(13 years ago)
Commons ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)
1. What progress has been made by the Historical Enquiries Team; and if he will make a statement.
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen Paterson)
Following the devolution of policing and justice in April 2010, matters relating to the Historical Enquiries Team are the responsibility of the devolved Administration in Northern Ireland and the Minister of Justice.
Michael Ellis
I much appreciate the Minister’s response and the content of it. I welcome the progress made by the Historical Enquiries Team. May I be reassured that its case work will be completed by 2014?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s question. I spoke to the Chief Constable this morning, who confirmed that the team is investigating 3,268 deaths and that it is on target to finish as planned.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
The HET investigated the murder of my cousin, Kenneth Smyth, on 10 December 1971—those on the street knew who committed the murder—and Lexie Cummings was murdered on 15 June 1982. HET investigations into both cases concluded that no action should be taken. The concern is that the investigations might not have been thorough, so does the Secretary of State accept that confidence needs to be instilled in the Unionist community and that the HET therefore has considerable work to do?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful for that question. I do not entirely agree. The HET is impartial, and the latest polling commissioned on the reaction of the families is extraordinarily high: 90.5% said they were very satisfied or satisfied with the performance of the HET.
Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con)
The former Northern Ireland Secretary, the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain), rightly set up the Historical Enquiries Team, but disturbing allegations were made yesterday that his computer might have been hacked. Does my right hon. Friend share those concerns, and will he assure the House that the Northern Ireland Office—
Mr Speaker
Order. The difficulty with that question, notwithstanding its notable ingenuity, is that it does not relate to the work of the Historical Enquiries Team, so we had better leave it there.
Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)
Historical inquiries into police officers are conducted by the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland. Given that that is a Crown appointment, what recent discussions has the Secretary of State held with the Minister of Justice, David Ford, on the appointment of a successor to the current ombudsman, Al Hutchinson, who has made it clear that he intends to leave his post at the end of January?
Mr Paterson
The appointment of the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland is a devolved matter. I spoke to the Minister of Justice, David Ford, this morning, and we agreed to meet shortly to discuss Al Hutchinson’s replacement.
Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)
Does the Secretary of State agree that it is not for Westminster to set the agenda but that the people of Northern Ireland should decide how and when they look back, and what they look at?
Mr Paterson
Yes, my hon. Friend makes a good point. The Government and Westminster do not own the past. Contentious, difficult and fraught issues must be handled with the consensus of local people in Northern Ireland.
Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)
Notwithstanding some of the limitations and differentials that attach to the task of the HET, it has done much good work. In the context of dealing with the past more widely, does the Secretary of State believe that more could be done to draw out the issues, patterns and lessons that can be learned from the HET’s work, which at present has gone only to the families and not to the wider public?
Mr Paterson
The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. The HET is building up an extraordinary archive of knowledge. As he knows, I am interested in opening up Government archives so that they may be assessed by professionals. Down the road, this might be a matter that is well worth discussing with the devolved Executive to see whether the HET can form the basis of an archive for historians.
Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con)
2. What discussions he has had with Ministers in the Northern Ireland Executive on economic development.
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen Paterson)
I meet regularly with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister to discuss matters including the Northern Ireland economy, and the Minister of State met last week with the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment to consider a range of issues related to economic development.
Eric Ollerenshaw
Does my right hon. Friend agree that improved transport links between Northern Ireland and the mainland will be vital for economic development, and that the completion of the M6-Heysham port motorway link will be vital?
Mr Paterson
I admire the skill of that question, and I congratulate my hon. Friend on working for his constituents. I am glad to say that there is a sailing twice daily to Northern Ireland, and I hope the new link will boost trade between Northern Ireland and his constituents.
Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)
Given the nature of our local economy, does the Secretary of State agree that the economic development of Northern Ireland will depend on stable industrial relations? Does he further agree that the Government must do more to deal with the genuine concerns of public sector workers with their pensions under siege, while those who have caused the economic crisis, particularly bankers, are getting away scot-free?
Mr Paterson
I thank the hon. Lady for that question. I do not entirely agree with her. The strikes today are most regrettable. They will not help a single business in Northern Ireland. They will not bring a single job to Northern Ireland. The Government are in talks with the unions and a very fair offer has been made, considering that the cost of public pensions increased by a third over the past 10 years to £32 billion. We are all in this together, and the unions should work with the Government.
Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)
In those discussions with Northern Ireland Ministers about economic development, has my right hon. Friend heard appreciation for the fact that the UK has remained outside the euro and has retained its triple A rating?
Mr Paterson
My hon. Friend is spot on. We came to power with interest rates higher than Italy’s. Thanks to the very disciplined and determined manner in which the coalition has addressed the deficit, we now have interest rates level-pegging with Germany’s. That is of benefit to every single person in Northern Ireland.
David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)
The Secretary of State will be aware of the pay-as-you-go heating oil tank developed by Kingspan Environmental in my constituency. Could the Secretary of State give us an update on the development of the enterprise zone that he piloted and tell us what benefits that will bring companies such as Kingspan in my area?
Mr Paterson
I am extremely interested in that project. In opposition, I talked about turning the whole of Northern Ireland into an enterprise zone. That resulted in the consultation earlier this year looking at ways in which we could help develop the private economy. Quite separately, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor has proposed enterprise zones throughout the UK. Establishing those enterprise zones is entirely in devolved hands and I very much hope the Executive will take up the offer made in the Budget a few months ago.
Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con)
3. What assessment he has made of the state of the economy in Northern Ireland.
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen Paterson)
The Northern Ireland economy is over-dependent on public spending. The Government share a commitment with the Northern Ireland Executive to rebalance it over time by promoting investment and growing the private sector. There are many world-class Northern Ireland businesses. We need more of them.
Karen Lumley
Will the Minister confirm that last week the annual survey of hours and earnings showed that Northern Ireland earnings increased by 3.5%, compared with less than 1% on the mainland? Does he agree that rebalancing the economy and the creation of private sector jobs is the key to Northern Ireland’s recovery?
Mr Paterson
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. One survey showed that public spending represents 77.6% of GDP in Northern Ireland. We know that that is wholly unsustainable, and we are committed to rebalancing the economy over time, working closely with the Executive.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
One of the ways of rebalancing the economy towards the private sector is to ensure that there is a flow of funds from the banking sector to private firms. What steps will the Government take to ensure that the credit easing measures announced yesterday will apply effectively in Northern Ireland, given the lack of market penetration by UK mainland banks and the high dependence on Irish banks?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful for the opportunity to clarify that the national loan guarantee scheme, which the Chancellor announced yesterday, applies to Northern Ireland. That will be of great benefit to small businesses right across Northern Ireland.
Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)
I understand that the average private sector wage in Northern Ireland is £20,000 a year, compared with the average public sector wage of £29,000. What impact does my right hon. Friend believe that yesterday’s announcement from the Chancellor about the ability to set public sector wages locally will have on Northern Ireland?
Mr Paterson
My hon. Friend is right. There was a survey which showed a 41.5% difference between a public sector wage and a private sector wage. It shows the task we have in helping to revive the private sector and making it an attractive place for bright, enterprising young people in Northern Ireland to go into. That is very much what we would like to do.
Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)
Does the Secretary of State accept that the proposed changes to public sector pension contributions will have an even more severe impact in Northern Ireland because of the shape and balance of our economy?
Mr Paterson
First, I congratulate the hon. Member on having won the election for the leadership of his party. I look forward to working with him, as the leader, as I worked with him while in opposition, and in recent months since I have been Secretary of State.
I do not entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman’s question. This is basically a good news story. People are living 10 years longer, and that has put huge pressure on the cost of pensions, which is up to £32 billion across the United Kingdom—an increase of a third over 10 years. Lord Hutton, who used to sit on the Government Benches here, came up with a sensible report, and I appeal to all those in Northern Ireland who are in trade unions to continue discussions with the Government because our offer is extremely fair.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
Given the importance of the Republic of Ireland to the Northern Irish economy, and the likelihood of a break-up of the eurozone, what discussions has my right hon. Friend had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Northern Ireland Executive about how the Northern Ireland economy could best cope with such a crisis?
Mr Paterson
I thank my hon. Friend. As he knows, the Chancellor and the Treasury are looking at all contingencies, because reports yesterday showed that the crisis in the eurozone is having a real impact on our economy. I am in regular contact with the Government in Dublin and will continue discussions.
Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab)
When thousands of public sector workers in Northern Ireland are worried about their pensions, with cuts to public services, and when growth figures have been so significantly downgraded, does the Secretary of State remember that, when commenting on the Budget of March 2011, he said:
“This is a Budget for growth across the whole UK in which Northern Ireland will share”?
Where did it all go wrong?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. He knows perfectly well where it went wrong. It went wrong when his colleagues landed us with the biggest deficit in Europe, and we are digging this country out.
Vernon Coaker
There we go—the complacent answer of someone who has no answers at all.
What little faith the Secretary of State has in the ability of the people of Northern Ireland to do their sums. I may not have taught maths, but even I know that if you take away £4 billion and return £142 million, it definitely does not add up to a fair deal for Northern Ireland. Is it not time that this Secretary of State stood up for Northern Ireland and told the Chancellor to get a proper plan for jobs and growth?
Mr Paterson
What we have done for Northern Ireland, as one of my colleagues said earlier, is keep interest rates low. That is the biggest service we could deliver to Northern Ireland, and thanks to the disciplined and determined manner in which we are addressing the deficit, we now have the lowest interest rates in western Europe. That benefits every family with a mortgage, and every business with an overdraft, in Northern Ireland.
Graeme Morrice (Livingston) (Lab)
4. What his policy is on a Bill of Rights for Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement.
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo Swire)
Our policy is that any legislation arising from the work of the Commission examining the case for a UK Bill of Rights would provide a vehicle through which to implement any rights specific to Northern Ireland if these can be agreed by the political parties there.
Graeme Morrice
What discussion has the Minister had with the Secretary of State for Justice on the impact that a UK Bill of Rights will have on a Northern Ireland Bill of Rights?
Mr Swire
We have regular discussions. We need to be absolutely clear that any discussion about a UK-wide Bill of Rights is distinct from a discussion about rights specific to Northern Ireland. We believe that the proper vehicle for rights specific to Northern Ireland would be a new UK Bill of Rights, if there is to be one.
Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)
The Good Friday agreement certainly calls for a Bill of Rights for Northern Ireland, but does my right hon. Friend agree that while people in Northern Ireland understandably accept the right of freedom of religious expression, for example, those rights also belong in the United Kingdom?
Mr Swire
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. People in Northern Ireland enjoy the same protection as anyone in the rest of the United Kingdom. In fact, Northern Ireland has, for instance, anti-discrimination legislation that is the strongest in Europe. We need a consensus from the Executive—from the Assembly—to make sure that this matter is finally resolved to the satisfaction of all.
Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)
5. What assessment he has made of recent political developments in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement.
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen Paterson)
The political situation in Northern Ireland is now more stable than for a generation, but stability is not an end in itself. It is time for the Assembly and Executive to work towards building a prosperous Northern Ireland in which everyone has a genuinely shared future.
Glyn Davies
The Northern Ireland Executive have published a draft programme for government. Will my right hon. Friend comment on this development, and does he welcome what is happening in Northern Ireland?
Mr Paterson
I am delighted that after six months the draft programme has come forward, and I very much hope that the Executive will crack on in working with the Assembly to deliver its main elements as soon as possible.
Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance)
One recent political development was that the Assembly agreed unanimously that the Secretary of State should convene talks to discuss how to deal with the issue of the past. Why, in the face of that consensus, does the Secretary of State refuse to do so?
Mr Paterson
That is a little unfair. Within a couple of days, I went to talk to the Speaker of the Assembly to discuss with him how best to address this issue, and I am now going to write to the leaders of all the main parties to discuss with their representatives how to take it forward. The sad problem regarding the past is that there is no consensus that we have detected. My right hon. Friend the Minister and I have been right round Northern Ireland talking to all sorts of groups involved with the past. Sadly, there is no consensus, but I will write to the parties and we will keep talking. This is very much an issue that has to be sorted out with local parties as well.
Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)
One thing on which the Secretary of State did take action in relation to the past was the Finucane issue. There was a widespread welcome in Northern Ireland for his decision to draw a line under that in the way that the Government did. Does he agree, therefore, that the decision of the Irish Prime Minister, Enda Kenny, to come to Northern Ireland last week and seek to reopen this issue and launch an international campaign is deeply unhelpful to north-south relations and invites comparisons with his attitude towards neutering the Smithwick inquiry, which is investigating the deaths of Royal Ulster Constabulary officers?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his question. The review into the Finucane case is going ahead. That is the decision of this Government, and we believe that it is the right one, as we inherited an impasse from the previous Government and called for an inquiry. We know that there are strong feelings in Dublin on this issue, and I have said privately and publicly that we recognise that they will state those differences publicly. I assure the right hon. Gentleman, however, that we will not let this issue in any way damage the excellent relations we have with the Government in Dublin.
Mr Dodds
I am very grateful to the Secretary of State for that answer. On another issue, does he recognise that the decision by the Sinn Fein lord mayor of Belfast this week to refuse to hand out a Duke of Edinburgh award to a young man because he was an Army cadet is deeply unhelpful in terms of community relations; that it stands in stark contrast to the First Minister’s vision, set out on Saturday, of an inclusive, forward-looking Northern Ireland; and that Sinn Fein’s action has deeply disturbed people right across the community?
Mr Paterson
The right hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point. The armed forces are a wonderful example of people from right across the community working together. I have on the wristband of the Royal Irish Regiment, which has representatives from right across Northern Ireland and the Republic and from 11 different nations. They set an example to us all of how we can work together. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. A lot of noise has been taking place in the Chamber. That is very unfair on the Secretary of State, who is trying to give his answers in terms that can be heard and appreciated.
Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)
6. What representations he has received on fuel poverty in Northern Ireland.
Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)
7. What representations he has received on fuel poverty in Northern Ireland.
Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)
8. What representations he has received on fuel poverty in Northern Ireland.
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo Swire)
I attended the Opposition day debate on pensioners and winter fuel payments on 22 November. The matter was also discussed on 31 August, when I met the Minister for Welfare Reform and Northern Ireland Ministers to discuss this and other matters. Measures to tackle fuel poverty in Northern Ireland are the responsibility of Executive Ministers.
Alex Cunningham
I understand that the proportion of homes in Northern Ireland that are in fuel poverty is higher than in Scotland, England and Wales. The Housing Executive said that almost 50% of households cannot afford to heat their homes this winter. What are the Government going to do to help the people of Northern Ireland, and do they really think that it is enough?
Mr Swire
The figures are startling for Northern Ireland. These are devolved matters, and I understand that the Executive are tackling energy efficiency, maximising incomes through benefit uptake campaigns, and achieving affordable energy prices. They are also doing a lot. The Housing Executive is doing a lot about housing and the hon. Gentleman will be pleased by the announcement of £142 million over three years for Northern Ireland. Perhaps some of that could be spent on improving the housing stock.
Nick Smith
Like Northern Ireland, Wales has higher than average fuel poverty. Are the Government promoting dialogue between the devolved Administrations so that best practice and solutions that work can be shared?
Mr Swire
I remind the hon. Gentleman that, in 2004, his colleague the right hon. Member for Warley (Mr Spellar) had a target to eradicate fuel poverty in vulnerable households by 2010. The current Department for Social Development strategy states bluntly that this target will not be achieved. In fact, fuel poverty increased in Northern Ireland from 146,000 in 2004 to 302,000 in 2009.
Mr Swire
The hon. Gentleman will know that there are several schemes in Northern Ireland, such as warm homes, warm homes plus, the pilot boiler replacement scheme, the introduction of oil stamps, and the Housing Executive itself. Contrary to what Opposition Members say, the Government have maintained the winter fuel allowance and chosen to keep the higher cold weather payment allowances, which is more than the Labour Government would have done, had they won the last general election, which, mercifully, they did not.
Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con)
Does the Minister agree that the Chancellor’s announcement yesterday stopping the inexorable rise of fuel costs will be most welcome to people suffering from fuel poverty in Northern Ireland, and in Hastings and Rye?
