we will have an opportunity before Third Reading to meet again and get a more detailed assurance. In the meantime, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Lord Young of Norwood Green Portrait Lord Young of Norwood Green
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, if you want to change attitudes in schools and colleges, one of the most powerful influences you can have is to send in their peer groups to talk to them. I met a young woman today who had taken a degree in mechanical engineering. It was interesting talking to her about what her influences had been in taking that decision. More importantly for me, when I asked her whether she was going back into schools and colleges to talk to young people about what a successful career they could establish in engineering, the answer was a very clear affirmative.

When Ofsted is carrying out an inspection, I hope it will take into account the general approach of the school. It is not just about formal careers advice, as has already been stated, but about whether they have an open mind. I take my noble friend Lady Morris’s point about the quality of speakers; obviously you want someone who can engage in a positive way. But I hope that when Ofsted looks at schools and colleges it is taking into account the links with business, business people and people who have successfully completed their apprenticeships coming into schools, and the role of women in subjects like engineering, STEM and construction in changing attitudes and making young people, and especially young women, aware that there is a wide variety of careers open to them with lots of well-rewarded career paths. That is an essential part of any careers advice.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for tabling the amendments, which relate to careers. I have to say I am still struggling with the concept of the noble Lord, Lord Watson, being the meat in anyone’s sandwich. He is a pretty tough piece of meat, based on my experience of sitting opposite him at the Dispatch Box. That is meant as a compliment, actually.

On Amendment 8, tabled by my noble friend Lord Lucas, Clause 2 requires schools to ensure that there is an opportunity for a range of education and training providers to talk directly to pupils about the technical education qualifications and apprenticeships that they offer. The amendment is intended to ensure that such access is extended to people who represent groups of providers, such as women in construction or manufacturing. I remember attending an event held for women in manufacturing in your Lordships’ House a few years ago. I agree that we need a degree of flexibility so that pupils hear from the person best placed to inform them about the opportunities on offer. I recognise that in some cases that may not be the provider itself but perhaps it could be an ambassador, an employer or a member of a trade association or representative body, speaking on behalf of a number of small providers.

We will publish statutory guidance that will set out more detail and make it clear that we do not wish to impose unnecessary constraints. We are placing the onus on the school to develop their own arrangements for provider access, including agreeing with providers who will attend to talk to pupils. Clause 2, both as drafted and as we intend to clarify in underpinning statutory guidance, already provides for persons acting on behalf of a number of providers to access pupils. To get really technical and legal for a moment, I queried this in terms of statutory interpretation. The legal authority for our decision to resist the amendments is found on page 1019 of Bennion on Statutory Interpretation:

“Where an enactment refers to a person it is usually taken as intended to include that person’s agent authorised either expressly or by implication”.


The earliest legal authority on this is R v Symington (1895) 4BCR 323. It follows that the words “on behalf of” in the statute would not be needed to allow a person to act on behalf of providers.

Turning to the very good point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, regarding the amendment from my noble friend Lord Baker, it is certainly clear to me, and my officials have confirmed this, that the obligation on the school is to ensure that there is an opportunity for a range of education and training providers to access pupils, that they must prepare a policy statement and that that statement must include, for example, grounds for granting and refusing requests for access. Obviously it must be at the discretion of the head; if he feels that the people coming along are, frankly, not of quality and are not going to give their pupils the right advice, then it must be within the head’s remit to refuse access, provided that he is providing a range of education and training providers and has some other alternative that is better.

Amendment 9 is also in the name of my noble friend Lord Lucas. It is intended to ensure that the policy statement produced by every school will set out the circumstances in which both providers and persons acting on their behalf will be given access to pupils. The current provisions already allow for such persons to talk to pupils. As I said, we will publish statutory guidance which makes this degree of flexibility explicitly clear: the onus is on schools to liaise with providers to agree who is best placed to talk to them.

Turning to Amendment 17, which deals in more detail with Ofsted and careers advice, careers advice is a vital part of the role that every school and college must play in preparing students for the workplace. I agree entirely with the noble Lord, Lord Storey, that careers advice should start in primary school. Primary Futures does excellent work in this regard. I also agree with the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, that the Careers & Enterprise Company, in which we are investing considerable money—£90 million—has made an excellent start.

However, the quality of the careers offer is considered carefully by Ofsted when conducting standard inspections of FE colleges. Therefore, the amendment is unnecessary. Matters relating to careers provision feature in all four graded judgements made by Ofsted inspectors. First, in judging leadership and management, inspectors take account of the extent to which learners receive thorough and impartial careers guidance to enable them to make informed choices about their current learning and future career plans. Secondly, in judging the quality of teaching, learning and assessment, inspectors consider how far learners are supported to develop their employability skills, including appropriate attitudes and behaviour for work. Thirdly, in judging students’ personal development, behaviour and welfare, inspectors consider how learners benefit from purposeful work-related learning, including external work experience. Finally, in judging outcomes, inspectors consider information about students’ destinations and the acquisition of the qualifications, skills and knowledge that will help them to progress.

Ofsted also evaluates the education and training provision offered by the college, including 16 to 19 study programmes, apprenticeships and traineeships. In making these judgments, inspectors consider the extent to which each type of provision offers tailored careers advice and work experience opportunities to students and develops their employability skills. Noble Lords made some good points about Ofsted’s approach to that, and I will certainly discuss that further with Ofsted shortly. However, I hope that what I have said about its obligation framework reassures my noble friend that colleges are held to account properly for the quality of their careers provision and that he will be able to withdraw the amendment.

Lord Lucas Portrait Lord Lucas
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend for his short CPD session, which I hope I shall manage to remember and will rehearse later in Hansard. Given that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful for these amendments. I have made it clear that our priority in introducing the special administration regime is to ensure that the interests of students are safeguarded as far as possible. That is the purpose of the special objective, which places an overriding obligation on the education administrator to take the action that best avoids or minimises disruption to the studies of existing students. I am pleased that noble Lords recognise, and share, that objective.

I understand the noble Lord’s concern about the drafting of subsection (2), that the inclusion of the words “if possible” may be considered to cast doubt on the special objective. As he indicated, I can assure noble Lords that is not our intention. I have reflected on the noble Lord’s amendment. The regime that we are introducing is one which places students at the heart of further education, but does not demand that the education administrator achieves the impossible; nor does it disregard the interests of creditors. The words “if possible” in Clause 24(2) were intended to clarify this position, but I understand the noble Lord’s concerns that they might have the opposite effect. Let me be clear that our position remains unchanged and I am satisfied, on the advice of my lawyers, that their deletion would have no substantive effect on the application of the regime. I am therefore delighted to accept the amendment.

As for the noble Lord’s kind offer not to move Amendments 11, 12 and 13, I am delighted that he has been reassured by the letter from my noble friend Lady Vere. I assure him that the normal insolvency procedures would be followed and that there is no intention to disrupt those, apart from the overriding special objective.

