Chemical Weapons Convention (Protective Programmes)

Nick Harvey Excerpts

Wednesday 16th February 2011 Written Statements

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

The UK’s chemical protection programme is designed to protect against the use of chemical weapons. Such a programme is permitted by the chemical weapons convention, with which the United Kingdom is fully compliant. Under the terms of the convention, we are required to provide information annually to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW). In accordance with the Government’s commitment to openness, I am placing in the Library of the House, a copy of the summary that has been provided to the organisation outlining the UK’s chemical protection programme in 2010.

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Harvey Excerpts

Monday 31st January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Alun Michael (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

1. What plans he has for the future of RAF St Athan.

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

The defence technical training change programme is currently considering options for the future location—or locations—of defence technical training. St Athan is one of the options being considered.

[Alun Michael]

I really do not understand the Government’s approach to this one. Does the Minister not realise that not going ahead with the St Athan defence training establishment as proposed snatches the advantages of integrated training away from all three services, and will be a body blow to south Wales, which is a region that has always been massively supportive of the services? Can we please have a decision from the Government on something positive about the future of St Athan?

[Nick Harvey]

The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that the private finance initiative project to deliver an integrated solution at St Athan failed—it simply was not possible to find a cost-effective solution and raise the funds necessary to build it. However, it does not follow that we have abandoned the proposition of an integrated solution. That is precisely what is being pored over at the moment by the change programme team. We hope to be in a position to draw that work to a conclusion as soon as possible.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

Does the Minister accept that, in these times of financial hardship, rather than building a new facility it would make more sense to consolidate defence training in areas with spare capacity, such as HMS Sultan in my constituency? It delivers outstanding engineering training and is in the heart of a military community.

[Nick Harvey]

The current training takes place at a variety of locations across the three services, some of which, including HMS Sultan, are in good order and could provide training well into the future. However, I have to say that other locations are in rather less reputable states of order and will have to be replaced. The change programme is currently considering whether there are such overwhelming advantages to having everything on one site that they would overcome the case against leaving some of the better facilities, such as the one my hon. Friend mentioned. As soon as we have a conclusion, we will report to the House.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

2. What estimate he has made of the number of armed forces personnel and their dependants who will be affected by proposed changes to the uprating of armed forces pensions; and if he will make a statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con)]

10. What estimate he has made of the cost to the public purse of relocating Tornado maintenance facilities away from RAF Marham.

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

As I said in answer to my hon. Friend on 8 November, all relevant costs, including those arising from any necessary relocations, will be given full consideration prior to any decision being taken. However, because the facilities she refers to are a major infrastructure installation, operated by contractors, it would inevitably be expensive to relocate.

[Elizabeth Truss]

I thank the Minister for his answer. In Thursday’s The Press and Journal he is quoted as saying:

“The costs of relocating out of Marham would be very high”.

He also described the economics of making that decision as being “not…clever”. When is he going to present a full analysis? Given the state of the deficit, does he agree that cost should be a major factor in making the decision?

[Nick Harvey]

Let me make it clear to the House that the primary consideration in the basing study will be the military advantages and the military necessity of locating particular things in particular places. We will, of course, have to take account of the financial climate in which these decisions are being made and their socio-economic impact. We are addressing all these things and hope to make a full announcement in the spring.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I wonder whether the Minister would care to comment on last week’s press reports that he told a meeting at RAF Lossiemouth that RAF Marham would be too costly to close. Those comments will have appalled those working at RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Leuchars, who believed that they would get a fair hearing from Ministers as they carried out their base review. Should we not conclude from his comments that the review is nothing but a sham?

[Nick Harvey]

I should correct the hon. Gentleman by saying that the meeting in question took place at RAF Kinloss. What I said to the Moray Task Force, whom I was meeting at the time, was that the costs of moving the in-depth maintenance facilities from Marham and, indeed, paying to relocate the staff of the contractors involved would be so prohibitive that it would potentially undermine any savings that might accrue from closing a base. The economics of moving the in-depth maintenance facilities for Tornado at this stage in Tornado’s life cycle would, as I said on Thursday last, be very questionable indeed.

[Stephen Barclay (North East Cambridgeshire) (Con)]

11. What steps his Department is taking to increase the effectiveness of project management for its major projects.

--- Later in debate ---

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

15. What estimate his Department has made of the cost to the public purse of returning British troops from Germany (a) between 2010 and 2015 and (b) between 2015 and 2020; and if he will make a statement.

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

The strategic defence and security review stated the Government’s aim to withdraw all forces from Germany by 2020. That objective is now being taken forward within a wider basing study aimed at making the best possible use of the defence estate. The basing study will take into account a range of factors, including cost, and is expected to report in the spring. Any costs incurred as a result of rebasing should be offset by the savings made in the longer term. While on a day-to-day basis it is more expensive to base troops in Germany than in the UK, this policy is not primarily about saving money. It is about enhancing our operational effectiveness and welfare.

[Grahame M. Morris]

I thank the Minister for that answer, but how much will the UK Government need to pay the German Government in compensation or reparations when our bases are vacated by British troops and handed back to German control?

[Nick Harvey]

The Government may need to pay redundancy costs to locally employed civilians, depending on circumstances, and costs might also be incurred in buying out any contractual obligations. However, the UK Government are not obliged to compensate either the Federal German Government or local communities for the impact of the British Army leaving Germany. The net injection to the German economy is around £700 million a year, so the hon. Gentleman might like to reflect on whether that might be better injected into the British economy.

[Patrick Mercer (Newark) (Con)]

The Minister will be aware of the considerable capital investment programme of the past 10 years for garaging and other heated facilities for armoured vehicles of the British Army of the Rhine. Will there be a similar programme in this country, or will the vehicles remain in Germany?

