East Coast Main Line Franchise

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 20th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sheila Gilmore]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. We did say that the hon. Lady would speak for 10 to 15 minutes, but she has now been going for 19, and it looks like she still has a ream of paper to get through. I feel sure that she will be coming to the end shortly.

[Sheila Gilmore]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I would certainly argue for keeping East Coast in public ownership. The point I am trying to make is that even in terms of the Government’s justification for what they are doing and their timetable, it does not make financial sense. Therefore, it will not make financial sense for the effectiveness of this country’s railways, or indeed for our financial position. That is an important point. It raises the question of why the east coast main line is being refranchised at this point.

If the Government’s decision had been based purely on a view that East Coast had been performing badly in the public sector, which I know has been said—I hope I have show that it is not the case—it might have been an imperative for turning East Coast around, but that is not the point. I think that we have to ask, yet again, why this is happening. Why should we take a service that is performing well and put it out to franchise, with all the disruption that will cause, and potentially for no gain?

I hope that the Minister will address some of the key points that I have already raised but that were not fully addressed the last time we debated it—punctuality, premium payment and the success of East Coast—because I am sure that he would not want to be accused of putting ideology ahead of the interests of passengers and taxpayers.

Railways

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 25th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Burns]

I will deal with it now. HS2 is not directly related. It is a project drawn up by the coalition Government—to be fair, building on the work of Lord Adonis when Labour was in power. We support the project because we believe it is in the national interest, which is why it is going ahead. UKIP has sought to muddy the water on a number of issues with regard to HS2 and the European Union. As I was saying at Transport questions, before I was politely interrupted, that is fascinating, because if one were to travel around Buckinghamshire, and possibly Warwickshire, Staffordshire and a few other points north, one would see opposition to that magnificent project from the party my hon. Friend mentioned. He might then be confused if he read UKIP’s 2010 general election manifesto, which calls for three—not one, but three—high-speed railway systems in this country. But I now return—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. May I help the Minister a little more? He is right to suggest to the Chair that he does not want a rerun of Transport questions. I totally agree and we are not going to do that, are we?

[Mr Burns]

Of course not, Mr Deputy Speaker.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. My word, there are more speakers than expected. I am going to have to introduce a limit of five minutes and it may even have to go down. The opening speech lasted 33 minutes, so that has affected the debate a little. I call Iain Stewart.

Marine Navigation (No. 2) Bill

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Friday 30th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)]

I beg to move amendment 8, page 3, line 27, leave out clause 5.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 9, page 3, line 34, in clause 5, at end insert—

‘for the purpose of promoting safety of navigation’.

Amendment 11, page 4, line 19, at end insert—

‘(8) An order designating a harbour authority shall not be made unless the Welsh Ministers, the Secretary of State or the Scottish Ministers, as the case may be, are satisfied that the harbour authority has in place appropriate procedures for resolving any disputes that may arise in relation to a proposed harbour direction.’.

Amendment 7, page 4, line 27, at end insert—

‘(3A) Section 236(3) to (8) and section 238 of the Local Government Act 1972 apply to all harbour directions made by a designated harbour authority under section 40A and those provisions so applied have effect subject to the modification that for references to byelaws there are substituted references to harbour directions and for references to a local authority there are substituted references to a designated harbour authority.

(3B) The confirming authority for the purposes of section 236 in its application to harbour directions made under section 40A shall be the Secretary of State.’.

Government amendment 17, page 9, line 12, at end insert—

‘() the apprehension of offenders within the port constable’s police area in respect of offences committed outside that area and the transport of them to police stations outside that area;’.

Government amendment 18, page 11, line 8, leave out ‘subsection’ and insert ‘subsections (1A) and’.

Government amendment 19, page 11, line 8, at end insert—

‘(1A) Sections 5 and 6 come into force in relation to fishery harbours in Wales on such day or days as the Welsh Ministers may by order made by statutory instrument appoint.’.

[Sir Peter Bottomley]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray) on promoting the Bill and recognise that there is growing interest in it. The Government have managed to accommodate the substantial points made on pilotage. I congratulate the shadow Minister, to whom the Bill is familiar, and my hon. Friend the Minister on that achievement.

I have a number of proposals, one of which is that the simplest thing to do with clause 5 is remove it, which amendment 8 would do. I ought to explain to the House that I spoke briefly in Committee—I cleared my throat—for 15 minutes. We now have 75 minutes for the Bill to make progress. Were we to have, say, two Divisions, we would have about 45 minutes. Hon. Members need to recognise that there are time limitations.

Much in the Bill is of advantage, but clause 5, which amends the Harbours Act 1964, provides that each national authority can designate harbour authorities, which means we can anticipate a larger number of harbour authorities, which can give general harbour directions to ships within or entering or leaving their harbours. That currently requires a byelaw, which requires the approval of the Department. If a Minister is not prepared to approve the byelaw, it does not happen. I believe I am right that the Minister would be advised on whether the byelaw proposed is right and rational, and on whether the authority has been rational in terms of the results of the consultation—the requirement for a consultation will remain if a harbour is designated.

