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The Minister for Food Security and Rural Affairs (Daniel Zeichner)
It is always a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Dr Huq.
I start by thanking the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael), who is the Chair of the Select Committee, not only for securing this debate—a really important one, which has been conducted in a civil and constructive way, and I look forward to similar discussions throughout this Parliament—but for his continuing commitment to championing the fishing industry, of which he is extremely knowledgeable.
Orkney and Shetland are crucial parts of the UK seafood industry, and their rich fishing grounds and aquaculture sites provide quality produce that is in demand across Europe and beyond. Back in the summer, I was very pleased to visit the area. In fact, while listening to many of the contributions to the debate, I realised that I have had the pleasure of visiting the constituencies of many Members who have spoken today.
We have heard some excellent speeches today, including the excellent sales job by my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes (Melanie Onn), who gave a powerful account of the importance of fish processors. We also heard a point that is perhaps not widely understood—that so much of the fish we consume is, sadly, not caught by our own fishing fleet but frozen and brought here from other countries.
There was also strong representation from Scotland and the south-west of England. The hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth (Jayne Kirkham) made a similarly strong sales job. In passing, I thank Chris Ranford and the others who made me so welcome in Cornwall back in the summer. When I was in Shetland, I also had the pleasure to hear directly from some of the organisations there—the Scottish Fishermen’s Association and the Shetland Fish Producers Organisation. There are many people to whom I am grateful for informing me about this hugely important, hugely complicated issue.
I was struck by the comments about the safety issues, and indeed the danger that the people working in the industry face. Fishing is a really difficult and dangerous job. One of my first visits to a fishing area was to King’s Lynn, in my own part of the country. I remember standing on the quayside on a very cold January morning, looking at the relatively small craft setting out into the grey and thinking, “This looks like a very, very tough job.” It really is, and of course the risks involved have been outlined very well by several Members today. The right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland, who secured and introduced the debate, made the point about the risks involved very strongly, as did the hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway (John Cooper). The hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George) also outlined those risks. I am very grateful to him, not only for his warm words today, but for his warm welcome when I visited his constituency.
We should all thank the people who do these tough jobs. The Marine Accident Investigation Branch published its 2023 annual report in October, sadly reporting on a year in which three fishing vessels were lost, with the loss of four lives. Those are four tragedies—far too many. We also heard today, from other speakers, about tragedies in the past. Having said all that, I think the industry deserves praise for its efforts to improve safety. That good work must continue, including, as a priority, addressing concerns flagged by the Marine Accident Investigation Branch about potential under-reporting of incidents.
I will try to address the points made by Members today, but I will start by setting out some of the Government’s priorities, because that information was sought by several Members.
We absolutely recognise that the fishing and seafood industry is culturally a significant part of the UK and integral to many communities, particularly our more remote coastal communities. Our fishing fleet and the associated onshore activities play an important role in boosting the growth of regional and coastal economies, including providing jobs. The industry also plays a vital role in our food security, bringing a nutritious source of food to dinner tables across the country. My job title is the Minister for Food Security and Rural Affairs, and I see the fishing sector as playing a vital role in feeding the nation.
Through our fisheries management and our international responsibilities, the UK is absolutely committed to managing our fisheries in a sustainable way—a point that was echoed in virtually every contribution today. By meeting our responsibilities, we will support a vibrant, profitable and sustainable fishing industry alongside a productive and healthy marine environment. I think that goal of achieving a balance is shared by everyone.
What we now have, as an independent coastal state, is the ability to pursue our own approach to managing fisheries, both at home and on the international stage. We want to work increasingly closely with the industry to ensure that we deliver the best outcome for the UK. I will come back to this point: I am really keen that we co-create policy with those who are impacted by it. That point is made repeatedly by the Secretary of State.
Noah Law (St Austell and Newquay) (Lab)
On consultation, too many meetings are held in the middle of the day in the middle of the week. That creates a huge burden for some of the fishers that want to attend them. They are often held in Newlyn or Brixham, the main centres, which can create logistical challenges for those wanting to voice their views on the formation of fisheries management plans. Will the Minister consider that when trying to reach a more hand-in-glove consultation with our fishing communities?
Daniel Zeichner
My hon. Friend makes an important point—one that I used to make when in opposition, and one that I have impressed on officials. The effort has been made to ensure that is considered wherever possible. It is not always easy to find the right times, but we are doing everything we can.
