Points of Order
Stephen Flynn Excerpts(1 month ago)
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Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
In the wee hours of 9 June 2017, I watched on as the most talented, formidable and consequential politician of his generation—a man who had represented the people of Banff and Buchan, Aberdeenshire East and Gordon, a man who had served for two terms as the First Minister of Scotland—lost his parliamentary seat for the first time in 30 years. It is a moment I will never forget, not because of the nature of his defeat but for what happened next, because within just a few moments, Alex Salmond took to the podium and gave a speech that, despite all the despair that those of us in the SNP felt in the room that night, made us feel 10 ft tall. He gave us back the hope that things would get better, and would get better quickly.
Rabbie Burns once wrote:
“The heart ay’s the part ay
That makes us right or wrang.”
Alex gave all of us in the SNP the belief that what we felt in our hearts was worth fighting for—the belief that we could one day become an independent nation. Alex Salmond took us so very close to making that belief a reality.
At this time of profound shock and sorrow, I send my heartfelt personal condolences to Alex’s wife Moira, his wider family, his friends and his legion of fans across the nationalist movement and within the Alba party itself. It is of great personal sorrow to me that Alex Salmond will not live to see Scotland become an independent nation. The challenge for all of us now in the nationalist movement is to make sure that we put good his legacy and deliver the future he so badly fought for throughout his distinguished parliamentary career.
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Ian Murray)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I know that colleagues from across the House will join me today in expressing our shock and sadness at the sudden passing of the right honourable Alex Salmond. He was a Member of this House for 25 years and of the Scottish Parliament for 11 years, and he was of course First Minister of Scotland for seven years. His impact wherever he served was profound.
My thoughts and sympathies are first and foremost with his family and friends and especially his wife Moira, who has already been mentioned. Members might not be aware that the Scotland Office brought Moira and Alex together; they met first as colleagues in that Department before marrying in 1981. My thoughts are also with those whose relationships with him had broken down in recent years and those who are finding this time difficult as they deal with a range of emotions.
It is no secret that some of his happiest periods as a politician were spent in this place, where he made alliances that may to some have seemed surprising. My thoughts today are particularly with the right hon. Member for Goole and Pocklington (Sir David Davis), who I know has lost a close friend, and with Alex’s SNP colleagues.
In the short period during which our careers in this place overlapped, I was always impressed with Alex’s formidable oratory and debating style. No Member from any part of this House was given an easy ride. He sat on the third Bench—where the leader of the SNP, the right hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn) is today—during the passage of the Scotland Act 2016, chuntering and bantering in my ear every time I stood at the Opposition Dispatch Box. His love of lively discussion extended beyond this Chamber, and I was always keen to keep the topic on our shared passion for Heart of Midlothian football club, rather than constitutional matters.
It is impossible to overstate the impact that Alex had on Scotland and our politics. After half a century of involvement, from student activist to First Minister, whether you agreed or disagreed with his political objectives, there is no denying the rigour and commitment with which he pursued his goals. That commitment saw Alex lead the Scottish National party for a total of 20 years, taking it from a small political movement to the party of government in Scotland. In doing so, he secured a referendum on Scottish independence in 2014, an achievement that would surely have been scarcely believable for a student activist who joined the SNP in the early 1970s and perhaps even for the Alex Salmond who first led the party in the early 1990s.
As someone firmly on the opposite side of that debate, I know that the result of the referendum was a source of huge disappointment to Alex. It was testament to his conviction in the cause that he continued to campaign for Scottish independence with the same passion in Parliament, in the SNP, in the Alba party and in communities across Scotland throughout the past decade. He has left an indelible mark on Scottish politics and public life. I know that many in the independence movement and beyond will miss him. I once again send the deepest sympathies on behalf of the UK Government to all his family and friends at this difficult time.
Oral Answers to Questions
Stephen Flynn Excerpts(6 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
On Monday, the Armed Forces Minister could neither confirm nor deny that UK troops may soon be deployed on the ground in the middle east. The public watching will be hoping that Members of this House do not have a short memory when it comes to the potential deployment and involvement of our military in the middle east. Can I ask the Prime Minister to provide some much-needed clarity: is he giving active consideration to the deployment of UK forces in the middle east—yes or no?
The Prime Minister
Mr Speaker, you would not expect me to get into any operational planning details, but what I will say is that we are absolutely committed to supporting international effort to get more humanitarian aid into Gaza, which I think the whole House would support, by land, sea and air. We have tripled our aid commitment, and right now—together with the US, Cyprus and other partners—we are setting up a new temporary pier off the coast of Gaza to get aid in as securely and quickly as possible.
