Employment Rights Bill (Seventh sitting)

Peter Bedford Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 5th December 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Justin Madders]

We are taking this approach because we want to be reasonable and engage with businesses and trade unions on what the shape looks like. That is why the full consultation, which will look at the broad range of issues, is not yet ready. It is not really in the spirit of that for us to nail down everything in the Bill. Most employment rights have their detail in secondary legislation.

There are some clear principles about the levels of compensation that we will set out. Clearly, a worker should not be compensated for more than the number of hours that he or she has lost. If other heads of loss occur, there are already principles about wages, for example, whereby ongoing losses have to be compensated for. That is the kind of thing where the detail ought to be put into secondary legislation and consulted on fully, which is what we intend to do.

[Mr Peter Bedford (Mid Leicestershire) (Con)]

The one thing that businesses do not like is uncertainty. Unfortunately, there are so many gaps that need filling in the Bill that it makes it very difficult for businesses to plan for the future—for example, about how many people they will employ, what risks they will take on, and how to budget. Does the Minister accept that the Bill is so full of gaps that it causes more uncertainty for businesses and makes it harder for them to plan?

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

There is a danger that we will get too prescriptive about this. There will be a relatively small number of cases in which there is detriment, but they are all going to be very fact-sensitive. That is why we have framed the amendment in this way.

[Mr Bedford]

The hon. Member for Dundee Central referred to how a lot of businesses will have insurance for various eventualities. As a maximum is not specified, have the Government considered the unintended consequences of such provisions on businesses’ ability to insure against such instances?

[Justin Madders]

We are not talking about the general running of a business, with reference to shift notice and cancellations; we are talking about a very specific set of circumstances in which an employer’s act is considered to be detrimental to the employee and gives rise to an employment tribunal claim. I am sure that there are insurance products that cover all employment tribunal claims, but this is about individual acts of penalisation against employees or workers. This is not a departure from existing legal principles; it is well set out and understood by lawyers and HR practitioners. I do not envisage that this is a provision that will be greatly used, but it is an important principle to have in the Bill.

Amendment 48 agreed to.

Amendment made: 49, in schedule 1, page 107, line 39, leave out from beginning to end of line 11 on page 108 and insert—

“(7A) Where—

(a) the complaint is made under section 48(1BA),

(b) the detriment to which the worker is subjected is the termination of the worker’s contract, and

(c) that contract is not a contract of employment,

any compensation must not exceed the compensation that would be payable under Chapter 2 of Part 10 if the worker had been an employee and had been dismissed for a reason specified in section 104BA.”—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment relates to the maximum award of compensation by an employment tribunal in a detriment claim under section 48(1BA) of the Employment Rights Act 1996. The change achieved by the amendment is that the maximum award in cases involving the termination of an arrangement that is not a worker’s contract is at the tribunal’s discretion.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(Anna McMorrin.)

Employment Rights Bill (Fifth sitting)

Peter Bedford Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 3rd December 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Greg Smith]

I am clear that it should be 500 or fewer. I will not pretend to guess how some of the misdrafting may have occurred; it happens to all parties when they are in government and in opposition. I can remember a couple of errors in Bill Committees when I was sat on the Back Benches on the opposite side from the then Opposition. I apologise to the Committee for any errors. For the clarity of the record, we mean 500 or fewer employees when we are defining an SME.

To be asked to give Government the power to make regulations with no idea what the regulations imposed on businesses will be, is clearly not a position we want to be in. The Government admit that the day one unfair dismissal rights could have negative impacts on employment and hiring, which could include incentivising employers to turn to temporary or fixed-term workers. The day one unfair dismissal rights could make it more difficult for those unemployed or economically inactive to access jobs, through overall negative impacts on employment and/or a strengthening of insider power. Alex Hall-Chen from the Institute of Directors warned the Committee that

“under the current system, employers are very likely to take a risk on hiring a borderline candidate who may not have quite the right experience or qualifications, but they will now be much less likely to take that risk because the cost of getting it wrong will be considerably higher.”––[Official Report, Employment Rights Public Bill Committee, 26 November 2024; c. 8, Q2.]