It has been said that, if the Government’s proposals go through, an interested group or person can object to the decision through judicial review, but that is too big a weapon for too many people. In any case, judicial review decides whether the way in which the harbour authority went about its decision was rational. If it goes about the decision unfairly, it can be stopped, but if it does it wrongly, it cannot. The decision would then be made. In the years that my wife and I were Ministers, we never had a judicial review application against us upheld. That means not that all our decisions were right, but that how we reached them was right. That illustrates the distinction.

Proposed new section 40A of the 1964 Act deals with the designation of harbour authorities. Proposed section 40B, which governs the procedure applicable to harbour direction, states that a harbour authority is required to consult users and publicise a harbour direction before and after it is given.

Proposed new section 40C, on enforcement, creates an offence. The Royal Yachting Association, of which I have been a member for some time, has raised issues with this measure. Those with longer memories will recall that, in 2008 and later, when a Bill of this nature was in the House of Lords, there was no equivalent of clause 5, because there were problems with such a proposal.

I should tell my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall and the Minister that there will be significant interest in the measure in the House of Lords, to which one anticipates the Bill going after today. I predict that the Bill will be amended if the provisions are not satisfactory—I am not threatening, but anticipating. Private Member’s Bill procedures mean that a Bill amended in the House of Lords will not be at the top of the list of priorities when it returns to the Commons, so getting the Bill right between now and when the House of Lords considers it matters.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Peter Bottomley]

I am sure that what the Minister said will be helpful. The question of whether it is sufficiently helpful will be a second test, but I am grateful to my hon. Friend and I will take that into account.

Mr Deputy Speaker, the selection of amendments to other clauses in the same debate is, if I may say so, generous to the promoter of the Bill, because it allows for fewer debates than would otherwise happen. I do not make any criticism—I just note that.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I am sure there is no criticism of the Chair.

[Sir Peter Bottomley]

I do not propose to speak to the amendments on the other clauses, as a way of bowing with respect to my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall.

Amendment 9 would insert, on page 3, line 34, the words:

“for the purpose of promoting safety of navigation”.

That is an essential point. My hon. Friend the Minister says that that is not necessary, although when I was having a discussion with my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall I saw references to lobster pots and fishing lines and wondered whether the navigation point had been slightly lost, but that was a letter to her rather than a letter from her, so perhaps we can pass on from that.

The alternative or additional way is to look at amendment 11, which, at the end of line 19, would insert the words:

“(8) An order designating a harbour authority shall not be made unless the Welsh Ministers, the Secretary of State or the Scottish Ministers, as the case may be, are satisfied that the harbour authority has in place appropriate procedures for resolving any disputes that may arise in relation to a proposed harbour direction.”

My hon. Friend the Minister has made a comment on that, as far as he is able to, and we cannot expect him to speak for Welsh or Scottish Ministers, but I think they would be irrational if they did not have the same intention in mind.

Finally, amendment 7 would insert proposed new subsection (3A):

“Section 236(3) to (8) and section 238 of the Local Government Act 1972 apply to all harbour directions made by a designated harbour authority under section 40A and those provisions so applied have effect subject to the modification that for references to byelaws there are substituted references to harbour directions and for references to a local authority there are substituted references to a designated harbour authority.”

It would also insert proposed new subsection (3B):

“The confirming authority for the purposes of section 236 in its application to harbour directions made under section 40A shall be the Secretary of State.”

The point is this: clause 5 will potentially give, not just to existing designated harbour authorities, but to many, many others, the power of creating criminal offences.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con)]

I did not plan to speak today, and I certainly do not want to take up much time, because I want the Bill to make progress. However, I feel that I must make a few brief points.

I am a lifelong sailor, and—although I have not had a distinguished Royal Navy career like my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Richard Ottaway), whom I have the privilege of succeeding in the debate—I do represent a port: the port of Falmouth, which has many of the features described by my hon. Friend. It is a very busy port, with conflicting usages of the harbour authority area. I firmly believe that the prevention of injury and the safety of everyone who uses the port—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. The hon. Lady has been a Member for a long time now and, as important as I think Mr Ottaway is, she should address the Chair.

HGV Road User Levy Bill (Ways and Means)

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Not for long.

[Mr Newmark]

We have at least another 20 minutes, Mr Deputy Speaker.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman has used his intervention up, but I will let him have another go. [Laughter.]

[Mr Newmark]

Hon. Members have articulated the views of the road haulage industry in their respective constituencies. Will the Minister spend a couple of minutes going into a little more detail on the consultation he had with the industry and on its input, and explain why the Bill is the silver bullet that will make the road haulage industry in the UK happy?

