Oral Answers to Questions

Penny Mordaunt Excerpts

Monday 27th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)]

17. What steps his Department is taking to ensure that personal independence payment assessments are undertaken fairly and efficiently.

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Penny Mordaunt)]

The Department robustly monitors provider performance and independently audits assessments. Assessment reports deemed unacceptable are returned for rework. A range of measures, including contractual remedies, are used to address performance falling below those standards.

[Lilian Greenwood]

A constituent contacted me after she submitted a claim for personal independence payment and then had to wait 12 weeks for the home assessment appointment she needed. Capita finally telephoned, giving less than 48 hours’ notice of the visit, only to cancel 10 minutes before the appointed time. After three and a half months, she is still no nearer receiving the support she needs. I know from my discussions with the Meadows Advice Group that she is just one of dozens of disabled people being let down by the Minister’s Department. When will the Minister address this catalogue of failure?

[Penny Mordaunt]

If the hon. Lady would let me have sight of that case, I will look into it in particular, because it is unacceptable and falls below the performance and the courtesy, quite frankly, that we would want from our providers. People’s personal experience is very important in getting this process right. I am pleased to be able to say that from April we will commence the user rep panels, with about 300 people initially, across the UK, to whom we will give real-time experience of PIP and ESA—employment and support allowance.

[Mr Hepburn]

We have all had cases like that, but could it not only be an arrogant Tory Government who ignore legal decisions that override expert medical opinion in order to deprive people with mental health issues of the right to benefits? What level of cuts has the Minister promised the Chancellor in order to get this policy through?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is being very irresponsible in saying that. He knows that there is no change to policy, to budget or to award amounts. I remind him that people with mental health conditions are receiving higher levels of benefit than they did under DLA. This benefit is not about people’s conditions; it is about the impact that those conditions have on the individual’s ability to thrive and live their life as they would wish. It is quite wrong and irresponsible to suggest anything otherwise.

[Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) (Con)]

The vast majority of successful appeals are due to late additional submitted evidence. Therefore, to avoid unnecessary appeals, what steps is the Minister taking to automatically access medical reports with the consent of the claimant?

[Penny Mordaunt]

This is one of the key reasons why not only is 3% of the PIP caseload being overturned at appeal, but we are not getting the right decision at mandatory reconsideration stage. We have been doing a number of trials to improve that, including telephoning claimants to ensure that all the healthcare information that is required for a good assessment and a good decision is in place. There are other measures as well. I hope that this will improve the situation.

[Caroline Ansell (Eastbourne) (Con)]

Any delay in making the PIP award is stressful for the person in need of that support and creates inefficiencies in a very pressed system. A number of cases successful at first tier tribunal are challenged by the Department and then ultimately upheld. Can the Minister assure me that this number is monitored, statistically insignificant, and, in light of improvements in assessment, falling?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I can give my hon. Friend those assurances. In addition to the measure that I have mentioned, there are a number of other trials going on and a number of changes that our providers are making—for example, sitting down with someone and talking about the effects of their condition on their ability to live their lives prior to a medical history being gathered.

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)]

One thousand and ninety-nine people currently use the Motability scheme in Inverclyde. It can be over eight weeks before a successful appeal, and during that time claimants are without their car. What is being done to address this specific issue?

[Penny Mordaunt]

As I have reported to this House before, we have been working ever closer with Motability— a great scheme in its 40th year. We are looking at a number of issues, such as appeals; people who may wish to leave the country, whether for study, work experience, or any other reason; and potentially extending the scheme to other groups. We will report on that review as soon as we can.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

Can the Minister confirm that far from cutting support for disabled people, disability spending will increase every year to 2020 relative both to 2010 and today?

[Penny Mordaunt]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that spend will increase, but it is also vital that this Government look at other issues, as we are doing—for example, on the consumer agenda. It is no good our spending money and getting the employment support right if buildings are not accessible and people cannot make use of these opportunities.

[Ms Marie Rimmer (St Helens South and Whiston) (Lab)]

Last Thursday, at business questions, the Leader of the House stated that there would be a debate on the Government’s emergency PIP regulations, which will affect the eligibility for PIP of more than 160,000 people, mainly those with mental health conditions. However, he failed to give a date, and the praying against period comes to an end on 3 April. If there is no debate and vote before the House rises for Easter, even if the House votes against the regulations next month they will not automatically be revoked. That represents a huge democratic deficit. Will the Minister now commit to scheduling a debate and vote this week?

[Penny Mordaunt]

The hon. Lady will know that that is not within my gift; it is for the usual channels. It is not correct to say that the regulations will affect 160,000 people. [Interruption.] No, there is no policy change. There is no change to the budget, and there is no change to the guidance that we have issued to our assessment providers. It is quite wrong to raise fear by saying to people that they will be affected. No awards will be affected, and we are operating exactly the same policy and guidance in our assessment practices as we have done before.

[Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)]

4. What assessment he has made of the effect of recent personal independence payment changes on the income of people with mental illnesses.

[Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab)]

16. What estimate he has made of the number of disabled people who will be affected by the changes introduced by the Social Security (Personal Independence Payment) (Amendment) Regulations 2017.

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Penny Mordaunt)]

Recent changes to the PIP regulations clarify the original criteria used to decide how much benefit a person receives. This is not a policy change or a budget change, and it will not result in any claimants, regardless of their health conditions, seeing a reduction in the amount of PIP they have been awarded.

[Dr Philippa Whitford]

Former Sergeant William Bradley, who is one of my constituents, developed severe PTSD and depression while serving in the Gulf war, and he was medically discharged from the Army in 2003. He had been on the enhanced PIP rate since 2014, but it was cut to the lower rate last year. Following an appeal, it has now been removed completely. The reply from the PIP hotline was that someone with mental health issues can work, and that this is really a benefit for people with severe physical disabilities. Will the Minister meet me to discuss this awful case, or, if PIP is not the right benefit for those with mental illness, can she explain what is?

[Penny Mordaunt]

What the hon. Lady tells me has happened is truly shocking. I would be incredibly surprised if somebody who was manning that hotline said those things to the hon. Lady. I am not saying that I doubt her story, but I would like to see that and I would like to know, if possible, the exact time that that conversation took place, because that is quite wrong. I would be happy to meet the hon. Lady.

The statistics show that if someone has a mental health condition—if they have PTSD, dementia, a psychological disorder or another mental health condition —they are better served under this benefit. It is important that people know that.

[Mr Hanson]

Why did the Minister not consult the Social Security Advisory Committee, where her contentions about the impact of this benefit could have been challenged?

[Penny Mordaunt]

The Committee is within its rights to look at the decision. It did so, and it concluded that it would not formally review that decision. We have used the urgency procedure, as it was within our rights to do, to establish certainty. We do not want there to be a long period of uncertainty around this, and we do not want to be in the position of having to take money off people. What we have done is to restore that certainty. Everyone knows where they are, and people know that there is no change and their awards will not be changing.

[Paul Blomfield]

It was a constituent of mine whose case led to the recent tribunal ruling that clarified the eligibility criteria for PIP, and to the Government’s subsequent amendments to the regulations. She lives with multiple health problems and was supported by Sheffield Citizens Advice, which is due to publish a report later this week on the wider impact of the shift from DLA to PIP and the particular effect that it is having on the over-65s. Will the Minister agree to meet me and Citizens Advice to discuss its recommendations?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I would be very happy to meet the hon. Gentleman to do so. PIP is a better benefit than DLA—it better serves a wider range of people with a wider range of conditions better—but we can always make improvements to the system, and I would be very happy to meet him.

[Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)]

In relation to PIP, will the Minister assure me that the DWP is engaging with those with experience of mental health conditions to ensure that our programmes and our frontline staff have a proper understanding of how a mental health condition can have an impact on someone’s life?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I can give my hon. Friend such an assurance. In addition to the user rep panels that we are introducing in April, we have been conducting a trial since mid-March—it will take about six weeks—looking at audio recording, which should involve about 400 claimants. That is a tool not just to guarantee quality, but to provide reassurance to the claimant.

[Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con)]

Some of those who are eligible for PIP may well lose entitlement to the work-related activity group element come 1 April. Will the Minister reassure me that whether through the flexible support fund, the hardship fund or indeed third-party deals, there will be full mitigation for the losses they incur from 1 April?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I can give my hon. Friend such an assurance. People are open to apply to the financial channels he mentions if they need further support. We have been doing some work in the Department on social tariffs and budgeting, which will be rolled out across our Jobcentre Plus network, and all the elements of the support offer for that group are already in place.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

Last week I had to deal with a constituent whose benefits had been stopped because she missed an appointment to be assessed for PIP. She missed that appointment because she was an in-patient in hospital in Aberdeen. Even after evidence of that had been exhibited to the Minister’s Department, it twice refused to reinstate her benefits because it said that it had done nothing procedurally wrong. Is the Minister content that that is how the system is supposed to work?

[Penny Mordaunt]

The right hon. Gentleman will know that that is not how the system is supposed to work. If there is a reasonable reason why someone has not attended an appointment, missing it should not count against them. I am quite happy to look at the case that he cites, but that should not be happening.

[James Berry (Kingston and Surbiton) (Con)]

5. What recent assessment he has made of trends in the number of young people in work.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lucy Allan (Telford) (Con)]

T5. Some of my constituents have also raised concerns about changes to their personal independence payments. Will the Minister assure me that claimants will not see any reduction in their PIPs and that the changes are to ensure that help is targeted to those most in need?

