Housing Benefit and Supported Housing

Lord McCabe Excerpts

Wednesday 27th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House believes that the Government’s planned cuts to housing benefit support for vulnerable people in specialist housing, including the elderly and people who are homeless, disabled or fleeing domestic violence, risk leading to the widespread closure of this accommodation; notes the concern from charities, housing associations, councils and others across the country about the severe effect of these cuts; further notes that supported housing has already suffered as a result of Government spending cuts and policy decisions; notes that the planned changes will apply to all new tenancies from April 2016; notes the clear evidence that the Government’s proposal to mitigate these cuts with discretionary housing payments will not work; and calls on the Government to urgently exempt supported housing from these housing benefit cuts and to consult fully with supported housing providers to safeguard this essential accommodation.

We have called the debate to give voice to hundreds of thousands of elderly and vulnerable people whose homes have been put at risk by the Government. It is very encouraging to know that 19 Members from both sides of the House wish to express their concern and to make a contribution to this debate.

We have also called the debate to expose the decision to challenge; and to expose it to compassion and to care. We want to expose it, too, to common sense. In his November spending review, the Chancellor announced that

“housing benefit in the social sector will be capped at the relevant local housing allowance.”—[Official Report, 25 November 2015; Vol. 602, c. 1360.]

With one short, sweeping sentence, he put at risk almost all supported and sheltered housing for the frail elderly, the homeless, young adults leaving care, those suffering with dementia, people with mental illness or learning disabilities, veterans and women fleeing domestic violence. According to those who provide that type of housing, he condemns nearly half of all such housing schemes to closure. He has already caused the cancellation of building work on nearly 2,500 new homes for people in those groups. The shadow Work and Pensions Secretary—my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith)—and I therefore joined forces to use the motion and the debate to draw attention to how the Chancellor’s crude housing benefit cut could hit the lives of hundreds of thousands of people who totally depend on such specialist housing, many of whom are the most vulnerable people with nowhere else to turn.

The National Housing Federation says that 156,000 homes—at least that number of people will be affected—are set to close. A survey by Inside Housing found that one in four supported housing providers are set to close everything, while 19 out of 20 say that they will close some of their supported accommodation.

Since the spending review, as you might expect, Mr Speaker, I have been asking Ministers for evidence regarding the decision. I asked the Minister for Housing and Planning how many elderly people will be affected by the Chancellor’s cut, but he told me that the Government do not know. I asked how many women fleeing from domestic violence will be affected—don’t know; how many people with mental health problems—don’t know; how many young people leaving care—don’t know. The Government do not even know how many people in supported housing receive the housing benefit that they plan to cut.

The Minister did tell me, however, that the Government have commissioned an evidence review. It started in December 2014 and should have been completed by November 2015, but was not. Why not? In response to a parliamentary question, the Minister told me that the delay was due to

“the emerging complexity in the design and delivery of the review”

and “General Election Purdah restrictions”. The Minister therefore did not know what he was doing when he commissioned the review, and he must have been alone in the House and the country in not knowing that there was a general election in May last year. He says that the review will be ready later this year, so he does not even know when he will know what, at the moment, he does not know. What a shambles! What a serious dereliction of duty from a Government who should be making policy on the basis of evidence, especially when that policy affects the lives of so many very vulnerable people.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that one helpful thing that the Minister could do during the debate would be to make it clear that the cap applies to housing benefit, not to the service charge applied to so many in supported accommodation?

[John Healey]

I do not often disagree with my hon. Friend, but I do not agree that that is the solution. It is absolutely clear, as the motion says, that the Government need to act immediately and confirm that they will exempt in full supported housing from these housing benefit cuts. They then need to work with housing providers to ensure that such housing can be developed and secured for the future. I hope that my hon. Friend accepts that argument and will back us in the Lobby today.

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

I have listened and I am afraid that the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) exemplifies the brand “Same Old Tories”.

