Oral Answers to Questions

Matt Hancock Excerpts

Thursday 18th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con)]

4. What steps he is taking to encourage traineeships.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills (Matthew Hancock)]

Following the spending review, we have extended the traineeships programme to young people up to the age of 24. Yesterday, we published the framework for delivery, and the first traineeships will start next month. We have already had strong interest expressed from employers such as Mercedes and Brompton Bicycle Ltd. We very much look forward to taking the programme forward.

[Mark Menzies]

Skills delivery is at its best when it is led by employers and by businesses. Can my hon. Friend assure me that that will remain the case throughout?

[Matthew Hancock]

Absolutely. It is vital to make sure that the skills system is focused on the needs of employers so that people who go through that system go on to get an apprenticeship and a good job. That is exactly what the traineeship scheme is designed to achieve.

[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

The Government suggested that trainees might be eligible for jobseeker’s allowance while they are undertaking their traineeships. Has the Minister sorted out the details with the Department for Work and Pensions because, at the moment, someone studying for more than 15 hours a week would not be eligible for the benefit?

[Matthew Hancock]

The hon. Lady makes an important point because the link to the benefits system, particularly for those aged over 18 who are in traineeships, is vital. In the framework for delivery set out yesterday, she will have seen the details, ensuring that eligibility for JSA and eligibility to get a traineeship are aligned. Of course, with the introduction of universal credit and changes in the jobcentres, we are making it easier for people to get training while also looking for work. Work experience is a vital part of that and a vital part of traineeships.

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

Employers are being encouraged to provide travel support for young trainees. Will the Minister look closely at the issue of young people living in remote rural areas, and ensure that they, as well as those who happen to live near their employers, are given fair access to traineeships?

[Matthew Hancock]

Not only will I look at that issue closely but I have already done so, because it is a vital aspect of traineeships. Traineeships are there because far too many people leave school or college without the skills that they need to secure a job or apprenticeship. Of course we are reforming the school system to sort out that problem, but we must also ensure that everyone has an opportunity to acquire the character traits and skills that they need in order to get a job, and transport is a vital part of the practicalities of making that happen.

[Graeme Morrice (Livingston) (Lab)]

5. What steps he is taking to protect the universal service obligation under plans for the privatisation of Royal Mail.

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[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

9. What recent assessment he has made of the take-up of apprenticeships.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills (Matthew Hancock)]

There were 520,000 apprenticeship starts in the academic year 2011-12. That is almost double the number in 2010. Our priority is to make apprenticeships both widely available and the very best quality, rooting out poor provision and enforcing a minimum duration. As we speak, 750,000 people are on an apprenticeship, which is a record: it is more than at any time in our history.

[Mr Robertson]

I am grateful to the Minister for that response. As he knows, I have a lot of engineering companies in my constituency, the largest being GE Aviation, which has more than 100 apprentices. Nevertheless, those companies find it difficult to recruit young people. Is the Minister satisfied that schools have adequate incentives to promote the concept of apprenticeship schemes, and will he consider awarding them recognition status marks for each apprenticeship that is taken up?

[Matthew Hancock]

We introduced a new duty on schools to provide independent and impartial advice in September, and Ofsted is looking at, and will report on, how well that is being implemented. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend, who brings together companies in his constituency to promote skills and working together, so that even though companies compete locally and nationally with their products, they come together on the skills issue to make sure that they give new skills to young people, rather than poaching from each other.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

The Minister’s Department has found that one in five apprentices currently receives no training. There has also been a reported rise in employers’ non-compliance with the national minimum wage for apprentices. Does he agree that for apprenticeships to be of value, apprentices need decent training, and need to be paid a decent wage? What is his Department doing to ensure that that happens?

[Matthew Hancock]

Yes, I do, and we are taking action.

[Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)]

Will the Minister join me in welcoming the initiative of Worcestershire housing associations, which created an 18-to-30 apprenticeships and job fair, bringing together local employers and the National Apprenticeship Service? Does he agree that the huge increase in apprenticeship take-up is one of the reasons why youth unemployment in Worcester is down 30% from its peak under Labour?

[Matthew Hancock]

It is very good news that youth unemployment is falling—there was a 20,000 fall announced yesterday—but it is still too high, and there is still much more to do. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s work, and the work of others across the House, to make sure that apprenticeships and traineeships are available in future to help with that.

[Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab)]

Does not the Minister’s rhetoric on apprenticeships hit the buffers in reality? No amount of his crowing or tweeting alters the latest facts: there is a 13% drop in 16 to 18-year-olds starting apprenticeships, and a 6% drop across the board. He has failed to take up our plans to create thousands of new apprenticeships via Government procurement, and he has also failed to get a deal with Department for Work and Pensions Ministers. The Association of Colleges said yesterday that 14 to 19-year-olds taking up his new traineeships, so that they can move on to apprenticeships, are not likely to have any money to live on. When will he stop dithering and start delivering?

[Matthew Hancock]

We are delivering the new traineeships from next month. Given the need, after years of inaction, to bring together support for work experience and skills for those approaching the job market, I would have thought that the hon. Gentleman would welcome that. I would have thought that the Opposition would have supported the rise in the number of apprenticeships to record levels since the election.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

10. What the outcomes were of his Department’s summit meeting with payday lenders on 1 July 2013; and if he will make a statement.

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[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

13. What recent assessment he has made of the value of supply chains to the UK economy.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills (Matthew Hancock)]

In the UK and across the world, supply chains are diverse, complex and global. Their value is huge and their importance is vital. Support for supply chains is studded through our policy and underpinned by the industrial strategies.

[Neil Carmichael]

In contrast to the Labour Government, this Government are clearly doing something to build capacity in our supply chains. I welcome that and I see evidence of it in my constituency. May I stress the importance of making sure that supply chains are developed in our regions to ensure that we have a truly balanced economy, not just between manufacturing and services, but across our regions?

[Matthew Hancock]

Absolutely. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s work on promoting the importance of supply chains, not least because of the high proportion of manufacturing in his constituency. We will make sure that they stay at front and centre of what we do in the Department.

[Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)]

One of the biggest infrastructure projects in this country over the next 20 years will be the construction of High Speed 2. That, through the supply chain, has potential benefits for businesses and workers not just along the route of HS2, but throughout the entire UK. What steps is the Department taking to engage in discussion with the Department for Transport to ensure that those supply chain benefits are indeed available throughout the entire UK?

