Oral Answers to Questions

David Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 6th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Solicitor-General]

My particular concern is the prosecution of cases involving domestic abuse. I am happy to say that numbers continue to rise, both in terms of the proportion of conviction rates and the absolute number of police referrals. In fact, we have now reached the highest number of police referrals ever recorded.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

2. What steps he is taking to develop a greater level of public understanding of the legal framework applicable to social media.

[The Attorney-General (Jeremy Wright)]

Where appropriate, I publish online warnings about potential prejudicial reporting that had previously only been given to the mainstream media. We also send tweets warning social media users of the risks of being in contempt of court. I intend to look again at whether there is anything more that can be done to raise awareness in this area. In addition, the Crown Prosecution Service publishes online its guidelines on prosecuting cases involving communications sent via social media. These set out the approach that prosecutors should take when deciding whether to prosecute.

[Mr Jones]

The inappropriate use of social media can cause immense harm to innocent people; there was a case just before Christmas of a young man who was driven to suicide by the actions of online bullies. What actions can my right hon. and learned Friend take to ensure that people understand that their unlawful conduct online is subject to precisely the same sanctions as such conduct offline?

[The Attorney-General]

I agree entirely with my right hon. Friend’s point. It is important for everyone to understand that if they engage in behaviour online and on social media that would be punished under criminal law in other circumstances, it will be punished under criminal law. As I said, the CPS is making an effort to publish its guidelines on a number of matters. This is one of them and there was a public consultation prior to it. We all need to play our part to ensure that people understand the law in this area.

NATO Summit

David Jones Excerpts

Monday 8th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I always have an open mind on these issues, but I say candidly to the hon. Gentleman that in the last four years I have often wanted to see even more of the capabilities that we have been ordering—intelligence, surveillance, special forces and transport—rather than more of the things that we have got rid of or discontinued. My instinct is that defence reviews are vital, but only if we make bold decisions about the future capabilities rather than hang on to old ones that might not have so many uses.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

May I commend the Prime Minister on the confidence he showed in Wales by bringing the NATO summit to Newport? It was the biggest international event of its kind ever held in this country and was clearly a resounding success. Does he agree that it is now important that Wales should capitalise on its period of international attention by ensuring that the international investment conference, which will take place in November, is an equal success?

[The Prime Minister]

I am very grateful for my right hon. Friend’s comments. The Welsh Assembly Government, the Secretary of State, the police and all the organisations, including Newport council, which I singled out, did a brilliant job, and Celtic Manor was an absolutely excellent venue. Something like 24,000 hotel room nights were required, not just in Wales, but on the other side of the Bristol channel. Wales must make sure we secure the legacy from the summit, and that can be seen in trade and investment. It was a great window on Wales. I also think there is a legacy in making sure that young people in our country understand the importance of NATO and of defence.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 9th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

1. What assessment he has made of the effects on the economy in Wales of fiscal measures taken by the Chancellor of the Exchequer since May 2010.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

We have announced significant measures to boost growth and support hard-working families. We have cut corporation tax, abolished national insurance contributions for the under-21s and by next April 155,000 people in Wales will have been taken out of income tax altogether.

[Mr Hollobone]

Given that the Chancellor’s decision to cut Britain’s corporation tax rate to the lowest in the G7 is one of the major reasons for Britain’s economic recovery, will my right hon. Friend reject the advice from the shadow Secretary of State that

“reducing headline corporation tax rates does not work”?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. Government analyses have shown that high corporate taxes have a negative impact on investment, jobs and growth, and that is why we are reducing the rate to 20% from next April, the joint lowest rate in the G20. The hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) would appear to be at odds with the shadow Chancellor, who has committed himself to low rates of corporate taxation.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State confirm that just 14,000 people have benefited from the tax cut to taxpayers on the highest rate, at an average of £40,000 each, at a time when 75,000 people in Wales are on zero-hours contracts? Does he think that is fair?

[Mr Jones]

By increasing the income tax threshold, we are taking increasing numbers out of income tax altogether. As I said in my substantive answer, by next April 155,000 people in Wales will be out of income tax. I would have hoped that the right hon. Gentleman welcomed that.

[Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

Actions speak louder than words. The real answer to the question was provided by the Secretary of State at the weekend, when he was the only member of the Cabinet who volunteered, as many Opposition Members have done, at a local food bank. Was that because he now agrees with us that food banks have become a vital bulwark against the impact of his Government’s fiscal policies in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

I am proud to have assisted those at the Ruthin food bank over the weekend—I spent four hours with them; they are doing essential work—but, frankly, rather than turning this issue into a political football, I would have thought that the hon. Lady would be far better off supporting the work of the Trussell Trust.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

2. What recent discussions he has had with his ministerial colleagues and others on devolving fiscal responsibility to the Welsh Government.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

I have regular discussions with ministerial colleagues on the Wales Bill, which devolves a significant package of tax and borrowing powers to the National Assembly and Welsh Ministers. The Bill completed its passage through this House on 24 June, and it will have its Second Reading in the Lords next Wednesday.

[Bob Blackman]

Being in the position to set tax rates and collect taxes will clearly bring a new-found fiscal responsibility, but does my right hon. Friend agree that the people of Wales should take that as an encouragement to vote in a Government in Wales who will look after their best interests?

[Mr Jones]

I certainly agree with that, and I also believe that it is essential, once the competence is in place, for the Welsh Government to call an early referendum on tax-varying powers to maximise the benefit we are creating through the measures in the Bill.

[Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab)]

Is it not the case that people in Wales would be buying a pig in a poke if income tax were devolved without a proper floor being put underneath the Barnett formula? The failure to address that issue has resulted in Wales being short-changed, so if income tax were devolved without the Barnett formula being addressed, it would be a bad outcome for Wales.

[Mr Jones]

I fear that the right hon. Gentleman has overlooked the arrangements that we put in place with the Welsh Government in October 2012, which ensure that if there is any danger of convergence, then the issue will be resolved. I believe that we should all be ambitious for Wales, and we should indeed be looking for a lower rate of income tax in Wales to give Wales the competitive advantage that it needs.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Is it the policy of the coalition parties fully to devolve income tax powers to Scotland, and if so, why does the Wales Bill still include a tax-sharing arrangement in relation to income tax powers, with the lockstep measure for safe measure? Why are the Tories treating Wales like a second-class nation?

[Mr Jones]

We have made it clear that the Scottish powers would kick in only after the next general election and they will, of course, have to be the subject of a manifesto commitment. However, Wales is not Scotland. We believe that the arrangements that we are putting in place are right for Wales. I would have hoped that the hon. Gentleman would support them.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

On devolution, in the last hour there has been an extremely important ruling by the Supreme Court. It found in favour of the Labour Welsh Government in their attempt to preserve an Agricultural Wages Board for Wales and to protect low-paid farm workers in Wales. Will the Secretary of State take this opportunity to apologise for wasting court time and money on seeking unlawfully to get rid of an Agricultural Wages Board for Wales, and will he commend the Welsh Government on their actions?

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman is entirely right that the Supreme Court delivered a judgment this morning. We are still considering the consequences of that. Where a procedure exists and there is an issue of doubt, it is entirely right that we should go to the Supreme Court to have the position clarified, and the position has been clarified.

[Owen Smith]

The Secretary of State is trying to present this as a score draw. To be clear, he has lost 2-0. This is the second time he has referred Welsh legislation to the Supreme Court and the second time he has lost. This time he was trying to stop the Welsh Government trying to protect agricultural wages in Wales. I ask him again: will he apologise for wasting time? Will he agree with me that his interference and this ruling show that we definitely need Labour’s proposal of a reserved powers model for the Assembly in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

I do not apologise for taking into account the devolution settlement and seeking clarity where it is necessary. To repeat, we are considering the ramifications of the judgment and will come back to the House in due course.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

3. If he will estimate the average change in disposable income for families in Wales since May 2010.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

10. What recent discussions he has had with ministerial colleagues and Ministers of the Welsh Government on health care provision in Wales and the English borders.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

The Wales Office continues to engage regularly with the Department of Health and the Welsh Government to discuss health care provision in Wales and along the border. Our focus is on ensuring that everyone, regardless of where they live, has access to high-quality health services that meet their needs.

[Mel Stride]

Given that the NHS in Wales has had its budget cut by 8%, that waiting times are longer than in England and that it has missed its accident and emergency targets since 2009, does my right hon. Friend agree that the NHS is far from safe in the Opposition’s hands?

[Mr Jones]

That is manifestly clear. While spending on the NHS has increased by £12.7 billion in England, it has been subjected to a cut of 8% by the Welsh Government. As my hon. Friend says, the consequence is that the health service in Wales is not safe in Labour’s hands.

[Stephen Mosley]

A constituent of mine living in Chester but registered with a GP in Wales would have to wait up to 52 weeks for a hip operation. If that same constituent were registered with a GP in England, they would have to wait 18 weeks. Does my right hon. Friend think that is fair?

[Mr Jones]

I do not, and of course people living on either side of the border are entitled to comparable standards of care. I am concerned that long waiting times in Wales are affecting not only Welsh patients but, as my hon. Friend said, those in England.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

You really would not think the Secretary of State was the son of a north Walian chemist from listening to his answers.

Regardless of which side of the border people live on, obesity is a ticking time bomb in this country. Why do the UK Government not have cross-border talks with the Welsh Government to do something on the issue, rather than constantly talking Wales down? When will they deal with the serious issues?

[Mr Jones]

I am glad to say that when my father was practising, we did not have the type of devolved health care that we are experiencing in Wales at the moment.

The hon. Lady is entirely right—it is necessary that discussions should take place, and they are taking place. I urge her to urge her friends in the Assembly to engage positively with the United Kingdom Government.

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Secretary of State acknowledge that there is a clear relationship between levels of poverty and demand for health care? With 75,000 people in Wales now on zero-hours contracts and a higher number of people in poverty being in work than out of work, is it not time that he got a fair share for Wales by getting the £300 million by which we are under-supported by the Barnett formula and the capital investment needed to deliver the proper health service that we all need and demand in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

If the Labour party recognises the links between poverty and poor health, it is surprising that the Welsh Labour Government have cut health spending by 8%.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

At the moment, patients from Radnorshire and east Breconshire have to travel to Cheltenham for radiotherapy, which is a long and stressful journey at a time when they are particularly unwell. A radiotherapy facility called the Macmillan Renton unit will soon open at Hereford hospital, and it will be an excellent facility for Herefordshire and Powys. Does the Secretary of State agree that that is an example of cross-border health care at its best?

[Mr Jones]

It is indeed, and it also illustrates the extent to which border communities such as those that my hon. Friend represents rely on health care provided in England—all the more reason for proper protocols to be put in place to ensure that that health care is adequate.

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

5. What the time scale is for the construction of a new nuclear power station at Wylfa.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Subject to final investment decisions, construction is expected to begin in late 2019. However, initial ground works have already begun and indications are that Wylfa Newydd remains on course to begin operating in the mid-2020s.

[David Mowat]

The Secretary of State may be aware that Wylfa will generate 10 times as much carbon-free electricity as is currently generated by every offshore and onshore wind farm in Wales. Does he agree that it is vital that we make progress on that project?

