Civil Aviation Bill

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Wednesday 13th June 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Earl Attlee]

That the Bill be read a second time.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we are an island nation and our access to the rest of the world—and the rest of the world’s access to us—is primarily through air travel. That is why the aviation sector is so important to our economy. In 2010, goods worth £113 billion were moved by air between the UK and non-EU countries. In the same year, UK airports served nearly 400 international destinations. That level of activity is possible because over the past 30 years the aviation industry has changed to meet the needs of the customer. The emergence of low-cost carriers is one example of how the industry has innovated and diversified. There has also been an increase in the number of people travelling by air in this country, from 59 million passengers in 1982 to 211 million in 2010.

While the sector has changed dramatically, the regulatory framework which governs it has not. Much of our aviation regulation originated in the 1980s, and needs to be brought into the 21st century. The Government are committed to bringing vital reform to our aviation regulation. In a moment I will set out this reform in more detail, but let me first make clear the important theme that runs through the Bill: putting the interests of the passenger at the heart of airport regulation. For the first time, the CAA’s primary economic regulation duty will be to users of air transport services—that is, the passengers and owners of cargo.

The Bill introduces reform in four areas: the economic regulation of airports, the legislative framework of the CAA, the Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing scheme, and aviation security. I would like to explain each of these in turn, beginning with the reform to the economic regulation of airports. In the UK, the gas, electricity, water, telecoms and post sectors all have some level of economic regulation. Economic regulation typically operates through an independent regulator capping the prices that companies with substantial market power are able to charge and specifying levels of service quality. Much of the aviation industry in this country is competitive. That is how the Government prefer it to be. Effective competition gives firms the incentives to invest and improve efficiency, choice, and service quality.

However, a small number of airports—currently Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted—have substantial market power and are not subject to sufficient levels of competition. In order to replicate the effects of a competitive market on these airports, the CAA exercises its powers of economic regulation in the form of price caps and service quality requirements. However, there is compelling evidence that the framework for the economic regulation of airports needs updating. The Competition Commission has concluded that the regime distorts competition between airlines and should be reformed. Advice from an independent panel of experts and responses from three evidence-gathering exercises has further indicated that the current regime is not fit for purpose. I should also add that the previous Government agreed that reform is necessary—a fact that helps explain the considerable degree of cross-party support the Bill has attracted so far.

The most common criticisms of the current regime are that the regulation is disproportionate and difficult to adapt to individual airports, that the CAA is unable to respond effectively to extraordinary events such as volcanic ash or extreme weather, that the regulator is insufficiently accountable for its decisions and its priorities are unclear, and that the regulatory process is burdensome and inefficient. The Bill would remedy these problems.

Where the current legislation gives the CAA four separate and sometimes competing duties, the Bill replaces them with a primary duty to passengers and owners of cargo. Where the CAA is presently constrained by rigid rules that require it to set five-year price caps when regulating dominant airports, the Bill would give the CAA a modern licensing system. Under this new system, licence conditions could be tailored to individual airports to tackle specific challenges at particular times. This licensing system would also enable the CAA to reduce the degree of economic regulation imposed on individual airports if it believed that this would benefit passengers. For example, instead of controlling prices, it could monitor prices while regulating certain aspects of service quality. The new system would also enable the CAA to impose different regulatory time periods. For example, setting longer periods for price controls would provide greater certainty and could stimulate investment.

Currently, it is the responsibility of the Secretary of State to decide which airports should be subject to economic regulation. The Bill proposes that the CAA, as an independent and expert body, should make that decision against clearly defined criteria set out in the legislation. Another criticism of the current regime is the lack of accountability it provides for key regulatory decisions. At present, judicial review is the only way to challenge the CAA’s decisions on the price cap and service quality standards that airports must meet. Under the Bill, the licence conditions imposed will be appealable by the licence holders and materially affected airlines. These appeals will be made to the Competition Commission, thereby removing the need to go straight to judicial review. The decision on whether an airport is dominant will be also be appealable to the Competition Appeal Tribunal. To summarise, the reforms will deliver a new system of regulation that is fairer, more flexible, and more focused than the current regime.

I turn to reforming the legislative framework of the CAA itself. Measures in Part 2 of the Bill will change the way in which the CAA operates, improving transparency and accountability; removing unnecessary government involvement and funding; and cutting red tape. The Government believe that a more transparent system of providing information would be of benefit to the public. At the moment it is very difficult for passengers to compare air services—for example, to establish which airline is most likely to lose luggage, or which airport garners the most complaints from passengers. It is also difficult for consumers to find out environmental information about aviation.

In 2011, PricewaterhouseCoopers looked at the reports of 46 world airlines and found, for example, that only one-third reported on their noise levels. The Bill will create a new duty for the CAA to publish, or arrange for the aviation sector to publish, information to help users compare services. The CAA will also be given a duty to inform the public about the environmental effects of civil aviation in the UK. It is important that these duties are performed proportionately, so the CAA will have to consult on its approach and have regard to the principle that the benefits of taking action should outweigh any adverse effects.

Other measures to modernise the legislative framework of the CAA include giving the CAA new freedoms to appoint its own executive directors. Where at the moment the CAA has recourse only to slow, costly, and often disproportionate criminal sanctions in enforcing regulations, the Bill will enable the Secretary of State to give the CAA powers to enforce offences through civil sanctions. I am pleased to say that Part 2 of the Bill also brings forward a recommendation that was made by this House.

In the course of its licensing duties, the CAA collects medical data on individuals in the air transport industry. In 2007, your Lordships’ Committee on Science and Technology, as part of its inquiry into air travel and health, recommended that anonymised medical data held by the CAA should be made available for ethically approved medical research. Clause 104 meets this recommendation. Of course, we have built in safeguards to help to ensure these data are used appropriately. I urge your Lordships to read the appropriate section carefully.

I will now move on to our proposals to improve the regulation of aviation security. Keeping people safe and secure when they travel is of prime importance. At present, aviation safety is regulated by the CAA, while security regulation is carried out by the DfT. The Bill would move security regulation from the DfT to the expert regulator, the CAA. On both safety and security, the aviation industry would have to deal with only one regulator, not two. The move would have the further advantage of bringing the “user pays” principle to aviation security. The costs of the aviation industry should, as far as possible, be paid for by the people who use it. At the moment, the aviation industry pays for safety regulation, but the public purse pays for security regulation. The position under the Bill would be fairer.

The final measure in the Bill that I will mention, which accounts for just one clause, Clause 94, is the reform to the Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing scheme—ATOL for short. Over the years the ATOL scheme has given peace of mind to millions of holidaymakers who have known that because their holiday is covered by the scheme they will not be left stranded or out of pocket if their travel company becomes insolvent. However, diversification in the holiday market since the scheme was set up—in particular, the changes associated with internet booking—mean that it is no longer clear to some consumers whether their holiday is ATOL-protected or not.

Certain sorts of holiday—for example, those sold by airlines and on an agent for the consumer basis—cannot currently be required to be included in the ATOL scheme because they fall outside the relevant powers in Section 71 of the Civil Aviation Act 1982. So Clause 94 of this Bill would allow us to improve clarity for the consumer, by giving the Secretary of State powers to add more holidays to the ATOL scheme, including holidays sold by airlines and agents for the consumer. This should also mean that businesses selling holidays that include a flight will have a more coherent and consistent regulatory framework in which to operate.

The Civil Aviation Bill has undergone thorough scrutiny—

[Lord Clinton-Davis]

The Minister is right to stress the importance of aviation to this country. Does it not follow that the pilots are an extremely important part of that? Why did 91% of the members of the BALPA union consider the Government to be not supporting the industry sufficiently? Is that not a serious point that ought to be taken into account?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am sure it is a very serious point. I will be meeting representatives of BALPA shortly, certainly before the Committee stage starts.

