Food Prices and Food Poverty

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Monday 23rd January 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

I compliment my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George), who bowled the hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies) and hit the middle stump, showing the paucity of the motion. I offer advice to the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues—they simply cannot support the wording in the motion. It is a sign of desperation to pray in aid somebody who has not been in the House for 15 years when referring to Conservative or any other policy.

It is clear from this afternoon’s debate that Members on both sides of the House take seriously the challenges posed by food price inflation. It is also clear that down the years Governments of different complexions have seen varying degrees of price volatility. Of course I agree with hon. Members on both sides that wonderful work is done by charities and other organisations to support people on low incomes. That has always been the case. But please can we not pretend that in some parallel universe those charities were all forced into action on 6 May 2010 and that their existence is totally the result of the coalition Government? That is such a puerile and facile argument. Let us have a mature debate. I hope to add some thoughts in the few moments that I have.

Some Opposition Members have sought to ascribe the responsibility for high prices to the coalition. Clearly, that is undermined by the fact that food prices were rising at a faster rate under the previous Government. Likewise, we know that food price inflation was outstripping general inflation at one point last year, only for the situation to be reversed later in the year. The dynamics of where food prices stand at a particular point in time are of secondary importance to hard-pressed families who are balancing their budgets. Those families want to know what action is being taken to help, not just by Government, but by a range of organisations that have a distinguished track record in this regard.

We have heard of some excellent initiatives in the area of food provision and redistribution. We know about Healthy Start, which is a Government initiative. We have heard about FareShare, which provided 8.6 million meals in the last financial year. Many hon. Members have spoken about food banks, which are organisations set up by wonderful, community-minded people with real compassion. We applaud their activities. However, I say to Opposition Members, in particular the hon. Members for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) and for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy), that it is ridiculous to say that the rise in the need for food banks is attributable to this Government. This Government spend £122 million a day just to pay the interest on the debt that their Government left us. That is what we have to spend before we even pay off the debt.

[Luciana Berger]

Will the Minister give way?

[Richard Benyon]

No, I will not give way.

The motion is almost entirely consumed with statements about the introduction of the groceries code adjudicator. We agree on the importance of introducing an adjudicator. That is why we have published a draft Bill and are getting on with putting it in place. What is rather more puzzling is the position of the Opposition, who wasted 13 years without introducing the adjudicator, even though they knew that power was shifting from the suppliers to the retailers and had received evidence on that. Despite that, they criticise this Government for not having completed the process in 18 months.

The motion refers to “delays”. The only element of delay is in the motion itself, which demands that the adjudicator be introduced in the next Parliament. The hon. Member for Ogmore explained that that was a drafting error. In that case, he must tell Members not to support the motion. Any Member who supports it is showing a paucity of ambition, because it means that they want the adjudicator to be introduced early in the next Parliament. The hon. Gentleman will have to withdraw the motion. That is the only thing to do. The hon. Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) might want to wait until after the next general election to introduce the adjudicator, but the coalition has no such intention. We will carry on with the work in hand and bring it in during this Parliament.

Aside from the rather narrow focus on the adjudicator, there has been a series of interesting and useful contributions on the work that can be done to mitigate food prices. I pay great tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet (Laura Sandys) and wish her social enterprise well. It sounds like an interesting idea. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh), who made some interesting comments about the social impact of the threat of high food prices. I confirm for her that the groceries code adjudicator will consider anonymous submissions. She talked in particular about the fruit and vegetable sector. Those suppliers can approach the groceries code adjudicator anonymously.

The hon. Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith) asked when the groceries code adjudicator would be introduced. I hope that we have answered her question. The draft Bill is available. I cannot second guess what will be in the Queen’s Speech. I would be in trouble if I did.

My hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) spoke about local and home-grown food. I pay tribute to what is happening in her constituency. My hon. Friend the Member for St Ives was absolutely on target. He sought, as I do, cross-party consensus because on these issues this House sometimes produces more heat than light. If we look at the matter in detail, we see that there is a lot more that we agree on than separates us.

The Government are hugely supportive of food banks and other organisations that work to open up access to food. The coalition Government have been clear from the outset about the importance that they attach to third sector and civic activity. The success of many organisations in this area demonstrates why we are right to work hand in glove with them in delivering social solutions.

This debate has demonstrated the extent to which food price inflation is shaped by an intricate matrix of interrelated global circumstances. To stand here and pretend that the Government can step in and bring down food prices at a stroke would be disingenuous. The Government can put measures in place to ameliorate the worst effects of food price inflation, which we are doing through measures such as our continued support for Healthy Start and other schemes. One of the biggest determinants of food prices is global and domestic supply, and this Department has put farming and food production at the heart of its business plan. Whether it is in stripping away the needless bureaucracy that has swamped farmers, developing a strategy for balancing the needs of greater food production with protecting our environment, or helping to fund innovation and increased competitiveness, this Government are highly attuned to the need to increase high-quality food production domestically.

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is personally driving a great deal of work with other countries to help to meet the food supply challenges set out in the Foresight report. We are investing time and energy to ensure that we are working hand in glove with others on that important challenge. Understandably, the effects of that will take time to be felt.

The fact is that there is no silver bullet. The Opposition should know better than to pretend that the adjudicator will be the cure-all for hard-pressed families. What families need now is for the Government to deliver real help right now to get living costs down to a manageable level. To that end, the Opposition should support freezing the council tax, cutting fuel duty, cutting income tax for 25 million people, extending free child care, increasing the child tax credit, taking action on energy prices and many other measures. They were strangely silent on those measures throughout the debate. That is the programme that the coalition Government will continue to deliver in parallel with our work to increase food security and keep food prices down.

I believe that the House is united in its concern for those who struggle to manage their food bills. That is as it should be. However, this debate has laid bare the absence of any ideas from the Opposition. That is in marked contrast to the practical steps that the coalition is taking to help hard-pressed families up and down the country. On that basis, the motion should be rejected.

Question put,

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Thursday 19th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

5. What assessment she has made of the benefits to rural areas of rural tourism; and what support she is providing to rural communities to help them secure such benefits.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

The rural economy growth review concluded that tourism was a significant contributor to the rural economy and that it had the potential for further growth. The Government have therefore announced a £25 million initiative to promote rural tourism and support rural tourism businesses. That includes establishing a new £10 million fund for the rural development programme for England to provide funding for the development and improvement of tourism destinations, facilities and products.

[Andrew Stephenson]

I thank the Minister for that answer. I am sure he would agree that unnecessary and inappropriate regulations that impede the development of rural tourism should not be introduced. Will he therefore confirm that his Department no longer plans to classify waste from self-catering properties as commercial rather than domestic?

[Richard Benyon]

I agree that inappropriate regulations should not hinder rural tourism, including self-catering accommodation. However, we also have to face the fact that many councils in areas where there is a thriving tourism industry face huge bills in dealing with the waste that it produces. Given the principle that the producer pays, the Department is considering how to get the balance right. I reassure my hon. Friend that self-catering accommodation is one area that DEFRA is considering as an exception. We will weigh up the matter and make an announcement shortly.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

The coalition Government often pick fault with the Welsh Government. May I inform the Minister that the Wales coastal path, a continual path around the whole coast of Wales, is due to be officially launched in May? It will promote rural tourism and has already been flagged up by The New York Times as one of the top places to go in 2012. Why is England’s coastal path being left behind?

[Richard Benyon]

The hon. Gentleman will be very glad to know that I will be going down to Dorset in the next few days to launch the first section of the coastal path, which will be along the Olympic site. We are also working on, I believe, five other sites. The legislation is extremely complex. I would like it to be much more simple, and I am examining ways of making it simpler so that we can speed things up and ensure that the benefits for tourism, health and people’s ability to enjoy our wonderful coast will be apparent sooner rather than later.

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[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

8. What steps her Department has taken to reduce the volume of waste going to landfill.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

Following the waste review, DEFRA has already implemented the responsibility deal on direct mail; consultation on higher packaging recycling targets; funding to local authorities to deliver waste treatment infrastructure; and a new reward and recognition scheme on recycling. We will consult this year on introducing restriction on the landfilling of wood waste. The landfill tax is a key driver in diverting waste from landfill, and it will increase to £80 a tonne in 2014-15.

[Rehman Chishti]

More than 6.7 million tonnes of food waste are discarded each year. Environmental waste management providers anticipate that food waste is likely to be banned completely from landfill soon. Will the Minister clarify whether and when that ban is likely to take place?

[Richard Benyon]

The Government are determined that no food waste should go to landfill. Recent figures show a 13% reduction in annual UK household food waste since 2006. That is welcome, but we are undertaking a number of actions to divert food from landfill, including a voluntary agreement with the hospitality and food sector, which will be launched in the spring, and our anaerobic digestion loan, the first of which—an £800,000 loan to an AD plant in Wiltshire—has just gone ahead.

[Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)]

Is the Minister aware of the close correlation between high recycling rates, low landfill use and local authorities operating alternate weekly collections? Is he also aware that a recent survey by the Western Morning News showed that not a single local authority in the south-west is going to accept the cash bung from the Communities Secretary to reintroduce weekly non-recyclable collections? Will he tell the Communities Secretary that that money could be much better spent?

[Richard Benyon]

The right hon. Gentleman knows something that nobody else does, because no announcement has been made on which local authorities are accessing the scheme. I can assure him that it is a matter for local authorities; it is for them to discuss with their local electorate how they manage their waste policies, and it is for them to access the scheme, if they wish.

[Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)]

Does the Minister share my concern that Cumbria county council is planning to close household waste recycling centres in Ambleside and Grange-over-Sands, given that that will increase the amount of waste that goes to landfill?

[Richard Benyon]

I understand my hon. Friend’s concerns. I do not know the circumstances in Cumbria, but I hope that other methods are being put in train by the county council to ensure that the drive for increased recycling continues and to compensate.

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

10. What discussions she has had with the chair of the independent forestry panel on its interim report.

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[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

12. What support she is providing to rural communities to encourage enterprise and growth.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

DEFRA is working with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Department for Communities and Local Government to ensure that measures designed to support business and the economy have a proportionate and positive impact in rural areas. On 29 November last year, the Government announced a strong package of new measures designed to stimulate sustainable growth in the rural economy and to help rural businesses to reach their full potential.

[Neil Parish]

Devon and Somerset are making a bid for £15 million of rural growth network funds. Tourism, farming and business can all come together, along with infrastructure, but it needs to be co-ordinated. I support their bid and would like the Government to consider it sympathetically.