Let me make it clear from the start that I am a big fan of welfare reform. I believe that as we move to the second half of this decade, we need an active welfare system. However, the difficulty I have with measures such as the bedroom tax, the local housing allowance and caps on housing benefit is that I am not convinced that they are genuine welfare reforms. They ignore the supply problems in housing, rapacious landlords and the lack of specialist supportive accommodation. We treat all tenants as if their circumstances are the same. In fact, we simply passport cuts from the Department for Work and Pensions to the Department for Communities and Local Government without any regard to the consequences.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

This particular measure smacks of what in the 1960s we used to call “Rachmanism”. A lot of families will find themselves destitute on this route because they will not be able to pay those rents. It is a private landlord’s charter to make money.

[Steve McCabe]

Almost everyone now realises that we cannot have action on housing benefit without having action on rents. That is self-evident.

We are having this debate because those who are the targets of this change are not the workshy and the feckless. Too many of them are vulnerable people—the very people that many of us, including many Conservative Members, came into politics wanting to help, such as elderly people no longer fit to wholly look after themselves, veterans, youngsters leaving care and those fleeing domestic violence. The National Housing Federation claims the Chancellor’s changes could cost some people up to £60 a week, enough to force them to leave their accommodation and in some cases add to the growing number of casualties sleeping on our streets as a homelessness crisis sweeps our country like a plague.

The NHF also speculates that the changes may lead to the closure of thousands of homes. The kind of places we are talking about are retirement homes, active elderly establishments designed to improve the quality of life, supported accommodation and temporary accommodation. Is that really the kind of reform that Conservative Members want? There is already a 16,000 shortfall in meeting demand for supportive accommodation, and estimates say that is likely to double by the end of this Parliament.

[Simon Danczuk (Rochdale) (Ind)]

I recently had the privilege of officially opening the Hare Hill extra care scheme, which has predicted that if the cap goes ahead, residents there will have to pay an extra £50 a week. That is completely unsustainable.

[Steve McCabe]

We have heard from some Government Members that they have the same fears. A lot now rides on this review.

Without exemption, we are about to witness a housing disaster for those with a clear learning disability who live in supported accommodation. After years of talking about rights and independence, are we seriously going to banish them to institutions and substandard care homes? Seven out of 10 people with a learning disability would prefer to live by themselves or with friends rather than in a registered care home or with their parents. Are they not entitled to aspire to that? Are they not entitled to that degree of independence? Cannot this society, whatever cuts we want to make, afford to show just a bit of generosity to such people? How will the Government ever succeed in closing places like Winterbourne View and delivering on NHS England’s 2015 strategy “Building the Right Support” without a supported housing plan for those with learning disabilities?

What about young people leaving care? How are they going to make the first step on the ladder to independence? Vulnerable young people, especially care leavers, should be excluded from the under-35 shared accommodation rule. We should hear that announced today. Is the Minister now in a position to tell us when the housing benefit regulations for those aged between 18 and 21 will be published? How, too, have we got to a situation where the cap applies to any tenancy signed after 1 April—only 62 days away—and where housing associations are still not clear about the plans?

The Minister has offered no details of his review, and his party has form on promising things during debates on which it subsequently backtracks. In fact, everyone knows there is a dangerous air of hubris about Government Ministers these days. I believe they might find a degree of support if these measures were intended for working-age adults in general-needs housing only, instead of being such a sweeping threat to the vulnerable.

Allowing for the comment of my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) when I intervened on him earlier, I believe that the Minister would ease the situation a little if he could say today that service charges will not be included in the cap. It is obvious that sheltered accommodation, support of housing schemes and extra care measures command higher rents than service charges since they are more expensive to build and manage, yet they bring huge savings to the NHS and other services. Some housing associations, including Midland Heart, as we heard earlier, fear that these proposals could cost a huge shortfall of over £1 million, and in some cases discretionary housing payments will not deal with the problem.

