Oral Answers to Questions
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(1 week, 5 days ago)
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Fleur Anderson
It is hard to take lectures from the Conservative party on investment and growth. We have had a change election. We will be investing in growth. The hon. Member has only a week to wait to listen to what will be happening in the Budget. In the meantime, we are going at pace. The international investment summit brought in considerable investment for companies based in Northern Ireland. We are moving on with our industrial strategy, Invest 2035. We are investing in skills and getting people into work, and transforming our health services. That is essential so that people will want to come to Northern Ireland because of good health services, and so that they will be well enough to work. All of that is a package for investment in Northern Ireland.
Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab)
At last week’s international investment summit, the Prime Minister and the Chancellor announced a total of £63 billion of private investment into the UK economy. What steps are the Secretary of State and the Minister taking to ensure Northern Ireland is at the forefront of this Government’s effort to stimulate the investment that is needed?
Fleur Anderson
My hon. Friend is right to raise the issue of the skills gap and economic inactivity in Northern Ireland. I have met wonderful skills providers across Northern Ireland, such as the Rural Women’s Network, Bolster Community, the Superstars Club, Disability Action Northern Ireland, Ulster University and the King’s Trust. A wealth of work is being done on good skills support, and we in the UK Government want to work with the Northern Ireland Executive to continue to provide support in that area. A reliable, bespoke skills offering is essential to futureproof Northern Ireland’s key growth sectors.
Paul Holmes (Hamble Valley) (Con)
The Minister talks about growth, but the Mid South West region growth deal, which was paused by this Government, now lies inactive with no direction, and there are reports that much-needed private sector business involvement is now withdrawing. Will the Minister accept that this Government’s handling and pausing of these growth deals was haphazard? Will she apologise to the people affected and enter urgent direct talks with businesses to get this deal back off the ground?
Fleur Anderson
The Secretary of State and I are in constant talks about such deals and with the deal providers. I know the value of these deals not just to the regions affected, but across Northern Ireland. However, the Government face a £22 billion black hole, and it is right that the Treasury considers all options on the table to address that. We will find out more in the Budget next week. The Mid South West and the Causeway Coast and Glens growth deals are being considered as part of the spending review, and the Government will continue to work closely with the deals’ partners and the Executive. The Secretary of State and I will continue to underline the importance of these deals to my ministerial colleagues in the Treasury.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
We look forward to a positive conclusion to those discussions next week. As the Minister knows, both representatives from the Mid South West region growth deal and the Causeway Coast and Glens growth deal are in Westminster today. Will the Minister acknowledge that, in working with businesses and in trying to encourage greater trade within our own country, the appointment of a chair of Intertrade UK was an important first step, but work needs to start, the terms of reference need to be set and businesses need to be able to engage with that body established to support trade within our country?
Hilary Benn
As I hope the hon. Gentleman is aware, Northern Ireland pet owners will not face any checks and will not be required to hold a pet travel document. In discussing this matter, there is an obligation on him and all of us to ensure that we present the facts, so that people are not unnecessarily troubled.
Alex Burghart (Brentwood and Ongar) (Con)
The Executive’s draft programme for government acknowledges that policing numbers in Northern Ireland are at an all-time low, a situation that Chief Constable Boutcher has described as dangerous. The draft programme commits to increasing numbers in line with New Decade, New Approach. Is the Secretary of State convinced that the budget sustainability plan is sufficient to achieve that aim?
Mr Speaker
Well, I think we will wait then. Let us move on. I call Dr Lauren Sullivan.
Hilary Benn
As the hon. Member will be aware, decisions about the allocation of the Northern Ireland budget rest with the Northern Ireland Executive. Funds go to the Justice Minister, who then decides principally how much to pass on to the policing board for policing costs and how much to deal with the justice system and the prisons, which are also under pressure. I recognise the pressure that PSNI officers face, not least because I met a number of those who were injured in the recent disorder.
Alex Burghart (Brentwood and Ongar) (Con)
It is very generous of you to call me again, Mr Speaker. The Executive’s draft programme for government acknowledges that policing numbers in Northern Ireland are at an all-time low, a situation that the chief constable has described as dangerous. The draft programme commits to increasing numbers in line with New Decade, New Approach. Is the Secretary of State convinced that the budget sustainability plan is sufficient to achieve that aim?
Hilary Benn
On the latter point, the hon. Gentleman just has to wait a week to see what the Budget produces. I simply say to him that the PSNI, the security services and others do an outstanding job in protecting the people of Northern Ireland from terrorist threats, and we should all support them in that endeavour.
Dr Al Pinkerton (Surrey Heath) (LD)
The budget sustainability plan highlights that Northern Ireland has been systemically underfunded, with the fiscal council estimating an annual shortfall of between £300 million and £400 million since 2022. Meanwhile, the Northern Ireland Executive reported a £559 million overspend between 2022 and 2024. What measures are the Government taking to address Northern Ireland’s immediate budgetary pressures, ensure long-term financial stability and equitable funding, and, crucially, guarantee sustainable public services?
Hilary Benn
The consultation on UK-wide labelling led the industry to say that such labelling would impose huge costs on industry, and therefore on consumers, through raised goods prices. The aim is to ensure that goods are not delisted in Northern Ireland. That is why we are taking a power to ensure that if there is any evidence of that happening, the labelling requirements set out in “Safeguarding the Union” can be applied, including on individual products on a sectoral basis.
Mr Speaker
I did not come back to Josh Newbury after Question 5, so he will ask his supplementary question now.
Josh Newbury (Cannock Chase) (Lab)
Businesses in my constituency tell me that they face increased red tape and costs when importing from or exporting to Northern Ireland. Can the Secretary of State confirm that he is committed to unfettered access for goods moving from Northern Ireland to Great Britian?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I thank my hon. Friend for his question and welcome him to his place. When this Government took office, we promised the biggest upgrade to workers’ rights in a generation—a new deal for working people. We said that we would introduce a Bill within the first 100 days, and we have kept that promise. This is a Labour Government led by working people for working people.
Sir Oliver Dowden (Hertsmere) (Con)
I join the Deputy Prime Minister in paying tribute to the bravery of Sir Chris Hoy—he truly is an inspiration to us all. I also echo her comments about the train crash in Powys.
What is the Deputy Prime Minister’s definition of working people?
The Deputy Prime Minister
We talk about economics; the architect of the 2024 Tory general election campaign is doing his victory lap before retiring with the hereditary peers that he fought so hard to protect. He leaves behind a Tory party in utter denial—heads in the sand, refusing to accept their rejection by the British public. Their plan for Britain includes scrapping the minimum wage, cutting maternity pay and tax breaks for the big oil companies. This Labour Government were elected—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Dr Evans, you have got a sore neck; I wish a little that it was your throat.
The Deputy Prime Minister
Tory Members do not like to hear it, but this Labour Government were elected to end the Tory chaos, and that is exactly what we are doing, with £600 more in the pockets of insecure workers, 30,000 new dads given paternity leave and 10 million working people better off. While their so-called leadership candidates argue about what went wrong, this Labour Government are getting on with rebuilding Britain.
The Deputy Prime Minister
I thank my hon. Friend for raising what is an emotive subject for Members on both sides of the House. From my work in this area before I was in this place, I know what incredible work this is, and what an honour it is to be there for somebody at the end of their life. Discussions have begun on how to improve access to palliative and end-of-life care, and I will ensure that my hon. Friend gets a meeting with the relevant Minister to discuss this issue.
Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD)
May I associate myself and the Liberal Democrats with the Deputy Prime Minister’s remarks about Chris Hoy, and about all those involved in the train crash?