[Matthew Hancock]

There are continual discussions between the Department and the Department for Transport about making sure that great benefits accrue not only when we build important infrastructure, but during its construction. We must ensure that there is good value for money, but value for money should be considered in the broadest possible sense.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

14. What recent assessment he has made of the prospects for economic growth in the Humber sub-region.

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[Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op)]

There is considerable concern among the further education college sector about the potential low take-up of the post-24 advanced learning loans and the impact that that will have on people’s finances. What assessment has the Minister made of this issue, and what help will he give to those colleges, if indeed there is such a low take-up?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills (Matthew Hancock)]

Since we launched the loans in April, there has been a robust take-up, and we are working hard to ensure not only that colleges are aware of the opportunities presented by loans to help over-24s to learn at higher levels, but that people are aware of the opportunities available to improve their skills.

[Mr Speaker]

Sir Malcolm Bruce—not here.

EU-US Trade and Investment Agreement

Matt Hancock Excerpts

Thursday 18th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills (Matthew Hancock)]

It is a pleasure to wind up this debate. It has run over time, for which I apologise to hon. Members taking part in the next debate, but that is testament to the importance of the subject and the exceedingly high-quality contributions. More important than the quality of the rhetoric has been the unanimity of argument in favour of an EU-US trade deal. Of course important questions need to be addressed, and I will deal with as many of those as I can in the time available, but all speakers have been in favour, in principle, of pushing to make this deal happen, and that message should go out loud and clear from this House. As a passionate supporter of free trade, believing that free trade and capitalism has been the greatest force for prosperity ever invented by man, I am proud to be part of a political consensus in this country in favour of free trade. That is one of our great political and economic strengths.

On that note, I pay tribute to the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) and my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb), not only for securing this debate, but for starting up the all-party group on European Union-United States trade and investment to make sure that a forum is available for all Members to discuss the issues relating to the TTIP deal. The launch of the negotiations started last week, and they are a once-in-a-generation opportunity to secure the biggest bilateral trade agreement in the history of the world. As many hon. Members have said, it would bring significant economic benefits, in growth and jobs, to both sides of the Atlantic.

There are also compelling strategic reasons for the agreement, as the right hon. Member for Warley (Mr Spellar) and the hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty) argued, putting the proposal in its historical context. It would be good not only for trade but for the relationship between our two continents. A successful conclusion could allow the EU and the US to agree common standards and rules fit for the 21st century. The principle of mutual recognition is an important one, and perhaps the mutually recognised standards would form the basis for standards around the rest of the world, given the sheer scale of a free trade area between the EU and the US.

We heard Opposition Members argue passionately in favour of the EU and against giving people their say, not least the hon. Members for Linlithgow, for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield), who gave a spectacularly passionate argument against allowing people their say in a referendum, and for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain). I think that the TTIP is central to our vision of a reformed EU that is more competitive and better able to deliver jobs and growth for its citizens, and for that proposition to be put to the British people in a referendum is a strong strategy for the way forward. Opposition Members talked about Barack Obama’s White House officials saying this and that, but I will go by the words of the man himself, who fulsomely supported the strategy of renegotiating our relationship and putting it to the people in a referendum.

The EU-US trade deal would be the biggest in the world, and it would build on our strong relationship.

[Mike Gapes]

The Minister just said that President Obama had supported a referendum. Perhaps he will give us the source of that statement.

[Matthew Hancock]

The source of the statement was President Obama. He said during a press conference with the Prime Minister—I do not have the precise quote, but I have the substance of it—that he thought it was right to try to renegotiate a relationship before deciding to leave. I will write to the hon. Gentleman with the precise quote. I think that it is better to listen to a politician, rather than officials representing a politician.

Crucially, the free trade deal must genuinely support free trade, which I think it will. My hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy commented on that, channelling Bright. Negotiating an ambitious programme is vital. Many numbers have been quoted in the debate. We are already negotiating trade deals with Canada, India and Japan, each of which represents 2% of our exports. The United States represents 15% of our exports. I think that sums up the scale and importance of the proposition.

The relationship is already exceptionally close and deep. The US is the top export destination after the rest of the EU, and the US and the UK are each other’s largest foreign investors, supporting over 1 million jobs in this country, and US investment stock in the UK is worth around £200 billion, which is eight times the size of US investment stock in China. The scale is important, the Government’s ambition is high, and all areas are in scope. Of course, as has been mentioned, the audio-visual sector has been set to one side, but there is the potential to include it if negotiations go in that direction.

With regard to whether regional jobs data can be made available, the hon. Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey) and the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne argued strongly that we need to ensure that we make the argument for the deal. We will look at publishing regional jobs data in as robust a way as possible. Arguments were made, not least by the hon. Members for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) and for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming) and my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith), giving specific examples of how the deal would help British businesses and jobs and be a positive force for the economy and prosperity. It is some of the specific examples that were given that make the case most eloquently and strongly.

[Mr Jenkin]

Will the Minister address the concern, raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash), that there are already vast disparities of economic potential in different parts of the EU, which has caused massive trade imbalances between member states? The danger is that a genuine free trade deal would exacerbate those tensions? Will the incentive in the EU not be for a more protectionist deal than we would want? How will he address that?

[Matthew Hancock]

The incentive in the EU is for liberalisation, because overall the analysis of the European Commission and the analysis that we commissioned on the impact on the UK indicated a positive impact on every member state. Of course there are winners and losers, but the overall impact on each part of the EU will be positive. That is what the Commission’s analysis showed.

[Mr Cash]

Will the Minister be good enough to supply the European Scrutiny Committee with that analysis?

[Matthew Hancock]

Yes, of course. I was just about to move on to scrutiny, which came up in many Members’ contributions and is important. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash) about the uncertainty of forecasts and numbers, but I will give the Committee the analysis. The Committee will play an important part in scrutinising the negotiations. Of course, as many Members have said, the negotiations will be led by the Commission, so we must ensure that we do not get in the way of positive developments of substance by publishing things that the Commission would not want us to publish, but within those constraints we will ensure that we engage with the Committee, and indeed with Members on both sides. I think that it would be positive to have debates such as this one as the process goes forward.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Matthew Hancock]

Of course.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. The Minister has now been speaking for 10 minutes, so I am sure that Bob Stewart can save himself for later.