The Transport Committee found the Bill to be clearly welcomed by the aviation industry, including airlines, airports and the CAA. It also found that the draft Bill has been,

“subject to detailed review and consultation over a lengthy period”—

and, although it raised some points which have since been picked up in the Commons, it found that the Bill—

“appears to offer a better way to regulate UK airports in the future”.

I look forward to debating the merits of the Bill with your Lordships in this Chamber. I am confident that we will maintain the high level of scrutiny that the Bill deserves and has attracted so far.

I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we have conducted a full and wide-ranging debate on the merits of the Bill. Many noble Lords have made the case for the continuing importance of our aviation sector. The continuing success of the industry is essential to our economic growth. The reforms in the Bill have been designed to allow competition to flourish and for our aviation industry to innovate and thrive. The Government, the Opposition, the regulator and the wider aviation industry all support the Bill.

I shall now endeavour to respond to some of the points made by noble Lords but they will understand if I have to be selective in what I reply to. I am grateful for the thoughtful and generally helpful response from the noble Lords, Lord Davies of Oldham and Lord Rosser. I am very happy to accept that the previous Administration put a lot of work into the Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Davies, complained that the Government did not accept Front Bench amendments in another place. Of course, our roles are now reversed and I am sure that the same accusation could have been levelled at the noble Lord when he was in government.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies, mentioned climate change. He and the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, will recognise that the Bill is about regulation of the aviation industry. However, I look forward to seeing the noble Lord’s amendment on carbon emissions and how they will work within the confines of the Chicago Convention. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, offered gentle criticism of the aviation industry. He will be aware that the new generation of aircraft is much quieter and much more efficient.

My noble friend Lord Bradshaw and the noble Lord, Lord Soley, talked about the problem of stacking. The Civil Aviation Authority’s future airspace strategy deals with this problem and one or two others. The Director of Airspace Policy at the CAA recently made a presentation to your Lordships on the possibilities of the future airspace strategy. My noble friend Lord Bradshaw talked about the possibilities of other UK airports and, for his pains, he got a response from the noble Lord, Lord Soley, about hub connectivity.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham, and many other noble Lords, raised the issue of capacity at Heathrow. They recognise, of course, that the Bill deals with regulation but I am happy to respond. The Government recognise the need to maintain the UK’s excellent connectivity now, and in the longer term. This is why we will issue a call for evidence later this summer alongside our consultation on the draft aviation policy framework to explore the options to achieve this. We remain committed to adopting the aviation policy framework by March 2013.

The coalition Government’s position regarding a third runway, mixed mode, and the planning cap on air traffic movements at Heathrow has not changed. I can assure noble Lords that we will follow a proper process in developing a long-term aviation policy which is in the UK’s best interests.

[Lord Clinton-Davis]

Is it still the noble Earl’s view that the Government are ruling out a third runway at Heathrow?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I repeat: I can assure the noble Lords that we will follow a proper process in developing a long-term aviation policy which is in the UK’s best interests.

[Lord Clinton-Davis]

Time without number it is reiterated that a third runway is to be ruled out and several other government Ministers have said the same. What is the present policy?

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Lord’s comments are accurate but the words I have just repeated are very carefully thought out. I must move on.

These measures are consistent with the Government’s commitment to runway alternation at Heathrow and the trial—that is, the operational freedoms—will not increase the number of flights at the airport, which remains capped at current levels. I can assure my noble friend Lord Patten that the Bill does not interfere with the aviation policy framework. The two issues are separate; future developments will not be inhibited.

I welcome the comments on the environment—particularly from the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham, and many other noble Lords. The issue was also debated at some length in another place. I have listened very carefully to the points raised today. I agree that further consideration should be given to the clarity in the Bill regarding the role of the CAA in allowing licence holders to recover the costs of taking reasonable measures to mitigate the adverse environmental effects of airports in carrying out its functions. Therefore, I look forward to further discussions in Committee. It will, however, be important to get the correct balance between conflicting interests. This will be challenging and we must get it right.

Many noble Lords raised the issue of the NAO auditing the CAA. I am still not persuaded that there are convincing reasons to believe that NAO scrutiny would deliver a better result than the current and planned mechanisms by which the CAA’s functions are audited and scrutinised. In his review of the CAA, Sir Joseph Pilling considered this and concurred that he saw no need for the NAO to be involved directly. Ministers in the previous Government subsequently accepted this recommendation. I have yet to see convincing reasons why they were wrong and nothing has happened since to suggest that this advice needs to be reviewed.

I am not convinced that NAO scrutiny would be more effective than the current system which includes the following elements: the Secretary of State appoints the CAA’s auditors; the Secretary of State places the CAA’s accounts before Parliament; the Secretary of State approves the CAA’s borrowing and sets its required rate of return on capital; the Secretary of State appoints the CAA’s chair and non-executive board members; the CAA’s audit committee is made up of non-executive members who are appointed by the Secretary of State; and the CAA consults on its fees and will be required to do so under the changes set out in Clause 100. In addition, over the period 2001 to 2011, the CAA reduced its operating costs in real terms by 20%. I note that some noble Lords suggested additional functions or capability that the CAA should acquire.

Following discussion in another place on 25 April in the Bill Committee, the Minister, my right honourable friend Theresa Villiers, announced a new non-legislative measure to increase the transparency of the CAA’s moves towards greater efficiency. On an annual basis, the Department for Transport issues a report direction and an accounts direction to the CAA specifying the matters that should be addressed in the authority’s annual report and accounts. From 2013 onwards, the Secretary of State will strengthen the scrutiny of the CAA by including in the annual directions a requirement to include an efficiency statement in the annual report.

I am grateful for the contribution from my noble friend Lord Trefgarne about general aviation. The primary duty will be capable of capturing general aviation interests where they are aligned with the interests of users of air transport services. Broadly speaking, users of transport services will be passengers and freight owners using air services to and from the UK—including future users. In so far as owners of small aircraft fall within this, they will be covered. It can also be noted that only around 0.1% of flights at regulated airports comprise general aviation.

My noble friend Lord Jenkin of Roding raised concern that an airline right of appeal touching on an airport’s financial arrangements would seriously inhibit the airport’s ability to raise finances. The noble Lord, Lord Soley, and my noble friend Lord Bradshaw raised similar concerns. The Government remain of the opinion that there are good reasons to include financial resilience licence conditions, with appropriate derogations where these cut across existing financing. We also remain of the opinion that the broad rights of appeal in the Bill provide an effective means of improving the accountability of key regulatory decisions and enable the interest of both airport operators and materially affected airlines to be taken into account in the licence process.

We believe that it is correct that the right of appeal extends to financial resilience licence conditions. Any dispute as to whether a derogation would cause a breach of the existing financial arrangements is most likely to arise from questions of law over the true construction of a loan agreement and/or licence condition. These could ultimately be resolved through judicial review and, in the mean time, an airport operator could seek an injunction to preserve the status quo. Markets should therefore be reassured that the risk of existing creditor protection in an airport operator’s funding structure being unintentionally removed, triggering an event of default, is extremely unlikely. Investors are experienced in managing regulatory uncertainty in their normal course of lending to the regulated sector and we would expect them to manage this situation as well. However, I know how strongly BAA feels about the issue and I will be meeting with it shortly.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, raised issues about staff in the event of the transfer of security functions from the Department for Transport to the CAA. It is important to ensure that the CAA has the skills and resources to undertake its new security functions. The Government are working to a plan that would aim for the CAA to take on the aviation security regulation function from the spring of 2014. The Government hope that existing staff will want to continue working in the security environment, but if any of them decide to move elsewhere, there will be enough time to manage this.

The noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, raised the issue of aviation safety standards. The UK is a signatory to the Chicago convention and is required by the ICAO to have in place a state safety programme to achieve an acceptable level of safety in civil aviation. The Civil Aviation Bill currently before Parliament does not deal with safety issues as there is already sufficient European and international legislation in place which addresses them.

The noble Countess, Lady Mar, raised the issue of organophosphates. This is a separate matter and one of research rather than legislation. I am pleased to be able to tell the House that the last piece of research that your Lordships asked the Department for Transport to commission, under successive Governments, into allegations regarding airplane cabin air quality, has now been completed and published. All the published research studies have now been formally referred to the Committee on Toxicity, the independent adviser to the Government on matters concerning the toxicity of chemicals, for it to consider.

[The Countess of Mar]

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for his comments. Does he agree that there is a serious problem in that the Civil Aviation Authority is responsible for people in an aeroplane both when it is on the ground and when it is in flight, but it does not impose health and safety regulations, as would be the case with the Health and Safety Executive? It looks after people on an airport site who are not in aeroplanes, but does not consider the COSHH regulations. Numerous Questions for Written Answer have been tabled on this issue, but no one takes responsibility for the passengers, pilots or aircrew.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Countess will recognise that these are complex matters. I will write to her on all the points she raised.

The noble Lord, Lord Soley, asked if the Bill will cover military airports and whether they could be exempted under Clause 77. In certain circumstances, military airports can be exempted from economic regulation under Chapter 1 and Clause 77.

My noble friend Lord Bradshaw was concerned about the market power test set out in Clause 6. His specific concern was that unless an airport operator has market power, it should not be regulated. I would like to reassure my noble friend that, under the Bill, where an airport does not and is unlikely to acquire substantial market power, it will not be made subject to economic regulation. It is a specific requirement of the market power test in Clause 6.

The noble Lord, Lord Rogan, talked about the aviation needs of Northern Ireland. The Government and the Civil Aviation Authority have no role in the slot allocation process. EC regulations established a mechanism for the allocation of slots at congested airports. This has been transposed into UK law under the Airports Slot Allocation Regulations 2006, which came into effect on 1 January 2007. Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Manchester and London City airports are all designated by the Secretary of State for Transport as co-ordinated airports with their slot allocations managed by Airport Coordination Limited, an independent company which has powers under the UK regulations to monitor the conformity of air carriers’ operations with the slots allocated to them, and to take enforcement action against those airlines that do not operate according to the regulations, in particular by introducing sanctions for slot misuse. The ring-fencing of slots at Heathrow to protect regional services, other than where a public service obligation has been implemented, would be incompatible with EU law. The UK has highlighted the issue of regional connectivity with the European Commission in the context of the current reform of the EU slot regulations and is exploring the scope for including measures to help secure the ongoing provision of air services between UK regions and congested London airports. Beginning this summer, Commission working groups will examine the slot proposals, and I commend the work of the noble Lord, Lord Empey, who has been extremely active and effective in Brussels.

The noble Lords, Lord Davies of Oldham and Lord Davies of Stamford, commented on the UK Border Force. It is not covered by the Civil Aviation Bill and is accountable to Ministers and Parliament as a Home Office agency. Queues at airports are caused by many factors, including the border force receiving incorrect flight manifests and early or late airplane arrivals, resulting in bunching. The Minister for Immigration and Citizenship is reviewing what additional data may be published by the Home Office and shared with port operators. Meanwhile, the UK Border Force has responded to recent problems with queues in a number of ways. It is tackling short-term peaks with a pool of trained staff, and working with airports and airlines to ensure that they provide more accurate passenger manifests and flight schedules so that the force can flexibly deploy staff at the right times and in the right places. It is creating a new central control room for the UK Border Force at Heathrow that will use mobile teams for rapid deployment, and it will implement new rostering and shift patterns. It is also working with Gatwick and Heathrow airports to improve passenger flows using more specific measures such as e-gates and other biometric checks.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies, asked why there is no obligation on the CAA to require airports to develop passenger welfare plans. The indicative licence prepared by the CAA included, at the request of the Department for Transport, an example condition that would strengthen an airport’s resilience where appropriate. The proposals contained in Condition 7 require the licence holder to operate the airport efficiently and to use its “best endeavours” to minimise any detriment to passengers arising from disruption. It would also require the airport to draw up, consult on and gain the CAA’s approval for an annual resilience plan setting out how it will secure compliance with its obligations under the condition. The licence holder would be obliged to comply with the commitments it has made in its resilience plan.

The noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Chesterton, mentioned the issue of the difference in the quality of the air between first and economy class. The air is the same throughout an aircraft. First class seats and economy class seats are usually separated by a curtain, which is not an airtight medium.

[Lord Hunt of Chesterton]

I was talking about the volume of air. We know that there is air, but the question is how much of it is circulating. That is a very clear distinction.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, if I have anything further to add, I will write to the noble Lord.

My noble friend Lord Jenkin of Roding raised the issue of consolidation. We should strive to produce legislation that is comprehensible to those who have to operate it and to those who are affected by it, and the consolidation of statute law can make a valuable contribution to this. Consolidation can take different forms. On the one hand, there can be what we call “formal consolidation”, which reproduces a law on a particular topic without any changes. On the other hand, a Bill may reproduce existing law with amendments. In recent years, fewer formal consolidation measures have been prepared than previously. One reason for this has been the change to the way that Parliament amends legislation. Amendments are now routinely made by textual amendment; that is, by inserting, removing or replacing text in the original statute. The need to consolidate simply to take account of textual changes has therefore largely disappeared. The approach taken in the Civil Aviation Bill is sometimes to make brand new provisions, as in Part 1, and sometimes to textually amend existing legislation, as in Part 2. When drafting the Bill, the changes being made did not appear to call for the rewriting of the law relating to civil aviation or aviation security. The specific textual amendments to other Acts made by the Bill show more clearly the changes that are being made than would a provision which replaced the whole of the legislation being amended, with the changes buried somewhere in the middle.

I have endeavoured to respond to many of the valuable points made by noble Lords, but time does not allow me to respond to all the points that have been made, no matter how good they are. I will read Hansard carefully and write to those noble Lords who have asked me questions that I have not been able to answer. I will also be delighted to have meetings with noble Lords outside the Chamber to look at the detail of these matters. This is only the first opportunity to formally discuss the Civil Aviation Bill in your Lordships’ House, and I look forward to debating it with noble Lords in Committee.

Bill read a second time.

Airports: Heathrow

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Monday 28th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kramer]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of night flights at Heathrow.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the Government are aware that night noise continues to be a concern for residents around Heathrow. We have extended the current night-time flying regime at Heathrow for two years until October 2014 and will begin a review later this year on its replacement. In considering a new regime, it is important that we take care to strike a balance between noise disturbance and the economic benefits of night flights.

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, local residents are woken from 4 am onwards not because of capacity issues at Heathrow but because of limits on departure schedules at other airports. If the Government will not commit to eliminating night flights, will they at least undertake to negotiate with the relevant countries for a timetable that is gentler for residents under the flight path in this country? Will they also negotiate with the airlines to get them to commit to put the latest, quietest aircraft on these routes? I understand that none has yet committed to doing so for early landings.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a number of points. She referred to aircraft coming from distant countries. It is important to remember that if we insist on a later arrival time in the UK, a plane may have to leave the Far East later at night and that may cause a problem there. My noble friend talked about quieter and noisier aircraft. A quota system takes into account the noisiest aircraft, which cannot fly until later in the day.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester]

My Lords, can the Minister give an assurance that, when the Government conduct their assessment into whether to allow more night flights, they will take into account the economic disbenefits, as well as the effects of sleep deprivation and other social effects of night flights, set against the economic benefits that may come from having more planes arriving earlier?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we will do exactly that.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that more and more flights from Scotland are being cancelled by airlines so that they can free up slots for other destinations? Is it not about time that the Government stopped dithering and made a decision to go ahead with a new runway at Heathrow?