Amendment 10 agreed.
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18:21

Division 2

Ayes: 223


Labour: 120
Liberal Democrat: 72
Crossbench: 21
Independent: 6
Green Party: 1
Plaid Cymru: 1

Noes: 185


Conservative: 166
Crossbench: 12
Democratic Unionist Party: 2
Ulster Unionist Party: 2
Independent: 1
Bishops: 1

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Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Portrait Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, we had a very interesting debate in Committee about the role of clerks in FE institutions. It is clear from our debates on the Bill that these institutions face many challenges. We have agreed that it is important to have the highest quality of people appointed to their governing bodies and that clerks can be very helpful in giving advice to them. The Minister said he would give some consideration to this and I look forward to his response. I beg to move.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I welcome the opportunity to continue our discussion in Committee, about the importance of good governance in FE colleges, to which the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, has referred. As I said in our earlier discussion, I fully recognise the important role played by clerks as expert advisers to governing bodies of FE institutions. As the Minister responsible for governance in schools, I have made it a priority to improve this vital area, including the important role of clerks. However, we believe that it is essentially a matter of improving practice, not legislative change, for reasons that I will outline.

We are supporting the role of clerks through development programmes run by the Education and Training Foundation. The noble Lord will also have received a copy of a letter from the Association of Colleges setting out some of the steps it is taking to strengthen governance. Hard copies of that letter are available for noble Lords today, should they wish to see it. I note from the letter that the AoC is currently undertaking a review of the existing code of practice on governance, to which many colleges adhere. I will be meeting it shortly to hear what further action it intends to take. There is clearly a strong and shared aspiration across this House for strengthening governance. The sector is keen to engage and it is only right for others, including government, to take up that invitation, and to offer the right combination of challenge and support. While legislation might appear attractive, it should not be something that is reached for without good evidence as to the nature of any problems, and full consideration of the most appropriate solutions. In an area as complex as governance, simple legislative approaches are unlikely to be effective in delivering real improvement.

The effect of the noble Lord’s amendment would be to reinstate one element of model articles for colleges that applied prior to the Education Act 2011. That would deliberately limit the freedom that colleges currently have in respect of the contents of their instrument and articles, by requiring them to retain provision in those articles regarding the role of the clerk. I have significant doubts about the efficacy of such an approach. A recent sample of the contents of the instrument and articles of 10 colleges, carried out by my officials, found that in every case the relevant documents already contained a provision similar or identical to that proposed in the amendment. If that sample is representative of the sector as a whole then it would suggest that the amendment will have no substantive effect—certainly not in terms of delivering the improvement to standards of governance which I believe is the noble Lord’s intention—particularly as all 10 colleges in the sample had been subject to intervention by the Further Education Commissioner. In many cases, the commissioner found significant failures of governance. Although I will not read out the relevant sections from the commissioner’s reports, which are published on GOV.UK, there is more than one instance of unsatisfactory clerking arrangements being a significant contributory factor. Those failures occurred despite the role of the clerk being set out in the instrument and articles.

This evidence strengthens the argument that setting out the role of the clerk in the instrument and articles, as would be required by the amendment, is by no means a guarantee of good governance in practice. Nor, unfortunately, is it an effective protection against poor governance. Our focus has to be on good practice in governance, and what more we can do to share good practice, not introducing additional box-ticking measures.

In conclusion, I stress that strengthening governance clearly remains a priority for the sector and for the Government and we will continue to drive this. In the small number of cases where there are significant failures in governance, we will continue to intervene swiftly and effectively to ensure that governing bodies are held to account, and that lessons are learned. We must continue to drive up the performance of all governing bodies. This approach strikes the right balance in helping to ensure a robust and well-governed sector that is in the best position to deliver its important mission for learners, employers, and the community. For these reasons, I believe that greater statutory prescription, as set out in the amendment, is unfortunately unlikely to be effective in achieving those goals. I therefore urge the noble Lord to withdraw the amendment.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Portrait Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, as the Minister mentioned the ETF, I remind the House of my declaration that my wife is a consultant to it. I am grateful to the Minister, particularly because he is going to meet the AoC to discuss the outcome of its review. I accept that good practice is probably the best way forward. However, I hope the Government will keep up the pressure on the AoC and colleges to ensure that they employ good people who can provide robust advice. Having said that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Lucas for this amendment, the effect of which would be to require each group of persons who develop a standard to consider whether an existing qualification ought to be included within it. Occupational standards will form the basis of both apprenticeships and technical education qualifications, and need to be suitable for each of them. The standard should include the knowledge, skills and behaviours needed to form the basis of either an apprenticeship or a technical education qualification. Including existing qualifications in addition to the knowledge, skills and behaviours would cause complications when technical education qualifications are being developed using the standard.

One of the core principles of the apprenticeship reforms is to move away from qualifications. Under the framework model, apprentices collect a number of small, often low-quality, qualifications throughout their apprenticeship which often do not give employers much reassurance about apprentices’ ability to do the job. By moving to a single end-point assessment, the apprentice will be tested on the knowledge, skills and behaviours set out in the standard and their occupational competence to do the whole job, not just a small section of it.

This amendment does not require the inclusion of qualifications in standards but it is moving the approach back towards the system that we are moving away from. Although it is no doubt something that the awarding bodies would welcome, it could actively encourage employer groups to include qualifications where they may otherwise not have done so. That is likely to be contrary to the Government’s strategic guidance for the institute. However, I can reassure my noble friend and the House that in occupations where there is a qualification that is needed for an apprenticeship—for example, to achieve a professional status—they will not need to be prompted by this Bill to consider its inclusion in the standard, which is permissible as long as they meet set criteria for an exception. This is in line with the employer-led nature of the reforms. We therefore believe that this kind of direction is not needed in such a system. I hope that my noble friend will feel reassured enough on the basis of my explanation to withdraw this amendment.

Lord Lucas Portrait Lord Lucas
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am mostly comforted by my noble friend’s reference to employer-led matters. If that indicates that if employers want a qualification and fight hard enough they will get it, that seems to me satisfactory. Therefore, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Baroness Garden of Frognal Portrait Baroness Garden of Frognal
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I beg to move Amendment 23 in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Storey. The Government have introduced a raft of reforms to the apprenticeship system which they hope will contribute to the quality as well as the quantity of apprenticeships. One of the biggest departures, and among the most contentious, is the move to end-point assessment—EPA—as the sole formally recognised method of assessing an apprentice’s competence to do the job they have trained for. I am grateful to SEMTA and to Professor Lorna Unwin and Professor Alison Fuller from the Institute of Education for their work in this area and pay tribute to their expertise.

If we take the example of engineering, employers have looked to continuous assessment over three or more years, with formal qualifications used as the mechanism through which they can both assess and ensure that the full range of skills and knowledge has been learned, and that apprentices’ attainment has met national standards and earned national recognition. In overseas countries where EPA is used, it tends to be used in conjunction with other assessment and formal accreditation practices, with the assessment of skills taking place over the whole lifetime of the apprenticeship as well as in a summative form at the end of the programme and through formal qualifications. It is important that the assessment methodology is appropriate and is encouraging to the apprentice. Young people need to gain confidence as they learn that their skills are being recognised. The best way to do this is through continuous assessment. I hope that the Minister will be able to confirm that EPA will not be the only assessment used and that learners will be assessed continuously to ensure that they reach their potential and help to plug the yawning skills gap in the country. I beg to move.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I welcome the opportunity to discuss Amendment 23, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, and the noble Lord, Lord Storey, which would require all apprenticeship assessment plans to include continuous assessment.

Reviewing the role of continuous assessment in apprenticeships has been a very important part of the apprenticeship reforms following the 2012 Richard review of apprenticeships. It concluded that continuous assessment throughout an apprenticeship tested only incremental progress, not whether the apprentice is fully competent at the time of completing their apprenticeship. This approach also undermines our principle of ensuring that assessment is delivered by an independent third party with nothing to gain from the outcome of the assessment. The continuous assessment model often means that the same individual trains and assesses an apprentice—a conflict of interest we have sought to avoid.