Rail Fares

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Wednesday 5th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Norman Baker]

It is our intention, once the savings coming through from Network Rail are realised, to end the era of above-inflation rail fare increases introduced by the previous Government. There can be no doubt about our intention to do that.

Let me deal with the issue of ticket offices raised by Opposition Members, including the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), for whom I have much respect when it comes to railway matters, and the hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood), the shadow Minister. It is worth pointing out that in the last five years of the previous Government, Ministers approved cuts in opening hours at approximately 300 stations. The number since the coalition Government came to power is soon to be 34, so there were far more cuts to ticket office hours under the last Government than there have been under this Government. In fact, the shadow Secretary of State might want to know that ticketing hours have actually increased at a number of stations since this Government came to power. We do not hear much from the Opposition about that either.

I do not want to make my speech simply a matter of rebutting the Opposition’s motion. It is important to get rail fares down as soon as possible and this Government take that very seriously indeed. We are committed to reducing and abolishing above-inflation rises as soon as we can. To answer the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood (Mr Spencer), I think both sides of the coalition are committed to buttercups, rainbows and daffodils. Both of us want to end the era of above-inflation increases as soon as we practically can, and the sooner we can make the savings that the Opposition are so reluctant to see—and which, by the way, they have no plan to deliver—we can end that above-inflation record, which I am sorry to say the Labour party introduced when it was in power.

Taxpayers and indeed passengers have been paying over the odds for the railway. The fiscal position demands that the high level of public subsidy for rail in recent years be reduced. As a Government, we have a duty, which we take seriously, to keep rail travel affordable for as many people as possible and to minimise the level of taxpayer support for rail by bringing forward sensible and workable efficiencies. Achieving that will depend on securing the efficiency savings that we have outlined in our rail Command Paper. That is why it is so important that the whole industry works together to a shared agenda to deliver for both passengers and taxpayers.

Opposition Members have referred to the coalition agreement. We stand by the words in the agreement about getting a fair deal for passengers, and we are determined to do so. The present Secretary of State has already indicated, in his first contribution in the House in that role, his concern about rail fares, and his predecessor, the right hon. Member for Putney (Justine Greening), did likewise. Yes, there was pressure last year to ensure that we did not have RPI plus 3%. That pressure was successful and we have committed—once savings are found and the improvement in the wider economic situation permits—to reducing and then abolishing above-inflation rises in average regulated fares.

The hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown—[Interruption.] I beg your pardon, Mr Deputy Speaker: the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas)—I should know that, shouldn’t I?—referred to fares. I do not pretend that some fares are not excessive; some of them definitely discourage people from travelling by train. That is part of the reason why we are having the fares and ticketing review. She referred to trains being overcrowded, but to be fair and put the matter in context, she needs to recognise that one of the reasons why the trains from Brighton are overcrowded—I know them very well—is that Southern has introduced a large number of cheap fares, which local people are taking advantage of. There are now people standing off-peak all the way from Lewes or Brighton to London because fares have been reduced to an attractive level. In fact, we have a selection of fares. There is an issue about peak fares—that is part of the fares and ticketing review—but many off-peak fares are very cheap indeed.

I can assure the hon. Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern) that split ticketing will be covered in the fares and ticketing review. As for East Coast, which is currently run from the Department for Transport, as it were, through an arm’s length body, action has been taken on that point.

My hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) was right to talk about investment for the future, which I have already mentioned. The hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington referred to complexity; that will be dealt with in the fares and ticketing review. My hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Gordon Henderson) talked about the inheritance in Kent. I recognise that there are particular issues in Kent that should be looked at, and I am happy for that to be part of the work of the Department for Transport. We want to see an end to above-inflation fare rises as soon as possible, and I want to assure the House that we in the Department are taking steps to achieve just that.

Question put.

The House proceeded to a Division.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the No Lobby.

Rail Investment

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Monday 16th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order.

[Justine Greening]

The hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Mr Donohoe) will know that transport in Scotland is a devolved matter. He will also know that in the spending review we have committed £18 billion for the railway network, an outstanding amount of investment that can make a huge difference. Of course, today’s announcement adds further to that pipeline. I think that the certainty it will give the industry about the investment coming down the track will really help to ensure that we get the most out of the improvement not only for passengers and freight, but for jobs and growth, particularly in the railway industry.

[Greg Mulholland]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. That is probably the closest I will get to the Dispatch Box—[Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”]—in this Parliament. In the last Parliament Labour’s contribution to tackling congestion in Leeds was cancelling the Leeds supertram and continuing to insist on a no-growth franchise for Northern Rail. Susie Cawood, from the Leeds, York and North Yorkshire chamber of commerce has said:

“The chamber welcomes government investment in the rail network…Continued investment is essential to ensure we remain competitive and continue to attract inward investment and grow our existing businesses—

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. The hon. Gentleman should not take advantage of a situation. Many Members want to get in and this has to finish at five past 5. In fairness, we all have to get in.