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord will know that the slot allocation at Heathrow Airport is not a matter for the Government.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, does the noble Earl agree that the noise problem is not confined to Heathrow Airport? There are considerable problems with noise over Stansted Airport, for example, and I declare an interest as a supporter of the Stop Stansted Expansion campaign. Can he say whether the Civil Aviation Bill, which is shortly to be introduced in this House, will take any account of this issue and whether it will contain any provisions for strengthening the regime that limits night flights?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, as currently drafted, the Bill does not say anything about night flights, although the noble Baroness might tempt me with an amendment. It is important to understand that the problem of Heathrow is much greater than that of the other two London airports. Some 228,000 people are affected at Heathrow, whereas at Gatwick and Stansted the figure is only between 1,000 and 2,000, so the problem at Heathrow is much more serious. However, all three London airports have noise controls imposed by central government.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, if there were a third runway at Heathrow, would that make any difference to the pressure for more night flights?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I doubt it. The issue about night flights is that flights coming in from the Far East make connections at Heathrow.

[Lord Bradshaw]

The work that I have done on the Civil Aviation Bill has shown me that there is a lot of spare capacity at Stansted, Luton, Gatwick and Birmingham, an airport which I am just about to visit. The release of that capacity is dependent on improved surface connections to all four airports. I urge the Minister to look into that before we try to put everything into Heathrow and so get some of the traffic spread out because it is not all hub traffic.

[Earl Attlee]

My noble friend makes valid points.

[Lord Davies of Coity]

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Foulkes described the circumstances arising out of his question, such as the slotting of aircraft. The Minister replied to the issue of the slots but he never replied to the point about the dithering over the decision, for which the Government are responsible, about the third runway at Heathrow.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we are not dithering about a third runway at Heathrow. Coalition policy is that there will not be a third runway at Heathrow.

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

My Lords, the Minister may or may not be dithering about Heathrow, but the Government have certainly dithered on the aviation Bill when environmental issues have cropped up in relation to airports. Will he take note of the fact that we will use the opportunities provided by the aviation Bill to examine thoroughly the Government’s position on these important environmental matters? I am very pleased today to see how many people, right across the House, are concerned.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I can assure the House that I shall listen very carefully to noble Lords’ input on the aviation Bill as it passes through the House.

[Lord Swinfen]

My Lords, what is being done to produce quieter aircraft?

[Earl Attlee]

Could my noble friend repeat the question?

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Swinfen]

Certainly. I asked my noble friend what is being done to produce quieter aircraft.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, there is a great incentive to produce quieter aircraft because of the quota system at Heathrow. I understand that the next generation of aircraft will be 50% quieter.

Aviation Policy

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Monday 14th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Spicer]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government when they expect to complete their consultation on aviation policy and to publish their conclusions.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the Government will publish a consultation on the draft aviation policy framework and a call for evidence on options for maintaining the UK’s hub connectivity later this summer. The Government aim to adopt the final aviation policy framework next spring.

[Lord Spicer]

My noble friend plays his usual straight bat in his usual charming way. Obviously, consultation is important, but surely the Government accept that Heathrow Airport is now full up and that there is therefore a desperate need for the construction as soon as possible of a third runway.

[Earl Attlee]

My noble friend is right: consultation is important, as is listening. I have listened to what noble Lords have said in the Chamber and outside, as have my right honourable friends in another place. Government policy is that there will be no third runway at Heathrow. The Government will of course follow the proper process in relation to the call for evidence on hub connectivity. However, it is unlikely that we will discover that we have not maxed out on what Heathrow’s affected population can tolerate.

[Lord Soley]

The Minister is very good at listening, but I point out that we would like some action. The Government keep saying that they want growth. Aviation expansion related to Europe and the global economy is vital. The third runway at Heathrow would cost nothing to the public and would add about £8 billion to the GDP of this country. Why on earth do they not just get on with it and create employment and growth at the same time?

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, because we have to get the policy right. Successive Governments have struggled to develop an enduring policy that will outlast changes of government. We have to get it right and we are going to do it properly, but we will announce our aviation policy framework next spring.

[Lord Bradshaw]

Does the Minister agree that there is a lot of spare capacity at Gatwick, Stansted and Birmingham, which is soon to have a runway extension, and that if these resources were used intelligently and properly, we would have sufficient airport capacity? We need to improve surface access to those airports.

[Earl Attlee]

My noble friend makes a very good point. That is exactly why we have called for evidence on hub connectivity.

[Lord Clinton-Davis]

Are not the Government suffering from infinite blindness? We have an effective airport at Heathrow, do we not? Subject to some improvement of access by road and rail, would that not be a far better option than anything else?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we have an effective airport at Heathrow. The difficulty, of course, is that it is running at 98% capacity, so we need to make it better but not bigger.

[Lord Tugendhat]

Does my noble friend not agree that Heathrow and Gatwick are two great national assets? The expansion of both airports would do wonders for the British economy. It would be very beneficial, in terms of both the work that would be done in the short term and the expansion of capacity. If the Government refuse to allow a third runway at Heathrow, they will be imposing a brake on the growth of the British economy.

[Earl Attlee]

I am sure that the Government will take my noble friend’s point into consideration.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, will the Minister agree, as he has generously in the past, that one of the most difficult things for communities that are likely to be affected by airport expansion is the length of time over which these discussions have gone on? Specifically, in Stansted—I declare an interest as a supporter of the “Stop Stansted Expansion” campaign—certain areas have started to regenerate since BAA started to release properties back on to the market. If there is another period of uncertainty because the Government are not necessarily going to stick to their intention not to build a second runway at Stansted, that regeneration will begin to decline again.

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Baroness makes good points. I would just reiterate that we will announce our conclusions to the aviation policy framework next year.

[Lord Broers]

My Lords, why is aviation policy being considered in isolation from other forms of transport? Why are the Government not working on an integrated transport policy?

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the Government have recently set up a Cabinet sub-committee to look at transport infrastructure.

[Lord Trefgarne]

My Lords, are the Government prepared to reconsider the possibility of a second runway at Gatwick?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, no.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

My Lords, can the noble Lord say how many international flights have migrated from the hub at Heathrow to Schiphol, Charles de Gaulle and Frankfurt since the coalition came to power?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, that is a rather detailed question and I do not know whether I will be able to get the answer even by writing, but I will try. I should emphasise that Heathrow is still well connected to the rest of the world, especially China, if you take into consideration direct flights to Hong Kong, which is connected to 45 other Chinese cities.

[Lord Teverson]

My Lords, will my noble friend the Minister reassure me that the British Government will resist efforts by China, the United States and other nations outside Europe to opt out of the EU emissions system, which is there to control carbon emissions for the whole aviation industry in a non-discriminatory manner?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, my noble friend asks a good question, although it is slightly wide of the Question on the Order Paper. We support the ETS scheme, but my noble friend will understand that there are difficulties with it as well.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

But, my Lords, on the question of an integrated transport policy and given that the Minister mentioned Birmingham Airport, does he not, like me, regret the absence of an HS2 Bill in the Queen’s Speech? Does that indicate that the Government are in fact having second thoughts on that?

