Winter Fuel Payment

Tuesday 10th September 2024 Westminster Hall

11:00

[Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)]

I remind everyone that this is a short debate, so everything is a bit squished, and most Members will not be able to make proper speeches. We have two Members down as intervening—we will seek clarity on the rest—and the Minister has 10 minutes to respond.

11:00

[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the Winter Fuel Payment.

I am pleased to see you in the Chair, Dr Huq. Charities, medics, academics, economists and constituents have evidence showing why the Government must ensure that mitigation is in place to protect pensioners in fuel poverty this winter. Winter fuel payments have provided a layer of protection, with £300 for the over-80s, which is insufficient for some, but excessive for those who need no energy support. Housing costs, food prices and energy costs have exacerbated the situation, leading to the hardest of choices for the 2.1 million pensioners in poverty—a legacy of the last Government. However, once people secure their home, they have to ensure that they can eat and keep warm, and we need the Government to provide an assurance that pensioners will have the help they need to stay warm and well. I know that the Government are working hard, but in 20 days the energy price cap will rise, and people are looking for answers, as am I.

Governments do not choose their inheritance, but they can determine the future. On discovering a £21.9 billion legacy deficit, the Chancellor was right to protect the economy and to prevent interest rates and mortgage rates from soaring in the way they did during the Truss-Kwarteng experiment. However, the winter fuel payment is in a different league.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Lady for bringing this matter forward, and I suspect there is no one here who does not support what she has said. Does she agree that the way this change is being foisted on our constituents, with no time for them even to save towards winter fuel bills, is reminiscent of the Women Against State Pension Inequality Campaign scandal, which the ombudsman said was a failing? Does she agree that the Government must consider putting off any changes until winter 2025, and that any changes should be targeted at those who can afford to lose the winter fuel payment?

[Rachael Maskell]

A Labour Government must always protect the poorest in our society.

The total saving for this year—£1.3 billion—is 0.1% of the total Treasury spend. However, when only 1.6 million pensioners not on pension credit need energy support, that drops to 0.04% of the Government’s budget, assuming that all get the top rate of £300, although most will get less. If we add in additional health and care costs, the saving shrinks again.

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough and Thornaby East) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. The Social Fund Winter Fuel Payment Regulations 2024 will take up to £300 per household from two groups of low-income pensioners: those eligible for pension credit who do not claim it and those who are just over the pension cliff edge but still living on very little. As I understand it, pension credit take-up rate is around 63% and, at best, will be around 68%. The saving to the public purse is predicated on that basis, but the savings will be wiped out if everyone eligible for pension credit took it up, which surely should be the goal. Does my hon. Friend agree that this proposal simply does not stack up?

[Rachael Maskell]

My hon. Friend has done the maths, and I think it speaks for itself.

The Chancellor cannot make this just an economic argument, because there is also a humanitarian cost. We need the capacity to find an “escape route”, as the former Chancellor, Ed Balls, stated, because people need a safety net. When Labour’s Gordon Brown came to power, he said he was

“simply not prepared to allow another winter to go by when pensioners are fearful of turning up their heating, even on the coldest winter days”.—[Official Report, 25 November 1997; Vol. 301, c. 780.]

Now, they are fearful. The winter fuel payment covered around a third of people’s bills, but it now covers only 12% to 17%. With the 10% rise in the price cap on 1 October, and without cost of living payments, pensioners are exposed to far greater risk. The average bill is £1,717, but older people are at home more, and more likely to live in homes that are less efficient, so they will pay even more.

[Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way and for securing this important and timely debate—this is an issue of concern across all our constituencies. On the economics, is she aware of the savings credit available to over-75s who are not in receipt of pension credit but who do have a small amount of savings? This is a Government payment and gives people access to other benefits as well, operating as a gateway in the same way as pension credit. Does my hon. Friend think the Government should do more to publicise that payment?

[Rachael Maskell]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for doing just that, and I trust that people will follow through.