An important feature of approved English apprenticeship standards and plans is therefore the move away from this reliance on a series of small and pre-existing qualifications making up an apprenticeship, and the move instead towards a single, independent end-point assessment, which tests the apprentice in a holistic and robust way. This test at the end of the apprenticeship proves genuine employability by demonstrating that the apprentice has acquired the knowledge, skills and behaviours needed to be fully competent in their occupation. The requirements for the end-point assessment of each standard are developed by employer groups and approved by the institute to ensure that it meets the needs for that specific occupation. In view of this, I hope the noble Baroness feels reassured enough to withdraw her amendment.

Baroness Garden of Frognal Portrait Baroness Garden of Frognal
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. He said that the same people will be testing and assessing but the likelihood is that that will be the employer, who will know the standards they wish the apprentice to reach. There is a place for end-point assessment, but it should not be the only way of assessing these skills. They are learned continuously and should be assessed continuously. However, I hear what the noble Lord says, and we need to keep this under review to make sure that we are not putting off a lot of people with practical skills, who find the end-point assessment a real barrier to learning and accreditation. Meanwhile, however, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Portrait Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

There is no guarantee at all because the clerks are tight about what they will allow. The Government have to agree that they will allow us to bring it back. That is why I made the point.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I should make it clear that if the noble Baroness and the noble Lord wish to test the temperature of the House, they should do so now.

Baroness Garden of Frognal Portrait Baroness Garden of Frognal
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

We were hoping that we could have a dialogue about this because these matters are key to the success of apprenticeships. But if that is the Minister’s approach, I beg leave to test the opinion of the House.

--- Later in debate ---
19:23

Division 3

Ayes: 164


Labour: 84
Liberal Democrat: 64
Crossbench: 11
Conservative: 1
Independent: 1
Plaid Cymru: 1

Noes: 166


Conservative: 153
Crossbench: 10
Independent: 2
Ulster Unionist Party: 1

Amendments 25 to 33 not moved.

Technical and Further Education Bill

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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Report stage (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Monday 27th March 2017

(7 years ago)

Lords Chamber
Technical and Further Education Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: HL Bill 107-I Manuscript amendments for Report, supplementary to the marshalled list (PDF, 56KB) - (27 Mar 2017)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Baroness Garden of Frognal Portrait Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I fear that this may be something of an anti-climax after the previous excitement. Nevertheless, I wish to move Amendment 34 and speak also to Amendment 35. They have the support of the noble Lords, Lord Lucas and Lord Watson, and of my noble friend Lord Storey.

As we set out in Committee, there are quite a few questions to be asked about the institute’s power to issue technical education certificates. We understand that this will not be done by the institute but be delegated to the Skills Funding Agency. Either way, public time and money will be used to duplicate a function which is already well covered under existing systems.

This proposal was not set out in the skills plan. It potentially removes any continuing link between the awarding body and the qualification that it has produced. We are here attempting to clarify the relationship between the issuing of the proposed certificates and the qualification certificates issued by awarding organisations. Are the Government proposing to issue these “technical education certificates” alongside the awarding organisation’s certificate?

We heard earlier from the Minister that employers would pay for the certificate. It would be helpful to hear more about who makes the application. Does it come from the employer, from the training provider or from the awarding body? Is it automatically triggered by attainment of a qualification?

I do not think that we have had an assessment of the resources required by the institute, or the SFA, to authenticate, print and send out the 3 million apprenticeship certificates to meet the government target. Will the institute require the addresses of all the candidates or will they be sent to the employer or training provider to distribute?

There is a very simple solution. Government issuing of certificates is not common procedure at qualification level in any other area of the education and training system and would appear to bestow unnecessary cost, duplication and complexity on to whichever body is tasked with carrying it out. Would it not be simpler if the certificate issued by the awarding organisation also carried the logo of the institute or of the Department for Education? This has been common practice in the past, including with national vocational qualifications, and would have the benefit of adding government backing and status to a certificate already being validated, processed and issued.

I assure your Lordships that awarding bodies can produce some immensely impressive certificates to meet immensely impressive achievements. I hope that the amendment will be seen as positive and helpful. I beg to move.

Lord Nash Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, and the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, for tabling these amendments. A fundamental reason for introducing the technical education reforms is to tackle the weakness in the current 16 to 19 education system caused by fragmentation and variation in the quality and value of the qualification certificates currently provided by many individual awarding organisations.

To address this, it is important that the technical education certificates are issued consistently by one entity under consistent branding so that they are recognised and understood by employers regardless of the qualification or where it was undertaken. The Bill makes provision for the Secretary of State to issue a technical education certificate to any person who has completed a technical education qualification and any other steps determined under new Section A2DB.

Those completing either an apprenticeship or a technical education course will receive a nationally awarded certificate from the Secretary of State. This will confirm that they obtained as many of the key skills and behaviours as the institute deems appropriate for a particular occupation. The technical education certificate will also recognise the other essential elements such as attainment in English and maths, completion of work placements and other route-specific qualifications. The certificate will demonstrate to employers that individuals obtained the knowledge, skills and behaviours necessary to undertake their chosen occupation. It will provide clarity for employers and support the portability and progression value of the qualifications.

As currently drafted, these amendments will allow the Secretary of State to use the DfE logo and standard wording on technical education certificates—which of course she may already do. It is also right that only the certificate should bear the department’s logo and standard wording. This will also ensure that certificates for technical education align as closely as possible with certificates for apprenticeships. However, this will not affect any arrangements that the institute entered into with an organisational consortium that is approved to deliver a technical education qualification. These arrangements are likely to include the use of their own logo or branding on any certificate that they issue in respect of that qualification.

We expect costs to be incurred in issuing the certificates. It is therefore right that the Secretary of State should be able to determine whether to charge for the first technical education certificate and a copy of it, and if so how much. This is consistent with the procedure already followed for charging for the issuing of apprenticeship certificates or supplying copies of them. Our reforms will ensure we operate a system for the future, providing a national offer that is recognised and understood by employers regardless of the qualification or where it is undertaken.

I hope that clarifies the situation for the noble Baroness. She made a point about how the institute will be aware of the addresses of recipients. That information will come via the awarding organisation to the institute. Students must apply to the Secretary of State for their certificate. If I have not answered all the points that the noble Baroness is concerned about, I am happy to discuss this with her further and to provide more information. In that spirit, I hope she will feel reassured to withdraw her amendment.

Baroness Garden of Frognal Portrait Baroness Garden of Frognal
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for his reply. I am slightly bemused because employers seem to understand very well the previous certificates that went out, with NVQ and awarding-body logos. There was not a particular confusion about the standards there. As I say, given that the awarding organisations already issue certificates, it would seem a much neater operation if it was combined into one certificate instead of having the confusion of two. I thank the noble Lord for his offer to have further discussion on this and meanwhile beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Technical and Further Education Bill

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Moved by
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

That the Bill do now pass.

Lord Nash Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, before the Bill’s Third Reading draws to a close, I take this opportunity to thank all those involved for their interest in and engagement with the Bill over the past few months. There have been important contributions on the Bill from all sides of the House, and we have had very well-informed and thoughtful debates on a number of issues that are critical to ensuring the future health of our country’s technical and further education sectors. In particular, I thank noble Lords for their efforts to strengthen the areas covered by this legislation, which we will take forward when the Bill and its related policies are implemented. I very much hope that discussions continue with noble Lords about technical and further education. There is much work to be done in this area, so the expertise and wisdom of noble Lords is very welcome.

