Childcare Bill: Joint Online Childcare Application
Sam Gyimah Excerpts(8 years, 10 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Mr Sam Gyimah)
During Second Reading of the Childcare Bill, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education announced that our extended childcare entitlement will be delivered via a joint online application being developed by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC).
As I outlined during Committee Stage of the Childcare Bill, the Department for Education will be providing HMRC with funding for the development of the joint online application and eligibility checking system.
I can confirm today that for 2015-16, urgent expenditure estimated at £1 million will be met by repayable cash advances from the Contingencies Fund.
The development of the joint online application will mean that parents and children who will be eligible to benefit from both the extended entitlement and tax-free childcare will be able to apply for both schemes through one simple and straightforward system, saving them valuable time.
[HCWS481]
Children in Care
Sam Gyimah Excerpts(8 years, 10 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Mr Sam Gyimah)
I will begin by explaining why I am answering this debate in place of the Minister for Children and Families, my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Edward Timpson). I am sorry to tell the House that his mother, Alex Timpson, died peacefully at home on Tuesday after a long illness. Many people in this House will know that, with her husband John, Alex fostered around 90 children over 30 years, as well as adopting two boys into their family.
My hon. Friend has always said that it was living with his mother’s seemingly boundless enthusiasm to give so much selfless love and support to so many desperately needy children that truly shaped who he is today. I know that he would very much have wanted to speak from the Front Bench about children in care, including those who were cared for by Alex. Our thoughts are with him and his family. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”]
This is an important debate. Much has been said about the role of kinship carers. A casual comment was made that suggested that they are somehow overlooked in the care system. I assure the Chamber that they are very much part of the Department’s plan. Issues have been raised about the welfare reforms and what needs to be done. The Minister for Children and Families will respond to the Members who raised those points in due course.
Enza Smith, the founder of Kinship Carers UK, was awarded an MBE for services to children in the new year’s honours list because of the important research it is doing into support mechanisms for kinship carers. My hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr Walker) has brought that issue to the attention of the Minister for Children and Families a number of times. I want to highlight the fact that kinship carers are very important and key to our thinking.
The decision to take a child into care and the decisions that flow from it—whether the child will return home at a future point, stay in long-term foster care or be adopted—are serious and life-changing. They affect not only children but their families, and are never taken lightly. That is why I welcome the opportunity to set out the Government’s position in the brief time I have.
The Prime Minister has made it clear that the Government are determined that no child should be left behind. That determination is even more pronounced when it comes to the most vulnerable children in our society. It means taking robust action to support families and children so that the need for children to enter care is reduced. It also means improving the children’s care system, so that when children need to be taken into public care, they are well looked after and supported to fulfil their potential. When children enter care, the state is their parent. We should want the same for those children as we want for our own: the very best start in life.
The Family Rights Group and its excellent work have been mentioned in this debate. The Department has funded the Family Rights Group for many years and it provides a valuable service to many families who have taken on the care of children who are relatives. There is a strong evidence base for continuing to fund its helpline. We will take that into account in making forthcoming decisions about voluntary sector funding.
My hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) talked about the Munro duty. The Government acknowledge the vital role that early help can play in getting help to children and families as soon as need arises. I will say a little more about that in due course. The Government considered implementing an early help duty based on Professor Munro’s recommendation, but concluded that an explicit duty was not necessary as there was existing statutory provision under the Children Act 2004 for such support. The Government agreed to keep the matter under review and we continue to do so. However, we have strengthened our statutory guidance to make it clear that early help services should be part of the continuum of support to vulnerable children. The guidance sets out the need for teachers, health visitors and police to be alert to the indicators of abuse and neglect, and to work with families and children to undertake an early help assessment and agree a package of support to prevent needs from escalating.
More broadly, the Government are committed to ensuring that children are protected from the risk of abuse and neglect. We want to ensure that all those children are identified early and have timely and proportional assessments of their individual needs, and that the right services are provided for them. As many Members have said today, that does not necessarily mean taking them into care. Nevertheless, that is sometimes the right decision. Such decisions are never easy, and the systems in which they are made can always be improved.
To that end, over a two-year period to March 2016, we invested £100 million in the children’s social care innovation programme to support 53 projects in developing, testing and spreading more effective ways to support children and families who are in need of help from social care services. The programme concentrates on two priorities. The first is rethinking children’s social work to empower and support front-line decision making, ensuring that that focuses on the quality of work with children and their families rather than management arrangements, processes and compliance. The second is rethinking support for adolescents in or on the edge of care.
In a world where, far from a spending a lifetime in care, the average length of a care episode is 785 days, we are not talking about supporting children only once they are in care. Through the innovation programme, we have supported several projects to find different ways of supporting children in their families before matters reach that stage.
There are many projects about which I cannot go into detail, given the time. However, much of what we are considering draws together a lot of practical work that can deliver for children who find themselves in vulnerable situations.
Despite all the very good work, it is inevitable that there will always be times when local authorities are required to act by taking children into care. The Children Act 1989 requires us to ask one fundamental question: what is in the best interests of the child? That is why, in addition to all the preventive work that I have mentioned, we have taken important measures to ensure that, once children are taken into care, they are safe and well looked after.
In residential care in particular, we have reformed the care planning in children’s homes regulations to improve children’s safety, including strengthening safeguards for when children are placed out of area and go missing. We have introduced new quality standards for residential settings. Work is under way with the Association of Directors of Children’s Services review to ascertain how better co-ordination and planning can be achieved across our secure children’s homes so that there is better provision.
My hon. Friend the Minister for Children and Families has set out a lot of work over the past few months. Again, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Telford (Lucy Allan) and the other sponsors on bringing the debate forward. I look forward to working with hon. Members to make the world a better place for vulnerable children.
School Revenue Funding Settlement 2016-17
Sam Gyimah Excerpts(8 years, 11 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Mr Sam Gyimah)
Today I am announcing details of school revenue funding for 2016-17. My announcement includes the dedicated schools grant (DSG), the education services grant (ESG) and the pupil premium.
The distribution of the DSG to local authorities will continue to be set out in three spending blocks for each authority: a schools block, a high-needs block and an early years block.
The schools block has been allocated on the basis of the schools block units of funding announced in my statement to the House on 16 July 2016. To protect schools from significant budget reductions, we will continue with a minimum funding guarantee that ensures no school sees more than a 1.5% per pupil reduction in its 2016-17 budget—excluding sixth form funding and ESG—compared to 2015-16, and before the pupil premium is added.
We have been able to provide an additional £92.5 million for the DSG high-needs block. The high needs block supports provision for pupils and students with SEN and disabilities (SEND), from their early years to age 25, and alternative provision for pupils who cannot receive their education in schools.
The DSG early years block comprises funding for the 15 hour entitlement for three and four-year-olds; participation funding for two-year-olds from the most disadvantaged backgrounds; and the early years pupil premium. The rates per child for this block will be maintained at their 2015-16 level.
The ESG retained duties rate will remain at £15 per pupil. We have applied an efficiency saving to the ESG general funding rate for 2016 to 2017, and the rate will reduce from £87 per pupil to £77 per pupil. We will continue to provide a protection to limit the reduction of academies’ budgets as a result of changes to the ESG.
The pupil premium per pupil amounts for 2016-17 will be protected at the current rates, which are:
Pupils | Per pupil rate |
|---|---|
Disadvantaged pupils: Primary | £1,320 |
Disadvantaged pupils: Secondary | £935 |
Pupil Premium Plus: Looked After Children (LAC)1 and those adopted from care or who leave care under a Special Guardianship Order or Child Arrangements Order (formerly known as a residence order). | £1,900 |
Service children | £300 |
1A looked after child is defined in the Children Act 1989 as one who is in the care of, or provided with accommodation by, an English or Welsh local authority. |
Pupil premium allocations for financial year 2016 to 2017 will be published in June 2016 following the receipt of pupil number data from the spring 2016 schools and alternative provision censuses.
As announced in the Chancellor’s spending review statement we will introduce a national funding formula from 2017. We will consult on proposals in the new year.
Details of these arrangements have been published on gov.uk.
[HCWS432]
Childcare Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting)
Sam Gyimah Excerpts(8 years, 11 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Mr Sam Gyimah)
The hon. Lady makes the excellent point that early years provision is absolutely vital to give children the best start in life and to narrow the gap. Does she agree that introducing 15 hours of free early education for disadvantaged two-year-olds is a big step in that direction?
Pat Glass
I absolutely agree, but it is equally important that the children who need access to the best teachers are not pushed out of the system, or not pushed into provision that is not good or requires improvement. I do not know whether the Minister has had a chance to look at the Ofsted report, but the chief inspector of schools clearly says that far too many of our disadvantaged children are not getting access to the best provision and too many end up in childcare settings and schools that require improvement.
If we want to narrow the gap—clearly, we all do—it is not enough for the Government to simply will this. They have to will the means as well as the ends. Admissions is a key factor in making that happen. As somebody who has managed admissions over the years, I know they are tricky, but they came under one of the areas that I managed and quite liked. I understood why parents got really angry if they could not get their child into the school that they wanted. I had a huge amount of sympathy for them. When I managed admissions, I always tried to get a balance between having not too many surplus places but enough to give parents the access that they needed to the schools that they wanted. So I understand how tricky admissions can be.
Parental choice is a myth that continues to be talked about a lot. It is really parental preference, but in far too many cases it is not parental preference that presides, but school choice. Schools make choices about children.
Pat Glass
I would not disagree with the hon. Lady. She needs to make a speech, because she makes some good points. I am not for one moment underestimating the difficulties of doing this, and I will address the issue of admissions in early years. Such admissions are not statutory, which makes it even trickier. However, just because it is tricky, it does not mean to say that we should not at least try to address it.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady has referred to Ofsted’s latest annual report a number of times, and I draw the Committee’s attention to what it says:
“Children in England now start their lives with a high chance of spending all of their early educational experiences up to the age of 11 in a good or outstanding early years provider and primary school.”
The report also says:
“Early education has never been stronger”.
Pat Glass
I am sure the report does say that, and I am sure I could go through the report, which is very thick, and pick out all kinds of things that support my argument. If the Minister goes straight to the main recommendations at the front, he will see that the chief inspector’s No. 1 recommendation—I have not had to scour the report to support my argument—is about disadvantaged two-year-olds getting access to the best provision. That is so much of an issue that the inspector has put it right there on the front page.
Pat Glass
I accept that. The issue of admissions is tricky, but that is not a reason to ignore it. I entirely accept that it becomes more complicated in the early years, pre-school and childcare sectors because there is no statutory requirement. Where there is a shortage of provision, such as in areas with just one provider, effective provisions choose children, and provision operates on a first come, first served basis everywhere else.
The most able, advantaged and well organised usually get their children’s names down first for outstanding provision, and it is equally true that the disadvantaged and less well organised tend to lose out. That is borne out by the Ofsted report. Children who would be assessed as disadvantaged do get access to provision that is good and outstanding—we are not saying that they do not—but far too many children from such disadvantaged homes end up in provision that is judged to be requiring improvement or failing, and the cycle of disadvantage and failure begins all over again. We accept the difficulties, but we have to intervene somewhere. We have to look at the best triggers for intervention to stop that cycle.
Pat Glass
I am using exactly the same definition of “disadvantage” as the Department does when it looks at disadvantaged two-year-olds. The amendment would require childcare providers to give priority for admission to children who have been assessed as disadvantaged in the allocation of childcare provision. We know who those children are. Health visitors and social workers are already identifying and assessing disadvantaged two-year-olds, so it is simply about taking that forward. Extending it to childcare provision for four and five-year-olds would require little effort. If the Government are serious about narrowing the gap, if they want to get the acceleration in narrowing that gap going again—the acceleration is slowing—if they are serious about making the step change that is needed to raise the achievement of all children and if they want more and more children to be educated in outstanding childcare provision, hopefully the Minister will support this amendment.
Alex Cunningham
I am pleased to support amendment 14, which, as my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham has outlined, would require children assessed as being disadvantaged to be given priority in the allocation of childcare places in settings that have been classed as outstanding. Members will recall from the Committee’s sitting on Tuesday that there is substantial evidence to show that high-quality early education and childcare have a positive impact on children’s development. Importantly in the context of amendment 14, that is particularly true for children from low-income families, who are more likely to fall behind. There is overwhelming evidence that children assessed as being disadvantaged are less likely to be able to access outstanding childcare provision, as my hon. Friend has said. Instead, they are much more likely to be able to access childcare that requires improvement.
We face the sorry reality of knowing that children from disadvantaged backgrounds are much more likely to fall behind. My hon. Friends and I have spelled out the facts in earlier Committee sittings. One in four children in England arrive at primary school without good early language development, and that figure rises to one in three for children from disadvantaged backgrounds, who, as I mentioned in support of new clause 1, start school on average 15 months behind their peers in language and vocabulary skills.
Many organisations with expertise in the sector have agreed that action is needed to close the attainment gap between the most disadvantaged children and their better-off peers. Closing the gap has been an aspiration of successive Governments over the last 20 years or so, but despite record levels of spending on education between 1997 and 2010, some of which the current Government have built on—a little, at least—that gap is still much in evidence. The Government will have the support of all Opposition Members if they can narrow it over the Parliament. The Minister knows, as does everyone else, that closing the gap has to start with our youngest. If he gets that right in the Bill, he will go down as a success, but if he does not, he will simply end up with a report card that says, “Could do better.”
Alex Cunningham
Yes, and that is good news, but there are still 15% who are not. The organisations that we speak to and that brief us tell us that the most disadvantaged are still the most likely to lose out on the best provision. In the testimony given to the House of Lords Affordable Childcare Committee, published in February this year, there was strong consensus on the evidence for the persistence of the gap and its effects. Barnardo’s, for instance, noted the
“consistent and large gap in educational attainment in the UK, based on income”.
The Early Childhood Research Centre noted a
“19 month vocabulary gap at age 5 between children from the poorest and most affluent families”.
The Child Poverty Action Group spoke of intergenerational poverty being far greater in the UK than elsewhere, with children
“far more likely to follow in their parents’ footsteps in terms of income and educational level.”
For context, 53% of children in the 30% most deprived areas of England in 2014 achieved a good level of development in the early years foundation stage profile, compared with 65% of children in other areas. As the Minister knows, that gap of 12 percentage points has remained unchanged since 2011. That hiatus should be all the evidence we need to convince us that positive steps are required actively to address the sorry situation and revitalise efforts to close the attainment gap.
I am clear that the only route to resolving this unacceptable situation, and righting the inequality of opportunity that many children and young people from disadvantaged backgrounds face growing up, is to take action to level the playing field from the outset. We all accept that early education has a crucial role to play in helping disadvantaged children to catch up with their most advantaged peers. The Minister has accepted that as the case for investment, and he has made that clear. I do not need to remind him that in the light of the evidence of the difference to school readiness that early education makes, he suggested that
“being able to invest in it early, especially for the disadvantaged”
was key to narrowing the attainment gap. Indeed, the House of Lords Committee recommended that the Government consider targeting more resources at the most disadvantaged children because that is where the strongest evidence of the impact of high-quality education lies. It is not, however, clear that the Bill addresses that recommendation. I am therefore pleased to support the amendment to correct that oversight. It would give priority for high-quality childcare provision to those children identified as being from disadvantaged backgrounds and who are more likely to fall behind. Such a step would not only be a move towards closing the attainment gap, but would contribute to raising overall attainment levels. It is the right thing to do and I hope the Minister will join me in supporting the amendment.
Mr Gyimah
Once again, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Dorries. At the start of the line-by-line scrutiny of the Bill, I said that there were three aims behind our childcare policy: to enable parents to work more hours; to help parents with the cost of living; and to give children the best start in life with high-quality early education.
Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab)
Does the Minister recognise that a mother’s education is the single biggest factor in how well her children go on to achieve? As we are focusing on children’s attainment, does he agree that helping women in education to access this childcare provision would be a step towards one of his three aims?
Mr Gyimah
Obviously helping women in education is a broad aim of the Government, but those are the three objectives of this particular Bill. The amendment addresses the third objective of giving children the best start in life, and I am grateful to hon. Members for tabling it, as it draws attention to the importance of closing the gap in achievement between disadvantaged children and their peers. I am pleased to say that more children, including those in receipt of free school meals, are now achieving a good level of development at the end of the early years foundation stage. In 2015, 66.3% of children achieved a good level of development. That figure was up from 51.7% in 2013. In 2015, 51% of children on free school meals achieved a good level of development compared with 45% in 2014. That is the equivalent of an extra 5,800 children. The gap in achievement between disadvantaged children and other children has narrowed from 18.9 percentage points in 2014 to 17.7 percentage points in 2015, which is welcome news. However, the gap is still too large and the Government are absolutely committed to narrowing it.
Alex Cunningham
As the Minister says, that development is very much to be welcomed. I appreciate that the current Government and the previous coalition Government built a little bit on what Labour achieved in government when we funded education properly for the first time in a generation. However, there is still the same attainment gap that there has been since 2011. There has been a slowdown. What will the Minister do about that? Backing the amendment would help.
Mr Gyimah
I will come to the practicalities and issues of the amendment, which my hon. and learned Friend the Member for South East Cambridgeshire pointed to so deftly in her comments. The hon. Gentleman asked what we are doing to help to narrow the attainment gap. That is the reason we extended the pupil premium into the early years with the introduction of the early years pupil premium this year, providing £50 million of additional funding to support the early education of disadvantaged three and four-year-olds. The extra funding, worth 53p an hour—about £300 a year—goes directly to providers to help them to increase the quality of their setting. I am pleased that the feedback from local authorities is that providers are using the additional funding to achieve exactly that.
Pat Glass
I thank the Minister; that was exactly what I was going to ask about. There is a lot of evidence currently emerging that shows that, when the pupil premium is being used and targeted at specific children and specific programmes, it is making a difference. When it is simply backfilling funding, as it appears the Minister is doing with this, it is not making any difference at all. Why is he so convinced that it will make a difference in the early years?
Mr Gyimah
The pupil premium is not backfilling funding. To re-hash the funding debate, the £300 million uplift that was provided by the Chancellor in his spending review excludes the pupil premium. The pupil premium is not being used to backfill core funding. It is a new initiative—I think it started earlier this year. I will be the first to admit that there is some way to go to ensure providers are using it for the right interventions. Regarding the amendment specifically, however, what the pupil premium does is to put a higher price on the heads of disadvantaged children. If someone is a provider and they take on disadvantaged children, they get more money as a result, so there is already an incentive built into the system for good and outstanding providers to take on more disadvantaged children. There are more funds attached to those children.
Pat Glass
I do not want to burst the Minister’s bubble at all, but the additional pupil premium is not convincing schools to take on more children in receipt of free school meals, so what makes him think it will convince providers of early years? If it is not working with schools, do we not need something else to ensure good providers take on disadvantaged children?
Mr Gyimah
On good providers taking on disadvantaged children, specifically in the early years, we must acknowledge that the early years setting is very different. Schools are in the maintained sector, but here we have private providers. There are parents who have different ideas of where they want their children to take their early education. Some parents prefer childminders because they want their children to have their early education in a domestic setting; some would prefer a private nursery; and some would prefer a nursery in a school. In practice, as my hon. and learned Friend the Member for South East Cambridgeshire mentioned, making this proposal work would be tremendously difficult, because we would have to compel a private provider to take a specific type of child rather than operating on a “first come, first served” basis, which is how the system currently works.
The important news is that there are many good examples of how the pupil premium is working.
Alex Cunningham
I thank the Minister for giving way. However, even if his figures from the former Deputy Prime Minister’s pupil premium initiative are correct, we have got to concentrate on what is happening long before the pupil premium kicks in for young children. We need to be kicking in at the offer for two, three and four-year-olds. That is where we need the quality and the funding.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Gentleman is talking about having an intervention long before the early years pupil premium, which is for three and four-year-olds, kicks in. This is the Government who introduced for the first time ever early education for disadvantaged two-year-olds, spending something like £750 million a year on that. I would argue that we are already making that intervention. However, the Bill is about providing 30 hours for three and four-year-olds. I will just mention a few examples of how the early years pupil premium is helping disadvantaged three and four-year-olds.
In one nursery, the funding has been used for staff training and equipment, to help children achieving below their age-related averages on entry in mathematics, and in communication and language skills. Another provider has been able to employ a dedicated early years special educational co-ordinator and language specialist, to help children to develop attention skills, turn-taking and speaking in sentences. Another provider has put the funding towards the recruitment of specialist staff to communicate with the families and children who have English as an additional language, as well as to support their other learning needs. These are the sorts of interventions that really make a difference in narrowing the gap, and we will look to roll them out across the sector.
I am sure that hon. Members will share my view that the additional help and support can make a real difference to the most vulnerable children in our society, particularly as they get ready to start school. That is why the Conservative-led Government introduced the two-year-old entitlement, which has been maintained in the spending review. In June, local authorities reported that around 167,000 two-year-olds were already benefiting from a funded early education place, and that figure continues to rise.
That is an achievement for an entitlement that was only introduced as recently as three years ago, I think. We have seen rapid increases in take-up in local authorities that had initially struggled, with some remarkable increases in London, for example. However, we must remember that the offer to parents, as far as the education for two-year-olds is concerned, is voluntary. Parents do not have to enrol their two-year-olds in a nursery setting, and one of the projects that I worked on when I was first appointed as the childcare Minister was to consider how we can encourage more parents to take up the offer for two-year-olds.
Pat Glass
My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I will touch on the situation of single-parent families in a moment. Even in the most flexible and helpful of employment situations, parents tell me that if they each take two weeks’ leave, that still leaves them with two weeks in the summer to cover, and they have to prevail on wider family or friends or other solutions for those remaining two weeks. Parents tell me that they dread that time, and that should not be the case. The six-week summer holiday should be a time when parents and children can be together, and it should be a good time, not something that parents dread. I have even been told by some parents that after struggling to put childcare solutions together—prevailing upon their friends, family and acquaintances to the point where those people avoid them—they have still had to take unpaid leave, or in some extreme cases give up their job to cope with the summer holidays.
While for many couples it is a case of misery being better shared, single parents do not even have that, as my hon. Friend said. There is no one to share the childcare management with and no one to share the worry and the stress. The last Labour Government introduced a childcare vouchers scheme that was based on employment. Parents and employers could buy into the scheme, but I understand that the Government are phasing out the scheme and not allowing new applicants, and that is a shame. Those who used the scheme have told me that what they liked best about it was its flexibility.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady is absolutely right to say that the childcare vouchers scheme is being phased out, to be replaced with tax-free childcare. There were deficiencies in the childcare vouchers scheme. People had to have an employer that was willing to do the vouchers, which meant it was often only large employers. Self-employed people did not qualify, nor did people on the minimum wage. However, people who earned £1 million a year could still get the vouchers. Tax-free childcare strikes the right balance in focusing things on the parents who need it, while also having the same level of flexibility in the providers that parents can use and allowing different professions to use it. That means it applies to the self-employed and those on the national minimum wage.
The Chair
Order. Could we please keep the interventions a bit shorter, or we will never get to the end?
Alex Cunningham
I am pleased to support amendment 15, which would ensure that parents were given the flexibility to use their 30-day entitlement to free childcare throughout the year. It would ensure that they were not restricted in when and how they take the additional 15 hours.
As my hon. Friend said, the concept of flexibility is central to the success of the 30-hour offer. All children aged three and four are currently eligible for 15 hours of free early education each week, or 570 hours each year. That offer can be taken over the 38-week academic year or be stretched over the calendar year to provide roughly 11 hours of free childcare a week. Although those 15 hours are of some help to parents, we are all too aware that they are often available only in inflexible morning or afternoon sessions, and that they frequently do not correspond to parents’ child caring needs.
We have already heard that the availability of affordable and flexible childcare is widely recognised to be a central issue for families across the country. According to figures published by 4Children earlier this year, nearly one in five parents are considering reducing their hours or giving up work altogether because of the cost of childcare.
Mr Gyimah
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Bill doubles the entitlement to 30 hours, and that parents will be able to stretch it across the year and take it alongside tax-free childcare or the childcare element of universal credit—whichever applies to them? We are giving parents a lot more flexibility than he is acknowledging.
Alex Cunningham
That is extremely helpful. That is the reassurance we seek, but we need it to be spelled out in the Bill. Perhaps the Minister will say that in his speech.
When the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced in the summer Budget that the Government would extend free childcare, he said that there would be a pilot in 2016 and that it would be rolled out from 2017. The Minister has just said—this was not clear at the time—that there is elasticity around the additional provision. I hope he will reiterate that in his speech and tell us how he is going to spell it out in regulations—preferably, he will do it in the Bill—to give parents the flexibly that they need.
The 30-hour offer must account for parents who work atypical hours, irregular patterns and inconsistent shifts. The Family and Childcare Trust highlighted that 29% of mothers routinely work at atypical times, such as during the evening or at weekends. Childminders are the principal means through which flexibility is offered in formal childcare provision. Other parents—my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham referred to some of them—work full-time hours but are on zero-hours contracts, so they require even more flexibility in accessing childcare because they do not know when they will be working from one week to the next. I would welcome further clarification from the Minister on that issue.
There is also the challenge of ensuring that childminders have a role in providing flexible care. The Government’s proposals are not straightforward. Because of the increased competition from centre-based providers and the low levels of remuneration commonly available to childminders —often due to reduced fees from local authorities following central Government cuts—less than 1% of free early education for three and four-year-olds is currently delivered by childminders. If the Bill is to succeed in allowing parents to enter and stay in the kinds of jobs that are available to them, it is self-evident that childcare must be available to cover the hours they work. For that reason, it is important that free places are offered flexibly. The Minister has said that that is possible, but the sector must provide places when shorter or longer sessions are required. Parents must not be required to pay top-up fees because of when they need childcare.
It is also essential to get the balance right and ensure that quality is maintained as the free entitlement is extended. That means that the quality of the existing 15-hour entitlement should not be compromised by the reforms in the Bill. At the same time, questions remain on the pressing issue of how sessional and maintained providers will be both funded and supported to extend their offerings from part-time to full-time hours.
As the Committee has heard previously, 73% of three and four year-olds accessing free childcare at any one time are attending a school-based setting or sessional pre-school. Those schools and sessional pre-schools face barriers in extending provision to 30 hours each week.
Alex Cunningham
I thought I was staying within the scope of the amendment, about the flexibility required for 30-hour provision.
For instance, if pre-schools are to extend childcare across the full day, they face having to dramatically reduce the number of places they can offer. Similarly, there are core logistical hurdles that need to be overcome. Many sessional pre-schools, for instance, use shared community premises for part of the day at vastly reduced rates of rent. Those institutions would need to move to new premises and access additional funding to extend their offerings and provide the flexibility that is needed, unless the funding is available to keep complexes accessible. In the same vein, nursery class facilities in schools may not be suitable for day care, with many lacking vital rest areas and requiring significant adaptation to cater for children across a full day.
It is important to be absolutely clear that the 30-hour offer is valuable, at least on the face of it, because it significantly increases the potential flexibility available to parents to go out to work or progress towards work. Certainly, the extension of the free childcare entitlement can play an important role in providing parents with the support they need to balance work and childcare responsibilities. However, the extent to which that potential is realised is, of course, dependent on the degree of support and malleability the Government offer providers.
It is therefore imperative that we do all we can to ensure that the Bill delivers provision that is inclusive, high-quality and supports good outcomes for all children. That, in my view, necessarily entails a comprehensive package that gives parents a realistic option of using their 30-hour entitlement flexibly. Of course, it is all very well being able to use entitlement flexibly, provided the facilities and the offer are there for the community to access.