[David Smith (North Northumberland) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way and for securing the debate, and I am sure she will agree with me on two points. The first is that it was the last Conservative Government, through their mismanagement of the economy and the nation’s finances, who got us into this financial black hole, and it is disappointing to see the Conservative particularly poorly represented in the debate. Secondly, does she agree that, as means-testing is introduced for the winter fuel payment as a result of that mismanagement, consideration should be given to pensioners in rural constituencies, such as my own in north Northumberland, who are living off-grid in energy-inefficient homes, and that we should target them through things such as the warm homes fund and the household support fund?

[Rachael Maskell]

I am grateful for that intervention, because the previous Government clearly cannot defend their record. I absolutely recognise that people in rural communities live in some of the draughtiest homes and, in Northumberland, some of the coldest too.

One constituent, who will just miss out on the winter fuel payment, has just been billed £34 more this month. He cannot pay it. That is how we know that things are worse now. As we have seen, pension increases are simply not covering the sharp rises in the cost of living as a result of things such as rent. This year in York average rents rose by 11.9%—or by 12.5% for a flat—exceeding the April pension triple lock rise by at least £382, and rents continue to rise.

Stripped of the winter fuel payment, the elderly poor will be exposed to greater financial risk. They have the hardest of all budgets to balance and no alternative choices. I welcome the extension of the household support fund, but the scale of demand means that it will be insufficient.

[Victoria Collins (Harpenden and Berkhamsted) (LD)]

I thank the hon. Lady for securing the debate. Constituent after constituent has written to me, including an elderly couple who have just recovered from cancer. They said that they will slip through the net and are considering going around on a bus in Harpenden and Berkhamsted to keep warm in the winter. Does the hon. Lady agree that the Government need carefully to consider those who are vulnerable and in need, so that they do not slip through the net, and that they should consider reversing their decision on the winter fuel payment?

[Rachael Maskell]

Real stories speak so powerfully, and that is obviously an issue we need to address. I will make some progress now.

I applaud the Work and Pensions Secretary for her mission to get 880,000 eligible people on to pension credit in time to receive the winter fuel payment. After people complete the 243-question application, there is a nine-week wait to process it. I know that the Secretary of State will change that in time, but it just shows what she is up against and how years of neglect have handed her a broken system. Charities say that that cannot be done in time. There is a reason why 37% of those eligible have not claimed pension credit: it is complex; there is pride; some people have dementia and complex needs; and others simply find the thought too stressful. But I ask people to please sign up.

With the winter fuel payment, people had some cover; now, they are exposed. Of course, many do not need it, but for those that do, it is a lifeline. According to the University of York briefing I had on Sunday, 47% of recipients spend it directly on their energy.

The Energy Security and Net Zero Secretary is again showing his leadership by driving down energy costs through his renewable sprint, with GB Energy and the retrofitting of homes. In the light of the report from the Committee on Fuel Poverty, highlighting how progress to achieve fuel security slowed under the last Government, he completely gets the opportunity of power. I simply urge him to achieve a social tariff, so that the oil and gas giants, profiteering to the tune of tens of billions, are made to help those wrapped in jumpers and blankets.

When we scrutinise the medical evidence, we see that the cost gets greater. The elderly cannot retain body heat. When the body is cold, it fights harder, causing hypertension, heart attacks and strokes. As blood pressure rises, hypothermia creeps in. As infection biomarkers show, viruses prey on the weakest, and respiratory illnesses are exacerbated by cold, damp air. If people choose heating over food, the lack of calories causes its own challenges. If a person has dementia, the situation is more complex, because some cannot judge their temperature. Other diseases, such as cancer, demand keeping warm.

All those issues create huge cost to the NHS, which is already in permacrisis. As the Health Secretary knows, the NHS is broken, and the only route out is prevention. In taking this protection to prevent fuel poverty, we need a safety net for those at risk. People should read the work of the chief medical officer, Sir Chris Whitty, and of Professor Sir Michael Marmot, which says everything we need to know about why mitigation is urgently needed.

[Calum Miller (Bicester and Woodstock) (LD)]

I thank the Member for securing the debate. I have more than 16,000 residents at risk of losing the winter fuel payment, so I am grateful for the opportunity to address it. In the light of her comments about the social tariff, does she agree that this announcement comes far too early and raises a great deal of concern for many of our residents? Should the Chancellor not have waited longer to address in her Budget the wider pressures she has identified, rather than putting so many constituents in fear of not being able to heat their homes this winter?