Yesterday, I met the noble Baronesses, Lady Garden and Lady Watkins, to discuss the failure of private providers and, in particular, the support given to learners affected. I thank them for discussing this issue with me. I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Wolf, who was unable to attend but who has shared her thoughts with my officials. It is clear from our discussions that this is a matter requiring more detailed consideration before we take a view on what action is necessary. We are already taking steps to improve our monitoring of these providers. However, as I said yesterday, we will do further work to explore the scale of the issue and identify a proportionate response to ensure the right support is provided to learners in the rare instances of failure.

I am afraid there is not time to thank everyone who has been involved in the Bill during its passage through this House, but I would like to mention who I can. First, I thank my noble friends on the Government Benches, and in particular my noble friends Lady Vere and Lady Buscombe, who have provided strong support to the Bill. I also thank my noble friend Lord Baker, particularly for his amendment regarding careers advice in schools. I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Lucas for his in-depth engagement with the Bill, especially with respect to the issues of copyright and intellectual property. I pay tribute to my noble friend Lord Liverpool, whose thoughtful contributions included the important issue of the soft skills that young people need to thrive in the workplace.

I particularly thank the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Storey, who have provided rigorous scrutiny and opposition alongside their colleagues the noble Lords, Lord Hunt and Lord Stevenson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Garden. I thank also the noble Baronesses, Lady Cohen, Lady Donaghy and Lady Morris, and the noble Lords, Lord Young of Norwood Green, Lord Blunkett and Lord Knight, for their thoughtful contributions. While we have disagreed on some issues, I believe we are in broad agreement about the importance of the Bill and all support its ambition to improve technical and further education.

I am grateful also to my friends on the Cross Benches for their thoughtful contributions, including the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, and the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins. In particular, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Wolf, for her support on the Bill and her role in developing its underlying policy.

Finally, I thank policy officials and lawyers from the Department for Education and other government departments for their work on the Bill’s progress in this House.

It has been a privilege to debate this Bill with noble Lords. It will help pave the way for reforms to technical and further education. It will allow us to create a world-class technical education system that provides all young people with the opportunities they deserve, and let them secure sustained, skilled employment that serves the needs of our country, today and in the future. At the same time, the Bill’s further education insolvency regime will ensure that FE colleges are put on a secure financial footing in the long term. I commend the Bill to the House.

Technical and Further Education Bill

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Ping Pong: House of Commons
Wednesday 19th April 2017

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Commons Chamber
Technical and Further Education Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: Commons Consideration of Lords Amendments as at 19 April 2017 - (19 Apr 2017)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Robert Halfon Portrait The Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills (Robert Halfon)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move, That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 1.

John Bercow Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Lords amendment 6, Government motion to disagree, and Government amendment (a) in lieu.

Lords amendments 2 to 5 and 7 to 18.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

This Bill was introduced to transform the prestige and culture of technical education, providing young people with the skills that they, and our country, need. It provides necessary protection for students should colleges get into financial difficulty, and ensures that the most disadvantaged are able to climb the ladder of opportunity. It left this House after thoughtful scrutiny and, after similar diligence in the other place, I am delighted that it returns for consideration here today.

I ask hon. Members to support the Government on all amendments made to the Bill in the other place except amendments 1 and 6, where we have tabled an amendment in lieu. Amendment 1 impinges on the financial privilege of this House. I urge the House to disagree to that amendment and will ask the Reasons Committee to ascribe financial privilege as the reason.

The amendment, costing more than £200 million per year by financial year 2020-21, would mean that the parents of apprentices aged under 20 would continue to be eligible for child benefit for those young people as if they were in approved education and training. It is an issue in which I have a great interest. Apprenticeships provide a ladder of opportunity, and we should seek to remove obstacles to social mobility wherever we can.

A young person’s first full-time job is a big change for them and for their family, and it marks a move into financial independence that should be celebrated. I know that the adjustment can be challenging for the young person learning how to manage a starting wage and new outgoings and for parents who may experience a fall in income from the benefits they previously received for that dependent child. One of the core principles of an apprenticeship is that it is a job, and it is treated accordingly in the benefit system. It is a job that offers high-quality training and that widens opportunities. Moreover, more than 90% of apprentices continue into another job on completion. Most apprentices are paid above the minimum wage. The 2016 apprenticeship pay survey showed that the average wage for all level 2 and 3 apprentices was £6.70.

Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Although what the Minister is saying is correct, in that those apprentices will be paid, taking child benefit away from low-income families will be a disincentive for them to take up apprenticeships. Those families will be pressed to stay in education so that they can continue to get child benefit. Is that not the case?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The crucial point is that the vast majority of level 2 and 3 apprentices are paid more than £6.30 an hour, and 90% of them go on to jobs or additional education afterwards.

The apprenticeship programme already supports low-income groups. The funding system gives targeted support to the participation of care leavers, and this year we are making £60 million available to training providers to support take-up by individuals from disadvantaged areas. We are committed to ensuring that high-quality apprenticeships are as accessible as possible to people from all backgrounds. We will take forward the Maynard recommendations for people with learning difficulties and our participation target for black and minority ethnic groups.

With regard to the amendment’s suggestion of a bursary for care leavers, I understand that some young people have greater challenges to overcome. That is why we are providing £1,000 to employers and training providers when they take on care leavers who are under 25. We will also pay 100% of the cost of training for small employers who employ care leavers. There is scope for apprenticeships to benefit social mobility even more. We are working across Government to use the apprenticeship programme to extend opportunities.

I am grateful to Lord Storey for tabling Lords amendment 6, which introduces a new clause into the Bill to require Ofsted to take into account the quality of the careers offer when conducting standard inspections of further education colleges. I welcome the work that Ofsted has already done to sharpen its approach. Matters relating to careers provision feature in all the graded judgments made by Ofsted when inspecting FE and skills providers. Destination data—published in 16 to 18 performance tables for the first time this year—are also becoming an established part of college accountability. Those are important steps.

I pay tribute to the good work that is already being done throughout the FE sector to prepare students for the workplace. Ofsted’s annual report for 2015-16 cites the excellent work of Derby College, which has set up employer academies so that learners benefit throughout their course from a range of activities, including workplace visits, talks from specialist speakers, masterclasses and enterprise activities. However, Ofsted noted in the same report that the quality of information, advice and guidance in FE providers can vary and does not always meet the full range of students’ needs. That is why I want us to take this opportunity to go further.

Lords amendment 6 signals our determination to ensure that every FE student has access to good-quality, dedicated careers advice, which I know this House supports. That is vital if we are to tackle the skills gap and ensure that we make opportunities accessible to everyone. We have proposed some drafting changes to the amendment to ensure that it achieves its intended effect. The amendment makes it clear that in its inspection report Ofsted must comment on the quality of a college’s careers provision. I urge hon. Members to accept the amendment. FE colleges are engines of social mobility, and this is our chance to ensure that students from all backgrounds can access the support they need to get on the ladder of opportunity and to benefit from the best skills education and training.

I will now turn to the amendments that the Government are asking the House to accept without any further amendment. The Government support Lords amendment 2, which requires schools to give education and training providers the opportunity to talk directly to pupils about the approved technical education qualifications and apprenticeships they offer. I would like to place on the record my significant gratitude to Lord Baker of Dorking for tabling the amendment, and for his unstinting support for the Government’s technical education reforms. As I have explained, high-quality careers advice is the first rung on the ladder of opportunity and will play a key part in realising our ambition for high-quality skills education and training. The amendment will strengthen the Bill by ensuring that young people hear much more consistently about the merits of technical education routes and recognise them as worthy career paths. I urge the House to agree to it. I hope that never again when I go around the country will I meet an apprentice who was refused access to the school they were taught in to talk about apprenticeships.

