Lords Chamber
11:06
Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
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Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
My My Lords, My Lords, I My Lords, I have My Lords, I have to My Lords, I have to notify My Lords, I have to notify the House in accordance with the Royal Assent Act 1967, that His Majesty the King has signified his Royal Assent to the following acts. Medical Training Prioritisation Act. Rare Cancers Act, Sustainable Rare Cancers Act, Sustainable Aviation Fuel Act first Oral Question Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick. Downpatrick.
11:07
11:07
Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
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Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
the Order Paper. My Lords, the PFAS Plan was published on the 3rd of Plan was published on the 3rd of February this year. It sets out for the first time the government's approach to minimising the harmful approach to minimising the harmful effects of PFAS while moving to safer alternatives. The PFAS plan safer alternatives. The PFAS plan includes consideration of measures to manage risks from PFAS in consumer articles, and whilst there consumer articles, and whilst there are no current plans to consult on banning PFAS in consumer products, any such future regulatory ban would involve consulting on a proposal.
My Lords, could I thank my noble friend, the Minister, for her response? My Lords PFAS are considered to be harmful to the environment, and by the time we collect enough evidence that a substance is harmful, it is too late. It is prevalent in the environment and costly to clean up if that is even possible. Considering this, a precautionary approach would be to not allow these substances to be sold or used in the UK unless they could definitely or definitively be proven to be harmful.
So therefore,
My Lords, could I thank my noble friend, the Minister, for her response? My Lords PFAS are considered to be harmful to the environment, and by the time we collect enough evidence that a substance is harmful, it is too late. It is prevalent in the environment and costly to clean up if that is even possible. Considering this, a precautionary approach would be to not allow these substances to be sold or used in the UK unless they could definitely or definitively be proven to be harmful.
So therefore,
11:08
Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Labour)
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Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Labour)
could I urge my noble friend the Minister, to follow the precautionary principle and signal precautionary principle and signal the government's intent that rapid steps be taken to end the use of steps be taken to end the use of PFAS in the UK? And I feel if we don't, there is a real risk we will become a dumping ground for products not suitable for the EU
11:08
Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
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Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
market. >> My noble friend raises a really important issue, and so I'd just like to confirm that when deciding what action that we will take to address any PFAS risks the government will have due regard to the environmental Principles policy statement from the Environment Act of 2021, and this includes the precautionary principle. We know that many PFAS have useful properties and are widely used, and some critical uses of PFAS, which benefit society, do not currently have suitable and sustainable PFAS alternatives available.
So while we see in the near future use continuing, we absolutely have to manage any risks effectively. And what the PFAS plan does is it contains action to support this transition to the alternatives.
So while we see in the near future use continuing, we absolutely have to manage any risks effectively. And what the PFAS plan does is it contains action to support this transition to the alternatives.
11:09
11:09
11:10
Baroness Grender (Liberal Democrat)
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Baroness Grender (Liberal Democrat)
important piece of work. Can the Minister explain why, when PFAS contamination of marine life and contamination of marine life and wildlife is already so widespread and understood, the government is choosing a what looks like a pathway of delay of more research, more information and consumer choice, and considering only limited change to products such as waterproof clothing and period products. Rather than pursuing a more aggressive approach to
11:10
Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
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Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
more aggressive approach to attempting to ban PFAS now. Well, clearly we want to move forward as quickly as we can, and the noble quickly as we can, and the noble Lady and others will be aware that we're working with the EU at the moment. There are negotiations. We know that the EU are looking at know that the EU are looking at their own approach, and clearly we need to be taking that in consideration and working alongside the EU. But I do think it's important to to remind noble Lords that PFAS is a large and complex group of over 15,000 chemicals, and there are significant differences in chemical structure and toxicity.
So it's really important that we we work alongside the EU to tackle this effectively and efficiently for the long term.
So it's really important that we we work alongside the EU to tackle this effectively and efficiently for the long term.
11:11
Baroness Boycott (Crossbench)
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Baroness Boycott (Crossbench)
My Lords, we are on the whole on all these bands. We're way behind the EU. I've raised in this House the issue of school uniforms and polyesters being next to the skin, the largest organ in the body. And I'd like to ask the Minister if she'll turn her attention to babies mattresses. Babies spend 12 to 16 hours a day on a mattress. The PVC covers they. They leach phthalates into the atmosphere. And in the in the foam are fire retardants which are in most mattresses.