There are important questions about what that means for people on the fringes of the labour market, especially as they are precisely the people the Government say that they need to get back into work to meet their 80% employment rate target.

We should all reflect on this point from the evidence that we heard last week: very many people in our society deserve a second chance in life. They might have made mistakes before, or be on a path to rehabilitation from offending or something else—whatever it might be—and I would hate it if people who found themselves in that position were not able to get a second chance. Employers that are willing to give second or even third chances should have the best empowerment to do so, to get people who find themselves in that position into work and on to the path to a better life.

I fear that the unintended consequence of the legislation will be to shut many people who find themselves in that position out of the ability to get a job, to improve their lives and to get themselves on to a better path. SMEs will feel the burden of the new regulations particularly acutely without large HR and legal teams, as I have said.

[Mr Peter Bedford (Mid Leicestershire) (Con)]

The Bill as drafted seems to skew a competitive advantage in favour of large businesses. Earlier, my hon. Friend mentioned that small and medium-sized businesses are the key to economic growth in our country. These amendments will enable them to compete evenly because, as he says, they do not have large HR functions, or the support mechanisms that large businesses have. The amendments will redress the unfairness in the Bill.

[Greg Smith]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that input. He is absolutely right, and his argument hits the nail on the head. The point we are trying to get across through the amendments in my name and that of my hon. Friends in Committee is that small businesses sometimes just do not have the resource to go through the heavy, burdensome regulations that big businesses can navigate. Mega-businesses probably have more employees in their HR or legal department than most small businesses have altogether.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alex McIntyre]

My experience in business goes way back. My parents ran a small business and, although I would not say I was a worker at it, I helped out from the age of nine. I got my first job at a small business when I was 12, and I worked in the hospitality trade throughout my school and university years, all at small and medium-sized enterprises. I spoke last week about the fact that I was on a zero-hours contract for the most part while I was there. I then became an employment lawyer advising businesses, from start-ups to FTSE 100 companies and global conglomerates. So I have some experience in these matters, and I am very grateful to be on the Committee.

Let me go back to my experience on a zero-hours contract. We are talking about amendments that would take out SMEs from many of these provisions, and I want to draw on two of my experiences and say why I think this issue is important. I mentioned the first last week: when I was on a zero-hours contract at the hotel that I worked at in my later teens, everybody in that business was on a zero-hours contract. As a 15-year-old, I was quite happy to be on a zero-hours contract. I had to balance it with playing rugby and my studies, but in the summer I could flex up and work longer hours. However, for many of my colleagues, that was their full-time job; it was the job that paid their rent or mortgage—if they had been lucky enough to buy a house—looked after their kids and provided the heating each winter. But when it came to it, it was open to abuse, and the manager I had would vary hours based not on demand, but on whether she liked the individual or not.

I remember vividly that one week a colleague refused—quite rightly, I would say—to take the manager’s personal shopping up to her fourth-floor flat, because he was really busy behind the bar; he was the only barman on shift. He usually worked between 50 and 60 hours a week; for the next month, he was given five hours a week. He had two children, and rent to pay. I just do not agree with the amendment suggesting that that is fine and that that abuse of someone’s rights could continue indefinitely.

[Mr Bedford]

The example the hon. Gentleman has just given would be covered anyway by employment law. If an individual is being discriminated against, they could take that to a tribunal under current employment law. The amendment would not in any way dilute the rights that currently exist in that respect.

[Alex McIntyre]

Well, the individual would be able to raise a grievance, but discrimination requires it to be related to a protected characteristic, and there is no protected characteristic saying that just because someone disagrees with a manager, he would be able to bring a claim under the Equality Act 2010 for discrimination. He might be able to raise a grievance about that, but that requires an employer to have a fair grievance process and to actually follow through. Is that individual, who is already on very low pay and struggling to pay his rent and feed his kids, going to take that grievance through a tribunal system that the previous Government allowed to really suffer? Eighteen to 24 months is the standard waiting time to get any form of justice, so I do not think it is appropriate to say that he would be able just to go to a tribunal. What he really needed was guaranteed hours and small businesses being prevented from abusing people by saying that they can continue to work 60 hours but not offering them a regular-hours contract.

