Fishing Industry

Clive Efford Excerpts

Thursday 28th November 2024 Westminster Hall

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Order. I have had a number of requests from people who want to leave before the Front-Bench responses. I cannot allow that to happen—certainly not in the large numbers that have made requests. If you intend not to be here, I cannot call you to speak. If you make interventions, you might find the Chair sympathetic if you take a little longer than normal. I understand that this is a very important constituency issue. I remind anyone who wants to speak that they should be on their feet so that I can see who wants to be called.

Future of Fishing

Clive Efford Excerpts

Tuesday 5th November 2024 Westminster Hall

[Rupert Lowe]

We should bring fishing communities and their generational knowledge into the policymaking process. We should guarantee sustainable stocks by working closely with national partners and regional organisations such as the North East Atlantic Fisheries Commission, and by implementing a dynamic management system. We need wholesale reform of the quota system and a ban on the commercial trading of fishing quotas. We should use stringent tax and provenance tests to prevent foreign owners from using a British flag of convenience. Crucially, we should ensure full British control over our exclusive economic zone.

The time has come for all Members of this House who represent coastal communities to come together to fight for British fishermen. We must unite and push this Government to restore full British fishing rights in British waters. Anything short of that would be an unacceptable failure.

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

I remind Members who intend to speak to stand in their place to give me a chance of understanding how many people want to make a contribution.

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[Lorraine Beavers (Blackpool North and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

I come from Fleetwood, and our fishing industry was decimated after the cod wars. My husband works in fish processing in my area, and let me tell the hon. Gentleman that Brexit, which was introduced under his party’s leadership, destroyed fish exports from Fleetwood. Every Monday, a van used to come from Peterhead and stop at Fleetwood; we used to fill it up with fish, and it went out to France. That has never happened since we left the European Union. The legislation that the Labour party is bringing in will secure jobs on Fleetwood dock and look after the men who work there. Fish processing is very hard work. It is very cold, and it is a skill—

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Order. This is an intervention, not a speech.

[Robbie Moore]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention, but have to politely disagree, given the concerns that have been raised by businesses and wider industry about the impact that the Employment Rights Bill will have on employers—not only those that want to recruit temporary staff, but those that are directly involved throughout the whole supply chain. Having a farming background, I am well aware how difficult it is for anyone producing food in any primary industry, not least the fishing industry or the farming sector. Can we see the Government’s analysis of the economic impact of the Bill on the food processing sector, and can the Minister tell us his view on the impact it will have on the primary sector? I fear that it is far worse than the Government are saying.

We all want to see fairer access and a fairer deal for our fishermen. Time is of the essence as we move towards 2026. I hope that the Government will aim high in their aspirations to achieve a better deal for our fishermen.

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[Seamus Logan]

You are describing the new deal that you are going to reach with the European Union, but it does not address the problems to do with freedom of movement and the labour shortages that some of us have mentioned, so will you say something about your plans to deal with those labour shortages through new visa arrangements, please?

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Order. Hon. Members keep referring to “you”. You are speaking through the Chair, so when you say “you”, you mean me. It is a mistake that I have made, but I remind you not to use the word “you” unless addressing the Chair. It is “the hon. Member” or “the Minister”.

[Daniel Zeichner]

I would be delighted if you were to resolve all these issues, Mr Efford, but it falls to me. The hon. Member tempts me into a wider discussion about the reset with the European Union. I will speak carefully and limit my observations today to fisheries, but I will acknowledge that labour matters are a particular challenge for this sector, and there are benefits to be found if we can get a good outcome. The point that I was making is that we are now able to place our own domestic priorities—particularly the environmental, social and economic factors—at the centre of our priorities for UK fisheries.

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[Daniel Zeichner]

I very much hear what the hon. Gentleman is saying. The visa issues are complicated but important, and there certainly could be opportunities if we can achieve the right outcome.

The Fisheries Act 2020 set the broad outlines of where we will be going, and it and the joint fisheries statement that followed it detail the objectives for a thriving and sustainable fishing industry, which I know we all want to see. Since 2020, the UK has demonstrated its own approach to fisheries and to its role on the international stage. As an international coastal state, our relationship with the EU sits alongside our relationships with other international partners, as well as domestic partners. It is our status as an independent coastal state that gives us the right to negotiate with others in the north-east Atlantic on management measures for mackerel, blue whiting and Atlanto-Scandian herring. Those are important stocks for the UK that sadly have been overfished in recent years because of the lack of proper sharing arrangements between the coastal states. We are pushing for comprehensive quota-sharing arrangements that are in the best interests of stock sustainability and of the UK catching and processing sectors.

As hon. Members will be aware, a full and faithful implementation of the fisheries heading of the trade and co-operation agreement will see access for EU vessels to the UK zone become a matter for annual negotiation, which will sit alongside our annual consultations on catch limits with a range of coastal states and international fora on fishing opportunities. Let me repeat that our ambitions for fisheries are no longer tied to the EU common fisheries policy. We have our own objectives for our own UK fishing industry, and they are central to our priorities and to the thriving and sustainable fishing industry that we want.

As I have already said, the fisheries management plans are a key part of the way in which we intend to take the industry forward. I again pay tribute to the previous Government; they set that process in train and we are pleased to continue it. We are grateful for the support of the fishing sector and wider stakeholders in helping to shape the plans; they are being developed collaboratively with the fishing industry, and I think they are probably being looked at elsewhere around the world as an example of how best to manage the complicated trade-offs in our maritime space. The spokesperson for the Liberal Democrats, the hon. Member for South Devon (Caroline Voaden), raised the spatial squeeze issue. We are very aware of that, and we will come back to the House with proposals in the coming months and years.