[Justine Greening]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that this investment will make a big difference to Leeds. It is not just on the back of the north trans-Pennine express electrification. He will also know that the £240 million investment in the east coast main line will also improve services for his constituents. Of course, he will be aware that in the longer term we are investing in High Speed 2, which will have a stop in Leeds.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

I find myself in the strange position of congratulating the Government on their statement. It goes part of the way to making up for the historical underfunding of the Welsh railways. The north Wales coast line and the line west of Swansea are vital links between the mainland and Ireland, which is a major trading partner of the Welsh economy and the wider UK economy. What discussions are happening between the Department, the Welsh Government and European institutions about using Wales’s share of HS2—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order.

[Justine Greening]

I understand the point that the hon. Gentleman is making. It is a relevant question. The Welsh Government have not raised that issue with me directly, but it is something that I am interested in considering. Perhaps he will forgive me if I reflect and get back to him as my thinking on HS2 develops.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. We have only five more minutes—let us try to get through as many questions as possible.

[Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend and all the Ministers and Parliamentary Private Secretaries who have worked hard with all the local MPs to make sure that this new electric spine is achieved. The point is we have a spine, and we waited 13 years for someone else to find one.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Unfortunately, I am going to have to cut off debate on the statement now.

Cost of Living

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Wednesday 16th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

One thing that the House desperately needs to do is give a feeling of hope to young people, who are being particularly badly hit at the moment. The hon. Gentleman mentions the unemployment figures. In Bridgend, I had five youngsters between the ages of 18 and 24 claiming jobseeker’s allowance in April 2011, and in April 2012 I had 70. That is an increase of 1,300%. That is not a message of hope, and the House has to do something about it. There was nothing in the Queen’s Speech about—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. We must have shorter interventions. I know that it was important to the hon. Lady to get that point on the record, and she has done so now.

[Mr Robin Walker]

The hon. Lady is of course right to be concerned about youth unemployment. In my constituency it is lower than when we took over from the Labour Government, but there is clearly more to be done. The Government are already investing in apprenticeships and many other schemes to help people into work, and we must continue to do more, but I do not believe that that required legislation to be announced in the Queen’s Speech.

Fixing the deficit and getting our country to live within its means is firmly at the centre of the coalition’s programme for government, and there it must remain. The cost of living for millions of families and for businesses that employ young people would increase appallingly if the Government were to lose control of those central aims and allow interest rates to spiral out of control. It is our responsibility to all our constituents to ensure that that does not happen, and good government and efficient management, not legislation, will deliver what we need.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) suggested, we need not more laws and regulation but less. However, there are some important measures that require legislation, including supporting enterprise and encouraging small businesses. As a former entrepreneur, I am glad that the Queen’s Speech included an enterprise and regulatory reform Bill, which will repeal many unnecessary requirements on business and promote early resolution of employment disputes.

Earlier this week, I was pleased to attend the launch of the all-party small business group’s recent report on breaking down the barriers to entrepreneurship, and to hear from local entrepreneurs such as Neil Westwood of Magic Whiteboard. The more the Government can do to implement the all-party group’s proposals the better.

Safeguarding our banks and ensuring that they continue to lend is another vital matter for economic growth, and I am pleased that the Government will bring forward measures to ring-fence commercial banking and encourage lending. I also welcome the fact that they are already beginning to support alternative lending sources, including community development financial institutions such as Impetus, which is doing good work in Worcestershire, and innovative new private sector solutions such as ThinCats.

Of course issues beyond our control affect the economy, and at a time of crisis in Europe, when the eurozone appears to be teetering on the brink, it would be wrong to omit a mention of the broader economic crisis that persists and is driving up the cost of living for everyone. I am as disappointed as anyone that the UK’s growth figures have not been stronger, and as determined as anyone that the cost of the European project should not become an unfair burden on our country. I am glad we have a Prime Minister who is prepared to stand up in Europe and say no when he needs to, and I am confident that he and our Foreign Secretary will continue to hold the line that the UK cannot be asked to pay for the failings of a currency we rightly stayed out of. Britain must continue to forge its own path through this crisis, working with our friends and allies all over the world, not just in Europe, to ensure that we have the best possible opportunities for growth and to protect our economic stability. We should continue to refuse to allow the costs of the EU to increase and guard our own interests in foreign policy and international trade. I believe the time will come when we have to renegotiate our relationship with the EU. Although that is not referred to in the Gracious Speech, it is essential the Government stand ready on that vital matter.