[Nick Harvey]

There is a general principle that we do not ask the Army to relocate to premises that are inferior to those in which they are already stationed. It would certainly be our intention to ensure that that is the case when they return to the UK.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

16. What recent assessment he has made of how the commitments in the strategic defence and security review are to be funded from his Department’s budget settlement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) (Lab)]

I know that Ministers touched on this issue earlier, but air-sea rescue is of enormous interest, not only to me but to the nation. I have attempted to get the answer to this question, so can he tell me whether the lead Department is the Ministry of Defence or the Department for Transport? When can we expect a statement in the House about this issue?

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

Both Departments are involved, but the lead Department is the Department for Transport, and any statement to the House will come from Transport Ministers. We hope that that will happen as soon as possible but, as I think the hon. Gentleman will understand, legal complexities are at play. The key thing is to decide how we are going to take forward search and rescue facilities, and I hope that the Department for Transport will be in a position to make a statement to the House very soon.

[Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con)]

T9. Will my right hon. Friend join me in recognising the importance of the contribution of smaller countries to our mission in Helmand province, and, in particular, the very gallant and disproportionate contribution made by Estonia and Denmark?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

Why, when the Prime Minister said there would be no cuts in infantry capability while we were on a combat mission in Afghanistan, is the strength of the Royal Marines being cut?

[Nick Harvey]

There is a very small headcount reduction in the Royal Marines—the right hon. Gentleman is quite right. However, those units were not going to be deployed to Afghanistan and, in consequence, this will not undermine the effort in that country.

[Greg Mulholland]

(Leeds North West) (LD): The city of Leeds has very close connections with HMS Ark Royal, following the remarkable fundraising campaign by local people and the adoption of the ship in 1941. On 12 February, the crew of HMS Ark Royal will be given the freedom of the city of Leeds and will take part in a parade. Will the Secretary of State join me in saying what a wonderful event that will be? Does he agree that there should be a permanent commemoration of this link?

The Army and RAF Lyneham

Nick Harvey Excerpts

Wednesday 26th January 2011 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

It is a pleasure to have you presiding over our deliberations, Mr Betts. I commend my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire (Mr Gray) for initiating this important debate on RAF Lyneham and the effects on the surrounding community. Its importance is reflected in the fact that so many of my hon. Friends from the Wiltshire area have turned up to support him. I also thank him for the dossier that he has given me from local community leaders. I assure him that we will give full consideration to what it contains as we move forward with our decision making.

Hon. Members will know that my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire has been an assiduous and persistent advocate for RAF Lyneham. In fact, during the previous Parliament, he must have raised it with almost as great a regularity as the fondly remembered Tam Dalyell raised the sinking of the Belgrano. Nothing would provoke me to imagine that he will be dropping the subject any time soon. He has campaigned industriously against the closure of Lyneham on behalf of his constituents, and I recognise that a wide section of his constituency has a very great concern about the future of the base.

I join my hon. Friend and several other hon. Members in paying tribute to the people of Wootton Bassett, who have provided such a dignified and moving homecoming for the deceased. That has been appreciated by the whole nation. We shall shortly be moving the repatriations to Brize Norton, but this is a moment to pay tribute to the people of Wootton Bassett for what they have done.

I also pay tribute to all the personnel who have served at RAF Lyneham since it opened for active service in 1940. It is rather an important point that, as has been said, it was announced in July 2003—getting on for eight years ago—that the future air transport and air-to-air refuelling fleets would be co-located at RAF Brize Norton by 2012. It must be acknowledged that the savings from that co-location will be significant. It is not possible to reopen that debate—the co-location is going ahead—but that decision meant that Lyneham would no longer be required for its current purpose, with current units leaving the base by 2012.

The Department has examined several alternative uses for the site. As the hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway (Mr Brown), who speaks for the Opposition, has mentioned, it was considered as a consolidated support helicopter base under Project Belvedere, but for the reasons that he has outlined, that unfortunately did not work out.

[Mr Gray]

The Minister is, of course, right, and I would not seek to reopen that debate. We are none the less a little puzzled as to how it can be that we will save an enormous amount of money by co-locating the air transport fleet at RAF Brize Norton, but we would not save a similar amount by co-locating the helicopter fleet at Lyneham. There seems to be no logic in those two arguments: one co-location does not pay; the other does. However, that involved the previous Government, whom the hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway (Mr Brown) supported, so perhaps we need not reopen that argument.

--- Later in debate ---

[Nick Harvey]

The key point is that when we are considering value for money, we have to balance the scale of the investment to build the facility against the savings that we will make from having everything at one location. I was not party to that decision, but clearly when those numbers were ground through the computers at the time, the judgment was arrived at that the Project Belvedere option did not represent value for money.

Since then, it has seemed unlikely that another defence use will be found for RAF Lyneham. I listened to my hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland) talking about the need for an economic plan, and I could not agree with him more. I am just mildly mystified as to why, 14 months before the base closes, the local civil population is talking about the need for a plan when the announcement that the base would cease its current role came eight years ago. The point that I am making is simply this: if there is to be a civilian use for RAF Lyneham in the future, rather than a military one—I am not saying for one moment that that will be the case—it will be for the local civil community to decide what that future will be.

The hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway asked about transitional assistance. There is no precedent for that coming from defence funds in the cases of other base closures. It would certainly be something that other Departments and local authorities, particularly under the new localism agenda, would need to pick up. My hon. Friends are absolutely right, and the tone that has been struck—

[John Glen]

Will the Minister give way?