[Matthew Hancock]

Let me just run through as quickly as I can some of the other points that were made.

The objective in the negotiations, including in TTIP, will be to have commitments in health services that are broadly in line with existing international trade agreements, so I can reassure Members on that point. It is true that this is an ambitious project, but our goal is that it should be concluded within 18 to 24 months. The US interpretation is that it should be concluded on one tank of gas, and we wholeheartedly agree. The British Government will put in place whatever support is necessary for the Commission to help that happen. The benefits will come not only as a result of reducing tariffs, although they are relatively low, but from non-tariff barriers, mutual recognition of regulation and the treatment of intellectual property, which has been mentioned.

We are under no illusions that this will be easy, but we are well placed and have a strong political commitment. In the first negotiating round, which took place last week, good progress was made. A framework for the negotiations was agreed and an initial productive exchange of views on ambition and approach across each dossier was achieved. As the Prime Minister has said, it is a once-in-a-generation prize and we are determined to seize it to ensure that the benefits of free trade can increase and strengthen jobs and prosperity in this nation and around the world.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I call Mr John Healey. You have up to two minutes, but please be brief.

Traineeships (16 to 24-year-olds)

Matt Hancock Excerpts

Wednesday 17th July 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills (Matthew Hancock)]

As part of plans to reform the education and skills systems we need better support for young people aged 16 to 24 who are focused on securing an apprenticeship or sustainable job.

Traineeships for 16 to 19-year-olds were announced in May 2013 and I made a written ministerial statement at that time. We published a framework for delivery for 16 to 19 traineeships and indicated that the programme would be extended up to age 24 in due course.

Today, I am publishing an updated framework for delivery for traineeships, following the announcement in the recent spending review that traineeships will become available to young people up to age 24. Traineeships will address the needs of young people and employers directly, providing an important link between school or college and apprenticeships or sustainable work. This is a key part of my drive to ensure greater rigour and responsiveness in further education, placing the employer and their needs at the heart of delivery.

Government funding for the programme will begin for 16 to 24-year-olds from August this year. Traineeships will be designed to help young people develop both skills and work experience and have flexibility around this core to respond to individuals’ needs.

Copies of the document we are publishing today will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses.

Industry Training Boards (Triennial Review)

Matt Hancock Excerpts

Monday 1st July 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills (Matthew Hancock)]

The coalition Government made a commitment to review public bodies, with the aim of increasing accountability for actions carried out on behalf of the state. The triennial review of the industry training boards is one of the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS) reviews of non-departmental public bodies (NDPBs) scheduled to commence during the third year of the programme (2013-14). The review will commence in July 2013. This is not a review of the policy relating to skills funding, to which the Government remain committed.

The review will be conducted as set out in Cabinet Office guidance, in two stages.

The first stage will:

Identify and examine the key functions of the industry training boards and assess the requirement for these to continue;

If continuing, then assess delivery options and where the conclusion is that a particular function is still needed examine how this function might best be delivered, including a cost and benefits analysis where appropriate;

If one of these options is continuing delivery through the industry training boards then make an assessment against the Government’s “three tests”: technical function; political impartiality; need for independence from Ministers.

If the outcome of stage 1 is that delivery should continue through the industry training boards as an NDPB, then the second stage of the project will be to ensure that they are operating in line with the recognised principles of good corporate governance, using the Cabinet Office “comply or explain” standard approach.

When completed the report of the review will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses.

Young People (Barnsley Central)

Matt Hancock Excerpts

Monday 10th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills (Matthew Hancock)]

It is a great pleasure to respond to the debate, not least because, as the hon. Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis) told us, the beginning of life is full of hope. I strongly agree with him about the need for and the benefits of aspiration and about the duty that we all have to encourage and strengthen it, and to support those who need nurturing as well as challenging those who are ready to rise to the challenge. Indeed, I agreed with much of what he said.

Let me now bring the hon. Gentleman up to date on some developments that he may consider to be in the spirit of support for Barnsley. He can help me, and help the Government, by telling his constituents about offers that can promote the very ambitions and goals that he has described.

Youth unemployment is undoubtedly a challenge throughout the country. It has been rising for far too long—its slow and sclerotic rise began in 2004—but, thankfully, it is now falling, and in Barnsley 210 fewer people aged between 18 and 24 are unemployed than a year ago. As the hon. Gentleman said, 900 are still unemployed, but that is the lowest figure for the last five years, and the figure is falling year on year. Things are moving in the right direction. While 900 young unemployed people are obviously 900 too many, make no mistake: we are focusing four-square on dealing with the problem, as the hon. Gentleman is urging us to do. The Youth Contract, which he mentioned, has helped about 6,000 people in Barnsley, and I think that, given the youth unemployment figure of 900, the ratio is pretty good.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned apprenticeships. The 75% increase in the number of apprenticeships over the last two years to more than 1,300 is very welcome. I pay tribute to Barnsley college, not only because, as the hon. Gentleman said, it is an outstanding further education college that does a huge amount of work for Barnsley and for the whole community, but because its success rate in apprenticeships is 96%—higher than the 74% national success rate. It is outstanding in terms of its Ofsted grade, but also in terms of results.

The town of Barnsley also benefits from being represented by a strong advocate, and there are areas of agreement between the hon. Gentleman and me. The first issue on which we agree is the need for more employer engagement in education. Young people need to be prepared not just for an academic future—important though that is—but for a life in work. They need to understand what work is: to understand not only its benefits but how to engage in it. It is crucial for social mobility that we help everyone to understand what it takes to get a good job, and to hold down a job or an apprenticeship.