[Mr Jones]

I agree entirely, and that is why the generic design assessment for Wylfa Newydd is proceeding apace. We need an energy mix, and we need to ensure that fewer carbon emissions are produced. A mixture of nuclear and wind power will achieve that.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

As someone who has supported new nuclear build in Wales since my arrival in the House in 2001, and this project since its inception in 2008-09, will the Secretary of State join me in stating that the priority now must be to get the skill base and supply chain right, so that we have the jobs and high-quality skills that we deserve in north-west Wales? That means the UK Government working with the Welsh Government, local governments and stakeholders. Will the right hon. Gentleman agree to meet me to form a framework for that to happen?

[Mr Jones]

I am happy to commend the efforts the hon. Gentleman has made, and I entirely agree that the new build at Wylfa offers exciting prospects for the supply chain and for education. I am particularly impressed with the work that Coleg Menai is putting in, and I am more than happy to meet the hon. Gentleman at some future date.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

There is universal opposition across north Wales to building more pylons to carry the electricity, whether from Wylfa Newydd or wind production—that extends to the point made by the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) and others. Will the Secretary of State guarantee that proper and full consideration will be given to under-sea methods of transmission of electricity from any new sources?

[Mr Jones]

Of course, the difficulty with nuclear generation is that it requires the infrastructure to get it to the markets. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that some concern has been expressed about this issue, and where possible underground cabling has distinct advantages. No final decisions have been made, and National Grid is carrying out further environmental and technical assessments.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

6. What assessment he has made of the progress of the broadband roll-out programme and the effects of that programme on the tourism industry in Wales.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

7. What steps the Government is taking to improve infrastructure connectivity between north Wales and England.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

As part of our long-term economic plan, we are currently investing in infrastructure at unprecedented levels. Last week, we announced £10 million of investment to upgrade the Halton curve, renewing north Wales’s direct link with Liverpool and improving connectivity across the north-west of England.

[Ian Lucas]

On Friday, I will visit Rossett to see the investment of £44 million by the Welsh Government in the dualling of the Wrexham-Chester line, which was made a single line by the Tories in the 1980s. I welcome the investment announced by the Chancellor last week, but will the Secretary of State tell us when that will happen and when the Halton curve work will be done?

[Mr Jones]

It is clearly intended to proceed as quickly as possible. Connectivity between Wrexham and Merseyside is extremely important. I welcome, of course, the belated investment by the Welsh Government, but there is more to be done, and I think the hon. Gentleman and I are agreed on the need to look at electrification further north.

[Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con)]

The funding of the northern hub in full and the many other transport announcements are incredibly welcome, and show an investment in the north’s transport infrastructure that was barely evident under the previous Government. Having taken four hours to get from Wrexham to Leeds, however, I would like the Secretary of State to make sure that north Wales will enjoy the benefits of that record investment.

[Mr Jones]

The Halton curve is, of course, important in that it connects north Wales with the city of Liverpool, which is the most important economic centre in the region. My hon. Friend is also right that we need to make sure that connectivity is improved across the whole of the north of England.

[Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)]

8. What recent assessment he has made of trends in levels of employment in Wales.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 14th May 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Amess (Southend West) (Con)]

1. What assessment he has made of the potential effects of the measures in the 2014 Budget on businesses in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

The Budget represents the next step in our long-term economic plan with a package of measures to deliver economic security for businesses and people in Wales and across the UK.

[Mr Amess]

I hope that this is not too difficult a question for my right hon. Friend, but does he agree with my Welsh relatives that the best way to help businesses is to reduce taxation?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is entirely right, which is why we have reduced the rate of corporation tax from 28p in the pound to 21p, with a further reduction to 20% next year. For similar reasons, the Wales Bill makes provision for the Welsh Assembly to call a referendum on a lower rate of taxation for Wales, and I hope that it will seize that opportunity.

[Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab)]

Given that the future of businesses in Wales depends on the vibrancy of our young workers, is the right hon. Gentleman encouraged by the fact that the Welsh Government’s policies are clearly working, in that the youth unemployment rate has come down faster and further than anywhere else in the United Kingdom? Will he be less churlish towards the Welsh Government and praise the jobs growth fund and that achievement?

[Mr Jones]

Far from being churlish, I commend Jobs Growth Wales for making an important contribution. Having said that, it is a limited contribution, and the important thing is for the Welsh Government to work closely with the Department for Work and Pensions to ensure that we can drive down even further the unemployment rates.

[Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

With businesses in Wales still cautious and a Budget that does little to help the 300,000 people in Wales who are earning less than the living wage, will the Secretary of State now back Labour’s plans to give a tax break to businesses that raise their employees’ pay to at least the living wage, so that work will pay?

[Mr Jones]

As the hon. Lady knows, we have given every business in Wales relief against national insurance contributions of up to £2,000. We have also taken young people up to the age of 21 out of employers’ national insurance contributions altogether. I very much hoped that the hon. Lady would welcome that. It was an excellent Budget for business in Wales.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

2. What assessment he has made of the net benefits to people in Wales of the UK’s membership of the EU.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

4. Whether he has recently discussed the importance of UK membership of the EU with leading employers in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

The EU remains a vital export market for Wales, together with countries outside the EU, but Wales and the UK would benefit from a renegotiated position within Europe, which is why the Prime Minister has committed to negotiating a new settlement in the European Union, to secure jobs and growth and to enable the EU to become more competitive, flexible and prosperous.

[Mr Hanson]

Given that 191,000 jobs in Wales are directly dependent on the EU, that £1 billion came to Wales last year from the EU, and that firms such as Ford in the south and Airbus in the north are committed to maintaining our relationship with the EU, will the Secretary of State join me in saying that the EU is good for Britain? The uncertainty that he is creating should be stopped.

[Mr Jones]

I certainly agree with the right hon. Gentleman that membership of a free trade area is extremely good for Britain. Where I disagree with him, I think, is on the level of intervention and top-down meddlesome interference by the EU. The people of this country clearly want a referendum on Europe and only the Conservative party can and will deliver that referendum.

[Kevin Brennan]

What Welsh business leaders want from their political leaders is certainty about our future in the European Union. Why is the Secretary of State so reluctant to say that being a member of the European Union is good for Wales? Is he personally committed to this country’s future membership of the European Union?

[Mr Jones]

As I have just made clear to the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson), I believe that membership of a free trade area is extremely important for Britain, but what the people of this country want is a say on whether they should remain part of the sort of Europe we have at the moment. It is interesting that the Labour party is not anxious to deliver a voice to the people of Wales.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Huw Irranca-Davies.

--- Later in debate ---

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

I am rightly reprimanded, Mr Speaker. I must pay attention.

On the basis that the head of European operations has made it clear that to threaten exit from the EU would be cutting off our nose to spite our face, and that 14,000 jobs in Ford Bridgend and in Dagenham would rely on our not leaving the EU, will the right hon. Gentleman say that he, as the Secretary of State for Wales responsible for protecting those jobs, is personally committed to keeping Wales within the UK and the European Union?

[Mr Jones]

I think that the hon. Gentleman is referring to the director of operations for Ford’s manufacturing operations in Europe, Mr Steve Odell. Mr Odell also said:

“there are absolutely some rules and regulations…that are difficult to take”.

We agree with Mr Odell on that and that is why we want the people of this country to have their say on their future in Europe after renegotiation, which only the Conservative party can and will deliver.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that many people in Wales are deeply concerned about the extra powers that have been given to the European Union, largely by Labour Members, and that it is absolutely right that this coalition Government should seek to renegotiate our position in the European Union and put the results of that negotiation to the people of Wales and the rest of the United Kingdom?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. This Conservative party intends to renegotiate our position within Europe and to put that renegotiation to the British people in a vote by the end of 2017. We think that that is democracy and it is a shame that the Labour party does not share that view.

[James Wharton (Stockton South) (Con)]

I absolutely agree with my right hon. Friend that we need to renegotiate and get a better deal from the European Union, but does he not also agree that it is about time we ended the uncertainty and that the only way we can do that is by giving the British people, not just in Wales but across the UK, a say in an in/out vote?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is right and I applaud his sterling efforts to try to achieve that. We intend to give the people of this country—the whole country—a vote on Europe and we are the only party that can and will do that.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

15. Clearly, one opportunity offered by the European Union is that of greater investment in the energy supply in Wales and potential exports to the EU. What conversations has my right hon. Friend had with his colleagues in the European Union on the opportunities for such investment?

[Mr Jones]

The energy sector is very important for Wales and the Government are investing heavily in energy, including giving support for the new nuclear power station at Wylfa Newydd. The market between this country and Europe is extremely important—a two-way flow—and our energy interventions will ensure that our energy sector is supported.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

We know that this Government are out of touch, but listening to the Secretary of State this morning I fear that he is completely out of touch with the views of Welsh business about the European Union. Has he spoken to Ford, GE, Hitachi, Citibank, BMW or Airbus, which are all companies that have expressed their concerns? If he has not, does he know how many jobs in Wales are reliant on our membership of the European Union?

[Mr Jones]

I speak regularly to Welsh businesses—I dare say more frequently than the hon. Gentleman does. What is absolutely clear is that although Welsh businesses value their engagement with Europe, they feel that there is too much regulation and too much meddlesome interference from the European Union. We need to strike a proper balance. That is why we intend to renegotiate our position with Europe and at the end of that process hold a referendum.

[Owen Smith]

I doubt that the Secretary of State is actively talking to those businesses, because when I talk to them, what I hear are their grave concerns about the uncertainty that he is creating. He did not answer the question. In truth, one in seven jobs in Wales is now reliant on EU trade. Does he not accept that the attitude of his Government and the attitude of a Secretary of State who has referred to Europe as “a basket case” is jeopardising those jobs, and does he not realise that it is only Labour that will secure them? That is why a Labour vote next week is a vote for jobs in Wales.

[Mr Jones]

What I recognise fully is that the Labour party is reluctant—in fact, it is refusing—to give the British people a vote on this important issue. So far as business is concerned, the hon. Gentleman ought to understand that 72% of companies interviewed in north America for the Ernst and Young attractiveness survey thought that reduced integration in the EU would make the UK more attractive as a foreign direct investment location. He does not understand that; we do, which is why we can and we will give the people of Wales and Britain a vote on their future in Europe.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

With 300,000 people in Wales being paid less than the living wage, what impact does the Secretary of State consider uncontrolled immigration from the EU is having on wage levels in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

These matters will of course have to form part of the negotiation that we propose. We believe that by and large our membership of the EU has been beneficial for Britain, but clearly the form that we have at the moment needs renegotiation.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Mr Elfyn Llwyd.

--- Later in debate ---

[Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con)]

6. What discussions he has had with his Cabinet colleagues and others on transport investment in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

I have regular discussions with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport and key stakeholders across Wales and firmly believe that improving transport infrastructure is a key facilitator of economic growth.

[Karen Lumley]

Does the Secretary of State agree that the Welsh Assembly Government should do their bit in electrifying the South Wales line, as they promised?

[Mr Jones]

Certainly, the electrification of the South Wales line is important for Cardiff and Swansea and the stations between. We are willing and anxious to perform our part of the bargain that we struck in July 2012. I have had recent discussions with both my right hon. Friend and the Welsh Minister for Economy, Science and Transport, and I hope that we can find a way forward.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

The Minister will be aware that the Department for Transport took a decision a few months ago to relocate all driver and vehicle licensing services from Northern Ireland to Swansea. What steps is he taking to ensure, along with his colleague, that the services provided to all motorists throughout the United Kingdom will not be adversely affected by this retrograde decision?