Now these produce effects in babies, which include cancers in later life and absolutely definitely now. The understanding that these are hormone disruptors, which are leading to lower sperm counts in males all over the world, it's really important we take a precautionary principle here and at least follow the EU all the way. least follow the EU all the way.
Now these produce effects in babies, which include cancers in later life and absolutely definitely now. The understanding that these are hormone disruptors, which are leading to lower sperm counts in males all over the world, it's really important we take a precautionary principle here and at least follow the EU all the way. least follow the EU all the way.
11:12
Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
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Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
As I said, we we will be taking a precautionary principle approach. And the noble Lady talked about school uniforms, and it's really important that we make sure that children are protected, obviously, as much as we can. We do. We absolutely recognise the concerns in this area. And to point about mattresses again is important. The textiles industry is already moving away from PFAS voluntarily, but we do clearly need to do more. And I just like to assure noble Lords that the PFAS plan is the starting point, and it's the platform for moving forward in this area.
So this is not the limit of our ambition.
So this is not the limit of our ambition.
11:13
Lord Roborough (Conservative)
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Lord Roborough (Conservative)
My Lords, we are concerned that the plan promises high level actions without clear timelines for phase outs or mechanisms for delivery. In addition, companies need sufficient time to explore safe alternatives and for the supply chain to adapt accordingly. What is the government doing to support the private sector in innovating viable alternatives to PFAS?
11:13
Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
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Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
Well, I think the simple answer to that is we're doing carrying out a lot of stakeholder engagement. We're working very closely with industry and business because, as I said, you know, in the textiles industry, they're moving that way voluntarily. We need to work with other sections of industry in the private sector to encourage them to do so, because the more we can do now, voluntarily, the better. While we bring in our more detailed plans.
11:13
Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (Green Party)
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Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (Green Party)
Lord True the. >> Lord True the. >> Noble Lady may have seen in the Financial Times this week a major article for a large article about article for a large article about the concerns about PFAS in sportswear, which of course, if you are wearing sportswear, sweating, moving very fast in terms of both off gassing and absorption through the skin, there's a very large area of concern given there is so much public concern, obviously with sportswear, particularly for children. As the noble Lady Baroness Boycott said, surely the government needs to address this far more rapidly than it's doing now.
11:14
Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
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Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
Well, as I said this, this is very much, very much the starting point. And we are in negotiations with the EU. The EU is looking to what it wants to to do in this, in this space. And it's important that we we wanted to lay out a plan that demonstrated that government was serious about doing something in this area because it's really important, but it's also important that we work with industry. It's also important that we educate consumers along the way, and it's also important that we continue to work constructively with the EU because we want eventually, as I said, this is the starting point to actually get to a place where PFAS chemicals are dealt with effectively.
11:15
Lord Evans of Rainow (Conservative)
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Lord Evans of Rainow (Conservative)
Rural community pubs are very much a force for good, not just for the local rural communities that they serve, but also for the wider communities in towns and cities. Does the noble Lady, the Minister, agree with that statement? And does her department agree that diversity within the rural economy is most welcome from those in towns and cities?
11:15
11:15
Lord Bird (Crossbench)
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Lord Bird (Crossbench)
Wonder. >> If the noble Lady. >> Of the Minister. >> Is aware. >> Sorry, I just wanted to bring a
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Sorry, I just wanted to bring a bit of thinking here. Why is it that your government is now looking like every other government, which like every other government, which is that when you get the opportunity to be brave and act quickly, you are incredibly tardy. This lot was doing it before you and presumably some lot will be doing it next. After you. Let's be brave. Let's be brave. Let's grab something that will help our children not be getting cancer in ten, 20, 30 years time.
Let's do it now.
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Sorry, I just wanted to bring a bit of thinking here. Why is it that your government is now looking like every other government, which like every other government, which is that when you get the opportunity to be brave and act quickly, you are incredibly tardy. This lot was doing it before you and presumably some lot will be doing it next. After you. Let's be brave. Let's be brave. Let's grab something that will help our children not be getting cancer in ten, 20, 30 years time.
Let's do it now.
11:16
11:16
Earl Russell (Liberal Democrat)
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Earl Russell (Liberal Democrat)
And we broadly welcome the government, the Minister said. This is a starting point and we welcome that. And I note what the Minister has said, that this is an extremely complicated group of chemicals used in many, many industrial processes. The Minister also spoke of Europe and the action that's being taken there. And fundamentally, there's a different approach being taken in Europe to the one being taken in the UK. So can I ask the Minister for further clarity about how we can have further cooperation with our European partners on these important issues, Lord Sikka.
important issues, Lord Sikka.
important issues, Lord Sikka.