I also of course agree on the need to support disabled people and people with additional learning needs in Barnsley and across the country. I agree strongly with the hon. Gentleman about removing funding disparities. Our funding reforms for those aged between 16 and 19, which come into force this September, remove the system that was in place for 10 years or so, whereby funding was applied per qualification. That meant that those who took a lot of qualifications, who tend to be the best educated, ended up getting more funding for their education from 16 to 19, and those who did fewer qualifications got less funding. People in full-time education who were doing, say, one or two BTECS, equivalent to one or two A-levels, would be funded at about half the rate of a very bright pupil doing five A-levels. That was wrong. We have changed that so that every pupil will be funded according to the same formula, with the same basic rate, with adjustments so that those from disadvantaged backgrounds have slightly more. There are other alterations for those taking particularly expensive courses. However, the fundamental point is that we fund per pupil from 16 to 19. I hope that the hon. Gentleman supports that change.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned the issues of VAT and free school meals, both of which I recognise. On free school meals, we need to be careful what we wish for. Schools have a duty to provide free school meals to sixth formers, but they do not get funded for it. If colleges asked for the duty and we were to be fair and have a level playing field, we would give them the duty without giving them the funding for it. I am not sure that that is exactly what he is calling for. We give a bursary to support the most disadvantaged 16 to 19-year-olds, including some in Barnsley, who need additional support, including for school meals.

What the hon. Gentleman said about Saturday morning lessons in English and maths was interesting. I strongly agree with him that English and maths are crucial. All the evidence shows that, as well as being academic skills, they are the two most important vocational skills. I will look into what he said about Ofsted and see what the circumstances were. Of course, Ofsted is independent.

I agree with the hon. Gentleman strongly on another aspect: the importance of data, the league tables and the need for the tables to be on a level playing field. We need to show not only exam results in an equal way for different types of provider, but the various destinations that people go to. Exams are important but they are a means to an end. It is about what proportion of people get an apprenticeship, what proportion of people go to university, how many get into work and how many go on to further study. We are committed to bringing that richer, more detailed destination data into the public domain. I hope that he welcomes that.

There are some areas where we do not have a disagreement of purpose, but we do have a disagreement in terms of what the Government are doing. I agree with the hon. Gentleman about the importance of early years and of everyone getting a good start in life. Indeed, the Government are bringing in the offer for two-year-olds and extending the age range for the most disadvantaged two-year-olds to ensure that they have support to help them to get a good start.

I agree about the phrase “The forgotten 50%”, which we hear almost as an apology from some Labour Members. They have not been forgotten by us. The introduction, strengthening and development of the apprenticeship proposal is vital in ensuring that everyone gets a good start. We have made it clear that we want to see a new norm—that young people, when they leave school, go, of their own choice, either to a university or into an apprenticeship. Our job in government is to ensure that high-quality offers for each option are available, and higher apprenticeships in particular show that, if one goes into an apprenticeship, one can progress all the way through. I again heard at the weekend the Labour shadow Secretary of State saying he agreed with the 50% target for universities, but that can unwittingly push people into the wrong choices for them.

Finally, on the point about linear rather than modular exams, I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman about education not being just a conveyor belt of exams, but modular exams are more of a conveyor belt. We saw last summer the difficulties that a modular system can get our education system into. Linear exams are precisely about testing people on what they have achieved at the end of their studies, rather than constantly asking them to learn for another exam and another exam, and to learn information just so long as they can get through the exam and the module. Instead it is about imbuing people with a deeper sense of what that knowledge conveys.

The drive for rigour and reform in our education system is something that progressive Members on both sides of this House ought to support. They ought to support it whether there are tight budgets or not, and whatever the reasons for those tight budgets are.

I hope the hon. Gentleman will look at the answers I have given about the apprenticeship programme, the new traineeship programme coming in in August, and the rising standards we are driving through in schools and colleges in Barnsley and across the country, and will reflect to his constituents not only that things are indeed tough but are getting better, but also that there is a great offer from a Government who are determined to support young people and to ensure that youth unemployment falls every year.

Question put and agreed to.

Vocational Education

Matt Hancock Excerpts

Tuesday 4th June 2013 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills (Matthew Hancock)]

It is a great pleasure to serve yet again under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. It is a partnership that I hope will continue for a long time to come. This debate is extremely important and timely. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) for securing it today, the day before vocational qualifications day, which was set up to celebrate vocational qualifications in a similar way to results days for GCSEs and A-levels. It is part of the twin track discussed by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt).

The debate has been wide-ranging—it is typical to say so at the start of a winding-up speech, but it is also true—and important. Some valuable points have been made on both the detail and the big picture. The hon. Member for Scunthorpe began by discussing four areas of concern: vocational education at key stages 4 and 5, careers advice, apprenticeships and traineeships and adult skills and unemployment. I will try to answer all his questions in the time available.

The hon. Gentleman also set out a rather Panglossian view of the world in 2010, not mentioning that youth unemployment was rising even before the crisis and had reached 1 million. Thankfully, it is now falling, although it is still far too high. There were skills shortages at the same time, which says to me that the education system has not been producing the skills that businesses need. I was rather more encouraged by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central, who took that argument apart and made a passionate case for increased standards. He was willing to criticise the previous Labour Government, rightly, for not focusing enough on standards in vocational education.

To address a point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd), I sit in two Departments. In the Department for Education, the action taken to increase standards in vocational education came first. Since the Wolf report, commissioned in 2011, we have taken action in the 14-to-16 age group, and we have now finalised a consultation on improving the quality of qualifications for 16 to 19-year olds. The area was radically in need of reform, and radical reform is coming through.

The devotion to increasing standards in vocational education—which has cross-party support, including clear agreement that there was a significant problem in 2010—has been led by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education, with the strong support of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. All three major parties agree on the matter. I think that we can now all accept that a serious weakness needed to be addressed and that we are taking steps to address it.

I say to all involved in this debate that, given that we will the ends, we must also will the means. That involves clearly, carefully and in a spirit of high consultation going through the qualifications offered, funded and recognised and ensuring that we support high-quality, stretching, rigorous qualifications that are responsive to the needs of employers.

On the point about the engineering diploma, we must encourage the creation of stretching, high quality new qualifications that fit the needs of modern employers. We encourage their creation in areas needed by business, and that has begun in the engineering industry and across different economic sectors.

This has been a helpful debate on both detail, to which I will come, and the big picture. As the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central said, of the 40% who do not get a level 2 qualification in English and maths, only 20% get one by the age of 19. That situation cannot be allowed to continue. I have read the Labour plan to increase English and maths requirements for FE teachers. That is already happening; I will send him the details of what we have done to address the issue. That is hopefully another outbreak of consensus.

In setting out what we are doing to achieve those goals, I will answer the questions put. Satisfyingly, the questions put were already answered in the draft of my speech, which is always good news. Professor Wolf found in her report, commissioned in 2011, that as many as 350,000 students were being funded to study for qualifications that they could pass but that were too small or low-level to get them a job. We are changing the requirements for qualifications to be funded and recognised, but we are doing so alongside changing how we fund all education between the ages of 16 and 19.

