Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Gove Excerpts

Monday 25th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[David Johnston (Wantage) (Con)]

22. What steps he is taking to reform planning rules.

[The Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (Michael Gove)]

The response to last year’s consultation on the planning White Paper generated significant interest. I am considering all those responses and will make an announcement on next steps in due course.

[Caroline Dinenage]

I welcome the Secretary of State to his role.

The Gosport peninsula is more than 80% built on, and a further 12% of it is conservation area. There is simply nowhere to build the wildly unrealistic 2014 housing numbers without decimating any remaining green areas and, of course, the vital strategic gap. Worse, the 2018 Office for National Statistics population data reveal that our actual housing need is 3,000 fewer homes. I really understand that the nation needs houses, but this Government champion localism. Will he please give me hope that they will not be imposing unrealistic, outdated housing numbers on us?

[Hon. Members]

That’s you!

[Michael Gove]

It is still something of a surprise to me, Mr Speaker. I do not know what it is like for you.

I completely understand the unique issues faced by my hon. Friend’s constituents. The unique geography of the peninsula and the communities she represents poses particular challenges when it comes not just to meeting local housing need, but to respecting the environment and, indeed, the nature of the communities and their special cherishable character. As we take forward our proposals for planning reform, we will be balancing the need for new housing with environmental concerns and also the vital importance of listening to local people.

[Julie Marson]

The Harlow and Gilston garden town development is the largest release of green-belt land for our housing for generations. The scale of the challenge for magnificent community groups such as the Hunsdon, Eastwick and Gilston neighbourhood plan group to get their voices heard is a David and Goliath challenge. Does my right hon. Friend agree that we need to listen to and trust local people, and will he meet me to discuss this project and how it can provide a live case study for the design of future planning reform?

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. It is thanks to the work of organisations such as the Hunsdon, Eastwick and Gilston neighbourhood plan group that we involve local communities in making these uniquely sensitive decisions. As we consider our plans for the future, one thing we want to do is to make sure that the voice of local people is integrated more effectively into planning decisions.

[David Johnston]

The two district councils that Wantage and Didcot cover are in the top 10 areas of England for houses built, but in the bottom third for infrastructure. People would be less unhappy with the house building if it came with more GP surgeries, the reopening of Grove station and better roads. Will my right hon. Friend assure me that, as he reforms planning, there will be a greater emphasis on improving infrastructure to support the population that the houses come with?

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. Across the country, many people would welcome new housing development enthusiastically if they had the assurance of knowing that there was sufficient investment in infrastructure to ensure that public services and other utilities were there for them so that additional pressure was not applied unequally. His argument is correct, and it has been incorporated into our thinking about the future of planning reform.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

I welcome the Secretary of State to his new role and look forward to seeing him at the Select Committee next week. I do not know whether he has had the chance to read yet the Select Committee’s review of the planning reforms. May I suggest that local plans need to be at the heart of a plan-led system, indicating where development is likely to happen? To do that, local plans need to be simpler, easier to understand and get more people involved in the process so that there is real community buy-in to them. Finally, even when local plans are in place, there still needs to be an opportunity for local people to be able to comment on, object to, and, where necessary, influence the outcomes of individual planning applications.

[Michael Gove]

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who is a very distinguished Select Committee Chair. At the danger of establishing a treacly consensus right from the very beginning, may I say that I entirely agreed with the first part of his question? As for the second part, I certainly welcome that direction of travel.

[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

Today, York has been voted Britain’s most popular city. However, if we get planning wrong, we will embed inequality into our city. The governance structures over projects such as York Central are currently in the wrong place, so they will not deliver for the people in my city. Will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss York Central, as I have met many of his Ministers, so that we get the governance structures right for the future?

[Michael Gove]

I would be delighted to meet the hon. Lady. It is important to recognise that we want to work with York to ensure that there is a local plan in place, but it is also the case, as she knows, that this Government are investing in York, deploying more resource and bringing more civil servants to the beautiful city that she represents. I hope that we can continue, in that consensual manner, to deliver for the people of York.

[Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab)]

I welcome the new Secretary of State to his role. I also welcome his replies to hon. Members, as he said that, effectively, the Government’s developers charter is being reviewed. I have not seen the right hon. Gentleman torpedo something so effectively since he sunk the Prime Minister’s leadership bid in 2016. But we know that, like Lazarus, the Prime Minister came back. Will the Secretary of State therefore take this opportunity to confirm that the Government’s wholly unpopular and disastrous planning reforms will never return?