My second point is on sexual harassment or harassment by third parties. When I was 15 years old, I worked at a Christmas party for midwives at that same hotel, and during that party I was sexually assaulted in the workplace. I was groped by the midwives and told that because I was only 15, they would be able to teach me a thing or two. When I approached my manager about it, he said I should enjoy that kind of attention because I was a man. I am really conscious that female colleagues suffered way worse than I did. Just because businesses are smaller, that does not mean that the impact on victims and people working there is any less.

However, the wording of the Bill is “all reasonable steps”, and the “reasonable” test is taken into account when tribunals consider such matters and what reasonable steps need to be taken by businesses. The size of a business is often something that tribunals will take into account when they look at what “all reasonable steps” would mean. In my example, there were reasonable steps that could have been taken, but I was told that I had to get back in there and carry on working with that party. Excluding small businesses would prevent them from having the duty to look after their employees when they are suffering harassment in the workplace.

To come back to the point made by the hon. Member for Mid Leicestershire about competing evenly, my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Northfield has already talked about some of the perverse outcomes that the amendment might lead to. Unscrupulous employers who want to get around the legislation in whatever way they can might end up setting up umbrella companies in order to do that if this amendment were passed. A two-tier employment system would be a barrier to growth for companies, because it would say, “If you grow your company and continue to do well, you are going to put additional regulation on to the company.” There would be a perverse incentive for businesses to grow to 499 employees and stop there.

Employment Rights Bill (Third sitting)

Peter Bedford Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 28th November 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Alex McIntyre (Gloucester) (Lab)]

Q My questions are for Claire. I should declare that I am a Co-op member and a member of the Co-operative party. You mention having a positive relationship with your unions. I was an employment lawyer before I came to this place, advising businesses up and down the country. In terms of your view on the provisions around union recognition in this Bill, what do you think the benefits to business are of having a positive relationship with the trade unions that represent your employees?

You also mention an increase in employment tribunal claims. We would hope that most employers would follow the new legislation and therefore avoid those claims, but we both know that there are a small number of bad-faith actors who will always try to find a claim. There are already claims that individuals can bring from day one, but do you think you will see a big increase in bad-faith claims, or do you think they are already there in the system?

Claire Costello: I will take the point about unions first. The strong relationship we have with the union means that we can work in a very collaboratively challenging way together—do not get me wrong; it is not without having difficult conversations, but that is the point. A healthy relationship is like a healthy marriage. You do not just give up on each other. You have those difficult conversations with each other and face into issues and look for solutions. The key for me is looking for solutions. Having very progressive relationships means that you can talk about the direction of the business and what you need to do, and work together on finding solutions. That is what we have found with our relationships. It is not always easy, but it is absolutely the better way of going forward.

In terms of employment tribunals, I think you are right. The reason we think it would go up is that, as with all things, when something becomes more available, by virtue of that fact there will be more people who want to use it. We do not have the absolute evidence to say it, because it is not there today, but the reality will be that if you can take their employer to court, why would you not? There will be more individuals who would wish to do so. We have said before that it is about having clarity and making sure that we understand what reasonable looks like and what the steps are that would be expected. It is more about the onus of extra work that this will bring to each of the areas. As I said, we follow all of the processes very strictly, and we try to make sure that we have a very fair and open conversation with all of our colleagues. The challenge will always be that you cannot make everybody happy all the time.

[Mr Peter Bedford (Mid Leicestershire) (Con)]

Q Ms Costello, you mentioned some statistics on those leaving your organisation quite early on after starting. Could you reflect on the impact on productivity of the day one rights and probationary period?