[Mr Jones]

The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency has been established in Swansea for many years. It has a high level of expertise and I am entirely confident that it will be able to cope with all the demands that are made upon it.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

14. Mid-Wales businesses depend upon good access to the west midlands to maximise their economic opportunities. For those businesses based in Brecon, that means the A438. Will the Secretary of State work with the Welsh Assembly, the Department for Transport and local government to ensure that that route is upgraded, particularly around Hereford, where a bypass is needed to avoid the bottleneck?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend raises an important issue that has been the subject of discussion for some time. These routes fall partly under the purview of the Welsh Government and partly under that of the Department for Transport. I wrote to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport about this very issue only this morning.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

The Mayor of London is now making the case for a £30 billion underground orbital road. Crossrail will cost £16 billion and HS2 will cost £50 billion at least. Considering the historically low levels of transport infrastructure investment in Wales, far below our population share, when will the Secretary of State start making the case for a fair share for Wales via the appropriate funding formula mechanism?

[Mr Jones]

HS2, of course, is an extremely important project that will benefit Wales, particular north Wales and mid-Wales. I am speaking to David Higgins of HS2 about that issue this very afternoon.

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister promised to electrify the railway line from Paddington to Swansea, and now he is saying that it will go to Cardiff and from Bridgend to Swansea, but not the bit in the middle. When will he listen to Swansea business, withdraw from the Punch and Judy performance between the Welsh and UK Governments, and get the project delivered on time and to budget for the Swansea city region’s jobs?

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman will know—I have made it clear previously and I make it clear once again—that the Government are entirely willing and anxious to perform their part of the bargain in the electrification of the Great Western main line. We are having continuing discussions with the Welsh Government, and I hope that they will be fruitful.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

7. What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Defence on that Department’s operations relating to Wales.

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[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

8. What discussions he has had with his Cabinet colleagues and Ministers of the Welsh Government on patient choice in health care on the Wales-England border.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Access to high-quality health care is an important issue for people across the UK, and particularly for those in the border areas. Following last week’s discussions on the matter in this House, I have written to the Secretary of State for Health and the First Minister urging swift action be taken to find a solution to the current difficulties.

[Mr Harper]

The Secretary of State will know that a number of my constituents—thousands, in fact—are forced to use the NHS in Wales. They will therefore be very concerned by the report published yesterday, “Trusted to care”, which shows serious failings in the treatment of frail older people at two Welsh hospitals. Even the Labour Minister said he was shocked. Do not the people of Wales and my constituents deserve better?

[Mr Jones]

I think that Members across the House were equally shocked by the contents of the report. I am glad to see that the Welsh Minister of Health has taken some action on the matter, but I repeat that the Government are more than willing to offer our assistance, perhaps by commissioning a Keogh-style inquiry.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

The Midland Centre for Spinal Injuries at Gobowen provides the highest quality of care to patients from Wales with spinal injuries. They are concerned about the future of specialist services because of NHS reforms in England. Will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss the concerns expressed to me by my constituents?

[Mr Jones]

I agree entirely that the Gobowen hospital is a world-renowned centre of excellence, and I am concerned about what the hon. Gentleman says. I am very happy to meet him and would be grateful if he contacted my office.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

13. Access to cross-border health services is not restricted to the border areas, but access to specialist services is relevant to my constituents. The protocols are not working at the moment. In his discussions with Ministers, will the Secretary of State ensure that cross-border protocols are working for specialist services in particular?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. Key to this issue is the cross-border protocol. As a consequence of last week’s debate, I have written to both my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and the Welsh Health Minister, and we will see whether we can improve that protocol.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

9. What discussions he has had with his Cabinet colleagues and others regarding the future of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs Welsh language services.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 26th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

3. What discussions he has had with the Department of Health and Ministers of the Welsh Government on facilitating access for patients from Wales and English border areas to hospital services in England.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

I recently met the public health Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Jane Ellison), and my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper) to discuss cross-border health issues. It is essential that we continue to work with the Welsh Government to ensure that patients on both sides of the border have access to the best health services possible.

[Jesse Norman]

Over 20,000 English residents are registered with GP practices in Wales and have been denied access to hospitals of their choice in England. Does the Secretary of State share my view that NHS Wales has seriously overreached itself by denying patients living in England the right to choose where they receive hospital treatment? Does he agree that we urgently need to change the cross-border protocols to ensure that all patients have access to the highest standards of care?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend will be keenly aware of this issue; as he says, many of his constituents rely on GPs from Wales. Similarly, Hereford hospital is an important hospital for patients from Wales. I entirely agree that the cross-border protocol needs to be made fit for purpose, and my office and the Department of Health are working closely together to that end.

[Mr Harper]

The Secretary of State will know—I am very grateful for his support at my recent meeting—that thousands of my constituents are forced to use the NHS in Wales rather than being able to access hospital services in England, as is their legal right. The Health Secretary has said he is going to fix that by the end of the year. In the meantime, is the Secretary of State as concerned as I am that some of the mortality statistics in Welsh hospitals are dangerously high? Has he discussed that in his discussions?

[Mr Jones]

I repeat that the cross-border protocol is of prime importance, and my office, the Department of Health and the Welsh Government are working closely on it. I am glad to see, however, that the Aneurin Bevan health board is allowing patients from England some element of choice. The issue of mortality is of course a concern, and it has been expressed not only by us but by the chief executive of the Healthcare Inspectorate Wales.

[Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab)]

When I was Secretary of State, I was always keen to praise success in Wales. Would the Secretary of State care to congratulate the Welsh NHS on having a nurse-to-patient ratio that is a fifth higher than that of England, where his Government have cut the number of nurses by 7,000? Will he also congratulate the Welsh Government on recruiting doctors at a much faster rate than in England?

[Mr Jones]

I am always keen and ready to give praise where praise is due. Certainly, Welsh clinicians and nurses do a wonderful job. The fact remains, however, that outcomes in Wales are significantly worse than they are in England, which, to be frank, is something about which the right hon. Gentleman should join me in expressing concern. I also suggest that he have a word with his friend the Welsh Minister for Health and suggest to him that he might wish to take on board the recommendations of Professor Keogh.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Is the Secretary of State aware of the superb service provided for north Wales patients by the Midlands centre for spinal injuries in Gobowen, which carries out life-changing work? Specialist services are being changed by the Government, of which the right hon. Gentleman is the Welsh Secretary. Will he visit the spinal injuries centre and meet me to discuss the concerns about the specialist care proposed by his Government?

[Mr Jones]

I am always keen to praise the work of hospitals that offer such important services to Wales. I fully agree with the hon. Gentleman that the hospital in Gobowen is of world-class standard but, sadly, in terms of waiting times, the target time for English patients is only 18 weeks, whereas in Wales it is 26 weeks, which is unacceptable. Frankly, the hon. Gentleman should agree with me that it is not right that Welsh patients, who pay their taxes at the same rate as English patients, should have substandard care.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

Powys local health board has just closed six beds at Knighton hospital because of recruitment problems. With Llandrindod hospital almost always full, that could cause bed-blocking in Hereford hospital. Will the Secretary of State work with the Department of Health and the Welsh Assembly to ensure that those beds are reopened as soon as possible, that Welsh patients can recover from their illnesses in their own community and that capacity is kept available in Hereford hospital?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend illustrates an important point, which is that patients on both sides of the border are frequently reliant on care provided on the other side of the border. He makes a sensible point, because it is clear that Knighton hospital will be put under pressure if the current arrangements in the health care system in Wales continue to prevail.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

The Tory war on Wales has reached a new low in this House today: four questions from compliant Tory Back Benchers, all suggesting that a higher proportion of Welsh patients are being treated in England when the reverse is the case. Would the Secretary of State like to correct the record and tell those Members the truth, which is that the proportion of Welsh patients being treated in England has fallen and the reverse proportion has risen?

[Mr Jones]

What I will say is that, in terms of cancer care, Welsh patients are increasingly dependent on English services and, to be frank, are seeking them out, so I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman raises that point.

[Owen Smith]

I am particularly surprised that the right hon. Gentleman should choose cancer as a topic of debate, because the truth is that, in cancer care, Wales is outperforming England. In fact, in the trusts of the hon. Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman), the numbers show that 81% of patients are meeting the 62-week target, which is worse than three quarters of all the trusts in Wales. We spend more on cancer in Wales and we have faster improving outcomes. This is a smear by a Secretary of State and a Tory party that used to speak for Wales.

[Mr Jones]

That is actually a smear from a Labour party which is in total dereliction of its duty to Welsh patients. Frankly, the Welsh Government cannot afford to be complacent when they have not met the urgent suspected cancer waiting time since 2008. Furthermore, there is no cancer drugs fund in Wales. Instead of reacting so badly to criticism, the hon. Gentleman might wish to criticise his own friends in the Welsh Government.

[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

13. Despite the claims of the shadow Secretary of State, tens of thousands of people flee the Welsh NHS to seek treatment in Chester every year. Is that not a damning indictment of the Welsh Labour party, which has cut health spending in Wales by 8%?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. We have protected the health budget in England, but the Welsh Government have cut their health budget by 8%. That is, to be frank, disgraceful and unsupportable. I suggest to Opposition Members that, rather than being in denial, they should criticise their own colleagues in the Welsh Assembly for their dereliction of duty to patients in Wales.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

4. What discussions he has had with the First Minister of Wales in the past six weeks on the implementation of the proposals of the Commission on Devolution in Wales; and if he will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

The Wales Bill, which I introduced in this House last week, implements most of the recommendations made by the Commission on Devolution in Wales in its first report. I had proposed to discuss the Bill and the commission’s second report with the First Minister on Monday but, sadly, the meeting was postponed.

[Mr Llwyd]

It is absolutely disgraceful that it has taken the Government one year to respond to the first recommendations of the Silk report. Why does the Secretary of State not get a grip now and bring in the second tranche of recommendations in the new Bill that he has introduced? We have been treading water in Parliament for the past few weeks. There is plenty of legislative time. If the will is there, let us get on with it.

[Mr Jones]

I am surprised to hear that criticism from the right hon. Gentleman, as he knows that we will implement the recommendations of part I of the Silk commission in this Parliament. So far as part II is concerned, he should surely recognise that the recommendations will require significant consideration. Where those recommendations do not require primary legislation, we will look at implementing them in this Parliament, but we clearly cannot guarantee to do that.

[Mr Llwyd]

May I ask about zero-hours contracts? Does the Secretary of State appreciate that they are exploitative, and no more so than in the care sector, which the Resolution Foundation has said is

“where their use is most entrenched and where their impact on vulnerable workers and care recipients is most worrying”?

Does he not agree that to hear Labour carping about that matter here and voting against an amendment to delete it in Wales is a bit unfortunate? Does it appear at all on his radar, or is he above all this?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

That is a nice try, and I am in a generous mood.

[Mr Jones]

That is extremely generous, Mr Speaker.

I do not recall that zero-hours contracts were subject to the recommendations of part II of Silk report. I will look again at the report more closely, but the right hon. Gentleman will know that, as a proportion, zero-hours contracts are only 2% of all contracts for work in Wales.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is difficult to see the justification for the devolution of further powers given that the Welsh Government are refusing any fiscal accountability?

