British Sign Language Week

Thursday 20th March 2025 Westminster Hall

13:30

[Sir Desmond Swayne (in the Chair)]

Before we begin, I point out that a British Sign Language interpretation of proceedings is available to watch on parliamentlive.tv. There are also British Sign Language interpreters in the room for the benefit of those watching from the Gallery. I appreciate that some Members will wish to use sign language during their contributions; I ask them to keep that limited and brief, so as not to creation confusion with the other interpretations available.

[Jen Craft (Thurrock) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered British Sign Language Week.

[In British Sign Language: I beg to move, That this House has considered British Sign Language Week.]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Desmond. I thank those who have supported today’s debate: the hon. Members who sponsored my application to the Backbench Business Committee; the members of the newly formed all-party parliamentary group on British Sign Language, who had ideas for how to celebrate Sign Language Week; and the British Deaf Association, which campaigns tirelessly to promote the interests of the deaf community. I am delighted that we have live British Sign Language interpretation today, and I am grateful to the House authorities for supporting it. It means that we are able to have members of the deaf-signing community join us in the Public Gallery. [In British Sign Language: Welcome to Parliament, and I hope you enjoy the debate.]

As the theme of this year’s Sign Language Week captures well, BSL is more than a language. For the 87,000 first-language signers in the UK, it represents culture, community and belonging. It is symbolic of a unique way of life—one that empowers deaf people to overcome the barriers they face from birth. It provides connection, not only in the deaf-signing community, but to their loved ones. Sign language creates special moments that other families might take for granted. The first time a parent tells their deaf child, “I love you,” might be using sign.

My daughter has Down’s syndrome and experiences hearing loss, so my husband and I use sign-supported English, which is a form of BSL, as part of our toolkit to communicate at home. To any BSL first-language speakers who are watching, I am going to attempt some BSL throughout this speech, so my apologies. [In British Sign Language: I am trying.]

It is with a real sense of personal pride that I open this debate. It is an opportunity to celebrate Sign Language Week and the rich culture it commemorates, while discussing how we as MPs can go further to improve access and the inclusion of the BSL community. The progress that has been made to date is testament to the determination of deaf campaigners, but British Sign Language is not a new phenomenon; it has existed for hundreds of years. There are printed accounts of a national language of the hand dating back as far as the 17th century, but it was only in 2003 that BSL was officially recognised as a language, and it was not until the British Sign Language Act 2022 that this nominal recognition was translated on to the statute book, with legal recognition of BSL. I pay tribute to the former Member for West Lancashire, Rosie Cooper, for leading that private Member’s Bill through Parliament.

The Act was a watershed moment in galvanising public support, and Rosie Cooper’s exceptional campaigning has left an enduring legacy. The Act legislated for the promotion and inclusion of BSL in Government, and led to the creation of the BSL advisory board, which has done excellent work to put the experiences and voices of deaf signers at the heart of Government. It placed a duty on Departments to prepare and publish reports on the use of BSL in their communications. From May 2023 to April 2024, BSL activity in Government communications doubled, and the overall number of Government Departments that said they had not produced any BSL communications halved, from 11 to five. However, there is still much further to go. Five Government Departments is still five too many.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

[In British Sign Language: Will my hon. Friend give way?]

[Jen Craft]

I will.

[Chris Vince]

My hon. Friend is giving a passionate and knowledgeable speech. Does she agree that, in terms of Parliament, this is a question of accessibility? We want people with BSL as their first language to be able to not only access politics but be a part of it as well.

[Jen Craft]

[In British Sign Language: I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention.] As people will see, we have tried to learn some parliamentary signs ahead of this debate. My hon. Friend is absolutely right—it is a question of accessibility. If someone is a British Sign Language first-language speaker, there are barriers to taking part in this House. There absolutely should not be. This is the House of Commons of the United Kingdom. There are 87,000 BSL first-language speakers and they absolutely deserve their place here as much as hearing people do. Too frequently, Government consultations, including on the national health service 10-year plan and the welfare reform Green Paper, have BSL interpretation as an afterthought, if it exists at all.

In wider society, we need to see a renewed focus on the needs and interests of the deaf community. Some 90% of deaf children are born to hearing parents, but support to learn BSL is based on a postcode lottery. Across the country, there is a patchwork of sign language services, with a mix of local authority and third-sector provision. According to research by the National Deaf Children’s Society, almost half of local authorities neither provide, fund nor commission any courses in sign language for families.

[Alison Hume (Scarborough and Whitby) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Desmond. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) on securing this debate.

In 2023-24, 26 children in north Yorkshire were registered with special educational needs due to a hearing impairment, yet support remains inadequate. To show my support for them and for the other children here today, I will now sign my name in BSL. [In British Sign Language: Alison.] Does my hon. Friend agree that deaf children need access to fluent signers as teachers?

[Jen Craft]

I completely agree: deaf children need qualified teachers of the deaf. I thank Mrs Smith, who is in the Public Gallery today—an exceptional teacher of the deaf in my constituency. I come back to the point about the patchwork of sign language provision for parents. There is an estimate that the availability of courses has fallen by 34% in certain areas since before the pandemic.

Parents are often told to access support through adult community colleges. While they provide an excellent grounding in BSL, it is usually irrelevant for the kind of conversations that parents need and want to have with their child. For example, my one-year-old daughter did not really have too much interest in how many brothers and sisters I have, what job I want to do or what my favourite colour is, but the signs for “milk”, “mummy”, “daddy”, “play”, “book” and, most importantly, “biscuit” very much caught her attention.

It is also hard for adults who are not naturally adept in learning languages to learn a completely new language in a way that meets their learning needs. I ask the Minister to work with me, the British Deaf Association and the National Deaf Children’s Society to build a pathway to ensure that parents of deaf children have access to relevant BSL lessons no matter where they grow up.

[Ben Coleman (Chelsea and Fulham) (Lab)]

I am most grateful to my hon. Friend for securing this important debate. I was pleased to see plans for a GCSE in British Sign Language following the passage of the BSL Act, but I am concerned that it has still not been rolled out, even though it is an essential step in promoting BSL, increasing the awareness of those who use it, and helping those who are not themselves deaf in understanding how to use it.

One of the most enjoyable things I was able to attend at the end of last year was an event where lots of primary schools in my borough did a Christmas concert. They all sang in English and signed at the same time. It was one of the most encouraging and inclusive events I have been to in a long time. Does my hon. Friend agree that rolling out the British Sign Language GCSE would create lots more opportunities for deaf people, including in employment, which is a matter very much on our minds at the moment, and that the GCSE should be rolled out without any further delay?