Stephen Flynn
Let us all be in no doubt: aid is required in Gaza, and it is required because, when people are not being bombed, they are starving to death. The solution to that is a ceasefire and the opening of safe ground aid routes, not the involvement on the ground of UK military personnel. These are dramatic and potentially dangerous developments, so will the Prime Minister confirm to the House today that, before he makes a decision, all Members will be afforded a vote?
The Prime Minister
I am not going to apologise for our armed forces playing a leading role in supporting international effort to get more aid in. Indeed, we are sending Royal Navy support ship RFA Cardigan Bay to the region to support that effort. The right hon. Gentleman talks about this conflict; the fastest way to end it is to ensure that we have a hostage deal that gets hostages out and aid in, and for there to be a sustainable pause in the fighting. It seems clear that there now is a workable offer on the table, so I hope he joins me in encouraging all parties, including Hamas, to accept that deal so we can move towards a sustainable solution.
Oral Answers to Questions
Stephen Flynn Excerpts(8 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
Much to my surprise, this morning it has been widely reported that the Conservative party in Scotland is absolutely furious that Westminster is about to tax Scotland’s natural resources in order to pay for a tax cut in England. Is the Prime Minister in danger of turning his colleagues into nationalists?
The Prime Minister
Obviously, I would not comment on the Budget, but I will say that when I was in Scotland last week it was crystal clear that there has only ever been one party consistently standing up for the North sea energy industry, and it is the Scottish Conservatives.
Stephen Flynn
The Prime Minister knows that not to be the case. But there is a serious point to be made here: the Conservative party wants to use Scotland’s natural resources to pay for tax cuts in England, and the Labour party wants to use Scotland’s natural resources to pay for nuclear power stations in England—the cost of that is up to 100,000 jobs. Scotland’s wealth, resources and jobs are all a game to Westminster. With the Tories on just 15% in the polls in Scotland now, will the Prime Minister do us all a favour and call a general election?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman claims to be supportive of the North sea energy industry, but why has he opposed all the measures that we have taken to protect those jobs in Scotland over the past couple of years? He talks about tax in Scotland and England. I gently point out to him that, thanks to the actions of the Chancellor and this UK Government, everyone in Scotland has received a significant tax cut from January this year. In contrast to the Chancellor’s last Budget, the SNP’s budget put taxes up for working Scots. Scotland is now the high-tax capital of the UK, but this Conservative Government are going to keep cutting taxes for hard-working Scots.
Oral Answers to Questions
Stephen Flynn Excerpts(11 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
In good news for kids in Aberdeen this morning, it was snowing; when they looked out of the kitchen window, they would have been filled with delight. But many of their parents who looked out of the kitchen window this morning would have been filled with dread—dread from knowing that they simply cannot afford to pay their energy bills. In that context, does the Prime Minister regret offering no financial mechanism whatever for families this winter?
The Prime Minister
It is simply not right to say that there is not support for families this winter—there has been considerable support this year for energy bills. This winter, pensioner households, for example, will receive up to £300 alongside their winter fuel payment. They are some of the most vulnerable households, and it is right that they get that support at a difficult time.
Stephen Flynn
I appreciate that it is difficult for the Prime Minister to empathise when he quite clearly cannot understand, but to be clear to him and, indeed, the whole House: this is not a matter of energy production. Scotland produces six times more gas than we consume and around two thirds of our electricity already comes from renewable resources. This is a consequence of decades of failed energy policy here in Westminster. Those of us on the Scottish National party Benches believe that Scotland’s energy wealth and energy resource should benefit the people of Scotland. Why doesn’t he?
The Prime Minister
The entire energy grid infrastructure in this country is integrated, which brings benefits to people in every part of our United Kingdom. When it comes to supporting people with energy bills, earlier this year we increased benefits to the highest rate on record. It is why we provided cost of living payments worth £900 on top of regular support. It was right not to wait until the last moment to give people that support; we gave it to them earlier this year so that they would have the security they need going into winter—as I said, on top of the money for pensioners. When there are cold snaps, we have cold weather payments that kick in and the warm home discount, which provides an extra £150 to the most vulnerable households. All that is the most considerable action taken by any Government to help people with their energy bills.
Oral Answers to Questions
Stephen Flynn Excerpts(1 year, 2 months ago)
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Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
As someone who spends more money heating their swimming pool than the total value of the UK state pension, the Prime Minister—I think it is safe to say—might not be as invested in this topic as some others, but let us afford him the opportunity to clear up any confusion. Will he commit his party, the Conservative party, to maintaining the state pension triple lock beyond the next general election—yes or no?
