Coastguard Service

Mike Hancock Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd February 2011 Westminster Hall

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

Order. I remind Members that 12 Members want to take part in the debate. Interventions must be short and to the point otherwise Members will be very disappointed. If the intervention is really necessary, fine. If not, I urge Members to be respectful of other Members who want to speak in this debate.

[Anne Marie Morris]

I entirely endorse what my hon. Friend is saying about her concerns with regard to Falmouth. If Brixham, my coastguard station, goes, Falmouth and Southampton, which is 200 miles away, will have to cope with something like 1,500 incidents, if last year’s figures are typical.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning)]

I will not interrupt my hon. Friend for too long, but the assertion that the response time will be increased by 10 minutes is wrong. I do not know where that information comes from. The response time is five minutes now and it will be five minutes in future—that is important.

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

Thank you for that clarification.

[Sarah Newton]

I am sure that everybody listening to this debate greatly appreciates that intervention and the reassurance given by my hon. Friend the Minister, because, as he knows from his experience in the fire service, minutes of delay in an emergency cost lives. That is a very welcome confirmation from the Minister, because that sort of delay—

[Sarah Newton]

I will just make a bit more progress.

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

Order. I ask Members to be a bit more careful and respectful of the other Members who want to speak. I want to get as many people in to speak as possible. The hon. Lady has now been speaking for 20 minutes and it will be difficult to get many Members in if the winding-up speeches start 20 minutes before the end of the debate. So please respect that.

[Sarah Newton]

Thank you, Mr Hancock.

Yesterday the MCA team told me that the location of someone calling 999 for assistance using either a land-line or a mobile phone could be identified by whichever coastguard answers the phone in any part of the UK, by using the latest technology. However, I remain sceptical of such claims and I worry about an ever-growing reliance on technology. How resilient are those networks?

During the same conversation with the MCA team yesterday, I was slightly reassured by the fact that the MCA proposals include the plan to test rigorously and evaluate each step of the new system before proceeding to the next stage. Those “gateways” acknowledge that the proposals will need real-life testing before implementation. Much more needs to be done to demonstrate the veracity of the claims made for the technology as well as the impact on response times. As the Minister knows, minutes of delay cost lives.

Although I have had only a short time to raise a few issues with the Minister today, I hope that he can reassure the people of Cornwall that he values the work of the Falmouth coastguard and, furthermore, that the views of the Falmouth coastguard and those of the Falmouth harbour commissioners, harbourmasters and mariners alike, who all have a great deal of experience of dealing with the coastguard service and who are all deeply concerned by the downgrading of the Falmouth coastguard station, are fully taken into account by the MCA consultation review team. Coastguards have publicly expressed grave concerns about the impact of the current proposals on safety and, quite understandably, there is a great deal of public opposition to the proposals to downgrade the Falmouth station and the other stations about which we have heard from Members today.

As I draw my remarks to a close, I want to reiterate one simple important point. All the aims of modernisation, which will provide a resilient 21st century coastguard service, of which the UK can continue to be proud, can be delivered with Falmouth’s coastguard remaining the jewel in the crown of the MCA, as the world-leading international marine and rescue centre.

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[Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)]

I have been in another Committee, which is why I was not here earlier. This issue is important to my constituents and to the constituents of many hon. Members who are here in Westminster Hall today. Of course, my concern is particularly about the Forth coastguard station, which is on the other side of Scotland to my hon. Friend’s constituency. The Forth station is also proposed for closure. There is also a sub-centre that covers my constituency’s shoreline.

In the firth of Forth, we have three major oil and liquid gas terminals. We also have a new bridge and a number of anchorages, and a new wind farm is being built. Does my hon. Friend agree that the firth of Forth is another area where safety means that closure should not go ahead and that having one coastguard station for the whole of Scotland is not acceptable?

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

Order. I think that you are pushing your luck there with that one. That intervention was more like a speech.

[Katy Clark]

It is far from clear what criteria have been used to develop these proposals. I hope that, when the Minister responds to the debate, he will address that issue. It has been suggested that the Clyde coastguard station has been proposed as one of the stations that will close, because its lease is due to expire in the next few months and it is therefore cheaper to close that particular station than, for example, the station in Aberdeen, where the costs of closure would be extensive.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

Order. The Front Benchers have decided that they will take no more than 10 minutes each, so if everyone who wants to speak keeps to about four minutes, everyone who is here will get to speak.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

I shall do away with the niceties, apart from congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) on securing this exceptionally important debate. However, I will say something else that is a bit of a nicety—I do not want to suggest that the Minister is in any way committed to increasing risk for the people of this nation. He and the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick) both served in the fire service, and they are absolutely committed to the safety of one and all in a far stronger way than I have ever been.