Ian Mearns Portrait Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab)
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I actually welcome that proposal. We have heard lots of evidence that schools are not allowing FE colleges and apprenticeship providers to access their students and to tell them what the options are post-16. That, of course, is because of the “bums on seats” funding regime for post-16 studies in schools. How are we going to get around the deep-seated culture in schools that prevents careers advisers and others from providing that independent, impartial advice to young people in schools?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The hon. Gentleman speaks a lot of sense on this issue. Every time I meet an apprentice, wherever I am in the country, I ask them, “Did your school encourage you to do an apprenticeship?” Nine times out of 10, they say that their school taught them nothing about apprenticeships and skills. We have already changed careers advice so that schools have to offer advice that includes apprenticeships and skills. I believe that Lords amendment 2 will make a huge difference, because technical bodies, apprenticeship bodies and university technical colleges will be able to go into schools, and schools will publish policy guidance on this.

I agree that a huge part of this is about cultural change. That is why my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State always talks about parity of esteem. Until we ensure that we have parity of esteem between skills and technical education and going to university—that is also a wonderful thing to do—we will not achieve the cultural change that the hon. Gentleman talks about.

Ian Mearns Portrait Ian Mearns
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There is a problem with that, because training providers themselves have a vested interest—just as much as the schools do—in securing those students for their courses or apprenticeships. Is it not true that we need a much more robust process for the provision of impartial advice and guidance that does not include anyone’s vested interests?

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
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We are looking at careers guidance in the long term, and at how we can make it more independent and skills-focused. I think that the work of the Careers & Enterprise Company in getting more people to do work experience, along with the money we are investing in these things, will help, but there are no easy answers. There are some great private providers, FE colleges and university technical colleges that I would love to see going into schools. However, I think that this is an important step forward to change the culture and ensure that pupils have the access to learn about apprenticeships and the technical education and skills that they need.

Lords amendment 3 introduces a new clause specifically providing for regulations to be made about the delivery of documents about an insolvent FE body to the registrar, and how those documents are kept and accessed by the public. Essentially, the new clause allows for the proper management of the paperwork of an insolvency procedure for an FE body.

I am pleased that the Government were able to accept amendment 4 in the other place, which deleted the words “if possible” from clause 25(2). The original drafting of subsection (2) was intended to offer reassurance to creditors and the education administrator that the education administration would not continue indefinitely while we waited for the education administrator to achieve the impossible. Instead, it caused concern, both in this House and in the other place, that student protection was in some way lessened. That was not our intention. Having sought the confirmation of lawyers that there was no change to our policy objectives, we were content to delete the words in order to address those concerns.

Lords amendment 5 replaced the original clause in the Bill with a new version in order to fully apply, rather than replicate, the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986 to further education bodies in England and Wales. The new version of clause 40—formerly clause 37 —still allows the court to disqualify any governors whom it finds liable of wrongdoing from being governors, and now also from being company directors in any part of the UK. It fully prevents disqualified individuals from being able to repeat the mistakes they have made in a different way, potentially at the expense of another FE institution. We have amended the clause to close a potential loophole in the Bill and more fully protect learners at FE institutions from the potential actions of any governor who acts recklessly.

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Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
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No, I am sorry, but I am not going to give way again. The hon. Gentleman has had two shouts and he is out. [Interruption.] I am going to continue, so he can stop chuntering.

This will inevitably have a negative effect on the family income in circumstances where the household budget is not covered by the earnings in an apprentice’s salary, given that the apprentice minimum wage is barely over £3 an hour. The National Society of Apprentices made that point in its submission to the Committee, saying:

“It seems inconsistent that apprentices are continually excluded from definitions of ‘approved’ learners, when apprenticeships are increasingly assuming their place in the government’s holistic view of education and skills”.

If apprenticeships are to be seen as a top-tier option, then the benefits should be top tier too. University students receive assistance from a range of sources, from accessing finance to discounted rates on council tax. Apprentices currently do not receive many of those benefits. Their lordships believe, and we agree, that the system must be changed so that both groups are treated equally.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
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I thank the hon. Gentleman for the way in which he is approaching these amendments. He mentioned that some apprentices were paid more than the apprentice minimum wage. Is he aware that 82% of apprentices are paid at or above the appropriate level of the national minimum wage or national living wage?

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Those figures come from the Minister’s Department, and I am not going to dispute them on this occasion. We are trying to set, in legislation, provisions that will be valid for five, 10 or 15 years. It seems far more appropriate to have a principle under which everybody has equal access. We can trade figures all day about whether this is acceptable or whether it is 10%, 15%, 20% or 25% of apprentices who are not in this position. I do not believe that we should go down this route, and Members of the House of Lords agreed when they passed this amendment.

Shakira Martin, the NUS vice-president for FE, says:

“If apprenticeships are going to be the silver bullet to create a high-skilled economy for the future, the government has to go further than rhetoric and genuinely support apprentices financially to succeed.”

In support of this amendment, the Learning and Work Institute has said:

“There are currently participation penalties for low income and disadvantaged young people who take an apprenticeship compared to an academic pathway. This amendment would help towards treating apprentices and students in further and higher education equally in the support and benefits system.”

The Government’s decision to exclude apprenticeships from the category of approved education or training will serve as a deterrent to young people, particularly those from disadvantaged backgrounds. Together with that, and without any change to the category that apprentices are placed in by the DWP—FE has to accept that, as things stand at the moment—the Government are providing a severe financial disincentive for young people to enter into an apprenticeship as opposed to other routes of education. The National Society of Apprentices agrees.

In the other place, the Minister’s colleague, Baroness Buscombe, said that there would be discussions about this issue with colleagues in the Department for Work and Pensions, but that did not happen. The Minister has told me on previous occasions that this needed to be addressed and discussed with other Departments, but that has not happened. This is a Government who are long on rhetoric but short on delivery, and it is young people and their families who are suffering. The Government are now blocking a modest proposal from the House of the Lords to begin to remedy their inability to do joined-up government.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The hon. Gentleman will know that, as I have mentioned before, we are carrying out a social mobility review of a whole range of issues, from benefits to incentives to providers and employers, to get more apprentices from disadvantaged backgrounds. It is entirely wrong to say that we are not doing so, as a significant amount of work is going into these areas.

Gordon Marsden Portrait Gordon Marsden
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I am grateful to the Minister. The broader perspective of social mobility is a perfectly reasonable way of going forward. However, to be honest, particularly at a time such as today when we are moving to a general election, I think that most people would be interested in some movement—some jam now rather than a promise of jam possibly in future from the social mobility study. I will come on to talk about other areas where, I am afraid, the Government have moved at, to put it at its kindest, a reasonably glacial pace. That is one of the reasons I am not terribly impressed by the Minister’s argument, although, as I say, I understand and appreciate his commitment to trying to do something.

I want to speak in support of the second part of the amendment, which talks about opening benefits to care leavers by opening up access to a bursary that has traditionally been available only to university students. Young people in local authority care who move into higher education can apply for a one-off bursary of £2,000 from their local authority, and the amendment would enable care leavers who take up apprenticeships to access the same financial support.