Claire Costello: Gosh, that is a good question. I do not see why it would make a difference to productivity itself, because at the end of the day you are still bringing someone new into the organisation. I think it would be a longer-term impact. If we did start to see more people raising a grievance because they want to leave or because we have said, “Actually, this is not the right role for you.”, it would be the time perspective that would be drawn on. That is more your line managers, store managers and leaders around the organisation that would draw on to that resource. I kind of see it as more of a longer play in terms of productivity.

[Mr Bedford]

Q On that longer-term point, if you have more employees raising more grievances, it takes up more staff time and manager time, and therefore it would have a detrimental impact on productivity.

Claire Costello: Absolutely, and I think that was what James was referring to as well, when you think about the smaller stores within the convenience sector. But for us, it absolutely is about the time that it takes for line managers and regional managers. Do not forget that we are not just a retail provider, so it would be within our funeral homes, when we should be out looking after clients at the most difficult times in their lives, and our insurance organisations, as well as legal services. It is across the whole organisation for us.

But yes, it is the line management time that goes into following these processes, doing them well and making sure that everybody is having the right hearings that they should be having. It is a time-consuming process. It is right because, absolutely, we want to make sure that everybody has a fair hearing and that the right decisions are being made for the right reasons. However, it is time-consuming and that is the concern.

[Alison Hume (Scarborough and Whitby) (Lab)]

Q Mr Lowman, do your members guarantee hours and provide reasonable notice of shifts, or make some payment when they cancel shifts at short notice? If not, what do you think the effect is on their employees—in other words, do the employees struggle to pay their bills?

James Lowman: By and large, we set out shifts; we have clear shifts that are worked to. It would be rare that a shift got cancelled at short notice. With convenience stores, fundamentally we are open for those hours; we need to fill those hours. It would have to be something pretty extraordinary that would lead to a cancellation, for example a massive disruption to delivery. We would be bringing in extra colleagues to deal with a delivery, which then gets cancelled, so that work is not there for them to do. However, even that is relatively rare, so we provide consistency of hours.

It is more common that the challenge is dealing with sick leave and then having to fill shifts, and additional shifts coming in. That is when you might get some later changes and later notice, because someone has phoned in sick that morning, so you need to fill the shift that morning; you need to have a person in the store, or—worst case—the store could not open. Again, however, a lot of that is done colleague to colleague, in terms of filling those shifts.

Regarding the impact, there are a whole range of people working in our stores, for some of whom it is a second income in their household. But for many, it is the first income in their household, so it is very important that we provide that local, flexible and secure work to people. In many ways, this Bill is enshrining and codifying things that are already common practice in our sector.

Employment Rights Bill (First sitting)

Peter Bedford Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 26th November 2024 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

Thank you. Very briefly—question and answers—Peter Bedford.

[Mr Peter Bedford (Mid Leicestershire) (Con)]

Q You mentioned the risks to recruitment and retention of staff. Specifically on youth unemployment and recruiting younger people, what impacts will this Bill have for your affected members?

Matthew Percival: This is a question of broader context as well. We have already mentioned the changes at the Budget and how the impact of the threshold element of the national insurance changes in particular is concentrated in sectors that currently employ a large number of young people. The Bill also ends up focusing on the same area, and those businesses often speak about a triple whammy, because they are the same businesses that are affected by national living wage increases. In all three aspects, you end up with a similar group of businesses that face particular costs, and therefore, where there are unintended consequences, they are disproportionately likely to be faced by young people.

Jane Gratton: I think it might just influence an employer’s choice at the recruitment stage. If they have someone who comes along who has no experience but who they could take a chance on, or someone who is more experienced, and then there is the cost and the risk through the day one rights, it might just influence that decision. That is a worry, because that is not going to help us to tackle NEETs—people not in employment, education or training.

Alex Hall-Chen: I agree with that. I spoke to an SME just yesterday who said, essentially, that they will have to change their current recruitment process of taking on younger people and training them up, because it is too risky, given the reforms happening in the space, so they will focus on more experienced employees who can demonstrate previous competence.

[The Chair]

That brings us to the end of the time allotted for the Committee to ask these witnesses questions. On behalf of the Committee, may I thank the three witnesses for giving us full and very clear answers? Thank you very much.