The fisheries management plans will play a crucial role in supporting the long-term sustainability of fishing businesses and delivering growth in coastal communities. As I have said, they are internationally recognised as the gold standard in managing fisheries. They protect and, where necessary, set out how to maintain or restore fish stocks to sustainable levels. Progress is being made. We have now published a sixth plan and work is being done to implement actions in the previously published plans. Legislation was recently introduced that will bring into law a number of the fisheries management measures set out in those plans. As I said, we opened consultations on the next five FMPs on 10 October.

Beyond FMPs, we are putting in place a wider set of fisheries management reforms, in line with our domestic priorities as an independent coastal state. They include changes to the way we manage discards, the introduction of remote electronic monitoring, trialling new ways to allocate quota, and the opening of new fisheries, such as for bluefin tuna, which I am sure the hon. Member for Great Yarmouth will welcome. We will of course be looking at all ways to reform and best support all UK fisheries sectors to help our fishing and seafood industries thrive and contribute to economic growth and the nation’s food security.

We are also considering the role of inshore and under-10 metre fisheries, including those in my part of the world—the east of England—and how we can best support that sector. A number of initiatives we are undertaking will benefit those inshore fishers, including the provision of additional quota and new quota trials, which should help the inshore fleet in the long run. We are continuing to engage with the five regional fisheries groups that have been set up for inshore fishers to discuss concerns with policymakers and regulators to help identify problems, contribute to policy development and secure solutions.

In conclusion, the future of UK fisheries will be driven by our domestic agenda. We have domestic frameworks, including the Fisheries Act and joint fisheries statements, and policies such as the fisheries management plans that are part of the improvements we seek to make. For many years, our fisheries management was dictated by the EU common fisheries policy. That is no longer the case. Our relationship with the EU remains important and sits alongside other relationships we hold as an independent coastal state. We will continue to meet our international obligations, including those of the TCA, and the default arrangements for access after 2026 are clear. There are many opportunities ahead for our fishing sector. The Government are committed to making the most of them to secure the industry and ensure that it can best contribute to our country’s food security and economic growth, but this will be driven by our own domestic objectives.

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

I call Rupert Lowe to briefly sum up the debate.

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[Rupert Lowe]

I thank the hon. Member—my Celtic is not great. I thank him for his contribution and agree that we need a complete review of our fishing arrangements now that we have the ability to do that.

The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) made some extremely valuable points, particularly about visas. We have also talked about apprenticeships, which are incredibly important. I run businesses in electrical contracting, and we have a huge apprenticeship scheme. That is something we should be looking at for the fishing industry and the fish processing industry.

The hon. Member for Aberdeenshire North and Moray East (Seamus Logan)—

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Order. This is a brief summing-up of the debate and the hon. Member should use it to get his message across to the Minister, not to respond to all the speakers’ points. Will he sum up briefly?

[Rupert Lowe]

Okay. The other point that I want to make about the debate, which came out quite clearly, is that the British people voted to take back our own sovereignty. That, I am afraid, is an indisputable fact, and it is something we have to respect. The Government’s primary job is to protect the interests of the British people, and it is important that we understand that. My hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice) made an incredibly important point about over-regulation, which is now rife in all our markets. It has destroyed our stock market, and if we are not careful it will strangle enterprise and damage our industries.

I thank everyone else for their speeches and interventions. I think we can all agree that the way the British fishing industry has been treated by those in these corridors is nothing short of unacceptable. It has been ignored, forgotten and sacrificed. We have let entire coastal communities rot and decay—whole towns decimated, once-thriving economies ruined—because this place did not have the courage to fight for them. It is a shameful legacy that has alienated entire generations up and down our coastline. We are an island nation surrounded by some of the most fertile seas on the planet, yet we are a net importer of fish. Does anything sum up the sheer madness of Britain’s relentless managed decline more than that? The fishermen of Great Yarmouth deserve better, the fishermen of Norfolk deserve better, and the fishermen of every single coastal town and port deserve better.

I will finish with a quote from Aneurin Bevan, which I thought hit the mark. He said:

“This island is made mainly of coal and surrounded by fish. Only an organising genius could produce a shortage of coal and fish at the same time.”

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the future of fishing after 2026.

Chalk Streams: Sewage Discharge

Clive Efford Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Olivia Bailey (Reading West and Mid Berkshire) (Lab)]

I, too, thank the hon. Member for securing a debate on this crucial issue. My constituency of Reading West and Mid Berkshire boasts several beautiful chalk streams. The Pang is one and it is said to have inspired “The Wind in the Willows”. I recently tested the water quality there with campaigners from the Angling Trust and found phosphate levels were three times what they should be. We would not find Ratty or Mole there any more, sadly, because that is a dangerous level of phosphate.

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Order. Interventions should be brief.

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[Victoria Collins]

I will give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury.

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Clive Jones.

[Clive Jones (Wokingham) (LD)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harpenden and Berkhamsted (Victoria Collins) on securing the debate, and I thank her for giving way—as I do my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Mr Dillon).

My constituency of Wokingham is blessed with the River Loddon, which flows across its boundaries. It is a rich, biodiverse environment and a reminder of the beauty in our natural world, yet the scourge of sewage discharges persists. Thames Water must make the necessary infrastructure investments to halt its appalling record, but the company’s future is far from certain and those plans may be undermined.