[Nick Harvey]

In a moment. The tone that has been struck by my hon. Friends thinking constructively and positively about what the alternative uses might be is exactly the right way forward from where we are now.

I have been asked about the timetable for a decision. I can only repeat that it is more important to get things right than to do them at breakneck speed. A detailed study is taking place of the entire defence estate and the ramifications of bringing nearly 20,000 personnel back from Germany. I reassure the Opposition spokesman that that is a comprehensive piece of work and that it will not be piecemeal. That work is going on at the moment, and it will take a few more months. In any event, we anticipate that decisions and announcements will be made before the summer recess, which is the approximate time frame for the decision. To that extent, my point about those in the local community knowing where they are will be resolved in the next few months, but it is wise for them to make contingency plans.

[John Glen]

The point that needs to be made is that local communities are being prevented from establishing a viable economic plan. They have done considerable work with Wiltshire council to establish an embryonic plan, but an MOD decision is required before that option can be fully explored. One cannot do the local plan before the MOD decision is known.

[Nick Harvey]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention, but, with respect, this bone of comfort—that the Army might come back from Germany—has been thrown only in the past couple of months, and I am still mystified why planning for a civilian future did not start long ago.

[Mr Gray]

The Minister must not be mystified. The explanation is that the Lyneham taskforce convened within weeks of the original announcement in 2003, and the civilian-military co-operation involving Wiltshire council has been constant since then. The local community has been fully engaged for the past seven years in looking for alternative uses, so the Minister is quite wrong to think that we have not been. As he has said, however, the Army is a useful bone to be thrown at this stage.

[Nick Harvey]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for clarifying that. Clearly, I had drawn the wrong implication from some of the other contributions, which suggested that we needed to form an economic plan now. My hon. Friend, in whose constituency Lyneham is based, has said that such plans exist, and it is useful to have that recorded and clarified, so I am grateful to him.

Since the announcement in October, work has been under way to look at the basing requirements of not only the Army, but the RAF and the Navy. As I said in previous debates, including the one about Marham and the one about Leuchars last night, that is a big piece of work; we must get it right, and we will take our time to do that. I hope that we will be in a position to put all these local communities out of their agony as soon as possible, and I readily acknowledge that uncertainty is being caused in every community.

We have received many representations from hon. Members, local authorities, local groups and the devolved Administrations, and we will do what we can to take them all on board. Of course, there will be socio-economic impacts, but that will be true at any of those bases. We recognise those impacts, but they must be balanced against each other. Our overriding consideration, at the Ministry of Defence, is the military arguments. Bringing the Army back from Germany is something that we will do only once, and it is important that we get it right and put the Army in the right place for the next several decades. I must stress that we cannot really have a beauty contest between different parts of the country to secure the prize of a base in their locality.

Whatever the outcome of the review, it must be about what is best for the armed forces. Bringing back the Army units stationed in Germany is not an easy job. Once it has been decided which units we are bringing back to which locations, detailed work will have to take place to plan those moves. As the Opposition spokesman has said, investments will have to be put in place to prepare the bases that will receive those Army units. The work going on to bring the Allied Rapid Reaction Corps back to Innsworth, near Gloucester, has taken years. I am sorry to disappoint my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire, who painted a rosy picture of the Army marching in as the RAF marched out, but the likelihood of that happening is infinitesimally small. The programme to bring the Army back from Germany will happen over 10 years, and in almost no imaginable case will we see the Army march in as those vacating bases in the next year or two march out.

I implore Members to reflect on what was said in the strategic defence and security review about the Army’s intention to organise itself into multi-role brigades. Although we would not necessarily seek to accommodate an entire multi-role brigade on a single site, we will nevertheless want units to be located near enough to each other to use common training grounds and make formations as a brigade for training purposes. There is, therefore, a wide range of considerations. Is the new base big enough to accommodate the units? Does it have the right accommodation? How much would it cost to upgrade? How much new building will there have to be? What is access to training facilities like? Are the training facilities of the right type? How long will travelling distances to those facilities be? Where will the other units involved in training be? All those questions need addressing, and it will take time to balance them all and ensure that we get things right.

The hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway asked about schools, and we will, of course, give every consideration to the education requirements of future military communities. He also asked about accommodation, and I acknowledge that there is a lot more work to be done on improving service family accommodation. However, I urge hon. Members to recognise our desire in the SDSR to build a new employment model for members of the Army. We want more super garrisons, so that people who progress through the Army will be able to spend more of their career in one place, which would be more like the Navy and the RAF, and therefore to put down roots and find houses among the local population. As we go forward into future years, more of the Government’s effort will focus on ensuring that members of the armed forces can buy their own homes and settle in communities. Although I do not rule out building further family accommodation, we view that as the second-best option. The desire will be to help people settle into communities.

The hon. Gentleman also asked about the scrutiny process and how we will let communities know about decisions. It would be desirable to let some community leaders know before official announcements are made, but the only way to inform whole communities is through the media, so the hon. Gentleman’s argument becomes slightly circular.

On the economic impact being £90 million, I agree with the intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire, who said that replacing like with like has a neutral effect on the economy. I saw that in my own constituency, where the Marines replaced the RAF at Chivenor. The economy recovered fairly quickly, as did local services, schools and so on.

My hon. Friend has made a strong case on why Lyneham would be a good base for the Army. Many of his arguments have a great deal of merit. He mentioned the proximity to other Army units in Wiltshire and to Salisbury plain, and those are good arguments, as well as reasons why Lyneham is in quite a strong position as we look at the different bases.

