Disability Benefits: Assessments

Marion Fellows Excerpts

Monday 4th September 2023 Westminster Hall

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Gary. I thank the Petitions Committee, its able representative the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Elliot Colburn), and the petitioners who brought this really important debate to Westminster Hall. I have rewritten my speech about 12 times since I sat down for the debate, so I will be juggling papers, but that is because I have been listening very carefully to what my colleagues have said about their constituents’ stories and their views on what should happen to try to find a way forward.

I have already thanked the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington, and I thank the Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee, the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), for all his work to challenge the Government on how the DWP conducts its business—in this case, specifically on PIP. I thank the hon. Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson), an old ally or enemy of mine who I worked frequently with when he was the disabilities Minister. Although we might not agree on everything, we agree that things should be better.

My hon. Friend Member for Livingston (Hannah Bardell) talked about colitis and Crohn’s, along with her co-chair, the hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Sarah Green). The hon. Member for Warrington North (Charlotte Nichols) talked about MS and my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow East (David Linden)—my part boss—talked quite volubly about what the Scottish Government are doing and about the system’s failings. I find it hard to disagree with him—an unusual occasion for both of us.

The hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) talked about us as colleagues counting wins from the DWP. How appalling is it that we feel really happy to secure for our constituents something that they should have got in the first place? She also talked about WCAs and the application process and gave us a harrowing story about one of her constituents.

Green Papers, White Papers, disability action plans—the Government are always saying that things will change, but nothing much has changed since I was elected to this place in 2015. There is a trail of aspirations and only worsening conditions in some areas, where disability organisations have to take the Government to court to try to obtain justice for some of the most vulnerable members of society.

What is PIP for? I thought it was to help with the additional cost of being disabled. The horror stories that we have listened to this afternoon—and others—have often reduced me to tears of pure frustration and anger, especially during this cost of living crisis. At a time when the most vulnerable disabled people really needed help, the £150 just did not cover it.

I will very quickly refer to one constituency case. I know the constituent personally, and my whole team were absolutely appalled. She phoned me in tears to say that she had had to go for a PIP reassessment. She was diagnosed with terminal breast cancer approximately five years ago. She has two young children. She has tried every trial, every drug—everything to try to stay alive for her children. She was forced to use some of her precious time to be reassessed. One of the things that most appalled her, and me, was that an assessor actually asked her, “How long do you expect to live?” I think the Minister is aware of the case. I tried very hard to get my constituent switched to the Scottish system, but no, it comes in turns; I could not do it. She did get the PIP—she did get the money—but what she was put through in the process just defies belief.

As we have heard, the Scottish Government are firmly committed to doing things differently, whether or not we agree that they just want to do things for the sake of being different; I gently disagree with the hon. Member for North Swindon on that point. They have introduced a new, simplified, empathetic system for assessments that works for disabled people in Scotland.

The adult disability payment has been designed in partnership with the people who will receive it. The input of disabled people has been crucial to designing an improved service that is very different from the DWP’s system. The Scottish Government listened to disabled people’s experiences during the design of the new system and are doing things differently. They have abolished the type of DWP assessment that is still being undertaken with some of my constituents. Instead, and only where required, they will hold person-centred consultations between the person and a Social Security Scotland health or social care practitioner, starting from a position of trust. In other words, we think people are applying because they need it, not because they are trying to con somebody in the system.

In contrast to the DWP’s system, the Scottish Government removed the burden from individuals to provide supporting information, so the onus will instead be on Social Security Scotland to collect the information it requires. The Scottish Government have put an end to the anxiety of undignified physical and mental assessments, to private sector involvement and to the stressful cycle of unnecessary reassessments. The Scottish Government have introduced indefinite awards for people on the highest level of ADP who have needs that are highly unlikely to change. That avoids unnecessary reviews, promotes people’s dignity, is proportionate to their needs and provides the security of long-term financial support. Anyone with a terminal illness will be fast-tracked, and access to that support will not be tied to a time-limited life expectancy; the judgment of clinicians will be followed.

The Scottish Government’s priority is getting decisions right the first time, so that people are paid their benefits without having to be put through a time-consuming appeal process. Another key difference is that Social Security Scotland often collects information to support people’s applications on their behalf.

It is different. I have talked to constituents and to people who attend my Poverty Action Network, who have told me that moving from working with the DWP to working with the Scottish social security system has changed their lives. They feel so much better. There may be nothing written in stone, on paper or in guidance for people who work for the DWP, but there is a culture that has changed completely with SSS. It is not perfect; I do not stand here and claim that that is so, but I do say that the Scottish Government are trying to make it easier, better and simpler for people who need these types of payment to actually get what they need to enhance their life.

I, too, received lots of briefings, but the one that I want to quickly concentrate on is from the Royal National Institute of Blind People. It gave me a number of suggested questions for the Minister, so I am going to ask them and, in some cases, say why it wants to know, because it also gave me examples.

Will the Minister change the DWP’s practice with respect to medical evidence, so that assessments make best use of pre-existing evidence from experts such as healthcare professionals? This is particularly the case in relation to claimants who already have certificates confirming severe sight loss.

Secondly, will the Minister ensure that all benefits assessors receive sensory impairment training as part of wider disability awareness training? One theme that others have asked about is informal observations. Will the Minister take steps to ensure that informal observations are credible, discussed with the claimant and substantiated before they form part of the decision-making process? RNIB gave the example of a woman with severe sight loss who was said to have made eye contact. I know many people with sight loss, and they look in the direction of the sound. She was looking at the assessor. She was asked to produce documents, so she went into her handbag and took out documents, which the assessor took to mean that her sight loss was not quite what she appeared to be suggesting. She pulled out the papers, which were in a brightly coloured envelope, which was the only thing in her handbag, but their casual, informal observation was “It’s okay, she can go into her handbag and take things out, so she can’t possibly have that much sight loss.”

A very important question for the Minister that has not been touched on this afternoon is what changes the DWP is making to its procedures, following the High Court ruling that found the Department in breach of equality laws for failing to provide accessible information about benefits to blind and partially sighted people. I visited Deafblind Scotland a few months ago and listened to a tale from a woman who was known to require accessible information, including by the DWP, but was not getting it. Dr Yusuf Ali Osman got a judicial review on this, because he received 21 pieces of information from the DWP over a three-year period that he just could not access. He could not read it.