Our NHS is bracing itself for a winter crisis. One of the causes of the winter crisis every year is that there are thousands of people in hospitals who are fit to go home, but who cannot be discharged because there are not the care workers in place to enable people to recover at home or in a care home. Will the Deputy Prime Minister consider the Liberal Democrats’ idea of an NHS winter taskforce to winter-proof our NHS, end the cycle of the winter crisis, and put to an end the scandal of hospital patients paying the price of the social care crisis left by the Conservatives?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I thank my hon. Friend and welcome him, and his expertise in the National Crime Agency, to this place. He knows that we inherited an asylum system in chaos. As he rightly says, these are people—women and children. We are putting in place a credible plan to protect our borders and remove those with no right to be here by setting up our border security command, backed by £75 million of investment. We are working with our international partners to target and disrupt the criminal smuggling gangs.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
Northern Ireland City Deals
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(3 weeks, 5 days ago)
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Urgent Questions are proposed each morning by backbench MPs, and up to two may be selected each day by the Speaker. Chosen Urgent Questions are announced 30 minutes before Parliament sits each day.
Each Urgent Question requires a Government Minister to give a response on the debate topic.
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Hilary Benn)
As the Chancellor set out in July, the Government have inherited a £22 billion black hole in the public finances. As a result, the Treasury is having to consider a range of measures to deal with this significant problem. Last month, the Treasury informed the Northern Ireland Department of Finance that the UK Government’s contributions to the Mid South West deal and the Causeway Coast and Glens deal would now be considered as part of the spending review. The Belfast regional city deal and the Derry/Londonderry and Strabane city deal are unaffected and proceeding as planned. Since the announcement of the pause on those two deals, I have met with the First Minister, the Deputy First Minister, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and the Northern Ireland Finance Minister. I will also be meeting the chief executives of those two deals shortly.
Everyone in Northern Ireland understands the importance of the city deals to economic growth and encouraging investment, and this Government are committed to working with the Northern Ireland Executive and businesses to make the most of the huge economic opportunities that now lie ahead. That is shown by the progress being made on the Belfast region city deal and the Derry/Londonderry and Strabane city deal. I attended the Derry/Londonderry and Strabane city deal signing on 18 September. The UK Government’s £105 million investment will help to progress transformative innovation, digital and health projects, which will build on the region’s well-established research excellence. The Chancellor will set out the results of the first phase of the spending review on 30 October, which will include an update on the two outstanding city deals.
Alex Burghart
As the House will know, on the evening of Friday 13 September—the day after we went into recess—the Government took it upon themselves to make a number of announcements affecting Northern Ireland: the cancellation of the Casement Park project; the decision that Sean Brown’s family will not be given a public inquiry into his murder; and the subject of this urgent question, the pausing of four Northern Ireland city deals. It is quite something to instantaneously unite all the political parties in Northern Ireland, but that was the feat achieved by the Government on the evening of Friday the 13th.
The House will be aware of how crucial the city deals are, providing significant investment to boost economic growth, create jobs and enhance infrastructure and bringing together Westminster, Belfast, local councils and private investment. We are pleased that the following day, after considerable confusion, the Government U-turned and announced that the Belfast region city deal and the Derry and Strabane city deal would go ahead, but the other two regional growth deals—the Causeway Coast and Glens deal and the Mid South West deal—now sit in limbo.
Critically, those deals cover areas that have not had the same levels of investment in recent years as big cities. One need only look at the empty shops in Enniskillen and Armagh to understand that these deals are badly needed. Can the Secretary of State tell the House why was the decision to pause taken at such a time and why was it announced in such a way? Following that announcement, why was there then a U-turn on two of the deals but not the other two? What criteria were used to make that decision?
The Secretary of State has referred to money. He knows that the so-called black hole, for which the Government have provided no breakdown, is partially of Labour’s making, given the above-inflation pay rise that it has chosen to award to the unions. He will know that the money involved is, in the world of the Exchequer, not that significant and, crucially, will deliver major returns to Northern Ireland and to the UK.
I ask the Secretary of State for two things. The first is an apology for how the matter was handled; I know he would not have wanted it to happen in the way it did, but someone should take responsibility for how the House and the people of Northern Ireland have been treated. The second is that, in negotiating with the Treasury in the run-up to the Budget, he will be the lead advocate for un-pausing those city deals.
Hilary Benn
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his response. On the matter of Casement Park, since he raised it, I will say that we took the decision for the reason we set out, and I think it is one that he supports. On the question of Sean Brown, I set out in my letter to the family why I had reached the conclusion that I did.
I would just correct the hon. Gentleman: the Belfast city deal was never affected at all—it is roaring ahead and is a great success. In the case of Derry, I was pleased to attend the signing of the deal, which will now progress to its next stage.
I would also simply say to the hon. Gentleman that the public finances inheritance the last Government left us—[Interruption.] Well, the last Government made a load of promises but never identified where the money to pay for them would come from, and then they were turfed out and left this Government to deal with the problem. That is the reason for the situation with these two city deals. He can rest assured that I, as Secretary of State, will continue to make the case for the two city deals, which is why I said in my opening answer to him that everybody in Northern Ireland, including me, understands their importance, and I will continue to make that case. But in those circumstances, the Chancellor has found it necessary to look at a whole range of commitments that were made by the last Government for which no funding had been identified, and the fault for that does not lie with us, and if any apologies are required, a belated apology from the other side for the mess they left us would be much appreciated.
Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab)
Cities and towns in Northern Ireland have already missed out on levelling-up funding under the previous Government, as I saw at first hand as shadow Minister, so the uncertainty regarding the city deals has been quite a hard hit on the people in Northern Ireland. I seek further reassurances from the Secretary of State that the people of Northern Ireland will not be overlooked in the Budget.
Hilary Benn
I absolutely recognise the uncertainty that this has created and, as I have indicated, I will be meeting the chief executives of the two deals very shortly. Given the uncertainty while we await the outcome of the first phase of the spending review, the particular problem that they face is that a lot of effort goes into progressing these deals with the private partners, because the money comes from the Government and from the Northern Ireland Executive in the form of match funding, and then other partners, including the local councils, and they do find themselves in a difficult position— I will not hide from that.
The only other thing I would say is that those two deals are much further back in the process than those for Belfast and Derry; for the Causeway Coast and Glens deal the heads of terms had been signed in April of this year, and for the Mid South West deal the terms had yet to be signed—I think they were due last month. Then there is a further process under which the programme of the deal itself is developed to then get to the stage that Derry reached on 18 September, when the financial agreement is signed and then the business case and the projects are unlocked. So I recognise that it is difficult and, as I have already indicated to the councils, I will continue to argue for the cause of these deals.
Dr Al Pinkerton (Surrey Heath) (LD)
The four city and growth deals for Northern Ireland are critical mechanisms in revitalising industries and creating new economic opportunities across key regions in Northern Ireland. The pause in UK Government funding has caused, by the Secretary of State’s own admission, uncertainty, anxiety and lost impetus in key investment projects under the city and growth deals framework. The Mid South West deal represents over £250 million of investment across the region. The decision to allow projects in Belfast and Derry to proceed while pausing those in the Mid South West and Causeway regions risks reproducing the very imbalances that these deals were designed to tackle, widening inequities and inequalities across Northern Ireland. I have had the opportunity to speak to the hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sorcha Eastwood), who brought to my attention the risks posed to the agri-bio innovation centre in Dromore by the Government’s withdrawal of secure funding.
Therefore, on behalf of Northern Irish businesses, councils and residents, especially those in the poorest regions, I ask the Secretary of State the following questions. What actions are the Government taking to mitigate those regional economic imbalances and to tackle inequalities, especially in the Mid South West, and what assurances can be provided that rural areas will not be forgotten, again especially in the Mid South West and the Causeway Coast?
Mr Speaker
Order. You are allowed one minute and you are now well over that, so I am sure you are coming to the end this very second.
Patrick Finucane Murder
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(1 month, 3 weeks ago)
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The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Hilary Benn)
With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement about the death of Patrick Finucane.
Patrick Finucane was a human rights lawyer. On 12 February 1989, he was brutally murdered in his home in north Belfast by loyalist paramilitary group the Ulster Defence Association, in front of his wife, Geraldine, who was wounded, and his three children, one of whom is now the hon. Member for Belfast North (John Finucane). From that day onwards, Mrs Finucane and her family have campaigned tirelessly in search of answers about the killing of their loved one.