[Mr Jones]

We are anxious to seek fiscal accountability for the Assembly, and that is what we propose to deliver with, no doubt, the support of all parts of the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

6. What discussions he has had with Ministers of the Welsh Government on NHS waiting times in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

As we have heard this morning, care standards in Wales are a matter of general concern. Long waiting times are just one aspect of that. As it is a devolved matter, it is for the Welsh Government to act.

[Alun Cairns]

Nearly 10% of urgent cancer cases wait more than 62 days for treatment. The target has not been met since 2008. Some 57% of urgent ambulance calls arrive within eight minutes. The target has been met only once in 22 months. Some 33% of patients wait longer than eight weeks for diagnostic services. Does the Secretary of State agree that that is completely unacceptable? Will he take the matter up with the First Minister in Wales, with the support of the Secretary of State for Health, to ensure that my—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The hon. Gentleman should resume his seat. He has to work out his questions in advance. That question was far too long. He really has to practise.

[Mr Jones]

The point that my hon. Friend makes is right and it is a matter of concern. The Welsh Government should give serious consideration to the recommendation of Sir Bruce Keogh that there should be an inquiry into those matters. I hope that they will have one.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

My constituents and the constituents of the Secretary of State go to the hospital in Gobowen in Shropshire, the Countess of Chester hospital in England, Clatterbridge hospital in Wirral and the Christie in Manchester for cancer services, and the Royal Liverpool university hospital for heart surgery. Will he guarantee that the changes to the health service in England, which are very damaging, will not increase Welsh waiting times?

[Mr Jones]

I fully agree with the right hon. Gentleman about the importance of those hospitals to Welsh patients. In England, the waiting time for treatment is 18 weeks. In Wales, it is 26 weeks. That is completely unacceptable. I hope that he agrees that there is no reason why his constituents or mine should be treated worse than patients from England.

[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

10. Does the Minister not think, as a basic matter of principle, that it is incredibly unfair that waiting times in so many areas are so much longer in Wales? All of us, as British MPs, have a duty to take this matter seriously, particularly the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain), whose constituents are affected. I agree entirely. Waiting times are a matter of huge concern. In most cases, the Welsh NHS is not meeting its own waiting time target of 26 weeks, which is considerably longer than the 18-week target in England. Frankly, that is unacceptable. I hope that the Welsh Government are listening carefully to the points that are being expressed in this Question Time.

[Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

We have heard some strange statements today. On cancer waiting times, the Secretary of State must recognise that, with 92% of patients in Wales starting treatment within the 62-day target, Wales performs better than three quarters of the NHS areas in England. What does he think the priority should be for English MPs: scrutinising the NHS in their own area or making ill-informed comments about the NHS in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

I agree entirely with my hon. Friends that they have a right to hold the Welsh NHS to account when Opposition Members are clearly incapable of making representations to their colleagues in the Assembly who have failed the health service so badly.

[Mr Simon Burns (Chelmsford) (Con)]

Has my right hon. Friend seen the written answer that I received two weeks ago about cancer waiting times in Wales, which shows that the number of patients fleeing Wales to get treatment in England has increased dramatically in the last 10 years? Does he agree that that is a damning indictment of the administration of the NHS in Wales, and that Nye Bevan must be turning in his grave?

[Mr Jones]

I agree entirely. Anybody with a reasonable mind would agree that those figures are entirely unacceptable. Again, I suggest to Opposition Members from Wales that they should have a discreet word with their colleagues in the Assembly to ensure that Welsh patients get the standard of health care that they deserve and need.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

7. What discussions he has had with Cabinet Office Ministers and the Electoral Commission on administrative management of the forthcoming elections in Wales to the European Parliament.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Wales Office Ministers have discussed the administration of the forthcoming elections to the European Parliament with both the Electoral Commissioner for Wales, and the cities and constitution Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark).

[Jonathan Edwards]

As the Secretary of State knows, the chief executive of Carmarthenshire county council is not at his desk because of a criminal investigation following a damning Wales Audit Office report into unlawful payments. However, he retains responsibility for the forthcoming European elections as local returning officer. Indeed, if memory serves me correctly, he was a deputy for the whole of Wales at the last European elections. Will the Secretary of State discuss urgently with the Cabinet Office the need for statutory protocol for removing electoral duties from public officials who are suspended from their everyday roles?

[Mr Jones]

As the hon. Gentleman says, an investigation is currently being conducted by the police. The Government’s priority is, of course, to ensure the smooth running of the European elections. The Cabinet Office is responsible for that and is keeping a close eye on the situation.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

14. There are currently 6.5 million people missing from the electoral register in the UK, and in the dry run, matching Department for Work and Pensions databases to local election registers, where others have an 80% hit, there are wards in Aberystwyth where only 18% of people are registered on the data crossover. What will the Minister do about that?

[Mr Jones]

I am sure the hon. Gentleman would support the principle of individual electoral registration. The recent confirmation dry run matched 78% of electors across Great Britain, 79.9% across Wales, and in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency of the Vale of Clwyd it was 81.4%. I have faith in the process and I am sure that he should too. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There is far too much noise in the Chamber and it would be good if it would quieten down. I encourage the Secretary of State, whom I am sure wants his answers to be heard, perhaps to speak up a little.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

8. What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Education and Ministers of the Welsh Government on facilitating access by primary and secondary school students in Wales to schools in border areas in England.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Young people in border areas of Wales can apply to attend schools in England, provided they meet the admissions criteria. It is essential that all young people have access to the best possible education and training, regardless of where they live.

[Michael Fabricant]

We have already heard how the Welsh Labour Government have let people down with the health service, but they are also letting people down on education, with scores from the programme for international student assessment stating that education levels in Wales are lower than in rural areas of Romania. What can my right hon. Friend do to have any influence at all over the Welsh Government, to ensure that school children in Wales get as good an education as they do in England?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is entirely right to identify the PISA results, which have declined progressively over the past few years. Indeed, the First Minister acknowledged that he had taken his eye off the ball. We are concerned about that and hope the First Minister is too, and that he will address the situation as quickly as possible.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 12th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

1. What assessment he has made of the level of business investment by banks in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Recent Bank of England data show that the availability of credit to businesses, including small and medium-sized enterprises, has increased significantly across the United Kingdom.

[Ian Lucas]

Businesses in Wrexham tell me that the biggest barrier to growth is the lack of availability of finance. Today Barclays has talked of more redundancies and more bankers’ bonuses. Will the Secretary of State support me by establishing a regional bank for Wales which will be attuned to the local economy, and which will provide the finance for business that will enable the local economy to grow?

[Mr Jones]

The proposal for a development bank for Wales was floated recently by Professor Dylan Jones-Evans, and I believe that he is now conducting another exercise for Edwina Hart, the business development Minister in Wales. We are certainly prepared to consider the proposal, and, in fact, I have already discussed it with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills.

[Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend welcome the fact that it was this Government who passed the Financial Services (Banking Reform) Act 2013, which enabled local banks to come into existence and has resulted in the creation of more than 20 new challenger banks, and which the Labour party voted against?

[Mr Jones]

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. Furthermore, the Government are working closely with the British Bankers Association to set up a business finance taskforce, which gives bank customers a right of appeal when they feel that they have been treated unfairly.

[Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab)]

Why, instead of coming out with the usual Government flannel, does the Secretary of State not admit that, according to the House of Commons Library, net bank lending—that is, new loans minus repayments—to small and medium-sized enterprises in Wales has been negative over the last two years? Since the third quarter of 2011, small businesses in Wales have paid back to the banks £148 million more than they have been able to borrow, and medium-sized businesses have paid back £186 million more than they have been lent. The truth is that the banking system in Wales is broken, and the Secretary of State is doing nothing about it.

[Mr Jones]

On the contrary, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman) has just pointed out, the Financial Services (Banking Reform) Act has put a great deal more power into the hands of customers. It has also done a great deal to repair the damage that was done under the last Labour Administration.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Many of my constituents continue to be affected by the interest rate swap scandal, when banks were deliberately targeting businesses, and wrecking lives and real economic activity. My constituents Mr and Mrs Bartels, for instance, were deliberately bankrupted by Barclays. What can the Secretary of State do to support the excellent work of the hon. Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) and the all-party parliamentary group on interest rate swap mis-selling to secure justice for Welsh businesses that have been ripped off by exploitative banks?

[Mr Jones]

I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman: my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) has indeed done a great deal. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to write to me about the individual case that he mentioned, I will investigate it further.

[Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

Given that banks are still not doing enough to help entrepreneurs in Wales, does the Secretary of State support his right hon. Friend the Chancellor in his legal pursuit of the European Union to prevent it from capping bankers’ bonuses?

[Mr Jones]

The position on bankers’ bonuses is entirely clear. In respect of the banks in which the Government have a shareholding, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has already said that there will be no cash bonuses of more than £2,000 at RBS and Lloyds Banking Group, and that the Government will veto any proposals to increase overall pay—that is, pay and bonus bills—at RBS.

[John Howell (Henley) (Con)]

2. What recent assessment he has made of employment trends in Wales.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

3. How many fitness to practise cases regulated by the Nursing and Midwifery Council in Wales are waiting to be resolved.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

While the Government do not hold the information requested, the Nursing and Midwifery Council advises that there are currently 190 fitness to practise cases in Wales that are waiting to be resolved.

[Ann Clwyd]

The Health Select Committee drew attention last year to the fact that there were 400 unresolved cases going back over a two-year period. Will the Secretary of State tell us how many of those cases are in Wales and how long they have been waiting for resolution? Is it not unfair on patients in Wales that that matter is still hanging over those hospitals?

[Mr Jones]

I commend the right hon. Lady for her role in chairing the committee that came up with such an important report on the processing of complaints in the health service.

Although the issue of complaints about nurses and midwives must be one for the Nursing and Midwifery Council, we are clearly anxious to ensure that complaints should be properly investigated. That is why we were extremely pleased that the Welsh Minister for Health and Social Services has now instituted his own inquiry into this issue.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that people who have complaints about the NHS in Wales under the Labour Welsh Assembly Government are unable simply to cross the border and access the far better treatments, wider range of drugs and shorter waiting lists on offer to those fortunate enough to be served by the Conservative coalition Government in England?

[Mr Jones]

Clearly, the issue of access to cross-border services is a matter of concern both to patients and practitioners in Wales. The Wales Office is closely engaged on this matter with the Department of Health and with the Welsh Assembly Government.

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

4. What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Justice on the Ministry of Justice’s shared services centre in Newport.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

5. If he will discuss with the First Minister the standards of education in Wales and of Welsh jobseekers in England; and if he will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

I am concerned that Wales risks being left behind in the employment market. All young people deserve an education system that provides them with the qualifications, skills and training needed to compete successfully in the global jobs market.

[Michael Fabricant]

You will know, Mr Speaker, that I served on the Committee that dealt with the Welsh Language Act 1993, that my mother is a Welsh language speaker and that I very much support bilingualism in Wales. However, does my right hon. Friend share my surprise that when I was debating the low standard of education in Wales with the Labour First Minister, he admitted that his Government took their “eye off the ball”? A whole generation of Welsh children was betrayed by the Labour Welsh Government.