This is really important, and a recent example is the closure of ticket offices, whereby rail groups are putting notices in stations, which people with sight loss cannot read, to say that they are closing the ticket office and there is a consultation. I have written to the Minister on that and I know it has been changed, but the DWP really has to look at this unthinking process that assumes that everybody is the same and fits into a box. What steps will the Minister take to ensure that all benefit advisers have a stronger understanding of the reasonable adjustments available and the legal duty on the Department to make those adjustments?

I have meetings with the Minister and we agree on many things. I know he wants to improve things for disabled people, but I go back to what I said: what is PIP for? I thought it was to help people with disabilities. It should be easily proven by medical experts, and whether it is a mental health or physical issue, we should not have to put disabled people through the trauma of PIP assessments in their current form.

Cost of Living Support

Marion Fellows Excerpts

Tuesday 20th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Tom Pursglove]

I reiterate the point that people often receive multiple parts of the comprehensive cost of living support that we are providing. The hon. Lady also made a point about the UN, but my experience from speaking to counterparts from across the world at the UN last week and being involved in the discussions there was that people often look to the United Kingdom as being a world leader on these matters. It is important to make that point in the context of the comment she just made. The fact is that we are continuing to keep under review the package of support that is provided, but it is worth recognising that people often receive multiple parts of the package alongside the disability cost of living payment.

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

It was a real pleasure to listen to the hon. Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova), who is always eloquent when it comes to disabled people. We have heard already about the support with the £150 extra. I thank the Minister for that; it is literally better than nothing. Many disabled people are trying to get into work, because they have to work to be able to afford the basics in life. There is a disability income gap, as the Minister will be aware. Will he look back on his White Paper, because he missed out the delays that people are now facing to get support from Access to Work? It is impossible, almost. Disabled people are losing jobs daily, because they cannot get the support they need when they need it. Will the Minister review that and try to help disabled people be able to afford more?

[Tom Pursglove]

The hon. Lady knows, because we meet regularly to talk about these issues, my absolute determination to deliver on greater employment opportunities for disabled people. In fact, as I said earlier, I am meeting the Scottish Minister later today, where this issue is on the agenda. I hope that we can move forward with our reforms in a constructive, collaborative manner, so that they benefit people across the United Kingdom to their fullest extent. We are putting additional resource into Access to Work to get through applications quicker, and a number of process changes have also been made. Those are in the early stages, but the anecdotal commentary I am receiving from officials is that with some of these changes, we are seeing cases processed much more quickly.

Cost of Living: Financial Support for Disabled People

Marion Fellows Excerpts

Monday 22nd May 2023 Westminster Hall

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Robert, and I thank the Petitions Committee for securing this really important debate. More importantly, however, I thank the petitioners and those who signed their petition.

I pay tribute to the We Care Campaign, which provided me with an excellent briefing for today. The hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) mentioned that I had a debate in this Chamber last week—it was last Tuesday. I immediately reprised that debate during our Opposition day on Tuesday afternoon. Some of my contribution I could probably give without notes, and I am not going to repeat every statistic that I brought up. Nothing, however, has changed since last week. Even I would not have expected it to happen that quickly.

The cost of living, and how it affects disabled people and their carers, is something that this Government have to take seriously and do something about. Everyone who has contributed already has said most of what I was going to. I am going to repeat some of it because it is far too important not to repeat. There is real agreement across the Chamber today that the Government must do more to support disabled people, who are far more likely to live in poverty than those who are not disabled. They are particularly vulnerable to the rising cost of living.

Households across the UK and Scotland continue to face extremely challenging economic conditions. We know that food inflation is still at 19.1% a year, and for many disabled people on special diets the costs are even higher. We know that inflation disproportionately impacts lower income groups, and that is certainly true of disabled people, who spend a relatively higher proportion of their income on eating and keeping warm. According to Scope, disabled people are almost three times as likely to live in poverty than the rest of the population. That includes any disability benefits they get. Disabled households have to use a lot of their money to run powerful machines to help them live a more normal life. They have to pay more to get to hospital because they cannot generally use public transport. The list of things that cost more for disabled people and their households is incredible. The Government have to take it on board.

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right, and has just brought to my mind the issue of being unable to travel. Some of my constituents cannot travel on buses because of their anxiety issues. They may have panic attacks when they are out; whenever they see a crowd of people they automatically focus on where they are. They panic, and that is why they cannot use public transport. What they need is taxis. Can they afford them? No, they cannot.

[Marion Fellows]

The hon. Member is, as usual, absolutely right. Oh, how we missed him last week.

Last week, Scope issued its latest Disability Price Tag report. I was privileged to go to its reception last Thursday, along with the hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Vicky Foxcroft). It has always been the case that it costs more just to live if someone is disabled. In times when the cost of living is rising, however, and with huge inflation, it is even worse. Scope said that for a disabled household it can cost an additional £975 a month to have the same standard of living as non-disabled households. If we account for inflation, that cost rises to £1,122 per month. Not one single person in this Chamber believes that disabled households and people are actually getting that kind of money.

Against that worrying backdrop, the SNP remain deeply concerned about the UK Government’s welfare policies. The cost of living payments in 2022 and 2023 were designed to help families meet rising prices. However, according to Scope, 80% of disabled people said those payments were not enough to meet the increased costs they face. That support is welcome—no one is going to say, “No, thank you”—but one-off payments, such as the £650 petitioned for, are only a temporary fix when permanent solutions are needed. Rather than offering one-off payments to shore up the incomes of struggling families, the Government should reverse the damaging policies that are impacting our most vulnerable.

Legacy benefit claimants during the pandemic did not even get the £20 a week increase. They should have had it, they should have had it restored and it should have been increased in the meantime. In its recent submission to the UN Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, Human Rights Watch not only gives a damning review of the UK Government’s restrictive social security policies, such as the two-child limit and the failure to reverse the cut to universal credit, but highlights:

“It is worth noting that the £20 weekly increase was never applied to an estimated 2 million people on ‘legacy’ benefits, who were still waiting to transition to the Universal Credit system”.

The Government have to take on board the lives of disabled people. The continual refusal of the UK Government to fix the extensive known problems with the social security system is unacceptable. I know that in the health and disability White Paper, the Government have looked at promising to do things later, but that is not good enough. We need changes now that actually help vulnerable people.