The Prime Minister
This is the party that introduced the triple lock. This is the party that has delivered a £3,000 increase in the state pension since 2010. It is also the party that has ensured that there are 200,000 fewer pensioners living in poverty today and that this winter pensioners will get an extra £300 alongside their winter fuel payment to support them through the challenging times with inflation. Our track record is clear. There is one party in this House that has always stood up for our pensioners and that is the Conservative party.
Stephen Flynn
I do not think we heard a yes there, Mr Speaker. You will imagine my shock—my utter surprise—that we appear to have consensus once again between the Conservative party and the Labour party on this most important of issues, despite the promises that were made to the people of Scotland in 2014 and despite clear statements from the likes of Gordon Brown that the only way to protect pensions was to remain within the UK. How hollow those words are now. Who does the Prime Minister think will scrap the state pension triple lock first, his Government or the Labour party’s Government?
The Prime Minister
Thanks to the actions of this Government, pensioners in Scotland are receiving record increases in their state pension—£870 this year—and extra support with the cost of living this winter. This is the Government who introduced and remain committed to the triple lock, but the hon. Gentleman raises a good point. Pensioners in Scotland should know that the reason they can rely on the state pension, not just today but for years to come, is the strength of our Union and the strength of our United Kingdom Government.
Cost of Living and Brexit
Stephen Flynn Excerpts(1 year, 5 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (John Lamont)
I am grateful to have the opportunity to speak in the debate this afternoon. Cost of living increases are impacting households and businesses right across the country. It is right that this Parliament should be concerned about how we mitigate those impacts to ensure that the people of Scotland thrive. However, a debate that starts from the unfounded position that the UK’s exit from the European Union is to blame for any and all woes is not the best use of this House’s time. Putin’s illegal invasion of Ukraine coupled with the economic aftershocks of covid have caused huge disruptions to the global economy. No country is immune from that. However, we are benefiting from the swift action taken by this United Kingdom Government to mitigate the worst of those impacts. [Interruption.] I will make some progress if I may.
Announcements made at the spring Budget 2023—[Interruption.] Madam Deputy Speaker, this is a serious subject, but SNP Members laugh and shout down the Government’s representative as we try to respond to some of the points that they have made.
John Lamont
I will make some progress. Rather than shouting and laughing, I encourage SNP Members to listen to the points I am making. We are benefiting from the swift action that this United Kingdom Government are taking to mitigate the worst of these impacts. Announcements made at the spring Budget 2023 bring the UK Government’s total cost of living support to £94 billion over the current and next financial year, averaging at more than £3,300 per UK household. Those interventions will not only help ease some of the pressures on those most in need, but stimulate the economy and contribute to our long-term recovery from these unprecedented global challenges that we have faced in the past few years.
As has been said in the House previously, Government Members would warmly welcome a serious debate on ways to build on those foundations and to improve Scotland’s economy, because Scotland’s economic growth has lagged behind that of the UK during the SNP’s time in Holyrood.
Oral Answers to Questions
Stephen Flynn Excerpts(1 year, 8 months ago)
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Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
Wholesale gas prices have fallen by 75% since their peak, yet in just a matter of weeks the British Government—the Westminster Government—intend to increase energy bills by a further £500. What would motivate a Prime Minister to do such a thing?
The Prime Minister
What we are doing is providing tens of billions of pounds of support for people with their energy bills, particularly the most vulnerable. What we are also doing—opposed by the SNP—is investing in producing more home-grown gas here in the UK and the North sea. I notice that one of the hon. Gentleman’s own Members of Parliament said this week that if the SNP were a pizza company, its products would be slow, wrong and costly. I say to him that it is time to focus on the issues that matter to the people of Scotland, and producing more energy is absolutely one of them.
Stephen Flynn
I am not sure that implying that energy bills do not matter to the people of Scotland is a winning strategy for this Prime Minister. Let us get real: the fact that wholesale gas prices have fallen by 75% means a windfall to the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of around £15 billion, so what they are saying is that they intend to raid the pockets of ordinary Scots while lining the pockets of Westminster. It is time to set aside any notion of an energy price increase, but instead to protect households and perhaps to reduce bills by £500. Does the Prime Minister not agree?
The Prime Minister
We are saving households across the United Kingdom, including in Scotland, £900 on their energy bills as a result of our energy bills guarantee. In the coming years, we will spend £12 billion protecting particularly the most vulnerable families and pensioners across the United Kingdom. But the best way to reduce people’s bills is to halve inflation, as we have promised to do, and to produce more home-grown energy here in the United Kingdom. That is something that this Government support; maybe the hon. Gentleman could confirm whether the SNP supports it.