[Richard Benyon]

I am aware that the local enterprise partnership has made a strong bid, but it is one of many—we are excited by the response—and I cannot say at this stage whether I prefer one over another. Nevertheless, I wish them the best of luck in the transparent process of being accepted as one of the pilot schemes.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The Minister will be aware of the importance of the food industry to the rural economy. We heard previously that the Government are doing nothing on procurement to support the industry. What impact does he think that the cuts to the annual investment allowance will have on those businesses and their difficulties investing in new equipment to drive forward the food industry in this country?

[Richard Benyon]

Support for the food and drink industry was very much part of the process of the rural growth review, because the industry is a big employer in rural areas. Also, the tourism package that we are implementing will permit further input for local food initiatives. That comes alongside cross-Government plans to reduce regulation and improve the framework for businesses in the food sector. The industry has a real friend in this Government.

[Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con)]

T1. If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.

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[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

T3. Bearing in mind the years of chaos and the continued uncertainty about the future development of the Port of Southampton, can the Minister tell me what conversations have taken place with the ports Minister about how the Marine Management Organisation operates?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

I have had conversations with the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning), about this. The consultation ends on 22 February. I can assure my hon. Friend that there is a real drive among Ministers, and also in the MMO, to see an early resolution to the matter following the end of the consultation.

[Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)]

T5. Following the Government’s admission that the UK remains in breach of EU pollution legislation, can the Secretary of State tell campaigners such as the Breathe Clean Air Group in my constituency what steps she is taking to address concerns about the impact of biomass emissions on air quality?

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[Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab)]

Would the Minister responsible for fisheries be prepared to meet the Yorkshire wildlife trust and other wildlife trusts to discuss the pace at which the Government are moving towards designating marine conservation zones?

[Richard Benyon]

I have meetings with the Yorkshire wildlife trust—I am a great fan—and would be happy to meet it again. The chairman of the Yorkshire wildlife trust is Professor Lawton, who has talked to me about that and other matters. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we are moving ahead as fast as we can. We have a cumbersome process, which we inherited, but I can assure him that we will be able to designate in accordance with the statement I issued before Christmas.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

T6. I know that my hon. Friend shares my view that canals and waterways are a great asset to Britain. In my constituency, we have the Stoke Bruerne canal museum and the Grand Union canal, with all the tourism and leisure activities that that brings. Can he update the House on progress towards creating a charity out of British Waterways and tell us what he thinks that will do to improve British tourism?

[Richard Benyon]

The museums have been a crucial part of the consultation up to this point. The negotiations with the trustees are at a final stage. They are going well, and I hope to be able to make an announcement shortly. I believe that the new charity will have a huge impact on the use of canals and on facilities such as the museums.

[Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Secretary of State held a number of round-tables in October with civil society organisations and business about the run-up to the Rio+20 conference next year. Can she tell us what specific measures she is taking to encourage those organisations to get involved in preparing the UK position at that conference—and may I ask her, with respect, to give us some specific measures, not a reference to “ongoing engagement” or something of that nature?

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[Mr John Denham (Southampton, Itchen) (Lab)]

Further to the question from the hon. Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage), is the Minister aware that, in Westminster Hall yesterday, the shipping Minister described the five years of delays in Southampton’s port investment as a “cock-up” by the Marine Management Organisation and its predecessors? In the light of that, can he assure us that the MMO will have all the resources and expertise that it needs to deal with the application in a timely manner when the consultation ends?

[Richard Benyon]

I can give the right hon. Gentleman that assurance. This has been a complex process, because that action was brought by another company. We want to ensure that the matter is resolved as quickly as possible, and I can assure him and other Members that Ministers in both Departments will work with the MMO to find an early resolution to it.

[George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)]

T8. Does the Minister share my concern at the recent decision by the Food Standards Agency to turn down a licence application by Cranswick Country Foods to export to China? The matter was also raised last week at Prime Minister’s questions by my hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart). Will the Minister give us some advice on how to bring pressure to bear on the FSA?

Canal and River Trust (Transfer Order)

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2011 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

On 12 September 2011, I launched a supplementary consultation on the detail of the order to transfer the functions of British Waterways (BW) in England and Wales to a new waterways charity, the Canal & River Trust (CRT). The consultation closed on 24 October 2011.

Today, I am announcing the publication of the Government’s response to this consultation, which is available at http://www.defra.gov.uk/consult/closed/.

The consultation asked for views on the detail of certain aspects of the transfer order. The majority of responses to the consultation supported the overall direction of the Government’s proposals, and, subject to obtaining parliamentary approval in due course, the Government intend to proceed as follows:

We will remove the ministerial power to direct disposal of property under the Local Government, Planning and Land Act 1980, since it will not be needed by the CRT;

We will not extend the provisions in the Transport Acts 1962 and 1968 on employment to the CRT, on the basis that they have largely been replaced by more recent employment legislation;

We will amend sections 104 and 105 of the Transport Act 1968 to give the CRT an enhanced “statutory proposer” role in relation to ministerial orders on classification and maintenance of its waterways;

We will amend section 27 of the Transport Act 1962 to restrict the power of direction to circumstances in the interests of national defence;

We will not apply the House of Commons Disqualification Act 1975; Scottish Parliament (Disqualification) Order 2010; National Assembly for Wales (Disqualification) Order 2010 or the Northern Ireland Assembly Disqualification Act 1975 to the trustees of the CRT, because this would not be appropriate for trustees of a charitable body.

In addition, the Government intend, also subject to parliamentary approval, to apply the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to the CRT, in respect of all those statutory functions that the CRT will inherit from BW through the proposed transfer order. This limited application of the FOIA will have the effect of excluding from the provisions of the Act those broader charitable functions carried out by the CRT. It will also exclude bodies that merge with the CRT, unless the FOIA already applies or is made to apply to them at the point of merger.

Recognising that, as concerns administrative burdens, this will initially put CRT in a potentially disadvantageous position with regard to other statutory navigation authorities, the Government will, within two years, launch a procedure, under section 5 of the FOIA, to consider extending the provisions of the Act to other statutory navigation authorities, with the intention of creating a level playing field.

In these circumstances, the Environmental Information Regulations (EIRs) may be considered to apply to the CRT to the extent that the CRT is carrying out “functions of public administration”. Ultimately, this will be a question for the courts to decide. In the meantime, I have asked the CRT trustees to make a public commitment to adopt a transparency policy that closely follows the provisions of the EIRs; we are seeking to capture this commitment in the funding agreement being negotiated between DEFRA and the CRT trustees.

The Government’s response also includes, by agreement, the Scottish Government’s response to the Scottish issues raised in the consultation.

Fisheries Council

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

I wish to inform the House of the outcome of the discussions on fisheries at last week’s Agriculture and Fisheries Council, at which I represented the United Kingdom for the fisheries elements of the agenda, while Richard Lochhead, Michelle O’Neill and Alun Davies represented Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales respectively. I am aware that that many Members are very interested in the annual fisheries discussions, and I am grateful for the opportunity to inform the House of the outcome of this year’s negotiations.

The annual December round is always a difficult negotiation, but this year we went into it facing a greater challenge than we have confronted in recent years. Just under a month ago, the Commission published a regulation on the cod recovery plan that would have had dire consequences for significant elements of the UK fleet. We had not only to negotiate the annual total allowable catch and quota allocations, but successfully to negotiate a resolution of the threat of massive cuts in the time that our fishermen can spend at sea under the cod recovery plan. I am pleased to report that we managed to achieve both those outcomes.

We stated and won our case for our interpretation of article 13 of the cod recovery plan. That means that we can continue to offer incentives, in the form of additional days at sea, to fishermen who undertake additional conservation measures. Without that correction in interpretation, more than three quarters of the fleet would have had their fishing time cut drastically short, in some cases to just four days a fortnight. This important victory means fleets can go on fishing and catching their quota, while continuing the ground-breaking cod avoidance and discard reduction schemes that are being developed and implemented by fishermen all around our coast.

I know that the fact that—except in regard to the regulation that I mentioned a moment ago—we were unable to avoid reductions in days at sea has come as a blow to significant parts of the industry, and I share their disappointment. However, the Commission felt that significant legal obstacles, as well as resistance from a number of member states, prevented it from not cutting the number of days at sea. That said, the Commission has made it clear that the cod recovery plan is not meeting its objectives, and has agreed that the review that I secured last year must be accelerated as a matter of urgency. I hope that it will be possible to revise the rules without a full-blown co-decided revision of the text, but if that is needed, we will work hard with the Commission to create mitigating technical measures that will maximise the opportunities available to our fishermen.

Let me now turn to the TACs and quotas for next year, which constituted the main issue on the Council’s agenda. Since the Commission’s proposals were published in the autumn, we have consistently argued that we should follow the science, and should aim for the securing of sustainable fish stocks in our seas. That was particularly important in the context of tackling the so-called data-poor stocks. The Commission’s proposal that quotas should be reduced by up to 25% did not take into account all the information that the fishing industry and scientists had been collecting, or the implications of such cuts, both in economic terms for the fleet and for discards. Significant cuts in by-catch species, for instance, would have been likely to result in a substantial increase in discards. That is completely contrary to the policy of both the UK and the Commission, which is to eliminate discards.

We successfully negotiated amendments to the Commission’s original proposal for TACs and quotas—amendments that are worth an additional £36 million to the UK fleet. We secured the continuation of this year’s quota allocations for the majority of stocks, including North sea and west of Scotland megrim, whiting in western waters, and pollack and sole stocks along the west coast. I can give more details if Members require them, but a couple of noteworthy gains included a 200% TAC increase in west of Scotland haddock, a roll-over of Northern Ireland nephrops, and a 150% increase In south-western cod. The UK battled hard to reach an agreement that ensures the long-term sustainability of fish stocks while providing short-term catching opportunities for our fishing industry. The package we secured helps all sectors of the industry, large and small, and delivers benefits for all parts of the UK, north, south, east and west.

I would like to put on record my thanks for the co-operative manner in which colleagues from Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales contributed to the discussions. In the event, all Administrations were able to agree to the final deal. I would also like to stress that the overall package of measures was negotiated with close and constructive co-operation with the European Commission and with other member states, most notably France, Germany, Spain, Denmark and Ireland. This shows that the UK is playing a firm and constructive role in Europe, getting the best deal for the UK and its fishermen. This was a good result for the UK fleet and, equally importantly, a good result for the long-term sustainability of the stocks that our fleet fish.

[Fiona O'Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on at least managing to stay in the room with his European colleagues until 4 am, unlike the Prime Minister. I also congratulate him on exposing the two faces of the Scottish National party on Europe: on the one hand it promises to get out of the common fisheries policy, while on the other hand it says it wants to be a leading player in the EU.