Mr Gyimah
The amendments are focused on ensuring that the 30-hour entitlement delivers sufficient flexible childcare for working parents. I completely agree with the principle of the amendments tabled in the other place and by the hon. Members for North West Durham, for Birmingham, Yardley and for Stockton North, which is that the extended entitlement should be delivered flexibly to support working parents.
However, delivering flexible provision is not simply about ensuring that childcare is available outside the hours of nine to five, as the amendment made in the other place suggests, or during the school holidays, as suggested in this debate. Each parent has different needs. Some parents will need childcare to cover the period between leaving work and picking up their child, while a number of parents of children with special educational needs want their child to spend part of their time in a mainstream setting and part of their time in a special educational needs setting.
Real flexibility, therefore, is about responding to the specific requirements of working parents, and I am passionately committed to delivering that. I feel strongly that setting out in primary legislation a requirement for local authorities to secure provision to meet each parent’s individual needs will not work in practice.
Alex Cunningham
I am interested in the school-based settings for nurseries. What work is the Minister planning across Government, and with local government in particular, to see how the provision and facilities that exist can be utilised during school holidays, thus offering flexibility to parents?
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Gentleman is alluding to the announcement we made earlier this week on wrap-around care, which will allow private providers to bid to use a school site to provide care for school-age children during the holidays. So we are already working on that. I will come later to what we can do for children under five.
Local authorities depend on the market to supply childcare places. We want them to work with local providers to transform the market and increase flexible childcare provision for parents with out-of-hours working patterns. It would not be reasonable to place a statutory duty on them to guarantee out-of-hours or holiday provision for every parent who wants it, since their local childcare market may not be able to deliver that.
Returning to the hon. Gentleman’s point about school nurseries, there are a number of local authorities, particularly in the north-east, where the majority of childcare is delivered by sessional providers such as maintained schools or nurseries. A large number of those providers cannot offer out-of-hours or holiday provision. As Lord Sutherland said in the other place, for those providers
“to continue provision outside their normal hours may well stop them operating completely”.—[Official Report, House of Lords, 14 October 2015; Vol. 765, c. 265.]
Placing a duty on local authorities will not change that overnight. It is also important to note that local authorities, rightly, cannot require private providers to deliver the free entitlement. Therefore it is simply not right to give them a legal duty to secure flexible provision for every parent in their area.
In my view, the way to promote flexible provision is to work with local authorities and providers to look for innovative ways to meet the needs of parents, and to encourage new providers to enter the market to give parents more choice. We should encourage provision to respond flexibly to demand. It does not make sense to require every local authority to secure a particular type of provision when parental working patterns and the type of demand for childcare will vary from area to area.
I reassure the Committee that there is already flexibility in the system used for the existing 15-hour entitlement, and we intend to build on that flexibility in delivering the extended entitlement. There is no requirement that free entitlement places can only be in line with school term dates, or during the hours of nine to five.
In fact, the previous Government changed the statutory guidance to enable local authorities to fund providers to allow parents to access places between 7 am and 7 pm, so that parents can drop off their children earlier in the day or collect them later. Providers can also stretch their entitlement across the full year rather than limiting them to term-time only provision, and a number already do that.
The Bill is very carefully drafted at clause 2(1) to say that the free childcare must be available for a period
“equivalent to 30 hours in…38 weeks”
so that the primary framework allows for the stretched offer. Some local authorities are already promoting flexible childcare provision, including Brighton and Hove City Council, where 82% of year-round nurseries offer a stretched entitlement; Blackpool local authority, where nurseries and childminders work in partnership to offer out-of-hours provision, including weekends and evenings; and Bradford Council, which offers a community nanny scheme, providing flexible childcare for lone parents struggling to access work or training. In Tuesday’s discussion of eligibility I mentioned the great work that Swindon Council is doing to offer weekend sessions from January 2016. In addition, we will set up a flexible funding model to support providers to deliver flexible provision to meet the needs of parents.
Although it is great that some local authorities are already delivering flexible provision to meet parents’ needs, I want more local authorities to deliverthe 30-hour entitlement in that way. I have been clear that the extended entitlement needs to support parents to work. We have been working with the Local Government Association to set up an expert local government working group in the new year, to build on existing flexible provision and make the extended entitlement even more flexible.
Jess Phillips
Is there anything to stop private providers just setting off a block of time within their timetable and saying that the free hours can be claimed in that time? That was certainly my experience of what happened under the 15-hour provision. They could say, “You can use your free hours only between nine and five.”
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady makes a good point—what sort of restrictions can private providers impose on parents taking the free entitlement? We want providers to deliver this more flexibly. Now that the offer is moving to 30 hours from 15 hours the scope for providers to say, “You can take it only at this time,” is significantly limited, because if a child is taking all of the 30 hours, that is most of the week.
The Department for Education will be working with the Local Government Association to enable the sector to take a leading role in expanding existing provision and responding effectively to emerging demand as the extended offer is rolled out. We will also review the statutory guidance to remove any barriers to the flexible delivery of childcare, such as those the hon. Lady mentioned. We will set out work that local authorities can do to enable parents to take the current entitlement in a pattern of hours that best meets their needs.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady raises an important point. First, it is difficult to use legislation to clearly define flexibility. Indeed, doing so in primary legislation is almost a contradiction; it cannot work. Secondly, she points out why our approach is the right one. It allows local authorities to work with providers to deliver the sort of flexibility that works in their local area. The flexibility that her constituents will need will be quite different from that required by parents in a rural area, which is why we cannot define it in primary legislation. However, we want to ensure that the 30 hours is equally accessible by all parents, which brings me on to my next point.
It is clear that the market will need to adapt to support a flexible childcare offer in the extended entitlement, and we will encourage different types of providers to offer the additional hours. The hon. Member for Stockton North mentioned the role of childminders in flexibility, and I agree that they have important part to play. There are currently over 46,000 childminders on the early years register, but not all offer the free entitlement due to local authorities’ payment terms, for example. We want to consider that carefully to see how they can be encouraged to offer the entitlement, because they can contribute to flexible delivery. For example, some parents could use a school nursery and have a childminder either pick their children up or drop them off. A shift-worker at the airport might use a childminder during evening or weekend work alongside some nursery provision.
I have said to the Professional Association for Childcare and Early Years, which represents childminders, that there is a big opportunity for childminders to work with nurseries and schools to deliver a full offer of the 30 hours. In the previous Parliament, we allowed childminders to operate outside their domestic premises for 50% of the time. Childminders can now team up with schools to offer after-school provision. If a child does a morning session, they can be looked after by a childminder on school premises for the afternoon to allow parents to pick them up. That flexibility for childminders will come into force from January 2016 and will open up many new opportunities.
I also recognise that a number of parents already use multiple childcare providers, such as sending their child to a nursery and then getting someone else to pick them up, as I have said. I want to ensure that the system continues to allow parents to make the right decisions for their children and will encourage information sharing between different providers so that there is continuity for the child and that their best interests are taken into account when multiple providers are involved in childcare delivery. On Tuesday, we discussed the Government’s plans to introduce the 30-hour entitlement early in some areas, and flexibility will be a focus. The early implementers will look at ways to encourage different providers to enter the market, including childminders who are not currently offering the free entitlement.
I hope that Committee members are reassured that the Government are absolutely committed to ensuring that parents have access to flexible childcare to fit their working patterns. I would therefore encourage Committee members to support Government amendment 4 and urge the hon. Member for North West Durham to withdraw amendment 15. I emphasise that the Government are committed to delivering flexible childcare for children of all ages, as I said in response to an intervention from the hon. Member for Stockton North. That is why we will consult on parents having the right to request wraparound and holiday care at their child’s school, as the Prime Minister announced on Monday. Providers will also have a right to request use of a school’s facilities when the schools are not using them. That will help local authorities to ensure as far as possible that there is sufficient childcare in the area that responds to parental demand.
Alex Cunningham
What will happen when an agreement cannot be reached with a local school or local authority, or when the private provider is not prepared to be more flexible in its provision? How do we ensure parents’ needs are met if the system in their particular area is not flexible enough?
Mr Gyimah
My hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North made an interesting point on Tuesday: we have significant additional investment in the sector which should be attractive to many new providers. If a provider does not want to offer flexible childcare to all parents in an area, they will struggle to find business somewhere else, because the majority of parents of three and four-year-olds will be entitled to the 30 hours of childcare. Providers that refuse to respond to parental demand may therefore struggle to stay in business.
Alex Cunningham
Government Members have talked about the particular challenges in rural areas, where there might be very little provision. Here we face a situation in which there might be 20 children in a local community who access care; all of a sudden the amount of available care will need to double, and yet there may not be the capacity in that small rural area to do so. How will we cope with that?
Mr Gyimah
As the hon. Gentleman knows, local authorities have a sufficiency duty. I hope that what we will do to encourage providers on the early years register that currently do not offer the free entitlement—such as childminders, who he pointed to—will work. We will also use £50 million of capital investment to target areas where there is a need for more places. Finally, local authorities can fund providers in a way that incentivises flexible provision, so a number of levers can be used to deliver flexible provision for parents.
Pat Glass
I am willing to listen to many of the arguments that the Minister makes, but he has singularly failed to convince me on this one. He gave us lots of examples of local authorities operating flexible systems, but this is not about the best authorities; it is about the worst. The amendment would go some way towards addressing the authorities that need incentivising.
I accept the Minister’s point about the wording of the amendment. It is not possible to require every local authority to provide every kind of flexibility for every child, but education legislation is littered with the word “reasonable”, and to ask local authorities to make reasonably flexible provision is not beyond the wit of the Minister.
I find myself in an unusual situation: I stand here as the person saying there are opportunities here for the market. We need to allow new entrants into the marketplace, and in my view, the best way to do that is to put some control in the hands of parents, who can then choose the best providers for their children. At the moment, we have an incredibly inflexible system that we need to move away from in order to help parents with things such as summer holidays.
Although it does not exactly fall within the scope of the amendment, I welcome what the Minister said about wraparound childcare and getting schools to open their incredibly expensive capital buildings, which often stand empty from 3 o’clock in the afternoon, all weekend and during summer holidays. It is amazing that someone has not done that long before now. Clearly, we will have to see the details, but it is a really good idea to open those buildings up to the marketplace. I understand the Minister’s concern about creating chaos in the market, but providers are making exactly the same arguments to him that providers made to previous Governments about things such as respite care and social care. We were told that putting the control in the hands of parents, disabled people or elderly people would create chaos in the market, and local authorities said the same, but there was not chaos, and it is a better system as a result.
Pat Glass
I am not saying that we should do that, but if we say that local authorities must provide “reasonable flexibility”, that forces those who are not doing anything about that now to start to do something. Unless the Minister tells me that he is prepared to look at that flexibility in regulations, we may need to make an issue of this.
Pat Glass
I suggest that the hon. Gentleman looks at the Education Act 2005, which has “reasonable” in every third sentence. It is not superfluous. It makes the point that this measure is not about giving everyone what they want or what they think they need; it is about giving something that is reasonable to the taxpayer and to the parent or child.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady asked for assurance on what the Government will do in respect of flexibility. As I mentioned earlier, statutory guidance already enables providers to stretch hours across the full year and deliver provision from 7 am to 7 pm. We will work with the Local Government Association and local authorities to revise the statutory guidance to remove any perceived or actual barriers to flexible provision.
Pat Glass
I am not creating criminal penalties. What I am describing is illegal now, yet it continues. All I want to do is to send out a very strong message in whatever way we can. At the moment, we have is a Bill—if I could find any other way of helping the situation, I would. It is illegal at the moment, and I am not seeking to create anything new.
Pat Glass
Thank you, Ms Dorries. I think I have made my intentions perfectly clear.
Parents who have a disabled child do not magically acquire special skills and knowledge. The NHS does not give them special training before they leave hospital with their baby, when they are often in shock and grieving for the child they were expecting but did not get.
We need to ensure, as my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton North said, that childcare providers can access the training that will give them the confidence they need. However that is done, the Government need to put down a huge marker that the current situation cannot continue.
Mr Gyimah
The amendment would ensure that a disabled child is not refused a childcare place on the grounds of their disability. As I highlighted on Tuesday, I absolutely agree that children with special educational needs or a disability should not be put at a disadvantage and that they should have the same access to high-quality childcare as children without disabilities. The Government are committed to ensuring that all families have access to high-quality, flexible and affordable childcare, and I am delighted that the hon. Lady has agreed to meet with me and the Minister for Children and Families to look at how we can improve access to childcare for children with special educational needs and disabilities.
As I pointed out in my intervention, the amendment would create a criminal offence if a disabled child were unreasonably refused a childcare place. Although I agree with the principle behind the amendment, and agree that all children should be able to access childcare, I do not agree that would be the right approach. I have been clear in our debates so far that local authorities are already required by law to secure free entitlement places.
Ruth Cadbury
One of the ways of encouraging childcare providers to be open and welcoming to children with disabilities is to ensure that funding is available for additional support—in large childcare settings, a disabled child might need one-to-one support—as well as for specialist training and, occasionally, specialist equipment. Will funding be available in the programme over and above the normal funding per child for the 30 hours?
Mr Gyimah
We covered the issue of funding on Tuesday, when I made it quite clear that the £5 billion high needs funding block applies to ages nought to 25. Funding will also be available to parents who have access to tax-free childcare up to £4,000. They can access that for children from the ages of nought to 18.
Amendment 13 is about what providers do when confronted with a child with special educational needs or disabilities. It is important that we are clear that the Equality Act 2010 sets out the legal obligations that early years providers and local authorities have towards disabled children and young children in their care. Refusing to admit a disabled child may amount to unlawful discrimination, if that refusal is as a direct result of their disability or something arising in consequence of their disability. The Equality Act applies to all early years settings, whether or not they are in receipt of Government funding.
If a parent of a disabled child believes that their child has been discriminated against by a school setting, they can appeal to the first-tier tribunal or, in certain cases, to local admissions panels. Where the case involves a provider that is not a school, a discrimination claim is heard in the county court.
I take on board the comment made by the hon. Member for North West Durham that she does not intend to create a criminal offence through the amendment. I therefore suggest that when we look at the model agreement that local authorities have with providers delivering the free entitlement, we make the situation quite clear to them and draw their attention to the Equality Act requirement.
The hon. Lady raised a point about the confidence of the workforce to deal with the situation, which is not strictly a legal matter. We intend to look at that as part of the workforce strategy that I committed to on Tuesday. That will build on the requirement that already exists in the early years foundation stage. The significant funding that we give to voluntary and community service organisations can support providers in the workforce to develop confidence and skills.
On that basis, and given that the hon. Lady’s amendment would not really achieve what she wanted to achieve, I urge her to withdraw it.
Pat Glass
I am happy to do that. I have made my point. We are going to talk about this collectively, and we will find a way forward. I just want to point out very clearly that the unreasonable refusal of childcare places for children with disabilities is covered in the Equality Act 2010 and the Disability Discrimination Act 1995, yet it still happens. We would not accept that if the child were black, or for any other kind of child. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendment made: 4, in clause 3, page 3, line 46, leave out subsection (3).—(Mr Gyimah.)
This amendment removes the provision which requires the Secretary of State to make provision, in regulations, to ensure that childcare is made available for parents who have alternative working patterns and during the school holidays.
Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(Margot James.)
Childcare Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting)
Sam Gyimah Excerpts(8 years, 11 months ago)
Public Bill CommitteesRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Mr Sam Gyimah)
I beg to move amendment 5, in clause 5, page 5, line 30, leave out subsection (4) and insert—
“(4) A statutory instrument containing (whether alone or with other provision) regulations mentioned in subsection (5) may not be made unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before and approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament.
(5) The regulations referred to in subsection (4) are—
(a) the first regulations made under section 2;
(b) the first regulations made under section 3(1);
(c) any regulations under section 3(7);
(d) any other regulations that amend or repeal provision made by an Act.
(6) Any other statutory instrument containing regulations is subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.”
This amendment removes the provision which subjects all regulations made under clauses 2 and 3 of the Bill to the affirmative procedure on every occasion they are made. Regulations made under clauses 2 and 3(1) would instead be subject to the affirmative procedure the first time they are made, and the negative procedure thereafter
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship once again, Mr Hanson. As currently drafted, clause 5 provides for all the regulations under clauses 2 and 3 of the Bill to be subject to the affirmative procedure every time the regulation-making power is exercised. That is as a result of an amendment made in the other place, and it provides a level of parliamentary scrutiny beyond the original intention behind the Bill.
We are in complete agreement with the intention behind the amendment made in the other place, and the Government welcome the opportunity for both Houses to have proper prior scrutiny before the regulations can be approved and added to the statute book. However, we do not believe it necessary or reasonable to make the regulations affirmative every time. That is why amendment 5 will allow the regulations to be debated the first time the powers are exercised, while subsequent changes will be subject to the negative resolution procedure.
The exception to that will be any instances where regulations seek to amend or repeal primary legislation, or in the case of regulations seeking to update the maximum level of any financial penalty set out on the face of the Bill. Any regulation made for those reasons will continue to be subject to the affirmative procedure and must be approved by Parliament each time the powers are exercised.
I will set out why we do not believe it necessary for the regulations to be subject to the affirmative procedure each time they are made. First, since we introduced the Bill over the summer, we have provided much more detail about how the Government intend to deliver their manifesto pledge and who will be eligible. That includes a recent policy statement and further details about eligibility as a result of the spending review announcement on 25 November. That additional information provides further clarity about what will be included in the regulations and addresses many of the concerns raised previously.
Secondly, we are committed to undertaking a formal public consultation on the draft regulations in 2016. Feedback from parents and providers will be taken into consideration as we develop the regulations, which will be revised as necessary in response to the consultation before they are laid before Parliament.
Thirdly, our proposal to make the regulations subject to the negative procedure reflects the precedent of parliamentary scrutiny adopted for comparable childcare and education legislation. We believe it is important to maintain the arrangements for approval used for the existing entitlement, which has been subject to the negative procedure since it was introduced in 2008.
The affirmative approval process requires the full involvement of both Houses and for time to be found for debates in both Houses, no matter how small the change. The Government being required to timetable a debate in both Houses when details need to be amended in regulations is likely to have a detrimental impact on the successful delivery of the new entitlement. We want the Secretary of State to be able to respond efficiently and effectively where it may be necessary to support local authorities, providers, parents and their children without seeking and receiving the approval of Parliament to do so.
Once the fundamental principles have been agreed, we do not believe it would be a good use of the parliamentary timetable to make changes that would ordinarily be dealt with under the negative resolution procedure. For example, consequential changes were made to the current entitlement to reflect the introduction of the education, health and social care plans and the replacement of residence orders with child arrangement orders. Those types of changes, which are straightforward and not controversial, can be made under the negative resolution procedure.
If the regulations under the Bill were to be subject to the affirmative resolution procedure, which would be the case without my amendment, the types of consequential changes that I am talking about could not be made unless time was found for a debate in both Houses. We do not believe that that would be an appropriate use of the parliamentary timetable. I hope that I can reassure the Committee further by confirming that the Department will continue to consult on any material changes to the regulations under the negative resolution procedure, as it has done with the current entitlement. By the time they are laid, the regulations will have undergone a vast amount of scrutiny. We are confident that we will deliver a set of regulations that fairly delivers on the Government’s manifesto pledge to support hard-working families.
Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)
Their lordships included this clause because they were concerned about the lack of detail in the Bill in relation to funding, workforce capacity, physical capacity, eligibility, accessibility and other areas. They were concerned that there would not be full and frank debate in relation to all those areas and that the regulations would simply be laid before Parliament—slipped out under the cover of darkness, as I think they said. However, the Minister has given assurances on that on Tuesday and today. He is an honourable man. I do not intend to detain the Committee on this matter. The Minister has given assurances for the first time that the regulations will get full debate in both Houses, and the negative procedure is normal practice in other areas, so I am happy with that.
Amendment 5 agreed to.
Clause 5, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 6 and 7 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 8
Commencement
Amendment made: 6, in clause 8, page 6, line 8, leave out from beginning to “come” in line 10 and insert—
“(1) The following provisions come into force on the day on which this Act is passed—
(a) section 2(4A);
(b) section 7;
(c) this section;
(d) section 9.
(2) The remaining provisions of this Act”.—(Mr Gyimah.)
This is consequential on amendment 3. HMRC’s power to carry out functions in connection with the making of determinations as to a child’s eligibility will come into force on Royal Assent.
Clause 8, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 9
Short title
Mr Gyimah
I beg to move amendment 7, in clause 9, page 6, line 19, leave out subsection (2).
This removes the provision which was inserted to avoid infringing the financial privileges of the Commons. Now that the money resolution has been passed this amendment can be removed.
This will be a very short speech. This technical amendment removes the privilege amendment made in the other place. As the Committee will be aware, this standard formula is incorporated in the Bill before it leaves the other place to avoid infringement of Commons financial privileges. A money resolution has now been passed conferring parliamentary approval of financial expenditure incurred as a result of the Bill, and the removal of the privilege amendment is a mere formality. I therefore hope that the Committee will accept the amendment.
Amendment 7 agreed to.
Clause 9, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
New Clause 2
Early years SEND co-ordinators
“(1) Relevant childcare providers of a size prescribed by Regulations must designate a member of staff at the setting (to be known as the “Early years SEND co-ordinator”) as having responsibility for co-ordinating the provision of childcare for children with special educational needs and/or a disability.
(2) Regulations may require relevant childcare settings to ensure that Early Years SEND co-ordinators have prescribed qualifications or prescribed experience or both.
(3) For the purpose of this section, relevant childcare providers are those funded to deliver early education or childcare provision free of charge under section 7(1) of the Childcare Act 2006 or section 2(1) of this Act.” —(Pat Glass.)
This amendment would require all early years providers of a certain size providing childcare under this Act to designate a member of staff to be the early years SEND co-ordinator, and to ensure that they are suitably experienced and/or qualified.
Brought up, and read the First time.
Mr Gyimah
The new clauses are about special educational needs in the early years setting. The hon. Lady must be congratulated on the ingenious and persistent way in which she has focused our attention throughout the scrutiny of the Bill on children with special educational needs and disabilities. I agree with her that that is the right thing to do as far as the Bill is concerned.
We have heard a lot in this debate about access to the free entitlement for children with special educational needs and disabilities. The hon. Lady’s amendments seek to propose that all childcare providers have access to suitably qualified SEND co-ordinators and to place a requirement on local authorities to produce and maintain a childcare inclusion plan. I agree with her that early identification of additional needs is extremely important. It is central to the SEND reforms, and it includes specific requirements in health to refer children who might have SEND to the local authority, recognising that in the early years, especially before age three, health visitors or GPs can pick up concerns before anyone else.
With that in mind, I reassure Members that we all want childcare that meets the needs of working parents and their children, including those with SEND. It is therefore the Government’s intention to ensure high-quality childcare that meets the needs of all children. We recognise that staff need to have the right skills and knowledge to deliver that care.
The Government continue to support the development of the early years sector with a broader self-improvement education system, to which I alluded during our discussion on an earlier amendment. We invested £5.3 million through our voluntary and community sector grant scheme in 2015-16, of which about £4 million was invested in early years projects to support SEND reform implementation. A number of those programmes deliver SEND training to the early years workforce. In particular, the National Day Nurseries Association’s current SEND champions grant has proved very popular among the workforce.
We have also provided £5 million to support partnerships between teaching schools and PVI providers, which have also enabled good practice in supporting children with SEND. For example, the Solent Teaching School Alliance is delivering support for PVIs that includes a focus on children with SEND. It is leading to improved identification of children and better tracking of their progress towards more aspirational targets.
Obviously, local authorities have a key role to play. As I mentioned, the Children and Families Act 2014 sets out how the needs of children with SEND must be met. As is set out in the code of practice, in order to fulfil their role in identifying and planning for the needs of children with SEND, local authorities should ensure that there is sufficient expertise and experience among local early years providers to support those children.
Local authorities often make use of area SENCOs to provide advice and guidance to early years providers on developing inclusive early learning environments. The area SENCO helps make the links between education, health and social care to facilitate appropriate early provision for children with SEND and their transition to compulsory schooling. A recent SEND reform implementation survey that received responses from 104 local authorities indicated that 78% already have an area SENCO that early years providers can access. We are confident that that number will continue to grow as the reforms are embedded.
I do not believe that the number of area SENCOs needs to be required, as set out in new clause 4. I believe that it would be more appropriate to consider how we can learn from local authorities with area SENCOs and encourage other areas to follow that example, building on the model of the local authorities from which we heard in our recent survey.
As we heard at Tuesday’s session, the early years market is diverse; it is made up mostly of small, single-site private, voluntary and independent institutions. It would be challenging to require every provider to have a suitably qualified member of staff, or a SENCO, as set out in the new clause.
As I have said, we require every provider delivering the early years foundation stage, regardless of their size, to have arrangements in place to support children with special educational needs and disabilities. Under the Children and Families Act, a maintained nursery must ensure that there is a qualified teacher designated as the SENCO in order to ensure the detailed implementation of support for children with SEND. In addition, the EYFS framework requires other early years providers to have arrangements in place for meeting children’s special educational needs. Those in group provision are expected to identify a SENCO. Childminders are encouraged to identify a person to act as SENCO, and childminders who are registered with a childminder agency or who are part of a network may wish to share that role between them.
I recognise that the new clause would allow the Government to set a prescribed size for a childcare provider that must have a SENCO, but I am concerned about the potential perverse incentives that it could create if we placed requirements on different sizes of providers. For example, it could create incentives for a provider not to take more than 49 children if at 50 children the regulations would become more burdensome.
SENCOs are already a valued part of the landscape, but we want to develop and test other innovative ways of meeting the needs of children with SEND, in particular through the early implementer areas, as I have said a number of times. We do not want to prejudge the learning that we will gain from the early implementers, and I hope that the Committee will understand why we do not want to close down other potential options by settling on a single solution now.
New clause 3 seeks to place a requirement on local authorities to produce and maintain a childcare inclusion plan. I recognise that the intention of the hon. Member for North West Durham is to assist disabled children to access a further 15 hours of free childcare under the Bill. As I have stated clearly in Committee, I agree that all families should have access to high-quality, flexible and affordable childcare. I also agree that parents with disabled children should have the same choice and access to high-quality childcare. We want our early years to be inclusive—for children to learn and play together—but I do not agree that the answer is to place a new duty on local authorities to produce and maintain a childcare inclusion plan that sets out a strategy for how disabled children and those with SEN will be assisted to access childcare under the Bill.
The Children and Families Act already requires local authorities to have a local offer, which includes information as to the special educational provision that a local authority expects to be made available to children in its area by relevant childcare providers, and information as to how those providers tailor the childcare on offer to meet the needs of children with SEN. In preparing their local offer, local authorities must consult with the children and young people with SEND and their families to find out what sort of support and services they need. To ensure that the local offer is made available to all, local authorities must publish their offer on the internet and ensure that those families without access to the internet can also see it. The local authority must also tell children and young people and their families how they can find out more about the local offer.
I hope that I have made it clear that I absolutely agree that all eligible children should have access.
Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab)
Speaking as quite a sharp-elbowed mum of children with SEN, I did not know that any of what the Minister read out existed, so it is clearly not working. My children have been through all sorts of different provision. Wanting this is a bit like Miss World wanting world peace. If the Government actually want it, why do we not do something about it?
Mr Gyimah
The Children and Families Act which came into force in 2014 was the biggest reform to SEND for 30 years. It is still being embedded in the system and that is precisely my point: we have made significant reforms, which are being embedded. I hope that what I am saying reassures Members. Rather than having another duty on SEND provision for local authorities, let us ensure that the reforms already passed on a cross-party basis become embedded and truly work for children, so that the parents, whether sharp-elbowed or not, may feel reassured that their children will get access to the childcare they need. I therefore hope that the shadow Minister will withdraw her new clauses.