11:17
Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
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Baroness Hayman of Ullock, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Labour)
Well, as the noble Lord says, the EU is developing a broad ban on on PFAS industry we know is concerned about any plans being workable, which is why we this is the starting point in working with industry to to get it right. We need to see what the EU's proposals are. We don't know yet. We are expecting them to announce an update, I think next week. That will be followed by a consultation. And then of course we will.
I'm sure we will be debating that much more in Parliament. But as I say, our plan is the starting point. We want to work with the EU. We're waiting to see what they come up with and then hopefully we can be more brave.
I'm sure we will be debating that much more in Parliament. But as I say, our plan is the starting point. We want to work with the EU. We're waiting to see what they come up with and then hopefully we can be more brave.
11:18
11:18
Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
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Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
As the report highlights, it is considerably harder for someone from a working class background to access the arts and pursue an artistic career. This is clearly not acceptable. Our 1.5 billion Arts Everywhere fund will prioritise areas previously undersupported, ensuring the arts should be for everyone, whatever their background. It is also why we are investing £132.5 million of dormant assets funding to increase disadvantaged young people's access to enrichment and delivering a £9 million Creative Careers service, which will focus on tackling the greatest barriers facing young people.
11:18
The Earl of Clancarty (Crossbench)
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The Earl of Clancarty (Crossbench)
My Lords, my takeaway from a report that makes many crucial points is how much the starving of particular part of the workforce. Would the Minister agree? If there is fiscal headroom, there should be major reinvestment, not just in Manchester but across the whole country. Two examples from the report creative infrastructure such as rehearsal and studio spaces, largely ignored by successive governments. Secondly, the paucity of apprenticeships, which need to be far more flexible and tailored to the arts.
Will the government take action on these things?
Will the government take action on these things?
11:19
Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
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Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
The government is already investing in arts and culture and over the course of this parliament, the government will invest £1.5 billion in capital funding for arts and culture. We are also we're also investing in making sure that opportunities should never depend on background or schooling, and we are committed to ensuring everyone can succeed in the arts. This includes looking at how we can encourage people to offer and take up apprenticeships. But more importantly, I feel it is about making sure the right people are in the room and that everyone knows that that room even exists.
11:20
Baroness Keeley (Labour)
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Baroness Keeley (Labour)
My Lords, the music and dance schools such as Chetham's in Manchester and the Hammond School in Chester give talented children from disadvantaged backgrounds access to world class training. These eight schools are a success story, yet their future is endangered after frozen, after funding was frozen or cut in real terms from 2010 to 2024. Without renewed investment, this pathway will disappear, reinforcing the Class Ceiling we are discussing. Can I open the Minister? Confirm whether additional funding will be found so that these schools can contain continue their vital specialist educational work?
11:20
Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
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Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
Yeah. and Schools England to refine and develop the growth and skills offer. But that would also include working with the DfE on how we make sure that as many children as possible can access specialist and general music and dance education. We recognise that it's really important to revitalise arts education, which is why there was a focus on this in the reformed National Curriculum.
11:21
Lord Addington (Liberal Democrat)
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Lord Addington (Liberal Democrat)
Report suggests that something that sounds like, well, institutionalised snobbery exists, and also the fact that we suggest things like dealing with apprenticeships. Does the Minister have any idea how on earth, in a sector dominated by freelancers and microbusinesses, we can make apprenticeships or anything like them more attractive to those employers? Yes.
11:21
Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
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Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
I think the apprenticeship piece is around. It is is a really critical part of making sure that it's not just who you know, but it's what you, what you, what, what your sort of future potential is. And I think that the way we are doing this is by really focusing and making sure that we get world class vocational training and as well as apprenticeships, we're obviously doing things like making sure we've got Brit School in Bradford, which is opening in 2028, which will provide 500 free places for 16 to 19 year olds, which will break down the barriers to elite art education.
I think one of the things that comes through the report and reports and sort of some of the narrative around the report, which I agree was a really interesting, if sobering read, was that actually too many children don't actually know that these are careers that are open to them. So we're also investing in making sure that there's careers, careers opportunities and careers advice for young people that actually get them to know that these these are careers that are open to them in the first place.
