Immigration: Asylum Seekers
Earl Attlee Excerpts(14 years, 11 months ago)
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Lord Avebury
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will exercise the power in Section 94(5) of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 so as to restore the right of appeal against refusal of asylum to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transsexual people from Jamaica, Nigeria and Ghana.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, unsuccessful asylum claimants have a right of appeal to the UK courts. Designation under Section 94(5) does not deny a right of appeal to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transsexual applicants from designated countries including Jamaica, Nigeria and Ghana. However, claims from nationals of non-suspensive appeal designated countries that are clearly unfounded must be certified as such and can be appealed only from outside the UK. There are no plans to change this.
Lord Avebury
My Lords, the UKBA has collected figures on LGBT asylum seekers since last July, immediately after the Supreme Court ruling that the wrong test was being applied to them. How many cases have been recorded for each of these countries since then? If the overwhelming majority of them were either granted asylum on their application or allowed an appeal notwithstanding the provisions of the Act, does my noble friend agree that the law should correspond with the practice, as it already does for women?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord suggested that the wrong test was being applied previously. We are happy with the new test in HJ and HT. He asked me to cite some statistics and I will write to him, but a clearly unfounded claim is one that is so clearly without substance that it is bound to fail even were all other aspects of the applicant’s claim accepted. Certification is subject to judicial review.
Lord Rosser
My Lords, if it is the Government’s view that the right of appeal already exists, as I understand the Minister to have said, in the light of the recent Supreme Court ruling that application for asylum should be accepted if it is satisfied that a gay person who lived openly would be liable to persecution in the country of origin, would it not be appropriate to amend Section 94(5) of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act to add sexual orientation to the list of specific descriptions of named categories of people who have the right of appeal?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, no, because all cases are considered on their merits. If there is no reason to suspect that an applicant is not gay and he comes from a homophobic state, he will have a good claim for asylum.
Baroness Hamwee
My Lords, the Minister will understand the comments made by those who have been subject to these procedures—that, for instance:
“If you do not fit”,
the border agency’s,
“view of a stereotypical gay person then they don’t get it—how do I prove I’m a lesbian?”.
I am not asking the Minister to give a direct answer now but perhaps to take my question back to consider it, because I have not given him warning of it. In Section 94, there is the opportunity for the Secretary of State, when he thinks that it is appropriate, to add other attributes. Is the word “reasonably” implied when the Secretary of State has to consider those other attributes?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Baroness is right on her first point on the difficulty of reliably determining whether someone is gay or not. I accept that point. But if the claim is not clearly unfounded, the applicant will be able to put that to officials and, if necessary, to an appeal court.
The noble Baroness talked about Section 94. We do not think that it is necessary to make a further designation under Section 94 as she suggests.
People Trafficking
Earl Attlee Excerpts(14 years, 11 months ago)
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Earl Attlee
My Lords, all passengers arriving at King’s Cross St Pancras have been cleared for immigration purposes at juxtaposed controls in France and Belgium. The primary function of officers at St Pancras is to undertake checks for prohibited goods and restricted items. If there was any suspicion that a child arriving at St Pancras was at risk, the UKBA would refer to the appropriate authorities.
Baroness Doocey
My Lords, does the Minister accept that that means that a 12 year-old child can travel from Europe to St Pancras without any checks at all on their safety when they get here? Would he not agree that there ought to be a specialist child protection team at St Pancras to ensure that children trafficked into the UK are not being brought in and then used for sexual exploitation and benefit fraud?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, there is no need for a specific team at St Pancras as the noble Baroness suggests, because the necessary checks are carried out in France and Belgium by specially trained UKBA officials. Obviously, a child travelling on their own would arouse some suspicion and attention from officials, who are very likely to intercept them and satisfy themselves that everything is in order.
Baroness Butler-Sloss
My Lords, I think that the Minister is unduly optimistic about the way in which children come into this country. I declare an interest as the co-chairman of the All-Party Group on Human Trafficking. Is he aware that the majority of children trafficked into this country are never actually identified at all? Some are identified and go into local authority care, but very large numbers of missing children are not identified by local authorities as trafficked.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am certainly not unduly optimistic, and I was far more apprehensive about taking this Question than the previous Question. Trafficking is a hidden crime and, for that reason, is difficult to measure and detect. It is usually for sexual exploitation, labour exploitation or domestic servitude. Some 1,048 individuals were referred to the UK’s human trafficking victim identification and support framework, the national referral mechanism, from 1 April 2009 to 30 September 2010. Those are the ones whom we know about because they have been referred, so to an extent the noble and learned Baroness is quite right—this is a serious problem.
Baroness Goudie
My Lords, is it not correct that the European convention on human trafficking was amended at the end of last year and that the United Kingdom has decided not to sign up to that amendment? Would it not be right now, after what the Minister has said further to what we know about human trafficking, for the Government to sign up to that? The amendment would ensure tougher border controls, tougher recovery of money across borders and a longer time for victims to be taken care of. Will the Minister please take this back since the UK is, through its Government, one of the two countries that has not signed up?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Baroness is experiencing exactly the same difficulties as I did when researching this. There is the convention and there is the directive. We are confident that the UK is compliant with the Council of Europe trafficking convention, an issue that is already in place. The noble Baroness is referring to the EU trafficking directive. We are looking closely at that directive’s text and considering its merits. If we conclude that opting in to the directive would benefit the UK, we can apply to do so. The UK has a strong record in the fight against trafficking and already complies in both legislation and practice with most of what the draft directive requires.
Lord Laming
My Lords, the Government have been looking at that directive for some considerable time. Can the noble Earl assure the House that a decision will be made shortly, rather than allowing this situation to drift on indefinitely?