Mr Swire
My hon. Friend is right. The Chancellor’s announcement deferring the increase from 1 January to 1 August is very welcome, as indeed is the further increase. She will also want to welcome the increases in pensions, which I believe represent the biggest increase in pensions since 1908. That will also help the most vulnerable in society.
Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
Does the Minister share my concern about the Opposition Whips’ effort to flood the Order Paper, with a third of the questions on it being identical, so that Members––
Mr Speaker
Order. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, but that has nothing to do with fuel poverty in Northern Ireland. I call Charlie Elphicke.
Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)
Does the Minister share my concern that some 70% of homes in Northern Ireland are heated with heating oil? Is not the priority to get them connected so that people can access a wider, more competitive market to bring prices down?
Mr Swire
My hon. Friend is right. That is the vulnerability of the market in Northern Ireland, which is why we welcome discussions such as those being undertaken on the undersea energy grid by the Minister, Arlene Foster, on the isles project, and on fracking, which could have a serious effect, in a beneficial way, on energy provision in Northern Ireland.
Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)
Eighty-two per cent. of homes across rural Ulster rely on the most expensive form of heating oil to heat their homes. The councils in Northern Ireland, the Assembly and the Northern Ireland parties represented in this House are united in their support for the higher form of winter fuel allowance in Northern Ireland. How is the Secretary of State representing that united political will to the Cabinet?
Mr Swire
I do not want to be cynical about the previous Government––not unless I have to be––but I draw the hon. Gentleman’s attention to the fact that they raised these allowances two years running up to the election but that their plans, had they won the election, were to reduce them. We could have stuck with those figures. We did not. We chose to increase the high level of the cold weather payment to the benefit of all who are most vulnerable.
Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)
In wishing the Minister of State the very happiest of birthdays today, may I remind him that politicians are often accused of giving warm words and cold comfort? Bearing in mind the uniquely disadvantaged position of the fuel poor in Northern Ireland, will he at least approach his colleagues in the Treasury for an uprating of the winter fuel allowance this year in view of the extremely inclement weather forecast?
Mr Swire
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I just explained to the previous questioner that we have chosen to increase allowances in a way that the previous Government were simply not going to. The cold facts are there in the spending commitment. We have nothing to apologise for; indeed, we have plenty to be proud of.
Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)
Q1. If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 30 November.
The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)
I am sure the whole House will wish to join me in paying tribute to Rifleman Sheldon Steel from 5th Battalion The Rifles. He was a highly respected soldier who had achieved a great deal and shown much potential during his time with the Army. At this very sad time, our thoughts should be with his family, his friends and his colleagues. His courage and his dedication will never be forgotten by our nation.
This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall have further such meetings later today.
Nick Smith
I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to that brave serviceman, who gave his life for our country. Our thoughts are with his family at this very difficult time.
Blaenau Gwent, my constituency, has high unemployment but great potential, and it would benefit greatly from £200 million of private sector-led investment in motor sport. Will the Prime Minister provide support for enhanced capital allowances for enterprise zones in Wales, including Blaenau Gwent, as well as in England?
The Prime Minister
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that question. First, may I congratulate him and the other 37 Members who have opted to grow additional facial hair in this month of November? It is a very good way—[Interruption.] For those who are capable of doing so, it is a very good way of raising the profile of that important illness, prostate cancer.
We are committed to providing enhanced capital allowances, and discussions are ongoing with devolved Administrations about enhanced capital allowances in their enterprise zones. We will do what we can in Blaenau Gwent, as elsewhere, and I should add that we are electrifying the line to Cardiff and looking for improvements on the M4. All the announcements that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor made yesterday will have consequentials for additional spending on infrastructure in Wales.
Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)
I am confident that the Prime Minister, like me, will praise the courage and professionalism of the Portland search and rescue helicopter. I am confident also that he will share with me the alarm, anger and disbelief of my constituents and many colleagues with coastal constituencies that it is to be axed. Will he meet me and a small delegation from South Dorset to discuss that urgent matter before a disastrous mistake is made?
The Prime Minister
I am very happy to meet my hon. Friend. I know how important it is that we have effective search and rescue facilities off our coast, and I know about the incredibly good work that they do. What the Government are looking at is the best way to deliver those services, including how they should be paid for, and it is important that that work goes ahead.
Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab)
May I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to Rifleman Sheldon Steel, from 5th Battalion The Rifles? He served with huge commitment and courage, and our deepest condolences are with his family and friends.
In June at Prime Minister’s questions, the Prime Minister praised the head teacher of Vaynor First school in Redditch for refusing to strike. Today, she has closed her school. She says:
“This has been the most difficult decision of my professional life… The difference in the summer was that I had faith in the Government… I have not seen any progress so I have decided…to strike.”
Why does the Prime Minister think that so many decent, hard-working public sector workers, many of whom have never been on strike before, feel that the Government simply are not listening?
The Prime Minister
The reason why people are going on strike is that they object to the reforms that we are making to public sector pensions, but I believe that those reforms are absolutely essential. The Labour former Work and Pensions Secretary, Lord Hutton, said that
“it is hard to imagine a better deal than this.”
What I would say, above all, to people who are on strike today is that they are going on strike at a time when negotiations are still under way. The right hon. Gentleman refers to what was said in June. Let me remind him what he said on 30 June:
“These strikes are wrong at a time when negotiations are…going on”.
Why has he changed his mind?