In 1990 an inquest was opened and closed on the same day with an open verdict. Subsequently, a number of investigations and reviews were conducted. In 2001, following the collapse of power sharing, the UK and Irish Governments agreed at Weston Park to establish public inquiries into a number of troubles-related cases, if recommended by an international judge. Judge Peter Cory was appointed to conduct a review of each case, and in 2004 he recommended that the UK Government hold public inquiries into four deaths: those of Rosemary Nelson, Robert Hamill, Billy Wright and Patrick Finucane. Judge Cory also recommended that the Irish Government establish a tribunal of inquiry into the deaths of former Royal Ulster Constabulary officers Bob Buchanan and Harry Breen. Inquiries were promptly established in all those cases, with one exception: the death of Mr Finucane.
Meanwhile, in 2003, the third investigation by Sir John Stevens into alleged collusion between the security forces and loyalist paramilitaries had concluded that there had been state collusion in Mr Finucane’s killing. That investigation was followed by the conviction in 2004 of one of those responsible, Ken Barrett. With criminal proceedings concluded, the then Northern Ireland Secretary, Paul Murphy, made a statement to Parliament setting out the Government’s commitment to establishing an inquiry, but despite a number of attempts, the Government were unable to reach agreement with the Finucane family on arrangements for one.
In 2011, the coalition Government decided against an inquiry. Instead, a review of what had happened, led by Sir Desmond de Silva QC, was established. Sir Desmond concluded that he was left
“in no doubt that agents of the state were involved in carrying out serious violations of human rights up to and including murder.”
The publication of his findings in 2012 led the then Prime Minister, David Cameron, to make from this Dispatch Box an unprecedented apology to the Finucane family on behalf of the British Government, citing the
“shocking levels of state collusion”—[Official Report, 12 December 2012; Vol. 555, c. 296.]
in this case.
In 2019, the Supreme Court found that all the previous investigations had been insufficient to enable the state to discharge its obligations under article 2 of the European convention on human rights. The Court identified a number of deficiencies in the state’s compliance with article 2. In particular, Sir Desmond’s review did not have the power to compel the attendance of witnesses; those who met Sir Desmond were not subject to testing as to the accuracy of their evidence; and a potentially critical witness was excused from attendance. In November 2020, the then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland announced that he would not establish a public inquiry at that time, pending the outcome of continuing investigations, but that decision was quashed by the Northern Ireland High Court in December 2022.
This Government take our human rights obligations, and our responsibilities towards victims and survivors of the troubles, extremely seriously. The plain fact is that, two decades on, the commitment made by the Government to establish an inquiry into the death of Mr Finucane—first in the agreement with the Irish Government, and then to this House—remains unfulfilled. It is for that exceptional reason that I have decided to establish an independent inquiry into the death of Patrick Finucane, under the Inquiries Act 2005.
I have, of course, met Mrs Finucane and her family—first on 25 July to hear their views, and again yesterday to inform them of my decision. Mrs Finucane asked the Government to set up a public inquiry under the 2005 Act, and, as I have just told the House, the Government have now agreed to do that, in line with the 2019 Supreme Court ruling and the Court of Appeal judgment of July this year.
In making this decision, I have, as is required, considered the likely costs and impact on the public finances. It is the Government’s expectation that the inquiry will, while doing everything that is required to discharge the state’s human rights obligations, avoid unnecessary costs, given all the previous reviews and investigations and the large amount of information and material that is already in the public domain. Indeed, in the most recent High Court proceedings, the judge suggested that an inquiry could
“build on the significant investigative foundations which are already in place”.
As part of my decision-making process, I also considered whether to refer the case to the Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery. The commission has powers comparable to those provided by the 2005 Act to compel witnesses and to secure the disclosure of relevant documents by state bodies—powers identified by the Supreme Court as being crucial for the Government to discharge their human rights obligations.
The commission was found, in separate proceedings in February this year, by the High Court to be sufficiently independent and capable of conducting article 2-compliant investigations, and while I am committed to considering measures to further strengthen the commission, I have every confidence in its ability, under the leadership of Sir Declan Morgan, to find answers for survivors and families. However, given the unique circumstances of the case, and the solemn commitment made by the Government in 2001 and again in 2004, the only appropriate way forward is to establish a public inquiry.
Many of us in this House remember the savage brutality of the troubles—a truly terrible time in our history—and we must never forget that most of the deaths and injuries were the responsibility of paramilitaries, including the Ulster Defence Association, the Provisional IRA and others. We should also always pay tribute to the work during that time of the armed forces, police and security services, the vast majority of whom served with distinction and honour, and so many of whom sacrificed their lives in protecting others.
It is very hard for any of us to understand fully the trauma of those who lost loved ones—sons and daughters, spouses and partners, fathers and mothers—and what they have been through. There is of course nothing that any of us can do to bring them back or erase the deep pain that was caused, but what we can do is seek transparency to help provide answers to families and work together for a better future for Northern Ireland, which has made so much progress since these terrible events. I hope that the inquiry will finally provide the information that the Finucane family has sought for so long.
The Government will seek to appoint a chair of the inquiry and establish its terms of reference as soon as possible, and I will update the House further. I commend this statement to the House.
Oral Answers to Questions
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(3 months, 1 week ago)
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Hilary Benn
I will readily give the hon. Member that assurance. I have met with all the party leaders, and the commitment to consultation that I have just given to my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Adam Jogee) will extend to all the parties in Northern Ireland.
Alex Burghart (Brentwood and Ongar) (Con)
I warmly welcome the right hon. Gentleman to his place. I know he brings considerable qualities to his role, and I look forward to working with him on behalf of all the people in Northern Ireland. I pay tribute to his predecessor, the right hon. Chris Heaton-Harris, who did such an excellent job and is much missed on the Conservative Benches.
I very much welcome the positive meetings that the Secretary of State has had with all parties since he was appointed. Following those meetings, may I ask him to reassure the House that on his watch, he will be an active supporter of the Union and an advocate for it?
Hilary Benn
I certainly do agree. All Governments, including the Northern Ireland Executive, have the money they have coming in, the money they can raise in addition, and how they will prioritise their spending. The Northern Ireland Executive have more funding per head of population than England, and it is for the Executive to take decisions about what their priorities are, and allocate funding accordingly.
Paul Holmes (Hamble Valley) (Con)
I welcome the Secretary of State and the Minister of State to their positions, and thank them for their gracious phone call last week to welcome me and my hon. Friend the Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart) to our positions. On Monday, the Business Secretary slipped out a written statement, rather than coming to this House, revealing that the Government have decided not to proceed with an export development guarantee, or emergency loans that would save Harland and Wolff, despite its unique role and outstanding defence contract. Will the Secretary of State use his position to continue the support that the previous Government gave to Northern Ireland, and make it clear to the Treasury that the people of Northern Ireland expect the Government to intervene in this case, and support Harland and Woolf, as is desperately needed?
Fleur Anderson
I can confirm again that the veterinary medicines working group will continue. We recognise its importance, and we will continue to work at pace on a long-term solution, because continuity of supply and knowing about it well in advance of next December is very important.
Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)
I welcome the Secretary of State and his team to their place, and I associate myself with the remarks of the hon. Member for Belfast South and Mid Down (Claire Hanna). I can only hope that the success of the hurling at the weekend means that the BBC will consider showing the shinty-hurling international that takes place every year.
I welcome attempts by the new Government to continue to rebuild trust with Northern Ireland political parties and to improve relations with the European Union, which offers the opportunity to reduce trade frictions between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Could the Secretary of State set out what he is doing with ministerial colleagues and other Departments to open the door to securing a veterinary agreement with the EU, which will further reduce those barriers to trade?