Earl Attlee
The noble Lord makes an important point. The issue is coming to fruition and when we see the final text we will determine whether we will opt in.
Baroness Scott of Needham Market
Is the noble Earl aware that when a specialist unit was set up at Heathrow it found that, of 1,800 unaccompanied children, half were under 11 and one-third were deemed to be at risk in some way? Have the Government given any consideration of whether the age at which children can travel unaccompanied is appropriately set?
Earl Attlee
The noble Baroness makes an important point. I am quite confident that we have considered carefully the matter of the age of the child. However, where the child is obviously younger or more vulnerable more attention will be paid by the UKBA officials.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, can the Minister tell me what role the British Transport Police has to play, particularly in relation to those two passenger stations? Also, in view of the Government’s dangerous proposals to politicise our police forces through elected police commissioners, what changes are envisaged for the British Transport Police?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, this issue is primarily a responsibility of the UKBA, not the British Transport Police. However, if those police saw a child at St Pancras or at any other station who appeared to be vulnerable in any way, but particularly to trafficking, it would obviously be their duty to do something about it and to refer the child to the local authorities.
Lord Elystan-Morgan
Can the noble Earl tell the House how many prosecutions there have been in the past 18 months in respect of this serious criminal enterprise, and how many of those have been successful? Should not those agencies responsible for gathering evidence be greatly strengthened so that credible cases can be brought before the courts?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, some of these cases are extremely difficult to prosecute. What distressed me a lot was that there were very few prosecutions for sexual exploitation. However, the police and the CPS use every legitimate means at their disposal to disrupt this trade and make it difficult and unprofitable for the perpetrators. This approach has led to convictions for a range of serious charges including rape, brothel management and money-laundering. It is also important to note that where charges are brought against suspected traffickers they may not be charged with specific offences of trafficking, depending on the facts of the case.
Lord Clarke of Hampstead
My Lords, I suggest to the Minister that this is not a new concern. Forty years ago on Camden Council we were worried about vulnerable people turning up at Kings Cross, Euston and St Pancras and being at the mercy of evil people. In the Minister’s earlier Answer he said that, once located, vulnerable people would be passed over to the statutory authorities. Is he convinced that the local authorities—in this case, probably Islington and Camden—have sufficient resources and the proper trained personnel to deal with these people, who are in a terrible state when they have escaped the clutches of the people who bring them in?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord raises an important point, but very few trafficked children appear at St Pancras for the reasons that I have described. However, considerable numbers turn up at Stansted and Heathrow, and both Hillingdon Council and Essex Council have made progress on improving some of their statistics, which in the past were not very good at all.
Lord Roberts of Llandudno
My Lords, what co-operation is there between us and other member countries of the European Union that are also on the line that leads to St Pancras?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, when UKBA officials intercept a child being trafficked in France or Belgium, that child is quite properly handed over to the French or Belgian authorities. We are confident that they have the necessary procedures and facilities in place because they are signed up to the same conventions as we are.
The Earl of Listowel
My Lords, will the Minister assure the House that the UKBA officials in the juxtaposed zones in Belgium and France have the right capacity to identify people perpetrating this, given the difficulty that he has highlighted in doing so? Is there social work input into what they do? Perhaps he might write to me with the details of their training.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am convinced that UKBA officials are specially trained to be able to detect children being trafficked. There are tell-tale signs when something is wrong, and I am confident that they are properly trained in that respect.
Building Regulations (Review) Bill [HL]
Earl Attlee Excerpts(15 years ago)
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Earl Attlee
My Lords, the Government recognise that the noble Lord, Lord Harrison, has in his amendment extended the period for commencement of a review, as prescribed in his Bill, from 12 to 30 months. However, our reservations remain the same as those I set out at Second Reading. We must focus on the priorities at hand, and it would be difficult to find any Government who would be willing to support a statutory commitment of their resources in the way that the Bill proposes. I must gently remind the Committee that the question it must consider is: for how long do the Government need to consider this review?
Therefore, I will not be drawn into some of the technical issues that I have recently studied. The noble Lord, Lord Knight of Weymouth, raised some of the plumbing issues, which I have discussed with the House Builders Federation. I did sanity-check some of the advice that I received. I asked, “Can you plumb sprinklers into the central heating system?”. I was advised that it was much more complicated than that. If you want a sprinkler system, you need a separate pressure supply that bypasses the house’s water meter. I also challenged why it costs £3,000 to £5,000 to install a sprinkler system.
We recognise that work is in hand, sponsored by industry, to refine and update the available evidence base that exists on the costs and benefits of sprinkler protection in residential premises. Clearly, we would need to consider any new information as and when it becomes available. Indeed, I have personally undertaken to read and understand the report currently being prepared by the Building Research Establishment for the Chief Fire Officers Association. I do not know how big that report will be.
I am grateful for the comments of many noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Palmer of Childs Hill, who made a very useful contribution, and those of the noble Lords, Lord Hunt and Lord Best. The noble Lord, Lord Best, talked about design problems and design flexibility. The building regulations already include the facility to vary the design of buildings where sprinklers are provided.
The noble Lord, Lord Harrison, asked me what I was worried about with regard to extending sprinklers to all houses. We are not aware of any problems with this provision, and the recent review of building regulations concluded that the excellent provisions for fire safety did not need to be changed. I am advised that the cost of carrying out a detailed review, as set out in the Bill, would be in the order of £250,000 and that it would divert departmental resources away from other government priorities. If you keep spending £100,000 here and £100,000 there on every single problem, eventually you run out of money, and that is more or less what has happened.
The noble Lord asked me what items under paragraphs (a) to (i) of Clause 1(1) caused me anxiety. I cite as an example paragraph (f), which refers to,
“the evidence for and experience of automatic fire suppression systems already available both in the UK and internationally”.