Points of Order
Stephen Flynn Excerpts(1 year, 10 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
We laid the order at 12.34 pm, with the statement of reasons. The House authorities have to clear it before they publish it, and they will not do that until 5 pm. However, Mr Speaker has given me dispensation to publish the statement of reasons on the gov.uk website. We are doing that now. It is also being emailed to the hon. Members for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray), for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine) and for Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn).
Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. We have just questioned the Secretary of State for more than an hour and he repeatedly mentioned the statement of reasons, which we have not yet seen. I am now told that I am going receive the statement of reasons. I think it would be wise for the House to be suspended so that we can all consider those reasons in full prior to the debate, because they will be of intrinsic value to us all.
Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I remain to be convinced whether the Secretary of State understands the effect of a gender recognition certificate, but surely it is now apparent that he does not understand the concept of parliamentary accountability. For as long as I have been in this House, if the House were to be made aware of a Government document or publication of any sort, it would be placed in the House of Commons Library. It was not sent by email to individual named members. Surely all Members of this United Kingdom Parliament have an interest in knowing the Government position. There is no good reason for this unprecedented departure from previous processes.
Mr Speaker
In an ideal world, yes, it would be easier. The statement of reasons is now live, and it should have been emailed to certain Members to ensure that they can see it. [Interruption.] Do not shake your head just yet—please check; that would be helpful. We could argue that the Secretary of State has set it out for over an hour and answered the questions. I want to ensure that this debate goes ahead. We could have put it off until tomorrow. Quite rightly, Members wanted it today, which is important, so I am going to go ahead. It is not the best way to start the debate, but I ask Members to check, because I am assured that the document is available online for Members to see.
Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have many skills at my disposal, but the ability to speak while also looking at the Government’s statement of reasons is certainly not one of them. It is entirely unfair for me as an elected Member of this House to partake in a debate—which you have kindly granted, and I appreciate that—without being in full possession of the facts. That is not my fault. That is the fault of the Secretary of State for Scotland, who is not just undermining Scotland’s devolution; he is undermining this place, and that is of serious consequence to you, I imagine.
Mr Speaker
This is not the end; this is the beginning. There will be lots of opportunities for this to further be discussed. I want to make sure that this debate starts, and it is important that you lay out the facts. Hopefully during this time, you will have been starting to read the statement of reasons. I want to deal with the point of order from Amy Callaghan, who has quite rightly been waiting. I wanted to separate the two issues, because I believe it is an important point.
Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Section 35 Power
Stephen Flynn Excerpts(1 year, 10 months ago)
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Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered the Government’s decision to use section 35 of the Scotland Act with regard to the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill.
Here we have it, eventually: the statement of reasons, which I am expected to read while also speaking. I have to admit that there is a real temptation for me to stand here and read every single word of it into the record right now. [Interruption.] They want me to! They probably should not goad me to; I will. On a more serious note—[Interruption.] Calm down. On a more serious note, I want to start with an apology to those people—and this should apply to everyone, irrespective of their views on the GRR—who have hopes and aspirations for the future and who have fought so hard for a piece of legislation for so long and now see their hope being taken away from them. It is being taken away from them by a Government whom they did not vote for and whom we have not voted for since 1955.
That goes to the heart of the issue, which is about democracy on these islands and what democracy looks like in the United Kingdom. In Scotland’s democratically elected Parliament in Holyrood, legislation has been passed that relates directly—directly—to a devolved competency. The GRR Bill is the most-consulted-on legislation in the history of the Scottish Parliament. It received support from not just the Scottish National party, but the Labour party in Scotland; Conservative party members in Scotland, including the predecessor of the hon. Member for Moray (Douglas Ross), as I understand it; the Liberal Democrats in Scotland; and the Greens in Scotland.
Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Stephen Flynn
I will give way in a moment.
In total, the Bill received support from nearly two thirds of Scotland’s democratically elected Parliament in Holyrood. It is an outrage that the United Kingdom Government are seeking to overturn the mandate and the legislation put down by our Scottish Parliament.
Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
I will give my hon. Friend a chance to look at the first page of the reasons for this appalling decision. My hon. Friend the Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford) spoke earlier about the World Health Organisation and the other European and Commonwealth nations that already have such legislation, and how Scotland would be brought into line with them. The statement talks about
“removing a number of measures which the UK government regards as important safeguards”,
which are the very measures—[Interruption.] If hon. Members pipe down and listen, they might learn something. Those measures, which include the medicalisation of the process and breaches of human rights, such as a trans person having to present themselves to a panel to justify their existence, are the very things that we sought to remove because they so affected the rights of trans people.
