(13 years ago)
Commons ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
1. What discussions he has had on the definition of lobbying.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Mark Harper)
The hon. Gentleman will know that we plan to bring forward our proposals for consultation in the new year, and this will no doubt be one of the subjects on which we will seek and receive views.
Bill Esterson
Does the Minister agree that businesses in this country should be lobbying the Government to go back to the negotiating table in Europe to get what is best for British business, jobs and living standards?
Mr Harper
That was a very contrived question. Our proposals on lobbying are very sound. On the European question, I think that the general public agree with what my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister did. There is no conflict between standing up for Britain and ensuring that we are involved in every meeting in Europe and fighting for British interests. We saw the outcome of that in yesterday’s excellent statement on the Fisheries Council.
Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)
Section 8.16 of the 2005 ministerial code required Ministers to record specific details of meetings with outside interest groups, including lobbyists. Does the Minister agree that reinstating that requirement would be a positive move for lobbying transparency, and that it was a mistake for the then Prime Minister to get rid of it in 2007?
Mr Harper
I thank the hon. Lady for her question. She will know that we have made some changes to the ministerial code. For example, when Ministers in this Government leave office, they will not be allowed to lobby the Government for two full years afterwards. That is a new proposal that was not in place under the previous Government. If it had been, they might not have had some of the problems that they did.
Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
I note what the Minister says about the Government’s plans to bring forward proposals for a register of lobbyists, but I want to ask the Government whether they work to the Buddhist calendar. On 2 November, he stated that the Government would publish their proposals before the end of November. Can we take his announcement today any more seriously than that one, or should we take all Government announcements with a large pinch of seasonal salt?
Mr Harper
The hon. Gentleman and his party ought to be a little careful on this subject. We are not going to take any lessons from them, because they did absolutely nothing about this for 13 years. As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said last week, when we bring forward our proposals early in the new year, we will have done more on this in 18 months than the Labour Government did in 13 years.
Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)
No one would disagree that there should be no place in this building for improper access or influence; that is obviously the case. Does the Minister agree, however, that there is a problem of definition? Perfectly legitimate charities and other organisations are lobbyists, even though they are not paid to lobby and do so on their own behalf. Will he therefore be careful about defining precisely what a lobbyist is, and take care not to throw the baby out with the bathwater?
Mr Harper
My hon. Friend makes a good point. Our constituents lobby us every day of the week about legitimate issues, for example. We must be careful to take these matters forward sensibly, which is why we are going to bring forward our proposals for consultation to ensure that we get this right and that we do not inadvertently stop our constituents and others raising important issues with us.
Mr David Hamilton (Midlothian) (Lab)
2. What steps he is taking to ensure that armed forces personnel are registered for postal and proxy voting at the next general election as part of his plans for individual electoral registration.
The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Nick Clegg)
We are committed to helping service personnel to register and cast their votes. Service voters who are on the register before the move to individual electoral registration will remain registered until their service declaration expires, up to five years later. We also plan to extend the administrative timetable for UK parliamentary elections, which means that there will be a lot more time for service voters to return postal votes from overseas. We will also make it easier for them to apply for a proxy vote if they are deployed at very short notice before an election.
Mr Hamilton
I thank the Deputy Prime Minister for that answer. The number of service personnel serving abroad who were registered to vote increased from about 36% in 2005 to 48% in 2008. At the last general election, in 2010, there were only 294 proxy votes and 240 postal votes from the 9,000 members of the armed forces based in Afghanistan. What is the Deputy Prime Minister going to do to ensure that the speed at which he is moving on this issue does not isolate our armed forces in Afghanistan?
The Deputy Prime Minister
First, let me pay tribute to the previous Government for the very good work done to help servicemen and women in Afghanistan to make sure that they can participate fully. There was a real step change there, and we have continued with that for the elections of May this year. Registration levels seem to be improving. A survey conducted last year by the Defence Analytical Services Agency indicates that 75% of service personnel are registered to vote, which is well up on the figures of a few years before. We are moving in the right direction, but we will, of course, continue—not least by taking the measures I mentioned—to improve it further.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
What plans does the Deputy Prime Minister have to extend the time between the close of nominations and polling day to enable long-distance postal voters, such as our loyal servicemen and women in the armed forces, to cast their ballot?
The Deputy Prime Minister
We are indeed lengthening the timetable for UK parliamentary elections from 17 days to 25 days, which gives us just over an extra week to allow people overseas—whether they be in the armed services or elsewhere—to return their postal votes in good time.
Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)
3. What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for the Home Department on the potential effects of an incomplete electoral register on tackling crime.
The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Nick Clegg)
I have had no specific discussions with the Home Secretary on this issue. As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Government are doing everything they possibly can to ensure that the register is as accurate and complete as possible, which will continue to deliver benefits—not just for elections, but in helping to tackle crime.
Tom Blenkinsop
Why is the Deputy Prime Minister making it easier for prisoners to vote, but harder for the police to track criminals on the outside by removing the civic duty to register?
The Deputy Prime Minister
We are not removing the civic duty, as I think the hon. Gentleman knows. It is not an offence at present not to register to vote. We are maintaining the offence that is on the statute book whereby there is an obligation for people to provide information about voters in their household. That is being kept intact. As to the hon. Gentleman’s first point about the link between the register and crime, the Credit Services Association recently supported the move towards individual electoral registration, saying:
“We believe that the proposed approach will lead to a reduction in financial crime, in particular fraud. In our view any proposal that will result in a reduction of financial crime is to be welcomed.”