I always get a bit emotional when I speak in these debates and that is a fault of mine, so please forgive me, Sir Robert. I really think that the Government should look at examples from other places. In Scotland, we try really hard with a fixed budget to make life better for our citizens. The Scottish Government run their social security system on the idea of dignity and fairness, and look to deal more on a daily basis with people who have lived experience. I know that the UK Government are now doing that, and I commend the Minister for it, but they really need to do something along the lines of what the Scottish Government have done; a new disability equality strategy is in preparation, and they will keep working with disabled groups to make it worthwhile and to do stuff that really impacts the lives of disabled people. Recently, the Scottish Government also doubled the fuel insecurity fund to £20 million and confirmed another £20 million for 2023-24. They have introduced a new winter heating payment, which replaces the cold weather payment and provides a stable amount every year to help around 400,000 low-income individuals with heating expenses. Even though there was no statutory requirement to do so, they uprated the winter heating payment by 10.1%.

The Scottish Government have a scheme whereby they look at energy efficiency and fuel poverty. It is important that the UK Government do that, because we leak energy across the UK, especially in the parts that do not have the schemes that the Scottish Government have put in place. The Scottish Government have done everything in their limited powers, but every time they mitigate some of the policies that the UK Government impose on us, they have to take the money from somewhere else. The only answer, as far as I, the SNP and almost 50% of the Scottish population are concerned, is independence.

A social tariff for energy is something that we would support, and it is necessary. The hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys, who is no longer in his place, said it might not work, but we have to grasp every opportunity possible to help disabled households, carers and families who are struggling on a daily basis with the cost of living. Politics is about choice and political will. Can we please see better choices and greater political will from the Government? Will they listen to disabled people and their carers and do better? The personal independence payment, for example, is meant to enhance disabled people’s lives. As has been said already, such payments do not even touch the sides. I ask the Minister to talk about this issue and to comment on social tariffs for energy. Can we please also consider that the best solution for disabled people is to spend less money on things such as replacing Trident and to use the money saved for social benefits, so that people with disabilities, their carers and their families can live better and more cheaply?

I do not think that anyone in this room does not agree that things have to be better for the disabled community, and it is up to the current Government to try their very best, to take on board what other countries are doing, to improve lives and to grant the wish of the petitioners, who were very modest in asking for a £650 one-off payment. That will not be the answer going forward; we need solutions.

People with Disabilities: Cost of Living

Marion Fellows Excerpts

Tuesday 16th May 2023 Westminster Hall

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the cost of living for people with disabilities.

It is a real pleasure to serve under you, Dr Huq. In the years in which I have had the privilege of being the Member of Parliament for Motherwell and Wishaw, I have received loads of briefings from many organisations to support my work in these types of debate. For this debate, I have received a record number of briefings, and they have come from these organisations, which I shall name check: Scope, the Food Foundation, Guide Dogs, the British Association of Social Workers, the MS Society, Which?, Mencap, the Cystic Fibrosis Trust and the Motor Neurone Disease Association. That tells its own story.

Those organisations are so worried. They are telling me that the Government have continuously failed disabled people, their carers and their families; that the Government are tinkering around the edges of a cost of living crisis that is affecting millions of people across the United Kingdom; and that the impact of the crisis affects those with disabilities, their carers and their families even more seriously than it affects the rest of the population.

I woke this morning to the news that the Prime Minister is having a farm-to-fork summit on the cost of food—the figure of 19.1% is being bandied about as a headline for food price inflation—and when I opened my iPad, I read about a father who had admitted to stealing baby formula to feed his child because his wife had been watering down the formula. That is the UK in 2023, and the situation is even worse for disabled households.

Scope’s recent disability price tag report shows that the cost of being disabled in 2023 has risen to £975 per month for a disabled household, inclusive of disability benefits. People do not get disability benefits on top; that is inclusive. The personal independence payment was designed to offset the additional costs associated with being disabled, but it is now totally inadequate. That figure represents a £300 per month increase from 2016-17, when Scope last did this. Scope also says that it would be £1,122 per month if the figure were updated to accommodate the inflationary costs for the 2022-23 period. The bottom line is that Government support for those with disabilities has been wholly inadequate throughout the cost of living crisis. Disability Rights UK has said that the cost of living payments “don’t touch the sides”.

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

The hon. Lady is making a powerful argument. The Resolution Foundation said recently that those with disabilities have 44% less available to spend in the current economic crisis than those of us who are fortunate enough to be fully abled. At a time when energy costs have made life more difficult for everyone, does she think that we have perhaps missed a vital opportunity to support the disabled by helping them more with those costs?

[Marion Fellows]

The hon. Lady will know that I do not often agree with her, but in this case I totally agree. There are many other organisations—she mentioned the Resolution Foundation, and the MND Association has outlined that those with motor neurone disease face additional costs of £14,500 per year. Naturally, those with the condition have much higher energy needs in order to power their essential, life-saving equipment.

[Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab)]

The latest Government statistics show that 68% of PIP decisions appealed by a claimant were overturned. Does the hon. Member agree that there is a pressing need to improve the PIP assessment to ensure that people who are disabled or have a serious health condition do not have to fight continually through reassessments and tribunals to get the support that they so desperately need?

[Marion Fellows]

I could not agree with the hon. Lady more. This is a scandal, and it is a huge waste of public money with the number and cost of appeals and tribunals.

[Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) (Con)]

To follow on from that point, why would the Scottish Government seek to make it harder for people to access support through the PIP system for when it is fully devolved to the Scottish Government?

[Marion Fellows]

I wish that the hon. Member would take that back. In Scotland, we treat people with dignity, fairness and respect. We help them to fill in their adult disability payment applications, and we make it much easier for them—[Interruption.] The hon. Member is shaking his head, but he is wrong. We make it easier for people with long-term illnesses from which they will not recover. They do not have to go through continuous reassessments.

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

Will my hon. Friend point out to the hon. Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) that unlike the UK Government and their pernicious welfare system, the Scottish Government have actually worked with people with experience of the benefits system and those who have disabilities in designing that system? It is rather rich that he lectures us from a Tory Government who have been found to have treated people rather inhumanely.

[Marion Fellows]

I thank my hon. Friend for that. I am appalled at the remarks being made. I shall move forward and I will not take any further interventions in the meantime; I need to make progress.

The insufficient cost of living support, combined with an inadequate system of social security and an economic crisis created by this Government and their predecessors, have created an unwelcome perfect storm for those with disabilities, plunging millions into poverty. Disabled people often face higher costs for their energy, and they are saying that they need more heating—most disabled people need more heating to stay warm. Others say that they must use more electricity simply to plug in their assistive technologies. Those extra costs mean that disabled people have less money in their pockets and, in many cases, go without. The result is that disabled people are more likely to have a lower standard of living, even when they earn the same as a non-disabled person.

