18:59 - The House divided: - Ayes: 281 / Noes: 313 - Question accordingly negatived.
19:16 - The House divided: - Ayes: 313 / Noes: 280 - Question accordingly agreed to.
The Secretary of State for International Trade and President of the Board of Trade (Dr Liam Fox)
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
Free and fair trade is fundamental to the prosperity of the United Kingdom—that is something on which both sides of the House can agree. As globalisation and new technology have changed the face of the world economy, the old barriers of distance and time have been eroded. In an age in which data, knowledge and expertise are traded as readily as cars and steel, even the simplest transactions are no longer confined to one country or even one continent. The United Kingdom is one of the world’s leading trading nations. The total value of our trade with the rest of the world is equivalent to over half our gross domestic product. The UK is the most popular destination for foreign direct investment in Europe, and last year FDI created or safeguarded an estimated 108,000 new jobs. British companies operate across the globe with an international reputation for quality and expertise that few nations can match. That has enabled us to boost the total value of our exports by around 14% in the past year to some £617 billion.
Our current success is built on a long and proud trading tradition. From our unilateral adoption of free trade in the 1840s to our instrumental role in founding the World Trade Organisation, the United Kingdom has been at the heart of international trading innovations. Often, we have led the way, using our economic and diplomatic influence to guide the world towards a free trading future, confident in the benefits that the rules-based global trading system can bestow. For more than four decades, the United Kingdom has been unable to fulfil that leadership role, but soon this country will once again be able to pursue an independent trade policy, whether unilaterally or within bodies such as the WTO. We will be able to unlock some of the key areas of global growth, to offer preferential market access to developing nations of our choosing, to develop closer economic links with our Commonwealth partners and to influence, as we once did, the future of international trade.
Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)
One of the real problems with the EU in trade agreements was the lack of transparency and openness. Does the Secretary of State believe that we will be able to be much more open and transparent when we become involved in getting trade deals going between this country and other parts of the world?
Dr Fox
I do. As the hon. Lady knows, this Bill is not concerned with new trading agreements, but when the Government come forward with the mechanics for such agreements, I believe that it will be in the interests of all to have as open and wide a consultation as possible—perhaps even more open than has been traditional in other countries.
Mr Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con)
There has been much speculation over several weeks about the possibility of the United Kingdom staying in the single market or the customs union. The Secretary of State talks about an exciting world in which we will be able to do trade deals with a number of other countries. Would we be able to do that if we stayed in the single market or the customs union?
Dr Fox
We know that we would not be able to do that if we were constrained by the customs union, but I say to my hon. Friend that we need to look at where the growth in global trade is going to come from. According to the International Monetary Fund, about 90% of global growth in the next 10 to 15 years will occur outside the continent of Europe. It therefore makes sense for the United Kingdom to have the freedom to maximise our ability to trade with those countries whose economies are growing the fastest, if we want to generate the income that this country will need for the spending projects that we all seem to value.
Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab)
This House voted overwhelmingly to begin the process of implementing the referendum decision. Since then, we have had two major Bills—this being the second—where the Order Paper looks as though the main aim is to interrupt the Government’s carrying out that intention to follow through on the referendum decision. In the Secretary of State’s opinion, what image does that give to people outside, given that 75% of the electorate now want the Government to get on with the job of taking us out of the EU?
Dr Fox
I was encouraged to hear reports yesterday that the Leader of the Opposition had made it clear that there was no chance of continuing in the single market or the customs union. It was therefore with some disappointment that I saw the reasoned amendment today, which seems to go in an entirely different direction. I am not sure what the reasoned amendment was drafted for, but it does not seem to have been drafted for this Bill, given that it concentrates on future free trade agreements, which are not covered in the Bill at all.
Several hon. Members rose—
Dr Fox
I will give way later.
The Government believe that we have an unprecedented opportunity to regain our former influence in trade policy. The United Kingdom will be able to put in place a trade policy that acts in our own interest and that of our friends and allies, but trade is not only about self-interested commercial gain. It is also about nurturing developing economies, eliminating poverty and building partnerships for the future. Closer to home, trade ensures that British consumers can access quality goods at a reasonable price, and foreign investment creates jobs and protects livelihoods the length and breadth of the country. Fundamentally, we will have the power to choose our own economic destiny and chart our own course to a brighter, more prosperous future.
Yet for all the high political ideals, we recognise that trade is carried out not by Governments but by individual enterprises. To operate, they require certainty and stability. Confidence is a very valuable commodity indeed, and the UK has been economically successful in part because our stability, our labour market flexibility and skills, and our regulatory environment all inspire confidence in investors and international firms. That is why we attracted the highest number of new foreign direct investment projects in our history last year.
Graham Stringer (Blackley and Broughton) (Lab)
The Secretary of State mentioned increasing trade with the developing world. Does he agree that the European Union has been the greatest single mechanism for exporting poverty to the third world, with its high tariffs on foodstuffs, and that when we leave the European Union we will be able to give our own consumers the benefit of cheaper citrus fruits, as well as helping poorer farmers in Africa and elsewhere?
Dr Fox
Where I would particularly agree with the hon. Gentleman is on the European Union applying high tariffs to value-added exports from developing countries. In other words, those countries are able to export basic commodities into the European Union with zero tariffs, but if they try to add value, they face considerable penalties. One of the areas that I would like the United Kingdom to explore as we leave the European Union is our ability to help those countries to export with added value, so that they can trade their way out of poverty rather than depend on aid. I believe that such a policy would carry widespread support across the United Kingdom.
Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)
As the Secretary of State says, the Bill is about existing trade. It will need a legislative consent motion from the Scottish Government, but the Scottish Government say that it is not fit for purpose in its current form. He is probably also aware that yesterday the Holyrood Finance and Constitution Committee, including three Tory MSPs, voted to withhold a legislative consent motion for the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill. What will he and other Ministers do to ensure that both Bills are fit for purpose, so that they can get an LCM from Holyrood?
Several hon. Members rose—
Dr Fox
I will give way later.
Before we can begin to forge new trading relationships, we must act to prevent disruption to our existing trade environment. As the Prime Minister has said, our ambition is to forge a deep and special new partnership with our European friends and allies; we will retain the bonds of friendship, security and trade that have united Britain and Europe for so long. If we want to achieve that, before we leave the European Union we must put in place the essential legal powers and structures that will enable the UK to operate an independent trade policy. That is what our trade legislation is designed to achieve. In this, as in all our legislation, the Department for International Trade will be guided by what delivers the greatest economic advantage to the UK and ensures the continued confidence of our partners and allies.
The Bill contains six delegated powers allowing the Government to make regulations to support and develop their trade policy. Two of the powers allow the Government to amend primary legislation; they relate to ensuring the continuity of EU trade agreements into a UK-only context and to the collection of exporter information by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. Both powers are subject to significant restrictions on how they can be used. The trade agreement continuity powers are limited in scope; in particular, they can be used to amend primary legislation only when it forms part of retained EU law. We intend to use the powers to make necessary amendments to domestic legislation as part of the transition project. By taking those powers, we can be sure that we have the ability to implement efficiently all obligations of existing trade agreements in our new context.
The EU’s trade agreements, which we intend to transition and which are within the scope of this Bill, will have already been scrutinised by Parliament’s EU Committees. Free trade agreements that the UK has already ratified have also been through the normal parliamentary scrutiny process. The Bill simply aims to enable us to continue those existing trading arrangements, allowing us to provide certainty and to reassure international partners, businesses and investors.
Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con)
I am glad to hear everything that my right hon. Friend has said not only today, but throughout his tenure as Secretary of State. I am so glad that he is still in that post and that he will carry on.
Will my right hon. Friend confirm that we are running a trade deficit with the other 27 member states of the EU that has been accumulating for a long time? It increased from £71 billion to £82 billion in one year alone, which gives some indication of the fact that we are now looking outwards towards the rest of the world and that continuing to pursue a policy of exclusively working in the context of a strategy run by the EU Commission does not work for us.
Dr Fox
First, the fact that there is a large EU trade surplus with the UK is one reason why it is in the interests of the EU to want a good and open trading agreement with the UK. Secondly, on my hon. Friend’s point about the direction of travel, it is certainly true that the proportion of UK exports that go to the EU has diminished from some 54% at the beginning of the millennium to about 42% today, so it is already true that the UK is exporting into other growing parts of the global economy.
Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)
I want to bring the Secretary of State back to legislative consent. He gave some advice to the SNP Members, but he has more difficulty in Northern Ireland, where we have not had a functioning Assembly for a year. That is totally frustrating for the people of Northern Ireland, but how do the Government think they are going to obtain legislative consent from the Northern Ireland Assembly—or are they preparing for direct rule in Northern Ireland? It is one or the other.
Dr Fox
The hon. Lady gives me a good opportunity to pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (James Brokenshire), who stood down from the post of Secretary of State for Northern Ireland yesterday, for his work in trying to achieve a deal in Northern Ireland. We all hope that there will be a functioning Government that the UK Government are able to deal with, because it is in the best interests of all concerned in Northern Ireland that we get a functioning democratic Government in Stormont.
John Redwood
Will my right hon. Friend confirm that all the countries that have trade deals with the EU either have indicated that they would like to have a similar agreement with the UK or have certainly not indicated the opposite, so we can look forward to those deals novating, or transferring, to us?
Dr Fox
I can indeed confirm that there is considerable interest in the continuation of those trading agreements with the UK, for one overwhelming reason: we are the fifth biggest economy in the world and provide a large market to countries that want to trade with us, so they have every interest in wanting to continue those agreements.
Several hon. Members rose—
Dr Fox
I have given way a number of times, so I will make some progress.
The new legislation has four primary aims. First, as I have already mentioned, it aims to prevent disruption to UK businesses and consumers. I alluded earlier to the importance of the UK’s ability to access other markets across the world. Currently, as a member of the European Union, we are part of about 40 free trade agreements across the world, as my right hon. Friend just mentioned. Maintaining that market access for UK companies is a priority. That is why, as we leave the EU, we seek continuity and have therefore been public about our aim to enter into our own agreements with our partner countries that maintain the effects of the free trade agreements currently in place with the EU. The Bill will create new powers to make regulations, where required, to ensure that we can fully implement these free trade agreements and our other existing trade agreements as we leave the EU. By ensuring continuity in our existing trade arrangements, we will provide certainty and stability for workers, consumers, businesses, and our international trading partners.
Secondly, we want to maintain UK businesses’ guaranteed rights to access global public procurement markets worth approximately £1.3 trillion per year. The GPA, or government procurement agreement, is a plurilateral agreement within the framework of the WTO that aims to create an open market for Government procurement among participating nations. They include many of the world’s major economies, such as the United States, Japan and Canada, as well as the EU states. Currently, we participate in the GPA through our membership of the EU. It is worth pointing out that the UK creates around £68 billion of procurement opportunities within the GPA annually—over 25% of the total EU offering. After we leave the EU, the UK will need to join the GPA as an independent member, not only to safeguard continuity of access for UK companies overseas, but to ensure that we can tap into international expertise and obtain the best deal for the taxpayer here in the UK. The powers in clause 1 will allow us to make regulations implementing our obligations under the GPA as an independent member, reflecting our new status within the GPA. Parliament will be able to scrutinise the terms of our membership of the GPA through the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010 before we join.