Stephen Flynn
I thank my hon. Friend for her worthwhile contribution, which I did not hear in its entirety because of the rabid gammon on the Conservative Benches. None the less, it was an incredibly important point that we should reflect on.
Some of the questions from Conservative Back Benchers to the Secretary of State during the statement were about re-running the debate that has already happened in Holyrood. Numerous Conservative Members suggested that they oppose the GRR Bill for different reasons, but those reasons have already been exhausted in Scotland’s democratically elected Parliament. If Conservative Members have issues with what the Scottish Parliament has put forward, perhaps they should jump on a train to Scotland, get themselves elected to the Scottish Parliament and try to change the legislation there, rather than using this place to overturn Scotland’s democratically elected Parliament.
Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)
My hon. Friend rightly said that the GRR Bill passed with cross-party support in Holyrood, including from some Conservative MSPs. One of those was Jamie Greene, the Conservative party’s spokesperson for justice—given his role, he showed good courage in voting for it. Is it not the case that his leader, the hon. Member for Moray (Douglas Ross), has just sold him down the river?
Stephen Flynn
I entirely agree; perhaps the hon. Member for Moray would like to address that.
Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)
The hon. Gentleman is talking about people who supported and opposed the Bill. Can he confirm that a Scottish Government Justice Minister resigned to oppose the Bill; a former Scottish Government SNP Cabinet Secretary voted against it; and in total, nine SNP MSPs felt that the legislation was deeply flawed and wrong, and voted against it?
Stephen Flynn
The hon. Member, although he sits in this Chamber, already sits in Holyrood as well. He will be familiar with the fact that the overwhelming majority of parliamentarians elected to Holyrood voted in favour of the legislation. I appreciate that he lost that debate in Holyrood, but he should not support this Government trying to overturn the decision. I would be interested to hear about the conversations that he has had with his elected colleagues in Holyrood about the decision.
Douglas Ross
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way a second time. Of course, I did have conversations, because I was the only party leader in Scotland to make this a free vote and allow my party Members to come to a conclusion, as Jamie Greene did. Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP refused to do that, which is why she lost Government Ministers as a result.
Stephen Flynn
If we are going to talk about losing, the hon. Gentleman lost the debate in Scotland. I repeat once again that it is not democratic to try to overturn that legislation here in this place.
Stephen Flynn
I will not. I want to make a little progress.
It has been inferred by some Conservative Members that GRR is in some way in conflict with the Equality Act 2010. Indeed, I am sure that, in this tome before me, that is the case, yet there are also senior Members on those Benches who have been vocal about the fact that it does not interfere with or overturn the Equality Act in any way, shape or form, so which one is it?
Mhairi Black (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
Does my hon. Friend agree with me in finding it ridiculous that Conservative Members keep claiming they want to protect women and children’s rights given the fact that, just last night, the Government undermined workers’ rights, they want to get rid of the Human Rights Act, they introduced the rape clause and they want to remove us from the European Court of Human Rights. Is it not the case that if we want to defend rights, we get them as far away from this lot as possible?
Stephen Flynn
Absolutely. My hon. Friend has made an incredibly important point about the Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Bill. The UK Government are seeking to overturn and ignore Scotland’s democratically elected politicians not just in relation to the GRR, but, without making any grand assumptions, on the right to strike, because I can say with wholehearted confidence that an overwhelming majority of parliamentarians in Holyrood are opposed to that Bill, but they will be ignored on that too.
Tomorrow, a Bill will come before the House on the 4,000 pieces of EU legislation that the UK Government want to throw into the wind. It is Bill that puts our food standards at risk, that puts workers’ rights at risk and that puts overwhelming power in the hands of Tory Ministers—unelected in Scotland, of course—to do as they please. The Scottish Parliament has been clear once again that it opposes that, yet that too will be ignored: Scotland’s democracy ignored and ignored.
Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)
My hon. Friend is making a powerful point about what is, at its core, an attack on the rights of Scottish people and the Scottish Parliament. His comments about attacks on the Scottish Parliament have been echoed by the Welsh Labour First Minister, Mark Drakeford, who has called the section 35 interference a “dangerous move”. Is there not a deafness, not only on the Government Benches but on the Labour Benches, about how dangerous such moves are for democracy across the nations of the UK?