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)
5. What steps he is taking to increase participation in elections by service and overseas voters.
The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Nick Clegg)
As I mentioned, the Government have published draft legislative provisions to extend the timetable for UK parliamentary elections from 17 to 25 working days. As I said, that will have real benefits for overseas electors and service personnel stationed outside the United Kingdom. We are also looking specifically at the best way to make improvements to the current voting arrangements for service personnel serving overseas.
Andrew Selous
Those who are prepared to die for their country should be given every opportunity to decide who governs their country, so what proportion of service voters are now registered to vote in comparison with the population as a whole?
The Deputy Prime Minister
As I said, the latest figures taken last year by the Defence Analytical Services Agency indicate a sharp increase to 75% of service personnel now registered to vote. That is up from 69% in 2009 and 60% in 2005.
Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)
I am pleased that the Deputy Prime Minister recognises the efforts made by the previous Government to encourage servicemen and women to register to vote. What he should be looking at, however, is whether those people could vote by internet. Most have access to it—at Camp Bastion and other bases around the world—so this would increase participation.
The Deputy Prime Minister
It is always worth looking to see whether we could use or deploy e-voting. As the hon. Gentleman probably knows, it poses some serious security issues. It has been looked at in the past and we will continue to look at it. The hon. Gentleman shakes his head, but most people who have looked at internet voting feel that there is a real issue about whether it can be done in a secure and safe way. As I say, we will continue to look at it.
Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)
Gurkha soldiers have had their terms and conditions improved vastly in recent years, but while they fight and die for this country they do not have the opportunity to vote in our parliamentary elections. Will my right hon. Friend investigate whether this can be corrected?
The Deputy Prime Minister
Clearly the Gurkhas will enjoy the same right as everyone else who makes the United Kingdom their home to vote for Governments in this country.
Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab)
I hope that the Deputy Prime Minister is not tempted to do away with proxy votes, given that he is lengthening the time between the close of nominations and elections. It is not just servicemen or overseas voters but my constituents who work offshore for whom postal voting is not an option, and they really do need a proxy vote.
The Deputy Prime Minister
I strongly agree. In fact, we are seeking to accelerate the provision of proxy votes for those who are deployed briefly just before a general election, so that servicemen and women who are deployed at short notice are not caught out by the rules and can use proxy votes.
Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab)
6. What discussions he has had on the definition of lobbying.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Mark Harper)
I refer the hon. Gentleman to my answer to question 1.
Jim Sheridan
May I pump the Minister a little, and ask whether it is part of Government thinking to require companies to register the costs of lobbying in their annual accounts, either directly or indirectly?
Mr Harper
If I remember rightly, that was proposed by my Liberal Democrat colleagues when they were in opposition, and the entire parliamentary Labour party voted against it, including, I suspect, the hon. Gentleman. If he will be a little patient and wait for our proposals in the new year, he will be able to satiate his curiosity.
Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)
I hope that, in defining lobbying, the Minister will recognise that it is a perfectly traditional means of trying to ensure that a good Bill is passed. Some of the worst Bills have been passed when both the main parties have agreed. Will the Minister also ensure that any lobbying by a particular trade union will fall within the definition?
Mr Harper
I am yet to present a Bill that has had the support of both the Government parties and the Opposition, and I look forward to the opportunity to do so. However, my hon. Friend has made an important point. Lobbying—in other words, the setting out of concerns by businesses, charities, and our constituents—is a perfectly sensible activity. Indeed, legislation is worse when we do not listen to the outside world, and we do not want to damage that position. I hope that when we present our consultation paper, my hon. Friend will find it acceptable. We look forward to what she, and other Members in all parts of the House, have to say about it.
Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab)
8. What assessment he has made of the potential effects of the introduction of individual electoral registration on the 2015 boundary review.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Mark Harper)
I do not expect our proposals for individual registration to have any effects. As I have said from the Dispatch Box on many occasions, we are as focused as ever on accuracy and completeness, and I therefore do not expect the new arrangement to cause any problems for the boundary review. We are working incredibly hard to ensure that the 2015 register will be in good shape.
Katy Clark
Surely the Minister accepts that the Electoral Commission’s finding that about 6 million people are missing from the register must cast doubt on the data that are being used for the boundary review.
Mr Harper
That study was, of course, paid for by the Government, because we wanted to find out what state the electoral register was in before introducing individual electoral registration. It suggests that those who complacently thought that the register was already in good shape may need to think about that a little more, and also that our proposals, which include data matching and improving registration, are urgently required and will make the register better.
John Pugh (Southport) (LD)
10. What recent progress he has made on reforming the House of Lords; and if he will make a statement.
The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Nick Clegg)
A Joint Committee of both Houses is currently scrutinising the Government’s White Paper and draft Bill, which we published last May. The Committee is making good progress, and today the other place is debating a motion proposing an extension enabling it to report by 27 March next year.
John Pugh
Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that if we have an unreformed and larger House of Lords and a smaller House of Commons in 2015, with the payroll vote constituting a larger percentage, it will be a huge step backwards for democracy in this country? We cannot take an à la carte attitude to constitutional reform.
The Deputy Prime Minister
I do not think that there is anything à la carte about the White Paper and the draft Bill and the scrutiny to which they are being subjected by a Joint Committee. Indeed, I do not think that there is anything à la carte or arbitrary left in a debate that has been raging for more than 100 years. I think that it would be a big step forward for democracy if we were finally to secure elections to a Chamber which, let us remember, makes the laws of this land, but is as yet not directly legitimate and accountable, through the ballot box, to the people of this country.
Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab)
May I ask the Deputy Prime Minister for some clarity on his party’s views on House of Lords reform? If he is able in this Parliament to get his proposals through for a second Chamber that is 80% elected with peers serving one term of 15 years, will his party still want in a future Parliament to remove the remaining 20% of appointed peers and bishops so that we have a fully elected second Chamber?
The Deputy Prime Minister
As the right hon. Gentleman knows, I and my party start from the simple principled point that, in common with many other bicameral systems around the world, it is sensible to have both Chambers directly legitimised by—
The Deputy Prime Minister
Yes, of course fully; I support a fully elected second Chamber. The right hon. Gentleman’s party achieved precisely 0% of election to the other Chamber. I modestly suggest that if we achieve 80%, that will be better than 0%.
Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
The Deputy Prime Minister will be aware that the greatest barrier to reform of the other place exists in the other place. Will he be prepared to use the Parliament Act, if necessary, to drive through this very important reform and to bring greater democratic accountability to the democratic process?
The Deputy Prime Minister
As the Prime Minister himself has said, the Government will support this Bill as they support any Bill. That is in the coalition agreement: there is an unambiguous commitment that we will pursue this Bill as forcefully as we can. That means that the Parliament Act would be invoked in the normal way, if it were to come to that, but I hope that it will not. I hope we will be able to build consensus across all parts of the House in favour of meaningful reform. That is precisely why the work of the Joint Committee, which will report by the end of March next year, is so important.
Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab)
Is not the Deputy Prime Minister just rushing in again, rather than waiting for the House of Lords Joint Committee to report? He is already giving us his opinions on what he is going to be doing. Why does he not wait for the Joint Committee to publish its report before giving us his opinions on it?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I cannot hide my opinions about reform of the House of Lords. It has been debated for well over 100 years. We have been perfectly open about this. We have published a White Paper, which was generated in part by discussions involving input from all major parties in the House. We have left a number of options open in that White Paper, including whether we should have 100% or 80% directly elected and the precise method of election. I hope the Joint Committee will be able to shed some light on those issues when it reports at the end of March next year.
Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Nick Clegg)
As Deputy Prime Minister, I support the Prime Minister on a full range of—[Laughter.]
The Deputy Prime Minister
As I was saying, I support the Prime Minister on a full range of Government policies and initiatives, and within Government I take special responsibility for this Government’s programme of political and constitutional reform.
Nigel Mills
Over the years, we have introduced more than 1,000 tax reliefs, ranging from the vital to the obscure. Why is the Deputy Prime Minister so opposed to tax relief that supports marriage?
The Deputy Prime Minister
My own view is reflected in the coalition agreement, where this issue is among a number of others on which the coalition parties make an explicit agreement to disagree. That is because of a philosophical difference. I believe the state should be cautious about seeking to use the tax system to encourage people to take what, at the end of the day, are very private and emotional decisions about whether or not they should get married.
Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab)
Mr Speaker:
“we must do everything we can to avoid a great big split in the European Union…That’s bad for jobs and growth in this country.”
That is what the Deputy Prime Minister said before the European summit. We now have a great split. Does he think the Prime Minister was right to put party interest before national interest?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I am not going to rake over the results of the summit. The crucial thing is what we do now as a country, and on that issue there is absolutely no difference between the Prime Minister and myself or the two coalition parties. We are totally committed to full engagement in the European Union. Why? Because, as some business leaders set out very clearly in a letter this morning in The Daily Telegraph, 3 million people’s jobs directly depend on our place in what remains the world’s largest borderless single market, in our European backyard.
Sadiq Khan
The Deputy Prime Minister cannot answer a simple, straightforward question. I will give him a chance again: does he think the Prime Minister was right?
The Deputy Prime Minister has also said that the Prime Minister’s actions at the EU summit have left the UK in an “isolated position”. As you will be aware, Mr Speaker, the justification the Liberal Democrats give for propping up this Conservative-led Government is to act as a restraining influence. Well, they have failed on tuition fees, they have failed on legal aid, they have failed on the NHS, and now they have failed on Europe. Does the Deputy Prime Minister believe that the Prime Minister should re-enter negotiations and get a better deal for Britain? If he does, what is he doing about it?
The Deputy Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman refers to the reasons why this coalition Government were created—it was to clear up the mess that his party left behind. It is not easy, what we are doing, but it is right. At the beginning of this year, his party had nothing to say about the economy—[Interruption.]
The Deputy Prime Minister
At the beginning of this year, the right hon. Gentleman’s party had nothing to say about the economy. At least they are consistent: they are completing this year with still nothing to say about how to save our economy.
Mr Speaker
I do not usually fail to spot the hon. Gentleman, but there we go.
Toby Perkins
T2. Members on both sides of the House are very concerned about the implications for local communities and community cohesion of the initial proposals from the Boundary Commission. Although I recognise the importance of getting the numbers between constituencies relatively similar, community cohesion is also really important. Will the Deputy Prime Minister reserve the right not to support the Boundary Commission proposals if they are considered against community—
The Deputy Prime Minister
As the hon. Gentleman knows, the whole system has been devised so that it is not in the gift of politicians, still less the Government, to draw lines on the map to decide where these new boundaries are set; that is for the independent boundary commissions. There is a process of consultation and appeal, which is now ongoing. But I am glad he recognises that the principle is a perfectly valid one: that people’s votes should be worth the same weight and esteem, wherever they live in this country.
Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)
T4. Wiltshire schools have long felt short-changed by funding allocations for education, so they will welcome the doubling of pupil premium moneys for our schools in Wiltshire to more than £5 million next year. Now that Labour councillors in Manchester have voted for the pupil premium to be scrapped, will the Deputy Prime Minister consider giving our schools next year some of the more than £80 million of pupil premium that their council has rejected?
The Deputy Prime Minister
The pupil premium, which by the end of this Parliament will be £2.5 billion of extra money to help schools that are educating children from the most challenging backgrounds, is a very powerful, progressive policy, and I am very proud that we have delivered it, as a coalition Government. We have been searching in vain for months to find out what the Labour party would actually cut in public expenditure. Now, we have the answer: Labour councillors want to cut the pupil premium that benefits some of the most deprived children in this country. That is progressive politics for you!
Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)
T3. Eighteen months ago, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary went together to Germany, and they were met by the right-wing Liberal Foreign Minister of Germany, Guido Westerwelle, who was quoted as saying that he was pleased to meet his “closest friends” and “fabulous partners”. The German Foreign Minister was in Britain this week. Did he meet the Deputy Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary together here, and did they discuss whether they are still the closest friends and partners?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I did meet Guido Westerwelle, the German Foreign Minister, yesterday, as did the Foreign Secretary.
The Deputy Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman wants to know whether we met in the same room or not. Okay, we did not; we met separately. Hold the headlines, “Foreign Secretary and Deputy Prime Minister have separate meetings”. Honestly, he is really scraping the barrel. We all agreed, as I explained earlier to the over-excitable right hon. Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan), that it was very important that Germany and Britain should work together on deepening and widening the single market, and on promoting competitiveness and growth, upon which the jobs of millions of people depend in this country and elsewhere in Europe.
Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con)
T7. In the context of House of Lords reform, will the Deputy Prime Minister say whether consideration has been given to a form of representation for British overseas territories in a revised second Chamber?
The Deputy Prime Minister
This is not something that has been looked at as closely as my hon. Friend would perhaps wish. We have set out our ideas in the White Paper. As I said earlier, they are now being subject to scrutiny by the Joint Committee, and the Government will make their final views known shortly thereafter.
Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab)
T5. Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that any future referendum held in the United Kingdom or in any part of it should be carried out under the supervision of the Electoral Commission? If so, what is he going to do to ensure that?
The Deputy Prime Minister
Clearly, any referendum needs to be held in a way that enjoys public trust and is fair and objective, on whatever subject and in whatever part of the United Kingdom.
Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con)
T11. Will the Deputy Prime Minister join me in welcoming the agreement between the Government and the trade unions on public sector pensions? It shows that the Government have been prepared to listen and negotiate successfully with trade unions to get a deal that is fair for everyone?
The Deputy Prime Minister
My right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary to the Treasury will be giving a statement on this matter immediately after Question Time. I am very pleased that a heads of agreement has been reached between the Government and trade unions under all four schemes, not only because it ensures the Government’s objective of putting public sector pensions on to a financially sustainable footing, but, much more importantly, because it means that millions of people working in the public services, whether in our schools, in our hospitals or in local government, will now be assured, at a time of great uncertainty, that they will have among the very best pensions in this country for years and years to come.
Alun Michael (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)
T6. I want to ask the Deputy Prime Minister about his new year’s resolutions. The Leader of the House has reminded all Ministers of the following:“When Parliament is in session the most important announcements of Government policy should be made, in the first instance, to Parliament.”—[Official Report, 5 December 2011; Vol. 537, c. 73.]Given that, and given that the Deputy Prime Minister is one of the worst offenders, will he make it his new year’s resolution to behave himself in future?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I do not need a new year’s resolution to be reminded that it is important to behave oneself at all times.
Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)
T12. Will the Deputy Prime Minister confirm that if charities are to be covered by the register of lobbyists, their donors will be properly protected, because many give anonymously for very good reason?
The Deputy Prime Minister
As the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper) explained earlier, the consultation will be published in the new year. I hope that my hon. Friend the Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart) will find satisfactory answers to his questions in the course of that consultation.
Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab)
T8. Returning to the issue of electoral registration, does the Deputy Prime Minister believe that the proportion of the population registered to vote will be as high or higher at the end of the individual registration process as it is now?
The Deputy Prime Minister
Of course we will work very hard to make sure that that is the case. The hon. Lady will know—this is a source of concern for everybody—that, because of research that the Government commissioned from the Electoral Commission, the latest statistics show that about 85% to 87% of people were registered on the electoral register as of last December, which compares with about 93% to 95% 10 years earlier, in 2000. So something went dramatically wrong in the last decade when her party was in government; more and more people fell off the register. Our register is now roughly at the same level of completeness as that in Northern Ireland, which is why we must all work together to make sure that we get the details on individual electoral registration right.
Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
I wish the Deputy Prime Minister a merry Christmas, but if the Prime Minister was killed in a terrorist attack, who would take charge of the Government? Will the Deputy Prime Minister confirm that it would not be him, as he leads a party that has less support than the UK Independence party?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I receive the hon. Gentleman’s season’s greetings in the spirit in which they were intended. As he knows, appropriate arrangements would be made in that very unfortunate event. I must say, however, that his morbid fascination with the premature death of his own party leader is a subject not for me, but for the Chief Whip.
Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)
T9. Senior high school pupils have just three and a half weeks remaining to submit their applications for university. Does the Deputy Prime Minister think that applications will rise or decrease, given his broken promise on introducing £9,000 tuition fees? What impact does he think that will have on social mobility?
The Deputy Prime Minister
What I, of course, hope is that as people focus on the reality and substance of the new system rather than the misleading polemic about it, they will come to appreciate that at the moment thousands of students on part-time courses, under the system introduced by the hon. Gentleman’s Government, pay fees as students whereas under the new system no student will pay a penny of fees at all while they are studying at university. The method of repayment, which is in effect a form of time-limited graduate tax, is more progressive, not less, than the more regressive system that it seeks to replace.
Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)
According to The Mail on Sunday, MPs are on day five of our holiday. Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that the statutory register of lobbyists ought to include a strict overview of a very shadowy organisation that puts itself forward as the TaxPayers Alliance?
The Deputy Prime Minister
My experience is that one should not believe much that one reads in the Daily Mail and The Mail on Sunday. The key point is that the consultation on the register of lobbyists will be issued in the new year, and will seek to define what we mean by lobbyists and the rules that will then be applied evenly to all kinds of lobbyists.
Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)
T10. We understand that the Deputy Prime Minister has been given responsibility by the Prime Minister for rebuilding bridges with our European partners. Will he tell the House how he intends to go about fulfilling that responsibility?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I can tell the hon. Gentleman one way in which I think it is incredibly important that we as a country should show leadership. On 27 January, there will be a European Union summit of all European Union countries aimed precisely at, in my view, the most important issue of all, which is how we boost competitiveness and growth within the eurozone and across the European continent. We, as a coalition Government, will come to that summit with some bold ideas about how we can increase growth, increase competitiveness and increase employment across the European Union and—yes—we will stay until the end.
Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)
In September last year, the right hon. Gentleman told the House:
“We promised a new politics. Today is the day we must begin to deliver on that promise…We must put people back in charge.”—[Official Report, 6 September 2010; Vol. 515, c. 44.]
Why was that true for the doomed referendum on the alternative vote but not for the public’s view on Britain’s relationship with the EU?
The Deputy Prime Minister
As he knows, we have legislated to make it quite clear—the Foreign Secretary has pioneered and led on this legislation—that if there were to be a major transfer of power from this House to Brussels and from the UK to the EU, there should absolutely be a referendum. We are the first Government to have guaranteed to the British people that if we give up more power to the EU, they will have their say. I do not think we could be more crystal clear than that.
Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)
The Deputy Prime Minister said earlier that there was no criminal sanction on individuals if they failed to register to vote. The only reason that is so is that the obligation rests on the householder, on whom there is a criminal sanction. Does the Deputy Prime Minister accept that as we move towards individual registration, Ministers must reconsider the proposal to allow opting out without any criminal sanction whatsoever?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I made it clear to the House on a previous occasion that we accept the arguments against providing an opt-out, and we will reflect that in the final legislation. On the quite tangled issue of what is, and what is not, an offence, the right hon. Gentleman is quite right that at the moment the offence applies not to registration, but to the provision of information on behalf of a household—in other words, to the obligation to provide information about other people in the household. It is not an offence at the moment not to register. He makes a valid point that is a valid subject for debate, and it was raised by the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee: under individual electoral registration, the obligation clearly falls more squarely on the individual, rather than on the so-called head of the household. We think that we need to proceed very carefully when it comes to creating new offences in this area, but we are, of course, prepared to listen, and will continue to do so.
Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD)
Will the Deputy Prime Minister welcome the remarks made by our fellow member of the European Liberal Democrats, Herr Westerwelle, who said that Britain would still be welcome at the very heart of European economic decision making, and that some of the concerns that we raised at the Brussels summit could still be addressed?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I strongly agree that the decisions taken at last week’s summit were, at the end of the day, all about the fiscal and budgetary rules that accompany a country’s membership of a currency union, but that does not, and will not, exclude our country from having the ability to continue not only to participate in, but to play a leading role in shaping policy and debates on the wider economic reform of the European Union as a whole. That is what we intend to show in the weeks and months ahead.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
What will the Deputy Prime Minister say over the Christmas period—I hope that he has a very good Christmas—about the many people in our country who are unemployed? A million young people, and many thousands of young graduates, are unemployed. What new thing can he whisper into the Prime Minister’s ear so that we get this sorted?
The Deputy Prime Minister
First, I hope that people will be increasingly informed about the details of the youth contract, which will start in April next year—a new billion-pound programme that will provide 250,000 work experience places to any 18 to 24-year-olds who want to take part in a work placement scheme. It will also provide a new subsidy, worth about half the basic wage, to thousands of young people who are seeking employment. The key thing is that from April next year, under the youth contract, every single 18 to 24-year-old who cannot find work will have the opportunity to earn or learn.
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)
May I return the Deputy Prime Minister to the issue of Lords reform? Like him, I support a 100% elected House. Often, when I read the deliberations of the Joint Committee on House of Lords Reform, I am concerned that there is a very negative view coming forward from a variety of Members. Does he have any view on the fact that a consensus is perhaps emerging, which might speed the passage of legislation?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I cannot find my notes on the latest social attitudes survey, which was published recently, but in it, public opinion was very clear: only 6% of the members of the British public surveyed supported the status quo—an unelected House of Lords. The vast majority wanted the House of Lords to be fully elected, partially elected, or even abolished. As for those who say that the issue is a minority distraction, I totally accept that there are many more important things weighing on people’s minds at the moment—not least jobs, unemployment, and growth in our economy, which remains our absolute priority—but the vast majority of people, when they stop and think about it, want a reformed House of Lords.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)
1. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Justice on reform of the European Court of Human Rights.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
I have regular discussions with the Justice Secretary, during which we talk about a large number of issues of concern to both of us, including the reform of the European Court of Human Rights.