The Opposition spokesman asked for guidance on how the Government’s thinking is going. My point about multi-role brigades and the need for units that will make formations together to be within easy reach of each other is one of the factors, and the military’s footprint across the different parts of the UK will be the other. One point that I would make about Salisbury plain, however, is that we must be realistic about its capacity to absorb a huge increase in the amount of Army training that goes on there.

The House has had debates about various other RAF bases. Obviously, every community is inclined to look at the worst-case scenario, but I reassure hon. Members that no decisions have been made yet, and we will continue to look at the whole issue with an open mind. Today has been a useful opportunity for the Wiltshire community to make particular local points. It has been useful to hear from the neighbours of my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire about the impact on the wider Wiltshire economy, which I am well aware of. One way or the other, I travel through Wiltshire twice a week. My wife’s family are from North Wiltshire and are still there, so I am familiar with the locality, and I can see the advantages of RAF Lyneham and the impact that it has on the community.

We must look beyond the local considerations, base by base, to the wider defence picture. We need to make the best use of our existing assets in the UK. I do not want to mislead Wiltshire Members into thinking that there is necessarily a future defence use for Lyneham at the moment—it is too soon to say that, because there is still a lot of work to do. In the mean time, we continue to make plans for the disposal of Lyneham. We shall, however, as I have said, try to put all the local communities out of their agony as soon as we can. We shall work with other Departments, devolved Administrations—where appropriate—and local authorities to ensure that our plans can be implemented with the least possible disruption for the communities affected.

As they were in the SDSR, our decisions must be objective, unsentimental and based on the military advice that we receive about what is best for the armed forces. We shall also have to look at what provides the best value for the taxpayer, and we shall, of course, consider the impact on communities and regional economies as we balance those factors. We must limit our resources to where they are most needed.

Special Representative to Gibraltar

Nick Harvey Excerpts

Wednesday 26th January 2011 Written Statements

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

I am pleased to announce today the appointment of the hon. Member for Epping Forest (Mrs Laing) as special representative to Gibraltar for defence.

The strategic defence and security review reaffirmed the importance of the permanent joint operating base in Gibraltar, which provides the armed forces with the ability to deploy force around the world and respond to changing strategic circumstances.



The hon. Lady’s role as special representative will be to work with the Government of Gibraltar, the Ministry of Defence and Commander British Forces Gibraltar on a range of issues connected with the continued presence of the permanent joint operating base.

She will also work closely with the Governor of Gibraltar, whose constitutional responsibilities include defence and internal security and external affairs.

The special representative may also undertake additional defence tasks by agreement with the Ministry of Defence.

The hon. Lady has agreed that she will resign as chair of the all-party parliamentary Gibraltar group.

RAF Leuchars

Nick Harvey Excerpts

Tuesday 25th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

I commend my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell) for initiating this debate on the future of RAF Leuchars which, as the House will understand, is a subject of great importance to his constituency and more widely. My right hon. and learned Friend knows Leuchars very well, and I hope that during his visit yesterday with the Secretary of State for Scotland he saw once more what a fantastic job our personnel are doing.

I put on record my thanks to all those who work at RAF Leuchars and to the local community who have, over the years, given such strong support to the station, the RAF and the nation. I know this support is appreciated by all who are serving at the base.

RAF Leuchars has a long and honourable history. Aircraft from Leuchars have policed UK airspace for nearly 60 years, demonstrating the ability to intercept unidentified aircraft and thereby provide an effective deterrent. Given RAF Leuchars’ history and contribution to defence, it is understandable that my right hon. and learned Friend has spoken so passionately about its retention, both here in Parliament and in representations to me and to the Secretary of State.

In October, we published the strategic defence and security review, which was based on two clear priorities: supporting our mission in Afghanistan and setting the path to a coherent and affordable defence capability in 2020 and beyond. This took place against the Government’s clear determination to address the unprecedented fiscal deficit that we inherited. Every Department has had to make a contribution, and the Ministry of Defence is playing its part, but because of the priority that we place on security, the defence budget is making a more modest contribution to deficit reduction than many other Departments. Even so, this has regrettably meant tough decisions. It is painful, but we have to make sacrifices to get the economy and the defence programme back on track.

Our fleet of Harrier and Tornado air defence and ground attack aircraft have performed magnificently over 30 years, but those aircraft risk becoming outdated as threats continue to become more varied and sophisticated, and maintenance of the fleets will become an increasing challenge, so the decisions to retire the Harriers and to reduce the number of Tornados were difficult, but we have to focus resources where they are most needed now—in support of our current operations.

The RAF plans to make a transition to a fast-jet force comprising the Typhoon and the joint strike fighter by the end of the decade. This makes both operational and economic sense. We know from our work on the SDSR that RAF Kinloss and two other bases will no longer be needed by the RAF. Public and parliamentary attention has focused on the consequences for Tornado ground attack bases at RAF Lossiemouth in Moray and RAF Marham in Norfolk, and the Typhoon and Tornado fighter base at RAF Leuchars.

Today, RAF Leuchars’ mission is to deliver and maintain UK quick reaction alert (interceptor) north, concurrent with the growth of Typhoon, while supporting other military operations. The delivery of the northern element of quick reaction alert is RAF Leuchars’ top priority and requires Typhoon and Tornado F3 fighter aircraft to hold high alert to scramble and intercept unidentified aircraft approaching UK airspace. RAF Leuchars is geographically well located for the delivery of QRA operations. However, it may be possible to mount northern QRA from another location. Lossiemouth and Leeming in north Yorkshire would be possible options.