This Government will always back the British fishing industry. We are absolutely keen to boost trade, deliver benefits to UK businesses and push for sustainable fishing opportunities for British vessels; but we recognise the huge challenges that the sector is facing and are engaging closely with industry to create a more secure, sustainable and economically successful fishing industry that we believe will in turn support local communities.
On some of the specifics raised around post-2026 access, as I am sure hon. Members will be aware, a full and faithful implementation of the fisheries heading of the trade and co-operation agreement will see access for EU vessels to the UK zone become a matter for annual negotiation to sit alongside our annual consultations on catch limits with a range of coastal states and international fora on fishing opportunities. That is significant. We will always listen to what the EU has to say on the matter, but we are absolutely determined to protect the interests of our fishers and continue to fulfil our international commitments to protect the marine environment.
The right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland rightly asked who would be leading those discussions; they will be led by my right hon. Friend the Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office. He asked who would speak up for UK fishers; the answer is the UK Fisheries Minister, which is me. I admired the slight cheek of the hon. Member for Epping Forest (Dr Hudson) in challenging me not to let fishers down in those negotiations. I do not want to dwell on past misery, but let us say we are determined to do much better.
Daniel Zeichner
I recognise that there have been some opportunities—not many, but some—and we will do our very best to make more of them. But I do not get a general sense that people in the fishing sector look back and think that was our finest hour. We can do better.
Our ambitions for fisheries are no longer tied to the EU common fisheries policy.
Andrew George
I should have intervened earlier. The Minister is making a strong point. On the back of that, all we have to do is talk to the pollack fisherman in Cornwall to find out how they feel about what has happened in the last year.
Daniel Zeichner
Indeed. I am not sure that the two things are directly related, but having spoken to the pollack fisherman I am under no illusion about how difficult the situation they face is. There was a series of reasons why they had particular problems.
We now have the opportunity to set our own objectives for the UK fishing industry. As I have already set out, we want a thriving, sustainable fishing industry in the future.
I will turn to our ongoing negotiations with the European Union. Fishing opportunities for 2025 for jointly managed stocks between the UK and EU are under negotiation as we speak. I suspect Members know this well, but it is an important and complex agreement covering 74 quota stocks and arrangements for non-quota stocks, too. In those negotiations, as in others, we balance the objectives of the Fisheries Act 2020 and the joint fisheries statement to achieve outcomes that can support both the environmental and economic sustainability of our fisheries. That has been referenced extensively, including by my hon. Friend the Member for Brent West (Barry Gardiner), but we start with the best scientific advice, including advice on maximum sustainable yield where that is available.
Members have also raised the so-called UK-EU-Norway trilateral negotiations, which are also taking place as we speak, in Oslo. We are hoping that they will come to a conclusion before the end of the week. They secure around a third of the UK’s quota opportunities. The UK’s objectives will include following the scientific advice closely in setting those quotas and securing workable arrangements on northern shelf cod.
Alex Mayer (Dunstable and Leighton Buzzard) (Lab)
In recent years, fish and chip shops have—excuse the pun—taken rather a battering. Will the Minister comment on what he is doing to ensure that my constituents, and indeed those of all Members, will be able to continue tucking into that tasty British staple?
Daniel Zeichner
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising the challenge facing the fish and chip shop sector. They are an iconic part of our national landscape, and they have indeed suffered heavily from rising costs. These negotiations are really important, but let us all send out a clear message of our strong support for the future of the UK fish and chip shop sector.
I will turn to the annual bilateral negotiations with Norway and the Faroes, which are also in progress; it is a busy time of year, as Members probably realise. Those negotiations focus on quota exchanges and access to each other’s waters. I made a point earlier about the Secretary of State wanting to encourage co-design. When he was appointed in July, he made it clear that he wanted to improve the way DEFRA engages with stakeholders, and put more emphasis on co-delivering its policies and programmes in partnership with them. In that spirit, I have asked sectoral groups for this year’s UK-Norway fisheries negotiations to send proposed quota exchanges to the Government, and if deemed viable, they will be presented to Norway. I am determined that we try to do things differently and make the co-delivery model work.