[A noble Lord]

I hope so.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, my noble friend behind me said, “I hope so”. I thought, “I hope not”. My understanding is that we did not intend to publish a Bill at this point. There is still much work to be done on planning the route, because we need to say exactly what powers we need, so I thought that it was a bit premature in any case.

[Baroness Trumpington]

My Lords, why is Manston never considered instead of a third runway? You have a ready-made runway at Manston, which is easy to get to from Dover. It has a lot of advantages and I do not understand why it could not be used.

[Earl Attlee]

My noble friend makes a good point. Manston’s runway is very long indeed, but it is also a long way from London and does not meet many of the requirements for a hub airport.

Roads: Private Investment

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Wednesday 25th April 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what lessons learned from the privatisation of British Rail they will apply to any plans for increased private investment in the United Kingdom’s motorway and trunk road network.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we are considering a number of options for the future ownership and financing of the strategic road network, looking at a greater role for private funding to provide more investment. This feasibility study is considering a wide range of possibilities, and it will be taking account of the experiences of water, electricity, telecoms and gas as well as rail and other transport sectors.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

That is a rather disappointing response from the noble Earl. I was hoping for “We’ve looked at it, it’s a stupid idea, and we’re not going to do it”. What words of comfort does the noble Earl have for the motorist, the small business and the taxpayer that they are not going to have additional costs to bear if proposals to introduce further private capital to our road system come to fruition?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the first comfort that I will give is that the feasibility study will consider the role that tolling can play, but it will not consider tolling existing capacity or road pricing. The purpose of the feasibility study is to look at how we can better run the strategic road network into the future so that investors can make long-term decisions rather than the short cycles that we are experiencing at the moment.

[Lord Mawhinney]

My Lords, will my noble friend learn two lessons from the privately designed, built, financed and operated stretch of the A1 between Alconbury and Yaxley? The first is that without that privately funded scheme—which I declare to the House I authorised—motorists on the A1 would still be bogged down in horrendous traffic jams with very little likelihood that that road would have been financed directly from the public purse. The second lesson that I hope he will learn is that when cost negotiations are taking place with the private sector they should be done with maximum vigour on behalf of the taxpayer.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I regularly used to use the bit of road that my noble friend refers to. Particularly impressive was the rate at which the construction project went ahead. It had all the signs of an efficient process.

[Baroness Scott of Needham Market]

My Lords, given that the objective of government is to encourage the investment of private finance in the transport sector, do the alternatives include the slightly less risky idea of creating a fund into which private investors can put money to invest in a portfolio of transport projects both new and existing?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am not quite sure about the exact proposal that my noble friend puts forward, but we are looking at all options and I will be grateful for any input from noble Lords into possible models.

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

My Lords, it may well be the case that the noble Lord, Lord Mawhinney, authorised an effective improvement to the roads, but I am concerned that the Minister effectively told the House that pretty well everything could be covered by this initiative. For example, would it be possible that there would be designated lanes for those who paid a road toll, so that we had the equivalent of first-class passengers on rail operating on our roads? Or would it mean that a mere resurfacing of the road, or just the addition of a junction, would effectively mean that the road had been upgraded and therefore could be subject to one of these initiatives?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord has made just the same points as I made to my officials. The key question is: is it additional capacity or is it merely an enhancement? If it is additional capacity, we would consider tolling it, but if it was just an enhancement, perhaps that would not justify tolling. The noble Lord puts his finger on an extremely important point.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes]

Can the Minister tell me on this Anzac day whether he knows that Sydney Harbour Bridge is a toll road? It has paid for itself probably thousands of times over, but as far as I know there is still a small toll payable. Does he not think that it is a great advantage for people to have a road that otherwise they would not have, but that the cost should not be so high that it creates a major problem, particularly for local people in meeting the toll cost?

[Earl Attlee]

I am sure that my noble friend makes a very sensible point.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, the Sydney Harbour Bridge may well be a successful toll bridge. The Severn Bridge is a successful bridge but it is causing a major impediment to investment in Wales. Given the other problems we face, could that be looked at afresh?

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, as the Question is linked to railways, I can point out that we are electrifying to Wales.

Transport: Automatic Number Plate Recognition

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Tuesday 24th April 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they plan to use automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) systems to reduce the number of uninsured drivers and the use of unregistered vehicles.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the police use automatic number plate recognition to spot vehicles that are being used without insurance or with no registered keeper. Under the continuous insurance enforcement scheme, the DVLA has powers to issue fixed-penalty notices, clamp a vehicle or prosecute offenders who keep a vehicle with no insurance. Contractors for DVLA are able to wheel-clamp uninsured vehicles, and have access to ANPR. The DVLA also has its own ANPR equipment to detect unlicensed vehicles.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes]

Does the Minister agree that the estimated loss to ordinary insured drivers is £500 million a year in higher premiums? Has he seen the reports about forecourts saying that they will not let you buy petrol if you are unregistered? Has there been any increase in the effectiveness of enforcement where people are uninsured or unregistered?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the cost of uninsured drivers is considerable. Uninsured drivers are also vulnerable to legal difficulties. The situation is highly undesirable, which is why we are taking steps to reduce the level of uninsured driving. The idea of using ANPR on petrol forecourts is innovative and being considered, but further work is needed to establish how it will work in practice alongside existing enforcement measures.

[Lord Bradshaw]

Will my noble friend take this fact away? ANPR is cutting-edge technology. It is very capable and can detect uninsured or stolen vehicles, people who are wanted by the police, and myriad other things. However, the legal system, which is in the hands of the Home Office, is not keeping pace. I have been on ANPR checks that have had to be stood down after about an hour because all the available space in a police station to process the prisoners has been quite overwhelmed.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, my noble friend is right about the advantages of ANPR technology. It detects a considerable number of unlicensed vehicles. I was out with the police last week and we caught an uninsured driver. It is not the only technique available. Under continuous insurance enforcement, the DVLA is able to issue fixed-penalty notices to anyone who operates a vehicle that is not insured and not declared to be off the road. That will also be a very effective deterrent.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

My Lords, if we have so many facilities for tracking these people and bringing them to charge, why is the system not operating? What will the Government do to use the facilities properly? Will they not consider employing people who are unemployed to chase these people, which will make the system cost-effective at the same time?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I said that I was out with the police very recently using this technology and we detected an uninsured driver. However, we need to be careful that when we interfere with motorists, and possibly seize or clamp their vehicles, the people doing that work are properly trained and qualified to do so.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate]

Will the Minister comment on the number of occasions when ANPR has been used in the detection of serious terrorist offences and serious organised crime, where it is extremely valuable?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right about the use of ANPR. I cannot give examples because I am not briefed on them, but when I went out with the police, I was in an unmarked police car and the police were interested in all types of crime, not just vehicle crime.

[Lord Geddes]

My Lords, in my ignorance, and perhaps for the benefit of the House, will my noble friend explain whether ANPR is a mobile device or is fixed?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, ANPR technology can be fixed or mobile. Both technologies are used where appropriate. However, if you want to use ANPR technology for a prosecution, the equipment has to be Home Office approved, and there are some issues there.

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

We note that the Minister has been closely involved with the police and has been helping them with any inquiries which they make, and I am very glad to see him back in his place today. Will he address his mind to the fact that the cost of motor insurance, which, after all, encourages those of a less respectable bent to try to avoid it, went up by 14 per cent last year? For young people getting their first car, if it is of a fairly clapped-out variety, insurance could be twice the cost of their vehicle. What are the Government going to do about that?