Mr Jonathan Djanogly (Huntingdon) (Con)
I totally support my right hon. Friend’s aims in clause 1 and the need for us to re-engage with the GPA. The clause also shows how vital it is that we leave the EU with agreements in place, rather than just falling off a cliff. We are not a member of the GPA through our membership of the EU, and we will have to rejoin in our own right—in the same way as we will have to re-engage with our schedules, which we have through the EU rather than in our own right.
Dr Fox
As a doctor, I have never thought that falling off a cliff is sensible. It is certainly clear that it is beneficial to the UK to have a number of agreements in place, which is why we have introduced the legislation—to provide maximal continuity and security. That is the whole point of the legislation. My hon. Friend is correct that we will have to do the same exercise with our schedules in Geneva, but if I may make one slight correction, we are already an independent member of the WTO in our own right and we simply operate our schedules through the EU. We are not a member of the WTO by virtue of our membership of the EU in the same way as we are with the GPA.
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
Given that the Bill covers only existing EU trade agreements, will the Secretary of State guarantee that there will definitely be a second trade Bill in due course to cover new trade deals with non-EU countries? If he cannot guarantee that, will he accept that it is even more important that the openness and transparency that he claims to support are reflected in this Bill? One way to do that would be to ensure that, like the European Parliament and the US Congress, this Parliament has the right to reject trade agreements. The negative procedure does not provide a real opportunity to say no.
Dr Fox
As I think I already said, we will use separate vehicles for new free trade agreements, and we will introduce a separate proposal on consultation. I am keen not to get to the position we got to in, for example, the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, where a whole negotiation was undertaken only to find there was insufficient public support. It is much better to seek support for a trade agreement mandate by having as wide a consultation as possible across the country with various ranges of stakeholders before we enter such negotiations. That is more democratic, and the process is more efficient. Consumers will in future take a greater interest in trade agreements than they have perhaps taken in the past, so consultation is also politically prudent.
Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)
The Secretary of State is absolutely right that the Bill will prevent anybody from falling off any sort of cliff edge. One of our most important trading relationships is, of course, with Canada, which is covered by the comprehensive economic and trade agreement. Will he confirm that the Canadian Government have committed themselves to reaching a free trade agreement with the United Kingdom once we leave the European Union and have established a joint ministerial council with us? Contrary to what we hear from some who seem unable to accept the result, many of our bigger trading partners, such as Canada, have quite a lot of enthusiasm for ensuring that we have a new relationship that perhaps goes further than the current arrangement through the EU.
Dr Fox
I confirm that we have had very positive discussions with the Canadian Government, and I also confirm it is our intention, as we have said, to ratify CETA before we leave the European Union. Once we have left the European Union, CETA will form a good basis for any future agreement with Canada, while taking advantage of the increased trading freedoms the United Kingdom might have, unrestricted by elements such as the data localisation restrictions that are currently placed on us by the EU’s negotiating position.
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
This Bill is a consequence of the Government’s decision to leave the customs union. Will the Secretary of State explain why, as we learned from his colleague the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, the decision was taken without any economic assessment of the consequences of leaving the customs union? Will he now set out why he thinks the gains will outweigh any potential losses?
Dr Fox
I hate to correct the right hon. Gentleman, but this Bill is a consequence of the British public’s vote to leave the European Union. Leaving the European Union means that we are leaving our current trading agreements. If we want stability to continue for our businesses, we have to put the legislative framework in place for it to do so. That is exactly what we are doing.
Several hon. Members rose—
Dr Fox
I have given way a number of times. I will give way again later.
It is worth reminding the House that, on a number of occasions, we have made a commitment that decisions about public services, such as the national health service, will be made by UK Governments, including the devolved Administrations, and not by our trade partners. As we leave the EU, the UK will continue to ensure that rigorous protections for the NHS and other public services are included in all trade agreements to which it is a party.
The third aim of the Trade Bill, together with the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Bill, is to create a new UK trade remedies framework overseen by an independent body, the Trade Remedies Authority. It is important to remember that free trade does not mean trade without rules. Free trade is not a free-for-all. Trade remedies are a vital safety net for firms operating in the global marketplace, protecting them from injury caused by unfair trading practices such as dumping or trade-distorting subsidies, as well as from unforeseen surges of imports.
After its creation, the TRA will be required to prepare both an annual report on the performance of its functions and an annual statement of accounts. Those documents will be laid before the House of Commons, ensuring that Parliament is able to fully scrutinise the TRA’s functions and financial activity.
Gareth Snell (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab/Co-op)
I am sure, when the Secretary of State visited Stoke-on-Trent, he heard from Wade Ceramics about the importance of a proper trade remedy body. May I press him regarding the report in today’s Daily Telegraph that when trade remedies are considered, they will be weighed against any potential negative impact on a broader free trade deal? In the case of ceramics, we need protection from Chinese tiles and Chinese tableware. Can the Minister assure me that if that has an impact on a larger trade deal with China, British industry will be protected before trade deals are put in place?
Dr Fox
I totally agree with the hon. Gentleman on the need to set up such trade remedies, so I hope he will support the Bill today. Without the Bill, we would be unable to have such trade remedies as we leave the European Union. It is essential that we have a mechanism to protect the United Kingdom and that we do not allow unfair dumping or subsidy to harm UK businesses. That is why we are setting up the TRA. The details will be set out after the passage of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Bill. He is right that we need to have such trade remedies in place, but I reiterate that, if we do not approve Second Reading today, we will not have the ability to create those remedies to protect British business. If Opposition Members oppose the Trade Bill, they will be opposing the very measures that will be able to protect British businesses and British jobs.