[Jen Craft]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: it is a real shame that the BSL GCSE is not yet part of the curriculum. I understand there are some delays around what a qualification would look like. However, BSL already has a qualification that is agreed by the deaf community and the BSL first-language community. I ask that the Minister goes back to his colleagues in the Department for Education and requests they provide an update on progress, as it is crucial that we have new BSL signers who are confident.

My hon. Friend made a good point about the number of deaf people in employment. Research shows that only 37% of BSL first-language speakers are in work. That is compared to 77% of people who are hearing and without a separate disability. In my constituency, there is no support for BSL first-language speakers to access employment, which is a real shame. That speaks to the experience that BSL first-language speakers and deaf people in general have when they try to access services. They face ongoing challenges in daily life accessing healthcare, employment and a society that often overlooks their needs.

SignHealth, a fantastic organisation that advocates for the needs of deaf people in the healthcare system, says that 67% of deaf people report no accessible method of contacting their GP. The long-term impacts on health and wellbeing are very clear, with deaf people twice as likely to suffer mental health problems as their hearing peers. The deaf community is being held back by a shocking lack of societal understanding of British sign language. Part of that is a lack of awareness that BSL is completely different from spoken English, and that even in written communications there is need for an interpretation.

As parliamentarians, we can be leaders in driving greater understanding of British sign language. Through Parliament and in our constituencies, we can promote the interests of the signing community. Today’s debate is an important signal of our recognition of the needs of BSL first-language speakers. It is the first time ever that live translation is being provided both in the Chamber and broadcast from the studio on parliamentlive.tv. I am now the first MP to have used sign language in a debate in this Parliament, and the first to do so since 2022, I believe.

Next year, I hope to host this debate in the main Chamber, where having live interpreters on the Floor of the House would be unprecedented. I encourage all colleagues from across the House to take advantage of the House’s BSL scheme to learn some BSL, so that they are able to better communicate with the 87,000 BSL first-language speakers. I am sure there are a number in each constituency, so it can only be beneficial. It would be a really big milestone in demonstrating Parliament’s accessibility for deaf signers.

I also hope that in British Sign Language Week next year we can reflect on the progress that will have been made in the intervening months. Nineteen years separated the recognition of BSL as a language and the landmark British Sign Language Act 2022. We cannot wait another 19 years for the next significant step forward. Alongside the British Deaf Association and members of the all-party parliamentary group, I am calling on the Government to go further in promoting BSL.

Ministers need to support the expansion of access to sign language classes. Through national funding, the Government can deliver a universal service of BSL support to the families of deaf children—a national programme of early years intervention that could give every child the opportunity to benefit from BSL. This is about choice. For some parents, the choice to learn BSL may not be the right one, but it is about ensuring that parents have that choice to make. It is about giving deaf children the opportunity to choose their method of communication and the way that works best for them.

[Tessa Munt (Wells and Mendip Hills) (LD)]

I thank the hon. Lady for securing the debate. I am sorry that my British Sign Language is incredibly rusty, having learned it 30 years ago and not having practised diligently. I want to pick up on what she said about access to learning British Sign Language. Having worked in a council as a lead member for children, families and education, it was evident that growing numbers of young people have speech, language and communications difficulties.

If we can capture British Sign Language as a valid language for everybody, and teach our nursery nurses, early learning teachers and teachers right the way through our schools, that will be so much better. As I understand it, British Sign Language can be taken up to a level 6 national vocational qualification, so there is no reason why every child in this country cannot have a second language, even if it is not one of the traditional languages that we would normally recognise in the academic system.

[Jen Craft]

The hon. Lady is quite right that there is a real case for children across the board learning some BSL. We never know—for one child, it might spark a lifelong love of the language. Indeed, I believe there is a young girl in the Public Gallery who has her BSL level 1 qualification and she is still at primary school, which shows what is possible and what can be achieved.

[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

[In British Sign Language: I learned BSL because I created barriers for deaf people, and I wanted to take those down. Is it right that all children learn level 1 at school?]

[Jen Craft]

My hon. Friend is quite right. All children should be offered the opportunity to learn BSL level 1 at school. As she says, it can only help to break down those barriers to the deaf community and open up our society for those who are BSL first-language speakers.

I will conclude because I know that other Members want to speak, and I want to offer everyone the opportunity to practise their BSL if they have learned some—I very much hope they have. Broadly, the Government must embody the maxim “Nothing about us without us” as they continue to improve accessibility for the deaf community. Deaf signers should lead the design, delivery and evaluation of BSL in Government and across public services. We need to see a commitment to truly embed deaf voices in public service delivery and policymaking.

Sign Language Week does not represent a small minority issue. BSL is the fourth most widely used language in the UK. It is relied on by thousands of families, including my own, and learning BSL opens up access to an enriching community for deaf people to be part of. It provides a special bond and a shared sense of identity, in a society that has historically refused to recognise deaf culture and need.

We owe it to members of the deaf community and the campaigners who have come before us to continue to put BSL on the Government’s agenda. We have the legal framework in place to effect real change, and we now need to turn that into a positive reality.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (in the Chair)]

I suggest five minutes for every speech to start with.

13:47

[Matt Vickers (Stockton West) (Con)]

I have not learned any BSL to any competent level, but I promise I will endeavour to do so before next year’s debate. I congratulate the hon. Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) on securing this very important debate. I want to celebrate the incredible contributions of the deaf community and BSL users across the United Kingdom. BSL is not just a language; it is a vital means of communication that connects people to their families, their communities and essential services.

I was recently invited to visit MeSign by Steven Francis, who is a deaf person, a teacher of BSL and an incredible advocate for his community. I also got to meet Michelle Teasdale, who was born to deaf parents and founded MeSign, which brings together the deaf community. The pair, and their amazing team at MeSign, hold events that allow deaf people from across Thornaby and further afield to come together. Their amazing organisation tackles isolation and allows deaf people to share the challenges and difficulties they might be facing. They helped me to understand that for deaf people, written English is in no way a direct equivalent to BSL. The barriers and challenges created by deafness mean that reading written English, particularly when jargon-riddled or technical, can be difficult for many. BSL is their first language.

It is vital that public services make themselves accessible to all. All too often, we see that there is investment in translators for those speaking foreign languages, but having access to translation for BSL is a postcode lottery. That is not acceptable, and more must be done. Steve and Michelle told me that my local authority contact centres, many GPs and many local employment services fail to offer BSL interpretation and are not as accessible as in other places. The reality is that technology means that it would be as simple as having an iPad and access to a translation service.