Overall, I welcome the Queen’s Speech. I welcome the fact that, in the year when we celebrate a glorious 60-year reign, we have a Government who are firmly focused on the future. I want to see a thousand flowers flourish in small business and I am excited by the opportunities that will be created in this programme of legislation, whether for companies engaged in helping us to manage energy and resources better, for small enterprises, or for food producers, who will benefit from the new groceries code adjudicator. The economy is at the heart of the Government’s programme, and growing it will be key to allowing Government and people to deal with the cost of living in the years to come.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. We have quite a lot of people to get in and speeches are getting rather long, so I have to put a 12-minute time limit on speeches.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

Darlington borough council has had £100,000 withdrawn from its bus operating grant and has made some very difficult decisions on adult social care. It has a responsible reserves policy. It is a sensible council, which shares a lot of its back office functions with neighbouring authorities. It is a low taxing council; we have the lowest council tax in the north-east. It is a well run council and there is not a lot of fat. These decisions are being taken—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. There must be a question in there somewhere.

[Mrs Chapman]

There is a question, Mr Deputy Speaker, which is that—

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. I think the hon. Lady should give up now.

[Phil Wilson]

I thank my hon. Friend for clearing up some of the issues. There certainly are choices, but if grants and subsidies are being cut, the difficult decisions that have to be made are even harder. It is not just that the council has to take those difficult decisions, but that particular things have been thrust upon it.

The whole situation undermines the big society. There is a lot of hot air and a lot of big words, but what is actually happening is that people are suffering at the grass roots.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. We still have a lot of speakers and I am constantly looking at the time, so I shall have to introduce a 10-minute limit.

Civil Aviation Bill

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Wednesday 25th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 11, page 49, line 31, clause 80, at end insert—

‘(2A) The CAA may also provide advice and assistance to such persons in connection with security checks performed on users of civil air services who have religious clothing requirements in order that their dignity be maintained without compromising the rigour of those security checks.’.

Amendment 13, page 51, line 10, clause 82, at end insert—

‘(3A) Before making a scheme under this section the Secretary of State must review the impact of such transfers on the security functions of the CAA.’.

Government amendments 17 and 18.

[John Woodcock]

I am pleased to have the opportunity to raise a number of issues relating to aviation security. This is an immensely important subject, and one on which the Bill before us has something to say, but we believe that additional safeguards are strongly in the public interest. There are questions that my hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State raised on Second Reading, and that I and other Labour Members raised in Committee, to which we have not yet had satisfactory answers. We believe that this proposal provides an opportunity for increased safeguards and scrutiny, and that is why we seek to amend the Bill today.

The UK has a relatively strong record on aviation security. The current arrangements have evolved to meet the threats that have faced the UK from Lockerbie onwards, through the various plots that have emerged since the 9/11 terrorist attacks. As terrorists have increased the sophistication of their efforts to cause death, destruction and disruption, so the UK aviation security system has, generally, shown an ability to adapt and stay one step ahead.

The Bill proposes a major change in the security regime, shifting responsibility for overseeing security arrangements from the Department for Transport to the Civil Aviation Authority. A number of issues flow from that. The first involves staffing. Although the move has broadly been welcomed by the industry, we raised concerns in Committee regarding the transfer of specialist security staff from the Department for Transport to the CAA. The Minister has not yet fully addressed those concerns, but I hope that she will do so shortly. Under the terms of the Bill, 85 members of staff will be transferred from the Department for Transport to the CAA. There is concern that some will choose not to transfer, and will instead leave public service. That could represent a serious loss of expertise in an area where finding suitable replacements could be difficult. To ensure the security of our airports and planes, we need to retain that experience.

On Second Reading, the shadow Secretary of State asked the Government to consider seconding at least some staff, rather than transferring them. The Transport Committee has also made that recommendation. In Committee, the Minister told us that it was possible that some staff would be seconded. Our amendment 13 would require the Secretary of State to assess the impact of staff transfers before she gave the go-ahead to move responsibilities to the CAA. I hope that the Minister will take this opportunity to inform the House of the Government’s current position on secondments, and to tell us whether they have got beyond the stage of simply hoping that staff will not walk away.

We have also tabled new clause 3, because we again want to give the Government the opportunity, which they passed up in Committee, to subject to parliamentary scrutiny their proposed shift to an outcome-focused, risk-based approach to aviation security. Without our new clause, the move to risk-based security would not be mentioned in the Bill at all. We should be clear about what the reform will entail. Under the Government’s proposed new security regime, rather than directing specific measures that airports must undertake in order to maintain security, Ministers will instead specify a number of key risks that need to be mitigated. It will then be for the airports themselves to undertake their own risk assessment. They will be tasked with analysing their local vulnerabilities, and with designing and implementing appropriate mitigating measures. I know that the Minister will agree that this represents a major change to the UK’s aviation security regime.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

The hon. Gentleman is going on a bit.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Mr Heaton-Harris, you should know much better, as you have many years of experience in Europe in addition to your time as a Member of this House. I am sure the point of order is coming to an end, and when it does I shall give a quick ruling.