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for taking me back to the halcyon days of 2016; it was not so much a torpedo being launched as an unexploded bomb going off in my own hands. As the former Member for Kensington and Chelsea, Sir Malcolm Rifkind, pointed out, one of the things about committing political suicide is that you always live to regret it.

On the hon. Lady’s broader point, it is only fair to say that the planning White Paper was mischaracterised by many. There is so much that is good in it, but it is important that we listen to concerns that were expressed in order to ensure that an already powerful and compelling suite of proposals is even more effective.

[Claire Coutinho (East Surrey) (Con)]

2. What recent discussions he has had with the Home Secretary and the Secretary of State for Justice on increasing the supply of safe accommodation for domestic abuse victims.

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[Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)]

5. What plans his Department has to increase devolution across the UK.

[The Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (Michael Gove)]

This Government plan to expand, augment and increase devolution across the United Kingdom, and we have already begun discussions with areas interested in county deals, and we will be setting out next steps in the levelling up White Paper.

[Nigel Mills]

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer. In the east midlands, we look with some envy at neighbouring regions that have elected mayors and have successfully attracted more investment. I urge him to make progress on an east midlands elected mayor. In the meantime, if he cannot do that, Derbyshire stands ready for a county deal and would appreciate being a pathfinder.

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Expanding the model of combined authority mayors and a greater level of devolution are at the heart of making sure that local communities have strong leaders who can make a decisive difference, not least in the economic sphere. I know that Derbyshire County Council is now under exemplary Conservative leadership and we hope to be able to build on that.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

I, too, welcome the Secretary of State to his place. The United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 fundamentally undermined the devolution settlement and was explicitly rejected in Holyrood and the Senedd. He claimed again today that he seeks to augment devolution, so can he explain how riding roughshod over democratically devolved Parliaments does that?

[Michael Gove]

We never ride, roughshod or otherwise, over the devolution settlement. I have two things to say: first, I hope that we will shortly receive news from the Chancellor of the Exchequer about the allocation of funds under the Act’s financial assistance power through the levelling-up fund. I am pleased to say that a number of SNP MPs—the hon. Lady’s parliamentary colleagues —as well as SNP councils, have backed bids to that fund. It is great to have locally elected representatives on the ground supporting the financial assistance power of the Act and the vital importance of working together. Secondly, although of course I will not interfere in the devolution settlement, there is a contrast between our approach, where we devolve more power to local government in England, and that of the current Scottish Government, which takes power away from Scottish councils.

[Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con)]

Across Lancashire, we are ambitious about having a county deal—with a mayor, I hope—but levelling-up bids must come first. Can the Secretary of State give some clarity about the timing of the second round of those bids? In Rossendale, where we are working with our levelling-up board on a plan, we need to know the timeframe.

[Michael Gove]

My right hon. Friend is right: east Lancashire is one area that we will focus on in the coming months. Much more needs to be done, and he has been at the forefront of ensuring that the voice of the whole of the north of England—not just that of east Lancashire—is heard clearly in Whitehall. The Chancellor of the Exchequer will be in a position to share details of the next round with the House a wee bit later.

[Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)]

6. What assessment he has made of the potential impact of the UK community renewal fund on communities with high levels of deprivation.

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[Steven Bonnar (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (SNP)]

10. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the Government’s relations with the devolved Administrations.

[The Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (Michael Gove)]

My assessment is that they are really not bad at all.

[Steven Bonnar]

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer. I tend to disagree, but I will accept it anyway.

The chief of staff to the former Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), said recently that the democratic mandate for a second Scottish independence referendum was “clear” and apparent. He also said that support for Scottish independence rose from the very moment the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson) became Prime Minister. That is being driven mainly by opposition to the Government’s Brexit policy and the perceived relative handling of the covid-19 pandemic by the UK and Scottish Governments. Would the Secretary of State care to tell the House and the people of Scotland why he thinks continuing to dismiss Scotland’s democratic rights will strengthen the Union?