People who want to sort out everyday issues such as council tax bills, or to understand changes to bin collections, are left isolated and frustrated. They lose their independence and have to rely on family and friends to help them. The worst and most heartbreaking example that Steve and Michelle shared with me is about deaf people who use health services having to rely on family members to interpret what they are being told—imagine someone having to interpret a diagnosis for something like cancer to their deaf parents. That is completely unacceptable, and it cannot go on.

Huge progress has been made, but we need to go a lot further. We need to ensure that all public services are accessible and offer BSL interpretation. I will continue to push my local service providers to raise their standards. I welcome today’s debate, as it seeks to push this issue up the agenda.

13:50

[Ms Julie Minns (Carlisle) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Desmond. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) on bringing this important debate to Westminster Hall. I will attempt to say [In British Sign Language: Good afternoon] to the members of the public and members of the deaf community who have joined us today.

For more than 150,000 people in the UK, BSL is their first or preferred language. That is 150,000 people who cannot routinely follow debates in this Chamber; 150,000 people who may be unable to read information about how to travel to Westminster or, indeed, anywhere across the UK; and 150,000 people—approximately one in 450 people—whose language has been and continues to be misunderstood and whose communication preferences often go unmet. Their language is misunderstood because BSL, as we have already heard this afternoon, is not a translation of English. Many people do not realise that, but it means that too often service providers believe that they have met the needs of BSL users because they provide webchat or email access to customer services, not understanding that many BSL users may not read English.

The lack of understanding was brought home to me all too clearly a few years ago when I was working for an electricity distribution network. Following engagement with our deaf customers, I recommended that the network introduce video relay access to its customer services. That recommendation was initially met with bewilderment, as customer services had only recently introduced webchat and the view was that the needs of deaf customers were therefore met. After several discussions explaining and re-explaining that BSL is not a translation of English, video relay was introduced to those customer services.

Although a growing number of organisations now provide video relay access to their customer services, many do not. I did a quick check ahead of today’s debate and confirmed that although my constituents in Carlisle and north Cumbria can access their water company by video relay, they cannot access their gas and electricity networks. Considering how vital those utilities are, we need to do more; I will certainly be writing to my local electricity and gas distribution networks after today to urge them to introduce video relay.

British Sign Language is a beautiful language, but its users can face less than beautiful consequences from using it. BSL users can face social exclusion as a direct result of linguistic exclusion. That can negatively affect their employment, education, access to healthcare, and navigation of the justice system and victim support. The concerns that we all have about our public services become doubly concerning when people cannot routinely access information about those services.

That is why the 2022 Act introduced by the former Member for West Lancashire—we have already spoken about it this afternoon—was a major step forward. The requirement to produce a report every three years on the use of BSL by Departments is key to ensuring that Government communications are as inclusive and accessible as possible. I welcome the Labour Government’s commitment to continuing to improve the accessibility of Government communications to the deaf community and BSL users.

In conclusion, I want to share with hon. Members that earlier this week, my hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Alison Hume) and I took part in an introductory BSL training session specifically for MPs. I urge all colleagues to look out for it if it is offered again.

[Alison Hume]

My big takeaway from the training session that was provided here was that the language is a visual language. Does my hon. Friend agree that we are therefore excluding many of our constituents without realising?

[Ms Minns]

I absolutely agree; all of us in this House have some way to go to improve access for BSL users. It is just over a year since the House introduced British Sign Language coverage for questions and statements. That was clearly welcome, but it means that on any given day, over 50% of business in the main Chamber remains unsigned. I therefore hope that today’s debate prompts a further improvement on the signing of the business of this place.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (in the Chair)]

I call Perran Moon.

13:56

[Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)]

[In British Sign Language: Thank you.] That is about as far as my signing goes, Sir Desmond, apart from one or two rude words that are not appropriate for the Chamber—it is an honour to serve under your chairship once again. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) for securing this debate and for her continued advocacy as part of the APPG on British Sign Language. I declare an interest as an officer of that APPG.

As a hearing person, I cannot claim to have direct experience, but I will describe the experience of Katie and her son Alvie from Illogan in my constituency of Camborne, Redruth and Hayle. Katie first learnt that Alvie had been born with hearing loss when he was just seven weeks old. By the time he was 10 weeks old, he had been fitted with hearing aids. The diagnosis came with a flood of appointments, hospital visits and advice from professionals, all of whom were hearing and, through no fault of their own, were perhaps not best placed to understand the needs of a deaf child.

Katie’s initial question was whether she and her family would need to learn BSL to communicate with Alvie. She was reassured that they would not need to, and she accepted that advice with relief. Looking back, however, it seems bizarre that Katie was not provided with the opportunity to learn BSL as soon as possible to begin to communicate with her son.

Alvie struggled to keep his hearing aids on. He was always having fun; at the beach, he would roll them in the sand and throw them into the sea. Alvie’s parents were told to persevere, but they could not help but feel the weight of their son’s isolation during those early years—unable to hear the world around, to engage in conversation or to be part of the joyful moments that many of us take for granted.

Katie’s story is one of frustration and determination. She began to campaign for better access to BSL training for parents of deaf children, and soon discovered that the current support system was failing families. Free or affordable BSL courses were not readily available, and many parents were unable to find the resources they needed to learn how to communicate with their own deaf children.

As Katie worked with the British Deaf Association and the National Deaf Children’s Society, she uncovered the immense barriers that exist, such as the cost of courses, the lack of funding, and the exclusion of parents from programmes designed to help them. Her goal is simple: she wants all parents of deaf children to have access to BSL. She believes that no parent should have to fight for the right to communicate with their child, especially when a solution already exists.

Through her campaign, Katie has gathered tens of thousands of signatures in support of free BSL courses for parents and guardians. She is determined to ensure that future generations of deaf children will not experience the isolation and frustration that so many adults in the deaf community have faced. Alvie’s journey has been life changing for his family, and while they are making progress in learning BSL, Katie knows that it should not have been that difficult. Deaf children have the right to full communication, and families should not have to battle the system to ensure that their children are included and supported.

Katie’s story is the story of countless families across the UK. I pay tribute to her as a campaigner and a brilliant mum. We must ensure that people can choose to learn BSL freely and access training. I have been so impressed with her work as a campaigner that I was delighted to have the opportunity to employ her as a caseworker in my constituency office. Katie joins us here in the Public Gallery today.