Before this debate concludes, the Minister needs to tell us that he has plans to protect vulnerable people. He needs to give some clue as to what they are, and he needs to demonstrate that he has listened to the plight of those in supportive accommodation. We want to hear that he will definitely exclude them from these measures.

Welfare Benefit Changes

Lord McCabe Excerpts

Wednesday 14th October 2015 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, Mr Pritchard. It is interesting that those in the Chamber are from the Opposition Benches, although the Minister is present as well. I am pleased to see him and I look forward to his contribution. We are concerned about tax credits and such issues, but whatever we say is not meant against him—it is not a personal attack. I want to put that on the record.

I am in the Chamber because I am concerned about the impact of changes to welfare benefit—tax credits, specifically. Recently we have heard a lot about that in the news and the Leader of the Opposition asked about the issue during Prime Minister’s questions today. The news has been full of stories about tax credits so I want to touch on them; they are vital to people in my Northern Ireland constituency where, as of April 2015, 6,500 were in receipt of tax credits. Of that number, 4,500 were in work and 2,000 were not.

Such figures speak for themselves. The majority of people receiving tax credits are in hard-working families on low incomes, and they need some extra help to get by. What worries me, however, are—I will say this with respect to the Prime Minister’s reply today; he mentioned the increase in those who will be tax exempt—those in the £10,000 to £11,000 bracket. If tax credits are taken from them, they will feel the pain more than anyone.

Of the 4,500 in work and in receipt of tax credits in my constituency, 2,500 received both working tax credit and child tax credit, 1,300 received child tax credit alone and only 700 received working tax credit alone. As a clear result—this, too, was mentioned by the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) in her introduction—the Institute for Fiscal Studies estimated that the number of children living in poverty increased over the past three years from 2.3 million to 2.5 million: 200,000 more children in poverty, which is massively worrying. The IFS also estimates that the reductions in tax credits will see that figure rise to 2.8 million. Think about that number of children in poverty for one minute—up from 2.3 million to 2.8 million, 500,000 more in child poverty.

Only last month, I spoke about the importance of eradicating child poverty; it now seems like an ever-intensifying and uphill battle, in particular for those struggling to make ends meet. We must also bear in mind that two thirds of children living in poverty in the UK are from working families, which makes the situation much harder, especially given that the cuts could reduce working family incomes by an average of £1,400 per year—someone today mentioned that the figure could be £1,800. Certainly there will be a large reduction in the income of such families.

I have said it before and I need to say it again: the financial changes will make a huge difference to everyday folk on the street. The number of people coming into my office to get food bank vouchers has increased so much in the past year and indicates the trend. I have always felt that food banks contribute greatly to our society, bringing people together to contribute and to help those less able to look after themselves. By that very nature, food banks are positive—I want to put that on the record—but the fact that so many people are using them is another case entirely.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

I am told that in Birmingham the fourth largest category of people using food banks is those in work. Is it not a condemnation of Government policy that they have driven working people into the arms of charities?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that. Unfortunately, that is probably the norm in my constituency as well. We are not seeing anything different anywhere else in the rest of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

We cannot be completely in shock about the cuts, given that such benefits make up nearly 40% of welfare spending, just shy of £30 billion. To put that into perspective, that is a lot more than the £2.5 billion that the Government spend on jobseeker’s allowance. It has been estimated that the cuts will save the country £5.37 billion a year by 2019. Given the huge hole in the budget we need to try to fill, that will certainly be a start, but I must ask the Minister: are we punishing hard workers on low wages to do that? I fear that we are.

The Government and we as a nation pride ourselves on helping those who help themselves, but we must bear in mind the reality for many: although they work extremely hard, they simply do not earn enough to make ends meet. That is the sad reality and this vulnerable group in society will be hit extremely hard—unbearably hard, in many cases.