Mr Speaker
Order. I say to Members engaged in orchestrated barracking that it is very tedious and very juvenile, from whichever side it comes. The public do not want to hear it, and nor do I. The Leader of the Opposition will be heard, as will the Prime Minister, and that is all there is to it.
Edward Miliband
The reason public sector workers do not think the Prime Minister is listening is that the Government declared negotiations at an end four weeks ago. They said that they had made their final offer. They have not even met the unions for four weeks, since 2 November. What has he gone around saying to people? He has gone around saying that he is privately delighted that the unions have walked into his trap. That is the reality. He has been spoiling for this fight. The reason people have lost faith is that he is not being straight with them. Will he admit that 800,000 low-paid workers on £15,000 a year or less are facing an immediate tax rise of 3% on his pension plan?
The Prime Minister
I know that the right hon. Gentleman’s entire party is paid for by the unions, but I must say that what he has just told the House is extraordinary and completely and utterly untrue. The fact is there were meetings with the trade unions yesterday, there will be meetings with them tomorrow and there will be meetings on Friday. The negotiations are under way. Let me repeat what he said in June. He said that it is wrong to strike
“at a time when negotiations are…going on”.
Yet today he backs the strikes. Why? Because he is irresponsible, left-wing and weak.
Edward Miliband
The difference is that, unlike the Prime Minister, I am not going to demonise the dinner lady, the cleaner or the nurse, people who earn in a week what the Chancellor pays for his annual skiing holiday—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Members on both sides of the House need to calm down. If senior Members of the House think that it is a laughing matter, let me tell them that it is not. The public would like to see some decent behaviour and a bit of leadership on these matters, and so would I.
Edward Miliband
The Prime Minister is the one—he did not deny it—who went around saying that he is privately delighted because the unions have walked into his trap. That is the reality. The truth is that it is not only public sector workers who are paying for the failure of his plan, but private sector workers. Will he confirm that, as a result of the cuts to tax credits announced yesterday, a family on the minimum wage, taking home £200 a week, will lose a week and a half’s wages?
The Prime Minister
First, let me be absolutely clear—[Hon. Members: “Answer.”] I will answer the question—
Mr Speaker
Order. Let me say again that the Prime Minister’s answer, however long it takes, will be heard. That is the principle of democracy. The Leader of the Opposition and the Prime Minister must be heard.
The Prime Minister
Let me be clear that I do not welcome these strikes one bit. I think that we have made a very reasonable and very fair offer to public sector workers, and that is why the former Labour Pensions Secretary said that
“it is hard to imagine a better deal.”
I do not want to see any strikes. I do not want to see schools close. I do not want to see problems at our borders, but this Government have to make responsible decisions.
Let me just remind the right hon. Gentleman and the House of the facts about public sector pensions. Anyone earning less than £15,000 on a full-time equivalent salary will not see any increase in the contributions they have to make. In terms of the reforms we are making, a nurse retiring on a salary of just over £34,000 today would get a pension of £17,000, but in future she would get over £22,000. A teacher retiring on a salary of £37,000 would have got £19,000, but will now get £25,000. These are fair changes. I will tell the House why they are fair. We rejected the idea that we should level down public sector pensions. We think that public sector pensions should be generous, but as people live longer it is only right and fair that they should make greater contributions. What we see today on the Opposition Benches is a party that is in the pocket of the trade union leaders, that has to ask their permission before crossing a picket line and that take the irresponsible side of trade union leaders who have called their people out on strike when negotiations are under way.
Now let me answer his question about the low-paid—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I remind the Prime Minister gently that a large number of Members are listed on the Order Paper—Back Benchers, whom I want to hear and he wants to hear. A brief sentence will suffice.
The Prime Minister
I will wait for his next trade union-sponsored question, and then give my answer.
Edward Miliband
I am proud that millions of hard-working people in this country support the Labour party—better that than millions from Lord Ashcroft.
The problem is that the Prime Minister does not understand his own policy. He does not understand that there are part-time workers earning less than £21,000 who will be hit—800,000 low-paid, part-time workers, 90% of whom are women, will pay more. He denies that, but it is true. That is the reality.
Edward Miliband
The Prime Minister sits there shaking his head. He does not understand his own policy, and of course, he could not explain or justify what he did to everyone on low pay with the miserable deal cooked up with the Deputy Prime Minister to cut £1 billion from tax credits in the autumn statement yesterday. They have no explanation for why they are doing that—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I say to the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Mr Burley) that I do not require any assistance from him. The Leader of the Opposition will come to a question.
Edward Miliband
Let me try the Prime Minister on another matter. What will unemployment be at the time of the next autumn statement on the Office for Budget Responsibility forecast?
The Prime Minister
If we compare the end of this Parliament with the start of this Parliament, the Office for Budget Responsibility figures—let us remember that the OBR is independent, but when the right hon. Gentleman was sitting in the Treasury, the figures were fiddled by Ministers and advisers, and that no longer happens—show that 500,000 more people will be in jobs, 90,000 fewer people will be on the claimant count, and the unemployment rate will be 7.2% instead of 8.1%. That is the OBR’s forecast; it is not fiddled. The OBR is independent; and that is what the figures show.
Let me answer the right hon. Gentleman’s question, as I was not able to do so earlier, about helping the poorest people in our country. It is his party that got rid of the 10p tax—the biggest attack on the working poor. It is this Government who have taken 1.1 million people out of tax, who froze the council tax, cut the petrol tax, introduced free nursery care for two, three and four-year-olds, and are putting up the child tax credit by £390 this year and next. That is a record to be proud of, instead of the right hon. Gentleman’s appalling record of attacking the working poor.