I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes will be listening closely to this point. I know that UK Fisheries, and Members representing constituencies around Humberside, will be particularly interested in those negotiations to secure distant water fishing opportunities. I value the contribution that UK Fisheries makes to the UK fisheries and seafood sector. It is an important part of the UK fishing industry, but we need to remember that the total allowable catch for Arctic cod—one of the main stocks that the company has historically targeted in the Arctic—has fallen dramatically in recent years. It is down by about 60% since 2021, and the TAC is now at its lowest level since the early ’90s. Securing a large amount of Arctic cod for that sector is extremely challenging against the backdrop of a rapidly declining stock.
There was also a reference, quite rightly, to the fisheries management plan programme; the hon. Member for Epping Forest asked me to say a bit about that. We are grateful for the support of the fishing sector and wider stakeholders in helping shape those plans. We completely support them and think they are the right way forward. They have been developed collaboratively with the industries, and they will play a crucial role in supporting the long-term sustainability of businesses and delivering growth in coastal communities.
It is interesting that the plans are now internationally recognised as a gold standard in managing fisheries; I give credit to the previous Government for their work on that. They protect, and, where necessary, set out to maintain or restore fish stocks to sustainable levels. We are currently consulting on our next batch of fisheries management plans. I acknowledge that it is sometimes a challenge for people in the sector to keep up with all the work, but it is important and we are committed to working closely with people to co-design sustainable fisheries management policies, including implementing the short, medium and long-term actions set out in some of those plans.
We laid our first fisheries management plan-related statutory instrument on 16 October. That implements actions from our first fisheries management plans, many of which included suggestions from the industry. Beyond that, we are also progressing a wider set of other fisheries management reforms that are in line with our own domestic priorities as an independent coastal state. That touches on some of the points that Members have raised: the way we manage discards and the introduction of remote electronic monitoring.
On the powerful points made by the hon. Member for Epping Forest around cetacean catches, I absolutely share his concern. We are committed to continuing with remote electronic monitoring. It has started to be introduced. We think it has a real potential to transform how we get the better data that many Members have referred to. In the future it could inform the science, improve traceability and improve fisheries management. We are working to implement remote electronic monitoring in priority fisheries over the next five years. We will start with volunteers to design and test systems. We started work this summer with volunteers in the large pelagic trawl fishery on the Frank Bonefaas, the largest vessel in the fleet, primarily targeting mackerel, herring and blue whiting.
I very much hear the hon. Gentleman’s point about the concern that many of our constituents raise about the Faroe cetacean hunts. I assure him that Ministers continue to make that point strongly to our colleagues in the Faroes.
Dr Hudson
I am grateful that the Minister is acknowledging the importance of protecting marine mammals while harvesting from the seas and oceans. When he is around the table with his officials, will he address the other countries, such as Norway? Perhaps it will be his colleagues in the Department for International Trade when they are negotiating arrangements with Japan. On talking about the horrific nature of whaling continuing in the 21st century, can he assure everyone that this UK Government will stand firm and use their power in those rooms to put an end to whaling right across the world?
Daniel Zeichner
I think we can speak with one voice from this Parliament on those kinds of issues. I assure the hon. Gentleman that at events such as the G20 and the G7 that I have attended, we have raised those important questions.
I turn to the coastal state negotiations on quota shares.
Barry Gardiner
Before the Minister does that, could he look at what we might learn from the American fish management plans, which are gold standard and have had the clear management objectives that, I am afraid, many of ours lack?
Daniel Zeichner
I will certainly look at that. These are relatively early days in the fisheries management plans. A huge amount of work has had to be done quite quickly. We have established a good structure to look to the future—a much better way than in the past.
On the quota shares, it is because we are now an independent coastal state that we have the right to negotiate with coastal states in the north-east Atlantic on management measures for mackerel, blue whiting and Atlanto-Scandian herring. Those are important stocks for the UK that have been overfished in recent years because there are no sharing arrangements in place between the coastal states. We continue to push for comprehensive quota-sharing arrangements that are in the best interests of stock sustainability and of the UK catching and processing sectors. We see the three-way management arrangement with Norway and the Faroes that we signed in June this year as an important stepping stone towards securing a fully comprehensive deal on mackerel.