I remind the Minister of what the Children’s Society has said. Every year, around 11,000 young people aged 16 or over leave the care of their local authority and begin the difficult transition out of care and into adulthood—to be fair to him, he recognised that in his opening remarks—and my hon. Friend the Member for South Shields tabled an amendment to the Children and Social Work Bill to provide such a local offer to care leavers. The Government have a golden opportunity to follow up on that by focusing on support that could be provided by the DWP. I am at a loss to understand why the Government are ignoring this possibility. They could make provision from the apprenticeship levy for local authorities to administer a £2,000 grant to all care leavers.

When care leavers move into independent living they often begin to manage their own budget fully for the first time, and that move may take place earlier for them than for others in their peer group. Remember that a care leaver in year one of an apprenticeship may be, and often is, earning as little as £3.40 an hour before being able to transition to a higher wage in the second year. Evidence from their services and research has revealed how challenging care leavers may find it to manage that budget, because of a lack of financial support and education. As a result, young carers frequently fall into debt and financial difficulty. The Minister really needs to put himself in their shoes. The Minister for Vulnerable Children and Families, the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Edward Timpson), could tell us all, from his own family’s perspective, how vulnerable young people who come from disturbed and difficult family backgrounds can be.

The question remains: why are the Government not prepared to retain this amendment? Fine words are all very well, but you may know, Madam Deputy Speaker, that according to the old Tudor proverb, “Fine words butter no parsnips”. Just what are the bureaucratic arguments for doing nothing to support hard-working young people and their families—and, even more so, those who do not have families to support them—to fulfil their hopes of better times via an apprenticeship? We talk about parity of esteem between HE students and apprentices, but some of these young people, because of their circumstances, struggle to have a strong sense of self-esteem.

Why have the Government not moved on this? Once again, why have the consultations with the DWP not taken place? Was the Minister nobbled by No. 10 trusties or by those in his own Department, in the same way as Department for Education Ministers seem to have led us down the garden path of reforms to GCSE resits only to slam the door shut? I say as gently as I can to the Minister that if the Government do not retain the amendment, people will know that the Government’s rhetoric has been somewhat hollow, and apprentices and their families will suffer.

I join the Minister in supporting amendment 2, which was carried in the Lords, and I also want to talk about amendment 6. The lack of parity of esteem for apprentices starts at an early age, and, as my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) illustrated in his useful and constructive exchange with the Minister, the rhetoric on careers advice still does not match the painful reality that faces many young people.

The reality is that careers advice has been devastated over the last Parliament and since 2010, certainly at a local level, and young people who want to take a vocational and apprenticeship route are in danger of being short-changed again in their careers advice. Despite the work of the Careers & Enterprise Company, which is still in its infancy, support in schools remains poor. Careers England—the trade body for careers advice and guidance—and the Career Development Institute have confirmed to me recently that in their view, nothing has greatly changed. They estimate that only a third of schools can adequately deliver careers advice. Taken alongside the shortage of careers advisers and the fact that the remaining advisers earn far less than they used to, it adds up to a very difficult position.

That is one of the reasons why last November the co-chairs of the Sub-Committee on Education, Skills and the Economy, the hon. Member for Stroud (Neil Carmichael) and my hon. Friend the Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright), said that the Government had been complacent over careers advice. They said:

“The Government’s lack of action to address failings in careers provision is unacceptable and its response to our report smacks of complacency.”

I know that the Minister challenges that strongly, and I know that he has put on record that the Government are working towards a thorough careers strategy in that respect. But we have to deal with the situation as it is today, not with what it might be under a careers strategy developed by whatever Government are around at the end of the year.

In the survey conducted by the Industry Apprentice Council last year, just 42% of respondents found out about apprenticeships from school or college, and using one’s own initiative remained by far the most common way for a young person to discover apprenticeships. The council also said that there needed to be a change in careers information, advice and guidance because the proportion of respondents who said that theirs had been very poor remained high across the three surveys.

That is why the House of Lords has produced these two quite detailed and comprehensive amendments; those overall issues are not being addressed. Strong careers guidance is critical to promoting apprenticeships in schools. If we are to make a success of the institute, it is crucial that young people are alerted early enough in their school life to the importance and attraction of technical routes. That is one of the things that amendment 2 from the other House, which we supported, makes very clear.

If the Minister does not think that the Lords amendment on careers advice is necessary, perhaps he would like to explain just how and when the Government are going to get a grip on the existing fractured landscape of careers advice revealed by his own Department. Last month—it was not bedtime reading, so I will not be surprised if hon. Members have not read it—the Department for Education published a research report, “An economic evaluation of the National Careers Service”. The report was produced by London Economics, which was originally commissioned by the former Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to evaluate the impact of the National Careers Service.

The National Careers Service has changed considerably during the five years since it was introduced by the Minister’s predecessor, the right hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes). I had the benefit of discussions with him at the time, and he was very clear when it started that the National Careers Service would principally be for the over-24s. That process has changed. I am not necessarily criticising that, but the process has certainly migrated in an unplanned fashion. The National Careers Service website says that anyone aged 13 and over can have access to the data, and that adults aged 19 and over can have access to one-to-one support. The problem is that only 15% to 22% of the customers—again, I am taking statistics from a report that the Government have commissioned—were referred by Jobcentre Plus, while the remainder were self-referring. Does that not speak volumes about the lack of joined-up government between the Department for Education and the Department for Work and Pensions?

--- Later in debate ---
John Pugh Portrait John Pugh (Southport) (LD)
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I want to speak very briefly on the Government motion to disagree with Lords amendment 6 and Government amendment (a) in lieu, as much as anything else to probe what amendment (a) will achieve. As a preface to that, let me give an impression of what the noble Lord Storey sought to achieve with Lords amendment 6. We have all acknowledged during the course of the debate so far that careers advice is incredibly variable and has been for some considerable time. Lord Storey tried to set in place a mechanism for monitoring careers advice so that we know precisely how good or how bad, and how valuable or useless, it actually is.

In Committee stage in the Lords, Lord Nash described careers advice as always having been “pretty poor”. There was, of course, an Ofsted report in 2013 that established that three quarters of schools were not providing effective advice or, as the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) pointed out, impartial advice. It said that the guidance given to schools was not sufficiently explicit, employers were not engaging in many cases and the National Careers Service was not effectively promoted. A key conclusion of the Ofsted report was that schools’ advice should be assessed when taking into account general school leadership, or sector leadership in the case of further education—Lords amendment 6 also applies to the FE sector.

I think that the Minister accepts all that, and I know that he has produced a variation on Lords amendment 6. I would like him to satisfy me and the House that it complies with what the Lords intended in their amendment.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Member for Southport (John Pugh) and the shadow Minister for their speeches. I understand that the hon. Member for Southport is stepping down. He is an experienced Member of the House, and I send him every good wish for the future.

To answer the hon. Gentleman we are essentially accepting de facto Lords amendment 6, which was suggested by Lord Storey. We have just made it tighter for legal reasons and, in fact, stronger. Ofsted will now be required to comment on college careers offers in its reports. However, we accept the principle of Lords amendment 6.

I set out earlier the Government’s position that the majority of the Lords amendments serve to strengthen the measures in the Bill and ensure their success in practice. I urge hon. Members to accept all the amendments made in the Lords, with the exception of Lords amendment 1. As I explained earlier, that amendment is subject to financial privilege and I ask Members to reject it on that basis, while noting the work I have set out, which demonstrates our commitment to finding the most effective ways to address barriers and support the disadvantaged into apprenticeships.