Edward Miliband
With child poverty going up as a result of the autumn statement yesterday, the truth is that the Prime Minister could not answer the question because he is too embarrassed by the truth—[Interruption.] The Education Secretary should calm down. He tells children to behave; why does he not behave himself?
The Prime Minister is too embarrassed. There are 2.8 million people out of work according to the forecast of the Office for Budget Responsibility. He is another Conservative Prime Minister for whom unemployment is a price worth paying. Because he is failing on unemployment and growth, he is failing on borrowing. He told the CBI conference last year that, no ifs or buts, by 2015
“we will have balanced the books.”
Will he now admit that on the central test he set himself, he has failed?
The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman complains about the level of borrowing, but his answer is to borrow even more. That is the utter illiteracy. Let me tell him what we are doing. Because we have a plan to meet the mandate and to meet the test set out by the Chancellor in his emergency Budget, we have some of the lowest interest rates in Europe. That is right; for every percentage point they went up under Labour, that would be another £1,000 on a family mortgage, another £7 billion out of business and another £21 billion on our national debt. That is what we would get under Labour and that is why it is this Government who will take the country through this storm.
Edward Miliband
The Prime Minister is borrowing an extra £158 billion to pay for his economic failure. The truth is that his plan has failed. He refuses to change course and he is making working families pay the price. At the very least, we now know that he will never, ever be able to say again, “We’re all in this together.”
The Prime Minister
The leader of the Labour party has taken sides today: he is on the side of the trade union leader who wants strikes and not negotiations and he is on the side of people who want to disrupt our schools, disrupt our borders and disrupt our country. And when it comes to borrowing, he cannot even bring himself to welcome the fact that there are low interest rates.
Let me tell him this. The shadow Chancellor—[Interruption.] Mr Speaker, they are all shouting in unison—[Interruption.] Or should that have been they are all shouting on behalf of Unison? I am not quite clear. Let me remind the House of what the shadow Chancellor said about low interest rates. He said that long-term interest rates are
“the simplest measure of monetary and fiscal policy credibility”.
That is what he said, and that is what this Government are delivering.
We are being tested by these difficult economic times. We will meet that test by getting on top of our debt and getting on top of our deficit. The Leader of the Opposition is being tested too, and he is showing that he is weak, left-wing and irresponsible.
Mr Speaker
Order. I assume that Government Back Benchers have some interest in listening to Jo Swinson.
Jo Swinson
Q2. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to associate myself with the words of condolence from the Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition.Ten years on from the military intervention, more than 3 million girls in Afghanistan are now in school. With the Bonn conference on Monday, will the Prime Minister send a clear message that the rights of those girls should not be traded away in a false choice between women’s rights and security? The evidence shows that women’s involvement in post-conflict resolution is essential for stability.
The Prime Minister
First of all, may I wish my hon. Friend and everyone in Scotland or who is Scottish a very happy St Andrew’s day? She is absolutely right to talk about women’s rights in Afghanistan. All too often, we talk about security without talking about some of the things that that security is making possible. It is the case that whereas in 2001 there were fewer than 1 million children in school in Afghanistan, none of them girls, today there are 6 million children regularly in school, 2 million of whom are girls. All those of us who have been to Afghanistan and met women MPs and other leaders in that country who want to stand up for women’s rights know what an incredible job those people are doing, and we are on their side.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
Q13. According to the Office for Budget Responsibility, half a million more people will be on the dole in 2013 than previously thought. That is a terrible human cost, but how much more will be lost in tax and paid out in benefits as a result of his Chancellor’s economic failure?
The Prime Minister
What the OBR shows is that by 2015 we are going to have half a million more people in jobs, fewer people on the claimant count and a lower unemployment rate. But there is a serious point here, because the figures do show a sharp decline in public sector employment. That is shown by the figures. There is a much bigger increase in private sector employment.
What I would say to the Opposition—in fact, to everyone in the House—is that if we want to reduce the amount of unemployment from the public sector, we have to reform welfare, which they oppose, we have to freeze public sector pay, which they oppose, and we have to reform public sector pensions, where they are on the side of the irresponsible trade union leaders.
Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)
Q3. Is the Prime Minister aware that in the last financial year, taxpayers paid more than £113 million to trade unions by way of paid staff time and direct grants? In the light of today’s disruption to hospitals and schools, is it not time to review that situation?
The Prime Minister
I think it is time. I do not think full-time trade unionists working in the public sector on trade union business rather than serving the public is right, and we will put that to an end. That is absolutely the case, and the evidence today makes that case even stronger.
Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)
Q4. Why are the Government freezing working tax credit, which helps the lowest paid workers, including those whose wages are too low for them even to pay tax, to make work pay?
The Prime Minister
As the hon. Lady knows, what we are doing with tax credits is that there will be a £255 increase this year, which is the largest ever increase in child tax credit, and there will be a further £135 increase next year—a 5.2% increase. I think that is the right increase in child tax credit. Helping those families, genuinely helping people to get out and stay out of poverty, helping on nursery education and helping to get low paid people out of tax is even more valuable.
Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)
As the United Kingdom’s borders are being kept open today by patriotic volunteers, will the Prime Minister consider imitating the robust action of the late US President Ronald Reagan in relation to recalcitrant air traffic controllers?