Hilary Benn
There is no doubt that the change in our trading relationship with the European Union has brought additional costs and paperwork for businesses, whether they are selling to the EU or into Northern Ireland. The Windsor framework is the means by which we are trying to manage that. I supported the Windsor framework, negotiated by the previous Government, because it represented an important and significant step forward. The reason why we have to continue to implement it is because if we are going to get the veterinary and SPS agreement, and other agreements we are seeking with the European Union—
Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)
The Anglo-Irish agreement is absolutely vital, and the meeting between the Prime Minister and the Taoiseach is to be welcomed. Prime Ministers’ diaries become very full; will the Secretary of State use his good offices to ensure that that dialogue between Taoiseach and Prime Minister continues to build on that relationship to see it flourish still further?
Hilary Benn
I can indeed give that assurance. My right hon. and learned Friend the Prime Minister has agreed there will be an annual summit.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
Does the Secretary of State agree with me that it is important that, in discussions with the Irish Government, they understand that the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland, whether they consider themselves to be British, Irish or Northern Irish, can see that it is the United Kingdom context that allows them that diversity, and that improving the lives of present generations is the best way to preserve the lives of everyone for the future?
Hilary Benn
I join the hon. Gentleman in that commitment to improving the lives of the people of Northern Ireland. As a Government, we are committed to working on that with him and all his colleagues in Northern Ireland.
Mr Speaker
I welcome the Prime Minister, the Leader of the Opposition and all new Members to the first questions to the Prime Minister in this Parliament.
The Prime Minister
I welcome my hon. Friend back to her place. Our guiding principle must be the wellbeing of children. This is a serious Government, and we will approach that question with care, not with inflammatory dividing lines. The Cass review was clear that there is not enough evidence on the long-term impact of puberty blockers to know whether they are safe. The Health Secretary will consult organisations supporting young people and families, and I will ensure that there is a meeting with my hon. Friend and the relevant Minister as soon as that can be arranged.
Rishi Sunak (Richmond and Northallerton) (Con)
I join the Prime Minister in expressing my shock at the attack on a British soldier. Our thoughts are with him and his family as we wish him a speedy recovery.
I also join the Prime Minister in his warm words about our Olympic athletes. I have no doubt that after years of training, focus and dedication they will bring back many gold medals—although, to be honest, I am probably not the first person they want to hear advice from on how to win. [Interruption.]
I am glad that in our exchanges so far we have maintained a cross-party consensus on important matters of foreign policy, and in that spirit I wanted to focus our exchange today on Ukraine and national security. The UK has consistently been the first country to provide Ukraine with new capabilities, such as the long-range weapons that have been used so effectively in the Black sea. Those decisions are not easy, and I was grateful to the Prime Minister for his support as I made those decisions in government. In opposition, I offer that same support to him. Will he continue to be responsive to Ukraine’s new requests, so that it does not just stand still but can decisively win out against Russian aggression?
The Prime Minister
Of course I wish them good luck. I admire them; I am not sure I envy them—it is 280 miles—but it is a brilliant cause. The whole House misses our dear friend Jo, and I know that she would have been incredibly proud to have seen this Government in place and would have played a big part it in. I welcome my hon. Friend back to her place, and I know that she will continue in Jo’s spirit, with the same dedication and determination. I think I am right in saying that her parents—and, of course, Jo’s parents—are in the Gallery today to see this first PMQs. We will always have more in common than that which divides us.
Ed Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD)
I welcome the Prime Minister to his place for his first Prime Minister’s questions. I associate myself and my party with the comments he made about the appalling attack on the soldier in Kent. Our thoughts are with his family, friends and comrades. I also associate my party with his comments on Team GB—we want them to succeed in Paris.
The Prime Minister has inherited many messes, and one is the scandal of the carer’s allowance repayments. An example is my constituent Andrea, who is a full-time carer for her elderly mum. She went back to work part time—mainly for her mental health, she tells me—and was earning less than £7,000 a year. She has been hit by a bill from the Department for Work and Pensions for £4,600. Andrea is just one of the tens of thousands of carers facing these repayments. They are being punished for working and earning just a few pounds more than the earnings limit. Will the Prime Minister agree to meet me and other family carers to try to resolve this matter?
Mr Speaker
Order. Props are not allowed—put it down. We do not need any more.
The Prime Minister
We have already set up a taskforce to put that vigour in place, as well as introducing free breakfast clubs in every primary school, abolishing no-fault evictions, reviewing the decent homes standard, adopting Awaab’s law and having a plan to make work pay. Before the right hon. Gentleman lectures everyone else, he should explain why, since the SNP came to power, there are 30,000 more children in poverty in Scotland.
The Prime Minister
I thank my hon. Friend for raising this; it is such a serious issue. We have made a commitment—a mission—to halve violence against women and girls. I know from my experience dealing with these cases, as a prosecutor and subsequently, just how hard that will be to achieve. We will have to deliver in a different way; we will have to roll up our sleeves and do difficult things that have not been done in the past. In answer to the specific question, we have already started work on the delivery board, and I look forward to updating my hon. Friend and the House on our progress on this really important issue.
Northern Ireland
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(9 months, 1 week ago)
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Mr Speaker
We now come to motion 1, on the draft Windsor Framework (Constitutional Status of Northern Ireland) Regulations. If the House gives leave, this can be debated with motion 2, on the draft Windsor Framework (UK Internal Market and Unfettered Access) Regulations. Is there an objection?
Mr Speaker
Since there has been an objection to the two motions being debated together, we will take them separately.
Northern Ireland Executive Formation
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(9 months, 1 week ago)
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The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Chris Heaton-Harris)
With permission, I will make a statement on Northern Ireland Executive formation.
This Saturday would mark two years without a fully functioning devolved Government in Northern Ireland. That is two years without locally elected Ministers able to take important decisions on Northern Ireland’s schools and hospitals and the broader economy, and above all, it is two years in which Northern Ireland has been held back from achieving the massive potential of this unique part of the United Kingdom.
It was nearly two years ago that the then First Minister resigned over the old Northern Ireland protocol. The Government recognised that the protocol did not deliver to the people of Northern Ireland the same freedoms that leaving the European Union delivered for the rest of the United Kingdom. As the party of the Union, this Conservative Government have sought to address those concerns by replacing the protocol with the Windsor framework. I maintain that the Windsor framework was, and is, a good deal for Northern Ireland that addresses the issues around the old protocol and sets out a new way forward. However, it alone did not prove sufficient to allow the devolved institutions to function with the cross-community support that is such an essential bedrock of the Belfast/Good Friday agreement.
As such, for the past few months, my team and I have been holding discussions with the Northern Ireland political parties on how we could see the return of devolved institutions. Those discussions have been long and necessarily tough, but that is testament to the patience of all Northern Ireland’s political leaders, who—as I have seen at first hand—work tirelessly to make sure that Northern Ireland is the most prosperous and safe society it can be. One of the people I have been talking to most is the hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson). It has been a pleasure to work with him on these matters, and it was also a pleasure to confirm recently that the Government will support his Bill that seeks to create a dedicated route for eligible Irish nationals who wish to apply for British citizenship. If passed, that legislation would support the close historical and geographical ties between Ireland and the UK, and I commend him on championing that cause.
I am also pleased to be able to outline today the package of measures we are announcing, which has four key elements. First, it further protects Northern Ireland’s place in the United Kingdom by demonstrating our commitment to restoring power sharing so that it has the broadest support from across the community in Northern Ireland. I know that I am not alone in believing firmly that the long-term interests of the Union are served by persuading those who might not vote for Unionist parties, or even think of themselves as Unionists, that Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom offers the best solution for them and their children. I have always believed that making Northern Ireland work—indeed, making Northern Ireland thrive—is the surest way to safeguard the Union, and I commend all Unionists on taking bold steps to make that case for the Union, too.
We will also legislate to reaffirm Northern Ireland’s constitutional status, including as reflected in the Acts of Union. We will also recognise in domestic law that, with the vital democratic safeguard of the Stormont brake that a new Assembly would wield, the idea of automatic and permanent dynamic alignment of EU law no longer applies. We will also future-proof Northern Ireland’s position within the UK’s internal market against any future protocol that would create a new EU law alignment for Northern Ireland, and with it, barriers between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom.