[Mr Jones]

The First Minister clearly did take his eye off the ball. The recent programme for international student assessment—PISA—ratings show the extent to which the Welsh educational system is failing. That is because the Welsh Government are pursuing a course that does not mirror the improvements we are making in England, and I very much hope that the new Welsh Minister for Education and Skills will learn from the reforms we are implementing.

[Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con)]

12. My two children were educated in Wrexham in their early years. Does the Secretary of State share my concern about the PISA league tables, which he mentioned? What discussions is he having with the Welsh Assembly Government to try to ensure the very best education for all our children in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

The Welsh Minister for Education and Skills has apologised for the failings of the Welsh Government, and that is a good start. However, they ought to examine the reforms we are implementing in England and give serious consideration to emulating them.

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

6. What discussions he has had with Ministers in the Welsh Government on waiting times for mental health support for combat veterans in Wales compared with those in England.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

It is essential that our veterans receive the best support and medical treatment, including mental health care, available to assist them to rebuild their lives.

[Simon Hart]

A military veteran living in Carmarthenshire has been told by NHS Wales that he has to wait up to eight months for urgent mental health treatment. The Veterans Association tells me that in parts of England the wait would be seven to 10 days. Will the Secretary of State sort out this problem on behalf of Welsh veterans?

[Mr Jones]

That is clearly a disturbing tale. The military covenant gives veterans the right to access to early health care. The sort of delays that my hon. Friend is referring to are quite unacceptable, and I invite him to write to me about the issue.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

The generosity of Welsh people in donating to mental health charities for veterans is unsurpassed. However, there have been concerns in recent months about the regulation and oversight of some of those charities and of some of the treatments available. Will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss those concerns to ensure that every penny piece that is raised by people in Wales goes towards the very best treatment for our veterans?

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman raises an extremely important issue and I would be pleased to meet him to discuss it.

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

On Friday I met members of Swansea’s Combat Stress group, who told me that the nearest places for in-patient treatment were in Shropshire, Surrey or Scotland. Will the Secretary of State meet me and the Secretary of State for Defence, who is now in his seat, to talk about providing facilities for in-patient care for war veterans in St Athan and the idea of moving units coming out of Germany to St Athan in south Wales to provide much needed employment and economic stimulus?

[Mr Speaker]

Too long!

[Mr Jones]

I suggest that the hon. Gentleman attend the meeting that I have already agreed with the hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies).

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

7. What assessment he has made of the effects on Wales of the Government’s policy on superfast broadband roll-out.

--- Later in debate ---

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

9. What recent discussions he has had with his ministerial colleagues on the effects of VAT on the tourism and hospitality industry in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Tourism and hospitality play an important role in the economy in Wales, attracting more than 4 million people from across Great Britain between July and September last year. The World Economic Forum has recently ranked the UK fifth in Europe in its travel and tourism competitiveness index.

[Albert Owen]

Our near neighbours, the Republic of Ireland, and most other European countries have reduced the level of value added tax in the tourism sector, boosting jobs, growth and investment in their countries. The United Kingdom and Wales are among those with the highest rates of VAT in Europe, and, according to an independent inquiry, that has led to the suppression of jobs and investment. Will the Secretary of State lobby the Treasury to ensure that we have a competitive rate of VAT and that we reduce VAT, which is a tax on jobs?

[Mr Jones]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is as happy as I am that tourism expenditure in Wales increased by £746 million over the past year. The United Kingdom is highly competitive in the tourism market. As I said in my initial answer, the World Economic Forum has indicated that the UK is the fifth most competitive economy in Europe, ahead of France, Portugal and Italy.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

As in Scotland, VAT on tourism in Wales has a negative effect on the industry. Will he press his Treasury colleagues to ensure a reduction from 20% to 5%, as requested in yesterday’s debate in Westminster Hall, to benefit very scenic constituencies like mine and Carmarthen East and Dinefwr?

[Mr Jones]

I am hugely grateful to the hon. Gentleman for the interest he shows in the Welsh tourism industry. I invite him to visit Wales and see what a competitive product we have there.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

11. How many people in Wales benefited from the recent reduction in the additional rate of income tax.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Approximately 4,000 people in Wales pay the additional rate of income tax.

[Susan Elan Jones]

I thank the Secretary of State for that brief response. In his maiden speech as a Member of the Welsh Assembly, the right hon. Gentleman said, “We have no tax-raising powers—long may that state of affairs continue.” As someone who supported the Assembly having tax-levying powers in the 1997 referendum, I find that view extraordinary. Surely the reason he now wants income tax to be devolved to Wales is to cut public services and cut taxes for the rich.

[Mr Jones]

Rather than concentrating on what I said in 2002, the hon. Lady ought to listen to what her hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) said only last week. The Labour Government in Wales do not want income tax devolved to Wales, but the Conservative and Liberal Democrat coalition Government here in Westminster do.

[Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab)]

13. What assessment he has made of changes in real wages in Wales since 2010; and if he will make a statement.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 8th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

1. If he will estimate the cumulative real-terms change to the Welsh block grant over the present Parliament.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

On what is a sad morning for the House, I am sure that colleagues on both sides would also wish me to mention the passing in December of the right hon. Lord Roberts of Conwy, who served the Welsh Office with such distinction for so many years. He was a doughty champion for Wales and the Welsh language, and I am sure that many Members on both sides will regret his passing.

The protections placed on health and education have insulated the Welsh Government’s resource budget from the extent of reductions faced by many UK Departments. In addition, the Welsh Government’s capital budget will increase in real terms by 8.4% next year and 2.4% the year after.

[Mrs Moon]

Does the Secretary of State not recognise that the Welsh Government’s budget has been cut by 10% since 2010—a cut of £1.6 billion? Their capital budget to date has been cut by a third, which has impacted horrendously on front-line services. In my Bridgend constituency alone, that has meant £30 million-worth of cuts in front-line services. Does the Secretary of State not recognise the damage of these cuts to the people of Wales?

[Mr Jones]

All parts of the United Kingdom are having to bear their part in repairing the economic damage that was sustained as a result of the downturn in 2008. However, I am sure the hon. Lady would recognise that since 2010 the United Kingdom Government have provided an additional £737 million to the Welsh Government, and it is up to the Welsh Government to live within their means.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

Given that the UK Government have given extra money in cash terms to the Welsh Assembly in the form of its block grant, does the Secretary of State find it as extraordinary as I do that the Welsh Assembly has imposed drastic cuts on local authorities across Wales that are bound to lead to increases in council taxes and reductions in public services?

[Mr Jones]

That is ultimately a matter for the Welsh Government, but it is noteworthy that, whereas council taxpayers in England are benefiting from a council tax freeze, that is not happening in Wales. Perhaps that is something the Welsh Government should be attending to.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

May I first associate myself fully with the words of tribute to the late, greatly respected right hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Paul Goggins), and to the late Lord Roberts of Conwy?

I am sure that the Secretary of State will agree that reform of the Barnett formula is still an issue about which we are all very concerned. We in Plaid Cymru have campaigned about it for more than 25 years. It is interesting that the Labour party is now in favour of reforming Barnett, which it did nothing about for 13 years. In fact, when it was in government, it denied the existence of the problem. Does the right hon. Gentleman have any views on that issue?

[Mr Jones]

It is generally recognised that the Barnett formula does not have an indefinite duration. However, it is the priority of this Government to ensure that the public finances are stabilised, and that is what we intend to do.

[Mr Llwyd]

Which does the right hon. Gentleman think is worse—the self-serving preconditions set by the Labour party to block further devolution, or the failure of his Government to propose the full tax-varying powers contained in the cross-party Silk commission recommendations?

[Mr Jones]

I would always be the first to condemn the self-serving nature of the Labour party.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

Barnett consequentials and, indeed, funding from the European Union have been key components of spending in Wales for many years. What representations has the Secretary of State made about Barnett consequentials and European funding to address the devastation that has occurred in recent days along the Welsh coast, not least in Ceredigion, but also in the constituencies of many other hon. Members?

[Mr Jones]

I have had many conversations with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. Clearly, Aberystwyth has suffered extreme damage as a consequence of the storms of the past few days, and I assure my hon. Friend that, if any additional funding is provided, Barnett consequentials will follow in the usual manner.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

2. What assessment he has made of job prospects in the renewables sector in Wales.

--- Later in debate ---

[Martin Caton (Gower) (Lab)]

4. If he will publish an impact assessment of the effect of the draft Wales Bill on cross-border areas.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

The Government published a summary impact assessment with the draft Wales Bill, which examines the effects of the Bill’s provisions on cross-border areas. We intend to introduce the Bill in the fourth Session, subject to agreement of the fourth Session programme, and a full impact assessment will accompany the Bill on introduction.

[Martin Caton]

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer, but the draft Bill provides for a lock-step approach to varying income tax bands, against the wishes of all political parties in the Assembly and against the advice of the Silk commission. The reason given is concern about overall progressivity in the UK tax system. Will the Secretary of State elaborate on what he means by progressivity and say why he is adopting that approach?

[Mr Jones]

As the Government have made clear, they believe that the progressivity of the UK tax system should remain at Westminster. That is why those provisions have been inserted in the draft Bill.

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

15. One damaging consequence of devolution has been the abandonment of investment in cross-border road improvement in mid-Wales because the Department for Transport—quite reasonably—sees no economic benefit to England in improving access to mid-Wales. In the response to the Silk commission report, will my right hon. Friend rectify that damaging consequence of devolution for mid-Wales?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is quite right, and cross-border road routes are one unfortunate consequence of devolution, in that no overarching arrangement is in place. I have specifically asked the Silk commission to consider that issue, and I hope that it will address it in its report.

[Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

I am sure that the Secretary of State will agree that certainty on taxation policy is key to boosting economic confidence in Wales. Although he has told us of his vision to use the Wales Bill for a 1p cut to all income tax bands in Wales, the leader of the Conservative party in Wales has said that he would cut only the top band of tax. Will the Secretary of State clear up that complete muddle about his Government’s position on taxation in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

We have made it absolutely clear that we believe a competitive Welsh economy would depend to a large extent on a competitive rate of tax. However, I must remind the hon. Lady that devolution of income tax is a matter for the Welsh Government, in that it would be the Welsh Government who would have to put forward a referendum to the Welsh Assembly.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

5. What recent assessment he has made of the potential effect of the roll-out of universal credit on people in Wales.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

This Government are investing more in transport infrastructure in Wales than any other in the last century, and Wales is set to benefit directly and indirectly from almost £2 billion of investment. I will be meeting my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport next week to see how we can take this investment further.

[Stephen Mosley]

Like me, the Secretary of State is a regular user of the Holyhead branch of the west coast main line. The Department for Transport is setting up a taskforce to look at electrification of the line between Crewe and Chester. Does he agree that the taskforce should look beyond Chester and consider electrifying the north Wales main line?

[Mr Jones]

I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. The proposed hub for High Speed 2 at Crewe would considerably strengthen the case for electrification of the railway line beyond Crewe and, I would hope, as far as Holyhead.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

One of the most important pieces of transport infrastructure for Wales is the Severn bridge. After decades, tolls have now gone up again: £6.40 for motorists, and double and treble that for vans and lorries. Is it not time to recognise, after all these decades, that this tax on the south Wales economy is a toll too far?

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman will know that the franchise of Severn crossings will continue until 2017-18. After that, the maintenance of the bridge will have to be considered, but I know that the Department for Transport is keenly aware of the issues he raises.

[Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con)]

14. Good transport links are essential to provide opportunities for investment into Wales. Will my right hon. Friend update the House on the discussions he has had with the Welsh Assembly Government on updating road and rail links into north Wales, especially upgrading the A55?

[Mr Jones]

I have regular discussions with both the Welsh Government and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport on this issue. A business case is already being worked up, I hope, for electrification of the north Wales coast line, and I have already referred to the issue of roads.

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

When it comes to the Wrexham-Bidston line, the Secretary of State is all talk and no action. When can we expect some action?

[Mr Jones]

It is rather rich of the hon. Gentleman to say that. In 13 years, his Government did absolutely nothing about that line. He should be aware that we already have a taskforce looking at this issue, and I hope the business case will be developed shortly.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

8. What discussions he has had with the First Minister on increasing tourism opportunities in Newport in the light of the NATO summit in Celtic Manor in 2014.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Hosting the NATO summit in Newport later this year allows us to showcase Wales on a global stage, and I—and the First Minister, I am sure—will do everything possible to ensure that Wales capitalises on the tourism opportunities it should bring.

[Paul Flynn]

The delegates will be guests in what is probably the best hotel in Britain, the Celtic Manor. Will they have the chance to visit the other major attractions of Newport—the Roman remains at Caerleon, the magnificent transporter bridge and the splendid Tredegar house—so that they can have a rich and unforgettable experience in Newport?

[Mr Jones]

I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman that Newport—and, indeed, the whole of south-east Wales—has a huge amount to offer. As I have said, I believe that the NATO summit will do a massive amount to showcase that part of Wales to the whole world.

The Prime Minister was asked—

Oral Answers to Questions

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 20th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

3. What plans he has to encourage growth in the small and medium-sized enterprise sector in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Small and medium-sized enterprises are vital to the economy in Wales and, indeed, the UK as a whole. That is why we have launched the Business is Great campaign, focusing on how we can further support these thriving businesses.

[Mr Bellingham]

I agree with the Secretary of State that small businesses in the Principality and across the country are the lifeblood of the economy. Considerable moves have been made already on the tax front and in lifting burdensome regulations. What more can he do, working with the Welsh Government, further to enhance wealth creation and the job-generating power of small businesses?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that SMEs are the backbone of the Welsh economy, and we are keen to do all we can to encourage them. That is why we have initiated the StartUp loans scheme, which has already lent about £50 million to more than 9,000 new businesses. With effect from this October, working with the Welsh Government, we have announced the scheme’s roll-out to Wales, so that any Welsh entrepreneur with a good idea can come forward and apply for a loan.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

The Secretary of State will know that SMEs in Dwyfor Meirionnydd are doing their best to thrive in the face of coalition austerity, as he visited the first ever Meirionnydd day the week before last. I thank him for attending it. However, the economic situation outside London is far different from down here, so why not make the National Insurance Contributions Bill, which is currently going through the House, apply everywhere outside London and south-east England, thereby mirroring a move in the Government’s emergency Budget of 2010?

[Mr Jones]

I did, indeed, enjoy my visit to the Meirionnydd day that the right hon. Gentleman held, and I was very impressed by the positive attitude of SMEs from his constituency. He will know that the national insurance contributions employment allowance will benefit 35,000 businesses across Wales by a total of £50 million, with 20,000 of those businesses being taken out employer national insurance contributions altogether, which I would have thought his constituents welcomed.

[Mr Llwyd]

Welsh exports were down by just under £1 billion over the past 12 months, which is the biggest fall in any UK nation or English region. What discussions is the Secretary of State having with the Chancellor to ensure that the Welsh producing economy, which is comprised mainly of SMEs, is not paying the price for a growing service and finance economy centred on London and the south-east?

[Mr Jones]

We are anxious to ensure that as many SMEs as possible export. That is a good reason for Welsh SMEs to utilise the services of UK Trade & Investment. UKTI has global reach and is available to every business, including those in Wales. I encourage the right hon. Gentleman to encourage his constituents to seek the services it offers.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

The extension of the StartUp loans scheme to Wales is fantastic news for budding entrepreneurs across the nation. Will the Secretary of State join me in calling on the enterprise agencies, such as Business in Focus, which serves the Vale of Glamorgan, to co-ordinate their activities in a campaign to get more people to start their own businesses?

[Mr Jones]

Indeed; we need more entrepreneurs in Wales to set up their own businesses. The roll-out of the StartUp loans scheme to Wales is extremely good news. It was done in co-operation with the Welsh Government and I was pleased to see their entirely positive attitude to it.

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Swansea accepts that Hull, coming out of the shadows, not Swansea, continuing to shine, was named the UK city of culture for 2017. Does the Secretary of State agree that to maximise the growth of SMEs, we need to keep the momentum of the bid going, maximise the opportunity of the Dylan Thomas centenary and confirm Swansea as the city of culture of Wales?

[Mr Jones]

I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman. While I congratulate Hull, I was bitterly disappointed that Swansea did not get the accolade of city of culture. Nevertheless, Swansea’s bid was an extremely good one and the networks that were built up can form a good platform for future enterprises. I agree that the Dylan Thomas centenary is a massive opportunity for Swansea.

[Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) (Con)]

4. What assessment he has made of the potential effect on the Welsh economy of upgrading the M4 motorway.

[Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)]

6. What assessment he has made of the potential effect on Wales of upgrading the M4 motorway.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Upgrading the M4 is a key priority for the Government and for businesses in Wales. That is why we are enabling the Welsh Government to use their existing limited borrowing powers to begin work on upgrading the motorway as soon as possible.

[Bill Wiggin]

Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that he will continue to persuade his colleagues in the Welsh Government to work hard to ensure that there are improvements to the M4 around Newport?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. That infrastructure improvement has long been called for, particularly by the CBI. An upgrade is grossly overdue. We have given the Welsh Assembly Government the borrowing powers that they need. We hope and expect that they will proceed with the upgrade as quickly as possible.

[Andrew Selous]

Is it the case that although funding to upgrade the M4 around Newport may not have been available in the past, the Government’s recent agreement to increase the borrowing powers of the Welsh Government means that the upgrade can now go ahead?

[Mr Jones]

Yes, indeed. The Welsh Government have already started the consultation process. I repeat that this is a massively important infrastructure improvement and we expect them to proceed with it as quickly as possible.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

One of my earliest memories is cramming into the back of my dad’s Ford Anglia in 1966 with my two sisters and my brother, and crossing the original M4 Severn crossing. Forty-seven years later, it costs £6.20 for a car, £12.40 for a van and £18.60 for a heavy goods vehicle. The second Severn crossing was built 17 years ago. Is it not time that we improved the Welsh economy by getting rid of those burdensome tolls?

[Mr Jones]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the tolls are a major impediment to businesses in south Wales. Having said that, these are important pieces of infrastructure that assist the south Wales economy immensely. As he will know, the franchise ends in 2017-18. At that time, we will look at ways to reduce the cost of crossing the Severn.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

8. Businesses and commuters have given a warm welcome to the announcement about the M4 relief road that was made by the Prime Minister and his deputy. Given that, what does the Secretary of State make of the headline in the South Wales Evening Post on Monday, which suggested that the Liberal Democrats in Wales oppose that vital piece of infrastructure?

[Mr Jones]

Having spoken to certain other Liberal Democrats, I can say that they are entirely in favour of the proposal. Both the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime and Minister are united in wanting to see the road upgraded.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

5. When he plans to bring forward legislative proposals to give the Welsh Government borrowing powers.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Our detailed response to the Silk Commission’s recommendations, which we published on Monday, confirmed that we will include proposals in a draft Wales Bill to give the Welsh Government borrowing powers. We will publish the draft Bill, for pre-legislative scrutiny, in the current parliamentary Session.

[Susan Elan Jones]

I welcome the fact that, after a year’s wait, we finally have a statement from the Secretary of State, but I would like to press him further, as he speaks of details. When will we know the basis on which the Welsh capital borrowing limits will be calculated? There is a precedent in the Scotland Act. Why will he not just say that he will follow that?

[Mr Jones]

I make no apologies for ensuring that the proposal was properly scrutinised. The package we announced is good for Wales and I am glad that it was welcomed by the Welsh Government, who will have new borrowing powers. The borrowing limit that will apply to those powers will be commensurate with the Welsh Government’s access to independent streams of funding to repay the borrowing they incur. The details will be placed on the face of the draft Bill when it is published.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

If the National Assembly for Wales is going to have borrowing powers, and if it is going to smell like a Parliament and look like a Parliament, is it not time that it became the National Parliament of Wales?

[Mr Jones]

I am not entirely sure how a Parliament smells.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Noisy and discordant conversations are taking place in the Chamber. I am sure I am not alone in wanting to hear the Secretary of State’s answer to the hon. Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant).

[Mr Jones]

We have no plans to change the name of the Welsh Assembly.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

In Monday’s statement, the Secretary of State closely tied in borrowing powers with the income tax sharing arrangement between the UK and the Welsh Government. Will he confirm that the proposed sunset clause on the referendum has been dropped?

[Mr Jones]

We have no proposals to put a sunset clause in the Bill.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

7. What steps the Government are taking to increase the number of people in Wales who earn a living wage.

--- Later in debate ---

[Karl MᶜCartney (Lincoln) (Con)]

9. What assessment he has made of the potential effect on the Welsh economy of varying the current level of taxation in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

The power to vary tax is an important way of driving economic growth and ensuring that Governments are accountable for the way they spend money. We will devolve certain taxes to the Welsh Assembly and Welsh Government and provide for a referendum, so that people in Wales can decide whether some of their income tax should be devolved, as in Scotland.

[Karl MᶜCartney]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer. Could he explain what role devolving stamp duty land tax will play in stimulating the housing market in Wales, including in rural places such as Llanbedr Pont Steffan? Does he agree that the expansion of the Help to Buy scheme—

[Karl MᶜCartney]

Will the scheme help not only aspiring home owners in Wales, but my constituents in Lincoln?

[Mr Jones]

Devolution of stamp duty land tax should be an important tool in the armoury of the Welsh Assembly Government when addressing the issue of borrowing, but one would hope that they would seek to maximise the tax take by being inventive and adopting lower rates.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

What substantive planning is the Secretary of State doing for the Welsh economy to take full advantage of the benefits that Scottish independence will bring to these islands in the coming years? Surely tax-varying powers are the minimum requirement in Wales, so that it, too, will benefit in the way that Scotland will benefit in the years to come.

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman will understand that that is not an eventuality that I expect, and neither does the First Minister of Wales, who I am glad to see is in Scotland today, making the case for the UK being better together.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

On Monday, we heard in this House the Secretary of State commit his party to cutting a penny off income tax for taxpayers in Wales, including millionaires. I am sure he did not pluck that figure out of thin air; I am sure he consulted the Treasury. Will he therefore tell us what the precise cost to the Welsh budget will be of his proposed tax cut?

[Mr Jones]

The point I made was that a cut of one penny in the pound would do a tremendous amount to stimulate the Welsh economy. Let me repeat what I said to the hon. Gentleman on Monday. We in the Conservative party are ambitious for the people of Wales. We want to see the Welsh economy growing; he wants a Welsh economy reliant on handouts. That is the difference between our parties.