From September, funding will be on a per-student, not a per-qualification, basis, removing the unintended and perverse incentive to offer more qualifications, rather than focusing on what individuals need. Pupils will be offered a study programme including either a substantial vocational or academic qualification or an extended programme of work experience.

I return to the point about work experience, which is part of the study programme. This will give schools, colleges and training providers the flexibility to offer the most challenging qualifications to students who want to excel, whether in a technical field, in practical, employment-based training such as an apprenticeship or in an academic field. The need to ensure that people have a choice to pursue technical or vocational education, academic education or a combination of the two is important, and the Government’s job is to provide excellent options in all of those fields. I was delighted that Her Majesty said in the Queen’s Speech that it should become typical for young people to go either to university or into an apprenticeship. Our job is to ensure that excellent options are available on both sides, and not to have a target that falsely pushes people one way or the other.

My hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) argued that vocational education is social justice. The change in the funding system means that all students will be funded at the same base level, once the transitional protections are past. Instead of the average person who goes to an FE college being funded less than the average person who stays on at sixth form, because of the different amounts of funding awarded per qualification, everyone will be funded per pupil, on the same basis, with factors allowing for location, background and the higher cost of some qualifications.

[Nic Dakin]

The Minister is making a good point, but the plan is for 16 to 18-year-olds to be funded significantly less than students younger than that or than students who go on to higher education. There is an issue about the quantum, which I hope that the Government are examining.

[Matthew Hancock]

I do not quite take the point on higher education, because students in higher education fund themselves through loans. I am pleased that through our introduction of loans and the progressive rules on repayment—only if people have a good job and earn £21,000—a record number of people are applying to university, and that also provides the hon. Gentleman with a response to an intervention that he made. To make the right comparison on how much we fund someone in an age group, we need to ensure that in the first instance the funding is equal across the different sectors and options, which is what the change will achieve.

I pay tribute in the strongest possible terms to my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow on the parliamentary apprenticeship scheme, which he set up and champions. I support him for doing that, and now dozens of MPs and peers have apprentices. Knowing the impact that apprentices have on employers—they become much more passionate about apprentices when they have apprentices themselves—I am sure that the scheme will have an effect on MPs. Indeed, it was a great pleasure to take the parliamentary apprentices of all parties to No. 10 Downing street to meet the Prime Minister, and I enjoyed grinning with the apprentice of the hon. Member for Scunthorpe on the steps of No. 10.

An important point to make is about the participation age rising from 16 to 17—for those starting this year—and then to 18. The participation age will ensure and require that young people stay in education or training until, by 2015, they are 18, although not necessarily in school—it could be in college, in an apprenticeship, in employment with training or in voluntary work with part-time training. That is an important point because we do not want to close down the options available, but we want people to stay in education. An apprenticeship is a good way to deliver that.

Why are we making the reforms, which fall under the title of increasing rigour and responsiveness to the needs of individuals and of employers? What I call the motivating fact is the link between having youth unemployment that is far too high and skills shortages. To deal with that, it is important to ensure that the education system is more responsive and more rigorous and stretching.

How are we going to achieve that? I will go through some of the measures, four of which form the core goals that I think are necessary and the first of which is the introduction of traineeships. Many young people are highly motivated by the prospect of work, but are not yet ready or able to secure an apprenticeship or sustainable job. From this August, therefore, we are launching a high-quality traineeship programme within the study programme for 16 to 19-year-olds, to include work preparation, work experience, and English and maths, because English and maths are the No. 1 and No. 2 vocational skills. Other flexible training will be tailored to meet individual need.

[Nic Dakin]

The introduction of traineeships is positive, but my understanding is that they will be about six months in length. Will the Minister consider being flexible on how they are delivered, so that they could be delivered in a longitudinal way alongside other qualifications over a year, for example?

[Matthew Hancock]

The plan is to introduce the traineeships this year and to have a full analysis of how they work over their first year of operation. I am willing to look at all questions, because the preparation for the traineeships has been highly evidence-based and consultative. Over the years, we have had many different programmes to help people who are not yet ready to take on a job, and some have been successful and some not. My Twitter account is full of descriptions of experiences of YTS—the youth training scheme—or the flexible new deal, for example, and all sorts of different Government schemes that have been in this space. We want to ensure that we learn where they have worked and where they have not.

The second big change is in apprenticeships, and I am delighted with the cross-party support for the Richard review. The number of apprenticeships has almost doubled since 2010 and, we found out last week, apprenticeship applications are up a third on the previous year. The new higher apprenticeships allow people to get into the law through an apprenticeship and to become a fully qualified solicitor, or, likewise, into the upper reaches of the worlds of engineering and manufacturing and even to become an accountant. People will get the same qualifications as those who go through university.

[Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)]

As a former apprentice, I understand the value of apprenticeships, but what are often described as apprenticeships by some Government Members are nine-week training courses. We have to protect the quality of apprenticeships.

[Matthew Hancock]

Yes, and we have introduced a minimum period of a year for apprenticeships. We absolutely have to do more on quality, which is what the Richard review is all about. We have introduced UTCs—university technical colleges—which will introduce the very best technical education in conjunction with universities and employers. We are reforming qualifications and standards, because we cannot will the end—higher standards—without willing the means. When colleges fail on minimum standards, whether financially or educationally, the new FE commissioner will take a tough approach when looking at all the options for how to serve local students better.

Finally, on careers advice and guidance, we want better inspiration and motivation, character building and the opening of young people’s eyes to wider horizons, with mentoring so that everyone can reach their potential. The information is out there—the web is littered with it—but we need to ensure that young people find it, know what is relevant to them and can set and reach their goals. Ofsted is inspecting against the new duty to provide independent and impartial advice, so schools will be inspected for that. Crucially, the new destination data will show not only how many people go to university, but how many go into an apprenticeship or a job. The data will better hold schools to account for the outcomes of the education that they provide, not only on the exams and where they get in those league tables, but on where the students get to. I hope that that improves matters a lot.