That brings me to two key points: first, it is a tragedy that parents of deaf children in the UK are often advised to choose between BSL and spoken language. I am pleased that the Government are committed to offering a BSL GCSE with the capacity to teach not only signing itself, but the history of the language. This is a fascinating opportunity to make teaching and learning BSL more mainstream. However, I worry that early access to sign language is still not readily available, which means that the richness of the language itself is lost to many people who do not have the chance to access BSL early on.

My second concern is over funding. The Government have inherited a situation where funding for BSL courses is taken from the adult education budget, now the adult skills fund. The fund is aimed at people who want to learn vocational courses who are usually unemployed. This makes it inherently difficult for parents of deaf children who want to learn but who are working. What is more, a postcode lottery exists where many parents, including Katie, simply do not live near an institution with the provision for BSL courses. It is also very difficult for working parents to qualify for funding for BSL courses as a means of communicating with their child.

In conclusion, it is essential that we recognise BSL not just as a language, but as a fundamental tool for communication, inclusion and connectivity for the deaf community. We must ensure that all families, particularly those with deaf children, have equal access to BSL courses, regardless of their location or financial situation. The Government must act swiftly to eliminate the barriers that prevent parents from learning BSL and communicating fully with their children. Let us ensure that future generations of deaf children are supported in their journey towards full inclusion and engagement, and that no family is left to fight a system that should be supporting them.

14:02

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Desmond. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft), my best friend, for securing this hugely important debate—sorry to everybody else! I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham North (Vicky Foxcroft), who in April 2021 was the first Member of Parliament to use British Sign Language during Prime Minister’s Question Time, bringing to the attention of the then Prime Minister the fact that there were no BSL interpreters at the then Prime Minister’s press briefings.

I came to this debate not speaking any BSL other than to say “thank you” and “Will my hon. Friend give way?”, which I learned yesterday. To be honest, having tried learning French in the past, I know that I am not very good at languages, so I appreciate the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock about those who have difficulty learning languages—some would say my English is not great, either.

The contributions that I have heard so far from hon. Members from across the House have really moved me and made me think a lot about my own practice. When I go back to Harlow and my constituency team tomorrow, I will have conversations with them about how we ensure that any engagement that I have with members of the public in Harlow—including my MP surgeries—is compatible with BSL, because what I do not want, and I am sure no Member wants, is our constituents feeling that they cannot have access to their MP in their first language.

I want to talk about accessibility. I declare an interest because I am a member of the Modernisation Committee. It is really important that everyone, no matter their situation, has the opportunity to achieve. I have been impressed in many ways by how accessible the House is. Last week, members of Razed Roof—an inclusive theatre company that I am a trustee of—visited Parliament. Simon, who I have mentioned before, who often relies on physical communication and is wheelchair-bound, was able to get a tour of Parliament, which he enjoyed a great deal. The only slight problem came when we went to St Stephen’s Hall. But clearly there is more we can do. We do not just want to make Parliament accessible; we want to make politics accessible, and not just so that people who have BSL as a first language can access politics, but so they can participate in politics and perhaps even be an MP.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock said, there are 87,000 people who use BSL as a first language, so I ask the Minister how we can better ensure that they can participate in politics and play an active part in it. It would not be a Westminster Hall debate in which I was taking part if I did not mention young carers: I pay tribute to the number of young people who have to learn BSL to communicate with a parent or loved one. The points made about ensuring that BSL is part of the curriculum and that it is not a postcode lottery are really important, particularly to young carers. We have spoken about the difficulties parents have in being able to access BSL to communicate with their children, but it works both ways.

Of course, I recognise that life exists outside this place and I want to briefly touch on education—another of my favourite topics. The Department for Education has not yet made BSL part of the curriculum, but will give schools the option to offer a BSL GCSE. As my hon. Friend the Member for Chelsea and Fulham (Ben Coleman) mentioned, a GCSE for BSL was expected in September 2025. Can the Minister tell us how this is progressing? That would be really useful to know. There is also currently no national programme for early years BSL, as other Members have covered.

Let us as politicians work with organisations like the BDA and the Royal National Institute for Deaf People to make not only this place, but society, an inclusive place for everyone, including those people for whom British Sign Language is their first language. We should not have a postcode lottery.

14:07

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Desmond. I commend the hon. Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) on setting the scene so well. She spoke excellently yesterday in the Down’s syndrome debate and her speech today was a tour de force.

[Perran Moon]

I wonder if the hon. Gentleman could try to talk a little slower, because the interpreters might be struggling a little bit.

[Jim Shannon]

Kate Hoey, formerly the hon. Member for Vauxhall, said, “Whenever Jim Shannon speaks, he gets more words to the minute that any other MP”, so the hon. Member is absolutely right to tell me to slow it down. I will do my best to slow down a wee bit, if that is possible.

The speech made by the hon. Member for Thurrock was a tour de force. It is clear to all of us here that her heart shines brightly, and we thank her for telling her story. I congratulate all the other hon. Members who have had the ability to learn sign language.

The hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth (Perran Moon) referred to one of his staff members; I say to her, keep a tight rein on him! I say that in jest, of course, because we all recognise how hard the hon. Member works.

In Northern Ireland, we have two sign languages. It is part of the Belfast/Good Friday agreement. We have British Sign Language and Irish Sign Language, because we have two different traditions, and the people of those traditions have the same difficulties when it comes to sign language. Those who want to have British Sign Language can have that and those who want Irish Sign Language can have that as well. In March 2004, the Secretary of State announced the formal recognition of British Sign Language and Irish Sign Language as languages in their own right, following similar recognition of BSL in Great Britain.

Some of my staff are very assiduous. I am only as good as my staff—I say that honestly because it is true. When some constituents came into the office who were challenged and had deaf issues, my staff decided that—even though those constituents came into the office with their parents—they would learn some sign language in order to communicate with them. My staff wanted not only to understand what my constituents wanted but to engage socially with them. I think it was the hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth who said that when people cannot hear anything, they do not know what is happening around them. My staff felt that it was important to do that small thing. It shows that sometimes we have to do things outside of our own systems.

British Sign Language and Irish Sign Language in Northern Ireland have their own grammar and syntax systems, rather than being visual reflections of other languages. I believe we have a good system in Northern Ireland.

I should have said that I am pleased to see the Minister for Social Security and Disability, the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), in his place. I do not think I have yet been in a debate where he has been responding. I look forward to hearing what he has to say, and to the speeches of the Opposition spokespeople, the hon. Member for East Grinstead and Uckfield (Mims Davies) and the hon. Member for Wokingham (Clive Jones).