Pat Glass
My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley is right. We have all recognised here that there is a problem. We are not going to change things unless we do something to change them. At the moment, the system simply is not working for parents. The Minister and I agree that the role of SENCOs is crucial. The SENCO in the school and the area SENCO have crucial roles. They are almost the translator between the child and their difficulties and the rest of the provision. They work in relation to access and admission, to the training of staff and getting access to trained staff, to inclusive practices and, more importantly, to provisions to the curriculum in schools and in childcare. The SENCO is the translator of the curriculum for those children who have difficulties.
Pat Glass
The Minister misunderstands what I am saying. I am saying that the system is not working for disabled children if they are not getting access. I am not criticising the role of SENCOs or area SENCOs. The confidence I have is because I have seen that the role is crucial and huge, not only in translating the curriculum and so on, but in supporting parents. SENCOs have a strong role in supporting parents.
The Minister said that 78% of local authorities have a plan. That means that 22%—that is more than a fifth—do not. I worry about the children living in those local authorities that do not have a plan. I take on board his point on perverse incentives. I would hate to see a situation in which childcare providers, particularly those that are good or outstanding, suddenly decided not to take more children because of a cut-off point. I understand that concern, but I am not sure that that is sufficient reason not to have a requirement in the Bill to ensure that there is at least someone who is suitably trained in a provision or someone who knows where to go to get help.
I have been at it quite a long time, and I remember taking over SEN in an authority where SEN was failing badly. I had absolutely no experience in that. I had worked in school improvement and other areas of education, and I was suddenly asked to take over SEN. SEN has always been and remains something of a secret garden in local authorities. It is the province of all those professionals, such as educational psychologists and clinical psychologists, and is not for people like me.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady is making an eloquent case, as she has done throughout our scrutiny of the Bill and this issue. While we both agree on the problem we are trying to solve, if she thinks that an Act that came into force a year ago is not sufficient, why would another Act address the problem?
Pat Glass
If I can finish the point I was making, I took over SEN. I feel ashamed that I sat in meetings at that time—it was quite a long time ago—and said to parents things like, “Do you know what? Your child will be better in this special school”, when they were fighting to have their child in mainstream education. I went along to a conference somewhere—I cannot remember what conference it was—and there was a disability discrimination officer who had severe cerebral palsy. He got up on the stage, and it was almost a road to Damascus moment. He said something like, “People like you made me special by making me different”, and I can remember thinking, “Oh my God.”
I set off from there to find out about inclusion. We were right at the beginning of things. If a child fell off a step, they were placed in a special school. It was that bad in those days. No one was being included. I learned an awful lot of things along the way, such as that pushing children through the door and having them there is not the same as having them included. There is a great difference between having them there and having them welcomed and wanted. That is what inclusivity is. The point that, in a very long-winded way, I am trying to make to the Minister is that we have to start somewhere, and forcing something is the first step towards making the system much more inclusive.
Mr Gyimah
Once again, the hon. Lady makes a very strong point. Is she aware that, in addition to the requirement to publish a local offer for children with SEND, in the case of a provider that “requires improvement” or is “inadequate” the local authority must provide information and advice training specifically on meeting the needs of children with SEND? Given that that measure is in place, should we not make sure it works rather than putting more stuff into legislation?
Pat Glass
I take the Minister’s point, and I appreciate that his colleague introduced major reforms in this area a year ago. We want them to work, because they are long overdue. We want to move away from a system in which statements took forever to one in which there is much more co-ordination between health, education and social care. We want that to happen. I worry about the cuts to local authorities’ budgets, because they must be able to deliver this. I am aware of the local offer, but in too many local authorities it is not a proper offer to parents, but a list of what is available if they bother to ring around, so we are some way from what the Government want to realise.
Mr Gyimah
I would just like to draw the hon. Lady’s attention to the section in the EYFS that states:
“Each child must be assigned a key person…The key person must seek to engage and support parents and/or carers in guiding their child’s development at home. They should also help families engage with more specialist support if appropriate.”
Once again, does the hon. Lady think that what she is proposing will lead only to more law? There is enough law already to make what she wants happen.
Pat Glass
I am aware of that, but if the key person measures were working, children with disabilities would not be being refused admission to childcare providers. We know that the SENCO role works incredibly well, and I just want to build on what works. I understand that we need to embed the things that are in the SEN legislation. We want them to work. I am happy not to press the new clauses if the Minister agrees to monitor this area and revisit it if it does not improve.
Mr Gyimah
By way of reply to the hon. Lady’s concluding remarks, I assure her and the Committee that this will be a priority in the early implementers. We will also put in place an evaluation system to ensure we are learning the right lessons, not only from that but afterwards, to improve the system. I think the hon. Lady agrees that this is a practical, rather than a legal, problem. We have got to work with local authorities to ensure this works for parents, and I assure her that that is our priority.
Pat Glass
The Minister is absolutely right. The amendments that I tabled about disabled children do not require a legal response; they require funding to be put in to ensure that this is monitored and policed. Something must be done to make the changes that will have to happen, because the current situation is unacceptable. On that basis, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.
Clause, by leave, withdrawn.
Question proposed, That the Chair do report the Bill, as amended, to the House.
Mr Gyimah
Thank you for your expert and expeditious chairmanship of our proceedings, Mr Hanson. I thank the officials, who are seen but not heard, and who have worked incredibly hard since the start of this Parliament to turn our manifesto pledge into a Bill and into reality for working parents. I thank my colleagues, who have been very supportive, and the Opposition for ensuring that we focused not on the party-political knockabout but on what we can do to help children and families.
A lot of points have been made. As the hon. Member for North West Durham said, not all of them require a legal response, but a lot of them require a practical response. I thank hon. Members for raising those issues, and I look forward to working with them over the next weeks and months to make this Bill work for parents.
Pat Glass
I, too, thank both Chairmen for their excellent chairmanship. I thank the Clerks and officials for supporting us. They supported me, in particular—I struggled a little, because this is my first Bill Committee. I thank my colleagues on both sides of the Committee. There was very little to disagree with in this Bill. It is a good Bill and we want to make it work for parents. I think I have made my point about disabled children.
Childcare Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting)
Sam Gyimah Excerpts(8 years, 11 months ago)
Public Bill CommitteesRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Mr Sam Gyimah)
There are only 1.4 million three and four year-olds in the country—therefore there cannot be 1.4 million parents. The hon. Lady should check her figures, because they are incredibly wrong.
Pat Glass
I am sorry, I just do not accept that. Nobody is going to see any of this—apart from the early implementers, and there will be very small numbers of those—until 2017. The Government have plenty of time to get this right, and if they do not, we risk ending up with either less provision or poor provision. It is really important that we take our time up to 2017 to make sure that we get this right for families.
At the heart of our concerns, and those of their Lordships, is a serious funding gap. The Chancellor’s recent announcements only go some way to answering those. The other place voted to amend the Bill on three separate occasions, mainly on procedural grounds because the Bill lacked substance and clarity about funding. It has been dogged by lack of detailed information and costings. The Minister really needs to respond to those concerns and answer those questions over the next couple of days.
Mr Gyimah
I thank the hon. Lady for coming to the substance of the debate in front of us. Their Lordships inserted the amendment before the spending review when the Chancellor made clear the eligibility criteria and the funding to go alongside it. If the hon. Lady still disagrees with the £1 billion of extra funding that has been made available for the entitlement, will she make clear, therefore, how much she thinks should go into the sector to fund this entitlement and what her calculations are based on?
Pat Glass
Now I am even more confused because I want to know where the £1 billion is that the Minister is talking about. My understanding is that the figure is £650 million, but I can come on to that in some detail because I think the Government are all over the place on costs. The Minister is going to show us how he will do the basic maths on this. I have an MSc in maths and, quite frankly, I am confused about this. I always think I am reasonably good at this sort of stuff, but I am absolutely confused.
Mr Gyimah
I will be very happy to clarify all those numbers when I come to my response. On the subject of the IPPR report, which I know has been quoted a number of times by Opposition Members, I have a lot of respect for the IPPR. In fact, some of our best officials from the Department for Education work at the IPPR. I should draw the Committee’s attention to the fact that this report was published in October 2015, which is about a month before the spending review in which we set out who is eligible. Without knowing who is eligible, it is not possible to know what the programme is going to cost. This report, fortunately, is very much of its time.
Pat Glass
The Minister needs to explain to us the costs and the eligibility. All those issues need to be clarified in his response. He will have to spend some time explaining to us why, before May 2015, he himself told us that 25 hours of free childcare would cost £1.2 billion, and yet in November 2015 we were told that 30 hours of free childcare would cost £640 million. The IPPR has identified a huge funding gap, and the Minister will have to explain how reducing the thresholds will fill that gap of almost £800 million. I very much welcome the extra money that the Chancellor announced in the comprehensive spending review, but the Minister will have to clarify where and how the funding will be allocated.
The danger is that the Government’s failure to adequately fund the free offer could have far-reaching implications for the childcare market. Analysis by the House of Commons Library shows that there are more than 44,000 fewer childcare places today than there were in 2009. In addition, six in 10 local authorities tell us that they do not have an adequate supply of childcare for local parents now. There is a downwards trend in childcare places, which causes us concern. We do not want to see this well-meaning and potentially excellent policy actually leading to a further reduction in choice for parents.
The Minister suggested that this is about quantity as much as quality for parents. However, parents are concerned about the quality of childcare, and the concern is that this could be damaged by the Government’s failure to adequately support their proposals with funding. There is a wealth of evidence from the Select Committee on Education and from Ofsted that clearly identifies the strong links between outstanding provision and the best qualified—and, therefore, usually the best-paid—staff. Poor childcare is worse than no childcare, and can be detrimental to a child’s development. I am very concerned that, unless the Minister can provide answers on funding, the result will be a diminution of quality provision. Insufficient funds and poor delivery could have the opposite effect to that which the Government want, and will lead to fewer places, poorer quality and higher costs for parents. That is not something that will definitely happen, but it is a serious risk. We want to ensure that risk is taken out of the policy, in so far as we can. The Government have ample time, as I said to the hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton, to address these concerns before their policy is introduced in autumn 2017.
We want to interrogate some of the more glaring gaps in this Committee. Their Lordships agreed the amendment requiring the Government to carry out a review of the sustainability of the Bill—a sunrise clause, I think it is called. I understand that they did so for two reasons: because they were very worried about the very large funding gap, and because there is absolutely no detail at all in the Bill. Everything is going to be in regulations. There is no detail about how the 30 hours of free childcare will be paid for without reducing quality or increasing ratios, or about how the additional 15 hours will be delivered. Will it be early-years learning, will be it part of the early-years framework, or will it be childcare? Will it be delivered differently in different places? Is the first 15 hours to be early-years education and the second 15 hours to be pure childcare—someone of indeterminate qualifications and experience watching over children and ensuring they are kept safe?
The Chair
This debate is on amendment 10 and on whether clause 1 should stand part of the Bill, which gives a wider scope to the Opposition spokesperson, but it would be helpful if Members did not go too wide.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady quoted the PSLA’s comments on the childcare review. I believe that its comments were informed by a piece of research done by Ceeda. According to that research, the cost of childcare for three and four-year-olds is £4.53 per hour. The average funding rate announced by the Government, from 2017-18, will be £4.88 per hour. Where is the shortfall?
Jess Phillips
I invite the Minister to go back to the evidence that was given to this Committee. That same evidence states that the consultation undertaken by the DFE to come to the figures that he has outlined will be completely outdated by the time of the 2017 roll-out and does not account for all sorts of other costs that nurseries may face.
Jess Phillips
Yes, but give me a chance to answer one intervention before you make another!
Jess Phillips
The shortfall has been identified by the Pre-school Learning Alliance in its research. I can only work on the evidence that has been given to the Committee. There is already a clear shortfall with the 15-hour provision, which is why nurseries tell us time and again that they use other people’s fees to subsidise their rates. The cost of childcare has increased over the past five years.
Jess Phillips
I agree that we need to take a wholesale look at apprenticeships, training and how to encourage people to go into this area of work. I imagine that helping to raise people’s children is one of the greatest gifts, and we need as many people as possible to go into the sector. Unfortunately, if pay rates remain where they are—care work is one of the reasons for the gender pay gap—and unless nurseries massively increase their costs and training budgets, people’s desire to work in the field will not increase.
Mr Gyimah
I would like to give the hon. Lady some encouragement on some of the questions she asked. The number of providers delivering the three and four-year-old entitlement has increased every year since 2011. In 2015, a total of 43,800 providers did so.
The hon. Lady raised a concern about the workforce. The quality of the workforce continues to rise. Between 2008 and 2013, the proportion of full day care staff with at least a level 3 qualification rose from 75% to 87%, and the proportion with a degree or higher rose from 5% to 13%. I hope she finds that encouraging. The number of places is increasing, and staff qualifications are going up.
Jess Phillips
The idea that the number of places are increasing is interesting. I am sure that some nursery providers that did not previously exist have opened their doors, but I think that some that previously did not offer the Government’s scheme are now doing so. Many nurseries in my area that have always existed suddenly have a big banner outside saying, “Free three and four-year old places here”. There is still a supply and demand issue. In his next intervention on me, will the Minister say what happened in 2013? Why did the number go up before then and then stop in 2013, or do we just not have the figures?
Mr Gyimah
I am encouraged by what the hon. Lady says about nurseries advertising the free entitlement, which she said is so underfunded, and having banners outside trying to attract parents. If it is so underfunded and nurseries are losing money by offering it, why are they so keen to advertise it?
Jess Phillips
Perhaps they did not realise and thought the subsidies were bigger. As I said, I would be delighted if the Minister proved me wrong. However, I can almost guarantee that for the next five years after the roll-out, we will see a higher-than-inflation increase in the cost of childcare for parents of children aged nought to three. I really hope I am wrong, but something will have to give. I do not run a nursery, so I do not know—I am basing my comments on the evidence that has been given to me that there will be a massive shortfall. Maybe I will start a nursery—I like to take on new tasks.
As a parent, I know about the effect of growing demand. This year I was one of the many hundreds of thousands of parents who were told that they could no longer access childcare. There may be an increasing number of places and delight about the figures, the graphs and reports that we read, but the reality is different. I was told I could no longer access the childcare I have accessed for my children for years, because demand outstripped supply. That is happening to people every day, regardless of what the figures say. Supply is not growing to meet demand. I currently have no childcare before school for my children, which has fundamentally changed my family’s working habits. It has meant a reduction in the income of my husband, who is the full-time carer of my children. No chart or table will tell me that is not happening when I know it is—it is happening to me and to many other parents I speak to on the school run.
I want to be sure about the graphs, the funding and schemes that are being outlined. All I am asking for is a review of whether the funding will work. As I have said repeatedly, I want the Minster to prove me wrong. I want a review of whether there has been any rise in the costs of wrap-around childcare for children aged nought to three and those over four, like my children, and of how many women fall out of the labour market when their children are aged nought to three. I want to understand whether the Government have got their figures right.
Christian Matheson
I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. I also thank the Minister for, and congratulate him on, the extension to 30 hours, which will be welcomed by parents up and down the country, as long as it works. I do not wish to be churlish and I hope that my comments will be taken in the spirit with which I offer them.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Gentleman is right to point out that both main parties promised to increase the free entitlement for three and four-year-olds at the election, with the Labour party saying 25 hours and the Conservatives saying 30. However, we were the only party to commit to two things: a review of the cost of providing childcare; and an increase in the hourly rate. I did not see a reference to any review or increase in rates in the Labour party’s manifesto. We did not just make a promise; we are delivering. What is the basis for the hon. Gentleman’s claim that our pledge cannot be delivered, but Labour’s could have been?
Christian Matheson
I remind the Minister that the Labour party’s proposals—I appreciate that we are not discussing them, and I know your keenness that we stick to the Bill, Ms Dorries—were fully costed. My suspicion is that the Government’s proposals were not costed at the time, but I do not want to provoke your ire, Ms Dorries, so I will not make the same mistake as other colleagues—
Christian Matheson
I am very close to the end of my speech but, of course, I give way to the Minister.
Mr Gyimah
I want to draw the Committee’s attention to a point made by the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley about the cost of childcare and low funding rates. Central Government give Birmingham £5.49 and it pays £3.83 to providers. If there is a challenge around childcare in that area, it is not because the Government are under-funding childcare, but because of what the local authority is top-slicing. Of course it has to top-slice, but I would like to know why there is such a gap for Birmingham.
Christian Matheson
The hon. Gentleman makes a good point, but a Minister talking about funding for local authorities as a whole will be skating on thin ice, because such funding is not a good story for the Government.
The Minister may want me to write to him with more details about the case I cited, but childcare providers’ concerns need to be addressed. The review under the clause would give the Government breathing space to ensure that the numbers add up and could reassure providers who are working hard to offer a quality service to parents in my constituency and others.
Mr Gyimah
I have a lot to say, Ms Dorries, and I am grateful for the opportunity to serve under your chairmanship. We have had a long debate on amendment 10. I would like to do three things: provide a bit of context; deal with the amendment and the clause; and address several of the points raised by Opposition Members.
First, on the context, both the Labour and Conservative parties promised to increase free entitlement for three and four-year-olds because we recognise that that will make a difference to parents by helping with the cost of living and enabling them to work more hours. We also know that high-quality childcare makes a big difference to children’s life chances. Both parties share the same objective, and I note that Labour Members supported the Bill on Second Reading.
Both parties can also lay claim to a tradition of making big moves in the childcare sector. The hon. Member for North West Durham talked about the Labour party’s track record. I am proud to say that the Conservative-led Government in the previous Parliament continued that when the free entitlement for three and four-year-olds went up from 12.5 hours to 15 hours. We introduced a new entitlement of 15 hours of early education for disadvantaged two-year-olds. We also introduced the early years pupil premium, which is worth £50 million, so that disadvantaged three and four-year-olds do not fall behind at school. We introduced shared parental leave, which is to be extended to grandparents, and we legislated for tax-free childcare, which means that for every £100 that parents spend on childcare, £20 will come from the taxpayer. That is for parents who are buying additional hours to the existing free entitlement, or who have children younger than three. Parents can use tax-free childcare for children up to the age of 12, and up to 18 in the case of disabled children.
Jess Phillips
I just want to check—partly for my own personal finances—when that tax-free childcare will be available. The Minister says that that has been put in place, but I understand that it is currently not available.
Mr Gyimah
I said that we legislated for that in the previous Parliament. Tax-free childcare will come into effect from 2017. I know the hon. Lady is concerned about the cost of school-based, wrap-around childcare, but she can use tax-free childcare to help to offset the cost of her wrap-around childcare. In addition, parents can get subsidies through childcare tax credits for up to 75% of the cost of childcare, and that figure will be 85% when we move to universal credit. The Bill is part of a package of reforms through which the Government will spend £6 billion in this Parliament to support parents with their childcare.
Pat Glass
While we welcome the moves within universal credit to increase subsidies for childcare from 75% to 85% of the costs, does the Minister accept that there will be a lag? Universal credit will come into being six months after this childcare policy is implemented, so there will be a lag of six months between the two.
Mr Gyimah
Parents can get 75% of their costs paid for today, and that will rise to 85% when universal credit comes into force. That goes to the crux of the measure: no parent will be worse off as a result of the Bill, and no parent will get anything taken away from them as a result of the Bill. This is a new entitlement.
Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab)
The Minister says that “no parent” will be worse off, but I understand there are differences in the funding arrangements. Nationally, the new funding rate for the three and four-year-old offer is £4.88, including the early years pupil premium funding. All regions except London will see an increase in the hourly rate, but London will lose 65p of funding per child per hour for the extension of the entitlement, with some boroughs losing as much as £4.29 per place. How will that play out for the parents of three and four-year-olds in London?
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady talks about the money paid to local authorities. I was making the point that no parent will be worse off in terms of the childcare that they get.
I will come to this in more detail later, but we have announced that we will consult on an early years national funding formula to ensure that we smooth out the allocations for local authorities. It is not fair that one local authority can get £9 an hour and afford to offer 20 hours’ childcare, while another local authority, such as in Birmingham, gets £5 an hour. We need to ensure that a local authority gets the funding that reflects the needs of the children in that local authority, rather than the amount being based on history, as is currently the case. I will come to that point in more detail later.
Alex Cunningham
What the Minister said was quite helpful. In Mid Dorset and North Poole, a week’s childcare costs £94, whereas in the Minister’s constituency of East Surrey, that costs nearly £180. If local authorities are not properly funded to take local circumstances into account, how on earth can they provide the cover that he wants?
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Gentleman raises precisely the point I am making: we want to fund local authorities fairly to take account of local circumstances. The current funding formula is based on historical fiat and historical local spend; it does not reflect local need. In addition to increasing the hourly rate, we want to consult on a national funding formula to ensure that local authorities get funds that reflect their needs.
Alex Cunningham
In Surrey, the cost of childcare has gone up by 36% in the past five years. It will cost £9,000 for a family with one child to access childcare in Surrey. Is the Minister saying that he will ensure that the county council for the constituency he represents as a Member of Parliament will have sufficient money to fund that level of childcare in the future?
Mr Gyimah
Let me put the hon. Gentleman’s mind at rest—I am glad he is taking so much interest in my area, rather than his. As a result of the combination of policies that I have talked about, a parent could get up to £40,000 of subsidy towards their childcare for two children. That is how far the Government are going to subsidise parents with the cost of childcare.
We are discussing amendment 10 and clause 1. I understand the arguments made by some members of the Committee about funding for disabled children and children with SEN to support them in accessing the free entitlement, but let me be clear that I do not believe that clause 1, on the funding review, should remain in the Bill.
Before I address the key points, I want to thank hon. Members for their contributions. I particularly thank the hon. Member for North West Durham for her extensive work on improving access to childcare for disabled children. That is clearly an area of her expertise and I thank her for her contribution to the debate. I also want to put on record that, beyond our line-by-line scrutiny in Committee, I want to work with her and officials on how we can improve access to childcare for disabled children, so I invite her to the Department to discuss that.
I want to be very clear that the Government believe that parents with disabled children should have the same opportunities as other parents via increased choice of and access to high-quality childcare. The Government’s commitment to improving the system for children with SEN and disabilities was strongly demonstrated in the previous Parliament, during which we legislated through the Children and Families Act 2014 to introduce the biggest reform to the SEN and disability system for 30 years. The reforms, which introduced a nought-to-25 system, with an emphasis on early identification and the importance of integration between education, health and social care for children across the age range, were supported on both sides of the House.
Ruth Cadbury
The Minister listed three factors in the review of disabled children’s education, but he did not use the word “childcare”. The parents of disabled children want to be able to work as well as to have good care, education and social services support, so will childcare be part of the review that he has just mentioned?
Mr Gyimah
I am coming to precisely that point. The changes will not solve all issues in the system overnight, but they are at the early stages of implementation and are starting to make a real difference for families. As I pointed out in relation to funding for parents of disabled children, tax-free childcare for families with disabled children will provide support of up to £40,000 until the child turns 18. So, from nought to 18, a parent with a disabled child will get twice the allowance that a parent with a non-disabled child will get through tax-free childcare.
I recognise that the extensive work carried out by the parliamentary inquiry into childcare for disabled children, co-chaired by the hon. Member for North West Durham, found that some parents have difficulties accessing childcare. That is disappointing. I am clear that the entitlement to 15 hours’ early education is for all children. It is not acceptable for children with disabilities to be unable to access their entitlement.
Alex Cunningham
As the Minister knows, 40% of families with disabled children are not accessing care, which is 10 times more than in the wider population. I accept that there is sufficient money, but how do we ensure that there is the expertise needed in all our nurseries to provide the expert care that meets the specific needs of disabled children?
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. The truth is that disabled children have very different needs. There are a range of needs, which is why I would like to work with the hon. Member for North West Durham.
I will develop my argument further on how we can make sure we have the right expertise in the right setting. For some disabled children there needs to be an overlap between early education and nursing care, and in some situations there also needs to be a speech and language therapist, or a music therapist, on hand. There is no one-size-fits-all approach to childcare for disabled children. We need to work out the right way to do this, and if the hon. Gentleman will bear with me, I will make some suggestions during my speech.
Local authorities are required by law to secure free entitlement places for parents who want their children to take them up. There is a clear legal position enabling all three and four-year-olds to receive 15 hours of early education, and it is clear in the Bill that all such children are eligible to receive an additional 15 hours. Local authorities are also under a duty in the Childcare Act 2006 to ensure that there is sufficient childcare in their area. The requirement is for all children, and it is not acceptable if there are no places for children who have additional needs.
Jess Phillips
I recognise what the Minister says, but if a report does state otherwise, will he change his mind?
Mr Gyimah
No, I would definitely like to see the report. Of the £1 billion, £300 million is for a significant uplift to the rate paid for two, three and four-year-old entitlements. We have increased the rate not just for the three and four-year-old entitlement, as promised at the election, but for the two-year-old entitlement. The new average hourly rate—we have to be clear about it—is £4.88 for three and four-year-olds and £5.39 for two-year-olds, and the equivalent rate per carer, for three and four-year-olds, is £39. The uplift will apply to all children accessing the free entitlement.
We did not stop there, however. We also announced £50 million of capital funding to help providers who wish to expand and increase the number of places they are able to offer, as well as committing to a fairer funding distribution through the introduction of a national funding formula for early years. Neither of those elements, which are critical to a comprehensive and sustainable system, is mentioned in the clause.
Introducing a fairer funding formula for early years is essential. Current funding for early years varies considerably around the country, enabling some areas to offer parents additional hours of provision above the statutory 15 hours a week. The additional investment is a strong signal of the importance that the Government place on early years, and of our desire to help hard-working parents back to work and help them with the cost of living.
The rate increase is underpinned by the comprehensive review of the cost of childcare that was published on 25 November. The review was based on the best published evidence available, with additional evidence being collected through the review itself. Some 2,000 pieces of evidence from the childcare sector were reviewed, and every major childcare organisation contributed to the review. Childcare providers generously even provided their own profit and loss accounts so that we could identify and understand how their cost base worked. We promised the view at the election, and we have delivered on that promise. It is the most comprehensive bottom-up analysis of the cost of childcare provision in the country, and I have no doubt that hon. Members will agree with the rigorous, evidence-based approach we have taken to the analysis.
On how the review was conducted, it was led by the Department for Education’s chief analyst, who analysed the best published evidence and went the extra mile by collecting additional evidence throughout the review. The review examined the cost of childcare provision at provider level and considered all evidence on the current demand for and supply of childcare places for two, three and four-year-olds, for whom there is free entitlement. It also considered cost pressures that providers will need to meet in future, including the national living wage, and found that there is scope for providers to be more efficient, for example by reducing under-occupancy.
That analysis has allowed us to understand the funding needs of the sector and gain better insight into the characteristics of a diverse market and how it might respond to deliver the entitlement.
Ruth Cadbury
I thank the Minister for describing the review. He mentions under-occupancy. Has he had the chance to analyse how childcare providers can deal with occupancy figures and capacity, given that many parents work uneven hours, shift work and so on, and other parents are on flexible contracts? How does the Minister expect childcare providers to operate at high occupancy rates when so many parents work different hours in different weeks?
Mr Gyimah
There is significant scope for looking at under-occupancy, and we want to work with the sector. Most nursery providers say that they are very busy on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, and less so on Mondays and Fridays. Some nurseries price their offer in such a way as to encourage parents to take up the quiet times, when there are still staff costs but no parents taking up the offer. There are ways to make that possible.
Ruth Cadbury
It is generous of the Minister to consider the needs of childcare providers, but how does that work given that it is the employers of those parents who determine the hours for which they need the childcare offer?