Jeremy Corbyn
Does the Attorney-General agree that the European Court of Human Rights and the European convention on human rights are very important safeguards of the rights and liberties of people all over the Council of Europe area, and that any diminution of British participation or support, or acceptance of the Court’s rulings, would be damaging to the human rights of people in this country and would, of course, diminish the value of the Court, which is one of the great achievements of post-war Europe?
The Attorney-General
I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman that both the Court and the convention are of great importance to the United Kingdom, and I also agree that it is important that the United Kingdom should play a full part in the work of the convention and the work of the Court. As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, we currently have the chairmanship of the Council of Europe, and during that time we are seeking to take forward and implement a reform programme for the Court which will enhance its efficiency and effectiveness and particularly enable it to address the vast backlog of cases that it is facing.
Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD)
Will Ministers seek to make allowances for Council of Europe members with strong legal traditions to ensure that the Court is an effective functioning court in which gross abuses of human rights do not wait in long queues behind cases that do not raise such important general principles?
The Attorney-General
Yes, the right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right about what we should be seeking to achieve. I can assure him that in trying to achieve our aims in the course of our chairmanship, we are looking very much to diplomatic initiatives which will bring us together with other partner states in carrying this agenda forward. We certainly cannot do it on our own, and the success of our initiative is entirely dependent on taking the other member states with us. I entirely agree with the right hon. Gentleman that the backlog of the Court is a serious issue. It means that people are waiting years simply to receive a five-line letter saying that their claim is non-admissible. That is deeply unsatisfactory, and at the same time admissible claims are taking a very long time to be heard.
Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)
I wish Ministers well in their work in trying to reform the Court, but is it not a fact that more than 100,000 of the backlog cases come from one country, Russia, because there is no rule of law and no confidence in courts there at all? So has the time come to consider seriously whether we should ask Russia to leave the Council of Europe until such time as its domestic legislation meets some of the minimal obligations of membership?
The Attorney-General
Membership of the Council of Europe and whether a country is excluded is not a matter for the United Kingdom on its own. The object of the convention is to improve standards throughout member states which are signatories. In fairness, the right hon. Gentleman may well accept that despite difficulties in many areas and with certain countries, standards are progressively being raised. Whether the backlog coming from Russia is quite as high as the right hon. Gentleman says I am not sure, but I think we can say that Russia makes a substantial contribution to the number of pending cases.
Stephen Phillips (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)
The current backlog stands at something of the order of 165,000 cases, and 127,000 of those, as I understand it, come from Russia. Given the proposals from the right hon. and learned Gentleman and the Justice Secretary for dealing with the reforms to the European Court, can he give the House some idea of how long that backlog will take to deal with?
The Attorney-General
Much depends on the outcome of the reform package that we might be able to implement. There are a number of things that need to be done. First, a very large number of those cases among the total of 165,000 are non-admissible. It is a question of processing them so that the individuals concerned can be told that their cases cannot be heard and the reasons for that. When it comes to the admissible caseload, the issue for the future—clearly, we have to clear the backlog—centres on subsidiarity and the extent to which the Court relies on national courts which are correctly implementing the convention to provide the solutions. This is one of the challenges, and in doing that we also have to recognise that for many countries the right of individual petition is very important.
Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)
2. What discussions he has had with the director of the Serious Fraud Office on the potential benefits of introducing corporate deferred prosecution agreements.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
I have had a number of discussions with the director of the Serious Fraud Office about the potential benefits of introducing corporate deferred prosecution agreements. A great deal of very positive progress on this ongoing work has occurred in the past few months among the Law Officers Department and also the Ministry of Justice.
The Attorney-General
Deferred prosecution arrangements can apply only in the case of corporate bodies.
Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)
3. What discussions he has had with the director of the Serious Fraud Office on the need for further legislation to address economic crime.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
I hold regular meetings with the director of the Serious Fraud Office where we discuss all aspects of the SFO’s work, including the need for further legislation to address economic crime, such as on deferred prosecution agreements.
Luciana Berger
I wonder whether the Attorney-General has read the speech given by the director of the Serious Fraud Office, Richard Alderman, to University college London? In that speech he said:
“One suggestion that I have is whether the time has come for us to recognise that recklessly running a financial institution may be a ground for criminal liability.”?
Does the Attorney-General agree with him?
The Attorney-General
As the hon. Lady will be aware, under the Bribery Act 2010, for example, the reckless running of a financial institution can already constitute a criminal offence. Whether that should be extended further in respect of corporations is a matter that the Government would have to consider carefully, as would the House.
Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)
The Attorney-General might be aware that one of the areas of economic crime where legislation might be lacking relates to the financial crisis. Will he advise the House on whether his conversations have included or will include the potential for investigation of the tax affairs of chief executives and directors of failed financial institutions?
The Attorney-General
That would normally be a matter for Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, not the Serious Fraud Office. However, the position of any prosecutorial authority is clear: if there is evidence of criminal conduct, it is in the public interest that it should be stopped and that those engaged in it should be punished if found guilty.
Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab)
If the Attorney-General has not already done so, will he discuss with the Serious Fraud Office the possibility of bringing prosecutions arising out of the collapse of Farepak five years ago, when 120,000 people lost £38 million? If that is not possible, will he see whether it is possible to make legislative change to ensure that it does not happen again?