I am sure that my officials would enjoy going round the world looking at the international experience of fire suppression sprinkler systems, because that is what they would have to do.
Just before Christmas, my honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State at the department, Andrew Stunell, published his plans for taking forward the outcome of a recent review of building regulations. The review included looking at any changes that might be necessary to ensure that the regulations continued to operate effectively in the future. During the review, a number of respondents called for the introduction of regulation to increase the provision of sprinklers in buildings. However, the review did not produce any significant new evidence of the benefits of greater sprinkler provision.
Sprinkler protection is recognised as a highly effective measure, and provisions for its use have been in place in building regulations for many years for buildings where the fire risk is high. However, when you consider that all new homes are already provided with hard-wired smoke alarms, it is difficult to justify further increasing the regulatory burden with a measure that will impact only on new buildings.
The noble Lord, Lord Harrison, and perhaps others asked about the recent vote in the Welsh Assembly. Parliament has given the Welsh Assembly the power to adopt such a measure if it chooses to do so. By the end of the year, it will also have the necessary powers to set its own building regulations. However, this debate is about England, and what the Welsh Assembly does is a matter for the Assembly.
The noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, asked about the review of Part B, relating to the fire safety building regulations. We have made no plans to review the fire safety aspects of building regulations. No doubt they will be reviewed at some point when it is considered to be necessary.
The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, mentioned reducing spending on the fire service, suggesting that sprinklers could help. However, if building regulations changed tomorrow, only homes built after that point would be affected, and it would take decades for this to have a meaningful effect on the building stock. If there was a real concern that the service was under-resourced, I think that a more rapid solution would need to be found.
The noble Lord, Lord Knight, made several interesting comments, some of them relating to technical matters. I should have liked to engage on them if I had known that he was going to ask those questions. He suggested that Ministers and policy are controlled by officials, but I assure the noble Lord that Ministers determine the policy with advice from officials, not the other way round.
Prevention is much better than cure and an example of a more effective and innovative approach is the introduction of fire-safer cigarettes, a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Best. We have actively supported the European Commission’s efforts in developing a safety standard for reduced-ignition cigarettes. We estimate that this standard, once introduced, will save with almost immediate effect between 25 and 64 lives per year in England alone, not just in new buildings but across the board.
The noble Lord, Lord Harrison, asked why the Conservative Party has changed its policy now that it is in government. I gently remind the Committee that I answer for Her Majesty’s Government, not for the previous Opposition. Where noble Lords have raised wider issues, I will write if I have something valuable to add to my comments.
In summary, while we agree with the desire to answer the questions set out in the Bill, we must express strong reservations about the provisions in it for a statutory commitment for the Government.
Lord Harrison
My Lords, that was a lame reply to all the contributions that have been made to the debate this afternoon. I know that colleagues who have been here today to support the Bill have other urgent things to do so, in thanking them, I take the opportunity to say to the Minister that we will return to this issue; we will write to him and point out where we believe the deficiencies are in his reply. I still hope that we can make some changes but, in the interim, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Railways: Light Rail Vehicles
Earl Attlee Excerpts(15 years ago)
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Lord Berkeley
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the Rail Value for Money Study by Sir Roy McNulty is considering the use of light rail vehicles to provide low-cost passenger train operations on lower-traffic routes.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the Rail Value for Money Study is considering a range of options, a number of which might encourage more use of light rail vehicles.
Lord Berkeley
I am grateful to the noble Earl for that fairly short Answer. I am sure he will be aware that a light rail vehicle called the Parry People Mover has been operating in Stourbridge at probably 99 per cent reliability all the way through the winter, which is much better than most other trains. Will he encourage this company and others to continue to develop these light railways, which use low-weight, low-emission vehicles that are much more reliable? They can be used on many branch lines and other places, and costs could be reduced. They are an alternative to the welcome announcement made two days ago about the intercity express programme, where I understand that the procurement costs for that particular train were £30 million for the department.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord mentioned the Parry People Mover vehicle. We will encourage such developments. My officials in the department work closely with Mr Parry and they are working hard to resolve some of the technical difficulties.
Lord Bradshaw
My Lords, it took two to three years for the department to approve one vehicle which, as the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, said, has proved very satisfactory in service. Will the noble Earl ensure that, in the future, his department and the safety authorities get a move on and get something done?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, my noble friend has rightly raised an issue about the time taken for approval. However, I have to say that Mr Parry is a bit of a pioneer. The vehicle comprises some very new and pioneering technology so there are a lot of issues to be resolved.
Lord Kinnock
May I remind the Minister that Mr Parry has been pioneering this technology for at least 30 years? Many congratulations are owed to him on his persistence as well as his genius. Could I add to the various qualities of the Parry People Mover which have been listed by other noble Lords the fact that it is entirely made in Britain? That distinguishes it from many other forms of transport.
Earl Attlee
The noble Lord is quite right, but I have to say that the Parry People Mover is not a perfect vehicle. It has some technical issues, particularly with ride quality. However, I know that Mr Parry is working on those issues.
Lord Roberts of Llandudno
Will the Minister give us an assurance that, in considering passenger travel, the strength of the rails will not be reduced so that they cannot take freight as well? We are trying to remove as much freight as possible from the roads on to rail. I am thinking especially of routes such as the Conwy Valley line where it is essential that the rail link is sufficiently strong to carry freight.
Earl Attlee
My noble friend has made an important and interesting point. However, one of the advantages of a light rail scheme is that the maintenance load on the track is considerably reduced because of the lower axle loads of the light rail vehicles.