[Michael Gove]

Scotland’s democratic destiny was asserted in the 2014 referendum, when a majority of people voted to remain in the United Kingdom. The strength of the United Kingdom is visible daily. In just a week’s time, the dear green place that the hon. Gentleman has the honour to represent—Glasgow—will be home to COP26. One of the things about COP26 is that we would not have that global climate change conference in Glasgow if Scotland were not in the United Kingdom. We would not have a billion-pound-a-year Union dividend if Scotland were not in the United Kingdom, and indeed we would not have the hon. Gentleman’s mellifluous tones gracing this House if Scotland were not in the United Kingdom.

[Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con)]

This Government are committed to at least one new freeport in Wales. I chair the Anglesey freeport bidding consortium. Can the Secretary of State reassure my Ynys Môn constituents that he is working with the Welsh Government to ensure that there is at least one new freeport in Wales?

[Michael Gove]

Freeports are one of the many advantages that all the nations of the United Kingdom can enjoy as a result of our departure from the European Union. Freeports will allow investment in every part of the United Kingdom, and I am looking forward to working with partners in Wales, and indeed in Scotland and Northern Ireland, to make sure that we can seize the opportunities that Brexit provides for our coastal communities.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

I feel I should doff my cap at the munificence of this Parliament towards Scotland.

Devolved Governments are not involved, consulted or considered in trade deals; Scotland is shut out of carbon capture and storage, despite the hot air of Better Together promises; and the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 undermines the last two decades of the devolution settlement. In what ways does the Secretary of State think that bypassing the democratically elected devolved Parliaments shows that this Union is indeed a partnership of equals?

[Mr Speaker]

Secretary of State—briefly.

[Michael Gove]

I meet weekly with First Ministers from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. If the hon. Lady were privileged enough to be able to observe those meetings, she would see that they are like a nest of singing birds. They are festivals of cordiality. I recognise that the SNP needs to keep its activist base happy with the recitation of these grievances, but the reality is that those who serve in the Scottish Government know that we in the UK Government are their friends and partners, and Scotland has no better friends than the other citizens of the United Kingdom.

[Jack Brereton (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Con)]

11. What steps his Department is taking to support regeneration in towns and cities.

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[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (Michael Gove)]

I would like briefly to pay tribute to two of my predecessors. It is an honour to follow my right hon. Friend the Member for Newark (Robert Jenrick) in this role. I thank him for his dedicated service, and particularly for the role he played in championing integration and social cohesion in this county, and in ensuring that we recognise how vital beauty is in the built environment. It is also a privilege to follow our departed friend James Brokenshire in this role. There is not enough time now for me to say how much we all owe him, but he was a truly wonderful guy and a great Secretary of State.

[Mr Perkins]

I associate myself with the comments made by the Secretary of State. The great benefits that HS2 will bring to the east midlands and Yorkshire will be undermined if we do not get the increased capacity and reliability that new lines would bring, so it was deeply concerning this weekend to hear the Government suggesting that future plans for the eastern leg of HS2 might not involve new lines. Can the Secretary of State confirm that he is an absolute advocate in Parliament and around the Cabinet table for the letter sent to him by the leaders of Leeds City Council and Nottinghamshire County Council, which stated that levelling up would

“fall at the first hurdle”

if we did not get full investment in the eastern leg of HS2, with new lines attached?

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, but I will not pre-empt anything the Chancellor may say later this week about the commitment we are making on infrastructure.

[Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con)]

T2. What better example can there be of potential levelling up than Twycross zoo’s bid, under Bosworth, for a national education and conservation centre? It would not only drive tourism but teach the next conservationists of the year. Would the Secretary of State care to come to Twycross and see it for himself? Failing that, could he give a date for when we can find out the result of the first bids?

[Michael Gove]

Having been in this House for 16 and a half years, I am familiar with what zoos look like, but it would be an absolute pleasure to visit my hon. Friend’s constituency. He makes an important point about the importance of linking environmental awareness and levelling up in the drive to unite and level up the country, and ensure that we address our broader environmental concerns.

[Steve Reed (Croydon North) (Lab/Co-op)]

May I associate myself with the comments made about the former Members for Southend West, and for Old Bexley and Sidcup, who are both immensely missed by the whole House?

It is a pleasure to welcome the Secretary of State and the new Ministers to their place, and to see older Ministers as well—why not?