Mr Gyimah
If a childcare provider wants to say to parents, “This is how we price; it is a market,” parents can pick and choose the spots that work best for them. We are saying that there is more scope to look at under-occupancy. It may work for some providers and not for others. We will work with the sector on that.
As I said, the review had extensive input from the whole sector. I will name some of the key organisations that provided input: the National Day Nurseries Association, the Professional Association for Childcare and Early Years, the Family and Childcare Trust and Contact a Family, as well as providers that attended round-tables that we held in the summer. The review does not just reflect costs in the south-east and London, because those round-tables were held around the country. I would like to take the opportunity to thank everyone who contributed to such a significant achievement, with the review being the first of its kind.
We are debating the impact of the provisions on children with additional needs, and the review also considered the impact on the cost of provision for children with special educational needs and disabilities. We held thematic discussions on childcare for children with additional needs, including special educational needs and disabilities. The review found that the nature and level of support required by those children can vary significantly, as does the prevalence of additional needs across each setting. The cost estimates reported in the review made allowances for some of those factors.
Our analysis of the responses to the call for evidence also highlighted that providing for children with additional needs, special educational needs and disabilities drives up costs for providers, particularly salaries. That is because children may need more one-to-one support, and there may be a need for greater involvement of other services—for example, health services or therapists—to support the provider in caring for the child. I saw that for myself when I visited Bath Opportunity pre-school, a specialist nursery providing childcare for children aged nought to five with a range of additional needs. The pre-school delivered excellent care for the children, but it was clear that the cost of delivering that care depended on children’s level of need. To deliver that care, the provider needs to work closely with a range of agencies, supported by the local authority to access funding from the high needs block, which is for ages nought to 25.
Alex Cunningham
The Minister heard me raise earlier the issue mentioned by Contact a Family, about the early years single funding formula. Is he saying that the higher-level funding will compensate and provide sufficient funding for people with a disabled child, who are finding the costs extremely high?
Mr Gyimah
First, I have outlined how parents could get tax-free childcare. Secondly, we confirmed in the spending review that there will be protection for high-needs funding, which will ensure that it rises in proportion to the number of children, including those under five. For parents with disabled children, there will be a number of funding sources to help them buy childcare provision based on their needs.
Alex Cunningham
Is the Minister reassuring the Committee that a person with a disabled child will not be disadvantaged financially in any way whatever, in comparison with a person with a child who does not have a disability, when they come to buy childcare?
Mr Gyimah
By having tax-free childcare and the high needs block, and also by having increased the hourly rate, we will ensure that local authorities continue to have the flexibility to target funding where it is most needed to help children with disabilities and their families, including the youngest children.
Pat Glass
I hear what the Minister is saying about the high needs block of grant funding, but will he not accept that local authorities such as mine have lost 40% of their funding? They argue that the funding that goes into the high needs block is insufficient in itself to fund education for children who have statements or education and social care plans—the statutory bit. They will therefore not be able to find money to fund the non-statutory bit, which is childcare, even if they want to, which they do.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady pre-empts my next point. When it comes to funding for children with additional needs, we know that one size does not fit all. That is why I have committed to considering early years funding for children with special educational needs and disabilities as part of our wider consultation on allocation and a fairer funding system in 2016—specifically to look at the issue that the hon. Lady points out.
However, we also know, going back to a previous point, that access is not just about funding. We have heard throughout this debate that although funding is important, it is not the only issue. I am sure that in a later debate we will talk about how the workforce support children with additional needs, but the way in which local authorities and providers work together to ensure that all children access their entitlement goes beyond funding into how services work together and how the workforce are supported. I therefore want very clearly to commit that as part of our early implementation of 30 hours from September 2016, we will seek to encourage innovative approaches to providing flexible childcare for working parents whose children are disabled or have special educational needs. I am sure that the hon. Lady will have a view on that when we sit down to discuss how we can make that happen.
I would now like to talk more widely about clause 1 and why I do not believe it should stand part of the Bill.
Alex Cunningham
I am grateful to the Minister for taking another intervention. He said about 10 minutes ago that he would address the issue of staffing to ensure that there is the necessary level of expertise in nurseries so that they can offer appropriate support for children with disabilities. I do not know whether he intends to address that later in his speech, but it appears that he is moving on, so I would appreciate it if he addressed it now.
Mr Gyimah
I believe that there is an amendment specifically on the workforce. When we debate that, we can debate all the staffing issues together. I want to focus on amendment 10 and clause 1.
Clause 1 was introduced in the other place in response to concerns about a lack of detail about how the Government would fund their commitment to provide 30 hours of free childcare for three and four-year-olds. Critically, it was also about the opportunity to scrutinise how that would be done. Before the Bill was introduced, we committed to increasing the rate paid to providers that was announced by the Prime Minister in March, and to a comprehensive review of the cost of childcare.
Alex Cunningham
No one wants to delay the implementation of this fantastic policy, but the review, and the consideration of the issues that were raised in the other place, could happen in parallel without inhibiting that implementation. They would inform it considerably and perhaps make it possible to get the right numbers, which we need to understand the cost and the number of placements available. Surely the Minister accepts that something could be done in parallel, and that he does not have anything to fear from that.
Mr Gyimah
I do not see the case for a further independent review after a review has been held. The autumn statement set the Government’s budget and spending plans for the entirety of the Parliament. We have a very generous settlement: we will be spending £2.9 billion in 2018-19, having spent £2.8 billion in the last Parliament. That is a significant increase.
Finally, Members have asked questions about the detail in the Bill. The hon. Member for North West Durham is a veteran of childcare debates in this House, and I say to her that regulations are the right place for much of the detail. The full eligibility criteria, and the details about the childcare providers that local authorities are required to fund for the current entitlement, will all sit in regulations. The previous Labour Government made the same choice. We set out our intentions in a series of policy statements, and the regulations will be subject to the highest degree of parliamentary scrutiny.
Pat Glass
I accept that on previous occasions much of the detail on childcare has been in regulations. The difference is that there has previously been some detail in the Bill. The concerns raised in the other place and by the Opposition today are about the singular lack of detail in the Bill. That is why we are concerned about so much being pushed into regulations.
Mr Gyimah
As I said, the regulations will be subject to parliamentary scrutiny. I hope that hon. Members will agree that the proposals in clause 1 have been fully met through the completion of a robust and evidence-based review and a substantial financial settlement. It is important that we consider one of the key reasons why the clause was inserted in the other place—namely, concern that the Bill would not be scrutinised by Parliament in the light of spending decisions. I understand that concern, but we are now scrutinising the Bill line by line, with further stages of debate ahead. It may not have been the intention of the other place to delay the implementation of additional free childcare by inserting the clause, but I am clear that setting up an independent review would risk delay. I therefore believe that clause 1 should not stand part of the Bill, and I hope that the hon. Member for North West Durham will feel reassured enough to withdraw amendment 10.
Pat Glass
I started this morning by saying that we support the Bill. We want to see it have a fair wind, but we have a number of concerns about the lack of detail in it. It is particularly lacking in detail about funding. I am somewhat reassured that we now appear to have £1 billion, but that leaves us still almost £0.6 billion short of the figure mentioned in the independent review, so there is still a major funding gap. We want to help the Government persuade their lordships that the Bill is sustainable and deliverable.
The Minister is not being fair when he refuses to accept that there is an existing cross-subsidy in the system, and that the current 15-hour offer is underfunded and is subsidised by parents who are taking more than 15 hours. We have real concerns that if the number is increased to 30 hours, it will remove the opportunity for that cross-subsidisation and push the cost down in the system, so that there will be a sharp increase in the cost of childcare for babies, one year-olds and two year-olds. It will produce an ongoing squeeze on costs elsewhere, and our real concern is that as a result, quality will suffer.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady has repeated the claim about £1.6 billion that she made on Second Reading. That figure predates the funding uplift and ignores the eligibility criteria that we have introduced and the savings we get through working tax credit and tax-free childcare. I ask the hon. Lady to withdraw that comment, given that it ignores all those facts, which we have known about since the spending review.
Pat Glass
I am sorry, but from what the Minister has said today he has not convinced me that we have the funding we need to deliver this policy. I think he will have to try harder. He is refusing to accept that cross-subsidisation underpins the system. If we pull away the opportunities for that cross-subsidisation, it will either squeeze costs somewhere else or affect staffing ratios and quality.
Mr Gyimah
I thank the hon. Lady for being so generous with her time. My point is that before the spending review, as before any spending review, there was wild speculation about what Government promises made in their manifesto will cost. Until the Government have actually set out the detail of a policy, that is all speculation. Since the spending review we have made clear who is eligible and provided the money to fund it, so it is wrong for hon. Members to keep referring to speculative figures that were published before the spending review.
Pat Glass
I have looked at the IPPR document and the Government’s review of the cost of childcare, and there is hugely more detail in the IPPR document than in the review. The Minister has referred to the review several times, and I have it here. My reading is that it does not take account of cross-subsidisation.
Childcare Bill [ Lords ] (Second sitting)
Sam Gyimah Excerpts(8 years, 11 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Mr Sam Gyimah)
The hon. Lady outlines precisely the idea underlying the early implementers, which we announced will happen in the second half of 2016 to test local demand, innovation and how parents respond to the offer. If she is saying that she wants to see that activity, I am certainly with her. If however she is suggesting that we should have further discussion about funding that was settled in explicit terms in the spending review, I am not with her.
Pat Glass
My understanding of the early implementers is that they are few: fewer than four children per authority if spread across the country. Therefore, unless the Minister can tell me otherwise, I cannot see how that is a major testing out of the policy. The review is about making sure that it is sustainable. We all want it to work; we just want it to work right.
Mr Gyimah
Five thousand children will benefit early from the policy as a result of the early implementers, but alongside that we will be testing a number of other things such as the eligibility checking system that Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs is working on, which will be joined with tax-free child care; policy and practice around special educational needs and disability; and innovation around flexibility. Therefore, in addition to the 5,000 children who will get in early, we will look at a whole number of other things during the early implementation stage.
Pat Glass
We are grateful for that, but, as I said, 5,000 children across the country is not a huge number on which to test out sustainability, and funding sustainability in particular.
The Minister has talked a lot about funding, but he has not convinced me that he has filled that massive funding gap. It is not just me, their lordships or the Institute for Public Policy Research who are saying that, but the sector as a whole. There seems to be an inability to accept the true cost of childcare.
The Minister talked a lot about his review of childcare costs. There were lots of things I could not find in it, but in particular I could not find any kind of building in of future costs. We know that the sector will face costs in future such as the apprenticeship levy. We all agree with the apprenticeship levy, which is a great idea, but the childcare sector has a high number of apprentices. Therefore, whether we agree with the apprenticeship levy or not, we must accept that it will be an additional cost on the sector.
The sector has talked to me a lot about the implementation of the living wage, which is not only about implementing a minimum wage for those at the bottom, as the Chancellor seems to think. There are differentials and they are very slim, so if we implement the living wage, which will now be the minimum wage for those at the bottom, on the least wages, we have to increase the wages of those who are level 3-qualified, of graduate leads and of managers—all slim differentials. The sector is telling me that that is not built into the review.
Mr Gyimah
On the subject of future costs, I want to put something on the record. We want providers to take steps to absorb some of the future cost pressures. As a result, we have front-loaded the uplift to help providers do so, and we have done that even though the cost of childcare review found that the average cost of delivering the three and four-year-old entitlement is £4.25, which is below our existing national average rate of £4.56. We want to work with providers to become more efficient—
Pat Glass
I thank the Minister. That is helpful, because there is a lot of confusion around the funding. I will come on to £4.56 average rate in a minute.
Other future costs appear not to have been taken into account in the review, such as rising business rates or top-slicing by local authorities. The hon. Member for Norwich North talked about local authorities top-slicing anywhere from about 2% to about 9%. The budget used to be ring-fenced—it was ring-fenced in 2010, but the current Government took away the ring fence and have allowed the top-slicing to go on. It would be easy to put the ring fence back.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady knows very well that the early years funding is part of the dedicated schools grant, so local authorities cannot dip into it to spend on, say, potholes. On the issue of top-slicing, we will set a firm expectation for local authorities of how much they may top-slice, alongside our review of the early years national funding formula, so that the majority of the funds goes directly to providers.
Pat Glass
Honestly, don’t get me started on the early years funding. As I understand it, it was ring-fenced and it was an early years grant, but in 2011 it was amalgamated with 14 other grants into the early intervention grant, which covered everything from special educational needs through early years funding to behaviour support. It was huge and now it has been rolled into something else, so it is difficult, even for local authorities that want to deliver the funding, to weave their way through to what is actually early years funding. I will come on to the funding review in a moment.
I have read the cost of childcare report; it contains massive assumptions and an awful lot of complacency. The assumptions include things such as switching; the report simply makes the assumption that because parents do not switch their provider often they are satisfied. Anyone who has talked to parents knows that there are costs to switching that are not taken into account. Most parents do not want to shift their child from one childcare provider to another when the child is settled and has built up relationships, even if they cannot afford that childcare any longer or even if they have found a cheaper provider. Parents will cut out all sorts of other things to ensure that they do not have to shift their children constantly from one provider to another. It is not the same as switching electricity supplier, and we know how difficult people find that.
Pat Glass
As we are talking about three and four-year-olds, I am not sure that is relevant, but I am happy to accept it.
The Minister talked about under-occupancy. He is right that there is 75% to 90% occupancy. However, occupancy is much higher on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday than it is on a Monday and Friday. I know that the Minister will say that we can extend the 30 hours, but many families choose or are able to find familial childcare for Monday and Friday, so I am not sure that will necessarily provide him with his extra hours.
We have talked about the risks. The Minister and the review do not seem to accept the cross-subsidisation that is going on between the 15 hours and the rest. Childcare providers tell me clearly that they are only able to provide the 15 hours of free childcare because they charge more for any additional hours that parents want, or they charge for meals or other things, so that they can deliver the 15 hours. There is a real danger if we extend this without the right kind of funding to support it that it will come out in other areas. The squeeze will be on in other areas, and the cost of childcare for babies, one-year-olds and two-year-olds will rise sharply.
Pat Glass
The Minister makes it sound as though I am making this up. I reached this view by talking to the sector. I spoke to all the people who contributed to the costs of childcare report as recently as last night. They told me they do not know how it came up with the results it did, given the data they input and the discussions that they had. I am not making this up; that is what the sector tells me.
Mr Gyimah
Of course, that is what happens when the Government go out and say we will increase the rate, and we will undertake a review to find out what the new rate will be. Do not be surprised if lots of people say the rate is not enough. This is based on evidence that we were supplied with. We have compared the rates here with the rates in their own reports that they published, and the new rate is more than adequate. If the hon. Lady disagrees, can she tell us what she thinks is the right rate?
Pat Glass
That is absolutely right. The offer made in May this year was 30 hours a week of free childcare. It is not now 30 hours a week free childcare to parents who are working more than eight hours. The thresholds have increased and the numbers of people eligible have gone down. As I said on Second Reading, any parent who voted Conservative on the basis of that offer will be feeling seriously short-changed now.
Pat Glass
I absolutely agree, but I did not make an offer of 30 hours of free childcare in May 2015—the Government did.
I want to move on to amendment 10. I am happy to take up the Minister’s offer of working with him to look at how we can extend the take-up of childcare for disabled children. However, I am not sure how I feel about going back to the Department for Education, given that I worked there before 2010. Perhaps we can meet in a coffee shop or something, but I am very happy to work with him.
I agree with the Minister that the issues around children and access, as regards children being able to access education in schools or childcare for disabled children, are not always about money. Some are, but in my experience, an awful lot of this is about confidence. I have worked with schools on many occasions, although not with childcare providers because that was not necessarily my area of expertise, to try and get them to the point at which they can admit a child who has a disability—who has something they have not seen before, who has something really unusual.
I remember one child, a lovely little boy; I think he is probably about 16 now. He had very little movement—a little bit of head movement, but nothing much more. Those at the school were terrified. They were really worried—it was quite a long time ago, and I think it would be fairly routine now—but we worked with the school. At that time, another child at the school had a little bit of learning difficulty and a little bit of physical difficulty, but nothing huge across the piece, and every time I spoke to the headteacher, he would mention that little boy.
Once the child who had very little movement was admitted, when I saw the headteacher again I asked how Fred—I think that was the other boy’s name—was getting on. He said, “Oh, we’re not worried about that at all. Do you know what? He’s no bother.” As soon as the staff at the school had the confidence, training and support—the support was really important—and admitted children with quite significant difficulties, they were really proud of themselves and of how well they had done, and they were looking to admit the next child with another serious disability. I think much of it is about a little bit of training. Some of it is about money, but a lot is about confidence and giving those childcare providers the confidence that they are not on their own.
The Minister talked about Government reforms and I welcome their reforms on special educational needs and disability. They are a huge step in the right direction. We wish them well. The difficulty, as he would expect me to say, is that these are being implemented at a time when local authority budgets are being significantly cut. Therefore, there is sometimes a very difficult financial circle for local authorities to square.
The Minister talked about the funding already in the system to tackle the problems that disabled children have in not getting access to the 15 hours of childcare. He talked about the higher rate of funding block, but, as I pointed out in an intervention, my understanding is that local authorities are really struggling to provide the statutory provision that they need to support statements and the education, health and social care plans that fall within the statutory sector, and very few have leeway with funding to support the non-statutory bit, which is the childcare sector.
On the review of fair funding, the Minister and I entertained each other one Thursday evening on the graveyard shift a few weeks ago. I was amazed that something like 35 Government Members turned out. One of the things that was said, to which I did not respond at the time, was that the Labour Government did nothing about this. That is not true. I was working in the DFE at the time. I am probably the collective wisdom from the DFE now, because I am not sure that many people who were there are here.
I want to put a hypothetical case to the Minister. If he were to seek legal advice on this, I suspect it would tell him that there is a direct line between those authorities—largely but not all metropolitan—that have high council tax, and those that funded education above the standard spending assessments, because this is all historical. There is still what I think ought to be referred to as a golden thread between those authorities that pay high council tax and those whose schools are highly funded.
If the Minister were to seek legal advice, he would find that there is probably a remedy for those authorities that have low council tax and low funding for schools. They can have a referendum and raise council tax and pass it on to their schools. The Minister may therefore find that his legal advice would tell him that if he were simply to transfer funds across, his chances of winning a judicial review against the big beasts of Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds and so on would not be bonny.
Pat Glass
No, I do not think that is right and I would not defend it at all. However, I think that if the Minister is simply going to redistribute existing funding—to level it down—he may find he has legal problems. If he tries to level it up, there will be no problems at all.
The highest rate of funding block is insufficient to address statutory needs. I listened to what the Minister said about tax-free childcare. As he quite rightly said, this is about the Government topping up a bank account, into which the parent will put £800 and the Government will top up to £1,000 for each child. However, that is not realistic for most parents of children with disabilities.
As I said earlier, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation evidence highlighted that disabled children are most likely to live in poverty, that it costs three times as much to raise a disabled child as it does to raise a child without a disability, that families of disabled children are two and a half times more likely to have no parent working for more than 16 hours a week in paid employment, that only 16% of mothers of disabled children work, compared with 61% of all mothers, and that 83% of parent carers say that lack of suitable childcare is the main barrier to work. Most parents of disabled children are not going to be sitting around with a spare £800 per child. Some families will be helped, but the funding will not help across the piece.
Pat Glass
That helps, but I do not think parents of disabled children have huge amounts of money lying around that they can use for this. However, it will help and we are grateful for that.
We remain concerned at the funding gap, despite what the Minister says. We believe that his policy is underfunded and we are concerned about the risks that could result—less provision, less choice for parents, diminishing quality and sharp rises in childcare for younger children. We remain convinced that an ongoing review would help to make the policy work and deliver what we all want, but we will not press clause stand part to a vote. On amendment 10, however, I believe that the Minister is well meaning, but nothing he has said today has convinced me that anything will change for families of disabled children, so we will seek to divide the Committee.
Question put, That the amendment be made.
The Chair
We have also debated clause 1 stand part, so the question is that clause 1 stand part of the Bill. As many as are of that opinion say aye; of the contrary, no.
The Chair
Order. The motion is very straightforward: that clause 1 stand part of the Bill. If the Government wish clause 1 to stand part of the Bill, they vote aye. If they do not wish clause 1 to stand part of the Bill, they vote no. I will try again, for the benefit of the Front Benchers. The question is that clause 1 stand part of the Bill. As many as are of that opinion say aye; of the contrary, no.
The Chair
I think the Noes have it, on the basis of the Minister shouting no.
Clause 1 disagreed to.
Pat Glass
I beg to move amendment 8, in clause 2, page 2, line 17, after ‘work’, insert
‘, voluntary work or full-time education course’.
This amendment would also allow those parents who undertake voluntary work or who are in full time education with the intention of retraining for the workforce to access 30 hours of free childcare.
Pat Glass
I welcome that intervention. We do not want people to get into the situation that we see frequently in our constituency surgeries, where parents turn up with huge bills for tax credits that they need to pay back. They did not intend to get into that situation, and it is not about fraud; it is about things being unclear.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady touches on an important issue, which is worth clarifying. The power to create an offence in the Bill relates only to information—that is, sensitive information about children or about parents’ income—being passed on without authorisation. The measure is designed to protect parents and their data, not to punish them. The financial penalties scheme is for false declaration or fraud, which is more proportionate.
Pat Glass
That is really helpful. Still, financial penalties will be imposed, and we see that happening all the time to parents who are on tax credits. It would be best to avoid that situation if we can by being as clear as possible. Given that many families have different and varied patterns of work, it would be helpful if the Minister could explain to us exactly what the eligibility criteria will be, and how far he is prepared to go on that question. For those on zero-hours contracts, those who do seasonal work and the self-employed, whose work and income are entirely variable and dependent on others, eligibility needs to be calculated over a period of time.
For many people, the self-employed included—we welcome the desire expressed by the Government to include them in eligibility for the scheme—it will not be possible for them or for Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to confirm their income until 18 months after the end of a financial year. The Minister will get absolutely sick of me giving him the benefit of my experience, but when I worked in education and we had student grants— remember them?—self-employed parents were allowed to estimate their income, and their children’s grants were calculated on the basis of those estimates, with a full reconciliation 18 months later when HMRC issued confirmation of the parents’ income. I am sure that the same is true of student loans. Will similar estimations of income and hours of work be allowed in this case? Will they be calculated over a certain period? If so, what will that be?
Pat Glass
My understanding is that the 25 hours was universal, and when something is universal we do not need such untidiness. Now, however, we are talking about the Government’s 30 hours. For the benefit of us all, parents in particular, I simply want clarification of the issues. Will those income and hours be estimated over a period of time? What is that period? Will HMRC be confirming things?
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady is being incredibly generous in giving way again, and I will address her points in my response. I hate to be the killjoy who reminds her, but the manifesto on which she stood for election promised 25 hours of free childcare for the working parents of three and four-year-olds. It was not a universal offer.
Pat Glass
It was universal for parents who are working. Getting back to the probing amendment, will an average of 16 hours a week over 52 weeks be possible for those on zero-hours contracts, in seasonal work and so on? What will happen if something goes wrong? What will happen if parents genuinely believe that they will work an average of 16 hours a week over 52 weeks, based on the average of the past three years, say, but something goes horribly wrong and they fail to reach the average hours or the average income?
Things do go wrong for families. Poor weather might lead to a rotten summer—it would never happen, because that is completely unknown in the UK, isn’t it? If a business depends on a good summer, people could find themselves falling foul of the income threshold. Flooding over Christmas, or even in November, might wipe out earnings in the peak season—again, not unknown in the UK. Recession might dry up people’s work and income—again, not unknown in the UK—or even an international banking crisis could force families into unemployment and poverty. It might be something else that is completely out of the control of the parents. What will happen then?
If the parents genuinely estimate their position based on the previous three years, backed up by all that historical stuff, and then something goes wrong, who will make decisions about that? What is likely to happen to parents? Will they have to pay back the cost? I was going to ask if they faced two years in prison, but we have already heard that they will not.
The Minister needs to make regulations and it would be helpful to know what is in his mind when he is thinking about them. We all welcome the Bill—so warmly that we want to get it right for parents. If the Minister can be absolutely clear about the issue of eligibility, we will be grateful.
Jess Phillips
And how long is that grace period? I put that question to the Minister.
Mr Gyimah
I thank the hon. Lady for inviting me to intervene. The system will be checked by HMRC, which will check earnings on a forward-looking quarterly basis. Based on that, parents will be eligible for childcare. That will be done automatically; parents do not need to apply. If parents disagree with the decision that is made, there will be an appeals process about which I will speak in more detail in my speech. We have to remember the fundamental principle mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham—this is about work. Someone needs to earn only £115.20 a week––
The Chair
Order. Interventions must be short. The Minister will have an opportunity to wind up the debate in his speech later. Other Members have opportunities to intervene and make speeches because we are not limited to time. I would be grateful if Members would bear that in mind.
Mr Gyimah
It is a privilege to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hanson. A number of points that have been raised this afternoon have led me to think that Opposition Members want to turn an employment offer into a universal offer of 30 hours of childcare. To be clear, every three or four-year-old will get 15 hours of childcare. The entitlement to the second 15 hours is based on the parent’s employment. I will speak to amendments 8, 9 and 12, to clarify whether specific groups of parents from varying circumstances will be able to access the 30 hours—the extended entitlement—as per those probing amendments.
I am grateful to the hon. Members for North West Durham and for Birmingham, Yardley for the amendments, and I want to make it clear that the Government recognise that for many families, childcare is not an issue; it is the issue. That is why supporting working families with their childcare costs is at the heart of our policy. Amendment 8 concerns parents who work on a voluntary basis and full-time students. It would allow parents who are not in remunerated work, but who are contributing to society through voluntary work, to access the extended entitlement. It would also allow parents who are in full-time education and taking steps to retrain and prepare themselves for the labour market to access the extended entitlement.
Pat Glass
I want to make it clear that when we talk about full-time students in training, we are talking about students who are on a training course that will lead into an occupation. We are talking not about full-time study across the piece, but about people who are training to be nurses, doctors or teachers, or doing something that will lead directly into employment.
Mr Gyimah
I thank the hon. Lady for that clarification, and I will come back to that in detail. As I have said, all three and four-year-olds, and 40% of the most disadvantaged two-year-olds, are already entitled to 15 hours of free childcare a week. That provides substantial opportunity for their parents to take up voluntary work where they wish to do so, or indeed to study. The additional 15 hours of free childcare is intended to help parents who wish to take up paid employment to support their families.
The additional 15 hours will be available to families where each parent, or the sole parent in a lone parent family, earns an average weekly income equivalent to at least16 hours at the national minimum wage or the living wage, and less than £100,000 a year. Although the Government recognise the importance of volunteering, the purpose of the extended entitlement is to help working parents with the cost of childcare so that they can take up paid work if they want to, or work additional hours. The approach we are taking is consistent with other Government childcare schemes, including tax-free childcare and the childcare element of universal credit.
Mr Gyimah
That is a good question, and I am happy to provide clarification. The national living wage applies to people over the age of 25, so, in their case, the eligibility criterion would be set at that rate, which is £115.20 a week. Those who are under 25 will be on the national minimum wage, in which case the earnings criterion will be £107 a week. Even if someone is doing voluntary work, if they can combine their voluntary work with earning £107 or £115.20 a week, they will get the additional 15 hours of childcare.
Alex Cunningham
I hope that the Minister enjoyed his long career as an investment banker and subsequently running his own business that specialised in recruitment. He will know that experience is absolutely critical to people getting a job. Surely, if people are to achieve the work experience they need to get on to an interview list, we should value all their work. Some of these jobs, like interns here at the House of Commons, are unpaid full-time roles. Surely we should value that, let them have childcare and then move on into a career.