Examination of Witnesses

David Hale and Dom Hallas gave evidence.

Employment Rights Bill (Second sitting)

Peter Bedford Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 26th November 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Chris Law (Dundee Central) (SNP)]

Q I am focusing still on fire and rehire. Listening to the comments made in the last five minutes, I think the consensus is that we want to see the end of fire and rehire, and I completely support that. However, when you look at the detail of the Bill, there could well be a loophole to allow it to continue. There is a clause that says that there is an exception for those in “financial difficulties”. What are your thoughts on that? For example, who defines what the financial difficulties are and who decides how that is to be negotiated? For me, using the term “financial difficulties” is a loophole to enable any employer to say, “We are going to have to let you go in this circumstance.” Do you agree with that, or do you think more work needs to be done on it?

Mick Lynch: I think we have to be very careful, because companies are very good at creating entities that are subsidiaries of subsidiaries that are based in other jurisdictions, with all sorts of measures that are far too complicated for a simple soul like me. I would like the reporting of a business to be very straightforward. Everyone will know whether a business is failing, and fire and rehire for a failing business is not going to work in many instances. Certainly on the onshore side, it is likely that the business will fold before such measures can be brought. And of course it is very difficult to do what P&O did because it relies on bringing people from overseas to replace people.

Grant Shapps, last year, or the year before, said at one stage that he was going to replace all the railway workers in Britain, so there was actually a Government Minister promoting fire and rehire during our dispute. So I think we have to be very careful not to allow loopholes. I know that accountants and auditors are very good at creating loopholes, but as far as possible it has got to be plain for the layperson to see whether a business is struggling and has genuine business needs to get any hint of an exemption, and they should be very rare indeed if they are to exist.

Martyn Gray: Quite simply, if directors can sign off the business as still remaining as a going concern, fire and rehire should not be an option. If we are looking at a scenario where directors are happy to say under companies legislation that it is a going concern but they need to do a complete restructure, strip away the employment rights, strip away the benefits, strip away working conditions—things that have been long fought over for many years of negotiation or long thought over for many years of discussions: all the benefits that sit within employment contracts—and strip them back to a minimum, that business is not in a position where it can consider itself a going concern. So I would set a really high threshold and then allow for scrutiny from the relevant bodies. If it turns out that that could have been avoided—fire and rehire in those scenarios—it is clear that those directors should not have gone through that and there must be consequences. So there is probably room for improvement, some tweaks and changes, but I would put it quite simply.

Gemma Griffin: A classic example is that during covid, overnight 80% of our business was gone and we had vessels that were worth a lot of money and a lot of crew. There were the inevitable discussions on redundancies or just stopping and what was going to happen. We made a deal with Nautilus and RMT that we would work on this together, because we were hoping things would come back. It was only in year two that we really had some sense that things would come back. But one of the things that we did was collectively go out to our workforce and say, “It is these jobs versus how about if we work together and we do a pay freeze for the two years and we just take that pain together so that we can have the jobs at the end of it.” And we did that together. If something is going to go bust, it is going to go bust. But if there was a way of keeping the money in a better way—suspending the training and non-essential stuff—we made operational changes. It is too easy to leave it in as a loophole. That loophole is like you are just taking the profits out of the pockets of your people. So I think we need to be careful there.

[Mr Peter Bedford (Mid Leicestershire) (Con)]

Q Mick, you mentioned that you felt there should be further legislation, which suggests that the Bill is falling short. Could you elaborate on what you would like to see the Government do if the Bill is falling short?

Mick Lynch: Well, we would like it very straightforward that there is going to be provision—an amendment—for sectoral collective bargaining. If there is proper sectoral collective bargaining across the economy, many of the issues that people are dealing with as individuals—individual rights, which they have to enforce for themselves, in many cases—will be dealt with. There is a lot of discussion about probation. We have probation agreements with every employer that we deal with, and we do not defend people who are incompetent or incapable. We have a process, and if we have sectoral collective bargaining, all those things will be covered.