[Owen Smith]

No, the difference is that I want some answers. I assume from the Secretary of State’s answer that he did not consult the Chancellor and does not know how much the proposal will cost the Welsh budget, so let me help him out. The static effect is £200 million, or the equivalent of 5,000 teachers in Wales, so will he tell us which services he would propose cutting to pay for that tax pledge?

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman clearly does not get it. The issue of whether income tax should be devolved will be in the hands of the Welsh people. It will be up to the Welsh Assembly Government to make the decision to trigger that referendum. For our part, we want them to trigger that referendum, to call it, to elect for a lower rate of tax and to give Wales the competitive edge that so far it lacks under the Labour Welsh Assembly Government.

[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

10. What assessment he has made of the potential economic effect of the proposed new prison in north Wales.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 9th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con)]

1. What recent assessment he has made of the effects of the Government’s economic policies on Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Our economic strategy is designed to equip Wales and the United Kingdom with the tools they need to succeed in the global race, and to secure a stronger economy and a fairer society.

[Karen Lumley]

With the deficit down by a third and employment at record levels, does the Secretary of State agree that it is time for the Labour party to admit that our economic policy is working, not only in Redditch, but in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

Indeed, it is working in Wales and in Redditch. There are clear signs that the economy is turning the corner. I am sure that all Members were pleased with yesterday’s forecast by the International Monetary Fund, which revised UK growth for next year up from 1.5% to 1.9%.

[Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab)]

I put it to the Secretary of State that all economies recover from all recessions at some point, but that our recovery has come three years after those of Germany and the United States because his Government’s savage cuts turned Labour’s growth and recovery from the banking crisis in 2010 into three years of austerity. The current recovery is made in the south-east for the south-east. In Wales, there is no housing bubble, long-term unemployment is dire, as is under-employment, and personal debt is high. We need investment in Wales. His Government should be supporting the Labour Welsh Government, not hindering them with budget cuts the whole time.

[Mr Jones]

It is rather rich for the right hon. Gentleman, who was a member of the Government who presided over the economic crash in 2008, to criticise this Government for the steps that we are taking to turn the economy around. Wales, as much as every other part of the country, is benefiting from the measures that we have taken. There are 67,000 more people in work than at the time of the last election. He should welcome that.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that our excellent national economic policies are being held back by the Welsh Assembly’s inward investment policies, which have led to a fall in inward investment in Wales? Wales has gone from being one of the top creators of inward investment to one of the lowest as a result of those policies.

[Mr Jones]

There were modest improvements recently, but it is the case that the Welsh Assembly Government should give serious consideration to reinstating a body like the Welsh Development Agency, which was so successful.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Wales urgently needs job creation levers to boost our economy, as the Council for Economic Renewal said today. Last week, in an interview with Adrian Masters of ITV Cymru Wales, the Prime Minister refused to commit to a response from the UK Government to part 1 of the Silk commission before next year’s Scottish referendum. Why are the Secretary of State and the Prime Minister holding back the Welsh economy?

[Mr Jones]

As I have just said, the Welsh economy is growing. As the hon. Gentleman knows, we recently held a consultation on the devolution of stamp duty land tax. We are considering the responses and will make a formal response in due course.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

13. Housing construction is an important element of economic renewal and regeneration, and the Help to Buy scheme in England will make a significant impact in encouraging home ownership and new build. The situation in Wales is more confused. Will my right hon. Friend encourage the Welsh Government to follow the English model as closely as possible? Otherwise, we will run the risk that lenders will not be available to lend in Wales.

[Mr Jones]

I was pleased that the Welsh Government recently announced a form of Help to Buy, and I hope, as my hon. Friend says, that they will align their policies with those of the United Kingdom Government to ensure that the recovery is spread across England and Wales.

[Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

The Government’s economic policies are leaving people in Wales struggling to make ends meet. With average energy bills up £300 since 2010, does the Secretary of State support Labour’s plans to freeze energy prices?

[Mr Jones]

I am not entirely sure what those plans are, and I would be interested to hear about them from the hon. Lady. In fact, they unravelled less than 24 hours after the announcement. Under the previous Government we had 10 years of incoherence in energy policy, and as a consequence this Government have to take the necessary steps to keep the lights on.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

2. What assessment he has made of the value of exports to the economy in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

The Government recognise the importance of exports to the economy. I was pleased to welcome the chief executive of UK Trade & Investment, Nick Baird, to Cardiff last month to underline the support that UKTI can offer to businesses in Wales.

[Neil Carmichael]

That is further proof that the Government are taking action to increase exports, but what steps will the Secretary of State take to ensure that Britain and Wales continue to benefit from opportunities in Europe by trading through and to Europe?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is right. Wales is largely a country of small and medium-sized enterprises, and if more SMEs were to export at the European rate, that would wipe out the trade deficit altogether. I strongly encourage Welsh companies to engage closely with UKTI, as it has global reach and is able to maximise opportunities throughout Europe and the rest of the world.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

What impact does the Secretary of State think that uncertainty over the UK’s role in the European Union—uncertainty created by his Government—will have on exports from Wales?

[Mr Jones]

I am sure the hon. Gentleman engages closely with his constituents and will know there is general dissatisfaction with the current settlement in Europe. We think our position in Europe should be renegotiated, and it is right to take sufficient time over that negotiation. At the end of that period, by 2017, we will put the issue of whether Britain should be a member of the European Union to the people of this country in an in/out referendum.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

All constituent parts of the UK ran trade surpluses in 2012—all except England. That puts paid to the caricature of Welsh business as failing in some way, and the surplus from Wales was £5 billion in 2012. What can be done to encourage micro-businesses such as those in my constituency to understand the value of exports and the opportunities they offer in the face of austerity from this Government, and indifference and incompetence from the Government in Cardiff?

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that Welsh businesses have been successful, but we want them to be even more successful. I therefore encourage Welsh businesses of whatever size to engage closely with UKTI, which as I said has global reach and is in the best position to maximise opportunities throughout the world.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

3. What assessment he has made of wage levels in Wales since 2010.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

5. What recent assessment he has made of the potential costs and benefits of High Speed 2 to Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

The Wales Office is committed to ensuring Wales derives the maximum possible benefit from HS2. In addition to improved journey times and extra rail capacity that passengers across the nation will experience, my Department will be working closely with Lord Deighton’s HS2 growth task force to identify further benefits to Wales.

[Mr Llwyd]

With respect, that is not a good answer considering the Minister knew of this question three or four weeks ago. Is there a robust cost-benefit analysis of this whole fantastical project?

[Mr Jones]

The cost-benefit analysis indicates that there will be a positive impact of £15 billion, in which Wales will be a full participant.

[Mr Llwyd]

With some spending projections for this vanity project topping £80 billion, will the Secretary of State commit to fighting for a Barnett consequential equivalent for Wales, which could be between £3 billion and £4 billion and make a huge difference to the Welsh rail network? Will he join his predecessor, the right hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan), in pleading this case, as reported today in the Western Mail?

[Mr Jones]

I think the right hon. Gentleman knows what my answer will be: HS2 is a UK-wide project from which every part of the United Kingdom will benefit. He is a north Wales MP. He knows that north Wales will benefit from improved journey times to London via the hub at Crewe, he knows that mid-Wales will benefit from travel times via Birmingham, and he knows that south Wales will benefit from connections at Old Oak Common. Of course it will be of national benefit.

[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

Last week, the Welsh Government announced the reopening of the second line between Wrexham and Chester. Does my right hon. Friend agree that such investment in rail infrastructure, including HS2, has a massive role to play in encouraging economic growth in north-east Wales and west Cheshire?

[Mr Jones]

Yes. I was pleased that the Welsh Government reversed their decision not to redouble the line between Chester and Wrexham. It plays an important part in the business case for north Wales electrification, which I am sure all Members would welcome.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

14. The £44 million of Labour investment in the Wrexham-Chester line is not a reversal of the decision; it is part of continued investment to improve the network in north-east Wales. I know the right hon. Gentleman is interested in this issue. Will he meet me to explore specifically how HS2 will link to the new development in the rail network in north-east Wales to benefit the area?

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman knows that I am always delighted to meet him to discuss rail matters. In fact, I invited him to a meeting only a few months ago to discuss the electrification of the Wrexham to Bidston line. I am entirely happy to keep meeting him.

[Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con)]

Is there not a real danger that the economies of north Wales and northern England could be left behind if we rely solely on the existing north-south rail lines, which, by all predictions, will be full to capacity by the mid-2020s?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is entirely right: it is a question not just of speed, but of capacity. In his area, journey times from Leeds to London will be reduced by about 60 minutes, which I am sure we would all welcome.

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

6. What recent assessment he has made of the effects in Wales of changes to housing benefit.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Herefordshire) (Con)]

7. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Transport about capital investment in the Cardiff to Manchester railway line.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

I regularly meet my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport to discuss rail infrastructure priorities for Wales, and I am meeting him again soon. I will raise the important link that my hon. Friend mentions as part of that discussion.

[Jesse Norman]

The new enterprise zone at Rotherwas in Herefordshire offers a superb opportunity to reopen the rail link to Hereford and establish a parkway station, which would assist local people and the many Welsh people who work in my county. Will the Secretary of State support those plans?

[Mr Jones]

The Herefordshire enterprise zone is extremely important, and my hon. Friend will know that the important thing with rail infrastructure improvement is to build up a coherent business case. I will certainly raise this matter with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport when I meet him, and my hon. Friend’s question will form an important part of that business case.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

May I take this opportunity to support the suggestion from the hon. Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman) and to ask the Secretary of State to ensure that he reiterates the importance of the electrification of the railway line to south Wales from London and of the valley lines? Will he take the opportunity to do that now?

[Mr Jones]

Yes, indeed. The announcement that we made last year is still very much on track, and we are hoping that the link to Swansea will be completed by 2018. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There are far too many persistent and very noisy conversations taking place in the Chamber. I know that colleagues will want to listen to Susan Elan Jones.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

8. What assessment he has made of the potential effects on charities in Wales of the provisions of the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

The Government have published impact assessments to accompany the three parts of the Bill. The assessment for part 2, which covers non-party campaigning, evaluates the potential effects of the proposals on third parties in the United Kingdom.

[Susan Elan Jones]

With respect, is not that answer a complete load of nonsense? The Wales Council for Voluntary Action has said that the Government’s proposals are entirely unworkable and undemocratic. Is there any serious charitable or faith group that agrees with the Government on this mess of a Bill?

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Lady is making a point that has already been made, and that argument has now been discounted. She will know that the Government have tabled amendments to the Bill and have now reverted to the wording of the existing legislation, which defines controlled expenditure as expenditure that can

“reasonably be regarded as intended to promote or procure the electoral success of a party or candidate”.

That is precisely the same wording as applied in 2005 and 2010, so her fears are entirely unfounded.

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

10. What assessment he has made of the effects of the under-occupancy penalty in Wales.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

10. What recent assessment he has made of the role and importance of the aviation sector in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

The aviation sector is vital to the Welsh economy, and I was pleased to see so many Welsh businesses represented at the Paris air show last month.

[Laura Sandys]

Does the Secretary of State agree that the UK’s overall aviation strategy is there to support more jobs, exciting top-end engineering and ensuring we have a strong technology base in this country?