And I think that's the first step to the barriers we should be breaking down even before we start looking at increasing apprenticeship. There's no use offering careers if people don't know they exist and don't take them up.
I think one of the things that comes through the report and reports and sort of some of the narrative around the report, which I agree was a really interesting, if sobering read, was that actually too many children don't actually know that these are careers that are open to them. So we're also investing in making sure that there's careers, careers opportunities and careers advice for young people that actually get them to know that these these are careers that are open to them in the first place.
And I think that's the first step to the barriers we should be breaking down even before we start looking at increasing apprenticeship. There's no use offering careers if people don't know they exist and don't take them up.
11:23
Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury (Conservative)
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Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury (Conservative)
At all. Many musicians, and I think.
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About the barriers which are denying access to disadvantaged denying access to disadvantaged people and students to the arts. Could she very helpfully, just for our information, spell out exactly our information, spell out exactly what those barriers are and what the government precisely is doing to remove them?
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About the barriers which are denying access to disadvantaged denying access to disadvantaged people and students to the arts. Could she very helpfully, just for our information, spell out exactly our information, spell out exactly what those barriers are and what the government precisely is doing to remove them?
11:23
Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
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Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
to remove them? >> I think I'd probably exceed or far exceed the sort of 75 word response we're supposed to give if response we're supposed to give if I went through all the barriers, but it includes lack of access to parental networks. It includes not knowing about the opportunities the first place. It includes schools not having the creative education, which is why I referred to the fact that the curriculum review is focussed on arts, and why the Secretary of State for culture is focussed on increasing access to music opportunities, including through music in libraries.
I could go on. And I'm hoping that some of the other issues and the things we're trying to deal with come through in other responses.
I could go on. And I'm hoping that some of the other issues and the things we're trying to deal with come through in other responses.
11:24
11:24
Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
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Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
We are aware of the basic income scheme for artists in Ireland. We're not considering a basic income scheme for artists at this time. We do, however, believe that British creators are second to none and committed to giving them security and a regulatory and fiscal environment where creative creativity can flourish. This is exemplified with our recent Employment Rights Bill and our commitment to appoint a freelance champion and our 5% uplift to national portfolio organisations, as well as committing to addressing some of the unfair practices in the grassroots music industry, such as pay to Play.
11:25
Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Conservative)
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Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Conservative)
My Lords in January, Exeter >> My Lords in January, Exeter Cathedral School announced it would be closing its doors at the end of this academic year after eight and a half centuries, training talented singers of all backgrounds who provide solace and tranquillity to those who need it. Parents and staff have said that the government's imposition of VAT on their fees and scholarships was the final nail in the coffin. The headmaster of Wells Cathedral Choir School has similarly warned that VAT is of huge concern.
Access to choristers ship should be open to everyone. It's getting harder and harder to do that. Will the government think again so that this important part of our living heritage can be open to everybody, not just those whose parents can afford it?
Access to choristers ship should be open to everyone. It's getting harder and harder to do that. Will the government think again so that this important part of our living heritage can be open to everybody, not just those whose parents can afford it?
11:25
Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
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Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
Yes.
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I think one of the issues with private schools is that in principle, they they haven't been open to everyone. And I appreciate that there's and ending the tax breaks on VAT and business rates breaks on VAT and business rates for private schools was a tough but necessary decision that was secure. Additional funding to help deliver Additional funding to help deliver the commitments by this government relating to education and young relating to education and young people. And I think that the schools that do focus on the performing arts are in scope of the policy in order to ensure fairness and constituency.
But what we are with making sure that there's a better revitalised arts education more generally. And that does include also continuing with some of the bursaries that are available to young people.
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I think one of the issues with private schools is that in principle, they they haven't been open to everyone. And I appreciate that there's and ending the tax breaks on VAT and business rates breaks on VAT and business rates for private schools was a tough but necessary decision that was secure. Additional funding to help deliver Additional funding to help deliver the commitments by this government relating to education and young relating to education and young people. And I think that the schools that do focus on the performing arts are in scope of the policy in order to ensure fairness and constituency.
But what we are with making sure that there's a better revitalised arts education more generally. And that does include also continuing with some of the bursaries that are available to young people.
11:26
11:27
Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
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Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
So when you look at that, it all sounds great in practice, but there's a massive regional difference. So you get pockets of the country. So for example, that might work in London. It's not going to work in some parts of the north of England, which the report, it doesn't in every single part. So I think I think the best thing the government can do is to make sure that every state school, which educates around 93 to 94% of children, has a good offer for those children in terms of access to arts education.