British Sign Language is the first, or preferred, language of communication for approximately 3,500 members of the deaf population of Northern Ireland, and approximately 1,500 use Irish Sign Language. Schools have incorporated some basic sign language, and I am glad they have—it is another way of doing it.

We have many churches who engage in this. It is no secret that I am a Christian, and I like to understand that we are moving with society. There can be language issues for children at church whenever we are preaching the gospel, preaching the word of God, reading the Bible or praying, so we should have sign language in the church.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland has launched a brilliant new sign language video relay service for deaf people. There is access to the facility—24 hours a day, seven days a week—on the SignVideo app or via a call button on the PSNI website. I say to the Minister: if the PSNI has done that in Northern Ireland, perhaps we need to do that here.

I have one last point. Fury from “Gladiators” is deaf, but look at what that lady has done. There is not one man in this Chamber who would take her on, never mind any other lady—I know I wouldn’t, anyway. I will finish by saying this: if Fury can do it, you can do it as well.

14:12

[Matt Turmaine (Watford) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Desmond. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) on securing this important debate. I declare an interest as an officer of the APPG.

I thank Watford Deaf Club, which was kind enough to host a hustings event for the general election in June 2024, and Helen Austin from the club, who has helped to identify some of the many challenges the deaf community face in day-to-day life. At the hustings event I was struck by two things: first, by how disappointing it is that society at large does not adequately consider integrating deaf people into our culture, systems and public life, resulting in a discernibly disadvantaged experience of some aspects of what hearing-able people take for granted; secondly, by how frustrated and upset some members of the community are about that first point. As politicians, we need to be very careful to be inclusive, accessible and available to all our residents. Currently, we are not. I say that with my hand up first, among many.

My local deaf club says:

“We are so glad that BSL was recognised by the DWP in 2003, and that the BSL Act was passed in 2022, but there are still so many issues that BSL users meet every day.”

I know from the comments of people at the club that the issues include BSL interpreter availability. It is great when interpreters are in the room at televised events, such as political conferences and briefings, but they are often hidden in a corner, meaning the angles of vision can be difficult for BSL users viewing events on TV. The deaf community would like interpreters to be front and centre, as they are in America and New Zealand. Their being tucked away makes the community feel like people are embarrassed of BSL and, by extension, them.

Signed TV programmes are put into ghettos, often at unhelpful times, and appear and disappear with no notice. That also makes the community feel second class. Not all programmes are subtitled, and smaller channels are not expected to provide them. Sometimes, automated subtitles do not keep up with the speech, a phenomenon known as—excuse my language—craptions. Certainly, not all programmes are signed. Members of the deaf community point out to me that they pay 100% of the TV license but do not have access to 100% of the programming content they contribute to.

Additionally—and here I confess guilt of my own—not all politicians subtitle their videos, making democracy inaccessible. My local deaf club says:

“We’d love BSL interpreted videos but subtitles would be a good start.”

It is best practice to make social media posts accessible. I try, but there is clearly room for improvement on my own feeds, and no doubt on others’ too.

The community has raised particular difficulties accessing public services. This was raised at the aforementioned hustings event, and it obviously continues to be an issue. NHS access is still unreliable and inaccessible. Let me read a quote:

“Deaf people have to chase staff in their second language to find out if anyone has bothered to book an interpreter for each and EVERY appointment (hospital and GP, or any other NHS service) and fight for one when they haven’t, despite this being their right under the Accessible Information Standard (AIS) so should be automatic. 

Health services being outsourced is another massive issue. They often find buildings are inaccessible—you have to speak into a box, no way to sign, and no-one seems to know if they are covered by the AIS and, if so, whose responsibility it is to find/book/pay for the Interpreter?”

MP and councillor surgeries have also been raised. How can the community access them and have BSL interpreters present? That is a great idea and I will take it on board for my own surgeries.

Communication with emergency services is a problem as well. My local deaf club has highlighted the case of a member who was sexually assaulted and, despite repeated requests, never had access to a BSL interpreter when talking to the police. That is shocking. It is disappointing that there is no longer a police liaison for the deaf community in my county of Hertfordshire. Many, if not all, of these problems can be solved through basic training and understanding.

It is vital that we take steps here in this place, and when dealing with the big charities as parliamentarians, to make sure that national efforts are made and connected with local communities; otherwise, we risk ignoring people as individuals, and we might create or reform services in ways that do not work for them.

Finally, it is important to acknowledge the great deal of concern among the community regarding the forthcoming benefits reforms. Although we await the final details, it is vital to acknowledge that we need to support the community to cover the additional costs of living with deafness. For example, having to pay for BSL interpreters in person or online is a requirement that impacts people whether they are employed or not. This has been an inspiring debate, and I look forward to taking action to address the issues raised today.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (in the Chair)]

I have to impose a three-minute formal time limit.

14:18

[Amanda Hack (North West Leicestershire) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Desmond. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) for securing this incredibly important debate. I reiterate her point that we are talking about fundamental communication and giving every person the opportunity to learn and to access all the services they so desperately need.

Communication between children and their parents, families, friends, teachers and the wider community will stop deaf children and adults feeling isolated in society. Currently, there is no national programme for early years British Sign Language provision for deaf children in the UK. Instead, parents are being told that their deaf children do not necessarily need to learn BSL. But when children are taught to sign, it opens up communication and removes barriers for them.

One of the most beautiful things I have seen was my niece, who was only seven at the time, sing “Little Donkey” while signing along. That was to ensure that the deaf child in her class was not isolated during the song. Ensuring that all children can communicate with each other is just as important for socialising—there is a barrier for deaf children, but non-deaf children want to engage with them, so it is important that they can communicate together.

As the British Deaf Association warns us, there are serious life consequences for deaf children’s language, emotional and cognitive development, as well as for their general wellbeing. Deaf children are taught that merely coping is the highest they will ever achieve, but there should be no reason to think that a deaf child is any less able to achieve top grades, their dreams or their career goals than any other child. We just need to open up the opportunity for them.

Families have to pay to learn how to communicate with their child through sign language, and often the lessons are framed around receiving a qualification. For most parents, it is not about the qualification—it is about getting to read a bedtime story or ask their child about their day—but the lessons are often not tailored around communicating with their children. Although it is fantastic that level 1 courses are being offered in local libraries and leisure centres across Leicestershire, we need so much more. Most classes in North West Leicestershire, a rural community, are only offered online, but face-to-face learning is much more effective.