As well as the support for RAF Leuchars offered by my right hon. and learned Friend this evening, I have had similar representations from the hon. Member for Moray (Angus Robertson) regarding RAF Kinloss and RAF Lossiemouth, and from my hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss) regarding RAF Marham. It is essential to stress once again to the House that a decision on which of these bases will no longer be required by the RAF should not be taken to mean that they will no longer be required for defence purposes. We are now taking forward work to analyse the basing and estate consequences of the SDSR in their entirety, and to develop a coherent plan for the future of the whole defence estate. This piece of work goes well beyond the bases directly affected by the SDSR. For example, the Prime Minister has announced our intention to accelerate the rebasing of the Army from Germany, which must also be taken into account, along with the greater efficiencies that must be made through broader estate rationalisation.

The Ministry of Defence will need to determine what makes the most sense for the structure of our armed forces, including where they are based, where they need to train and operate from and the need to ensure value for money for the British taxpayer. Contrary to media speculation, no matter how well informed Members might have believed it to be, no decisions have been taken on our future basing requirements beyond those I have outlined. It will take time to work out which bases we will retain and the uses to which they will be put.

We know that these are important decisions and that we must get them right. The Ministry of Defence has been clear, and I repeat, that we do not expect that work to be concluded for some time yet, but we hope it will be by the summer. I know and regret that that means uncertainty for the people and communities concerned, but we will not rush to a conclusion without deep and proper analysis. As the SDSR states, we will aim to do so in a way that is sensitive to economic and social pressures and the needs of our people and their families.

We also want to ensure that any decisions fully take into consideration the implications for Tornado personnel operating in Afghanistan over the coming year and for their families. We are consulting other Departments, the Scottish Government, local communities and relevant agencies, as appropriate, to manage the local impact of our decisions. We must do further work to establish the detail of how to progress, but I am determined that at the end of the process the United Kingdom will have a coherent plan to deliver an estate that supports the capabilities we need to keep our people safe, meet our responsibilities to our allies and friends and secure our national interests.

As they were in the SDSR, our decisions have to be objective, unsentimental and based on the military advice we receive. I stress again that the military considerations are paramount among the factors that we will consider. We need to focus finite resources where they are most needed. We know that the RAF will be smaller and will inevitably need fewer flying stations. Although it will become leaner, we can maximise investment in new aircraft and also assure full support to current and contingent operations. The transition to the combined fast-jet fleet of joint strike fighters and Typhoon will certainly provide the RAF with world-class capability for the future.

[Thomas Docherty]

Will the Minister give way?

[Nick Harvey]

I think that I might be about to answer the point that the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty) wishes to raise. My right hon. and learned Friend has called on the Government to base our decisions on military necessity, the reality of the public purse and the socio-economic impacts on the areas affected, and I assure him that that is precisely what we will do. I have chosen carefully the order in which I put those criteria: the military considerations come first. They must be in line with economic considerations, but we are in no way immune to the wider impact that those decisions will have and, of course, and will listen to representations from Members from both sides of the House on the impact they will have on communities. All three factors will be taken into consideration. I think that that was the point that the hon. Gentleman wished to raise.

[Thomas Docherty]

I am grateful for the Minister’s clarification. Am I correct in thinking that there is perhaps a fourth factor that should be seen as part of the whole discussion, which is the consideration given to what other uses the surplus bases could be turned?

[Nick Harvey]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that the other military uses to which bases can be put are part and parcel of the decision making, but I think that he is wrong to view that as a fourth factor. They are absolutely part and parcel of the military considerations that will inform us first and foremost, and of the economic considerations that will flow from that. Indeed, they will have considerable socio-economic impacts on the communities in each case. The SDSR is a process that will transform our armed forces to meet the challenges of the future. That includes the defence estate. We will now press on with that work.

Question put and agreed to.

Air Force: Scotland

Nick Harvey Excerpts

Tuesday 18th January 2011 Ministerial Corrections

[Angus Robertson]

To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how much his Department has spent on redevelopment work at each Royal Air Force base in Scotland in each of the last 10 years; and what estimate he has made of his Department's likely expenditure on such work in each of the next five years.

[Official Report, 16 December 2010, Vol. 520, c. 891W.]

Letter of correction from Mr Nick Harvey:

An error has been identified in the written answer given to the hon. Member for Moray (Angus Robertson) on 16 December 2010.

The full answer given was as follows:

[Nick Harvey]

The expenditure on redevelopment (defined as capital expenditure and minor new works) for the major RAF stations in the UK since financial year 2006-07 is shown in the following table:

[Nick Harvey]

The expenditure on redevelopment (defined as capital expenditure and minor new works) for the major RAF stations in the UK since financial year 2006-07 is shown in the following table:

Continuity of Education Allowance

Nick Harvey Excerpts

Thursday 16th December 2010 Written Statements

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

As announced following the strategic defence and security review, the Ministry of Defence is reviewing the broad range of allowances paid to service personnel. Work is ongoing to define fully the package of changes, but we are now able to announce some changes to the continuity of education allowance (CEA).

The Government place a very high priority on the welfare of service personnel and their families. Due to the requirements of service, some personnel relocate frequently, and it is important to ensure that their children are not disadvantaged by this requirement and have continuity of education. This continuity is not achievable through the day school sector for service personnel whose children accompany them on necessary relocations both at home and overseas. The importance of the allowance in supporting accompanied service and in enabling the armed forces to deploy to meet service needs is well understood. Nevertheless, it represents a significant investment, around £180 million per annum, to support some 5,500 personnel, fewer than 3% of the total number of service personnel. In the current fiscal climate, we must be sure that this expenditure is fully justified. I am therefore leading a review of CEA.