According to the British Association of Social Workers, 7 million people—almost half of those living in poverty in the UK—are either disabled or live with someone who has a disability. Families with a disabled loved one are seriously struggling as they have to make difficult decisions and cutbacks. Guide Dogs UK has highlighted how families with a child with visual impairment are being hit incredibly hard, and the mental health of parents is suffering.

The disabled poverty figures are unsurprisingly reflected in food bank usage, with the Trussell Trust advising the Work and Pensions Committee that disabled people are hugely overrepresented in food poverty. More than half of food bank users in the UK are disabled.

The covid pandemic deepened pre-existing inequalities in society for disabled people, and the rise in inflation has disproportionately hurt the most vulnerable in society. Disabled people and their households have, on average, lower incomes than their non-disabled counterparts in spite of incurring higher costs. Poverty and disability are often mutually reinforcing, particularly for working-age adults.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

The hon. Lady is making a powerful speech about the absolute travesty of the Government’s treatment of disabled people and the social security cuts that have been added to by the cost of living crisis. Is she as concerned as I am that there will be consequences, including, as we have seen over the past few years, disabled people on social security who will die?

[Marion Fellows]

That is the most awful fact and the most worrying thing that has been said today. Many of us in this Chamber will have direct knowledge of that from casework and constituents we have had to deal with.

As I said, disabled people tend to spend more on essential goods and services. People with special dietary requirements have been particularly hard hit by food inflation. Statistics from January this year show that households with specific dietary requirements pay up to 73% more for food than those who do not need to buy “free from” products, according to analysis by The Allergy Team.

In December 2022, the Food Standards Agency found that households with food hypersensitivity—food allergy, intolerance and coeliac disease—spent an extra 14p for every £1 compared with those who did not need to buy alternatives. For example, pea milk is £2 a litre—50% more expensive than cow’s milk. Gluten-free penne pasta at Morrisons jumped by 125% in 12 months, from 60p in January 2022 to £1.35 in January this year. I have many other examples.

The SNP urges the Government to use all the powers at their disposal to tackle the cost of living crisis on the scale required. We continue to push them to use their powers to tackle the cost of living crisis, including access to borrowing, providing benefits and support to households, VAT on fuel, taxation of windfall profits and regulation of the energy market. The reversal of the planned increase in the energy price guarantee is welcome, but bills will still be unsustainable for many people. Disabled people and their carers and families across the UK are paying a steep price for the economic mismanagement of the UK Government, with the cost of living forcing many to choose between heating their homes or eating.

Everyone welcomes the UK Government’s increase in benefits by 10.1%. However, the Chancellor has yet again failed to reinstate the universal credit uplift and scrap the unfair benefit cap and two-child limit. Scope stated that a further long-term solution was required to address the crisis of costs that many disabled households now face. Legacy benefit claimants, many of whom are long-term sick or disabled, have been unjustly denied the additional uplift that universal credit claimants got during the pandemic. The SNP has consistently called on the Government to reinstate the uplift and increase it to £25 a week, and to extend it to all means-tested legacy benefits, as well as getting rid of the benefit cap and the two-child limit. The UK Government’s continual refusal to fix the extensive known problems with universal credit is unacceptable and is subjecting vulnerable people to additional unnecessary hardship.

Although a one-off additional payment of—wait for it—£150 to disabled people is welcome, it will not provide the same kind of long-term assistance as a benefits uplift. As I said, Disability Rights UK says that the lack of “meaningful increases” in disability benefits over recent years means that the payment is not enough and does not “touch the sides” of what disabled people, families and carers need. Rising food bank need demonstrates that more and more people are going without the essentials, and the Trussell Trust said:

“The level of benefits, especially benefits for people who are sick and disabled, needs to be high enough for people to live.”

I remember sitting in the main Chamber and listening to a Tory Member who was surprised that sickness benefit was £92-something, which she thought was quite generous. She thought that was a daily rate. It is a weekly rate, and it has not increased by that much. We cannot continue like this. We are punishing the most vulnerable people in our society.

According to a 2020 report from the Royal British Legion and Poppyscotland called “Making the benefits system fit for Service”,

“households containing working age adults in the ex-Service community are over twice as likely to receive sickness or disability benefits as UK adults. Within that increased likelihood there will be veterans in receipt of military compensation who may rely on welfare benefits more than their peers, such as those who are unable to undertake civilian employment due to their injury or disability having left Service ”.

Research participant responses demonstrated common themes, from problems completing applications to difficulties explaining the impact of service-related conditions on wellbeing. The research was conducted prior to the introduction of the adult disability payment in Scotland. I should like to ask the Minister: what are the Government going to do about this scandal? Organisations are telling me that the measures already announced have little or no impact because of spiralling food inflation and energy costs.

According to the House of Commons Library, the Government’s planned expenditure on Trident renewal for 2023-24 is £3 billion. The UK Government are making a political choice to spend vast amounts during a cost of living crisis—an obscene commitment to spend money on the renewal of nuclear weapons in the face of the difficulties being met day and daily by the most vulnerable people in the United Kingdom.

The UK’s recent spring Budget was another missed opportunity for the Government to take meaningful action to boost income and support households, including disabled people—really, you have to do better. The changes to UK benefits and the wider support to better meet the needs of disabled people are welcome, but the effect of those changes must not force more people into low-paid and insecure employment. The disability pay gap must be looked at seriously by the Government. Will the Minister tell us what they are actively doing to end it?

The health and disability White Paper introduces a new universal credit health element, with eligibility through PIP that could be much more restrictive than the work capability assessment. Around 45% of “no work requirements” universal credit recipients in Scotland are not in receipt of either a disability benefit—such as attendance allowance, disability living allowance or personal independence payment—or carer’s allowance. Once the policy is enacted, divergences between PIP and ADP could result in diverging conditionality and spend on universal credit. As the Minister will no doubt acknowledge, I have already raised this issue with him. Can we have an update on what is happening there? Disability organisations are concerned that the changes are likely to see fewer sick and disabled people getting the support they need.

The new in-work progression offer to help people into work, increase their earnings and move them into better-paid jobs will inevitably mean that disabled people are exposed to the sanctions regime. By September this year, 600,000 people claiming universal credit, including disabled people and those with physical and/or mental health conditions, will be required to meet a work coach to increase their hours or earnings or risk being sanctioned. We know that sanctions do not work; the Government admitted that in the paper they kept hidden for quite a long while.