It has been four months since the deadline for community renewal fund bids. The mid-point reviews are due to start next week, but many areas still have no idea whether their bids have been successful. Some tell me that the Government’s delays mean that their projects may collapse. There is no point in the Government trumpeting funding that never turns up, so will the Secretary of State commit to letting every area know the outcome of its bid before the end of this month? Can he guarantee that the Department’s delays so far will not jeopardise jobs or investment linked to any of those projects?

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. The UK community renewal fund and its successor, the UK shared prosperity fund, are both examples of how we can have more effective control of the money that needs to be spent to support communities in improving productivity now that we have left the European Union. He is right that it is a cause of regret that we have not been able to respond as quickly as we might have wanted, but there will be more news later this week.

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[Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab)]

I welcome the new Ministers to their place. In 2019-20, the Government oversaw a net loss of 17,476 social homes. House building fell short of its national target by 90,000 homes. That caps more than a decade of house building failure. Every year, the Government do not meet their housing targets and do not build enough genuinely affordable homes. Will the Secretary of State grab the bull by the horns and build a new generation of green homes for social rent at scale?

[Michael Gove]

Not a bad idea.

[Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con)]

T7.   Operational carbon emissions continue to fall, but as the Secretary of State will know, 38% of our global emissions still come from our buildings. Will he consider regulating embodied carbon in our built environment, as a way to promote more sustainable building and the use of more natural materials?

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

T5. May I press the Secretary of State on a point about the Llanhilleth Miners Institute, which does fantastic work? It was a safe haven for my community during the floods last year. It applied to the UK community renewal fund in May and got council support but, like others, it has heard nothing since. Will he please consider an extension to the time that the Llanhilleth Miners Institute will have in which to spend any grant, should it be successful?

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. We want to make sure that the money is out of the door as quickly as possible, but we will, of course, look at every project, and will look to work with Llanhilleth to see what we can do to deliver effectively.

[Paul Holmes (Eastleigh) (Con)]

T8. I support the right of councils to build homes, but there is an obvious conflict of interests when councils acting as developers award themselves planning permission. The Secretary of State will know that I presented a Bill on this issue during the last Session. Will he agree to meet me to discuss how we can take this proposal forward, so that councils are subject to the same checks and balances as private developers?

[Michael Gove]

I look forward to having just that conversation.

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

T6.   I congratulate the Secretary of State on retaining the portfolio responsibility for democracy in his new Department. When he cheered for the Brexit campaign, he used to rail against unelected elites making decisions. With that in mind, can he tell us how Lord Frost managed to become a peer and a member of the Cabinet, and how Malcolm Offord has managed to become a peer and a member of the Scotland Office? Was it anything to do with the £150,000 that he donated to the Scottish Tories?

[Michael Gove]

In both cases, it was sheer luminous talent.

[Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) (Con)]

T9. Will the Minister take action to stop the Mayor of London building over suburban station car parks in places such as High Barnet and Cockfosters, given the damage that it will do to public access to public transport, particularly for people with impaired mobility?

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[Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con)]

I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to his post. In doing so, I cannot miss the opportunity to request a meeting with him so that I can convey the real concerns of local residents to the west of my constituency boundary, in the parish of Ifield, at proposals for 10,000 houses on greenfield sites.

[Michael Gove]

Of course I cannot comment on any individual planning application, but I know what a brilliant job my hon. Friend does in representing his constituents, so I look forward to meeting him to listen to the case he is making, or to a member of my ministerial team doing so.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

Despite Bristol University students being housed in Bath because there were not enough students from Bath University, a planning inspector ruled this year that more purpose-built student housing was needed. What does the Secretary of State suggest a local authority should do when it is overruled in this way?

[Michael Gove]

The planning inspector is, of course, there to ensure that there is effective compliance with the housing requirements on the part of local authorities. However, one thing that I would say for any planning inspector is that they depend on consistency, and there has been consistency in the way in which the Government have approached these issues. Where there has been inconsistency is in the position of the Liberal Democrats, who campaign in seats such as Chesham and Amersham on the basis that they are wholly opposed to new housing and development, and then, at a national policy level, call for even more houses to be built than this Government. Were it not for the fact that the phrase “hypocrisy” would be unparliamentary, that, I am afraid, would be the best description of the multi-faceted bottom-feeding perversion of consistency that is Liberal Democrat housing and planning policy. To describe it as hydra-headed would be an understatement, when it comes to the many contorted positions that the Liberal Democrats occupy on this issue.