A sustainable and profitable fishing industry is vital to the UK’s economic interests and to coastal communities around the UK. Some 12,000 fishermen are employed on UK boats, with just over 5,000 working in Scotland. The fishing industry is particularly important in Scotland. I grew up in the highlands of Scotland, and on a recent visit to the Western Isles I had a chance to speak to the fishermen in those fragile island communities. Fishing provides employment not only to the men I met in Tiree, Barra and Lewis, but to women as well, in the processing of the catch. May I ask the Minister whether he has visited the Western Isles, and if he has not may I urge him to talk to those men and women, so he can see for himself the impact the decisions he makes has on these fragile communities? Without a good deal from this Minister, the very existence of those communities is at risk.

The case for reforming the CFP is compelling. At present, almost half the fish caught in the EU are discarded, which is both an economic and an environmental waste. In July, this House unanimously adopted a motion urging the Government to support radical changes to the CFP. The Commission published its draft reform proposals on 13 July. What guarantees can the Minister give that the Government’s position on discards and CFP reform will not lose out in future negotiations? What progress is he making in advancing the case for the regional management of fisheries waters, a move that would be welcomed by the UK fishing industry?

I pay tribute to the Scottish fishing fleet, which has already reduced discards and introduced CCTV as part of catch quota to better manage fish stocks. What investment in scientific evidence is the Minister proposing to make as we move to long-term management of fishing stocks?

The verdict on this Minister is in: the fishing industry and conservation groups have described his deal as a disaster. In November he met representatives of the fishing industry and stakeholders to agree the UK’s red lines for the negotiations, including rejecting any calls to cut the number of days that fleets can spend at sea. On 5 December he issued a press statement saying his discussions with Commissioner Damanaki on the amount of time fishermen can spend at sea were very positive, yet his deal will mean a cut of between 15% and 25% in the number of days white-fish vessels can put out to sea in 2012 as part of the cod recovery plan. Fewer days at sea could lead to the unintended consequence of more damage to fish stocks and higher levels of discards, as fleets rush to catch all they can in their allotted time. Will the Minister explain why he abandoned his red line last week? Will he confirm that some vessels will see their period at sea cut to about four days in every fortnight? Will he tell us how many vessels will be affected and what the position of the Scottish fisheries Minister was on this issue? How difficult was it for the Minister to build alliances to support his red line? What went wrong? Bertie Armstrong, chief executive of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation, said:

“This is a bitter blow for our fishing fleet, which is now going to struggle to maintain economic viability under the impact of these…unwarranted cuts.”

What is the Minister’s message to fishing communities who feel betrayed by his broken promises?

I welcome the 200% increase in respect of west of Scotland haddock, the 150% increase in respect of south-west cod and the deal for fishing fleets in Northern Ireland. What assessment has he made of the ability of the fleet to use the extra quota, given that they will be at sea for fewer days? What impact does he believe the overall package will have on the number of fishing vessels that will be viable next year? What assessment has he made of the impact of the reduction in the number of days at sea on the financial viability of the Scottish fishing fleet and fleets elsewhere in the UK?

Next year, we have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reform the CFP. What reassurances can the Minister give the House that the Prime Minister’s stance on Europe will not isolate us in discussions and ultimately harm the British fishing industry?

[Richard Benyon]

I thank the hon. Lady for her warm welcome—I am attempting irony, which never quite works from this position. She really needs to understand that at the beginning of last week we were looking down the barrel of a gun at cuts that could have resulted from a penalty regulation introduced by the Commission. Its interpretation of the cod recovery plan could have resulted in between half and two thirds of the Scottish fleet being put out of business, the Northern Irish nephrops fleet being tied up for 11 months of next year and a great many other vessels and fleets around the country being put out of business. We argued that both at meetings last week and at the end of the week at the Council and we got things reversed. We did so by close working with Ministers from other devolved Governments, and I thank them for their efforts.

If the hon. Lady looked into the details, she would see that although vessels will have a reduced number of days at sea next year, what we secured, through our interpretation of the cod recovery plan, was the ability for them to buy back days at sea by the imposition of other methods of conservation. So she simply has not understood the difference between the control order that the Commission has now withdrawn and the remains of the cod recovery plan.

The hon. Lady asked me to visit the Western Isles. I have done so in the past but not in this role, and I will certainly do so in the future. My right hon. Friend the Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) has reminded me that I am due to visit Shetland soon, and I see such visits as an important part of my job as UK Minister. She rightly says that there is an important social element to this, because the men who risk their lives to get this healthy and much-needed food on to our plates also support people in ports.

The Government remain absolutely committed to reform of the common fisheries policy. I sat up until 4 o’clock on Saturday morning arguing about net sizes, the gauge of nets, the Orkney trawl and eliminator trawls—such details simply should not be the subject of a management system where the people imposing regulations on the fishery are sometimes located 1,000 miles away from the fishermen who are supposed to use them. We must have reform that is more decentralised and that gets away from the micro-management that has failed. I believe that last week exposed a system that is obsessed with process and therefore ignores outcomes. The cod recovery plan is not working because the Commission sticks so rigidly to the process and the rules and regulations.

What we have achieved is a realisation from the Commission that it must start to look at the process, because the outcomes we all want to achieve are being lost. The hon. Lady is right that Scotland’s fleet has done many good things. It has led the way in real-time closures and selective measures, but it has not done so exclusively. Wonderful work has been done around the United Kingdom and we want to see it being brought forward. That is why we have secured the science budget, which the hon. Lady asked me about, to ensure that the information we can give the Commission is accurate. We faced 25% cuts in total allowable catch for data-poor stocks, but we managed to argue against that, not out of a blind desire to let our fishermen go fishing but because there was scientific evidence for it.

When the hon. Lady talked about last week, she talked as though Britain was somehow isolated in Europe. Nothing could be further from the truth. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is today at the Environment Council and she will have the same experience as I had, which is of a close working relationship. I built alliances with the French and the Germans, and, as I said, with the Spanish, the Irish, the Danish and those from many other countries. I can assure the hon. Lady that Britain is far from being isolated in these matters.

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

I congratulate the Minister on his stamina and on delivering an agreement that was in the best interests of Britain. What does he understand centralisation to mean under the fishery reforms? I hope he will join me in wishing Denmark well as it takes over the presidency. Does he share my concern at the lack of science? He referred to the data-poor species, but we are proceeding with these annual rounds with a complete ignorance of the science about the stocks and climate change, warmer waters and the movement of species. Will he also give us an undertaking today that our inshore fishing fleet will not be disadvantaged in the future reform of the common fisheries policy?

[Richard Benyon]

My hon. Friend will know that I have been particularly keen in this job to see a better deal for the inshore fleet. I believe that the pilots we are about to start will show a new way of managing the inshore fleet and I can assure her that the scientific evidence we require for that will be vital. As we roll out the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009 and the marine conservation zones, we will see further investment in information about what is going on in our seas, on the seabed and so on, to ensure that we protect those areas as much as possible.

My hon. Friend asked about regionalisation and it is vital that we get this right. This is a once-in-a-decade opportunity, and, frankly, I do not believe that we will have another chance if we do not get it right this time. Decentralisation must mean an end to the top-down detailed decisions that I described earlier being taken so far from the fisheries. The problem we have in the United Kingdom is that our fisheries are complex. They are mixed fisheries with species swimming alongside each other, which means that if one species is targeted another is caught. Systems of management such as the cod recovery plan that operate from the sub-Arctic waters of the north down to the waters of Spain simply do not work because they are a one-size-fits-all solution and that simply does not work with fisheries.

[Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)]

Will the Minister guarantee that the result of the Council last week still places the European Union on target to achieve maximum sustainable yield by 2015? Does not the outcome of the Council make a powerful case for the introduction of long-term reforms to the CFP and of long-term catch quotas to deal with the problem of by-catch and discards? Is not that reform preferable to the abolition of the CFP, which is the policy of Scotland’s separatist party?

[Richard Benyon]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. We very much stick to our international agreed position of seeking to achieve maximum sustainable yield where possible by 2015 and good environmental status by 2020. He is right that long-term management plans are the way forward. I have just been rubbishing one long-term management plan, the cod recovery plan, which is a bad plan. What we want is good long-term management plans, and we certainly can achieve that. The problem with the common fisheries policy is not that it is common but that the policy is wrong. We will always need a degree of common working and all but a very few people in this country recognise that where there is an arbitrary line, such as the one that goes down the Irish sea or the median line through the channel, fish do cross those boundaries. We simply cannot work our management systems on just one side of that line; we must work on an ecosystems basis. That is why we need co-operation with other countries.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on resisting the more extreme ideas that came from the summit over the weekend. Does he accept, though, that one of the dangers is that as a result of the cuts in the number of days at sea, fishermen may not be able to catch their full quota? Will he undertake to keep the position under review and, if that proves to be the case, go back to Brussels in a year and argue for changes?

[Richard Benyon]

One of the most ridiculous outcomes of the penalty that was due to be imposed on British fishermen was that they would not have had enough days at sea to catch the quota they were allocated. We managed to stop that. We will constantly keep that under review and we are working hard to make sure that the problems that the fishing industry faces through the reductions in days will not continue in future years.

[Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP)]

I am grateful for advance sight of the statement and acknowledge the efforts of the Minister, Richard Lochhead, and other colleagues at the discussion, but does the Minister not acknowledge that this annual merry-go-round in Brussels is just not fit for purpose for the fishing industry or for the marine environment, so when will we see proper regional management come into force?

[Richard Benyon]

The hon. Gentleman is right. It is a circus. It is not a way to do business. We cannot make decisions in this way, working through the night and finding that the direction that we are seeking to take is thwarted by other countries working in a different way in an entirely different sea basin. It is not a good way of making any decision, so reform of the common fisheries policy, which we are discussing in the coming year with a view to a more regionalised system of management becoming possible in 2013, is a priority for this Government.

[Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con)]

I know that the Minister is aware that 10 days ago the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee met in Hastings and took evidence from fishermen. May I let him know that the local fishermen whom we spoke to are very concerned about transferable fishing concessions, and may I urge him in all his conversations to bear in mind their differences on the under-10-metre group?

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Benyon]

I am very aware of the fishermen’s concerns, which I share. Transferable fishing concessions may have application with certain vessels in certain fisheries, but by no means all. That is why we need localised management. Member states should be able to take decisions to apply such measures in a way that suits some, but not necessarily all, of their fleet.

[Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab)]

A large proportion of Hartlepool’s fishing fleet comprises boats under 10 metres. The Minister did not mention that in his statement. Specifically, what did his late-night work help to achieve for that category of the fleet?

[Richard Benyon]

I am delighted that we are able to report that there were considerable increases in stocks that will benefit fishing out of the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, and that we were able to invoke the Hague preference, which is of particular importance to fishermen in the north-east. We secured increases in whiting, which is of particular interest to his constituents, and I very much hope that we will be able to continue the scientific work that we are doing with fleets based in the north-east on a land-all system so that we can learn what a discard-free fishery means, following it right through the food chain.

