Asbestos in Workplaces

Mims Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 19th April 2023 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Jane Hunt) for bringing this important debate to the House. I too extend my heartfelt sympathy to all those individuals in Great Britain and beyond who have lost a loved one or a colleague, or who are living with the impact of asbestos-related disease. I thank all hon. Members across the House for coming here to talk about their concerns, their impactful stories and their truths, as well as all the members of the public in the Gallery who have joined this afternoon.

Asbestos continues to be a problem experienced around the globe. As my hon. Friend mentioned in her opening remarks, earlier this month the United Kingdom joined other countries in recognising Global Asbestos Awareness Week, designed to remind us all of the impact of asbestos-related disease and how it continues to be felt. As the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) said, I shall be talking about raising awareness later in my speech, but I wanted to take this opportunity to welcome the important work done by charities to support people affected by this devastating disease, such as the charity Mesothelioma UK, which is based in my hon. Friend’s constituency, and all those who do the great campaign work that has been outlined today.

I agree with the hon. Member for Bradford East (Imran Hussain). Asbestos was banned in Great Britain in 1999, and stringent interventions and regulatory controls are now in place to prevent people from being exposed to it, but I assure the House and all those listening to or reading the debate that I too, when preparing for the debate, put similar searching questions to the HSE and my colleagues at the Department for Work and Pensions property team, one of whom is a former HSE inspector and removal specialist. I have not just come here to read the speech I have been given, and I hope that that reassures everyone.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

In this analysis, will the Minister include the problem of unmarked dumps around the country, particularly Ministry of Defence dumps, which are highly likely to include large quantities of very dangerous blue asbestos, which is probably the worst type?

[Mims Davies]

I have a feeling I will be sent a note on that, and I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. We have spoken about a lot of matters this afternoon, and I hope I will be forgiven if I do not respond to every question. I shall respond to some, and I assure right hon. and hon. Members and the Chair of the Select Committee, the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), that I shall put a copy of the responses in the Library of the House.

Under the law on dumping locations, asbestos must be disposed of in licensed sites, but we are aware of some issues of illegal dumping. The HSE supports local authorities in their enforcement responsibilities in this area, but I will take that point away.

Before I move on, I will try to answer some questions before progressing with my speech. On the question regarding asbestos research from the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw, the Health and Safety Executive has published a comprehensive science and evidence strategy associated with a delivery plan, and it includes commitments. It will continue to research and publish those findings.

On the retained EU law questions, the focus continues to be on ensuring appropriate regulatory frameworks, and maintaining the United Kingdom’s high standards for health and safety protection, but we balance that with reductions in burdens to business. The HSE’s approach is closely aligned with the Government’s pledges to do more for business, to promote growth, to deal with disproportionate burdens and to simplify the regulatory landscape.

Our standards are all about health and safety protections, and they are among the highest in the world. The HSE will continue to review its retained EU law to seek to look at the opportunities, but it always looks at what is happening around the globe, as has been mentioned.

[Sir Stephen Timms]

I do not think the Minister would suggest that we should scrap all asbestos regulations for the first time since 1930, so that does imply that there will be some secondary legislation. Can she give us any indication of when that will be forthcoming?

[Mims Davies]

I assure the right hon. Gentleman that we are looking at exactly that at the moment. The rules and regulations are for the HSE. It has the experts and it needs to do what it sees fit. I will be looking very closely at the HOUSE, which will be bringing proposals to Ministers; that is being looked at currently. As soon as I have more to share, I will do so. We are clear that the HSE is committed to its regulatory role and to supporting wider Government priorities.

The right hon. Member for East Ham, who chairs the Work and Pensions Committee, talked about resourcing, as did other Members. We know that this area is highly risky. Licence holders—those who undertake removal work—are individually reviewed and that is followed up. The inspections are really important. Our end-to-end approach provides assurance that the licensing regime is fit for purpose and working effectively. The HSE takes that very seriously. In ’23-24, as part of its planned inspection activity, the HSE will continue to carry out inspections across the construction industry where asbestos exposure risks continue to be raised. Inspection work in schools and other organisations, which has been mentioned this afternoon, will continue to happen to effectively manage that asbestos legacy.

The HSE allocates budgets and resources on the basis of levels of expected interventions, including inspection, investigation and enforcement activity, and does not allocate budgets at sub-activity level, such as for construction and health inspection. We have a range of different interventions and a way of doing things on which the HSE is very strident, and I reassure the House that nothing has changed.

I will mention NDAs, because, like others, I have been appalled this afternoon to hear about the issues affecting teachers. This is a matter for the Department for Education, but I will ask my officials to raise it with the DFE so that a response can be provided.

The hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw asked how we are supporting people suffering with asbestos-related diseases. In 2022-23—it says ’23-24 in my notes; I do not think that is right, but I will get my officials to check whether that is the case—1,890 payable industrial injuries disablement benefit assessments took place, and the scheme provides a weekly payment based on the assessed level of disablement. I will write to the hon. Lady with further details and confirmation for her. There are lump sum compensation payments as well, and I am happy to send her further details on that.

[Marion Fellows]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mims Davies]

I am running out of time, but okay.

[Marion Fellows]

I just wanted to say that my point was to show the difference in the compensation for pleural plaques; I was not insinuating that there was no other compensation in the rest of the UK.

[Mims Davies]

I understand the hon. Lady’s point and I am happy to expand on that further. She will be keen to know that, later this year, the HSE’s “Asbestos and You” campaign will move to a new focus on the duty to manage asbestos safely in buildings by highlighting the requirements placed on those responsible for the buildings to manage any asbestos present.

The Government are not opposed to an asbestos register, or any steps regarding support to improve the safety regime to enable effective risk management. However, I understand from the HSE that the suggestion that Great Britain creates a national register for buildings would need to be considered carefully because of the potential unintended consequences.

In Great Britain, the regulations require duty holders to either survey premises constructed before asbestos was banned or to presume that it is present. Most duty holders decide to survey. and to arrange a register and plan for every room and area detailing the presence of any type of asbestos-containing materials and their condition and quantity. The new register would therefore require significant resources from duty holders and the Government. I understand the point made by the Select Committee Chair. The concern is about duplication of information, and there is no clear understanding that risks of exposure would be improved. We want people to focus on the duty to manage, and to presume that asbestos is in situ, but I will expand on that in my further response.

I will try to conclude, because I believe I am one minute over, Mr Paisley.

[Ian Paisley (in the Chair)]

You’re okay.

[Mims Davies]

Are you okay with that? Thank you very much.

The challenge, as we all know, is that there is no easy way of safely removing asbestos from buildings, and disturbing asbestos inevitably creates fibre release and increases the risk to health. Provided it is in good condition, the HSE confirms that it is likely to be safest to remove asbestos at the end of a building’s life. If removal is in a staged and phased way, there is a pathway for Great Britain no longer to have asbestos in its workplaces, as we have heard this afternoon.

I have much more to say, which I will share with the House in a further response, but I hope that my remarks now have reassured Members that the current regulatory regime and framework for Great Britain remains sufficiently robust and enables the legacy of asbestos exposure risk in workplaces to be managed. I will comment on the concern about women later in my broader remarks, because I am conscious that I have not had time to respond now. I strongly want to continue to work with Members, the sector, campaigners and the HSE to ensure that we develop an asbestos-free Great Britain, as my predecessor my right hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith) said. I take on board all elements of the debate today, and will continue to work robustly with the HSE, the Select Committee and all campaigners to deliver that.