[The Chair]

Order. I am sorry, but that brings us to the end of the time allotted for the Committee to ask questions. On behalf of the Committee, I thank all our witnesses for their evidence.

Examination of Witnesses

Paul Nowak, Maggi Ferncombe, Dave Moxham and Hannah Reed gave evidence.

Pub and Hospitality Sector

Peter Bedford Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Mr Peter Bedford (Mid Leicestershire) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered support for pubs and the hospitality sector.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Vaz. I apologise for my hoarse voice; I can assure hon. Members that it is not as a result of the overuse of pubs and similar venues in my constituency over the weekend.

Over recent months, I have had the privilege of visiting several hospitality venues in my constituency. I think particularly of the Curzon Arms in Woodhouse Eaves, which I reopened over the summer recess; the Forge Inn in Glenfield; the Stamford Arms in Groby; and the Coach and Horses in Markfield, which I have got to know over many years as the local councillor. I thank the many hon. Members who have turned up this morning; the debate is clearly of great interest.

The pub and hospitality sector has long been at the heart of the British economy. From the small countryside pub to big inner-city restaurants, the sector provides countless social and economic benefits for the United Kingdom. It is essential that we understand the challenges faced by the industry and do our utmost to support it to flourish.

The sector provides countless economic benefits to the UK as a whole. It contributes £140 billion in economic activity and provides £54 billion in tax receipts to the Exchequer. In fact, pubs and breweries contribute a whopping £18 billion in taxes to the UK economy.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Bedford]

If the hon. Gentleman could give me a few moments, I will carry on. The success of UK plc is intrinsically linked to the success of the leisure and hospitality sector. The hospitality sector is a key employer throughout the UK, employing 3.5 million people, many with flexible working arrangements. It is vital for our younger people. As of this year, 51% of 16 to 24-year-olds are employed in the sector, and that plays a crucial role in developing their careers.

In my maiden speech, I stated that social mobility, particularly through apprenticeships, is key to creating a fairer and more just society. Many businesses in this sector offer apprenticeship schemes. Is it not great that someone can start as a trainee, a pot washer, and end up running an entire business? I think that should be applauded.

The sector also provides many social benefits. Hospitality businesses play a crucial role in encouraging socialising. In a country where many, particularly the elderly, often feel isolated and alone, community pubs often provide a place for people to come and feel part of broader society.

I have spoken with local independent brewers in Leicestershire, in particular Everards, and we should also recognise the significant charitable contributions of community pubs. In Leicestershire, 153 independently-run pubs raise more than £1.5 million locally for local charities, which is reinvested in local communities to make them even greater places to live and work. That is invariably why 72% of British adults believe that pubs have a positive impact on the communities that they serve. I take the opportunity to celebrate the positive impact that the hospitality sector has in my constituency. In Mid Leicestershire, our 41 pubs cumulatively support more than 2,000 jobs and contribute £19 million to the Treasury.

However, as we are all aware, the industry has faced many challenges over recent years. What makes the sector so successful is its incredible resilience. There have been many challenges: the covid-19 pandemic, the conflict in Ukraine and various geopolitical challenges have sent input costs spiralling high. The pandemic saw the hospitality industry suffer the biggest economic decline of all sectors. Economic output in the sector between 2019 and 2020 decreased by 42%, and we lost 10% of hospitality businesses during the pandemic. However, industry experts recognise the support that the last Conservative Government offered the industry through the eat out to help out scheme, a temporary cut to VAT and furloughing more than 2.1 million jobs, which limited the impact of the pandemic.

There have also been significant global challenges. The sector’s resilience has been displayed throughout the ongoing cost of living crisis brought on by world events.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

The hon. Gentleman talked about the war in Ukraine and the cost of living. Dean Banks, who runs the Haar restaurant in St Andrews, told me that energy costs are a challenge. One of the problems is that energy companies use direct debits to keep hold of companies’ money, so they cannot manage their cash flow. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that that is a real issue?