Careers Guidance

Matt Hancock Excerpts

Thursday 16th May 2013 Westminster Hall

[Pat Glass]

I welcome that intervention. I absolutely agree that where we saw good practice, it still fell short of what had previously been provided. I understand that the Government have had to make cuts, but that is happening across the country to a greater extent than in Bradford, where we saw what other authorities can only aspire to.

The Government response criticised the Committee for carrying out the inquiry when the new arrangements had been in place for only one term. They felt strongly that greater consideration could have been given to allowing the new arrangements time to bed in before drawing such firm conclusions. The Government’s arrangements may have been in place for only one term, but the funding has been withdrawn for almost three years. We decided to look at the matter now rather than later, because we had strong evidence that the system was collapsing around young people, who were making less than informed decisions that will affect their whole lives.

I want briefly to consider what has since happened. Heather Jackson and Professor Tony Watts have resigned from the National Careers Council, in which the Government have such high hopes, as did we. The reasons they cited for their resignations are concerns regarding the council’s recommendations to the Minister in early May, and its failure to draw attention to the Education Committee’s report, with its strong recommendations on steps to be taken to address the current crisis in schools, including the urgent need for enhanced accountability and quality assurance. The inquiry was carried out at the right time: had we waited, we would now be taking evidence about an even greater crisis in independent careers advice, not an improving situation.

On the disappearing budget, the Government argued:

“While there was no explicit transfer of resources, when we made the decision to stop the Connexions service, by making savings on that and other centrally driven budgets we were able to prioritise and protect expenditure devolved to schools during this Spending Review period.”

I am sorry, but I say to the Minister that that is smoke and mirrors at best, and it insults the intelligence at worst. To transfer a major statutory duty to schools without any funding, at the same time as local authority budgets were being slashed and schools were having to pay for educational support services that they previously received free, either from local or central Government, and to expect them to deliver a proper service from a frozen or shrinking budget is simply disingenuous.

I have a number of questions that I wanted to put to the Minister, but I am conscious that if I go on much longer, other people may not be able to speak. If I write to him, will he be good enough to respond to those detailed questions?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills (Matthew Hancock)]

indicated assent.

[Pat Glass]

Finally, I remind the Minister that in an educational system that is becoming increasingly diverse, the need for good-quality, independent careers advice has never been greater. If it is not available, it will not be the young people who have access to good family networks, whose parents work in the professions and who have good contacts who will most lose out; it will be the young people who do not have those things, and who need good-quality advice—about what they do next for courses and where they go next for jobs—that currently is simply not available.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills (Matthew Hancock)]

It is a pleasure, Mr Benton, to serve under your chairmanship. I will try to respond to all the points that have been raised, but if there is not enough time to respond to specific points, I will be happy to do so in detail in correspondence, as with the Committee’s deputy Chair.

I value the cross-party approach to the debate and the Opposition Front-Bench Member’s largely non-partisan approach. I invite him to the Department to give him a teach-in on some of the things we are doing on work experience because I agree that it is vital, and we are doing a huge amount to strengthen it. What matters is real work experience, not pretend work experience. The change is important and I am sure he will agree when he understands what is happening. I welcome him to his first Westminster Hall debate on the Front Bench.

During the debate, I noted a huge number of areas of agreement, not least on the value and importance of information, advice and guidance, but also motivation, inspiration and education in a world that young people can reach through their education and their choices of qualification. Several times, the motivating fact in my job was brought up. Youth unemployment is falling and this week, thankfully, the figures showed a further fall, but it is far, far too high. At the same time we have a skills shortage. To fill that skills shortage, we must make sure that the young people of this country have not only the training and qualifications, but the skills to get a job and hold it down. That is the motivation behind the massive increase in apprenticeships and the introduction of traineeships, which will start in the summer. There is agreement about the value and importance of that.

There is also agreement that Connexions failed badly, and that was mentioned throughout the Chamber, but that must be matched with recognition that if the activity that occurred under Connexions, which was poor value for money, has reduced, it is not the same as the amount of careers advice falling. The two are separate, and the reason for the cross-party, cross-sector agreement that Connexions failed is that it was poor value for money.

[Alex Cunningham]

I am interested in professional help. We have seen the number of professionals in the careers service collapse throughout the country. Does that not worry the Minister when he talks about the agenda for informing young people properly?

[Matthew Hancock]

I will come to that. The question is what we can do to provide information, advice, guidance and, much more broadly, motivation and inspiration. Times have changed since the Connexions service was opened up. Information is widely available, but it is obvious that information on the web is not enough; it is about the individual connection between human beings, with young people being inspired, usually by a practitioner who is doing something with their life. Young people look at them and say, “That’s the sort of thing I want to do.” Then the question is how to ensure that they are steered into the path of being able to do it.

Aspiration must be encouraged, but realistically. There was a time when I wanted to be an astronaut, and I am glad I was told that for someone who is British the chances of becoming an astronaut are close to zero, so I ended up in my second choice.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Elizabeth Truss)]

My hon. Friend should have tried harder.

[Matthew Hancock]

My hon. Friend says I should have tried harder, but it is about balance. We must be aspirational, but realistic and helpful.

The funding issue has been raised many times. Times are, of course, tight for funding, but the central point is that the legal duty to secure independent and impartial advice in schools needs to be delivered from the school budget. Schools have a whole budget to deliver this, not just the £7 million that the Department for Education put into the National Careers Service. Frankly, we must be much more ambitious and look forward not back. I have taken up the mantle that was laid down. We understand what happened. There has been a big change and the question now is how that statutory duty can be properly enforced and put in place as powerfully and effectively as possible.

Of course, autonomy and accountability matter. People say that schools will not do this, but I also heard the evidence that 98% of schools say that it is very important. We must hold schools to account so that they deliver, and that can be done through Ofsted. Michael Wilshaw of Ofsted says that from September it will give priority to inspection of career advice, and the destination data that we are working extremely hard to expand.

[Pat Glass]

In schools, what gets measured gets done, so how will we ensure that careers advice is policed and happens for all children, not just some?

--- Later in debate ---

[Matthew Hancock]

The new destination data that were introduced this summer included for the first time measurement of people who go to university and also those who go into apprenticeships and other jobs. We must expand that. Last year was the first year, and there will be more years with a richer dataset in future. We must hold schools to account for that. As the hon. Lady says, what gets measured gets done, so we must measure destinations and outcomes—where children actually get to.