The review will consider the fundamental rationale for the allowance, look at alternatives, including a lesser reliance on independent schools, and at the justification for the current set of entitlements. Longer-term work on the development of a new employment model for service personnel is also likely to impact on the requirement for this allowance, and the review will consider what this might imply. The review will involve consultation with the service community, families federations and those outside who have an interest. I want to keep the period of uncertainty about the future of CEA to a minimum and intend to announce the conclusions of the review in the spring. Any changes will be promulgated well before they are implemented.

In parallel with this review we have put in place some immediate changes to the detailed rules on eligibility and payment structures for CEA and the governance of claims for the allowance. These changes should reduce our expenditure on the allowance by over £20 million per annum. The changes reflect the fundamental justification for the allowance—a commitment on the part of the individual to accompanied service. The most significant of these changes therefore involves withdrawing eligibility for CEA from personnel who serve unaccompanied by their families in some locations (principally but not exclusively MOD London) and in sea-going assignments. Appropriate transitional arrangements have been put in place to ensure individuals who are currently drawing CEA under these 'involuntary separation’ rules will not be unfairly disadvantaged.

Call-Out Order (Iraq/Afghanistan)

Nick Harvey Excerpts

Thursday 16th December 2010 Written Statements

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

With the expiry of the call-out order made on 5 January 2010, a new order has been made under section 56(1)(a) of the Reserve Forces Act 1996 to enable reservists to continue to be called out into service in support of operations in the region of Iraq and the Gulf

The new order is effective until 4 January 2012, small numbers of reservists continue to be required to support operations in the region and some 44 are currently called out and serving, of whom 20 are in the region.

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Harvey Excerpts

Monday 13th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Angie Bray (Ealing Central and Acton) (Con)]

3. What timetable he has set for the decommissioning of Harrier jets.

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

The strategic defence and security review published on 19 October 2010 stated that the Harrier fleet would be withdrawn from service in 2011. We have brought this date forward to coincide with the cessation of flying. The Harrier fleet will now be retired from service with the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force on 15 December 2010.

[Angie Bray]

I was lucky enough to sit in the cockpit of a Harrier jet when I was working for the British Forces Broadcasting Service in Gibraltar some years ago. The jets are fantastic pieces of kit. Does the Minister agree that the Harrier jets and their pilots have performed a great service for this country? Will he also update us on the training programme for the joint strike fighter, which is the replacement?

[Nick Harvey]

It is a pleasure to echo the hon. Lady’s words in paying tribute to all who have served with the Harrier, in both the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force, and in complimenting the Harrier itself, which, in its day, was a much-admired and, indeed, groundbreaking piece of engineering. [Interruption.] I am sorry; I had forgotten the hon. Lady’s question. Training for the joint strike fighter is already under way. Indeed, it will continue throughout the next few years, increasing its momentum considerably as we get into the second half of the coming decade, because of the necessity to bring the JSF into service in 2019. The intense training period will run for several years ahead of that, but the training itself has already begun.

[Michael Dugher (Barnsley East) (Lab)]

The Minister for the Armed Forces said in an interview on 9 November that the Government would save more money by scrapping the Harrier than by scrapping the Tornado, yet the Minister responsible for defence equipment, the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire (Peter Luff), said in a subsequent written answer that the cost of supporting the Harrier to 2018 would have been £0.7 billion, whereas the cost of the Tornado over the next 10 years would be £3.1 billion. However, Lord Astor put the figure at £4.8 billion. Does that not show that there is not only a capability gap, in the words of the Secretary of State, but a credibility gap, too?

[Nick Harvey]

I do not believe that the hon. Gentleman is comparing like with like in those figures, but in any case, the military grounds for the choice were straightforward. It would not have been possible for the Harrier to go back into service in Afghanistan because of the run-down of the Harrier fleet under the previous Administration. Furthermore, the Tornado has a considerably greater range of capabilities, in terms of its range and performance, weapons payload and reconnaissance capabilities. The decision was taken on the basis of military advice.

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

4. What plans he has for the disposal of RAF Bicester.

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

RAF Bicester has been in disposal for some time, and it would not make practical or economic sense to withdraw it from that process now. Because the wider estate rationalisation work that is under way is a complex piece of work that will take some time to complete, where it is sensible to do so, we will allow normal disposal business to continue.

[Tony Baldry]

Can my hon. Friend explain to the chief executive of Defence Estates that RAF Bicester has absolutely no commercial value? It is a combination of a number of historic listed buildings, a runway surrounded by ammunition dumps that have the same statutory listing as Stonehenge and a grass airfield riven by Crichel Down disputes. Defence Estates has been trying to market RAF Bicester for several years now, yet absolutely no one has shown any interest in it because it has no commercial value. In the meantime, all that happens is that those wonderful listed buildings rot. That is a dereliction of duty, so can my hon. Friend get a grip with the chief executive of Defence Estates, so that RAF Bicester can be transferred to those in Bomber Command Heritage and others who would like to put it to good, heritage use?

[Nick Harvey]

I detect that my hon. Friend has a greater familiarity with the history than I do; suffice to say that whatever the history, it is now understood by Defence Estates. It has now been concluded that the site can be disposed of, and the accounts and views of former owners, among others, are being considered. When disposing of such defence assets, it is essential that competence and experience in dealing with historic buildings be taken into account. Any idea that the site had any significant commercial value has, I think, passed.

[Mr Speaker]

It is always a pleasure to listen to the hon. Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry), but may I gently say that we must now make a bit of progress?

--- Later in debate ---

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

12. What recent steps his Department has taken to reduce the risk of cyber-attacks on the defence estate; and if he will make a statement.