[Karl Turner]

I am always very glad to welcome the Deputy Prime Minister to Hull East. Indeed, if he is visiting in order to campaign, I am sure he will do very well for the Labour party. What is the convention of this House, however?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Spellar]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I have huge regard for your qualities, and the abilities you bring to your office. I was therefore astonished at the recent intervention by the hon. Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris), seeming to imply that you would not know whether a Member was in order. I hope the hon. Gentleman realises that, and that in future he will treat your office, Mr Deputy Speaker—and, indeed, yourself—with greater respect.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I am sure we can now make good progress.

[Mrs Ellman]

Security was one area on which the Select Committee expressed concerns and raised questions. Some of those concerns are touched upon in some of the amendments. The change in security arrangements—responsibility in part moving from the Department to the CAA—is linked to a change to an outcome-focused, risk-assessment regime, but that basic change of policy has not been fully debated. The Committee did not address the subject in depth; instead, we looked at certain specific issues, which are in the Bill.

The shift in responsibility from the Department to the CAA will result in increased costs to the industry. While industry generally supports the changes in the Bill, it is concerned about costs. It has been stated that the cost will be £5 million a year, but I understand that, in fact, the figure could be a great deal higher.

Another issue is how the division of responsibilities will operate in practice. Under the proposed changes, the Secretary of State is to have responsibility for policy and the CAA is to have responsibility for operational matters, but it is unclear how that division will be made and how that would operate, particularly in emergency situations when swift decisions may be required.

That issue is linked to the concern we expressed about staffing, and the possibility of staff in the Department who have expertise in this area not moving to the CAA and therefore not being available to deploy their expertise where and when it is most needed. We have not received any clear answers on that. We suggested there might be secondments. I understand that the Department is not very supportive of that idea, and does not accept that it may solve the problem. We remain concerned about this possible loss of expertise.

I understand that the CAA will be undertaking its new responsibilities by 2014. That is not a long time in the future. It is important that the issues I have raised are addressed. There is also the question of whether the move to an outcome-focused, risk-assessment approach will, in fact, maintain—or, indeed, increase—vital levels of security.

Transport and the Economy

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Tuesday 28th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I understand that this debate is important, but if we want to get everybody in, we will unfortunately have to drop the time limit to six minutes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Ashworth]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. Before the hon. Gentleman answers, let me remind hon. Members that the idea behind imposing a time limit is to get everybody in. He is well placed, but every time there is an intervention, that adds another minute, which means that somebody else will drop off the bottom.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Leech]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. It is fair to say that the Government have prioritised some schemes in London and the south-east—the Crossrail project, for instance, which has received an enormous amount of money. Other parts of the country have certainly received significantly less funding over a long period.

There are some encouraging signs, however. In Manchester, rail capacity and journey times will benefit greatly from the additional electrification work, including that of the TransPennine Express, and the funding for the Ordsall chord. Congestion will be eased with the completion of the airport link road—a scheme for which my hon. Friends the Members for Cheadle (Mark Hunter) and for Hazel Grove (Andrew Stunell) have been campaigning for many years. Metrolink extensions have also been given the green light and are under construction, including within my constituency.

From a Manchester perspective, two projects hold the key to whether the Government’s commitment to rebalancing the economy will be followed through to its conclusion. The first is high-speed rail, and the second and more urgent is the funding for the northern hub, which I am sure the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Norman Baker), will be sick of me raising with him on so many occasions.

The debate about high-speed rail will drag on, with supporters and opponents making arguments and counter-arguments about whether the real economic benefits are predominantly for London and the south-east. However, what cannot be disputed is the fact that the north will see the greatest possible level of benefit only once high-speed rail reaches Manchester and Leeds. I welcome the Government’s commitment to the next phase of the high-speed rail network, but I want to know what the Government are doing about bringing forward the timetable, so that we do not have to wait another 20 years before we reap the full benefits.

I recognise that for once the Government are looking towards our transport needs for the next 100 years rather than for the next 10 years, but we need to do more to bring forward the time scale so that the regions can benefit as soon as humanly possible.

From Manchester’s perspective, however, the real test for the Government will be whether or not funding will be forthcoming for the northern hub. With £80 million already secured for the Ordsall chord, the complete hub scheme will cost only £560 million in total—and possibly less, given that some elements of the project are already included in other committed individual schemes. We should compare this to the billions of pounds that the Government have committed for Crossrail.

In a Westminster Hall debate in January, the hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer), who is not in his place this afternoon, calculated that three months of Crossrail payments would pay for the whole of the northern hub. I am not sure how accurate the hon. Gentleman’s maths is, but it certainly puts into perspective the difference in funding levels for the two schemes. At a cost-benefit ratio of 4:1, with an estimated 20,000 to 30,000 new jobs and a £4 billion boost to the economy, the northern hub is the opportunity for the Government to show their commitment to rebalancing the economy.