The health and disability White Paper is a missed opportunity to implement much-needed changes. The MS Society has outlined how the Government’s White Paper does not include substantive plans for how the PIP process will be improved or any information on how the criteria may be reformed. Those are real issues right now and there is not much hope, looking forward, for people with disabilities.

The Scottish Government have taken action, within their devolved powers and fixed budget, that will help disabled people facing the combined effects of higher energy bills, rising inflation and UK Government policies. In Scotland, the Government believe that disabled people should have freedom, dignity, choice and control over their lives, and they want to remove barriers that prevent disabled people from enjoying equal access to full citizenship.

The Scottish Government have therefore introduced things such as the fuel insecurity fund. They also work with Fuel Bank Foundation, the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations, Advice Direct Scotland and the Wise Group. Similarly, core staff costs will be provided to Energy Action Scotland, as Scotland’s national fuel poverty charity. The Scottish Government are trying their best; I do not see that level of commitment and action from the UK Government.

Throughout February and March this year, almost 400,000 low-income households in Scotland automatically received £50 in financial support towards their energy bills, in addition to what the UK Government have done. The Scottish Government are also doing a lot of other things, including increasing carer’s allowance. They are doing their best but, without the full powers, including borrowing powers, it is impossible for them to do much more. I should also point out that partnership working is much more normal practice in Scotland. No Government policy is introduced without taking into account the lived experience of people affected by that policy, and I urge this Government to take the same approach.

I realise we are short of time, so I would like to close by pleading with the Government once again to exercise some empathy and compassion for those with disabilities and to try to embody the sense of humanity demonstrated by Kevin Sinfield towards his friend Rob Burrow on Sunday. We must remember that each and any one of us can become disabled. The Government must act now to offer greater support to those with disabilities to offset the additional costs during the cost of living crisis.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

The hon. Lady alluded to the moving and emotional scenes of Kevin Sinfield carrying his friend over the finishing line. Does she agree that that eloquent video spoke more to the heart of the nation than any moves by any Government could ever do, unless they put money where their mouths are?

[Marion Fellows]

I could not have put that better myself; that is so true. I had help writing this speech, as many of us do, and my young researcher put in that reference; I did not see that event, because I did not watch any TV over the weekend—I completely switched off. It is true that something like that brings a nation together to understand how we must be more caring. It is not about being nice to people; it is about enabling them to live full lives as full citizens.

[Debbie Abrahams]

Kevin Sinfield is my constituent and a good friend. The House should know that his fundraising started because he was concerned about the future of his friend and his friend’s family. The families of severely disabled people are worrying for their futures—for their survival. That is what prompted him to start fundraising—not just to do the research, but to ensure they had a future together.

[Marion Fellows]

The question of people becoming disabled through no fault of their own is germane to the entire debate. The perception is often that disabled people are the folk we see in wheelchairs who have always been unable to do things. So many people suffer from disabilities through accident or disease, and none of that is foreseeable—whole lives change.

This is my conclusion, I assure you, Dr Huq. Let me lay out disability organisations’ simple asks, which will improve the lives of so many people. Will the Minister talk about Government funding for a social energy tariff that discounts energy bills by 50% for disabled people, carers and those on low incomes? Could people be automatically enrolled in that scheme and could it be mandatory for all suppliers? Will the Government reverse the warm home discount eligibility criteria changes, uprate benefits in line with inflation and ban all forced installations of prepayment meters? Can hon. Members believe that people with disabilities are having prepayment meters forced on them in 2023? May I have the Minister’s assurance that he will look at all those asks, make sure they are acted on and thus end the misery for so many of our disabled citizens, their carers and their families? They are not asking for charity; they are asking for equity. All the people I have spoken about deserve so much better.

[Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)]

There are three Back Benchers down to speak. I will take the three winding-up speeches from 10.28 am—we do not get any extra time because of the late start—so speeches should be limited to about eight and a half or nine minutes. I call Justin Tomlinson.

--- Later in debate ---

[Marion Fellows]

I really do thank you, Dr Huq, more than anyone else in the Chamber. I thank all Members who have taken part. Most of all, however, I thank all our disability organisations and advisory services, which do such valuable work to help the most vulnerable people in our society—disabled people, their families and their carers.

How we treat our most vulnerable citizens is a political choice for any Government. Tinkering around the edges, which has been the pattern for this Government for a long while, is not what we should be doing. I commend the Minister for the work he has done, as I do his predecessor, with whom I also worked closely, but it takes more than a disabilities Minister to change things in this country. We need full support from the Government and the Treasury, and a change in how we think of disabled people and what we do for them. Politics is the art of the possible. More support is possible, and I can assure everyone here that I will continue to press for it.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the cost of living for people with disabilities.

Asbestos in Workplaces

Marion Fellows Excerpts

Wednesday 19th April 2023 Westminster Hall

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. I congratulate the hon. Member for Loughborough (Jane Hunt) on bringing forward this really important debate and on her wonderful speech, which was well-informed and passionately delivered. I will make a few brief observations and then ask a few questions of the Government.

The management of asbestos in buildings is a reserved matter—it is for the UK Government and the Health and Safety Executive, which has UK-wide responsibility for enforcement of legislation and regulations. The Scottish National party would call for health and safety legislation to be devolved to the Scottish Government so that we can create fairer working practices and conditions and rectify buildings to adequate standards. I do not know whether Members are aware of this, but Scotland is, I believe, the only place in the United Kingdom where people can receive compensation if they develop pleural plaques. I ask the Minister why that is not available across the UK.

I am grateful to the Scottish Trades Union Congress and the TUC, which have given me a really good briefing for today. I have listened to hon. Members carefully, and I note with interest the fact that many have referred to teachers who have been affected. I taught in a further education college, and when I took early retirement in 2011—that worked out well—I was asked to sign a non-disclosure agreement. In it was a paragraph that said I would waive all my rights to claim compensation from the college in the event of my getting asbestosis. I had a good lawyer look at the NDA and I refused to sign it. My remarks to the then principal of the college were, “You worked in that building too. You might want to reconsider putting this in an NDA.”