Lord Davies of Oldham
My Lords, given the number of places in the country where a light rail solution to transport needs would be most welcome, does the noble Earl accept that the issue of ride quality is fairly marginal, given that we are talking about the short distances to be covered? I hope that he will show some enthusiasm for making progress in this respect and not wait on the report of the McNulty study.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I should like to make it quite clear that, personally, I am very enthusiastic about light rail vehicles. One of the advantages of the Parry People Mover is that it is extremely energy-efficient. But I also have to point out that Network Rail had to undertake improvements to the line to achieve an acceptable ride quality for passengers.
Lord Dubs
The Minister will be aware that a number of branch lines were closed many years ago under the Beeching programme and other stupid cuts. Does he think that the light rail vehicle might be a way of reopening such lines on an economic basis? I mention, for example, the line that runs from Penrith to Keswick in the Lake District.
Earl Attlee
I do not know about that particular line but the noble Lord makes the extremely good point that there will be opportunities to use light rail on old, disused lines.
Lord Greaves
My Lords, does the Minister recall that the last time the railways got enthusiastic about getting cheap and cheerful, lighter vehicles to try to reduce costs, we ended up with a generation of pacers about 30 years ago. Whatever happens with this project, the technology certainly has to be a great deal better than that.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am aware of the pacer vehicles and I agree with much of what my noble friend says.
Lord Campbell-Savours
My Lords, would Mr Parry not do well to reflect on what happened to the light rail plant in Workington, which was closed effectively in the 1980s due to reductions in public expenditure?
Visas
Earl Attlee Excerpts(15 years ago)
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Earl Attlee
My Lords, a consultation on the student immigration system closed on 31 January. The consultation sought the views of respondents concerning the future of the tier 1 post-study work route and the effect of the proposals. The outcome of the consultation will be announced shortly.
Lord Clement-Jones
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply and declare an interest as vice-chairman of the All-Party Group on China and chair of the council of the School of Pharmacy, University of London. Only yesterday, the Minister said that the Government were determined to protect overseas students, so why are business, universities, research charities and student bodies all lined up against the current government proposals drastically to reduce those tier 1 post-study work visas? Not only will we let down our current overseas students, we will reduce the attractiveness of Britain as a study destination. Is that any way to foster good links with important countries such as China and India?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord asked about the situation with academic institutions. The answer is that they are not yet convinced of our good intentions. The UK’s education system is world-renowned. We remain the second most popular destination of choice, second only to the United States; and we intend to maintain that position. Post-study work is an important component of that.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, the noble Earl says that universities are not yet convinced. Surely the reason is that universities have done the analysis and looked at the consultation, and it is abundantly clear to them that under the Government’s proposals, many of them will be severely harmed financially. Today, the noble Earl’s department announced a climbdown on the immigration cap. When can we look forward to a climbdown on the student immigration consultation?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, we will not climb down on our intention to avoid the abuse of the student route. We want to maintain the UK as a world-class academic destination, but we are not prepared to tolerate abuses of the system, which, as the noble Lord knows very well, take place.
Baroness Hamwee
Yesterday, in response to a Question on the student immigration system, the Minister used the term,
“the brightest and the best”—[Official Report, 15/2/11; col. 575.]
in relation to those we want to attract and it is a term used in the consultation paper. Does he agree that there is not a single spectrum capable of objective application and that people have different views of the attributes that make for the brightest and the best? Does he agree that the language as well as the concept is not uncontentious?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am sure the noble Baroness is right, but it is for the academic institutions to select their students.
Lord Soley
Does the Minister accept that, like him, we all want to maintain this country in second position, but that we will do so only if the policies are right? They are not right because they are not working for the universities, which are also suffering additional costs. We are well on course to reduce the impact of British universities around the world. We really need to rethink this policy.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am quite happy to take noble Lords’ concerns back to my honourable friend the Minister for Immigration, but noble Lords have not explained to me where the difficulties lie, and we have not announced the results of the consultation.
Lord West of Spithead
I declare an interest as yet another chancellor of a university. The Minister explained that the Government have very good intentions in this. It is quite clear from all those in universities to whom I have spoken, and from the concerns of those involved in universities, that they do not understand that from what they have seen of these proposals. I ask the Minister to get them together and explain these good intentions so that we can clarify whether they are or not. At the moment, those involved are not at all persuaded, and I find the proposals difficult to understand as well.
Earl Attlee
The noble Lord makes a useful point. We clearly need to do more work to explain the situation to the academic institutions.
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
I am yet another university chancellor declaring an interest. I am chancellor of the University of Essex which has more than 40 per cent of its students from abroad. Have the Government really taken sufficiently into account the special financial standing of overseas students who disproportionately contribute financially to the universities to which they come? Are we not scoring an own goal in constructing a new regime that will deter that benefit?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, if we deter foreign students from attending UK universities and bona fide courses, we will have failed. We are concerned about bogus courses—for instance, bookkeeping courses where overseas students are doing course after course when in reality they are just working in the UK.
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
Will the Minister pay special attention to the impact of these proposals on small specialist institutions? I am thinking particularly about music conservatoires where not only is this issue likely to cause difficulty for the reasons indicated by the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury, but because they are already facing particular problems in respect of tuition fees due to the uncertainty about specialist funding?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Baroness makes an interesting point, and I will ensure in discussions with the Immigration Minister that her points are taken into consideration.
Lord Patel
Does the Minister recognise that for some courses, such as pharmacology and medicine, post-study work visas for experience are absolutely necessary? Does he think that such courses require a special arrangement?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I fully accept that post-study work is essential to courses such as pharmacology. Actually, our proposals are more generous in that the post-study work has to be at graduate level, but does not need to be in the discipline read for the first degree.