Stephen Flynn
Absolutely. It appears that Mark Drakeford has more of a backbone than the vast majority of those in the parliamentary Labour party put together, and they could do well to learn from his views in that respect.
Democracy matters, and this UK Government are consistently seeking to ignore Scotland’s democracy. I mentioned the right to strike and the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill, but it is also true of Brexit as a whole in that 72% of Scots want to rejoin the European Union, yet the UK Government and indeed the Labour party have absolutely no interest in that position whatsoever.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
I know my hon. Friend has not had an opportunity to look at the statement of reasons, some 57 paragraphs of which have just been served up to us. I have had a chance to have a quick look at it, and maybe my hon. Friend should not bother doing so in any great degree detail because it is specious, hypothetical and poorly informed. One example is that, on equal pay, the Government seem to believe that a trans man would take advantage of the opportunity to be paid less. That is the type of rubbish included in this. What does he think of that?
Stephen Flynn
I have obviously not had the opportunity to look at it, but if that is the case it is a complete and utter embarrassment. It shows that, just as the Secretary of State was unprepared today on this matter, so too are his Government on the arguments they are putting forward. I am a little bit embarrassed for them in that regard.
Hannah Bardell
My hon. Friend is incredibly generous in giving way. Regarding what the Government are trying to take out of the legislation and that they have concerns with, point 4 is particularly worrying. It states:
“Taken together, these amendments remove any requirement for third party verification or evidence from the process.”
If I am not wrong, when I came out I did not have to seek verification from anybody to be a lesbian. I do not understand why we are treating trans people as if they are applying for some kind of arbitrary, inanimate thing. This is about their identity. It is about their lives and livelihoods, and we should treat them with the dignity and respect they deserve.
Stephen Flynn
You will be unsurprised to know, Mr Speaker, that I very much agree in that regard.
Stephen Flynn
No.
Let me return to the points I was making about democracy, on the right to strike, EU legislation, Brexit, but also, importantly, on Scotland’s right to choose. As we found towards the end of last year—if the Father of the House wishes to awaken from his slumber—[Interruption.] No, Mr Speaker, he does not appear to awaken from his slumber. It is very distracting to see that in front of you in a democratically elected Parliament.
If we are to reflect on democracy, last year Scotland was denied its right to choose by this UK Government. The Supreme Court was clear that we do not have power under the constitutional settlement to have a second independence referendum, irrespective of the views of the people of Scotland. Yet the only answer that the UK Government can give to any question in relation to that is, “No. You cannot have your say.” No matter which way we turn or what the issue of the day is, this UK Government are not interested in Scotland’s democracy. Let us look in closer detail at the Conservative party position on that.
Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton East) (SNP)
Does the statement of reasons not clearly state that the Government do not have any legal basis on which to challenge this legislation? The simple fact is that the Secretary of State for Scotland has opened himself up to judicial review, because he will simply find that he has no modification of the Equality Act 2010, and that there are no examples—none—indicating that he has justifiable reasons for outlining a section 35 order.
Stephen Flynn
The Secretary of State has opened himself up to many things, ridicule among them, by his failure to see the blindingly obvious.
To revert to my previous point about the wider Conservative position, let us be clear and in no doubt whatsoever that the Conservatives are seeking to utilise this issue for a culture war—nothing more, nothing less. These are the dying embers of a failing Government who see the polls, who know they are on their way out, and who know their Members will lose their seats. In a last gasp attempt to create division, they are using some of the most vulnerable people in society to create a culture war.
Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP)
My hon. Friend is kind in giving way. He is absolutely right. The SNP was accused earlier of trying to use this issue as a vehicle to create a constitutional schism and conflict, but like all parties in Holyrood that voted the Bill through in the Scottish Parliament, the SNP had a mandate from the electorate in Scotland. Is my hon. Friend concerned, as I am, that the Conservative Government have no mandate from anybody for the action they are taking?
Stephen Flynn
I share my hon. Friend’s views. I am deeply concerned about that, and about the culture war that the Government are seeking to stoke.
Let us also reflect on what we have here. We have a Conservative Government, who have not been elected in Scotland since 1955. Perhaps most intriguing, we have a Secretary of State for Scotland who, in the coming months, will be walking out of this place. He will not be walking anywhere except along to the undemocratic House of Lords. Baron Jack, as he will come to be known, is trying to tell Scotland’s democratically elected parliamentarians what they can and cannot do, while at the same time knowing that he will end up in an unelected Chamber. Shame on him and shame on his Conservative colleagues.
Sir Bernard Jenkin
Why does the hon. Gentleman think that the gender recognition Bill has been such a protracted dispute in the Scottish Parliament and so divided the Scottish National party?