According to the Institute for Fiscal Studies, 3 million families will be £1,000 a year worse off following the new cuts. Those are the figures, so it is hard to equate that with saying, “Actually, things are going to be better,” when all those who know tell us that clearly they will not. It has been claimed that families will be £20 a week better off because of the rise in the minimum wage and the cut in income tax. However, the IFS says it is “arithmetically impossible” for families not to be hit by the cuts. The Prime Minister has already conceded that different families will be affected in different ways. Unfortunately, it seems that, for the majority, the figures will be working against them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Emily Thornberry]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Many communities, particularly in inner London, have already been affected by the first benefit cap. We have already seen young children ripped out of primary schools and moved out of London, as families try desperately to find somewhere they will be able to afford under the benefit cap.

Introducing a benefit cap makes a profound change to the way we pay benefits. The social security system used to be, and had always been, a safety net available to everyone, but introducing a benefit cap disconnects need from the amount that we are prepared to pay. Larger families, which are in most need, will be affected most. It is not their fault that they live in inner London or that they cannot live in public rented housing because there is not enough affordable public rented housing so they must live in the private sector. The Government have introduced an arbitrary, politically motivated cap that will have a devastating effect on communities.

[Steve McCabe]

Does my hon. Friend agree that, as well as the impact on working people on low wages and the poor, another surprising aspect of Government policy is its total disregard for those with long-term, progressive, degenerative conditions such as muscular dystrophy?

[Mark Pritchard (in the Chair)]

Order. Before the shadow Minister answers, let me say that there is no hard and fast rule, but it is usual to allow the Minister enough time for a full response of around 10 minutes, which will be in six minutes.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People (Justin Tomlinson)]

It is an absolute pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Pritchard. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris). I recognise that this is an incredibly important debate and that hon. Members have made constructive, thought-provoking speeches, often with personal stories, so I will not give a pre-written speech, but will try to address as many of the points as possible. I am the Minister for Disabled People and if the points raised relate to other Departments, I will do my best to cover them.

I pay tribute to the shadow Minister. It was helpful of her to encourage interventions, allowing everybody here to contribute, bar the hon. Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield). That was a real shame, because he is one of the Opposition’s most effective and measured Members of Parliament and has helped to shape Government policies in the past with well argued points. It is a shame that he did not have the opportunity to contribute.

I have a soft spot for Swansea East because, as the Minister for Disabled People, I celebrate, recognise and champion the fact that Swansea is the first city to be fully disability confident. It is a credit and an honour that the hon. Member for Swansea East represents such a wonderful town. One of my first media activities was to praise it, so she can be very proud of Swansea East. Leading on from that, she raised a point about barriers to work. I recognise that issue in my role as Minister for Disabled People. We have a commitment to halve the disability employment gap. In the last 12 months alone, 226,000 more disabled people have got into work, but halving the gap will require about another million, so there is still a huge way to go. We will be doing a huge amount of work through Disability Confident and our Access to Work scheme, through which we are now close to record numbers of people being helped.

The hon. Lady raised a point about sanctions. That has come up in a number of debates that I have spoken in, and the shadow Minister from the Scottish National party, the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford), raised the point as well. The use of sanctions has fallen by 30% in the last 12 months. The Oakley review did recognise that that was an important part of the mix; it should not be something in isolation. This is about the claimant and the work coach coming together with a contract and both sides working to give that individual the best opportunity. The use of sanctions is an important issue. I recognise some of the personal stories raised, and we shall continue to look at that, but it is an important part of the mix.

The hon. Member for Swansea East also highlighted Parkinson’s UK. The issue was raised in a previous debate. I have since met Parkinson’s UK, and we have made significant changes to some of the practices in the personal independence payment based on its expertise and advice. I am very grateful that it was able to contribute to that. I thought that the hon. Lady’s speech was important. She highlighted the need for the voice of the vulnerable, and certainly the opportunity was taken with a very powerful speech.

[Steve McCabe]

Will the Minister give way?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I am going to be tight on time. Let us see whether I can get through these pieces of paper first and then hon. Members can feel free to intervene.

The hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) raised the concern that the TaxPayers Alliance was now setting policy. Fear not: it has not taken over the leadership of our party, so do not panic.