I welcome several of the proposals and believe that change is required. I recognise that changes in technology and the evolving nature of our seas mean that the status quo is not always necessary. I was surprised to discover, as a result of the consultation, that most of our coastguard stations are linked only to each other, and particularly that Thames and Yarmouth are not linked. Those are the two coastguard stations that cover my constituency, with the Yarmouth centre covering down to about Southwold, and the Thames centre at Walton-on-the-Naze coming up the other way. I welcome changes that mean that coastguard centres will be working together, regardless of numbers. I also welcome the changes that will enhance the volunteer side, and I understand that aspects of pay might be being looked at, so that we can invest in the people who remain in the coastguard service.

I want to point out a few issues that relate to my constituency and to try to get some clarity from the Minister. The consultation document discusses how the seas are becoming more congested and how ships are getting larger. It talks about oil carriers, a busier coastline and extreme weather conditions that lead to increased coastal flooding. All those issues apply fully and squarely to my constituency, where we have the largest container port in the country at Felixstowe and, as of April 2011, the only area within inshore coastal waters where ship-to-ship oil transfers are allowed. I recognise that 70% of incidents involve leisure vessels—a high proportion of activities up and down the coast, and in and out of the creeks and estuaries, are leisure based—in addition to incidents in the shipping lanes around Felixstowe.

I am interested to understand how the decisions about which centres should remain open were made. Yarmouth and Thames both respond to a large number of incidents, of which there are more than in Dover. Dover also has responsibility for the Dover strait and the Channel Navigation Information Service. I would have thought that the number of incidents handled by each centre would have come into the review, but I do not see how that has been addressed. On a broader point about the Border Agency, I would have thought that the coastguard service would be one of the links in trying to ensure that we have safer borders. In the consultation, there is a focus on allowing senior managers to free up time to have such a relationship with other partners. The police are specifically mentioned, and I assume that that relates not only to people’s safety but to crime and other such activities.

The narrative from my constituents includes the assumption that the closure of the coastguard centres means that there will be no full-time paid coastguards delivering the service. It would be helpful if the Minister were to clarify whether in areas where coastguard centres are to be closed, we will rely solely on volunteers. If that is the case, I will be genuinely concerned. I share the coastguard at Lowestoft, and its branch at Southwold, with my neighbour, my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous), and the teams there are about 60% full. Southwold has five vacancies and Lowestoft seven, which means that we have only three people on the Southwold team.

The consultation document also mentions some of the roles that the coastguard will have in the future—vessel traffic monitoring, for example. It talks about how automatic identification systems provide

“precise real time data up to about 30 miles from the coast”,

which is welcome, but it also states:

“In the coming years the development of Long Range Identification and Tracking (LRIT) will mean that ships can be tracked over much longer distances”.

It would be interesting to understand the time scale for that, and how it will fit into the role of vessel traffic monitoring. There is also the creation of counter-pollution officer roles, which all seem to be based in Southampton, and an understanding of some of the risk assessments undertaken would help us to see which parts of the country are perceived to have the greatest pollution challenges.

I come back to ship-to-ship transfers. I do not seek to use the debate to open up that issue, but when it was mentioned, Yarmouth coastguard agency was identified as the monitoring body.

I will finish here, Mr Hancock.

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

Thank you very much.

[Dr Coffey]

I appreciate that. I was one of the hon. Members who submitted a letter requesting to speak before the debate.

I would be grateful if the Minister were to clarify whether the response to incidents will be solely from volunteers, so that instead of having to resort to freedom of information requests we could provide more detailed information, by centre, on timing and number of incidents. I would also be grateful if he were to refer to the monitoring of ship-to-ship transfers.

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[Lady Hermon]

Let me tell hon. Members, and particularly the Minister, that it is rare for any subject to unite all the parties in Northern Ireland. We are talking about saving the one remaining coastguard in Northern Ireland, which is the only part of the United Kingdom that risks losing its coastguard service. I extended an invitation to the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister to make a joint visit to the station, and I am delighted to say that both accepted it warmly. The First Minister is from the Democratic Unionist party, the Deputy First Minister is from Sinn Fein and the hon. Lady is a member of the Social Democratic and Labour party, so this issue has united all parties. I hope that the Minister remembers that.

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

Order. Sylvia, you have a lot of charm, but you are pushing it to extremes.

[Lady Hermon]

Thank you, Mr Hancock. I take that as a compliment.

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

Yes, it is a compliment. Only you would have got away with that.