[Mr Bedford]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. That applies to domestic consumers and to businesses that have to manage their cash flow, so I absolutely support her comments on energy providers.

The war on Ukraine, which brought about the increase in energy prices, has caused hospitality profit margins to continue to decline. Office for National Statistics data shows that hospitality businesses are more likely to shut their doors for at least two days a week than any other industry. However, once again the industry has expressed its gratitude to the previous Government for their support, particularly through the retail, hospitality and leisure business rates relief scheme, which saved the average hospitality business £12,000 and prevented many small and medium-sized businesses from going bust. The sector is not immune from the effects of over-regulation, which of course stifles creativity and businesses’ ability to grow.

So where are we heading? I will move on to what may happen under the new Government’s plans. With the Budget just around the corner, I implore the Chancellor to do all she can to support, not hinder, the hospitality sector. The sector is clear that it desperately needs a continued reduction in business rates. Many in the sector have stated that they face a cliff edge on 1 April next year if the Government do not extend business rate relief to them. Two pubs shut every day in the UK, and that number will only increase if the relief is not extended.

[John Cooper (Dumfries and Galloway) (Con)]

The point about closures is significant. In Scotland, the Government have imposed minimum unit pricing, which was introduced at 50p per unit of alcohol and has recently risen to 65p. It was intended to reduce alcohol-related deaths—a laudable aim—but unfortunately they rose to 1,277 in 2023, which is an absolute tragedy. The rate of hospitality business closures in Scotland is twice that of England, so does my hon. Friend agree that minimum unit pricing appears to be a blunt instrument that is not helping at all?

[Mr Bedford]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: minimum unit pricing in Scotland has had adverse consequences and has not benefited his constituents.

The Budget could not only include an increase in business rates for the sector; it is looking more and more likely that the Government are reviewing employers’ national insurance contributions. UKHospitality is clear that an increase in national insurance would be particularly damaging for the sector—that tax on jobs could finish off many businesses that are already on the edge.

The previous Government supported hospitality businesses by freezing alcohol duty for three years and introducing the Brexit pub guarantee. But with the “nightmare before Halloween” Budget on its way, it looks as though the new Government are looking to increase alcohol duty, and that would not be good news.

[Gregory Stafford (Farnham and Bordon) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is making a powerful point about taxes on alcohol. Many pubs are shifting away from being wet pubs and are becoming dry pubs. David Lee, who runs the Holly Bush in Frensham, told me that he wants to be able to serve good quality fresh food, but the VAT on it is really hitting his margins. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Chancellor should look at reducing VAT on fresh food for the hospitality industry?

[Mr Bedford]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: we should do all we can to support the industry as it recovers from the pandemic, and I hope the Chancellor takes on board his sensible suggestion.

For the hospitality sector, the most concerning part of the Employment Rights Bill, which had its Second Reading yesterday, relates to so-called equality laws, which are being updated to make employers liable for staff being “offended” by third parties. That would in effect turn hospitality managers into banter cops, who will feel duty-bound to step in every time someone makes an off-colour remark or joke. How on earth can we be entering a world in which someone can be deplatformed in their local pub? It is absolute madness.

I move on to another piece of Orwellian legislation. The ban on smoking in beer gardens and outdoor spaces is frankly ludicrous. The nanny state is causing outright economic harm to the industry, and I implore the Government to rethink their proposals.

Finally, I shall mention gambling regulation. There have been reports that taxes on the gambling sector will rise in line with the recommendations of the Institute for Public Policy Research commission on health and prosperity. The increase, worth £46 million, will wipe out the profit of the bingo industry and is likely to cost 8,000 jobs across our local communities. The bingo industry has made it clear that if speculation around the Budget comes to fruition, it will be even more damaging than covid and the energy crisis.

What could we do instead? We could look at cutting beer duty or bringing in 20% draught relief. The UK has one of the highest alcohol duties in Europe. Duty on a pint of 5% beer is 54p, compared with 5p in Germany. A pint of beer is four or five times more expensive in a pub than purchased in a supermarket. The brewery industry is the most taxed sector in the UK, at 40% of its turnover. That is a regressive tax and hits people on the lowest incomes the hardest.