Stephen Flynn
I do not agree with the hon. Member on that. I think it is healthy in a democracy for discussion to be had within a Parliament, and that is exactly what has happened in Holyrood. It may have escaped his notice, but I will repeat that parliamentarians from each and every party in Holyrood voted in favour of the legislation. The question to him and his colleagues is: why are they seeking to overturn Scotland’s democratic view in this way? I am more than happy to invite him back in to answer that specific point. He is not interested.
Stephen Flynn
I have been generous in giving way so far.
Of course, this is not just about the Conservatives; it is about the Labour party, too. Should Labour Members rise from their seats and remove the splinters on this topic? Labour is the party that last year released a document by Gordon Brown that was meant to put devolution front and centre. Critics like me said, “We’ve all heard it before. It’s not going to happen,” and when Scotland’s Parliament is under attack from Westminster, where is the Labour party? It is nowhere to be found.
Douglas Ross
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way; this is the final time that I will intervene on him. Do all his SNP MPs in the UK Parliament support the SNP’s Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill?
Stephen Flynn
I will tell the hon. Member what my colleagues support, and that is enabling the people of Scotland to make decisions over their future without interference from his Westminster Government.
We have heard it all before from the Conservatives in their culture war, and we know that, under the Leader of the Opposition, the Labour party is rowing back from its support for the LGBTQ+ community on this topic. It is deeply disappointing to hear that. When we go to the Scottish electorate again, we will have a Labour party that is against the biggest issue that dominates Scottish politics at the moment. It is also against Scotland having its view in respect of our membership of the European Union, and supports the UK Parliament overriding Holyrood. Shame on Labour, too.
Drew Hendry
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way once again. Is not this political act of the Tory Government, grubbing around for one last dying ember of distraction and producing this vacuous document as an excuse, an example of desperation? Is it not also, as he has outlined, an example of desperation to get into power that the Labour party will not even take a position to support the devolution that it was supposed to champion in the first place?
Stephen Flynn
Absolutely. I am confident that the people of Scotland will be watching and listening to Labour’s position. I am more than happy to let the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) intervene if he so wishes. [Interruption.] No, he just wishes to chunter from a sedentary position.
Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)
I am listening to the hon. Member’s argument, which appears to be about democracy. In some respects, I can see the power of it, but I am a bit confused. It seems to me that the SNP, with representatives from Scotland, voted for the Scotland Act 1998 and for the section 35 measures that are being used today. Furthermore, they can be used today in the UK Parliament because the Scottish people voted to remain in the UK in a referendum just in 2014.
Stephen Flynn
With all due respect, I think that the hon. Member is missing the point. Democratically elected Members in Scotland’s Parliament have voted for legislation in a devolved competency and the UK Government—her party—are seeking to block that legislation. That is simply not fair, and it is not democratic in any way, shape or form.
What comes next in the continual democratic deficit we experience in these here islands? It is incumbent on reasonable Unionists, of whom I think there are many—I do not see very many in front of me, but I think there are many in society—to come forward.
Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)
In part 2 of this big flabby document, the heading states:
“Adverse effects of different GRC regimes across the UK”.
If there is no allowance for different GRC regimes, how come gender recognition is devolved in the first place?
Stephen Flynn
Indeed. A very powerful and eloquent point by my hon. Friend, as always.
The point of what comes next is incredibly important. Where do we go when Scotland’s Parliament, our views and our purpose is just being ignored by Westminster? What are we to do? How are people in Scotland to respond? When will reasonable Unionists stand up and say, “You know what? This isn’t on. If you believe in this Union of equals, then you put the Scottish Parliament first.” I do not see that and I do not hear that in Westminster, and this is the clearest example of that.
Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)
My hon. Friend is making a really powerful speech and putting the democratic deficit front and centre for people. As well as the huge disappointment I am sure we all feel about what the UK Tory Government are doing, is he disappointed that the UK Labour party, it is reported, will not challenge this intervention, to the great disappointment of a number of its Scottish MSP colleagues? Those colleagues of Labour Members are deeply disappointed, and no wonder.
Stephen Flynn
Indeed. As we are looking for reasonable Unionists, they are clearly not found on the Labour Benches. If the shadow Secretary of State wants to clarify that that is not the case, then I am more than happy for him to do so, but I will be unsurprised if he does not.
Sir Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
I am very reluctant to be goaded by the SNP, but none the less here we are.