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Order. Can you bring your comments to a conclusion? This is a very short debate, but there are long interventions.

[Clive Jones]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government must ensure that these investments proceed, no matter the financial position of Thames Water?

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[Jess Brown-Fuller (Chichester) (LD)]

In the Chichester constituency, we have two crucial chalk streams: the River Ems and the River Lavant. Portsmouth Water has been abstracting from the River Ems since the 1960s, which has moved the flow two kilometres downstream at the point of flow. Does the Minister agree that water companies that rely on our chalk streams to supplement their water supply need to come up with some sustainable water solutions to ensure our water supply for the future? [Interruption.]

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Order. There is a Division in the House, so we must suspend the sitting for 15 minutes.

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On resuming—

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Order. I think that the debate will finish at 4.46 pm.

[Emma Hardy]

I had just taken an intervention from the hon. Member for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller), who talked about the excessive removal of water and the situation that she finds herself in with the water company. I agree that we need to look for a long-term solution.

When we abstract too much water, that increases the concentration of pollutants and the water temperature, and decreases oxygen levels, leading to increased silt and loss of habitat. As the hon. Member for Henley and Thame (Freddie van Mierlo) mentioned, the physical habitat of our chalk streams has also been altered. They have been modified by people over recent decades, limiting the naturally varied habitats that plants and animals rely on and exacerbating the negative impacts of abstraction and pollution. Taken together, along with the sewage incidents, these pressures are placing our chalk streams under increasing strain and environmental stress.

In the constituency of the hon. Member for Harpenden and Berkhamsted, where chalk streams including the River Lea and River Ver flow, these pressures are no different. That is why this Government are continuing to ensure the conservation of chalk streams. Under the Government’s water industry national environment programme, improvements have been agreed for three waste water treatment works in the Harpenden and Berkhamsted constituency. They include stricter phosphorus limits for the discharge of fully treated sewage effluent and improved waste water flow monitoring to ensure that the required volumes of sewage receive full treatment before any storm overflow can occur. The capacity of the Berkhamsted waste water treatment works to fully treat sewage has also been increased from 247 litres to 316 litres per second, providing for a higher and larger quality of treated effluent.

The Environment Agency is investigating the cause of a prolonged storm discharge from the Markyate sewage treatment works into the River Ver. Unfortunately, as it is a live investigation, I cannot go into more detail now, but I greatly encourage the hon. Member for Harpenden and Berkhamsted to speak to the director of the Environment Agency about that and, of course, when the investigation is concluded, we can have a more detailed conversation about the issue and about what enforcement action can be taken.

I should also note that the Environment Agency has been working with Affinity Water and local partners to revitalise chalk rivers by leaving more water in the environment, addressing the issue of over-abstraction of our chalk rivers, and improving the physical habitat and water flow. Water abstractions across the catchment have been reduced by 33.3 megalitres per day, with a further reduction of 23.5 megalitres per day to be delivered by spring 2025. This is ongoing work in progress to address over-abstraction from chalk streams, which we rightly recognise is a concern.

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[Dr Chambers]

On the earlier point about nature restoration around chalk streams, in Winchester we have the River Itchen going right through the heart of the city. A lot of farming clusters around the edge are looking at protecting nature on the side of the chalk streams. One specific issue we have is flea and worm treatments that are used to treat parasites in cats and dogs. They are overprescribed—they are used within routine health plans, which is not really necessary—and they contain neonicotinoids which can contaminate the chalk streams and damage the ecosystems and the insects that live in them. Would the Minister look at how we can put pressure on the veterinary industry to allow vets to make clinical decisions on whether treatment is needed rather than customers having a blanket treatment every month, whether it is needed or not?

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Order. Interventions have to be short; this is a half-hour debate.

[Emma Hardy]

I will go on to talk about agriculture and some of those other issues.

To turn to sewage, which I know is on the minds of many people, we have undoubtedly inherited a deeply flawed system and one that is now discharging record levels of sewage into our lakes and streams, and into our chalk streams. This is a public health crisis, demanding our immediate and decisive action to rectify decades of neglect and mismanagement.

We have committed to a rapid review of the environment improvement plan, to be completed by the end of the year, which will set out how DEFRA will deliver the Government’s legally binding targets. The Government will develop a new statutory plan to protect and restore our natural environment, with delivery plans to meet each of our ambitious targets under the Environment Act 2021, including cleaning up our waterways.

This Government require water companies to publish sewage discharge monitoring data online in near real time and in an accessible format. The Environment Agency independently monitors and scrutinises all the data submitted by water companies as part of its requirements for the monitoring of sewage outlets.

All that activity must be seen in the wider context of the actions that this Government are taking to demonstrate our commitment to prioritising the clean-up of all our waterways. In the first weeks of this Labour Government, the Secretary of State met water companies to make it clear to them that under this Government they will be answerable for their performance for customers and the environment. We have secured an agreement from all companies to amend their articles of association, which are the governing rules of each entity, placing customers and the environment at the heart of their objectives, thereby reinforcing the inherent social and moral responsibilities that come with operating a public utility.

The Secretary of State has also written to Ofwat, securing agreement that vital funding for infrastructure is ring-fenced and can only be spent on upgrades that benefit customers and the environment. Ofwat will also ensure that when money for investment is not spent, companies will refund customers, with money never being allowed to be diverted for bonuses, dividends or salary increases.

