Oral Answers to Questions

Marsha De Cordova Excerpts

Thursday 17th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ms Julie Minns (Carlisle) (Lab)]

1. What steps the Church of England is taking to support parish life in small rural communities.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Marsha De Cordova)]

With your indulgence, Mr Speaker, as this is my first time responding to questions, I would like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to my predecessor as Second Church Estates Commissioner, the former Member for South West Bedfordshire, Andrew Selous, for his work in the role. I certainly hope to do my best in it for parliamentarians and commissioners.

Turning to my hon. Friend’s question, the Church of England operates 16,000 parish churches, over half of which are in rural areas, along with Church schools. It provides the largest network of buildings in England that serve communities—buildings that are used for worship and education, as well as warm spaces and hubs for activities such as food banks, post offices, credit unions and other social and community initiatives.

[Ms Minns]

The parish of Bewcastle in the north-east corner of my constituency is perhaps best known as the home of the Bewcastle cross, probably the finest example of pre-Norman carving in England. Geographically, it is a very isolated community, but every single month, parishioners organise a vibrant community hub, which is critical in overcoming social isolation and loneliness. Next month will mark 1,350 years since the carving of the cross, so will my hon. Friend ask the Church Commissioners to consider additional funding for the parish to improve the village hall?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I congratulate all the volunteers in the parish of Bewcastle on their work to tackle social isolation and loneliness. I will look into the specific case that my hon. Friend mentions and see what advice can be given to support her. I also commend the work of the Good Shepherd multi-academy trust, which is in her constituency and supports children, families and communities to flourish.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I welcome the Second Church Estates Commissioner to her place, and thank her for her answer to the previous question. As everyone knows, the purpose of any church is to tell the greatest story ever told—the story of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ—but alongside that they have practical purposes, which the hon. Member for Carlisle (Ms Minns) referred to. Those purposes include looking after the elderly, as well as children, through childcare and nurseries; and there is also the social media and the events that churches host. Those are the practical outpourings of the gospel in the lives of those whom we reach. What will the Church Commissioners do to ensure that those things happen, alongside the telling of the gospel?

[Marsha De Cordova]

As the hon. Member highlights, there is so much that the Church does by way of outreach in our communities. It also ensures that there is good infrastructure to protect all our communities, including children and young people.

[Josh Babarinde (Eastbourne) (LD)]

2. What steps the Church is taking to support the development of housing on derelict former church sites.

[Marsha De Cordova]

When a church is closed, a formal legal process under the Mission and Pastoral Measure 2011 is followed. There are currently 127 cases in which a new use is being found for closed church buildings; only two are cleared sites, and they are waiting for disposal.

[Josh Babarinde]

I welcome the hon. Lady to her place. Eastbourne declared a housing emergency last year, and the key thing we need to do to address that emergency is build our way out of it. The commissioners preside over a perfect brownfield site for housing: the site of the former St Elisabeth’s church on Victoria Drive, just down the road from where I went to school. It has been derelict for 20 years, and since the church on the site was demolished four years ago, there has been no sign of development whatsoever. I urge the commissioners to develop that site into affordable housing, and I appeal to the hon. Lady for an urgent update on the situation.

[Marsha De Cordova]

Since 2022, the Church Commissioners have been working with the diocese of Chichester to market the site and find a developer. I am pleased to say that a developer is in the process of agreeing to a conditional contract for a mixed-use development that will include convenience retail and housing, some of which will be much-needed affordable housing, which the hon. Member mentioned. That development will need planning permission, and that is being explored with the local authority now.

[Blake Stephenson (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con)]

3. What steps the Church is taking with developers and local authorities to ensure that residents in new towns and villages have access to places of worship.

[Marsha De Cordova]

Local authorities are not currently required to consider the building of new places of worship, but under the national planning policy framework they are permitted to include places of worship among a range of community buildings in a development. Where local authorities include places of worship among community buildings, the Church Commissioners seek to promote these facilities.

[Blake Stephenson]

Development should be about building places and communities where people can live fulfilling lives, not just building houses, and places of worship play an important role in that. Will the hon. Member work with Ministers to ensure that the Government’s new towns commission incorporates the creation of places of worship in new towns?

[Marsha De Cordova]

The Church Commissioners are very much invested in place-making; it is at the core of their approach to bringing forward new homes for communities across the country. They have sought a meeting with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government to discuss the Church’s strategic land, and the potential to build up to 70,000 new homes. The diocese of St Albans has several good examples of how the Church is contributing to community-building in the Mid Bedfordshire constituency, and I will write to the hon. Gentleman with further details.