The shadow Minister said, in essence, that we should put our money where our mouth is. It is worth remembering that we have 900,000 apprentices at the moment, which is the highest on record, and that 25% of apprentices come from the poorest fifth of areas. The Careers & Enterprise Company has more than 1,300 enterprise advisers going into schools, and they are set to target something like 250,000 students in 75% of the career coldspots in the country. The National Careers Service is there to give careers advice and CV advice, and to provide personal contact either face to face, over the telephone or on the internet. The bodies have different roles.

I ask Members to accept our amendment in lieu of Lords amendment 6, on which many noble Lords spoke. I spoke earlier of the positive activity at Derby College. It is by no means the only college taking active steps to provide high-quality careers advice to students. I have seen incredible work in my own college in Harlow and in Gateshead in the north-east of England. We want to ensure that all young people can access such support, and I ask Members to support that ambition by accepting the amendment in lieu.

Ian Mearns Portrait Ian Mearns
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I know that the Minister is determined and full of good intentions, but good intentions do not provide sound careers advice and guidance to young people who are in the system now. We need to see more urgency from the Government in backing up his decent intentions, to make sure that young people get the impartial advice and guidance they so deeply need as soon as possible.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Let me give the hon. Gentleman our intention. Given the financial climate, £90 million is no small sum of money to spend on careers, predominantly with the Careers & Enterprise Company, which has enterprise advisers going into schools. There is £20 million for mentoring services in schools. As I mentioned, enterprise advisers are going up and down the country to coldspots. The National Careers Service alone is getting more than £75 million this year to advise on careers. That is real financial backing for two very important services.

Ian Mearns Portrait Ian Mearns
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am listening to the Minister. I was a member of the National Careers Service national association board prior to the invention of Connexions. I seem to remember that the national budget for careers at that time was something like £130 million. That was more than 15 years ago. In the current climate, the figures the Minister is talking about are inadequate.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Given the financial climate, the £90 million to be spent predominantly with the Careers & Enterprise Company and the £77 million that is going to the National Careers Service this year alone are sizeable sums of money. As I have said, we are developing a careers strategy. Obviously the election is occurring, but I hope very much that we will see careers with much more of a skills focus, and do much more work in schools on mentoring and on work experience.

I have said that the Bill is a Ronseal Bill. It is very much part of our reforms to create an apprenticeships and skills nation and to give millions of young people the ladder of opportunity to get the jobs, security and prosperity that they need. It is a Bill to ensure that technical education is held in the regard it deserves. In the unlikely event of a college insolvency, students will be protected. The measures in the Bill make vital changes to support young people to build the essential skills that our nation needs, and they provide the right support to enable young people to climb that ladder. Many Members on both sides of the House and in the other place have spoken in support of that ambition, and I take this opportunity to thank them for their ongoing commitment to the Bill and for supporting all our young people to reach their potential.

Question put, That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 1.

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15:43

Division 197

Ayes: 298


Conservative: 296
Democratic Unionist Party: 1

Noes: 182


Labour: 170
Liberal Democrat: 5
Democratic Unionist Party: 3
Social Democratic & Labour Party: 3
Ulster Unionist Party: 2
Conservative: 1
Green Party: 1

Lords amendment 1 disagreed to.

Technical and Further Education Bill

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

Read Full debate
Ping Pong (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 25th April 2017

(6 years, 11 months ago)

Lords Chamber
Technical and Further Education Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: HL Bill 125-I Marshalled list for consideration of Commons reason and amendment (PDF, 64KB) - (24 Apr 2017)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Moved by
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 1 to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 1A.

Commons Reason

1A: Because it would involve a charge on public funds, and the Commons do not offer any further Reason, trusting that this Reason may be deemed sufficient.
Lord Nash Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, this Bill is integral to the Government’s ambitious reforms for creating a world-class technical education system. These reforms will help to ensure that technical education in our country provides everyone with the skills and opportunities they need to succeed and gain skilled employment on a long-term basis, and at the same time they will serve the needs of our economy and reduce our skills gap. The Bill’s further education insolvency regime will also protect students at FE colleges in the event that their college faces financial difficulty.

I am very grateful for the interest and input from noble Lords across the House on the Bill, and in particular how they have helped strengthen the Bill and its related policy areas. It is quite clear that the Bill has strong cross-party support. I am glad that the Bill returns to this House for further debate on two amendments from the other place. I will deal with these amendments in turn. Given the volume of business we need to get through today, I will try to keep this brief, and I hope other noble Lords will join me in that endeavour.

Noble Lords will know that Lords Amendment 1 was rejected in the other place on the basis of financial privilege, and I request that this House respects the decision reached there. However, I would like to acknowledge the sentiment behind the amendment and to address some considerations. First, I understand that a drop in household benefits income and a shift of income from parents to a young person can be difficult to manage. However, we should give parents credit for supporting their children to enter apprenticeships and develop their own financial independence and long-term careers. The numbers testify to this: last year more than 200,000 young people under 19 were in apprenticeships.

Secondly, during the Bill’s passage, the Opposition compared the financial support available to full-time students and that available to apprentices, while giving very little attention to the matter of remuneration. Full-time students are forgoing employment and income opportunities to gain qualifications, often while paying to invest in their future. Apprenticeships are paid jobs, with high-quality free training. The 2016 apprenticeship pay survey showed that the average wage for all level 2 and 3 apprentices was £6.70 an hour. Apprentices are also increasing their future employment prospects and earnings: on average, level 2 and level 3 apprenticeships increase earnings in employment by 11% and 16% respectively.

Finally, we must target resources. The cost of the amendment is estimated at over £200 million per year by 2020. The benefits system quite rightly targets financial support towards greatest need, including for example dependants in low-income families. Benefits awards must take other sources of income into account. We also target funds carefully to support apprenticeships among key groups. We pay additional amounts to training providers in the most deprived areas. We also steer funding towards providers and employers for the youngest apprentices and for care leavers, as well as for those with learning difficulties and disabilities. As the new funding system beds in, we will continue to review how funding is targeted, including to support access to apprenticeship jobs for those from disadvantaged backgrounds.

Amendment 6A was tabled in the other place in lieu of an amendment tabled on Report by the noble Lords, Lord Storey and Lord Watson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Garden. The amendment proposes a new clause to the Bill which will require Ofsted to consider the quality of careers provision when conducting standard inspections of further education colleges. I am grateful to noble Lords and the noble Baroness for raising the issue of careers guidance in colleges and giving the Government the opportunity to consider this important matter further.

As the noble Lord, Lord Storey, explained so eloquently on Report, one of the most important things we need to do for young people is provide guidance and knowledge about careers. He rightly pointed out that this is particularly true for young people from disadvantaged backgrounds, who may not have access to networks of support to inform them about options and perhaps provide opportunities for them to do work experience. That is why it is vital that FE colleges—which take many students from areas of educational disadvantage—should make high-quality careers advice available to everyone.

Of course, there are a number of colleges already leading the way in this. Gateshead College embeds careers in all aspects of a student’s learning. JobLab provides dedicated support to help their students develop practical employment skills, and Career Coach provides labour-market data and maps out education, training and career options. I also recognise Ofsted’s commitment to evaluating the quality of careers advice and guidance in further education. Matters relating to careers provision feature in all four graded judgments that Ofsted makes when judging the overall effectiveness of a college. However, the Government are persuaded of the need to go further to ensure that young people can benefit from the best possible preparation for the workplace and acquire the skills and attributes that employers need. The amendment will send a clear signal that a high-calibre careers programme must be embedded in every college.