There is best practice. The careers academies provide inspirational best practice, including information and advice, as well as mentoring from people who work in industry. They go with pupils from a young age all the way through university or an apprenticeship and into work, and continue to mentor over a long period. Other examples of where things are working well include Business in the Community, Business Class and Speakers for Schools. As the hon. Member for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) said, there is some excellent provision.

The need for closer collaboration between employers and schools is vital to tackle the motivating factor. Someone reported an offer of support from the Federation of Small Businesses, and I hope that the FSB will contact me because I would very much like to take forward its offer. The issue is about ensuring that all children have access to the sort of networks that middle-class children often take for granted. Most jobs are filled not through advertising, but through networks, and it is vital to make sure that everyone has the same access to the networks that the middle classes often take for granted.

What must we do? First, enterprise, work and getting ready for employment, as well as further academic study, must be central to a school’s mission. Parents, employers and schools are vital for that. Labour market information through local enterprise partnerships, city deals and the National Careers Service is also vital and we have been very clear about the role of LEPs in providing labour market information. The bridge between employers and the education system, who often speak different languages, must be based on stronger relationships, and it is our responsibility to ensure that they happen.

Centrally and most importantly, the issue is not just about skills or careers advice. It is about guidance, inspiration, mentoring and character building—building self-reliance, lateral thinking, motivation and grit among our children to ensure that they can take on the challenges that they will face throughout their lives so that they can propel themselves through their careers because they are inspired to succeed. Let us take the discussion forward and be ambitious in our goals, and not merely try to recreate failed institutions of the past.

Traineeships

Matt Hancock Excerpts

Thursday 9th May 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills (Matthew Hancock)]

As part of plans to reform the education system we need better support for young people aged over 16 who are focused on securing an apprenticeship or sustainable jobs. We want to make it the new norm that young people go into either an apprenticeship or university.

Employers frequently tell us that they are not satisfied with the quality of young applicants that they receive for their vacancies. They would like young people to have better English and maths, experience in the workplace and the skills and character needed to secure and hold down a job.

So today I am publishing a framework for delivery for a new programme of traineeships. Traineeships will address the needs of young people and employers directly, providing an important link between school or college and apprenticeships or sustainable work.

The programme will begin from August this year for 16-19 year olds, and we will look to extend the programme up to 24 in due course. Traineeships will be designed to help young people develop in three core areas and have flexibility around this core to respond to individuals’ needs.

First, they will include high-quality work placements. This will allow trainees to work with an employer, developing the behaviours necessary to find and keep a job.

Secondly, traineeships will offer flexible training in other relevant areas to build character and help young people get ready for work, such as job search and interview skills, time-keeping and team working.

Thirdly, and crucially, the programme will develop the English and maths that employers consistently tell us are essential prerequisites for successful employment.

Providers and employers will have the freedom to work together to develop these core elements and any additional flexible content in the best way to engage and support individual trainees and meet the needs of local employers. Traineeships will be part of our new study programmes, which will ensure simplicity and enable young people to move between options.

Each traineeship will last up to six months, after which the trainee will be much better placed to progress into an apprenticeship, a sustainable job, or into continued education to develop the skills they need for their chosen career. Traineeships will conclude with a guaranteed interview with the work placement host, either for a job or a reference from their work placement to develop their CV.

In the first year, we will restrict the providers who offer traineeships to those that Ofsted has judged to be outstanding or good. This will help to ensure a high-quality start that we can expand upon in future years.

Employers will have a key role in making the traineeships programme a success, both leading delivery and working in partnership with education and training providers. I believe that the traineeships programme that I am announcing today will set more young people on the path to apprenticeships, sustainable jobs and successful careers.

Copies of the document we are publishing today will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses.

Oral Answers to Questions

Matt Hancock Excerpts

Monday 22nd April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

T5. Brymore school, a state-funded boarding school for 13 to 17-year-olds in Somerset, specialises in rural technology and has its own its own farms, stock, greenhouses, workshops, foundry and forge. Although it delivers exactly what the Secretary of State wants—vocational excellence, great maths and English teaching, and a rapid rise in exam results, having moved from the bottom 9% to the top 3% of schools nationally when looking at value added over the past two years—no land-based subjects will be included in the performance measures from 2015. Will the Secretary of State consider the recognition of agriculture and horticulture in a farm bacc, and meet parents from my patch, and others, to discuss the issue?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills (Matthew Hancock)]

I am grateful for that question, because I am a fan of recognising high-quality vocational education, hence the tech bacc announced today. Agricultural and land-based qualifications will, of course, be eligible for inclusion in the tech bacc and for younger age groups. However, they must be of very high quality to ensure that we provide high-quality qualifications for those who take vocational routes. I would be happy to meet the hon. Lady.

[Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)]

Nursery providers in my constituency have expressed their approval of support received from the local authority in relation to good practice, providing support and raising standards. What guarantees can Ministers provide that such support will continue under the new regulatory regime?

--- Later in debate ---

[Matthew Hancock]

The tech bacc is intended to recognise high-quality vocational education, including written work and maths. The key thing is that the occupational qualifications included will be developed and signed off by employers, because employers are vital to ensure that when we teach people vocational skills, those skills can be put to good use.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

Changes to AS and A-levels are planned for 2015, as well as changes to GCSEs. What assessment have the Government made of the impact of that conflagration of curriculum changes on young people, schools and colleges?

Pupil Premium

Matt Hancock Excerpts

Tuesday 16th April 2013 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills (Matthew Hancock)]

It is a pleasure, Mr Crausby, to serve under your chairmanship. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Sir Nick Harvey) on securing this debate. I discussed the matter with the Minister for Schools yesterday, and my hon. Friend will know that the two of us have ministerial responsibility for the matter, not least because of the importance of the 16-to-19 question, which is a subset to which my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) referred.

The nub of the debate is the right eligibility for the pupil premium. There is consensus in the Chamber that it is an unalloyed good policy, and I think there would also be consensus if a member of the Labour party were present. There is a good reason for that. The school meals service extends back to the mid-19th century, and was introduced by charities to ensure that disadvantaged children had the opportunity to eat at least one good meal a day. Since then, provision has been broadened to paid-for and Government-funded meals, but the aim remains of ensuring that families who struggle to afford to pay for school meals are helped to do so, not least because healthy meals and good nourishment make it easier for children to concentrate, and help them to be better behaved and more able to learn.