[Luke Myer (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

4. What steps the Church has taken in response to the findings of Sarah Wilkinson’s independent review into the Independent Safeguarding Board.

[Marsha De Cordova]

The General Synod of the Church of England considered the Wilkinson review at its meeting in July 2024. The synod has commissioned a detailed analysis of four options for the organisational structure of safeguarding independence. The intention is for them to be presented to the synod at the next meeting in February 2025, which I hope to attend.

[Luke Myer]

I welcome my hon. Friend to her role; she is doing a fantastic job. My constituent has been involved in that process. Can she help to secure a meeting with my constituent to discuss the findings and the work in more detail?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I will do whatever I can to secure a meeting. It is important to put on record that there has been much engagement with all the survivors, who have been involved throughout the process. I will certainly write to my hon. Friend to see what we can do to ensure that a meeting is secured.

[Greg Smith (Mid Buckinghamshire) (Con)]

5. What steps the Church is taking to recognise the positive impact of individual members of the clergy in the communities they serve.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Marsha de Cordova—you are earning your money today.

[Marsha De Cordova]

I certainly am, and so are my thighs.

At a national level, the contribution of local clergy and lay people is usually recognised through the Archbishops’ medals or a Lambeth degree. Most dioceses also have their own awards. Clergy and lay volunteers are eligible for nomination to relevant orders, and for decorations and medals, and there are opportunities in the wider civil honours system where appropriate.

[Greg Smith]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that answer. I am full of praise for the hard work and dedication of all our clergy, but sometimes an individual goes above and beyond. That is true of Reverend Canon David Williams, who on Christmas day will lead his last service at St Mary’s, Princes Risborough, after 15 years’ service to that town and the surrounding villages. His work includes having supported thousands of children through Lighthouse Princes Risborough, and his role as a trustee of the Princes Centre and other charities, including those supporting the homeless. Will the hon. Lady join me in thanking David and his wife Jo for their 15 years’ service to Princes Risborough? What more can the Church do to recognise his and others’ hard work?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I place on record my thanks, congratulations and appreciation of Reverend Canon David Williams and his wife—as we know, these things are always a partnership—for all their good work in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. The Diocese of Oxford is thankful for the dedicated, pioneering and innovative work of the clergy and their great contribution to the Church’s ministry and mission, and to our local communities. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will pass on my thanks, and that he will be present for the reverend’s final service on Christmas morning, to congratulate him in person.

[Matt Rodda (Reading Central) (Lab)]

6. What progress the Church has made on developing interfaith understanding.

[Marsha De Cordova]

Some 85% of the global population have a faith that shapes their day-to-day life. The Church has been working at a global, national and local level to improve interfaith understanding and engagement. At home, it engages with national and local networks to support faith and civic leaders, mayors and MPs in building trust and resilience in their local communities, as they did during and after the most recent civil unrest.

[Matt Rodda]

I welcome my hon. Friend to her post; she is doing a fine job. Will she join me in congratulating the local faith communities across the diverse and tolerant town of Reading on their work to support one another, and to understand one another’s faith? I associate myself with that tremendous work; it is wonderful to see different faith communities working together for the whole community. I also put on record my support for the retiring Bishop of Reading, Bishop Olivia, and pay tribute to her for her outstanding work to tackle knife crime in our community.

[Marsha De Cordova]

I join my hon. Friend in congratulating all those working across all faiths to ensure that there is good, strong community cohesion, and I congratulate the retiring bishop. That is important across constituencies that, like Reading, have diverse communities with diversity in faith.

[Dawn Butler (Brent East) (Lab)]

7. What steps the Church is taking to mark the 30th anniversary of the ordination of women.

[Rosie Duffield (Canterbury) (Ind)]

11. What steps the Church is taking to mark the 30th anniversary of the ordination of women.

[Marsha De Cordova]

It is so important that we celebrate women who have been ordinated. Tuesday 12 March 2024 marked the 30th anniversary of the first ordinations of women as priests in the Church of England, and about 6,500 women have been ordained since 1994. Women now make up about one third of the clergy in England, and obviously this proportion is growing. Many services of celebration have taken place across the country to recognise the considerable contributions that these women have made and continue to make to the Church. However, as we all know, there is still a long way to go and much more work to be done in this area.