I hope I have reassured noble Lords that we agree wholeheartedly with the principle of the original Lords amendment. The drafting changes serve only to ensure that the amendment achieves its intended effect and that the language conforms to current legislation. The amendment now includes an explicit requirement for Ofsted to comment on the quality of the college’s careers provision in the inspection report.

I urge noble Lords to accept this amendment in lieu. It is our chance to ensure that all FE students can access the support they need to help them to achieve their full potential. As discussed earlier, I also ask noble Lords to respect the other place’s decision to reject Amendment 1 on the grounds of financial privilege. I beg to move.

Lord Watson of Invergowrie Portrait Lord Watson of Invergowrie (Lab)
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My Lords, I acknowledge that the Bill is a better one than when it began its progress through both Houses. We shall not seek to impede its journey to the statute book.

The addition of the amendment promoted by the noble Lord, Lord Baker, and others, represents an important step forward in ensuring that school pupils have explained to them the full range of options, not just those whose choice of an academic route might benefit the school’s coffers. It should not have been necessary for an amendment to be passed to secure that, because strong careers guidance is critical to promoting apprenticeships in schools. If the Government’s target for apprenticeship starts is to be achieved and sustained, as we all hope, then it is crucial that young people are alerted early enough in their school life to the importance and attraction of technical routes.

However, it is disappointing that the Government have not been willing to accept Amendment 1 passed by your Lordships on Report. The decision to exclude apprenticeships from the category of approved education or training will serve as a deterrent to some young people, particularly those from disadvantaged backgrounds. The Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills said last week:

“The crucial point is that the vast majority of level 2 and 3 apprentices are paid more than £6.30 an hour, and 90% of them go on to jobs or additional education afterwards”.—[Official Report, Commons, 19/4/17; col. 714.]


But that is not the crucial point; in fact, he has missed the point. At least 90% of university graduates go on to jobs or additional education, so there is no difference in that respect. And whether apprentices earn £3.50 an hour—the legal minimum, which, as I said on Report, not all of them get—or £6.50 an hour, their parents are still disqualified from receiving child benefit. That is the nub of the issue. Clearly, though, we have not been successful in convincing Ministers of that point.

It was interesting to read last week of the Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills, in defence of the Government’s position, coming up with a figure of some £200 million a year by 2020-21. So apprentices—the young people we need to train in order to fill the skills gaps that we know exist—are to be treated unfavourably compared to their peers who choose full-time study because of the cost. The Government can miraculously find £500 million to create new grammar schools yet cannot find £200 million to ensure that the number of apprentices from the poorest families rises from its current very low level of just 10%. If there is logic in that policy stance, it escapes me. The noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe, said in Committee that she would discuss this issue with ministerial colleagues in the DWP. By Report there had been no such meetings, and we learned from the debate in the other place last week that those meetings have still not taken place. So where did the £200 million figure appear from, if not the DWP?

In passing, I say to the Minister that I submitted a Written Question asking for the Government’s workings that produced the £200 million figure. As I understand that those Questions disappear on Dissolution, I ask him to write to me with the answer so that we can gain an understanding of the foundation on which the Government have erected the barrier to treating apprentices as “approved learners”.

On Amendment 6, initially I was dismayed that the Government were unwilling to accept the will of your Lordships’ House on careers advice in further education colleges, although that was perhaps not too surprising as the Minister told us on Report that it was not necessary. However, the Government’s amendment in lieu actually appears to be stronger than the original amendment. First, it goes further than further education colleges and refers to “FE institutions”, which of course covers all training providers on the register.

Secondly, the original amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Storey, which your Lordships’ House voted for at Report, called on Ofsted to “take into account” the careers advice made available to students by colleges. Government Amendment 6A states that Ofsted must,

“comment on the careers guidance provided to relevant students at the institution”.

For that reason, I welcome Amendment 6A, as Ofsted will be obliged to be proactive in reporting what it discovers in FE colleges that it inspects. That is certainly to be welcomed, although it comes with the caveat that it will apply only to those colleges that Ofsted actually inspects. How many will be? Realistically, how many can it be?

At Report, I asked the Minister to give an assurance that Ofsted would be adequately resourced; I fear that he did not reply. Mr Marsden asked the same question of the Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills, and he did not reply, so perhaps the Minister can now tell noble Lords how many additional staff Ofsted will have to enable it to inspect as many training providers as possible out of the 2,000 likely to emerge. It cannot do that with its existing staff, and we have a right to know what additional resources Ofsted will receive to enable it to cope with large new demands. I look forward to his response on that. I suggest that he must have one because it is surely inconceivable that he and/or his officials have not met Amanda Spielman or her deputy, Paul Joyce, to discuss the resources that they will require as a direct result of the Bill.

We are now at the end of a process that has produced the Bill, which will strengthen the sector but could have achieved much more. I thank all noble Lords who have participated in our debates, as well as Ministers, who have moved some way, if not as far as we would like, during our deliberations.

Lord Baker of Dorking Portrait Lord Baker of Dorking (Con)
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My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Watson of Invergowrie, for deciding not to press his amendments on this case. I know how strongly he feels about it, but it will be possible to revisit that after the whole principles of apprenticeships have been set up. I think that it is generally agreed by all sides of the House that this is an important Bill and a beneficial Bill. It is a major step forward in improving the technical education of our country. It has been handled very well by the Minister and his department, and we should speed it to the statute book.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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My Lords, I have discussed the Government’s response to the two amendments that have returned to this House from the other place and asked noble Lords to agree the Motions from the other place on those two amendments. In response to the noble Lord, Lord Watson, about where the £200 million estimate came from, I can say that it is estimated by the DfE, HMRC and HM Treasury, using apprenticeship participation data and HMRC child benefit data—HMRC, not the DWP, pays child benefit—but I will still write to him on the matter he mentioned.

As for Ofsted, I have personally discussed this with it. It is satisfied that it is adequately resourced at the moment, but we will keep this under review. As I said, the Bill has strong cross-party support. Several noble Lords from across the House have mentioned that previous Governments have attempted unsuccessfully to raise the status of technical education—I remember a particularly powerful speech by the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, on this—but I am confident that under the leadership of Minister Halfon, who I am delighted to see is in the House today, we will seize this opportunity to raise the status of technical education in this country.

I thank again all noble Lords for their participation on this Bill. I am absolutely sure that the legislation is in much better shape thanks to their scrutiny, as always. I commend the Bill to the House.

Motion A agreed.
--- Later in debate ---
Moved by
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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That this House do not insist on its Amendment 6 and do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 6A in lieu.

Commons Amendment in lieu

6A: Page 19, line 5, at end insert—
“Careers advice in further education institutions: Ofsted inspection
(1) Section 125 of the Education and Inspections Act 2006 (inspection of further education institutions) is amended as follows.
(2) In subsection (4) (matters to be dealt with in inspection report), after paragraph (a) (but before the “and” at the end) insert—
“(aa) must, in a case where it relates to an institution within the further education sector, comment on the careers guidance provided to relevant students at the institution,”.
(3) After subsection (7) insert—
“(8) In this section—
“careers guidance” includes guidance about undertaking any training, education, employment or occupation;
“relevant student” means a student—
(a) who is aged under 19, or
(b) who is aged 19 or over and is someone for whom an EHC plan is maintained.””