James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend East) (Con)
The good burghers of Southend will be glad that the Secretary of State is delivering the Brexit that they supported wholeheartedly. Will he confirm that the Trade Remedies Authority will be wholly independent? Will he give us an indication of how quickly some of the detail will come together once the Bill is enacted? What forms of consultation will there be on how to set up the Trade Remedies Authority, given that we have so little experience of trade remedies other than through the EU?
Dr Fox
As my hon. Friend knows, detail on the implementation of the Trade Remedies Authority will be in secondary legislation subsequent to the passing of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Bill, which we debated in this House last night. The Trade Bill merely creates the framework for creating the Trade Remedies Authority, which will be an arm’s length authority. These issues are often commercially sensitive and market sensitive, so it is important that we are seen not to have overt political intervention. Likewise, if we want to be WTO compliant, we have to be as transparent as possible. We will want to consult further, but we want to set out the details as soon as possible.
Closely related to that is the Bill’s fourth aim. We want to enable HMRC to collect and share essential data on the United Kingdom’s trade flows, which will enable DIT and bodies such as the Trade Remedies Authority to perform essential trade functions such as providing evidence to WTO panels that rule on trade disputes. It will also provide a vital insight into our export performance during our development of trade policy.
Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
Can the Secretary of State give us an idea of how much more resource HMRC will get so it can do that job of collecting data? Will the Government expand the number of HMRC offices, rather than reducing the number of offices, as he and his Government are currently doing?
Dr Fox
My understanding is that HMRC was given extra resource in advance, before we reached this point. It seems strange that we do not already collect this data. If we want better-informed policy, we need better datasets. It is merely a sensible option for any Government to collect this data as widely as possible, so that we operate on the basis of better information.
Before I further explain the process, this is a good juncture to correct some of the misunderstandings that seem to have grown, deliberately or otherwise, around the Trade Bill. As I have explained, the Bill contains two powers that allow the Government to amend primary legislation: the power in clause 2 to implement the trade agreements that the UK adopts; and the power in clause 7 to allow HMRC to collect the export information that the hon. Lady has just mentioned. Both these powers are limited in scope and restricted in their use. Contrary to the belief of some in this House and beyond, seemingly including the shadow Secretary of State for International Trade, this Bill does not legislate for powers that could be used when implementing new free trade agreements with countries with which the EU does not have a free trade agreement before exit day. An article in The Guardian—I do not avidly read it, but this was brought to my attention—written by him incorrectly asserted that the Government would only be obliged to present the text of new trade agreements under the convention of the Ponsonby rule. As I mentioned earlier, the scrutiny of new agreements requiring ratification is ensured by the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010.
Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State confirm that the 2010 Act proceeds by negative resolution and it is not open to any debate, any scrutiny, any vote and may not even be amended? Therefore, the sort of scrutiny that most Members of this place would expect to take place for any new trade agreements will not occur in the way he has led the House to believe.
Dr Fox
This Bill is not about trade agreements; I can only explain it to the hon. Gentleman—I cannot understand it for him. This Bill is about continuity of existing agreements. In any case, the 2010 Act effectively gives the Commons the power to block ratification, notwithstanding the fact that we have already scrutinised these agreements in the past. He ought to know that, as the 2010 Act was passed by the Labour Government and he voted for it.
There is no attempt here to bypass parliamentary scrutiny or to obtain sweeping new authority for the Government over this country’s trading structures. Rather, the Government seek powers in clause 2 that we think necessary for us fully to implement in UK law non-tariff obligations of the transitioned existing EU-third country trade agreements that we adopt. Any tariff-related obligations in such transitioned agreements will be implemented using powers conferred by the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Bill, which had its Second Reading in this House yesterday.
Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State answer three questions? First, on the existing agreements the EU has with third countries, which he says will be transposed, will he guarantee that those 65 agreements will be transposed by the exit day? Secondly, this Bill does touch on new agreements, to the extent that the Trade Remedies Authority will have a locus and oversight on those agreements. He was part of the campaign that promised that we would have all these new agreements, with Canada, the US and Japan, and would immediately start negotiating with all these countries. It is right, is it not, that none of those negotiations has actually started?
Dr Fox
I look forward to the hon. Gentleman’s extension of that intervention in his speech. Let me deal with the last of those issues. He is well aware that, under our duty of sincere co-operation, while we remain a member of the EU we are not able to negotiate new trade agreements. We will want, first, to get continuity of the existing agreements, which number about 40. We will want to have as many of them as possible—all of them, if possible—transitioned before we leave the EU. I absolutely confirm that. We already have 14 working groups with 21 countries in preparation for future negotiations in the trade agreements that we want to take advantage of when we leave the EU.
Dr Fox
I will make some progress.
When the UK enters directly into its own arrangements with our partner countries, the Government will seek, as far as possible, to maintain the effects of the existing arrangements they have with the EU. This means we will be able to deliver the continuity that businesses, consumers and our trading partners, and this House of Commons, desire. It will maintain market access and allow us to continue to abide by our obligations to our international trading partners. The UK has used the European Communities Act 1972 to implement existing EU trade agreements and the GPA. The European Union (Withdrawal) Bill will repeal the 1972 Act. This means that the UK will require a new way to ensure that our transitioned agreements are fully implemented in UK law and remain operable over time. Clauses 1, 2, 3 and 4 of the Trade Bill will give the Government the necessary powers to do so in relation to the non-tariff elements of those transitioned agreements, including amending legislation, where necessary. They will also grant these powers to the devolved Administrations to ensure that they, too, can implement transitioned agreements and reflect the UK’s independent GPA membership in areas that fall within their devolved competence.
The powers to implement free trade agreements will be available only if the partner country has signed an FTA with the EU before exit day. In other words, and as I said earlier, this Bill does not legislate for powers that could be used when implementing new FTAs with countries with which the EU does not have an FTA before exit day.
Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State explain to the House why, if this is just to roll over existing FTAs, he will need the power to change primary legislation?
Dr Fox
We have said that where we needed to change legislation to bring into UK law the non-tariff elements of existing agreements, we would do so, but these powers exist for no other reason. They are very limited, and I make it very clear today that they are limited to these particular circumstances.
Mr Grieve
I wish my right hon. Friend well in this task of ensuring continuity of the trade relationships we currently have within the EU. I fully understand the point he has made about the fact that this is about those relationships and not new ones, but does the delegated powers memorandum not make it absolutely clear that the powers are broad enough to enable not just the implementation of these agreements, but their substantial amendment, including the creation of new obligations? Does that not then make it sensible—I urge him to do this—for the Government to look, as the Bill progresses, at ways to ensure that those can be properly scrutinised, because the methods we currently have of the European Scrutiny Committee and the European Parliament will no longer exist? That is a relevant issue for this House, and if the Government were to look at it in a sensible light, the Bill would be improved.
Dr Fox
I am sure that in Committee my right hon. and learned Friend will again wish to bring his expertise to bear, but I say to him again that the Government do not seek to make any substantial changes to the agreements that already exist. There are some unavoidable changes—for example, the disaggregation of tariff-rate quotas—that we will have to introduce, but they will simply be done to bring the greatest continuity possible to arrangements. As I have said several times, when it comes to new agreements, the Government will bring forward new proposals, where we can ensure that there will be adequate scrutiny of any new agreements that we want with countries once we have left the EU.
Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)
I wish just to push the Secretary of State on one point. What will be the process in this House if, for example, the South Korea trade deal, which is currently an EU trade deal, is transposed to UK law to be a UK trade deal and the South Koreans decide to renegotiate the deal on Scotch whisky? What goes through this House?
Dr Fox
Having had substantial discussions already with the South Koreans, I can tell the House that there is no plan to do anything such as the hon. Gentleman suggests. That is why I say to him that this is not about new trade agreements; it is about continuity of what we have at the present time.
Several hon. Members rose—
Dr Fox
I will make a little progress.
The Government are taking a similar approach on the transitional trade agreements and on the GPA, looking to maintain the guaranteed access created by our current participation to ensure stability and continuity for UK businesses. As I mentioned earlier, the UK participates in the GPA through our membership of the European Union. Clearly, if we are to retain the benefits of the GPA, we will soon have to join as an independent participant. This legislation will enable the UK Government to make any changes required in domestic law as part of the UK becoming an independent member of the GPA and provide the power to make changes in future to reflect new countries joining the GPA or existing countries withdrawing from it. It is in the UK’s best interests for its businesses to continue to have guaranteed access to the GPA’s global procurement markets and for us to continue to work with our partners in the GPA to address trade barriers within the government procurement sector. We intend the UK to join the GPA, while maintaining our existing terms of participation. Clause 1 will allow the UK to legislate to reflect our new independent GPA status.
John Redwood
Will the Secretary of State confirm that a helpful and comprehensive trade facilitation agreement came into effect at the WTO in spring last year? It should be reassuring to all those who are worried about possible disruption to UK-EU trade—pending any agreement—that a lot of it will be governed by those helpful provisions because we and the EU will of course remain members of the WTO.
Dr Fox
My right hon. Friend is right. That agreement was the first multilateral trade agreement for decades, which shows how difficult it is to get such multilateral agreements. It does reduce friction for customs arrangements worldwide, but although, as he said, the benefits are great, it is still in the best interests of the UK to come to an open and comprehensive trading agreement with the EU itself.
The Bill provides powers for HMRC to collect and share trade data, as has been mentioned. Those powers include the one in clause 7 that allows primary legislation to be amended to provide for HMRC to collect exporter information. Clause 8 will grant HMRC the authority to share data with those bodies that require those data to carry out a range of public functions relating to trade. Currently, HMRC collects a range of data from import and export declarations that is shared with the European Commission, as well as with other Departments and public bodies, under information gateways governed by EU law. Such gateways will, of course, cease to apply once we leave the European Union, and numerous functions that are currently carried out by the European Commission will be transferred back to the United Kingdom. HMRC will therefore need to be granted the legal authority to request data from exporters and share that data to ensure the continued smooth operation of the UK’s trade frameworks and clear and informed policy making from my Department, as I said to the hon. Member for Livingston (Hannah Bardell). The powers in clauses 7 and 8 will grant that authority, and nothing more.
Lady Hermon
Thank goodness I am blessed with bundles of patience. I am exceedingly grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way. I am really worried about clause 7, which is extremely broad and gives enormous powers to HMRC. The Secretary of State will be well aware that there are hundreds of farms that straddle the border in Northern Ireland. Under clause 7, if those farms trade in machinery and cattle across the border—as they do daily—they will be obliged to give information to HMRC. The clause says that “any person” may be asked for such information. Would Sinn Féin MPs who represent border constituencies be obliged to give HMRC such information, as well as farmers?
Dr Fox
When we discussed this proposal with the Treasury and HMRC, we were keen to ensure that it applied to information related only to those elements needed to continue what we currently do and to gain the information that we believe we need for better trade policy making. HMRC was insistent that before it made any changes we restricted the power as much as possible, because HMRC did not want to become a huge bureaucratic organisation, as the hon. Lady suggests. We intend to define the power tightly when we set the regulations. I have had discussions with HMRC on the basis that we will not want to carry out a hugely bureaucratic exercise. Nevertheless, it makes sense for us to know exactly how much we are importing and exporting and which businesses are doing that. That is the basis for good future policy making.