[Dawn Butler]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on the excellent job she is doing today, and on her appointment. I want to highlight one particular woman, Bishop Rose. In 2007, she was appointed chaplain to Her late Majesty the Queen, the first ever black female to hold that role. In 2010, she was the first ever black female appointed as chaplain—the 79th chaplain—to the Speaker of the House of Commons. Since 2019, the Right Rev. Rose Hudson-Wilkin has been the Bishop of Dover and the Bishop in Canterbury—Britain’s first ever black female bishop. Will my hon. Friend join me in honouring Bishop Rose?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I take great pleasure in honouring the great Bishop Rose. As we all know, it is Black History Month, so there is double cause to do so. The diocese of London marked the anniversary, and there have been several services marking it across the country, in which 180 women have gathered to share their experience of ministry over the past 30 years. We all know what a difference Bishop Rose made to this place, including to me personally when I first came here seven and a half years ago. I should also pay tribute to Tricia Hillas, the Speaker’s chaplain for a period of time, another great and amazing woman. I am so proud of the role that women are playing in the Church. They are breaking down barriers and smashing those glass ceilings. Long may that continue.

[Rosie Duffield]

I welcome my dear friend to her position, and I know she will be absolutely brilliant. I was thrilled to attend the 30-year anniversary of the first women ordained at Canterbury cathedral earlier this year. The service was conducted by our dear Bishop Rose, our much-loved former chaplain to the Speaker. Will my friend join me in congratulating those pioneering women, including my partner’s mother, Canon Eileen Routh, who faced a degree of hostility when entering into their new vocations some 30 years ago?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question. I happily join her in congratulating the great Bishop Rose, but also in remembering all those women who faced hostility when starting out, including her future mother-in-law, Canon Eileen Routh; she faced a lot of hostility. As I say, there is still so much work to be done, but it is so important that we celebrate these achievements, because they will spur us forward to do even more.

[Douglas McAllister (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab)]

8. What estimate the Church Commissioners have made of levels of funding required to restore parish churches and cathedrals.

[Marsha De Cordova]

Churches and cathedrals are the treasure houses of our local culture and history. The Church of England manages the largest single group of listed buildings in England—over 12,200 grade I and grade II listed buildings. The value of the work needed to maintain these buildings is estimated at £115 million annually, and the backlog for church building repairs is approximately £1 billion.

[Douglas McAllister]

There are many places of worship in perilous condition, not just in England, but in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, including in my constituency of West Dunbartonshire. The listed places of worship grant scheme, introduced by former Chancellor Gordon Brown in 2004, is UK-wide. What efforts have the Church Commissioners made to ensure that the scheme is extended beyond March 2025?

[Marsha De Cordova]

My hon. Friend will know that the Church does not receive any regular financial support from the state, and church buildings often rely on fundraising by local volunteers. The Government’s listed places of worship grant scheme is extremely helpful for all our faith communities with listed buildings across the UK, reimbursing the cost of VAT spent on repairs to those listed churches. This year, more than 5,000 Church of England buildings received support through the scheme. That is transformational for local communities, and enables work on the vital fabrics of those spaces. It is important that that funding scheme continues. The Church has written to the Treasury, along with others, and I hope that my hon. Friends in the Treasury will consider extending the scheme in the upcoming Budget later this month.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

I welcome the hon. Lady to her new role, and I associate myself with her tribute to her predecessor. In recent times, the late noble Lord Cormack in the other place convened a meeting of MPs from cathedral cities and their deans, and there are plans to resurrect that meeting. Will the hon. Lady meet me to discuss how we can support her with plans to lobby the Treasury for capital grants for our great English cathedrals, including Salisbury, to maintain their presence in our country?

[Marsha De Cordova]

Yes, I am very happy to meet the right hon. Gentleman.

The hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, representing the House of Commons Commission, was asked—

--- Later in debate ---

[Jodie Gosling (Nuneaton) (Lab)]

12. What steps the Church is taking to help ensure that people can contact and communicate with the leaders of their dioceses.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Marsha De Cordova)]

My hon. Friend’s constituency is under the jurisdiction of the diocese of Coventry, and there is currently a vacancy for the diocesan bishop. However, all the contact details for the bishop’s office, diocesan staff and cathedral staff are found on the website. Contact details for local clergy are also available on the website A Church Near You.

[Jodie Gosling]

I thank my hon. Friend for their response and welcome them to their new role, in which they are doing a brilliant job. Constituents in Nuneaton have raised concerns about finding available burial plots. Given the recent consultation from the Law Commission, can my hon. Friend please update the House on proposals to increase burial capacity in England?

[Marsha De Cordova]

The Church of England contributed to the proposals developed by the Law Commission, and they have developed those proposals sensitively to address the complex questions around burial and cremation law. All sides recognise the growing need and the pressure for burial space, and the challenges facing burial grounds and maintenance. Reusing grave spaces in churchyards in some circumstances is a long-standing and lawful practice in the Church of England, ensuring that existing remains are left undisturbed. However, some churchyards are declared full and are closed by law. They are unable to be reopened for new burials.