Alex Cunningham
I will place on the record that I have never taken an intern because I cannot pay one. If I were able to pay one, I would, and I think the same should apply to every MP within the House.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Gentleman makes a good point about volunteering. We recognise the importance of volunteering, but as I said, the purpose of the extended entitlement is to help working parents with the cost of childcare. The approach we are taking here is consistent with other Government policy. Of course, where a parent or parents are undertaking voluntary work alongside paid employment that meets the minimum income criteria they will be eligible, as I have said, for 30 hours of free childcare. However we are clear that parents solely undertaking voluntary work should not be able to access the extended entitlement.
The issue of parents in full-time education has also been raised. Again, they get the first 15 hours and if they are in the 40% most disadvantaged households, they will get 15 hours of free childcare for their two-year-olds. In addition, the Government already provide support to parents in recognised education courses through discretionary learner support and the loans bursary fund. Students in higher education may be eligible for support through the childcare grant, which offers parents support of up to 85% of their childcare costs up to a maximum of £155.24 a week for one child and £266.15 for two children. Where parents choose to undertake part-time work alongside their studies, and on average earn the equivalent of 16 hours at the national minimum wage or living wage per week, they will also be able to benefit from 30 hours of free childcare. However, we are clear that parents solely undertaking full-time study should not be able to access the extended entitlement.
Jess Phillips
I wonder whether those training to be nurses, who are working now for free in our NHS, will be entitled to the 30 hours of free childcare if they are in full-time nursing training.
Mr Gyimah
There is the Care to Learn Scheme, which can apply in some cases, and other programmes, such as the childcare element of tax credits, could apply to them, but specifically, the additional 15 hours here is linked to employment and income, unless you are earning no income at all, when of course, you will not be eligible to get this.
Ruth Cadbury
Is the Minister saying that parents can only use this offer if they are already working? What concerns me is that this offer will not benefit those parents who want to get into better paid work because they are studying full-time. When one is studying full-time it is quite difficult to also work while also having three and four-year-olds.
Mr Gyimah
Many of those parents will be eligible, assuming they are at the lower end of the income scale, for the childcare element of tax credits and universal credit when that is fully rolled out. There will be support through that to help them with their situation, in terms of getting back to work. There are also other programmes, such as the Care to Learn Scheme which can help them. As far as the additional 15 hours is concerned, yes, it is linked to an actual employment status. Under the voucher scheme that was introduced by the previous Government, people who were self-employed or earning the minimum wage did not qualify for that scheme. Under the scheme we are introducing here, all these people qualify for their additional 15 hours.
As I have said, supporting working families is at the heart of this policy and we have been clear throughout that people on zero-hours contracts and the self-employed will get this. The contractual position will not determine whether their children—and it is the children rather than the parents—are eligible. The legislation allows for children of parents on zero-hours contracts to be eligible in the same way as anyone else. Eligibility will be based on what parents reasonably expect to earn on average across the coming quarter, enabling parents with more irregular working patterns to benefit.
Ruth Cadbury
Will the Minister clarify over what period those calculations are done? Does he literally mean that the calculation will be done over a three-week period, or will it be averaged out over several months, particularly given what my hon. Friends said earlier about seasonal and variable working hours?
Mr Gyimah
As I said in response to an earlier question, the calculation will be done on a quarterly basis, but over time, the system will know what someone’s average earnings are. The hon. Lady also asked in an earlier question how simple it will be for parents. Parents will not have to update their details constantly; it will be done quarterly by the system. Parents will not have to work out complicated sums to access the extended entitlement, as they must do in the tax credits system. The joint application system that HMRC develops will provide a single, simple point of access for parents. The system will give parents an instant decision on their eligibility in most cases, so that will apply in the vast majority of cases.
Again, to take a practical example, a person on a zero-hours contract who, despite periods without work, reasonably expects to meet the minimum income level will be eligible. HMRC will take a proportionate approach to compliance, using details of past income and other information provided by parents to assess eligibility. We know that parents whose situations fluctuate need their childcare arrangements to support them in work. We will therefore work with local authorities and childcare providers through the early implementation phase to develop provision that can support parents with irregular working patterns.
There are already good examples from across the country of providers offering parents flexible care. For example, in Brent, they have set up an emergency and overnight register to match up parents with childminders whom they can access at short notice 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Swindon intends to offer weekend early-education sessions from January 2016, initially through an academy and a private provider, as well as through a number of registered childminders. Through early implementers, we will work on the right type of provision as well as ensure that the eligibility system works consistently with people whose earnings fluctuate.
We want to see that kind of innovation in other parts of the country, and that is what the early implementation programme will support. We also recognise that self-employed parents’ income is often not smooth or predictable. The free entitlement will be available to self-employed parents, and we intend to have special rules for them similar to those available in tax-free childcare. Self-employed parents who work throughout the year but get income only at certain times in the year will be able to average that income across the whole tax year rather than just quarterly. Also, because new businesses often struggle to get going, self-employed parents will not need to take the minimum income limit into account at all in their first year.
Amendment 12 relates to the parents of an eligible disabled child. Again, we recognise that all families are different and that some may face particular issues, for example where parents have caring responsibilities. That is why we have made it clear throughout the passage of the Bill that when one parent is employed and one parent has substantial caring responsibilities, based on specific benefits received for caring, such households will be able to access the extended entitlement.
I am pleased to confirm that it is our intention that that will include households where one parent is working and one parent is being paid carer’s allowance or the carer element of universal credit. That includes parents caring for their own three or four-year-old child where the child is in receipt of disability living allowance or is certified blind. If a single parent with a disabled child meets both the conditions regarding paid work and the minimum income threshold, they will of course be able to access the extended entitlement. If they do not work they will not be eligible for the entitlement, but they might be able to receive carer’s allowance or universal credit.
The appeals process has been touched on. If parents are not happy with HMRC’s decisions about their eligibility, they will be able to seek a mandatory review by HMRC, and if they are still not satisfied they will be able to appeal to the first-tier tribunal. They can also appeal against decisions about financial penalties—both the fact of the penalty and its amount.
Ruth Cadbury
I thank the Minister for those detailed responses to our concerns, and for being keen for the system to be simple and straightforward as possible for parents when their eligibility for the various schemes is being assessed. Has he had conversations with HMRC and the Treasury, and is he confident that the necessary resources and the technical support will exist in HMRC to provide a seamless, smooth and well informed process for parents who will be navigating what appears to be a complicated system?
Mr Gyimah
I thank the hon. Lady for her interest. Getting the technology platform right is absolutely crucial, and the cross-Government taskforce on childcare, which I co-chair, has considered it in detail. In addition, officials in the Department for Education are working closely with HMRC on the joint system, the development of which secured funding at the spending review, and we will provide the system to HMRC in due course. I thank the hon. Lady for her legitimate concern.
Pat Glass
I apologise if I missed this information. The Minister said that parents will be able to appeal to the first-tier tribunal. Will that be the employment tribunal, and will there be costs involved for parents, in the same way as there are for those appealing to that tribunal regarding unfair dismissal, for example?
Mr Gyimah
If the hon. Lady will bear with me, I will await inspiration from the usual channels. In the meantime, I will plough on with my speech.
In relation to the extended entitlement, we are clear that the powers we have taken are sufficient to enable us to cater for non-standard working patterns and families’ different circumstances. I can also reassure hon. Members that if a parent’s circumstances change, their child will remain eligible for the extended free entitlement for a short period—there will be no instantaneous change. We hope that within that period the parent will be able to regain employment and continue to declare that they expect to meet the eligibility criteria. If that is not the case, and the parent is clear that they no longer expect to be in paid employment after the grace period, they become ineligible.
Ruth Cadbury
The Minister begs the question: what is the definition of “short period”?
Mr Gyimah
The short period is in line with the grace period, which is three months.
As hon. Members can see, we fully support the intention behind the amendments. However, we believe that putting too much detail in the Bill about the specific circumstances in which children could qualify risks inadvertently excluding some of those we want to include. Nevertheless, Members will have the opportunity to scrutinise the regulations before they are finalised.
As part of the development of the joint childcare application system, we will publish information for parents and their partners to make clear the eligibility rules for different groups of parents, so that they can be clear about whether they can access the extended entitlement. Online and telephone advice will also be available to assist parents. In addition, we will publish statutory guidance for local authorities next year, so that they can advise parents about their eligibility for the extended entitlement and discharge their responsibilities for delivering childcare places in keeping with the scheme’s rules.
In response to the question about the first-tier tribunal, the inspiration that I have received says that it will be specifically a social security tribunal and not an employment tribunal.
Mr Gyimah
I will get inspiration on that before the end of my speech.
I hope that hon. Members are reassured that the parents who are the subject of these amendments will be supported under the Bill, and I hope that the hon. Member for North West Durham feels reassured enough not to press the amendments.
I am waiting for inspiration and for someone to intervene on me.
Pat Glass
I am immensely grateful to the Minister for that. The word on the street was that the Government wanted to better Labour’s offer of 25 hours of free childcare but never really expected to have to deliver it—they thought they would be able to deal it away in some kind of coalition. Given that, I think the Minister has done incredibly well in getting to the detail; credit where it is due.
The Minister has been able to clarify for me, in a way that I did not understand before, the issue of eligibility and the 16-hour work threshold, the issue of those under and over 25, and the issue of the national living wage and the minimum wage. That is really helpful.
I am also immensely grateful to the Minister for clarifying that parents will not end up in prison. I had an awful feeling that parents could end up with two years in prison as a result of getting the system wrong. That is clearly not the case. I also now understand the eligibility criteria on the grounds of income.
I seek clarification on one point, and I am happy for the Minister to intervene on me. I was interested in what he had to say about people who are self-employed, which we welcome, but there is a danger. I hate to throw a spanner in the works, but if someone is eligible automatically in the year in which they set up a business, are the Government mindful of people who would want to abuse the system by folding their business at the end of the year and starting a new one?
I have concerns about only a couple of things now, and I think my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley raised one of them. In the spending review, the Chancellor changed the system of training for nurses, so that they no longer come under bursaries and now have to receive grants. That will automatically wipe out a huge number of nurses across the country from eligibility for childcare, and I ask the Minister to have another look at that issue. Those people are not on great wages, they are working hard, and they will contribute to our society in the future in a way that many other students on grants perhaps will not. It is unfortunate, to say the least, if they are simply taken out of the eligibility criteria.
Also, I understand the reasons behind the grace period, but I worry a little bit about children falling out of childcare places every 13 weeks. If a parent regularly finds a job after four months, once their children have built relationships—for some families, that is the case—that could have a worrying impact on the children’s development. I do not know what the answer is—I am not pretending that I do—but it is something for the Government to consider.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady raises an important point about how the grace period works in practice, the eligibility checking and the actual childcare places on the ground. As I said, one of the principal things that we will be able to test during the early implementation phase is exactly when a local authority is informed, when the provider is informed, how long a place is kept open for and so on. We will have to iron out those details, which is why they belong in regulations rather than in the Bill.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady again makes a very good point, and I thank the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley for raising the issue. I am willing to offer to look into what exactly someone in such a situation will get, because there is a package of childcare measures, and they might be entitled to other measures. I am happy to write to the hon. Lady and meet her to look at what they could get and how it could be dealt with.
Mr Gyimah
I beg to move amendment 2, in clause 2, page 2, line 25, leave out from “about” to the end of line 26 and insert “—
(i) the form of a declaration and the manner in which it is to be made;
(ii) the conditions to be met by the person making a declaration;
(iii) the period for which a declaration has effect.”
This amendment enables the Secretary of State to set conditions to be met by a person making a declaration as to a child’s eligibility for the extended entitlement
Mr Gyimah
These amendments are on the role of HMRC in relation to the extended entitlement, and they include a consequential amendment that would enable the provision to come into force immediately on Royal Assent. They are technical in nature.
As the Secretary of State for Education, my right hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan), set out on Second Reading, parents will be able to apply for the extended entitlement as part of a simple joint online system being developed by HMRC in partnership with National Savings and Investments for tax-free childcare. That means that parents will have to provide information on their personal circumstances only once, even where they wish to apply for both schemes, which will create a simple and smooth customer journey that will save parents and providers valuable time.
Ruth Cadbury
I value the Minister’s comments, but am I right that some parents will go down the universal credit route? Can we be assured that there will be a link-up between HMRC and the Department for Work and Pensions to help parents assess their eligibility, depending on which route they take?
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady raises a good point. Obviously, universal credit is different benefits rolled into one. The one that we are concerned with here is the childcare element. There is a plan further down the line to make sure that is incorporated, which will make it easy for parents to move across the different childcare products as their circumstances change.
Mr Gyimah
That is very much part of the thinking.
Amendment 2 will enable regulations to be made under the clause setting out the conditions to be met by a person making a declaration as to a child’s eligibility for the extend entitlement. For example, to be consistent with tax-free childcare, the person making the declaration will need to be the person responsible for the child. It is crucial that we are able to provide clarity for parents about the declaration they will have to make, and that we can ensure that HMRC will be provided with the information it needs to make decisions about whether a child is eligible for the extended entitlement.
The conditions that the person making the declaration will need to meet will be set out alongside the form and manner of the declaration. Regulations will say more about those matters in due course and will be subject to the highest degree of parliamentary scrutiny.
Amendment 3 will make it clear in the Bill that HMRC will be verifying, and making a determination about, a child’s eligibility for additional free childcare. The amendment will ensure that HMRC can work in a timely fashion to extend its online system, so that it can also check eligibility for the 30 hours of free childcare. That will enable HMRC to determine whether a child is eligible for the extended entitlement.
Amendment 6 deals with commencement, which is when the various provisions of the Bill will come into force. It is consequential on the new provision that gives HMRC the power to make a determination as to a child’s eligibility. We intend that provision to come into force on Royal Assent, so that HMRC can begin to build the technical aspects of the joint eligibility checking system.
Ensuring that the operational aspects of the extended entitlement are in place in good time will enable us to test that the eligibility checking system runs smoothly for parents.
Pat Glass
These are technical amendments, and we do not have a problem with them. The only thing we ask is that the Minister confirms that HMRC has the capacity and resources to deliver. Members from all parts of the House deal regularly with HMRC, which is one of the most difficult departments. I remember when a nurse who had just retired came to see me. She had been on PAYE throughout her career, and she suddenly got a bill for £42,000 back tax. After we explored the matter, it turned out that she did not owe anything. I always count such results as major successes, but such cases are happening in all our constituencies all the time. People tell me that they spend hours and hours trying to get through to HMRC, just to ask simple questions about their tax. We need to know that HMRC has the capacity and resources to deliver on this measure.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady asks a legitimate question. Although HMRC will be checking eligibility, the measure is not specifically to do with the tax system. Funding has been provided to offer parents telephone support where needed, and there is funding available for the IT system. That funding specifically relates to checking eligibility for the 30 hours of childcare, rather than being part of HMRC’s wider tax-related activities.
Amendment 2 agreed to.
Amendment made: 3, in clause 2, page 2, line 26, at end insert—
‘(4A) For the purposes of assisting the Secretary of State in the discharge of the duty imposed by subsection (1), the Commissioners for Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs may carry out functions in connection with the making of determinations as to whether a child is a qualifying child of working parents.’—(Mr Gyimah.)
This amendment confers on HMRC the power to make a determination as to a child’s eligibility for the extended entitlement and carry out associated functions.
Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.
Mr Gyimah
The clause will place a duty on the Secretary of State to ensure that childcare is available free of charge for qualifying children of working parents for a period equivalent to 30 hours for 38 weeks in any year. The Government recognise that childcare is an issue for many families. The new extended entitlement, with an additional 15 hours, is intended to support working parents with the cost of childcare, enabling them to work additional hours if they wish to do so. That will be available to families where both parents are working or the sole parent is working in a lone-parent family. Self-employed parents will also be eligible, as we heard earlier, as would parents in receipt of tax credits, universal credit, tax and childcare vouchers through their employer or tax-free childcare.
The clause gives the Secretary of State the power to set out in regulations the description of a qualifying child. We intend that a child will qualify from the school term following their third birthday, in the same way as with the existing 15-hour early education entitlement. The clause will also enable the Secretary of State to set out in regulations the criteria that must be met by parents. The regulations would set out what is or is not to be regarded as paid work and how the extended entitlement would support temporary absences from the workplace. It is important that parents on maternity, paternity or adoption leave can maintain their existing childcare arrangements while they take time away from the workplace to adjust to the new arrival.
As the Secretary of State set out on Second Reading, each parent must on average be earning a weekly minimum equivalent to 16 hours at the national minimum wage or national living wage. From April 2016, the national living wage will come into force for workers aged 25 and over, alongside the national minimum wage for workers under 25. A working parent who is 25 will therefore need to earn a weekly minimum equivalent of £115.20 in order to be eligible, whereas a working parent who is 21 will need to earn a weekly minimum equivalent of around £107 at this year’s minimum wage rates. Parents on zero-hours contracts and the self-employed will be eligible in the same way as anyone else, provided they meet the earnings criteria across the coming quarter on average.
Parents with fluctuating incomes will be able to access the extended entitlement if they reasonably expect to earn the minimum on average. That income requirement will ensure we prioritise the extra 15 hours of childcare for working families that need the most help with their childcare costs. Together with the existing universal entitlement, those parents will be entitled to double the childcare support they would normally receive.
The Secretary of State outlined on Second Reading that there will be a £100,000 income limit on the extended entitlement per year for each parent. That means any family in which either parent earns more than £100,000 or any sole parent who earns more than £100,000 will not be able to claim the extended entitlement. I can confirm that the increase in the minimum income level to 16 hours per week and the annual income cap of £100,000 will also apply to tax-free childcare. I am sure Committee members will agree that it is right to align eligibility conditions for the two schemes and focus support where it is needed most. Parents will be able to apply for both schemes at the same time, using a simple online system, as I have outlined.
The duty that the clause will place on the Secretary of State demonstrates the Government’s commitment to supporting working families. It will enable the Government to deliver on their manifesto commitment and help to ensure that parents who wish to work or to work more hours are supported to do so through free childcare.
Pat Glass
We have had a detailed discussion, but there are a number of assurances I would like the Minister to give, if he can. He said that the House will have the opportunity to debate and scrutinise the regulations at the highest level, but I am aware that he is looking to remove the House of Lords amendment further on in the Bill that states all regulations should be subject to the affirmative, rather than the negative, procedure. Can he confirm there will be an opportunity for the House to debate the regulations? There will be an awful lot in the regulations. It is right that they are made, but it is also right that the House gets an opportunity to debate them when the time comes and that they are not simply laid before Parliament and slipped out under the cover of darkness.
The Minister said that HMRC will have the resources and capacity to deliver the measure. He talked about the new IT system, which I hope is not linked in any way to the IT system used for universal credit; we would be very worried if that were the case.
It is a shame that the eligibility criteria have increased. The initial offer was 30 hours of free childcare to parents working more than eight hours a week. That has increased to 16 hours, with an income threshold, taking some of our poorest and most disadvantaged working parents out of the system. I understand that it is squeezed at the top, but it is a shame those parents have been taken out of the system in order for the Government to balance the books.
I am grateful that the Minister will look at the issue of children whose parents are in women’s refuges. I hope he will look again at the issue of nurses in training who will simply be taken out of the system wholesale, but I am grateful for his clarification.
Mr Gyimah
I shall respond very briefly to the hon. Lady’s points. First, the Government will be proposing an affirmative debate on all the regulations on their first use. I am sure we will discuss that in due course.
Secondly, a bespoke IT system is being built. I have personally interrogated it. It is fantastic that, given the plethora of childcare offers out there, we are beginning to bring together the eligibility and application systems to make it easy for parents.
Thirdly, on the point about balancing the books, we have refined our eligibility criteria as we have gone through the process. Given that parents get 15 hours free, it is simply illogical to say that they have to work only an extra hour to get another 15 hours free. It is a question of not only balancing the books but refining the policy.
Fourthly, I take on board the hon. Lady’s point about nurses and grants. As with women in refuge centres, I will look at that issue and write to her to set out what else they could qualify for, given the number of childcare offers that are available.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 2, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 3
Discharging the section 2(1) duty
Pat Glass
I beg to move amendment 11, in clause 3, page 3, line 14, at end insert—
“(ba) make provision about determining and auditing the appropriate qualifications to be held by staff providing childcare for the purposes of this Act, including in relation to staff providing childcare for qualifying children with disabilities.”
This amendment would require Government to set out the qualifications that staff would be required to have or acquire when providing childcare for disabled children for the purposes of this Act.
Pat Glass
This morning I spoke briefly about the shortage of qualified staff in the workforce—I think I was ruled out of order at least three times, but now is my time—and how that is a risk to the Government’s policy of expansion of free childcare. The House of Lords Affordable Childcare Committee demonstrated that the existing scheme of 15 free hours is being run at a loss in most private, voluntary and independent settings. It is cross-subsidised by the incredibly complicated system that currently exists.
I have previously discussed the future costs of childcare that were not considered in the Government’s childcare review, which begins by telling us that
“the market is healthy, and has grown in recent years.”
It goes on to tell us that
“there is currently sufficient supply available to the majority of parents”,
yet local authorities freely acknowledge that they have insufficient supply in their areas and the House of Commons Library tells us that we have 44,000 fewer childcare places today than we had in 2009.
Putting our disagreements over the funding gaps to one side for the moment, perhaps the biggest threats to expansion in the childcare sector are the issues around workforce capacity. Childcare providers report that they are already finding it incredibly difficult to recruit well-qualified and experienced staff to deliver the existing 15 hours. Parents of disabled children tell us that the cost of and access to childcare for their children is a big problem. Most providers do not have the trained staff that they need to ensure the future development and safety of children.
Part of the difficulty that providers have in recruiting suitably qualified staff—let alone those with the qualifications and skills to support disabled children’s learning—is competition with the maintained sector, which is able to offer higher rates of pay and term-time-only contracts. Given the fact that 61% of nurseries and childcare providers are in the private and voluntary sector, there is a serious danger of the majority of that provision becoming second-class, with children having less access to good-quality and experienced staff and a further gulf opening up between the children of those parents who can access 30 hours of quality childcare in the maintained sector and the rest.
This morning, I spoke briefly about the chief inspector’s report and the experience I have had and outcomes I have seen as a member of the Education Committee. There are clear links between the quality of the provision—the quality of the staff and their qualifications—and the outcomes from children. We accept that in the maintained sector, because there is a lot of access to qualified teachers, graduates and so on, and because almost all the staff will be at least level 3 qualified, it is a natural correlation that it will have better quality provision if things remain as they are and if something is not done about the lack of qualified staff in the PVI sector.
The Minister has acknowledged that the pattern of use of childcare provision is not flat across the week, while most provision runs at between 75% and 90% capacity. As we have heard, there is much less take-up on Mondays and Friday than on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. I am advised that most settings would struggle to increase their offer from 15 to 30 hours for children who are not disabled because they do not have the space, because they cannot recruit the qualified level 3 staff they need and because they do not have the provision to offer meals in the middle of the day. Many children coming for 15 hours go home at lunchtime, when another group of children come for their 15 hours. If those children stay for 30 hours a week, there will have to be provision for offering meals in the middle of the day, and many of these settings tell me that they cannot do that.
The voluntary sector is a major sector, and it is operating out of church halls. If provision is to be extended to 30 hours, we would have to take account of those who would be displaced. It is not just about meals in the middle of the day; it is about old people’s luncheon clubs, the Mothers Union and keep-fit classes that will be displaced if 30 hours of childcare is offered. The providers tell me that they cannot offer 30 hours because they can not offer meals in the middle of the day, but they also do not want to put out all the other users of the premises.
Outside of funding, the biggest concern is the lack of capacity in the workforce. I realise that this is one part of the Department for Education operating separately from another, which happened an awful lot even in my day, but the Government have required that an outcome of any level 3 training is that staff will have a GCSE in both English and maths at grade C or above. Although we all agree that it is a good thing for staff to be qualified, by clinging to their insistence on GCSE grade C for students who have already failed that qualification after two years of study at school, the Government are going against the recommendations of both the sector and the Education Committee. The Education Committee considered the matter carefully in relation to apprenticeships in general and found that a qualification of the same difficulty and quality, such as functional skills in numeracy and literacy, was a much better and more practical way of ensuring that people completing such qualifications are both literate and numerate without forcing apprentices down a route that they have already failed.
Pat Glass
The Minister is being cynical. Does he really think that GCSE grade C in English and maths is setting the bar too high? It is not that. It is about being practical. I will explain the implications of the Government’s decision. These students are not 16 or 14, or whatever; they are apprentices working in the childcare sector, or hoping to work in the childcare sector. They have already failed, and all the evidence I saw on the Education Committee showed that functional skills in numeracy and literacy are not easier than GCSE; they are just different and more practical for the world of work.
By refusing to listen, the Government are adding to the crisis in the workforce. There has been an 80% reduction in recruitment for level 3 childcare courses and a 56% shortfall in new applicants since the new GCSE requirement was imposed—in a sector that is desperate for qualified staff. If the GCSE requirement is stopping students going into this sector, and if it is stopping them training when we already have a shortfall of qualified staff for 15 hours, how will the Government square the circle for 30 hours?
Mr Gyimah
I hope the hon. Lady is aware that one of the things I have done that was welcomed by the sector was to make the GCSE English and maths requirement one on exit, rather than on entry. The requirement is not stopping anyone getting on to a childcare course; they just need to satisfy the requirement by the time they finish the course. I believe that was welcomed by the sector.
Pat Glass
I understand that and welcome it, but equally, we cannot get away from the facts. Whether it is at the beginning or the end of the course, it is clearly putting off students. If there has been a 56% fall in new applicants since the introduction of the GCSE requirement to replace functional skills and there was no argument, as I understand, that students were coming out who were not literate or numerate, the Government must recognise that the requirement may well be part of the problem rather than of the solution.
The situation has not been helped by the Government’s lack of a workforce strategy, although I think that we may be inching towards one; I will wait to see what the Minister says. It was not helpful that the previous Minister tried to change ratios, and then changed her mind and forged ahead with the graduate early-years qualification, which did not have qualified teacher status. Those chop-and-change policies brought her into conflict with the sector and others, including the Education Committee. We have been proved right on that. I understand that to date, the course for early-years graduates, which offers 2,000 places, has recruited about 800, and that the numbers recruited have fallen year on year since it was implemented. I know that such things are not within the Minister’s gift, but in his discussions with the Secretary of State, he needs to point out that they are not helping in a sector that is already struggling to get qualified staff.
The amendment would require the Government to set out what qualifications staff are expected to have or require when providing childcare for disabled children for the purposes of the Bill. I remind the Committee of what I have already said: more than one third of parents, 38%, who were unable to access their entitlement of 15 hours of free childcare said that it was because they did not think that the childcare provider could provide for their children safely, and 30% did not think that the provider had adequately trained staff. One quarter said that the nursery or carer had refused a place exclusively on the grounds of their child’s disability.
I have talked to the Committee about my experience that it is not simply a question of training or even money. In many cases, it is about confidence. Once providers have had some training and support, they feel more confident opening up to more significant difficulties. I welcome the Minister’s offer to work with me to explore the issue, and I ask that the qualifications for providers form part of that offer.
Alex Cunningham
Sorry, I think that was a minimum qualification. I want to see continual professional development. As I have stressed time and again, the higher the qualification, the better the outcome for children.
Children growing up in poverty are, on average, 15 months behind in vocabulary development at the age of five compared with their peers, and those eligible for free school meals are 75% less likely to reach the expected standard of language and communication than their peers at the age of five.