Secondly, the deal promotes and strengthens the UK internal market, delivering new legislation to guarantee and future-proof unfettered access for Northern Ireland goods to the whole of the UK internal market, and ensuring that internal trade within the United Kingdom takes place under a new UK internal market system. Only yesterday, we saw how quickly progress has been made, with a joint legal solution reached with the European Union on tariff rate quotas. That solution, which will be taken forward at the next UK-EU Joint Committee, will ensure that Northern Ireland traders can benefit from the UK’s independent free trade policy when importing agrifood goods, reflecting Northern Ireland’s integral place in the UK’s customs territory. To maintain that focus on delivering in the interests of businesses for the future, we will put in place new structures, such as a new independent monitoring panel to ensure a practical and pragmatic approach without gold-plating.
Thirdly, the deal will recognise the importance of the connections across the United Kingdom, now and in the future. A new UK-wide east-west economic council will bring businesses and Ministers together to identify the opportunities that unite us across all parts of the United Kingdom, and a new body—InterTrade UK—will promote and facilitate trade within the United Kingdom, recognising that while international trade is important, so too is the vital trade that occurs within our internal market.
Finally, the deal will help put Northern Ireland’s public services on a sustainable footing, with funding totalling over £3 billion to support public services in Northern Ireland and provide a solid foundation for the Executive to deliver better outcomes in the day-to-day lives of the people in Northern Ireland. That funding is part of a financial package I announced before Christmas that will help address public sector pay pressures; provide an updated Barnett formula for Northern Ireland, now and into the future, reflecting the needs and unique circumstances of the people of Northern Ireland; and give the Executive significant funding to stabilise public finances.
Much of what I am announcing today is the result of a significant period of negotiations between the Government and the Democratic Unionist party, led by the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson). Many of us in this Chamber last week could not have failed to be struck by his unshakeable advocacy on behalf of the Unionist cause. That same determination, fortitude and tact was at the heart of his approach during those detailed discussions, and further to the right hon. Member’s comments in this place last week, I am absolutely sure that the whole House will join me in expressing support for him in utterly condemning those shameless figures who have tried to threaten and intimidate him for simply doing his job. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] The right hon. Member is a man who is truly committed to Northern Ireland. He is truly committed to the Union, and has always worked hard to find solutions and improvements when others have taken the far easier path of simply criticising and heckling from the sidelines.
The result—as I hope hon. Members will agree—is a deal that, taken as a whole, is the right one for Northern Ireland and for the Union. With this package, it is now time for elected representatives in Northern Ireland to come together, end the two years of impasse and start work again in the interests of the people who elected them. This week, the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley was clear that this depended on the Government demonstrating their commitment to the Union, not just in word but in deed. That is exactly what we will do. Today, I am publishing the details of the deal, but I am also laying before the House the statutory instruments that enshrine several of its commitments in law. Those instruments will be debated in this place tomorrow, subject to a change in its future business with the will of the House, as an immediate show of good faith.
Once those instruments are passed by this House, as I hope they will be, I trust we will have the conditions to move onwards and to see Ministers back in post in Stormont swiftly. As those Ministers take their places, they will face massive challenges, but they have the tools to grasp those challenges, not least in moving to resolve the public sector pay issues that have been so disruptive. They will also be able to grasp the opportunities offered by Northern Ireland’s unique economic position and the good will that it enjoys across the world.
It is only right that I acknowledge that, for many in the community, an important part of this will be seeing Michelle O’Neill take her place as First Minister following the democratic mandate she won at the May 2022 Assembly election, recognising that the First and Deputy First Ministers remain equal in law. I look forward to working with the new First Minister and Deputy First Minister and all their colleagues in the Northern Ireland Executive to improve the lives of people from all backgrounds, whether Unionist, nationalist or other. As we move forward swiftly to give effect to our commitments, I urge the parties to do the same thing by notifying the Speaker of the Northern Ireland Assembly to recall Stormont, electing a First Minister and Deputy First Minister, and appointing new Ministers to the Executive.
It is time to build on the progress of the last 25 years. Today, we have presented a plan that will deliver the long-term change that Northern Ireland needs. It will strengthen Northern Ireland’s place in our Union and guarantee the free flow of goods across the entire United Kingdom. It is only by sticking to this plan that we will become a more united and prosperous country together, and I commend this statement to the House.
Chris Heaton-Harris
I thank the shadow Secretary of State for his very kind words and for all the work he has done with me on these matters. I really do appreciate the way we have been able to work together. It has contributed to our getting to this point and it has made a big difference, so I thank him for that.
The shadow Secretary of State is completely right that everyone in this House will need to work together to ensure stability for Northern Ireland and to ensure that the institutions do not fall again. It is vital that we all understand the responsibility that sits with us in this place: we are guarantors of the Belfast/Good Friday agreement. We have a responsibility to the people of Northern Ireland, and in every way we should consider that in everything we do, because this Union is stronger for it.
The shadow Secretary of State asked some questions. We hope to have the UK internal market lane in operation as soon as possible, and we obviously need some legal changes—I mean, other changes—to have that done. The money will flow as soon as the new Executive is up and running, and I very much hope that a new Executive will be sitting very soon.
Sir Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)
I warmly commend the hard work of my right hon. Friend—and good friend—the Secretary of State. It is only a week ago that we passed legislation to extend the election period, and heard the impressive and powerful speech of the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson). He has demonstrated, with his colleagues in the DUP, that to lead is to choose and to make difficult decisions. They have done that, and I think respect and praise are due in large measure for their hard work.
I am particularly pleased that the Command Paper incorporates many of the sensible recommendations from the hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson), which we share, on further legislation to make sure that the position of Northern Ireland within the UK internal market is absolutely cemented. I am particularly pleased that the Command Paper looks forward to new investment—not just the important investment in public services, but the enhanced investment zone proposal of £150 million, which will be at the centre of how we attract new inward investment to realise the huge potential that Northern Ireland presents for jobs and the economy both here in the UK and across the wider world.
It is tempting for this Parliament, once it passes the secondary legislation, to say that the job is done, but we cannot afford to devolve and forget. Will my right hon. Friend assure me that this Government will not devolve and forget?
Chris Heaton-Harris
I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for his welcome for this package of measures. It is a package, and it has been negotiated over a long period of time, with a better understanding of all the things that Northern Ireland needs to be an active and wonderful part of the Union. I welcome his comments on the investment zone, and he is absolutely correct in what he said at the end. Northern Ireland will never be forgotten in this place, and I hope we are demonstrating that today.
Oral Answers to Questions
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(11 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Chris Heaton-Harris
With the greatest respect to my hon. Friend, I do not accept that. When we agreed to the Windsor framework, we committed to a certain number of EU laws being maintained in Northern Ireland, which has been of economic benefit to Northern Ireland even up to this point and will continue to be in future. Pretty much everybody involved in movements across the Irish sea—the businesses involved, including the new businesses using them—believe that they are simple and very straightforward.
Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)
Further to that excellent question from the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis), our objective is to ensure that Northern Ireland’s place in our biggest market, the United Kingdom, is restored and protected in law. Will the Secretary of State work with us to ensure that, where goods are moving from Great Britain to Northern Ireland, they are not subject to EU customs processes that are neither necessary nor fair and right? Save for reasons of animal health and the risk of smuggling, there should not be checks on those goods.
Mr Baker
My right hon. and learned Friend is right to highlight the issue. A number of things have been said about this matter that are not the case. The money will be made available in Northern Ireland, and it has been set aside. If memory serves, it is about £15 million, but I would need to double-check—if I am incorrect, I will write to him. The reality is that we need decisions to be taken by a restored Executive, and the Government are keen to work with Northern Ireland Ministers to that end. I am grateful to him for highlighting this point and giving me the opportunity to say that the money will be spent in Northern Ireland.