[Rachael Maskell]

The hon. Member makes a powerful point, and I will talk about the mitigation that absolutely must be there.

I talked to a director of public health this morning who said we should implement a warm homes on prescription scheme. Evidence from the Energy Systems Catapult and the NHS pilot in Gloucestershire found that such a scheme was value for money and helped people stay well. Government could really help.

Sadly, demand on GPs will rise, queues at A&Es will grow, more beds will be occupied in the NHS and social care will be placed under more demand. Tragically, according to University College London and the Institute of Health Equity, there were 4,950 excess winter deaths due to cold homes under the previous Government. I feel sick to the stomach each time I repeat that reality, because I cannot process how Governments past did not protect those vulnerable people—Labour must be different. We need mitigation, because we must protect those under our care. Otherwise, what is the point of power?

One constituent has had leukaemia. They need to put the heating on to keep warm, but they cannot afford to because it costs £300 a month. A recently widowed constituent, at the depth of their personal sadness, is now scared they will not survive the winter; they cannot afford their heating. Another constituent goes to bed at 5 o’clock to keep warm. One constituent told me he wears jumpers, a coat and a warm hat, but the air is still cold and damp. Then there is Rose, who is registered as severely vision-impaired and living alone, who said:

“I am a council tenant with no extra assets”.

She told me she was scared and “abandoned”—the winter fuel payment was her lifeline. I have many, many more accounts like that.

It is colder in the north, so costs are higher. The UK Health Security Agency recommends indoor temperatures should be at least 18°C. Some people need higher temperatures to keep warm. It is not just the physical impact that matters; people are anxious, tearful and scared each year.

[Anna Dixon (Shipley) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend for securing the debate. Like many in the House, I have been touched by some of the tragic correspondence I have received about those who are being impacted. I am concerned about women such as Barbara, a carer in my constituency who looks after her husband, who has dementia. I echo my hon. Friend’s comments about the need to protect people who have a disability, ill health or chronic conditions, because we know that fuel poverty and cold homes exacerbate those conditions. Does she agree that we must urge the NHS, in its winter planning guidance, to do more to work with others to tackle fuel poverty, and to target vulnerable people so they do not go cold this winter?

[Rachael Maskell]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s expertise, and she is right: the NHS is where this issue will present itself. It is already under huge pressure, so we have to find a way out of this issue.

We have all had the emails, the handwritten letters and the people queuing up, pleading—I certainly have. These pensioners have worked hard all of their lives. Some have put a little bit aside; others have not. Winter is always a challenge. This Government must have the capacity to find another way. People put their hope in Labour because, like me, we believe that it exists to fight for working people, to protect the poor and to seek justice, equality and fairness. I know that the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Emma Reynolds), does too.

With the economic imperative shredded and the medical case so powerful, the House of Lords Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee has provided a path out. It is unconvinced that the measures should be pushed through so urgently and wants scrutiny. It highlighted that the DWP needs to assess the risks of those eligible and ineligible for pension credit. While the triple lock fails to provide protection, the triple hit of the energy price cap rising by 10% on 1 October, the Tory freeze to the personal allowance and the removal of the winter fuel payment, without the cost of living payments, leaves people exposed. The Committee says that the measures could be delayed by changing the trigger dates. Delay is still possible.

The Committee also highlights that the Social Security Advisory Committee, which has a legal role in reviewing legislation before debate, will not meet until after the measures have passed. That means that MPs and Lords will not have the opportunity to debate its findings. We need these reports to debate the proposals. Furthermore, no impact assessment has been published.

As has already been said, according to academia fuel poverty is deeply rooted in inequality, disproportionately impacting on women and black and minority ethnic and disabled people, as well as the socio-economically disadvantaged. I have been contacted by many charities highlighting cancer, neurological conditions and others—and, of course, dementia too. Labour must always ensure that those with protected characteristics experience no detriment.

Our constituents are worried sick. They are frail and frightened. I see desperation in their eyes, and I hear it in their voices. As they grip my arm in the street and look at me, they know what I know—and if we are honest, what we all know. They are worried that they will be that statistic. Our duty is to take away that fear.