In Sign Language Week, it is more important than ever that we recognise the barriers that deaf children and adults face if they are unable to communicate with their peers. There are very simple solutions. Like the British Deaf Association, I believe that deaf children in the UK and their families have a right to learn British Sign Language and receive the linguistic and cultural enrichment that comes with it. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response to this incredibly important debate.

14:21

[Clive Jones (Wokingham) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Desmond. I thank the hon. Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) for securing this important debate during Sign Language Week. Her dedication in advocating for British Sign Language is commendable, and her tireless campaigning is a sign that the 2024 intake of parliamentarians is one of the best.

I am really sorry that I do not have any sign language. My mother lost much of her hearing as a teenager and lived to the age of 93, using aids for as long as I can remember. If she had been able to learn BSL, I am sure her life would have been much easier.

My Liberal Democrat colleagues and I share the belief of the hon. Member for Thurrock that all deaf and hearing-impaired individuals have the right to participate in society fully and independently. That is not a theoretical right: it is a basic human right that too often remains unrealised.

[Rachel Taylor (North Warwickshire and Bedworth) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Desmond. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) for securing this debate. When I worked at the Royal National Institute for Deaf People 25 years ago, I learned how important BSL is as a means of communication for deaf people.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (in the Chair)]

Order. Interventions must be short.

[Rachel Taylor]

BSL is a rich and important part of the cultural identity of the deaf community. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is essential that deaf people and their parents have access to BSL based not on whether they can pay for the courses but on need? That would enrich the language and cultural identity of the deaf community.

[Clive Jones]

I agree 100% with everything the hon. Lady said.

The Liberal Democrats have a long history of pushing for British Sign Language to be given legal status. We have worked for change since one our councillors, David Buxton, became the first deaf sign language politician in the UK to be elected as a borough councillor. He co-founded the Liberal Democrat Disability Association, and has extensive experience of campaigning and doing incredible work across the UK in advocating for the deaf community.

In 2022, David fought hard for the British Sign Language Act, which officially recognised BSL as a language in England, Wales and Scotland. That was a significant victory, but we must acknowledge that it was only one step on a much longer journey. Recognition is essential, but it is not enough: we need respect for BSL alongside tangible pathways to a world where deaf people can achieve their full potential.

We are concerned about the previous Conservative Government’s legacy of cuts to British Sign Language interpretation services for deaf people accessing health services. Funding for the BSL health access app was withdrawn, and it is deeply unjust that BSL users currently have to ask for reasonable adjustments through the Equality Act 2010 if they want to access information and services. Furthermore, the adjustments provided are usually written notes, rather than the provision of a BSL interpreter.

We are committed to seeing more deaf BSL users elected to public and political office, and a good step towards that aim is wider access to services in BSL. Extensive research suggests the best time to learn a second language is from the age of six to puberty. The opportunity for access to language experience is crucial, especially for deaf children’s language, emotional and cognitive development. That is why the Department for Education should commission a feasibility study into the introduction of BSL lessons in primary schools, which would embed the teaching of basic BSL from an early age, and offer expert findings to devolved Education Departments to share best practice across the United Kingdom.

Furthermore, we support the rapid introduction of GCSE-equivalent qualifications in BSL in England, which would provide a clear formal pathway for students to gain fluency in British Sign Language. It is deeply concerning that, despite the Government’s commitment to rolling out the qualification by the start of the 2025 academic year, the implementation of BSL in the national curriculum continues to be delayed.

There is a real risk that further delays in implementing BSL qualifications will deprive the next generation of BSL users of the access and opportunities they rightly deserve. Without this opportunity, deaf children may grow up without the proper foundation to navigate the world fully and confidently. That would be simply unacceptable. Will the Minister commit today that the BSL GCSE will not go the way of the Welsh equivalent by eventually being scrapped? Will he also give more specific details as to when Ofqual’s proposed consultation on assessment arrangements and its technical consultation will be launched?

14:29

[Mims Davies (East Grinstead and Uckfield) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Desmond, on behalf of His Majesty’s loyal Opposition. I thank the hon. Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) for securing this important and timely debate during Sign Language Week. It was great to hear that the all-party group has been re-formed and to hear of her pride in that. It is wonderful to see signing in the Chamber today. We have had some important, thoughtful and very hard-practised contributions from hon. Members. These general debates often bring a new perspective in the very best traditions of this House. We have seen that once again this afternoon.

Claire, from my team, is a signer. I really value her contribution and commitment across my constituency in East Grinstead, Uckfield and the villages. She works to make sure that I connect with local young people and users of BSL. She has taught me a little bit, but I must say that I have failed miserably to keep up with it. Robin also taught me some—I am very proudly wearing my badge from my time working with Robin when I was in the DWP. I am not sure whether the Minister will have much time to learn BSL—I wish that I had had time to learn more of it—but I wish him well on that. My time with Robin was very much worth it.

As a former Minister in the DWP, I was pleased to work on the efforts to improve BSL across Government. We made some excellent progress. The Conservatives’ legacy is of working on legislative change and implementing Rosie Cooper’s amazing work on the British Sign Language Act 2022, which was ably supported by my colleague Chloe Smith, who has not left the field when it comes to working on this. Recognising BSL as an official language and rightly improving the reporting duties was leadership from the top of Government on improving BSL in official communications.

Of course, as with everything, there is always more to do. The first report required under the Act was published in July 2023. Although the Act requires a report to be published triennially, we wanted to go further to embed the sea change that we have talked about this afternoon into Government communications, and committed to report annually in the first five years. I am sure that the Minister will reassure the House that his Government will match our commitment and, hopefully, follow suit. In my time at the DWP, BSL and accessibility for all was at the heart of our engagements. I am sure that no campaigner would leave the Minister’s or my office without rightly reminding us not to forget that. We are also rightly proud of the BSL Advisory Board.

[Ms Minns]

In a rare moment of cross-party agreement, I think the work done on the implementation of the ’22 Act was very welcome. It is also worth noting the Media Act 2024, which extended the quota requirement on BSL programming to on-demand services. That quota is only 5%. Does the hon. Lady wish to comment on whether that quota is sufficiently ambitious?

[Mims Davies]

As we have heard today, BSL availability for users, through both captions on TV and signing in person, is too low. As the hon. Member for Watford (Matt Turmaine) spelled out, it would be hard for any of us to say that 5% is enough. We should challenge ourselves on that.

BSL was first recognised as a separate language in March 2003 and has about 150,000 regular users. However, one can find it in early documentation from 1576 in the registry offices of St Martin’s church in Leicester, where a marriage ceremony apparently took place between Thomas and Ursula that showed that love is blind, and can also be deaf. It is wonderful to hear how that passage of love played out. I enjoyed finding that out from one of my colleagues.