The Prime Minister
I thank all those people, including a number from No. 10 Downing street, who are helping to keep our borders open and to make sure that Heathrow and Gatwick are working properly. Let me report to the House that the evidence so far suggests that about 40% of schools are open; less than a third of the civil service is striking; on our borders, the early signs are that the contingency measures are minimising the impact; we have full cover in terms of ambulance services; and only 18 out of 900 jobcentres have closed. Despite the disappointment of the Labour party, which supports irresponsible and damaging strikes, it looks like something of a damp squib.
Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op)
Q5. May I ask the Prime Minister if he came into politics to sack three quarters of a million civil servants and public sector workers, most of whom are women and most of whom have families?
The Prime Minister
I came into politics to try to improve the welfare of people in our country. The fact is that, at the end of this public sector pension reform, those people working in the public sector will have far better pensions than most people in the private sector, who are contributing that money to them. [Interruption.] I know the Leader of the Opposition and the shadow Chancellor are paid to ask questions; they do not have to wave as well. [Interruption.] If they give the money back to the unions, I will calm down.
Chris Kelly (Dudley South) (Con)
Will my right hon. Friend join me in condemning the outrageous attack on our embassy in Tehran yesterday and in paying tribute to our diplomatic staff serving in such difficult environments with such distinction?
The Prime Minister
I certainly join my hon. Friend in doing that, and I am sure the whole House will join me in praising the incredible devotion of our staff in the foreign and diplomatic service, who often face great dangers, as they did yesterday in Tehran. I chaired a meeting of Cobra yesterday and another one this morning and spoke to our ambassador about the safety of his staff. That should be our No. 1 concern—their safety, their security and making sure those are maintained. After that, we will consider taking some very tough action in response to that completely appalling and disgraceful behaviour by the Iranians.
Mr Graham Allen (Nottingham North) (Lab)
Q6. What plans he has to change the machinery of Government to facilitate the implementation of early intervention policies; and if he will make a statement.
The Prime Minister
I lead a Committee of Cabinet Ministers that looks specifically at family issues, including the importance of early intervention, which is central to what the Government are trying to achieve. We believe that if we change the life chances of the least well off, we have a much better chance of genuinely lifting young people out of poverty and keeping them out of poverty. I take a close interest—as do my right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Education and the Chancellor of the Exchequer—in the hon. Gentleman’s work, and in the real difference that he has made in prioritising early intervention in our country.
Mr Allen
I thank all three party leaders for their consistent support for early intervention and their generous welcome for my two reports. May I ask the Prime Minister to make early intervention in the lives of babies, children and young people a theme for all Departments in the next comprehensive spending review, so that not only will all children be able to make the best of their life chances, but Government and the taxpayer will be able to reduce the massive costs of failure—including educational underachievement, 120,000 dysfunctional families, summers of discontent, and many, many lifetimes wasted on benefits?
The Prime Minister
That is a very sensible suggestion. I think that we can look at it in the context of the next spending round, but I do not even want to wait for the next spending round. That is why the family Committee that I lead, and of which the Deputy Prime Minister is a member, is considering how we can make effective action such as intervention in the lives of the 120,000 neediest and most broken families. Government—all the different Departments—spend a huge amount of money on those families, but we are not satisfied that that money has been spent on actually intervening in the lives of those families, and trying to turn them around in order to solve their very real problems. We have a programme for doing that now, but I hope that the hon. Gentleman will continue with his very positive work.
Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con)
Q7. The Prime Minister will be aware that there remain 16 British overseas territories around the world where the Union flag still flies proudly. Will he pledge that Her Majesty’s Government will protect, defend and cherish the loyal subjects of all those territories?
The Prime Minister
I can happily give my hon. Friend that guarantee. Let me add that the overseas territories will remain British for as long as the people of those territories want to maintain their special relationship with us, and that the Union flag will continue to fly over the Governors’ residences. We are increasing our assistance to overseas territories—my hon. Friend will be familiar with what we are doing in St Helena with the airport—and, of course, next year is the anniversary of the liberation of the Falkland Islands, which will be a moment for genuine celebration in all overseas territories.
Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)
Q8. My constituent Jackie contacted me to ask how she is to manage with a 3% tax on her pension, no pay increase until 2013, and rocketing fuel and food bills. How is she to feed her family? Why is the Prime Minister making people like Jackie pay for his Government’s failure?
The Prime Minister
The fact is, I am afraid, that the whole country is having to pay for the failure of the last Government to get on top of debt and deficit, but what I would say to the hon. Lady’s constituent is that we are trying to help. That is why we are freezing council tax, cutting petrol tax, taking 1.1 million of the poorest people out of tax altogether, and increasing child tax credit in the way that I described earlier. We will continue to take all those steps, but I would say to the hon. Lady’s constituent—as I would say to all others—that the most dangerous thing that we could do now is lose control of our debts and see interest rates go up. When this Government came to power, our interest rates were at the same level as Italy’s. Today, Italy’s interest rates are 5% higher. If ours were at the same level, we would see higher mortgage costs and businesses going bust, and we would have a real problem in our country. That, however, is the policy of the Labour party.
Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
Q9. What message has the Prime Minister today for the thousands of people who run and work in small businesses in my constituency, who work tremendously hard to keep those businesses and the local economy going, and who, in some cases, can barely afford to make provision for their own pensions?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Lady is entirely right. This Government are squarely on the side of people who work hard, play by the rules, and want to do the right things for their families. Today I would say to all those people “Thank you for what you do to contribute to public sector pensions that are far more generous than anything that you are able to afford. For our part, we promise to ensure that public sector pensions remain strong but are affordable.” What is so notable about today is that the Labour party has taken the side of trade union leaders who want to disrupt our country.