Mitigation is still possible: from delay to a social tariff or social prescribing, where consultants and GPs can authorise payments. I want to know what work the Government are doing in these areas. What measures are they looking at? What mitigation is possible, and by when? The household support fund will simply not be enough. The pension increase is insufficient. We need more, and we need it urgently.

I want this Government to do much better than the last, and I believe that, over time, we will, but winter is upon us now and we must reassure the fuel-poor pensioners that they will have the support they need. My constituents plead that I do something—my goodness, I am trying, but the Minister must too. Please, let us mitigate. Let us give people confidence and the comfort and care they need—the help and protection to keep them safe, warm and well this winter. If that cannot be done, then delay these measures. I rest my case.

[Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)]

I see that there is another name down to speak. We have actually run out of time for that, but the Clerk is advising that Neil Duncan-Jordan can intervene on the Minister—that is a possibility. I call the Minister, Emma Reynolds.

11:18

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Emma Reynolds)]

This is the first time I have served under your chairmanship, so thank you, Dr Huq. I start by thanking my hon. Friend the Member for York Central (Rachael Maskell) for providing the opportunity for this debate, and thanking her and others for their attendance.

The previous Government left us with unfunded and undisclosed spending commitments. It is very surprising that none of them is in their place for this debate. I may not know some of the new Conservative MPs, but I see empty places opposite me, although elsewhere there are hon. Members from other parties. Hon. Members are acutely aware of the £22 billion black hole in this year’s public finances left by the previous Government. The Office for Budget Responsibility has said that that represents

“one of the largest year-ahead overspends against…forecasts outside of the pandemic years”,

and the Chancellor only discovered this after the election. She has been clear that the decision about means-testing the winter fuel payment was not one that this Government expected or wanted to make, but given the in-year overspend that we uncovered, it is a necessary one. While protecting the poorest pensioners on the lowest incomes and with the greatest need, it is the right decision given the tough choices that we face.

To be very clear, I have spoken to a number of the hon. Members present about the Government’s decision, and there is actually fairly widespread agreement that the benefit should not be universal. Plenty of very wealthy pensioners who do not need it are getting transfers of £200—or £300, if they are over 80—into their bank accounts. It is right that we target the support at the poorest pensioners.

[Neil Duncan-Jordan (Poole) (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that the problem is that wherever we draw the line, there will always be those just above who end up being poorer because they do not gain the benefit and do not get the passported access that gaining the benefit gives? Those individuals end up being worse off than the people who do claim. That is one of the problems with the means-tested system.

[Emma Reynolds]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. For those just above the threshold, we have extended the household support fund. I urge hon. Members to work with me, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and the Deputy Prime Minister, who have written to local authorities to encourage them to ensure that those just above the threshold who are struggling get the support they need with bills. Obviously, that is discretionary, but we encourage local authorities to use that.

In addition, the Minister for Energy Consumers has met with the 15 largest energy providers and urged them to give all the support they can to those who are either likely to get into debt, or who are already into debt on their fuel bills. Support is available. There is also the warm homes discount, which is available to a larger cohort than those on pension credit. That will go live in October; again, I encourage hon. Members to join us in urging those struggling with their bills to apply for the warm homes discount, which is worth £150.

There are measures that the Government are taking. We are absolutely determined to boost the uptake of pension credit. It is a national scandal that up to 880,000 eligible pensioners are missing out on pension credit thanks to the previous Government. That is worth on average £3,900 per year, but obviously depends on personal circumstances. If people apply for pension credit and are successful, it passports them to all sorts of other benefits.

My hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes (Melanie Onn) rightly said that pensioners eligible for the savings credit part of pension credit are also eligible for pension credit, and therefore will be passported to receive winter fuel payments. It is quite a complex area, because it depends on whether someone is on the old or new state pension. Gordon Brown, when he was Chancellor, introduced the savings credit precisely to help the cohort of people that hon. Members are concerned about. George Osborne, on taking office, cut that benefit and made it unavailable for younger pensioners, so the cut off is 2016. That is something that we have been left; as my hon. Friend the Member for York Central said, it is not a legacy that we have chosen. I hope to work with all hon. Members present, who are clearly concerned about their constituents, to boost the uptake of pension credit.

