Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Section 35 Power

Kirsten Oswald Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Flynn]

Indeed. A very powerful and eloquent point by my hon. Friend, as always.

The point of what comes next is incredibly important. Where do we go when Scotland’s Parliament, our views and our purpose is just being ignored by Westminster? What are we to do? How are people in Scotland to respond? When will reasonable Unionists stand up and say, “You know what? This isn’t on. If you believe in this Union of equals, then you put the Scottish Parliament first.” I do not see that and I do not hear that in Westminster, and this is the clearest example of that.

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

My hon. Friend is making a really powerful speech and putting the democratic deficit front and centre for people. As well as the huge disappointment I am sure we all feel about what the UK Tory Government are doing, is he disappointed that the UK Labour party, it is reported, will not challenge this intervention, to the great disappointment of a number of its Scottish MSP colleagues? Those colleagues of Labour Members are deeply disappointed, and no wonder.

[Stephen Flynn]

Indeed. As we are looking for reasonable Unionists, they are clearly not found on the Labour Benches. If the shadow Secretary of State wants to clarify that that is not the case, then I am more than happy for him to do so, but I will be unsurprised if he does not.

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[Steven Bonnar (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (SNP)]

There is no Scottish Labour party.

[Kirsten Oswald]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Ian Murray]

I will give way to the hon. Lady while the hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Steven Bonnar) chunters nonsense in the background.

[Kirsten Oswald]

I am interested in how the hon. Gentleman characterises some of what we have heard today, but if he thinks that the Labour party has no role in this, and if he does not think the Labour party ought to have a view or an opinion, or to take a position, he needs to make that clear, because his colleagues in the Scottish Parliament do have a view. They voted for these provisions, as did SNP, Liberal Democrat and some Scottish Conservative Members. He should stop being disingenuous and be clear. Where does the Labour party stand? Will it defend the right of the Scottish Parliament to act or not?

[Ian Murray]

I will tell the hon. Lady exactly where we stand: we want this legislation to work. At the moment, the legislation is dead because—

[Kirsten Oswald]

Because of them.

[Ian Murray]

The hon. Lady might say that from a sedentary position, but the hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn) quoted Donald Dewar at great length. Donald Dewar will be turning in his grave at what is happening in relation to devolution and Scottish politics, because he created the section 35 process for the very reasons the hon. Lady just said. Section 35 is a process to enable cross-border problems to be resolved.

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[Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)]

I speak in this debate as someone who is extremely privileged to serve in both this Parliament and the Scottish Parliament, so I am able to bring some points of view that were not accurately articulated by the leader of the SNP, the hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn). It is sad that he is leaving the Chamber—I think it is important, because I will refer to a number of points he made.

The hon. Gentleman spoke about legal advice. We had a situation in the Scottish Parliament where, the night before crucial amendments were debated, the Cabinet Secretary wrote to Conservative, Labour and SNP MSPs about their amendments and the legal advice surrounding them, but told them that that legal advice could not be shared. Yet here we have the UK Government sharing their statement of reasons with Parliament, and I think that is—[Interruption.] Well, it is based on legal advice. I am just showing the different approach by the two Governments. It is based on legal advice; that was clear from the Scottish Secretary.

It is also important to recall that, although the SNP leader in this place and others have correctly said that this debate has been raging in Scotland for over six years, I have not yet heard—I am willing to take interventions from any SNP Member who can explain it to me—why the Bill had to be passed by December of last year. What was the rush, in the lead-up to Christmas, that meant it had to go through the Scottish Parliament before the end of the year?

[Kirsten Oswald]

I am delighted to remind the hon. Gentleman that, as we have heard a few times today, the Bill is the opposite of rushed legislation. It has been in the works for six years, it has repeatedly been a manifesto commitment from a number of parties and it has been the most consulted-on legislation. He might reasonably ask why it took as long as it did.

[Douglas Ross]

The hon. Lady misses the point. Yes, there has been a debate for six years, so why then did the Bill have to go through stage 3, looking at amendments until midnight or 1.30 in the morning, to be rushed through before the end of the Session, when there was so much debate and controversy? Remember, there were 150 amendments; if that legislation had not been rushed, there would not have been a need to look at 150 amendments. I have yet to hear any SNP Member saying why the Bill had to be put through in December of last year.

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[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

This is a dark day for democracy. It is shameful that the UK Parliament and the so-called Secretary of State for Scotland, whom I note is no longer in his place, would seek to overrule and override the democratically elected representatives who people in Scotland have sent to our national Parliament. That shows contempt for the Scottish Parliament and its ability to pass legislation in its areas of competence. It is no exaggeration to call it out for what it is: a politically motivated assault on our democratic processes and institutions by a right-wing Tory party with no compunction to use one of the most marginalised groups in our society to achieve its aims.

We must remember what this is all about: simplifying the process for people applying for a gender recognition certificate. That is all. It does not change the effect of a gender recognition certificate, which remains the same as under the Gender Recognition Act 2004. It seeks only to improve and simplify the process by which a trans person can apply for legal recognition of their acquired gender. That right has been in place for 18 years. The Bill represents an important step to creating a more equal and fair Scotland where LGBT people are valued, included and empowered. I am proud that the Scottish Parliament voted for that.

Let us be clear: the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill was passed overwhelmingly by the Scottish Parliament and Members from all parties, including the Tory party, and with the overwhelming support of SNP, Labour, Green and Liberal Democrat MSPs. All those parties represented in Holyrood—apart from the Tories—had committed in their manifestoes to improving gender recognition laws. As we have spoken about, the provisions are the most widely consulted upon in the history of Parliament.

As well as the broad and wide-ranging consultation, the Scottish Parliament’s Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee heard from the leader of the Irish Seanad about experiences with similar legislation there. And it is not only Ireland. We have heard today that such measures are in place increasingly in countries across the world. This is not groundbreaking stuff. It is inconceivable that there is good reason for us to argue about it. We have heard about all the conversations, the amendments and how the Bill passed through Parliament. Any examination shows that there has been a detailed and thorough process leading up to a clear decision. All that was within the competence of the Scottish Parliament, so why the UK Government—no friend of human rights in any guise—want to step in on this issue that affects a marginalised group so much is a mystery.

The Secretary of State for Scotland may have a different view from me on a gender recognition reform. That is his right, just as my views are my right. What should not be his right as one man—the soon-to-be Baron Jack—is to step forward and override the democratic voice of the Scottish Parliament, throwing his weight around just because he can. I have read the statement of reasons and I still cannot fathom the basis for this measure.

Whether on the constitutional or the gender issue, the coats of the Secretary of State and the Government are on a shoogly peg. Let us think about what the Tory Reform Group has said. The Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee has pointed out that the Bill does not cut across equalities legislation, and let us also think about what Andy Maciver has said. All of those people have made points that should be listened to. Fundamental to all that is the democratic point: the Scottish Parliament has voted for these measures and it is its right to do so.