[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

I congratulate the Minister on standing up for British fisheries, and compliment him on the deal he got for cod in the western approaches. On the cod recovery plan, he should not have to defend our plan when we are stopping discards. Should we not get the Commission to endorse more of our plans, rather than having to defend them?

[Richard Benyon]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There has been some really good work in this country on reducing the number of discards, which was acknowledged by the Commission, so it was rather perverse that there was the possibility of measures being introduced that could have brought an end to precisely that good work. In his area, for example, Project 50% saw a more than 50% reduction in the number of discards in the beam trawler fleet. That would not have been possible under the proposed reduction in days that we were facing but luckily managed to reverse.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

First, I congratulate the Minister on the hard work done in Brussels along with the other Ministers, including our own Northern Ireland Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development and Fisheries Minister. The Minister fought hard to ensure that prawn quotas were retained although the scientific evidence showed that they should have increased. The herring quota was also decreased although, according to the scientific evidence, it should have been increased. Will the Minister comment on the state of play at the sentinel fishery? We met some of the fishermen the week before he went away and we were told it was being investigated. I believe that the figures for that scheme will show the abundance of cod in the Irish sea.

[Richard Benyon]

I was particularly worried about the impact on the Northern Irish fleet. The initial proposal would have meant that many of them would have gone out of business. They could not survive if they were tied up for 11 months of the year and I am glad we managed to reverse that. I am glad that we also managed to reverse the proposed 19% cut in Irish sea nephrops, which was totally unjustified, and we were able to prove the science behind it. I was very interested by the proposal that the hon. Gentleman brought to me about a sentinel fishery in the Irish sea. We are looking into it and I will be in touch with him as soon as I have some information.

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for both his stamina and determination in securing an increase in many stocks that my fishermen rely on, particularly cod in area 7B to K. Will he explore the possibility of top-slicing the additional quota that he secured, creating a reserve for the under-10-metre fleet, thus avoiding the disastrous situation we had under the last Government when, in 2008, the under-10-metre fleet in Looe was tied up because the quota was exhausted by the end of February?

[Richard Benyon]

I am delighted that fishermen have been telling me at great length, not just in the south-west, but certainly in the south-west, that they are seeing more cod now than they have seen for a great many years. That has been backed up by the science and we were able to secure an increase of 150%. That was a good result. Haddock is also up 25% and whiting up 15%. The package is worth £1.3 million in total to the fleet in the south-west. The managing director of one producer organisation told me in the small hours of Saturday morning that at the start of last week he was looking at a £250,000 cut to his members, which would have been devastating, but by the end of it we had secured a £250,000 increase. I will certainly look at my hon. Friend’s proposal for the under-10-metre fleet as well.

[John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)]

At the beginning of the statement the Minister mentioned that the agreement was supported by France, Germany and Spain, among others. I bet they supported it; they saw him coming. If the number of days at sea is reduced, the number of boats going out and the number of people working in the industry will be reduced. The reality is that we will end up with a smaller industry, and that will not be reversed until the Minister obtains some sort of reversal during the review of the doctrine of common resource. That is the root of all the problems in the common fisheries policy, which is one of the most loony ideas ever to fly out of Brussels, and that is saying something. Until he does something about the doctrine of common resource, we will not reverse the situation.

[Richard Benyon]

I think we are coming from the same direction, but I am not sure we are reaching the same conclusion. The hon. Gentleman is just wrong to say that our relationship with other countries was somehow to their advantage and not to ours. There was a collective view across major fishing countries in Europe that the cod recovery plan was not working and the Commission had to understand why. We were absolutely on the same page with major fishing countries that fish in areas such as the North sea and around our coast. Not only did we achieve a good result last week, but in terms of reform of the common fisheries policy, we will continue to work on those relationships, whoever is in government in those countries, to make sure that we have the result that we need for our fishermen.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

I, too, praise the Minister for his steadfast and robust approach. One of my constituents shrugged his shoulders this morning and told me, “It could have been much worse”, which I can assure the Minister is high praise, coming from them. Many fishermen have virtually eliminated discards through new processes, but that is not reflected in the methodology used in the negotiations. What hope is there for future improvement in that respect?

[Richard Benyon]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. It is really important that we build on good work, such as the fisheries science partnerships, which involve scientists going out on fishing vessels and fishermen meeting scientists to discuss how to approach this, as information on discards can then be dealt with in an informed way. That helps me in our negotiations with the Commission, so I commend the work being done by fishermen in his constituency on reducing discards and ask him to keep me informed.

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

I know from personal experience that the post of UK Fisheries Minster is a lonely one and I congratulate my hon. Friend on what he has managed to achieve. This ludicrous system whereby decisions are taken year on year on the basis of sleep deprivation simply has to stop. Will he give the House a written statement in the new year on how he sees the reform of the common fisheries policy moving forward? This year two maritime nations—Denmark and Cyprus—will hold the presidency of the Council of the European Union, so surely there is an opportunity to move to regional fisheries management during their year.

[Richard Benyon]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his help and advice as I have progressed in this job. It is useful to have Members of the House who know what it is like to go through this charade—I use the word carefully—of a process, which requires decisions to be made after two or three days of heavy negotiations that run right through the night. We must have meaningful reform and it must have regionalisation at its heart. We need to be able to define in the new year exactly what we expect when working with partners in the sea basins around the UK. I pledge to keep the House informed of our progress.

[Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Given the considerable disquiet among British fishermen about the deal, particularly the breaching of the Minister’s own red lines, is the deal not further proof of the catastrophic loss of influence in Europe since the Government parties came to power?

[Richard Benyon]

No, the hon. Gentleman probably was not listening when I said that we have been working extremely closely with our European partners. I think that he would really benefit from seeing just how well we worked and how we joined forces to defeat a proposal that, had it been implemented, would have been utterly devastating for our fishing industry.

[Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on getting a 150% increase in the amount of cod being fished off the south-west. What position did the Hungarians and Austrians take in the matter, given that they have absolutely no coastline? Will he also confirm that there will be no impact on recreational fishermen?

[Richard Benyon]

As my hon. Friend knows, I am a great supporter of recreational angling and want to see many more people fishing in our seas. One of the ways of achieving that is by having more fish in the sea, so that feeds into what we are doing. I can assure him that all my conversations—I think—were with nations that have a maritime interest and that we work well with them.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

We keep hearing about all the benefits of our membership of the European Union. Does my hon. Friend think that UK fishermen agree that the common fisheries policy benefits the UK fishing industry?

[Richard Benyon]

I do not think that anyone loves the precise elements of the common fisheries policy, but fishermen tell me that they understand that proper management of our seas requires a common approach that recognises ecosystems, because fish do not recognise lines on maps. We need policies that reflect the ecology of fish, which sometimes means having to work with other countries.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

The tragedy of all this is that Britain should never have given away her fisheries in the first place. Our European neighbours have overfished Britain’s territorial waters and we should be repatriating powers over our fisheries industry. Given that that is not Government policy, I congratulate my hon. Friend on doing his best in difficult circumstances, but will he tell the House whether Britain’s market share of fishing will go up or down as a result of this deal?

[Richard Benyon]

If I may correct my hon. Friend, it is precisely our position to see more regional management of our fisheries, which means that we will be responsible for more of the decisions that are taken at a local level. That seems much more sensible than the current system. I believe that we have created a considerable economic benefit for a number of fishermen around our coast and that we have certainly seen off some very damaging economic decisions that could have come out of it. I hope that, in moving forward to a properly reformed common fisheries policy, I will have his support in trying to get more localised management for our fisheries.

Flood Risk Management

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2011 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

I am today publishing a report following the three flood insurance working groups established in 2010. The working groups were made up of representatives from Government, the insurance industry and community groups. Building on their conclusions, the Economic Secretary to the Treasury and I have agreed to sponsor further work to analyse the options for managing the future financial risks of flooding.

Government and the insurance industry remain committed to making sure flood insurance remains widely available. Together we are working towards an announcement in the spring of a new shared understanding which sets out more clearly what customers can expect from their insurer, and from Government.

The existing statement of principles currently enables insurers to price according to risk. Risk-based pricing has not been commonly applied in the past because of a range of factors including commercial decisions by individual insurers and historic limitations in the availability of flood risk information. However, the market is evolving with the development of more sophisticated tools for assessing a customer’s flood risk with the reality being a continuing trend towards more risk-based pricing.

Taking steps to reduce flood risk, whether by Government, local communities or individuals, minimises damage occurring in the first place and thereby plays a vital role in bearing down on insurance costs. In accordance with this Government’s determination to deliver solutions which offer taxpayers greatest value for money and which will endure over the long-term, the priority will continue to be to invest in reducing the risk of people and properties being flooded in the first place, rather than re-directing funds into subsidising insurance premiums, which would do nothing to protect against the wider, non-monetary, health and well-being impacts of flooding.

Hence we propose to:

Continue to target Government funding towards those most at risk and living in the most deprived areas through flood and coastal resilience partnership funding launched in May of this year. There is already progress: 36% of households protected by new flood alleviation schemes proposed for 2012-13 are at significant risk and in the most deprived communities, compared with 6% during the previous spending period. Overall, the Government plan to invest £2.17 billion on flood and coastal erosion risk management in England over the current spending review period.

Continue to improve the quality and availability of flood risk maps published by the Environment Agency including surface water flooding maps, so that individuals and communities can be more aware of levels of local flood risk and better informed about what action could be taken at an appropriate level to provide better protection.

Continue to extend the flood warnings service so that by 2015 at least two thirds of households and businesses in the highest risk areas are signed up to receive the floodline warnings direct service.

Explore with the insurance industry how to create an environment where those at risk are incentivised and supported to proactively reduce flood risk with the consequent effect being seen in their long-term insurance costs.

Over the next few months we will continue to work with insurance companies to consider what additional measures might help safeguard the affordability of flood insurance for households. As part of this ongoing work we will be considering the feasibility, value for money and deliverability of targeting funds to help those most in need, building on the analysis undertaken by the working groups established after last year’s flood summit. This may include models where communities might work together to secure affordable insurance.

These options will be considered over the winter months in order to make further announcements in the spring. However, in the interests of keeping the Members and their constituents abreast of these ongoing discussions I wanted to give this interim update.

Copies of the report of the flood insurance working groups are available on the DEFRA website.

Water White Paper

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Thursday 8th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will make a statement on the water White Paper.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

Making sure that we have enough water for everyone will be one of the major challenges this country will have to deal with in the years ahead. Today’s publication of “Water for Life” recognises that water is essential for economic growth and that we must protect the environment for future generations.

