British Sign Language Week

Matt Turmaine Excerpts

Thursday 20th March 2025 Westminster Hall

[Matt Turmaine (Watford) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Desmond. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) on securing this important debate. I declare an interest as an officer of the APPG.

I thank Watford Deaf Club, which was kind enough to host a hustings event for the general election in June 2024, and Helen Austin from the club, who has helped to identify some of the many challenges the deaf community face in day-to-day life. At the hustings event I was struck by two things: first, by how disappointing it is that society at large does not adequately consider integrating deaf people into our culture, systems and public life, resulting in a discernibly disadvantaged experience of some aspects of what hearing-able people take for granted; secondly, by how frustrated and upset some members of the community are about that first point. As politicians, we need to be very careful to be inclusive, accessible and available to all our residents. Currently, we are not. I say that with my hand up first, among many.

My local deaf club says:

“We are so glad that BSL was recognised by the DWP in 2003, and that the BSL Act was passed in 2022, but there are still so many issues that BSL users meet every day.”

I know from the comments of people at the club that the issues include BSL interpreter availability. It is great when interpreters are in the room at televised events, such as political conferences and briefings, but they are often hidden in a corner, meaning the angles of vision can be difficult for BSL users viewing events on TV. The deaf community would like interpreters to be front and centre, as they are in America and New Zealand. Their being tucked away makes the community feel like people are embarrassed of BSL and, by extension, them.

Signed TV programmes are put into ghettos, often at unhelpful times, and appear and disappear with no notice. That also makes the community feel second class. Not all programmes are subtitled, and smaller channels are not expected to provide them. Sometimes, automated subtitles do not keep up with the speech, a phenomenon known as—excuse my language—craptions. Certainly, not all programmes are signed. Members of the deaf community point out to me that they pay 100% of the TV license but do not have access to 100% of the programming content they contribute to.

Additionally—and here I confess guilt of my own—not all politicians subtitle their videos, making democracy inaccessible. My local deaf club says:

“We’d love BSL interpreted videos but subtitles would be a good start.”

It is best practice to make social media posts accessible. I try, but there is clearly room for improvement on my own feeds, and no doubt on others’ too.

The community has raised particular difficulties accessing public services. This was raised at the aforementioned hustings event, and it obviously continues to be an issue. NHS access is still unreliable and inaccessible. Let me read a quote:

“Deaf people have to chase staff in their second language to find out if anyone has bothered to book an interpreter for each and EVERY appointment (hospital and GP, or any other NHS service) and fight for one when they haven’t, despite this being their right under the Accessible Information Standard (AIS) so should be automatic. 

Health services being outsourced is another massive issue. They often find buildings are inaccessible—you have to speak into a box, no way to sign, and no-one seems to know if they are covered by the AIS and, if so, whose responsibility it is to find/book/pay for the Interpreter?”

MP and councillor surgeries have also been raised. How can the community access them and have BSL interpreters present? That is a great idea and I will take it on board for my own surgeries.

Communication with emergency services is a problem as well. My local deaf club has highlighted the case of a member who was sexually assaulted and, despite repeated requests, never had access to a BSL interpreter when talking to the police. That is shocking. It is disappointing that there is no longer a police liaison for the deaf community in my county of Hertfordshire. Many, if not all, of these problems can be solved through basic training and understanding.

It is vital that we take steps here in this place, and when dealing with the big charities as parliamentarians, to make sure that national efforts are made and connected with local communities; otherwise, we risk ignoring people as individuals, and we might create or reform services in ways that do not work for them.

Finally, it is important to acknowledge the great deal of concern among the community regarding the forthcoming benefits reforms. Although we await the final details, it is vital to acknowledge that we need to support the community to cover the additional costs of living with deafness. For example, having to pay for BSL interpreters in person or online is a requirement that impacts people whether they are employed or not. This has been an inspiring debate, and I look forward to taking action to address the issues raised today.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (in the Chair)]

I have to impose a three-minute formal time limit.