Mr Gyimah
I think my hon. and learned Friend the Member for South East Cambridgeshire was pointing to a contradiction in the Opposition’s position. Their Front-Bench spokesman said that insisting on GCSE maths and English rather than focusing on functional skills might be making things more difficult. The hon. Member for Stockton North seems to be arguing for even more stringent qualification criteria. The Government believe that, given that qualifications are the biggest determinant of the quality of the interaction with the child, it is right that we set them where they are.
Alex Cunningham
I do not think there is any difference between me and my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham. We both believe that we should be driving up quality and we both believe that we should see qualifications driven up.
Alex Cunningham
I am pleased that we can agree on much that was in my speech. I cannot understand what the problem is with requiring people to have qualifications. If you want to be an engineer, you are required to get an engineering degree. I think that if you are required to lead the best-quality care, perhaps you need some form of graduate qualification in childcare, or something associated with it. Of course, we face the possibility that we will have children attending poor-quality settings where they will be unable to access provision that meets their individual needs. This is why new clause 1 would require the Government to publish proposals for the development of the early years workforce to ensure that all three and four-year-olds receive access to high-quality, flexible and accessible early education and childcare provision, delivered by those well qualified, confident and experienced practitioners, and led by that early years graduate.
Mr Gyimah
I want to draw the hon. Gentleman’s attention to what is actually happening on the ground, as far as the quality of the workforce is concerned. The number of graduates in the workforce continues to rise. Between 2008 and 2013, the proportion of full day care staff with a degree or higher increased from 5% to 13%. The National Day Nurseries Association June 2015 survey showed that 88% of centres employ a graduate early years teacher. Since 2007, 16,159 individuals have achieved early years professional status.
Alex Cunningham
That, Mr Hanson, is tremendously good news for the childcare sector, there is no doubt about it, but it is not good enough. We are looking at a situation in which there will be a demand for increased provision, yet we have insufficient people coming through the system to fulfil those roles in the future. To my mind, it is clear that the expansion of free childcare requires that we first invest in the very people and infrastructure standing behind it. The Minister just talked at length about the fact that people are getting better in the situation, but we still have this tremendous gap, particularly if we are to provide everything that he wants us to provide.
This amendment would set the Secretary of State the achievable target of laying a report before both Houses within six months of the Act coming into effect, setting out how the Department intends to support such development of the early years workforce. I cannot understand how there can be a problem with that. All we are asking is: what are the Government’s plans? How are we going to see development happen in the future? The report should specifically include targets for increasing the number of practitioners holding level 3 qualifications and the proportion of children receiving early education and childcare led directly by an early years graduate.
The requirement for teaching qualifications has made the headlines over the past few years. Indeed, we all know that Labour committed, before the general election, to ensure that all teachers in all maintained schools should become qualified and continue to expand and strengthen their qualifications through high-quality professional development. As a former member of the Education Committee, I have considered the need for qualified and competent teachers in detail. I know that my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham shares my interest in this subject.
With a background focused on children and young people at local authority level, I have witnessed at first hand the importance of education and education policies —as a route into work, a means to attaining personal potential, a mode of better understanding the world we live in, or simply the quenching of a thirst for knowledge. Education is a powerful tool for young people of all ages and provides the foundations on which the future of our country sits, but with this power comes a concomitant responsibility, and that responsibility rests ultimately with those who motivate, inform and inspire our young people. That is why we must take steps to ensure that our education system is designed to deliver the skills and knowledge that the young people of today will need to succeed tomorrow. The crucial requirement of this is making sure that our teachers—their teachers—are fully equipped to do the job. That is the crux of the matter.
The thinking behind new clause 1 is remarkably simple. At its core, it is inspired by the aspiration for our children and young people to have the best possible start in life, and it is informed by the evidence confirming that good quality early education can have a range of benefits for children’s early development. Research indicates that the benefits of such early education extend beyond the early years and right through primary school, adding further weight to the case for mandating qualifications for early years teachers. For example, the “Effective Provision of Pre-School Education” study has shown that children who attend good-quality childcare settings are, on average, seven months ahead in literacy skills, compared with their peers who did not attend pre-school, when starting school. The development that takes place during those early years is crucial and forms the foundations on which all later learning is built. It is, therefore, essential that we equip early years education staff with the skills that they need to support children’s early development and to ensure that no child falls behind before they even reach primary school.
The ramifications for children who start to fall behind in key areas such as early language development are, too often, lifelong, and they affect not only those children’s educational attainment but their future life chances. We face the sorry reality of knowing that children from disadvantaged backgrounds are much more likely than others to fall behind. One in four children in England arrives at primary school without good early language development, and that figure rises to one in three for children from disadvantaged backgrounds, who, as I have mentioned, start school an average of 15 months behind their peers in language and vocabulary.
I am clear that the only route to resolving that unacceptable situation, and to righting the inequality of opportunity that many children and young people grow up facing, is to level the playing field from the outset. Research shows that a well-qualified, confident and experienced workforce are central to the delivery of childcare that improves outcomes for young children. Indeed, the Department for Education went so far as to recognise in its policy statement on the Bill:
“The main driver of quality in a setting is its workforce.”
If those arguments are not already compelling enough, Ofsted has identified that settings in which at least 75% of practitioners are qualified to level 3 achieve better inspection results. A further analysis of private, voluntary and independent sector settings against Ofsted ratings also found a direct link between graduate-led settings and better Ofsted ratings, which demonstrates that graduate-led settings reduced the quality gap in provision in the least and most deprived areas.
Alex Cunningham
That is a tremendous statistic, but, as the Minister says, there is always room for improvement. It is important that we maintain high quality and that we have continuing professional development for everybody so that they can keep their skills up to date and maintain the outstanding outcomes that he has alluded to.
The analysis shows a gap of 10 percentage points in the quality of childcare provision between non-graduate-led settings in the least and most deprived areas. However, when examining settings led by graduates, the research found almost no difference between the quality of provision in the least and most deprived areas. That is a crucial finding, not least because evidence shows that children who grow up in the most disadvantaged areas are least likely to attend a private, voluntary or independent sector setting with a graduate compared with their peers in better-off areas. To top it off, evaluation of the graduate leader fund adds further evidence to the extensive stock showing that settings that employ a graduate leader improve the quality of provision compared with settings that do not, with the findings confirming that employing an early years graduate is a key way of raising the quality of provision in a childcare setting. Further analysis of the graduate leader fund highlights that settings employing a graduate made significant improvements for pre-school children, not just in overall quality of provision but in other key areas such as child-staff interaction, support for children’s communication, language and literacy development, and supporting reasoning, thinking and scientific skills. The Minister’s last intervention demonstrated that that is very much the case.
It appears to be irrefutable that high-quality childcare has a range of benefits for all children, and for disadvantaged children in particular. What is more, the research also shows that there is added value beyond the school gates in supporting those children’s development, reducing the risk of behavioural issues and even supporting parents in the home. We must recognise the challenges that are likely to be faced in delivering such a commitment. Government figures suggest that 600,000 families will be eligible for the 30-hour offer. Providing sufficient places will clearly pose new challenges for the early years system, and many providers will have to be supported to extend their offer if all eligible parents are to be able to access the 30-hour offer.
Alex Cunningham
I am grateful for the Minister’s clarification. On top of this, we must factor in the need for highly qualified and experienced graduates if we are to deliver the high-quality childcare that we need so much. I bear in mind everything that the Minister said, but 20-odd per cent of providers still do not have any graduate leadership. We need to build on that. On the effectiveness of the expansion—it is an expansion—we are going to need more people in the system. The expansion of free childcare will be dependent on ensuring that there are sufficient numbers of highly qualified and experienced staff to work directly with all three and four-year-olds.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say that there will be an expansion. We welcome that; it is the purpose of the policy. It is also worth stating that although we are doubling the entitlement, we are not necessarily doubling the demand. A number of children in the system are already doing 15-plus hours instead of 30 hours. Therefore, the need that he has identified might not be as great as he thinks it is.
Alex Cunningham
To the best of my knowledge, we have not actually quantified what the total need is. That is one of the reasons we had the debate on clause 1, which has now been ditched by the Committee. We want to review and understand exactly what provision will be needed. I do not think that is particularly clear.
Currently, a significant proportion of practitioners do not hold a level 3 qualification—the minimum recommended by the Nutbrown review. Roughly a third of childminders, 50% of nursery staff and only 13% of staff in private, voluntary and independent settings currently have a graduate level qualification, compared with as many as 40% in maintained settings. I accept that that will take some time to address. I hope new clause 1 reflects that by allowing some flexibility in setting the targets for the proportion of staff in the early years workforce to have that relevant level 3 qualification and in setting the timescale in which the Government will seek to meet those targets. However, at the same time as including measures to enhance standards, we must do more to boost the status of early years teaching to attract the very best, brightest and most able into the profession.
I understand that some 15,962 individuals have achieved early years professional status and early years teacher status. Since the start of early years initial teacher training in September 2013, 3,206 trainees have been trained, of whom 2,358 have graduated and been awarded early years teacher status. Should we not celebrate that? Of course we should, but in 2014-15 only 860 applicants started funded places. That is quite a reduction—1,467 down on the intake of 2,327 applicants in 2013-14, and 1,140 applicants short of the 2,000 target set for 2014-15. I would like to know what the Minister will do about boosting those numbers and meeting his Department’s targets.
Alex Cunningham
I think that people should have the opportunities to start jobs—all sorts of roles—in different ways. I believe very much in that but the Government are making it even more difficult for applicants to come into this role. The reason that we are seeing the fall is largely connected to the debate about pay and the status of early years teachers compared with applicants in programmes granting qualified teacher status.
Childcare workers in England are some of the lowest paid workers in Europe. The average salary of a supervisor in 2011 was just over £16,000 compared with an average of £22,000 in Finland, £23,000 in France and £28,000 in Germany. In private, voluntary and independent settings, non-managerial or supervisory staff are paid, on average, £6.80 an hour in full-day care settings and £8.60 in sessional settings.
Alex Cunningham
I would welcome the new national living wage if it were the actual living wage. It is important to drive up wages across all sectors and I especially welcome it in this particular setting. The evidence suggests that if a setting is graduate led there is an impact on pay. In 2013, in graduate-led settings the average hourly pay of staff in full-day care settings was £8.70, compared with £8.20 in non-graduate-led settings. In sessional settings led by graduates, the average hourly pay was £9.80, compared with £8.20 in non-graduate-led settings. It can be little wonder that low pay is frequently cited as a key challenge to recruiting and retaining graduate-level staff. That makes me fear that more needs to be done to attract new entrants and to retain experienced practitioners.
I hope that the proposals in new clause 1 would allow the Government sufficient leeway to design measures to ensure enough well-qualified and experienced staff to deliver free early education and childcare and to make certain that that is of high quality. I see no reason why the Government should not have sufficient scope to put in place measures that would also offer to support practitioners to work towards a level 3 qualification to increase the number of settings that are graduate led. As I have mentioned, the Department has already recognised in its policy statement on the Bill that the workforce is the main driver of quality. I hope that the Minister will support new clause 1 as the means to optimise such quality and to maximise the opportunities for our children and young people—after all, that is what we are here to talk about.
Mr Gyimah
The debate on the amendment and new clause 1 is important because it concerns the quality in early years education.
As the father of a 20-month-old who is in a full-day care setting, in common with all parents I want my child to be in a safe and secure environment, looked after by people who are well qualified and know what they are doing. I am therefore grateful to the hon. Members for Stockton North, for North West Durham and for Birmingham, Yardley for raising the important issue of the qualifications of the workforce and the impact on the care and early education of the young children involved, including those with special educational needs and disabilities.
The hon. Member for North West Durham has specialist knowledge about provision for disabled children. She most expertly deployed that knowledge and her commitment to ensure that all children should have access to quality care in her role as the co-chair of the parliamentary inquiry into childcare for disabled children.
I support the purpose of the amendments. I agree that the quality of the workforce is a vital ingredient in providing good-quality early education and care to meet the needs of all children, including those with SEN. The experiences of children in childcare settings are shaped by their interactions with staff, so it is critical that staff are suitably qualified and skilled.
I hope that it will be helpful if I set out the existing requirements for staff qualifications under secondary legislation. In recognition of the fact that the qualification levels of staff affect the experiences of children in early education and childcare settings, the early years foundation stage framework sets out minimum qualification levels. Those qualification requirements make up part of the staff-to-child ratios. I have already confirmed on Second Reading and in speeches outside the House that we are not changing ratios or qualification requirements to deliver the 30-hour entitlement.
The qualification level of the early years workforce has risen in recent years. Continuing this increase has been a key aim of the Government’s workforce strategy through the introduction of early years educator qualifications at level 3, and early years initial teacher training. Research tells us that in group day-care settings, 87% of the workforce have a relevant qualification at level 3—that should be welcomed. Indeed, many of the workforce are qualified at graduate level. Since 2007, more than 16,000 individuals have achieved the specialised qualifications of early years professional status and early years teacher status.
Moreover, the inspection framework carried out by Ofsted is clearly focused on children’s outcomes and the quality of teaching and learning in the early years. Providers are showing the arrangements they have in place for staff supervision and professional development that then drive high-quality interactions with children. Ofsted’s new common inspection framework is also bringing more consistency to its inspection approach across early years providers and schools. The latest outcome statistics, at August 2015, show that 85% of providers on the early years register were rated good or outstanding for overall effectiveness.
Alex Cunningham
I hope that this is not out of order, but I have to be elsewhere on Front-Bench duties, so I want to say that I appreciated the explanations given by the Minister in his many interventions during my speech and I do not intend to press new clause 1 to a vote.
Mr Gyimah
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for tabling new clause 1, and I understand that he has other duties. I will carry on setting out our argument on the workforce strategy, which he can follow in Hansard, in his absence.
Despite the good indications of progress so far, we cannot be complacent. For example, members of the sector have told me that some childcare businesses are having difficulty attracting and retaining staff at level 3. I have asked the sector to provide evidence of that, and I am committed to working with them to understand the challenges and to find ways to tackle them while ensuring that a quality workforce remains.
Many comments have been made about why the Department has insisted on GCSE English and maths on exit and about whether that is having an impact on people getting their level 3 qualifications. I see maths and English, the two most important vocational subjects, as a requirement for any job. Functional skills, which the hon. Member for North West Durham specifically asked about, at level 2 do not have the same breadth of content as GCSEs and are sometimes described by awarding bodies as roughly equivalent to half a GCSE, which is why we have taken our position. As I said to the sector, if evidence can be provided that that is having an impact on recruitment, I am willing to consider it. The collaborative approach has already proved successful. Over the summer, I responded to calls from the sector to amend the entry requirements for level 3 courses to enable more trainees to undertake childcare training. I am told by childcare employers that that is helping more staff access training. As Sue Robb, head of early years at 4Children, said:
“We welcome the government’s decision that apprentices can work for their childcare qualifications at the same time as studying for their GCSEs in maths and English. This will encourage more apprentices into childcare and early years.”
I have spoken previously about this, but I want to be clear that I am committed to publishing a workforce strategy that will enable staff to reach their potential and forge a successful career in early years. As my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth South indicated in an intervention, career progression must be the central strand of any workforce strategy, which needs to consider the role of qualifications from entry level to graduate level and on-the-job training in order to attract and retain a good quality workforce. It is not only about getting people in at level 2 or level 3, but about getting the right ladders in place so that they can progress throughout their career.
Chloe Smith
Does the Minister agree that enterprise is an important skill in this blend? After all, this is a major opportunity for not only the maintained sector, but the private, voluntary and independent sectors. There is an opportunity here for young people, or perhaps people who are already qualified, to set up their own business.
Mr Gyimah
My hon. Friend makes an excellent, important point in two respects. First, the new funding route and the associated certainty should make it attractive for new providers to enter the market and deliver childcare for working parents. Secondly, when we look at careers and career progression, we should consider that someone might start at level 2 or level 3 but then eventually start their own nursery or childcare business in another part of the country and deliver for parents. With that in mind, we need to make sure, as we look at the workforce strategy, that the opportunities are there for people to progress, fulfil their potential and realise their aspirations.
The strategy will not only look at apprenticeship qualifications at levels 2 and 3 but consider how we can attract even more graduates into early years. As part of the strategy, I would like to consider how the workforce can access training and support that enables them to offer early education and care to all children, including those with special educational needs. There are already some important requirements in place regarding the individual needs of children.
To make qualification requirements have a real impact on the quality of care that children receive, it is important to make sure that they equip staff with the necessary skills to identify and meet individual needs. That is why the level 3 early years educator criteria, which are set by Government, require that trainees learn how to assess and meet needs.
The teacher standards also require early years teachers to have those skills. Early years teachers must demonstrate a clear understanding of the needs of all children, including those with special educational needs and disabilities, and be able to use and evaluate distinctive approaches to engage and support them. New apprenticeship standards being developed by a group of childcare employers will also take into consideration the knowledge and skills necessary to support children with special educational needs and disabilities.
Inspection obviously plays a crucial role by focusing on outcomes and reviewing how children in settings have made progress. It requires settings to demonstrate how they have assessed and met the needs of children, including those with special educational needs and disabilities. That is a powerful incentive for providers to ensure that staff meet the needs of those children and meet all the requirements placed on them through secondary legislation.
Under the EYFS framework, all children are to be allocated a key person to assess and meet their needs. In addition, the “Special educational needs and disability code of practice: 0 to 25 years” sets out clear expectations on educational institutions, including early years providers, for identifying and supporting children with SEND. The code sets out a graduated approach, which involves seeking specialist advice and intervention where appropriate.
To ensure that providers and local authorities are equipped to deliver the expectations of the new code of practice, we are funding a number of projects to better equip the early years workforce to support children with SEND. They include the National Day Nurseries Association, which will build on local systems for self-improvement through SEND champions and the excellent Pen Green centre. That centre supports a model of peer-to-peer training to help practitioners gain the knowledge and skills that they need to support children’s needs.
Funding provided to support partnerships between teaching schools and private, voluntary and independent sector providers has also enabled some good practice in supporting children with SEND. For example, Tor View school, a specialist learning community in east Lancashire, is leading a project that is helping PVI sector providers in disadvantaged areas of Burnley and Rossendale improve their support for children with SEND. SEND specialists have worked with staff so that they can more confidently identify SEND issues and provide support for children and their families.
In some cases, it will be necessary for staff to undertake specific training to support a disabled child in their care. In such circumstances, a childcare provider can ask their local authority for funding to support such training. As the individual needs of children may differ greatly, I do not think it is appropriate to set out qualification requirements for all staff working with disabled children. The Government support a personalised approach to meeting children’s needs, whereby providers, in partnership with their local authority, determine what support is needed and how it will be accessed for each individual child.
A number of other points have been raised, for example on having more graduates in the sector. For clarification, the EYFS framework is clear that trained graduates can lead settings and utilise a 1:13 ratio in doing so.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady asks a good question. As I have outlined, the staff to child ratios in the EYFS framework will not change between the first and second 15 hours. Nor will qualifications or space requirements. I hope that the plans I have set out and the commitments I have made to develop and publish a workforce strategy that considers career progression routes, on-the-job training, how we can attract more graduates into the sector and support for staff in meeting the individual needs of children, will reassure hon. Members that the Government share their view that a well qualified workforce is vital. In view of that, I hope that the hon. Member for North West Durham will feel reassured enough to withdraw her amendment.
Pat Glass
I welcome the Minister’s assurance. The thinking behind the amendments was that there are clear links between qualified, well trained staff and good outcomes. That is recognised, not least by Ofsted. There is a shortage of qualified support staff under the current provisions, and providers tell us that they are not in a position to recruit—they are struggling to recruit even for the existing 15 hours. We therefore have concerns about how that will be carried forward into the expansion of the system.
I welcome the Minister’s assurance that if the requirement of a GCSE in maths and English on exit is causing disruption in recruitment—
Pat Glass
There appears to be evidence of that at the moment, so I welcome his assurance that he will look at that again. I was disappointed to hear him say that some awarding bodies are saying that functional skills are equal to half a GCSE. I have not heard that. They certainly did not give that evidence to the Education Committee when we looked at the matter in some detail. Providers and awarding bodies said that functional skills are different—more pragmatic in the workplace, but not easier. That was the evidence given to the Education Committee, on which we made recommendations. We are not looking to dumb down in any way, but given that we face expansion and that we are struggling to recruit qualified level 3 support staff, the Government should examine that.
As the Minister said, well trained staff are particularly important in the case of disabled children, which is the thinking behind amendment 11—we would never allow unqualified or untrained staff to work with children with disabilities in schools. Parents are telling us that part of the problem is that they cannot access the current 15 hours’ provision, and if that is the case, we need to explore that.
I heard what the Minister said about the excellent Pen Green nursery. It would be wonderful if we could reproduce Margy, her staff and Pen Green across every one of our constituencies. I strongly urge hon. Members to have a look at it, because they will want it in their constituencies.
I understand that qualifications are not the same as appropriate qualifications, which are not the same as training. They are different things. One issue I had with the Government’s policy in the previous Parliament on unqualified staff in free schools was that, although I would have qualified to teach mathematics because I have an MSc, it was not until I did a BEd that I understood things such as child development; identifying, assessing, helping and intervening with SEN; and managing behaviour. Those are the kinds of things that come through qualifications. People learn to differentiate in the curriculum and deliver a curriculum across the range of ability. They learn the science of learning, pedagogy and, almost more importantly, credibility. If a teacher does not have credibility with the parents, their colleagues and, more importantly—particularly if they are teaching in a secondary school—the children, they will quickly be sussed out. That is about not just having qualifications, but having the appropriate qualifications and training. Given that the Minister has offered to work with me in looking at how we can help more disabled families access childcare—presumably that offer also includes looking at the qualifications and training needed to enable them to do that—I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(Margot James.)
Oral Answers to Questions
Sam Gyimah Excerpts(8 years, 12 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East) (Ind)
6. What recent assessment she has made of the effect of the abolition of the education maintenance allowance on educational participation and attainment inequality.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Mr Sam Gyimah)
The purpose of the education maintenance allowance was to raise educational participation. Our reforms, including targeted routes to employment for all 16 to 19-year-olds and the creation of 3 million apprenticeships, deliver far higher participation and attainment than EMA on its own ever did.
Natalie McGarry
In Scotland, EMA provides a lifeline of support for talented young people from a low-income background to give them access to decent opportunities. In England, EMA has been yet another casualty of the Government’s austerity obsession. Why has the Minister not followed the lead of the Scottish Government, who have not only retained EMA support but from January will expand that key support to an additional 12,000 students in Scotland?
Mr Gyimah
I thank the hon. Lady for her question and congratulate her on her recent engagement to a Conservative councillor. I did not think such things were possible, but they are yet another reminder that there are ways in which we are better together.
I draw the hon. Lady’s attention to the point made by the Scottish Education Minister on narrowing the gap: children from the 20% most deprived areas in Scotland are seven times less likely to attain three A grades in their highers than their most affluent peers. There are no lessons that we can take from Scotland on narrowing the gap.
Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)
Of course in Scotland, when we put together our figures on further and higher education and compare them with figures put together on further and higher education in England, we see that Scotland is leading.
As a teacher, I am only too aware of how important EMA is for keeping talented young people not in apprenticeships but in education, so what steps has the Minister taken to ensure that youngsters from disadvantaged backgrounds can continue to access further and higher education?
Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Con)
9. What plans the Government has to improve attendance in schools.
Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con)
11. What steps the Government is taking to give parents a greater say in access to holiday and wrap-around care.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Mr Sam Gyimah)
Childcare is the key issue for many parents, not just for under-fives, but for all children. That is why my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State announced in October that parents will be granted a new right to request wrap-around or holiday childcare at their school. Childcare providers will also be given the right to request the use of school sites outside school hours to provide this care.
Mike Wood
Flexibility is key in the provision of childcare, for both school-age and pre-school children. Can the Minister assure my constituents that, as the Government extend childcare provision, they will allow for greater flexibility over things such as drop-off and pick-up times?
Mr Gyimah
The autumn statement set out the record levels of funding available to deliver our pledge of 30 hours of free childcare. As working fathers, my hon. Friend and I know that it is not just about the money; it is about flexible childcare available when it is needed. We will be consulting in the new year on ways to deliver that.
Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab)
Has anyone told Westminster City Council of the Government’s intention to increase choice in school-age childcare? The council has just announced an end to all funding for the play service, which provides its after-school care for primary school-age children. It offered this to schools and, the last time I asked, only one school had agreed to take on the service because of the pressure on school budgets. Is it not the case that, in places such as Westminster, it is essential that working parents have the opportunity of decent after-school childcare, but that that is in retreat, not in advance?
Mr Gyimah
That is precisely the purpose behind the announcement that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State made. Where schools cannot deliver wrap-around care themselves, they can work with private and voluntary providers to use their site to deliver that wrap-around care. This change will set a new expectation for schools to follow through on it.
Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)
Questions about childcare—wrap-around, flexible childcare and childcare during school holidays—are particularly opportune. Before the election in May, the Minister told us that Labour’s 25 hours of free childcare would cost £1.2 billion. The independent Institute for Public Policy Research has said that the Government’s 30 hours will cost £1.6 billion. Last week, the Chancellor told us that he was setting aside just over £600,000 for this, which leaves a shortfall of almost £1 billion annually. Will that come from quality, will it come from ratios or will it come from both?
Mr Gyimah
It was impossible for the IPPR to know how much the Government’s policy would cost before it knew the eligibility criteria for the new entitlement. The Chancellor announced the eligibility criteria at the autumn statement and made it clear that there is record investment going into childcare—£1 billion in 2019-20. That is something we should all be proud of.
John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab)
12. What discussions she has had with the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government on the potential contribution by city regions to developing educational provision.
Sir Simon Burns (Chelmsford) (Con)
T7. When considering the review of schools funding, will my hon. Friend ensure that it addresses the problem that has arisen in recent years with the underfunding of the two grammar schools in Chelmsford and other grammar schools in Essex? It seems particularly unfair that they should suffer in the way they have from the current funding formula.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Mr Sam Gyimah)
As my right hon. Friend is aware, we have protected the core schools budget in real terms, and we intend to make the school funding formula fairer. I can assure him that King Edward VI grammar school and Chelmsford County high school for girls will receive funding that reflects their pupils’ needs transparently and fairly.
Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
On Friday, I had a meeting with the Glasgow English for Speakers of Other Languages Forum, whose funding is under pressure at a time when demand is increasing. Will the Secretary of State tell us whether any funds from the refugee resettlement programme will be made available for ESOL? Generally, what steps is she taking to promote ESOL as a means of cultural understanding?
Dr Tania Mathias (Twickenham) (Con)
T8. Constituencies such as mine have an increasing need for school places and for new schools, but a lack of suitable sites for new schools. Will the Minister visit Twickenham with me to see what more the Government can do to help local authorities find suitable sites for schools in places such as mine?
Mr Gyimah
As the Secretary of State said at last week’s London education conference, we recognise just how challenging affordable sites and buildings are in our capital. We will work with local authorities to support our dedicated property team in the Education Funding Agency by identifying any potential sites. When it comes to school buildings and repairs, the Government are creating places and fixing the school roof while the sun is shining. I will of course be happy to meet my hon. Friend.
Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab)
Following last week’s devastating report from the Children’s Commissioner about 450,000 children being sexually abused in the past two years, does the Secretary of State still disagree with me and, now, with the Children’s Commissioner that healthy relationships education should be compulsory in all of our schools?
James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con)
Many headteachers in my constituency are reporting an increased prevalence of mental health problems among young people in schools. Does the Secretary of State agree that we need better integration between schools and child and adolescent mental health services to deal with that growing problem?
Mr Gyimah
My hon. Friend is a passionate campaigner on mental health issues. He will be aware that we have funded a £1.5 million joint pilot with the Department of Health on a single point of contact between schools and CAMHS, so that parents do not have to go through the aggravation of trying to work out how to access those vital services to support their children.