The White Paper is a blueprint for action. It outlines plans to modernise the rules that govern how we take water from our rivers; it explains how we will improve the condition of our rivers by encouraging local organisations to improve water quality and ensure we are extracting water from our environment in the least harmful way; it announces plans to reform the water industry and deregulate water markets to drive economic growth; it enables business and public sector customers to negotiate better services from suppliers and to cut their costs; it removes barriers that have discouraged new entrants from competing in the water market; it asks water companies to consider where water trading and interconnecting pipelines could help to ensure secure water supplies at a price customers can afford; it enables water companies to introduce new social tariffs for people struggling to pay their bills and seeks to tackle bad debt that ordinary householders have to bear the cost of to the tune of £15 a year; and it tackles the historic unfairness of water infrastructure in the south-west.

The White Paper is the Government taking leadership on an issue of critical importance to our economy and our environment. It is a bold vision for the management and harnessing of an increasingly scarce but vital resource and I welcome this opportunity to discuss it with hon. Members today.

[Mary Creagh]

I start by thanking the Secretary of State for her note explaining why the market-sensitive parts of the White Paper were briefed to the stock exchange this morning and expressing my disappointment that she is not giving us her views on this.

We have just had the driest 12 months since records began 100 years ago. That has affected water quality, restricted boating activity and seen wildfires destroy valuable habitats. Last month, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs granted Anglian Water a drought permit, a highly unusual move for the autumn, when reservoirs are normally filling up. Last Thursday, the Environment Agency’s drought prospect report revealed that south-east England is at high risk of drought next year with some restrictions possible on customer supply. Ensuring a safe, affordable and continuous supply of water while protecting the environment and managing unpredictable rainfall is a major challenge. The White Paper is of intense interest to the public, who are worried about rising bills as real incomes fall and household budgets are squeezed. It builds on Labour’s Cave and Walker reviews, which we commissioned, and takes an evolutionary approach.

We welcome the proposals to introduce greater competition for business and public sector customers and to establish a cross-border market between England and Scotland for water and sewerage services. We also welcome the fact that water efficiency measures will be part of the green deal, as proposed by my hon. Friends the Members for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies) and for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) during the passage of the Energy Act 2011. However, the White Paper is silent on how the water sector will reduce its carbon footprint and encourage energy from waste, and the proposals on the removal of historical abstraction licences, which cause such damage to our environment, are given an end date of 2025, which is far too late.

Last week’s autumn statement announced £40 million a year to help 700,000 households in the south-west pay their water bills. Will the Minister tell the House when the £2 billion capital investment in the south-west that South West Water invested be paid off and how long the £40 million subsidy will continue for those customers? How will he ensure that those proposals for South West Water meet EU state aid rules? We know that bills in the south-west are, on average, £157 higher than those across the rest of the country, reflecting the botched Tory privatisation of 1989, which left 3% of the population paying for 30% of the country’s coastline and the £2 billion investment in new sewerage services. Does that money set a precedent for other areas of the country to receive help to offset capital investment costs? The cost of the Thames tideway tunnel is now estimated to be over £4 billion, so can Thames Water customers look forward to receiving similar help with their bills?

More than 2,250,000 pensioners, single adults and families spend more than 5% of their disposable income on water bills. The Government’s proposals to help people with rising bills elsewhere in England and Wales are weak and unclear. How does the Minister propose to force water companies to ensure that those eligible people receive help with their bills when that will come straight off the companie’s bottom line? What sanctions will there be for water companies that consistently fail to help people with their bills? Has he decided whether to fund Water Sure through public expenditure, as mentioned in the consultation in June, and, if so, what will the cost be per annum? Has he rejected the idea of match funding for company social tariffs in the south-west and modifying sewerage charges for non-household sectors?

Today’s water White Paper is more than six months late, and it is a curate’s egg—good in parts. We will work with the Government to ensure a fair deal for water customers, whatever part of the country they live in.

[Richard Benyon]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for the welcome she has given to large elements of the White Paper. She is right that it builds on work that has been done over many years. I am grateful to Professor Cave, Anna Walker and to David Gray for his report on Ofwat, which informed the White Paper, as have the contributions of many stakeholders, other organisations and Members of the House.

The hon. Lady made a slightly predictable and lame remark about why I am dealing with the issue today, rather than the Secretary of State. We have a style of management in this Government that encourages people to take control of the issues. It is a highly motivational style that I recommend to her, because it encourages greater understanding of the issues. The Secretary of State and I have spent many hours preparing the White Paper and have immersed ourselves in the detail.

The hon. Lady is wrong to suggest that there is not enough in the White Paper on reform of the abstraction system. The abstraction rules go back to the early 1960s and do not take into account changes to our climate and weather patterns, and it is important that we have new and clear rules that take us into the future. We will consult in 2013 on our long-term approach to a transitional system of changing abstraction that will work and be sustainable in every sense.

There are urgent measures that we need to take forward, because in constituencies similar to mine, much-loved and much-valued rivers, which are vital to our eco-systems and to the general health of our environment and to the way in which we value it, are running dry. The White Paper sets out clearly how the Environment Agency will work to bring forward speedily measures that change how we abstract water, so that we return water as quickly as possible to river systems, and our catchment approach, which we announced in March, will soon start to benefit water quality and pollution. I urge the hon. Lady to support that measure, which involves many local people, is effective and tackles the urgent situation that we face, brought about by the current low rainfall and the impending drought, unless we have a proper, wet winter.

The hon. Lady mentioned South West Water. We believe that the announcement in the Budget, on which the Chancellor gave more detail in the autumn statement, sets out a way of righting a long-term wrong. It is to the credit of this Government that they have tackled it, because Members from all parts of the House have raised the issue for a great many years, and we are dealing with it. I am not going to pretend to her or to the House that the announcement will create the equivalence that people in the south-west might feel they deserve, but it is a considerable contribution and is separate from what we are doing to assist those on low incomes throughout the country to pay their bills.

We are consulting on the guidelines that we will produce for companies’ social tariffs, and I recommend to the hon. Lady the details in the White Paper on the excellent work that several water companies are doing to make it easier for people to pay their bills, and on the work that the companies are doing with organisations such as Citizens Advice and others.

The hon. Lady asks how long the payment announced by the Chancellor will continue. In an almost unique announcement, I can tell the House that it will continue beyond the end of the spending review and, in fact, until at least the end of the next spending review. Of course, it will be for Ministers then to decide what happens after that.

The hon. Lady talks about other high-cost items and their impact on people’s bills, and refers to the Thames tideway tunnel, which, as she rightly recognises, imposes a high cost on Thames Water customers. The cost of the project is of great concern to Ministers and to the Government, and we are looking at it very closely. We remain supportive of the scheme, however, and page 55 of the White Paper shows the Government’s clear support for it. The Thames is one of the most important rivers running through an iconic city, and we need to ensure that it is clean. We believe that this scheme offers the best solution.

The hon. Lady asks me about the guidance on tariffs. Water is a monopoly industry, and the monopoly industries are highly regulated by three regulators, so Ofwat will continue to set prices and to be an independent regulator. We will give clear guidance on where we think it should be going, but the relationship will remain the same and its responsibility will be to keep bills affordable.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

Birmingham has a greater length of canals than Venice, and the country as a whole has an extensive canal network, so what assessment has my hon. Friend made of its potential to link those parts of the country with above-average rainfall with those parts that need more water?

[Richard Benyon]

I have looked very carefully at that issue, and as my hon. Friend will know we are in the process of a very exciting change in how we manage our waterways, in transferring British Waterways to the charitable sector. There remains the opportunity to use our canals to move water around, but the sad truth is that water is an extremely heavy substance, and it is very carbon-intensive to move it very far. The economic assessments that I have seen state that to move water much more than 30 miles is uneconomic, but through a range of different measures we start to see that, with interconnectors, we can incentivise water companies to use a variety of means to move water from neighbouring areas to theirs. Then, we can start moving a trickle of water from areas of high rainfall to areas of low rainfall.

[Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)]

I welcome the fact that the Government are implementing the part of Anna Walker’s review that will bring relief at last to consumers in the south-west, although I note, of course, that our bills will still be more than £100 more than in any other part of the United Kingdom. Will the Minister say a little more about infrastructure? The thing that puzzles many members of the public is that we live in a wet, temperate climate with lots of rainfall, and yet we constantly talk about having droughts. What more can the Government do to increase the capacity of reservoirs and other infrastructure to avoid that happening?

[Richard Benyon]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his words. Of course, he is right. We want to encourage water companies to continue to invest. A key element of the White Paper is to send a very clear message to the investor community that we value the nearly £100 billion of investment in our infrastructure over the past 22 years and want to see more of it in future. There have been two intentions in that direction: first, not to spook investors by giving the wrong indications about how we want to proceed on competition; and secondly, to say to the investor community, “This is a place of safety and security where you can invest for the long term.” We will still require greater infrastructure and elements of construction that will make our economy and our environment more resilient to the kinds of weather changes that are happening.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Like the right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw), I welcome the Government’s approach to South West Water customers and to the social tariff proposal. However, does my hon. Friend acknowledge that the ability across companies to respond to the advantage that is given to them as regards social tariffs will vary from company area to company area, and will he keep that under review? After all, this is a White Paper, not a Bill.

[Richard Benyon]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. We hope to legislate in the near future on a number of these matters, not least that of South West Water, which does require primary legislation. The guidance that we are consulting on will be made available when the results of the consultation are known in January—in the new year, to be precise. We will very much take his concerns into account. We want company social tariff schemes that really work and get to those who are in water poverty.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

I welcome the publication of the White Paper, although I am disappointed that in some respects it is not more ambitious, particularly as some of the measures that we need could be very simply achieved. To give one specific example, are there plans to include a mandatory requirement to have rainwater harvesting in all new homes, and if not, why not, given that it is a very simple measure that could nevertheless have a significant impact?

[Richard Benyon]

There are great incentives to be given in the construction of new homes. In terms of the wider debate on development, sustainable development will put the onus on developers to show that the construction of these dwellings will have as minimal an impact as possible on the environment. This will be a real driver towards using water-conserving measures such as greywater schemes, sustainable drainage systems and a whole host of others that we will be bringing forward as this process goes further.

[Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)]

One reason for over-abstraction from rivers such as the source of the Thames and the Malmesbury, the Avon and the Kennet in my constituency is that the law prevents planners from considering water and sewerage availability when agreeing unwanted out-of-town developments and large-scale developments such as those around Swindon. Will the Minister have discussions with his colleagues at the Department for Communities and Local Government to consider whether planning law could be changed to avoid over-abstraction from rivers such as mine?