Fleur Anderson (Putney) (Lab)
Following on from that question, communities across Northern Ireland are angry about the Government’s decision to exclude them from the latest round of levelling-up funding. The Government have said that is because Stormont is not sitting, but that is a poor excuse, because round 2 funding was allocated to 10 projects in Northern Ireland in January this year, when the Executive were also not in place. Only £120 million of the pot of £5 billion has been allocated to Northern Ireland so far. There is a huge additional need in communities, but millions is being held back, as the Minister has just said. Will the Secretary of State commit to reversing this unjust decision with immediate effect?
Mr Baker
The hon. Lady makes her point with great force but, as I just said to my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for South Swindon (Sir Robert Buckland), the money will be spent in Northern Ireland. We are keen to work with Northern Ireland Ministers to that effect. When it comes to the overall level of money required, the hon. Lady will know that we have just put more than £700 million into PEACEPLUS, which will help support Northern Ireland. The reality is that we are working hard to ensure that Northern Ireland has the funding it needs, but in order to sort out the problems that Northern Ireland faces, we need a restored Executive and, I am afraid, revenue raising. We need to be working with Northern Ireland Ministers to make sure that we get the public service reform that is so urgently needed.
Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP)
May I associate myself with the Secretary of State’s remarks on the anniversary of the Birmingham pub bombings? Our thoughts continue to be with all who are affected by that tragedy to this day.
The UK Government, as we have just heard, are holding back levelling-up funding for Northern Ireland, ostensibly because of the lack of a functioning Executive. However, the UK Government are seemingly content to bypass the views of the Governments in place in Edinburgh and Cardiff in allocating levelling-up funding. Is the point of consistency not about a desire to level up, but just that there is a shortage of Conservative MPs in Northern Ireland who need to shore up their re-election prospects with public cash?
Mr Baker
The hon. Member is absolutely right to raise that. She will know that such matters are mostly for the Department for Infrastructure in Northern Ireland. That is why we are so keen to get the finances on a sustainable basis and achieve the long-term change that is needed. That, of course, includes having a strategic plan for adaptation. I hope to have the opportunity in this role to work with a Northern Ireland Executive to those ends.
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
I join the Secretary of State in his remarks about all those who lost their lives in the terrible Birmingham pub bombings. We remember them.
Last week, in Downpatrick, Newry and Portadown, I saw the terrible effects of the flooding on businesses and households, many of whom cannot get flood insurance and therefore face huge losses. Can the Minister assure us that once the initial £7,500 has been paid out to all businesses from the money that the Secretary of State announced during his visit, the Treasury will approve proposals for the use of the rest of the money quickly so that businesses affected can receive help and get back up and running again? If more is needed, will he provide it?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend is right. I am proud that since 2010 we have created 5.5 million apprenticeships. That is the difference between us. We now know that the Labour party wants to halve the number of apprenticeships if it is in office. Meanwhile, we want to make an apprentice Education Secretary. My hon. Friend is right. Labour’s plans to borrow £28 billion a year would just push up inflation, interest rates and taxes, undermining all the progress we have made on the economy. It is only the Conservatives who will give people the opportunity to build wealthier, more secure lives for them and their families.
Keir Starmer (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)
Like the Prime Minister, I know the whole House will welcome the agreement reached overnight. We repeat our calls for Hamas to release all hostages immediately. This humanitarian pause must be used to get the hostages out safely, to tackle the urgent and unacceptable humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza, and to make progress to a full cessation of hostilities. In recent years, the international community has treated the two-state solution as a slogan, rather than a serious strategy. That must now change.
Like the Prime Minister, I am also sure that I speak for everyone in the House in saying that our hearts go out to the families and friends of the four young men from Shrewsbury who tragically lost their lives this week. It is a living nightmare for any parent, and I can hardly begin to imagine their loss.
This week, the Prime Minister unveiled the latest version of his five pledges for the country. Let us hope that he has more success with these than he did with the last ones. Did he forget the NHS?
The Prime Minister
I thank my hon. Friend for his excellent campaigning on behalf of his constituents. I agree with him that housing must meet the needs of local communities. Our affordable homes programme is delivering hundreds of thousands of homes across the country. Crucially, on this side of the House we believe that local communities must be consulted, in contrast to Labour’s plan for top-down housing targets, concreting over the green belt and destroying our precious countryside.
Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
I think all of us in the Chamber are united in our relief at reports that hostages are due to be released by Hamas in Gaza, but we cannot afford to lose sight of what will come at the other side of the temporary pause in hostilities that we are about to see. At the end of four days, will we simply see a return to the killing of children in Gaza every 10 minutes, or will we in this House choose instead to back a permanent ceasefire?
Darren Henry (Broxtowe) (Con)
The Prime Minister
I thank my hon. Friend for her continuing dedication as my special envoy on this vital issue. Red Wednesday is an important moment to demonstrate our solidarity with Christians and all those persecuted around the world for their religion or belief. Marking this event annually was just one of the recommendations in the Bishop of Truro’s report. I am pleased that today we will light up Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office buildings in the UK in red in support. I am also pleased to say that we have taken forward all 22 recommendations in a way that we believe is making a real change for those persecuted for their religion or belief.
Oral Answers to Questions
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(1 year, 2 months ago)
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Chris Heaton-Harris
I had a number of conversations with the former chief constable about this issue. The budget for 2023-24 gives the Department of Justice a total allocation of £1.2 billion. Obviously, recognising the unique security situation in Northern Ireland, the UK Government make additional contributions to the PSNI’s counter-terrorism work through the additional security funding. The UK contribution for 2022-23 is £32 million. I am fully aware of the obvious issues that we talked about in the recent urgent question, and I am sure that we will get on to those a bit later in questions.
Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)
I wish my right hon. Friend a happy anniversary. I also thank, as he did, the outgoing shadow team and welcome the new. He is right to reference the recent data breach, which will have very much changed the backdrop of the morale of the police in Northern Ireland—and not just officers, but those in support services. Budgets are under pressure, as we know, but the security and safety of serving officers and those who work for the PSNI is always important, particularly post the data breach, given the potential risks from dissidents that that creates. Can he assure me that he will do all he can to deliver safety equipment, protection and security for those who are feeling most vulnerable at this time?
Mr Baker
We will continue to work for the people of Northern Ireland, respecting the devolution settlement. For example, in recognition of the cost of living pressures faced by workers across the UK, the Government increased the national minimum wage rate by 9.7%, to £10.42 per hour for workers aged 23 and over, at the spring Budget. We will continue to be seized of the need to help those least well off.
Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP)
The cost of living crisis is clearly continuing to bite hard in Northern Ireland, with footfall at stores across Northern Ireland falling by 5% throughout August. What steps is the Department taking to enable people to take full advantage of the highly privileged economic status and market access that Northern Ireland now has, which this Government have deprived to the rest of the UK?
Chris Heaton-Harris
I thank the former Secretary of State for that question; he is absolutely right. We have been listening in great detail to the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson), the DUP leader, and his team of negotiators over the course of the summer. We have had very detailed negotiations and I believe we are homing in on what is actually required. That might well mean we need conversations elsewhere, but let us see where we get to in the course of the next couple of days.
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
The Windsor framework, which was agreed seven months ago, was a great achievement, but it was also intended to enable the restoration of power sharing in Northern Ireland. That has not happened. What is the Government’s plan? The Secretary of State refers to the conversations he is having, but what is the plan to get Stormont back up and running?
Fleur Anderson (Putney) (Lab)
Early years services are vital for children to reach their potential, but they are underfunded and at risk in Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK without a childcare strategy. According to the Department for Education, it was delayed again because early years faces potential significant budget reductions. When can hard-pressed families in Northern Ireland expect the childcare strategy? Will the Minister commit to early years services receiving the increased multi-year funding that is needed to invest in children?
Mr Louie French (Old Bexley and Sidcup) (Con)
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend. It is disappointing that last week the Labour leader allowed the Labour Mayor to introduce ULEZ, charging hard-working people £12.50 every time they start their car, adding to the burden of the cost of living. All I can say is that while we focus on helping hard-working families, all the Labour leader does is punish them.