Childcare Bill [Lords]
Sam Gyimah Excerpts(9 years ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lucy Powell
With respect, neither has the hon. and learned Lady seen the review, and she misunderstands the nature of the market. The hourly rate that is paid to nurseries via local authorities is not a cap on the cost of the childcare but a cap on the amount that the nursery can claim. The true cost of the childcare, as we have heard, is significantly more. In places like Islington, the true cost of the childcare provided can often be as high as £9 an hour. In the case of nurseries in my constituency, it can be considerably higher than the hourly rate, which I understand has gone up by 30p. Therefore, the private providers cross-subsidise from the free offer that they make to parents, with paying hours that other parents pay for. The hon. and learned Lady may well look puzzled. I know a considerable amount about this topic, having been the shadow childcare spokesperson for two years, so she can have a debate with me if she likes.
I do not need to see what has been put in the Library to know that there are major problems with the childcare market, even if the hourly rate is increased by 30p, and even if the early years pupil premium is used to cross-subsidise, taking money from elsewhere.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Mr Sam Gyimah)
The cost of childcare review that was undertaken by the Department over a period of six months had 2,000 responses, including from all the sector representatives. The hourly rates that have been announced today reflect the data that were given to us by the sector, including the profit and loss accounts of providers. I would encourage the hon. Lady to look at that before criticising the rates that have been announced.
Lucy Powell
Of course I will look at it. Perhaps next time we are having a Second Reading debate where funding is so critical, Ministers might care to let Opposition Front Benchers have sight of such important information before we embark on it. As the Minister knows, there remain key issues about the ability of the vast majority of providers in the sector, who are private and voluntary providers, to deliver these free hours, notwithstanding the challenges that remain for schools.
Emily Thornberry
Reference has been made to the cost of childcare review, and we have been told that 6,000 people have put in for it. It has 184 pages. We know that it is yet to be found in the Library, because people are burrowing away there looking for it.
Emily Thornberry
Yes, but it is taking a certain amount of time to print it off. Therefore, we have not been able to look at it in advance of this debate, nor even during the debate. In those circumstances, my hon. Friend presumably agrees that it really is a farce having this Second Reading debate now.
Lucy Powell
I do of course agree with my hon. Friend, who makes a very good point. This is all regardless of the fact that this policy still has a considerable funding shortfall, even under the new hourly rates, as the Minister himself has said. When Labour announced before the last election that we were seeking to increase the number of free hours from 15 to 25, he said that that policy would cost £1.2 billion. That is far greater than the funding allocation that the Government have put forward for an additional five hours a week. There are big funding gaps that they have yet to address, regardless of the hourly rate being paid and the information that has been put in the Library.
House of Commons Library analysis has shown that there are over 44,000 fewer early years childcare places today than there were in 2009. In addition, six in 10 local authorities tell us that they do not have an adequate supply of childcare for local parents. There is a downward trend in childcare places that should cause concern. As I said, private and voluntary providers make up the vast majority of childcare places in England. If there is not adequate resource for these nurseries, they will simply not offer the 30 hours, leading to a reduction in choice for parents. I welcome the increase in the hourly rate, but questions remain about how many new places will be provided. Without an increase in supply, costs will continue to rise for parents.
Parents will also be very concerned that the quality of childcare could be damaged by the Government’s failure to adequately support their proposals. A wealth of evidence from the Education Committee and Ofsted clearly identifies strong links between outstanding provision and the best qualified staff. Poor childcare is worse than no childcare, as the Committee reported, and can be detrimental to a child’s development. I am very concerned that unless the Government have answers on adequate funding, the result will be a diminution in quality provision. Can the Secretary of State give a commitment today that, beneath the proposals and those outlined in today’s autumn statement, there are no plans to reduce quality, to increase ratios or to lower requirements for those who can offer the free entitlement? In summary, insufficient funds and poor delivery could have the opposite effect to what the Government want and lead to fewer places, poorer quality and higher cost for parents.
The Government have ample time to address those concerns before their policy is due to be introduced in autumn 2017. We want to work with Ministers to ensure that their plans are credible and affordable and meet the tests we have set out. Part of the problem is that the Government have no clear strategy for childcare. I hope the Education Secretary will reflect on that and come back to this House in due course with an overarching childcare strategy. [Interruption.] Would the Under-Secretary of State for Education, the hon. Member for East Surrey (Mr Gyimah) like to intervene?
Lucy Powell
I would be happy if the hon. Gentleman had a childcare strategy; this is a very complex market that could do with a proper strategy.
We will continue to support the progress of this Bill through Parliament, but it is the Secretary of State’s responsibility to satisfy this House and the other place—and, indeed, parents—that the plan for childcare is deliverable, sustainable and affordable. To make the policy work, she must set out her funding plans and reassure us throughout the passage of the Bill. Other questions also remain unanswered. For example, who will be liable to prove that parents are working and are on sufficient hours, and how will disabled children be supported by the Bill?
I want this policy to work. I want it to be a success, to have real meaning for parents and to ensure that children are supported to achieve a great start in life. I look forward to working on it with the Education Secretary, and I recommend that we support the Bill this evening.
Tristram Hunt
I do know that fact, but if I were an SNP representative I would certainly not defend its role in further education. The SNP has supported higher education at the expense of further education, hammering the poor. I am being dragged away, however, from the Second Reading of the Childcare Bill.
As the shadow Secretary of State suggested, we can all welcome the Government’s policy of extending free childcare for three and four-year-olds to 30 hours a week for working families. This builds on the Labour party offer at the last general election of 25 hours of free childcare, which we were told was unaffordable and could never be delivered. More importantly, it builds on decades of work by hon. Members on both sides of the House in making the case. Any legislation that aims to tackle the childcare crisis, to increase maternal rates of employment and to generate long-term growth has to be welcomed, but over the last five years the Government have made it much harder for parents to find the childcare hours they need. Compared with 2010, there are more than 40,000 fewer childcare places, and six in 10 councils report that they do not have enough childcare available for working families—not least in Oxfordshire, where I know the Prime Minister is leading the anti-austerity movement.
At the same time, childcare prices are crippling families that are already under pressure with parents spending more than £1,300 extra on childcare than they did in 2010. In Stoke-on-Trent, costs have increased by almost 73%, so anything that attempts to redress those impacts on families is to be welcomed. The question, I think, is how it is to be funded.
I welcome the Chancellor’s announcements today of the £300 million of additional funding for the scheme to increase the hourly rate childcare providers will receive, once this measure is introduced from 2017-18, alongside the £50 million of capital investment to create additional places in nurseries to be brought in from the same year. As my hon. Friend the Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) will explore in her incisive speech, however, the figures do not quite add up. We can reflect again on the irony that we were told during the election campaign that 25 hours was wholly unrealistic and could not be done, while the Government have now come up with some completely different figures. I am sure Chairman Mao would have had a witty aphorism about that.
This ignores the massive childcare places crisis that is hitting the sector now. As the shadow Secretary of State suggested, the Government’s free childcare policy is already vastly behind schedule. Today, Ofsted is announcing an 11,000 fall this year in the number of childcare places provided by nurseries. We are actually seeing a drop in the course of this year, which is leading to many providers having to close, resulting in a further shortage of places. In my own Stoke-on-Trent constituency, there are 74 fewer registered providers than in 2009, which is evidence that the underlying infrastructure needed to deliver the Government’s announcements today is creaking to breaking-point.
The Institute for Public Policy Research has warned in its recent report on the Bill’s implementation that if more childcare providers close it will drive down childcare quality, with poorer outcomes for children and less choice for parents as the market shrinks. In the face of increasing demand and decreasing provision, it is likely that the Government will have to deregulate childcare or weaken childcare ratios—we can go back to that old debate—to make the plan sustainable.
Tristram Hunt
I am delighted that this is probably the third or fourth U-turn of the day—it is hard to keep up—but it is important, when we think about this question, to focus on not only the economics, but the quality of early years provision. As the shadow Secretary of State said, there is strong evidence for a link between a judgment of “outstanding” for childcare provision and the presence of better qualified staff. It is vital that practitioners and settings are appropriately funded.
The Education Committee clearly set out in its excellent report that poor childcare is worse than none and can be detrimental to a child’s development. It is always a depressing moment when one sees young women—it is usually women—who struggle with their own educational attainment working with young children from disadvantaged backgrounds. All the challenges in oracy and early childhood development show that high quality of provision is essential.
Mr Gyimah
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that we are doubling the entitlement, but not necessarily the demand? Many parents already buy more than 15 hours, which is the current free entitlement, of childcare. The policy changes who pays for it. All the scaremongering about reduction in quality does not stack up.
Tristram Hunt
I am arguing not about reduction in quality, but for an improvement in it. I understand the point about doubling the provision, but when there is such ingrained inequality in our society and such disadvantage in so many communities, surely the quality of provision needs to improve.
We know that investment in the early years is about more than just announcing more childcare. The Government have repeatedly ignored, cut and deprioritised a huge part of the infrastructure for early years education. Time and again, children’s centres, a huge part of this country’s early years architecture, have come under assault from the Government. The previous Labour Government tried to make Sure Start centres and early years an essential part of the welfare state. This Government’s ambition to dismantle the welfare state means stripping away one of the elements that are such a civilising part of our society, with more and more centres being forced to close and drastically cut back their services owing to inadequate funding.
There were no announcements today for funding for children’s centres or support for the early intervention grant. According to the Children’s Society, when the early intervention grant, which funds children’s centres, was introduced, its total value was around £3.2 billion in today’s prices. However, by 2015, the value of the grant has been more than halved to around £1.4 billion. By the end of 2015-16, the allocation provided to local authorities through the revenue support grant will have been cumulatively reduced by £6.8 billion compared with funding for comparator services before the Budget in 2010.
Overall, local authorities in England reduced spending on children’s centres and young people’s and family support services by some £718 million in real terms between 2010-11 and 2014-15. That amounts to cumulative spending reductions of more than £1.5 billion. With local authority budgets coming under extra pressure, the outlook for children’s centres is bleak.
The Government do not like this figure, but over the past five years more than 700 centres have been closed. We know that effective early intervention does not begin at the age of three, but with antenatal classes, drop-in health clinics and open access provision. It begins with teaching parents the importance of bonding and attachment. If anything, those first years of a child’s life are the most important for child development. The more we discover about neurological development and the growth of the brain in those early months and years, the more startling it is that the Government have piled on the cuts for the earliest years. They are not serious about tackling disadvantage and inequality. If they were, they would not be making all the cuts in that area. It is no wonder that great charities like Teach First say that poor kids do worse under this Government, and it is no wonder that we see the effects of that in our education system. The Government’s record on protecting the architecture and delivery of early-years education over the past five years is wholly lamentable.
The Labour Government protected the entire education budget, including the crucial early intervention grants that were part of our election promise. This Government protected only schools. Today’s announcement about sixth-form and further education is welcome, but it really means an 8% cut in those budgets over the coming five years. Despite the global financial crash, and with the help of the Sure Start architecture, we slashed child poverty by 900,000 during our time in office. That is what Labour Governments do: that is what progressive Governments do. On the basis of the latest figures from the Resolution Foundation, we know that we shall see child poverty rocket under this Government. Time and again, the early years have been deprioritised.
Labour Members have an enduring commitment to the emancipatory power of early-years education. We believe that it is the most effective way of narrowing the achievement gap so that no children are left behind when they take their first steps inside a reception classroom. We are—I am—supportive of working families—
Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)
Providing more free childcare for working parents was supposed to be an easy win for the Government. There should be nothing difficult or controversial about it, given the level of support in the country for it in principle and the amount of support the Government would have in this House for it in principle. The Government, however, seem to have somehow made an extraordinary mess of the Bill. In fact, I cannot remember another occasion when a proposal that was so warmly received in principle produced a Bill that was so comprehensively rubbished by everybody who set eyes on it. There are so many questions in relation to it. The defence of the Bill we have heard today is high on rhetoric, but what we want is reality. We do not want fiction. The problem is not a lack of enthusiasm for the Bill in principle. The trouble is that, as my nan used to say, warm words butter no parsnips.
Surely the most important place to start is this: how is it going to be paid for? I am not an expert, but I have been looking at the Blue Book published today and asking some obvious questions. If the amount spent per child from September 2017 will be £5,000—if I am wrong about this, perhaps the Minister could please interrupt me—and we are talking about term-time only working, so 38 weeks a year, then 30 hours multiplied by 38 is 1,140 hours. On the face of it, that means £4.38 per hour will be spent on childcare. I have already explained to the Minister that the average price of childcare in Islington is £9.40 per hour. I am then told that I am wrong, the figures are pooh-poohed, or there seems to be some suggestion that not all the money has been put into the frontline, as if the head of my early years is upholstering her three-piece suites in mink, but that is just the price of education for three and four-year-olds in Islington. The prices are high as they are—it is just a fact.
Then I am referred to a cost of childcare review, which I am told is in the Library but it is not. I send people off to have a look in the Library and they ask around but nobody can find it. Then I am told it is online and that it consists of 184 pages, but I have not got all of them. I have got the ones I could and they total 59 pages. I have therefore had 59 of 184 pages during this debate. I am told that 6,000 organisations have contributed to this review, but I have nothing from any of them. I would like to read this sort of thing, because I take this seriously.
Emily Thornberry
Let me give the hon. Gentleman my view, which, again, is based on experience from my constituency. What happens is that the free entitlement is given to parents and a deal is done, whereby they get their free 15-hour entitlement and then they have to pay over the odds to be able to—[Interruption.] He shakes his head but I am telling him that this is what happens. Parents have to pay over the odds for the additional hours or they pay more money for meals; somehow or other this money is raked back to nursery providers, because they simply cannot provide the childcare at the level currently provided for. He has asked me a question, so I will ask him one, and I wonder whether he will be able to help me with it.
As I understand it, at the moment my local authority gets £4.84 per hour for three and four-year-olds, which is much less than the average charged of £9.40 per hour. If the new national rate announced today with such fanfare is introduced, will Islington actually be getting a cut and will our rate be going down to £4.35 per hour?
Mr Gyimah
As the Secretary of State said in her opening speech, as part of announcing this rate we will be introducing an early years national funding formula, which will seek to ensure that the early years funding is allocated on the basis of need, rather than historical circumstances. Some local authorities get quite a lot of money whereas others get less. We will be looking to make sure that all local authorities are treated fairly.
Emily Thornberry
Again, that sounds great, but it does not make any sense. Does it mean that my local authority will get a cut in its rate or not? If the hon. Gentleman knows, he may intervene on me again, because this is important. As I say, if Islington is going to get a cut in its rate to £4.35 per hour for it to provide places for nursery school children—three and four-year-olds—when the average price in Islington is £9.40 an hour, this is extremely bad news for Islington.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady is throwing out lots of numbers, but nobody has mentioned the £4.35 she has just thrown out there. To answer her question, we have said that we will consult local authorities in order to design the early years national funding formula. Part of that consultation will be about recognising how authorities such as Islington are funded and making the appropriate decisions then. She can contribute to that consultation, as can every other local authority in the country.
Emily Thornberry
I would be interested to know whether the Minister regrets producing the document entitled “Cost of delivering the early education entitlement” halfway through the debate rather than earlier, if it was produced some time ago. He knows that one problem throughout the passage of the Bill in the Lords was that people criticised the fact that it was a cut-and-paste job from the Tory party manifesto put in a four-page Bill and that it has had no detail. The reason the Government have been getting into trouble is that everyone has been saying, “Where is the detail? Where is the plan? How much money are we getting?” And when the Bill finally reaches this place, keen people like me get a copy of half of this document halfway through the debate.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. I am sorry. You are winding up the debate, so you will have a chance to come back to the hon. Lady, but I am sure that she will give way, as she has been very generous so far. At this moment though she has given way to Helen Goodman.
Emily Thornberry
The point is—[Interruption.] I am just pointing out that the Blue Book refers to
“a minimum weekly income level per parent equivalent to 16 hours (worked at the national living wage)”.
A parent could be working 16 hours at the national minimum wage, but still not get free childcare. That is as I understand it, but we are not in Government. We are involved in scrutiny.
Mr Gyimah
The eligibility will be checked by HMRC, and it will be based on the actual income earned, so at 16 hours on the national living wage, someone would have to earn £107 a week in order to qualify for 30 hours of free childcare. In addition to the 30 hours of free childcare, that person may get other support such as the childcare element of tax credits or tax-free childcare. This is an incredibly generous offer, but that is not what the hon. Lady is suggesting.
Emily Thornberry
Is the Minister therefore saying that people do not need to be earning a minimum weekly income at the national living wage, because tax credits would make it up? Or is he saying that people have to get an income equivalent to 16 hours worked at the national living wage, and then they will get tax credits and the 30 hours? These are important questions. This Bill has already been in the Lords. We are now in the Commons. It is important for us to understand the Bill.
We are not against childcare, as some have suggested. We are absolutely in favour of childcare, but we would like it to be funded properly so that people get proper access to it, and that includes my single mothers from the Market estate who may be working only a few hours at the moment, but who would like to have additional childcare available to them so that they can look for other jobs, because if Asda will not increase their hours, they will try to find a job somewhere else. They need childcare if they have three and four-year-olds so that they have some time to fill in their CVs, and go to Jobcentre Plus to get the assistance they need to work further hours. I hope that the Minister understands that.
Mr Gyimah
The answer to the hon. Lady’s question is simple: a lone parent would have to earn £107 a week to qualify for 30 hours of childcare. Eligibility is judged not on hours but on someone’s earnings, because HMRC can monitor earnings, not the hours that people work. If someone earns £107 in half a day that gets them 30 hours of childcare, and if someone earns that in a week they still receive those 30 hours of childcare.
Emily Thornberry
Therefore, someone who works 16 hours on the national minimum wage will not get 30 hours of childcare a week. That is an important point, and I am grateful to the Minister for clarifying it. That message needs to go out if we are talking about fairness. No wonder the end of paragraph 2.61 of the Blue Book states that this measure
“will save £215 million by 2020.”
If we are talking about fairness, opportunity, and ensuring that women are able to go to work, I am concerned about the changes being made.
Emily Thornberry
I am grateful to the Minister for making that clearer. Over the next few days I am sure that many more questions will be asked and many more answers given, and we will get a better understanding of exactly what the country is being offered.
On Second Reading in the other place, the Bill was repeatedly described as a “skeleton” piece of legislation—well, absolutely. Lord Touhig went a step further and called it a “missing Bill”. Their criticisms were well summarised by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, which in a scathing report observed:
“While the Bill may contain a legislative framework, it contains virtually nothing of substance beyond the vague ‘mission statement’ in clause 1”.
As I was saying, it is a cut and paste job from the Tory party manifesto. The job of the Lords is to scrutinise legislation, as is our job in this Chamber. How can we do that if we do not get a plan or a proper understanding of what the funding will be?
I come to this issue blinking into the light after the Welfare Reform and Work Bill Committee. I became concerned about this issue because, as I am sure the Minister knows, mothers with three and four-year-olds will be forced to look for work on the understanding that adequate childcare will be available for them. Given what the Minister has just said, 15 hours of childcare may be available to them whether they work or not when their children are three and four, but they will need to work additional hours, or earn the amount that the Minister indicated, to receive the full 30 hours.
We are talking about getting women with three and four-year-olds into work, and the other problem that struck me is the obvious point that this is just about term-time working. We are asking the question that single mothers and parents ask all the time: what are people going to do in the summer? For 38 weeks people may get 30 hours’ childcare, but how do they cover the summer period if they are doing low-level work and do not earn a great deal? If they do not accept a job, they could be sanctioned or receive a penalty because they will not be working properly.
In the Welfare Reform and Work Committee we tabled an amendment to say that women should not be forced to look for work when they have three and four-year-olds unless adequate childcare is available. As I explained, if the Government are so confident that adequate childcare will be available for working women, surely they would not vote against that amendment, but they did. That is what has brought me to be so concerned about this Bill, which impacts on the lives of women in whatever department. I am a shadow Work and Pensions Minister, and if the Minister is able to introduce a proper Bill that will support women and their children and help women get into work, that will have an impact across the piece, as I am sure he appreciates.
The House of Lords has said that the Bill contains virtually nothing of substance beyond the vague mission statement in clause 1. In other words, the Bill has almost nothing more to say than the Conservative party manifesto. Clearly, the Government like the idea of doubling working parents’ free childcare entitlement; they just have not worked out exactly how to do it. They might as well have written a Bill saying that the land would flow with milk and honey—we would all agree with that.
Perhaps inevitably, the most glaring admission involves the cost of the free childcare extension, about which we have heard a little today. That seems to raise more questions than it answers. If the level of payment is such as to be less than half the amount that childcare costs in my constituency, there are obvious questions in relation to that. As everyone speaking in this debate is likely to know, childcare does not come cheap, and it rarely, if ever, comes free. Costs have been rising dramatically in the past five years to the point where families in England pay more for childcare than in any other country in Europe apart from Switzerland.
The average cost of part-time childcare for two children under primary school age now exceeds the cost of the average mortgage. Given the spiralling housing costs that this Government have presided over, that is quite an achievement. In my constituency, the cost of a part-time nursery placement of 25 hours a week has risen by 183% since 2010. At an average of £235 a week, childcare costs in Islington are the highest of any local authority in England apart from Kensington and Chelsea. Imagine if someone has two children—how are they going to be able to work? While existing support for childcare costs may be a helpful contribution, it has not solved the problem of a large number of working parents.
The Government say that the Bill doubles for working parents the free 15 hours already available to all parents of three and four-year-olds, but there is no such thing as a free lunch, and, in many ways, no such thing as free childcare. As is well known, the free 15 hours are chronically underfunded as it is. There is no legal obligation on any childcare provider to provide them to any parent, and according to a survey by Citizens Advice, a quarter of them do not. The Minister should be concerned about this. We are concerned about it, and working mothers are concerned about it. Those that do provide it will find themselves faced with a conundrum. The significant shortfall between providers’ reimbursement rate and their actual costs means that somehow a way has to be found to square the circle. The options are limited, and none of them is good. Either the cost of the extra hours will rise, new charges will be added for hidden costs such as activities, pencils, books or whatever, or the supposedly free hours will come with so many strings attached as to prohibit most parents from being able to use them.
It is not at all uncommon for parents to be told that they can access their 15 hours free entitlement but only if they pay more for additional hours on top. For working parents with up to 50 hours’ childcare a week, taking into account the early drop-off and late pick-up, the 15 hours may be free but then there is the additional charge for the 35 hours that are supposed to be provided at much higher levels. With fees at the level that they are in my constituency, this means that even with the free hours, families face annual childcare costs in excess of £20,000 a year—and that is for one child. Let me tell Ministers that not many single parents on the Market estate in Islington have that kind of money lying around. The idea of doubling the entitlement to free childcare without addressing the underlying funding gap is simply out of touch with the reality of the lives of people whom I represent, and we all represent.
The IPPR, in a report published last month that has already been quoted, but which I will quote again, described the Government’s estimate of the costs of free childcare extension as
“inexplicably low compared to other estimates, as well as to current funding.”
It concluded:
“The Government’s drastic underfunding gives rise to concerns that the hourly rates that it will give to providers to deliver this care will be too low, resulting in falling quality, poorer outcomes for children and less choice for parents as the market shrinks.”
As recently as this summer, when the Bill was introduced in the other place, the Government were maintaining the ludicrous fiction that the extension could cost no more than £365 million. It is right for Labour Members to say clearly that that is not right. To a certain extent, I am pleased that we have had a little bit of an answer today with the extra £300, but frankly it is still not enough, and the Minister knows it. He, as I understand it, endorsed what the original childcare Minister, the hon. Member for East Surrey, said when the Government were costing the amount, and we were saying what we wanted to do—[Interruption.] I am so sorry—I did not realise that the Minister is the hon. Member for East Surrey. I do apologise. He will remember saying that Labour’s pledge to extend free childcare for three and four-year-olds to 25 hours would cost £1.6 billon. I am so sorry that I did not realise that it was he who said that, but I am sure he remembers saying it. He is not providing £1.6 billion for 30 hours’ childcare for three and four-year-olds, so how can it work, particularly when the costs of childcare continue to go up? Childcare is so expensive in areas such as mine. I accept that my constituency has a large number of single parents who are not working and who find it extremely difficult to find work, but one of the major reasons for that is the cost of childcare.
I want to support this Bill. I want it to help the single mothers on the Market estate, but I just do not believe it will. I will vote for it—I am not going to vote against it—but it is not as though my criticisms have not already been raised in the House of Lords. They were raised in another place at great length and by people who are much more articulate and much better informed than I am. Indeed, concerns continue to be raised, but what happened today? Halfway through the debate, we got the report. I have only half of it and my copy is still warm because it had to be printed off a computer, so I apologise that I have not had a chance to scrutinise it in depth.
When this Bill came here from the other place, the major criticism of it was that the funding was inadequate and that there was no adequate explanation of how it would be viable. To produce a document that we have to print off a computer in the middle of a debate is not democracy; it does not give us an opportunity to scrutinise what the Government do. The Government should not behave with the arrogance of a Government who have a majority of 120. Their majority is 12, and Bills such as this should have complete cross-party support. We should all be able to work together and not go away with a feeling that the Government are playing games, but I fear that that is what they are doing. It was not necessary to produce the report halfway through the Second Reading debate.
Emily Thornberry
I assure the hon. Gentleman that it was produced halfway through. We sent people to the Library to look for it. It eventually appeared on the internet and attempts have been made to print it out. The process should not be some sort of marathon. If the report had been produced yesterday, we would all have sat down and read it overnight. I am sure my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester Central (Lucy Powell) would have read all of it, even if I had not. We would then have had an opportunity to scrutinise the Bill properly. Given that the criticism throughout has been of inadequate funding and a lack of clarity on that funding, the situation is disappointing, to say the very least.
I think I have made my point. I am not an expert on the subject, but I am concerned about the inadequate amount of childcare that will be produced on time, before single mothers of three and four-year-olds are forced to look for work. I am very concerned that there will not be sufficient childcare, that it will be available only during term time, that it will not be sufficiently flexible and that it is not sufficiently funded. I am particularly concerned about the process we have indulged in on the Bill. It has already been discussed in the other place, but the details we have been given are still inadequate. I am very disappointed.
Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)
This has been a really good debate, with informative contributions from Members on both sides of the House. I will highlight a few of those contributions.
My hon. Friend the Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) hit the nail firmly on the head: there is a huge funding gap between the hourly rate the Government are making available for childcare and what parents are actually paying. The hon. Member for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan) talked about the importance of early learning in childcare, and my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt) spoke of falling numbers of childcare places and the shrinking market in childcare. The hon. Members for Kingston and Surbiton (James Berry) and for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Corri Wilson) talked about the importance of narrowing the gap between those children from the most advantaged and affluent homes and those from the least well-off homes. The hon. and learned Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Lucy Frazer) talked a lot of sense about the barriers that a lack of childcare can place in the way of women wanting to return to and contribute in the workforce. I applaud her remark that the Bill should have the needs of the child at its core.
I confirm that Her Majesty’s Opposition welcome the Government policy of extending free childcare for working parents to 30 hours a week. However, the promise of 30 hours of free childcare has gradually been whittled down, in the other place and in this place, to something very different from what parents would expect. We want the provision to be inclusive, high-quality and supportive of good outcomes for all children. We want it to narrow the attainment gap between those from well-off homes and the rest. We know that that gap begins to open from the age of 22 months.
Any parent who has worked, either by choice or necessity, and has placed their child in someone else’s hands will know just how hard that is to do. It is much easier for parents to work if, as they go out to work each day, they can be confident that their child’s provision will have a positive long-term impact on their child’s development, their health and wellbeing, and their future life chances.