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

As we set out in the strategic defence and security review, we attach a high priority to the cyber-defence of our systems. The Government have placed a renewed focus on that threat. We have recognised attacks through cyber-space as a tier 1 risk to national security and put an extra £650 million in place to enhance our protection. There are technical and procedural measures in place to protect MOD systems from cyber-attack and to ensure we can mitigate the impact of those attacks. The House will understand if I do not comment further on the detail of those measures.

[Robert Halfon]

I thank my hon. Friend for his reply. Following the welcome Stuxnet viral attack on the Iranian nuclear facility, what steps is the Ministry of Defence taking to avoid a similar assault on our internet infrastructure?

[Nick Harvey]

Our cyber-defences are regularly tested by intruders, and we are confident in our defences. The threat, of course, is changing in extent and complexity, which requires continual improvements in our security measures and novel approaches to deal with the more sophisticated threats.

[James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con)]

Recent news reports have indicated that cyber-attacks by WikiLeaks on critical national infrastructure are only likely to grow. Does the Minister agree that we must involve the private sector in ensuring that we can be ahead of the game when it comes to our cyber-security?

[Nick Harvey]

Yes. We are committed to working closely with the private sector in defence not only of our own systems but of those across Government. Many are, of course, provided by the private sector, so it is essential that we have the strongest possible partnership with it.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

13. What recent progress has been made on the transition towards Afghan-led security and the withdrawal of UK forces from Afghanistan.

--- Later in debate ---

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

19. What effects the redundancies in the armed forces announced in the strategic defence and security review will have on standing commitments.

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

The strategic defence and security review sets out the requirements for the armed forces’ contribution to standing commitments and identifies the restructured forces we will need over the next 10 years to meet them. Changes to the armed forces will not affect our non-discretionary standing commitments.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

In respect of the cancellation of the Nimrod mark IV maritime patrol aircraft, does the Minister agree with the First Sea Lord, who said earlier this month that he was “very uncomfortable” about it and that

“I don’t welcome the loss of the Nimrod”?

Are there any plans to replace the Nimrod and is it acceptable to make such cuts to our capability when military personnel are so concerned?

[Nick Harvey]

I entirely agree, as do all Ministers, with the discomfort that the First Sea Lord feels about this; the decision not to bring the Nimrod MRA4 into service was very difficult. We will have to bear some risk—it would be wrong to claim otherwise—but we will mitigate that risk by using other assets in the meantime, just as the previous Government had embarked on doing.

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

22. What recent discussions his Department has had with representatives of the defence industry on the effects of the reductions in expenditure proposed in the strategic defence and security review.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

T2. 23 Engineer Regiment is based in my constituency and is one of a number of regiments currently serving in Helmand. The Minister has already taken the opportunity to pay tribute to all those involved in Operation Herrick 13, including our Danish and Estonian friends, but will he also pay tribute to the families of our brave servicemen and women who provide such strong emotional support, especially in this Christmas season?

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

I have great pleasure in doing exactly that and paying tribute to all those who are serving in Afghanistan, who will be away from their families over Christmas. Our thoughts are with the families as well. On the contribution being made in Helmand by our friends and allies from Denmark and Estonia, they have both been terrific and resolute allies to us and it will be my pleasure to visit both countries later this week to thank them for what they are doing and to discuss future co-operation.

[Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)]

On “The Andrew Marr Show” yesterday, the former Prime Minister, John Major, said

“what I am wary of is giving advance notice of leaving. If you were Taliban what would you do on hearing that troops were leaving in 12 to 24 months? I think you would just wait until they had gone. We have to be clear what we are doing and”

why we are doing it.

Can the Secretary of State tell us why he thinks the former Prime Minister, who is supportive of the current Prime Minister, feels the need to say that now?

--- Later in debate ---

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

I think we can all agree on the overriding importance that this House places on the defence training needs of the whole of the UK armed forces tri-services. In a debate last week, we tried to get an answer to the question of what is the future of the defence training academy at St Athan after the news of its cancellation, but answer came there none. Can the Minister now give us an update with some clarity on what is the future for St Athan?

[Nick Harvey]

The defence training requirement across the three services is being reviewed in the light of the collapse of the project at St Athan. We are identifying possible sites either for tri-service training or taking the three services separately, and we will make an announcement when we have concluded that work in the spring.

[Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)]

T10. Will my right hon. Friend update the House on Britain’s role and strategic involvement in the middle east following the talks held in Manama?

RAF Marham

Nick Harvey Excerpts

Thursday 11th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey)]

I commend my hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss) on initiating this debate on the future of RAF Marham which, as the House will understand, is of great importance to her constituency. I thank her for her words of praise for the men and women of our armed forces and the Ministry of Defence civilians who support them. This is a special day for our armed forces. It is a day when the whole nation joins together to remember their sacrifices, and I paid my respects at the national memorial arboretum this morning. The armed forces memorial is sobering, as engraved upon it are the names of more than 15,000 of those who made the ultimate sacrifice for this country, and more names are being added each year. I cannot pay high enough tribute to our armed forces, to what they have done in the past, to what they are doing in the present and to the remarkable professionalism, courage and resolve that I know they will continue to show in the future.

Given the subject of this debate, I should like to pay particular tribute to all those who work at RAF Marham and to the local community, who have, over the years, given such strong support to the station, the RAF and the nation. As my hon. Friend said, RAF Marham has a long and honourable history. During the second world war, it operated as a bomber station and in the post-war period it has also acted as a base for air-to-air refuelling aircraft. Today, it is the RAF’s largest fast-jet station and it is home to a significant element of the RAF’s offensive air capability, operating four Tornado GR4 squadrons, which carry out attack and reconnaissance roles. Other force elements based at RAF Marham include the Tactical Imagery Intelligence Wing, 3 Force Protection Wing Headquarters and 93 Expeditionary Armament Squadron. RAF Marham is also a centre of engineering excellence, providing engineering support to the Tornado GR4 fleet. All together, RAF Marham is one of the largest employers in Norfolk, with a total of more than 4,000 service personnel, MOD civilians, and contractors working there.