Universities: Student Immigration System
Earl Attlee Excerpts(15 years ago)
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Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what will be the impact on universities of the proposed changes to the student immigration system.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, a consultation on the student immigration system closed on 31 January. It sought the views of all respondents on the effect of the proposals. The results of the consultation, and an impact assessment, will be published in due course.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl. Last week, the noble Lord, Lord Green, who is Trade Minister, spoke warmly of the role of British educational institutions as export earners. Why is the noble Earl's department undermining that by proposing to cut the number of international students coming to the United Kingdom? Does he understand that this will have a devastating impact on the finances of many of our universities and will do enormous damage to UK interests?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, we are clear that we are not targeting genuine students at universities. The measures that we propose will ensure that the system is more selective for the brightest and the best. We will protect the areas that pose the least risk, including the universities sector, target the areas where risk of abuse is highest and ensure that genuine students will still be able to study at our world-renowned universities. The noble Lord is quite right to raise the issue. International students are vital for our trade position and for our soft power position.
Baroness Butler-Sloss
My Lords, as chancellor of the University of the West of England, I am extremely concerned about the effect on Malaysian students who come to Bristol to do the bar vocational course or the solicitors course in order to go back and better run the rule of law in Malaysia, which is extremely important. When is the Minister likely to know the outcome of the consultation? I shall be in Malaysia next month and will be attacked because of the fear that people there will not be able to get their legal training here to improve the way that they operate the law in Malaysia.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I very much hope that Malaysian students will not be disadvantaged in the way that the noble and learned Baroness suggests. She can tell them that she will be able to attack me in the House if we get this wrong. We had 31,000 responses to the consultation, many of them online. Our first task is to analyse those responses. We are grateful for the responses from academia.
Baroness Gardner of Parkes
As the Minister will know, citizens of the original Commonwealth countries cannot come here on Commonwealth scholarships any more, because these are not awarded. However, reputable universities can still get visas without any trouble for students who are doing important courses; I think that the Malaysians would be in this category. Is this not aimed more at stopping pseudo-students who are not intending to come to study? In the past, many never even appeared at some of these so-called colleges.
Lord Morgan
My Lords, has not this been seen by Universities UK as a deeply harmful policy to our universities that threatens both their global reputation and perhaps £2 billion of their income? Is not the Government's policy founded on the fallacy that students are considered as migrants—in other words, as permanent rather than temporary residents of this country? Given the Government's policy on university fees, is this not a further serious blow to the well-being of one of the glories of our country?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I seem to be struggling to convince the House that we are determined to protect our overseas students, whom we value immensely.
Baroness Benjamin
My Lords, I declare an interest as chancellor of the University of Exeter. If international students who are already studying here wish to take a new course, will they be expected to go back home and apply from overseas? The timeframe between finishing, getting their results and enrolling is very short, which will mean that many students will go elsewhere to study and we will lose good will internationally.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Baroness makes an important point and it is something that we are considering carefully. However, the difficulty that we experience is that students go from low-level course to low-level course, along the lines set out by my noble friend Lady Gardner, without making any academic progression at all and while no doubt working in the UK. It is a difficult point that we shall consider very carefully.
Baroness Howells of St Davids
My Lords, as chancellor of the University of Bedfordshire, I should like to give some figures which I hope will help. International students contribute £75 million per year to the local economy—money which we all agree is needed in Luton. They contribute £5 billion to the UK economy, which in turn generates wealth and jobs, and is equivalent in income terms to that contributed by a major industrial sector. The presence of international students makes courses financially viable, which they would not be if only UK students were recruited. Are these draconian rules really going to affect people who come here without real study value? We will lose good students, who will go to Canada and elsewhere if they have to comply with these rules.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am not disputing the figures that the noble Baroness quotes. That is one reason why we welcome overseas students. It is important to remember that comparable states have similar rules. Sometimes our rules are tougher; sometimes theirs are. However, we pay attention to the rules that obtain in similar states.
Airports: Heathrow
Earl Attlee Excerpts(15 years ago)
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Lord Spicer
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they plan for London Heathrow Airport to continue to be the world’s busiest airport in respect of international passenger traffic.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, we are committed to producing a new policy framework for UK aviation that supports economic growth and protects Heathrow’s status as a global hub, as well as addressing aviation’s environmental impacts. We intend to issue a scoping document in March 2011 setting out the key strategic questions that we are seeking to answer, followed by publication of a draft policy framework for consultation by March 2012.
Lord Spicer
I thank my noble friend for that response, but does he accept that the growth of the British economy will be seriously affected if there is capacity constraint at Heathrow Airport?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, we have made it absolutely clear that we do not support the construction of additional runways at Heathrow, Gatwick or Stansted. We believe that such runways would cause an unacceptable level of environmental damage, undermining our efforts to combat climate change and significantly damaging the quality of life of local communities. Instead, we have established the South East Airports Taskforce with key players from across the industry to explore the scope for measures to make the most of the existing airport infrastructure and to improve conditions for users of Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted.
Lord Borrie
My Lords, does the noble Earl agree that one of the great difficulties that Heathrow Airport has in expanding and trying to keep at least level with our competitor airports on the continent of Europe is the higher air passenger duty that people have to pay when they leave Heathrow for destinations abroad?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, decisions on matters concerning taxation, including aviation, are for my right honourable friend the Chancellor. On 22 June 2010, the Chancellor announced that the Government would explore changes to the aviation tax system, including switching from a per-passenger to a per-plane duty and that they would consult on major changes. My right honourable friend will of course take into consideration all shades of opinion.