11:27
Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Conservative)
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Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Conservative)
Over many centuries.
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Some of the finest artists in all the various forms of art have come from poorer communities and come from poorer communities and have relied very largely on private patronage in order to develop their patronage in order to develop their artistic skills and and so on. But I just want to ask the Minister, I just want to ask the Minister, therefore, does she think that the government is doing enough to encourage people to provide patronage, to provide support privately to those that have these talents and are so important?
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Some of the finest artists in all the various forms of art have come from poorer communities and come from poorer communities and have relied very largely on private patronage in order to develop their patronage in order to develop their artistic skills and and so on. But I just want to ask the Minister, I just want to ask the Minister, therefore, does she think that the government is doing enough to encourage people to provide patronage, to provide support privately to those that have these talents and are so important?
11:28
Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
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Baroness Twycross, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Labour)
I'm a big fan of philanthropy, but I do think at essence, our approach and the approach, I think approach and the approach, I think if if noble Lords would read the report, the original question referred to this is about making referred to this is about making sure that young people are aware of the opportunities that we break down the systemic, widespread barriers to young people in actually accessing the information and knowledge to get on in this area in the first place.
And also make sure that the renumeration across the board and low pay early on in people's careers, or no pay early on in people's careers, doesn't stop people without parental income or access to private financing getting on in the first place.
And also make sure that the renumeration across the board and low pay early on in people's careers, or no pay early on in people's careers, doesn't stop people without parental income or access to private financing getting on in the first place.
11:29
Baroness Sherlock, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Labour)
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Baroness Sherlock, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Labour)
My Lords, access to work is a demand led, personalised discretionary grant programme which supports the recruitment and retention of disabled people in employment as part of standard operational practice. DWP continually reviews how the service is delivered to drive improvements. Access to work has not substantially changed since its introduction in 1994. In our Pathways to Work Green Paper, this government consulted on the future of access to work and how to improve the scheme so it helps more disabled people in work.
11:29
Lord Touhig (Labour)
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Lord Touhig (Labour)
My Lords, last year I met a group of autistic youngsters in employment for the first time, thanks to the support of the Access to Work Fund. But the fund, in truth, is in crisis. There's a backlog of 60,000 applications waiting to be processed. 33,000 people are waiting for payments. The system is overwhelmed and is struggling to cope. Recently, the National Audit Office has produced a report making recommendations for major changes to how the fund operates. Can I ask my hon.
Friend if she will use this report as the basis for a complete review to completely?
Friend if she will use this report as the basis for a complete review to completely?
11:30
Baroness Sherlock, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Labour)
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Baroness Sherlock, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Labour)
Yeah. supporting people into work, and that is what access to work is there to do. The report is something that is a really helpful contribution. It was published last month and it highlighted a number of the pressures we already know. It also noted the fact that that the demand on access to work has gone up dramatically. It began to escalate significantly coming out of the pandemic, and application rates have doubled since 20 1920, and the government is now spending a record amount of over £320 million, which is the highest ever and 22% more than the year before.
We are looking at the range of changes that have made a difference, and it's partly about the scale, partly about complexity. So we're taking steps now. We increase the number of staff working in this area by 29%. Last year. We've looked at operational improvements to speed up cases, but we are getting more complex cases coming through and that's making a difference. But also, my Lords, we do need to reform it. It hasn't been looked at properly since it was introduced over 30 years ago.
We need to make sure it's fit for We need to make sure it's fit for the future.
We are looking at the range of changes that have made a difference, and it's partly about the scale, partly about complexity. So we're taking steps now. We increase the number of staff working in this area by 29%. Last year. We've looked at operational improvements to speed up cases, but we are getting more complex cases coming through and that's making a difference. But also, my Lords, we do need to reform it. It hasn't been looked at properly since it was introduced over 30 years ago.
We need to make sure it's fit for We need to make sure it's fit for the future.
11:31
Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Conservative)
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Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Conservative)
I totally agree with the points which will be noble. Lord Lord Touhig, we're very fortunate in having a Minister who cares so deeply about this subject as we all know. But may I make the point that one of the problems as well of people getting a job, and this is a point I wanted to ask the Minister about, was, in practice, the workforce in many small companies are very nervous indeed. On having somebody who is disabled or has a problem of that type.