[Andy McDonald]

I wholeheartedly agree that the Minister has inherited the most dreadful legacy from the absent Conservative party. Could she clarify for me the issue of take-up of pension credit? It currently sits at 63%; the ambition is 68%. What would happen to the proposed savings of £1.4 billion if pension credit was successfully rolled out to everybody entitled to it? Would those savings not disappear?

[Emma Reynolds]

The savings we have estimated—£1.4 billion this year and £1.5 billion in the next financial year—take into account a boost in the uptake of pension credit. We are absolutely determined to see an increase in that uptake, so the Secretary of State and I have already engaged with charities and local authorities. The Secretary of State spoke to Age UK and Citizens Advice about how we work together.

Last week was Pension Credit Week of Action. I encourage hon. Members to look at my X, although I know it is not so fashionable with everyone these days, for a video of a visit I did last week precisely to raise awareness of pension credit. Pension credit is not a simple process—we are looking at how to simplify it—but charities such as Age UK and Citizens Advice will help pensioners to go through it online. The online version is much simpler than the paper version, believe it or not, as the paper version has lots of questions that will not be applicable. We are also delivering a major campaign in print and broadcast media, including for people to reach out to retired families, friends and neighbours to urge them to check if they are eligible.

We will write to all pensioners about housing benefit; this is a question that one of my hon. Friends asked me yesterday. He had a constituent on housing benefit who was concerned that that would be taken into account as a form of income when the Government looked at his eligibility for pension credit. I confirm that that is not the case: housing benefit is not taken into account with regard to income. Please, I urge pensioners on housing benefit, who will be receiving a letter from the Department, to apply for pension credit.

As a Government, we are looking to merge the administration of housing benefit and pension credit to make that much simpler for people. The previous Government promised they would do that—some years ago, in fact—but were not going to until 2029. We think that that was slow decision making, and we are seeking to do it as soon as is operationally feasible. It is not a simple exercise, but it is something that we should do.

[Calum Miller]

I congratulate the Minister on the speed with which you have got up to speed in this fiendishly complex area. That in itself demonstrates a point. Do you not agree that this has been a premature decision, which has left many of our constituents deeply anxious about how they will heat their homes this winter? If you as the Minister are telling us that it is complex and not straightforward, and a difficult set of issues to navigate, how can we expect people worrying about illness, caring for their partners, or living on the poverty line because they are just above the pension credit limit, to get through this winter? Do you not agree that it would have been better to consider the issue in slightly slower time?

[Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)]

Order. The Clerk always reminds me that Members cannot use “you” because it means me, even when used with “Minister”. We have had it all morning.

[Emma Reynolds]

Dr Huq, I am sure Members will soon get used to the bizarre ways of this House.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bicester and Woodstock (Calum Miller) for his question. As I set out, the Chancellor was not expecting to do this but had to do it urgently because of the £22 billion black hole in our public finances. The black hole is in-year. What if we did not tackle it? Look at what happened under the previous Government, with Liz Truss’s mini-Budget: they put forward unfunded tax cuts and sent the markets into turmoil. Interest rates increased, putting mortgage rates and rents up, and that led to higher inflation.

People on fixed incomes, such as pensioners, would really suffer were we not to secure economic stability. Economic stability is the foundation of all that we want to do in Government. I say to pensioners and others across the country: this is a necessary step to make the improvements that we want in our NHS, bringing down waiting times, and in our schools, ensuring that we have the highest standards.

[Rachael Maskell]

Will the Minister give way?

[Emma Reynolds]

I am afraid I cannot give way at this point, because I only have a few seconds left, but I thank my hon. Friend once more for providing the opportunity for this debate.

Unfortunately, given the fiscal inheritance, we have had to make some very difficult decisions. We made other decisions in July as well, such as pausing the hospitals programme to review what we will do with it. There are other decisions to come. However, it is right that we take the difficult decisions to protect our economic stability, and to drive growth in our economy, higher tax receipts and improvements in our public services. We are absolutely determined as a Government to deliver a better NHS, with waiting times down, and better public services, which will benefit pensioners and people across our economy and our country.

Question put and agreed to.

11:30

Sitting suspended.