[Richard Benyon]

That is a matter of great concern to me. The River Kennet flows through my constituency, and when I stood in it in Marlborough the other day, it was as dry as the carpet on which I am standing. It is a very real problem, and the projections for population growth across this country in the years to come indicate that we have to address it now. We are setting out in the White Paper a vision that will precisely encompass the concerns so accurately voiced by my hon. Friend. We need to ensure that there is an adequate water supply so that our rivers and taps can continue to flow, and we are trying to link up those two very important requirements.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister will be aware that it took David Walliams’s sponsored swim down the Thames to remind our constituents how filthy some of our rivers are. Tens of thousands of tonnes of sewage are still pumped into the Thames. Protection for the quality of our rivers comes from the Environment Agency, but everyone is saying that the Environment Agency is being run down and that it does not have the capacity to be vigilant and ensure that our environment is safe.

[Richard Benyon]

I have the highest respect for the Environment Agency. The people who work there are true professionals and are absolutely committed. I have had no indication from them that they are unable to deal with water quality issues, as described by the hon. Gentleman. I agree with him that the main river flowing through our capital city is in a disgraceful state. Not only should it be our ambition to see it cleaner, but we have to comply with international treaties. It behoves us to take the tough decision to restore its quality. However, that will not happen with the exclusion of other rivers that are also suffering quality problems.

[Stephen Phillips (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

Lincolnshire, where my constituency sits, is one of the driest counties in the country, somewhat counter-intuitively. Water is therefore of great importance to my constituents and in particular to those who farm. Will the Minister assure the House that there are no proposals in the White Paper that will adversely affect the farming industry?

[Richard Benyon]

One of the core principles that motivates us in DEFRA is food security. We are deeply indebted to the farming community for the innovation that it has shown and for its ability to cope with changing weather patterns, while continuing to produce quality food. During the drought last year, we engaged with abstractors, many of them from the farming community. We found that the Government have many tools at hand to deal with the problems now. There was some very innovative work by the Environment Agency, the National Farmers Union and other organisations on that. The White Paper addresses the urgent and available methods, but also considers a new, changeable abstraction scheme for the long term that encourages farmers to continue to produce food.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

I think that there will be concern at the failure to separate the retail arm of competition for non-domestic customers. May I press the Minister to set out the timetable for the introduction of a zero-threshold market for all non-domestic customers?

[Richard Benyon]

That is a clear priority. We hope to have a water Bill to take those methods forward. We looked closely at the recommendations of the Cave report and those from a number of other quarters about retail separation. We are making substantial changes on competition, but we were not persuaded of the need for wholesale reorganisation and separation. We want to ensure that the water sector remains open to increased investment. We hope to make changes with a water Bill in the next Session of Parliament.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

I welcome the commitment in the White Paper to tackle water quality on a water catchment area basis. I notice that the Teme, Wye and Severn catchment areas straddle the England-Wales border. I ask the Minister to work closely with Ministers in the Welsh Assembly and other agencies to ensure that water quality is improved as quickly as possible.

[Richard Benyon]

I have visited that catchment area and know that there are serious issues to be tackled. We work closely not only with ministerial colleagues in Wales, but with the Environment Agency and the new Countryside Council for Wales. I assure my hon. Friend that cross-border issues will be dealt with to reflect the needs of catchments. We will work with all concerned to ensure that that is successful.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

If the Government are abiding by their promised timetable, 8 December is part of early summer. Is it not true that this White Paper is not only late, but lame and limited? It appears to disregard altogether the immense potential of water resources to generate clean, sustainable energy.

[Richard Benyon]

I am saddened that the hon. Gentleman is not as welcoming of the White Paper as others have been. We originally planned to introduce it in July and I recognise that it is a few months late. However, I am sure that he would have preferred for us to take a bit longer and get it right rather than rush it. We produced a natural environment White Paper in June, which informed the issues that we are taking forward in this White Paper. We have consulted closely with people across the water sector and in the wider DEFRA family. I think that it was better to take a few months longer and get it right.

[Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con)]

I welcome the White Paper. Will the Minister confirm that the reason it was released to the City first was that it contains market-sensitive information? There is genuine anxiety in Stratford-on-Avon and throughout the country about over-abstraction. What can he say to my constituents to allay their fears?

[Richard Benyon]

My hon. Friend is right: we released only the parts of the White Paper that were market sensitive to the stock exchange, after informing Mr Speaker. I gather that there is precedent for such a move and I am grateful for the general support for it. My hon. Friend’s constituents, like mine, are right to be concerned about the impact that over-abstraction is having on their environment. That is why we are making a reasoned change to the abstraction system in the long term and tackling urgently the problems of over-abstraction in certain areas where rivers are dangerously low or even running dry.

[Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister has confirmed his commitment to the Thames tideway tunnel investment of £4 billion. Will he also confirm the other major investment in the Thames Water area at Deephams in my constituency? How will the Government continue to protect the consumer from the increased bills that will be occasioned by that major investment?

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Benyon]

Deephams is vital to the infrastructure that we need. The hon. Gentleman is right to suggest that it will have an impact on people’s bills. It is the job of the Government, working with Thames Water and Ofwat, to ensure that that cost is as low as possible. There is a large contingency in the Thames tideway project, which every experience of large-scale environmental projects shows is necessary. I hope that we can work with Thames Water to ensure that these infrastructure projects are produced at as reasonable a cost as possible and with as little impact on charge payers as we can achieve.

[George Eustice (Camborne and Redruth) (Con)]

I, too, welcome the measures outlined in the White Paper to deal with the affordability of water bills in the south-west. As the Minister said, this issue has been discussed for more than a decade and nothing has been done. It is good finally to see action. In respect of the concerns about whether this sets a precedent for the Thames tideway project, does he agree that a major difference is that the population of the Thames Water area is far greater than that of the South West Water area, so the overall impact of the infrastructure improvements on bills will be far lower?

[Richard Benyon]

It is no comfort to my constituents or the constituents of other hon. Members in the Thames Water area to say that their bills are likely to go up. However, when they do go up, our projection is that they will be at about the national average. My hon. Friend’s constituents will continue to pay bills of about £100 over the national average. We have made a considerable investment to try to right the wrong that they have lived with for a long time. It is never easy, but I assure him that I will continue to work with Ofwat and others. I am grateful for his contribution and that of other hon. Members from the south-west in this difficult process. I hope that it is appreciated that we are getting somewhere.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

With all this talk of dryness, I feel as though the Rhondda is living in a different world—perhaps not for the first time—because the issue that affects us most is still flooding, in particular where there is dry ground and water comes straight down off the mountains. One thing that has helped enormously is that Dwr Cymru, Welsh Water, has, with its unique structure, been able to work more co-operatively with the Welsh Assembly and others. Will the Minister ensure that nothing compromises that unique structure?

[Richard Benyon]

I commend that company. I was with its chairman just the other day discussing this issue. We have to learn how water companies cope with large quantities of water in high rainfall areas, but also how we can work with them to achieve greater connectivity with other water companies. If we see water flowing from area to area, it will benefit the hon. Gentleman’s constituents through the bills that they pay and encourage water to go to the stressed areas of the south-east.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

The microclimate in Suffolk Coastal is quite similar to that of north Africa, and farmers are used to using irrigation in producing crops. There are also big abstractors of both river and ground water. I welcome large parts of the White Paper, but I am a little worried by recommendations 3.39 and 3.43, which I am concerned will put farmers in my constituency out of food production.

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Benyon]

I am very happy to discuss the details of that with my hon. Friend and with farmers from her constituency, because that outcome is not our intention. We want farmers’ businesses to be secure for the future. If the Government had not taken responsibility for this issue by taking forward a clear vision of an abstraction regime that is fit for the future—it has been a problem for a long time that there has not been such a coalescing of ideas—farmers in her constituency would have been in a much worse condition.

[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

The Minister has just mentioned Welsh Water. Will he remember that it also serves customers on the English side of the border, for instance in Chester? In areas where there are disputes between DEFRA and the Welsh Assembly Government—for example, on the Consumer Council for Water—will he ensure that customers on the English side of the border are not forgotten?

[Richard Benyon]

I will of course ensure that they are not forgotten. I am looking forward to going up to the north-west to see the new interconnector, which will provide water from places such as north Wales to an area that was water-stressed last year. We have to recognise that drought is not exclusive to the south and east but is now a feature in other parts of the country, including my hon. Friend’s constituency.

Water Bills (South West)

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Wednesday 30th November 2011 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

First, may I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson) on introducing this debate in an extremely timely manner. Perhaps if it was this time yesterday he would have been extolling the Government to take yet more action, and I am very glad that we were able to deliver. It has been a feature of Parliamentary life that when two or more south-west MPs are gathered together, the issue of water charges is raised, and as the Minister responsible, I am well aware of its importance to a huge number of his and other hon. Friends’ constituents in various constituencies across the south-west.

This is a really important issue for those people, and I recognise the important point that my hon. Friend made at the end: welcome as the measure is, he and other Members from all parts of the House will continue to push on this issue until they feel that greater parity has been achieved in water charges. As he knows, the average water and sewerage bill for household customers across England and Wales is £356, but the average for South West Water, before we implement these changes, is £517. He and other hon. Members will have dealt with cases of constituents, many of them in extremely straitened circumstances, whose bills are considerably higher. I recognise that this is an ongoing discussion and one that I am keen to continue to have with hon. Members across the south-west.

I am delighted that the Government were able to announce details of support for customers of South West Water in the autumn statement yesterday. Every South West Water household bill, as my hon. Friend says, will be reduced by £50 a year. That follows the commitment made in the Budget earlier this year to use public expenditure to support households facing high bills. The Government had to act. In her review, Anna Walker identified the fact that households in the south-west of England faced the highest water bills in the country, because at the time of privatisation, South West Water had the lowest levels of infrastructure required to protect drinking water quality and safeguard the wonderful environment that my hon. Friend so accurately described. This was the biggest challenge facing any water company at privatisation and in the 20 years that have elapsed since then, South West Water has invested around £2 billion to raise sewerage standards to the same level as elsewhere.

Local people have benefited though improved water quality, reduced leakage, cleaner beaches and bathing water, but—and it is a very big but—the cost has been met by those customers. The Government recognise that circumstances faced by customers of South West Water are exceptional and unfair. We are now addressing this historic issue and will contribute to the cost of reducing bills. We looked very closely at Anna Walker’s recommendations, and that was a feature of the debate that my hon. Friend secured some months ago in this Chamber. We decided that each household customer should receive an annual discount on their water bill. I am very grateful to all the south-west MPs who have doggedly raised this issue and demanded action. It is in the hon. Gentleman’s character to be big enough to recognise the input from Members of all parties and, of course, to Linda Gilroy, who raised this question in her time in the House.