Asbestosis can affect everyone and can do terrible things. We have heard numerous examples from Members across the spectrum of how people can contract it and the terrible price they pay if they suffer from it or from mesothelioma. It has been difficult to listen to some of the stories we have heard this afternoon, so why will the Government not collect comprehensive and accurate data on the extent, type and condition of all asbestos in public buildings, including schools and this place—as we heard, there have been problems here? Surely it is a false economy not to tackle this issue of asbestos as soon as possible. We cannot keep kicking down the road the dangers people are facing, waiting to see what happens 50 or 60 years on.

The Health and Safety Executive has had a 54% cut in funding. Will the Government commit to reversing those cuts and letting it do its job properly? We heard about the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill and the sunset clause. This has to be addressed. We cannot just ignore this problem.

I thank the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), who chairs the Work and Pensions Committee, for the work it has done. The Government are well aware of what is happening, so I ask them to please do something about it. If not, please devolve the powers to the Scottish Government.

Here is something that no one has mentioned yet: can we have a public awareness campaign on this issue? We all know about it, but there are people outside the House who do not understand. We have all sorts of public campaigns on how to detect cancer; we have all sorts of information and awareness raising. Can the Government confirm that they will look into that for this issue as well?

I also thank, as someone has already done, the TUC, the Joint Union Asbestos Committee and the Asbestos Victims Support Groups’ Forum. This huge issue affects many people, including in my constituency, where there was formerly a steelworks, among other things. But we have to be reminded that it is not just people who worked in heavy industry who contract this disease. Please will the Government take on board everything they have heard this afternoon, answer some of the questions, bring forward help for the future and not keep kicking things down the road?

[Ian Paisley (in the Chair)]

I call the Opposition spokesperson.

--- Later in debate ---

[Marion Fellows]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mims Davies]

I am running out of time, but okay.

[Marion Fellows]

I just wanted to say that my point was to show the difference in the compensation for pleural plaques; I was not insinuating that there was no other compensation in the rest of the UK.

[Mims Davies]

I understand the hon. Lady’s point and I am happy to expand on that further. She will be keen to know that, later this year, the HSE’s “Asbestos and You” campaign will move to a new focus on the duty to manage asbestos safely in buildings by highlighting the requirements placed on those responsible for the buildings to manage any asbestos present.

The Government are not opposed to an asbestos register, or any steps regarding support to improve the safety regime to enable effective risk management. However, I understand from the HSE that the suggestion that Great Britain creates a national register for buildings would need to be considered carefully because of the potential unintended consequences.

In Great Britain, the regulations require duty holders to either survey premises constructed before asbestos was banned or to presume that it is present. Most duty holders decide to survey. and to arrange a register and plan for every room and area detailing the presence of any type of asbestos-containing materials and their condition and quantity. The new register would therefore require significant resources from duty holders and the Government. I understand the point made by the Select Committee Chair. The concern is about duplication of information, and there is no clear understanding that risks of exposure would be improved. We want people to focus on the duty to manage, and to presume that asbestos is in situ, but I will expand on that in my further response.

I will try to conclude, because I believe I am one minute over, Mr Paisley.

Social Mobility

Marion Fellows Excerpts

Tuesday 21st March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. I congratulate the right hon. Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Sir David Evennett), but I also want to chastise him because he has taken some of my best lines.

I, too, am a product of social mobility. My father was a co-operative milkman and my mother was a cleaner. They both left school at 14, but they were determined to give me the chances that they never had. I was the first in my entire family to go to university in the days when many folk considered educating girls to be just a waste of time—she would only get married and have weans. I did both, and now I am here.

I also taught in further education. I know that times have changed, but social mobility is a real issue. Those in poverty cannot be socially mobile. Those who are hungry cannot learn. When fees are a barrier, many cannot access higher education. That is why children in Scotland are lucky. The Scottish Government take their duties to the next generation seriously, and they have introduced many measures to tackle child poverty. The latest iteration is “Best Start, Bright Futures”, which looks at long-term parental employment support, increased social security and measures to reduce household costs. The recent Institute for Fiscal Studies analysis of Scottish tax and benefit reform found that the lowest-income families in Scotland are significantly better off as a result of the Scottish Government’s tax regime.

Among the poorest 30% of households, those with children will see their incomes boosted by a sizeable £2,000 a year on average, driven by higher benefits for families with children. Perhaps the Minister would consider that in relation to the UK. The Scottish child payment has recently been increased immensely. It is now up to £25 a week—the Scottish Government are providing an extra £2.6 million this year—and it is being extended to children up to the age of 16.

Other small independent countries do much better on social mobility. I am thinking of Nordic countries, such as Denmark. According to OECD figures, it takes two generations to increase social mobility in Denmark, but it takes five generations in the United Kingdom. We must look at that.

I do not want to, and cannot, mention everyone, but the hon. Member for Hemsworth (Jon Trickett) caught my attention when he talked about Conservative Members saying that the only way out of poverty is work. That is not the case for those on a zero-hours contract and minimum wage. The living wage, as it is described by the Tory Government, is not enough to live on. That is why many working parents are still getting universal credit. There is something wrong with a system where both parents are working and children, who are our future, will never be able to be socially mobile. They will not know how, because they are being held back by poverty. Will the Minister also look at introducing a minimum support payment for the Child Maintenance Service if parents refuse to pay? I have already spoken to her about this.

Social mobility is important. Social mobility actually works. Social mobility means that we will prosper, right across the UK. Countries, such as Norway, which give their citizens high social benefits, are not poor countries. They make people’s lives better and therefore increase social mobility. I will sit down now, because I am really interested in what the Minister and the Opposition have to say.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (in the Chair)]

I call Alison McGovern, who also has five minutes.

Health and Disability White Paper

Marion Fellows Excerpts

Thursday 16th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Scottish National party spokes- person.

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

Why do this Government intend to expose more disabled people to the punitive benefits sanction regime? It does not work, and the automation of sanctions will make the position even worse.

Why was there no guidance in the White Paper on statutory timescales for reasonable adjustments to enable more disabled people and those with long-term conditions to work? The SNP and many stakeholders continue to call for urgent improvements to end the payment gap. Why is there no mention of that? Why will the Government not ensure that flexible working is a day one right by default, rather than the onus being on the worker? Why is there no uplift for legacy disability claimants who were missed out during the pandemic? PIP assessments are already failing many disabled people and forcing them into challenging decisions which are ultimately overturned. Why is more being added to PIP assessments?

Will the Minister consider using dignity, fairness and respect as the White Paper proceeds into legislation, as the Scottish Government do?