Fly-tipping

Clive Efford Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2024 Westminster Hall

[Deirdre Costigan]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention, and I certainly agree that the work of local volunteers is hugely beneficial in preventing this problem from being even worse than it is at the moment. I know that, in Ealing, we would not survive without the work of our great friends in LAGER Can, and it sounds as if my hon. Friend has similarly civic-minded residents in his constituency too. I congratulate them on the work that they have done.

The most obvious answer to the fly-tipping crisis is to reduce waste in the first place. Let us turn off the tap of all of the waste that we see on our streets. That could be a real game changer. I know that the Minister has already committed to introducing a deposit return scheme for drinks containers by 2027 that would mean that empty cans and bottles could be returned to shops to get a deposit back. As well as cutting down on empty cans and bottles in black-sack fly-tips, research by Eunomia found that a return scheme could save councils in England up to £35 million annually. We could then spend that money on something else.

I hope that the Minister will consider the merits of a scheme that covers all reusable containers, including glass, from the outset, and it would be useful if she laid out a timetable for bringing that forward. Manufacturers should contribute to the costs to councils of clear-up by providing more take-back services so that people can hand in old furniture and mattresses when they buy new ones. The big prize is to persuade manufacturers to make their goods fully recyclable; the best way to do that is to make them pay for the cost of disposal. That is based on the idea of making the polluter pay. I hope the Minister will also set out a timetable for that approach, known as extended producer responsibility. It will encourage manufacturers to stop producing so much packaging and items that cannot be easily recycled.

Fly-tipping is not a low-level crime. It stops people from feeling proud of where they live, it encourages other crime and antisocial behaviour, and it costs millions of pounds to clean up—money that could be used for vital public services. I look forward to the Minister giving my constituents in Ealing Southall confidence that, after over a decade of inaction by the Conservatives, this new Labour Government will finally take fly-tipping seriously, with a national fly-tipping strategy, stiffer penalties for the culprits, and ways of reducing waste in the first place.

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

If a Member intends to catch my eye in the debate, they must be on their feet now. I will impose a time limit of five minutes.

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[Dr Huq]

It sounds like a panacea, but we do not know who these people are, so there are a lot of issues. But yes, as my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing Southall pointed out, having more funding from central Government would be great after 14 years of cash-strapped councils. If we get rid of the booking system, the possibility of spontaneously mowing the lawn and taking the waste down to wherever would also be opened up.

I think we are running out of time and there are lots of Members present, but I want to praise LAGER Can and Kathy Swift on tirelessly doing community clean-ups. It terms of the necessity of having such groups, it is a bit like food banks: the fact that we have more food banks than branches of McDonald’s in this country is really a sign of state failure. It should not be Kathy who is cleaning up every unofficial dump in a borough of 360,000 people.

This has been a great debate, and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing Southall. Let us install some community pride in areas, because well-maintained areas are less likely to become hotspots for dumping. I hope our suggestions do not fall on deaf ears. In a similar way to the Jubilee 2000 debt campaigners, let us make fly-tipping history.

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Order. I remind Members that giving way eats into the time of those who want to speak later. I call Jim Shannon, who has four minutes.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

That is okay—I will keep to the four minutes and I will not take an intervention either. I congratulate the hon. Member for Ealing Southall (Deirdre Costigan) on setting the scene with much information, detail and good ideas. I fully support her idea for a national strategy, which is one of the things I was going to ask for, ever mindful of where we are. It is nice to see the Minister back in her place after a short time away from the House, and I look forward to hearing her contribution at the end.

Very quickly, I want to give a Northern Ireland perspective and to reinforce what the hon. Member for Ealing Southall said—these things are mirrored all across the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Fly-tipping has become such a massive issue, including in my constituency of Strangford, where constituents report countless incidents of fly-tipping to my office almost every week. It is time for us to have a debate in Westminster Hall on how we can work together to tackle this issue.

The Northern Ireland Environment Agency has revealed that, from 2018 to 2020, it cleaned up 306 illegal waste sites across Northern Ireland, with taxpayers paying the half a million-pound bill, which is equivalent to employing 15 nurses. That is what we could do with the money if we did not have to spend it cleaning up afterwards. Fifteen nurses would be a big thing for us in Northern Ireland and a big thing in the constituency of the hon. Member for Ealing Southall as well.

Collective action is required to tackle fly-tipping. It is a serious crime, and that is without mentioning its devastating impacts on our environment. In the past, my council—Ards Borough Council, as it was then—used to have a system of skips that went around all the villages. Whenever a skip was filled up, the council brought a new one. Unfortunately, as the years passed, that seemed to fall by the wayside. New councils were amalgamated and that strategy was lost.

In 2023, the then Prime Minister’s antisocial behaviour action plan set out how councils would be supported in taking tougher action against those caught fly-tipping. That included raising the upper limit for on-the-spot fines to £1,000. In 2018, there were 74 cases of fly-tipping in the constituency of Strangford, and many fear that that will increase due to the new recycling centre booking system introduced just recently. There is no doubt that fly-tipping is wrong, and we must have a punitive system in place to ensure that it does not happen. However, we must also ensure that waste centres are accessible to constituents to ensure that fly-tipping does not become more common. If we make it illegal, we have to put something in its place.

It is important for residents to report fly-tipping, but not to touch it. I want to put out this caution: in many cases, there might be contaminated waste, such as syringes—that is the society we live in—broken glass, asbestos, or toxic chemicals and other hazardous substances that can severely harm individuals, and especially young children, or animals. In addition, it is important not to disturb a site in case there is evidence that could identify the fly-tippers and lead to their prosecution.