The time will come when we can begin to forge new trading relationships around the world, building a truly global, outward-facing Britain—a country at the very heart of international trade—but this Bill is not about those new relationships. Instead, it is about preserving and ensuring continuity. We want to protect the access to global markets that is so vital to thousands of British businesses. We want to abide by our obligations to those economies that have already negotiated free trade agreements and other trade agreements with the European Union. The Bill grants us the powers necessary to achieve those aims.
We present the Bill for Second Reading with an eye to the future. It is explicitly designed to prepare for our departure from the European Union, while building the foundations that will facilitate successful future trading relations with the wider world. I hope Members from all parties recognise the value of the Bill and the measures it contains, as well as its importance in helping to provide much-needed certainty to businesses and consumers as our departure from the EU next year approaches. Trade is an issue that transcends party politics: it is an intrinsic part of our very way of life and our prosperity. The Bill is just the beginning, but it is a first step towards a stable, secure and prosperous future for the United Kingdom and our friends beyond.
Barry Gardiner
I will happily give way to my hon. Friend once I have answered our hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham East (Mr Leslie).
As we will no longer be a signatory to the European treaties and no longer come under their territorial scope, we cannot formally be a member of the EU’s customs union. As the EU’s treaties currently stand, only EU member states, and territories attached to those states, are actually members of the customs union. However, it is possible for the UK to enter into a customs union with the EU after Brexit, whereby we choose to have a joined external tariff and no tariffs on trade between the EU and the UK. That would, in effect, mirror the current arrangements. I think that my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham East, like me, will have been interested to find that provision to do just that was incorporated in clause 31 of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Bill, which we debated last night.
Barry Gardiner
No, I am not telling the House that at all. I am happy to try to answer not only the letter of the Secretary of State’s question, but the spirit. Those on the Labour Front Bench have always tried to make it clear that we recognise the benefits of the single market to this country, and the benefits that traditionally the customs union has brought and that a customs union could bring. However, we are focused in the negotiations on achieving the benefits, rather than putting red lines around the structures, which is what the Government have done, and ruling those off the table.
The Minister for Trade Policy (Greg Hands)
The hon. Gentleman is making some important points, but like his Front-Bench colleague he is conflating future trade agreements with current trade agreements. To the best of my knowledge, no one we are speaking to is seeking significant revision of those trade agreements. They are speaking to us to roll over the existing trade agreements, which has nothing to do with a future free trade agreement, which I think the hon. Gentleman is deliberately conflating.
Ian Murray
So the Minister is telling the House that the 65 trade agreements currently between the EU and other countries will be grandfathered across to UK law without any changes. I am sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker, but that is utterly, completely impossible.
Greg Hands
I am sorry, but the hon. Gentleman has misquoted me. I am not saying that. What I am saying is that none of those third parties is seeking significant changes to those agreements. I am not saying that we will be successful in rolling over all those agreements. We are seeking to be successful in doing so, and that is a very different matter.
Ian Murray
Whether it be mutton flaps, which my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) talked about in the case of Samoa, the Scotch whisky industry, car parts or anything that this country currently exports, the people who have been watching this debate tonight should look at the television, rewind to 5.15 and listen to the Minister’s two responses. His first response was, “Nothing will change.” His second response was, “Nothing significant will change.” Whatever the process is, and whatever does change, this Parliament will get absolutely no say.
The Minister is right, and the Secretary of State hid behind this as well. The Secretary of State says, “Everyone is wrong today because we are talking about current trade deals.” So am I. Let us take South Korea as an example. The South Korea trade deal took a long time to conclude. A significant proportion of the deal affects the Scotch whisky industry—an industry that is doing rather well at the moment. If the South Koreans decide that that part of the agreement is not quite what they want, but this Government decide, “It’s okay; it is an existing trade deal so it is covered by this Bill. We will grandfather it across, but we will renegotiate that part,” this Parliament, I representing my constituents and people who represent the food and drink industry in this country will get no significant say. That is exactly what the Bill does.
Ian Murray
The Minister can maybe clarify when he sums up the debate, and I hope he does, because he has created a bit of confusion.
I say this in the greatest of spirit to my own Front Benchers. I do not disagree with their movement on retaining the customs union and the single market during the transitional phase, but I do disagree with them on this. I say, with all due respect, that is no difference in principle, or even in practice, between a customs union and the customs union. I just hope that at some point, somebody looks at the significant detriment that this country will suffer from ceasing participation in both the single market and the customs union, and realises it is bad for the country.
I do not say that to be rebellious or to undermine the Front Bench. I say it as a constructive comment from someone who disagrees with the current policy of my own Front Benchers. I hope we are able to move on that, because it is not about membership of the single market or the customs union; it is about the participation in them. If the EU decides that the negotiating position should be a certain way for this country, it will fall on future generations to take that burden.
It is beyond my comprehension that the Government have taken off the negotiating table participation in the single market and the customs union. The European Union (Withdrawal) Bill, the customs Bill—the ways and means Bill that we debated yesterday—and the Trade Bill that we are debating today, all boil down to one singular point. We could have extended our Christmas and new year holiday by another week, two weeks or three weeks by staying in the single market and the customs union, because all this legislation would be completely and utterly unnecessary. It would solve the Northern Ireland border problem, so the north-south problems on the island of Ireland would be resolved. It would solve the east-west problem between the island of Ireland and the United Kingdom. It would solve the problem with our having to renegotiate the trade deals between the EU and the UK—the very trade deals that may not have any significant changes, but may have significant changes—and it would take away the unmitigated, unprecedented and unnecessary Executive power grab from this Parliament to Downing Street that, in my view, is completely and utterly unacceptable.