[Tom Pursglove]

I would argue that dignity, fairness and respect underpin all the work that I do as Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work, all the work of my colleagues in in the Department for Work and Pensions and, of course, all the work of our officials, who approach their responsibilities with real seriousness and want to help and support people in a way that is appropriate for them. That goes to the heart of these reforms.

This is about a tailored approach, whereby people are helped into work when that is appropriate for them. When we can improve people’s health outcomes, we ought to be doing so in a joined-up way. No one will be forced to do anything that is not appropriate for them. As I said earlier, I want people to feel that they would want to engage with the employment support we are offering, and that is reflected in the fact that so many disabled people tell us that they wish to try these opportunities, but fear losing their support if it does not work out.

The PIP journey is now down to 14 weeks, but there is more to do in that regard. I am not complacent about it, and I want to drive forward work on digitalisation. Let me also say that I have a very constructive working relationship with the Scottish Government Minister with responsibilities in this area, and I absolutely commit myself to working with him as we deliver this reform. I know I am set to meet the hon. Lady next week, when we may be able to follow up some of these points.

Oral Answers to Questions

Marion Fellows Excerpts

Monday 6th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

This might help the Minister, who is very aware that disabled people are more likely to live in poverty than non-disabled people and are particularly vulnerable to the cost of living, as has been demonstrated by colleagues. Legacy benefit claimants, many of whom are long-term sick or disabled, have been unjustly denied the additional uplift that universal credit claimants got during the pandemic. Will the Minister commit to remedying that injustice by reintroducing the universal uplift, increasing it to £25 a week and giving it to all legacy benefit claimants?

[Tom Pursglove]

I thank the hon. Lady for her suggestion of new policy. As a Government Minister, I am not in a position to create new policy on the hoof. What I would say, however, is that there are significant cost of living support measures in place, and individuals will be able to access the support that is appropriate for them.

Labour Market Activity

Marion Fellows Excerpts

Tuesday 28th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

A pilot starts today that will force thousands of universal credit claimants to attend a jobcentre 10 times in two weeks. To put that in context, a claimant living in Shotts will have to get on a bus to Motherwell, costing £3.50 a day, to attend these meetings. They run the risk of being sanctioned if they do not do it, and that is as we are seeing the highest cost of living increases in 40 years. I find it hard to see the sense in this. People who are sanctioned will fall further back, as they will be able to claim less and less from the UK benefits system. It does not make sense. Many times in this Chamber I have heard Ministers and Government Back Benchers say that the only way out of poverty is work, but it is not when someone is on a zero-hours contract, earning the minimum wage and that does not cover their costs.

It also does not work when someone is further sanctioned for not getting on a bus that costs £3.50 a day, which comes out of money they do not really have, to attend the local jobcentre, where there are no additional staff to help them into work because the Government are not going to put more workers behind this. All this comes at a time when the Public and Commercial Services Union is already out on strike because of the workload that its members face in trying to get people into work. None of this makes sense in the world in which my constituents live and in respect of the benefits that they claim. In my opinion, and that of many of the folk in my party, it is criminal that this Government refuse to give young people the same benefits as other workers. If we want to get people into work and keep them in work, they need to be well paid for it and they need to be fit to work.

That leads me to some of the ridiculous things that happen to folk who are disabled, where one of the worst problems we have is on statutory sick pay. Many disabled people, having fought through the Access to Work legislation and trying to get things made easier for them to attend work, find that sometimes they cannot work because they have become unwell because of their disability. Instead of being able to keep in work, they find that statutory sick pay, at £96-something a week, going up to a whole £109 a week, for only 28 weeks, is ridiculous. The waiting time that these people are forced to keep to in order to get SSP makes things even more difficult, so what do they do? They leave work because they can see no way forward. This has to be urgently addressed.

The Government could naturally make things easier by applying a fair work policy, as they do in Scotland, and attaching it to Government contracts to ensure that anyone who is given a job that is funded by Government is paid a reasonable wage. As my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens) said, if people are paid more, they spend more and the economy benefits. This is not rocket science, but pure common sense.

At this point, I want to examine what this Government have done. They have never brought forward the stuff that they said they would do on workers’ rights. They have never brought forward what they said they would do in an employment Bill. They have never done what they promised for quite a long time. They have had consultations, which they are very good at, but they do not carry through. In terms of one such consultation, I am really looking forward to the health and disability White Paper and the overhaul of the work capability assessment. Disabled people must be treated with dignity, fairness and respect, as we do in Scotland under the new Social Security Scotland work.

A constituent of mine was diagnosed as terminally ill four years ago, and was hauled in for a work assessment and practically asked why she was still here and whether she thought that she would die soon; this was in order for her to keep going on her personal independence payment assessment. I know that does not relate exactly to what is on the Order Paper, but I have questioned Ministers on it. This Government need to get their act together and treat people who want to work with dignity, fairness and respect, as we do in Scotland, and make it easier for them to work.

Child Maintenance Services

Marion Fellows Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Westminster Hall

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Twigg. I congratulate the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) on securing the debate, and I thank him for chairing the APPG on child maintenance services this morning. As the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) alluded to, I have done this before. In fact, I have lost track of the number of times I have taken part in or led debates on the Child Maintenance Service. It is quite difficult to stand here and recall that nothing appears to have changed in the seven and a half years I have been pursuing this important topic. I will try to remain calm and measured and not get upset, as I sometimes do when thinking of the cases that have gone through my constituency office.

I want to make it clear that I am not here raging against paying parents alone. I am not here raging against receiving parents alone. I am here, as I have always been in these debates, to help the children involved. It is important that we all remember that, at the end of these esoteric debates, with everything we talk about, there are children who—through no fault of their own—are being pushed into poverty and who are part of the emotional abuse that sometimes takes place when parents separate.

I will do the formal bit—the bit with figures. DWP figures show that since 2012, when the CMS began, £512.6 million in unpaid maintenance has accumulated. That does not take into account the maintenance arrears that the CSA accrued over time. The CMS was supposed to be an improvement on the CSA system, but I cannot see—nor have I ever been able to see—that that is the case. The SNP—in the whole—and I have repeatedly called for effective enforcement action to be taken in the collection of maintenance arrears. Gingerbread ran a huge campaign on the issue as well. Some children go right through the system without getting what they should and then pass out of the system. They have been brought up in poverty as a result of parents not paying what they should.