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. She is indeed correct.

The Northern Ireland coastguard service at Bangor provides a vital service to the fisheries and tourism sectors right from Lough Foyle to Carlingford lough. Axing such a service will put at risk not only livelihoods, but lives. The Government must not take for granted the courage of those who devote time to rescue efforts on our shores. Funding must be protected.

We must remember that the coastguard protects not only the coast, but, as the hon. Member for North Down has said, Lough Neagh, Lough Erne, inland fisheries and inland lakes. It also provides an inland mountain rescue service for the Mornes and the Sperrins, and it is the point of contact for all helicopter operations in Northern Ireland.

The current proposals will leave Northern Ireland without a full-time coastguard station. This front-line emergency service has saved countless lives since its establishment. In the past year alone, the Northern Ireland team has dealt with more than 700 incidents. For me, my constituents and all my colleagues in Northern Ireland, saving lives is paramount.

The document that has gone out to consultation proposes that the Belfast Lough station, which is based at Bangor, might become a part-time station or that it might close, in which case our nearest coastguard would be the part-time station in Liverpool. The nearest full-time station would be at Aberdeen, on the east coast of Scotland. Co-operation is certainly important. Our co-ordination with Scotland and the south of Ireland has been invaluable in saving lives in previous rescue missions. I support north-south co-operation.

[Ms Ritchie]

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman.

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

Order. We do not want a long debate about co-operation.

[Ian Paisley]

What an opportune time to get an intervention. In 1989, I was involved in an attempt to rescue two drowning children off the coast of Northern Ireland. They had been holidaying there, but, unfortunately, one of them died. However, if it had not been for the co-ordination that the hon. Lady has mentioned, there would have been a double tragedy. It is essential that people recognise and get to grips with the fact that Northern Ireland will be naked to the ravages of the sea if we do not properly protect our coastguard.

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[Mr MacNeil]

I am heartened to hear that Liverpool and Belfast are not accepting the framework that the MCA has given them to set them at each other’s throats. We have had the same situation between Stornoway and Shetland, and we are not accepting that, too. We in the Western Isles believe that Shetland should stay open 250 miles away because it is needed for the safety of mariners there. Stornoway should stay open as well. I am pleased that our message to the MCA is the same.

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

Order. Ms Ritchie, I urge you to watch the time.

[Ms Ritchie]

Thank you, Mr Hancock. I will do so.

Previous attempts by Governments to implement large-scale technological developments have frequently encountered delays and cost overruns. We must ensure that we do not lose our existing resources and that we do not rely on the hope that needs can be met by using new technologies alone. Indeed, the same technology on which the coastguard is meant to depend has just been discarded by the UK’s fire and rescue service, because it cannot rely on it. We risk people’s safety becoming dependent on information technology that has not yet been implemented and which has not even been designed. Let us have new technology by all means, but we should supplement it with local knowledge.

Finally, I hope that the Minister will see fit to ensure that the proposal for the Belfast coastguard station at Bangor is abandoned. I hope that the message goes home to him and the Department that Northern Ireland needs to retain its services. My colleagues in Northern Ireland and I represent all the Northern Ireland constituencies, and we wholeheartedly oppose any attempt to remove those services.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

Order. It is my intention to call Mr Gilbert, then Mr Owen and then Dr Wollaston. I will then try to fit everyone else in. Can we please give others the chance to make their contributions?

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[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) on securing this debate. I tried to secure it twice myself, so I am glad that somebody was successful. She mentioned Sir Alan Massey’s remarks about the time delay. In an interview with BBC South West, he confirmed that there would be a time delay. Will the Minister address that apparent anomaly between Sir Alan’s interview and what the hon. Lady said?

In his letter to me, the Minister said:

“You will be aware of the increasing levels of activity taking place on the coastline and waters of the UK.”

Many of the staff at Crosby coastguard station have highlighted the irony of that statement, given the apparent reduction in the number of coastguard stations.

In the brief time that I have left, I will describe a couple of key issues raised with me. On consultation, staff tell me that the ideas that they have brought up in the past have never been taken on board. They were concerned that the people who drew up the proposals lacked recent front-line experience, and they were very concerned that Liverpool coastguard station was not included in the original draft consultation document and that it was earmarked for closure. Belfast would have survived and Liverpool was added only in the final version, which tells us a lot about the intention. The expectation is that Liverpool’s closure is a done deal.

I will now allow the Front-Bench spokesmen to address the points that have been made. I urge the Minister to look at the issue again, go back to the drawing board and use recent front-line experience to come up with a set of proposals that, as well as using modern technology, recognise the vast experience and importance of local knowledge.