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Lord is absolutely and precisely right, as usual. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State is shortly to chair a working group looking at the cost of motor insurance for young people.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan]

Will the noble Earl tell the House that in a case where death or injury is caused by an uninsured driver, the agreement made between the Ministry of Transport and the Motor Insurers’ Bureau in or about 1930 still remains valid and effective?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, unfortunately I am not aware of what the noble Lord is talking about, but I will be delighted to write to him.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan]

It was, in fact, an agreement—

Arrangement of Business

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Wednesday 28th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, it may be for the convenience of the House to know that the Report stage of the Scotland Bill will resume immediately after the conclusion of the two orders in the name of my noble friend Lord De Mauley.

Employment Tribunals Act 1996 (Tribunal Composition) Order 2012

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Wednesday 28th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Razzall]

My Lords, we have had an extremely interesting discussion, which was virtually a repetition of our debate in Grand Committee. I remain with the fear I expressed during that debate that this issue has become far too polarised. On the one hand, the proponents of the statutory instrument suggest that it will lead to a significant increase in employment, particularly in the SME sector. On the other hand, after listening to a lot of the remarks on the Labour side, one would think that one was returning to the days of the Tolpuddle martyrs. I worry about this polarisation because this is a relatively modest instrument.

As the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, indicated, I know that a lot of the evidence here is anecdotal. I now see that the noble Lord has extended his saloon-bar anecdotes beyond just Hertfordshire to the whole of the Home Counties. The evidence is not only anecdotal but based on the experience of many noble Lords who sit on boards of directors and are involved with SMEs. The evidence is therefore not entirely anecdotal, but I take the point.

This is a very modest alteration if you look at the number of people who, when the restriction was one year, actually made a claim for unfair dismissal when they were dismissed between year one and year two. There does not seem to be any significant indication that such people will lose their rights as a result of this legislation.

The point I really want to make, which I made in Grand Committee—and I am glad that one or two noble Lords on the Labour side have taken this up—is that we are in the middle of a significant internal argument around the suggestions in certain quarters that virtually all employment protection should be scrapped. This is a very serious matter. Conversely, a number of people, certainly on the coalition side, have been arguing that we need improvements in employment protection, particularly in what are described as family-friendly rights on maternity, paternity and other such issues. I hope that this will appeal to the Labour side of your Lordships’ House. If we are going to get the improvements we want in those family-friendly rights, and if we are to beat off the damaging proposals that seem to be coming from Mr Beecroft and ensure that they are not implemented, passing this modest instrument seems to be a small price to pay.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, this is not a time-limited debate, but I suggest that we hear from the noble Lord, Lord Lea of Crondall, and then the Minister.

[Lord Lea of Crondall]

My Lords, I have three points. First, perhaps I may pick up on the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, if I have his attention. He made what I would call a Sudetenland remark—the one made by Neville Chamberlain about “peace in our time”. If only that were so. Does he want a guarantee, a white piece of paper in his pocket that he can wave, promising that there will be no more legislation if this order is passed? Well, we shall see.

I also congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Jones of Birmingham. His joke about crèches is the worst joke I have heard in the House in the 12 years that I have been here.

My first substantive remark is about the evidence base. In Committee, I pointed out that the evidence paper presented to us as part of the background material did not give evidence as you would normally understand that term—that it was clear what would happen if you moved from one year to two years; instead, it was evidence about perception. It is probably worth repeating that the Minister said that perception is as powerful, if not more powerful, than evidence.

Today, having been given the challenge that if you have a problem of perception, your job should be to counter perception by evidence—to change the perception by talking to people—the noble Lord said, “Exactly. That is what we are trying to do”, which caused an intake of breath on these Benches. The Minister has reinforced that today by saying, “I want to meet the challenge that there is evidence of perception”. I am sure he has evidence of perception—that becomes a circular argument—but there is still no evidence.

My second remark is that noble Lords repeated three or four times the Americanism about how many people we should let go. I do not think I am alone in finding that American usage distasteful. I deplore the idea that these people want to be let go. Do they come up and say, “Please let me go”, to which the answer is, “All right, I will let you go”? They are being sacked, they are being dismissed, they are being thrown out, they are being put on the scrapheap. That is the language. I have never heard in a pub in Burton upon Trent anyone saying, “I think they’ll let me go”, when they mean that they are going to be dismissed. Does the Minister appreciate that that is not the industrial language in this country?

Finally, I echo the remarks of my noble friend Lord Whitty, supported and reinforced by my noble friend Lord Monks. If legislation through statutory instrument as deep-cutting as this goes on and on, one is cutting the legs off primary legislation. We have a growing problem in the role of the House of Lords—second only, perhaps, to the Money Bill question. We are seeing more and more statutory instruments which are not playing around with minor detail of the primary legislation but, bit by bit, salami-wise, cutting the legs off primary legislation. Does the Minister think that we can go on taking 3 million, another 3 million and another 3 million out of the scope of primary legislation without making nonsense of the conventions about the use of secondary legislation?

Olympic Games 2012: Disruption to Businesses

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Goschen]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they are taking to ensure that disruption to businesses in London caused by the 2012 Olympic Games is minimised.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, London will be open for business this summer. Everyone involved in planning for the Games is focused on delivering a great Games while keeping London and the UK moving. Since November 2010, Transport for London has been working with businesses of all sizes in the capital to help them plan ahead for the impact that the Games might have on their staff travel, their deliveries and other aspects of their operations.

[Viscount Goschen]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that helpful Answer. Given that businesses in central London—here I have an interest of sorts to declare—have been officially advised to plan for severe disruption to their operations because of traffic congestion as a result of the Olympic route network and the congested public transport system, can he assure the House that everything possible will be done to ensure that, while the Olympic Games are a great success, the normal commercial business of London is kept moving as far as possible?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we recognise the importance of this issue. We accept that there will be serious consequences if we get the planning wrong. There may be some severe disruption to a few businesses in certain locations, but the overall policy objective is business as usual. There will be impacts on businesses, most of which, overall, will be positive. However, there are potential adverse impacts. They can be mitigated by timely information and good planning. The website, Get Ahead of the Games, provides both the necessary information and the planning tools.

[Lord Addington]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that having the greatest sporting festival in the world on our doorstep is something for which we should be prepared to tolerate a little delay? Can he further give us assurances and guidance about where we have looked for examples of how best to deal with any confusion?

[Earl Attlee]

My noble friend makes an extremely important point. It is quite clear to me that those planning for the Olympics have carefully studied the experience of other nations when they have put their Games on, which is one reason why I think that we are on track to deliver an excellent set of Games.

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

My Lords, it is of course enormously important that transport in London is sustained sufficiently for normal businesses to be able to operate. However, the Minister will know of one form of business that will already be adversely affected—black cabs, which will not be able to go into these privileged lanes. So, that is one business that is facing a real challenge. Can the Minister assure us that government Ministers and others who have privileged transport will not trespass into these lanes, which we recognise are in response to the requirements of the Olympic authorities and already attract the unfortunate epithet of the Zil lanes, after the privileged form of transport in Moscow? I can think of nothing more offensive to the ordinary Londoner than to see that these lanes which are reserved for athletes to fulfil their Olympic obligations are being patronised by government Ministers.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, if I may say so, that was an ingenious question from the spokesman for the Opposition. However, noble Lords will recall that the bid plans were approved by the previous Administration. On a particular point about the Olympic route network and the Games lanes, the Games lanes will be put in place only where there are two lanes, and only for as long as necessary.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes]

My Lords, could the Minister tell me what thought has been given to the effect on retail business of the extended closure of pedestrian crossings? Certain major roads in the centre of London will have a barrier completely down the middle, and the number of pedestrian crossings will be reduced by half. Will that not affect people in retail terms since they will be able to buy only from whatever business happens to be on their side of the road?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, it is important to remember that there will be opportunities as well as disadvantages for retail businesses. I would urge retail businesses to visit the Get Ahead of the Games website, where, by using the tools available, they will easily be able to see what the impact of travel disruption will be.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan]

Perhaps the Minister could address the potential effects of a cyber surge in view of the huge interest there will be in the Olympic Games themselves, the potentially huge diversion of businesses and their employees to outside of London, based on the need to avoid any transport and other difficulties. There may well be a pretty large surge of demand for internet capabilities. Can the Minister tell us what provision or action the Government have made or taken to ensure continuity of service in the cyber and internet fields? It could cause huge disruption to business if that is not assured.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, in preparing for this Question I had not specifically looked at cyber issues. However, I know that my noble friend Lady Neville-Jones spends all her time working on cyber issues.

[Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville]

Does my noble friend regard it as a good or a bad omen that the first appearance of the phrase “the rush hour” in the English language appeared within two years of the first modern Olympic Games in 1896?

[Earl Attlee]

Yet another interesting question from my noble friend.

[Lord Berkeley]

My Lords, will the Minister expand a little on his response to my noble friend Lord Davies of Oldham? We read in the press of the arrival of hundreds if not thousands of members of the Olympic family—which I think probably means the International Olympic Committee and all the hangers-on. No doubt each participating member state will send a senior Minister and their entourage, and that is before we get to our own Ministers. Will all these people be able to use these special lanes in addition to the athletes—who are the ones we want to get there on time—or will they be confined just to the athletes? If the lanes are extended to all these other people who think that they have a role to play then, as my noble friend said, the public will get very angry indeed.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord will understand that the provision of the Olympic route network was a key component of our bid to host the Olympics. If we had simply said to the International Olympic Committee, “Oh yes, we will have a great transport system”, we simply would not have secured the bid. We had to tell the International Olympic Committee specifically how we would provide the transport, including the Olympic route network.

[Lord Elton]

My Lords, can my noble friend readdress the question asked by my noble friend Lady Gardner of Parkes? If 50 per cent of the crossing places in, for instance, Oxford Street are to be closed and barriers will make it impossible to cross the road other than in the remaining 50 per cent of places, many people who are not that fit will have to make very long journeys on foot to get across the road, even when it is not rush hour. That, together with fighting against the tide, will put some people out of the commercial race altogether.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I understand my noble friend’s point but, where restrictions are planned, they will be in place only for as long as necessary.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside]

My Lords, the Minister keeps repeating that this or that plan has been approved and that this or that has got us the Games. Will he please tell us who will be able to use the lanes? It is quite simple and straightforward.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the answer is athletes, technical officials, media covering the Games, the Olympic and Paralympic family, and Games partners, who provide £1 billion funding for the Games and contribute to the operational running of the Games.

[Lord Broers]

My Lords, can the Minister reassure us that there will be excellent communications between the various modes of transportation so that those involved in surface rail will talk to those who work on the Underground, and vice versa? Last week there was a massive delay at Waterloo, yet the Underground had no notice of this and went on piling people into Waterloo. I hope that the two will talk to each other during the Games.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I know that generally noble Lords have been disappointed with some of the information systems during transport disruptions. I recently visited the Transport for London surface operations control centre in London and was very impressed by it. In addition, for the Games a transport co-ordination centre will ensure co-ordination and communication between all transport operators, authorities and Games organisers. It will focus on transport operations that could affect delivery of the Games and it will be funded by the Olympic Delivery Authority.

[Lord Tomlinson]

Does the noble Earl accept that, although privileged access to Downing Street is worse than privileged access to the Games, nevertheless privileged access to the Games, as well as to Downing Street, will be found repugnant by many British people?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I hope the noble Lord understands that these plans were approved by the previous Administration. This Government were not in a position to alter the bid made by that Administration.

Airports (Amendment) Bill [HL]

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Friday 16th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, first, I offer my sincere congratulations to the noble Lord, Lord Empey, on securing a Second Reading for his Bill. We have had a fascinating and informative debate, and the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, is right to say that we should be discussing this matter today. I also commend the noble Lord, Lord Empey, for his detailed and thorough engagement with Members of the European Parliament and officials from the UK’s permanent representation in Brussels in pursuance of the Bill. He is a model of how to deal with problems of this nature.

The Bill’s aims are laudable in seeking to introduce powers that would allow the Secretary of State for Transport to ring-fence take-off and landing slots at congested London airports to ensure the future protection of regional air services, in particular to Northern Ireland and Scotland. The noble Lord, Lord Rogan, talked about the need for a level playing field between the centre and the periphery and the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham, made some valid points about the regions.

We recognise that regional airports, including Luton, make a vital contribution to local economies and that regional connectivity is very important. For some remoter areas of the UK, regional air services are not a luxury but a vital means of connectivity, as many noble Lords have observed. I acknowledge too the concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Empey, that the provision of commercial air services is subject to market forces. Ultimately, airlines operate in a competitive commercial environment and it is for them to determine the routes that they operate.

It is possible, therefore, to imagine that at some future point airlines currently operating services from Northern Ireland and Scotland to Heathrow could decide to reduce or withdraw them and use the relevant Heathrow slots for alternative services. It has been suggested that we cannot leave this issue to the commercial market. However, the picture is not necessarily as bleak as the noble Lord fears, as at present there are many flights from Northern Ireland and Scotland into Heathrow and it is likely that many deliver a commercially attractive return in comparison to other potential routes; for example, as feeder flights for long-haul services.

The noble Lord, Lord Maginnis, talked about the need to meet all demand for air passenger services. Currently, more than 18,000 flights per year operate between the two Belfast airports and the five main London airports, of which nearly 7,000 are between Belfast and Heathrow. These routes are well used, with more than 2 million passenger journeys in 2010 between Belfast and London, of which more than 750,000 were between Belfast and Heathrow. My noble friend Lord Caithness mentioned some of the difficulties with the Bill and described the current situation with services. Scotland is also well connected, with more than 60,000 flights per year between Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow and London airports, carrying 5.8 million passengers in 2010. Of these, more than 27,000 were between Scotland and Heathrow, carrying 2.9 million passengers in 2010.

As the noble Lord, Lord Empey, correctly states, world slot guidelines determined by the International Air Transport Association are reflected in the European Union regulations that govern the allocation, transfer and exchange of slots at Heathrow and other slot co-ordinated airports in the UK. I note the warning from my noble friend Lord Caithness about government interference in these arrangements.

EU law provides some scope to protect regional air services by allowing member states to impose public service obligations—PSOs—to protect air services to airports serving a peripheral or development region, or on thin routes considered vital for a region’s economic and social development. It would be open to devolved Administrations in Northern Ireland and Scotland to apply to the Secretary of State to impose a PSO on an air route, should they feel that a case can be made that satisfies the EU regulation. If approved, this would permit ring-fencing of slots at a relevant London airport.

An important principle of PSOs is that they can be imposed only when it is necessary to ensure adequate services between two cities or regions, rather than to link individual airports, which is precisely the problem that we are dealing with. Importantly, this means that when judging whether a region has adequate services to London, it is necessary to take into account the level and nature of services to all five main London airports. I have to tell the House that there is currently no other mechanism for the Government to intervene in the allocation of slots at Heathrow or other London airports.