This is a fairness measure: a payment to all South West Water household customers to redress an historic unfairness. This debate comes just ahead of the water White Paper, of which a key theme is affordability. South-west MPs have often raised with me and my predecessors individual cases of people in their constituencies who really struggle to afford their bills. Thankfully, even before yesterday’s announcement, South West Water had taken action to address the region’s particular set of circumstances and to tackle affordability problems. The company has a free debt helpline that helps customers to set up payment plans, it offers water metering and water conservation advice, and it recognises that many people are able to reduce their bills and to use water more efficiently by having a water meter.

I echo the words of my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall about Chris Loughlin and his team. I have worked closely with them, and they have an absolute and genuine determination to address the issues. South West Water works with local citizens advice bureaux and other experts, and it has introduced a range of initiatives to help those who find it difficult to pay their bills. It has established an advice gateway with south-west citizens advice bureaux and it trains and sponsors CAB debt advisers. Advice agencies such as the CAB can refer struggling customers to the company’s water care scheme and can obtain benefit entitlement checks, tariff checks, water efficiency advice and free efficiency devices.

South West Water also has a scheme for customers who are in debt, and I am very impressed by that work. I have been into households with advisers and seen the impact that they can have on the bills paid by people on low incomes just by installing a very few items or by changing those people’s behaviour, including what they do and how they use water throughout the day. That can have an enormous effect on household bills, but I recognise that, in this context, it might still be only a relatively small proportion of bills. In doing that, South West Water and companies with similar schemes have recognised the benefits to customers, and also to the company. I applaud such schemes, which are designed by water companies to tackle local problems in their region. Many companies in other Members’ constituencies have similar excellent schemes.

Water affordability problems are not confined to the south-west. Across England and Wales, 23% of households spend more than 3% of their disposable income on water and sewerage charges. Some 2.5 million households are spending more than 5% of their disposable income on water. That is a very important issue and one that the Government take very seriously. That is why water affordability will be a key theme in the upcoming water White Paper. We will commit ourselves to a long-term and a short-term set of actions to ensure that water bills are affordable.

WaterSure, to which my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall referred, will continue. It will be supported by social tariffs, which will enable water companies to design locally appropriate schemes. We believe WaterSure is really important, but we recognise that its criteria mean that it deals only with families who have a relatively large number of children—three or more—or with elderly or infirm people who require more water because of their circumstances. I have been persuaded by the many moving cases that have been put to me by colleagues about the circumstances of particular constituents.

I recognise the importance of WaterSure in addressing the concerns of those individuals, but I also recognise that about 50,000 people are currently claiming. WaterSure can therefore only ever help a small group of people in water need. That is why company social tariffs, on which we are consulting, are so important. When the consultation ends in January, we will quickly announce the guidelines for those enormously important tariffs.

[Dan Rogerson]

The Minister is being very helpful. On the groups who are covered by WaterSure, the south-west not only has many people on low incomes, but it has an ageing demographic because of the huge inward migration of older people and the outward migration of younger people. If WaterSure could be established with a national coverage, it would ensure that when people spend their active working life in another water region of the country and then end up in the south-west—I hope, to live a happy and long life in retirement—we had a fairer distribution of the cost. Otherwise, that will all have to be funded within the region.

[Richard Benyon]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. However, the other important point to note is that the fact that the south-west has a much higher percentage of households on meters is good for those particular people, because they very often use much less water than larger families or households in multiple occupancy. That offers a really effective way not only of paying proportionally lower bills, but of managing problems—for example, they will know much sooner, if they are on a meter, if there is a leak. I applaud the work done by the company. We want to see such work developed not only in the south-west but elsewhere, and we will encourage that.

[Andrew George]

The Minister is speaking about the crux of what will no doubt appear in the water White Paper next year. The impact of the flat £50 per household reduction is welcome. It will apply irrespective of whether households are wealthy second home owners on water meters who therefore have relatively low bills or the large number of local families in straitened circumstances. It is those families for whom a nationally equitable solution is required because, despite the £50 reduction, they will still face considerable bills.

[Richard Benyon]

First, I can say to my hon. Friend that he will not have to wait until next year for the water White Paper, which is much more imminent. I cannot tell him precisely when, but it will be very soon. Secondly, the White Paper will examine the whole range of affordability issues and solutions. I hope that the package we introduce will make a real difference.

My hon. Friend and all Members who represent the south-west will recognise that that will require legislation, which is why I cannot promise that it will be delivered before April 2013. I wish it could, but we are convinced that primary legislation is required, although we hope to deliver it in time for the start of the financial year in April 2013.

Company social tariffs will allow water companies everywhere to reduce the bills of those who would otherwise be unable to afford them in full. In conjunction with the excellent existing support schemes and advice, companies will be able to design the right tariffs for their region. We want all companies to introduce social tariffs as part of a package of advice and support for customers about affordability and efficiency. I hope that hon. Members, advice organisations and environmental organisations will work with water companies to design the best schemes for their regions.

Before I conclude, I just want to express again my appreciation to hon. Members across the south-west for their efforts in bringing forward this matter, and my determination to continue this discussion in the future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Thursday 24th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con)]

4. What recent discussions she has had with her EU counterparts on reform of the common fisheries policy.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

As the UK fisheries Minister, I continue to have discussions about reform of the common fisheries policy with a wide range of people and organisations. They include the EU Commission, Members of the UK and European Parliaments and ministerial colleagues of other member states, as well as representatives of our fishing and related industries. I will continue to press our case for reform as negotiations develop in the Council and European Parliament.

[Amber Rudd]

I thank the Minister for that answer. His and the Government’s commitment to sustainable fisheries and sustainable fishing communities is well known and much appreciated. Is he aware of the real anxiety, shock and growing opposition from the smaller fisherman community to the transferable fishing concessions being proposed, given that this has been so damaging to smaller communities?

[Richard Benyon]

The fish in our seas are a national resource and what we are talking about, in the reform of this failed policy, is getting a fairer system for the allocation of that resource. Transferable fishing concessions in other countries are sometimes a lever towards better conservation, but I reassure my hon. Friend and fishermen in her constituency that we are not happy with the proposal that has been made thus far. We think it requires much more detail and there are certain elements of it to which we are opposed. We will keep her and the House informed at every stage.

[Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)]

Will the Minister accept that, however the common fisheries policy is reformed, the biggest threat to fish stocks in our waters and internationally is unsustainable commercial fishing? Given that, what is he doing to ensure that all public procurement of fish in this country, including by this place, is from sustainable sources?

[Richard Benyon]

I am pleased to report, if the right hon. Gentleman has not heard, that the Government are announcing Government buying standards at the highest level, commensurate with the Olympic standard, which is considered to be the relevant level of sustainability. Across Government, we will procure fish only from sustainable sources.

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

Will my ministerial Friend agree that one of the most exciting aspects of the proposed reforms is regional control? Will he strain every sinew to ensure that we end the exclusive competence of the EU in this regard and allow regional fisheries to control their own waters?

[Richard Benyon]

I entirely support the words of the Chairman of the Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. We have an opportunity to achieve something that we have failed to do for decades—a system that reflects local needs. It is absurd to have a common fisheries policy that from Brussels sets net sizes for fishing fleets around our coast. We have to have some form of regionalisation. We like the direction that the reforms are taking and we wish to see more detail in the coming weeks.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Is it not remarkable that in the space of a quarter of an hour the Government, who are supposed to be blazing a trail for bringing back things from the common market and the European Union, have already eliminated the repatriation of the common agricultural policy and, according to what the Minister just said, fisheries is not on the agenda, either? Are we not being led up the garden path?

[Richard Benyon]

It is always nice to hear from the hon. Gentleman with his cheery disposition so early in the morning. He probably did not hear my reply to the previous question, in which I said that we are talking about the repatriation of controls whereby countries around a sea basin will have greater management of our fisheries. The wider question about whether we should have a common fisheries policy at all probably is not for this forum but is, perhaps, for a higher pay grade. He is welcome to take part in the frequent debates that we have in the House on this matter.

[Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab)]

5. What her policy is on the use of electronic training aids for cats.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

11. What steps she is taking to curb the hunting of endangered species.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

No native endangered species can be legally hunted in England. Although we cannot intervene directly in legal hunts of endangered species allowed by foreign Governments, the UK pushes for international co-operation through the convention on international trade in endangered species—CITES—in order to ensure that any trade in endangered species is sustainable. The UK also strongly supports the International Whaling Commission’s moratorium on commercial whaling.

[Kerry McCarthy]

Will the Minister therefore join me in condemning the trophy hunting of endangered and vulnerable species such as that carried out by the millionaire banker and Tory donor, Sir David Scholey, who was pictured in The Sun recently, posing by the bloody corpse of a lion under the headline “Who’s the bigger beast?”? Does the Minister condemn that?

[Richard Benyon]

We recently had a debate in Westminster Hall about lion trophies and importation to the UK. There are certain areas of Africa where lion populations give real cause for concern, and we are working through colleagues in CITES to ensure that the concerns in that debate and throughout the House are raised. Yes, I will condemn any hunting of an endangered species, for whatever reason, if it puts that species at risk, and this Government have responsibility for—

[Mr Speaker]

We are ever so grateful to the Minister.

[Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)]

Does the Minister not agree that one of the best ways to prevent the illegal hunting of endangered species overseas is ever tougher controls on the illegal import of bush meat to the UK? What is he going to do to take that forward?

[Richard Benyon]

We are very concerned about bush meat and importation, and that is why we have protected funding for the work taking place at ports and airports, and for the expertise that we have, on the matter. There is also a very good case, which we have made in Britain, for being much stronger on the export or import of rhino horn which, as we know, is putting that species at very severe risk of extinction.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

T1. If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

T3. When the Government’s long overdue water White Paper finally comes out, will the Secretary of State confirm that small businesses, not fat cat water utilities, will be at the centre of deregulation?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

The water White Paper will be published in the next few weeks. It will set out a way forward for the water industry that will encourage new entrants.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

T9. Currently we pay our farmers not to grow crops, but at the same time the world population is growing, and half the world is in need of food. What will my right hon. Friend do to end that scandal, so that our farmers can get back to what they do best: growing crops for this country and for the rest of the world?

--- Later in debate ---

[John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)]

T7. The Minister has consistently said that the review of the common fisheries policy is a golden opportunity, and he has said the same again today. Will he therefore make a promise to the House that the British fishing fleet will be larger at the next election than it was at the beginning of this Parliament?

[Richard Benyon]

That would depend on there being more fish to catch. What we seek to achieve through a proper reform is conservation measures that we can manage much closer to home, which can lead to a recovery in fish stocks and therefore an increased opportunity for our fishing fleet. I want to see a reform of common fisheries policy that means that the sons and grandsons of fishermen can see a future, because they cannot at the moment.