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

I apologise to hon. Members who have been trying to catch my eye. I would have liked to give everyone an opportunity to speak, but I now call Jim Fitzpatrick.

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[Jim Fitzpatrick]

My apologies. The hon. Gentleman is the Minister with responsibility for shipping, which is a very good place to be. He is doing a good job and I know that the shipping industry acknowledges that and respects him for his involvement, even though he has been in the position for less than a year. I am tempted to ask him whether he will make the same mistake as me on fire controls. That contract has been cancelled due to a number of issues. Does he, like several colleagues present, recognise a parallel between that and the proposals under discussion?

It is proposed that staff numbers will fall from 491 to 248. There is an historic question of underpayment of coastguards. Historically, many coastguards were recruited from former members of the Royal Navy or the merchant navy. They came with pensions and were able to be paid a little less than the going rate—certainly less than the other emergency services. That tradition has, of course, been outlived. It was one of the issues with which I grappled as a Minister and, I think, managed to solve with the support of the MCA and Department for Transport officials, whose service I commend—there are many excellent people in both organisations. We managed to persuade the Treasury that that issue needed to be looked at, and I would be interested to hear what discussions the Minister has had with the Treasury about it.

How many of those who lose their jobs does the Department estimate will receive compulsory redundancies? The savings are estimated to be £120 million over 25 years, as the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil)—or the Western Isles as the rest of us like to call it—said. The Lord Donaldson inquiry into the Braer disaster recommended an emergency towing vessel for Stornoway. It is suggested that, if that contract is abandoned, it would take 18 hours for a privately contracted vessel to arrive. That one incident involving the Braer cost £100 million, which will wipe out 25 years of savings if the Government proceed with their proposals. Does the Minister acknowledge the connection between emergency towing vessels and the coastguard proposals?

Much is made of volunteers and volunteering. We have a proud tradition in the UK, as do other countries, in that regard. However, as we have seen only today with the noble Lord Wei’s decision to cut his hours at the Cabinet Office from three to two days, volunteers can face problems in giving a commitment due to the pressures on family and business life.

We all acknowledge the need for deficit reduction after the global banking crisis. The real concern is that the Department seems to be going too far, too fast and too deep with these cuts, and the consultation, with which the Minister is encouraging everybody to get involved, will demonstrate whether that is the case.

In conclusion, shipping is pretty much invisible to most people, but it is absolutely critical to the UK, as has been articulated by many colleagues this afternoon. It generally does its job quietly and efficiently, which is to the huge credit of everybody involved in an industry that serves us so well. Safety for those involved and for the millions of recreational seafarers, citizens and visitors who enjoy our coastline is paramount. The proposals are causing serious concern among that whole community. As others have said, I am certain that we will return to the issue time and again, with more debates and more questions, in the months ahead. I look forward to hearing from the Minister to allow that debate to begin.

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

Before I call the Minister, it would be remiss of me not to apologise to those who did not get an opportunity to speak, and not to thank those who showed courtesy and played their part in making this a worthwhile debate. I hope that the debate’s message is not lost on the Minister or the usual channels: Members of this House expect and require a further debate on the issue sometime in the near future because, as has been demonstrated, it touches so many of them.

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[John McDonnell]

On a point of order, Mr Hancock. The Minister has made reference to the unions agreeing with his proposals in some form. I would not wish him to mislead the House. I chair the Public and Commercial Services Union group in Parliament. That group represents 500 members who will be affected. The unions have not supported these proposals and will not accept 220 jobs being cut, which they believe will put lives at risk.

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

That is not a point of order, Mr McDonnell, but an issue for debate. There are 30 seconds left.

[Mike Penning]

This is a very healthy debate. I have worked with the unions and sat down with them. They know that there needs to be change and they also know that there will be job losses. That was discussed before I became the Minister and since. A trade union dispute has gone on that has affected these wonderful volunteers for years. That has to stop.

I agree, Mr Hancock, that the matter needs further debate. My closing comments are these. The consultation is open. The matter is not actually decided. I will be in Belfast the week after next. I will be in Scotland. I should have been in Stornoway last week, but I could not go. I will do my best to go around, and my officials will be at the public meetings—

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

Order. I am sorry that I had to cut in on you, Minister. Can Members who are leaving do so quietly and quickly? We have a Division.

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On resuming—

[Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair)]

I am delighted to say that we can start in advance of 4.15 as most of the participants in the debate are in the room. It is a unique occasion to have a Liberal Democrat in the Chair, a Liberal Democrat as the Minister replying and a Liberal Democrat Member opening the debate. It must be a first.