The key question of how to support free school meals and, through that, how to support and decide on allocations for the pupil premium is critical. The debate comes at a good time, as universal credit is introduced in pilot areas this month and will shortly be in full force. Eligibility for free school meals and therefore the pupil premium is a live issue and the Government have not yet announced exactly how that eligibility will match up, so it is a good time to have this debate.

We know that income matters, but the measure of poverty is important. The relative poverty measures that my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon mentioned do not in isolation provide an accurate picture of the experience of poverty in the UK. It is important when talking about eligibility not to compare raw poverty figures with eligibility because every measure of poverty is imperfect. Poverty based on relative poverty—40% of median income—is only one way of measuring it. For example, the latest figures show that 300,000 children moved out of poverty, in large part due to a drop in incomes at the top, not least because of taxation policy. The question of which poverty measures impact on the ground is therefore critical. An important consideration is that such measures need to be attuned enough so that financial allocations can be based on them. As a result, receipt of welfare of benefits has been seen as a more reliable basis for identifying disadvantage, not least because it can be proven easily by parents. Over the years, the list of qualifying benefits for free school meals has increased to ensure that the children who most need free school meals are entitled to them. My hon. Friend mentioned the change to the “ever 6” formula so that those entitled to free school meals during the past six years are eligible for the pupil premium, rather than only those who are currently entitled.

[Sir Nick Harvey]

The Minister’s point is that there are many different measures that could be used, and that the relative poverty figure is a percentage of the whole and thus prone to fluctuation from time to time. Nevertheless, can he not see the point made by the Children’s Society that, if the Government have an accepted measure of children living in poverty, it is strange to have free school meals based on measures that are so far apart from it that a significant proportion of those whom the Government deem to be in poverty are not entitled to the meals?

[Matthew Hancock]

The measure my hon. Friend refers to is one measure of poverty; it is not the measure of poverty. Crucially, however, the link between eligibility for free school meals and poverty is changing with the universal credit, as he said, and I shall come on to that in a second.

My hon. Friend set out what I want to put on record: the link between poverty of income, education or aspiration and the prediction of a child’s future life chances. The issue is important because disadvantage remains strongly associated with poor performance throughout school, a fact that provides the central driving mission of the reforms to education under this Government. We wish to close the attainment gap by improving the quality of education through a range of measures, not least the pupil premium; by improving schools through free schools and academies; and by improving the quality of teachers going into the profession, not only in schools in well-off areas but throughout the country. We in this Chamber agree on that central driver and on the many reforms that are taking place in order to achieve it. The link between free school meal eligibility and underachievement is strong. At every national level of educational attainment, pupils eligible for free school meals are at a lower stage than their peers.

[Robert Halfon]

Does my hon. Friend agree that that also applies to sixth-form students in colleges? Three times as many students at colleges are eligible for free school meals as students in maintained sixth forms. If we are serious about levelling the playing field, should we not concentrate our resources on those most in need, in particular those who go to sixth-form colleges?

[Mr David Crausby (in the Chair)]

Order. The Minister earlier referred to the absence of Opposition spokesmen, but I understand that “Erskine May” notes that these debates are personal to the Minister and the Member, so reference to the absence of Front-Bench spokesmen is not appropriate because they could not speak from the Front Bench in any case.

[Matthew Hancock]

I am terribly sorry. I was referring not to Front-Bench spokespeople but to any Opposition Members. I take your point, however, Mr Crausby.

On colleges, I understand the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow, but we need to be careful about what we wish for, because schools are not funded for the provision of free school meals to those over the age of 16, although they have a legal requirement to deliver them. Colleges have the 16-to-19 bursary fund to support those most in need, which can pay for anything, at the discretion of those colleges that receive it, including meals. A requirement on colleges to provide free meals to students who are eligible for them—in schools, funding is not provided to do that—would fetter the discretion of those administering the funds provided for bursaries. We therefore need to be careful about how we look at this important question.

I understand the point made about the spending on the pupil premium being spread more thinly or, as my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon said, diluting it by extending its reach into younger years. We all understand the importance of early years, which is backed up strongly by the evidence, but we have already increased funding to early years education: 20% of two-year-olds now have a commitment of 15 hours of funded education a week from this September, rising to 40% next September, with the funding increasing to £760 million per annum in 2014-15. We have a responsibility to primary schools not to dilute their agreed funding. I understand the argument, but the question is how best to deliver for early years; our preference is to extend the breadth of the target group reached by the premium in the age ranges covered.

[Sir Nick Harvey]

The dilution I was talking about was spreading the premium to a larger number of entitled children, not taking it to a lower age.

[Matthew Hancock]

In either case, the increase in the funding over the past couple of years has gone not only to broaden the eligibility, for which my hon. Friend is calling, but to increase the rate. A balance has been struck between the two, and the premium now reaches about a quarter of all pupils, compared with 18% in 2011-12. Furthermore, we cannot identify the children concerned unless they have been registered as eligible at some point in the previous six years, hence the introduction of the “ever 6” extension and our work to improve take-up, for example with a new online facility for local authorities to contact the Department to find out about eligibility.

I now turn to the crucial point of the introduction of universal credit. As my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon said, the under-registration rate for free school meals is remarkably low in Devon, at only 3%. I commend those concerned, such as those working in the local authority, for that extremely good rate; in Devon, we have identified only about 300 children eligible for free school meals who do not claim them, which is one of the lowest rates in the country. The question, however, is what we do when we introduce universal credit.

Crucially, universal credit includes low-income working families, which is not currently the case in consideration of free school meals, because those on working tax credit are excluded, although they will be included in universal credit. In order to make work pay, universal credit will ensure that reduction by withdrawal of benefits is done in a way that does not stop work paying. The case of free school meals, put so powerfully by my hon. Friend, matters because we have to look at the marginal withdrawal rate of all state benefits, and the free school meal is a benefit in kind. We will take that important consideration into account.

The universal credit reforms give us the opportunity for such consideration, and it is taking place right now, so my hon. Friend’s speech was extremely timely as well as powerfully put. I will ensure that those examining the matter see the transcript of the debate in Hansard, and I am sure that he will make the point directly to other Ministers as well, including the Minister for Schools. We have to get things right, because the pupil premium is an important policy, and we must ensure that it is fairly distributed and gets to the people who need it most.