Keir Starmer (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)
I join the Prime Minister in congratulating the Lionesses, and also in his comments about Sergeant Saville; I think we speak for the whole House when we speak on that subject.
I also extend the warmest welcome to my hon. Friend the new Labour Member for Selby and Ainsty (Keir Mather). He has already made history for the Labour party by overturning the largest Tory majority ever in a by-election. I also welcome the hon. Members for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Steve Tuckwell) and for Somerton and Frome (Sarah Dyke).
The roof of Singlewell Primary School in Gravesend collapsed in May 2018. Thankfully, it happened at the weekend and no children were injured. The concrete ceiling was deemed dangerous and liable to collapse, and everyone knew that the problem existed in other schools, yet the Prime Minister decided to halve the budget for school maintenance just a couple of years later. Does he agree with his Education Secretary that he should be thanked for doing a “good job”?
Mr Speaker
Order. We do not want to start off with somebody leaving early, because that is what will happen.
Keir Starmer
Well, Mr Speaker, Conservative Members want more, so let me continue. Ferryhill School in County Durham was on Labour’s building list in 2010. The Government scrapped that, and now children there are in a crumbling school. The truth is that this crisis is the inevitable result of 13 years of cutting corners, botched jobs and sticking plaster politics. It is the sort of thing you expect from cowboy builders: saying that everyone else is wrong and everyone else is to blame, and protesting that they have done an effing good job even as the ceiling falls in. The difference is that in this case, the cowboys are running the country. Is the Prime Minister not ashamed that, after 13 years of Tory Government, children are cowering under steel supports stopping their classroom roof from falling in? [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Seriously, calm down. I understand that this is the first session and people are excited to be back at school, but we expect better behaviour.
The Prime Minister
This is exactly the kind of political opportunism that we have come to expect from Captain Hindsight here. Before today, he has never once raised this issue with me across the Dispatch Box. It was not even worthy of a single—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. The same applies to those on the Labour Benches. We will have a calmer Question Time going forward, because I want to hear the questions and the answers, just like your constituents.
The Prime Minister
Before today, the right hon. and learned Gentleman never once raised this issue with me in Parliament. It was not even worthy of a single mention in his so-called landmark speech on education this summer. If we had listened to him, our kids would have been off school and locked down for longer—it is as simple as that. He talks about 13 years; well, let us see what has happened. When we came into office, two thirds of schools were rated “good” and “outstanding”; now, it is 90%. We introduced the pupil premium to get more funding to the most disadvantaged pupils. Today, they are 75% more likely to go to university. And, as a result of our reforms, we now have the best readers in the western world. That is what 13 years of education reform gets you, all of which was opposed by the Labour party.
Keir Starmer
The Prime Minister claims to be a man of detail, but there have been 100 parliamentary questions from the Opposition on this issue, and an Opposition day motion. Let us continue: Holy Family Catholic School in Bradford was on the Labour building list in 2010. The Government scrapped that, and now children there too are in a crumbling school—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Mr Holden, I have heard enough. This is the last time; make up your mind. Either you go now or you are quiet for the remainder.
Keir Starmer
If you can believe it, Mr Speaker, in April this year, the Education Secretary signed a contract for refurbishment of her offices. It has her personal stamp of approval on it. It cost—I cannot quite believe this—£34 million. Can the Prime Minister explain to parents whose children are not at school this week why he thinks that a blank cheque for a Tory Minister’s office is better use of taxpayer’s money than stopping schools from collapsing?
The Prime Minister
I know that the right hon. and learned Gentleman comes here with prepared scripts, but he has not listened to a single fact, over six questions, about the record amounts of funding going into schools, or the incredible reforms to education impacting the most disadvantaged children in our society—a record that we are rightly proud of. Yes, we can name the schools: that is because we are reacting to information and publishing it so that we know where the issues are—something that we are still waiting for from the Welsh Government.
Of course the right hon. and learned Gentleman wants to score political points from something that we are dealing with in the right and responsible way, but I note that he has not mentioned a single other thing that has happened since we last met at the Dispatch Box. He talked about hard-working families across Britain, but what has happened to energy bills? Down. What has happened to inflation? Down. What has happened to small boat crossings? Down. And what has happened to economic growth? It has gone up. The right hon. and learned Gentleman tried time and again to talk down the British economy, but thankfully, people were not listening. His entire economic narrative has been demolished, and the Conservatives are getting on delivering for Britain. [Hon. Members: “More!”]
Nicola Richards (West Bromwich East) (Con)
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend is exactly right. We started by hearing how Labour in London are charging hard-working people with ULEZ, and now we are hearing about how Labour in Birmingham are failing hard-working people, losing control of taxpayers’ money and driving their finances into the ground. They have bankrupted Birmingham; we cannot let them bankrupt Britain.
Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
The public need no reminding that today marks a year since the Prime Minister’s predecessor, the right hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), took office. Upon her speedy departure, they will have thought that things were going to get better, but unemployment figures are higher, food prices are higher, mortgage rates are higher, and economic growth is stagnant. When is the Prime Minister going to get off his backside and do something about it?
Chris Law (Dundee West) (SNP)
Mr Speaker
Order. I am not going to have us both stand up; one of us is going to give way, and it will not be me. Let us think about language. Let us be more temperate and make sure that the pride of this Parliament shines through—that certainly will not be by using such language.
Chris Law
I am happy to change the offending word to “bottom”. Given that the Tories and Labour are two cheeks of the same bottom, offering no change, no vision and no hope, does the Prime Minister agree that the only way for Scottish voters to rid themselves of these heinous policies is to vote for the SNP to leave Westminster forever?
Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill
Lindsay Hoyle ExcerptsWednesday 6th September 2023
(1 year, 2 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023 View all Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Commons Consideration of Lords Message as at 6 September 2023 - (6 Sep 2023)
Jim Shannon
In several of the Secretary of State’s answers to questions from Opposition Members, he has said, “If there is extra evidence”. Has he or the British Government had the opportunity to speak to the Irish Republic Government about their role? I believe the Irish Republic Government, through the Garda Síochána, have an evidence base on the murders that were carried out by the IRA along the border. I am very conscious of Chief Superintendent Harry Breen and Bob Buchanan in 1989, Lexie Cummings in 1982 and Ian Sproule in 1991. The people who did that escaped across the border, and the Garda Síochána has indicated—
Mr Speaker
Order. I am very conscious of time. You are down to speak, and you have made your speech already. Other people need to get in. This is a very important issue, and I want to make sure that people can make their speeches.
Chris Heaton-Harris
Forgive me, Mr Speaker; I was trying to take as many interventions as possible.
Mr Speaker
I know. We all know that Mr Shannon is very good, but it is the amount of time. Interventions have to be short and punchy, not speeches. He is going to make a speech later.
Chris Heaton-Harris
I can assure the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) that I have been speaking to the Irish Government about elements of what he mentioned.
The commission will grant immunity from prosecution only if an individual provides an account that is true to the best of their knowledge and belief. We have developed a robust test for immunity, in which their account must be tested against any information that the commission holds. If an individual does not provide a truthful account of their actions that could be passed to families, or if they do not participate in the immunity process at all, immunity will not be granted and they would remain liable to prosecution should evidence exist. Where a prosecution takes place, and should a conviction be secured, an individual will not be eligible for the early release scheme under the Northern Ireland (Sentences) Act 1998. Again, that is a result of amendments made in this House.
Similarly, although I acknowledge the sentiment behind introducing licence conditions under Lords amendment 44E, I respectfully suggest that the Government have sought to address these issues through amendments that were adopted on Report in the other place. These amendments send a clear message that, once immunity is granted, individuals who are convicted of offences that could impede reconciliation will lose that immunity. In the Government’s view, this approach strikes the right balance between providing sufficient certainty as to the effect of a grant of immunity necessary to encourage participation and ensuring that there are appropriate consequences for those whose behaviour after being granted immunity is not compatible with the fundamental aims of the Bill.