Viscount Montgomery of Alamein
If the Government wish the UK to have an international hub airport, as we do, why do we not build one in the Thames estuary, which would be a greenfield site, would produce a lot of employment and would have lines that go straight into the European network?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the department has no plans for a new airport in the Thames estuary or in any other part of Medway or Kent. We want to get the most out of existing airport infrastructure in the south-east, which is why we have established the South East Airports Taskforce.
Baroness Scott of Needham Market
Will consideration of more effective use of the airports include a look at the provision of take-off and landing slots, which currently owes a lot to history and very little to common economic imperatives?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, a future airspace strategy is being undertaken, which includes proposals to enable aircraft to fly in more environmentally efficient ways. For example, the introduction of new onboard and ground-based systems will allow pilots to fly more direct routes and therefore reduce fuel burn and enable aircraft to arrive punctually at the approach to Heathrow, which will provide controllers with much better opportunities to guide aircraft into Heathrow without first placing them in a stack.
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe
Is the noble Lord aware that the simple problem is that we do not have enough tarmac or concrete at either Gatwick or Heathrow to get more planes in and out? Therefore, we either expand facilities in terms of more tarmac and concrete or we accept that the answer to the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Spicer, is that, no, Heathrow will no longer be the busiest airport in the world.
Baroness O'Cathain
My Lords, what about the second runway at Gatwick? Surely that must be up for a rethink and consultation.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I made it clear in my initial responses that there would not be a second runway at Gatwick.
Lord Davies of Oldham
My Lords, the noble Lord knows, as do his colleagues, that Heathrow is operating at 97 per cent capacity. He also knows that, at the general election, his party was committed to blocking a third runway, which of course has effects on Heathrow’s future capacity. Today he has said that we have a South East Airports Taskforce. Is that the best response that the Government can make after years of policy formulation in this area?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I think that I have made our policy clear. We cannot carry on increasing the number of airport runways in London and the south-east without adverse environmental effects.
Baroness Kramer
My Lords, the Minister will be aware that the night-flight regime, which limits night flights at Heathrow, comes to an end in 2012. Given the appalling history of consultations at Heathrow—narrow, biased and incomprehensible—will he meet with MPs and local community groups, or will he ask the Secretary of State to do so, so that a consultation is properly formulated, properly specified and meets the needs and purpose?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am confident that my ministerial colleagues have meetings as appropriate. On 7 September, the Minister of State laid a Written Ministerial Statement before Parliament on Heathrow operating procedures. That Statement confirmed that the Government would not approve the introduction of mixed mode, disturb the current arrangements for early-morning runway alternation, westerly preference and night-time rotation of easterly and westerly preference, or reopen the previous Government’s decision to end the Cranford agreement.
Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, I declare my interest as president of BALPA. In view of the Minister’s woeful comments, does he agree that there is really no alternative to Heathrow? Uncertainty is inimical to British aviation, particularly as far as passenger transport is concerned. Would it not make more sense to ensure now that the present situation at Heathrow is not imperilled and that the airport is expanded? What viable alternative is there?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I have to say again that we believe that an additional runway would significantly damage the quality of local communities. It would also cause an unacceptable level of environmental damage, undermining our efforts to combat climate change.
Asylum Seekers: Medical Treatment
Earl Attlee Excerpts(15 years ago)
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Earl Attlee
My Lords, before removing failed asylum seekers, the UK Border Agency assesses whether their removal would be contrary to the UK’s obligations under Articles 3 and 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights. Such case-by-case consideration may include the medical treatment and other support available in the country of return. However, the Government would not normally expect to make arrangements for foreign nationals to access medical treatment in their own country.
Lord Roberts of Llandudno
I thank the Minister for that reply. Does he agree that someone who receives treatment here but is deported to a country where no such medication is available is going to a death sentence? Will the Minister not urgently consult, for example, the World Health Organisation and voluntary organisations to seek a way to ensure that no one, wherever they are—in the UK or elsewhere—is denied necessary basic medical attention?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I fully understand the point put so well by the noble Lord. However, the UK complies with all the requirements of the ECHR. Furthermore, DfID has an extensive health programme in developing countries. Health is the largest part of the basic services that are heavily prioritised by UK aid—the others being nutrition, education, water and sanitation. DfID’s priority areas for improving health outcomes in developing countries include malaria; reproductive, maternal and new-born health; child nutrition; and HIV/AIDS.
Lord Tomlinson
My Lords, given that the Minister has confirmed that we fully observe the requirements of the European Convention on Human Rights, can he also say whether that applies to judgments of the European Court of Human Rights?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I thought we would get a question like that. Two cases, D and N, are from the European Court of Human Rights; the case law is very clear and the UK adheres to it.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester
My Lords, can the Minister give the House any assurances about instructions given to agencies responsible for the removal of failed asylum seekers, whether by coercion or by forms of restraint? What are the Government’s policies on monitoring those instructions?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I think that the right reverend Prelate was referring to the process of removal. A few weeks ago, I visited the UK Border Agency’s training for the removal process. I am satisfied that the training was up to standard.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, this issue is an example of the many responsibilities being placed on the UK Border Agency in conjunction with the National Health Service. Is the Minister satisfied that the UKBA will continue to focus on and give priority to these matters, given the 20 per cent cut in its budget and the reduction in its staff by 5,000? Is it not a question of cutting too fast and too deep?
Earl Attlee
No, my Lords, it is a question of prioritising resources, and I am confident that the UK Border Agency will be able to carry out its statutory duties.
Lord Avebury
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the UKBA appears to have no recent policy on HIV-positive detainees, but that there is anecdotal evidence that some of them are being denied medication while in detention and that they are being given only one month’s supply of ARVs when they are removed? Will the Government consult the British HIV Association with a view to adopting the guidelines which it published two years ago, including provision of a three-month supply of medication to those who are deported, which would give patients at least some chance of finding an alternative source of treatment?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, while asylum seekers are in the UK and have not exhausted their appeal rights, they are entitled to the full range of NHS services. Asylum seekers who are returned should be supplied with sufficient drugs to meet their needs and tide them over until they can access drugs in their country of return. However, I will look further into the issue raised by the noble Lord and come back to him.