Last month, we published the strategic defence and security review, which was based on two clear priorities: protecting our mission in Afghanistan; and setting the path to a coherent and affordable defence capability in 2020 and beyond. The Government have made clear our determination to address the unprecedented fiscal deficit we inherited. Every Department has had to make its own contribution and the MOD is playing its part. Because of the priority we place on security, the defence budget is making a more modest contribution to deficit reduction relative to many other Departments, but even so, regrettably, this has meant tough decisions. The SDSR process aims to bring defence plans, commitments and resources into balance. It is painful, but we have to make sacrifices to get the economy and the defence programme back on track.

Our fleet of Harrier and Tornado air defence and ground attack aircraft have performed magnificently over the past 30 years, but those aircraft risk becoming outdated as threats continue to become more varied and sophisticated, and maintenance of the fleets will become an increasing challenge. So, RAF plans to make a transition to a fast-jet force comprising just the Typhoon and the joint strike fighter by 2021 make operational and economic sense. The decisions to retire our Harriers and to reduce the number of Tornados involved very difficult choices, which we had to make to focus resources where they are most needed: in support of current operations. The Tornado GR4 force, even at its reduced size, will be significantly larger than the current Harrier force. So retaining the more capable Tornado allows continuous fast-jet support to forces in Afghanistan and the ability to support concurrent operations. That would not be possible if Harrier were retained and Tornado retired.

We know from our work on the SDSR that RAF Kinloss and two other bases will no longer be required by the RAF. I can understand that that will be cause for some concern at Marham, as it is elsewhere in the country with ties to the Air Force. Of course, this is not just about fast jets—nor is it even just about the RAF. The decision on Tornado basing will have to take into account wider RAF and defence requirements. For example, the Prime Minister announced our intention to accelerate the re-basing of the Army from Germany, which also needs to be taken into account.

The Ministry of Defence will need to determine what makes the most sense for the structure of our armed forces, including where they are based, where they need to train and operate from and ensuring value for money for the British taxpayer. However, no decisions have been taken on our future basing requirements beyond those that I have just outlined. It will take time to work out which of the bases we retain and the uses to which they are put. In that work, we will also look beyond those bases directly affected by the SDSR decisions.

My hon. Friend has reminded us of the importance of RAF Marham as the Tornado force headquarters and of the wider economic and social position of RAF Marham in the south-west Norfolk community. We have also had similar representations from my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell) regarding RAF Leuchars and from the hon. Member for Moray (Angus Robertson) regarding RAF Lossiemouth. The MOD has also received submissions from the Moray taskforce. The thousands of people who marched in Lossiemouth on Sunday reminded us, if we needed reminding, of the strength of feeling these decisions generate in local communities.

So we know that these are important decisions and that we must get them right. I know—and regret—that this means uncertainty for the people and communities concerned. My hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk made that point powerfully, and it is understood, but I emphasise to her again that there is no proposal to close RAF Marham. The issue has to be seen in the context that I have just described.

We will not rush to a conclusion without proper analysis. It will take time for us to reach the right decision. As the SDSR states, we will aim to do so in a way that is sensitive to economic and social pressures and the needs of our people and their families. We also want to make sure that any decisions fully consider the implications for Tornado personnel operating in Afghanistan over the coming year as well as their families. It is therefore unlikely that any decisions on Tornado basing will be taken before next spring at the earliest. We will of course listen to any representation from local communities as we work through our decision. As and when it proves necessary, we will work with all the relevant agencies and the local communities to manage the local impact of our decisions.

The SDSR announcement marked the beginning, not the end, of a process that will transform our armed forces to meet the challenges of the future. That includes decisions on all military estates, such as RAF Marham. Further work is now needed to establish how we will deliver the SDSR’s findings.

[Thomas Docherty]

The hon. Gentleman is a decent Minister. Will he assure all the communities affected that the Ministry will work quickly and that when the decision is made, the communities will be the first to know, so that the media do not—through whatever process—discover before the three or four affected communities?

[Nick Harvey]

I certainly give the hon. Gentleman a commitment that we will try to make sure that that happens in an orderly fashion, as he describes. I must stress, however, that as this process involves an estate review across defence, more than three or four communities will have an interest. It is a very big piece of work. Of course we will endeavour to do things quickly but, as I have stressed, there will be a detailed and comprehensive study across not only the whole of the RAF but defence as a whole. It will consider the issues I have discussed, including where units that come back from Germany might be based. We will do it as quickly as we can, but I do not want to mislead him into thinking that that means he will get an outcome any time soon.

We need to do further work to establish the detail of how to progress, but I am determined that at the end of the process, the United Kingdom will have the capabilities it needs to keep our people safe, to meet our responsibilities to our allies and friends and to secure our national interests. As they were in the SDSR, our decisions have to be objective, unsentimental and based on the military advice we receive. We need to focus finite resources where they are most needed. We know that the armed forces will be smaller and that, as the RAF reduces its number of fast jets, it will inevitably need fewer flying stations. Although the RAF might become leaner, we can maximise investment in new aircraft, as well as assuring full support to current and contingent operations. The transition to the combined fast-jet fleet of joint strike fighters and Typhoon will certainly provide the RAF with world-class capability for the future. My hon. Friend has called on the Government to base their decisions on military necessity, the realities of the public purse and the socio-economic impact on the areas affected and I assure her that that is precisely what we intend to do.

Question put and agreed to.