The Attorney-General
Such legislative change is a matter for another Government Department. On the question of prosecutions, I am not in a position to comment on an individual case. If the hon. Lady wishes to bring further details to my attention, I will certainly ensure that they are passed to the director of the Serious Fraud Office.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
Is my right hon. and learned Friend surprised and/or disappointed that there has not been a series of prosecutions for fraud of bankers following the recent financial crisis?
The Attorney-General
If a matter that requires investigation is brought to my attention and to the attention of the Serious Fraud Office, the Serious Fraud Office or other prosecutorial authorities will investigate it. The fact that there may have been a financial collapse does not necessarily mean that criminal offences have been committed.
Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)
Tax evasion and tax fraud cost the Exchequer billions every year. If the Government are serious about reducing the deficit, would they not do better by chasing the tax evaders and tax fraudsters, rather than sacking public service workers and cutting public services?
The Attorney-General
If I may say so, that is rather a long way from the Serious Fraud Office. If the hon. Gentleman wants the statistics on the pursuit of tax evasion, I would be happy to provide them and write to him about it.
Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)
4. What plans he has to conduct a review on the disclosure of evidence obtained through undercover police operations.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
I have no plans to conduct such a review. The Director of Public Prosecutions is taking action to improve how the Crown Prosecution Service deals with cases of this kind following the recent independent inquiry by the right hon. Sir Christopher Rose into the Radcliffe-on-Soar power station protest cases.
Toby Perkins
Has the Attorney-General made any progress in drawing up a memorandum of understanding for the sharing of information about the authorisation and activity of an undercover officer between the Crown Prosecution Service and the police?
The Attorney-General
The Director of Public Prosecutions has agreed to adopt the recommendations made following the recent independent inquiry by Sir Christopher Rose, which state that explicit guidance should be included in a prosecution team disclosure manual. The DPP has also confirmed that specific training on the proper handling of cases involving undercover officers will be given to all senior lawyers in the Crown Prosecution Service’s central casework division and complex casework units and to the chief Crown prosecutors and any CPS staff who chair case management panels. Relevant guidance is already available to CPS lawyers on their obligations under the Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996 and joint working will take place with the police to ensure that everyone understands where their responsibilities lie in the matter.
Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)
On the issue of disclosure, will my right hon. and learned Friend ensure that he or the CPS thoroughly look into the circumstances in which a major and costly criminal trial involving allegations of police corruption collapsed recently in the Crown court at Swansea in order to ensure that lessons can be learned so that such mistakes relating to disclosure are not made again?
The Attorney-General
I can assure my hon. Friend that the Director of Public Prosecutions takes the collapse of that case very seriously indeed, and there will be internal inquiries and, I am sure, inquiries by the police into why it took place and the lessons that need to be learned from it. It is of course worth bearing in mind that, in terms of its history, it is very much a historic case, but that is no reason for any complacency about the lessons that we might be able to learn for the future.
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
5. What recent discussions he has had with the Crown Prosecution Service on the case of Babar Ahmad.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
I have had no recent discussion with the Crown Prosecution Service in relation to that matter.
Caroline Lucas
I should really like to understand what happened to the evidence in the Babar Ahmad case and, specifically, why the CPS apparently gave it directly to the United States without considering it first. Ministers have refused my written question on the matter, saying that it would “prejudice…proceedings”, so will the Attorney-General explain why and tell us what bilateral agreements are in place to allow evidence gathered by UK police about crimes alleged to have been committed in the UK to be provided to the US authorities in cases considered for trial in the US, such as that of Babar Ahmad?
The Attorney-General
As the hon. Lady will appreciate, the case is live, and that is the reason—I have no doubt—why the CPS has been guarded about any response that it can give to her. She has raised a number of very specific questions, however, and I respectfully suggest that the best thing to do is for me to write to her and to try to answer the specific matters that she raised at the end of her question.
Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)
What role can the Attorney-General and the Government play in ensuring that there are no more Babar Ahmad cases?
The Attorney-General
I have to try to work out where the right hon. Gentleman’s question is coming from, but the main complaint about the Babar Ahmad case is the length of time that it is taking. As he will be aware, proceedings started on 5 August 2004, and in this country proceedings, including the refusal of leave to appeal to the House of Lords, were completed on 6 June 2007. The problems and delays since then are in fact due to the European Court of Human Rights, and that ties in with my answers to earlier questions about the inordinate length of time that it takes to bring such cases to the European Court of Human Rights—with consequences, in the case of Babar Ahmad, that are plainly undesirable.
Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)
The Attorney-General may have read on 11 December in The Sunday Times, as I did with some interest, that the Government will be
“asking British magistrates to examine detailed evidence involved in each case”
and bringing forward plans to allow judges
“to order a trial in Britain if they considered it would serve justice better.”
Given that the House is committed to reforming extradition, are those the sort of changes that we are to expect, and when are we going to hear about them officially?
The Attorney-General
As the hon. Lady appreciates, the Home Office leads on the question of extradition. I indicated when I last took questions that the Government take the view that, first, they need to study the Scott Baker report, which they are doing, and then they will come to the House with proposals. I hope that that will be as soon as possible. In the meantime, I suggest to her that speculation in The Sunday Times is not always the best indication of Government policy.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
6. What assessment he has made of the potential effects on prosecution rates of planned changes to legal aid for victims of domestic violence.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
I have not made any assessment of the potential effects on prosecution rates of any planned changes to legal aid.