The alternative proposed by the Opposition would not support an effective information recovery process, and I therefore ask that the House joins me in disagreeing to amendments 44D, 44E, 44F, 44G, 44H and 44J.
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
May I take this opportunity to welcome my hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson) to the Front-Bench team, and to express my thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi) for all the service she gave during her time as part of the shadow Northern Ireland team?
As the House will be aware, we do not support this Bill, but I do not understand why the Secretary of State is seeking to overturn the amendments tabled by Lord Murphy and passed in the other place yesterday. I listened very carefully to the arguments advanced by the Secretary of State, but I do not think they stand up, because the Lords amendments would not take away the commission’s ability to issue immunity to an individual who comes forward and gives truthful evidence about what happened. Lords amendment 44E is not a veto, but it would allow the families of those who were killed or seriously injured in the troubles to have some voice in the process—I understand that relatives of those who were murdered are with us in the Gallery, and they are still seeking justice.
Let me turn to the other provisions, relating to licence conditions that would apply to the person seeking immunity. I acknowledge what the Secretary of State just said about other changes having been made to the Bill, but these provisions seem very sensible and reasonable to me. I include in that the requirement that the individual in question should not approach or otherwise communicate with a victim, in the case of an injury, or with a victim’s family, in the case of a death, unless they consent. So we will vote against the Government’s motion to disagree with the Lords amendments today.
The Secretary of State has talked quite a bit about a disincentive to people coming forward, but I say to him that it is not entirely clear that immunity will achieve the purpose that the Government have for it. Given that every other means of justice is to be closed down, and given that the commission appears to have a lifespan of only five years, those who have committed dreadful crimes only need to sit it out. I say to the Secretary of State that if that were to happen and after the five years are over those individuals start to talk about, boast about or write books about what they have done, how will he explain to the families of those they murdered why the Government allowed that situation to arise? That would be the consequence of taking away from people, as this Bill does, the means of justice, however hard, however long, however uncertain. I acknowledge the point that the Secretary of State made about that.
This is the last occasion on which we will debate this highly controversial legislation, which concerns how we come to terms with the terrible legacy of violence and brutality during the troubles in a way that enables those most affected—the families—finally to know what happened to the person they loved and to ensure that justice is done; to hold those responsible to account. This is the first time I have talked about this, given that I was appointed only on Monday, but I recognise how hard this is and I acknowledge the changes that the Secretary of State has made to the Bill during its passage, including his comment that when he inherited it he was not happy with it. However, he must accept that this legislation does not command the confidence of the people to whom he is trying to offer reassurance and comfort.
The most important word in the title of this Bill is “reconciliation”. We all want that to happen, but the Bill has self-evidently not achieved its aim, because all the communities in Northern Ireland are clearly not reconciled to its contents. It is so striking to see the extent to which the Government have failed to win support for their approach. The list of people and organisations opposed to this Bill is frankly astonishing: all of the political parties in Northern Ireland; the Churches in Northern Ireland; victims’ groups; the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission; the former Victims’ Commissioner; the Irish Government; the Council of Europe; and the United Nations. Most extraordinary of all, it is reported that the person who has been appointed as the commissioner-designate, the highly respected Sir Declan Morgan, said recently that he would expect legal action by the families of victims of the troubles to try to challenge the Bill on whether it is compliant with the European convention on human rights.
That is the scale of the coalition that the Government have managed to range against themselves, but instead of reflecting on that, their approach has been to put their head down and plough on regardless. That is why, for all the Government’s good intentions, they have failed to win public confidence, even though the Government said in 2018:
“In order to build consensus on workable proposals that have widespread support we must listen to the concerns of victims, survivors and other interested parties.”
Doing the wrong thing is not a justification for this Bill, and if there is one lesson we must by now have learned about how to make progress in Northern Ireland, it is that it can only be achieved patiently, slowly and carefully, so as to build a consensus. I am sorry to say that the Bill does not do that and it will not achieve the purpose Ministers claim for it. That is why we are committed, as the Opposition, to repeal it, if we get the opportunity.
Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP)
I am well aware that time is limited; you will be pleased to hear, Mr Speaker, that so too is my capacity for repeating arguments that I have made many times previously. My party believes that this Bill is wrong in principle and that in practice it will not achieve the aims that the Secretary of State believes, no doubt with great sincerity, that it will. We will therefore be joining the official Opposition in voting to support the Lords amendments.
Police Service of Northern Ireland: Security and Data Protection Breach
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(1 year, 2 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
Before I call the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson) to ask the urgent question, I wish to make a short statement about the sub judice resolution. The matter of the data breach is not sub judice, but I have been advised that an individual has been charged with terrorism-related offences following the data breach. While I am content to waive the sub judice resolution in this and other proceedings to allow simple reference to the fact of the arrest, any further discussion of the circumstances of that case would not be in order.
Chris Heaton-Harris
I think that the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson) referred to it in his question as a “self-inflicted” wound, and it surely was. To be frank, checks and balances should have been in place. I completely agree with my right hon. Friend, and we will do what we can to assist the PSNI and the Department of Justice, as she would expect. We keep abreast of these matters, as I hope I detailed in my answers, but this is a really significant breach. As one police officer put it to me, “When I joined the police service, I used to think when I went to work that maybe people knew what I did for a living, but now that has completely flipped—I feel that they absolutely know what I do for a living.” That has changed the psychology around the whole piece. I know that a lot more assurances need to be given for us to get to the place that my right hon. Friend wishes to get to.
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
May I say that I look forward to working with the Secretary of State in the interests of peace, prosperity and progress in Northern Ireland?
The release of the names and workplaces of thousands of PSNI officers and staff was doubtless inadvertent, but its consequences could not be more serious. That has now been recognised by the chief constable, Simon Byrne, who is resigning—I join the Secretary of State in thanking him for his service. Those who serve in the PSNI confront great risks every day in their job to keep the public safe, and we thank them. But they already knew that dissident republicans were targeting them and their families, and now they know that those who would do them harm have this list. The damage to morale and confidence should not be underestimated. They are asking urgently, “What will be done to reassure and protect us?”
Does the Secretary of State agree that the inquiry needs to be completed as quickly as possible? Can he confirm that he will approve the appointment of the new chief constable in the absence of a Justice Minister in Northern Ireland? Does he intend to review the operation of the Northern Ireland Policing Board and how it functions? Does he recognise that there will be additional costs in protecting staff, as well as responding to potential civil claims? There were already great pressures on the Northern Ireland policing budget, and the cuts it now faces will, in the words of the PSNI, leave the service “smaller…less visible, less accessible and less responsive”.
Finally, the whole House wants to ensure that the staff get the support, protection and reassurance they need, but to succeed in doing that we need leadership from the Government and the political parties in Northern Ireland, to get the Assembly and the Executive up and running again as quickly as possible.
Chris Heaton-Harris
I like to feel that I have considerable influence in Government, but I am not sure that is completely correct. However, I will use the influence I have to do the right thing by all those who work for the PSNI. All sorts of issues have come up over the past 25 years and since policing was devolved, but policing in Northern Ireland certainly seems to look and feel better, and it is beginning to get good outcomes for those who are being policed. I can only praise the officers and say that I will do everything in their support.
Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP)
I join the Secretary of State in offering my thanks to Simon Byrne for his service. I believe his decision today, however, is the right one. This represented a shocking breach of confidentiality not just in relation to people’s personal data, but a shocking breach in the confidence that PSNI officers and staff can have in the organisation. I pay tribute to the dedicated PSNI officers and staff who daily protect and serve the people of Northern Ireland.
The PSNI, as has been alluded to, is already suffering a crisis of funding and therefore resourcing. The officer complement is lower than it has been in the police service serving Northern Ireland than at any point since 1979. The UK Government pay £30 million a year in additional funding to meet the security challenge, but that funding was inadequate even before the breach and is surely even more inadequate now. Will the Secretary of State be a little clearer on exactly how he will give funding guarantees to the PSNI going forward, because I do not believe this is something where the buck can be passed entirely to those who are currently charged with administering devolved budgets?