To conclude, it is an unfortunate reality that there are numerous incidents of fly-tipping and illegal dumping across the UK on a daily basis. Our local councils are working hard to prevent them, so I ask the Minister to do the very thing the hon. Member for Ealing Southall has referred to: introduce a national strategy covering all the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland—because we always do things better if we do them together—and, with that in place, ensure that all councils are given the powers to enforce tougher fines and even prosecute fly-tippers. We can do better, and we will hear shortly from the Minister on how she will do just that.

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Order. I will bring in the Front Benchers at 5.8 pm. In order to do that, I have to bring the time limit down to three minutes.

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[Dr Lauren Sullivan (Gravesham) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Efford. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing Southall (Deirdre Costigan) for securing this important debate on fly-tipping. As we have heard, fly-tipping blights communities and landowners, on both publicly and privately owned land. There is a misconception that fly-tipping is a small-scale crime committed by individuals or unscrupulous small waste removal businesses. The reality is that it is often connected with organised crime.

I give credit to my local authority, Gravesham borough council, for the work it has done on tackling the problem in my constituency. It recognised the impact of fly-tipping and in 2020 set up the environmental enforcement team. The team uses a range of enforcement actions to prevent and tackle the issue, from verbal advice right up to criminal prosecution. Indeed, in the past year the team prosecuted 39 cases, each resulting in successful prosecutions. They work closely with the media team and Kent police to raise awareness and deter other potential offenders. I put on record my thanks to the team and its partners, as well as to the over 500 Gravesham community champions, for helping clear up our streets.

That good work, however, is often not enough, and there are outstanding issues to be addressed, of which I will raise a couple now. Small authorities such as Gravesham do not have access to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency database, so if a person is suspected of committing an offence, small authorities have to follow the DVLA rules. It would help those agencies if they could have access to the database, so that they could do more forensic investigations. The other issue is about justice in the courts system. We know that there is a huge backlog in that system, but it is also about the chasing of unpaid financial penalties that do not necessarily cover the cost of clean-up. Again, it is about the flexibility of the fixed penalty notices.

My final reflection is about the legislative framework. When I reached out to Gravesham borough council, it quoted six main pieces of legislation that it operates under. Simplifying that legislation and putting it all in one place will make it easier for local authorities to use, our courts to prosecute and the general public to understand. I hope that that could be looked at over the course of the Government’s term. I look forward to hearing the Minister set out her Department’s policies in that area, and to working with Government on the matter. We can all agree that those who blight our beautiful countryside and streets should be the ones to pay to clear it, or, better still, that they should not dump in the first place.

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

You are all being very good.

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[Paulette Hamilton]

I thank the hon. Member. On this occasion, because I was at the top of a local council and I know how expensive it is, I feel that the responsibility should be on the private owner to secure their property and to ensure that it is kept free of fly-tipping. If it is not free of fly-tipping, I, Paulette Hamilton, because I worked on a local council, believe that they should work with the local council to try to remove it, but the cost cannot be borne by the council because they have not got the money. I will carry on—

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Order. You won’t. I call James Asser.

[James Asser (West Ham and Beckton) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing Southall (Deirdre Costigan) for securing the debate. It is a huge issue for residents, as other contributors have said, but it is also a huge area of pressure for councils, as finances and resources have been squeezed very hard and bin and street cleaning services are already resource-intense, taking up a lot of time for all of our local authorities.

It is worth asking how we define fly-tipping, because often it is presented just as a man in a van dumping white goods by the side of the road. That is an issue, as we have heard, but, in many areas, it is more about low-level rubbish being dumped on streets, often through ignorance of a system that creates fly-tipping hotspots or a lack of understanding about when one should present waste.

Councils have the dilemma of whether to collect the waste, thereby hiding the problem rather than solving it but clearing the streets, or to leave it for investigation, which creates distress for residents because the streets are a mess. In my borough, we have found that this problem can be tackled through education and awareness. In Newham, we saw success by working with residents and Keep Britain Tidy. We piloted wrapping waste in crime investigation-style tape and painting messages where the fly-tips were removed that both highlighted the cost of the removal and what the council could have spent that money on. We found that had an effect: in the immediate term, there was a 64% drop in fly-tipping; in the long-term, there was a 40% drop.

It is worth saying that it did not work in all areas. It was particularly useful in areas where there were residents rather than in areas with high footfall, but the council has moved on to other measures in high-footfall areas, which have led to a 32% drop in those spaces. This is a key point: one size does not fit all. Different areas—both urban and rural—have different problems and we all need different solutions, even within local districts. We need a range of options.

We also need ways of working with the public. As we have heard, they play a vital role. Local people care. They are the eyes and ears, helping to keep their area safe. So, what is the ask of Government? Money and resources for local councils, yes—we all know the demand, but, to help the Minister, this is not just about cash. My hon. Friend the Member for Ealing Southall and others have made the point that we need to share initiatives. We need to share policy ideas and pilot projects. It is difficult for councils to work on their own, and therefore a national strategy and national ways of working are important. In this regard, regional and central Government can do more, bringing together different agencies and bringing together different councils to share those ideas. A national strategy will look at that and at ways we can bring those together and share those good ideas. I hope this is the start of a longer debate that we can make some progress on.

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, Josh Babarinde.