The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who for the second day in a row has been detained elsewhere when I have responded to his points—hopefully he will read this—raised the point about food banks. A number of other hon. Members also talked about that. We have argued in the past that we have made them more accessible. One thing we do know is that the proportion of people reporting difficulties affecting food is down in the UK from 9.8% in 2007 to 8.1% in 2012. This is an incredibly important issue. I recognise that concerns have been raised about even people in work sometimes having had to access such facilities. We will continue to look at the issue, but we know that the number of those reporting difficulties with accessing food is falling—something that we would all welcome.

The hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford) talked about fluctuating health conditions. I stress that, in the proposed changes to ESA, the support group will not change—I just want to make that clear—but we have to recognise that people have fluctuating health conditions, particularly in terms of mental health.

DWP Data

Lord McCabe Excerpts

Tuesday 21st July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Priti Patel]

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman was disappointed by my response, but the data will be published. He should remember, when he criticises these schemes, that his Government set them up prior to 2010, and that it is we who are reforming the mess that we inherited.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

How many meetings and discussions have taken place between Ministers and officials over the past 12 months about the compilation and presentation of the data?

[Priti Patel]

I have already said that we will publish the data. [Interruption.] We were the first Government ever to publish such information, which we did back in 2012. This is work in progress: my officials are now working on the publication of the data.

Child Poverty

Lord McCabe Excerpts

Thursday 25th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Duncan Smith]

I should tell them that they should wait, as should the hon. Lady, to see what we bring forward. They may be surprised.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

Has the Secretary of State considered calls for the establishment of a child poverty prevention board or council, as happens elsewhere, so that we can focus all our energies on the things that really make a difference and avoid getting trapped in a sterile debate about how we measure, rather than how we reduce, poverty?

[Mr Duncan Smith]

That is an interesting question. I agree that it is important to get beyond this sterile debate. I want to bring to the House what I consider to be the right measures, and then I will be happy to discuss options. The right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Frank Field) has come up with an idea, and I am happy to discuss that as well.

Pensions and Benefits Uprating

Lord McCabe Excerpts

Thursday 4th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Steve Webb]

My hon. Friend is highly expert in these matters, and he will know that the Hammersmith jobcentre has become something of a tourist attraction in demonstrating the excellence of universal credit. What is so exciting is that in previous years we would talk about something hypothetical, whereas now we are talking about something real that thousands of people are already receiving. We are rolling it out more extensively as the months and years go by. It is a very profound change in our welfare state—one that we can all be proud of.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The hon. Gentleman did not appear to be in the Chamber at the start of the statement. Was he present then?

[Steve McCabe]

I think I was 25 seconds late, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

If the hon. Gentleman was not in the Chamber at the start of the statement, it is not seemly for him to seek to participate. I would not want him to behave in an unseemly manner—wittingly or unwittingly. I am in a sense saving the hon. Gentleman from himself in saying that he should not participate on this occasion. We will store him up and look forward to his words of wisdom subsequently.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord McCabe Excerpts

Monday 3rd November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Duncan Smith]

That is exactly what has happened. The minimum wage has risen faster under this Government than under the previous Government, and we are driving for greater acceptance among businesses.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

How many people does the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper), aspire to help on an annual basis through the Access to Work programme?

[Mr Harper]

I would very much like to help more. In the last financial year, 2013-14, we helped 35,000 individuals into Access to Work, which was 5,000 more than the previous year. That is a good start.

Relationships and Children’s Well-being

Lord McCabe Excerpts

Tuesday 21st October 2014 Westminster Hall

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

Good morning, Mr Hollobone. I begin by congratulating the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) on securing this debate. It is right that we should consider the impact of relationships on the well-being of our children, and we should take into account how Government policy can assist in this area.

I do not start with a wholly pessimistic view of relationships. It is true that marriage rates are declining, that less than 50% of British households are now headed by a married couple and that half of those marriages may end in divorce, but the divorce rate is also declining.