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

Mandatory greening under new CAP reform proposals would remove a fifth of land on higher level stewardship farms from food production. What representations has the Secretary of State made to the EU Agriculture Commissioner about the damaging impact that that would have on food security in this country?

[Graeme Morrice (Livingston) (Lab)]

T8. Business groups have warned that the Government’s decision to delay the establishment of marine conservation zones will impede investment in marine industries, including renewable energy and sustainable fishery projects. Does the Secretary of State agree?

[Richard Benyon]

We are progressing the implementation of an ecologically coherent network of marine conservation zones, which have to be sustainable in every sense. That means that they have to be able to withstand any challenge that may be put to them, legal or otherwise, so we need to get more evidence for some of them. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that this Government remain absolutely determined to take this forward, but we need to get it right. If that means we have to take a month or two longer—or six months longer, to be perfectly accurate—that would be a better way than getting it wrong.

[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

This week has seen the launch of the ecosystems market taskforce. What are the practical implications of that?

Fisheries

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

I commend the hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Mr Doran) and his colleagues on the all-party fisheries group for bringing this issue to the House, and the Backbench Business Committee for supporting it. This debate leads on well from our debate in May, which my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith) brought to the House, and if Members support the motion they will give me and the Government a mandate to continue our work to introduce some common-sense reform to a failed policy, and to take forward proposals that will greatly advantage the industry and our marine environment.

I should like to take this opportunity, however, to recall the six fishermen who have lost their lives this year in the line of their work at sea and in the harbour. We must remember the courage and sacrifice of individual fishermen, who put their lives in danger to bring food to our tables. Today is especially poignant, given our memory of Neil Murray, the husband of my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray), to whom many Members have referred, and I know that the House will wish to join me in sending sincere condolences to all those families and friends who have suffered losses.

I shall try to cover as many points as I possibly can. I shall not be able to cover them all, but at this vital time, as we move toward the December round and, of course, through the wider CFP reform negotiations, I remain absolutely willing to meet the all-party group of the hon. Member for Aberdeen North and any other groups of hon. Members.

The hon. Gentleman talked about the manifest failing of the common fisheries policy and found a ready audience in the House and, certainly, with me. He spoke about discards, as did several hon. Members, and it is important that our reforms on discards—I think that these were his words—reflect the reality of fishing. It is absolutely vital that we do so on a stock-by-stock, sea-basin and species-by-species basis and secure a workable result that delivers not just what the 700,000 people who signed up to the Fish Fight campaign want, but a sustainable solution for the fishing industry.

The hon. Gentleman spoke about the landing of black fish, and let the House be absolutely clear: those who land fish illegally are stealing fish from their fellow fishermen, so it is absolutely vital that we do all we can to crack down on that practice. He spoke also about regionalisation, as did a great many other Members, and about the welcome addition of the regional advisory councils in the 2002 reforms, and I absolutely agree that that is the basis on which we should talk, using a sea-basin approach to the management of our fisheries.

I want to see regionalisation work, but I concede the concerns, raised by hon. Members from all parties, that regionalisation in its current form could lead perversely to an increase in the Commission’s powers. That is not what we want, and we will push very hard to ensure that regionalisation is effectively that.

The hon. Gentleman and several others raised another point, about the proposed cuts in the December round to those stocks where there is data-deficiency. We won a very important argument in the Baltic round of negotiations last month, noting that the arbitrary 25% or 15% cuts on the basis of a lack of evidence was completely illogical. It results in more discards, in poverty and in people going out of business, and we won that point. It remains on the table for the December round, but the principle has been won and we will drive it home, because it is really important.

My hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh), the Chair of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, made a very important point when she spoke about her Committee’s desire to see more work on marketing less popular fish. DEFRA is doing that. We set up the “Fishing for the Markets” project, and among other things we are undertaking a land-all scheme in North Shields. Indeed, we have been doing so for a long time—for well over a year—and it is paying dividends. As Members have pointed out, 54% of discards are nothing to do with quotas; they are species that are not eaten in this country.

[Mr Redwood]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Richard Benyon]

If my right hon. Friend will allow me, I will not, because I have only five minutes and a lot to get through.

My hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton mentioned the lobsters and brown crabs off the coast of her constituency, and I assure her that we are thinking again about that issue, because we want to ensure that we carry people with us and our measures work.

The hon. Member for Redcar (Ian Swales), my hon. Friends the Members for South East Cornwall, for Waveney (Peter Aldous) and others spoke about the under 10 metre plan, as did the hon. Member for East Lothian (Fiona O'Donnell), who spoke for the Opposition.

[Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Richard Benyon]

If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I really do not have time.

The important thing is that those reforms really work. A lot of work has gone into the issue, not just by this Government, I am first to concede, and the three pilots will be taken forward. My hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) said that there is enthusiasm in his constituency, as there is around the coast, to ensure that they work, and we are recruiting coastal liaison officers, who will assist people not only with managing their fishing opportunity or quota, but with marketing their catch and getting a better price for what they land.

[Mr Redwood]

Will the Minister give way?

[Richard Benyon]

I am sorry, but I shall not give way.

The hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran asked about marine conservation zones, and that represented the one note of discord in the debate, but I think that I can address it precisely. The hon. Member for East Lothian, who leads for the Opposition, asked me to take forward proposals on which there is no scientific basis or not enough of one to sustain them, but that position was not taken during the lengthy hours of debate, in Committee and on the Floor of the House, about provisions that became the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009. Neither the Wildlife Trust nor anyone else took that position. What we will do—[Interruption]—and the hon. Lady would do well to listen to this—is obtain the evidence so that we can take forward an ecologically coherent network of marine conservation zones. I assure her that it will be something of which she can be proud—and so can we.

The hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) spoke with concern about the displacement effect of scallops, and he is absolutely right: our management of one area of the seas will impact on another. I assure him that I take that issue very seriously.

We secured a review of the cod recovery plan a year ago, and I—naively perhaps—thought that it might have manifested itself by now, but unfortunately there will be dramatic cuts in days at sea unless we can improve it.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker) for his praise. There is a terrifying hidden threat when Members are nice to Ministers, because they are saying, “If you fail, boy do you fail” but I take his comments at face value and absolutely assure him that recreational sea angling is key to what we want to do—not just because of the enjoyment that it provides, but because of its social and environmental benefits and what it does for coastal communities.

The hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Austin Mitchell) mentioned the 25% and 15% cut, but I hope he is reassured that we are going to fight it. On the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park made, I intend to get more management control out to 200 miles. With the marine conservation zones, it is vital that we get buy-in from the European Union, otherwise we might have the perverse case of conservation zones that are just for fishermen from the United Kingdom, not for those on vessels that fish from other parts of the EU.

Member states must be able to work regionally to develop management plans and to implement measures that are appropriate to their fisheries, but currently the proposals lack crucial detail on how regionalisation will work. I understand that there are legal constraints to devolving power, particularly to the regional level, but proposals must enable nations fishing in the same areas—often for the same fish, as Members have said—to come together and agree on how to manage their fisheries.

This debate is, of course, also important for allowing us to set out clearly that our partnership with fishermen, both in terms of science and how government works, is vital. This is a critical time for fisheries management and I am sure that the House shares my commitment and enthusiasm to take this once in a decade opportunity to overcome the structural failings of the CFP. It is a long and challenging road ahead, but the UK has a major role to play in influencing the new policy and, with negotiations under way, progress is being made.

However, there is a lot more we can and must do to deliver the reformed CFP that we want. We need continued engagement with the European Commission, other members states and the European Parliament to exert maximum influence throughout the negotiations. We also need to continue working closely with NGOs, fisherman, retailers, processors and others with an interest in fisheries and the marine environment to secure a policy that will deliver a real change for the future of fisheries and the marine environment. I hope that hon. Members will continue to support the Government’s view that fundamental reform of the CFP is required. I fully support the motion.

Marine Conservation Zones

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

As part of the Government’s commitment to implementing in full the provisions of the Marine and Coastal Access Act, we are creating a network of national protected areas in British seas to ensure our underwater wildlife flourishes in years to come. We are clear that looking after the wildlife and habitat in our seas is just as important as looking after those on land.

The Government’s first step to identifying new marine conservation zones (MCZs) in English waters was taken forward through four regional MCZ projects managed by the statutory nature conservation bodies, who are Natural England and the Joint Nature Conservation Committee. The regional projects provided their recommendations for proposed sites for MCZs on 8 September. These have been reviewed by the independent science advisory panel (SAP) and their advice to the SNCBs and DEFRA is being published today on DEFRA’s website.

The Marine and Coastal Access Act requires the establishment of a network of conservation sites in the UK marine area. In English waters the network will comprise European marine sites, sites of special scientific interest, sites designated under the Ramsar convention and marine conservation zones (MCZs). The Act requires that the network must conserve or improve the UK marine environment and protect a range of representative features.

The regional MCZ projects have done excellent work in bringing stakeholders together and making site recommendations, but it is clear from the SAP’s advice that there are a number of gaps and limitations in the scientific evidence base supporting the MCZ recommendations.

It is important that we get this right. It is vital that we have an adequate evidence base for every site if we are to create successful well-managed MCZs. An adequately robust evidence base will be essential when we come to implement management measures.

DEFRA will therefore be commissioning significant additional work to support MCZ designation including an in-depth review of the evidence base for all the regional projects’ site recommendations and committing additional resources to carrying out seabed and habitat monitoring.

Protecting our marine environment is essential and the Government remain fully committed to establishing MCZs to contribute to an ecologically coherent UK network. However, the need to strengthen the evidence base for the MCZ recommendations means this is going to take longer than the ambitious target first put forward. We are likely to be able to designate some MCZs fairly quickly where the supporting evidence is adequate. However, for others we anticipate that more investigation will be needed before they can progress towards designation.

Natural England and the Joint Nature Conservation Committee will provide the MCZ impact assessment and their formal advice in July 2012. This is six months later than previously planned and this revised timetable will enable them to address the recommendations from the independent review of the evidence process for selecting marine Special Areas of Conservation (published July 2011) and take account of any further evidence obtained from the work that DEFRA is now commissioning. We will give careful consideration to all the advice received before undertaking formal public consultation on MCZs by the end of 2012. This consultation will include all sites recommended by the regional projects with clarity on how and when work on them will be taken forward. It is envisaged that the first MCZ designations will take place in 2013.

DEFRA and delivery partners will work together ensuring that early management measures are put in place to provide effective levels of protection for designated sites and continuing to build the evidence base for future designations. DEFRA will also take the opportunity, working with stakeholders and SNCBs, to look at other marine features which may benefit from spatial protection.

This phased approach to designation will also allow more scope to shape the English network taking account of sites being considered by the devolved Administrations and neighbouring member states.