Almost all the speeches touched on the very challenging issue of marine spatial prioritisation. We know that considerable pressure is being put on the fishing sector by all the competing demands in our seas. And we know the seas are going to get busier over the coming decades. My hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Anna Gelderd) and the hon. Member for Gordon and Buchan (Harriet Cross) both raised those points. We absolutely need to factor in increasing spatial pressures and new activities such as the growth of new types of energy.
As a Government, we will very carefully consider the evidence marshalled by the cross-Government marine spatial prioritisation programme for English waters. Lots of work is ongoing on this. I am absolutely determined that we have a full and open debate and dialogue because it is such a complicated issue, and I am very grateful for the constructive engagement we are having with industry representatives.
I move on to labour shortages, which, again, were raised by the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland and others. We are, of course, aware of the concerns about labour shortages in the sector. Members spoke about the opportunities being there, if only we had the people to do the work—I thought that was very telling. My Department is working with industry to understand what we can do to alleviate those shortages, but they have to be understood in the context of our wider immigration policy objectives. I am sure Members will understand that there is an ongoing dialogue with the Home Office on that.
I pledge that we will work closely with industry to understand people’s labour needs—including, of course, what can be done to make the industry more attractive to the domestic labour market, which is an issue that people have worked hard on. The points made on training were really quite uplifting; it was very good to hear about the work being done in Grimsby, for example.
Dan Norris (North East Somerset and Hanham) (Lab)
What will the Government do to assist with training for the fishing fleets, not least in landlocked areas? In the west of England, we are very keen to promote training for things that are not necessarily associated only with our area. Are the Government having any discussions with metro mayors and others with large budgets for training and skills?
Daniel Zeichner
I will happily have a discussion with anyone who has a large budget at the moment, so yes—I will happily come and have a discussion with any mayors who are interested. We have also recently launched the UK seafood careers project, which works closely with industry and across Government and the devolved Administrations to look at how the sector can improve the recruitment and retention of UK workers. Please be assured: we are in constant dialogue and discussion with colleagues in the Home Office and in the education sector to see what we can do on this matter.
I will pick up another point made by the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland on enforcement and illegal fishing. We absolutely condemn any illegal fishing taking place anywhere, but particularly in English and UK waters—this is partly a devolved issue. We work closely as a Department with the Marine Maritime Organisation, the inshore fisheries and conservation authorities and other organisations. In fact, I was talking to the Marine Maritime Organisation about this matter only yesterday. We use a risk-based and intelligence-led marine enforcement model and carry out regular inspections in ports, onshore and at sea, which should ensure that appropriate arrangements are in place to enforce fisheries regulations and protect our waters. I was very interested to hear the right hon. Gentleman’s account of the approach taken in Ireland, and I will look closely at that.
Barry Gardiner
Does the Minister actually believe that the discard ban is being observed? If he has doubts about that, would he agree that ensuring there are onboard cameras and monitoring is the best way to put an end to that element of illegal fishing?
Daniel Zeichner
I very much hear what my hon. Friend says. I agree that the evidence rather suggests that we could do much better, which is why we are making that commitment to remote electronic monitoring.
I am coming close to a conclusion, Dr Huq. Many have talked about support for inshore fishers, and we are absolutely determined to do more. We are looking at the role of the inshore and under-10 metre fleet and at how best we can support them. We think a number of initiatives will benefit them; we are looking at provision of additional quota and new quota trials, which we believe will help the fleet in the long run. We are engaging with the five regional fisheries groups set up for inshore fishers to discuss concerns with policymakers and regulators, helping to identify problems, contribute to policy development and secure solutions. Certainly on my trips around the shores of this country, I have been struck by the concerns that people have and the points raised about some of the boat inspections. Obviously, that is a responsibility of the Department for Transport, but I continue to pursue that.
I have been struck also by the calls from key figures in the fishing industry, including Mike Cohen from the NFFO, for a proper fisheries strategy. I am very interested to talk to stakeholders in the industry in more detail about what that might look like—again, in the spirit of collaboration and co-design that we want to introduce.
I thank hon. Members. This has been a really informative and useful debate. Things have been raised that I will take away and raise with officials today. As I said at the beginning, I recognise just how tough this industry is because of the work involved and the safety issues, but I also recognise that it feels particularly tough as an industry at the moment. It is hard. But I genuinely think there are real opportunities ahead for the fishing sector, and this Government are absolutely committed to making the most of them to ensure that the industry can best contribute to our country’s food security and economic growth.