We need to be realistic about what is now happening in relation to childcare. We have already heard that there are 40,000 fewer childcare places now than there were in 2010, that six in 10 councils do not have enough childcare available for working families, that working families are spending on average £1,500 more on childcare today—if they can access it—than they did in 2010, and that 40% of parents of children with a disability who want childcare cannot even get access to the 15 hours to which they are entitled.
We want to work with the Government to make the policy work for families, and particularly for children, up and down the country, and we want it to be in place as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, however, as the Bill stands—even after today’s announcement about the 30p per hour increase in the rate the Government pay to providers—there remain really serious concerns, many of which have already been raised in the other place, not least about the lack of detail in the Bill, which the Minister really must address.
The Opposition’s first concern is the funding gap. I do not believe that the Government have adequately explained during the Bill’s passage to date, including today, how the policy will work in practice and how it will be properly funded. The Government have been all over the place on this matter. As we have heard, when talking about Labour’s promise of 24 hours of childcare, the Minister said that it would cost £1.2 billion. However, when he first announced the Government’s offer of 30 hours, he said it would cost £350 million, or £365 million to be precise. By their own admission, they have recently revised the figure to £640 million. However, the Institute for Public Policy Research has identified a £1 billion funding gap in the Government’s plans, even on the basis of the current hourly rate. We welcome today’s announcement, which on the face of it shows that the Government understand there is a funding shortfall, but we believe that the policy is still £1 billion short of the true cost.
The Government have called this Bill the Childcare Bill, and the Department for Education has responsibility for taking it through Parliament, but in fact it is an economic Bill targeted first and foremost at getting parents, particularly mothers, back into employment. There is nothing wrong with that, but it does not put the child at the centre of the Bill. Given the massive funding gap, there are serious concerns that quality will be the first casualty of this policy, and capacity the second.
A wealth of evidence, not least in the 2013 Education Committee report on Sure Start centres and the foundation years—I was the Opposition lead on the Committee—and from Ofsted, clearly identifies the strong links between an Ofsted judgment of outstanding and the presence of better-qualified practitioners and of appropriately funded settings.
In its report the Education Committee highlighted the fact that the cost of poor quality childcare is not neutral. It went on to say that poor quality childcare is worse than no childcare at all and can be damaging. It can have negative long-term impacts on the development of children, particularly children who are already disadvantaged. If the policy is to work, it cannot be at the expense of good quality childcare or a widening of the already wide attainment gap between those from better-off homes and the rest.
Providers have been clear that unless the policy is properly funded, it could result in more poor quality childcare and less, not more, childcare provision. If that happens it will be, as is always the case, the few, well-off, sharp-elbowed who get access to 30 hours of good quality childcare, at the expense of the many, less well-off and less advantaged. That cannot be allowed to happen.
The Bill lacks detail so, as we go through the Committee stage, we will be looking for detailed answers. How will the Government pay for this policy without reducing quality or capacity within the sector, without increasing ratios or reducing regulation, which would have implications for the safety and well-being of children? How will the Government ensure that we have both the premises and the staffing necessary for this expansion in the sector to occur? How will the voluntary sector be helped to contribute to the extension of childcare without pushing out the pensioners luncheon clubs, the WI and the many other groups that currently use church halls alongside mother and toddler and childcare groups?
Exactly who is going to qualify for the extra 15 hours of childcare? Will it apply to those who work non-standard hours, those on flexible working hours, zero-hour contracts, self-employed parents, and parents in education or training who want to return to the workforce? As has been asked many times in the House today, how will the Government ensure that the parents and carers of disabled children can access the extra 15 hours when the overwhelming evidence now is that those parents and their children cannot even access the 15 hours that they are entitled to at present? Some 41% of parent carers of disabled children report that they cannot access the 15 hours of free childcare currently on offer, either on the grounds of cost or because staff are not trained and sufficiently confident to care for their children.
Only 21% of local authorities say that they have sufficient childcare for disabled children in their area. The Minister may recall that I chaired a parliamentary inquiry into childcare for disabled children. I was going to say that I was shocked by the outcomes, but actually I was not shocked; I was incredibly disappointed that disabled children and their parents matter so little in our society that we are not prepared even to make sure that they get access to the minimum entitlement to childcare. Parents have talked to me about institutional discrimination and systematic discrimination in childcare, and that is with the current 15 hours. They are very concerned that the existing awful situation for disabled children will deteriorate further unless the Government specifically address this issue.
I mentioned earlier that the manifesto promise was 30 hours of free childcare. That has been whittled down ever since. The Secretary of State told us today that the rates that will be paid are £4.88 for three and four-year-olds and £5.39 for two-year-olds. However, early analysis shows that when the early years pupil premium is taken into account, the 30p increase is, in fact, 17p. Taken with the Government’s plans for reviewing funding in the maintained sector, this will result in 250,000 children in 31 local authorities being less well funded than at present. For those local authorities whose rates will drop, including Manchester, Bristol, parts of London and Birmingham, as we heard earlier, the Government must put in place transitional funding to make sure that the 250,000 children and their families who are potentially affected do not miss out.
We heard today from the Chancellor of the Exchequer that the eligibility rate will change from eight hours to 16 hours. Early analysis tells us that this will affect at least 1.4 million workers working less than 16 hours, most of whom are women. The Minister said that there would be a cumulative effect, and that the criterion would be not hours, but money. However, he confirmed that workers on 16 hours who were on the minimum wage would not qualify. Those will mainly be women.
Pat Glass
That means that those on low pay and short hours—mainly women—will be affected.
We have heard today that the thresholds for access have increased; that there will be further delays in implementation, so none of this will be in place before 2017; and that there is a massive shortfall in funding. Quite honestly, parents who voted Conservative in May on the basis of this manifesto promise will be feeling seriously short-changed this evening.
We want the policy to work and we want to help the Government to make it work. However, the Government must be able to answer the questions we have during the line-by-line scrutiny of the Bill, because they have studiously avoided answering them so far. Good opposition is about scrutiny and challenge. We cannot scrutinise and challenge when there are outrageous situations such as the publication of all this information halfway through the debate today. Quite frankly, it is disingenuous. The Minister can be absolutely sure that when he comes to Committee, there will proper scrutiny and challenge of this policy. We want it to work, but it will not work unless we get it right. Proper scrutiny and challenge is exactly what he will get.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Mr Sam Gyimah)
Today is an exciting day for the childcare sector. At a time of austerity when we still have to work hard to balance the books, the Government have made a strategic decision to invest more in early years and childcare. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said, by 2019-20, £1 billion will be invested in the manifesto pledge of free childcare for the three and four-years-olds of working parents.
The hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) said that it looked like we had cut and pasted the Bill from our manifesto. I am pleased that people think we are delivering what we said in our manifesto.
The shadow Secretary of State started her speech by talking about Labour’s legacy. She mentioned Sure Start and maternity leave. As she spoke, it occurred to me that the Labour party is still living in the past when it comes to childcare. At one point, there was only one Back Bencher on the Opposition Benches. There clearly is not as much interest in the future of childcare on that side of the House.
Given that the shadow Secretary of State dwelt on Labour’s legacy, let me tell her what our legacy is in this area. In the last Parliament, we invested £20 billion in childcare. We increased the free entitlement for three and four-year-olds from 12.5 hours to 15 hours. We introduced 15 hours of free childcare for disadvantaged two-year-olds. We introduced the early-years pupil premium for the most disadvantaged three and four-year-olds to ensure that they do not start school behind. This Bill builds on a strong track record of success.
The extremely generous funding that the Chancellor announced for the sector today is, for the first time, built on detailed analysis. This is the first time that any Government have undertaken an analysis of the cost of providing childcare. It is important to distinguish between the cost of providing childcare for providers and the cost of childcare for parents. We looked at 2,000 responses, looked at the accounts, analysed the true cost of providing childcare and came up with a couple of rates—£4.88 for three and four-year-olds and £5.39 for two-year-olds—that are fair for the taxpayer and sustainable for the sector.
Some Members have asked whether the first 15 hours of provision will be different from the second 15 hours. We will pay the same rate for each, so there is no dumbing-down of the policy, as some researcher who was quoted in the debate has said. Nor are we changing staff to child ratios again, as some reports have said we will have to do to deliver the policy. Staff qualifications will remain the same.
Lucy Powell
Aside from the hourly rate, the bigger question that the Minister has been asked today is about the overall package of funding for the offer, which by any calculation falls well short of previous predictions. The key variable is the number of families who will access the offer. On the basis of the original calculation of a cost of about £1.5 billion, about 650,000 families would have been accessing it. However, the costings that the Government have outlined today suggest that they now believe fewer than 250,000 families will access it.
Lucy Powell
Well, the Minister can work out the maths himself. I can help him if he likes.
Mr Gyimah
That point is completely irrelevant. The first 15 hours will be a universal offer. Every three and four-year-old in the country will get 15 hours of early education. The Chancellor outlined today that there will be an income cap for the second 15 hours, so that people who earn more than £100,000 do not get it. The progressives on the Conservative Benches believe that is right. We also believe that, given that the measure is a work incentive, it should encourage people to work more hours.
The overall cost has been mentioned a number of times. The Labour party’s proposed 25 hours of childcare would also have applied only to working families, and Labour did not say that it would increase the rate paid to providers, which we have done. I am on record as saying that the proposal would have cost £1.5 billion. The reason for the discrepancy between Labour’s numbers and our numbers is that we recognised that if we extended the free entitlement, there would be less demand for other Government-funded childcare programmes. Once again, Labour got its numbers wrong.
Lucy Powell
I actually made the costings calculation myself at the last election. The discrepancy in the figures is way bigger than the Minister has outlined. The cost per year of the Government’s additional hours proposal will be about £2,500 for each family who qualifies for it. If the Minister divides the overall budget that they have allocated for it by that number, he will find that his Department has significantly reduced the number of families that it anticipates accessing the offer from about 600,000 to about 250,000.
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Lady is absolutely right that fewer families will access the additional hours, particularly among the well-off. It is right that we have introduced an income cap.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) made some fantastic points. I particularly welcome her suggestion that Hampshire participates as one of the early implementers of the policy, which I would definitely like to consider. She rightly mentioned childminders, who are often forgotten in debates on childcare. They offer excellent childcare based in the home, and they can offer parents much needed flexibility. We will look at the burdens of bureaucracy that affect them.
My right hon. Friend also mentioned the need to make the offer as simple as possible for parents, and we will examine that in detail. It should also be simple for providers, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said. We want not only to provide more money to the sector but to reform the system that underpins it. That means having a national funding formula that allows as much of that money as possible to get to the frontline. It also means examining the bureaucracy that means that a provider operating across different local authority areas has to have different contracts within different systems. We will look at that to ensure that providers can deliver as easily as possible.
The hon. Member for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan) made some good points about the distinction between childcare and early education. She is right to say that early education is about the child’s development, while childcare is about the parents. This policy ticks both boxes. The first 15 hours, which is the universal offer, applies to every child and is about school readiness, whereas the second 15 hours helps parents to work more hours. That said, I do not necessarily agree with her point about Scotland being a good example. Just 15% of Scottish local authorities, for example, said that they had enough childcare for working parents in 2015 compared with 23% in 2014. I do not think Scotland is the best example as regards sufficiency issues.
Carol Monaghan
Of course, we are talking about ambitious targets and the Minister is outlining his Government’s targets. Those targets are also ambitious, but targets are something that we work towards. We are working towards our targets, as I am sure the Minister will have to work towards his.
Mr Gyimah
I am glad to say that in England we have ambitious targets, but also targets on which we are delivering. For the first 15 hours, 97% of four-year-olds and 94% of three-year-olds are enrolled. The latest information from the early years foundation stage profile shows that more children than ever before are reaching a good level of development.
The non-economic eligibility criteria were mentioned, specifically as regards disabilities. I am pleased to say that in families where one parent is unable to work because they are disabled, three and four-year-olds will be eligible for 30 hours of childcare. We have also committed to including in the eligibility criteria for 30 hours parents who are unable to work because of caring responsibilities as well as lone parents and those on zero-hours contracts. To recognise these situations, there will be a grace period so that if parents lose their jobs, they do not automatically lose their entitlement to childcare.
My hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith) gave a very good speech, focusing on the need for sufficiency. I want to reassure her that, as she will have heard in the Chancellor’s statement, £50 million is being made available to increase the number of places in early years provision. Now that free schools can bid for funding to create nurseries, we project that 4,000 nursery places will be created through that programme. I understand and note her concerns about local authority top-slicing, which was mentioned a number of times in the debate, and we will be looking at that very closely as we implement the policy.
The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt), who is no longer in his place, spoke eloquently, as he often does, but misguidedly about quality in the early years sector. As I have said, 85% of providers are rated good or outstanding and the Government have not only raised the qualifications criteria for staff but are seeing quality increase as well.
My hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton (James Berry) made a good case for the value of pre-schools and underscored why this policy, particularly the entitlement for two-year-olds that we have kept in the spending review, is so important. We know that early education can make a huge difference to outcomes at school, particularly for disadvantaged children.
The hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry), with her usual bluster and conjecture, sought to criticise the policy at every turn but ended her speech by saying that she will support the Bill today. I hope that she will join the Committee, because I would very much like to go through the Bill line by line with her to ensure that we get it right for working parents, which is what I am sure she wants to do.
As the father of an 18-month-old in full day care who I drop off every day, I know what it is like for parents to be concerned about their children being cared for by high-quality professionals and I know what it is like to need flexibility and for it to be affordable, as I know many parents up and down the country do. This Bill and the spending settlement announced by the Chancellor today deliver precisely that: high-quality affordable childcare for parents.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill accordingly read a Second time.
Childcare Bill [Lords]: Programme
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),
That the following provisions shall apply to the Childcare Bill [Lords]:
Committal
(1) The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee.
Proceedings in Public Bill Committee
(2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Tuesday 15 December 2015.
(3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.
Proceedings on Consideration and up to and including Third Reading
(4) Proceedings on Consideration and proceedings in legislative grand committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which proceedings on Consideration are commenced.
(5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day.
(6) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on Consideration and up to and including Third Reading.
Other proceedings
(7) Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings on consideration of any message from the Lords) may be programmed.—(Simon Kirby.)
Question agreed to.
Childcare Bill [Lords]: Money
Queen’s recommendation signified.
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),
That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Childcare Bill [Lords], it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of:
(1) any expenditure incurred under or by virtue of the Act by the Secretary of State; and
(2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable under any other Act out of money so provided.—(Simon Kirby.)
Question agreed to.
Compulsory Emergency First Aid Education (State-funded Secondary Schools) Bill
Sam Gyimah Excerpts(9 years ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Philip Davies
You are absolutely right, Mr Deputy Speaker: it is not about the time. Time carries on, and we carry on with our speeches; time will sort itself out.
As for the flexibility and support that schools have regarding first aid, the Minister for Schools made it clear—we should put this on the record—that there is nothing to stop schools teaching first aid. He said in a parliamentary answer:
“Schools are free to teach emergency life-saving skills and may choose to do so as part of personal, social, health and economic education. The Department…is encouraging schools to purchase …defibrillators…We have also published a guide to defibrillators on school premises”.—[Official Report, 19 January 2015; Vol. 591, c. 17-18.]
The Department has made it clear that schools are already free to do this, and that it does not need to go any further. I also point out that as of 13 November this year, 787 defibrillators have been purchased under the Government’s scheme, so to say that the Government are doing nothing to assist in this area would be completely wrong and misleading. There is an awful lot being done. Much more can be achieved by continuing down a voluntary route than could be achieved by trying, in a ham-fisted way, to mandate things that never seem to work as envisaged.
It is worth pointing out that in May, the Department announced that St John Ambulance would receive more than £250,000
“to build a nation of young first aiders who are resilient, confident and motivated.”
That is part of the Government’s £3.5 million character grant scheme, through which St John Ambulance is training
“600 champions…and 31,500 pupils selected for first aid training, supporting 100,000 pupils… overall. 100 new cadet clubs will also be set up.”
That is a much more valuable way of going about this. An awful lot is being done to give children as much easy access to first aid resources as possible without interfering in the role of schools and teachers.
I acknowledge the fantastic work that school staff members throughout the country do to ensure the safety of children at school. Schools routinely include the needs of pupils when making their first aid needs assessment for staff, and when putting appropriate provision in place. The number of qualified first aiders required will be a part of the school’s first aid needs assessment, and will be based on local circumstances, so it is not as if the provision of first aid in schools is inadequate and we need the measures in the Bill; that is already catered for.
This issue touches on the question of what a school’s role is, and should be; the proposer of the Bill started to go down this route in her argument for the Bill. I think my hon. Friend the Member for Cirencester talked about schools’ roles, too.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Mr Sam Gyimah)
It was my hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham (Michelle Donelan).
Philip Davies
I apologise, it was my hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham (Michelle Donelan); the Minister is absolutely right. Over the past few decades, there has been a huge change in the perceived role of schools, and parents and politicians have placed increased responsibility on schools. They are now expected to assume responsibility for ensuring that children leave with a rounded education. That includes teaching children about personal and sex education, bullying, mental wellbeing, and society as a whole, as well as teaching them traditional subjects such as maths and science—and Latin, for the benefit of my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset.
Personal, social, health and economic education, although a non-statutory subject, is common in school timetables across the country. In primary and secondary schools, it takes an average lesson of 30 minutes or an hour in the weekly calendar, and is an established part of the school day. Despite the fact that the Government should be reducing the regulatory burden on schools, across the country, teachers are expected to assume a pseudo-parental role. We say to parents, “Don’t worry about how you bring up your children, what you enter them in for, or encouraging them to do things, because we’ll cover it all for you.” That is a bad way for the country to go. We should put more responsibility on parents to sort out extra-curricular activities for their children, and less on schools. We are encouraging parents to abdicate their responsibilities. It should be my role to encourage my children to do things out of school that may enable them to get first aid training; we should not always say that it is the school’s responsibility.
A serious effect of the Bill is that it will take up time in the curriculum. Across the UK, and specifically in the district where my constituency is, Bradford, there are too many failing schools. In those circumstances, it is not appropriate to expect either teachers or students to focus on a completely new subject area when, in too many instances, basic maths and English are not up to standard. Recent Ofsted reports highlighted some of these issues. Of one school that received an “inadequate” rating, Ofsted said:
“Students have weak literacy, communication and numeracy skills.”
Against that backdrop, if an extra half-hour, hour or two hours of study should be done during the school day, perhaps focusing on the weak literacy, communication and numeracy skills would be a far better use of students’ time. That may not be the case everywhere, but that is why we have to leave the decision to teachers. When there is extra time in a school, surely it is teachers who know what a pupil would do best to focus on for half an hour, an hour or two hours.
In many schools in Bradford, it is perfectly clear that spending extra time on English would be far more beneficial than a two-hour course in first aid, regardless of whether that is worth while. Some of Bradford’s examination results are extremely poor. In fact, Bradford is one of the most failing local education authorities in the country. Surely we have to get our priorities right for those schools. Many of the teachers in those schools are working incredibly hard to turn them around. They need the support and encouragement to enable their school to give extra tuition in English and maths—those are things that they are trying to do. The last thing they need is for this House and the Government to come in with a sledgehammer and say, “I know you’re really trying to turn around the maths and English qualifications of your pupils, but forget about spending half an hour, or a couple of hours, doing that; your pupils have to do first aid training.” That is why these decisions are best made locally.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Mr Sam Gyimah)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Teresa Pearce) on securing this debate. She rightly pointed out that nothing is more important than keeping children and the staff who educate them safe in our schools.
Emergency first aid skills are therefore very important. Having the skills to deal with emergencies such as severe bleeding, heart attacks, choking or episodes arising from an underlying condition such as asthma or epilepsy can save lives. It is also vital that people know how to summon emergency services in such situations.
Cardiac arrest can affect anyone at any time, regardless of whether they have previously been diagnosed with a cardiac condition. When such incidents affect children, it is terribly tragic. Unfortunately, there have been a number of tragic incidents in schools in which children have suffered sudden cardiac arrest and could not be resuscitated. The number of such incidents is, thankfully, very low, but of course every child, teacher and member of support staff who dies in this way is one too many.
Let us be clear: nothing is more important than keeping children and the staff who educate them safe in our schools. That is why I welcome the opportunity to discuss this important issue and to set out what the Government are doing in this regard.
We have done much to improve the way in which children are kept safe in school. For example, we have introduced a new duty requiring governing bodies of maintained schools, academy proprietors and management committees of pupil referral units to put in place appropriate arrangements to support children’s medical needs. I set this out because as we delve deeply into this debate, we need to appreciate the context within which the Bill is being introduced.
Most schools already had satisfactory arrangements in place and therefore were not required to do anything new. However, poor practice can make children miss school unnecessarily and fall behind in their studies. At its worst, it can be life-threatening.
Through the Department for Education introducing the new duty, parents can ensure they have a better experience of getting the right support for their children with medical needs. We have published accompanying guidance, “Supporting pupils at school with medical conditions”, and this is being used extensively by schools and parents. Crucially, we have also encouraged all schools to consider purchasing automated external defibrillators as part of their first aid equipment, making use of the new statutory guidance. To facilitate that, we have launched arrangements enabling schools to purchase high-quality defibrillators at a significantly reduced price. We have done that by working in partnership with the Department of Health to open up to schools the procurement routes used by many of our country’s ambulance services, and by purchasing large numbers of devices to achieve significant savings.
Of course, buying an automated external defibrillator —an AED—is only part of the story. In a cardiac arrest situation, every second is important. Schools therefore need to have an understanding of the devices and their capabilities and the knowledge to position them accessibly and close to where they are most likely to be needed. That is why we have also produced a new guide, developed in collaboration with the NHS ambulance services and a range of voluntary and community sector stakeholders. It covers issues such as positioning, staff awareness training and the maintenance of AEDs on school premises. The guide is clear on the importance of defibrillation and CPR in the chain of survival.
Schools will of course already have first-aiders trained in CPR, but there is no reason why they cannot use the purchase of an AED as an impetus to promote the knowledge of these skills more widely in the school community, among staff and pupils alike. Indeed, we suggest this in our guide and hope that many will choose to do it. To facilitate this, we highlight the fact that many NHS ambulance services, voluntary and community sector organisations and local authorities already offer free or low-cost training to schools.
Mrs Sheryll Murray
Will my hon. Friend congratulate the organisations such as St John Ambulance, the British Red Cross and the British Heart Foundation that help to provide this kind of training? Will he also congratulate the local Lions clubs that have helped to fund community purchases of defibrillators?
Mr Gyimah
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. A wide range of organisations have worked tirelessly over the years to make emergency first-aid training available not only in schools but more widely throughout our communities.
The widespread availability of defibrillators in our nation’s schools also has the potential to be of wider benefit to society. School premises and facilities are often used for other purposes outside school hours. In particular, they are frequently the location for sports events and other types of physical activity, which we know can increase the risk of cardiac arrest in at-risk individuals.
Schools are also at the centre of their communities. The guide therefore suggests that, if they choose to purchase one or more AEDs, they might wish to consider making the devices externally accessible when such an arrangement also meets the needs of the school. Installing a publicly accessible defibrillator may be particularly helpful in isolated areas, where ambulance response times are typically longer. Many schools have viewed this as a tangible way in which they can give something back to the communities they serve. I am pleased to confirm that by the end of last week, 787 defibrillators had been purchased under the scheme.
Of course, access to an AED is only part of the story. Every second is important when someone suffers a cardiac arrest, and first aid skills are vital to ensuring that help is available when it is most needed. The guide is therefore clear on the importance of both defibrillation and CPR in the chain of survival. Schools will, of course, already have first-aiders trained in CPR, but there is no reason why they cannot use the purchase of an AED as an impetus to promote further knowledge of these skills, as I have said.
Some have argued that, because of the good intentions behind the Bill, it should go through on the nod today and continue into Committee. The hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead made a powerful case that we should go further. She argued for the provision of emergency first-aid education in all state-funded secondary schools, including academies and free schools. She also argued for that education to include cardio-pulmonary resuscitation and defibrillator awareness. She argued for first-aid education to be included in initial teacher training and continuing teacher education. Finally, she made the case for the Government to publish best practice guidance for delivering and inspecting emergency first-aid education.
This is not a simple Bill. I recognise the hon. Lady’s intention to ensure that more people have the kind of knowledge and skills that can prove so valuable in assisting a child or colleague suffering a cardiac arrest. I am afraid, however, that I do not share her view that such an addition to the national curriculum would be the best approach to securing her objective.
Mrs Murray
I have already raised the matter of renewing first aid certificates and CPR certificates. Will the Minister expand on that by saying where it would fit in with the curriculum if this Bill were to go through?
Mr Gyimah
My hon. Friend has made some very good points during this debate and she makes another one there. In thinking about this Bill, the intentions are important but we also have to consider how we implement it across thousands of schools to make sure that every child receiving this gets the highest-quality training and that it is refreshed at the appropriate times.
The new national curriculum, which has been mentioned a number of times, particularly by my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies), introduced in September 2014, represents a clear step forward for schools. It provides an outline of core knowledge around which teachers can develop exciting and stimulating lessons to promote the development of pupils’ knowledge, understanding and skills as part of the wider school curriculum. It will ensure that all children have the opportunity to acquire the essential knowledge in key subjects. Beyond primary English, mathematics and science, the slimmer national curriculum gives teachers greater flexibility to innovate in how they teach and to develop new approaches that will engage children in their education more effectively.
Mr Gyimah
I do want to make some progress. We want the new national curriculum to last, rather than having to be updated every few years. The new national curriculum is based on a body of essential knowledge that children should be expected to acquire in key subjects during the course of their school career. It embodies for all children their cultural and scientific inheritance, enhances their understanding of the world around them, and exposes them to the best that has been thought and written. That essential knowledge should not change significantly over time.
It has somehow been routine for Education Ministers to come to this place to make the case against the inclusion of a particular new requirement in the national curriculum. Such proposals, like the one in this Bill, are often supported by a persuasive argument, but their sheer number means that I start from a position of caution. I have to read out some of the topics that have been suggested for inclusion in order to make Members aware of the sheer burdens that people wish to be imposed on the national curriculum. The topics include: understanding the causes and issues around homelessness; teaching children about their rights in the context of forced marriage; teaching against violence; understanding transgender issues; knowledge about the health dangers of tobacco; understanding animal welfare; anti-bullying, including online bullying; the risks and dangers of gambling; promoting gender equality; knowledge about cancer and how to cope when cancer affects your life; knowledge of the symptoms of brain tumours in young people; fire and road safety, as was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Will Quince); positive body image; the UN declaration on the rights of the child; the dangers of carbon monoxide; gardening; knife crime—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. I must say to the Minister that he cannot read out a telephone book of examples. He needs to try to get to the point we are dealing with.
Mr Deputy Speaker
Order. I hope you are not suggesting that I am trying to stop a democratic speech.
Mr Deputy Speaker
Order. I think we have all got the examples—I don’t need the rest of the telephone book to be read out! Please, let’s get back to the debate. You have got plenty of pages with you there, just pick a different one.
Mr Gyimah
I am glad that you have grasped the point so quickly, Mr Deputy Speaker. Some of those proposals are niche, to say the least, but when made they all have a strong and persuasive argument behind them, with support from a strong campaign. If we were to include each of them in the national curriculum, we would have to ask what they displace, how we account for the time and how things develop. If the Government were to tell schools that they should teach about the dangers of tobacco, about gardening and about road safety along with every one of the issues that I listed earlier, we would be prescribing a very long list of specific content that should be covered, which would be unproductive. It could lead to a tick-box approach, as my hon. Friend the Member for Newark (Robert Jenrick) mentioned, that does not properly address the most important issues.