I shall finish by saying why I think the Minister and the Government are on the wrong track. The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, appearing before the Foreign Affairs Committee, talked about 50 new staff to enable us to enhance our embassies across the European Union to create bilateral trade deals when we leave the European Union. That is not 50 new staff at all; it is a reallocation of Foreign Office resources. It is new staff in those particular offices, but they are being reallocated in some way or other from other offices, and therefore our bilateral trade potential with third party countries outwith the EU is diminished because resources are having to be put into bilateral negotiations with individual EU member states. That surely shows that the best way for us to move on is to stay in the customs union.
I tabled my amendment to the Bill yesterday to be published today not in any way to undermine anyone and not in any way to undermine my own Front Bench, but merely to continue to make the point that for the future prosperity of this country, to try to turn a very bad situation of our leaving the EU into not quite such a bad situation, we should continue to participate in the two things that would take away all these issues—the single market and the customs union.
Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)
Members have talked about free trade, but Brexit is of course the biggest reversal of free trade in the UK’s history. Margaret Thatcher was a great proponent of the single market, which is the probably the greatest example of free trade in the world. She also did not like referendums and quoted Attlee, who said that they were the instrument of demagogues and dictators because of their use by Hitler. Unfortunately, we now appear to be withdrawing from the customs union and the single market. We are withdrawing from the EU, making ourselves much weaker in negotiations with other countries. We are also making the EU weaker. The EU is currently the biggest market in the world, but that title will go to China after we leave, so there will also be significant impacts on human rights, democracy and the rule of law.
Of course, this Bill is not directly about our relationship with the EU, but we will be reducing our trade with it due to the tariffs that will be imposed if we do not have membership—I hope we will—of the single market and the customs union. This Bill is about our relationship with third parties—the 65 agreements—but it is not fit for purpose in that respect, because it does not do what it says on the can. It claims that it can guarantee the continuation of those 65 agreements on existing terms, but it is intuitively obvious from a business point of view that other countries will see Britain up against the wall, on its own and weaker, and they will demand better terms, whether lower quality, lower standards or lower prices. What is more—
Geraint Davies
I will let the Minister intervene, but he can respond to this as well. The EU has quotas for various countries, but other EU27 countries will want to take some of that business, and we will lose again and again.
Greg Hands
I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman has been listening to the debate or my previous interventions, but that process has already begun. We are in conversations with third parties and none of them is behaving in the manner that he is describing. Let me put his fears to one side: I cannot promise that we will be able to transition every single agreement, but nobody is behaving in that manner.
Geraint Davies
The Minister tells us that third parties are not behaving like that at the moment, so he implies that they will not behave like that in the future—what false logic; what naivety.. That is absolutely ridiculous. Any negotiator or country that sees Britain with its back to the wall, turning away from the biggest market in the world, will ask for more. If they did not say that they will give the money to Spain or wherever, they would not be doing their job. What is more, they will be dragging their heels, because they will know that the clock is ticking and that we need to get something sorted out. They have everything on their side. The Minister is so naive. All the negotiations over the past 40 years have been done by EU negotiators. We do not have the negotiating capacity. He is smiling glibly and pretending that it will be all right on the night, but it will not. People will remember what he has said today and how naive he was.
This Bill is simply not fit for purpose. It takes two to tango, and the Bill presumes, as the Minister does, that the EU will tango and not trip us up in the process.
The other facet of the Bill is secrecy and hiding what will happen. My hon. Friend the Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) said that the US-UK deal will be hidden for four years, and there are all sorts of fears about our having to import substandard food products from the US, including chlorinated chicken, which the Secretary of State looks forward to eating—his name is Fox—and hormone-impregnated meat. In the US, medicines are introduced into meat and asbestos is for sale. All those standards may end up coming through the back door under the cloak of darkness in these secret deals.
I know that the Bill is not about the US-UK relationship at the moment, but the Minister and the Secretary of State have mentioned CETA, which already enables certain changes to occur. There is a real risk that we will take on some of these problems. Indeed, there is a real risk that we will lose out on opportunities that the EU is creating, particularly in the trade relationship with Japan. That trade relationship will involve 600 million people and comprise 30% of the world’s GDP. The Europeans have built in environmental conditions, particularly through the Paris agreement, and other rights and protections that we enjoy in the EU, and the real problem is that downstream, due to both changing the existing bilateral relationships and as part of future trade relationships, the protections and rights we enjoy through our trade relationships in the EU will be bargained away. Whether it is human rights, environmental rights or consumer rights, those things are now inadvertently on the table, and that table is under the cloak of darkness, as there will not be public scrutiny.
There should be a guarantee of scrutiny, and we should ensure that the rights and protections we enjoy in the EU are sustained in future trade relationships. In my view, we should stay in at least a customs union, and ideally the customs union and the single market.
The Minister for Trade Policy (Greg Hands)
As you know, Mr Speaker, it has become almost a tradition in this place to pronounce, when winding up a debate, that it has been interesting, thoughtful, helpful, vigorous or useful. This debate has been all those and more. Above all, it has been illuminating. It has illuminated the chaos of the stance of Her Majesty’s official Opposition, as did last night’s debate on the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Bill. It has revealed the deep divisions within Labour on anything to do with trade, customs and markets. It seems that whenever a Division is called on those matters—bear in mind, Mr Speaker, that it is of course the Opposition who call the Divisions—Labour descends into its own chaos.
When we considered the Queen’s Speech, 49 Labour Members backed an amendment tabled by the hon. Member for Streatham (Chuka Umunna) in favour of staying in the single market and the customs union. That was contrary to the manifesto on which they had fought only days earlier. On CETA, the EU’s free trade agreement with Canada, only 68 Labour Members followed the official line from the hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) and voted against it, whereas 86 voted with the Government and their free-trade instincts in favour of the agreement. As one of them put it, “If you can’t have a trade agreement with Justin Trudeau’s Canada, who can you have a trade agreement with?”