[Josh Babarinde (Eastbourne) (LD)]

Thank you, Mr Efford, for your chairmanship this afternoon. This is my first Westminster Hall debate, and I am very pleased to be able to use it to congratulate the hon. Member for Ealing Southall (Deirdre Costigan) on securing such an important debate on an issue that blights so many communities, including mine in the sunniest town in the UK, Eastbourne. With a million incidents a year that, according to Keep Britain Tidy, cost local authorities and private landowners more than £200 million a year to clear up, the scale of this waste crime epidemic demands debate in this mother of all Parliaments. I thank the hon. Lady for securing it. Although the debate has been devoted to talking trash about trash itself, the quality of the contributions from hon. and right hon. Members has been more reminiscent of treasure—treasure that makes me proud to be a new Member of this House.

Pride has been mentioned a number of times and, fundamentally, it is what the issue of fly-tipping comes down to. Whether the intention is nefarious or not, to fly-tip is to dishonour the pride represented in so many of our communities, such as by Plastic Free Eastbourne or Mucky Mermaids in my patch, who do lots of voluntary work to clean up community spaces. To fly-tip commercially is to dishonour the pride of local waste-collection businesses. We have a number who jump through all the hoops to do things the right way and to earn an honest living, but they are undercut by those cowboy waste-collection companies that are the perpetrators of some of the worst fly-tipping. To fly-tip is also to dishonour the pride of our waste-disposal workers in their jobs, and in keeping our streets clean—people such as Sean Towey, Martin Hobbs, Karen Cavie and Richard Westgate in Eastbourne, whom I met recently. They are proud to keep our streets clean, but their work is blighted by fly-tipping.

To fly-tip is to dishonour pride in our environment, the beauty of which is destroyed by wrongly dumped waste, with wildlife put at risk by often hazardous materials. Only last week, we had a case of asbestos being dumped on Paradise Drive in Eastbourne. To fly-tip is to dishonour the pride of our farmers, who have been mentioned in the debate, and 85% of them report that it is a problem on their land. On average, each removal costs about £1,000. I was pleased that the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Connor Naismith) mentioned that in his speech as well.

All those things and more make fly-tipping an inherently antisocial practice, and one that the law is right to sanction. The problem is, however, that at the moment such sanction feels like an offer that is not properly taken up. If we look at the figures from the Office for National Statistics, we find that of the 1 million fly-tipping incidents that happen a year, only 2,000 led to a prosecution last year—that is 0.018%. More than that, last year only about 1,800 fines were issued by courts for fly-tipping incidents, with a total value of £837,000, which equates to just 77p per incident. It is not working, and local council resources have been gutted by the previous Government, which means that their capacity to enforce fixed penalty notices has been gutted as well. That is tantamount to legalising littering, and we need a clear change.

The Liberal Democrats are calling for court fines to be increased substantially and for the proceeds to be pumped into a fly-tipping fighting fund to invest in local authorities’ capacity to crack down on waste crime on the ground as part of a national effort to get to grips with it, as the hon. Members for Strangford (Jim Shannon), for Ealing Central and Acton (Dr Huq) and for Gravesham (Dr Sullivan) discussed. From my career tackling youth crime and antisocial behaviour before I entered this place, I can say that enforcement is only part of the story. In the first instance, prevention is just as critical.

We can check out amazing initiatives such as Newham council’s social impact stencils, mentioned by the hon. Member for West Ham and Beckton (James Asser). That initiative involves painting short, bold and stark messages to educate people about the social, environmental and financial impact of fly-tipping, spray painted on the very spots where it happens most. In one of the pilots in Stratford, a 67% reduction was observed. Beautification is an effective tool as well, making areas particularly beautiful. That was done in in Dover, clearing space—but we can do lots more. I thank the hon. Member for Ealing Southall for securing the debate—

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Order. I call Robbie Moore.

--- Later in debate ---

[Robbie Moore]

I will carry on because Government Members have had enough time.

Councils have to make use of the powers that are awarded to them. To put the closures into perspective, if my local authority took the same action as the local authority of the hon. Member for Ealing Southall, it would be able to set the precedent in creating a clear deterrent. In other words, those who pollute must feel the consequences. How does the Minister plan to work with councils such as Bradford to ensure that they properly utilise the powers and resources that were awarded to them under the previous Government? What specific steps will the new Government take to support councils and hold them to account if they do not take action? As many Members have rightly indicated, a national strategy is the right approach, but how does the Minister intend to utilise those powers and the additional powers that she wants to award to local authorities to address the issue?

On the issue of fly-tipping on private land, what additional measures will the Government take to hold people to account when it is not necessarily their fault that fly-tipping has taken place on private land? Could they potentially be awarded for clearing up the mess rather than facing the full force of the law? As many Members have said, collective responsibility is vital, so we must work together with local authorities—with proper law enforcement—community members and all stakeholders to address this issue.

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

I will stop the Minister after 10 minutes so that I can give the mover of the motion time for a short summing-up speech.

Flood Recovery Framework

Clive Efford Excerpts

Wednesday 17th April 2024 Westminster Hall

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Order. Two more Back Benchers want to speak. I want to bring in the first of the Front Benchers at 10.38 am in order to give them 10 minutes each and Mr Dunne two minutes to wind up.

Hunting Trophies (Import Prohibition) Bill

Clive Efford Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 22nd March 2024 Commons Chamber

[John Spellar]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. Vastly excessive numbers, such as in certain parts of this country where there are problems with deer, have an impact on woodland and the very proper campaigns by the Government to reforest the country. In many cases professional hunters do the cull, rather than having people firing crossbows at animals, which can then linger for several days. Cecil the lion was mentioned. That case caught the attention and imagination of the British public, and it focused them on this issue and they made it clear that they do not want this practice to continue.