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Penny Mordaunt)]

I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. There will be no change to award amounts, the budget or the policy. The benefit does not relate to a particular condition, but to how a condition has an impact on someone’s life. It is about the social definition of disability. I assure her constituents that that will continue to be the case.

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

T3. Last week, the Scottish Government wrote to the UK Government to express concern over how universal credit is pushing people into more hardship and debt. I also understand that the SNP-led Midlothian Council has written to the Minister to ask for a complete and immediate halt to the full service roll-out of universal credit, which is having an appalling impact on people across my constituency and a further knock-on impact on council resources. When will the Minister realise that the changes being pushed through are punishing some of the most vulnerable people in society? Will he heed warnings from the Scottish Government and others across Scotland that the process should be stopped now?

--- Later in debate ---

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank my hon. Friend not only for signing up to be a Disability Confident employer himself but for accepting that challenge, as many Members on both sides of the House have. If every Member of this House accepted the challenge, we would sign up enough employers to reach a quarter of the working population of the UK. I thank him for his leadership in that and wish him well on his visit to his chamber of commerce.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

T8. The Secretary of State spoke earlier about workers’ rights. Surely workers’ rights should also include the right to some certainty. Will he talk to his fellow Ministers in the Home Office about the fact that many European nationals have lived here for years, have British spouses and British children but are now told that they will have to have comprehensive health insurance in order to stay here?

--- Later in debate ---

[Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)]

Six out of 10 people with epilepsy who were migrating from DLA to PIP and were surveyed by Epilepsy Action saw their benefit removed or reduced. That compares with two out of 10 people who are migrating overall. Are Ministers confident that assessors and decision makers properly understand the fluctuating, sporadic and life-limiting condition of epilepsy, so that they can make the right decisions?

[Penny Mordaunt]

We are aware of that. That is one reason why we have increased the clinical support that is available to assessors. They are all healthcare professionals, so they will have that expert advice on hand in the assessment centres. That is something that we brought in recently.

[Ms Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh (Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP)]

Has the Secretary of State watched or listened to an appeal hearing for PIP applicants? I have received information and representations from a number of constituents who feel intimidated and misrepresented by the process. What steps is he taking to ensure that the people involved in the process are treated with the respect, dignity and compassion that they deserve?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. We think about every stage of this process. Clearly, if people appeal and those appeals are upheld, we have not got it right earlier in the process. I have mentioned some things that we are doing to build trust, confidence and support. We are also introducing a video relay service in April, which will be of particular help to those who are deaf or hard of hearing. There are a number of small changes like that that we can make to ensure that we get a good result earlier in the process.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)]

I have a 28-year-old constituent who was injured in the line of duty in 2010. He was awarded a tier 3 military pension, which is reserved only for the most severely injured, but he is due to lose his Motability vehicle and that decision was upheld on mandatory reconsideration. Is that seriously the type of person the Government wish to leave housebound?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I would say two things in response to that question. First, we have been considering particular issues around our armed forces in the Green Paper, which gives opportunities not just for ESA but for PIP. We are also looking at being able to passport information that may be in someone’s war pension record or medical history into our benefits system. I am quite happy to look at the case the hon. Lady raises with regard to Motability.

[Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby) (Lab)]

What does the Minister say to the private landlord who came to see me with his tenant with concerns about future eviction rates if there is no option under universal credit for rent to be paid directly to landlords?

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

We have been reminded that new claimants of employment and support allowance will get a much lower rate of benefit, starting in about 10 days. Some of those people will find themselves in serious difficulty. Do Ministers have any new proposals to help?

[Penny Mordaunt]

We do. In addition to the support offer, all the elements of which are in place, the Department has been doing a number of things, one of which is a big piece of work on social tariffs, which is about enabling people to have the right tools and information to reduce their household outgoings and giving them budgeting support.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

In November last year, my motion calling on the Government to at least pause employment and support allowance cuts until mitigation or Green Paper proposals were brought in was carried unanimously by the House. Given that this is the last parliamentary week before the cuts take place on 3 April, will the Minister confirm whether the mitigations she promised will be laid before the House for scrutiny?

[Penny Mordaunt]

They are already in place. I think this is a misunderstanding that the hon. Gentleman had. The elements that were outlined in the Green Paper were not speculative or things that we would be consulting on; they were things we were going to do. All the elements, including all the recruitment for all the community partners around the country, are in place now.

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

Let me return to the issue of the DWP estate and travel times. Given that this information has been gathered via Google Maps, which has been shown to be inaccurate as some bus services are no longer operational, will the Minister tell me what tests have been carried out to check the accuracy of the information? If there is a possibility of the ministerial guidance being breached, will any further proposed closures will go to public consultation?