[Fiona Bruce]

I realise I am intervening early, but is not one reason for the declining divorce rate that young people are not getting married at all?

[Steve McCabe]

That may be one explanation, but we are seeing a downward trend in divorce—I simply make that point.

I was going on to say that I was struck by a bit of research done by the counselling organisation Relate, in 2012. It highlighted the fact that 93% of people said that they still regarded their relationship and family network as the most important thing in getting them through hard and difficult times. If we listen to the media or other people, it is at times tempting to think that we are living in a society where family relationships have completely broken down, but that is not quite our experience. Families—albeit sometimes new or reconstituted families—still form the backbone of our support system. In the era of same-sex marriage—which it is difficult for some people to acknowledge—we are not talking about a single model of marriage. We could be talking about cohabiting, heterosexual, homosexual and lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people. It varies in the world we now live in.

Relate also suggests that one of the things that puts the greatest pressure on families is the state of our economy. Relate says that couple relationships are eight times more likely to break down as a result of economic pressures. In the era of austerity Britain, we need to take that into account.

[Fiona Bruce]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree—particularly in the light of all that we have heard, even in this debate—that the lack of secure, stable and nurturing relationships in a child’s life is a fundamental driver and a cause of inequality and poverty, that tackling it is progressive and that it needs to be a priority, whatever party is in power, over very many years to come?

[Steve McCabe]

I certainly agree that, as the hon. Lady’s colleagues have also said, we should be putting a high priority on what is happening to our children, the quality of the relationships they are growing up with, and what we can do to assist and facilitate the best possible outcomes for children in those circumstances. However, we have to be conscious that what happens to couples is not divorced from economic policy either. We need to take that into account when considering some of our spending cuts. I was struck by the assertion by the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions that an increase in working credits could be related to a 160% rise in the divorce rate. I would like to know a lot more about how he arrived at those figures.

[Mr Burrowes]

I urge the hon. Gentleman to take a longer view of family breakdown and not just see it as confined to the last four years. He should recognise that before the great recession, family breakdown was a significant issue and was not just a result of Government. We are also talking about a cultural problem that has been around for many years and we have still not dealt with it properly.

[Steve McCabe]

I certainly accept that we would not want to try and explain family breakdown over a period of just four years. I will make the point later that there are a variety of issues; I am simply focusing on the fact that if we are considering the impact on how Government policy assists, we should not ignore the economic factors.

The hon. Member for Congleton referred to Dr Coleman and the OnePlusOne group, which makes the point that evidence shows that where couples enjoy a good employment situation, that in itself leads to a stronger relationship. That may be because they have fewer financial worries or a stronger sense of personal identity. I do not want to dwell on the issue unduly, but I do want to make the point that we have heard about family centres and the need to give Government support, and there are a couple of things from the past four years on which we should reflect. We should ask whether the decision to scale down Sure Start has necessarily been in the best interests of children.

[John Glen]

rose—

[Steve McCabe]

I thought that might tempt the hon. Gentleman to intervene.

[John Glen]

I would just like to point out that across the country there are 420 of the children’s contact centres to which I referred, and they have never, throughout their existence, received any support from the state, but are supported by volunteers up and down the country.

[Steve McCabe]

The hon. Gentleman is right: contact centres do not receive state funding. Sure Start centres did, but there are 628 fewer of them since the Government came to power, and I suggest that they have in the past been used as a source of support for a number of parents and families.

Likewise, there is an issue about the availability of child care. That is why, to be fair, both parties are putting quite a stress on child care availability at present. We disagree about the best way to provide it. Obviously, I am much more attached to Labour’s model of providing between 15 and 25 hours for three and four-year-olds. We have to recognise the cost of child care.