I asked the Minister how we think we can do with that better and faster. Thank you. Yes.
I asked the Minister how we think we can do with that better and faster. Thank you. Yes.
11:32
Baroness Sherlock, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Labour)
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Baroness Sherlock, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Labour)
The noble Lord, and also for his kind words. He raises a really important point. One of the things that we've discovered through our general work with employers, but also the report that we've done in this area, is that many employers really want to help, but some small and medium sized businesses do not know how. They're nervous, they're difficult. They worry about having the right conversations and how to help. We have a special service developed with SME employers called send, where we can actually work with the employers.
Bridge conversations between employer and employee, help them to work out what they should do, what help they can get elsewhere. At the same time, we do need to make sure that really big employers step up to the plate. We shouldn't be in the situation where very large employers indeed are using access to work for small pieces of equipment that one would hope they could have managed in the normal run of things when they're buying keyboards or chairs, whatever it is. So our job is to help the employers to do the right thing, because most of them want to.
But he knows very much from his experience. This can be challenging, and yet the rewards of having a really good workforce can be really can make all the difference in the end.
Bridge conversations between employer and employee, help them to work out what they should do, what help they can get elsewhere. At the same time, we do need to make sure that really big employers step up to the plate. We shouldn't be in the situation where very large employers indeed are using access to work for small pieces of equipment that one would hope they could have managed in the normal run of things when they're buying keyboards or chairs, whatever it is. So our job is to help the employers to do the right thing, because most of them want to.
But he knows very much from his experience. This can be challenging, and yet the rewards of having a really good workforce can be really can make all the difference in the end.
11:33
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (Liberal Democrat)
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Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (Liberal Democrat)
I would. Compliment the. work that is being done in this area. But since in my view, the aim of this access to work fund is to get people out of the house and into work, the fund also pays for improvements and and and developments in the home. When people are working from home. It would be, I'm sure, of great interest to the House to know what proportion of these funds are going to support people working from home, rather than working in a in a place of employment, which is not quite the same in what it achieves for mobility.
11:33
Baroness Sherlock, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Labour)
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Baroness Sherlock, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Labour)
Lords, the noble Lord makes an important point. The scheme helps people to get into work and to stay in work. But it's it's an incredibly wide ranging. People can become anything from a customer applying for a single one off grant of £100 to buy a piece of equipment, which they might keep for the duration of their their work in that particular role through to the other end. There's a cap of £69,260 for someone who needs large levels of personal support so there can be people, a single piece of equipment, British Sign Language support to do a job and right across the piece.
I do not have the figures about location of that, but if we have them, I'd be very happy to write to the noble Lord. the noble Lord.
I do not have the figures about location of that, but if we have them, I'd be very happy to write to the noble Lord. the noble Lord.
11:34
The Lord Bishop of Leicester (Bishops)
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The Lord Bishop of Leicester (Bishops)
My Lords, whilst I recognise that spending on access to work has increased in recent years, and I applaud the government's ambition to support more disabled people into work, this will most likely require more financial investment and more training of specialist staff. Can I ask, therefore, has the government assessed how its welfare reforms will affect demand for access to work and how the scheme can be strengthened to meet what may be an increased caseload in coming years?
11:35
Baroness Sherlock, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Labour)
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Baroness Sherlock, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Labour)
The right reverend Prelate raises a very important point. The government would hope that there will be more demand for support. reviewing access to work is also to review the whole landscape, to look at how well supported as the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Stirling. How well supported are employers to be able to do the things that they can do? What's the right thing for an employer to do? What can the individual do themselves, and what can the state do to help them directly? One of the challenges in recent times is along with that growth, we're getting very different types of cases.
So I think broadly speaking, when the scheme was much smaller, people traditionally applied for something a piece of physical kit for a physical barrier. We now may get something that the biggest single case of people needing help with mental health. There are cases, people coming through with a range of learning conditions, which are quite complex to assess and need a lot more work, so we are having to review that alongside broader policies. But he makes an important point to connect them.
So I think broadly speaking, when the scheme was much smaller, people traditionally applied for something a piece of physical kit for a physical barrier. We now may get something that the biggest single case of people needing help with mental health. There are cases, people coming through with a range of learning conditions, which are quite complex to assess and need a lot more work, so we are having to review that alongside broader policies. But he makes an important point to connect them.
11:35