There need to be much stronger systems and more resource dedicated to tackling parents who attempt to avoid or minimise child support payments and who do not pay what has been agreed. The withholding or restricting of child maintenance payments can be used as a tool for economic abuse. According to DWP data, in the quarter ending September 2022, 53% of new applicants on CMS were recognised as survivors of domestic abuse. It is not just physical abuse we are talking about here, but economic abuse. The hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West talked about the nasty remarks made on bank statements as part of the reference for money paid by paying parents. I want to thank the person who came to speak to the APPG this morning about the economic abuse side of this issue. You will forgive me, Mr Twigg—I have covered this table in papers and I cannot find the name I am looking for—but we heard from a member of Surviving Economic Abuse, which has been working on this issue for a number of years.

Some paying parents continue the economic abuse of their previous partners to the detriment of their children. It is utterly shameful. Little is done when a paying parent pays a token amount; it seems to halt processes at CMS, meaning that those children do not get what they are entitled to and—especially nowadays, in a cost of living crisis—what they absolutely need to keep themselves out of poverty. Children in poverty do not thrive and, at the end of the day, are not able to contribute to society in the way that they might otherwise have done.

[Jamie Stone]

The hon. Lady is speaking with extraordinary power on this issue. Does she agree that even if a child is fortunate enough to get through this, it can still leave a mark on them for the rest of their lives?

[Marion Fellows]

I have papers in front of me from a case in my constituency. The parents have separated, and the father was going through court to try to get residency for his daughter. His daughter has now left school, and his ex-partner is still claiming child benefit, which is an abuse of the social security system. His daughter has now left home, is impoverished and has no contact with her father. He sees this as a failure of the state to help bring up his daughter properly. He has been paying, but he has now tried to walk away from the court case because he cannot afford to continue. It also would have meant that his ex-partner ended up in prison. It is a terrible case. I did say I would not get involved and get too emotional, but it is difficult to listen to what happens to children because of failures in the CMS.

A Joseph Rowntree Foundation report from 2020 found that nearly half of children in lone-parent families are in poverty. This has to stop. Satwat Rehman, the chief executive of One Parent Families Scotland, said:

“parents are facing huge delays in hearing back, poor customer service, and ultimately a failure to collect payments”

at

“a time when the cost of living is rising to impossible levels”.

Victoria Benson, chief executive of Gingerbread, said:

“Child maintenance is not a ‘nice to have’ luxury, in many cases it makes the difference between a family keeping their heads above water or plunging into poverty.”

Mumsnet founder Justine Roberts said:

“Providing for your children is a fundamental responsibility, and it’s genuinely surprising that the Child Maintenance Service allows so many adults to evade it. Children from these families deserve better than to be treated as collateral damage when relationships break down.”

The Scottish Government do all they can to mitigate child poverty. The child payment fund in Scotland, which has been quadrupled recently, is a good start, but it is still not enough. The real issue is that the CMS isnae working. That is it in a nutshell. Parents spend hours on the phone—either the paying parent or the parent with care—and they do not get the same person on every call. They get conflicting advice, they end up in tears and they end up wasting their entire weekend with worry, as Members have said. It is not good enough.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Looking back to the contribution from one of my constituents at the APPG this morning, the problem is not just the communication between the CMS and the constituent, but the fact that constituents are told they will get a call back. On several occasions that has not happened. Does the hon. Member agree that that adds to the poor mental wellbeing of those parents?

--- Later in debate ---

[Marion Fellows]

I could not agree more. I have numerous cases like that, and I have had them over the piece.

I want to commend Cyrene Siriwardhana, who was the person from Surviving Economic Abuse who spoke this morning. She raised the issue of how, when the paying parent is charged an additional 20% in collect and pay because they do not have a voluntary arrangement, that leads to even more economic abuse of parents. They game the system; they pay a little, and everything stops. Then, eventually, they pay a little more. That just is not right.

One difficulty in all this is the lack of communication between the DWP and HMRC. Many parents have provided the CMS with evidence about what their ex-partner is earning and doing, only to be told, “We cannot help.” HMRC is also involved and does nothing either. It is imperative that we get the system to work properly for the children involved and that we stop parents gaming the system.

I was encouraged by the issuing of today’s report and the Government’s response to Dr Callan’s independent review of the Child Maintenance Service response to domestic abuse. I was glad to see that the Government have accepted almost all the recommendations. However, I am concerned that the last one—recommendation 10—has been declined. They should all be accepted.

The last one recommended that the DWP produce an implementation plan with a specifically tasked team within the civil service to take forward the recommendations, with a remit to report directly to the independent reviewer. I try not to be a cynic. I try very hard to see the best in everyone and to believe that the Government really want to help the children who are suffering because they are not getting their maintenance payments. Recommendation 10 would be a good way to keep all the review recommendations that have been accepted firmly on track.

I find it difficult to trust a Government whom I have been calling on for seven and a half years to make changes to help parents who have to go to the collect and pay system and in many cases have no choice. The Government have made various concessions over the years—they said they would take away people’s passports, for instance, but they have not really done that or taken other measures to try to enforce payment. The issue is really important. Can the Minister tell me why the Government declined that last recommendation?

I have spoken briefly to the Minister before. One of the other issues that we have as parliamentarians, and especially as Back Benchers, is that the Minister responsible for the CMS—I am not entirely certain how long this has been the case, but I think it matches my tenure in this place—has always been based in the House of Lords. That means that every time we have a debate in the Chamber or Westminster Hall, we do not get to look into the eyes of the Minister responsible for the Child Maintenance Service. I have had many meetings with Baroness Stedman-Scott over the years and I look forward to having many meetings with Viscount Younger of Leckie. However, I would be much happier if I could have a debate with the Minister directly responsible for the Child Maintenance Service so I could take forward some of the worst cases that I have and have had in my caseload over the past seven and a half years.

In conclusion, we have to stop having these debates about the Child Maintenance Service, how it is failing and what needs to be done to improve it. We just need the Government to get on with it. We need them to do the right thing and make sure that children do not live in poverty because two or three Government Departments cannot get their act together and chase down people who are abusing either the DWP benefits system or the HMRC system for paying tax because they are working in the black economy and their earnings cannot be shown and used in calculations for what is due to the children.

I will sit down now because I do not want to get started on how the CMS calculates payments. I could be here for another hour. Will the Minister please look at the issue and give us a good reason why the Government have not accepted recommendation 10? We need to know that the Government will do what they say they will do, and that will go back to Dr Callan, as the independent reviewer.