Under European law, the potential for ring-fencing slots at Heathrow to protect regional services is to be dealt with by reference to the PSO rules alone. Therefore, to create a parallel more wide-ranging set of rules would be incompatible with EU law. The Bill is therefore contrary to EU regulations because it would, in effect, override the strict criteria and processes by which European Governments can intervene on route operations. However, as already indicated in the Explanatory Memorandum submitted to Parliament on the European Commission’s Better Airports package, the proposal to amend the slot regulations provides an opportunity for the UK to highlight this issue with the Commission and explore measures to help secure, if necessary ongoing, provision of air services between UK regions and congested London airports.

That said, the prospect of securing such amendments will be challenging, and chances of success may be limited, because introducing a mechanism to protect routes that are at present well served by economically viable air services would necessitate a fundamental change to the existing applicable EU law.

My noble friend Lord Caithness also warned us about the impact on competition if the Bill were to be passed. We are currently considering what options are available that would achieve the connectivity objectives within the Bill, without having a serious detrimental effect on competition in the wider aviation market, which could affect UK aviation interests.

I am conscious that the proposed sale of BMI to the parent company of British Airways, IAG, has focused particular attention on regional air connectivity, prompting concerns about reduced flight frequency on routes on which BA and BMI currently compete, leaving BA as the sole operator on some routes from Heathrow—for example, to Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Manchester—with too much market dominance that could impact on air fares.

Any competition issues arising from the proposed sale are subject to investigation by the European Commission competition authority, which holds jurisdiction to consider whether airline acquisitions and mergers may lead to a substantial impediment to effective competition in a substantial part of the EU. IAG’s proposed acquisition of BMI was formally notified to the competition authority on 10 February. The Commission’s published provisional deadline for reaching a decision on its phase 1 investigation is Friday 30 March. The UK Office of Fair Trading is in contact with the Commission competition authority in relation to the proposed sale. Noble Lords will appreciate that the sale of BMI is a commercial matter for the companies involved. As the proposed sale is subject to competition inquiries, it would not be appropriate for me to comment further at this stage.

More generally, I assure noble Lords that a key part of the Government's approach to aviation is to seek to create the right conditions for regional airports, including those in Scotland and Northern Ireland, to flourish. We have committed to producing a sustainable framework for UK aviation which supports economic growth and addresses aviation’s environmental impacts. We intend to consult shortly on a new aviation policy framework, which will set out our overall aviation strategy. Alongside this, we plan to issue a call for evidence on maintaining the UK’s international connectivity.

The noble Lord, Lord Soley, in his interesting speech, suggested that our forthcoming aviation policy framework paper may leave a big hole in the middle of it. In the extremely unlikely case that that is proved to be correct, I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Davies, will drop me in it at least once if not several times.

The noble Lord, Lord Laird, talked about tourism from the United States. He will be aware that there is a direct air service between Belfast International and Newark, New York with United Continental airlines. The noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, touched on the Civil Aviation Bill. As drafted, it does not cover the third runway of Heathrow or slot allocation. The noble Lord made important observations about the technical improvement of aircraft, particularly in respect of noise. He also touched on the Thames estuary airport. As the Chancellor said in his Autumn Statement, the Government are committed to maintaining the UK’s hub aviation status. As part of that commitment, we will commission a call for evidence on the options for ensuring that the UK maintains its international air connectivity. We intend to publish a call for evidence alongside our consultation on the new aviation policy framework shortly.

The noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, talked about the attractions of Luton Airport. I have already visited Gatwick and Heathrow and am due to visit Manchester shortly. I visited Luton some time ago, but I will try to do so again.

My noble friend Lord Spicer asked me about the letter from 70 businessmen. I fear that he will have to wait for the consultation paper.

The noble Lord, Lord Rogan, talked about the lack of business connectivity through Heathrow. It is open to passengers using regional airports to utilise other hub airports to access worldwide airlines.

In conclusion, on the basis that the Bill would be incompatible with EU law, the Government will not be able to support the Bill’s passage into legislation, nor could we entertain a corresponding amendment to the Civil Aviation Bill. I am grateful for the very sensible position of the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham, speaking from the opposition Front Bench, and his comments on the desirability of the Bill. However, as I have indicated, we are committed to highlighting the issue of regional connectivity in the context of the forthcoming reform of the EU slot regulations and intend to explore measures to help to secure the ongoing provision of air services between UK regions and congested London airports.

Railways: Level Crossings

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Thursday 15th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what support they are giving to Network Rail’s efforts to improve safety at railway level crossings.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, overall, level crossing safety performance is currently high and an industry safety framework exists to manage risks. The legal duties for safety at level crossings lie with Network Rail as the safety duty holder, while their monitoring and enforcement are the responsibility of the Office of Rail Regulation. We welcome Network Rail’s continuous efforts to reduce risks and improve level crossing safety.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester]

My Lords, I take it that the Minister accepts that rail travel is now safer than it has ever been, and that the greatest risk on the railway now comes from user-worked crossings and from motorists and other road users running red lights or weaving around barriers. British Transport Police advises us that last year there were 2,637 cases of people failing to obey traffic signals at level crossings. Can the Minister assure us that shortage of funds will not stop Network Rail installing the latest technology at the 600 riskiest user-worked crossings? Secondly, what are the Government doing to support the trialling and introduction of red light enforcement cameras? Is he aware that the Home Office is taking up to 24 months to test and approve a product for railway level crossings that is already in widespread use on A roads and motorways?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord has asked quite a few questions. User-worked crossings are indeed very hazardous. There are 2,500 of them and they are often used as farm crossings. He also asked about their financing. It can be very difficult to build a good business case because of the low risk of an accident occurring at each individual crossing. He also asked me about the trialling of cameras. I am aware of this problem. Similar problems arise in respect of roadside drug-testing equipment. It is important to recognise that approval of this equipment is an important component of our legal system. I understand that the British Transport Police has not yet submitted a formal application. For my sins I am the Home Office spokesman and I will draw this matter to the attention of my right honourable friend the Home Secretary.

[Lord Bradshaw]

I am sure my noble friend will agree that level crossings represent the largest risk of a serious rail accident occurring. Will he please give the House an assurance that the Government will look at the procedures for closing level crossings? Such closures are usually opposed by highway authorities down to the Ramblers’ Association and with 100 organisations in between, and yet many could be closed without serious detriment to public convenience. If he would do that I would be very much obliged.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, my noble friend is right to draw attention to this serious risk, which is why Network Rail pays so much attention to it. It is important to understand that we have far and away the best record on this matter in Europe, with the exception of Ireland, which is only slightly better. In this control period Network Rail will close around 556 crossings. I imagine that many of these are footpath or farm crossings. However, providing just a footbridge costs £750,000. It is very hard to construct a robust business case given the very low chance of an accident occurring at any particular crossing. Network Rail is trying to reduce the cost of these bridges. It is important to understand that where the risk is known to be higher, a crossing system with increased protection will already have been installed.

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

My Lords, after the court judgment against Network Rail in February over deaths that occurred on a level crossing, the executives donated their bonuses to a charity to promote level crossing safety. Is the safety of our railways to be dependent on such quixotic gestures, or should the people responsible for the safety of the railways make sure they do a proper job?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the biggest problem with level crossing safety is the behaviour of pedestrians, particularly when they get distracted. All four fatalities that occurred last year were behaviour-related and almost exclusively involved a distraction problem. The best thing that Network Rail can do is to educate people, so that sounds like rather a good strategy on its part.

[Viscount Tenby]

My Lords, is the Minister satisfied that the legislation regarding people who deliberately flout the regulations on level crossings is sufficiently draconian?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Viscount’s question links in very well with that of the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner. It is of course a very serious motoring offence to zigzag around the barriers, but you need to have the evidence to prosecute. The noble Viscount makes a good point, and that is what we are working on.