I questioned the Minister of State, Department for Transport during the Select Committee inquiry, and she said that the northern hub

“must be a really strong contender for support in the next railway funding settlement control period.”

She went on to confirm the Government’s intention to try to close the prosperity gap between the regions, saying:

“One of the ways in which we could do that is by targeting our transport spending on projects which will generate growth in different regions.”

Well, I could not agree more. If the Government are serious about economic rebalancing, they need to confirm the funding for the northern hub, and not just in a piecemeal way. The Government need to come up with all the cash in control period 5.

In the short time left, I should like briefly to raise two other issues mentioned in our report. The first relates to the dependence of transport priorities on local circumstances. A one-size-fits-all or a Government-know-best approach will not work. In line with the coalition Government’s localism agenda, there needs to be more local determination of what works in each local area. National Government is not well placed to decide what is best for an individual area and what will best support economic growth. Metrolink has been a massive success in Manchester, driving economic growth and stimulating regeneration to areas such as Salford Quays and Eccles, as well as encouraging modal shift in areas such as my constituency.

The need for local decision making was reflected in the report’s conclusions—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order.

--- Later in debate ---

[Angela Smith]

That illustrates my point about the need to have clear plans for economic development in place alongside plans for transport investment.

The report is also important because it points out very clearly that there is a lack of transparency and consistency in the decision-making process at the Department for Transport. Finally, it is important because it points out that the removal of regional structures created by the last Government risks creating a vacuum in effective planning for transport infrastructure.

I want to focus particularly on the report’s recognition that the Government should produce a White Paper explaining explicitly how their plans for transport investment will be linked to their plans for the economy more generally, and in particular explaining their plans for rebalancing the UK economy. Rebalancing is important not just to the economic development of areas such as the north-west and Yorkshire but to the whole country, including London and the greater south-east.

We need transport investment to maximise the potential for a more dynamic set of relationships between economies across the country. HS2 is a case in point. According to The Northern Way, its potential impact of £13 billion would deliver at least £3 billion of economic impact to the north. The point is, however, that its economic impact will affect the whole country, and therefore potentially benefits everyone.

What do we need if we are to rebalance the economy in transport terms? I believe that we need three things. First, we need more transparency and greater consistency in decision making, so that we can hold the Government to account in relation to their stated aim of rebalancing the economy. Secondly, we need political bravery: we need to use investment to maximise economic development in areas such as the north of England, and to remove barriers to growth in those areas. Thirdly, we urgently need to know more about how the Government will develop sub-regional, regional and even cross-regional structures enabling them to produce sound, well-thought-out strategies for the delivery of transport infrastructure.

The removal of the regional development agencies and, by definition, The Northern Way group of RDAs, has left a vacuum in regional planning, especially—as the report points out—in the context of their role in supporting regional economies. Moreover, the local enterprise partnerships have not been thought through. How will these new structures working at sub-regional and city-regional level work structurally across LEP boundaries to deliver what our regions need?

The north of England is a perfect example. As a result of The Northern Way and its superb work in developing arguments and strategies relating to transport, the case for the northern hub has been clearly made and accepted even by the coalition Government. The northern hub is needed, of course, to tackle congestion on the northern rail network, thereby helping to remove barriers to economic growth; but it is also needed in the context of the decision to go ahead with HS2. It is important that we deliver both projects in order not just to reduce congestion on the network but, as I mentioned earlier, to maximise the potential benefit of HS2.

If we are to maximise the potential of HS2 to make the relationship between the economies of the north and London more dynamic, we must also ensure that those agglomeration benefits are spread across the north. If that is to happen, the Government must recognise the importance of transport infrastructure in supporting economic development plans. In particular, they must recognise our great northern cities as hubs for economic development. They must recognise the importance of greater connectivity—not only with London, on a north-south axis, but on an east-west axis, between the northern urban centres, and with international gateways not just at Heathrow and Gatwick but at the mouth of the Humber and Mersey rivers.

We need regional planning. As the report says, without it there will be a risk that choices will be made on a basis that discriminates against weaker economies. There is already an example of that in the form of the Government’s decision to electrify the Leeds-to-Manchester cross-Pennine route, which discriminates against what I call the third point of the golden triangle of the north: the city of Sheffield.

We need the Govt to recognise the broader context of an economic policy that involves stimulation of the economy and the role that transport could play in it. Long-term infrastructure projects should be brought forward, as outlined in Labour's alternative plan for jobs and growth, but instead we are seeing significant cuts in investment, such as the £759 million cut on top of the £528 million efficiency savings supported by Labour.