Just to be clear, I certainly wanted to make sure that there is a proper gender recognition plan across the whole United Kingdom, because I am sick and tired of people setting women’s rights against trans people’s rights. That is where I want to get to and I am looking for solutions to that problem, not anything else.
Stephen Flynn
I respect the sincerity with which the hon. Gentleman delivers his points in that regard and I see a lot of hon. Members nodding. Well, if that is the case, I am sure he will support us, because we have a solution in Scotland. That solution is the legislation put forward in the Scottish Parliament, which has received democratic support in the Scottish Parliament and which this UK Government are blocking. He should share my anger, and I hope the anger of his colleagues in the Scottish Parliament, on that particular point.
It is a rarity in this place—I am sure she will forgive me—that I agree with some of the comments made by the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine). We heard from her earlier about the difficulty this situation is causing her in respect of the Union. Hers is the sort of voice we need to hear at this moment in time—the voices of reasonable Unionists about where they seek to go. If this is a Union of equals, as it is portrayed, and if Scotland’s Parliament is to be the most powerful devolved legislature in the world, as we are often told it is, then why is the section 35 order being used?
Drew Hendry
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way once again. He is talking about reasonable Unionists and said he could not see any on the Labour Benches. However, there are reasonable Unionists who have been on those Benches. Would he be interested in the words of Ged Killen, the former Labour MP, who said:
“The idea that one man, elected by 22,000 people, can overturn devolved legislation brought in by the Scottish Parliament and supported by the vast majority of our MSPs is outrageous and will surely not stand up in court.”
Stephen Flynn
Indeed, that is very much the case.
While I am on the point about reasonable Unionists, I want to reflect on the words of Donald Dewar in relation to the Scottish Parliament, because that is, after all, what we are talking about. He said:
“Walter Scott wrote that only a man with soul so dead could have no sense, no feel of his native land. For me, for any Scot, today is a proud moment; a new stage on a journey begun long ago and which has no end. This is a proud day for all of us. A Scottish Parliament. Not an end: a means to greater ends. And those too are part of our mace. Woven into its symbolic thistles are these four words: ‘Wisdom. Justice. Compassion. Integrity.’”
Wisdom, justice, compassion and integrity: each of those words is reflected in the legislation brought forward in the Scottish Parliament. That is why it received overwhelming support from Scottish parliamentarians; it is why Members from each and every party in the Scottish Parliament voted in favour of it; and it is why it is so important that we stand up for Scotland’s Parliament, stand up for Scotland’s democracy and ensure that the people of Scotland’s views are heard in this place.
I sincerely hope—I say this to him in all sincerity—that the Secretary of State will reflect on the damage that he seeks to do to his own Union in this regard. I hope that he makes a volte-face, shows that he does respect Scotland’s democracy and allows the legislation to pass as it should.
Oral Answers to Questions
Stephen Flynn Excerpts(1 year, 10 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
Given the longest and deepest recession in the entire G7, Brexit, 13 years of Tory rule, the energy price crisis, inflation and high interest rates, if the people of Scotland do the maths—as the Prime Minister so hopes—will they not come to the conclusion that this Union simply does not add up?
The Prime Minister
I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman brought up the subject of energy. He was right to do so. When it comes to the economy, energy is incredibly important to Scotland, and Scotland will play a fantastic part in helping us make the transition to net zero. We now know, however, that the Scottish Government do not want to support the Scottish energy industry and the 200,000 jobs that it produces. I am keen to work with the Scottish Government to support the North sea, because it is something of which we are all very proud in the United Kingdom.
Stephen Flynn
If the Prime Minister wants to talk about the fact that Scotland is energy rich but fuel poor on Westminster’s watch, I am more than happy to do that. For today, however, let us reflect on numbers, and in particular the numbers on which Sam Coates of Sky News shone a light—notably those relating to the Prime Minister’s favourite potential successor, which showed that over four months, for four speeches, he had raked in more than £1 million. Does the Prime Minister not find it utterly perverse that senior members of the Conservative party are feathering their nests in this way, while at the same time seeking to deny working people the opportunity to strike for fair pay?
The Prime Minister
I do not think we need to talk about our predecessors, but I remember—[Interruption.] If I am not mistaken, it was one of the hon. Gentleman’s predecessors who worked for Russia Today.
The hon. Gentleman talks about priorities. Yesterday the SNP spent time talking yet more about independence at a time when we should be talking about delivering for people across the United Kingdom, focusing on their jobs and improving the NHS throughout the UK, in Scotland and, indeed, everywhere else. That is the kind of thing I want to talk to the Scottish Government about, and I hope the hon. Gentleman will work with me to do that.