[Mr Jones]

Yes, the United Kingdom aerospace industry is the second largest in the world, and is by far the largest in Europe, and it contributes some £24 billion per annum to the UK economy. The Government have set out our strategic vision for the UK’s civil aerospace sector in the aerospace industrial strategy, which includes Government investment of £2 billion over the next seven years.

[Karen Lumley]

Does my right hon. Friend think it is a good use of taxpayers’ money to buy Cardiff International airport?

[Mr Jones]

That is entirely a matter for the Welsh Assembly Government, who have purchased it at a cost of £52 million. Clearly Cardiff does need an international airport, and I very much hope it will develop under the Welsh Government’s tutelage.

[Stephen Mosley]

I am sure my right hon. Friend is aware of the new terminal being built at Chester Hawarden airport in the constituency of the hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami), which will cater for small planes carrying up to 50 passengers. What benefits does my right hon. Friend foresee for north-east Wales, and for Chester as well, from having direct flights to Cardiff, across the UK, and to continental Europe?

[Mr Jones]

I was very pleased to see that a service is being developed at Hawarden airport. It will clearly be extremely important to north-east Wales and the two enterprise zones at Deeside and Wirral Waters.

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

At the last Welsh questions, the Secretary of State was asked whether he thought Airbus jobs would be safer if the UK was outside the EU. He failed to answer that question. Will he answer it now?

[Mr Jones]

The issue of a referendum on Europe has, of course, yet to be determined. Consultation will take place with all sectors of industry, aviation included.

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

Constituents have visited my surgery expressing concern at the potential closure of 71 Inspection and Repair Squadron at St Athan, with the loss of 75 highly skilled jobs in the aviation sector that are based at the station there. Will the Secretary of State talk to the Ministry of Defence to explain how the defence footprint, particularly in highly skilled aviation jobs in Wales, is shrinking? Will they make sure that that does not happen?

[Mr Jones]

I am, clearly, happy to raise the hon. Lady’s concerns with the MOD, but when I visited the British Airways maintenance centre at Cardiff airport only a few weeks ago I was impressed by the fact that a large number of workers there were former RAF employees.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that membership of the European Union is an essential precondition of the continued success of the UK arm of Airbus?

[Mr Jones]

These issues fall to be considered in the debate about whether we should have a referendum on the European Union.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

3. What discussions he has had with (a) his ministerial colleagues and (b) Ministers in the Welsh Government on improvements to the M4 motorway.

--- Later in debate ---

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

6. What discussions he has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the effect of the spending review on Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

I have had a number of discussions with the Chancellor on the spending review. This Government are investing in Wales. The announcement of the £250-million new prison in north Wales will create much-needed jobs for the region and further boost economic growth.

[Albert Owen]

Missing from the spending review was real investment in Welsh ports and Welsh infrastructure to those ports. Wales has already lost out under this Government on ports, which are the gateways to Wales. They could regenerate sectors such as energy and, thus, make places such as Holyhead world leaders. When will this Secretary of State stand up for Welsh ports and make sure that we get a level playing field for this energy development, which includes marine, tidal, onshore wind, offshore wind and nuclear power, which Plaid Cymru does not support?

[Mr Jones]

I regularly visit ports across Wales and am well aware of the importance of Holyhead port to the economy. The hon. Gentleman is quite right that we need better connectivity with the ports, on which I am pressing my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport, and I am raising it with the Welsh Government.

[Geraint Davies]

The austerity audit published in the Financial Times found that the average working Welsh adult would lose £549 a year from the cuts compared with just £470 for an adult in England. Given that, why is the lion’s share of investment in infrastructure plans in London and the south-east, with no high-speed rail to Wales and no capital investment? Will he fight for a fair share of investment as well as an unfair share of cuts?

[Mr Jones]

I strongly refute the hon. Gentleman’s suggestion that Wales has somehow been short-changed: the investment in railways is very significant, with electrification right through to Swansea; in north Wales, we have a new prison; and we have new nuclear on Wylfa. The hon. Gentleman should also remember that as a result of our tax changes the average taxpayer in Wales is some £750 per annum better off.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State join me in welcoming the decision to protect funding for S4C in the recent spending review?

[Mr Jones]

Absolutely. S4C is extremely important to the cultural life of Wales. It is the only Welsh language channel in the whole world and its value to Wales cannot be overstated.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

Further to that answer, will the Secretary of State reiterate the importance of that decision for the independent television production sector in Wales, which is critical for many of our local economies?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point. The independent production sector in Wales is not only innovative but extremely important to the Welsh economy and I am sure it was very relieved by the Government’s announcement last week.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

As the Secretary of State will know, total pay in Wales has fallen by 8% since 2007, one of the biggest falls in living standards in Europe. The spending review will not help the Welsh economy very much, taking a further £1 billion out of the Welsh economy—and the Labour party has now signed up to that. It is for Ynys Môn to decide whether it wants Labour cuts or Conservative cuts. Which does the Secretary of State think would be appropriate?

[Mr Jones]

I will make no apologies for the way in which the Government have treated the interests of Wales since we came to power. We have seen more infrastructure investment in Wales under this Government than under 13 years of Labour and I am proud of the support we are giving to Welsh families and the Welsh economy.

[Mr Llwyd]

The IMF—the high priests of austerity—said that the Government should cut less and start spending more on infrastructure projects. The re-announcement of HS2 last week was sort of welcome, but the cost has gone up to £50 billion. Is the Secretary of State satisfied that Wales will not be given the £2.5 billion consequential?

[Mr Jones]

HS2 is a United Kingdom project and both north and mid-Wales will benefit from it. I know that the right hon. Gentleman uses the north Wales line regularly, so I presume that he will support our campaign for electrification of that route.

[Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)]

In the spending review, the Chancellor made a significant announcement about capital expenditure. What steps is the Secretary of State taking to ensure that we in Wales get the appropriate proportion of that capital infrastructure spend?

[Mr Jones]

I believe that Wales has had more than a fair share of capital expenditure announced. Let me reiterate: the electrification of the south Wales and valley lines, the north Wales prison and the commitment to support new nuclear through guarantees.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

The reality is that since 2010 the Welsh budget has been cut in real terms by £1.7 billion, or 11%, yet on Welsh television last week the Secretary of State for Wales said that Wales had “got off lightly”. I know that the right hon. Gentleman is not exactly famed across the House for his humour, but was that meant to be a joke?

[Mr Jones]

Compared with the average cut across Whitehall, which was 8%, and the cut to the Wales Office budget, which was 10%, I would say that the real-terms cut of 1.9% for Wales, because of the protection of the health budget and the education budget, is a good deal.

[Owen Smith]

The answer is clear: Wales is meant to be grateful for this Government’s largesse, but the reality is that on the right hon. Gentleman’s watch, the budget is down £1.7 billion, real wages are down £1,700, 3,000 more people are out of work, 35,000 people are using food banks, 33% of children in Wales are in child poverty and 400,000 people have lost their tax credits. If that is “getting off lightly”, heaven help the most vulnerable in Wales if he and his Government decide to get serious.

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman is in a terrible quandary. On the one hand, he wants to support his Westminster boss and accept coalition spending cuts; on the other, he wants to obey his Cardiff boss who says, “Enough is enough”, and borrow more: one man, two guvnors.

[Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con)]

5. What discussions he has had on the effect of the Government's energy policies on the Welsh economy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

7. What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Justice on the effect of the Government's legal aid proposals in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

I recently met my right hon. Friend the Justice Secretary to discuss matters relating to Wales, including the proposed reforms to criminal legal aid in England and Wales. I have also met Welsh representatives of the legal profession to hear their views on the proposed changes.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

Research by the Monmouthshire Law Society found that law firms serving Gwent would have to make up to 15 members of staff redundant if they lost their criminal legal aid contract. Does the Minister share their belief that these changes are the final nail in high street law firms in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

No, I do not. It is clear that there have to be reductions in legal aid spend, and a consultation is ongoing. Recently, my right hon. Friend the Justice Secretary made it clear that, having listened to representations, he believed that choice is important both to clients and to solicitors, and choice will be incorporated in the final proposals. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There are some very noisy private conversations taking place in the Chamber. Let us hear Mr Chris Ruane.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

The legal aid cuts in my constituency will affect many of my constituents, who will also be affected by the closure of the Rhyl family court, the closure of the Rhyl Army recruitment centre, the closure of the Rhyl tax office and, on top of all that, the closure of the Crown post office. How will that help the regeneration of Rhyl?

[Mr Jones]

With regard to legal aid, I can only reiterate the answer I gave the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans): the Government’s proposals are to ensure that choice is available to clients and solicitors’ firms.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Herefordshire) (Con)]

11. What assessment he has made of the effect of the Welsh Government’s national procurement service on suppliers based in England.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Public sector contracts are an important source of income for many businesses. Although I support efforts to make the procurement of public service contracts more streamlined in Wales, I do not think that should be at the expense of ensuring value for money regardless of where the supplier is located.

[Jesse Norman]

Small businesses in Herefordshire find it increasingly difficult to become accredited suppliers to the Welsh public sector. There is a growing tendency, and indeed a Welsh Government policy, to encourage public organisations to buy Welsh. Does the Secretary of State share my view that public organisations in Wales should not be discouraged from buying from English suppliers and that the Welsh Government should make it very clear that they cannot do so?

[Mr Jones]

I trust that the new public procurement process will be driven by providing value for taxpayers’ money, irrespective of where the business is located. Part of the object of the procurement service is to develop local supply chains, and in many parts of Wales the local economy will include businesses located in England.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State applaud the work of Professor Dermot Cahill of Bangor university, who is working with others and the Welsh Government to increase the number of small and medium-sized enterprises that are now making use of procurement in Wales? Would the right hon. Gentleman not say that, in that regard, Wales is leading the way?

[Mr Jones]

I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, but frankly the word from smaller businesses in Wales is that they are frequently precluded from bidding because of the Welsh procurement process. I hope that will change under the new arrangements.

[Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)]

13. What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for the Home Department on the responsibilities of police and crime commissioners in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

I have discussed the responsibilities of police and crime commissioners with my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary. PCCs are democratically elected and accountable to the communities they serve.

[Wayne David]

Does the Secretary of State share my concern that the former chief constable of Gwent yesterday told a Select Committee of this House that she was bullied out of her job?

[Mr Jones]

I heard what the former chief constable said. I want to reiterate what I said at the last Welsh Grand Committee. I have the highest possible regard for Carmel Napier. Ultimately, however, it must be for the police and crime commissioner to make that decision, and of course he is accountable to Parliament through the Home Affairs Committee.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Does the Secretary of State think that it is desirable that police and crime commissioners should in effect be able to sack police constables on a whim, as has happened in Gwent?

[Mr Jones]

Clearly, the power to dismiss a chief constable is one of the statutory powers given to that officer. However, when it is exercised, the police and crime commissioner must be extremely careful to ensure that the proper procedures are adopted and, furthermore, must understand that he will be accountable to Parliament.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

The evidence we heard yesterday from the chief constable was that she was called in and, out of the blue, the police and crime commissioner said that he would dismiss and humiliate her. That is an extraordinary, menacing and bullying attitude. Are police and crime commissioners the Government’s stupidest policy?

[Mr Jones]

For the first time, democracy has been introduced into the policing of this country, and that must be desirable. I also heard the evidence, and no doubt the Home Affairs Committee will be reporting in due course.

The Prime Minister was asked—