[Mr Richard Holden (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is making a fantastic speech, covering all aspects of the hospitality sector. An extra benefit of draught beer relief is that 97% of the input into draught beer is made in the UK. That has a big knock-on effect across our agricultural sector. It is a win-win for UK farmers, the UK Exchequer and the hospitality sector. I urge him to continue to press the Government to push for greater relief in that space.

[Mr Bedford]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his intervention. More specifically to help the hospitality business, the draught relief of 20% that has been mentioned—a campaign led by my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Buckinghamshire (Greg Smith)— could see an extra 20 million pints sold a year and create 2,500 jobs, with a boost to the economy of more than £70 million.

We could protect hospitality businesses from the business rate relief changes. Pubs are taxed in a different way from most businesses—not on rateable value based on their rent, but as a calculation of their expected turnover. The ending of the retail hospitality relief would be deeply damaging for the sector, with businesses seeing a quadrupling of their business rates. I agree with the representations made by the British Beer and Pub Association that the relief should be kept until a new business rates framework is introduced.

We could also allow reform in the planning and licensing space. UKHospitality has advocated a more mainstream approach to the application of the planning and licensing framework. That would put pubs at the heart of the village and town centre. Kate Nicholls, CEO of UKHospitality, says:

“Too many hospitality businesses with ambitions to expand and grow are held back and frustrated by the current system.”

I also support the idea that there should be more flexibility for businesses to open later for special occasions, such as the women’s football World cup, to allow punters more time to enjoy the festivities. We could cut national insurance contributions for lower-paid earners and promote apprenticeships more.

The potential increase in employer national insurance contributions will have a massive impact on the UK hospitality sector. Industry experts have strongly criticised any move to make such an increase. They believe there should not be an increase—indeed, that there should be a lower level for lower-paid earners. Furthermore, the apprenticeship system is failing around the country. There needs to be a rethink in reforming the apprenticeship levy to incentivise businesses, particularly in this sector, to invest more and be more agile in how they offer apprenticeships.

In conclusion, I hope the Government take note of today’s debate and introduce measures that will enable our pub and hospitality sector to thrive and grow for the future.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Bedford]

I thank the many hon. Members who contributed to today’s debate. We certainly had lots of recommendations for pubs and hospitality venues across the United Kingdom.

Members who have heard the Minister’s response may be a little frustrated that we have not quite got the answers we wanted, particularly in respect of reforms to business rate relief, VAT, the apprenticeship levy, planning and licensing, or a commitment on national insurance and beer duty. I hope the Minister will make representations to the Chancellor and the Treasury to ensure that that vital aspect of support is implemented by the Government. In closing, I ask that the Chancellor, in her upcoming Budget, implements policies that will not hinder the sector, but enable it to flourish and grow.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered support for pubs and the hospitality sector.

Oral Answers to Questions

Peter Bedford Excerpts

Thursday 5th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Reynolds]

Business confidence was strengthened considerably across the United Kingdom as a whole following the general election and the return to some political stability, which businesses of every size have sorely missed over recent years. However, I hear the hon. Lady’s point about her area and region, which is an important priority for me. I will ensure she gets the meeting she needs, so we can have a conversation about how we can work together to give people in her area a platform for success.

[Mr Peter Bedford (Mid Leicestershire) (Con)]

What action is the Government taking to support small and medium-sized businesses in getting access to finance, so that they can grow for the future?

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I thank the hon. Member for that question. That is a key issue. There have been positive developments in recent years, particularly through the work of the British Business Bank. The Government feel that the landscape for public finance institutions is now quite busy. The key policy is to ensure that the national wealth fund aligns with priorities in this area, expands the work that has been done, and ensures consistency, so there is a ready way for businesses to understand what can sometimes be a confusing landscape. Also, policies such as that on growth hubs will continue, so the interface for businesses is straightforward and simple, and, fundamentally, the product to access finance will be there when they need it.