Lilian Greenwood
Does the Attorney-General agree with the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly) that a woman who has reliable eye witnesses, police and medical evidence, photos of injuries, has fled to a refuge and has a partner on a perpetrator programme should not receive civil legal aid to help bring her abuser to justice? If not, what will the Attorney-General do about it?
The Attorney-General
My responsibility is the superintendence of the Crown Prosecution Service for prosecuting those who are guilty of domestic violence, and the question of civil legal aid does not come into it one way or another.
Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con)
Will my right hon. and learned Friend confirm that the Government intend to waive the financial eligibility limits in cases whereby a person applies for an order for protection against domestic violence, such as a non-molestation or occupation order?
The Attorney-General
There again, sadly, I am afraid that I have to say to my hon. Friend that she has to direct that question to Ministers in the Ministry of Justice. I do not have a responsibility for civil legal aid.
Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)
In view of the anxiety that there will be fewer prosecutions of people responsible for domestic violence as a result of these changes, will the Attorney-General agree to report to the House, a year after the changes have come in, on the number of prosecutions before and after the changes?
The Attorney-General
I appreciate the hon. Lady’s point, which is an important one. It is the view, and certainly the policy, of the Crown Prosecution Service that it will continue to prosecute cases of domestic violence and to give them a high priority, as I have said in this House on several occasions before. I would be very concerned if any of the other changes taking place in civil legal aid were to have an impact on that, but I have no reason to suppose from my discussions with the Director of Public Prosecutions that that is the case. The emphasis on prosecuting domestic violence remains a top priority for the Crown Prosecution Service.
Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
Many of the victims of domestic violence have been trafficked into this country for domestic servitude. What is the Government’s view on providing legal aid to victims of human trafficking?
The Attorney-General
In so far as somebody may be a victim, they do not need legal aid. My hon. Friend will be aware that for victims of human trafficking who, in the course of human trafficking, may have technically committed offences, there is a protocol in place to ensure that they should not be prosecuted without very good reason. From that point of view, I do not see, in terms of my responsibilities for criminal justice, that their needing legal aid as victims comes into it.
Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab)
7. What recent assessment he has made of the effects on prosecution rates of specialist domestic violence courts.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
Evaluations of specialist domestic violence courts in 2005 and in 2008 clearly demonstrated that SDVCs involving specialist domestic violence support services have contributed to improving prosecution rates as well as safety for domestic violence victims. There have been no further assessments since 2008.
Roberta Blackman-Woods
County Durham achieved specialist domestic violence court status in 2006, since when there has been a huge increase in the number of successful prosecutions for domestic violence. These courts have not only brought more perpetrators to justice but have achieved more appropriate sentencing. What guarantee can the Attorney-General give that those very positive outcomes will not be put at risk by cuts to the court services?
The Attorney-General
First, I entirely agree with everything the hon. Lady said. I pay tribute to the previous Government for the emphasis that was placed on this area when the SDVC system was set up. Although there is a court rationalisation programme that will impact on SDVC provision in 21 court houses in 22 systems, all courts affected have received guidance and support to ensure a smooth transition so that the revised courts will be able to provide the same quality of service. That is a commitment that the DPP and the CPS take extremely seriously. I very much hope that although some courts will have to close, the quality of service that is available at the courts that are open and to which transfers of the work are made remains of the highest quality.
Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)
8. What charging responsibilities have been transferred to the police from the Crown Prosecution Service.
Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)
9. Whether the Crown Prosecution Service plans to evaluate the effects of the transfer of responsibility for charging from the CPS to the police.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
The transfer of charges from the Crown Prosecution Service to the police under the fourth edition of the DPP’s guidance on charging was completed in June 2011. The following charging responsibilities have now been transferred to the police from the Crown Prosecution Service: summary-only matters where a not guilty plea is anticipated; criminal damage offences under £5,000 where a not guilty plea is anticipated and can be tried summarily; and Fraud Act 2006 and handling offences where a guilty plea is anticipated. There are certain exceptions that must continue to be referred to the CPS, which is currently undertaking an evaluation of the transfer that is expected to be completed early in 2012.
Graham Jones
Is the main reason for transferring the charging responsibility to save money, and how much money does the CPS expect to save?
The Attorney-General
No, it is not to save money. It was a question of whether the system could be operated more efficiently. Some anxiety was expressed when the pilots were commenced, but the evidence from the Crown Prosecution Service has overwhelmingly been that the system is working well. For that reason, we are happy to consider, on a pragmatic basis, rolling it out further. Ultimately, whatever charging decision is made, decisions on prosecution will remain with the CPS.
Yasmin Qureshi
Before I ask my question, I should declare that I was employed by the Crown Prosecution Service many years ago, that I have been instructed by the CPS as an independent barrister and that I have a family member who works for the CPS. In my area, Greater Manchester police are closing their files management unit, which prepares files for the CPS, so that the officers can be put on the beat. Coupled with the devolved powers to police officers, that has led to a deterioration in the quality of the files that are sent by the police to the CPS. Because of this money saving by the police, the CPS has ended up spending more resources and personnel on sorting out these cases, which should have been dealt with properly by the police.
The Attorney-General
If what the hon. Lady says is correct, it should not be happening. If she would like to give me the details of the particular office where this is occurring, the best thing that I can do is to have it looked into and write to her. I accept that all transitions can cause problems, but the CPS is clear that the basis for allowing these changes to go forward is that they will improve efficiency.