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right, but there is another factor to consider. The elephants taken out are the big leaders of the tribe. That has a significant effect on the gene pool. There is already some evidence that elephants with smaller tusks are surviving and therefore, contrary to natural selection, changes are taking place to their appearance. Also, some hunters do not seem to accept that, although some are solitary, many animals live in social structures. We saw that with the death of Cecil the lion and we see with elephants that the social structure and cohesion of elephant herds are completely disrupted. That applies to other creatures as well. Hunting is to the detriment of gene selection and the development and maintenance of groups of species.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

I wholeheartedly support my right hon. Friend’s Bill. As in the title of the Bill, these people are after trophies. They will not select the weakest in the herd or the pride. They will go for the one that looks the most magnificent on their wall or wherever they want to display it. Therefore, they are taking out the strongest, weakening the gene pool and having exactly the opposite effect on conservation. That is another reason why we need to send a strong message and support my right hon. Friend’s Bill.

[John Spellar]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The negative impact on the species as a whole has to be considered, especially, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) said, because we are seeing real reduction in some species. We are getting below the critical mass necessary to sustain the genetic variation of a healthy species.

--- Later in debate ---

[Clive Efford]

I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman for the work he has done on this issue. Is not the answer to the point made by the hon. Member for Christchurch (Sir Christopher Chope) that the Bill deals with the import of trophies to the UK, and says nothing about Botswana?

[Henry Smith]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct. As I said, this is import legislation; its territorial extent is Great Britain. It is about what we choose to import to this country, and a clear majority of the British people do not want the body parts of endangered species imported here, because they care about these majestic species and want them to continue to exist, for the sake of their children, grandchildren and many generations to come. The idea that killing an endangered species saves an endangered species is absurd and should be called out for what it is.

--- Later in debate ---

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

It is an honour to follow the hon. Member for North Herefordshire (Sir Bill Wiggin), but I cannot say that I agreed with a single word of his speech. He quoted David Attenborough, but David Attenborough has described trophy hunting as “incomprehensible” and certainly does not support it. I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Warley (John Spellar) for presenting the Bill, to the hon. Member for Crawley (Henry Smith) for his earlier work, and to our departed friend Bob Blizzard, who did an enormous amount of work on this issue when he was a Member.

I wanted to make this short contribution because I had the privilege of going on safari when my wife and I visited Africa. It was the trip of a lifetime. If I ever have the chance to go back and do it again I do not think it will be the same trip, because the first experience of seeing these magnificent beasts in their own habitat is something you never forget. I want to impress that on the people who seek what I suppose is the “thrill” of murdering these beasts.

Within two hours of arriving at our camp, we were in a truck being taken to look at the wildlife. As we sat in that open-sided truck, a lion walked past the bottom of it; I could look down and see its back as it walked past me. I sat there and thought, “What the hell am I doing here?” There is no cage around the truck, but you trust entirely the stranger you have just met—the guide who takes you around—while a wild beast only a couple of metres away walks calmly past the truck.

The experience of getting close to those animals is something never to be forgotten, but the most memorable experience was seeing, beside the Chobe river in Botswana, a herd of elephants feeding at dusk, talking and grumbling to one another as they ate the reeds on the river bank. We got quite close to these huge beasts, and felt entirely safe. Indeed, we felt that we were privileged to be so close to them in their natural habitat.

The idea that anyone would go into that environment with a gun and slaughter those animals is beyond me. If you want to experience wildlife, don’t go murdering it; get up close to it and experience it in that way. I ask Members to imagine this for a minute. There were probably about a dozen people in our truck. If every one of us had a gun and went out slaughtering these animals, the effect across the species would be enormous, but when large numbers of us go to these countries armed with cameras rather than guns, the effect on their economies is enormous.

We have heard arguments today about being racist towards African countries, but it is not just about African countries. I have not heard anyone say we are being racist to Canadians by not wanting polar bears to be imported. In the words of David Attenborough, this is incomprehensible.

[Sir Bill Wiggin]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Clive Efford]

I am going to give way once, but I do not want to take up too much time.

[Sir Bill Wiggin]

The Canadian Government have not written to object—it is the African countries that object to this. I hope that was clear from what I said earlier.

[Clive Efford]

I am sure it was, but the hunting fraternity only contributes to a very tiny bit of those countries’ economies. What we seem to have heard today is an argument that without the enormous wealth of the people who go trophy hunting, conservation cannot be afforded. I just do not accept that that is a reasonable argument. Of course, people can pay; I would pay an enormous fee for the privilege of going to see these animals in their own habitats—and leave behind that fee in order to pay for conservation. There are ways that we can contribute to conservation that way outstrip the money that Members on the Conservative Benches have been talking about.

Let us be honest: the majority of the people who talked the Bill out in the other place were hereditary peers. That is the truth of it. The enormously privileged wealthy, calling this idea, which has enormous support from all the people, socialist—well, because it has the support of the people, it has to be socialist, doesn’t it? It has to be socialist, because commoners want it! How could the Conservative party possibly support a measure that is so socialist in its fundamental objectives? It is complete nonsense, but there is a species that perhaps we should be metaphorically hunting to extinction: the position of the hereditary peers and their ability to vote on laws in our country. That is an outdated anachronism that has to come to an end, and the person who starts that hunt will have my full backing.