I noticed that the hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes), in what was a very thoughtful speech in a number of areas—I certainly agree with him on the question of kinship and grandparents—mentioned the married couple’s tax allowance. It is worth pointing out, if that is an instrument of policy to help families and children, that it is available only to one third of married couples. It applies to only 4 million of the 12.3 million married couples, and only about one third of them have children, so when it comes to targeting a policy to help children, it would be possible to do a bit better.

[Fiona Bruce]

I entirely agree. It would be possible to do better, and many Government Members hope that there will be an increase in the allowance over the years to come, but the importance of the allowance is that for the first time for many years, and because of this Government, it has sent a clear message that this country recognises and values the commitment that people make to each other through marriage. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that that commitment is worth applauding?

[Steve McCabe]

I simply make the point that if one third goes to pensioners who do not have children, it is a question of targeting. I can see what attracts the hon. Lady. I am not saying whether a married couple’s tax allowance is a good or bad idea; I am saying that if we are talking about targeting the policy, it is reasonable to say that it would be possible to do that a bit better. We could have a disagreement about that.

The hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate has mentioned that there are many factors besides economics. That is borne out in the briefing that the Relationships Alliance provided for this debate. It talks about a host of other factors that can affect people, including gender, age and marital status. I am not suggesting that there is one single thing. I think it would be interesting to spend some time looking at the factors involved. I noticed that the general focus of the remarks from the hon. Member for Congleton was on child well-being. I am also grateful to the Relationships Alliance for the things it had to say in that respect. It points out that children growing up with parents who have good-quality relationships or ones in which there is a lower level of conflict, even if the parents have separated, tend to enjoy better mental health and do better in a variety of other ways.

I thought that the point made by the hon. Member for South Antrim (Dr McCrea) was that we should be careful not to think that this area is something that Government or agents of the Government can always address. Parents have their own responsibilities; they have to decide what the impact will be if they separate. I am not suggesting that people who reach that conclusion should not be allowed to do so, but it does seem—if I can take the example cited at the outset—that very little thought can have gone into the operation if people are capable of separating before the end of the wedding reception. It strikes me that people perhaps need to adopt a bit more responsibility. When people decide that they must go their separate ways, they have a responsibility to consider the impact on their children and to shield them from the anger and bitterness that may be part of their separation but should not be part of their children’s lives. That is a very strong argument for encouraging mediation for couples contemplating divorce or separation.

The hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate talked about some of the mental health implications. It comes as no surprise to discover that children who are regularly exposed to intense and poorly resolved conflicts involving their separating parents often suffer more as a result of that than from the separation itself. The hon. Member for Congleton talked about the value of the return on relationship counselling. She talked about the return on every pound spent. There could be an argument for saying that there should also be counselling for children who are exposed to this situation. I do not know whether that is where the hon. Member for Salisbury (John Glen) was going with his comments about family centre models, but it seems to me that this is not just about the two individuals who are separating. I am happy to see money spent on providing relationship support for couples and help for couples who are going to separate, but just as much needs to be spent on the children.

Then, of course, we have to think about some of the broader things. We need better sex and relationships teaching for children in our schools and youth clubs. I know that the hon. Member for Congleton is a great fan of teaching children how to budget and manage their own affairs and how to start a business, but we also need to help them on issues of health, including sexual health, and sexual relationships. The recent Children’s Commissioner report on child sexual exploitation in teenage gangs is frightening, particularly the degree to which children who do not have sufficient support are in danger of thinking that what they see in porn movies is a reasonable model for how they should behave in relationships.

Of course, the issue of fathers is crucial. Like other hon. Members, I am kind of tired of the number of cases that I see at my advice centre of fathers who have really done nothing wrong. Their relationship has simply come to an end. Where there is no question of abuse or violence and no question that the father has done anything other than be part of a relationship that has come to an end, it seems to me that no court and no parent has a right to deprive that father—or that child—of that relationship. In that context, I am particularly impressed by the work of the charity Families Need Fathers, which does quite a lot to try to bring people together in these circumstances.

A key policy ask of the Relationships Alliance is that the Cabinet Office expand its What Works network to include a What Works centre for families and relationships. Will the Minister say whether he has any plans to take up that suggestion?