We also need the Government to recognise the spending disparity between the north and the south. The Passenger Transport Executive Group has produced some interesting figures. In 2010-11, transport spending per head was £774 in London and £276 in Yorkshire and the Humber. The source of those figures is the most recent version of a public expenditure spending analysis from Her Majesty’s Treasury. I ask the Minister to respond to them, and to demonstrate by way of a full written explanation—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I call Stuart Andrew.

Civil Aviation Bill

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con)]

I agree about the need to reform regulation. Does my hon. Friend agree that we also need a proportionate approach? Newquay airport is in a neighbouring constituency to mine, and it serves all of west Cornwall. It is vital for connecting Cornwall with the rest of the UK and beyond for business and other purposes. We must bear in mind the importance of such small and remote airports that may not—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Members must make brief interventions, not speeches. I have been very lenient. I also ask Members to face the Chair when intervening.

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

I agree with my hon. Friend. I used Newquay airport once, and it is small but perfectly formed. The small airports around our country serve as important regional hubs. Because they serve the regions so well, they become very important to the local business community, such as in respect of inward investment. My hon. Friend is right to stress the need for a proportionate approach.

The environmental impact of aviation gets the juices of the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) flowing; indeed, the bulk of his speech was about that subject. Measures to be taken to mitigate adverse effects are relatively well addressed in this Bill, and I am sure they will be fleshed out in Committee.

The Transport Committee raised a handful of concerns during its pre-legislative scrutiny of the Bill. It agreed with just about every Member in the Chamber that the UK needs a healthy, competitive and sustainable aviation industry that includes the very important regional airports, as we have heard, and air services. There are some questions, however, that have yet to be completely answered about the transfer of safety and security to the CAA. There are concerns that the Government are proposing to transfer that important area without proper planning and consultation just to reduce costs. I do not believe for one second that that is the case, but it would be very useful if the Minister outlined exactly what consultation and planning went into the decision. Indeed, there might be some reason to return to these matters in Committee. It also remains unclear how far the Department for Transport will go towards a more efficient outcome-based approach to such regulation. This is an important area of regulation, as the security and safety of aviation is possibly the most emotive part of security and safety.

The Bill also proposes to permit the Secretary of State to change the CAA’s remit through secondary legislation, which, in itself, creates a certain amount of uncertainty. One never knows what will come around the corner next. The Select Committee also found that the division of responsibilities between the Government and the CAA was slightly unclear. I would like to think that the Government will ensure that all uncertainties in that area are completely cleared up as we go through Committee.

The main themes of the Bill are very important: growth and competition, consumer benefits, better regulation, the “user pays” principle and the need to reduce the role of central Government. Very few people could argue with those main themes. Indeed, under the “user pays” principle, the savings for the taxpayer as regards aviation security should be about £4 million a year. It is important, obviously, that we get this exactly right.

I broadly support the Bill—and the industry supports many of its measures—but it is important to secure buy-in for all the measures and ensure that they are all properly implemented. It is also important to listen to the industry when making the laws that relate directly to it. When we give power to its regulator in such a way, it is vital that there is, as I said, complete buy-in. Indeed, I know a number of Members received numerous pieces of correspondence from different airlines. The latest to hit my inbox was from British Airways—not that I hope that by mentioning it I will get the black card for the invitation-only lounge, although I know that the other Deputy Speaker was very keen to receive that—[Interruption.] And, of course, he would have declared it, in any event. I mention that company because it is vital that the views of the big players in the industry are taken into account. I do not think I will ever be called to make another speech, so I am going to enjoy the next two minutes and fifty five seconds.

Too often, laws have been made and those directly affected by them have not had their views taken into account. Who is directly affected in this case? It is airlines and, most importantly, the consumers. That is why I welcome the emphasis.

I am also wary about the cost of regulation. Using the “polluter pays” principle, we are passing a huge amount of cost away from the taxpayer, which is a very good thing, to the people who use the businesses.

I welcome the theme that runs through the Bill of reducing Government intervention in the regulation of industry. I listened with great interest to the hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling), who was greatly concerned about the competitiveness of airports and passing down the costs. Past events show why it is important for the CAA to be able to respond, which is not something that many Members have been able to talk about because the Bill is so important and so big. The industry and the regulator must be able to respond in real time to emerging issues, such as the snow of last year and the ash cloud that we all remember from when we were campaigning in the 2010 general election. That is when I realised that the constituency I hoped to represent was relatively prosperous—when I went to villages in its northern part and found the people had all been stranded abroad because of the ash cloud. I am very pleased that the Bill emphasises the need to give the CAA the chance to respond quickly to the kind of awkward situation that we in the United Kingdom have not always been able to respond to properly before.

I conclude by broadly welcoming the Bill. I hope that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price) said, when we talk about transparency we will have the consumer fully in our minds, because we certainly see no transparency in the fares that the aviation industry sticks out there when we try to find a flight at the advertised fare without any extra costs. There should probably be a call at some point for proper transparency to mean that the fare advertised should be the full, final fare and not much else.