It was 50 years ago that British Sign Language was officially introduced with formal recognition. As we have found out this afternoon, there is still a lot to do to embed it into our school system. It is wonderful to have younger BSL users in the Public Gallery today. As many hon. Members have said today, we should note the need for loved ones and carers to get the right advice, as adults caring for little ones, about when deafness touches the lives of a family, and then look at how we can embed it as a route around accessibility.

I was struck by what my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton West (Matt Vickers) said about means of communication, and how the MeSign team helps to tackle isolation. He said that provision of BSL in Government services was woeful and that more was needed. There is a loss of independence, particularly in NHS and health services, if BSL is not there.

I also want to touch on the points made by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon); I think it was the first time he has spoken quite so slowly. As usual, he got all his points in and raised the things in his community that make such a difference. When it comes to BSL services in healthcare, the NHS 111 BSL service, across the board, is just not enough. He highlighted some progress, yet also some areas where we are left wanting. That applies to mental health support as well. I talked about isolation earlier on, and I think we can very much improve on that issue.

I turn to some of the questions this afternoon. The most recent report, in December 2024, found important progress in Government communications at the Home Office, the Cabinet Office and the DWP. As I said, there is a legacy there, but there is still more work to do. We have heard this afternoon about the changes in Wales; unfortunately, the work across the Senedd has not been enough when it comes to BSL access in Wales. We also heard about the scrapping of the BSL GCSE in Wales in October 2024. The British Deaf Association’s Cymru manager called that

“a slap in the face”.

We have heard today about the real, tangible opportunity for young people if the BSL GCSE were ready for 2025 in England. It is hugely disappointing that a plan of how to deliver that has not been set out. I hope that, on behalf of his Government, the Minister can commit to straining every sinew to see whether that GCSE can be taught in classrooms for pupils and adult learners alike. In fact, in my previous roles, I met many young people who wanted to learn it as a language—something that the hon. Member for Chelsea and Fulham (Ben Coleman) also pointed out today.

I think I need to conclude, Sir Desmond. [Interruption.] Oh, I do not need to. Well, in that case, I have a couple more points to make. Gosh—how exciting! I turn to BSL accessibility in Government communications and the disability action plan. As the Minister will know, in February 2024, when a Minister in his Department, I took forward a commitment to 32 actions to make the UK more accessible for disabled people to work, live, and—importantly—thrive in. What has happened to the update on that, and what can we expect? As we have heard today, the actions, outcomes and needs of our young people, disabled people and users of BSL have not changed. What is his commitment to the issue in the Department, following the legislative changes that came through in the British Sign Language Act 2022?

We have had absolutely the right conversation this afternoon, and I look forward to the issue being discussed in the main Chamber of the House of Commons next year. I congratulate the hon. Member for Thurrock on bringing forward this debate. As has been highlighted, the interest in BSL, and the need for BSL interpreters, has never been higher. I urge the Minister to outline the steps that the Government will take across all Departments, using his leverage through the equalities role, to increase the communications across the board, particularly in times of national need and national urgency. I was very close to making further announcements about that when I was at the Department.

I hope we have come a long way since 1576 and the act of love that I talked about earlier. Clearly, there is much more to be done in this arena to help people to thrive, move into employment and, above all, feel part of the whole of wider society, with full accessibility for all. I thank everyone for joining us here this afternoon.

14:40

[The Minister for Social Security and Disability (Sir Stephen Timms)]

I am delighted to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Desmond. We have had a wide-ranging and thoughtful debate. I warmly congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) on securing it during British Sign Language Week and on the initiative of establishing the all-party parliamentary group.

It is not very well known that the Deputy Prime Minister is BSL qualified to level 2. She has this morning posted on social media a signing message in support of British Sign Language Week. She sets out in the message the Government’s commitment and her own commitment to championing BSL and to tackling the barriers that face people in Britain with hearing impairments.

[Rachel Taylor]

Does the Minister agree that there is still a long way to go to make BSL accessible for everyone who needs it and that it is important that deaf people not only are included in the conversations, but lead them? Does he share my delight in seeing BSL interpreters here today in Westminster Hall, which sends a message to deaf people that they are welcome here?

[Sir Stephen Timms]

I am very glad to do so; I completely agree with my hon. Friend.

This week gives us a chance to celebrate British Sign Language and Irish Sign Language. As we have heard, 151,000 people use BSL; 87,000 have it as their first language, and it is the UK’s fourth most widely used indigenous language. That is a very large group of people, with a great deal to contribute to our economy and our society.

It is right to take this week as an opportunity to highlight, as my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock said, the rich culture around BSL, of which many people are unaware. I was intrigued that American Sign Language is completely different from BSL; I think that arises from its origins not long after American independence when—I suppose understandably—Americans wanted more to do with the French than the British. That has shaped American Sign Language today.

We have heard about the 2022 Act, and I echo the tributes to our former colleague Rosie Cooper and to Chloe Smith, the then Minister. The Act is driving improved accessibility of Government communications and in this Government we are going to implement it in full. My hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock very reasonably asked why the BSL version of Tuesday’s Green Paper has not yet appeared. I can only apologise for that. The 12-week consultation clock will not start until all the accessible versions are published in early April, with a BSL version among them, so that BSL users will have a full 12 weeks to respond.

The BSL Act requires the Government to publish a British Sign Language report setting out each Department’s steps to promote and facilitate the use of BSL in public communications. The first, as the hon. Member for East Grinstead and Uckfield (Mims Davies) reminded us, was published in July 2023. The second was a bit delayed by the general election and appeared in December. I echo the commitment that she set out to annual publication in those first five years. As my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock said, BSL activity has more than doubled across Government since that first report, but there is still a long way to go, and I have noticed impatience in some quarters about the speed of progress.

The new Lead Ministers for Disability will have an important role here. We discussed the BSL Act and its reporting framework at our first meeting in December, and we did so again in our second meeting last week. We will keep progress under review, and of course I will have the opportunity to discuss there a number of the issues raised in this debate. We will also publish a BSL plan for each Government Department with the third BSL report, which we will be publishing in the summer.

In line with the commitment in our election manifesto, I work closely with disabled people and representative organisations to put their views and voices at the heart of all we do. Since July, I have met a wide range of deaf people’s organisations, along with other disability organisations. We have heard about the independent BSL Advisory Board, set up in the wake of the Act; it is co-chaired by Craig Crowley, chief executive of Action Deafness, who has done a fantastic job. The board has 15 members, mainly BSL users and all with lived and/or professional experience of the barriers facing deaf people.