It is tempting to say a lot more, but I am conscious of what you said about the time, Mr Hollobone. I want to conclude by congratulating the hon. Member for Congleton on securing the debate. She is absolutely right to say that this is an area to which we must give the utmost consideration.

[Mr Burrowes]

Before the hon. Gentleman sits down, does he recognise that there has been a huge step change in one of the issues that affect well-being, namely the number of children growing up in households with at least one parent in work? The reality is that there has been a reduction in the number of workless households, and there are now some 200,000 more children growing up in households where at least one parent is in work. That must be a huge factor in their well-being. Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that step change and the way in which the Government have shifted from children the burden of growing up in workless households?

[Steve McCabe]

It is absolutely right that children should not have to grow up in workless households. Of course, the issue about working is the other stresses that it may place on parents, particularly single parents, so we also have to consider factors such as the value of work, the level of pay and child care.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord McCabe Excerpts

Monday 1st September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

T5. Despite the Minister’s earlier optimism, is it not clear that it has all gone badly wrong when the Government can organise to pay disability benefits to an on-the-run convicted killer such as David Richards, who as I understand it just walked out of jail, but cannot organise for some of the poorest disabled people in my constituency even to have their applications assessed within six months?

[Mr Harper]

I am not familiar with the case that the hon. Gentleman raises, although I know he has written to me to raise some PIP cases. I have not yet confirmed this to him, so I confirm now at the Dispatch Box that I will be happy to meet him to discuss those cases.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord McCabe Excerpts

Monday 24th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Duncan Smith]

Far be it for me to recommend to my hon. Friend what he should mention to his constituents, but he might well start with the fact that this benefits cap was opposed by Labour when we implemented it. His point about the level is simple. We have embedded the cap now, it has been rolled out and we have made sure that it has worked properly. We have seen a huge number of people move back to work; some 19,000 people who were going to be capped have gone to work and thus avoided the cap. So the cap is successful everywhere. However, we should remember that there are differences in income and in London a lower cap would be a rather severe penalty to put on people. Therefore, although I keep the cap under review, I have no plans at the moment to change its level.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

The hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Turner) clearly wants the cap to be reduced in his area and the Secretary of State makes an important point about London. Does that not suggest that there is some argument for taking into account regional variations in costs, so that the cap reflects what is happening locally?

[Mr Duncan Smith]

I am intrigued and pleased that the hon. Gentleman says that he supports the principle of the cap, which is more—in essence—than the Opposition have ever done in any vote. They voted against the cap—just in case they have forgotten. My point to him is a viable one. The trouble is where should regional calculations be made? Cities in regions have different levels of income from some of the countryside, so it starts to become quite a complicated process. Of course, I am willing to discuss this issue with the hon. Gentleman and anybody else who thinks that they have a plan, and I will certainly look at that, but right now the cap is successful, the majority of the public think it is a good idea and it was only his Front-Bench team who decided to vote against it.

Universal Credit

Lord McCabe Excerpts

Tuesday 10th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Duncan Smith]

The gains will be enormous. The roll-out has already begun. The question is not whether it will begin; it has already begun. We have already rolled out universal credit to pilot centres in the north-west. We are rolling out to a further six centres. That will be complete early in the new year, then we will bring in couples, couples with children, and eventually the tax credits. We will roll out completely in the north-west, then every region after that. It will be complete by 2016. This will bring huge benefits to all those who struggle under the existing system to make work pay. If they lose 6p in every pound, it is hardly worth while. That is the system that the Opposition left.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

If these plans for universal credit cannot be underpinned by a credible, working IT system by this time next year, will it be the Secretary of State’s fault or will he blame someone else?

[Mr Duncan Smith]

I take full responsibility for everything in the Department and there will progressively be an IT system that rolls out this programme. It will deliver, and I rather hope that by the time of the next election the Opposition come back and say sorry.