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
Q10. With taxpayers set to pay up to £100 million to BAE Systems to make workers redundant, is the Prime Minister aware that £100 million would pay for five new Hawk planes to be built at Brough for our Red Arrows? Is that not a better use of £100 million?
The Prime Minister
I strongly support British Aerospace and all that it does. It is an extraordinarily strong British company. It has the full backing of the British Government and an enormous order book from us in terms of the strategic defence review. It also has massive backing from us in selling Hawk aircraft, Typhoons and Eurofighters all over the world to countries that need them. Clearly at Brough there have been issues and difficulties. That is why we have put in an enterprise zone, and we will do everything we can to help those people and help that company.
Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)
Q11. Does the Prime Minister share my belief, and until recently the belief of the Leader of the Opposition, that now is not the time to strike, before negotiations have been completed?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend makes a very good point. Just in case anyone did not get it the first time, let me say it again:
“These strikes are wrong at a time when negotiations are…going on”.
Negotiations are going on, so the Leader of the Opposition should think the strikes are wrong. He does not think that they are wrong, because he is in the pocket of the trade union leaders.
Mr Frank Roy (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
In every city and village in the country, home helps, carers, nurses and teachers are on strike for the very first time in their lives. These hard-working people—
Mr Roy
Well, we hear laughter from the Government Benches, but this is no laughing matter to hard-working families. Are these hard-working people out-of-touch left-wing trade union militants, as demonised by the two parties on the Government Benches, or are they men and women who have said to the Government, “Enough is enough”?
The Prime Minister
I know that people feel strongly about this, but we have a responsibility to deliver an affordable public sector pension system. We have rejected the idea of levelling down public sector pensions. What we will deliver on public sector pensions is a generous and fair offer that will give public sector pensioners, unlike others in our country, a defined benefit system. That is why Lord Hutton says that this is an incredibly generous offer. What a pity it is that the Labour party has left reality and will not back that view.
Andrew Bingham (High Peak) (Con)
Q12. The Prime Minister will know that I recently held a small businesses event in my constituency, and many of the businesses that attended complained bitterly about the red tape and bureaucracy that they have to jump through to deal with public bodies. What message can he send to these businesses, as we look to them to help rebuild the economy, about getting rid of some of this obstructive bureaucratic nonsense?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise this subject. It is why we have introduced the red tape challenge, so that all these rules are published on line and businesses and individuals can tell us which ones can be scrapped without harming public safety. At the same time, we have the one-in, one-out rule so that Ministers cannot introduce a new regulation until they have scrapped an existing one. This Government are determined to scrap unnecessary regulation and to help small businesses to employ more people in our country.
Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co-op)
At the last spending review, the Prime Minister said that the £110 rise in child tax credits would have an impact on child poverty. Now that he has taken away that rise and is freezing working tax credit, can he say how many more children will be in poverty in the coming year?
The Prime Minister
What we are doing in terms of child tax credit is that it is going to be £390 higher than at the time of the last election. That is a £255 increase this year, which is the largest ever increase in child tax credit. We are adding a further £135 next year—an increase of 5.2%. That is what is happening on child tax credit. Let me make this additional point. If the pension is increased, we see child poverty figures go up, under the definition used by the Labour party. I think that it is right that we increase the pension; I do not think that we harm the life chances of children by giving pensioners what we have given, which is a record cash increase in pensions next year.
Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con)
Q14. May I ask the Prime Minister to ensure that this House remains a free and democratic institution, accountable only to voters? Does he share my indignation that some Members had to ask permission from the GMB to be here today? [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. There is a matter of basic courtesy here. The question from the hon. Lady should be heard. I think that she has completed her question, but it really is a lesson for the future. When questions are being asked, they should be heard with courtesy, and when the answers are given, whatever Members think of them, they should be heard with courtesy.
The Prime Minister
It is genuinely baffling to people that somebody who said that they would not back strike action while negotiations were under way has come to the House today to speak on behalf of trade union leaders. I want to say that it is a flashback to Neil Kinnock, but even Kinnock was not as bad as that.
Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)
Does the Prime Minister think it fair that the Chancellor yesterday decided to take just £300 million extra from the banks, and £1.3 billion from working families in this country? Is that a fair distribution?
The Prime Minister
What the Chancellor announced yesterday was that we will take £2.5 billion off the banks, not through a one-off bonus tax one year, but every year. It is this Government who are properly putting a tax on the banks, whereas the Labour party, year after year, gave knighthoods to Fred Goodwin, did not regulate the banks or tax them properly, and gave us the biggest boom and the biggest bust, from which we are having to recover.
Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)
Q15. While I welcome the reduction in corporation tax, which will encourage the businesses affected to expand, 90% of the businesses in my constituency are not incorporated and will not benefit from the tax reduction. Will the Prime Minister ensure that in the spring Budget those businesses are given similar tax incentives to ensure that they grow to their full potential, in the economy and the communities they serve?
The Prime Minister
May I again praise the hon. Gentleman for the magnificent specimen lurking underneath his nose? We will not wait until the Budget to help those small businesses: we have already extended the rate relief freeze for small businesses, and the national loan guarantee scheme, which will help small businesses to access credit, will be up and running soon.
Mr Speaker
Order. We now come to the statement from the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General. I appeal to right hon. and hon. Members leaving the Chamber to do so quickly and quietly, so that the Minister can deliver his statement and the House can listen to and hear it.