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
My Lords, I declare an interest; I serve on the Select Committee on HIV/AIDS. The noble Earl said that people who are awaiting news of their asylum status are entitled to the full range of NHS services. Will he confirm that in fact people who test positive for HIV are not able to access free treatment?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, as far as I know those who test positive for HIV in the UK, as long as they have not exhausted all their appeal rights, have exactly the same access to NHS treatment as the rest of the population. If the noble Baroness knows any different, I would be grateful for the details.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the issue is whether the person being returned is fit to fly. That decision is made by NHS health professionals, not by UK Border Agency staff.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock
My Lords, Mr Nick Clegg promised that the coalition would end the detention of the children of asylum seekers. Why, eight months after the election, has that not been done?
The Countess of Mar
My Lords, I speak as a former member of the Immigration Appeal Tribunal. Does the noble Earl agree that there is a large amount of case law relating to the returning of asylum seekers who are sick to their own countries, and that on the whole the tribunal abides by this case law?
The Countess of Mar
There is a large amount of case law that, on the whole, the tribunal abides by in reaching its assessments.
Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Amendment) Order 2011
Earl Attlee Excerpts(15 years ago)
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Earl Attlee
That the draft orders laid before the House on 13 and 24 January be approved.
Relevant documents: 13th and 14th Reports from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments. Considered in Grand Committee on 7 February.
Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Amendment) Order 2011
Earl Attlee Excerpts(15 years ago)
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Earl Attlee
That the Grand Committee do report to the House that it has considered the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Amendment) Order 2011.
Relevant Documents: 13th Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I beg to move that the Committee considers the draft Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Amendment) Order 2011, which was laid before Parliament on 10 January. If it is made, this order in council will bring two new drugs, tapentadol and amineptine, under the control of the 1971 Act and clarify the legislation on mephedrone. Tapentadol is a recently developed, centrally acting analgesic or painkiller, which is likely to be marketed in the UK in the near future following licensing by the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency, or MHRA.
The effects and risks associated with tapentadol are similar to those of other opioid analgesics, including hydromorphone and morphine, which are both controlled as class A drugs under the 1971 Act. Tapentadol presents a risk of addiction, diversion from legitimate sources and potential medicinal misuse. The risks associated with an overdose of tapentadol are constriction of the pupils, vomiting, loss of consciousness, seizures, difficulty in breathing and a risk of serious complications likely to lead to death.
Amineptine, on the other hand, is a powerful and fast acting antidepressant whose misuse has been reported mainly in Asia and Europe. In 2003, the Commission on Narcotic Drugs, on the recommendation of the World Health Organisation, decided to include amineptine in Schedule II to the Convention on Psychotropic Substances of 1971. As a signatory to the 1971 convention, the UK has to schedule amineptine under the 1971 Act to meet its international obligations.
Clinical studies indicate that amineptine has the potential for both dependence and misuse, predominantly in patients with a previous history of substance misuse. The withdrawal symptoms associated with amineptine include anxiety, psychomotor agitation and insomnia. Instances of dependence have been reported in Asia and Europe. The Government have consulted the advisory council as required by statute for both drugs, and in July last year it provided advice on tapentadol and amineptine following consideration of their harms. The advisory council reports that there is no evidence of licit or illicit use of tapentadol or amineptine in the UK. However, it supports the control of both drugs due to the potential harm associated with them. The advisory council also recommends that tapentadol and amineptine are controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act—in class A and class C respectively—and Schedule 2 to the Misuse of Drugs Regulations 2001. The Government have accepted its recommendations.
The Committee will recollect that mephedrone and other cathinone derivatives—a group of so-called legal highs—were brought under the control of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 as class B drugs from 16 April 2010, with cross-party agreement in the final days of the last Parliament. If it is made, the latest Order in Council will also clarify the legislation on mephedrone, subsuming it within the generic definition used to control other cathinone derivatives at the time. Under current drafting, there can be uncertainty surrounding whether Article 2(a) or 2(b) of the 2010 order amending the 1971 Act is applicable to a given sample when preparing a charge for offences relating to mephedrone. The amendment will remove that uncertainty and ensure clarity and consistency for prosecutors, enabling all charges for the possession, supply and production of mephedrone to be prepared under the generic definition in paragraph 1(aa) of the 1971 Act.
This Order in Council, if it is made, will ensure that while honouring its obligations as a signatory to the 1971 UN convention, the UK will also be taking precautionary measures, based on the assessment of harms and the potential for misuse highlighted by the advisory council, by controlling tapentadol and amineptine under the 1971 Act.
There will be no designation order in the case of the two new drugs we seek to control through this Order in Council, as both drugs have legitimate medicinal uses. However, it is intended to make two further related statutory instruments which will be subject to the negative resolution procedure. The misuse of drugs designation amendment order 2011 will amend the Misuse of Drugs (Designation) Order 2001, subsuming mephedrone within the generic definition in the order. The misuse of drugs amendment regulations 2011 will similarly amend the Misuse of Drugs Regulations 2001, bringing mephedrone within the generic definition in the 2001 regulations and including tapentadol and amineptine in Schedule 2 to the 2001 regulations. Those instruments will be laid so as to come into force at the same time as the Order in Council, if it comes into force as proposed.