Water Industry: Financial Resilience

Clive Efford Excerpts

Wednesday 28th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Rebecca Pow]

I thank my right hon. and learned Friend. Thames Water is a big water company that delivers on a wide scale. Ofwat is working very closely with the company on its plans, which will be looked over and submitted, and accounts will be submitted in due course, so that we have a resilient pathway. Customers, including his constituents, should rest assured that both their water and wastewater supplies will be protected.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

This privatised industry knows that, at the end of the day, the banker of last resort is the British taxpayer. That is exactly where we are with Thames Water, which has been taking profits for the last 35 years and not investing for the future. Regardless of what went on before, we must have investment in what is in front of the industry, but Thames Water has failed to plan ahead. It has taken money but not done the job expected of it while being in charge of such an essential public service. What will the Government do to protect consumers and ensure that we plan ahead for the industry?

[Rebecca Pow]

Ofwat is the independent regulator and, as the hon. Member will know, the Government direct it through the strategic policy statement. It is Ofwat’s job to ensure that in the price review, when the water companies submit their plans—they are going over the draft plans now—they demonstrate that they will deliver on the Government’s targets on storm overflows, leakage and demand reduction. It is for Ofwat to ensure that companies will be resilient in delivering that infrastructure. There is a firm structure in place. Ofwat also constantly monitors companies’ gearing—debt-to-equity—levels, and the Government are confident that the regulator is taking reasonable measures to challenge companies to reduce those gearing levels where appropriate.

Food Price Inflation

Clive Efford Excerpts

Thursday 23rd March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mark Spencer]

My hon. Friend has asked an important question. This applies to energy production as well as food production, which is why we are moving away from the common agricultural policy to environmental land management schemes that will help farmers not only to produce great food, but to have a positive impact on our environment and our biodiversity.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The Chancellor of the Exchequer may be trying to convince us that he has the economy, and inflation along with it, under control, but food prices show us what is happening to the lives of people in our constituencies. The price of full-fat milk has increased by 42%, the price of low-fat milk by 34%, the price of eggs by 32%, and the price of bread by 21%. These are staple foods that people have to buy. Why is the UK so far out of step with other countries, with such huge food price inflation?

[Mark Spencer]

The hon. Gentleman is right that we are not in step with our European colleagues, who have seen 300% rises in some fruit and vegetable prices. We are way below those sorts of spikes. If we compare food prices across Europe, we see that the UK is very well placed. That is because we have a very robust food supply chain. However, I accept that the fact that it is harder elsewhere is of little consequence to our constituents. We recognise the challenge they face. That is why we have introduced a huge package of support for people with their household bills.

UK Food Shortages

Clive Efford Excerpts

Thursday 23rd February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Dr Coffey]

As ever, my hon. Friend shows that she is a great champion for her constituents by bringing the Taste of Exmoor to Parliament. I do not know whether you had the opportunity to attend that event, Mr Speaker. I am afraid that I did not, because I was returning from the NFU conference. It is important to make sure that we cherish our specialisms in this country. Many people would be eating turnips right now rather than thinking necessarily about lettuce, tomatoes and similar. However, I am conscious that consumers want a year-round choice, and that is what our supermarkets, food producers and growers around the world try to satisfy.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

I always knew that the Conservatives were a bunch of bean counters, but this is off the scale—our supermarkets have had to impose a form of food rationing, while the chief bean counter comes to the Dispatch Box and says, “Crisis? What crisis?” Does the Secretary of State agree with the president of the National Farmers’ Union, Minette Batters, who has accused the Government of a “dereliction of duty” for failing to ensure that we have a fit-for-purpose post-Brexit set of border checks on agricultural imports? That was not what we were promised before the Brexit vote?

[Dr Coffey]

I think the hon. Gentleman should withdraw the words and phrases he used, because I did not use those words at the Dispatch Box. We recognise this particular issue, right now, which is why the Department is already in discussion with retailers, and why the Minister will meet retailers. This incident is driven by aspects of the supply chain, and the primary source for goods right now is an area that was affected by very unusual weather before and after Christmas. To have snow, and the amount of heat that was there, and adverse weather, is pretty unusual and something that the supply chain has to try to manage. Right now supermarkets have chosen a particular way. That is why we will continue to meet them, and I am hoping that this will be a temporary issue. This volatility is unwelcome, but I am conscious that our supply chain is resilient and that we will continue to invest in our farmers for generations to come.

Sewage Pollution

Clive Efford Excerpts

Tuesday 6th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

This issue is linked to a separate but associated challenge around nutrient pollution. We published our proposals to make some changes to deal with this issue on a strategic level before the summer recess, and we may well indeed need some legislative changes as the challenges that he highlights are a legacy of EU law.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State talks as if he is the first Conservative Secretary of State under this Government. The Conservatives have had 12 years to deal with this issue. Now we are seeing images of raw sewage being pumped out into our coastal waters at the height of the summer season. We have had 12 years of freebooting, when chief execs have paid themselves unearned bonuses and billions have been paid out in dividends. It is 33 years since privatisation. We were told that privatisation was the answer to problems like this. Why has the situation got worse, not better?

[George Eustice]

I am afraid that the failure to address storm overflows goes back much further. This is a legacy of the Victorian infrastructure that we have in place, and no Government down the decades in the 20th century properly grasped it. Successive pricing reviews under the Labour Government prioritised price reductions over investments to tackle this challenge. The same was true of the coalition Government. This is the first Government ever to prioritise this issue.