I have been very impressed with the board’s work, drawing on the experience of its members and their knowledge of those barriers to develop priorities and a focus for its work, including setting up sub-groups on specific issues. For example, the health and social care sub-group is compiling recommendations based on deaf people’s experiences in the health service—we have heard about a number of those in this debate. I have also spoke to SignHealth, which has made the point to me that BSL users often struggle even to make a GP appointment and to communicate basic health information with the NHS. The report of that sub-group, with its recommendations, will appear later on this year.

Over the last year, the board has also discussed deaf access to sport with the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. It presented at the British Deaf Association conference in Manchester, the theme of which was BSL in the early years, and I am grateful to the board co-chairs and other members for their commitment to improving the lives of deaf people and collaborating in order to do so.

I attended the education summit that the BSL Advisory Board organised at the Frank Barnes School for Deaf Children at King’s Cross last year. There were powerful contributions from senior leaders on the barriers that deaf children and their families face in education. That school is really interesting; it has a bilingual model of education and shares a playground with a hearing school, encouraging interaction between deaf and hearing children, contributing to the inclusion of everybody.

We want to enhance the status of BSL, and I agree with the points made in this debate that the GCSE will benefit BSL users generally, as well as those individual students who take it.

[Noah Law (St Austell and Newquay) (Lab)]

My constituent Sarah has been unable to afford a British Sign Language course for her son, which costs up to £400. I welcome the prospect of a GCSE in BSL, but that support is often unavailable where skills funding is not devolved. Can the Minister outline what steps he is taking to ensure that families in areas not yet devolved, such as Cornwall, can also affordably access BSL courses?

[Sir Stephen Timms]

The situation in Cornwall has also been raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth (Perran Moon). My understanding is that the adult skills fund will be devolved in Cornwall under the recent devolution agreement that has been reached. The fund will be devolved from the coming academic year 2025-26, so there is an opportunity for local decision making in the future. My hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth rightly made points about the way in which that funding has typically been used in the past, and the fact that the decision has certainly not always been made to provide courses along those lines. Following that devolution deal, there is at least the opportunity to do that.

I assure the House of our continuing commitment to the GCSE. Ofqual is now finalising the assessment arrangements for it, working closely with exam boards and BSL organisations to ensure that there is a fair and reliable assessment process. Ofqual met the BSL Advisory Board on 5 February to discuss that, and I think the board was generally reassured about the progress being made and the commitment to deliver. I am advised that the technical consultation that the hon. Member for Wokingham (Clive Jones) asked about will be launched in the next few weeks.

[Mims Davies]

I am grateful to the Minister for the reassurances. The message from the Chamber this afternoon has been about a postcode lottery, and different experiences for families in different parts of the country. I am grateful that the Minister is seeking to reassure and to work with Craig and others. Could the Minister undertake to work with our devolved nations—I mentioned the challenges in Wales and there is further progress in Holyrood—so that the postcode lottery does not extend despite the good efforts of his office?

[Sir Stephen Timms]

Yes, I would be very glad to meet representatives of the devolved Governments, and to co-operate with them on this, as we do in many other areas.

[Jim Shannon]

The Police Service of Northern Ireland has a 24/7 video system, so that those who have hearing problems can contact them and somebody can come out immediately. Is that something that the Minister could push forward with police forces on the mainland?

[Sir Stephen Timms]

I welcome that innovative arrangement; if the hon. Member drops me a line about it, I would be interested to look at it further. That is a similar example to what we heard about some energy companies operating for their customers, and I welcome it.

Another main focus for the advisory board this year is the use of artificial intelligence to reduce barriers. How long will it be before we have a handheld device that will be able to interpret BSL both ways? What might be the pitfalls of that happening? Yesterday I chaired an interesting roundtable at Tata in Bishopsgate, attended by the co-chairs and members of the BSL Advisory Board, representatives of the British Deaf Association, the RNID, Professor Richard Bowden from the University of Surrey, and Professor Kearsy Cormier, professor of sign linguistics at University College London.

At the roundtable Dr Charudatta Jadhav, the principal scientist and head of the accessibility centre of excellence at Tata in India, told us that, while Tata is focusing initially on Indian and American Sign Language, it expects to have a BSL interpretation product within five years. We discussed the ethical and cultural issues around that: how can software interpret the nuances in facial expressions, which I believe are much more important in BSL than in Indian Sign Language? How do developers decide which version of BSL to implement? How will regional accents, which can provide a BSL user with valuable information about the signer, be handled? Those are interesting topics, and as Members have said, deaf people need to be in driving seat in resolving them.

Tech can certainly help deaf people to overcome barriers that too often and needlessly block opportunities that others take for granted. We want more of that potential to be realised. The Government have taken important steps around equal pay and flexible working. On Tuesday, we launched our 12-week consultation on mandatory disability pay gap reporting—including, I am pleased to say, a BSL version of the consultation document. We want deaf people to get the support they need to thrive in the workplace, and we recognise that too many do not at the moment.

Implementing the BSL Act is only just beginning. Let us all keep working together to deliver the access and inclusion for deaf people that all of us want to see. Again, I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock and to everyone who has contributed to this important and welcome debate. I am grateful to those in the Public Gallery for their interest. I express particular thanks to the interpreters who have supported us today, and I thank Mr Speaker for enabling them to be with us.

14:55

[Jen Craft]

I thank all Members who have taken part, particularly those who took the time to learn some BSL. I also thank the interpreters, who have made it possible for the deaf community to join us.

I have a few reflections on things that were raised. There is certainly a learning point for all Members across the House to consider how we can best communicate with our constituents with hearing loss and those who are deaf, and how we can ensure that we are fully accessible. I will certainly be asking utility companies in my constituency—thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (Ms Minns)—whether they have taken measures to ensure that there is BSL interpretation for those who need it.

I thank the Minister; I am reassured by the Government’s continuing commitment to the BSL GCSE, but I reiterate my plea for a meeting to discuss early years support for parents and universal BSL language support for parents who have a deaf child, because that is sorely lacking right now. I look forward to next year, when hopefully we will be able to have this debate in the Chamber and have interpreters with us. I encourage all Members to show their support, to join us on the APPG and to take away from this debate that we must make sure that not just Parliament, but politics, is accessible for all.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered British Sign Language Week.

14:56

Sitting suspended.