When we considered the Ways and Means motions for the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Bill just before Christmas, 28 Labour Members rebelled by backing an amendment in favour of staying in the customs union. Last night, 219 Labour Members voted against the Second Reading of that same Bill, which means that they are opposed to the UK’s having, post Brexit, any scheme of trade preferences for developing countries.
Geraint Davies
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. This speech is not about the Trade Bill; it is about the Opposition. The Minister had 10 minutes in which to talk about the Trade Bill.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I know that the Minister now intends to attend to the Bill. That was by way of being his preliminary observation. He will now, I know, immediately segue into the matters that are of concern to the House today.
Greg Hands
Tonight, Mr Speaker, it seems that Labour Members will go even further and vote against the creation of the Trade Remedies Authority in the first place. They will vote against the ability of UK companies, including SMEs, to bid on government procurement contracts elsewhere in the world and against UK exporters continuing to benefit from the provisions of more than 40 EU trade agreements. All that bears witness to the staggering confusion that exists among official Opposition Members.
Before I respond to the individual points that have been made in the debate, I want to be very clear, because there is still a great deal of confusion on the Opposition Benches, about what is not in the Bill. It does not include a power to implement future free trade agreements negotiated with new countries. It is very much about providing continuity and stability by enabling the UK to implement the effects of the trading arrangements that already exist between the European Union and other countries at the point when the UK leaves the EU.
We heard excellent speeches from my hon. Friends the Members for Hertford and Stortford (Mr Prisk) and for Fylde (Mark Menzies)—two of our excellent trade envoys—and from my hon. Friends the Members for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart), for Hornchurch and Upminster (Julia Lopez), for Walsall North (Eddie Hughes), for Saffron Walden (Mrs Badenoch), for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford) and for Clacton (Giles Watling). Let me draw out four particular strands from those speeches. First, all the Members were very strong in pointing out what was in the Bill and what was not, particularly my hon. Friends the Members for Milton Keynes South, for Hornchurch and Upminster and for Clacton. We also heard some home truths about Brexit, particularly from my hon. Friend for Walsall North. My hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford agreed with calls for the UK to be a strong advocate of free trade and a supporter of the rules-based international system, which was very much what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I did last month in Buenos Aires. We also heard some very important points about the definition of fair trade from my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris).
Let me deal briefly with some of the points raised by Opposition Front Benchers. First, there was an allegation of an exchange of letters with the US trade representative, suggesting that the Department for International Trade had given some kind of assurance of secrecy. The opposite is true: the letters to which the hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) referred do nothing more than set out a proposal for the proper handling of confidential information and are not an attempt to avoid scrutiny. In fact, the letters reaffirm our commitment to a transparent and inclusive process with specific reference to Parliament.
The hon. Gentleman also talked, as did the hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden), about the trade White Paper with reference to when the Bill was published. The White Paper was just one way of getting the shape of our future UK trade policy correct. Since then, we have also issued a call for evidence on specific EU trade remedies, which is still open. My door is open, and the Secretary of State and I have meetings coming up with the ceramics and steel industries and other important industry groups.
The hon. Member for Brent North asserted that transitioning deals would not be subject to any parliamentary scrutiny, as did many of his colleagues. We have every intention of ratifying all the EU free trade agreements currently in force before we leave the EU, including the EU-Canada CETA agreement, the South Korea agreement that was mentioned by the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) and others, and the economic partnership with the South African Development Community. Those have already been subject to parliamentary scrutiny here, and there is of course a process for them to have further scrutiny as well.
The hon. Member for Brent North also raised the question whether Parliament can vote on the terms of UK membership of the GPA. The Bill creates the power to have stand-alone UK membership of the GPA, but the approval for ratifying the UK independent membership will be sought separately from Parliament.
The hon. Member for Livingston (Hannah Bardell) made various points in a thoughtful contribution. She said the Bill does not define what a free trade agreement is, but it does define that in clause 2(7) as
“an agreement that is or was notifiable under”
particular provisions
“of GATT, or…GATS.”
The hon. Member for Edinburgh South made some points about Scotch whisky. There have already been two meetings of the trade working group with South Korea and there is absolutely no evidence that the South Koreans want to do anything at all against Scotch whisky. It would be against their interests and ours to do so. I, the Secretary of State and the whole International Trade team work tirelessly to promote Scotch whisky. I did that personally in Peru when lobbying about particular metal rules, and it has happened during discussions about rules in Taiwan.
Greg Hands
I am sorry, but I do not have time.
The hon. Member for City of Durham (Dr Blackman-Woods) raised interesting points that have been under-scrutinised both yesterday and today with regard to Britain’s trading relationship with developing countries. That is incredibly important and a strong priority of this Department, but I must point out to her that the official Opposition voted last night against powers to transition existing schemes of trade preferences and for the UK to have trade preferences for the developing world. That was not consistent with what she said today.
In conclusion, trade is a key driver for growth and prosperity, and an important part of both the UK and the world economy. The UK’s trade with the world is equivalent to over half the UK’s GDP. A recent IMF project to which my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State referred concluded that about 90% of world growth is likely to come from outside the EU. International trade is linked to many jobs and contributes to a growing economy by stimulating greater business efficiency and higher productivity and sharing knowledge and innovation across the globe.
The Bill is a responsible first step. It is about continuity and stability. It is designed to provide continuity by ensuring that we have in place the right tools to ensure a smooth transition as the UK exits the European Union. That is in all our interests, so I urge colleagues to vote against the amendment. I commend the Bill to the House.
Question put, That the amendment be made.