The Government will publicise the approved law changes on tapentadol and amineptine and the clarification of the legislation on mephedrone through a Home Office circular.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I am sure we are all grateful to the noble Earl for his remarks in introducing this order. The scientific evidence and advice on which the Government have acted is very clear and I welcome the Government’s action. The first two provisions in the order follow advice from the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs. A letter about tapentadol from Professor Les Iversen of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs in July 2010 concludes that the abuse liability of the drug would be substantial and has the potential to cause social harm through diversion and addiction. Measures for amineptine were also on the recommendation of the advisory committee, which supports that drug being controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971.
The Explanatory Memorandum discloses that no consultation has taken place on this and that the Minister’s department has concluded that it is not necessary or beneficial so to do. The noble Earl will be aware that the Merits Select Committee has suggested that this Committee should satisfy itself that the review processes for the changes are sufficiently robust. I invite the noble Earl to respond to that comment of the Merits Select Committee.
In relation to these first two drugs, I take this opportunity to thank Professor Iversen and his advisory committee for the extremely valuable work that they do. The Minister has also explained that the changes in the draft order about mephedrone will not affect its classification. It is, and will remain, a class B controlled drug. The proposed clarification is simply a technical change in the legislation to make it more straightforward for prosecuting authorities to prepare charges. That seems extremely sensible and the Official Opposition are glad to support the proposal.
It is only a few months ago that mephedrone was brought under the control of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 as a class B drug. As has been explained, the paperwork accompanying the order makes it very clear that these drugs are harmful and dangerous and, in addition to legislative controls, a series of actions is required going beyond law enforcement and embracing prevention, public health and education. I would be grateful if the noble Earl could say something about what progress has been made on these fronts since the drug received the classification last April.
I would also like to ask the Minister about the impact of the proposed changes to the National Health Service on public health programmes in relation to this and other drugs. In so doing, I should refer to my declaration of a number of interests of mine in healthcare, declared in the House of Lords register of interests.
I understand that many useful public health programmes in relation to drugs are organised and funded locally by primary care trusts. The noble Earl will be aware that, under legislation now in the other place, primary care trusts are due to be abolished, with most of their public health functions being transferred to local authorities, alongside ring-fenced funding. Perhaps the noble Earl—if not today, but in writing—can assure me that his department will work very closely with the Department of Health and CLG to ensure that the budgets for drug prevention work, which are currently held locally, will be protected and that local authorities will be strongly encouraged to be proactive in that area.
Baroness Hamwee
I, too, am happy to support this order. I would like to follow up the questions asked by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, on consultation. The Merits of Statutory Instruments Committee referred in its report to amineptine having been dealt with by the Commission on Narcotic Drugs as long ago as 2003. That is quite startling. I am sure that the noble Earl will have been briefed as to the reason for the delay.
I also want to ask about the reference in the Explanatory Memorandum to consultation not being necessary. One might say that it is or is not, but at least one would understand it. I simply do not understand why consultation may not be “beneficial”, which is the term used in paragraph 8.1 of the Explanatory Memorandum. When is consultation not beneficial? I hope that the noble Earl can find an answer to that perhaps more philosophical question.
Earl Attlee
I am grateful for the helpful response from all noble Lords in this short debate. I think that the most important point to be made is about consultation, which, of course, is necessary. But it is achieved in a variety of ways, including the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs talking to the manufacturers of drugs, particularly of tapentadol, and to the medical health care regulatory agency. Of course, we keep all these matters under review.
The noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, asked me some NHS questions which I think he would agree were rather wider than this order, which is concerned with avoiding harm from therapeutic and recreational drugs. But I will draw our debate to the attention of my noble friend Lord Howe.
As regards mephedrone, there are frank website discussions about its dangers. Ministers have written to organisers of summer music festivals. There is also the student campaign promoting the message that just because something is legal, that does not make it safe. There are ongoing campaigns to educate people of the danger of so-called legal drugs.
Approval of this order will ensure that the UK continues to meet its international obligations and that our drug laws are effective in relation to newly developed pharmaceutical drugs entering the UK market. Controlling these drugs will ensure that the necessary regulatory framework is in place to protect the public from the potential harms associated with these drugs. We will continue to highlight that mephedrone is harmful and that it remains a class B drug, monitor the trends and the misuse of the drugs being proposed for control, and assess the impact of the controls introduced by this order.
Baroness Hamwee
Perhaps I may come back to two points that I made, which may have sounded a little flippant but were serious. The first concerns the delay since 2003, and the other the reference to consultation not being beneficial. If my noble friend Lord Attlee cannot answer these now, I should be grateful if he would write to me with a copy circulated to other Members of the Committee.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I never said that the consultation would not be beneficial. I said that it would be beneficial, but that the impact assessment—to which I think my noble friend referred—or the Explanatory Memorandum said that it would not be necessary. It was not necessary or beneficial because of the ACMD process, the activities of the MRHA and consultation with the manufacturer.
I did not answer her question about why it has taken so long for the UK to control amineptine when it was scheduled under the UN convention. Amineptine came to light following an audit carried out to ensure that the UK was fulfilling its international obligations. As soon as this came to light, the Government consulted the ACMD, as required under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, and, following its advice, have moved swiftly to bring amineptine on to the 1971 Act. However, at no time during this period were the public exposed to any risks from this drug, as amineptine has never been available or licensed in the UK. The ACMD has confirmed that there was no evidence of illicit use of amineptine in the UK. I hope that that answers my noble friend’s questions.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, as regards consultation, the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, has been helpful. I think he is saying that the advisory committee and the MHRA have gone through their own public consultation procedures and that therefore it is not necessary to do so again. Perhaps he could confirm that. In an otherwise very clear Explanatory Memorandum, it would have been helpful if that point had been raised.
Earl Attlee
I am obliged to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath. He is absolutely right.